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2008 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

Sunday, April 6, 2008

Commentary: Why KU fans didn’t forgive Roy

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— When you get down to it, this whole Roy Williams saga is about how you view a coach.

Some people see a coach as a leader of men (or women), a father figure, an icon in the community. Williams likes this view. It is how he views his old North Carolina boss and mentor, Dean Smith, a man he still reverentially refers to simply as "Coach."

The other way to view a coach is just as an employee. To this way of thinking, coaches are no different from psychology professors or media-relations people or vice presidents for academic affairs. They do a job, and hopefully do it well. But they represent the school only because they are paid to do so.

Saturday night, Williams led his alma mater, North Carolina, against the team he used to coach, Kansas. It is still weird to hear him call "Kansas" the opponent.

But that's how it is this week. Roy Williams is opposing Kansas.

And that's just as well, because Kansas has opposed Roy Williams for five years, ever since he left for Chapel Hill.

Why won't they forgive him? Political analogies are dangerous, but I'm going to make one anyway.

Suppose there was a highly successful political family whose name was, I don't know, the Hintons. And suppose that a lot of people hated the Hintons - thought they were underhanded, played dirty pool, etc. And the Hintons' fans just dismissed those complaints.

Then imagine that some of the Hinton lovers started pulling for another candidate. Let's call this candidate "O'Lama." And suppose - hypothetically, of course - that O'Lama was running for president against a Hinton, and the Hintons were using the same brass-knuckle tactics they always used during a campaign, and all of a sudden the O'Lama people snapped and said, "HEY! THOSE PEOPLE WERE RIGHT ABOUT YOU ALL ALONG!"

That is how Kansas fans felt five years ago, when Roy Williams left for North Carolina. For years, other fans called him a phony, rolled their eyes at all his dadgums and gosh darns, and shook their head when he cried after an NCAA Tournament loss and talked about his players like they were on a mission to end poverty or something. Kansas fans defended Roy.

He was theirs, he was human, and he won. A lot.

Then Roy left. And Kansas fans looked at each other incredulously. What happened to being the Dean Smith of Lawrence? What happened to Roy's love of his Kansas players? Didn't he turn down North Carolina once because he couldn't leave his Jayhawks? Those people were right about him all along.

This is what separates Roy Williams from other coaches who left their programs: He made people believe in him. And as a fan, when you fall for a coach like that - only to wake up one day and decide you were wrong about him all along - well, that's tough to get over.

Oklahoma State is supposedly ready to throw a monster contract at Oklahoma State alum Bill Self, the current Kansas coach. It's hard to see Self taking the job - if you coach college basketball, you don't leave Kansas for Oklahoma State. But even if he does, the outrage in Lawrence will be minor compared to when Roy Williams left. Sure, Self has coached some very successful teams. But he is just an employee.

Comments

extremewagoneer 6 years, 6 months ago

I still hate roy williams, but im glad Bill Self is here, i think he is a much better coach, besides all of the winning we've been doing, i think he is a more down to earth person, and is more involved in the community, now why the paper says he is just an employee baffles me

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Dirk Medema 6 years, 6 months ago

Detroit Free Press? Does this guy really know anything about KU BB? And the political analogy was rather bogus also.In my mind, the only people really hurt by Roy leaving were the seniors. Roy just had not done much with recruiting after Miles, etc. so there weren't many players left. It's no wonder that walk-ons were getting scholarships. Now, we have scholarship players that are choosing to walk-on because they want to play for Coach Self and KU!Even before beating UNC/Roy, it was easy to prefer the latest version of the Jayhawks to the last generation, because we can still put up decent offensive numbers (glitz = media hype, regardless of the sport; AKA Roy Ball), but with Coach Self we play D also and that wins championships.It was sweet to hear the chant last night, as well as "Crimson & Blue" when they came back from the first post-game commercial.Rock Chalk

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fansincewilt 6 years, 6 months ago

I think he got it right when he talked about the passion the fans had believing Roy would never leave the Jayhawks. I was shocked, hurt, disappointed among other feelings. Those feelings were hard to deal with. Last night went a long way to dispel those feelings. But, I certainly don't think of Bill Self as just an employee. That, I think, will be a statement that will get an outcry from Jayhawk Nation. Bill Self is already loved by the fans. He might as well get used to it. Many are already emotional about Self. It didn't take too many years for the Jayhawk fans to find someone else to love. Perhaps, Roy feels badly that the Jayhawks moved on so quickly. There is no way a person in Detroit could ever understand the feelings the fans have for their Jayhawks. Now, on to beating those Tigers.

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Jonathan Allison 6 years, 6 months ago

Bill Self is not just an employee, nor is he Roy Williams' replacement. At Kansas coaches don't come and go. Coaches become part of the community, they stay awhile, they accomplish great things, then they do whatever comes next in their lives. If Coach Self wins the championship then decides to leave then that's his decision, and it will come after he achieved greatness at KU. I don't see it happening, not right now. He's got the best situation a head coach can have. The best boss in Lew Perkins, an Iowa alum who spent many many years at UCONN before becoming a dedicated Jayhawk. Bill Self is our coach, at this point in his career he will be remembered as a Kansas Basketball coach. Roy Williams coached here for 15 years but it is clear that he wants to go down in history at UNC. He's not concerned about how he will be remembered for his previous coaching job. Media people, let it go!

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cwag 6 years, 6 months ago

Mr. Rosenberg, this is Mr. Clue. It's obvious you two have never met.....

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yates33333 6 years, 6 months ago

It's over. Williams and his leader, Dean Smith, are pardoned. After all, they made it possible for KU to hire a better coach than dad gum ol' Roy. Thanks Roy and Dean.

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tailg8prty 6 years, 6 months ago

I'm glad KU beat UNC and Roy. It should bring closure to all of those that still harbor negative feelings toward Roy. But I do understand some of those feelings. This was the first time KU met its ex-coach. Its like seeing an ex-girlfriend that you loved so much with another guy at the store. But when you look at the gal thats on your arm right now you realize that you have something really special too. So let it go. We have a great coach and hopefully he will be here for a long time to come.

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niao 6 years, 6 months ago

This article is better than the crap written by Mayer the other day.With another year passing by, more and more KU fans were convinced Roy would stay at KU because of his love for his players, the fans and KU. He had gained our trust. It was true that KU fans had defended him when there were bad things said about him. He was a good guy. Therefore, when he left we felt we were fooled all along. That hurt. It was okay to go back to his alma mater but it was a different thing if he gave his vow 3 years earlier and did not keep it. Liar? Traitor? You bet!I love KU. I do not hate Roy and I do not hate UNC. But I really hate Dean Smith. Apparently he is wearing UNC blue rather than Crimson and Blue now. Where is your love for KU, your alma mater? There is none. Whatever. Stay away from Jayhawks Nation!

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Bob Zielinski 6 years, 6 months ago

i never had any ill will towards roy. sure, it hurt like hell when he left but that hurt soon evaporated when KU landed on their feet in hiring self. i like self more than roy, i was rooting for roy when they beat illinois to win it all. sometimes a very difficult situation arises and tough decisions have to be made. roy to carolina was actually a blessing for us. this is more of a media driven story about some fringe element fans who would also punch a female relative for wearing a missouri t-shirt because they are unable to handle any perceived slights.

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okiedave 6 years, 6 months ago

I hate to put a damper on the celebration, but the Tulsa World, Sunday edition, has reported that Bill Holder AD for OSU is in San Antonio with Self's Tulsa Attorney. According to the paper, information tells them they are prepared to offer Self a signing bonus of $6 million and a guaranteed annual salary of $2.5 million. The World also reported other coaches are calling Self and encouraging him to take the job, make as much money as he can and then get out of the business (probably becuase they want his job).

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justsaying 6 years, 6 months ago

KU fan's love of the game is unmeasurable. I started KU in the fall of 1987. WOW, what a year to come to KU! Now 20 years later, KU can do it again. Unless you live here you cannot fully understand the fever. If the writer of this article had been downtown last night, the article would have been written quite differently. In fact, if he had spent any time AT ALL in Lawrence, he would know that Self is much much more than an employee. Self is very popular here. I am bothered by the notion of OSU's potential poaching of our coach. Sounds like a new rivalry, if true. Roy is where he wants to be and so are KU fans!

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jaybate 6 years, 6 months ago

First, I've never met this reliable source named Mr. Information. How about interviewing him Q&A style? But if Mr. Information is reliable, then, Bill, certainly will take the money, unless the KU rich assert themselves, which they probably will. There are plenty of KU alumni with skyrocketing oil revenues, no bid defense contracts and contracts not to grow wheat that could easily meet Boone's bucks if they wanted to.But while I wish they would, so we could continue this joy ride with Bill, there's really no need to do so now.Larry Brown, Lew Perkins is calling. Brown would do well, though I 'd hate to subject Danny Manning to more of Larry. Danny's paid his dues, hasn't he?And there's Danny, too, whom I believe is quite ready to recruit and coach the best big men in the country for the next 15 years, even though most people think he needs more seasoning. Danny is so clearly responsible for the play of KU's big men, it convinces me he IS ready. Lewie the Perk can handle the administrative side of KU hoops just fine, until Danny gets all that down. And former KU guards would come out of the woodwork to be Danny's assistant for guard play. And we've got tons of them.Or Larry could take over as interim head coach and school Danny for three years with all recruits being informed that is exactly how it would go down from the git go. Let's see, a hall of fame coach who has won rings in college and pros, with a Kansas legend who won a ring in '88, played 15 years in the L and then was the assistant on this year's National Champion (yes, we ARE going to beat Memphis), comes calling on Joe Blue Chip. Who do you think he and his parents are going to choose? Roy Williams, or Larry and Danny?And if that doesn't suit you, heck, Calipari would almost certainly come to KU, though he hasn't been my cup of tea so far.And wouldn't it be fun to announce that Roy and Dean will not be considered for the post, whether they apply or not, just for laughs?

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skwahjayog 6 years, 6 months ago

okiedave, I just read the Tulsa World article, and they actually were prepared to offer Self the $6 million signing bonus and $3.5 million/year--that before our win last night. I don't think there's any way KU could come up with that type of money. Wouldn't it be awesome, though, if Self chose KU basketball over the money? Talk about a role model... Of course, as a public school teacher making 100th of the $3.5 million, I'm sure it would be tough for me to turn down that much money--not that I'll ever know!Go Hawks!!!!!

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jaybate 6 years, 6 months ago

KU fans, we have to make the best of whatever happens.A magnificient thing has happened to KU hoops this year. Memphis is NOT the dream team of college basketball that Calipari claimes it to be. KU is.The stories of Dblock, Kaun, RR, Rod Stewart, are the dream team stories. And Rush's recovery is an amazing human story, despite it being blemished by his child support and no-show issues. And don't forget that Rush's issues would be inconsequential on the Memphis team. Remember, Coach Cal is working hard on image spin for his team, because it badly needs it.KU isn't perfect, but its blemishes can faced down in broad daylight rather than spun.And, Bill, as I said before, we'll talk to you again in three years after you've iced Boone's bucks and played the OKC pro team off against OSU...and after Danny, and/or Larry have won another Ring three years from now.Two (or three) can play this game, Bill, and we won't begrudge you a bit, because we know you took a powder on Illinois to come to KU, and we knew you were a player when you came.I still think you'll probably stay, because I still think you're just driving up the renegotiation price with Lewie the Perk in the offseason, but there is the looming reality that KU is short scholies, and losing a load of players to the pros and graduation this year...and in turn you have to decide whether you want to go through a rebuilding period with $42 million from Boone, or with one or two mil a year from KU and the risk of being fired if you have a few bad years at KU. Frankly, the $42 mil sounds good to me, but...You and Lew are the only ones who really know what skeletons are in KU's closet right now. If there are none that threaten your future, you'll probably stay at KU, because good times may well get even better if you do.But if there are skeletons we don't know about, then its hello, Boone, and here I come, Stillwater.Frankly, your job is done here. You transitioned us from Roy, kept the program going and but for the players with child support problems, knife fights, head cases, and swollen heads, some inherited from Roy, and some of your making, you've done pretty well.

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jaybate 6 years, 6 months ago

Seriously, the minute LB announced he wanted to coach again, it was clear Bill was playing OSU/Boone off KU and Lewie the Perk. Dean taught coaches to take over programs. Larry taught them to play one organization off against the other and to exploit situations where others are doing the same. Larry, you little devil, you're helping Calipari and you're playing for the KU job, while enabling Self to take the super bucks from Boone. These are your boys, Larry. And all the while you're sticking it in Dean's eye, who stuck it yours for stealing Danny. And people don't think conspiracies are a part of every day life? Sure, and chocolate tastes bad.But here's the thing KU people and Lewie the Perk need to remember: KU will most definitely be in rebuilding mode next year, whether Bill is here or not.We'll lose some players when Bill leaves, either before a possible new coach's first season, or after.But even if the recruits all stay, there are NO replacements coming for perimeter defensive wizards like RR and Chalmers. People will not realize what tremendous defensive players these two were until they are gone. As Roy, or one of the talking heads said recently, RR is the best 7 ppg player in college basketball. I might add i the history of college basketball. Frankly, no one else in college basketball has guards capable of cheating passing lanes the way KU did for the first ten minutes of the UNC game. No, they can't keep it up for a whole game, but they also don't need to. Jo Jo White was the last one at KU who could have done what these guys did and we've got two of them. Its one of those quirks of fate that can't be planned. I doubt they can handle CD-R and Rose, but I've been wrong a ton of times about what our short guards can do. If there's a way to wreak havoc on those two, our two super defenders will probably find a way to do it. And Kaun takes with him not the legacy of mediocrity he amassed his first three and a half seasons, but that of a massively important reserve role player in the front court, who actually makes our interior defense BETTER when he comes in, during this last half season. There is no instant replacement on the horizon for what Kaun is right now. Aldrich will become a starter and be uneven for another half season before becoming an anchor to replace DBlock to build around, rather than the great reserve Kaun has become.And speaking of DBlock, just watching the steadiness of his gaze in the post game interviews, and having seen his balance of good humor and ferocity this season, it is clear that there is no one coming in with those ingredients in place to start next season.

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jaybate 6 years, 6 months ago

There is also no Rush coming in, a guy who creates mismatches for every opponent and who can lock down most anyone he guards, once his knee is fully right. And he showed he could put the ball on the floor yesterday, too. People who oooh and aaah about CD-R on Memphis don't understand that we have Rush, a guy who is not as good at putting the ball on the floor, but a much better defender, rebounder, outside shooter. He's much stronger physically, too. I really look forward to Rush locking down CD-R and Rose having to carry the load. I don't believe he can do it for an entire game, not with Chalmers and RR hounding him and with Sherron making him work his butt off on defense.And we don't have a Sherron replacement coming in either, but maybe we won't lose him either.Nor do we have a guy coming in who can step in and play as well as Arthur has played. UCLA learned the hard way that most freshman big men eventually crack in the rigors of the madness, even te best ones. The rest all take two years to reach what Arthur is now, even if its not the totally dominant guy he could be if he staid one more year. None of this is to say that KU has anything to dread about next season. There's a bunch of good players coming back and a bunch of good recruits coming, even though we lose quite a few.But as Florida and Billy Donovan learned this year, replacing champions takes awhile.We can go through this with Bill, or with Larry, or with Danny, or with Calipari, or with any number of fine coaches.What the heck. Maybe we ought to finally hire Eddie Sutton, like we should have years ago. No, on second thought, Eddie needs to keep working on abstinence.Its good to play this game with Bill. He's very competitive...and Self-assured (pun intended). He wouldn't respect us if we didn't.It would be better if he stayed for he and KU, but the world is full of players now, and KU shouldn't pretend otherwise. Play the players, but treat them well enough to keep them coming back. With Larry, Danny, Calipari, et al in the wings, we don't have to pay Boone's full fare for Bill. But we do have to sweeten the pot AND openly be willing to move on. As negotiator Herb Cohen used to say, "You've got to care, but not too much.":-)

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Pbbut 6 years, 6 months ago

My problem with Roy is not that he left, it's how he left. He went back to Chapel Hill at the specific request of Dean Smith. Dean saw his legacy slipping and needed his ego stroked, so he went out and begged Roy to 'come home.' Roy had the opportunity to make his own legacy at KU, and could have stayed forever. Instead Daddy Dean called him home, and a grown man went. The Dean Smith Convocation and Event Center will always be that, and Roy will be a guy who coached there. Dean's got his name on the building, Roy's got a nice house in Chapel Hill.

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jedarchul 6 years, 5 months ago

-----------------Posted by lawrenceguy40 (anonymous) on April 6, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)To all those Self lovers, just remember January 30th! A loss to K-State in Manhattan is not worth a Final Four appearance. OSU is a better fit for a coach who loses games like that.----------------You sir, are an idiot...Bill Self has won everywhere he's been and, by virtue of this finals appearance, he's taken us every bit as far as Roy ever did. I'll gladly take a shot at the title before I get too concerned about regular season losses (even if it is a loss to a rival). The bottom line is, Mizzou and KSU base much of their season success on their record vs KU. For the Jayhawks with any sense, we like to beat up on them, but our eyes are set on a much greater prize.Self isn't going anywhere, imo. Lew may not match Moneybags Boone's offer, but he will give a comparable contract within reason. I think Self is enough of a basketball guy to realize that you don't take a step down from a job like KU at this point in his career. If it's all about $$ with Bill, I'd be really surprised.All that being said, we've got one more game to go. This should be a brutal match-up for both teams. We've got to keep our intensity level up and above all, just keep scoring.Rock Chalk Jayhawks!!!

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davidsmom 6 years, 5 months ago

This guy is totally clueless! I was initially upset when Roy left, but got over it quickly. I have never held a grudge against him like apparently the media think a lot of people have. I think Roy's leaving was a blessing in disguise because it gave us Bill. Now I am genuinely grateful for the 15 years Roy gave Kansas and the fact that he played a big role in making, or at least maintaining, our program what it is, but I don't feel a connection to him any more. I think of him as the coach at North Carolina, a great program like ours. But I would be WAY more upset if Bill left than I was when Roy left because I love Bill way more than I ever loved Roy. Oh, and by the way, Roy did not face the team he once coached. He did not coach these guys! This is Bill's team, not Roy's.

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mr_lawrence 6 years, 5 months ago

jaybate, I nearly always appreciate your posts and often agree with you but I think you are dead wrong this time. Kansas loves Bill; Bill loves Kansas. He's not going anywhere, and we're going to be great next year. With Chalmers, Collins, and Reed we will again have one of the best backcourts in the country. We have 6'8" twins coming in who averaged something like 30 and 15 at their prep school this year and score from all over the court -- you don't think they'll create match-up problems? you don't think they'll buy into Self's defense? I can almost guarantee you that they will. And did you not see Cole last night? The guy was a stud! Against the National POY! Factor in the shooting of guys like Teahan, Releford, and Morningstar. We could be back in the final four next year. So NO, I do not believe Bill Self is without loyalty and is going to leave just as he has fully arrived (after a few million, don't you mostly crave prestige anyway?). And BIG NO, I do not think that we are going to be rebuilding next year. I believe we're going to come out like beasts and defend our title with a new team.

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davidsmom 6 years, 5 months ago

I agree 100% with the comments asking why the LJWorld even published this article? Bill is not just an employee! He is greatly loved. The writer is a complete idiot. As for a national championship game not being worth a loss in Manhattan...that statement comes from a total moron. That's why MU and KSU never get very far, because they only set their sights on beating KU. As for Bill leaving for the money...with bonuses he's getting nearly 2 million now...most folks would ask, what's a few million more? No difference. I don't think the money will be a factor. I think the decision will come down to something else for Bill. There are some things you just can't buy.

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Ryan Gerstner 6 years, 5 months ago

skwahjayog, where are you at? KU easily could offer Self $3.5 million a year and I'm guessing he'll get that much if KU cuts the nets down Monday night. KU's one of the richest schools in the Big XII and now that football is clicking, our athletic budget is in the top 5 or so in the Big XII, well ahead of OSU's budge with all of T. Boone's money. KU has an alum with about 3 times the net worth of T. Boone.We have so many delusional fans that just don't get it. Self is the coach here until he doesn't want to be here anymore. He's the best coach in the country and you don't fire a coach if he has a couple down seasons. Get a clue.

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skwahjayog 6 years, 5 months ago

hawkfan20, I hope you are right. I guess I believed what I read from the Tulsa World article--and, as a teacher, I for one, should know better than to accept everything in writing as fact. Here is what the Tulsa World reporter wrote regarding KU and the $$:Self made a guaranteed $1.397 million this season. With bonuses, an annuity and summer camps, Self's salary will now get bumped up to $1.9 million because of taking KU to the national title. But the key word here is "guaranteed." Inside sources have confirmed that Self wants Perkins and KU to come up with a guaranteed contract that would put him the range of $2.5 million per season. That's the going rate for coaches like Ohio State's Thad Matta and Kentucky's Billy Gillispie. Inside sources have also confirmed that Perkins has informed Self that there is no way KU has the resources to match what is expected to be a blockbuster deal by OSU.Anyway, again, I hope you are right. I would love to see Bill Self retire at KU a long, long time from now! He's the best!

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classfan 6 years, 5 months ago

KU basketball fans have no class and are cursed. KU will never when a championship because of the curse. You can't blame Roy for taking the step up and getting away from that, and Bill Self will do the same. He's as good as gone....Rock Caulk Chokehawk....Rock Caulk Chokehawk....Rock Caulk Chokehawk

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CaramelMacchMan 6 years, 5 months ago

If Kentucky is paying it Kansas will too...I got faith in Perkins... He tipped me 10 bucks when i helped him one time..i was like wow... go Perkins..

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tcco007 6 years, 5 months ago

Roy left for family reasons (reconciliation with his father and his sister's health). My wife and I moved back to Kansas for similar reasons. I know he said certain things the first time, never expecting the UNC job to come open until he was ready to retire. I want to publicly thank Coach Williams for taking a program that was at the crossroads facing probation in 1989 and making it a repeat final four team. I firmly believe had Drew Gooden and Paul Pierce stayed and he won two national titles at KU there might have been a different feeling about him going to UNC. Last night was our US/USSR hockey game and KU won. Let's move forward and remember the great times when Coach Williams was at KU.

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yates33333 6 years, 5 months ago

Why doesn't skwahjayog reveal his "inside source" regarding Perkins. Or is this source a relative of the usually unreliable "unidentified reports?"KU's sports program is fortunate to have Perkins. Both UConn, from whence he came, and now KU improved their progams under this guy.I doubt classfan is from Missouri. Even a Missourian isn't dumb enough to use "when" for "win." It's no typing error, baby! Maybe an Okie? A Tulsa World writer?

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classfan 6 years, 5 months ago

The jayhawks always choke in the big game. They have won just two National Championships in the last 60 years, but they still think they are one of the nations top programs. Florida has won that many in the past two years. No, the jayhawks are chokehawks and if they forgot about ol Roy before he left why is that all they have talked about this week, and after KU chokes Monday night and Bill leaves a few weeks later we will all have to listen to the whining again. KU has no class, so the great coaches search for better schools with more class and to get away from the KU curse.....Rock Caulk Chokehawk....Rock Caulk Chokehawk....Rock Caulk Chokehawk....

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Michael Auchard 6 years, 5 months ago

Go back to Missouri and molest your 10-year old cousin, Classfan. This type of behavior isn't tolerated on this side of the border.

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skwahjayog 6 years, 5 months ago

yates33333, I don't have any inside sources. That all came directly from the Tulsa World article. I appologize that I didn't put it into quotes--my bad! Sorry!

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therahawk 6 years, 5 months ago

What, you ask, do K-State/Missouri fans do when their [insert sport here] team inevitably fails year in and year out? Root against the team that always seems to beat them...KU, of course. For reference, see comment by "classfan" above.

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fansincewilt 6 years, 5 months ago

It's great to have such a great team, that the loser sports fans feel they need to come on this site and make stupid comments. That tells you everything you need to know about the Kansas program. It's so good others just sit around salivating and wishing they were a part. I say just dump the losing team you support and get on board with Kansas. We have the greatest coach in America and we're going to keep him. Don't worry about the recruits. He knows exactly what kind of team he intends to build. He's the master and soon everyone will realize that.

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therahawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Very true, fansincewilt. Ask yourself this: do Duke fans turn on the tube, and root against UNC? NO. Are Louisville fans gnashing their teeth at Memphis? Absolutely NOT. Does anyone know why? Because good rivalries stem from competitive spirit and mutual respect, with each year bringing a new set of highly competitive games from two successful programs. Why do MU/KSU fans feel the need to show zero class and spoil their "rival" fans' fun? Probably because losing year in and year out is frustrating. I've been a Jayhawk fan since birth (thanks dad), yet met my wife and graduated from KSU. Crazy circumstances led to my going there (thanks wife), but I can tell you this: they DO whine about everything KU does, and to tell you the truth, I found it quite disgusting. They hate KU more than they like their own teams, and then wonder why their teams are never good. Then they get even more infuriated when KU doesn't even recognize them as a true rival. KSU...the reason why is because respect is a key ingredient in a good rivalry, and neither you, nor MU fans have a capacity for it. Even a little conference loyalty would be nice, considering sports pundits continually sh*t on the Big XII every year. Is KU different from MU/KSU to this regard?

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therahawk 6 years, 5 months ago

You bet...I have consistently heard around the KU campus (I'm at KU now, and will be a KUMed grad in 2011) is that K-State earned that win in Manhattan this year, and of any of KU's 3 losses this year, that was the only one that was competitively acceptable, considering the atmosphere surrounding the game.Show a little class and school pride, suck it up, wish KU luck, and root for the Big XII...otherwise, I say we boot you out of the Big XII, and make you play in the Missouri Valley Conference, if they'll even take you.ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK, GO KU!!!

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actorman 6 years, 5 months ago

"You sir, are an idiot...""As for a national championship game not being worth a loss in Manhattan...that statement comes from a total moron."Wow, sometimes I'm embarrassed to read what's on this board. Have the two of you ever heard of the word sarcasm????? It's always possible to misread a sarcastic post, but that one has to be one of the most obviously sarcastic posts in the history of this board! I would bet that most third-graders would have realized it was sarcastic, but apparently the two of you did not. Try not to make complete fools of yourselves the next time you feel the need to make a comment.Jaybate, I have rarely if ever before thought you were off your rocker, but your diatribe is wayyyyyy out there. Aside from the endless Roy-bashing, I am constantly mystified by the love affair people have with Larry Brown. Yes I have immense appreciation for the national championship he brought us. But I DON'T have appreciation for the probation he left us with, or for his incredibly disingenuous comment later. (Does anyone else remember that after KU went on probation, LB had the nerve to say that if he had known about it he would never have left--this after he left solely for monetary reasons. I'm sure the idea of KU facing probation would have kept him from taking the money and running. Yeah right. And people say that ROY is a phony???) And I don't have appreciation for the way he abandoned KU. Unlike Roy, who left THREE YEARS after saying he would stay, and after having been at KU 15 years, and to go back to his alma mater, and because his sister was sick, and ....., LB left TWO MONTHS after saying he would stay, leaving KU in an extremely difficult position. And LB did not go to his alma mater or go to be with his family. He left for the money, plain and simple--something he has done numerous times since, often after blatantly lying about staying. Someone please explain to me how otherwise intelligent people can rip Roy up and down and yet fawn all over Larry Brown like he's some saint. Because of one magical game???If Bill does end up leaving, I do think that KU will end up with a very good coach, but it would be hard to match someone with all of Bill's characteristics. And I CERTAINLY would not want them to take Larry Brown. I would want a coach who would be at KU for a long time and who would have at least SOME integrity. Anyway, let's look forward to a tremendous game tomorrow and keep our fingers crossed that Bill doesn't go anywhere. And once and for all, let's can it with the Roy-bashing--and for that matter with the Dean-bashing. To those who keep bitching about Dean caring more about UNC than KU, let me ask you this: do you think it's perfectly acceptable for Larry Brown to root for us against UNC? If so that makes you a hypocrite, because it's the exact same situation.

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nebraska_jayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Classfan- first of all, I have a problem with your user name because it is an oxyMORON. Hey, a double meaning. How fitting is that? How sad is it that you have nothing better to do than to try to criticize KU and the best program in college basketball history so you and your wildcat or tiger fan friends can feel better about yourselves. It is also sad that your football and basketball team defines success on whether they beat KU or not. But KU who has won 2 championships in 20 years and not 60 years as you suggested. Its 3 championships in 56 years MORON. That name really suits you well. You also claim that KU is not an elite program since the number of championships they have won does not equal to teams like Florida who had a two year hot streak and then went to the NIT. Championships alone do not equal a successful program. Consistency and championships do. KU has both. What does that say about your precious tigers who didnt even make it do the NIT or the wildcats who lost to Wisconsin who got their butts kicked by Davidson. And I know what you'll try to say. You say something like that KU almost lost to Davidson. But guess what, we didn't. We didn't choke like you like to say you jerk. We won it. Accecpt it, get over it and go back to playing your video games. No college team can go back as far as KU because the beginning of basketball and winning is KU. Basketball=KU. Period. There is no debate. It is fact. End of story. You lost. Goodbye.

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