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Wednesday, November 18, 2009

Keegan

Mangino wins games, not friends

Mark Mangino

Mark Mangino

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Videos

Mangino investigation

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Videos related to the investigation into alleged inappropriate behavior by KU football coach Mark Mangino.

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Mark Mangino discusses investigation

Mark Mangino spent about 10 minutes discussing an investigation the athletic department is conducting, as well as the upcoming game against Texas.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Reesing discusses Mangino investigation

Senior quarterback Todd Reesing provided more information about the investigation that is underway of KU football coach Mark Mangino.

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— When he coached his team to an Orange Bowl victory and a 12-1 record just two seasons ago, he was fiery, a western Pennsylvania, blue-collar underdog who made it big and never forgot his roots.

Now that he’s lost five in a row, he’s an abusive, obnoxious bully who doesn’t always play nice with his football players.

Such is the nature of today’s instant-gratification society. Everybody loves a winner, warts and all. Nobody loves a loser, even one who brings lunch-pail charm and an obsessive work ethic to his job.

Glad-handers tend to weather storms of season collapses better than dictators who motivate through fear and intimidation. Mark Mangino, similar to so many successful football coaches through the years, from Bear Bryant to Vince Lombardi, falls into the latter category. The original Bear and Lombardi sustained their winning all the way to legendary status.

When Mangino was 12-1, he was a throw-back, and gosh darn it, the world needs more throw-backs. Now that he’s 5-5 and hasn’t been able to get a feel for this team, he needs anger management, and Kansas needs a new football coach.

Nobody wants to hear anything negative, and nobody wants to speak up about a coach who sends the paying customers heading back to the parking lot with a winning strut, all smiles. But they remember, they store their thoughts, and they unleash them when the moment is right. Now that Lori Williams, KU associate athletic director/risk management, has been assigned to investigate, enough grudges will be aired to send Kansas University’s first winning football coach since the late Jack Mitchell on his way to his next job.

Listening on the radio while riding to St. Louis for the 2008 basketball national-title rematch, I wasn’t surprised to hear a serene Mangino addressing the media.

“I don’t really have much to say about it other than, you know, you lose a few games in a row, those type of issues come up,” Mangino said. “It’s not uncommon.”

If the investigation reveals the extent of the physical contact Mangino has had with players is uncommon — as far as what’s known by the public to be common for football coaches — that will be enough. It’s no secret the football coach has a hot temper. Imagine that, a man who coaches a sport that rewards unbridled aggression, violent hitting and percolating adrenaline has a nasty side when trying to bring out those qualities in others.

Mangino never has made winning friends a priority, just winning football games. There is no “F” column in the standings for “friends,” just a “W” and an “L.” Friends can help a coach prolong his stay, but the next regret Mangino has about his style will be the first.

At this point, with all the damage done to recruiting, it’s difficult to see Mangino coaching beyond this season. Meanwhile, athletic director Lew Perkins works behind the scenes to land a big-name coach. Perkins pays well and shouldn’t have trouble landing his man.

Also, look for plans for the Gridiron Club, which faced price resistance and general indifference from the start, to be put on hold. Even a less daunting financing plan recently offered won’t be enough to go ahead with breaking ground on the ambitious project.

Comments

nicholasu 4 years, 5 months ago

Finally a realistic overview of the situation. Great column, being a life long KU football fan and player, this situation could have not be covered or said better. It's football, if you can't take physical contact and verbal abuse and someone getting in your face go play tennis or croquet or something.

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jchief40 4 years, 5 months ago

slowplay - apparently you think "winning" is easy! Hah!

"I DEMAND it!" lmao

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jchief40 4 years, 5 months ago

.... KU fanbase intoxicated by basketball successes are still learning how to be football fans ...

head out of arse please.

You're a good man Mangino. Love what you've done for us because we sucked big time before your arrival. Forget all these blathering idiots.

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slowplay 4 years, 5 months ago

I guess I really don't care anymore. If KU fans are happy with mediocrity, so be it. If KU fans are happy that their coach is overpaid (by 100's of thousands of dollars), so be it. If KU fans are happy that he physically and verbally abuses his players, so be it.

Mancino is a big boy (no pun intended). He knew taking the job (and the money) that he would need to win consistently. Apparently winning (much less competing in the Big 12) doesn't mean much to KU football fans, so maybe he'll get to stick around for few more years.

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meastland 4 years, 5 months ago

While I agree that Lew has done a lot for the program, I would also like to point out that he has turned KU football into a business. I've had season tickets since the TA days, and the man is very close to pricing me out of my seats. He has shown zero loyalty to fans like me, who sat through more 50+ - 0 debacles at the hands of KSU, NU, and OU than I care to count. So it doesn't surprise me one bit that he's looking for an excuse to fire HCMM.

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Philip Bowman 4 years, 5 months ago

If Perkins fires Mangino, the chancellor should fire Perkins.

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Dirk Medema 4 years, 5 months ago

"a sport that rewards unbridled aggression, violent hitting and percolating adrenaline"

Actually, the sport penailzes "unbridled aggression", such as late hits on QB's, kickers, players out of bounds, etc. It is very defnitely a violent sport that i hormonally raged, but it sounds like the difference between "unbridled aggression", and intelligent, focused aggression, is exactly the issue here.

Say what you want (or produces more $, if convenient) about records, tickets, recruits, whatever, but it ultimately comes down to it being a $MM business, and Lew is one shrewd buisness man. Ultimately, Lew is the one building the program (athletic), and there is no way that a coach is going to be allowed to bring down his program.

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annette38 4 years, 5 months ago

Ron_Kellogg

Not sure what you do for your job but I hope the lynch mob comes after you the next time you make a mistake in judgment or as a coach simply have a crappy season!

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sactownhawk 4 years, 5 months ago

You guys think mangino is great for 2007 when we overachieved and yest it was awesome and fun to watch. That season didnt happen if todd reesing didnt find mangino, dont say mangino found reesing, because that is wrong. Yes he took a chance, good job. but like others have said he is 23-39 in big 12 play, thats terrible. stop acting like we havent given time to build a program, its been 9 years (i think around there), that is plenty of time to get your players and coaches there. Look, i appreciate what mangino has done and he has brought the attitude shift for football here that we need, but we need someone to take that next step forward. I know lew perkins can get a great young coach who gets young players excited.

Also, you guys should check out the kansan.com article on this http://www.kansan.com/news/2009/nov/17/internal-review-football-program-underway/ (university daily kansan) dexton fields and marcus herford were contacted for the story, and NEITHER of them are surprised about this, infact, they say they are shocked it hasnt happened earlier.

We have great facilities now, a great AD (remember he was sports exec of the year people...) he can bring in someone great.

Thank you mangino and staff, best of luck at the next stop, you will go down in history as the changing point of KU football

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whitechocolate 4 years, 5 months ago

Wow. I've just been watching all these articles, all these posts and I don't think there's anything I can say that would be revolutionary.

I support Mangino. You'd be hard-pressed to find another man who can earn my trust the way Coach has. If at all possible, I want that man on our sidelines next season and many seasons to come.

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Dan Harris 4 years, 5 months ago

jwliddell- well said, I'm sick and tired of all the hypocrisy and fair weather fans too. I suppose all we can do is come back on here and tell everyone we told you so and how do you like Coach abc's 2-10 and 3-9 seasons!

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troutsee 4 years, 5 months ago

ksharddem--great posts. Interesting comparison of Allen and MM. Agree with your comments.

jcjayhawk--agree

Rasta--agree.

We will be fine. There are a lot of good coaches out there.

I do think the "parking" thing is not a big deal although it is another example of his volitility. He should have had a place that was convenient. He does not get around very well.

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rastameta 4 years, 5 months ago

When I read these posts, I understand why our football fans have been so bad for so long. First, they don't believe in KU and what it brings to the table and second they simply cannot identify good vs. bad coaching.

I cannot believe that people actually say we shouldn't expect that much from KU football, that we are a basketball school, that we are in a small market, etc.

We are close to Kansas City, we have really good facilities now and for christ sake K-State and Missouri were able to build winners why can't KU? Do you really think K-State and Missouri are that much better than KU that they can do it and we can't? What kind of fan of KU are you to discredit all that KU has to offer in a football program. Ask any coach in the Big 12 and they will tell that they just don't get why KU hasn't been good in football because it has everything it needs to be successful...close to Kansas City, beautiful campus, now it has top-notch facilities, an AD willing to pay, etc.

Stop underestimating what KU can do in Football. Lew Perkins certainly isn't and I for one (a former player) applaud that. Finally, we have an AD willing to commit to having a top program. We never had that in the past and that is the main reason why KU has been historically bad.

IMHO, Lew will get a really good hire for KU and we will be more competitive in the Big 12 then we ever have been before.

Mark it down. Remember this post.

I am telling you that people that say we KU can't do it should never go to a KU football again because you don't really believe in your school and have no business saying Mangino is the best thing to ever happen to KU football. I was a part of the program and I know for a fact that he is not.

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babyjay1 4 years, 5 months ago

Ok, first, I really don't think Lew would be investigating if this were just over a "poke in the chest". I have to believe there is a pattern here and probably much we don't know. And again, it's very sad if this is all false, but I'm really not sure MM's position would be salvageable either way. I think there is too much damage. I tend to believe the best about people but if MM really has an anger problem and has had issues over the years, it's possible that it's just gotten much worse with this very disappointing season and now it's something that cannot be overlooked.

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Justin Diederich 4 years, 5 months ago

Its only fair to fire Mangino. K-state fired Ron prince for losing to KU. We should fire Mangino for losing to K-state.

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jhwkfan162515 4 years, 5 months ago

You know, if Perkins fires Mangino and uses the players' BS as an excuse to avoid a buyout, there's going to be a nasty lawsuit, kinda like Bob Knight with Indiana, Jim O'Brien with Ohio State, Billy Gillispie with Kentucky...

Oops, I'm only listing basketball coaches. When was the last time a college football coach sued a school because they refused to give him his buyout?

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shelleysue 4 years, 5 months ago

Again I ask - If this has been such a huge problem at KU for eight years, as well as a problem at OU and KSU before that, why are we just now hearing about it? Still doesn't answer all of my questions but thanks.

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shelleysue 4 years, 5 months ago

screwyou why are you back here?

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CherryCreekHawk 4 years, 5 months ago

Okay, so Mangino is a hothead. But my question is: Where is Lew Perkins? Hard to believe he knew nothing of this. I think he's a jerk, too. Raising ticket prices. Strutting around like the cock of the walk. As a KU graduate, I think he's a pimp. Bill Self seems to be a good fellow, but Mangino and Perkins...they are a couple of prostitutes.

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kranny 4 years, 5 months ago

Sounds to me like Mr. Keegan has the inside scoop and Mangino is on his way out if Perkins is already looking for a new coach. Take care coach and thanks for the memories.

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screwyou 4 years, 5 months ago

leikness- KU should have and could have beat OU and Texas Tech along with Colorado and Kansas State. YES, that's mediocrity!! <<< yes KU should have beat CU. KSU 50/50. But OU and Texas? that just show how dillusion your fan base.

Welcome to the doormat again

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Lance Hobson 4 years, 5 months ago

Why in the world would we be looking for a new coach? Mangino is the only coach who's ever won at KU, and he does it with an exciting offense. It wasn't that long ago when we'd be thrilled to be 5-5. This is big mistake, and I hope this woman who knows nothing about football doesn't screw him and our football program.

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Hawk1969 4 years, 5 months ago

leikness- KU should have and could have beat OU and Texas Tech along with Colorado and Kansas State. YES, that's mediocrity!!

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ksharddem 4 years, 5 months ago

shelleysue - I do not know anything about players not getting on a plane but what I do know is that the athletic department has been dealing with this issue since Mangino started at KU just as KSU and OU dealt with it in the past. I think the real is issue is just that. When Mangino was having 7 or 8 win seasons the athletic department was willing to continue to smooth things over. However, now that a 7 win season seems unlikely they are not and want to make a change. This provides them with reason and the provides them with the ability to avoid a buyout.
The one thing that people seem to not understand is that if Lew does not deal with this to a satisfactory level he is leaving the University and the Department open to law suits. Some kid gets assaulted and then files a suit that he is all but certain to win because of the long line of DOCUMENTED cases of the coaches anger issues.
At this point Lew is protecting the University. If Mangino actually cared about this school, his players and the department he would resign. It might be the only way he gets another head coaching job anywhere in the country. If he gets fired because the probe finds that he has physically or verbally assaulted anyone, it is unlikely that he will be at the helm again. Tech tried it with Knight but even then, his temper lead to his dismissal.
Is Mangino a good offensive coach, YES. But schools are not going to take this kind of a risk when they could lose so much more and there are other people available who do not pose such a high risk of a lawsuit.

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jcjayhawk 4 years, 5 months ago

KUAC (Kansas University Athletics Corporation) the key word there being “Corporation”. Like it or not big time collegiate athletics is a business. And as such comparing our recent results to our historical results is not an accurate measure of our success. As a company we compare ourselves against our competitors and strive to be the best. So our CEO Lew Perkins right now has got a Divisional VP who for his first several years was a rising star, peaking in 2007. Here in 2009 revenue and the quality of his product have dipped each of the previous 2 years, he’s trending the wrong way verses his competitors, he’s not well liked or respected amongst his peers, he has a huge salary, and perhaps most importantly he has not met expectations and goals 3 out of the last 4 years. We as boosters are the shareholders in KUAC and as such we need to help the CEO make a decision. If you think Mangino is the guy who can lead the team to success, great, make that argument but remember it’s a business decision. Meanwhile, those of us who can justify a change in leadership are not fair-weather fans; we’re responsible stock holders questioning our growth plan. That being said, if I have to go down with the ship I will. I attended every home game and few road games when we were 2 & 10, I attended every home game and a few road games when we were 12 & 1, I saw every home game live this year and will be in Austin on Saturday, and I’ll be at every game next year regardless of who the coach is. But if I can help put a higher quality product on the field, then I’m going to do my part to do so.

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Armen Kurdian 4 years, 5 months ago

I just thought of something. What if Arist went to the AD with concerns about Mangino the man instead of Mangino the coach? i.e., maybe he had some genuine concerns about maybe some deeper issues that Coach is dealing with, not so much anger management in and of itself, and we're all barking up the wrong tree here. Or to put it another way, he did tell the AD, "Hey, Coach is hurting my feelings," but more like, "I think there may be something wrong w/Coach."

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shelleysue 4 years, 5 months ago

ryanm - where do you get your info? Players are refusing to get on the plane? Really? Is that because of Mangino or is it a show of support for Mangino. Do you know these coaches, players, parents and referees?

I will say this again. If this has been going on so terribly for so dang long and if everyone hates him so much and players and parents think he's an abusive tyrant, and if he is disliked by coaches how did he...

a. get away with it for so long, not just at KU but OU and KSU? b. how did he ever get players to Kansas? c. how did he win coach of the year? d. how did he ever get hired at Kansas in the first place? e. why didn't parents do something about it BEFORE? f. why didn't anyone else complain before? g. why did we never hear about the alleged police reports? h. how did he ever find coaches willing to work for him? i. why didn't the coaches join forces and put a stop to it? j. why didn't Lew put an end to it? k. why haven't players excited in masses? l. why hasn't he been fined more?

WHY and HOW??? I really do want to know.

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jhokfan 4 years, 5 months ago

I still think the level of expectation is too high for Mangino. He should be allowed to have an off year. One step backwards, two steps forward. That’s been his history. There are a lot of people saying we need a better coach but I do not believe we will find one who will succeed and ultimately stay here. I heard Todd McShay say this morning that KU will not find a better coach. If Mangino can weather the storm, he will ultimately bring this program to a higher level. When he retires it will be easier to find a successor who will not only want to coach here but stay as well.

In the immortal words of Santayana, those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Don’t be surprised if a new coach turns out to be another Terry Allen. If that coach succeeds, don’t be surprised when he leaves for another job.

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ryanm1988 4 years, 5 months ago

If only Mangino held himself to the same standards as he holds his players. Yes, there is definitely a pattern of behavior. Just ask the coaches, ask the players, ask the parents, ask the coaches recruiting against Kansas, ask the referees in the pregame meetings (yes, pregame). And, yes, it is overlooked when winning because it does not impact THE RESULTS. When it has a direct impact on THE RESULTS, the AD is doing his job to investigate. When players are refusing to get on the plane to go to Texas, there is a problem. If a leader is leading, there is no problem. If the leader is not leading, he must change or be changed. Since Mangino has not made a mistake in 8 years, I do not expect him to change.

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jhwkfan162515 4 years, 5 months ago

Mark Mangino should NOT be fired. If KU posted a losing season, it would only be the first losing season since 2004. That's not reason enough to fire him. Nor is the alleged "poke in the chest" to Arist Wright, nor the expletive-laden tongue lashing he gave Raimond Pendleton in 2007 (which Pendleton deserved). Mangino must stay!

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shelleysue 4 years, 5 months ago

Someone sent this to me. It's amazing and makes you realize what's really important.

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jhwkfan162515 4 years, 5 months ago

Didn't the players call for Bud Moore to be fired in the 1970s?

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Steve Brown 4 years, 5 months ago

jwliddell says: "Unless he beat a kid, don't fire Mangino. He is the one who has made this program.

I agree. Like you say, unless he beat a kid, or choked a kid, or demonstrated ongoing anger management rage at parking ticket students, or High School refs. or students, staff and players, then don't fire him. Let's have the 'unbias' report due it's work.

None of us are saying the playing time issue, normal player discipline, nor the poke in the chest pads are worthy of this investigation. You have agreement.

After the official investigation the AD will have grounds or not. Even if not, how can we sustain recruiting, team discipline.

put a fork in it.

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Blake Post 4 years, 5 months ago

Lots and lots of comments. I hope the Ron Kellogg who posted here is not my favorite Ron Kellogg who could nail 40 without a three point line in college, because I would disagree. If MM did some serious wrong, if football warriors are being treated too roughly,do what you have to do. I might prefer one who seems like Tom Landry, but whatever. Coaches yell. Most of em do. Lots of their fathers and grandfathers could have been military, and there is a lot of yelling there I think. For me it is innocent until proven guilty, and then it matters, how guilty. I do not forget the Orange Glow and all of the other victories and good efforts wafting in the penumbras... I remember never ever ever beating Nebraska... until anyway, of course great accomplishments can't justify something very wrong. I trust that KU will figure out whether something that wrong happened, and the degree thereof, and until otherwise notified... I'm just focused on the next game like the players and the coaches.

You people who get on here and yell for top of the big 12 every year are obnoxious. It is very difficult to do, and this is as good as we have done. Right now. A few losses won't change what has been done. The win/loss argument is not even part of the present discussion and has no bearing here. The issue is something about behavior, not how fast you can jump ship when turnovers and penalties cost us games. Be careful not to use that... ahem... gender arguing technique where you point out everything that is wrong, blame it all on one, and call for his head. Don't take the opportunity to criticize recent losses when that is not this issue. It is not even in this issue.
And most of all, I recognize those among you who are so quick to jump Mangino as being actually wildcats and tigers. They would love to pretend to be Jayhawks and call for OUR coach's head. Do not be fooled.

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Krohnutz 4 years, 5 months ago

I have never been a Mangino fan, so do not lump me in there with the fair weather crowd. They shouldn't have to resort to "poking" to question this guys track record. This guy is a domestic train wreck, and has been, if it takes the most disappointing season in KU history to get him gone, so be it.

His "record of wins" in the Big 12 is horrific. His overall record is puffed up by our creampuff nonconference record.

He has 23 wins eight seasons in the Big 12. Seven of those wins came in one season. This "winner" has never beaten Oklahoma, Texas, or Texas Tech. Not once, not ever.

We have one win against Oklahoma State, we have two wins against Nebraska, and three of our four wins against Kansas State came with Ron Prince at the helm. Ron Freegan Prince.

He has feasted on scrubs. His creampuff schedule and his eleven wins against Baylor, Colorado, and Iowa State (six of his 23 total wins) have propped up his win percentage. How has Keegan not digested this? Or is it because they are buffet buddies? Did I throw enough food references in this paragraph? Feast, creampuff, digested, buffet, I R A WRITER!

I don't want to hear how he "wins." In 2007 we played one tough opponent all season, Mizzou at Arrowhead. We lost, but because Lew Perkins can sell ice to eskimos, we got into the Orange Bowl, and got our win. One year measures your entire career? Who really thinks this guy has performed well enough to be the 15th highest paid college coach in the United States? Seriously?

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beebe1 4 years, 5 months ago

Thanks to all who posted in favor of football! It seemed like it took a while before you spoke up so well! The 'instigator' should go! And hopefully some one will find a way to keep this year's recruits!

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ksharddem 4 years, 5 months ago

23 - 39......23 - 39 in the Big 12. Has Mangino done a good job? Really? One year the team way overachieved and did awesome and went 12 - 1. Some are acting like that has been the norm under the Mangino era. It's not. Nor has it been. Under Mangino the Jayhawks are 23 - 39 in the Big 12. Which means that Mangino has won 37% of his Big 12 match-ups. Why is it that people think KU cannot get anyone better than Mangino to coach us? Terry Allen, who is often pointed to as this horrible coach was 20 - 33 in 5 season against Big 12 schools for 38% victory. How is one the worst coach in all of human history and the other some God that cannot be replaced? Wake up!!! One season does not make or break a career.

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Mangino_Maniac 4 years, 5 months ago

Ok, think I've read every column on this matter (so far) and also the majority of comments to each... guess it leaves me wondering one general thing - why are people acting like they are just realizing now how Mangino operates? If his demeanor & methods are really the issue, then he would have been sent packing years ago, especially after the chewing he gave Pendleton that became a youtube classic.

In my opinion this reaction to Mangino is because there have been five straight weeks of losing... if we had even gone just 3-2 over the past few games, the 'poking' or whatever else are the specifics of this matter wouldn't be such an issue.

He is what he is, and we've all known it for a looooong time... unless someone has been complaining all along, then people look ridiculous complaining now - kind of hypocritical. Mangino hasn't just suddenly started actiing like this. I think when all has been said and done, it will show that he is the same then as he is now.

So if 'poking' (or cussing, etc) wasn't an issue say six years ago to people, why is it now?

Also, some are saying he doesn't deserve all that much credit... well, in my opinion, I'll definitely give him his due. I sat through four seasons in the late 80s as an undergrad, and the program is worlds apart from those ridiculous days. And to be fair, I also see Mangino obviously needs to work on numerous things (his understanding of differing views... his health, etc). Nothing is perfect, and of course he is not.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds... KU football is in a much better place than eight years ago, that is for sure. I just hope whatever happens over the next few weeks is positive for the players, programs and university, and we don't suddenly take some major steps backwards.

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jacqueshock 4 years, 5 months ago

I don't know where this whole situation is going, but if, for whatever reason, Mangino gets the boot (which really would be unfortunate), I would recommend Charlie Strong, defensive coordinator at Florida, as the next head coach.

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GridironHawk 4 years, 5 months ago

Pretty disappointing to read all the negative posts from "true" KU fans. Why don't you just jump off the bandwagon you road in on two years ago... Great article Keegan! Lew made a huge mistake taking this public and just ran Mangino out of town no matter what the outcome of the investigation is (unless Lew is gone first). Mangino runs a football program (remember 100 young men many needing strong discipline) the way it has to be run. I'm sure Terry Allen is available to come back and coach if you all want a push over. Maybe we could just put flags on so it isn't as rough for the players either. Get real, this is Big 12, D1 Football.

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shelleysue 4 years, 5 months ago

THANK YOU jwliddell. THANK YOU! Ditto, ditto, ditto.

We are BUILDING a program from the ground up. This takes TIME.

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Steve Brown 4 years, 5 months ago

Keegan great article. everyone reads it to support their various viewpoints. well done.

Funny how some fans read it and said, " you turncoats are just piling on due to W/L record. We love MM.Remember what he has done for us"

Others read the same article and say, " time to get new coach, we don't support MM. He is losing the north with better talent."

I niether support nor dislike MM. I suport him when he wins and don't when he doesn't.

I do love KU winning and beating KState, MU and Neb especially in their rebuilding years like this one.

With our without coach at our helm the goal is the same: WIN FOOTBALL GAMES.

Lew will sort this out as is his responsibility.

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jayhawkox 4 years, 5 months ago

Just to clarify, I wasn't implying that Arist Wright is top caliber talent, what I'm saying is that recruits hear these stories too and they aren't going to listen to what KU has to say if they think they're going to get abused verbally or physically or whatever for coming here. I'm not claiming to know all of the facts or to not appreciate what MM has done but I've seen enough of Lew's tenure to believe he didn't build that facility for the football program and get plans set for the new luxury suites to go 6-6 every year.

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Bill Kackley 4 years, 5 months ago

You naysayers make me sick. Damn liberals oh sorry that's what I am. Too bad some of you don't have the opportunity to coach. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and see you sqirm

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John Liddell 4 years, 5 months ago

The sense of entitlement of the KU fans makes me sick.

I'd like to personally thank all the "fans" that left games in the 2nd quarter this year when we were winning, all the "fans" that left when we were losing in the 2nd quarter, all the "fans" that rubbed the Colorado loss in the players faces adding insult to injury, all the "fans" that sold their tickets to NU fans for Senior night, all the "fans" that want to win, but can't deal with the growing pains of building a football program, all the "fans" calling for HCMM's head. You all have truly made this a magical year for everyone. Makes me want to rip the jayhawk off my chest.

Unless he beat a kid, don't fire Mangino. He is the one who has made this program, not Lew. Mangino gave TR a chance, not Lew. Mangino switched Meier to receiver, not Lew. Sounds to me like our fans whining has spilled over to our LB's.

Thanks again.

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Michael Leiker 4 years, 5 months ago

Hawk 1969 - Do you really think we have the talent in this program right now to compete with Texas and OU. FYI they are on our schedule at the same time 2 out of 4 years. Your idea of mediocrity is frustrating. An 8-6 season is "mediocrity" This year, disappointing, yes. I guess Mangino should apologize that the schedule layed out so that they played Missouri at the end of the year instead of the beginning and thus poor jayhawk fans had to fell like they "squeaked out a bowl game" in a year where they had to play 3 top 10 teams, a well playing NU team on the road and a solid South Florida team on the road. 8-5 last year was a great accomplishment. Again, Get Real KU Fans.

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grandpa 4 years, 5 months ago

A big lot of you above people are in for a big surprise.!

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Christopher Johnson 4 years, 5 months ago

swishymcjayhawk:

I'll take 6-6, 7-5, 12-1 any day over the crappy teams and coaches we've had to endure in the past. We're starting to sustain winning bowl seasons. That comes first and is more important than consistent BCS games or national championships. 8 teams in the country get to be better than "mediocrity." Consistent high level bowl games is the next step. It takes time and patience.

Keegan - Great article! You're exactly right. We're such an impatient bunch of jerks.

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slowplay 4 years, 5 months ago

Mangino = Mediocrity

3 years from now when KU is still a .500 team, everyone will wonder why KU didn't take the next step and look for solid D1 coach in 2010. Mangino has over extended his stay. The program may have been in shambles when he arrived, but it seems like too many fans are willing to settle for average when KU should be striving for excellence.

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86finalfour 4 years, 5 months ago

Here's an interesting piece of info from KC star article. It's probably just the media stirring up more controversy but if it winds up that they want to fire him and are digging up old laundry to to dodge the buyout, then I'm going to be sick.

KC star today: "If Perkins were to fire Mangino during or after this season without cause, Mangino would be owed a $600,000 buyout. If there is cause for Mangino’s firing, the school would not have to pay a buyout. "

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Hawk1969 4 years, 5 months ago

Alum2000 and leikness- I remember the Mason years when the Jayhawks were going to bowl games and had winning seasons. I also remember how Allen ran the program into the ground. Yes, Mangino has done some great things for the program and has made KU football respectable again. However, the table has been set for the last three years with good recruiting, solid returning players, and favorable schedules for the Jayhawks to make a ligitiment run at a conference championship. The program has come up short everytime. There's no reason why the Jayhawks shouldn't be in contention year in and year out for a conference championship and a BCS bowl birth.

Now, with great facilities and fan support KU is an attractive job and Perkins has the tools and finances to bring in a big name coach. I'm sorry, but 2 out 3 years struggling to become bowl eligible is not what Jayhawk fans desire. Not with the talent they have now and the players they've brought in. KU DOESN'T have to be just a bb school. The job at KU is attractive with the facilities, the AD, and just by being in the Big XII.

I don't have anything personal against Mangino, but the mediocrity is frustrating.

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86finalfour 4 years, 5 months ago

hey jayhawkkox, "top caliber talent" is not Wright. He was a sub most of his years at KU. I still don't think Mangino is replaceable and I'm afraid the university will discover this years down the road. The question I have is who can they bring in who is better than Mangino?

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FSUJHAWK 4 years, 5 months ago

Innocent until proven guilty. I know as a nation we are only bounded to this principle in a court of law. However, we've used this tenet to guide most of our lives. One of the few exceptions is in the case of sports, particularly if the team in question is not as successful as it "should" be and revenues start declining. Given the bad national press, recent losing streak and potential impact on future recruits, attendance and donations I am not sure HCMM will be at KU next season if we lose the final game of the regular season.

Hopefully the report will vindicate HCMM and we will destroy Misery, thereafter the University and Fans should give our head coach one to two more years to turn things around.

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Michael Leiker 4 years, 5 months ago

Agree Alum 2000 - Everybody know who this guy is and loved him for it for 8 years, now as soon as it goes a bit sour it's like the tide has turned. Unreal. KU fans who are wanting his head will eat their words in a few years. This is not a program tier 1 coaches will want to come to. Fans leaving at halftime of close games, bball school, etc. Makes me sick. Definitely expecting too much. This program has the ability to be a contender 2 out of every 4 years. Get used to it Jayhawk Nation, stay behind this team, but geat freaking real.

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jayhawkboogeyman 4 years, 5 months ago

First, the LJW jumped all over this a chance to drag out old laundry ( the huge parking ticket article ). Second, wait to see what comes of this investigation. If his poor treatment of players, whether you personally think it is abusive or not, is confirmed, then we have a pretty clear answer for why the team has completely collapsed this year. He has always been a hothead, and with the losing streak, the frustration builds and his inability to motivate and proclivity for tearing guys down skyrockets. It also shows a clear double standard in the conduct that he expects of his players and demonstrates a pattern of duplicity; he does whatever he can to maintain his super cool image in the spotlight, so what is he doing when not in front of the cameras that he doesn't want to come out? For this team's performance alone, he should have been on one year notice. Now that he has lost the team by disrespecting them and tearing kids down (again, it doesn't matter the specifics, only that his methods are not effective for this group of players), it seems that he should go, and with all this attention, there is now no doubt that he is gone.

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shelleysue 4 years, 5 months ago

I have several big questions. Why is this just now coming out? Believe me I don't condone abuse but if this was so horrible why is this just now coming to light? Is it because previously Wright was playing but now that things have changed he thinks it's bad enough to file a complaint? Why are former players parents apparently now coming forward? Why didn't they file complaints while their kids were playing for Mangino? If he has such a nasty violent temper why has this never been brought up? Especially when KU was looking to hire him. Or have I just missed everything? Posted on another article someone claims that the police have been to the Mangino home on numerous occasions because of his temper. Has all of this been well hidden all this time or is it just not true? If Mangino is such a violent jerk how did he manage to get any coaches at all on his staff? And keep them? Especially those who came from places who "knew" about his temper? If someone is so disrespected and disliked how does her win coach of the year awards? Someone help me out here.

I guarantee you there is a long list of coaches who yell, cuss, poke or grab the arm of their players, and go off on ridiculous rants. I have mixed feelings. Being a player is really a job that you're getting paid for with a free education, not to mention the priceless experiences, and things are expected of you on AND off the field.

We don't know all the facts. I think we need to think realistically and not jump to conclusions.

This year has been a disappointment but I have been giving it a lot of thought. The seniors wanted to win the north so we wanted it too. But honestly I don't think there were many "experts" that ever thought we would actually win the north - from what I've read and I in no way have read everything. In reality we have a lot of young guys, inexperienced and playing new positions which meant weak lines on both sides of the ball. The strength we brought back consisted mostly of Reesing, Sharp, Meier, and Briscoe. And half of them have been injured a great deal of the season. Maybe we were expecting too much?? Those expectations and pressure might have made a bad thing worse.

Rock Chalk!

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KUbsee69 4 years, 5 months ago

I remember when a local grocery store was giving away free KU football tickets with each purchase of a specific brand of toilet paper. MM has lifted the program, not Perkins. Perkins does not recruit players or coach them. Look at the evolution of Kerry Meier into a premiere receiver. Who's idea was that?

Coach M: Non Illegitimis Carborundum!!!!!

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Kirk 4 years, 5 months ago

Great article. Stupid situation. REALLY stupid.

Let's consider all those great coaching candidates our man Lew is going to pursue. Already KU is a tough place to recruit top players; Lawrence is a small market; it's a "basketball school"; the Big XII competition is loaded with talent, etc.

And now, adding to this list of longstanding barriers -- the next coach will also have to be careful not to be too rough on the kids! Win big, fellah! But be nice, too. We're Kansas!

Carousel, anyone?

I guess we'll always shoot ourselves in the football.

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Bill Kackley 4 years, 5 months ago

Some of you people crapping about MM should go cheer for MU. Unless MM actually hit a player Fast trigger Lew should get off of it. I remember when a lot of you wanted to get rid of Bill Self. These are college football players not preschool children

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southtexashawk 4 years, 5 months ago

The ends never justify the means....our society does not, and CANNOT tolerate a bully no matter what his/her pay scale or level of gridiron success may be. We do not send our kids into a university program (music, engineering, or athletics) to be told derogatory things about themselves, their families, their hopes and dreams. We do not and cannot tolerate bullying, intimidation, or even a single poke to the chest. Football or not football, it has nothing to do with being "tough", but everything to do with not tolerating abuse in ANY form: emotional, physical, political, spiritual. What message do we send to young people when it is ok for your coach to abuse you, but if you go home and abuse your girlfriend or wife, or even your dog, you are scum. Think about it....

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jahawkdave 4 years, 5 months ago

It's crap to think we can't do better than Mangino, can't do better than an overall losing record in the Big 12. Orange Bowl and consecutive bowl trips have been great. I enjoy going somewhere warm the past couple winters to watch this team. But honestly we CAN and should do better.

This would not be acceptable for KU hoops because we have tradition. But we should accept it for football because we don't have a winning history?? That's foolish thinking. Top 20 pay, grade A facilities... we deserve better and can do better!

Thanks MM for what he's done, but now let's move onward and upward. Seriously how can this unraveling, investigations, terrible pr for ku, last place in weak north conf...be tolerated. It can't. Anyone who is the top paid man would be replaced for any of these issues alone. This is a business like any other, poor performance, poor pr and poor behavior gets you a pink slip.

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jayhawkox 4 years, 5 months ago

It's easy to say that the program wasn't worth Jack until Mangino got here because by all measures that's demonstrably true. We should all be deeply grateful for what he and his staff have done to make football at KU enjoyable and even a point of pride, but I dont think any honest Jayhawk can say that from what they've seen from this staff during their tenure to say that they are capable of takin that next step to REGULARLY compete with Nebraska in the north or to compete AT ALL with any of the Big 12 south teams that matter (sorry, Baylor). It may just be a convenient excuse with all of this controversy but the bottom line is that KU football needs to take that next step and I don't see this staff being the one to do it because top caliber talent in this country doesn't want to get berated and poked in the chest for every mistake. That's just reality, whether you agree with that mentality or not you can't say you dot feel that to be an accurate statement. I appreciate everything that Coach Mangino and his staff have done to build up KU football nationally, it's time for both parties to go their separate ways for the benefit of both parties. Loyalty in sports is closely tied to winning and that's just how it is. So thanks, good luck, but I'm ready for something new.

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hawkfan20 4 years, 5 months ago

Look Mangino has done a good job at getting KU to be respectable. Perkins has done a better job of paying a coach first class and giving him first class facilities. Mangino is the 17th highest paid coach in the country. Do you think we've gotten that? Yes, he has a winning record overall because we've feasted on the Northern Colorado's of the world. Mangino is 23-39 in the Big XII. If you want to throw out his worst and best years in the league, he's 16-30. Look folks, that's terrible. The North is a joke and we're looking at the cellar of the ENTIRE Big XII. Mangino is the one that didn't want to do the PR stuff and be judged by his Ws & Ls. Well, it certainly doesn't look good. That's why you do the PR stuff because when you hit a rough patch, you get the benefit of the doubt.

We had a good recruiting class last year and a good one thus far this year. You hire the right coach and with our schedule next year, there's a real opportunity to hit the ground running. No way you can retain Mangino at this point. It's time to move on and find a new coach.

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Ron_Kellogg 4 years, 5 months ago

He needs to be out of town by sundown

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Randy Maxwell 4 years, 5 months ago

Bottom line is this. His abusive treatment of players (all coaches are like that) was fine when KU was winning. Lose 5 in a row and it's not OK. That's crap. They knew about his behavior when they extended his contract. It was fine as long as your winning.

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Andy Hess 4 years, 5 months ago

you people are giving Mangino WAAAAY too much credit. overlooking the Orange Bowl season (which was clearly a fluke as we can all plainly see by the following two years' performance), he hasn't done much better than 8-5, 7-5, 6-6, and now likely 5-7 after starting out 5-0. Sorry folks. that's not anything to be that proud of. Also, if you think that Mangino was the one bringing in the recruits, think again. What did most of them say about their visits? "i loved the facilities." who set that up? Mangino? i think not. that was all Lew. In reality, if you want to thank someone for the raising of our football program from the dung-heap, thank Lew, not Mangino.

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Maracas 4 years, 5 months ago

I can't imagine all this drama is over a simple "poke" in the chest even if combined with this season's wins and losses. An entire athletic department at a major university doesn't go through all of this over something stupid like that. I'd be willing to bet there's more going on than what the department is telling us and what the media is giving us, even if media suspects more. If anyone thinks this is all about a "poke" in the chest and a disappointing season, I have a bridge in New York to sell you.

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ryanm1988 4 years, 5 months ago

The reason this only happens when the team is losing is because the abusive behavior (both inside and outside the program) only occurs when the team is losing. These are decisions (and actions) made by Mangino, not by Perkins. If he is fired, it is based on his own actions and decisions. We have seen this at all levels across multiple sports. Mangino is just the latest to let his ego override good judgment. The "investigation" will provide the facts necessary to make a clear decision.

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Todd 4 years, 5 months ago

If, and only if, more serious allegations come out should the school let go of coach Mangino. If the only damn thing that's happened is a poke to the chest and a few dirty words then I'll be disgusted if they fire him. This isn't peewee football or CYC soccer where a few digruntled parents should be able to run the show because their baby isn't getting some playing time. KU can hire whoever they want in the case that Mangino is releaved but look at Michigan. They thought they could hire whoever they wanted. So has Notre Dame. Those schools got "big names" and have a heck of an easier time recruiting than KU does and look at the mess they are in. If KU hires someone new now then we take a huge step backward regardless of who is brought in. We have to go through another 2-3 mediocre/bad years until the new coach can "get his own players in" and by then people will either not care or be calling for another new coach. MM needs to stay unless there is something more serious than a few hurt feelings going on here.

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jaygun 4 years, 5 months ago

Damage done to recruiting from losing, or in the past 24 hours from this incident? Why exactly is it hard to see Mangino coaching beyond this season? I don't see why Perkins would be looking for another coach. Who in the world does he think he's gonna get? To all the KU football players whining about this, they should listen to the immortal words of Dan Hawkins: "It's the Big 12! If you don't like it, go play intramurals brother."

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Janet Scott 4 years, 5 months ago

Well stated, Tom. This situation won't end up positive in any way. KU does not have a Bill Synder type to rely on to maintain stability and confidence should Mangino leave. KU football is again in crisis, and that is sad.

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86finalfour 4 years, 5 months ago

I agree wholeheartedly Keegan. I've been feeling the same way. KU fans have a short-term memory and now the university wants to speak up about his temper after some 9 years -- how feeble of them.

In my opinion, they will not get a better coach than Mangino. Unless they offer 2 or 3 times that of Bill Self's salary ( and they can't), no great coach will want to take over this program. Let's remember -- this isn't Kansas Basketball. And Mangino made Fall Saturdays relevant in Lawerence. Let's not forget that. If they fire him, I will be gravely disappointed - will never look at Perkins the same -- and I think it will be a huge mistake.

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KU_Alumn_2000 4 years, 5 months ago

I'm a little pissed off at what seems to be the majority of Jayhawk Nation. Mangino built this program up from scratch, and has put tremendous effort into it. Maybe ya'll forget what it was like prior to the Mangino era. Where is the freaking loyalty...is loyalty a forgotten character trait in todays society ? Jayhawk Nation is ungreatful...and seems to lack integrity in my oppinion.

Coach Mangino...as you would tell your players...persevere through the adversity and good things will come...on and off the field. And thank you for what you have done for our football program.

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Roy Scherff 4 years, 5 months ago

Well said Mr. Keegan. We are all to quick to forget the good things Mark Mangino has done for Kansas football.

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