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Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Keegan

Lack of depth costs Kansas carrot, stick

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 80-74 loss to Davidson on Dec. 19, 2011.

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KU vs. Davidson

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Davidson defeated Kansas, 80-74 on Monday, Dec. 19, 2011 at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

— If Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self sounded Monday night like a man who has been working without his two best friends this season, well, maybe that’s because he has had to make that adjustment.

A basketball coach’s two best friends are not his whistle and chalkboard. They aren’t his contract and fan club.

Any coach’s two best friends are his carrot and his penalty box. The carrot he holds is known as playing time, the penalty box a folding chair a few seats down the row. The carrot goes to those who apply the detail given to them in preparation for the opponent. The penalty box is where players who don’t follow the script go to watch the game.

Until Mario Chalmers hunkered down and learned how to play tough defense and until he kept the ball moving through the air instead of bouncing it off the floor and grinding the offense to a halt, he sat and watched the less talented, more experienced Jeff Hawkins hear the Allen Fieldhouse ovations that come with starting-lineup introductions.

Any relapses from an older Chalmers meant he had to watch Sherron Collins in his place.

It’s much tougher for Self to dangle a carrot or point to a seat on the bench when handcuffed by such a shallow roster.

In the wake of Monday’s 80-74 loss in the Sprint Center to Davidson in which KU needed to defend well for two halves and didn’t do so in the second, Self pinpointed how his team’s lack of depth hurts the most.

“To me, this is what I really think, and this could be coaching, this could be a lot of things, so I’m not putting the blame on the players,” Self said. “I’m not putting the blame on really anybody. But the reality of it is, depth is such a great thing. But depth isn’t great because of injuries, and depth isn’t great because of foul problems. Depth is great because when guys don’t play the way you want them to, they don’t have to play. That’s why depth is great. Everybody who says other things, no, that’s it.”

A year ago, if Thomas Robinson stayed nailed to the opposite block when his fellow post player got pump-faked into the air and driven around, Self could have found a seat for him and let him watch the Morris twins play together for a long while. Now, he can take him out, tell him why he was taken out, then have to put him back in there before the sweat even dries.

A year ago, if Tyshawn Taylor drove the baseline, leaped into the air, turned his head left and threw a pass into a sea of red jerseys, Self could send him to the corner and let him watch Elijah Johnson for a while.

Gold stars on the forehead and barstools in the corner with back to the rest of the classroom come at such a great risk with this team because of the huge talent drop-off.

“We just don’t have guys who can come in yet and us not skip a beat,” Self said.

Ben McLemore and Jamari Traylor might have been those guys, but the NCAA declared them ineligible. Naadir Tharpe and Kevin Young could get there, but until that happens, if it does, it’s on the starters to realize that if they don’t play consistently tough defense and value every possession, such losses as Monday’s won’t come as much of a surprise anymore.

Comments

Sam Constance 2 years, 4 months ago

My, my... what a difference a week makes.

With the reactions to this game, you would think the first nine games that KU played are completely irrelevant. You know, the nine games where KU's severely shallow team took on the 18th-hardest SOS in the entire country and came out with a 7-2 record, including a 2-2 record against the Pomeroy top 20, or a 3-2 record against the Pomeroy top 50. Fun fact: KU's 18th-rated SOS is one of three teams in the top 50 with a SOS in the top 20: #10 Duke (with an SOS of 19th), #11 Kansas (with an SOS of 18th), and #48 Long Beach State (with an SOS of 2nd).

KU remains one of the most efficient offensive and defensive teams in the country, in spite of it being a "bad team" that is the result of "recruiting failures". KU has the 22nd most efficient offense in the entire country and the 13th most efficient defense in the entire country. Hardly a "bad team", even as bad as they looked at times last night.

Let's go over that again--KU has played one of the harder schedules in the country, has one of the better rated offenses and defenses and has a respectable record against the top 50.

While I can certainly appreciate the desire of KU fans to analyize and deconstruct the intricacies of this team and look for the items that need improvement, a good number of the comments here are just negativity rendered into text. It's like the critics of Self's recent recruiting "struggles" have been waiting in the wings for proof that Self is a terrible recruiter, and now we have a mid-major loss on which to pin the frustrations of those get their entertainment from watching the recruiting boards. I mean, the comments about not being able to stay in the top 25 or potentially missing the tournament are making me wonder if the KU fanbase needs to be on suicide watch.

Personally, I'm taking a different approach with this season--we've been really, really good for so long that it's almost refreshing to enjoy a season in which I'm fairly certain that we'll reach a minimum level of achievement (make the NCAA tournament, compete in the Big 12), and that anything beyond those levels is gravvy. I can't get too upset about losing to Davidson because these bumps happen in seasons where we are a National Championship contender. It's more understandable this year than in any years past, but KU fans' patience is near zero.

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Beate Williams 2 years, 4 months ago

Jaybate, as usual you have demonstrated a great deal of insight regarding this current group of players, past group and coaches. People seem to forget that every coach has a philosophy to winning and I believe HCBS' statistics demonstrate that his philosophy is pretty damn good.

Concerning the statistics regarding how many players played how many minutes over the past 7-8 years does not take into account the fact that a few players probably received 4, 5, 6 or so minutes which was probably enough time to spell one of the starters particularly when you consider all of the timeouts you have during the dance. Self has attempted to utilize 8-9 players at times but it seems that every time he does so, the weaknesses of the bench players becomes very obvious. Many posts refer back to Tharpe needing more time; I would agree he needs more time but if you closely observe him when he is out there its like he is in fact a deer in headlights, whether on offense or defense but especially on defense. I could see him losing his man every time they go on defense and as a result being totally useless on offense as a result of thinking about the mistakes he has made on defense. In a close game, where you need to build some type of toughness with your starters, it would be ridiculous to leave an inept player on the floor, IMHO.

People are even complaining that Self is telling the press that the team is not very good, they don't do this and that and as a result makes the team members feel bad and he should not do that. I find it so difficult to comprehend this mentality. These are athletes that have been recruited to a major D-1 basketball program and undoubtedly have heard criticisms before but definitely should be able to take it when they are shown when watching film exactly what the coach is talking about. It's not like he says these things and then goes off somewhere to sulk, but in fact shows them in film sessions exactly what it is they have done wrong and what they should have done.

The sky is not falling; this is a good team, maybe not as good as last year's team, but they will get better and will be prepared for a run at the B-12 championship and will have a good run in the dance. There is no doubt in my mind that most of the posts that are so critical come from individuals who have never participated in any sporting activity at the college level, have never coached anything more difficult than 7-8 year old girls soccer but curse at the players and the coaches when they make one mistake and definitely would do a better job than any of the players and the coaches. What a laugh!

I appreciate you Jaybate and a couple of others who are thoughtful with their comments, realistic about where the team is and appreciate what it takes to play and coach at this level.

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wildjayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Self has got to recruit better than he has the last 3-4 years, because he stinks on recruiting.

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Mike Barnhart 2 years, 4 months ago

Believe it or not, Kansas hasn't lost more than 5 games in the Bill Self era when scoring at least 70 points in regulation.

He'll fix the defense!!!

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jaybate 2 years, 4 months ago

Most coaches don't like to pursue peak cardio vascular conditioning, because it rules out to many recruits, to many guys with great guns, too many guys that can guard a post man mano a mano with bulk and strength.

Self is one of those coaches.

His system has room for all kinds of players with all kinds of abilities. Use of all these varied abilities means he can meet almost any match up situation one way or another.

But one.

His teams have troubles when they run into teams that are in peak condition, run motion offenses, and pick all game long.

His teams wear down in these games.

I have long argued that he sends his teams out against these mid majors at least than peak emotional pitch intentionally.

He rightly bets that his extra talent can find a way to win against these lesser teams, if they just keep fighting.

And it works most of the time.

No one is mentioning how often KU beats mid majors, which is a great majority of the time.

KU really only loses to these mid majors when they have superior conditioning, and KU's trey shooting plummets beneath 30%.

Every coaching philosophy and approach to the game has an achilles heel.

It maybe that this is the vulnerability of Self's system.

But I do think there is a way to get in better cardiovascular condition than KU gets in.

Last year after VCU, I called it XTReme Conditioning.

If KU had been in condition equal or superior to the three games we are discussing, KU almost certainly would have shot 5 percentage points better from trey and 5 percentage points better from the line.

In every case, that improvement, would almost surely have won KU all three games, even with Self sending them out flat, and even with the off night of shooting.

And that improved conditioning would also have chopped of 5 percentage points from the opponent's shooting, too.

Self is a stocky, muscular guy. He has more of a football player's body than a basketball players body. Those types of body morphology rarely can get in the kind of peak cardio vascular condition that Smart's VCU, or Wooden's UCLA teams were in.

Self was probably an exceptional athlete, but probably never in physical condition approaching what Smart and Wooden both insisted on from their players.

Self believes in athleticism and basketball skills and secondarily in peak conditioning.

Wooden was frank with each team each season.

"I can't promise you we will be the most talented team every game we play this season, but I can promise you we will be the best conditioned team every game we play this season," he is quoted as telling each team.

From what I have read, the conditioning never let up until the tournament.

But just as importantly, he recruited players with a great capacity for such conditioning.

Self may have to make a choice regarding this issue at some point.

Rock Chalk to both of you!

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jaybate 2 years, 4 months ago

So: my conclusion here, AsadZ, is that while every thing you said was true, later in the season this team will be allowed to switch off part of the time and you will not see this problem.

Next, kushaw notes a trend in mid major losses in which KU shoots poorly from trey and from the FT line and eventually struggles defensively also.

He mentions NIU, VCU, and this Davidson game.

He is certainly right about the similarity among these games.

Each involved a mid major.

Each involved a mid major running a lot of motion and setting a lot of picks.

Each involved a mid major that played with great discipline.

And I would add that each involved a mid major in significantly better condition than KU.

Fatigue not only makes cowards of us all, it wrecks our trey shooting and rattles our concentration at the line.

Each game was an extremely tight game and a close loss.

Each game saw our trey gunners lose their legs and and their accuracy from trey.

Each game saw our players standing at the free throw lines bent over with hands on their thighs before shooting.

What we have here is a conditioning problem, kushaw.

Self's boot camp is mentally tough, because it is set up so that the weakest man has to be improved to save the whole team from running more. It builds esprit d' corp. It builds mental toughness.

But...

It is not geared to take each player to optimal cardiovascular conditioning.

John Wooden only recruited players that could reach a level of conditioning that was superior to most other teams.

As a result, Wooden's teams simply wore down other teams by never tiring even a little in games.

Self's teams are not conditioned that way.

Shaka Smart's team was condition that way.

This Davidson team was absolutely tireless.

People in basketball have always underestimated the importance of peak cardiovascular conditioning.

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jaybate 2 years, 4 months ago

"To kushaw and AsadZ"

Among the many citing some deep problems with the team are two folks I enjoy reading and tend to agree with most of the time.

So: I best address these first.

kushaw cites a trend of losses to mid majors evidencing an an underlying structural problem in Bill Self's approach against mid majors.

AsadZ notes bad defense going over picks.

Let me take AsadZ's valid observation first; that KU by the second half was failing to fight through the picks, turn and burn and stop these mid major ballers.

Yep, that was happening, especially in the second half.

Why?

Fatigue, I would say. They just finally got worn down fighting through what were increasingly body blocks, as the game wore on.

Why did Self let this happen?

Was it lack of depth?

In one sense, yes. Self could not in a close game afford to sub his less experienced players in the second half and that took its toll for sure. Another problem was the Withey could not chase the post effectively in this motion offense and so Self had to pull him for most of the game; that really curtailed his depth. And when he brought Kevin Young in, instead of getting Kevin Young of the Ohio State game, he got Kevin Young of the previous games--the Kevin Young that starts out with a defensive blow by because he positions his feet in a way that he cannot slide to stop the blow by. When KU has to play without Withey and Young, that leaves just two guys inside for a stretch run. The bigs got tired.

Now, outside, as hard as a motion offense is on a player like Withey, it is even worse for a guy like Naadir Tharpe. Tharpe just had no chance at all, so that meant TT had to play big minutes. Maybe I'm a softie, but playing a guy 33 minutes a week after knee surgery is apt to result in a tired TT. it did.

EJ is still a little thin to deliver a blow and make people fear setting picks on him. EJ struggled.

But the truth about this is that in a late season, must have win, or in a Madness game, Self will not have them fighting through every pick every time, as he did against Davidson. He will have them switching; this was one of Self's manhood tests he puts the teams through every year regarding m2m defense. You are not a manly m2m team until you have fought through picks in a motion offense for a full game.

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master16 2 years, 4 months ago

it just comes down to the fact that overall as a team we're currently just not that good (potential and talent wise), compared to the previous seasons. our entire roster (excluding the guys who aren't playing i.e. mclemore and traylor) has probably 1 first round draft pick in Robinson, who is good enough to be top 10, even top 5. taylor and johnson are likely 2nd rounders, and withey too if he gets tougher for his senior year.

the last season that we were as unproven as we are now was 2008 - 2009. still had a decent year given the circumstances but still had some major bumps in the road (arizona, texas tech). it happens. lower your expectations, and everything will fall into place. we aren't great, but can still be very good if we limit turnovers and tighten up perimeter defense.

looks like HCBS is loading up for the 2013/2014/2015 seasons with the recruits that are coming in. it's only uphill from here.

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Mike Bratisax 2 years, 4 months ago

Keeg..I happen to enjoy your insights and articles. Will undoubtedly be called an alias or member of your family. But don't give a sh**.

You still got my address : )

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Jan Rolls 2 years, 4 months ago

This is the same old junk as last year. Morningstar was adequate but he surely wasn't a star or the savior. Now it's the same with tehan a guy that didn't play but now he is the new morningstar. Coach did the same last year he didn't play the big man and get him some experience and he still improved. How much better would he be if he got time. Why did he recruit top players and put them on the bench. I am sure they have more talent than tehan who can only do one thing - shoot threes. Same thing happened the year before when it came to crunch time in the tourny - lack of depth. He said it right don't blame the players maybe it's coaching. I alwys thought you put your best players on the floor and let them go.

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FreddyinLA 2 years, 4 months ago

Any reason KU didn’t recruit the 6’4” freshman shooting guard from Olathe KS who has a great stroke and made some plays in the first half which would indicate he understands how to play basketball?

Instead, we get three guys who went to three different high schools. One is already gone, who knows if the other two will ever play.

Davidson actually had another player from Kansas who made some key play down the stretch, something our guys didn’t do.

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theend 2 years, 4 months ago

Jaybate has nailed it.......everyone needs to calm down. This was just a bad game and give Davidson credit....they are good. It's a shame that so many of you have these unrealistic expectations for KU. We can't be dominant every single season. Life doesn't work that way. Actually......we are long overdue for this. And really......I still think we will be a decent team even this year.

Chill out.

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jaybate 2 years, 4 months ago

KU did not play badly.

It shot poorly: 26% trey, 58% FT.

It was a close game all the way on a bad shooting night.

KU would have blown them out on an average shooting night.

Kudos to Davidson for being tough, physical and capitalizing us on our off putting night.

Next.

PS: TT is an absolute man.

PPS: other positives were declining TOs and rising strips. Travis Releford is turning into a defensive assassin. He played great.

PPPS: time to show a little zone press and zone once or twice a game for some different looks. 1-3-1 is right for these guys.

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Chris Shaw 2 years, 4 months ago

When push comes to shove and the game gets in a tight spot, Self tightens up and shortens his bench and it doesn't matter who's sitting on the bench. IMO, when the games matter the most come March and April you will see the same trends as above and 6 to 7 guys will be getting all the minutes, which makes having a deep bench the last two years worthless except those guys waited their turn and now their our main players.

I thought the purpose of having "Depth" was to utilize those guys to wear the other team down. The trend above shows the opposite is being done to Self and KU.

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Chris Shaw 2 years, 4 months ago

Man, I'm disagreeing with a lot of people today including the journalists. I didn't like Gary Bedore's title in the other thread because it's basically saying that Davidson isn't a good team which is totally false.

Seriously, what did "Lack of Depth" have anything to do with this game or the games that matter the most...................elimination games in March and April.

IMHO, Bill Self should have treated this like an NCAA elimination game and experimented with some different strategies.

1) He had 8 days to plan for a Davidson squad

2) We as fans have been constantly reminded for the past week about Davidson 2008 and by default that has brought up Bucknell, Bradley, UNI, VCU, Southern Illinois, Nevada (Twice), Richmond, Massachusetts, St. Josephs, Oral Roberts, and now Davidson.


I mean, as much as we want to try and throw this on the backbunner almost 25 percent of Bill Self's losses at Kansas has been to Mid-Majors. That's a striking number!

I'm not saying that losing to Mid-Majors is a bad thing because every single one of those teams above was a really good team IMO. The problem I have is that it's the same story after KU loses to one of those squads................."They controlled tempo and we could never get into a rhythm". How about doing something so the other team gets out of rhythm?

Anyway, I got off tangent there. Back to the depth issues which I completely disagree with Self in his quotes as well as Keegan. Kansas has had the most depth in the country during the major part of Self's tenure. There has been a couple of seasons, including this one this year, where he was a little light.

With that said, what is the point of having "Depth" if you're not going to use it. If you go back and look at KU's final game of each season since 2004. How many guys have played in those elimination games?

2004-7 guys played 10 or more minutes (OT GT Loss)

2005-7 guys played 10 or more minutes and Giles got 7 minutes as the 8th guy (Bucknell Loss)

2006-7 guys played 10 or more minutes and Jackson got 7 minutes as the 8th guy (Bradley Loss)

2007-8 guys played 14 or more minutes (UCLA loss)

2008-7 guys played 21 or more minutes (National Championship) Aldrich got 4 minutes

2009- 7 guys played 14 or more minutes and starter Marcus Morris only played 14 minutes. (MSU loss)

2010- 7 guys played 19 or more minutes and Morningstar played 8 minutes (UNI Loss)

2011- 5 guys played 30 or more minutes, Selby got 15, T-Rob and EJ 6, and Mario Little 5 (VCU Loss).

I think this lack of depth talk is simply an excuse and I don't buy it at all. I mean, Bob Mckillop is using a player in KU"s own backyard from Olathe KS as a freshman for 27 minutes in beating the team he grew up watching.

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4jhawks4ku 2 years, 4 months ago

Oh We got trouble, terrible, terrible trouble, right here in River City. Conner Teahan is a great guy but if he's not hitting he's not a starter for a top ten team. Releford decent D but no imagination on offense. Tyshawn another Jekyll and Hyde night. How do you beat the No 2 team in the nation one game and look foolish against the 83rd ranked team the very next game. Where was Kevin Young? I look for Coach to change a few things and shake things up. With only a few games before conference. lets get it together Hawks, all for one and one for all. And dont forget what losing feels like.

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Clarence Haynes 2 years, 4 months ago

Without the luxury of depth, the coaches have to make some adjustments in terms of how they play their bench players. I must also say that if I were a player, the manner which some of them are "called out" publicly by the coaches would have my mind in a swirl!On the other hand, all players have to play better within themselves and because they do not have the bench depth to fall back on, they must optimize every moment on both offense and defense when they are on the court.

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IrishCharlie 2 years, 4 months ago

LOL, give the guys a break, they simply STUDIED TOO HARD for their exams !!!

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ccarp 2 years, 4 months ago

This is the semester break wake up call at the sprint center. The guys need to play their role on offense and shut down their assignments on defense. Anyone remember UMass? That was a better KU team and honestly a worse game. We need to learn from this, but all the tools are there for a strong conference run and playing the dark horse in the tourney. FWIW, last night was the first look I've had of Jamri Traylor. We could have used that body to bang this year. Hope he hits the books this semester and is ready for next year.

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Bangkok_Jayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

On the positive side, it is pretty incredible to have a "down year" that keeps us in the Top 25, contending for another Big 12 Title, and watching a potential First Team All American. And to be honest, who knows what to expect with the tournament... U-Conn certainly wasn't the best team last year!

Cheers to being a fan of a team that defines any year we are not National Championship contenders as a down year! RCJH

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Bangkok_Jayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

I love the Hawks and am usually on the optimistic side but I worry that this could be a down year or even two for the Hawks. We don't look like contenders. At the end of this year, Robinson and Taylor will be gone. If I were to project a starting 5 for next season, it would look something like this.

Elijah Johnson: Has not been a good starting player Ben McLemore: Mystery... At least he will have a year of practice. Travis Releford: Defense Perry Ellis: Should be good but he will be a freshman. Jeff Withey: Playing good but not great.

With Tharp, White, Peters, Adams, Lucas, and Traylor all coming off the bench you would think that the depth will be better, but the starting 5 looks like 5 good players with nobody that stands out as great. We will be a top 25 team this year and next year, but I don't see us as contenders for another 2 years. I hope that next year can at least be the start of a new era of players, but I don't know if we will be a Final Four caliber team the next 2 years.

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Dyrk Dugan 2 years, 4 months ago

this loss, is one we'll have to get used to this year...because it could very well repeat.

it has nothing to do with the style of Davidson, or the motion offense, or mid majors...it's about our kids bringing it every night and following the game plan. and this team, with its lack of depth and talent, can't do it.

we had a huge advantage inside last night....but what did we do? chucked up 23 threes....(20 with the game on the line). we make nine threes vs. OSU, and we think we're, well, Davidson (they shot 33). I mean c'mon! if the discipline isn't there vs. Davidson, in Kansas City, at a sold out Sprint Center, where will it be? and 50 50 balls went their way big time, and we had no steals in the 2nd half.

i think we'll beat USC Thursday...and beat Howard and UND. but then the league? we'll be lucky to go 12-6...i say 11-7. We're just not that good...and we're relying on guys who aren't that good, or don't have the experience for it.

TRob must bring it every night...and he did last night...but if he goes down, we're done.

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HawkfromHays 2 years, 4 months ago

This is a direct result of recruiting failures in the last 2 years.

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Michael Luby 2 years, 4 months ago

I do have to bash one thing I saw. To put it lightly, in the last 2 min of the game, there was a defensive break down where ALL 5 KU players were grouped together up at the top of the key and the ball got tossed to the left side for a WIDE OPEN 3 which pretty much iced the game. This team is not that good. That is a fact. BUT, I firmly believe they will get better, even if we have to wait until next year.

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leonard 2 years, 4 months ago

We were not beaten last night by a team with better players...we were beaten by a team stocked with intramural gym rats...and that's not a dig...it's a compliment to them.

We have enough talent, although not as much as we've been accustomed to lately. But defending our conference title ultimately will fall on the shoulders of 2 players...Taylor and Johnson.

TRob and his front court mates are good enough if the Taylor/Johnson combo decides to become the impact players many of us expected. Yeah, their shooting will be streaky but they have much more to offer...like disruptive, lockdown defense and breaking down defenders on our offensive end...with a lot more of that Davidson "gym rat" attitude.

I'm disappointed like most of us in last night's loss...but I'm not dismayed. This is going to be a fun season with its ups and downs but it's as clear to me as a bright Kansas morning that we'll go as far as Taylor and Johnson take us.

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Michael Luby 2 years, 4 months ago

This is a tough loss to swallow for sure. But to bash our head coach and call for his dismissal after our less than stellar season so far? Its just rediculous. Did you all forget how badly KU beat UNC and Memphis in 08? Its only been 3 years guys. This season we will see alot of what just happened. True fans will realize this and stick with them no matter what. There is a better than average chance our guys wont win the conference this year if they continue playing like they are. Shrug Oh well, Ive accepted it. Every single one of the nation's top programs ( UNC, DUKE, UK, UCLA, UCONN) every single one has gone through less than stellar seasons and rebounded in the next one in a major way. Didnt UNC and UK out right miss the NCAA tourney in '10? When was the last time KU has missed the big dance? If Im not mistaken, they have the record for consecutive appearances.
My point is, if youve missed it, KU will have "bad seasons" by our higher than normal standards but, they will always not be very far from turning it around the next season.

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IrishCharlie 2 years, 4 months ago

How about recruiting players who have some ACADEMIC talent?

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JakeBarnes 2 years, 4 months ago

Anyone know why Withey didn't play more?

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jhox 2 years, 4 months ago

You don't develop talent sitting guys on the bench. Tharp looked good early in the season then quit getting PT. Withey didn't play much last night. He could have spelled Robinson more. Taylor and Robinson were clearly gassed at the end. Self needs to bite the bullet and get people more experience so they're ready for conference season. We also looked like a team who may have went through one of Selfs famous all out walk throughs, and had little left in the tank by game time.

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JakeBarnes 2 years, 4 months ago

If no one is to blame who is responsible for recruiting year in and year out?

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James Naismith 2 years, 4 months ago

"Ben McLemore and Jamari Traylor might have been those guys, but the NCAA declared them ineligible."

I thought it was the Big XII that declared them partial qualifiers?? I understood the NCAA was good with them.

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kusayzone 2 years, 4 months ago

This game smelled a lot like the VCU, Bradley, Northern Iowa,,,,blah blah blah.....I put this one on HCBS. He predicted that their 3 point shooting was due to catch fire, and had no game plan to prevent it. Davidson's big men were in foul trouble all night, and that is all they had, except for the layup drills in the first half. And Jordan Juneaman in the first half?

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amatxjayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

I very seldom agree with anything Keegan says. But this is one of the most sensible articles he has written. It proves the adage, "Even a blind hog finds an acorn once in awhile."

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Hank Cross 2 years, 4 months ago

Self's doghouse is one of the reasons this team is in the shape that it is in now. Self played his pets Brady and Tyrel all the time and pulled EJ and Travis for the slightest mistake. As a result, they're about sophmores in terms of development. All because Self would hyperventilate at the possibility of a regular season loss.

For those who continue to sing the Hossanahs of Brady and Tyel, next time you're in AFH, please try to find the FF banners for the 2009-10 and 2010-11 seasons.

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Dillon Davis 2 years, 4 months ago

Self also needs to acknowledge, which I think he has in other interviews, is depth is a problem that results from him not bringing in the talent by recruiting these last couple years. Maybe this year's class wouldn't look so bad if we had jamari and ben but still it was a make-shift group that had guys being added at the last minute to basically fill the team. Merv is not going to play, Young is a hard worker but is still really under-skilled. Naadir just needs time to grow and get better which comes through experience (cough put him in for Teahan cough). Then the other 3 from that class didn't qualify!

And last year it was great getting Selby, but it was just him and Royce, who ended up transferring. And then we add Justin Wesley a transfer from LAMAR and he is so bad it's embarrassing.

He's put together a good class coming in and 13' looks to be even bigger. Next year we should be a lot better even without Robinson. Teahan is more than replaceable and Naadir will be better than Taylor. So we'll have Elijah, Withey, Releford, Tharpe, Young, McLemore, Traylor, Ellis, White, and the rest to form a pretty damn good team. Then 13' could be special with Frankamp (Hinrich 2.0), Greene, and hopefully Lewis and Walker and maybe some others coming in to add to a loaded roster.

The future looks bright but Self has clearly whiffed these last couple years recruiting wise. Losing Tarc was the final nail on the head. This year will be tough for us but next year we'll be back

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KU_Alumn_2000 2 years, 4 months ago

This article isn't bad. He quotes Coach throughout the article and stuck to the facts.

Im sure Conner Teahan is a great guy...but he is no Tyrel Reed or Brady Morningstar. Tharp may not be that much better...but he is quicker and has more athleticism. He has more upside...and he has 3 more years to play after this season. It's time to get serious about getting him more of Connor's minutes.

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jayhawkintx1973 2 years, 4 months ago

Seriously Tom, this proves, "they're not that good". Are you the one that graduated from Missouri?

After beating Ohio State, playing Duke down to the wire, this one proves it huh?

Sure, it was an upset, but do you really think they shot the ball well? They weren't shots that were defended well. They just didn't shoot well.

This doesn't prove anything.

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