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Davidson defeats Kansas, 80-74

  • 8 p.m., Dec. 19, 2011
  • Sprint Center, Kansas City, MO

Tuesday, December 20, 2011

(Mid)major bummer: Davidson proves KU ‘not that good’

Thomas Robinson tries to split the Davidson defense in the first half Monday, Dec. 19, 2011 at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

Thomas Robinson tries to split the Davidson defense in the first half Monday, Dec. 19, 2011 at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

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Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 80-74 loss to Davidson on Dec. 19, 2011.

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KU vs. Davidson

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Davidson defeated Kansas, 80-74 on Monday, Dec. 19, 2011 at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

— Mid-major Davidson’s 80-74 victory over No. 12 Kansas University on Monday night certainly would be considered a major upset in the eyes of most college basketball fans.

Not in the realm of KU coach Bill Self, however, who has seen enough of his team to realize the 2011-12 edition of the Jayhawks (7-3) are ripe for the picking on any given night.

“I don’t know if you can take as much from this game as maybe other games,” Self said, asked about some of KU’s losses to mid-majors in the past. “This team is not that good.”

The Jayhawks, who had defeated No. 2-ranked Ohio State nine days ago, trailed by as many as 11 points in the first half versus the Southern Conference team. KU had it tied at 55 with 6:33 left, but was vastly outplayed down the stretch by a squad that committed zero second-half turnovers.

“Other games where you are more talented and somebody beats you, you could consider it an upset. That wasn’t an upset tonight,” Self reiterated.

“We need to be mentally sharp every night we play. There’s not as much margin for error (this year). We weren’t sharp. This team is not mature enough to understand we have to play really well to beat the teams that maybe they (KU players) don’t think are our equals, which is total crap. This (Davidson) team was our equal. We knew it coming in, and they played like it tonight.

“This is what the reality check is ... we’ve got to be really focused, play really hard and play really smart and play to our strengths to have a chance to beat anybody on our schedule.”

Self said his Jayhawks flat-out were not ready to play in falling behind 7-0 and 26-15 early.

“They controlled the game. They whipped us,” Self said. “I thought we had a good, spirited workout today and pretty decent practice yesterday. I thought we’d be ready to play, but we weren’t.”

A 13-0 run that erased the 26-15 deficit was about the only KU highlight of the game. The Jayhawks led, 28-26, with 3:41 left in the half, but by half’s end, lagged by one point, 33-32.

“Even though we were only down one at half, it was an ugly one,” Self said. “It felt like it could have been six, eight. Our first-half defense kind of kept us in it. Our rebounding stunk (KU outboarded the Wildcats, 43-40, but was outboarded, 21-17, the first half). They had 12 turnovers, we had nine steals. It was one of our emphasis. We’ve got to get active with our hands. The second half, they played perfect. It’s unbelievable how well you can do if you don’t turn the ball over. They didn’t have any turnovers; we had no steals. We didn’t create anything the second half..”

Junior Travis Releford (eight points on night Thomas Robinson led the way with 21) said the problem was mental.

“We come out and aren’t ready to play as a team,” Releford said. “That hurts us because we are playing catch-up the whole game. We can’t come out and do that. We came out very sluggish.”

And played sloppy.

“The guys,” Self said, “don’t understand that possessions early in the game still count. We wasted so many possessions early it allowed them to get comfortable. When you allow teams to get comfortable, they get confidence.”

KU hit 40.3 percent of its shots, just six of 23 threes.

“It says 6-for-23. We were 3-for-20 because we made three when the game was over,” said Self, whose squad saw the 55-55 tie turn into a 73-65 margin with 1:05 left. “They made 11 threes (in 33 tries). They make free throws (19-for-25), and we don’t (18-for-31). As poorly as we played, and we certainly didn’t get stops when we needed to, if we make free throws at a better percentage and don’t go 3-for-20, the outcome could possibly have been different.”

As far as the fact KU may have been rusty in not playing in nine days (since the pulsating win over Ohio State), Self said: “I think Davidson had finals, too, so I’m not buying into any of that.”

KU will meet USC at 10 p.m. Central time Thursday at Galen Center in Los Angeles.

Comments

AZHawk72 2 years, 4 months ago

We're a better team than Davidson, but we didn't play like it. And while I normally agree with Coach Self's assessment of a game, I don't on this one. Yes, this team doesn't pass the ball with purpose, as it's more like "get rid of it because I don't know what to do with it," and that just is not going to cut it.

If we don't have anyone willing to penetrate and create two-on-one situations, we're going to look like we did last night--a continual launching of three point prayers that never get answered. The lack of guards is killing this team.

I feel like an idiot for taking all that Reed and Morningstar did for granted. I mean, I know that Reed created and Morningstar stopped the opponents stud on every given night, but I didn't fully appreciate their penetration, their pin-point passes, and the offensive pressure that they both brought in carving-up the defense.

Bless me, Father, for I have sinned...

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AZHawk72 2 years, 4 months ago

We're a better team than Davidson, but we didn't play like it. And while I normally agree with Coach Self's assessment of a game, I don't on this one. Yes, this team doesn't pass the ball with purpose, as it's more like "get rid of it because I don't know what to do with it," and that just is not going to cut it.

If we don't have anyone willing to penetrate and create two-on-one situations, we're going to look like we did last night--a continual launching of three point prayers that never get answered. The lack of guards is killing this team.

I feel like an idiot for taking all that Reed and Morningstar did for granted. I mean, I know that Reed created and Morningstar stopped the opponents stud on every given night, but I didn't fully appreciate their penetration, their pin-point passes, and the offensive pressure that they both brought in carving-up the defense.

Bless me, Father, for I have sinned...

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Brian Conrad 2 years, 4 months ago

by the way jg poster above... if you are soo proud of "your team" why are you posting here? jg is obviously a fan of a team that has NEVER sniffed a Final Four....

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Brian Conrad 2 years, 4 months ago

Tharpe needs to mature fast. EJ needs to learn to drive the basket. the whole team needs to understand we have one of the best big men in country . Withey rebound more aggressive . the worst part is we have guards that stand at the three point line and fire 20+ with T Rob??? this team will win nothing if they do not understand real fast... go inside and drive and dish . cut your 3 point attempts in half. Tharpe has to get more minutes... Teahon has experience... Tharpe has to learn and can not riding the bench. drive the lane , drive the lane , drive the lane.. dish to T ROB and Withey .. be ready for the pass and rebound. stop launching threes , value the ball... oh well get ready for 8 to ten losses ... these guys do not listen. ohhhh and by the way .. T Rob was gassed, had his fist up wanting out , then bad foul and turnover.. was not his or Self's fault.. with the rest of team not listening .. well Self HAD to use all the timeouts early in attempt to wake up EJ , Releford and Teahon.. play with half effort and see how big on campus you will be after 7 more losses... one thing I have figured out from this game... Tyshawn gives his all... turnovers or not if our other guards gave same effort could live with few more EJ turnovers IF he went to the goal like TT.

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jgrobb 2 years, 4 months ago

Wow, we reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy suck...............

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jgrobb 2 years, 4 months ago

Wow, we really suck............

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theend 2 years, 4 months ago

Never fails......KU loses a game and all Dr.Smiths from 'Lost in Space' come out......"We're Doomed......Doomed!!!!"

Or maybe this time of year they are Grinches.......Grinches that stole the KU Holiday Spirit. .....posting coal instead of presents!!

Well.....I will keep the spirit........Happy Holidays everyone!!

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wildjayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Last nights game against Davidson makes KU football team last year look pretty good.

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Philip Bowman 2 years, 4 months ago

I think it is long past the time when Self should stop "hiring" one and done players. We need players who want a degree from KU. Four year players will bring the consistency that makes for a good team. We need more Jacques Vaughns and less Rushes, Chalmers, etc. Let those guys go elsewhere and leave their schools in the lurch when the big money comes calling. Maybe we won't win another NCAA championship, but I'd be a lot prouder of the Jayhawks. Same goes for football.

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JayhawkJoe2002 2 years, 4 months ago

I am just as bothered by this loss as most of the posters here but I have to believe Self has a bigger plan. A loss to a mid-major now sets up coaching opportunities later in much bigger games. If Bill can use this as a coaching point to get the team to play up to expectation in the future, this loss will be worth it.

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Tony Bandle 2 years, 4 months ago

Last night was like watching the movie "Hoosiers" only we were the team from South Bend and Davidson was Hickory!!

We still could end up 10-3 going into league play. We won't lose a game in Allen, so that's 9-0 We'll split on the road, so thats 5-4 We'll win a couple of games in the tourney, so thats 2-1 And we'll win an NCAA game, so thats 1-1

Totals 27-7... a career year for many schools....a rebuilding year for us.

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William Blake 2 years, 4 months ago

Anyone know the meaning of "hustle?"

It's in the dictionary somewhere between "greatness" and "invincibility."

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rwhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

I hope they learned something about defending a smaller line-up, because if not, Misery is going to eat our lunch this year.

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Geekinout 2 years, 4 months ago

Lastly, I know Tharpe does some bone-headed freshman stuff, but imo he needs to be playing a lot more minutes. Maybe he's the glue that can bring this team together. I'm not looking for anything outrageous in the box scores, just someone who takes care of the ball and looks to feed it inside. Travis Releford, where have you disappeared to? He's one of the few players on the team that understands the mid-range game, however, this team should be attacking the basket at every chance. Tired of seeing 3's being launched when they obviously aren't falling.

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jhawkr 2 years, 4 months ago

When you are successful for a long time, you expect that success to continue. We are spoiled as Kansas basketball fans.

However, as fans I think we have to temper our expectations this year and drastically. Bill apparently is decent at making good basketball players better, but there is only so much one can do with average players. Withey and Teahan on the floor at the same time is not usually conducive to high scoring, physical, talented basketball. Tyshawn comes thru every so often, but fails to come close to the play of what we would expect of a quality point guard. And last, but not least, KU for the past several many years has been quite weak at defending the 3 point shot. In fact at times we play as if "we dare you to prove you can keep making that shot." At least it seems that way to me ............

Do we have 10 scholarships available for next year ?? I know we don't, but after the Davidson game I only saw a couple of guys that deserve one come next year.

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142466 2 years, 4 months ago

Two significant reasons for this year's downturn Are: (1) the two freshman being declared ineligble, and (2) Self's recent inability to sign top recruiting targets. Obviously, Self will never mention those two reasons in public. Especially during the season. That would serve no purpose. Overall, Self is doing an outstanding job. But if you don't have the horses, you rarely win the race.

With the NBA grabbing all top talent early, it's difficult to stay on top every year. It requires a juggling act. Duke and Carolina are the only two programs that come close to pulling it off. Kentucky can't even do it. KU, along with 2 or 3 other schools, are usually nipping at their heels. KU should ascend to a high level two years from now, maybe even next year.

I predicted 9 or 10 losses by season's end. That is a rational forecast. I'm sticking with it. I've been here long enough to have learned that, as a fan, if you have reasonable expectations, the journey is more enjoyable. Any surprises are then likely to be pleasant.

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dek9219 2 years, 4 months ago

Answer these questions. Does TT look any different now than he did as a freshman? Does CT look any different now than he did as a freshman? Does EJ look any different now than he did as a freshman? If the answer you choose is NO, then where does the blame lie? Coaching? Peaked as Freshman?(or not peaked at all). Just a thought.

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Geekinout 2 years, 4 months ago

Bill Self is a great coach, but once again that game proved that it's not always about the "jimmy and the joes" and it is in fact the "x's and o's." KU looked completely lost when they realized they could beat them with overpowering athleticism. I'm wondering why he's afraid to go back to a 2-3 zone to stop that ridiculous penetration where one guy usually breaks down the defense for either a sloppy off balance runner or a kick out to a wide open man. This team is way behind on the defensive side and were out played by inferior athletes as some would think. It's going to be a struggle this year considering there's really not much identity to this team. Even Thomas Robinson, while putting up great stats, doesn't seem to have one solid inside post move, unless you count his spin moves which usually he ends up spinning into double teams and less favorable positioning. My gosh, realize when you are being doubled!

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hihawk 2 years, 4 months ago

You think that was bad, just wait until Kansas ST., Missouri, and Baylor put a real whipass on us. The state of Kansas sure can be glad that they have Kansas St. to make the state proud that they have a sports program. Ku might look better in the MVC, but then again. they would probably would lose again. Does Charlie now how coach basketball?

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hihawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Bucknell, Bradley, Virginia Commonwealth, Northern Iowa and now Davidson. No wonder all the little schools want to play KU. Looks like the basketball is down where the football team is at. The laughing stock of the nation. ESPN had a real laugh over this one. Kansas can't beat the little schools. This should be Selfs last year, we can only hope. Zenger looks like you are called upon again to save KU. You could see this coming after last years debacle, where KU was again the laughing stock with Morningstar playing. Complete incompetent players and coach. Jay Bilis said it correct "kansas can't beat the little guy". Dick Vitale said it best the other night. "this is the worst KU team I have ever seen. Well, it showed up again. Ku will be lucky to make it into the NIT, maybe.

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jaymar74 2 years, 4 months ago

If we don't win a minimum of 33 games and another conference championship I say we just shut down the program.

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Robert Murphy 2 years, 4 months ago

Gee fellows the mighty, perfect Jaybirds got beat. What's next, the Kansas City Chiefs might beat the Green Bay Packers?

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KPOP 2 years, 4 months ago

come in off the ledge. Its going to be a long season for you that live and die with every KU possession and/or win and loss. Hopefully we'll get a little better each game, learn something and head into March with a much better team. As I see it , KU needs to develop a scorer or two or three. Somebody that wants the ball (besides TRob) and wants to score. This little weave game we play at the top of the key is nothing more than a gimmick at this point. It scares nobody and takes 3 guys out of the offense and leaves 1 option as to where the ball is going. I have faith in HCBS and his coaches that they'll get this figured out and my guess is this team will look much different Jan 15 than it does right now.

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Jocelyn Kennedy 2 years, 4 months ago

We knew it would be a rollercoaster year and I for one am perfectly fine with it. The fun all KU fans had screaming for two hours at the Ohio State game far outweighs the disappointment of last night's game. They were out for revenge for 08 (anyone see Stephen Curry's tweet?) and they played better than we did. You all can analyze all you want, but I say we enjoy the good and not be so negative about the bad. We'll get better. RCJH!!!

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William Blake 2 years, 4 months ago

Great loss to learn from right at the holidays.

"We are serving up some of grandma's famous pumpkin pie... or how about a piece of Bill Self's humble pie? It's fresh out of the oven and you only have to make 95 out of 100 FTs and run laps for an hour to taste it!"

Merry Christmas!

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theend 2 years, 4 months ago

Ignore SD Surfer Fan......he comes on this board pretending to be a fan of KU but is actually a San Diego State fan. He likes to make you think he's a real rah-rah KU person......but is not.

Get off this board, SD Surfer Fan......go post on SDSU.

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flyingfinn 2 years, 4 months ago

Turnovers and free throws both go hand in hand. You need concentration with both to be successful and this team has not demonstrated that on a consistance basis. Some how, some way we need consistant point guard play to be successful and so far TT has not played that way, I know he has been hurt but most of his mistakes are mental NOT physical. We miss Reed and Morningstar more than most people want to give them credit for from a leadership standpoint and a calming effect on the court.

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Steve Kubler 2 years, 4 months ago

It appears many of you take the comment, “This team is not that good.” and immediately turn it to "these players are not that good". If you do you are missing the point. Individually our players stack up pretty good with just about anyone. Sadly they just can not seem to get it together and work together as a team.

Go back and watch the game without watching the guy with the ball when KU is on offense and the off-ball defense when Davidson had the ball. Guys are running into each other, passes are not on target, there is little help defense, and people tend to stand and watch way to much. TRob made guards look bad a couple of times as when their man drove he stood and watched waiting for a great play rather than stepping in and taking the charge.

It is pretty evident why Teahan is in the game rather than Tharpe. Conner couldn't hit the broad side of a barn last night but he was hustling the entire game. At least part of the time he was out of position on his man was due to trying to cover another responsibility. Not bragging up Conner here, just pointing out that he was the lesser of evils TEAM wise last night. While I would love to see Naadir on the floor he still looks lost way to often for that to happen yet.

I used to play in a rec league and at the end of the high school season the high school team would come in and take some of us on. We were old, slow, and they were cocky and talented. They played the same way KU is playing now, as a group of individuals rather than as a team and from time to time we embarrassed them badly.

I would like to blame HCBS for this and in truth he does deserve some responsibility. However these guys are all adults if only barely. None of them are new to team basketball and they should all know the importance of team work.. Someone needs to become the leader this team needs and pull them together. TT should have been the one, he still could be but he had better work quickly. I saw Tharpe pull the team together last night for a chat after a foul. That shows promise for the future and I am hoping he gets his D working so that future can happen soon.

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btr555 2 years, 4 months ago

KU could be fine. We have seen moments where they can play really well. They need to get over this sense of entitlement--that they deserve to win against a lesser known opponent bc of who they are--bc Vegas favors them that will be the outcome. The problems with this team appears mostly mental--from the starters and the reserves--from turnovers to defense. People say we are not that deep which is true but come tourney time we usually only play 7 to 8 anyways--i think we can have a good 7th and a decent 8th by the end of the year. Unfortunately unless Teahan is hitting shots he should not be apart of the 7-8 man rotation. Yes he may be some sort of leader but he really could not keep up with the Davidson players--always a step behind--and to be objective that is Davidson--what happens when he plays teams that are more athletic. He is a good hustler and tips the ball back out on the offensive end but he is just not that quick.

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JayhawkLifer 2 years, 4 months ago

From Brannen's twitter page:

Brannen J. Greene @b_greene14 the gym... FOLLOW ME! Simple...future Kansas Jayhawk #2013

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JayhawkLifer 2 years, 4 months ago

Brannen Greene to KU per Dave Telep.

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stanleys 2 years, 4 months ago

7 and 3?? Even if we flipped the OSU game with a loss and won last night we are still 7 and 3 BUT this season is on Self. He recruited 3-4 guys that aren't even on the court. What the hell was he thinking? You CANNOT tell me he didn't know. I DO NOT see KU winning the Big 12 and maybe not even making the Big Dance unless we have a major turnaround in every aspect of the game. Hey it's gut check time guys, time to play!!!!

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tom123kufan 2 years, 4 months ago

We are all forgetting that Davidson shot the 3 ball unexpectedly well last night. True we didn't guard like we needed too, but they were hitting shots they don't normally hit. Every one of them was like a right job to our guts and we didn't respond. Get it in the paint!

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Scott Bonnet 2 years, 4 months ago

This team sucks. There are some decent individuals, but the team sucks. Stupid turnover after stupid turnover, add-in lazy defense and poor shot selection. Go ahead and blow smoke up each others dresses. Defend this junk. This is a bad team. I feel bad for Thomas Robinson. I'm not saying they are beyond repair, but they had better figure things out quickly or they won't begin to sniff 20 wins.

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Adam James 2 years, 4 months ago

Couldn't agree more with BigManU. As I was watching a possession late in the game when we were down by 3 our defensive intensity was outstanding. This was the only time it looked as though our pace changed....too bad it was only for one possession of the ENTIRE GAME.

This being said, our guys will bounce back and we will have a strong finish to the season and surprise some people in the tourney.

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AzHawk97 2 years, 4 months ago

Maybe Coach Self should look into recruiting some of these "mid-major" type of kids, or perhaps they don't go to enough high schools for his liking.

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bennybob 2 years, 4 months ago

Why is everyone freaking out?

7-3 is exactly where most of us thought this team would be at this point in the season.

We all knew coming in this team wasn't going to be great. You shouldn't be upset that they are playing to there ability level. you should be upset that the coaching staff is bringing in another recruiting class loaded with kids of this same ability level.

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SDSurferFan 2 years, 4 months ago

Felt like I was watching a bad KU tourney game.

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Chris Shaw 2 years, 4 months ago

Here is a theory I have:

Bill Self prides himself on discipline and running the perfect offense. I think that is great when you're playing a team that is athletically gifted vs athletically gifted squads which most of the teams in the Big 12 and most that are in a BCS conference across the country.

The problem is....what happens when you have a lessor athletic team, but it has a lot of experience, has been through the grind, is skilled, can shoot, values the basketball on each possession, and has an extremely high basketall IQ throughout the team? What do you do to a team like that? IMO, you speed them up and pressure them as much as possible and make that squad as uncomfortable as possible.

Kids who have been through the grind experience wise and that are well coached by guys like Brad Stevens and Mckillop know they have less room for error when playing the "Big Boys". I mean, why do you think Davidson had zero turnovers in the second half. Davidson never felt threatened in the second half. They were comfortable in running their sets.

1) Play of the game IMO was when KU was down 57-55 and I believe TT was at the free throw line. Tyshawn missed the first FT which is fine, but he made the second FT. I'm going to need somebody to help me out here because I'm scratching my head trying to figure out you lose one of Davidson's best shooters in the corner in transition off a made FT? Instead of being down 1 point preparing for a defensive stop...............KU didn't even get the opportunity beause of bad communication and bad leadership and found themselves down 60-56 instead. Unbelievable!

2) Dictate Pace!!!!!!!: How many more times am I going to see a Bill Self team play to the speed and pace of a Davidson, Southern Illinois, UNI, VCU, Bradley, Bucknell, Nevada, Cornell, North Dakota State. Mind Boggling!

Look, there is no doubt that KU came out sluggish tonight, but............DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Get the players out of their routine, change the pace, press, do something full court that gets Davidson and their lessor athletic team out of rhythm.

The most annoying thing about all these losses is that you can always find KU walking the ball up the court with less than 5 minutes to go in the game.

3) Defending the 3: I have never seen a team defend the 3 more poorly than these guys in probably 20 years. How many times are these guys going to go under the screen or just completely lose their man in transition?

I know going over screens is tough and is a lot of work, but it's got to be done. Also, somebody is going to have to step up and be a leader on this team. I'm not sure who it's going to be, but somebody has got to start talking and getting the team in sync defensively. To be honest, I don't think it's T-Rob's job to be that leader because he is doing everything he can and plus I am of the old school that the team goes where it's point guard takes you.

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Chris Shaw 2 years, 4 months ago

Okay Ladies and Gents, I'll be honest, this loss ticks me off more than any in recent memory. We all know about what has happened in the past so no reason to bring up those schools and teams that KU has lost to. What irritates me is that "Everybody" knows about it including the current players and still nothing has changed. I mean, we were constantly reminded of the 2008 game the past week leading up to this game.

Bill Self said so himself after the VCU loss that something needed to change. In these type of slow down, methodical, grind it out games where every possession is key................I don't see any changing going on and I'll be quite frank..................that has everything to do with HCBS. Bill Self said so himself in this article,

“They controlled the game. They whipped us,” Self said. “I thought we had a good, spirited workout today and pretty decent practice yesterday. I thought we’d be ready to play, but we weren’t.”

What's even more annoying is that Self explains that this team "This team is not that good". The problem is not in the team IMHO. If you go back and look at the backcourt of Mario Chalmers, Sherron Collins, and Russell Robinson. They struggled in a 3 point win against Southern Illinois and a 2 point win against Davidson. With that said, I do not think it's the players that are showing this consistent trend against the likes of these "Mid-Majors". I think it's the system, game planning, and the inability to adjust during the game by the staff and head coach.

The big problem I have is not that these Mid-Majors aren't good because they are really really good. We as fans, and I'm one of the few who is on the other side of the fence on this, don't give teams like Bucknell, Bradley, Davidson, Nevada, Richmond, UNI, VCU, etc enough credit when those teams are good in a given year.

I don't really paticularly care for the title of this article because it insinuates that Davidson isn't very good and that just isn't true. What many of us have to understand is that Mckillop has been planning for this team Davidson team since the 2008 season ended and this Davidson team is preparing for a big run if not this year, next year with all juniors and seniors and a nice piece in the Olathe kid as he gets better.

With that said, he problem I have is that Bill Self has allowed these squads that have lessor athletic talent to hang around the ball game and dictate tempo. He said it in the quote above. It's consistent in every game that has been similar to this one over his tenure. I seriously thought I was watching the exact same games as I did in 2007 against Southern Illinois, 2008 against Davidson and 2010 against UNI and 2011 against VCU. Seriously, what has changed in the game plan and the decision making during the game?

cont'd

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tobyfoo 2 years, 4 months ago

I love Bill Self and there is no other coach I would rather have. But something is wrong in the way he prepares for Mid majors. It happens with team after team, so it is a Bill Self problem. It's the strangest thing I've seen. What is it about Mid Majors? Keep up the great work Bill, but we need to get to the bottom of this. It has to be a mental thing, and something in the way he prepares the team for those games.

Thoughts?

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kufankam 2 years, 4 months ago

everyone that is calling for teahan to sit and play "more talented" players need to understand something. sometimes you have to play the "less talented" kid because he actually knows you system and that enables the other 4 players to run that system and be effective. when you put in a "talented" that does not have a good grasp on the system and gets lost, it clusters everything up and your other four will not be able to do the things that have made them successful. self's offense is not a "set based" play type of offense, rather it is a rules/principals type of setup. it would be easy to plug guys like tharpe in there if you running set plays and he memorized them. however, in self's system, you have to read and react based on spacing and filling certain spots. therefore, if a player like tharpe (which will probably be my fav jayhawk as i love true minded pg's) that has not had the experience on when to go where based on where the ball is at in situations, it clusters EVERYTHING up. i think that is why you are seeing a 5th year senior playing over a kid that was in HS last year. that is, i think, the main reason you rarely see young gaurds play early AND play well under self. think of chalmers's struggles, russrob's, tyshawn's, elijah's... sherron is really the only one that came in and played early with any sort of success. all the others needed to get experience in the system. give it time, and the younger guys will "get it" and we will enjoy watching them!

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Robert Brock 2 years, 4 months ago

KU brought a lot of dumb to a smart game.

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hawkshot 2 years, 4 months ago

HCBS says "This team isn't that good". This sounds like a line from Bonnieball. It's not my fault, it's the players.

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HawkKlaw 2 years, 4 months ago

The sky is falling...again!

The comments here make me chuckle. Don't get me wrong - KU should have won the game yesterday. There's plenty of blame to go around. But this year's KU team is going to have many low points. Losing to Davidson and getting completely slaughtered by UK are the two low points so far. There will be more.

Yet, this year's team did beat the no. 2 team in the country (with a hampered Tyshawn). And this KU team played Duke competitively to the final buzzer.

That's how it is going to be this year. This team is going to struggle to keep from losing more than 8 games in the regular season. It's a rare position to be in, but this year we'll be considered the underdogs in a lot of match ups.

Bill Self is one of the greatest coaches in college basketball. That said, he definitely shoulders some of the blame for this loss. I still wouldn't want any other coach at Kansas though. I would hate to be an employee working for some of you elitists...one bad day and you're fired! Oh, I know, I know. "Self can't beat mid-majors. VCU, Bradley, Bucknell! Rabble, rabble!!!" Believe what you want. Good luck finding a better coach than Bill Self. My main concern is that Self called his own team "not that good." This worries me a lot, though it doesn't surprise me that he said it. It's the truth and Bill Self is not known for sugar coating anything. This year's team, by KU standards, is just not that good right now. That could change by the end of the year though.

This whole season turnovers have been our downfall. If we can't cut down on those, we will certainly lose more than 8 games in the regular season. TT made this game unbearable to watch. He was trying to do too much and ended up making silly turnovers. That was an instance where I would have liked to see Naadir Tharpe get a shot at leading the team. It just goes to show that this year, KU will go as as far as TT can take them. TRob can have the most epic night of his career, but if TT isn't playing well KU will lose.

And every time we lose, the sky will fall again. Squawk!

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lrahardja 2 years, 4 months ago

Davidson played scrappy basketball, played tough, fouled a lot, disrupted our offense, and we didn't make enough free throws. They outplayed us every time we caught up, stretched the lead back to 5 or 6, they deserved to win.

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tom123kufan 2 years, 4 months ago

It has been a rough 2 years of recruiting and the good old NBA hasn't helped us. I feel to make the scenario of keeping 5 star guys coming in while losing some to the NBA the team must make deep runs in the tournament. Not losing to mid majors year after year after year. The tournament is the big stage that all eyes are watching and many decisions are made off of that 2 weeks. Its not the place to stub your toe over and over again. We are not that great this year. Face it and play freak'n defense like your life depends on it. I don't like our swagger at times. It's like hey get out of our way..even when we are don by 10! Come on guys this will be a solid year when you learn to listen to coach and play sound basketball. Take the head phones off and wake up!

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RockCaCO3 2 years, 4 months ago

These "Mid-Major" and "David vs Goliath" labels are getting tiresome. Just because their university doesnt have 30+ thousand students, doesnt mean they cant have competitive basketball (any sport) teams. Davidson looked pretty good last night. And we didnt.

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Jim Jackson 2 years, 4 months ago

I completely agree. I was hoping we would get a stud recruiter on staff. Unfortunately, Norm Roberts went to Florida. Sucks for us because Townsend and Dooley are not getting it done. Wow

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Sam Brockert 2 years, 4 months ago

Oh my freaking lord... Trying to read some of these comments is painful. You people act like the freaking sky is falling. There is not ONE team IN THE NATION, that does not experience losses like this OR up and down seasons like this. They will be just fine. This whole "Mid-Major" curse crap is getting tiring too...Give it a freaking rest. The negative posters sound SO spoiled... Anyone remember the 98-99 squad?

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notigers4me 2 years, 4 months ago

Whats with having our Bigs guarding out front instead of in the paint? None of our guys are button down defenders. It seems that a Bill Self coached team always has trouble guarding the 3.

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Brian Leiker 2 years, 4 months ago

This is an average team. This is unacceptable at KU. I would fully expect one of either radar ears or porn stache to be replaced by a young vibrant recruiter. Next year is going to be brutal without Robinson.

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Maracas 2 years, 4 months ago

Let's face it. KU has a pretty crappy team this year. We haven't recruited worth a crap recently.

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tical523 2 years, 4 months ago

ALSO, does EJ think he is our token, nonathletic guard who can only shoot open threes to contribute offensively? Did he not get the feeling that he could take his man off the dribble ANYTIME he wanted to, which would have created opportunities in the paint for himself and the bigs! He drove a couple times with ease which broke down the defense and good things happened. We all know you can shoot the three but when they are not falling you are too talented to just try and shoot your way out of it, break the defense down and create!!!!!

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tical523 2 years, 4 months ago

It is hard to take when you hear your head coach say "this team is not very mature", when we are lead by a senior point guard and a junior all-american power forward. I know there is more to it but I never see Taylor or Robinson get the team huddled together to create greater focus or effort. . . . again it seemed like our players simply thought we would eventually win because our jersey says KANSAS on the front. Just unbelievable to see some of the wide open three's Davidson had and then the careless turnovers we would give up. I guess I am just going to have to relax a little more and try to enjoy the process this year.

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Hammertoe 2 years, 4 months ago

Bill Self is one of the top 5 coaches in the game. How many other colleges would love to have him as head coach? Articulate, Intelligent, Rational....

KU loses to mid majors because they go into those games thinking they are better than the other team. "David vs Goliath"

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southwindjay 2 years, 4 months ago

I don't buy this mid-major curse thing. I saw a lot of guys playing very lazy and carelessly last night. Where is the help for T-Rob, really. I can't count how many time some "un-named" guard drove in and forced a shot with Robinson right there.

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studio 2 years, 4 months ago

Did anyone else notice while "weaving", the backcourt was so intent on executing the pattern they were oblivious to the defensive reaction to the (just going through the) motion? I'm wondering if either the theory of the success of any particular team set just hasn't developed into a tool for that improvisation required by the participants' natural talent or if these sets have been overly scouted and offer no more surprise to the mid major studious defenders. If these Jayhawks want to put a positive stamp on this opportunity, they (staff and players) will "get it" and perform with deserved confidence every play. Focus 24.

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Mike Barnhart 2 years, 4 months ago

S T U P I D!

This team of 3 star recruits doesn't have the basketball IQ to compete every time out. When focused, they're pretty good but they're only able to focus from "time to time!" It's gonna' be a 30 game roller coaster!

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AzNHawk 2 years, 4 months ago

OMG! The sky is falling! KU Lost to Davidson and now people probably wanna call for Self's head. Oh no! Us KU fans arent going to be spoiled with anymore wins because this team cant play consistently. What are we to do? Relax people!!!!

I kind of sensed this play and was iffy about the team coming into the season because we had lost alot of depth and alot of newcomers with little to no experience were coming in. Keep your seat belt on and your hands and feet inside the car because it's going to be a wild ride!!

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KansasComet 2 years, 4 months ago

My belief is that if you are in the rotation, meaning you are one of the top eight players on the team that has "KANSAS" on the front of the jersey, then you should be an exceptional basketball player. This is supposed to be a place where the top players in the nation come, and that goes all the way back to the days of Wilt. Too much of this "Rudy" crap going on. Teahan is a role player and nothing more. No offense to the kid, and I do like him, but he is not good enough for starters minutes. He is a great spot up shooter, when we are winning. However in the clutch, he is not very good, just being honest. Coach Self needs to let the best players play.

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Michael Luby 2 years, 4 months ago

I do have to bash one thing I saw. To put it lightly, in the last 2 min of the game, there was a defensive break down where ALL 5 KU players were grouped together up at the top of the key and the ball got tossed to the left side for a WIDE OPEN 3 which pretty much iced the game. This team is not that good. That is a fact. BUT, I firmly believe they will get better, even if we have to wait until next year.

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IrishCharlie 2 years, 4 months ago

"WE are KU, these mid-majors shouldn't be on the same court with US"

Attitude is the reason for the loss.

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Michael Luby 2 years, 4 months ago

This is a tough loss to swallow for sure. But to bash our head coach and call for his dismissal after our less than stellar season so far? See previous Keegan article's comments. Its just rediculous. Did you all forget how badly KU beat UNC and Memphis in 08? Its only been 3 years guys. This season we will see alot of what just happened. True fans will realize this and stick with them no matter what. There is a better than average chance our guys wont win the conference this year if they continue playing like they are. Shrug Oh well, Ive accepted it. Every single one of the nation's top programs ( UNC, DUKE, UK, UCLA, UCONN) every single one has gone through less than stellar seasons and rebounded in the next one in a major way. Didnt UNC and UK out right miss the NCAA tourney in '10? When was the last time KU has missed the big dance? If Im not mistaken, they have the record for consecutive appearances. I dont see them missing it this year. My point is, if youve missed it, KU will have "bad seasons" by our higher than normal standards but, they will always not be very far from turning it around the next season.

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Jim Jackson 2 years, 4 months ago

Any update ok Jakarr Sampson? Kid who decommitted from St.Johns? We could definitely use him for next year. On a side note, what is Naadir Tharpe doing on the court? Kid is tiny in stature and build and just looks lost out there. Good grief can't wait till next year. Go 'Hawks!

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IrishCharlie 2 years, 4 months ago

That wasn’t an upset tonight,” Self reiterated.

"this team is not that good"

Well Mr Self, WHO recruited them ? Is Davidson's team better recruited AND coached?

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JakeBarnes 2 years, 4 months ago

Too bad Travis Releford doesn't play with ability similar to his analysis of the game.

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Benjamin Piehler 2 years, 4 months ago

I was at the game; pretty frustrating. I lethargically assumed we would scrape by in this one, and apparently so did the team. Bill Self typically runs a good program, but there appears to be a formula to beating him... its a formula that doesn't win national championships, so it's more appealing for the "mid-majors".

Basically, its double team in the paint, watch for the HCBS trademarked lob pass to the big guy and let KU take outside shots. On the other side of the ball, a bill self team runs man defense always, so screens for 3 point shooters is "effective". Just keep to the defensive plan and keep jacking the threes, and you've got a shot against a bill self team. You might only win 2 out of 10 games vs a HCBS team when you live and die by the 3 pointer like this, which is why its a mid-major strategy... but we seem to lose at least one game a year in this fashion, too often in March. If we don't get better at perimeter defense, a good team playing 4 guards, like Mizzou, will shoot our lights out.

Oh also, the crowd was awful... pretty full house at the sprint center and you could hear a pin drop for most of the game. It got loud with about 3 minutes to go out of desperation, but all in all it was a really bad showing for us KC fans. Anyway, Rock Chalk.

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railer20 2 years, 4 months ago

This is going to happen all year...for some reason these guys get up for big games and play bad against inferior opponents. I know we got beat by Duke and Kentucky, but the guys played with intensity those games as well as Georgetown, UCLA, and Ohio St. It's when the little guys come to town that we jack around all game and it's going to cost us a Big XII title I have a feeling. This team will play to the level of its competition instead of just going full speed all year (and with Teahan, thats not very fast).

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AsadZ 2 years, 4 months ago

From the beginning this game had VCU/UNI written all over it. HCBS was certainly outcoached in this game. He needs to acknowledge it. I don't understand why Teahan continues to get so much PT instead of Nadir. Yeah he is a red shirt 5th year senior but he is not a very good defender, he only brings outside shooting, and on a cold night he is a liability. It appears to me that he is a streaky shooter, only good within friendly atmosphere of AFH. He made so many mistakes but coach continued to play him while Nadir was put on bench after one mistake.

This is one area I have a beef with HCBS. He needs to give more PT to Nadir and KY and let them play through their mistakes so they are better prepared for Feb/March. At least they will be more confident.

Coach has acknowledged that depth is a problem so why not develop it. Playing Teahan is not going to solve the problem.

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Matt Bowers 2 years, 4 months ago

Actually, it is an upset. Like KU beating OSU was an upset. Losing to these teams is tiring.

Rock Chalk

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hawkshot 2 years, 4 months ago

I've watched the World's dumbest bank robbers, drivers, and dumbest hillbillies. Now I've watched the World's dumbest basketball team. Was that Turner Gill and the football team out there trying to play basketball?

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55jayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Self is not the problem, this is a weak team that cannot play consistently. They looked tired, and really slow last night. They missed too many free throws and to be frank, Davidson was a better team last night and probably most of the time if they played KU every other week. We knew this was a young lean team and we will just have to wait until we get some of the new talent next year that will hopefully will play more consistently and not stand around while the other team runs by them and scores with players who were not defensed at all.

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JuanValdez 2 years, 4 months ago

Self is angry because the team lost the game. However this game was lost in the recruiting trail a long time ago. No sense getting angry with our players. They are trying hard. They are just not that good.

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floridajayhawks 2 years, 4 months ago

Didn't get to watch the game last night, but was not that surprised that they lost. This team is not disciplined and lacks maturity like Coach Self stated. I don't blame him, he is a great coach and gets his teams ready per X's and O's. He can't get into their heads and get them mentally ready, that's up to the players. The guard play on this team is terrible.

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blackhawkjayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

A sharp mid-major team defeating a Bill Self-coached squad? I'll believe it when I see it. OUr current problems started with Xavier and Selby - I'm hoping that we've learned from those debacles.

Self will help the team rebound, but it would be hiding your head in the sand to state that KU has a recurring problem in beating these types of teams.

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doolindalton 2 years, 4 months ago

18-31 from the free throw line. Terrible. That lost the game by itself.

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Scott MacWilliams 2 years, 4 months ago

+1, Oxcal.

Come on, people, be realistic. This team is shorthanded compared to the full boats we've had the last few years. But to think that Self and crew won't get things going the right way, gimme a break!!
We'll be playing in March, and probably a lot longer than most people will plan on...

ROCK CHALK!!

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tdscpa 2 years, 4 months ago

Is Ted Owens busy these days?

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Hank Cross 2 years, 4 months ago

I've been one of the most negative posters around here, but some of the comments on the game blog are truly beyond belief. Does anyone seriously think this team is not going to get 20 wins and get to the dance? Good grief. They'll beat USC and then drop to somewhere between 17-19 - which is where they should be ranked. It's a down/rebuilding year. Some people need to get over it.

I for one like the tougher schedule this year, had the previous two teams ran this type of gauntlet maybe they would've been ready when UNI and VCU punched them in the mouth.

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AZHawk72 2 years, 4 months ago

On a night of fairly bad news, this is only the tip of the iceberg. We will be getting drilled repeatedly until we: --convince the guards of the importance of a true assist--that is, it has to be more than just an alley-oop; --quit standing around waiting for the ball and a supposed open shot as if it's an automatic that it's going in; --quit abandoning our man to jam the middle allowing for an easy toss out and subsequent three; --forbid Robinson from reading his news clips, which have, evidently, convinced him that he's a small forward who can dribble; --stop thinking that a turnover is nothing more than a positive, agressive move instead of the consistent momentum killer that it is; --learn the importance of the free throw and how missing the front end of a one-and-one isn't anything important; --remind our bigs that shooting from outside of fifteen feet leads to no rebounders and a fast break down our throats; --act like a team that prides itself in passing, screening, not worrying about stats--just winning; and, --quit acting like a bunch of frosh who resemble deers in the headlights the minute things don't go as planned--news flash: after graduation, life won't either. Show a little of "we've been here before, and we know what to do." We have veterans--act like it.

Thirteen losses here we come.

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Jason Keller 2 years, 4 months ago

It's incredible how intouch Bill Self is with his team. Everything he said after the game is spot on. Especially about how important early possessions are to THIS ku team. We have got to have a quality possession everytime we get the ball. If we don't, anyone and I mean anyone can kick our @ss.

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phogphan2000 2 years, 4 months ago

I was worried about this one because of how poorly KU played against Davidson the last time, but if you are going to list all the losses then I'll throw out Boston U, Richmond, Lehigh, NDSU, Dayton, Portland St, Niagara, So. Illinois, UNLV, UAB, UIC and Pacific that KU beat in the NCAAs under Self. That's 13-4 against non-BCS conference tournament teams when you add in Davidson. 5-3 against the majors. UNC, Memphis, Illinois, Kentucky, Villanova with losses to UCLA, GTech and Michigan St.

Let's all stop buying into the hype that KU has a tougher time with mid-majors than other teams do. KU has just had the "luxury" of playing a lot of them over Self's tenure.

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KU_Alumn_2000 2 years, 4 months ago

Self is pissed. I could be wrong...but Connor Teahan seems really slow...and struggles big time on the defensive side of the floor. He really seems like a liability...one that's bothersome when thinking about winning games in March.

We could use T-Rels little bro on this team. Kind of wish we would of recruited him now, because if Teahan is all we got for depth in the back court...it's gonna be tough to win tournament games in March.

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manginorh00lz 2 years, 4 months ago

Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa, Virginia Commonwealth, and Self's team barely beat Davidson in 2008.

Not that this game was that big of a deal, but come on Billy boy. This isn't funny anymore.

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