Friday, November 14, 2008

Not so ancient history

Meeting in '04 not forgotten

Kansas linebacker Gabriel Toomey, right, trips up Texas running back Cedric Benson in the second half of the teams' 2004 meeting in Lawrence. Though KU threw a scare into the Longhorns, the Jayhawks ultimately suffered a 27-23 loss.

Kansas linebacker Gabriel Toomey, right, trips up Texas running back Cedric Benson in the second half of the teams' 2004 meeting in Lawrence. Though KU threw a scare into the Longhorns, the Jayhawks ultimately suffered a 27-23 loss.



KU football vs. Texas

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Complete video coverage of the Jayhawks' home game against Texas


Journal-World File Photo

KU's Charlton Keith (99) brings down Texas QB Vince Young in the second half of the '04 game.

Audio clips

2008 Nov. 11 KU football

Past Event

KU vs. Texas

  • Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:30 a.m.
  • Memorial Stadium, 11th and Maine streets, Lawrence
  • Not available / $60


Since the beginning of the season, there really has been no question as to what would emerge as the prominent story line heading into this week's Kansas University-Texas game.

Dollar signs.

Or, more precisely, the controversial ending that sparked Kansas coach Mark Mangino's heated and much-discussed postgame rant.

By now, you know the story. The Jayhawks were leading the Longhorns 23-20 late in the fourth quarter in '04, on the verge of upsetting No. 6 Texas. Facing a third-and-seven from the their own 26-yard line, then-Kansas quarterback Brian Luke found receiver Charles Gordon for what appeared to be a 17-yard gain and game-clinching first down.

Then a flag whipped through the afternoon air and landed nearby. Officials gathered to talk things over. After a few moments, they decided that Gordon had been guilty of pass interference. Texas got the ball back, surgically moved it down the field thanks to some late-game heroics by then-quarterback Vince Young, and, well, that was the end of that.

Afterward, Mangino stood at a podium, adjusted the microphone and unloaded a memorable diatribe against the officiating crew, using the now-notorious terms "dollar signs" and implying that the pass-interference penalty was a conspiracy to help the Longhorns qualify for a BCS bowl game - thus resulting in a hefty payout to the conference.

There was a media uproar, with the incident receiving national headlines, and Mangino eventually issued an apology and was fined $5,000 from the Big 12 Conference.

At 11:30 a.m. Saturday at Memorial Stadium, the Jayhawks will play Texas in Lawrence for the first time since, and if there's one thing Mangino would like to do, it's to move on from the '04 incident.

"That was four years ago," he said. "That's history. I'm not going to go there today. I understand in some quarters that would be a conversation piece, but we're really concerned about Saturday, and that game that happened in 2004 has no bearing."

In truth, much has happened since the teams' last encounter in Lawrence. Most of the players on both teams have since departed, the Jayhawks won themselves a bowl full of oranges, and a new U.S. president has been elected.

And while players were quick to defend their coach's actions this week - "It shows the character of a coach," said junior safety Darrell Stuckey, who was in attendance during the '04 game. "It shows the genuine care of his players and knowing that he wants a fair game for his players" - they also seem ready to move past the incident, as well.

"(It) was an interesting game for sure," senior defensive end John Larson said about the '04 matchup. "But mostly it's just (about), what can this team right now prove? A lot has gone on between now and then, and that game is sort of forgotten. And now it's just two different teams that are facing up against each other."

Earlier this week, Mangino shrugged off suggestions that the '04 game - and everything that followed it - represented any kind of turning point for his program, although it's worth noting that since the game, Mangino's team has gone 32-16, compared to 11-23 before the game.

With just two games left in a regular season that has not turned out quite like the Jayhawks had hoped - Kansas is 6-4 and likely out of the Big 12 North race - the focus is less on what happened four years ago and more about what Kansas can do to make a statement in its final home outing of the year.

If anything, players said, the '04 game represents proof that the Jayhawks, when clicking on all cylinders, can match up against any other team in the nation.

"I think it's any given Saturday," said senior linebacker Joe Mortensen. "If we come out and play our a game, I know we can play with any team in the country. So we've got to get things clicking on defense, and our offense, they're doing well, they've got to keep going. And if we do, I think we can play with anyone in the country."


Dirk Medema 9 years, 7 months ago

Jesse - That's real standup on your part, but rather silly for even needing to make the comment. It's not a stretcht for anyone to figure out as much. You all really aught to take it as a compliment. It just means that there isn't punctuation or something else equally trivial for some readers to whine about. Thanx for the coverage.Rock Chalk.

KGphoto 9 years, 7 months ago

Well, Joe Mortensen, I love your mindset. Get clicking. And tackling.On Saturday you better be clicking like Savion Glover on crack. You better have Gregory Hines, Sammy Davis and Cab Calloway flipping in their graves with all that clicking.It's your last home game. Hit em in the mouth.

Jesse Newell 9 years, 7 months ago

It's my fault, not Dugan's. I put up his feature for Saturday a day early and didn't change the days in the story.Jesse online editor

zissou 9 years, 7 months ago

Toto, we're late! I guess now I've got an excuse for why I've been drinking Bud Light at my desk for the past hour. Pre-game.

KUbsee69 9 years, 7 months ago

Well, remember, he's an MU guy. Time flies when you're flipping burgers.

Toto_the_great 9 years, 7 months ago

Jeepers! The game is today? I thought it was tomorrow. Better get the grill.

Kirk 9 years, 7 months ago

How many times does this article have to be written? Do they just re-post it every year?Strikewso -- I agree. Texas is going to knock, they're going to pound, they're going to kick our door down. Over and over again.

troutsee 9 years, 7 months ago

I tell you what's revenge time. The refs flat out stole that game from us 4 years ago. It's not TUs fault but typical of B-12 officiating that always seems to give the benefit of the doubt to OU/TU/NU. That call was outrageous. I remember at the time I was infuriated. I think Mangino was right on. It was a very late flag, not even thrown at the point of contact, and thrown by a ref from Texas.Can we win this year......YES WE CAN.

worrynotjhawk 9 years, 7 months ago

Maybe its just me, but when KU wins this game it would definitely secure the BCS and all its proponents in their mindset that the current system does work. UT would be out of the title hunt and it would be easier to have a tiebreaker between TTU and OU for the south (aka - when they face each other).All I'm saying is that a KU victory would allow some to say that "the system works," because there couldn't be so many Big 12 teams at the top of the polls. However, if UT were fortunate enough to win this game it would keep them, OU and TTU all in the top 5/6 (depending on poll). So, I agree, yes we can (a) beat UT on Saturday and (b) in doing so, secure the BCS for more years to come. Bottom Line: I want KU to win this game (mainly to prove to everyone that the team is legit) and possibly convert record-setting fair weather fans into long-term 'Hawk watchers.

JBurtin 9 years, 7 months ago

Win or lose, I'm proud of my team. A young year is not necessarily a bad one. There's a ton of promise for the future with some amazing players currently redshirting.I just want to see the group of seniors go out and play their butts off in Memorial Stadium one last time. This is another special group that has strengthened the foundation set by guys like Cane, Reid, and Floodman a few years ago.With an even stronger foundation, KU ought to be able to reach unprecedented heights in the near future. We owe them a debt of gratitude for the incredible amount of work they have put in, and some fond memories.

ku_tailg8 9 years, 7 months ago

OmahaKUMy bad then. I take back my statement then.

Gordon Penny 9 years, 7 months ago

My freaking God, why the media has to insist on repeating this crap that happened four years ago. GET OVER IT! I just can't stand when the media brings up old stories and tries to make news out of it. If Dugie actually thought that Magino's rant from four years ago has any bearing on this game at all, then he needs to get the hell out of town and go write for some low quality crap institution.Damn. Enough already.

FlaHawk 9 years, 7 months ago

Neither KU oe UT is as good as they were in 2004. KU has been up and is now back where they are comfortable.UT is UT and KU will probably never beat them as the programs are far different.When was KU favored or under 10 against UT. The answer is never

OmahaKUAlum 9 years, 7 months ago

ku_tailg8, they changed it. Yesterday it said "11:30 a.m. today" not "11:30 a.m. Saturday."

kcwizfan 9 years, 7 months ago

Well i got two tickets plus a parking passsec 5 row 6 seats 1 and 2 parking lot 50email at kcwizfan@gmail .com tonight with best offers (must be willing to meet tonight for tix exchange as i can not make game)thats kcwizfan AT

Gordon Penny 9 years, 7 months ago

btw, this same arguemnt applies to your ad nauseum reporting of Roy versus the Jayhawks last year where you ran story after story after story about that situation, and in most stories, you told people to just let it go, but you were the people keeping the story going. Ugh. Bad journalism.

Cody Stumma 9 years, 7 months ago

God... its suppose to be freezing tomorrow... I better find some warmer clothes... that band uniform didn't keep me warm at the Nebraska game...Come on KU! Let's make the Border War worth more this year again than just bragging rights!

Gordon Penny 9 years, 7 months ago

yeah, njjayhawk, good thing is here to remind you every single damn year of that overdone, rehashed, reworked, repeated ad nauseum story. The media seem to think that they have a duty to report on stories people want to hear, but I gotta tell you, I don't know anyone who wants to hear this story yet again.Maybe we should take a vote. Anyone who wants to read about Mangino's outburst 4 years ago again, please raise your virtual, please pay attention. If I am wrong, I will be a man and stand down. I hope you would, too.

ku_tailg8 9 years, 7 months ago

To the geniuses saying the LJW messed up and said the game was today. Well they didn't. They clearly said Saturday and tomorrow in their article. Mangino said "today" referring to today's interview (which was Thursday's interview). So technically speaking you already missed the game if you believe in the quote that Mangino thought the game "was today". Jeez if you want to gripe about the editor then at least get your story correct.

Dan Harris 9 years, 7 months ago

although I will be rooting like crazy for my boys to pull off a shocker, I'm not very optimistic. Let me be the first to tell everyone to not pile on Bowen. Go Hawks!

Cody Stumma 9 years, 7 months ago

njjayhawk,We've worn the same uniform every game this season except for the first game of the season. So, I don't know what you mean by hideous black uniform?

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