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Kansas defeats Ohio State, 78-67

  • 2:15 p.m., Dec. 10, 2011
  • Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, KS

Saturday, December 10, 2011

No asterisk needed: Gutsy Tyshawn Taylor, KU not apologetic for beating Sullinger-less Ohio State, 78-67

Ohio State's Jared Sullinger, left, who did not suit up because of an injury, greets Thomas Robinson after the Jayhawks 78-67 win over #2 nationally ranked Ohio State University at Allen Fieldhouse, Dec. 10, 2011. ..

Ohio State's Jared Sullinger, left, who did not suit up because of an injury, greets Thomas Robinson after the Jayhawks 78-67 win over #2 nationally ranked Ohio State University at Allen Fieldhouse, Dec. 10, 2011. ..

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Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 78-67 victory over Ohio State on Dec. 10, 2011.

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Kansas defeated Ohio State, 78-67 on Saturday, Dec. 10, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Ohio State sophomore sensation Jared Sullinger, who has a bad back, didn’t play in Saturday’s marquee matchup against Kansas University.

KU senior point guard Tyshawn Taylor, who has a bum knee, did participate. He dished a career-high 13 assists against seven turnovers, while scoring nine points and grabbing three rebounds in the No. 13-ranked Jayhawks’ 78-67 victory over the No. 2 Buckeyes in Allen Fieldhouse.

“I wasn’t missing this game,” Taylor said emphatically. “No discussion at all.”

The gutsy Hoboken, N.J., native, who suffered a torn meniscus and sprained MCL in his right knee at practice Monday, played 34 minutes against Long Beach State Tuesday and 35 Saturday, putting off a trip to the surgeon until Sunday.

He’ll miss between one and three weeks, with coach Bill Self not yet ruling him out for KU’s next game — a Monday, Dec. 19 contest against Davidson at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

“We don’t win the game against Long Beach State unless he plays and we don’t win (Saturday) unless he plays,” KU coach Bill Self said of Taylor. “He’s definitely not 100 percent, but never once complained and never once said he was hurt, never once said anything. I get on Ty because he will turn it over every now and then, but where would we be without him? I think everybody should appreciate how bad he wanted to be out there,” added Self, whose 7-2 Jayhawks handed Ohio State its first loss in nine contests.

The Buckeyes, who trailed 9-2 early, 35-29 at halftime, and a game-high 12 points with 10 minutes left, remained competitive without Sullinger. William Buford scored 21 and Deshaun Thomas 19 on a day four Jayhawks scored in double figures. Thomas Robinson led the way with 21 points, while Elijah Johnson had five threes and 15 points, Kevin Young a career-high 14 and Travis Releford 10.

“Don’t put an asterisk next to this," Self said. “We beat Ohio State. Without him (Sullinger) they are a top five team and with him, they are a top two team.

“We caught a break,” Self conceded, “just like we caught a break when Blake Griffin didn’t play at OU. We still went down there and outscored them, 60-25, in a stretch (in an 85-55 win on Jan. 14, 2008). We’re not going to apologize for winning this one in any way, shape or form. I hope Jared gets back soon. I hope we get to play them again, because that means we probably would have advanced in the NCAA Tournament.”

The Jayhawk players were not about to apologize.

“I’m excited for this win,” Taylor said. “They didn’t have their best player, but we can’t control that. It sucks that he didn’t play because I think it would have been a better game. We’ve got to take it for what it is. We beat the No. 2 team in the country today. That’s something for us to be happy about and proud of.”

Robinson, who likely would have guarded, and been guarded by Sullinger, had 10 straight points for KU as the Jayhawks stretched a 66-61 lead (at 4:16) to 76-67 (at :29.1).

“The big fella didn’t play today and we knew it probably would have been a little difference in the game if he was out on the floor,” Robinson said. “They are a great team with or without him, but we still prepared the same way when we found out he wasn’t going to play (in warmups).

“It’s not Thomas Robinson versus Jared Sullinger,” Robinson added. “I know it would have been fun for everybody to watch. It would have been exciting playing against him, but it comes down to my team versus their team.”

The Jayhawks were mighty focused to win their first in three tries against a top 10 team. KU had lost to Duke and Kentucky this season.

“I felt our nonconference would not be complete if we didn’t get one of them,” Robinson said.

Noted Taylor: “At the beginning of the year we circled three games on the schedule. This was the third one. We were 0-2 for the first two and we got this one. Sullinger didn’t play, but that’s not really our fault."

KU hit 58.3 percent of its shots to Ohio State’s 38.7. The Jayhawks had 18 assists to 18 turnovers; OSU 15 turnovers, 12 assists. KU won the rebounding battle, 31-30.

“We had control of the game,” Self said, noting that was the plan. “We needed to beat one of the top three teams we played (in nonconference). I told our guys, ‘There was no other option but to win this game.’ We didn’t deserve to win against Kentucky. We got it down to the last minute and didn’t beat Duke. We couldn’t let that happen today.”

As far as Sunday’s surgery, Taylor is prepared.

“I’m a little nervous," Taylor said. "I never had an injury to my knee before, but T-Rob had the same injury; Conner (Teahan) had it. They said it wasn’t bad. I could be back next game if all goes well. It hasn’t really bothered me. It’s a little sharp pain when I cut. Surgery is going to make it better. I’ll be back 100 percent.”

Comments

Hank Cross 2 years, 7 months ago

Get well TT. And spend your recovery thinking about how you can cut down on all those turnovers.

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squawkhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Why? The guy is a decent player but only has one year of eligibility left. What is he going to do in one year with the talent that KU has right now? Answer, win one more game. KU needs to focus on getting a good HS QB that will be in the program for 4 or 5 years. That is how you build a long-term winning program, not by getting one and done players.

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lv_jhwk 2 years, 7 months ago

Wrong. You bring in the one-and-done as a bridge for the long-term qb, allowing him to redshirt that first year.

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JayHok 2 years, 7 months ago

He's already played two years in Weis' system. Who would be better?

Do you know any other five star pro style QB's who are considering Kansas?

Has Kansas ever had a five star player before? You seem to have a lot of inside knowledge on how to build a program, do tell

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michael anway 2 years, 7 months ago

Thanks Tyshawn for the great effort with a bum knee. You are a warrior!

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jhawk613 2 years, 7 months ago

For those of us not there, two questions:

Did Crist get shown on the big screen?

How did the crowd react?

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JhawkalumJB 2 years, 7 months ago

I was there. I never noticed Crist being put on the screen. I left the game thinking he must not have been there because he never made it on the screen. Then I read that he was there. Not sure why it didn't happen. I hope he picks KU!!!

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Kyle Sybesma 2 years, 7 months ago

I'm as guilty as everyone else. I'm more intrigued by the football stories than basketball on a day we played and beat the #2 team in the country.

Who's gonna be the DC? Who's gonna be the OC? Who's gonna be the strength coach? Is Crist coming to KU? Who else is Weis gonna get to commit to KU?

I'm getting excited!! Fall 2012 needs to hurry up and get here.

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BillSelf4Prez 2 years, 7 months ago

not really! The bad thing about Basketball and Football season is it means school is in session again. But i look forward to the start of the MLB cause only 2 months of school! But I'M PUMPED FOR NEXT YEAR!!! WE MIGHT GET A BIG 12 WIN!!!!!

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Alohahawk 2 years, 7 months ago

In this case, not everyone. That's a constant, which primarily happens in science, birth or death, and taxes. But to each their own.

As for me: I'll back the KU football team during the football season. I back the KU basketball team during the basketball season. Overall though, my first choice will always be KU basketball (over football).

Unless I can't help it, I never miss a televised KU game of football or basketball. But I never watch any other college (or NFL) football games, live or on TV. I admit, I'm not a fan of football. However, I do watch a number of non-KU basketball games on TV.

Although I live in Hawaii, I don't back the local (Hawaii University) teams at all. In fact, I usually hope they lose. (Never attended one of their games, or spent a penny on a ticket to one of their games.) I mean, does a person have to back their local teams just because they happen to live in the same area?

With all the conference re-alignment shuffling changing the face of college sports, it's supposed to be about money from the television contracts. I don't see how that works. There simply must be more TV fans who watch college basketball, with 31 to 40 games in a season, then watch college football, with 12 - 14 or so games per season. That's about 3 times as many available games for basketball. Yet, football is the selling point for conference re-alignments. Why?

Enough said, except:

Rock Chalk, Jayhawk, KU!!!!

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dylans 2 years, 7 months ago

Football can make 2-4 times the money that basketball does. Even at KU.

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jhawk613 2 years, 7 months ago

Consider it this way:

TV Revenue for basketball: KU will play 32ish games each season, which is a lot of opportunities to for advertisers to get on TV. How many of those are enticing match-ups. I doubt the TV revenue for the Towson game was a financial windfall.

For football, there is a much smaller supply (12-13 games), so the cost of ad space would increase. Now, the KU-OSU basketball game might have cost more than a bad KU football match-up for advertisers, but on the whole Football brings in more advertising money b/c it is limited.

You also can factor in gate receipts. Memorial Stadium seats 53,000 to Allen Fieldhouse at 16,300.

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Alohahawk 2 years, 7 months ago

I don't argue that gate receipts are larger. I realize Memorial Stadium can hold more fans than Allen Fieldhouse. What I was pointing out, however, was TV advertising, which has no set seating limits. And that is what re-alignment is all about, television advertising money, not selling seats to attend a game.

As for quality of matchups, an OSU vs KU game being more enticing than say a Towson vs KU game, again I agree. But very close to the same amount of KU fans will tune in to watch both games. It isn't the opponent the hometown fans (for lack of a better term) tune in to watch, it is their favorite team they want to see. KU basketball fans are pretty much diehards, which road attendance at games well illustrates, and as I pointed out, a lot of us never miss our team's televised game, whomever the opponent is.

If a team, football or basketball, has a following, that following will do just about anything to watch their team play. So, if there are more chances to watch their team play (30ish over 12 -13), it seems logical to me that there will be more fans over a season that will watch basketball because there are more chances to watch their team play.

I'll allow the arguement that some ad space costs more than other. (Super Bowl ads are the most expensive, or so I've heard.) But much more ad space is available and sold during the NCAA tournament, and I'd bet that the the overall revenue brought in is also much higher.

I guess it all depends on the popularity of the two sports: football vs basketball. And since I'm not into watching guys attempting to bash their opponents brains out on the gridiron, I'll never understand the "re-alignment blues" (to alter an old military adage).

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Steve Gantz 2 years, 7 months ago

"I get on Ty because he will turn it over every now and then, but where would we be without him?"
Bill Self's quote. Read it all you people who think we'd be better with him off the floor. Of course you may know better than the coach.

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EverRisingHawk 2 years, 7 months ago

I'm with you 100 percent. We love you Tyshawn. Please pay no attention to all the arm chair analysts slash haters who have probably never touched a basketball in their life. You are a Jayhawk and we appreciate all of your efforts.

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EverRisingHawk 2 years, 7 months ago

To say that all of the Tyshawn Taylor criticism has equated to little more than tough love is absurd. If you have read the posts about our senior guard on this site, quite a few of them are blatantly intended to tear him down. One individual wrote a mock thank you guard from Coach K thanking Tyshawn for handing them the win - quite a few others issued some mindless drivel about how they can't wait for TT to be out of a Jayhawk uniform, and they spewed some nonsense about how Tharpe should take over as starting point. Sure, Tyshawn has committed some irritating turn overs, but Self has continued to support him. In Self's words, without TT, we don't win. Plain and simple. He plays aggressive offense and he slashes when we need someone to create. Unfortunately, that lends itself to some carelessness mistakes. But I tend to trust Bill Self in these matters...

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EverRisingHawk 2 years, 7 months ago

That was thank you "card" and "careless mistakes." Meant to post as a reply below. Doh

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BillSelf4Prez 2 years, 7 months ago

Tip my hat to Mr. Taylor. Played a gutsy game and played good. Only thing is he needs to keep his TO's down. But he is now 42 assist and 39 turnovers on the season!!!

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John Mueller 2 years, 7 months ago

I will speak for the so-called haters.

First, that is a stupid label. Of course we all love KU and we all root for TT.

But, for a senior, the kid makes way too many stupid mistakes / decisions with the ball. Period. No debate.

However, i tip my hat to his guts and leadership yesterday. He played hurt, and for the most part, he played well.

Nobody hates the kid. Just want him to play to his potential and be intelligent.

With regards to the asterisk, its a win. I don't think Motta was being a jerk, i think he was just having fun with Self. No harm done.

Clearly, the game would have been more difficult to win with their best player on the court, but who's to say Kansas doesn't win even with the kid of the floor?

We are KANSAS, after all.

Misc thoughts: Withey took a step backwards yesterday. Hopefully, just an off day. Liked to see Young makes some plays. EJ stroke looked nice, but never seem to see him make plays on the defensive end. Thought Releford played a nice game as well.

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EverRisingHawk 2 years, 7 months ago

To say that all of the Tyshawn Taylor criticism has equated to little more than tough love is absurd. If you have read the posts about our senior guard on this site, quite a few of them are blatantly intended to tear him down. One individual wrote a mock thank you card from Coach K thanking Tyshawn for handing them the win - quite a few others issued some mindless drivel about how they can't wait for TT to be out of a Jayhawk uniform, and they spewed some nonsense about how Tharpe should take over as starting point. Sure, Tyshawn has committed some irritating turn overs, but Self has continued to support him. In Self's words, without TT, we don't win. Plain and simple. He plays aggressive offense and he slashes when we need someone to create. Unfortunately, that lends itself to some careless mistakes. But I tend to trust Bill Self in these matters...

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John Mueller 2 years, 7 months ago

PS sure would be nice to get Crist. Gosh, what would it be like to have a QB?

If I never see Webb take another snap, i will be ok.

That kid is just awful. No clock in his head, zero ability to see the field.

Just awful.

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gdkadjayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Feel the same way about Webb as former coach Gill. Love the guy, but in over his head.

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NoteToSelf 2 years, 7 months ago

I'm pretty sure it is a minor NCAA violation to show recruits on the video board at a game. I would bet the officials are coached not to show the high school guys. Tyshawn can be very "loose" with the ball sometimes, but we would be worse w/o him. Why isn't Tharpe playing??? KU needs to get him some playing time to back up Tyshawn this year and take over next year.

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Bob Forer 2 years, 7 months ago

Props to TT for his gutsy performance. He played his heart out. Now lets hope when he returns he plays with his head as well.

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10point8 2 years, 7 months ago

Wow. Were any of you watching the same game I was? Absolute worst of Tyshawn's career. Sure, physically, he's not 100%. I get that. But his mental errors are the problem. His crowning blunder of the day was taking and missing a terrible shot in lieu of dribbling out more time with 17 seconds on the shot clock at the end of the game.

In most cases, I don't think he's "not thinking." I think he's starting to think too much. His game has always had a flow to it, and when he starts analysing every move he's making as he's making it, that flow is disrupted and the results are frustrating for everyone.

So maybe he just needs to stop thinking, have some fun, and flow.

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JhawkalumJB 2 years, 7 months ago

Worst game of his career I think is a stretch. I do agree with some of your analysis though. A lot of TT's turnovers happen because he is trying to do too much and forcing things.

I do feel more confident when Elijah is bringing the ball down the court. When TT brings it down I am just waiting for something wild and out of control to happen.

I am hopeful that TT will mellow a little and let the game come to him more, albeit, without compromising his aggressiveness (he does make things happen when he drives hard to the basket).

Ultimately trust in Self, he'll coach TT to improvement.

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Jeremy Wilhelm 2 years, 7 months ago

I have been thinking about TT's turnovers a lot, and I've noticed that about 1 in 3 of them are the kind of thing where he throws it and the intended recepient just isn't there. One of two things is probably happening there: either Tyshawn is being boneheaded or the other player did something unexpected... i.e. cut to the basket instead of popping out to the perimeter like the play was designed. It's possible that a lot of these mistakes are a factor of the team still gelling; still finding it's 'trust'. I wouldn't be surprised if, by the end of the conference season, TT has greatly reduced his assist to turnover ratio, and I bet it will be because the team has gelled and everyone does what they are supposed to, when they are supposed to.

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KU79 2 years, 7 months ago

He's just a mixed bag. Plenty of talent and does good things, but then stuff that just makes you scratch your head. The kind of play that we're just not used to seeing in our point guards, especially a senior. I just hope he plays smarter the rest of the year. We're all fans (well, most of us that post here) but it is what it is. And what really drives me nuts are the possessions where it appears that TT decides it's "his turn" to shoot, and forces something. He just needs to slow down and not try to do too much. I wish him the best with the surgery and hope he comes back even better!

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Jeremy Wilhelm 2 years, 7 months ago

No way - I thought TT did great against a really good opposing PG in Craft... Sure he had more turnovers (7) than we'd like, but he defended Craft really well and kept him mostly out of the paint plus limited him from three point range... He also had 13 assists. I think you're just finding it difficult to see the good in his game, even when it is right there in front of your face.

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hawk_of_ages 2 years, 7 months ago

Let's unpack that for a moment. Thirteen assists on a bum knee vs. the top defensive guard in the country, leading us to victory over the #2 team in the nation... If that was "the worst game of his career," this guy must be the best guard in KU history.

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 7 months ago

I don't get the people that are calling for Tharpe...he is good, but against good competition he has turned the ball over at a higher rate than TT.

The team is going to have a lot of up and downs, but everyone has to realize that we are rotating TT, EJ, Rele, and Teahan...I don't think we are going deeper than that.

It looks like we are rotating Wesley and Young when Withey and Trob need a break, but that is the team we are playing with. It seems like if one of the people have foul trouble we go deep to Young, who had to have played the game of his life. I can't believe how many shots from long range he shot and made. If he makes those, that will just open up space in the paint.

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jhawk613 2 years, 7 months ago

Tharpe's going to get his shot during the next 1-3 weeks while Taylor is out.

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Jack Wilson 2 years, 7 months ago

Remember, most calling for Tharpe aren't saying to start him over TT ... really the opposite. Most are just saying to get the guy some minutes. 10 - 12 per game. You never know what you might have .. see KY.

And yesterday .. TT ready to get a meniscus trim, and EJ rolled his ankle. Tharpe may end up having the ball in his hands in the sweet 16.

Self said in the KC Star that Tharpe needed to improve on "everything." Obviously not doing what the coach wants in practice. So it appears he has that hurdle to overcome first. But we may have no choice.

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LngTimeFan 2 years, 7 months ago

TT was gutsy for sure, good performance. Gotta give him credit. I still want to see him stay focused like the other big time pro-potential guys do and have done in the past. Everyone has an off game once in a while, but TT still makes terrible mistakes and is careless with the ball in key situations. BUT, cudos for Sat agains OSU. Wesley woke up, great to see that, TR was into the game too as was EJ, and TR got with it in 2nd half. Great win against a great school/program.

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KansasComet 2 years, 7 months ago

Tyshawn did what a leader should do in a big game for his team. If you can play, then play. He gave the team confidence, and we won the game. Now, as for Sullinger??????

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jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

"Matta's Unmanliness, KU's Fine Play, and Spread-Reffing"

It was a good KU win with KU being the more injured team, and Matta appearing to duck full scale war to try to avoid a loss to KU in Allen Field House by keeping Sullinger out.

See it from Matta's POV.

Ohio State probably stays Number 2 with a loss to KU without Sullinger. And the guys who seed the Madness will ignore the loss to KU come March, if Sullinger did not play.

On the other hand, playing Sullinger did not guaranty a win in Allen Field House. Road game. Sullinger was not at his peak, and even if he were AFH is a tough place to get a win. Further, Matta probably knows Self can out coach Matta 10 out of 10 times. KU also posed difficult match-ups for Ohio State even with Sullinger. And KU, having lost to UK and Duke, and needing one quality win in pre conference, was going to be letting everything ride on a win. And playing Sullinger, while it wouldn't have hurt him, probably wouldn't help him heal.

So: add it all up and Matta ducked KU. It was unmanly, but his smartest move, nonetheless.

Had he played Sullinger, KU still probably would have won; then OSU would have definitely tumbled in the rankings, and the seeders of the Madness in March would have held it against his team.

So Jared Sullinger, a guy capable of jumping around and bounding and high fiving in street clothes on the side lines, but not certainly capable of outplaying TRob even when Sullinger is healthy, sat this one out and Matta, with shrunken manhood, played the seeding game, instead of basketball yesterday.

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Ian Brown 2 years, 7 months ago

Well said, Jaybate.

What's worse is that Duck Matta seemingly has absolutely no shame given his "Merry Christmas" to Bill Self before the game. What a smug thing to say; it shows that it was all premeditated--his plan to sit Sullinger out of fear of the repricussions of losing with Sully in the line up (as you said, it would actually knock them down in the rankings and, more importantly, the seeding committee would actually factor in this loss if Sully had played). On the other hand, he also knew that sitting Sully would nullify the loss and wouldn't effect their seeding come tournament time and probably do little to their ranking either.

Oh well. In my eyes, we won it fair and square. We aren't going to apologize for winning. We had a player/coach who had the cajones to play injured in a big time non-conference match up, and they didn't. We aren't about making excuses, we're about winning ball games.

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REHawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Good luck with your surgery, Tyshawn. Here's hoping you recover quickly and are 100% by league play. Thanks for your gutsy week at the helm of Jayhawk hoops. You took it to Aaron Craft last night, and helped neutralize his usual terrific production.

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jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

NCAA seeders remember this in March: Thad Matta pulled Sullinger and ducked KU to try to suck you in.

Ohio State can probably win what appears to be a weak Big Ten this season probably without a loss.

They can go into March on a long undefeated streak since the loss to KU, which seeders will rationaliz as Sully didn't play. OSU will have what will be called a quality win against a highly ranked UK team, a close loss without their star to a ranked team in KU, and so OSU will be in line for a 1 seed. And Sully might heal a bit, too.

Can't say Matta made the wrong choice here, just the unmanly one--the one lacking in competitive greatness--the one no great coach makes.

~Frankly, everyone on KU played heroically and pretty darned well. Withey was the only one off his game, but he was due for a down game after contributing so much so soon in his development process. And he faced a problematic match-up, and a split lip that wasn't going to take much contact anyway. Same for Justin. We needed a bit more offense from the 5 than Justin could give and so he sat. No failure or dishonor in that.

Tyshawn went about as far above and beyond the call of duty as a Jayhawk can go. Imagine how badly he would have worked that dweeb Allen Craft, if Tyshawn had been healthy. Craft is yet another case of mega hype masking a merely decent player.

TRob carried the mail and was the cornerstone that he increasingly shows himself able to be. My respect for him jumped massively today. It was a big game. It was unpredictable who he would play against. They roughed him up. He had another highly efficient game and controlled the paint at decisive moments inspire of ridiculously biased officiating, which I will address subsequently. 21 its and 7 boards on 7 of 9 says it all.

Elijah sprang to life at a big moment and reminded everyone why he is an excellent player in the process of becoming one. Injury prevented him from running away with the game today.

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gdkadjayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

"Tyshawn went about as far above and beyond the call of duty as a Jayhawk can go. Imagine how badly he would have worked that dweeb Allen Craft, if Tyshawn had been healthy. Craft is yet another case of mega hype masking a merely decent player."

First it's Aaron, not Allen (no, I'm not his mom or dad). One would think that maybe you didn't watch the game with a comment like this. Craft didn't just affect Tyshawn's play - defensively, he was a major disruption all over the court throughout the game. He made his share of mistakes too, but he is far from an overhyped player.

I know you get on a roll with your posts, but maybe a little tempering...?

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jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

Craft healthy, goes 4-11 from the field and 1-3 from trey, fouls out of a game in which OSU is getting almost every break, plays 38 minutes and the most he can get is 6 assists?

Tyshawn, playing on knee that is about to operated on held him completely under control and would have eaten him alive, whatever the !@#$% Craft's first name is.

C'mon, man, Craft couldn't hold TT's jock strap with vice grips and super glue.

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gdkadjayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Field goal shooting percentages had a lot to do with the number of assists for both Craft and Tyshawn. Plus his favorite target was not playing.

Not making excuses for him - I agree with you that Tyshawn is better overall, but Craft, while getting less than half of Tyshawn's assists, also had less than half his turnovers (3 vs 7). I just think we should give Craft his due as well.

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jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

Travis isn't getting much love for it, but he a definitive Glue 3 day and did a fabulous job on Buford, at least I think it was Trav guarding him most of the time. Buford is a terrific player. Buford was 8-23 from the field and 1-6 from trey. That comes form good guarding. He can have 21 points that way every time we play them.

Kevin Young thrilled me most, because I knew EJ would turn the corner, but I wasn't sure about KY. He seems to have it all, but you never know until seems turns into is once on a floor. And it did and he does and KU now has...the missing piece...if it didn't lose Tyshawn in the process. I am tempted to say Self has been sand bagging Kevin for this game, as I hinted at a couple days ago, but then I remember that KY's bone headed footwork recently appeared very real.

Regardless, KY came out and played like gang busters and in a way that really added a huge new dimension to the team. KU will be an order of magnitude better if KY can consistently do what he did against OSU and he should be able to.

~Call me a skeptic, but it appeared to this board rat that the referees were calling the game down the stretch sharply and conspicuously in favor of Ohio State, perhaps to stretch the game into the broadcast window, and perhaps in order to meet some kind of gambling spread requirement.

(Note: I have not evidence of any wrong doing on anyone's part. I just never recall such an anomalous series of calls in a game coinciding with game stats that would suggest a blow out instead of a close game. All I can do is wonder out loud as a baffled observer and ask for those more learned than I to explain a more logical, probable hypotheses of what may have gone on. Everything that follows is hypothetical speculation aimed at triggering a search not for proof of what I lay out, but rather some more credible hypothesis. I don't want for there to be referees biasing games for window fitment, or spread management, but I am drawing a blank on more fitting explanations right now. Help me on this, folks.)

The media gambling complex's money is probably significantly driven by the Northern Industrial states still. A team like Ohio State may be money in the bank for them, especially with 23% and rising unemployment (by 1980 standards of measure), and desperation gambling and gambling addiction on the rise, as usual, in these hard times, as the middle class is being hollowed out by corporate wealth diversion upwards to the top .1 percent continues.

Without the calls, it seems to yours truly that KU would have easily walked away from a Sullinger-free Ohio State in the last half, especially the last 8 minutes, as it had done for much of the rest of game.

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Jack Wilson 2 years, 7 months ago

Jaybate -- Great post.

  1. You have good reason to be skeptical on officiating. The refs were clearly managing their calls down the stretch in favor of Ohio St. Heck, it's happened our favor many, many times. Don't get me started. I might write a novel. Whatever the reason, this stuff appears way too obvious sometimes. Whether it's gambling influence -- money --, subconsiously trying to keep the game close, responding to heckling or coaches complaining or players' comments, trying to "even out" fouls .. whatever. It is a lack of integrity. The game that has stood out to me was the Baylor/Duke Elite Eight game .. no one can tell me that the officials there didn't ensure Duke advancing to the Final Four. Crazy, one-sided calls down the stretch. The best evidence that it has to be occurring is simply money. People kill for less money than is at stake. People swindled elderly folks out of a few grand with no conscience. Some people will prioritize money over integrity .. it's done every day. So the think that it is done with NCAA officials is a logical assumption .. it is actually completely illogical to assume otherwise. I posted this a few weeks ago -- ..

From the article --- Of sophomore forward Justin Wesley, who had five fouls in 10 minutes versus Duke, Self said: “Keeping his hands off the opponent would be a good start. When I was here coaching as a GA (grad assistant under Larry Brown), we had a guy named (Greg) Dreiling and (Danny) Manning who played inside. They (refs) didn’t call fouls on them, but as soon as (Chris) Piper checked in, he got three quick whistles and didn’t do half as much as the other guys do. I do believe bench guys don’t get the same respect starters do. We’ve got to be better than that (in not fouling).”

He is exactly right. This is why refs/umpires/officials suck, in general. I mentioned in a prior post how Wesley seemed to be the guy that got the quick whistle. They balance out the fouls. They made calls for reasons unrelated to what is actually occurring. And they are not accountable for their egregious failures .. see the phantom call vs. Withey. The officials, as a group, every sport, every level . fall back on the lame excuses "it's a hard job" and "we're human." Folks get fired from "hard jobs" all the time, many times because "they're human" and make mistakes. Officials seem to be untouchable. And the sports leagues sanction it .. again, at all levels. It is seems as if officiating failures are accepted.

I maintain that the official that called the foul on Withey should be suspended or fired. My guess is that has occurred many other times.

(cont)

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Jack Wilson 2 years, 7 months ago

(cont) Being around officials at many levels, and many sports .. and being one myself in the past .. I have heard the talk. "Let's get this game over with"; "That coach is going to wish he didn't say that to me" .. as well as witnessing and hearing multiple things completely out of line for officials. Lots of personal opinions and biases that cause calls or non-calls, that influence how they handle the game. I have seen incompetent, horrible officials continue to get important games because they're buddies with the scheduling supervisor. I've seen supervisors argue that a rule isn't really "the rule" unless the official says it is.

I have maintained this for a long time .. given all of the NCAA officials, you are telling me that some of these guys aren't crooks? Aren't taking payments for influencing the outcome of games? I firmly believe that this is going on. After all, fraud and theft and committing illegal acts occurs in all other phases of life. The all mighty dollar is a powerful influence everywhere else; why not related to NCAA officials? Unlike the NFL, there is no all encompassing security force that police officials.


On the rest of you post --

  1. KY does bring a different dimension -- and I agree. Self hasn't been sandbagging on him. The blow-bys and a couple other defensive failures are why Self has failed to have him in the game. This should be fun seeing him on the floor.

  2. And the one you hit right on the head .. Matta ducked us. He took the opportunity to avoid us a full strength. Using the lame excuse that he wanted to protect his career. It was back spasms (imagine that in the same voice inflection as Allen Iverson talking about "practice"). It wasn't a herniated disc, it wasn't nerve damage .. it was a spasm in his back (likely caused by his fat, ab-challenged belly not doing the work). "Unmanley" was your word. Right on there.

  3. EJ wasn't in a slump as was argued by some with Brady .. he might just have a little Vinne Johnson in him. The microwave. Can heat up at anytime, but when he's off, it's dead cold.

  4. And Releford's D might be as good as we've seen here in quite a while. Does he make a mistake?

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jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

Great posts back at ya!

Gotta clean the refs up.

It was a disgrace.

Regarding EJ being streaky like the Microwave, seems a sound analogy.

Plug him in and let him burn my Stouffers. :-)

Teahan also seems a streaky one.

Until Tyshawn's knee injury, Tyshawn's trey shooting gave us three credible corked treys, with Travis waiting to find the range.

I know a lot of folks doubt Travis' trey, maybe even Self, but he's got a shooter's temperament and once he gets really comfortable gluing, I expect him to ding treys at nearly 40%, too.

Four 40 percenters is enough to ensure one is on almost every game, and that's a recipe for March.

Right now a ton hinges on Tyshawn's knee.

And, we are now going to get a lot more looks at Naadir.

But unless Naadir finds "feet quickeners" fast, I suspect Self is going to take us into a lot more Kevin Young.

Kevin Young is going to show up at the three more often, and Trav, or Conner are going to be showing up at the 2 more often, and EJ is going to be the PG quite a bit of the time.

But you never know about guys.

I didn't see a nonlinear leap coming in KY's game.

We can at least hope for same from Naadir.

It is just so good to beat Big Ten teams, no matter what. :-)

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jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

So: in memorium of this perhaps ignominious performance by what seemed Gilded-Age 2.0 refereeing, I will henceforth call this sort of officiating "spread reffing," until right reason can reveal a more credible explanation of its mystery.

Maybe I'm wrong, but c'mon, this seemed pretty suspicious even for this day and age of inexplicably strange refereeing decisions.

It does not seem a stretch to suggest that without the peculiar reffing, KU would probably have won by 20 points without much trouble, and by 3-5 more than 20 had KU been shooting a bit better at the FT line.

Face it, no matter how good Ohio State is without Sullinger, KU shot a fantastically efficient 58.3% from the field and a fusion hot 52.9% from trifectaville.

Compare that to Ohio State shooting a dismal 38.7% from the field and a frost bitten 29.4% from Trinitron.

With those shooting percentages, KU wins by only 11 on its home floor, when KU only had 3 more pop tarts, OSU only had 5 more made FTs, and KU even out-glassvacced Ohio State by 1?

Pardon me while I stop laughing incredulously. :-)

And remember the hypothetical spread reefing, if it were true, actually appeared to cut KU's lead to almost nothing at one point, before the spread-reffing appeared to ease off and let KU stretch the lead out perhaps to something closer to what the media-gambling complex hypothetically found tolerable?

How shall I put this?

It seems a statistical long shot on the order of WTC VII being hit by nothing and falling in its own footprint that the KU-Ohio State game would have been close down the stretch, or that KU would have only won by 11.

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jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

But maybe some of the statistical gurus can set me straight here in a hurry. Maybe there is a ton of data that indicates this sort of thing happens all the time. Maybe my cursory look at one game is even overlooking something obvious in the stats. And I haven't looked that KU game stats for this season yet. Maybe they would refute my suspicion. This is why I am a devotee of looking at the numbers of a game, as well as considering strategy and process. You just never know when you may fool yourself.

Still, I am frankly astonished that more people are not noting the apparent statistical improbability of what occurred on James Naismith Court yesterday.

Here might be some leads for a professional journalist who saw what I saw (if any did):

a) Yesterday, inexplicable refereeing turned what should have been a rout into a close game; or

b) Yesterday, basketball fans witnessed perhaps a one in a million chance of a close game between KU shooting brilliantly and Ohio State, playing without Jarred Sullinger, shooting miserably; or

c) Could it be remotely possible that a media-gaming complex using officials to manage game length and point spreads have caused a close game between hot shooting KU and cold shooting OSU playing without Jared Sullinger?

Surely none of this can be true; this is D1 college basketball we are talking about. Gambling can't corrupt it, can it?

There's gotta be a simpler explanation that is consistent with the facts, right?

Okkham is just out sharpening his Gillette and will shortly return with a simpler hypothesis that can be empirically verified to refute what I seemed to see yesterday.

There's gotta be another more credible explanation, right?

The greatest game ever invented hasn't been reduced to window-fitting and spread-reffing, has it?

(in the voice of a barker at a carnival...)

Holy cow!

Step right up.

We have a winnuh!

(in the words of a child wanting an autograph...)

Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so.

(Note: All opining and speculation.)

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Robert Murphy 2 years, 7 months ago

It has been reported that these referees were seen driving through the Dealy Plaza and that they met on the grassy knoll with some guys wearing sun glasses. Just saying.

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jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

"The Warren Commission thought they had an open-and-shut case. Three bullets, one assassin. But two unpredictable things happened that day that made it virtually impossible. One, the eight-millimeter home movie taken by Abraham Zapruder while standing by the grassy knoll. Two, the third wounded man, James Tague, who was knicked by a fragment, standing near the triple underpass. The time frame, five point six seconds, determined by the Zapruder film, left no possibility of a fourth shot. So the shot or fragment that left a superficial wound on Tague's cheek had to come from the three shots fired from the sixth floor depository. That leaves just two bullets. And we know one of them was the fatal head shot that killed Kennedy. So now a single bullet remains. A single bullet now has to account for the remaining seven wounds in Kennedy and Connelly. But rather than admit to a conspiracy or investigate further, the Warren Commission chose to endorse the theory put forth by an ambitious junior counselor, Arlen Spector, one of the grossest lies ever forced on the American people. We've come to know it as the "Magic Bullet Theory." This single-bullet explanation is the foundation of the Warren Commission's claim of a lone assassin. Once you conclude the magic bullet could not create all seven of those wounds, you'd have to conclude that there was a fourth shot and a second rifle. And if there was a second rifleman, then by definition, there had to be a conspiracy." --Jim Garrison, JFK, 1991 film by Oliver Stone

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Robert Murphy 2 years, 7 months ago

You took the words right out of my mouth. But, how does it explain the referees? Do you think they were in on it?

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jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

LOL! No, they just saw who was on the grassy knoll, same as Dan Rather did! Dan got promoted to CBS NY. They got refereeing careers! :-)

RIM SHOT

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Dyrk Dugan 2 years, 7 months ago

Tyshawn has plenty of heart, and high pain tolerance....and he is a very good leader. it's a great testament to him that he played in this game. basically, we had a one legged point guard out there.

and with that, what does that say about Aaron Craft? Mike DeCoursey was boasting on KC sportstalk radio that he was the best defensive point guard in the major college game since Gary Payton....if that's the case, then we've had some lousy defensive guards in this game the last 25 years. TT gets 13 assists...where was Mr. Craft? Yes, he was fairly impressive....but several of TT''s seven TOs were not forced by Aaron Craft.

I think we just saw our point guard play some pretty darn good basketball against a supposedly gifted defensive player....and our guy won. Pure and simple.

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jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

You're right about TT, but Craft is obviously another decent D1 caliber guard hyped into something he never was.

Josh Selby with a boot on his ankle last year would have eaten Craft alive.

TT with a knew being operated on the day after the game outplayed him. Period.

Ohio State had two fine players.

Buford is one.

Deshaun Thomas is another.

And I like Lenzelle Smith for defense quite a bit as a 20-25 minute man when you can afford no offense out of his slot.

Craft?

C'mon! He'll be a very good guard his junior, or senior years.

But he was in over his head with the senior TT.

Tyrel and Brady from last season could have played the point against Craft yesterday and contained him, too.

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Steve Gantz 2 years, 7 months ago

The big 10 is my first love and Cråft is as good as advertised in my opinion. I've seen him play quite a few games. I didn't think he was totally on his game yesterday. All my opinion of course.

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Robert Murphy 2 years, 7 months ago

I was thinking this might be a good time to thank Tyshawn Taylor for his great contribution to KU basketball. He is surely the most talked about point guard and this is largely due to his unpredictable play. He is a great example of a human being. All humans make mistakes and some of Taylor's are mystifying. And they are all out their for thousands of other humans to see. It is hard for humans to forgive themselves and so often it is hard to forgive others. Empathy and forgiveness are most important qualities and essential for good health. There he goes dribbling into the lane again ending up on his back with the ball going straight up in the air nowhere near the basket. There goes a pass over the head of everybody, what could he be thinking. What should be laughable and entertaining is instead vilified by many from our over obsessed society in its' striving for perfection. Believe me, perfectionism is a slow form of death. There was a recent TED talk on regret which is well worth hearing and it reminded me of all the things I have said and done which have hurt others for which I have regret. No matter how much money we have or how much power or influence we cannot change one iota of the past.

This years KU team has already produced many exciting plays with more to come and the players who have been waiting so long to get in there to show their stuff are doing so. Tyshawn Taylor will go down as one of our best. He is an example of hard work and maximum effort, very human, showing us all our human frailties, and a great basketball player and I for one take my hat off to him.

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jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

Wise. Insightful. And clearly you are one of the new breed of Random Conspiracy Theorists.

These folks believe in the ultra complex conspiracy theory that events too complex are for humans to grasp shape most human and natural phenomena.

This school of conspiracy theory apparently got its start in early reductive magical thinking in prehistoric aboriginal human groups.

It peaked for a time in Medieval religions, when "sky gods did it" became the rationale for all instituted asymmetries.

The enlightenment sent it into eclipse for a time.

But later, when paid rationalizers for oligarchy figured out how to play the science game, guys like Hume discovered arguments like "a ball thrown through a window does not cause the glass to break, rather the ball and the breaking glass are just two coincident events."

This ushered in the era of using philosophy and pseudo science to begin the long slow disconnection of human logic from both localality and causality.

Thus we entered the age of "invisible hand of the market place" and the equally magical Pareto Rationalization, Pareto Optimization. A productive 20% support a lazy 80% and so wealth asymmetry is just a gosh darned inevitability for reasons too complicated to understand.

This logical disconnect eventually dragged all of the academy into anti-inductive age of the algorithm which divorced much research from empirically grounded logics to computerized magical thinking which just happened reinstitute a world allegedly too complicated to understand with institutions that...surprise...asymmetrically redistribute even more wealth upwards, while allowing right-thinkers to conclude that the assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK, were simply coincidental with a random ascent of a private oligarchy. :-)

The Random Conspiracy Theory--the conspiracy of forces too complicated to be understood. The shizz always just happens hypothesis.

It is too complicated to understand why Tyshawn bakes pop tarts.

Just love his virtues and accept his pop tarts as sins from origins only the god of complexity can understand.

Or the sky god of one's choice.

There's not much to be done about things.

And well everything relating to wealth distribution favoring a few is just too complicated to tackle, too.

Capice?

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Mike Kendall 2 years, 7 months ago

I am going to be like Oakville and start a list but I know I can't be Oakville because he is one of a kind---I love ya posts, Oak---so, here goes:

  1)   TT left it on the floor yesterday.    Yep, on some of his turnovers, I found myself rolling my eyes.     And where would we be without TT?    Oh, wait--HCBS has already asked that question.    Good luck on your surgery, Ty.    Turnovers or no turnovers, Jayhawk Nation will miss you.

  2)   Tharpe, please listen to your coaches and improve---improve fast, young fella!

  3)   EJ was stroking it, wasn't he?   And the thing is, he still has so much more room to improve.    Keep it rolling, EJ.

  4)   KY coming off the bench--he had his coming out party, didn't he?    At one point during the game, our bench points compared to OSU was in the lead by double digits.     Kev--keep it rolling.   We need you to bring your "A-game."

  5)    T-Rob, well, was just being T-Rob.    Would have loved to seen JS out there for OSU but Thomas was going to do his thing, whether JS was playing or not.    Anybody get the feeling that this is most likely T-Rob's last year to be in a Jayhawk uniform?     Hey, I am getting ahead of myself.    Lots of tournments to conquer first.

   6)     The Rock Chalk Jayhawk chant was 10 times louder than what it usually is.      It was sounding so sweet on my little TV.

As always, RCJHGKU!

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jhawk613 2 years, 7 months ago

I'm 95% sure it's T-Robs last year. We're bringing in at LEAST 4 scholarship players (Ellis, White, Peters, Lucas), possibly 5 with Adams.

Taylor, Teahen leaving gives us 2. I don't think Juenemann is on scholarship as a Senior. T-Rob leaving would give us 3. If Langford pays for Wesley again that would give us 4.

The 5th may come from a transfer. Merv Lindsay?

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tical523 2 years, 7 months ago

College officials are absolutely horrible and it was bad both ways, they take over the game and it is so frustrating. I can not believe how bad some of the calls are, they anticipate calls too much. I wish that college officials would go by the same rules/ training/ mindset as NBA officials.

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ParisHawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Please, no bad-mouthing Sullinger. Disc problem <> meniscus, there's no comparing. Sullinger tweeted "we lost because we lost, Kansas is a great team" so showed some class, maybe more than his coach. Plus he was very animated on the sideline.

You want to praise Taylor, great, but no need to bring Sullinger into it.

Least reasonable post I've read from you in a long time.

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squintseugene1 2 years, 7 months ago

was that video they showed during the game about the booth family buying the original rules actually going to be shown on ESPN

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BCRavenJHawkfan 2 years, 7 months ago

Travis is defining defensive play at levels that Morningstar wishes he had done last year.

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