Davidson defeats Kansas, 80-74

  • 8 p.m., Dec. 19, 2011
  • Sprint Center, Kansas City, MO

Tuesday, December 20, 2011

(Mid)major bummer: Davidson proves KU ‘not that good’

Thomas Robinson tries to split the Davidson defense in the first half Monday, Dec. 19, 2011 at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

Thomas Robinson tries to split the Davidson defense in the first half Monday, Dec. 19, 2011 at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 80-74 loss to Davidson on Dec. 19, 2011.

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KU vs. Davidson

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Davidson defeated Kansas, 80-74 on Monday, Dec. 19, 2011 at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

— Mid-major Davidson’s 80-74 victory over No. 12 Kansas University on Monday night certainly would be considered a major upset in the eyes of most college basketball fans.

Not in the realm of KU coach Bill Self, however, who has seen enough of his team to realize the 2011-12 edition of the Jayhawks (7-3) are ripe for the picking on any given night.

“I don’t know if you can take as much from this game as maybe other games,” Self said, asked about some of KU’s losses to mid-majors in the past. “This team is not that good.”

The Jayhawks, who had defeated No. 2-ranked Ohio State nine days ago, trailed by as many as 11 points in the first half versus the Southern Conference team. KU had it tied at 55 with 6:33 left, but was vastly outplayed down the stretch by a squad that committed zero second-half turnovers.

“Other games where you are more talented and somebody beats you, you could consider it an upset. That wasn’t an upset tonight,” Self reiterated.

“We need to be mentally sharp every night we play. There’s not as much margin for error (this year). We weren’t sharp. This team is not mature enough to understand we have to play really well to beat the teams that maybe they (KU players) don’t think are our equals, which is total crap. This (Davidson) team was our equal. We knew it coming in, and they played like it tonight.

“This is what the reality check is ... we’ve got to be really focused, play really hard and play really smart and play to our strengths to have a chance to beat anybody on our schedule.”

Self said his Jayhawks flat-out were not ready to play in falling behind 7-0 and 26-15 early.

“They controlled the game. They whipped us,” Self said. “I thought we had a good, spirited workout today and pretty decent practice yesterday. I thought we’d be ready to play, but we weren’t.”

A 13-0 run that erased the 26-15 deficit was about the only KU highlight of the game. The Jayhawks led, 28-26, with 3:41 left in the half, but by half’s end, lagged by one point, 33-32.

“Even though we were only down one at half, it was an ugly one,” Self said. “It felt like it could have been six, eight. Our first-half defense kind of kept us in it. Our rebounding stunk (KU outboarded the Wildcats, 43-40, but was outboarded, 21-17, the first half). They had 12 turnovers, we had nine steals. It was one of our emphasis. We’ve got to get active with our hands. The second half, they played perfect. It’s unbelievable how well you can do if you don’t turn the ball over. They didn’t have any turnovers; we had no steals. We didn’t create anything the second half..”

Junior Travis Releford (eight points on night Thomas Robinson led the way with 21) said the problem was mental.

“We come out and aren’t ready to play as a team,” Releford said. “That hurts us because we are playing catch-up the whole game. We can’t come out and do that. We came out very sluggish.”

And played sloppy.

“The guys,” Self said, “don’t understand that possessions early in the game still count. We wasted so many possessions early it allowed them to get comfortable. When you allow teams to get comfortable, they get confidence.”

KU hit 40.3 percent of its shots, just six of 23 threes.

“It says 6-for-23. We were 3-for-20 because we made three when the game was over,” said Self, whose squad saw the 55-55 tie turn into a 73-65 margin with 1:05 left. “They made 11 threes (in 33 tries). They make free throws (19-for-25), and we don’t (18-for-31). As poorly as we played, and we certainly didn’t get stops when we needed to, if we make free throws at a better percentage and don’t go 3-for-20, the outcome could possibly have been different.”

As far as the fact KU may have been rusty in not playing in nine days (since the pulsating win over Ohio State), Self said: “I think Davidson had finals, too, so I’m not buying into any of that.”

KU will meet USC at 10 p.m. Central time Thursday at Galen Center in Los Angeles.


manginorh00lz 7 years, 2 months ago

Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa, Virginia Commonwealth, and Self's team barely beat Davidson in 2008.

Not that this game was that big of a deal, but come on Billy boy. This isn't funny anymore.

jchief40 7 years, 2 months ago

Good thing we don't have UMKC to deal with this year! :O :O

Stephen Young 7 years, 2 months ago

So right! This clown, Bill Self, has only won one national championship; at least one season, if memory serves, he couldn't even win a conference championship; who cares if he continually represents everything that is great about college athletics in general, and The University of Kansas in particular! He should have been fired long ago for not winning every single game!

Chris Bruning 7 years, 2 months ago

Yeah but it was a major DOUCHE comment!!!!!!

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

The Davidson coach took his squad to back-to-back title games ... your point?

wfzman 7 years, 2 months ago

Ahhh, tongue firmly planted in cheek.

The thing is that this KU squad needs to emulate the mid-major that took them to the wood shed last night. I would imagine that a 20 win season should be good enough for KU to get in the tourney, then they have a chance because of the style of play in the tourney. Station to station basketball, a couple of trips down the court and then a time out. KU has the requisite three players to win, say to the elite 8. Think Northern Iowa, Bucknell, Bradley and (for those of you old enough) UTEP.

Jackalope7 7 years, 2 months ago

I'm picking up what you're putting down. Team doesn't show up against Mid-Majors teams they should have no problems beating. I'm getting a little tired of being on the other side of the biggest upset of the year in the big dance. And if you think I'm full of it, then why does Northern Iowa and VCU own the ESPYs for the biggest upset of the year...two years running now.

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago


No idea they got ESPYs for that ...

well, I seriously doubt that Kansas will have to worry about being upset by a low seeded, mid-major this year.

Mike Stewart 7 years, 2 months ago

This game had nothing to do with those games. Those were great KU teams (except for 2005 when we were limping into the tournament) that choked under pressure and lost to far inferior opponents. There was no pressure tonight. We just aren't that good by our standards.

ironhead80 7 years, 2 months ago

I agree, and hate to say it. This team we saw last nite play is probably the actual team KU will be all year. Coach Self even said the team isn't mature and what players does this point to? These players are supposedly Tyshawn, T Rob, Releford, Elijah and Conner. This team isn't very promising this year. I don't think will even be a sweet 16 team this season.

hawk316 7 years, 2 months ago

Hey, let's give Davidson a little credit here. They played well (though somewhat sloppy in the first half) and hit some big shots. They obviously have some talent.

Having said that, if we had shot the ball just a little better from beyond the arc and from the line, we could have still come away with a win (a point Self made).

We're going to lose a few more this year than we're used to, but this can still be a very good team before all is said and done.

jaymar74 7 years, 2 months ago

North Carolina, Memphis, Illinois, Villanova, ....

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 1 month ago

Heard of Wardell Stephen Curry II?

Doesn't excuse last night's debacle..but for someone who claims to be a seem to show up only when you can make negative comments and cheap shots.

Why is that?

KU_Alumn_2000 7 years, 2 months ago

Self is pissed. I could be wrong...but Connor Teahan seems really slow...and struggles big time on the defensive side of the floor. He really seems like a that's bothersome when thinking about winning games in March.

We could use T-Rels little bro on this team. Kind of wish we would of recruited him now, because if Teahan is all we got for depth in the back's gonna be tough to win tournament games in March.

rwhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

I've been saying it (not here) since the KY game...Teahan is too slow to play with the better D1 athletes (he's consistently a 1/2 step behind and on his man's hip). If he has to be on the floor, then it tells me how bad our bench really is. If he continues to throw up flat three balls, then he doesn't need to be on the floor.

AsadZ 7 years, 2 months ago

Agreed 100%. Tharpe should be playing instead.

dylans 7 years, 2 months ago

I wish Tharpe was ready to play, but he's kinda like a backup quarterback at this point: seems like a good idea until you sees him play. Self has said he isn't ready. Let's not rush things.

AsadZ 7 years, 2 months ago

He has potential so why not get him some mins especially when Teahan is not doing anything and becoming a liability.

leonard 7 years, 2 months ago

"he's consistently a 1/2 step behind"

Sure enough...slow feet can cause that. But not always.

Taylor's blue bayou defense proves that.

ironhead80 7 years, 2 months ago

I have noticed all year long about Teahen as well, he is too slow and he is overrated on his shooting. Teahen needs more time to set up his shot which the defenders give him no time. Thus too slooooooow!

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 1 month ago

He (Tharpe) has the ability but he looks lost... Of course, I might be making the arguement on why he needs to be out there. Self goes w/safe i. e., Morningstar and leaves talent i.e., Ej on the bench.

i.e or i.g.? Any English majors?

Steve Gantz 7 years, 2 months ago

Teahan in my mind was always a novelty act, you know the last couple of guys who never get any PT except in blowouts. Then they come in and everyone goes nuts when the guy scores. He doesn't contribute much else to be honest.

142466 7 years, 2 months ago

Agreed. Morningstar and Reed weren't much better. Their deficiences were less visible because they had much better surrounding talent.

Woody Cragg 7 years, 2 months ago

I agree, he's slow on footwork, & we have no depth. Tharpe needs more minutes and Mother Hubbard can find the cupboard. I though Tyshawn should have spent more time on the pine also. Also I'd give an edge to the Dav coach in use of TO's to keep the crowd factor negated.

Curtis Stutz 7 years, 2 months ago

I was worried about this one because of how poorly KU played against Davidson the last time, but if you are going to list all the losses then I'll throw out Boston U, Richmond, Lehigh, NDSU, Dayton, Portland St, Niagara, So. Illinois, UNLV, UAB, UIC and Pacific that KU beat in the NCAAs under Self. That's 13-4 against non-BCS conference tournament teams when you add in Davidson. 5-3 against the majors. UNC, Memphis, Illinois, Kentucky, Villanova with losses to UCLA, GTech and Michigan St.

Let's all stop buying into the hype that KU has a tougher time with mid-majors than other teams do. KU has just had the "luxury" of playing a lot of them over Self's tenure.

Curtis Stutz 7 years, 2 months ago

okay, obviously I forgot to hit post there for a bit and this was supposed to go under mangino's original comment up top, oops

s6u6r6f 7 years, 2 months ago

Nice statistical perspective. Rock chalk.

dylans 7 years, 2 months ago

Do you remember that stacked team of Roy's loosing to Rhode Island? Still makes me sick. Ultimately only one of the several very good teams each year ends the season with a win. (The NIT doesn't count).

PhogAdvisory 7 years, 2 months ago

Nice stats, phogphan.

For what it's worth, I looked at the numbers for the other "top" basketball programs (Duke, UK, UNC, Mich St.) in the tournament. Against mid-majors, their numbers look like this:

UNC: 8-1 Duke: 10-1 UK: 7-1 Mich. St: 6-4

As opposed to their numbers against "major" teams:

UNC: 16-4 Duke: 9-6 UK: 6-6 Mich St: 10-4


UNC: 24-5 (DNP in 2010) Duke: 19-7 UK: 13-7 (DNP in 2009) Mich St: 16-8

Compared to KU: 18-7

In other words, KU's record is almost identical to Duke's. Both teams went to the tourney every year. Both teams won a Natl Championship one of those years. Duke had a #1 seed 5 times whereas KU had it 4 times. KU has lost more first-round games, but has made it to the Elite Eight more frequently. Duke has had trouble getting past the Sweet 16, losing there 4 times. Duke even lost to 11-seeded VCU in the first round, one of those years.

So yeah, KU has lost to more mid-majors, but we've played quite a few more, too. And when you add all the numbers together, we're not doing particularly any better or worse than many of the other "top" programs, come tourney-time.

Anyway, you can read these numbers a lot of different ways. It's interesting to look at, though.

s6u6r6f 7 years, 2 months ago

Gotta love stats. Well done; thanks. Rock chalk.

142466 7 years, 2 months ago

I have the same thought.

If you look at the historically top 10 programs, they all regularly lose to mid-majors. More frequently than in the past. With all the top talent departing early for the NBA, it's difficult for any school to develop a truly dominating, veteran squad (like the one with LaFrenz and Pierce). Those days are gone. Today's environment is sunny for the mid-majors.

kellerman411 7 years, 2 months ago

It's incredible how intouch Bill Self is with his team. Everything he said after the game is spot on. Especially about how important early possessions are to THIS ku team. We have got to have a quality possession everytime we get the ball. If we don't, anyone and I mean anyone can kick our @ss.

AZHawk72 7 years, 2 months ago

On a night of fairly bad news, this is only the tip of the iceberg. We will be getting drilled repeatedly until we: --convince the guards of the importance of a true assist--that is, it has to be more than just an alley-oop; --quit standing around waiting for the ball and a supposed open shot as if it's an automatic that it's going in; --quit abandoning our man to jam the middle allowing for an easy toss out and subsequent three; --forbid Robinson from reading his news clips, which have, evidently, convinced him that he's a small forward who can dribble; --stop thinking that a turnover is nothing more than a positive, agressive move instead of the consistent momentum killer that it is; --learn the importance of the free throw and how missing the front end of a one-and-one isn't anything important; --remind our bigs that shooting from outside of fifteen feet leads to no rebounders and a fast break down our throats; --act like a team that prides itself in passing, screening, not worrying about stats--just winning; and, --quit acting like a bunch of frosh who resemble deers in the headlights the minute things don't go as planned--news flash: after graduation, life won't either. Show a little of "we've been here before, and we know what to do." We have veterans--act like it.

Thirteen losses here we come.

Ron Buddenhagen 7 years, 2 months ago

I totally agree with this and move, to beat the zone you have to move the ball and your ass. Self keeps telling them this but they must be deaf.

ironhead80 7 years, 2 months ago

Like my DAD always said. You can't fix stupid! I don't see T Rob getting any better. Don't get me wrong, He can go to the basket anytime he wants and when he does it's a power move and he finishes 50% at the basket. He needs to finish up with finesse moves and use his power to score more.

Hank Cross 7 years, 2 months ago

I've been one of the most negative posters around here, but some of the comments on the game blog are truly beyond belief. Does anyone seriously think this team is not going to get 20 wins and get to the dance? Good grief. They'll beat USC and then drop to somewhere between 17-19 - which is where they should be ranked. It's a down/rebuilding year. Some people need to get over it.

I for one like the tougher schedule this year, had the previous two teams ran this type of gauntlet maybe they would've been ready when UNI and VCU punched them in the mouth.

ku_foaf 7 years, 2 months ago

True, but we'd better really hope for no major injuries. If we lost a couple of starters, we'd go downhill fast. We'd still be in the tournament even if that happened.

Beak 7 years, 2 months ago

Yes. 5th seed I say. Its all about perspective.

KStoCAHippie 7 years, 2 months ago

Hate to sound negative myself, but our fans are kind of like our players: a bit spoiled. We (and our team) think that names should just roll over for us because we're "KU"... and we're wrong. If we don't fight for it; rankings, names, tradition and potential mean jack.

"I for one like the tougher schedule this year, had the previous two teams ran this type of gauntlet maybe they would've been ready when UNI and VCU punched them in the mouth."

+100, now that is the absolute truth. I'm hoping that even if this team doesn't perform horribly well throughout this season, it'll teach the younger 4 year players a VERY valuable lesson that they can take with them in future seasons: don't get complacent.

142466 7 years, 2 months ago

Agreed on your scheduling point.

As to our overall record by year's end, we'll likely get no more than 22 wins. Reasonable expectations. Remember that this year's league champion will likely have 4, 5, or 6 losses because everybody has to play 9 league road games.

KU fans will save themselves a lot of stress if they adopt a rational view of this year's squad. Watch for steady improvement, with the knowledge that next year should be better, and two years from now a lot better.

AirCapJay 7 years, 2 months ago

I've been watching KU play since the Ted Owens days, and this game last night was one of the worst I have seen. Self needs to get a sports psychiatrist on the team to mentally get these guys ready every game.

kranny 7 years, 2 months ago

Bill needs to simply restock the talent. We lost 3 players to the NBA last year and one may make an NBA team and one playing professionally in Europe. We'll need to sit back and enjoy as much of the rebuilding process as we can. We have some good talent coming in the next year with EJ, Tharpe and the ineligibles coming back and hopefully TRobb. Every coach will have a down year occasionally; N. Carolina, Duke, Cuse, they all have down years. 2014 will be a final four year. We NEED a really good scoring guard who can penetrate with crazy mad skills ala Kyrie Irving.

John Boyle 7 years, 2 months ago

TRob isn't coming back. He is going to the NBA to earn a check to take care of his family (little sister). Self has said as much in interviews this year.

kranny 7 years, 2 months ago

I figured as much, but it's nice to dream.

Dan Harris 7 years, 2 months ago

Please I went to KU from 79-83 and I saw some truly bad games! Everybody needs to get off their high horse and realize that this will be a down year by Kansas standards. I still think we will show improvement as the year goes on but we will get beat another 6 or 7 times, but we'll still make the dance as a 4 or 5 seed! Everybody take a chill pill and relax!

Ludwig Supraphonic 7 years, 2 months ago

Sadly, my memory is still clear about the end of the Owen's era. It was hard to get friends to walk from Olin Templin in the slush to watch a .500 team in a half-filled, low-energy Allen. Not an apt comparison.

Dan Harris 7 years, 2 months ago

I too remember being able to get a seat for any game I wanted rather easily, even Mizzu and K-State!

Dan Harris 7 years, 2 months ago

I too remember being able to get a seat for any game I wanted rather easily, even Mizzu and K-State!

tdscpa 7 years, 2 months ago

But it was easier to get a good seat!

I, too walked down the hill from Templin in 64-65, and across the hill from the NE in 65-67, and down from Stauffer Place in 67-68.

Scott MacWilliams 7 years, 2 months ago

+1, Oxcal.

Come on, people, be realistic. This team is shorthanded compared to the full boats we've had the last few years. But to think that Self and crew won't get things going the right way, gimme a break!!
We'll be playing in March, and probably a lot longer than most people will plan on...


Brad Avery 7 years, 2 months ago

18-31 from the free throw line. Terrible. That lost the game by itself.

blackhawkjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

A sharp mid-major team defeating a Bill Self-coached squad? I'll believe it when I see it. OUr current problems started with Xavier and Selby - I'm hoping that we've learned from those debacles.

Self will help the team rebound, but it would be hiding your head in the sand to state that KU has a recurring problem in beating these types of teams.

floridajayhawks 7 years, 2 months ago

Didn't get to watch the game last night, but was not that surprised that they lost. This team is not disciplined and lacks maturity like Coach Self stated. I don't blame him, he is a great coach and gets his teams ready per X's and O's. He can't get into their heads and get them mentally ready, that's up to the players. The guard play on this team is terrible.

JuanValdez 7 years, 2 months ago

Self is angry because the team lost the game. However this game was lost in the recruiting trail a long time ago. No sense getting angry with our players. They are trying hard. They are just not that good.

Karen Mansfield-Stewart 7 years, 2 months ago

+1. Not one McDonald's All American. This will be a pretty good team, but far from a NC contender.

Kevin Kunde 7 years, 2 months ago

Recruiting trail? 11th ranked Kansas in a 'DOWN' year with a recruiting class that was ultimately put together with our hands tied behind our back not knowing what our junior class was going to do. The Morris twins stay along with Selby and we would be right on track with a 'UP' year this season.

142466 7 years, 2 months ago

We would have been a dominating team. Sadly for college BB fans, the NBA is preventing NCAA teams from ever developing dominating, experienced college teams.

Sam Brockert 7 years, 2 months ago

That was an incredibly uninformed, ridiculous comment.

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

It's up to the players to execute, and while I will agree that we are less talented than in some years past, what we witnessed last night was not a matter of players "trying hard and just not being good enough".

Plus, if not for an 11th-hour rash of ineligibility, this team has EXACTLY what it's missing: 2-3 guys in the middle three spots in the lineup that can come off the bench and provide short bursts of minutes.

But without McLemore, Traylor and Anderson, the strain being placed on this team in terms of minutes is a very real problem.

ironhead80 7 years, 2 months ago

I understand what your saying, but if your going that route, you can say our guys didn't stay for there junior or senior years either.Also, soph. year for that matter?

55jayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Self is not the problem, this is a weak team that cannot play consistently. They looked tired, and really slow last night. They missed too many free throws and to be frank, Davidson was a better team last night and probably most of the time if they played KU every other week. We knew this was a young lean team and we will just have to wait until we get some of the new talent next year that will hopefully will play more consistently and not stand around while the other team runs by them and scores with players who were not defensed at all.

squawkhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

It just means Self needs to actually coach and motivate and not just play x's and o's. It is easy to win when you consistently get top recruits. Having a down year or two exposes a lot of issues besides lack of talent.

AsadZ 7 years, 2 months ago

I agree that the team looked tired. But why, they had a 9 day break. I agree that coaches do not play but its upto coaching staff to have a game plan, make adjustments in the game and get the team ready to play. Our coaching staff failed in these regard last night.

hawkshot 7 years, 2 months ago

I've watched the World's dumbest bank robbers, drivers, and dumbest hillbillies. Now I've watched the World's dumbest basketball team. Was that Turner Gill and the football team out there trying to play basketball?

Matt Bowers 7 years, 2 months ago

Actually, it is an upset. Like KU beating OSU was an upset. Losing to these teams is tiring.

Rock Chalk

AsadZ 7 years, 2 months ago

From the beginning this game had VCU/UNI written all over it. HCBS was certainly outcoached in this game. He needs to acknowledge it. I don't understand why Teahan continues to get so much PT instead of Nadir. Yeah he is a red shirt 5th year senior but he is not a very good defender, he only brings outside shooting, and on a cold night he is a liability. It appears to me that he is a streaky shooter, only good within friendly atmosphere of AFH. He made so many mistakes but coach continued to play him while Nadir was put on bench after one mistake.

This is one area I have a beef with HCBS. He needs to give more PT to Nadir and KY and let them play through their mistakes so they are better prepared for Feb/March. At least they will be more confident.

Coach has acknowledged that depth is a problem so why not develop it. Playing Teahan is not going to solve the problem.

ccarp 7 years, 2 months ago

Nadir-in-the-headlights :-) he'll get over it, but it is kind of fitting.

hawkshot 7 years, 2 months ago

Plays just like TT does, after 4 years.

AsadZ 7 years, 2 months ago

He is better than Teahan and he has potential. Teahan is lost case. Even Kansas kids on davidson looked so much better than Teahan. Tharpe's potential will not be developed unless he gets meaningful PT.

142466 7 years, 2 months ago

Thank you, Connor Teahan for your contributions to the team. You are a quaility practice opponent and a 3 point game threat, but expect to enter an actual game only if the team desperately needs several quick trifectas. That should be his role. This season should be primarily about developing young talent, something that Teahan never will be.

rockchalkchalkin23 7 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, solomon, and that's so easy to do sitting on the sideline.

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't understand why Teahan continues to get so much PT instead of Nadir.

Then you didn't see any of the three minutes Naadir played last night.

AsadZ 7 years, 2 months ago

Did Teahan do anything in all his mins? What did he do except being a liability on D and constantly missing shots, and making stupid fouls. You are giving 3 mins to your star recruiter who has potential. This is one area IMP where HCBS is failing. Look at Duke game how coach K brought in a sub par player and let him play. Ultimately he made the shot and won the game for him.

Bville Hawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Teahan didn't do much in his mins last night, but he DOES create extra possessions, more than any other guard on our team. While Elijah and Releford are watching the ball after another junk 3 point shot go up, Teahan is often times in the lane going for offensive rebounds or tipping a rebound out.

railer20 7 years, 2 months ago

This is going to happen all year...for some reason these guys get up for big games and play bad against inferior opponents. I know we got beat by Duke and Kentucky, but the guys played with intensity those games as well as Georgetown, UCLA, and Ohio St. It's when the little guys come to town that we jack around all game and it's going to cost us a Big XII title I have a feeling. This team will play to the level of its competition instead of just going full speed all year (and with Teahan, thats not very fast).

142466 7 years, 2 months ago

Interesting point. Your theory is often used to explain a strong team's inability to soundly beat inferior opponents. It can be, though, that at team perceived by most to be strong is, in fact, only slightly better than average. That's this year's KU team.

I've observed KU basketball for over 60 years. KU is and always has been one of the top 3 all-time winningest NCAA programs. That fact is uttered over and over, by coaches, broadcasters, and others.

Now I'm going to say some things that are anathema to many.

That hymm of praise to KU is also a burden. During the last 60 years I have observed several stretches during which we underachieved because the players thought that just wearing the Kansas uniform automatically annointed them. And there have been other stretches in those 60 years in which our team failed to meet expectations of a top 3 program, simply due to insufficient talent.

Remember, too, that many, many of our victories over that 60 year stretch occured in a weak basketball league. The Big 8 always was a strong FB league and weak in BB. The phrase "Big 2 and Little 6" applied even more to BB than it did to FB. Also, during at least the first 2/3 of our basketball history, KU or KSU had a fairly easy route to the Final Four. Just win the league, then get 2 victories in the NCAA tournament and we were in. And the 2 NCAA victories always occured in the weak Midwestern Regional.

N.C., Duke, and Kentucky, on the other hand, during that long stretch of time in which the NCAA's 4 Regionals were geographically based, always had a much more difficult path to the Final Four. In those days only league winners were invited to the dance. N.C. and Duke played in a vastly superior league. And all three, the Heels, Devils, and Wildcats played in regionals that were always stronger than the Midwestern Regional.

My point is that during a long stretch of KU's BB history our victories and Final Four appearances were more easily attained than those of teams to the East. That is still true regarding league play. No longer true in March Madness. Facts are facts.

So KU has always been hard pressed to keep pace with the UK and NC, and also with UCLA and Duke. Maybe Indiana and Louisville, too. The fact that we've come pretty close to doing it ever since Larry Brown landed in Lawrence is satisfying. But always bear in mind that KU must try harder, in recruiting and in game day performance, than the other 2 all-time winners.

Benjamin Piehler 7 years, 2 months ago

I was at the game; pretty frustrating. I lethargically assumed we would scrape by in this one, and apparently so did the team. Bill Self typically runs a good program, but there appears to be a formula to beating him... its a formula that doesn't win national championships, so it's more appealing for the "mid-majors".

Basically, its double team in the paint, watch for the HCBS trademarked lob pass to the big guy and let KU take outside shots. On the other side of the ball, a bill self team runs man defense always, so screens for 3 point shooters is "effective". Just keep to the defensive plan and keep jacking the threes, and you've got a shot against a bill self team. You might only win 2 out of 10 games vs a HCBS team when you live and die by the 3 pointer like this, which is why its a mid-major strategy... but we seem to lose at least one game a year in this fashion, too often in March. If we don't get better at perimeter defense, a good team playing 4 guards, like Mizzou, will shoot our lights out.

Oh also, the crowd was awful... pretty full house at the sprint center and you could hear a pin drop for most of the game. It got loud with about 3 minutes to go out of desperation, but all in all it was a really bad showing for us KC fans. Anyway, Rock Chalk.

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

"You might only win 2 out of 10 games vs a HCBS team when you live and die by the 3 pointer like this, which is why its a mid-major strategy"

Excellent point. I think many KU fans lose sight of this.

It's easy to gameplan and coach in a general sense for this strategy, which is why KU wins 80% of games like this. But on an individual game level, when a team is willing to live and die by the three, there are sometimes they are just going to "live", and there's not much you can do about it.

Sure, we let them get a couple of open looks in the first half, and one terrible missed assignment on a fastbreak in the first half, but most of the three pointers Davidson was taking and making were guarded--for example, the shot from McCochran over Thomas Robinson with 2 seconds on the shot clock. I mean... what in the ever-loving hell?

The three-pointer is an exciting component to basketball, but there's a reason it's the "great equalizer". If, as a mid-major, you are willing to take 30+ three-point shots in a game, as long as you can make a very mediocre percentage (say... 33%), you are going to hang in a game with anyone, and if some of those made shots come in key moments, like when you've been outplayed on a given possession and look like you are going to spend an entire 35-second clock and come away with nothing, you are going to have the opportunity to win the game.

The fact that KU had it's worst shooting night of the season compounds the problem.

JakeBarnes 7 years, 2 months ago

Too bad Travis Releford doesn't play with ability similar to his analysis of the game.

VaJay 7 years, 2 months ago

He's talking about how they PLAYED last night. Not how they are TALENT-wise. He will get them to play on a higher level. He always does!

All you negative posters out there - lighten up!! Yes, we're not going to be quite as good & we're going to have a few more losses - but the sky is falling crap needs to stop.

rockchalkchalkin23 7 years, 2 months ago

Better coached without question IrishCharlie

Jim Jackson 7 years, 2 months ago

Any update ok Jakarr Sampson? Kid who decommitted from St.Johns? We could definitely use him for next year. On a side note, what is Naadir Tharpe doing on the court? Kid is tiny in stature and build and just looks lost out there. Good grief can't wait till next year. Go 'Hawks!

Michael Luby 7 years, 2 months ago

This is a tough loss to swallow for sure. But to bash our head coach and call for his dismissal after our less than stellar season so far? See previous Keegan article's comments. Its just rediculous. Did you all forget how badly KU beat UNC and Memphis in 08? Its only been 3 years guys. This season we will see alot of what just happened. True fans will realize this and stick with them no matter what. There is a better than average chance our guys wont win the conference this year if they continue playing like they are. Shrug Oh well, Ive accepted it. Every single one of the nation's top programs ( UNC, DUKE, UK, UCLA, UCONN) every single one has gone through less than stellar seasons and rebounded in the next one in a major way. Didnt UNC and UK out right miss the NCAA tourney in '10? When was the last time KU has missed the big dance? If Im not mistaken, they have the record for consecutive appearances. I dont see them missing it this year. My point is, if youve missed it, KU will have "bad seasons" by our higher than normal standards but, they will always not be very far from turning it around the next season.

kgreg01 7 years, 2 months ago

Like. But did UK really miss the tourney with Wall and Co. in 2010?

Benjamin Piehler 7 years, 2 months ago

nobody ever said that, nor would they, so the only person you are quoting is yourself.

Bville Hawk 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't see what is wrong with a confident attitude or approach? The same argument can be made for teams that take a passive approach.

rockchalkchalkin23 7 years, 2 months ago

Seriously, you think the Morris bro's attitudes were a confidence thing? Ever tried to play pick-up games on a court that they wanted?

Michael Luby 7 years, 2 months ago

I do have to bash one thing I saw. To put it lightly, in the last 2 min of the game, there was a defensive break down where ALL 5 KU players were grouped together up at the top of the key and the ball got tossed to the left side for a WIDE OPEN 3 which pretty much iced the game. This team is not that good. That is a fact. BUT, I firmly believe they will get better, even if we have to wait until next year.

KansasComet 7 years, 2 months ago

My belief is that if you are in the rotation, meaning you are one of the top eight players on the team that has "KANSAS" on the front of the jersey, then you should be an exceptional basketball player. This is supposed to be a place where the top players in the nation come, and that goes all the way back to the days of Wilt. Too much of this "Rudy" crap going on. Teahan is a role player and nothing more. No offense to the kid, and I do like him, but he is not good enough for starters minutes. He is a great spot up shooter, when we are winning. However in the clutch, he is not very good, just being honest. Coach Self needs to let the best players play.

AzNHawk 7 years, 2 months ago

OMG! The sky is falling! KU Lost to Davidson and now people probably wanna call for Self's head. Oh no! Us KU fans arent going to be spoiled with anymore wins because this team cant play consistently. What are we to do? Relax people!!!!

I kind of sensed this play and was iffy about the team coming into the season because we had lost alot of depth and alot of newcomers with little to no experience were coming in. Keep your seat belt on and your hands and feet inside the car because it's going to be a wild ride!!

Mike Barnhart 7 years, 2 months ago

S T U P I D!

This team of 3 star recruits doesn't have the basketball IQ to compete every time out. When focused, they're pretty good but they're only able to focus from "time to time!" It's gonna' be a 30 game roller coaster!

studio 7 years, 2 months ago

Did anyone else notice while "weaving", the backcourt was so intent on executing the pattern they were oblivious to the defensive reaction to the (just going through the) motion? I'm wondering if either the theory of the success of any particular team set just hasn't developed into a tool for that improvisation required by the participants' natural talent or if these sets have been overly scouted and offer no more surprise to the mid major studious defenders. If these Jayhawks want to put a positive stamp on this opportunity, they (staff and players) will "get it" and perform with deserved confidence every play. Focus 24.

southwindjay 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't buy this mid-major curse thing. I saw a lot of guys playing very lazy and carelessly last night. Where is the help for T-Rob, really. I can't count how many time some "un-named" guard drove in and forced a shot with Robinson right there.

Hammertoe 7 years, 2 months ago

Bill Self is one of the top 5 coaches in the game. How many other colleges would love to have him as head coach? Articulate, Intelligent, Rational....

KU loses to mid majors because they go into those games thinking they are better than the other team. "David vs Goliath"

tical523 7 years, 2 months ago

Agree, but who is supposed to get that "david vs goliath" thought out of their head? Players or coaches, just curious what you think? Probably both I guess, it is definitely tough to watch no matter what. Assuming we will win sucks and assumption is the mother of all fu$! ups.

karken1992 7 years, 2 months ago

Coach can only do so much. One of Self's best attributes is the way he constantly talks his teams down. Name once that you have ever heard him say he has a great team. He just now has started saying the 08 team was "pretty" good. I mean the guy spent 5 minutes at Late Night telling fans the team was not very good and begging them to please be patient.

tical523 7 years, 2 months ago

It is hard to take when you hear your head coach say "this team is not very mature", when we are lead by a senior point guard and a junior all-american power forward. I know there is more to it but I never see Taylor or Robinson get the team huddled together to create greater focus or effort. . . . again it seemed like our players simply thought we would eventually win because our jersey says KANSAS on the front. Just unbelievable to see some of the wide open three's Davidson had and then the careless turnovers we would give up. I guess I am just going to have to relax a little more and try to enjoy the process this year.

tical523 7 years, 2 months ago

ALSO, does EJ think he is our token, nonathletic guard who can only shoot open threes to contribute offensively? Did he not get the feeling that he could take his man off the dribble ANYTIME he wanted to, which would have created opportunities in the paint for himself and the bigs! He drove a couple times with ease which broke down the defense and good things happened. We all know you can shoot the three but when they are not falling you are too talented to just try and shoot your way out of it, break the defense down and create!!!!!

Bville Hawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Elijah Johnson and his 40' vertical waste so many possessions standing outside the 3 point line waiting to jack up another 3 pointer, and much like Xavier Henry, our most athletic guard is choosing to be the easiest guy on the floor to defend; Almost 50% of EJ's shots this year have been 3 pointers! The only player on the team that could justify that many 3's is Teahan. This team's inability to score is a direct result of its non-aggressive guard play. Less three point attempts and MORE free throw attempts, Guards!

Maracas 7 years, 2 months ago

Let's face it. KU has a pretty crappy team this year. We haven't recruited worth a crap recently.

Brian Leiker 7 years, 2 months ago

This is an average team. This is unacceptable at KU. I would fully expect one of either radar ears or porn stache to be replaced by a young vibrant recruiter. Next year is going to be brutal without Robinson.

notigers4me 7 years, 2 months ago

Whats with having our Bigs guarding out front instead of in the paint? None of our guys are button down defenders. It seems that a Bill Self coached team always has trouble guarding the 3.

Sam Brockert 7 years, 2 months ago

Oh my freaking lord... Trying to read some of these comments is painful. You people act like the freaking sky is falling. There is not ONE team IN THE NATION, that does not experience losses like this OR up and down seasons like this. They will be just fine. This whole "Mid-Major" curse crap is getting tiring too...Give it a freaking rest. The negative posters sound SO spoiled... Anyone remember the 98-99 squad?

Jim Jackson 7 years, 2 months ago

I completely agree. I was hoping we would get a stud recruiter on staff. Unfortunately, Norm Roberts went to Florida. Sucks for us because Townsend and Dooley are not getting it done. Wow

Chris Shaw 7 years, 2 months ago

Good thing Brannen Greene just committed and Andrew White committed last month. Looks like this post is already obsolete.

RockCaCO3 7 years, 2 months ago

These "Mid-Major" and "David vs Goliath" labels are getting tiresome. Just because their university doesnt have 30+ thousand students, doesnt mean they cant have competitive basketball (any sport) teams. Davidson looked pretty good last night. And we didnt.

tom123kufan 7 years, 2 months ago

It has been a rough 2 years of recruiting and the good old NBA hasn't helped us. I feel to make the scenario of keeping 5 star guys coming in while losing some to the NBA the team must make deep runs in the tournament. Not losing to mid majors year after year after year. The tournament is the big stage that all eyes are watching and many decisions are made off of that 2 weeks. Its not the place to stub your toe over and over again. We are not that great this year. Face it and play freak'n defense like your life depends on it. I don't like our swagger at times. It's like hey get out of our way..even when we are don by 10! Come on guys this will be a solid year when you learn to listen to coach and play sound basketball. Take the head phones off and wake up!

hawkshot 7 years, 2 months ago

We just got beat by a team without 4 and 5 star recruits.

Lin Rahardja 7 years, 2 months ago

Davidson played scrappy basketball, played tough, fouled a lot, disrupted our offense, and we didn't make enough free throws. They outplayed us every time we caught up, stretched the lead back to 5 or 6, they deserved to win.

AsadZ 7 years, 2 months ago

In addition, while I am not calling for his head, I love the guy, but HCBS got outcoached yesterday.

HawkKlaw 7 years, 2 months ago

The sky is falling...again!

The comments here make me chuckle. Don't get me wrong - KU should have won the game yesterday. There's plenty of blame to go around. But this year's KU team is going to have many low points. Losing to Davidson and getting completely slaughtered by UK are the two low points so far. There will be more.

Yet, this year's team did beat the no. 2 team in the country (with a hampered Tyshawn). And this KU team played Duke competitively to the final buzzer.

That's how it is going to be this year. This team is going to struggle to keep from losing more than 8 games in the regular season. It's a rare position to be in, but this year we'll be considered the underdogs in a lot of match ups.

Bill Self is one of the greatest coaches in college basketball. That said, he definitely shoulders some of the blame for this loss. I still wouldn't want any other coach at Kansas though. I would hate to be an employee working for some of you bad day and you're fired! Oh, I know, I know. "Self can't beat mid-majors. VCU, Bradley, Bucknell! Rabble, rabble!!!" Believe what you want. Good luck finding a better coach than Bill Self. My main concern is that Self called his own team "not that good." This worries me a lot, though it doesn't surprise me that he said it. It's the truth and Bill Self is not known for sugar coating anything. This year's team, by KU standards, is just not that good right now. That could change by the end of the year though.

This whole season turnovers have been our downfall. If we can't cut down on those, we will certainly lose more than 8 games in the regular season. TT made this game unbearable to watch. He was trying to do too much and ended up making silly turnovers. That was an instance where I would have liked to see Naadir Tharpe get a shot at leading the team. It just goes to show that this year, KU will go as as far as TT can take them. TRob can have the most epic night of his career, but if TT isn't playing well KU will lose.

And every time we lose, the sky will fall again. Squawk!

hawkshot 7 years, 2 months ago

HCBS says "This team isn't that good". This sounds like a line from Bonnieball. It's not my fault, it's the players.

kufankam 7 years, 2 months ago

HCBS is one of the winningest coaches in the game today and you are likening him to BB?!?!? You sir are crazy!

“To me, this is what I really think, and this could be coaching, this could be a lot of things, so I’m not putting the blame on the players,” Self said. “I’m not putting the blame on really anybody. But the reality of it is, depth is such a great thing. But depth isn’t great because of injuries, and depth isn’t great because of foul problems. Depth is great because when guys don’t play the way you want them to, they don’t have to play. That’s why depth is great. Everybody who says other things, no, that’s it.”

hawkshot 7 years, 2 months ago

Read this whole article and tell me agin that he didn't blame the players..It was because he didn't have depth so he couldn't bench them, sounds like he just blamed the players to me. I'm not putting the blame on really anybody, and that includes himself. I'm just saying it sounded like a BBall statement to me, not my fault.

kufankam 7 years, 2 months ago

read the qoute that came directly from HIS mouth... an article can be shaped in many ways and can be misleading. however, a DIRECT quote is straight outta his mouth. he acknowledges in his very first sentence that it is on him. you are reaching.

hawkshot 7 years, 2 months ago

The DIRECT quote says it could be coaching. What part of could implies that he aknowledges that it was on him. I think you are reaching. You read it how you want to and I'll read it how I want to. I'm done!

kufankam 7 years, 2 months ago

haha! so we are 12 now... well, i'm rubber, you're glue - anything you say bounces of me and sticks to you.

" I’m not putting the blame on the players,” Self said.

do you know how to read?

hawkshot 7 years, 2 months ago

when guys don't play the way you want them to, they don't have to play. Sounds to me that he is putting some bame on them for not playing the way he wants them to. I did'nt just read that statement that you keep referring to. I do know how to read, I also know how to analyze the rest of the statement, which to me contradicts the original statement. I won't reduce myself to childish comments.

kufankam 7 years, 1 month ago

You can't reward a W to someone who spells again and blame "agin" and "bame":.. But hey, you middle schoolers stick together! I cannot fathom how anyone likens Bill Self to Bonnie Henrickson... But then again, middle schoolers are still developing the "common sense" portion of the brain.

imzcount 7 years, 2 months ago

Actually we can't help it if we have the least talented squad since Self came to Kansas

Robert Brock 7 years, 2 months ago

KU brought a lot of dumb to a smart game.

kufankam 7 years, 2 months ago

everyone that is calling for teahan to sit and play "more talented" players need to understand something. sometimes you have to play the "less talented" kid because he actually knows you system and that enables the other 4 players to run that system and be effective. when you put in a "talented" that does not have a good grasp on the system and gets lost, it clusters everything up and your other four will not be able to do the things that have made them successful. self's offense is not a "set based" play type of offense, rather it is a rules/principals type of setup. it would be easy to plug guys like tharpe in there if you running set plays and he memorized them. however, in self's system, you have to read and react based on spacing and filling certain spots. therefore, if a player like tharpe (which will probably be my fav jayhawk as i love true minded pg's) that has not had the experience on when to go where based on where the ball is at in situations, it clusters EVERYTHING up. i think that is why you are seeing a 5th year senior playing over a kid that was in HS last year. that is, i think, the main reason you rarely see young gaurds play early AND play well under self. think of chalmers's struggles, russrob's, tyshawn's, elijah's... sherron is really the only one that came in and played early with any sort of success. all the others needed to get experience in the system. give it time, and the younger guys will "get it" and we will enjoy watching them!

tobyfoo 7 years, 2 months ago

I love Bill Self and there is no other coach I would rather have. But something is wrong in the way he prepares for Mid majors. It happens with team after team, so it is a Bill Self problem. It's the strangest thing I've seen. What is it about Mid Majors? Keep up the great work Bill, but we need to get to the bottom of this. It has to be a mental thing, and something in the way he prepares the team for those games.


Chris Shaw 7 years, 2 months ago

Okay Ladies and Gents, I'll be honest, this loss ticks me off more than any in recent memory. We all know about what has happened in the past so no reason to bring up those schools and teams that KU has lost to. What irritates me is that "Everybody" knows about it including the current players and still nothing has changed. I mean, we were constantly reminded of the 2008 game the past week leading up to this game.

Bill Self said so himself after the VCU loss that something needed to change. In these type of slow down, methodical, grind it out games where every possession is key................I don't see any changing going on and I'll be quite frank..................that has everything to do with HCBS. Bill Self said so himself in this article,

“They controlled the game. They whipped us,” Self said. “I thought we had a good, spirited workout today and pretty decent practice yesterday. I thought we’d be ready to play, but we weren’t.”

What's even more annoying is that Self explains that this team "This team is not that good". The problem is not in the team IMHO. If you go back and look at the backcourt of Mario Chalmers, Sherron Collins, and Russell Robinson. They struggled in a 3 point win against Southern Illinois and a 2 point win against Davidson. With that said, I do not think it's the players that are showing this consistent trend against the likes of these "Mid-Majors". I think it's the system, game planning, and the inability to adjust during the game by the staff and head coach.

The big problem I have is not that these Mid-Majors aren't good because they are really really good. We as fans, and I'm one of the few who is on the other side of the fence on this, don't give teams like Bucknell, Bradley, Davidson, Nevada, Richmond, UNI, VCU, etc enough credit when those teams are good in a given year.

I don't really paticularly care for the title of this article because it insinuates that Davidson isn't very good and that just isn't true. What many of us have to understand is that Mckillop has been planning for this team Davidson team since the 2008 season ended and this Davidson team is preparing for a big run if not this year, next year with all juniors and seniors and a nice piece in the Olathe kid as he gets better.

With that said, he problem I have is that Bill Self has allowed these squads that have lessor athletic talent to hang around the ball game and dictate tempo. He said it in the quote above. It's consistent in every game that has been similar to this one over his tenure. I seriously thought I was watching the exact same games as I did in 2007 against Southern Illinois, 2008 against Davidson and 2010 against UNI and 2011 against VCU. Seriously, what has changed in the game plan and the decision making during the game?


Chris Shaw 7 years, 2 months ago

Here is a theory I have:

Bill Self prides himself on discipline and running the perfect offense. I think that is great when you're playing a team that is athletically gifted vs athletically gifted squads which most of the teams in the Big 12 and most that are in a BCS conference across the country.

The problem is....what happens when you have a lessor athletic team, but it has a lot of experience, has been through the grind, is skilled, can shoot, values the basketball on each possession, and has an extremely high basketall IQ throughout the team? What do you do to a team like that? IMO, you speed them up and pressure them as much as possible and make that squad as uncomfortable as possible.

Kids who have been through the grind experience wise and that are well coached by guys like Brad Stevens and Mckillop know they have less room for error when playing the "Big Boys". I mean, why do you think Davidson had zero turnovers in the second half. Davidson never felt threatened in the second half. They were comfortable in running their sets.

1) Play of the game IMO was when KU was down 57-55 and I believe TT was at the free throw line. Tyshawn missed the first FT which is fine, but he made the second FT. I'm going to need somebody to help me out here because I'm scratching my head trying to figure out you lose one of Davidson's best shooters in the corner in transition off a made FT? Instead of being down 1 point preparing for a defensive stop...............KU didn't even get the opportunity beause of bad communication and bad leadership and found themselves down 60-56 instead. Unbelievable!

2) Dictate Pace!!!!!!!: How many more times am I going to see a Bill Self team play to the speed and pace of a Davidson, Southern Illinois, UNI, VCU, Bradley, Bucknell, Nevada, Cornell, North Dakota State. Mind Boggling!

Look, there is no doubt that KU came out sluggish tonight, but............DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Get the players out of their routine, change the pace, press, do something full court that gets Davidson and their lessor athletic team out of rhythm.

The most annoying thing about all these losses is that you can always find KU walking the ball up the court with less than 5 minutes to go in the game.

3) Defending the 3: I have never seen a team defend the 3 more poorly than these guys in probably 20 years. How many times are these guys going to go under the screen or just completely lose their man in transition?

I know going over screens is tough and is a lot of work, but it's got to be done. Also, somebody is going to have to step up and be a leader on this team. I'm not sure who it's going to be, but somebody has got to start talking and getting the team in sync defensively. To be honest, I don't think it's T-Rob's job to be that leader because he is doing everything he can and plus I am of the old school that the team goes where it's point guard takes you.

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

There is a fundamental flaw in your analysis.

Last night was not a "slow down the tempo and grind it out" game. I'm pretty sure Jesse reported at halftime that this game was one of the fastest paced, in terms of possessions, that KU had played all year.

KU's Adjusted Tempo (pace) actually went up, albeit slightly, after last night's stats were incorporated onto

Last night's game was like VCU, who also said "let's run and gun and we'll plan to hitch our wagon to how well we shoot from the outside". I think these mid-major teams (and coaches) are starting to recognize that grinding it out isn't the way to pull an upset on a Bill Self team because grind-it-out basketball is Self's bread and butter.

The conventional wisdom is that grinding it out reduces the number of possessions in a game, and therefore reduces the number of chances for the disparity in talent between two teams to stratify. For example, I have no chance of beating Michael Jordan in a game of one-on-one, but my chances are a hell of a lot better playing one possession than 10. I might get a lucky steal and/or basket on one possession, but I would get blasted over the other nine possessions.

Self's teams have shown over the years, the ability to grind it out and pull the victory out in the end on many occasion. In fact, I would hazard a guess that most of the mid-majors that have been successful in bringing one of Bill Self's Kansas teams down have done so, not by grinding it out, but by trying to push the pace and launch as many three-pointers as possible. Obviously I don't have any hard data to back this up.

rwhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

That play you referred to... When the timeout was called afterward, HCBS looked at TT and said "That was your fault." (You can read his lips, its pretty clear). Then they showed a replay and it looks like TT is looking to pick up EJ man bringing the ball down the court and get's confused and doesn't see his man in the corner until its too late.

Mike Barnhart 7 years, 2 months ago

Keep it succinct dude. Who reads that much? You're more prolific than James Patterson & Steven King!

Chris Shaw 7 years, 2 months ago

I completely disagree Marchphog88. There is a big difference IMO between Pace and tempo vs what a stat sheets will say about your shot attempts per game. Teams who dictate tempo like Davidson did last night start the tempo with defense regardless of how many shot attempts their opponent puts up. As the game progresses they control that tempo by controlling the tempo with their offensive efficiency.

Davidson scored 18 points in the last 4 minutes of the game. Davidson outscored KU 20-18 in the final 5:17 of the game. Of course KU's adjusted tempo went up during the second part of the game. They were behind! That's what happens with most teams of KU's caliber in the later stages of a game like that.

If you take the first 35 minutes of that game, that is exactly what Davidson wanted a slowed, methodical, posession type game and that is exactly what they got. The score was 33-32 at halftime

Let's make some comparisons:

KU vs Davidson 2011- KU 25-62 FG and 6-23 from 3 point range

KU vs VCU 2011- KU 22-62 FG and 2-21 from 3 point range

KU vs UNI 2010- 24-54 FG and 6-23 from 3 point range

MarchPhogg, I think you're confusing with the number of FG attempts by the opponent from behind the 3 point arc as a reason for tempo to have been sped up. So what if they jacked up 33 attempts last night? That's apart of their offense as well as the other Mid-Majors who have defeated KU recently.

Where KU is getting in trouble is that Davidson, UNI, and VCU are forcing KU out their rhythm and causing them to jack up 3 point shots at alarming inconsistent rate, which supposedly is not to be apart of the Hi-Lo offense. Because ofthis Davidson was able to force bad shots from KU and thus dictate the tempo offensively from their defensive performance. When you get a great defensive stop or a couple of stops in a row there is no reason to hurry. That is why Davidson made the necessary and right adjustments in the second half.

Your understanding of Pace and Tempo might differ from mine, but IMO that was a Grind it out game last night because of the possession factor and Davidson controlled every aspect of it.

rockchalkchalkin23 7 years, 2 months ago

+100 BigManU/kushaw. Very nice analysis and rebuttal to back it up.

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

I am not confusing tempo with number of 3-point FG attempts. My understanding and usage of the term "tempo" (or pace) is based on a very simple statistic: possessions per game. That simple statistic is a staple in the kind of advanced regression analysis that Ken Pomeroy does on his site,

The reason it is used so heavily is because the only way to compare teams like Wisconsin (the slowest-paced team in D-1 basketball this year) to teams like UNC (the 3rd-fastest paced team in D-1 basketball this year) is to normalize for the number of possessions.

If you compare Wisconsin to UNC on straight up scoring and scoring defense, there will be no comparison. Wisconsin will allow fewer points per game than UNC, even if UNC is the better defensive team, because they play so many fewer possessions in a game than UNC.

I'm not really sure how to respond to your argument, because you didn't really address mine. It's a fact that last night was not a slow-paced game. Davidson didn't do what teams typically do to grind out a game and walk the ball up court, take a large chunk of the shot clock and run back on defense rather than sending guys to crash the offensive boards. They ran with the ball, took shots early and often in the shot clock, and crashed the offensive glass like crazy. They were playing an up-tempo style. This is a statistical fact.

I'm glad you brought up the halftime score, because that is a perfect illustration of the need for the tempo statistic. A score, without the context of how many shots it took to get to that score, is completely non-illustrative of game pace. It was only 33-32 at half, but that wasn't because the game was being played slowly, it was because the two teams were shooting horrendous percentages and had to take a ton of shots to score 30-something points.

You might find this read interesting:

He computes "tempo" with this formula:

Possessions = FGA-OR+TO+.475*FTA

Or... FG attempted - offensive rebounds + turnovers + .475 x FT attempted.

It has nothing to do with the types of shots a team is getting, or the actual score. It's all about scoring opportunities. And there were a ton in the KU/Davidson game. But when neither team can get their shooting percentage much past 40%, that is going to result in a low-scoring half. The final score was high because the teams started hitting shots and reducing turnovers, not because the actual pace quickened.

SDSurferFan 7 years, 2 months ago

Felt like I was watching a bad KU tourney game.

RockCaCO3 7 years, 2 months ago

We've got that behind us now, so no worries in the tourney.

AsadZ 7 years, 2 months ago

Exactly felt like UNI/VCU game and what's more frustruating is that KU was not able to adjust in 2nd half, got outcoached

Chris Shaw 7 years, 2 months ago

What's amazing is that it felt just like the 2007 Southern Illinois game and the 2008 Davidson game and KU won both of those games by a total of 5 points.

That's my whole point above win or lose. If it's going to be a possession game and the trends in these losses certainly show that, why would you even try to allow the other squad to play at that pace and tempo? Mind Boggling!

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

Hmmmmm??......and why would you care about KU? You're a self-admitted SDSU why dont you go post on their board. This is for real KU fans......not you. So don't go away mad.....just go away.

SDSurferFan 7 years, 2 months ago

Lol.....I am both.

Be sure only to read positive posts that align with your thinking.

Ben Simonett 7 years, 2 months ago

Why is everyone freaking out?

7-3 is exactly where most of us thought this team would be at this point in the season.

We all knew coming in this team wasn't going to be great. You shouldn't be upset that they are playing to there ability level. you should be upset that the coaching staff is bringing in another recruiting class loaded with kids of this same ability level.

tobyfoo 7 years, 2 months ago

Has nothing to do with the record, or the team. It is a trend of loosing to mid majors. You may be fine with it. I for one am not.

tdscpa 7 years, 2 months ago

..."mid-major" type of kids...

You mean seniors with three + years of college experience?

Adam James 7 years, 2 months ago

Couldn't agree more with BigManU. As I was watching a possession late in the game when we were down by 3 our defensive intensity was outstanding. This was the only time it looked as though our pace changed....too bad it was only for one possession of the ENTIRE GAME.

This being said, our guys will bounce back and we will have a strong finish to the season and surprise some people in the tourney.

Scott Bonnet 7 years, 2 months ago

This team sucks. There are some decent individuals, but the team sucks. Stupid turnover after stupid turnover, add-in lazy defense and poor shot selection. Go ahead and blow smoke up each others dresses. Defend this junk. This is a bad team. I feel bad for Thomas Robinson. I'm not saying they are beyond repair, but they had better figure things out quickly or they won't begin to sniff 20 wins.

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

I know it's much more satisfying to ball your hands into fists, stomp your feet and throw a temper-tantrum about this team than it is to look critically and see the team for what it is, but the simple truth is that you are just incorrect.

By Kansas' recent standards, this team his a long way from what we've come to expect.

However, it's foolish to say a team is "bad" or "sucks", when they currently sit a 20th out of 345 teams in terms of offensive efficiency and 12th out of 345 teams in terms of defensive efficiency.

Anyone who thinks KU won't make the tournament--like stanleys down there--is a bonafide moron.

Chayse Patrick 7 years, 2 months ago

Read it again idiot and point out just where I said I don't think Ku will make the tournament??? I said "they might not make the Big Dance unless we have a major turnaround in every aspect of the game"
I'm sorry you must be one of those people who have to read something 10 times before it sinks in. Read that very carefully you bonafide MORON!!!!!

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

Allow me to clarify: anyone who thinks KU "might not make the tournament" is a bonafide moron.

There. Better?

The truth is that we are the 12th best team in the country at this point in time according to Pomeroy (, and we are already 3-2 against the Pomeroy top 50.

So it's not a matter of KU needing to make "major turnarounds in every aspect of the game" so much as they need to avoid regressing and keep improving.

I just get annoyed by the doomsayers like yourself. KU has looked awful at times this season. They've also looked pretty good at others. The temper tantrum about how they need a major overhaul is just sensationalist garbage.

VaJay 7 years, 2 months ago

You have zero class using a deceased former Jayhawk's name, especially when it's for a brainless rant. You feel bad for TRob? I feel bad for you.

tom123kufan 7 years, 2 months ago

We are all forgetting that Davidson shot the 3 ball unexpectedly well last night. True we didn't guard like we needed too, but they were hitting shots they don't normally hit. Every one of them was like a right job to our guts and we didn't respond. Get it in the paint!

Chayse Patrick 7 years, 2 months ago

7 and 3?? Even if we flipped the OSU game with a loss and won last night we are still 7 and 3 BUT this season is on Self. He recruited 3-4 guys that aren't even on the court. What the hell was he thinking? You CANNOT tell me he didn't know. I DO NOT see KU winning the Big 12 and maybe not even making the Big Dance unless we have a major turnaround in every aspect of the game. Hey it's gut check time guys, time to play!!!!

JayhawkLifer 7 years, 2 months ago

From Brannen's twitter page:

Brannen J. Greene @b_greene14 the gym... FOLLOW ME! Simple...future Kansas Jayhawk #2013

Rae Bricil 7 years, 2 months ago

KU could be fine. We have seen moments where they can play really well. They need to get over this sense of entitlement--that they deserve to win against a lesser known opponent bc of who they are--bc Vegas favors them that will be the outcome. The problems with this team appears mostly mental--from the starters and the reserves--from turnovers to defense. People say we are not that deep which is true but come tourney time we usually only play 7 to 8 anyways--i think we can have a good 7th and a decent 8th by the end of the year. Unfortunately unless Teahan is hitting shots he should not be apart of the 7-8 man rotation. Yes he may be some sort of leader but he really could not keep up with the Davidson players--always a step behind--and to be objective that is Davidson--what happens when he plays teams that are more athletic. He is a good hustler and tips the ball back out on the offensive end but he is just not that quick.

Steve Kubler 7 years, 2 months ago

It appears many of you take the comment, “This team is not that good.” and immediately turn it to "these players are not that good". If you do you are missing the point. Individually our players stack up pretty good with just about anyone. Sadly they just can not seem to get it together and work together as a team.

Go back and watch the game without watching the guy with the ball when KU is on offense and the off-ball defense when Davidson had the ball. Guys are running into each other, passes are not on target, there is little help defense, and people tend to stand and watch way to much. TRob made guards look bad a couple of times as when their man drove he stood and watched waiting for a great play rather than stepping in and taking the charge.

It is pretty evident why Teahan is in the game rather than Tharpe. Conner couldn't hit the broad side of a barn last night but he was hustling the entire game. At least part of the time he was out of position on his man was due to trying to cover another responsibility. Not bragging up Conner here, just pointing out that he was the lesser of evils TEAM wise last night. While I would love to see Naadir on the floor he still looks lost way to often for that to happen yet.

I used to play in a rec league and at the end of the high school season the high school team would come in and take some of us on. We were old, slow, and they were cocky and talented. They played the same way KU is playing now, as a group of individuals rather than as a team and from time to time we embarrassed them badly.

I would like to blame HCBS for this and in truth he does deserve some responsibility. However these guys are all adults if only barely. None of them are new to team basketball and they should all know the importance of team work.. Someone needs to become the leader this team needs and pull them together. TT should have been the one, he still could be but he had better work quickly. I saw Tharpe pull the team together last night for a chat after a foul. That shows promise for the future and I am hoping he gets his D working so that future can happen soon.

flyingfinn 7 years, 2 months ago

Turnovers and free throws both go hand in hand. You need concentration with both to be successful and this team has not demonstrated that on a consistance basis. Some how, some way we need consistant point guard play to be successful and so far TT has not played that way, I know he has been hurt but most of his mistakes are mental NOT physical. We miss Reed and Morningstar more than most people want to give them credit for from a leadership standpoint and a calming effect on the court.

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

Ignore SD Surfer Fan......he comes on this board pretending to be a fan of KU but is actually a San Diego State fan. He likes to make you think he's a real rah-rah KU person......but is not.

Get off this board, SD Surfer Fan......go post on SDSU.

PhogAdvisory 7 years, 2 months ago

Not cool, especially coming from the dude who often purposely "trolls it up" sometimes just to get a rise out of people. I'm subtracting the +1 I gave you on the other article. Surfer Fan posts in here constantly and is generally a positive, intelligent writer. Just because s/he's a fan of two teams doesn't mean s/he isn't a legit KU fan. SDSU isn't even a rival school. We barely ever play each other.

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

Your sentiments are understandable. But please only deduct 5 points and give me partial credit.......It's not possible to be a fan of more than one team.....that means you are a fan of neither. My opinion.

kennethst 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't know PhogAdvisory....I have to go with "theend" on this......"theend" at times is quite annoying and harsh......but he has moments of clarity.......I do recall SD Surfer Fan trash talking Kansas a few months back and saying how he would root for SDSU if they played KU......that tells me he is not a true fan......just saying.

I dont particularly like defending "theend".....but I think he is right on this.

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

Not at all. Davidson is obviously a very good team.

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

Not at all. Davidson is obviously a very good team.

Jocelyn Kennedy 7 years, 2 months ago

We knew it would be a rollercoaster year and I for one am perfectly fine with it. The fun all KU fans had screaming for two hours at the Ohio State game far outweighs the disappointment of last night's game. They were out for revenge for 08 (anyone see Stephen Curry's tweet?) and they played better than we did. You all can analyze all you want, but I say we enjoy the good and not be so negative about the bad. We'll get better. RCJH!!!

KPOP 7 years, 2 months ago

come in off the ledge. Its going to be a long season for you that live and die with every KU possession and/or win and loss. Hopefully we'll get a little better each game, learn something and head into March with a much better team. As I see it , KU needs to develop a scorer or two or three. Somebody that wants the ball (besides TRob) and wants to score. This little weave game we play at the top of the key is nothing more than a gimmick at this point. It scares nobody and takes 3 guys out of the offense and leaves 1 option as to where the ball is going. I have faith in HCBS and his coaches that they'll get this figured out and my guess is this team will look much different Jan 15 than it does right now.

Robert Murphy 7 years, 2 months ago

Gee fellows the mighty, perfect Jaybirds got beat. What's next, the Kansas City Chiefs might beat the Green Bay Packers?

jaymar74 7 years, 2 months ago

If we don't win a minimum of 33 games and another conference championship I say we just shut down the program.

Geekinout 7 years, 2 months ago

Bill Self is a great coach, but once again that game proved that it's not always about the "jimmy and the joes" and it is in fact the "x's and o's." KU looked completely lost when they realized they could beat them with overpowering athleticism. I'm wondering why he's afraid to go back to a 2-3 zone to stop that ridiculous penetration where one guy usually breaks down the defense for either a sloppy off balance runner or a kick out to a wide open man. This team is way behind on the defensive side and were out played by inferior athletes as some would think. It's going to be a struggle this year considering there's really not much identity to this team. Even Thomas Robinson, while putting up great stats, doesn't seem to have one solid inside post move, unless you count his spin moves which usually he ends up spinning into double teams and less favorable positioning. My gosh, realize when you are being doubled!

Dale Koch 7 years, 2 months ago

Answer these questions. Does TT look any different now than he did as a freshman? Does CT look any different now than he did as a freshman? Does EJ look any different now than he did as a freshman? If the answer you choose is NO, then where does the blame lie? Coaching? Peaked as Freshman?(or not peaked at all). Just a thought.

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

No.....they are no better. But that doesn't mean they are bad players.

It is what it is.

Dale Koch 7 years, 2 months ago

You're right, NO BETTER. But why? Coaching, perhaps??? What else could it be. Just wondering why no improvement.

142466 7 years, 2 months ago

Two significant reasons for this year's downturn Are: (1) the two freshman being declared ineligble, and (2) Self's recent inability to sign top recruiting targets. Obviously, Self will never mention those two reasons in public. Especially during the season. That would serve no purpose. Overall, Self is doing an outstanding job. But if you don't have the horses, you rarely win the race.

With the NBA grabbing all top talent early, it's difficult to stay on top every year. It requires a juggling act. Duke and Carolina are the only two programs that come close to pulling it off. Kentucky can't even do it. KU, along with 2 or 3 other schools, are usually nipping at their heels. KU should ascend to a high level two years from now, maybe even next year.

I predicted 9 or 10 losses by season's end. That is a rational forecast. I'm sticking with it. I've been here long enough to have learned that, as a fan, if you have reasonable expectations, the journey is more enjoyable. Any surprises are then likely to be pleasant.

rockchalkchalkin23 7 years, 2 months ago

"Two significant reasons for this year's downturn Are: (1) the two freshman being declared ineligble, and (2) Self's recent inability to sign top recruiting targets............ Overall, Self is doing an outstanding job. But if you don't have the horses, you rarely win the race."

The horses on KU were much stronger and faster than the horses on Davidson, yet Davidson still won. No matter how you look at the race, the training of the horse is why it was won. It's not solely mid-majors teams, as folks state above, that Self has a problem with. It's the coaches these mid-majors have. The reason why Self has had success everywhere he goes is because his system is smart. The downfall is it takes players with high basketball IQ's and to play it.

As it goes, Self's biggest strength is his biggest weakness. Just because his system is the best, in my opinion, doesn't mean that no adjustments need to be made in game situations, minor or major(adjustments). His system will beat most teams on a consistent basis. Mixing high talent, with high basketball IQ's in Self's system is disaster 90% of the time for opposing teams. The 2008 Jayhawks were an example of this and averaged wins by some 20 PPG.

I respectfully disagree with you and everyone else that says Self is outstanding or great. This team by no means lacks talent or basketball IQ compared to most around the nation. I also respectively disagree and say that if Self was a great coach, that 9 or 10 losses for this team would be irrational.

142466 7 years, 2 months ago

Many of Self's best players have left early for the NBA. The NBA poachers make it tough to field a highly talented team every year. UK, NC, and Duke face the same dilemma. That's why every one of these legendary programs occasionally departs the inner sanctum for a year or two. But they quickly reenter. Right now we are outside, looking in. We will return to our rightful place 2 years from now, perhaps next year.

Regarding Self's recruiting and coaching ability. I'm fairly new to these LJW blogs. Maybe this has already been discussed: Seems to me that one of the inner sanctum schools, a top rate school at that, will likely be searching for a new coach 3 or 4 years from now. Age is a fact of life. I think we all know someone who will be at or near the top of Duke's list. So grant Self a down year or two. Appreciate what we've got or he may be tempted to accept the Devils' eventual offer.

David Howell 7 years, 2 months ago

When you are successful for a long time, you expect that success to continue. We are spoiled as Kansas basketball fans.

However, as fans I think we have to temper our expectations this year and drastically. Bill apparently is decent at making good basketball players better, but there is only so much one can do with average players. Withey and Teahan on the floor at the same time is not usually conducive to high scoring, physical, talented basketball. Tyshawn comes thru every so often, but fails to come close to the play of what we would expect of a quality point guard. And last, but not least, KU for the past several many years has been quite weak at defending the 3 point shot. In fact at times we play as if "we dare you to prove you can keep making that shot." At least it seems that way to me ............

Do we have 10 scholarships available for next year ?? I know we don't, but after the Davidson game I only saw a couple of guys that deserve one come next year.

HawkKlaw 7 years, 2 months ago

I agree with you about tempering our expectations. Withey isn't doing so bad, but Connor isn't contributing like a true "6th man" should. He's a solid shooter...that's about it. Tyshawn made the game last night look ugly. Really ugly. But when Tyshawn plays well, KU is tough to beat. We just haven't seen a whole lot of that yet this season. Here's hoping he turns it around.

And I certainly agree about defending the 3 point shot. Why, year after year, does KU fail to guard the trey? Most of Self's losses to mid-majors have occurred when the opposing team blasts KU with three pointers. Three pointers are huge momentum builders. For some reason KU seems content allowing teams to hoist them up all game long.

Geekinout 7 years, 2 months ago

Lastly, I know Tharpe does some bone-headed freshman stuff, but imo he needs to be playing a lot more minutes. Maybe he's the glue that can bring this team together. I'm not looking for anything outrageous in the box scores, just someone who takes care of the ball and looks to feed it inside. Travis Releford, where have you disappeared to? He's one of the few players on the team that understands the mid-range game, however, this team should be attacking the basket at every chance. Tired of seeing 3's being launched when they obviously aren't falling.

rwhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

I hope they learned something about defending a smaller line-up, because if not, Misery is going to eat our lunch this year.

Tony Bandle 7 years, 2 months ago

Last night was like watching the movie "Hoosiers" only we were the team from South Bend and Davidson was Hickory!!

We still could end up 10-3 going into league play. We won't lose a game in Allen, so that's 9-0 We'll split on the road, so thats 5-4 We'll win a couple of games in the tourney, so thats 2-1 And we'll win an NCAA game, so thats 1-1

Totals 27-7... a career year for many schools....a rebuilding year for us.

tailgater 7 years, 2 months ago

3+0+4+1+1= 7???
Get your point, but check your math... you have us at 27-9

AsadZ 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't have a problem with losses where we play hard/tough like we did against Duke. However I get really down and frustrated when we do not play hard, we come out flat, have no energy, make careless mistakes, and coaching staff does not make adequate adjustments etc etc.

JayhawkJoe2002 7 years, 2 months ago

I am just as bothered by this loss as most of the posters here but I have to believe Self has a bigger plan. A loss to a mid-major now sets up coaching opportunities later in much bigger games. If Bill can use this as a coaching point to get the team to play up to expectation in the future, this loss will be worth it.

Philip Bowman 7 years, 2 months ago

I think it is long past the time when Self should stop "hiring" one and done players. We need players who want a degree from KU. Four year players will bring the consistency that makes for a good team. We need more Jacques Vaughns and less Rushes, Chalmers, etc. Let those guys go elsewhere and leave their schools in the lurch when the big money comes calling. Maybe we won't win another NCAA championship, but I'd be a lot prouder of the Jayhawks. Same goes for football.

AsadZ 7 years, 2 months ago

This comment does not make any sense. Firstly we won NC with Rush, Chalmers who by the way were not OADs. Secondly, How many OADs are in the current team, ZERO.

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

Less Rush and Chalmers?????? Really?

Wow. Really???

Uh......they did give KU 3 amazing years.......they did win a National Championship.

Wow......just wow.

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

Wow. 2people think that we dont need players like Rush and Chalmers????

I'll say it again.......Wow....just wow.

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

Don't worry too much about it. One of those people can't even read (salina hawk =/= salthawk54).

Plus, arguing with someone about whether KU needs more Chalmers' is like arguing with someone about whether or not life on Earth needs the Sun.

jgrobb 7 years, 2 months ago

very articulate my man.................

wildjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Last nights game against Davidson makes KU football team last year look pretty good.

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

Never fails......KU loses a game and all Dr.Smiths from 'Lost in Space' come out......"We're Doomed......Doomed!!!!"

Or maybe this time of year they are Grinches.......Grinches that stole the KU Holiday Spirit. .....posting coal instead of presents!!

Well.....I will keep the spirit........Happy Holidays everyone!!

jgrobb 7 years, 2 months ago

Danger Will Robinson Danger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

Hmmm....I wonder if you were saying that 10 days ago when KU beat Ohio State?

Kinda doubt it.

jgrobb 7 years, 2 months ago

wasn't their best player injured? Nuff said.

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

Oh I're not a KU fan. I can tell......usually the fakes give themselves away after 2 or 3 comments.

You? Took me two.

jgrobb 7 years, 2 months ago

I'm more of a "fan" than you will EVER be.........

theend 7 years, 2 months ago

You may be a fair weather fan.......but nothing else. You're a loser, that's for sure.....coming on this board and saying your team sucks.......I can't stand douchebags like you.

kennethst 7 years, 2 months ago

Agree.....loser jgrobb......get off this board. You're not a KU fan. But if you're pathetic. LOSER!!

jgrobb 7 years, 2 months ago

I never said they were my "team" I said I was a "fan." Get it straight end. You're losing it man. My team could take down Kansas any day of the week.

kennethst 7 years, 2 months ago

Pathetic.....loser that has the time and need to post here when he's not even a fan. No women in your life,huh? Try internet dating. But doubt that would work for a loser like you.

jgrobb 7 years, 2 months ago

thanks for the free rent inside your head tonight...........

jgrobb 7 years, 2 months ago

Wow, we reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy suck...............

jgrobb 7 years, 2 months ago


Brian Conrad 7 years, 2 months ago

Tharpe needs to mature fast. EJ needs to learn to drive the basket. the whole team needs to understand we have one of the best big men in country . Withey rebound more aggressive . the worst part is we have guards that stand at the three point line and fire 20+ with T Rob??? this team will win nothing if they do not understand real fast... go inside and drive and dish . cut your 3 point attempts in half. Tharpe has to get more minutes... Teahon has experience... Tharpe has to learn and can not riding the bench. drive the lane , drive the lane , drive the lane.. dish to T ROB and Withey .. be ready for the pass and rebound. stop launching threes , value the ball... oh well get ready for 8 to ten losses ... these guys do not listen. ohhhh and by the way .. T Rob was gassed, had his fist up wanting out , then bad foul and turnover.. was not his or Self's fault.. with the rest of team not listening .. well Self HAD to use all the timeouts early in attempt to wake up EJ , Releford and Teahon.. play with half effort and see how big on campus you will be after 7 more losses... one thing I have figured out from this game... Tyshawn gives his all... turnovers or not if our other guards gave same effort could live with few more EJ turnovers IF he went to the goal like TT.

Brian Conrad 7 years, 2 months ago

by the way jg poster above... if you are soo proud of "your team" why are you posting here? jg is obviously a fan of a team that has NEVER sniffed a Final Four....

jgrobb 7 years, 2 months ago

Oh, like they way we collapsed in last year's tourney? Coon, we will NEVER live down that last game, never, that was a complete embarrasment... is that what you're talking about??

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

Give me a break.

KU was one of several teams that lost to VCU in that tournament. They (VCU) were playing well above their normal level and rode it all the way to the Final Four.

If you look at VCU's season-long shooting compared to the way they were torching the nets for 6 games in a row in March, it's clear. Oddly enough (or perhaps not so oddly), they lost when they finally came back down to Earth in their Final Four game against Butler.

Plus, UConn had a very similar loss a few years ago, and they seem to have bounced back from that embarrassing, never-live-it-down loss just fine.

kennethst 7 years, 2 months ago

Don't even waste your time with that loser!

AZHawk72 7 years, 2 months ago

We're a better team than Davidson, but we didn't play like it. And while I normally agree with Coach Self's assessment of a game, I don't on this one. Yes, this team doesn't pass the ball with purpose, as it's more like "get rid of it because I don't know what to do with it," and that just is not going to cut it.

If we don't have anyone willing to penetrate and create two-on-one situations, we're going to look like we did last night--a continual launching of three point prayers that never get answered. The lack of guards is killing this team.

I feel like an idiot for taking all that Reed and Morningstar did for granted. I mean, I know that Reed created and Morningstar stopped the opponents stud on every given night, but I didn't fully appreciate their penetration, their pin-point passes, and the offensive pressure that they both brought in carving-up the defense.

Bless me, Father, for I have sinned...

AZHawk72 7 years, 2 months ago

We're a better team than Davidson, but we didn't play like it. And while I normally agree with Coach Self's assessment of a game, I don't on this one. Yes, this team doesn't pass the ball with purpose, as it's more like "get rid of it because I don't know what to do with it," and that just is not going to cut it.

If we don't have anyone willing to penetrate and create two-on-one situations, we're going to look like we did last night--a continual launching of three point prayers that never get answered. The lack of guards is killing this team.

I feel like an idiot for taking all that Reed and Morningstar did for granted. I mean, I know that Reed created and Morningstar stopped the opponents stud on every given night, but I didn't fully appreciate their penetration, their pin-point passes, and the offensive pressure that they both brought in carving-up the defense.

Bless me, Father, for I have sinned...

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