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Sunday, November 29, 2009

Keegan

Mangino not living on his knees

Kansas head coach Mark Mangino looks up to the booth during the second quarter, Saturday, Nov. 28, 2009, at Arrowhead Stadium.

Kansas head coach Mark Mangino looks up to the booth during the second quarter, Saturday, Nov. 28, 2009, at Arrowhead Stadium.

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Should Mark Mangino be the head coach of the Kansas Jayhawks next season?

  • Yes 47% 2863 votes
  • No 45% 2729 votes
  • Undecided 7% 453 votes

6045 total votes.

— He didn’t win the thrilling football game Saturday at Arrowhead Stadium, and for that he felt genuinely bad for his players, especially a senior class that won 20 games in the middle two seasons of their careers.

But if someone thinks a seventh loss in a row, this one by a 41-39 margin to chief rival Missouri, means Kansas University football coach Mark Mangino will go away quietly on somebody else’s terms, well, that someone must not ever have encountered a wounded Bear.

Barring the biggest upset in sports history, Mangino has coached his final game at Kansas. Any day now, he’ll reach the end of the plank he has walked for two weeks. He supplied after Saturday’s loss the words that will be carved into the tombstone of his KU tenure: “A friend of mine told me something one time that I think is a very, very good way to go about life, and that is, ‘I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees.’”

He did it his way. He coached using fear and intimidation to establish the two words — “structure” and “discipline” — he said were his marching orders when he took the job he performed for eight seasons. Some of his former players came out with disturbing allegations about the way the coach berated them with a mean-spirited tongue after it became public that the athletic department was investigating Mangino for the way he handled players. After that, players lined up to support him. More of them backed him after Saturday’s loss.

Cut through the words of Mangino and the silence of athletic director Lew Perkins — two smart, hard-headed men accustomed to getting their way — and what remains is a stare-down. Mangino sits at one corner of the playground, Perkins at the other. Smack-dab in the middle sits an estimated $6.6 million. Somewhere in that playground, lawyers will try to find a middle ground, a means of divvying up that money.

Charges leveled by former players through the media already have damaged Mangino’s chances of recruiting football talent. Lori Williams, associate athletic director/risk management, hired by Perkins in September and assigned two weeks ago by him to investigate the football coach, has been interviewing current players and assistant coaches to find out more about Mangino’s approach with players.

Regrets? Mangino has fewer than Frank Sinatra did, and his were too few to mention.

A reporter asked Mangino what he would do if his bosses told him he could keep his job as long as he changed his approached, toned it down.

“You’re coming with the assumption it needs to be toned down,” Mangino said. “I’m going to tell you how I coach is how I coach. Ninety-nine percent of the kids here appreciate it. They appreciate the way I care for them. I make sure they get the best health care, that they’re doing their academics, are working toward a degree. We spend a lot of time counseling players.”

If Mangino’s math is correct about how many of his players appreciate his style, Williams won’t have much of a file. The file, those in the know say, is thick and pre-dates Williams’ report. It didn’t bite the coach until now, in the midst of a losing streak marred with the sort of shaky defense and odd play-calling that undid Kansas in its final possession Saturday, one that ended in a safety.

A reference to unflattering reports of the coach’s treatment of others — such as a student parking-lot attendant — Mangino again defended himself.

“Let me tell you something,” he said, “everybody has a different perception of people, especially when you have a profile such as a college football coach, and I will tell you that I may be one of the more pleasant people to deal with in college football. Trust me.”

And those were the last words he spoke from a game-day podium as Kansas coach, on the losing side for the 48th time against 50 victories. He started with a 12-24 record in three seasons and finished with a seven-game losing streak. In between, he went 38-17, including a 3-0 record in bowl games during that stretch.

Throughout the two-week investigation, senior receiver Kerry Meier was Mangino’s most vocal supporter. Jake Sharp, ever the football player with entire focus trained on the next game, said little until Saturday.

“I’ve got to thank coach for giving me the opportunity to come here to the University of Kansas, and I feel very blessed to have him as my coach,” Sharp said. “With all this stuff going on, he never wavered. He never came to practice halfway. He was all-in. He had us focused in, and we didn’t even worry about it. That’s why earlier in the week I was asked to comment on it, I didn’t even want to talk about it because that was my coach. I have the utmost respect for him and what he’s done for this program. I think everybody else on the outside should, too. ... Coach coaches hard. You can’t fault him for that.”

Junior receiver Dezmon Briscoe, a mega-talent who sometimes does a better job of getting out of the way of tacklers than out of his own way, was emotional in his backing of his coach.

“It’s been hard,” Briscoe said. “He’s taken a lot of criticism, but to me he’s a great guy and a great coach. I go to him sometimes and talk to him about my personal problems. He’s really a helpful guy, and I really hope he returns next year. My high school coach was very tough, and I sometimes tend to put myself in tough situations. I think I need a tough coach.”

He had a tough coach, a little too tough in the eyes of some, and of late not successful enough to survive his flaws.

Comments

Bill Kackley 9 years, 7 months ago

Rock Chalk Mangino. When you see a player like Desmon Briscoe back coach with all the doghouses he had to climb out of, you know the man was doing something right. But if Manginos is going, I hope Lew goes also because he's a city slicker who has slicked us out of the best coach we have had in 60 years. If KU doesn't give the man his whole contract price or at least a very large portion of it then shame on KU. Lew doesn't care about the average person. We have been able to see that with his season ticket plan which took seats away from loyal fans and gave them to the guys with the fattest wallets. Go back to the East coast where they appreciate your con job Perkins. We need a real person to head the athletic department. I bet Bob Frederick is turning over in his grave.

rwpete 9 years, 7 months ago

We'll be lucky to get a decent coach after the way Mangino has been treated by the athletic department.

minipman 9 years, 7 months ago

well..at the end of the day..i will say i loved the look of the uniforms...but the O-Coordinator is the one to be fired not Mangino..along with Lew!

Jonathan Briles 9 years, 7 months ago

Well our eyes are on Randy Edsall. He is out of UCONN and Lew Wanted him when he first got here. Now that Mangino looks to be done Edsall looks to be on top of Lew's Wish list. While most coaches would probably not want the Kansas Job Lew and Randy had a really good relationship back in UCONN where Lew came from. If Lew can create a nice deal for him it is not out of the question for him to come here. For those who do not know anything about Edsall he is a fairly good coach who has turned in at least 8 wins in 4 or his last 7 seasons. His team is currently only 6-5 but his losses come from North Carolina, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, and Cincinnati. All of those losses come from a combined 15 points. Their Largest loss comes by 4 points and 3 of the 5 teams they lost to were ranked at the time. I would love to see this guy come to KU because did anyone think of UCONN as anything more than a basketball school a few years ago. Some people still do but there are quite a few people who think of them as both now and I think he can bring that here. As for the other great option there is always Turner Gil. He is at Buffalo right now and I'm sure that he has a lot of support and love there but it might be appealing for him to get to come to a BCS school and in the Conference that he played in. I'm not saying that we will get either of them but there is a very good shot at landing either of them and I would like to see either of them come here. I love and respect Mangino but what has happened this season and kind of last is not really excusable. I do think that he is a good coach but I think he is better suited as a coordinator. I wish him the best of luck whether he stays here or moves on. I'm ready for a little change and hopefully some wins.

molly13 9 years, 7 months ago

Why exactly is a big deal being made now over Mangino?? I mean these are "past" players(hint on the past) and why are they just bringing all this to light now?? If Mangino is/was so terrible to them, why didn't these guys say something when they were part of the team and get it resolved then?? I have seen many coaches that are very structured and disciplined with their teams and I've seen and heard coaches that have been down right vulgar to their players....and have always seen the vulgar ones get disciplined themselves. Is this hoopla more about KU not winning and have a bad year or is it about Mangino being his own person and coach with Lew not liking that he can't get his way???? Mangino has turned around KU football to be a respected team in the Big 12 and why are they gonna take the risk and throw that away?? All it really comes down to is the University needs to look at the athletic head honchos and see what their priorities are and put them in their place and leave those that know the sport alone.

Lance Hobson 9 years, 7 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Mike Barnhart 9 years, 7 months ago

Mangino's winning percentage is not good enough to overcome his shortcomings. His health, his temper and his inability to charm alums are not good for a program trying to build a new fan base.

Lew Perkins needs a steadier hand and a guy that the fans will support even in down years (1-7 is not down ...it's a disaster!)

Mangino brought KU to the middle of the pack but now struggles to sustain it. His work here is done.

beebe1 9 years, 7 months ago

MM can't do it all! And his biggest problems are coaching Defense and Special Teams! When he pitched in to defense, both this year and last, the team got a little better. But he did too much. In hind sight, the pooch kickoff cost us a game. MM called it. The defense played as well as they could, they are talented. But the schemes are wrong; they turned the wrong way; no one accounted for all the potential receivers; and cover two and cover four are a version of Prevent, doomed to failure except as an emergency when you are rushing the line backers to get a sack. MM called the Offensive plays last night. Was he wrong the last series? We used no time clock and they got the ball with plenty of time. If the plays worked -- great. They didn't work.

No real reason for MM to go -- he just needs capable help! There probably aren't more than a couple dozen Defensive experts out there. We can't get one from the pro-s; the others work for one of those undefeated ranked teams. It's just too bad MM didn't get the message last year and upgrade in time. It may be too late now.

The rotten smell coming out of the department started with Lew -- that's the one to go!

And the right choice for HC is Kelly. He is an expert on Defense. Look at what he did for Cinti! And his pay level is half what MM gets. He should be the candidate, if he'll even talk to us.

Steve Brown 9 years, 7 months ago

Mr. Cellar Dwellar fell into Pinkle trap when he showed us a defense that double dogged dared us to throw the ball, as Pinkle knew that if we ran it up the middle three times for just a total 3 yard gain and ran the most clock he would decrease his chances of scoring more than a field goal for a tie.

Mr. Cellar Dwellar fell for it and stopped the clock with two passes, just as Pinkle dared him to do. Then the saftey.

before all of this who was coached to stop the kickoff to fall on it, so it wouldn't roll to the one yard line.

All this body of work by a coach who was told BRING in discipline and end up as Mr. Cellar Dwellar. to what ends.

Steve Brown 9 years, 7 months ago

His very first coaching job in Pennsylvania high school he was run out of town after one season....same as his last coaching job in Mt. Oread....zebras don't change their spots.

Steve Brown 9 years, 7 months ago

Lew & Lori, Players and their mommies, and Coach and his anger, a mexican standoff, (those don't know rent clint eastwood in good, bad ugly and watch the ending: three guns only one can live) fact is clint knew one gun had no shells.

No one wanted a bowl game but the fans. MM since you refused to resign the stand off couldn't sustain another 4-6 weeks of practice with you at the helm. The AD, the mommiesand their sons, the assistants couldn't continue another week with a lame duck coach. Not in the cards. A win meant more bonding time not less. You should have been suspended last week, subject pending review.

Coach if you are looking for your stuff from your office last week, it's in the loading zone where you regularly illegally parked your car.

Jason Bailey 9 years, 7 months ago

Strikewso (anonymous) says...

"Lori Williams doesn't know jack-all about football. She needs to go powder her nose while the men figure this out. Football is a dangerous sport and requires toughness and discipline, there is no way a woman would understand."

Now there's a stellar example of a neanderthal. You should be proud of your sexism, Strikewso. 1925 called...they want their sexist rants back.

Steve Brown 9 years, 7 months ago

Dear Mr. Cellar Dwellar: Leadership means taking personal responsibility. I listended to your post game and not once did you take any personal responsibility for the play calling, the time clock management, the season of finishing last in the league. It was injuries, dropped balls, poor field position, BS. You tried to say the right things, Oh I don't blame Briscoe, or I don't blame our injured QB he played tough, then you said he couldn't plant his feet get good leverage on the ball....

My nieghbor said he didn't blame his wife for the burnt turkey dinner, but he went on to say her oven was too high, she left for a long drive while theturkey was burning and she didn't tent with foil, but he didn't blame her for his loss, after giving all the things she did to ruin his season, I meant dinner. He cataloged every error, but didn't blame her and he wasn't going on his knees to eat at our house. We shared our dinner with his wife and told him to keep on walking.

Maracas 9 years, 7 months ago

Mangino hasn't done anyone any favors. He makes millions, yes millions, to do what he does. He doesn't coach out of the kindness of his heart. There is no excuse to go 1-7 in the Big XII North, one of the worst divisions in all of college football, and not in a year where its worse than usual. That lone win was nearly a loss.

I don't feel sorry for the man one bit. He could be canned on this year's failure alone. It's not the players who failed, it's the coaches. The program is regressing. Time to make changes and move on.

Steve Brown 9 years, 7 months ago

Lew how can you asked us to renew our FB season tix and do it this monday, if we don't know if Mr. Cellar Dwellar will be back or not.

I wouldn't want to miss another exciting clock management demonstration. As well as watch him take those kids some of which have little parental direction for 18 years, (his words not mine) and mold them into something respectible, so they don't have to return to their homies. (his words not mine)

to all your relief, I'm done posting, excuse me while I go kick the cat.

Late & out.

jayhawkinATL 9 years, 7 months ago

Forget Mangino, I want Bowen gone!!!!!!!

Steve Yeakel 9 years, 7 months ago

“A friend of mine told me something one time that I think is a very, very good way to go about life, and that is, ‘I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees.’” Mangino, your friend is Satan. Pride goeth before a fall, and rightfully so. Your failure to respect authority, whether of your boss the AD, or the high school ref, or the parking authority, and yet insist that everyone respect yours, is the definition of a hypocrite.

thmdmph 9 years, 7 months ago

Amen jason2007. Unless you personally know Lori Williams, don't assume to know what she knows/doesn't know. If she didn't return your calls after a one night stand, then, that's a different story.

As for Randy Edsall from UCONN, I get goose pumps. I just have a bad feeling about LEW recruiting him because I could very much see that that's how KU will get themselves in the same contractual/financial problems as KSU did with Ron Prince. Especially considering how LEW has screw us the last couple of weeks.

kurules 9 years, 7 months ago

We do NOT want Edsall here. He may be a great X's & O's coach but he has no ties to recruiting the midwest (Texas & Oklahoma) which are keys to whether or not KU is successful. The Big 12 is totally different than back east. I'm not saying there aren't good players back east but in order for KU to be competitive, they must be able to recruit around here. Turner Gill would be a much better hire for that reason alone. Edsall would be a disaster and set our program back several years until we get a coach that has connections in the midwest.

Bill Kackley 9 years, 7 months ago

LIGHThalk I was wrong you are heavy with all the s--- you sling.

WilburNether 9 years, 7 months ago

That's an ignorant comment about Edsall and recruiting. It's the assistants who will have the regional ties to recruit a given area. For example, does Bill Self have ties to New York, New Jersey, Washington DC? Of course not. That's Joe Dooley's turf (and Norm Roberts until he left), and look at the fine basketball players who have come from the East Coast to play at KU. That is not KU's "natural" recruiting turf, and you may recall that Roy hardly ever even attempted to land a player from that area. If Edsall is our next coach, he personally would not need to have ties in TX and OK, as long as he has assistants who do. If he's smart, and his record suggests that he is, he will take care to hire assistants with ties to those areas where KU can recruit best.

Kevin Long 9 years, 7 months ago

They will all be gone and we will have an entirely new staff next year. There is no way a new coach keeps Bowen after his disaster of a season. We had to give up the most yards after the catch of anyone in the country. Bottom line is they were picked to win the north and finished dead last and on a 7 game losing streak. That is not going to cut it. And the play calling was terrible almost all season too. Goodbye Mark!

jayhawkintexas 9 years, 7 months ago

Help Wanted: One football coach for a major Division I midwestern university located in high profile football conference. Must be able to abuse players, insult parents about their lack of parenting ability, have a caustic personality, refuse to accept responsibility for bone-headed play calling during games, have very poor media relations skills, disrespect others' authority such as parking attendants, incapable of developing a defense to stop opponents, and have a losing conference record.

Oh wait, that's what we have now. Never mind!!

jayhawkboogeyman 9 years, 7 months ago

"Barring the biggest upset in sports history, Mangino has coached his final game at Kansas."

What are you talking about?

John Pritchett 9 years, 7 months ago

Anyone who has ever played a sport knows how weak these charges are. This has nothing to do with Coach's ability or personality, this has to be personal. Someone decided they wanted him gone and the past few weeks have been an effort to make that happen. I have heard nothing that rises to the level of even a reprimand, yet we're being told our coach is being fired. Every person has enemies, and a coach has more than most. If he doesn't, he's probably coaching grade-school girl's soccer, not NCAA d1 football. But those people are there, always have been, and now they're being used as an excuse to fire our coach. If you want someone gone, look for a reason and you'll probably find one. But don't pretend that you're just doing what needs to be done.

I wish I knew who was behind this so I could direct my anger and disgust at one or a few individuals rather than at the university as a whole. Mangino made me a KU football fan, just as Roy WIlliams made me a basketball fan. If Mangino is fired, at the very least I will be returning to the commonly held attitude that KU is just a basketball school. Most likely that will be the reality anyway. I enjoyed these few bright years of KU football immensely, and I'll appreciate the memory of them. But I doubt they'll come again in the near future. On the other hand, some school is going to pick up a great coach, and the future looks bright for them. This won't hurt Mangino as much as it'll hurt KU, and that's the sad fact.

Someone is in a pissing match with coach, and we're the ones getting pissed on. That's the bottom line.

kc_wildfire 9 years, 7 months ago

A brief look at Mangino's tenure...

19-21 against the Big XII North

13 of his 50 wins have come against these powerhouse programs...

~Jacksonville St. ~Florida Atlantic ~Northwestern St. ~Louisiana-Monroe ~SE Louisiana ~Appalachian St. ~Sam Houston St. ~SW Missouri St. ~Northern Colorado ~Florida International x2 ~Lousiana Tech x2

Bye, bye Mangino!

LawHawk2011 9 years, 7 months ago

Phogdog "Mangino made me a KU football fan, just as Roy WIlliams made me a basketball fan." So you're a front-runner, fair weather, and bandwagon fan all in one. Despicable. KU football will be better off without "fans" like you.

The damage is done. Lew, go get us one hell of a coach or you're next.

John Percival 9 years, 7 months ago

It was a punt, not a kickoff - and it killed us. No excuse for not picking it up.

okiedave 9 years, 7 months ago

Whatever happened to honoring a contract. Lew signed a contract with Mangino. Now Lew wants out and has hired a female lawyer to make a case against Mangino to remove him without honoring the salary that Mangino wanted to execute a long term contract. Is Lew trying to pretend he did not know Mangino was a tough disciplinarian? When Mangino was coach of the year and won the orange bowl, it would have been generous for Lew to tell Mangino to go find another home now while the pickings are easy, because you are too much of a disciplinarian and poke players in the chest and we cannot have that here. I think Lew needs to honor his commitments for good or for bad. Like a marriage. If Mangino needs to stop the chest poking, then simply tell him -- no more chest poking. Lew, do the right thing -- honor your commitments to others.

deepind 9 years, 7 months ago

Well said kc_wildfire!

What I would like to see in the next football coach's contract is something like this... if KU doesn't win the Big12 North or a BCS Bowl within the next 5 years it gives KU reasonable cause to fire the coach. If a coach can have a clause saying that he gets a bonus for winning games, why not have a clause giving the university to fire them for NOT winning enough games? Or have a clause like this... at the end of every year the "performance of the coach" will be evaluated and poor evaluation will give KU reasonable cause to fire the coach. The elements of performance will include things like number of wins, ability to charm alums with fat wallets, number of star recruits signed, etc.

Isn't this how most employees (anywhere in the world) are treated by their employer?? If you do a good job we'll reward you... if you don't do a good job (according to the employer's judgement) the employer will fire you.

yates33333 9 years, 7 months ago

Hopefully, this will be an honest investigation and the "investigator" will balance the bad comments with the good comments. On the surface it appears that the best players endorse the coach, which ought to tell you something. Players that do not do well are naturally prone to complaining. So far as Mangino losing games he has done better than his immediate predecessors. KU is no longer the laughing stock of NCAA 1 football, ranked beyond 100. Keep Mangino through his contract then evaluate him relative to what can be hired to replace him. I think he will be in Lawrence longer than 10 years if he chooses. I imagine he would like to tell Perkins to take it and shove it up where the sun never shines, but he likes the job. Hang in there big man. P.S. eat a little less, maybe a lot less.

RunningBeaker84 9 years, 7 months ago

All I can say is that any football coach who wins, does it with discipline and "tough love" for his/her players. If Mangino is too tough for you, then get Dr. Phil to coach. If not, they quit your complaining. I, like most of you are upset about how this season unfolded after week 5. But in years past like many of you, I was not as excited about our football program at all. Now a "L" sticks with me for a couple of days. Mangino hung "W"'s on the board and but butts in the seats. I appreciate what he has done for KU Football, for school, and for the fans and alumni.

John Pritchett 9 years, 7 months ago

LawHawk2011, I don't think you're getting my point. I won't stop following KU football just because they're probably going to go back to being the Big12 bottomfeeders that they've traditionally been, I'll stop following KU football because I'm sickened by the way this is going down. The KU football program and KU athletic department in general doesn't deserve fans like me if this kind of crap goes on. This is embarrassing. I'm not going to waste my very limited time cheering on a football program that is this self-destructive. Who needs the heartache. But you enjoy yourself.

And btw, since I've been a KU sports fan since you were in diapers, I don't thnk you can call me fair-weather.

We'll see how much better KU football will be without "fans like me", and without a coach like Mangino. It'll be interesting to see where we go from here. Does the program continue to rise, or does it sink back to where it has tended to be? I'm putting my money on the latter. Can a program put millions into facilities and then air its dirty laundry to destroy a coach, and still expect to be a prominent football program? I just don't think it can. So yeah, I'm out, and if that makes me a fair-weather fan, so be it.

hawkfanI 9 years, 7 months ago

How many of us that don't belong to a union have assurances or a contract stating that they will never lose their job? Kansas is a "right to work" state which means your employment can be terminated at about any time. ADLP didn't hire HCMM and he has been looking for the window of opportunity to clean that shelf since he came on board. HCMM prolonged his life in 07 by having an opportunistic season. As much as HCMM has done for the FB program, the writing has been on the wall since ADLP came on board. We all hope that we don't have an employer that isn't as callous as Lou but when it comes down to it, it's about the $ and HCMM will soon be forgotten.

Lance Hobson 9 years, 7 months ago

Jason2007,

It's 2009 and still there aren't any women playing football. Newsflash, no change in the last 100 years unless you count Colorado's kicker. I suspect Lori Williams has never played football and certainly never experienced a D1 football practice.

You wouldn't have a football coach conduct an airline crash investigation, and a woman shouldn't be investigating a football program.

babyjay1 9 years, 7 months ago

Jason - thanks, I couldn't have said it better. Strikewso - you are some kind of Neanderthal - sorry, maybe that's too big a word for you! What kind of idiot acts that way? Amazing that there are still small men in the world who think women aren't smart or tough enough to do a "man's job" - get real and go back to Mizzery because that appears to be where you came from!

babyjay1 9 years, 7 months ago

Strikewso, your last comment just sealed your stupidity! I won't even try to explain since I'm sure it will be far above your ability to comprehend. Still, you do live in the Dark Ages but I'm sure you are aware of that as you must surround yourself with others who also live there. People should always be respected for their opinions on this site; however, complete lunacy should be avoided..... FYI - I will be buying my 2010 football tix on Monday because I will continue to support my Hawks! Rock Chalk!!!!!!

hawkfanI 9 years, 7 months ago

Strikewso, don't you think that was precisely why Lou put a woman in charge of the investigation?

Gordon Penny 9 years, 7 months ago

Jiminy Christmas, sounds like Keegan is again trying to play God and fire Mangino already. Keegan, stick to reporting, and let Lew stick to Athletic Directing.

okiedave 9 years, 7 months ago

Babyjay1 -- Strikewso may not be politically correct, but he makes makes his point with no doubt about his point. My wife has several times stated, "if women ruled the world there would be no more war, no boxing and football would not be so rough." Women just do not fully appreciate male perspective about many things, and visa versa. When I was in college, it became politically correct to believe that there were no differences between men and women -- it was only a matter of social training. Now all the women who aggessively forged this opinion have raised both boys and girls in a socially equal manner and have come to the conclusion that they were wrong. There are differences. I do not know Lori (for all I know she may be a 250 lb. mud wrestler with a law degree), however, my concern is that Lori will be much like my wife and K.U. football will have a mandate to be less "rough" and hire a coach who believes that boys should be treated on the football field as all mothers would want their boys to be treated -- because I can assure you that OU, TU, TTU and NU are not going to follow that course.

P.S. I think that women should rule the world because no more war would be worth it, but I would miss boxing and contact football.

troutsee 9 years, 7 months ago

jjjjhok--you are right on as usual. Totally agree.

hawkone 9 years, 7 months ago

OK so it is very possible that regardless of right or wrong tha Lew will get his way. Edsall is not the right guy. If we are going after a new coach we do not need to target someone at his level of success. To have a championship team you must have a championship coach. My guess is that Chris Peterson at Boise State loves his winning seasons, but is tiring of not getting respect from the BCS machine and never having an opportunity to even play in a National Title game. KU needs to step up and offer the money it would take to bring Peterson to KU. We need a high caliber coach to go with our new facilities and our strong recruiting class. Not only would a Peterson hire allow us to keep the recruits we have been traacking but also draw more high talent recruits. If Lew doesn't at least make an offer to Peterson then he doesn't have a clue what the football program needs. If he brings Edsall in then this will forever be a school known as one that allowed its AD to fire one employee to give a friend a job. I don't want to be associated with that type of man.

babyjay1 9 years, 7 months ago

Sorry Okiedave, this has nothing to do with football being a tough sport. And I never said it shouldn't be and I'm not like your wife - I believe football should be a tough, physical sport. HOWEVER, I do believe in respect and I'll say it again - MM was very disrespectful of players, their backgrounds, and their parents (if this is all true, which I don't know and neither do any of you). I believe we need someone who represents KU well, and I don't believe that MM can go into a recruits' home and have his mom(and that is who makes many decisions I can assure you) want her son go to a school where her parenting abilities may be called out for all the public to hear. Also, Strikewso is a Neanderthal. His point may have been made but it was made in a very poor way and in a way that points out that he cares very little about a persons' true qualifications, since all he knows about Lori is that she's a woman... nuff said....

Phoggin_Loud 9 years, 7 months ago

If Mangino's tenure is indeed over, Edsall, Gill, and Peterson would be historic disappointments. I've seen enough "small conference" and first-time coaches fail. This "witch hunt" better not have been formed to hire one of these guys. At the very least, I would like Tuberville or Phil Fulmer. However, I don't think either of these guys would take the job. This is the problem. Lew better find a guy with some Cache' who can recruit and bring more talent here. If he wants KU to be a national program (and sell out his East-Side Suites), he better find a guy with big conference winning experience. You're supposed to be well-connected, Lew. Prove it!! KU Football coaching jobs have been either a stepping-stone or a tomb-stone. Either way, I'm not particularly excited with any of this crap.

hawkone 9 years, 7 months ago

I agree with you Phoggin_Loud on the fact that if we want to be great we cannot bring in another mid-major coach. I do however, think that Peterson has proven to be the top of the litter in the small conference landscape though. I hope that we would take the leap and pay big money to bring in a major coach like Tubervile or Fulmer, as they were the first two available coaches i thought of as well. I think we can pull a big name coach if we are willing to spend the cash to move to the next level of competition. However, I think Lew is going to take us down the wrong path. Judging from the link below, it has already begun. I hope this is not the best we can do because this hire would keep us middle of the crowd.

http://www.collegefantasyfootballinsider.com/news/14289/Another-rumor-Randy-Edsall-Kansas

djhawk75 9 years, 7 months ago

How can one watch the last seven games--especially the last three minutes of the Missouri game--and not want to fire this coaching staff? Mangino is a good coach, but good coaches get torched in the Big XII. And this is about as good as it gets with this staff: flirting with the possibility of a mediocre bowl game every year, but not always making the mark. It's time to let them go and find a better staff.

Jim Sanders 9 years, 7 months ago

As long at Bowen is gone, all will be okay.

thmdmph 9 years, 7 months ago

Strikewso, I'm not one to go around calling people I don't know names, but from your posting, you do sound very ignorant. I don't know Lori's qualifications to say if she's right to lead this circus act or not, but to say that she's not qualified because she's a female or because she doesn't have D1 football experience is pure ignorance.

I'm not sure how much life experiences you've had, but just sit back and you'll see people everywhere making decisions about things they've never actively participated. That's the human potential is most of us. Look at the world leaders (presidents, prime ministers, dictators, etcc....) who make economic, war, construction, education, healthcare decisions without ever participating in those fields. [And please do not go into politics and nit pick about individual decisions/policies and please do not go into Bush vs. Obama]. Judges make decisions about gang related issues, drugs, murder, divorces, real estates ... issues all the time without personal experiences. The 9/11 investigators didn't have to have had experiences in terrorism, flying airplanes, sky scraper, and psychology to do their job. A teacher can teach literature without ever having to write a book. Sarah Palin can claim international diplomacy without... Oh sorry. Forgot, no politics!!!!

By the same token, don't go around telling people you have to have a set of frank and beans in addition to having been knocked around a few times on the turf before you can investigate football related activities.

rcjh22 9 years, 7 months ago

I suggest a new title for this article.

Maracas 9 years, 7 months ago

"If Mangino's tenure is indeed over, Edsall, Gill, and Peterson would be historic disappointments."

Edsall and Peterson maybe, but not so fast on Gill. He was known at NU as a stellar recruiter, knows the Big8/12, and has ties in Texas (he's from Ft. Worth). By all accounts he's a class act, too. So he isn't tearing things up in Buffalo? It's Buffalo, for crying out loud. One of ESPN's perennial bottom 10. Pete Carroll isn't going to make Buffalo a powerhouse, either.

Someone will give Gill a chance pretty soon in the BCS conferences. I have no problem with it if we're the ones who do it.

okiedave 9 years, 7 months ago

uh Babyjay1 -- You say "MM was very disrespectful of [players] backgrounds and their parents..., Also, Strikewso is a Neanderthal." My question is: What do you have against Neanderthals and his Neanderthal parents? If you were a football coach, do you think you should be terminated for disrespecting Strikewso and his heritage and parents? Neanderthals have contributed greatly to the existence of the human race.

fansincewilt 9 years, 7 months ago

I had the privilege of playing football in high school - not good enough for college. I was always tackling too high. The coach warned me over and over to tackle lower. He told me the next time I head tackled he was going to show me what a good back would do to me. I did and he did. He laid his unhelmeted head in my mid-section. I thought I was going to spill my insides right there on the field. I made it a point to tackle lower from then on. It sure is a good thing my mom wasn't there and a lot of other moms. Maybe there are some guys you can just tell in a nice way what they are supposed to do to get the job done. Some, however, need a little more encouragement. I believe it was a mistake to undercut this coach in the middle of the season. I doubt he would have the support of these guys if he didn't also have their respect. I appreciate my high school coach for caring enough about me to demonstrate in a very forceful way how to get the job done. I turned out to be a decent player.

okiedave 9 years, 7 months ago

We have had 36 football coaches at K.U. They only average about 4 years and then they are fired or hired away. If Lew will not keep MM, which I personally believe is going to be Lew's biggest mistake which will ultimately bring Lew's downfall, Lew should try to locate the genetic heir of E.M. Hopkins (1891): 7-0-1, .938 win average. Most winning average of any coach in K.U. history. He lasted one year.

babyjay1 9 years, 7 months ago

Seriously Okiedave - that was ridiculous. Yep, he's a Neanderthal but I guess if he wants to be one in 2009, then go right ahead. Good grief, this has all gotten absurd. If you think Strikewso is right in his posts, I don't really care but I will continue to say that his portrayal of a woman's abilities to do a job that he feels should be done by a "man" are ridiculous. AND, I will continue to say that I want a coach that does takes responsibility for his job and does not lay blame in other places (such as on parents). If you don't agree, that's fine. We'll all move on once this decision is made and I for one, hope that is soon!!!!

Steve Brown 9 years, 7 months ago

zebras don't have spots, poor play on words, meant to mean, leopards have spots, zebras have stripes and MM was run out of town in HS coaching career after just one year....his pattern of abuse/firm handed discipline (insert your own version) was evident back then.

poor attempt to give eveyrone credit that some of you see MM with spots and some with stripes, supporters or detractors, but his nature is consistent. and a pattern.

Jayhacker 9 years, 7 months ago

"You wouldn't have a football coach conduct an airline crash investigation, and a woman shouldn't be investigating a football program."

Strikewso, that's embarassingly macho talk from a back-seat riding, head-down scoping, no-flying passenger...I suppose you think YOU could sit in on an airline crash investigation? Using your 19th century logic, only PILOTS would conduct airline crashes, not other qualified individuals in the flight community. I guess that would leave you out, eh? Ms. Williams isn't being asked to render a decision on Mangino's qualifications as a football coach, but rather on his behavior as a top-level representative of KU. She certainly doesn't have to ever have buckled on a chin strap or hit a 2-man sled to do that. Please take your caveman approach to another board where it won't be mistakenly interpreted to be the prevailing attitude in Lawrence or at my university.

escaped_labrat 9 years, 7 months ago

Jimhawks: "As long at Bowen is gone, all will be okay."

I must say I completely agree with that. As far as I'm concerned, all the fans moaning and complaining about MM have the right to their opinions, but I am 100% in support of retaining Coach Mangino throughout the end of his contract at the least. I have observed that our recruiting has improved each year that he's been here and aside from the defensive coaching of the last two years with Bowen (I know he's tried very hard) that we are still a sound team with sound and improving players from year to year. Our defense has really struggled this season and last.....Bowen was calling the shots. Let's try to get a good Defensive mind in here for a couple of years and see if that makes a big difference.

If we don't keep MM, then I would prefer someone like Patterson from TCU and lure him in with some cash and selling by Lew. The guy is phenomenal and I think we would definitely prosper, but I'd still rather keep Coach Mangino.

Todd 9 years, 7 months ago

While I realize that coach Mangino is probably gone, I think Keegan needs to go more than he does. I'm tired of these smug, self-serving articles that he writes. The worst was when he questioned the timing of the investigation when it has been reported that he is the one that pretty much forced the athletic department to make the announcement. He has continuously said that Mangino has no chance of staying when quite frankly I could see the situation where it happens. But oh I forgot, Keegan thinks he can make all this happen because he writes about it. Get rid of this idiot too if Mangino goes.

babyjay1 9 years, 7 months ago

Don't worry Jayhacker - I attended undergrad and grad school at KU (many years ago) and even then, would never have thought someone who actually attended KU, much less attained a degree from KU or lived in my beloved Lawrence would actually think like that :) I realize that most men (and women) have evolved way beyond that!

blackhawkjayhawk 9 years, 7 months ago

Let's get real about a new coach. No one leaves a BCS school to come to Kansas. Edsel would continue our stretch as the Indiana of Big 12 football. You have three choices: An assistant from a top program, a head coach at a mid-major/up-and-comer, or a wild card. To me, the best choice out there right now is Marty Schottenheimer. Proven winner, college-like enthusiasm and KU connections.

One thing is for sure: this hire will determine Lew's fate at KU. Screw it up, and go ahead and make your retirement villa reservation.

kureader 9 years, 7 months ago

It's interesting that very few posts comment about whether MM should be terminated for misconduct. That's the issue. Phogdog is right. None of MM's actions mentioned so far rise to the level needed to terminate a coach "for cause". Anyone who has played college football, and most who haven't, can think of many examples of coach behavior that dwarfs anything known about MM so far. Lew knew about MM's conduct when he recently extended MM's contract thru 2012 and threw in a retention bonus of $1.5mm to induce MM to stay to the end. Now, Lew wants out. But, he doesn't want to honor his part of the deal, so he's trumping up or exaggerating claims about MM's conduct ... which is about the only way he can escape KU's obligation to pay MM millions of dollars. We all know that Lew will do lots of things for money. He's at it again. Lew, if you want to fire MM for losing 7 games, because he's fat, because you don't like him, because YOU have a better guy in mind, or for any other reason, fine. But, you're manipulating the situation so you can terminate MM "for cause" and save some money. You're not fooling anyone, and you're unfairly treating a guy who isn't perfect, but who has worked very hard to improve KU's football program. Let's just hope YOUR next guy can win another Orange Bowl ... or, maybe it'll be time to discuss YOUR departure.

okiedave 9 years, 7 months ago

Well said kureader. If Lew fires MM, I think the Board of Regents should give Lew 1 year to get another BCS gig or refuse to extend Lew's contract. It's on his shoulders to make a perfect decision as to a head coach and he had better not screw it up because MM has brought in a lot of great recruits for the new Head Coach.

okiedave 9 years, 7 months ago

jayhacker -- c'mon man. Don't you honestly believe a person with a piloting background, who knows flying, who understands the perils first hand would have a much better perspective about what went wrong in an airplane crash than somebody who has never flown an airplane?

Who do they interview when a crash happens? History majors? no. Political science majors? no. Pilots? you bet. Pilots are experts when it comes to flying and what can happen to make a plane come down?

I would not want somebody armed with a history degree or political science degree or a law degree telling me how K.U.'s football program should be run and how to coach or not coach. I want somebody who has been in the trenches and understands the coaching environment and what it takes to build a football program and win. Interestingly, Mangino helped build the KSU program and the OU program under Stoops. I think Mangino qualifies as an expert in that area.

I suspect that a lawyer doing an investigation will probably come up with some silly result suggesting that chest poking is "assault and battery" and may expose the University to litigation. It will likely be a lawyer who has done zero reseach in regard to the number of lawsuits filed and the results of those lawsuits filed by football players against Universities for chest poking or any other alleged Mangino wrongs, and what damages, if any, were awarded. Her job is to instill sufficient fear into University Regents to fire Mangino for causing them fear.

MNHawk23 9 years, 7 months ago

why are so many people acting like mangino is some kind of god?? im sorry if someone has already said this, i havent read all the comments but what exactly makes him a spectacular coach?

A good way to judge a coach is take out his best year and his worst year and see what you get. also looking to see if the program is continuing to climb. without the best and worst seasons his conference records are (3-5) (2-6) (3-5) (3-5) (3-5) (1-7). that's 15-33 (31%) or 22-42 in all 8 years. Lets say for a second he isnt verbally abusive, and doesnt have a huge anger problem, and lets pretend he has a good relationship with the players. do you honestly not think kansas football can do better than this??? Mizzou in a "down year" went 4-4 in conference this year.. why do they get to have that but somehow mangino is the greatest we'll ever have?

Mangino has a total of 4 top 25 wins.. in 8 years.. in about 20 tries. our greatest home wins were against mediocre mizzou and nebraska teams in '03 and '05.

i think maybe people have a distorted view of this programs growth because now the fans are filling the stadium and there is overall more excitement surrounding football in lawrence. a lot of that has to do with '07 but thats up to the fans to keep that going.

KU football can do better than this. like mangino said before the season we dont need to be satisfied with 7 or 8 wins and have everyone think thats ok.. we want to compete for championships. well weve only had 3 seasons of 7 wins with him.

bottom line, i actually like mangino, but KU football can do better. we need a new coach. one with some class

Jayhacker 9 years, 7 months ago

Okiedave, you're making my point for me. By his own ID ("wsostrike" = "weapons systems officer / strike), he is telling us he is NOT a pilot, but the second-in-command on a USAF attack aircraft. I believer that when the FAA or a branch of the military investigate a crash, there are LOTS of different individuals with LOTS of different backgrounds involved (aeronautical engineering types, electronics / communications types, ground safety experts, etc.), not just pilots. The real truth in the matter is that he is singling out Ms. Williams NOT because she didn't play football, but because she is a woman. That kind of misogynistic sexist drivel is what prompted my earlier comment.

Steve Brown 9 years, 7 months ago

folks on both sides do we have consensus on these points:

  1. Cellar Dwellar is done as our coach.
  2. sooner rather than later we get replacement in place the sooner we get back to recruiting wars.
  3. Whether he gets $6 million, $600k, or nothing ( due to actions clause in his contract) depends upon the leverage from the discovery in the investigation/report. If no actions worthy of termination, then he is gone but with more money, on other hand if a pile of (so far unrevealed) abuse, he gets less money. So, the report is about his goodbye money, not whether he stays or departs.

Does anyone think the report is about his staying or going, or do we all agree the report and what if finds is about how much his departure will cost us all?

correct?

thmdmph 9 years, 7 months ago

I'm new to posting on this site, but man, there are some idiots on this page.

First, there's this dildo Strikewso guy who starts making ignorant sexist rants about somebody he doesn't know anything about. "Football is a dangerous sport and requires toughness and discipline, there is no way a woman would understand." Yes dildo. Lawyers should never investigate, prosecute, of defend cases for which they have no personal experience. And definitely, how can females understand anything about football. Just look, lawyers all need to have practiced medicine before they can investigate medical malpractice lawsuits. They have to boated before they can investigate boating accidents. They have to have had a divorce before they can handle divorce cases. They have to be a female who's been sexually assaulted before they can prosecute a rape case. When Mike Tyson bit of Evander Holyfield's ear, any lawyers involved had to have been a boxer. Enough said. If he doesn't get it by now, he'll never get it.

Then, there's the dodo's that came to dildo's defense such as Maxhawk and okiedave. These dodos con't to make assumptions about somebody they know nothing about. "Let's be honest what does she know about football coaches in general?" Maxhawk, the next time you need a lawyer, even if you can't afford one and has to be appointed a public defender, make sure to ask him/her what s/he knows about dodo's to make sure she's qualified.

Then there's okiedave. I'm so glad to have a first class pilot posting comments. Not only is he a pilot, but one that knows so much about the steps involved in airplane crash investigations. He speaks with certainty that ONLY pilots get to give insights into airplane crashes because he has indeed has been chosen by the FAA to go through this process himself. There's no way crash experts could be of engineering background. No WAY. Actually, let me help you further davie. Who do they interview when a crash happens? History majors? no. Political science majors? no. Baby sitters? no. the lawn mower man? no. Your high school english teacher? no. A marine biologists? no. Pilots? you bet ya.

Maybe it's something none of these guys have the capacity to understand, but some people actually have the intellectual capacity to investigate and make judgements about things which they do not have personal experience. It's called intelligence which humans are endowed with, dodo's - not so much.

thmdmph 9 years, 7 months ago

If you tell me that you prefer to have someone with football experience to investigate this case. Fine, I wouldn't argue with you at all. As a matter of fact, that's what we're all talking about - do we prefer to have MM, Lew, Lori Williams, Patterson, a 12-0 season...? But again, it's idiotic to say she's not qualified because she doesn't have football experience or even worse, because she's a female. If your line of argument is valid, I'd say, no one is qualified to investigate MM unless they've D1 football coaching experience. Oh I forgot, in the Midwest under Lew Perkins with Arist Wright on the team. Only then would the investigator truly knows what he's investigating. Otherwise, he should just go and "powder his nose" because coaching D1 football is a tough business - it's a men eat boys world! And MM has digested a lot of boys - look at him. He's going to explode.

Hey max and dave, did you know that dodos has been extinct since 17th century? Didn't know that about yourself did you? When you look in the mirror, is this what you see? http://images.clipartof.com/small/11189-A-Dead-Dodo-Bird-To-Illustrate-The-Saying-As-Dead-As-A-Dodo-Clipart-Illustration.jpg Do you follow KU sports because the Jayhawk remotely reminds you of your extinct species? It must be rough. I feel for you guys. Not really.

Steve Brown 9 years, 7 months ago

thmdmph: "And MM has digested a lot of boys - look at him. He's going to explode."

THM: continue to use your logic and reason, not the weight card. MM deserves to be terminated for the cellar dwellar record and then the 'undisclosed yet' abuse and lack of anger management. Not his weight in my view.

I lose my temper often enough, you don't need to do so as well.

thmdmph 9 years, 7 months ago

it's just a bad joke. not intended to say he should be fired on weight basis at all.

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