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Saturday, December 31, 2011

North Dakota drops game, nickname

Kansas guards Travis Releford, front, and Elijah Johnson hound North Dakota guard Jamal Webb during the first half Saturday, Dec. 31, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas guards Travis Releford, front, and Elijah Johnson hound North Dakota guard Jamal Webb during the first half Saturday, Dec. 31, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

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Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 84-58 victory over North Dakota on Dec. 31, 2011.

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Kansas head men's basketball coach Bill Self addressed the media after defeating North Dakota, 84-58, on Saturday, Dec. 31, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Saturday was a historic day for the University of North Dakota men's basketball team, but not just because UND played its second game in Allen Fieldhouse or made its first appearance on an ESPN network.

The Fighting Sioux's 84-58 loss to No. 17 Kansas University marked the final time the school would compete with its nickname intact.

Beginning Sunday, all of UND's athletic teams simply will be known as the University of North Dakota. No mascot. No nickname. And, really, only part of its 81-year identity.

"It was special to us," said UND coach Brian Jones of his team's final competition as the Fighting Sioux. "I talked about going out and representing not only our program, but representing our former athletes and alums who have a lot of passion for this. Understand that there has been a lot of tradition behind that. We just wanted to go out and represent our community and our university in a proud way. The score was big, but we really played hard. We played together and we played within ourselves, which we really wanted to do."

UND's mascot — originally the Sioux in 1930 and changed to Fighting Sioux during the 1960s — has come into question because of its tie to the various Native American tribes of the Sioux nation. For years, athletic teams at all levels have been involved in legal battles regarding the use of Native American mascots and nicknames, with many going as far as to change them to end the squabbling.

Despite documented support from several Sioux leaders, that's what UND is doing here in an effort to appease the NCAA, which officially has dubbed the nickname — and others like it — offensive.

According to reports, continued use of the moniker would expose the Grand Forks, N.D.., university to NCAA penalties, including a ban on playing host to postseason competition and complications in its effort to join the Big Sky Conference in 2012.

Lawmakers in North Dakota have fought for UND to keep its Fighting Sioux name, even going as far as to propose an amendment to the North Dakota state constitution that specifically addresses UND's ability to use the name. But the NCAA has persisted, so the school has agreed to drop it, effective Sunday.

"It's been getting brought up for a while now," junior forward Jordan Allard said. "We have a great community up there that has been behind that name for a while. But if it causes issues with anybody that will affect our program, we'll be all right without it."

UND guard Aaron Anderson shared Allard's point of view, but admitted that moving forward without a name would be weird.

"It'll be different," Anderson said. "But you put the school first. I've heard a lot of people want us to keep the name, but we really have no control over it."

For much of Saturday's loss to Kansas, the Fighting Sioux embodied their soon-to-be old nickname. They scrapped and made KU work hard for everything in the first half.

"This opportunity, for us, was a big one," Jones said. "And I was really proud of our effort and our resiliency against a team (like) that. They're talented in many ways."

In the second half, KU took over, led by a monster game from junior forward Thomas Robinson, who finished with career-highs of 30 points and 21 rebounds.

"Tape and DVDs do that young man no justice with the size of his body and strength," Jones said. "You just have to keep mixing up your coverages on him. But he's a tough matchup because he can handle it, he scores in the open floor, he goes to the backboard and he's so patient."

North Dakota's next game — and its first as a team without a nickname — comes Wednesday against Mayville State. Kansas (10-3) also will play Wednesday, at home against Kansas State.

Comments

chriz 2 years, 9 months ago

Political correctness is ruining our country.

actorman 2 years, 9 months ago

You're right, chriz. Things like that are far more damaging than corporations sending jobs overseas, people getting bilked out of their life savings in phony investment schemes, unions being destroyed everywhere, and the top 1% having more wealth than the bottom 150 million. Yep, what's really ruining our country is political correctness.

chriz 2 years, 9 months ago

Cry me an effing river, Mr. VanDriesen. Do you have wifi at the occupy tents in front of the Liberty Memorial or something?

Jack Wilson 2 years, 9 months ago

actorman: How about some personal responsibility? Why do corporations have a duty to keep jobs in the United States? What requires that? It is quite humorous and a touch ironic that in the same breath you criticize companies for seeking lower costs (presumably labor and taxes), yet then you lament "unions being destroyed everywhere." Why do you think jobs go overseas? Or to the non-union workers? You can figure that out. You obviously support a system that pays for unproductive behavior, and that discourages competition. And then you whine about a company trying to escape that environment.

And what is wrong with the top 1% having more wealth than 150 million? You might check out how much in taxes those 1% pay in comparison to the 50% of our population that pay no taxes. Who do you think employs people? Who do you think invests in business growth . . that employ people? Who do you think has the money, that in turn permits institutions that hold their money, to make loans .. like for your car? The people with money are evil to you, yet they support the entire economic infrastructure with their investments and businesses. It is just absolutely comical how your line of thinking doesn't extend beyond jealously for those that have more than you. How pathetic is it that instead of trying to figure out ways to actually achieve, and improve one's self, folks of your line of thinking try to figure out ways to take and redistribute money from those that do actually achieve. The nice thing here is that you are absolutely free to enjoy living in any other country that offers a more socialistic environment that is acceptable to you.

And as for "phony investment schemes", perhaps one might take a bit of responsibility for giving their money blindly to someone to invest? Maybe. I'd be more concerned as to why in every urban area of this country there is a complete moral bankruptcy -- drive by shootings, killing, robbing, etc. But it is easier to hate people that have more than you do, than to address the real, core problems in this country. Because to address those problems would be to "offend" someone .. and we must be politically correct.

KUbsee69 2 years, 9 months ago

actorman ... chriz is absolutely correct and you obviously listen to the media propaganda too much.

Benjamin Jones 2 years, 9 months ago

Bunch of conservative sh!t-for-brains on this site.

Jack Wilson 2 years, 9 months ago

Bunch of conservative work for a living, not ask for handouts, pro-competition, anti-welfare state -- sh!t for brains .. let's get that straight.

Benjamin Jones 2 years, 9 months ago

If you were really a pro-competition sh!t-for-brains you wouldn't be supporting the rigged system we have now. Let's get that straight.

Jack Wilson 2 years, 9 months ago

speakeasy: Sounds like someone can't compete.

actorman 2 years, 9 months ago

Thanks, Speakeasy, for being one of the few voices of sanity here. Amazing how brainwashed people are. But then when virtually all of the power and money are on one side, it's actually amazing that things aren't even worse.

HighEliteMajor's ridiculous bunch of Fox News-ish jargon is a perfect example of the crap that passes for facts these days. Never mind that the tax rates for the richest bracket are the lowest they've been in over 50 years, and that CEO's now make 300 times what the average worker makes, compared to making 30 times what the average worker made 30 years ago. Never mind that corporations like GE pay virtually no taxes at all (or in GE's case, literally no taxes at all). Nope, the empathy-deprived like HEM have no problem whatsoever with a tiny handful of people being obscenely wealthy while the middle class continues to disappear.

And BTW, my main point was not even to get into all of these details but to simply point out the idiocy of chriz's comment that it's political correctness that's ruining our country, rather than the class warfare that's been going on since Reagan became president. Yes, there has been ACTUAL class warfare going on for over 30 years, not the "class warfare" that the Fox fake-outrage machine is bitching about now.

gchawk 2 years, 9 months ago

And everyone's entitled to their own opinion, as long as it's the same as yours, right?

Micky Baker 2 years, 9 months ago

Maybe if you wanted to pay higher prices than are already on those items you purchase, they would move them back here. Or maybe, we could actually stop requiring them to pay to comply and start requiring those that don't comply to pay for it?

Bangkok_Jayhawk 2 years, 9 months ago

Politics always seem to find their way on a sports website. Should we debate gay marriage and a flat tax next?

KUbsee69 2 years, 9 months ago

gay marriage ... no, flat tax ... yes.

hawk316 2 years, 9 months ago

Yes, but this time the political discussion ties in directly to the article.

hawk316 2 years, 9 months ago

Yes, we would all agree that there are much bigger problems in our country than "political correctness," Nevertheless, I would argue that it is definitely a negative story line in the nation's current narrative. Personally, I find much political correctness ridiculous and absurd. It's like we've lost much of our common sense as a people.

Hurinfan 2 years, 9 months ago

This is PC BS. I wonder why the NCAA hasn't gone after Notre Dame.... It's because they have money and they're a big school.

actorman 2 years, 9 months ago

Your point is well taken, Hurinfan, although one could also argue that it has a lot to do with the big difference in status between the Irish and Native Americans in this country. It's not a big a deal if a mascot is based on a group that's not being discriminated against (even if they've been discriminated against in the past).

actorman 2 years, 9 months ago

That should say, "It's not AS big a deal ..."

JayHawkFanToo 2 years, 9 months ago

Actorman, How exactly are native Americans being discriminated now? or recently? As I understood, the NCAA point was that the names promoted an unfair stereotype such as "fighting -insert and native American name here" of native Americans. However, this is hypocritical since the "Fighting Irish" name would seem to promote the stereotype of the "drunk, fighting Irishman" don't you think?

Jack Wilson 2 years, 9 months ago

See, you ask reasonable questions. But reason has nothing in common with the politically correct crowd. It's about excuses. It's about making themselves feel good. It's about pandering.

It has nothing to do with putting folks in a better position to succeed in life.

actorman 2 years, 9 months ago

JayHawkFan, if you don't think that Native Americans are being discriminated against any more, you probably also don't think there's still racism out there.

If you were to look up the statistics, you would see that Native Americans are at or near the bottom in virtually every category, whether it be unemployment, poverty, alcoholism, etc. Now I'm sure that ditto-heads like HEM would say that these problems come solely from the lack of personal responsibility, that there's no discrimination whatsoever any more, and that anyone can get ahead if he/she tries hard enough. But that's an extremely simplified answer to an extremely complex problem.

All that being said, I also did say that Hurinfan's point was well taken. I have mixed feelings about the NCAA mandating changes in mascots. I've always been bothered personally by names like the Fighting Sioux (and the Fighting Irish, for that matter), but if the Sioux tribe itself is not offended, then ND should be allowed to keep its mascot. I guess the question should be how much, if any, of the tribe itself is offended. Perhaps the best way to handle it would be to do a poll among the tribe itself and react based on how they feel about it.

Micky Baker 2 years, 9 months ago

except,the Sioux nation doesn't feel discriminated against. The NCAA is trying to force them to behave in way that appeases the NCAA.

ColoKU 2 years, 9 months ago

The NCAA has gone after larger athletic departments. Illinois cannot currently host post season events nor bring their mascot to any. Florida State and Utah received waivers due to their ties to the Seminal and Ute tribes respectively. Louisiana Monroe recently changed their name and mascot among several others.

fansincewilt 2 years, 9 months ago

What does that have to do with the NCAA? It's time someone did something about this kind of nonsense. I'm sure the Sioux were proud of this representation. I know I sure would be. McLemore and Traylor have shown they can made the grade. I think the NCAA is out of control. They are interfering too much in good people's lives.

sabd 2 years, 9 months ago

Did anyone else see the camera shot of the Native American guy wearing s shirt that said "fighting sioux". Must not be that offensive to him.

ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 9 months ago

One time I made up the username "Matt_Talt" and only got to post one comment before the ljw took away that account. Just say'n...

minnhawk84 2 years, 9 months ago

Well, living next door to North Dakota, I've been listening and watching this Fighting Sioux saga for too many years.

  1. Why hasn't the NCAA gone after the Fla State Seminoles? Their war chant (based on old John Ford western movie soundtracks) and tomahawk chop is really dumb,more racist, and much worse than anything the Fightin' Sioux ever did. But, oh yeah, FSU has a lot more powerful alumni, money, and fame than little Old North Dakota, so the NCAA didn't force them to drop the Seminole name, mascot on a horse, and the tomahawk chop.

  2. "Sioux" is a derogatory Ojibwe (Chippewa) word describing their enemies the Dakota/Lakota Nation. Sioux means "snake" in Ojibwe. The word Sioux is offensive to many of the Dakota/Lakota.

  3. North Dakota plays basketball only to show some diversity. It is a huge hockey school, and the Fightin' Sioux are well-known in NCAA tournament.

  4. When I would come home from KU over break and start blathering my newly-learned Liberal (now progressive) BS to my Dad, he would listen patiently, and then remind me "not to be so open minded that my brain fell out." The NCAA should do the same.

kureader 2 years, 9 months ago

Interesting post. The NCAA's brains fell out many moons ago. Apparently, the same thing happened to Actorman.

refugee 2 years, 9 months ago

I would change to "Fighting Sue" and honor the NCAA and ACLU's lawyers..

bad_dog 2 years, 9 months ago

How about "Boys named Sue" in honor of Johnny Cash?

cstevenday 2 years, 9 months ago

Always a way around it if people want to belittle the NCAA. Phighting Sue

Cleveland Engines

Washington Read Skins

FSU Swimmin Holes

What about other names that offend?? Fighting Irish, Vandals, or Wildcats

cstevenday 2 years, 9 months ago

Ok.....somebody help me out. I cant figure out how to cut and paste a link from my phone, but........YOU ABSOLUTELY have to Google "Scoopgods Fighting Sue" and read that article. Maybe someone can attach the link from their PC.

Its a must read. Hilarious!

Rock Chalk!

Beate Williams 2 years, 9 months ago

Very good post Minnhawk84. Informative and targeted. Your dad is a pretty smart guy and I agree the NCAA should do the same; they are so obviously biased in their approach to this type of situation. Actorman you hit the nail firmly on the top and the fact that chriz and Maxhawk are incapable of thinking that liberals (progressives) are capable of thinking logically or holding a job (I have worked for 40 years, never taken a dime from unemployment and served my country for two years) and take offense that individuals such as the two mentioned above are so pathetically right wing they are incapable of considering all sides of an argument but want to immediately want to label anyone who thinks differently from them as someone who is trifling and lazy...I think they are looking at themselves and commenting about their own shortcomings when I read garbage such as that. Sorry, but had to comment. On the other hand I think HCBS has the team moving forward, he needs a couple of the bench players to step up particularly to relieve TRob and Withey for a spell and I think that is the reason Withey had limited minutes on Sat. Withey is the surprise on this team and I think he will be very effective during the upcoming league play.

David Lara 2 years, 9 months ago

I've had just about enough of your dye-a-tribe....

Just had to.

ironhead80 2 years, 9 months ago

I'm a proud Apache/Creek Indian from Kansas and I never minded the native american mascots in fact I am proud that people would want to be called a native american tribe and use the name proudly to represnt there school. Real American Indians do not waste time on this matter, we have a strong since of who we are and don't get caught up in the political correctness BS!

kerbyd 2 years, 9 months ago

I was wondering what people thought of the mascot "Jayhawks". There is probably somebody in Mizzery who is upset with our use of that mascot.

Micky Baker 2 years, 9 months ago

They are, but for more than one reason. They can't match the successes of the University of Kansas.

JayHawkFanToo 2 years, 9 months ago

Oh the irony, their HS is known as the "Home of the Indians"...go figure http://www.osceola.k12.mo.us/

kureader 2 years, 9 months ago

It doesn't seem to occur to the NCAA that the Dakotas can take care of their own issues, assuming there are any.

I'm sure that if the NCAA could, they'd find a way to change the names Sioux Falls and Sioux City.

The morons at the NCAA are the ones who need oversight and supervision.

Alohahawk 2 years, 9 months ago

If the NCAA truly wanted to be politically correct, think of the number of city, county, river and state names they'd have to ban as well: Ex. Shawnee County (one of many in Kansas, alone), Kansas, Illinois, Delaware, Detroit, Memphis, Etc.

Maybe they'd rather see mascots named "keisters", "hotdogs" or (heaven forbid) "iconoclasts".

Personally, I see a mascot name as a compliment to whatever it's origins are. (except in the case of "wildcats and tigers")

kureader 2 years, 9 months ago

Great point. I would think that wildcats and tigers could be offended that their names are used as the mascots for K-Straight and Mizury.

Comon' NCAA, it ain't right! Make K-Straight and Mizury change their mascot names!

OldOldHawk 2 years, 9 months ago

Detroit is a French word. Memphis is named for a city in Egypt of the same name.

Alohahawk 2 years, 9 months ago

I tried looking them up before posting, and couldn't locate anything other than their being cities. Should have known better. Mahalo for the correction. I've always thought of the two as American Indian names. (Believe it or not, I did pass my history courses in high school.)

Still, a considerable amount of names taken from American Native Indian tribes.

kerbyd 2 years, 9 months ago

Just a quick check of state names shows that over half (26) were derivatives of native american names or tribes.

OldOldHawk 2 years, 9 months ago

I agree that the whole thing is silly. America is absolutely laden with Native American names. The NCAA is ridiculous from top to bottom, I am not surprised that they exhibit that characteristic with reference to this issue.

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