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Realignment Today: 9:41 p.m. - KS board of regents to meet Thursday; Beebe speaks; and OU, UT authorize presidents to act

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9:41 p.m. Update:

Getting into the late hours of the night, especially on the east coast (which is relevant now, right?) so we're probably winding down for tonight.

But I just came across this strong summary of the day's events from coast to coast. One of the most interesting notes in the story has to do with a source that claims that Notre Dame would look to the ACC before the Big Ten if the Irish are forced into a conference.

I'm not buying it. Not yet, anyway. Seems a little off, like it may be a calculated move, perhaps by the Irish, perhaps by the Big Ten, but more likely by the ACC, which still may want Texas. I'll look into it more for sure. Here's the link, though. Definitely worth a read.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6993604/big-east-big-12-talking-possible-merger-report-says

Real quick before the night gets away, here's the updated percentage wheel. Changes all over the place today. Wild, wild day even though there wasn't a ton of concrete news.

  1. Big 12 - 30%
  2. Leftovers - 23%
  3. Big Ten - 22%
  4. ACC - 13%
  5. Pac-12 - 9%
  6. Other - 3%

Stay tuned...

7:11 p.m. Update:

The Journal-World's Scott Rothschild just filed a story about the Kansas Board of Regents' plans to meet Thursday, in closed session, to discuss what's going on with the Big 12 Conference.

Here's a link: http://www2.kusports.com/news/2011/se...

Stay tuned...

6:33 p.m. Update:

Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe speaks.... But doesn't say much.

"The action taken today by the governing boards of the universities of Oklahoma and Texas was anticipated. It is my opinion that the case for the Big 12 Conference continues to be as strong today for all of our current members as it was last year, especially considering the welfare of those to whom we owe the greatest responsibility — the student-athletes. We continue to apply all effort and resources toward assuring our members that maintaining the Big 12 is in the best interest for their institutions."

Wouldn't expect him to say anything different. Not sure this reeks with confidence, though.

Stay tuned...

5:53 p.m. Update:

Here's a link to Bohls' story about the action taken by the UT regents today. Pretty much in line with what was said in the last update, but this goes into more detail.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/entries/2011/09/19/regents_give_po.html

To clarify, OU president Boren has total control. He can negotiate and authorize a move by the Sooners to another conference or give the thumbs up on them staying. UT president Bill Powers has the authority to negotiate and can give the thumbs up on UT staying in the Big 12 but if he determines that Texas needs to move, the UT regents would have to approve that.

Directly from Bohls' report: Any change in conference membership has to be submitted to the board to approve. Powers, however, wouldn’t need regents’ approval if he decides Texas should remain in the Big 12.

Looks like more waiting on OU and Texas. Oh boy! Stay tuned...

5:09 p.m. Update:

UT regents meeting has wrapped but not so much as a peep coming out of it. According to Kirk Bohls, of the Austin American-Statesman, UT president Bill Powers did not answer questions and ducked reporters by hustling to the elevator.

Bohls' most recent Tweet says: No small point. UT prez Bill Powers has authority to stay in Big 12, but cannot take action on own to change conferences; regents keep that.

Wild stuff. Never seen UT this vulnerable.

Stay tuned...

4:52 p.m. Update:

Here's a link to a short report from The Associated Press that indicates that there have been serious conversations between the Big 12 and the Big East's football schools about merging.

It doesn't get into specifics, but presumably, this merger would be on the table should OU and Texas leave. However, it's possible — and probably likely — that similar conversations have taken place that include the scenario of OU and Texas both staying.

Not a lot here but worth the look.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6993604/big-east-big-12-talking-possible-merger-report-says

If the OU and UT foursome leave the proposed merger would look like this (12): KU, K-State, Missouri, Iowa State, Baylor, Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, UConn, Rutgers, TCU and South Florida.

If the foursome stays, it looks like this (16): OU, Texas, Okie State, Texas Tech, KU, K-State, Missouri, Iowa State, Baylor, Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, UConn, Rutgers, TCU and South Florida.

Stay tuned...

4:46 p.m. Update:

More from Boren, via The Oklahoman's Travis Haney: http://twitter.com/#!/TravHaney

• Boren: "If I had the answer, I would reveal it." Says "sooner rather than later." No specific timetable. I don't think it should be that long."

• Also says talks with (MU chancellor Brady) Deaton, others in B12 been constructive. "two sets of very constructive conversations"

• Gist of Boren's talk: 2 options - Pac-12 or save Big 12. Not happy with Baylor, others, for threatening suit. Not happy with LHN.

Stay tuned...

4:34 p.m. Update:

Pac-12 expansion not a given? That could be the case. Here's a statement from UCLA athletic director Dan Guerrero, from UCLA's official site.

I know that the national discussion on conference expansion is dominating the conversation for many of you right now. Rumors are rampant and, as is often the case, not necessarily always on point. Ultimately, any decision to expand the Pac-12 will rest with the various school presidents and chancellors, working hand in hand with their respective athletic administrators and our commissioner.

Expansion just for the sake of expansion is rarely a good thing. Dr. Martin Luther King once said, "We may all have come in different ships, but we are all in the same boat now." Those of us in the same boat, the existing Pac-12 members, need to think long and hard as to the relevancy and value of bringing new members into the boat. Issues of academic compatibility, student-athlete welfare, competitive and financial implications all need to be thought out carefully by the various stakeholders. If further expansion is the right thing to do, then it makes sense to proceed.

Stay tuned...

4:31 p.m. Update:

Some interesting quotes from OU president David Boren following the OU board of regents meeting at which Boren was authorized to act on behalf of the university in the matter of conference realignment.

• Boren says OU has not decided to officially leave B12 yet. Staying in B12 "still on the table"

• Boren: too early to tell whether OU/Texas will be in same league

• Boren: "have had informal conversations w/ Pac-12. Those conversations have been warm, constructive."

• Boren: "I'm prepared to take that action as appropriate."

• Boren: "working very close w/ ok st" -- another source reports that whatever they do, OU and OSU will do it together.

• Boren said pods can make superconferences work

• Boren says threatening litigation no way to keep a conference together

All comments courtesy of Jake Trotter's Twitter feed. http://twitter.com/#!/Jake_Trotter

Stay tuned...

4:12 p.m. Update:

The Oklahoma regents just stepped out of executive session and voted unanimously to authorize OU president David Boren to act on the university's behalf regarding conference realignment.

What this means? It means that Boren, a political wizard with a massive ego, no longer needs the approval of the board to move OU into another conference.

What that means? OU is gone. Expect the Sooners to announce their application to the Pac-12 someday soon.

So now it's on Texas, whose regents also are in executive session at this moment.

Stay tuned...

3:56 p.m. Update:

Still meeting. Both OU's and UT's regents remain in executive sessions. OU got in theirs much earlier than UT and has gone past the one hour mark. UT jumped into theirs around 3:15 and is now pushing 45 minutes.

Not exactly sure what to make of this but the more people I talk to the more I think that actual news might come out of these things today.

If the executive sessions were simply to authorize school presidents to act in realignment, that shouldn't take an hour. Then again, with this mess, maybe it should.

Stay tuned...

3:19 p.m. Update:

While it took OU sifting through 27 items and nearly 2 hours to get to the executive session that dealt with conference realignment, regents meeting at Texas jumped into it about 15 minutes into their meeting Monday.

Both meetings are now ongoing, OU's on the verge of wrapping up and Texas' just getting started.

We should start to hear news flowing from both in the very near future.

While we wait, here's an unbelievable piece by The New York Times that examines the landscape of college football from a market and fan-base perspective. Just incredible stuff. Be sure to check it out.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

Stay tuned...

2:36 p.m. Update:

Just was told that the OU regents are about to head into executive session to discuss realignment. Also was told that even though they're within their rights to discuss such matters behind closed doors, any action they take would have to be done in public forum so you might want to click on the link and watch if you're interested.

Not expecting the actual action will be anything other than the regents officially authorizing OU president David Boren to make realignment moves should they become necessary. But you never know, right?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20110919_92_0_Wthlvi366254

Stay tuned....

2:01 p.m. Update:

As suspected, the OU regents will go into executive session to talk about realignment, meaning the live link is not worth watching... Thanks to Jake Trotter, former OU beat writer who now covers the Sooners for ESPN.com, for spreading the news.

Back to waiting. Stay tuned...

1:54 p.m. Update:

Props to the Tulsa World for jumping on a hot story and capitalizing. The newspaper's web site has set up a live video feed of today's OU board of regents meeting that's going on right now. Here's the link if you want to check it out. But, don't go too early, conference realignment talk won't hit until Agenda Item 28. Oh, and you can bet that when they get to that point they'll go into executive session and talk about some of this privately. Feel free to check it out, though...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20110919_92_0_Wthlvi366254

Stay tuned...

1:03 p.m. Update:

I know some of you hate Tweets being reported as news, but that's the world we live in. That said, Kirk Bohls of the Austin American Statesman, just sent out a Tweet that struck me as very interesting.

The Tweet: "Pac-12 doesn't need Texas or OU. But if it doesn't act now; UT, OU, rest go elsewhere, Pac12 might be looking at Fresno, Nevada in 2 years."

I'm sure this is just Bohls being speculative and covering all bases here, but it could be a sign that the roadblocks for UT to the Pac-12 are substantial.

There's also this Tweet from Chris Level, who covers Texas Tech: Continue to be told that #TexasTech feels very strongly about being in a league with Texas or A&M going forward. Don't see that changing

To me, the "or A&M" part of that Tweet is very, very interesting news for Kansas. Could Level be hinting at Texas Tech becoming the 14th team in the SEC, allowing either the Big 12 to survive or Kansas to head to the Pac-12? Perhaps the Red Raiders are getting nervous and/or tired of the Texas-to-the-Pac-12 thing dragging its feet.

Not trying to be overly optimistic, just making a couple of reads.

OU regents meeting now... Texas regents set to meet at 3 p.m.

Now hearing that Oklahoma State regents have scheduled a meeting for Wednesday.

Stay tuned...

12:45 p.m. Update:

Quick update from a good source who says that all options are still on the table for KU. This includes the Big 12, Big Ten, ACC, Pac-12 and, of course, the leftover conference...

With the OU regents meeting in about 15 minutes, hopefully we'll hear something soon from that camp that can move this thing forward. Wouldn't expect that to happen any time before 3 p.m., though. Perhaps even later.

For those who have asked, this has changed A LOT in the past 24 hours but here's my updated percentage wheel... for what it's worth.

  1. Big 12 - 33%
  2. Leftovers - 27%
  3. Big Ten - 18%
  4. ACC - 12%
  5. Pac-12 - 7%
  6. Other - 3%

Stay tuned...

12:04 p.m. Update:

Count UConn men's basketball coach in the camp of those at the school who would like to follow Syracuse and Pitt and move to the ACC.

Here are some of Calhoun's comments that point to that notion. I'm guessing Calhoun wouldn't come out and openly lobby for the ACC like this unless he knew/knows that there's a pretty darn good chance that the Huskies are headed there. We'll see.

http://eye-on-college-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/32103677

So how does this effect Kansas? Well, you've surely all read and heard by now that UConn and Rutgers to the ACC increases KU's odds of becoming more attractive to the Big Ten.

While that's true, the Big Ten angle only works if — IF — the Big Ten feels like expanding. I've heard from sources that spin it both ways. The Big Ten will join the party if the rest (SEC, ACC, Pac-12) go to 16 and, also, the Big Ten is the Big Ten and will not be forced into doing anything.

I tend to believe the latter, but I also believe that KU and MU could sell their admission and have both been working behind the scenes for weeks to do so.

Stay tuned...

11:34 a.m. Update:

Great stuff here from Jon Wilner, the best Pac-12 reporter I've seen on this deal.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2011/09/19/pac-12-expansion-the-latest-on-texas-revenue-sharing-and-16-team-division-alignment/

Lots of good nuggets in there, including talk about Kansas schools being the Pac's "fallback" plan if Texas can't overcome obstacles to get UT and Tech in.

Also, Wilner clears up what's needed from Pac presidents for expansion. Nine votes. His parting comment: "Bottom line: If (Pac-12 commissioner Larry) Scott needs the votes, he’ll have the votes."

Stay tuned...

11:13 a.m. Update:

Here's Pete Thamel's report, from The New York Times, about the obstacles that remain for the Pac-12, many of which are significant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/sports/ncaafootball/19pac12.html?_r=3

  1. Texas regents approve. That could happen today.
  2. Reach a solution regarding The Longhorn Network and potential Pac-12 network.
  3. Get approval from Pac presidents to expand.

Not sure how many votes it would take. I'm looking into that. But my best guess is nine. If that's the case, the Big 12 leftovers may have to get down and and dirty here and lobby for two more schools in the Pac-12 to expose expansion.

It's already well known that recent Pac-10 pick-ups Colorado and Utah are against expanding east. Here's why: http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18834617

If the number is nine and two other Pac-12 schools agree, the Big 12 could be saved. Although, under that scenario, you're looking at one angry and divided conference.

Good news? I don't think it will come to that. But it's on the table. Along with everything else.

Stay tuned...

11:02 a.m. Update:

Here's a link to an interesting poll conducted by Baylor about how fans feel about super conferences. Won't be news to you guys, I'm sure, but it may be comforting to know that the majority of people out there like you are against crazy expansion.

http://www.baylor.edu/survey/

Stay tuned...

10:16 a.m. Update:

In an effort to understand KU's position in all of this a little more, I reached out to sources at Nebraska and Missouri this morning and asked them to analyze how KU was handling the whole thing.

Nebraska, because they actually did jump conferences and Missouri because they were awfully vocal about doing that last year and appear to have changed their tune this year. Like KU, the folks at MU have remained loyal to the Big 12 and, for the most part, silent in the public eye.

Both sources said that was the best way to go with realignment, especially this time around when things can change so rapidly. Why? Because, in this deal, you're only alive so long as you have options. Coming out and saying something against any school or conference could burn a bridge and limit your options if/when the time comes when you might need that school or conference's help.

The best analogy I've been given came from someone with good knowledge of the realignment goings on and went like this:

When an athlete comes out and and tells a coach how hard he’s working, that coach has to kind of question it. Why not just show how hard you're working or just work hard. Why does he have to talk about it?

If an athlete goes up to his coach and says ‘I’m busting my butt’ but nothing comes of it and he's still the same old player or still making the same mistakes, he ends up looking like a clown.

Same can happen for coaches.

If a coach constantly says ‘Recruiting’s going well, recruiting’s going well, recruiting’s going well,’ and then at the end of the day no one signs or he signs all two-star guys, that coach can look kind of foolish, too.

I think that's what KU is doing here.... making sure that Kansas doesn't end up looking like a fool. It would've been easy several times along the way to say that KU was negotiating with this conference or aligning with this school, but if they had done that and then things had changed, the likelihood for greater panic would've gone up.

Not saying it's right or wrong... That's for you to decide and for the ultimate outcome to determine. Just trying to help you understand where their way of thinking is coming from.

That said, if either OU or UT announce any kind of real news today, I think you can expect KU's leaders to comment.

Stay tuned...

9:47 a.m. Update:

I'm sure by now, many of you expected something major to have happened. It hasn't. And it might not be today.

While the rest of the Big 12 is waiting for news to come out of a meeting of Oklahoma University's board of regents, Texas continues to brainstorm with the Pac-12 on ways to get itself, its network and its partners into the league. Don't count Kansas out yet.

Today's meeting at OU is scheduled for 1 p.m. in Tulsa. There are 28 items on the agenda so we're looking at this being at least a 2-3 hour meeting. In the meantime, expect an absolute firestorm of rumors and speculation, much like we saw yesterday.

For more about UT's current status with the Pac-12, check out this report from Kirk Bohls of the Austin American Statesman. There's mention of Kansas at the top, and most of it comes in a positive light and is in line with what I've been saying all along --- that I believe KU will end up where Texas ends up. Bohls doesn't come right out and say that, but, if you read into it, I think you can see that some of the hang up here is the status — mostly academic — of Texas Tech, Okie State and, to some degree OU. In a perfect world, I have no doubt that the Pac-12 would rather have KU than Texas Tech or Oklahoma State. World's not perfect, though. So now we wait.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/9-things-and-1-crazy-prediction-for-this-1865859.html

Here's another one from Bohls that goes into more detail about where UT currently stands.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/longhorns/sources-plan-could-bring-ut-three-others-from-1865834.html

As you can see, Sunday's reports of a deal being finalized were, in fact, premature. Again, the Oklahoma and Texas foursome to the Pac-12 may still go down and it may still be soon, but nothing was even close to final as of Sunday.

That means there's still time for schools like Kansas and Missouri to scramble. They're doing that. No doubt about it.

Stay tuned...

Comments

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

Hey, that's my line. I can see once again I am going to have to upgrade my avatar. Like the little TM. I have avatar envy and am seeking therapy. Maybe it is conference envy, not sure. I am a troubled man nowadays.

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

But I feel like the Big10 owns my soul. It started with Woody Hayes and "three yards and a cloud of dust." Then, there was the "Big House", Joe Pa, and even the Little Brown Jug. I am not sure I can give up all the trappings of this world.

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

The Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

rhollinshed 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm praying with you fellow Jayhawk Brother!

Eric Dawson 8 years, 2 months ago

Thanks, Matt. Really appreciate your researching and reporting on this. Best on the internet for pulling the strings together to make the best possible coherent picture of an incoherent situation.

Brian Skelly 8 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for the updates Matt. My guess is your hits have skyrocketed. Keep up the good work!!!

Mark Modrcin 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt--I know being with Texas wouldn't be a bad thing, but if that doesn't work, the Big 10 seems the best place to be.

Do we know how much contact there has been between Mizzou and KU? It would seem that from the way schools are falling into place, a Mizzou/KU combo could be attractive to the Big 10. KU and Mizzou should work together, use the STL and KC markets, AAU statuses, and approach the Big 10 with everything they've got.

DCJayhawk0208 8 years, 2 months ago

You can file a request under the Kansas' Open Records Act for BGL's phone logs, whom she called, who called her, and when:

http://www.provost.ku.edu/open-records-act.shtml

You could also request copies of her emails (both received and sent).

I'm not sure if Zenger falls under KORA or if the Athletic Department is technically a private entity.

DCJayhawk0208 8 years, 2 months ago

This is what I do for a living, man....

http://www.ksag.org/page/g-response-time-and-process

  1. How soon should I get a response?

The public agency must "act upon" (respond to) a record request as soon as possible, but no later than the end of the third business day following the date the request was received. K.S.A. 45-218. Weekends and holidays are not included when counting.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

It is "fans" like you that cause our issues!

Probably leave at halftime and complain about the QB, coach etc, ad nauseum.

Just STFU!!!!!

DCJayhawk0208 8 years, 2 months ago

I've actually FOIAed the feds and all 50 state governments. The worst is CMS. Even the IRS is easier to deal with.

And I've had pretty good luck using KORA.

Eric Harrison 8 years, 2 months ago

My concern with the B1G is a couple of things. 1. They are likely alright being slow in 'keeping up with the Joneses'. Meaning they will likely not add just to add. They want Notre Dame, first, second, third, and fourth in order to get to 16. I don't see who they add and why they add. 14 or 16 doesn't provide anything to them really. 2. Even if they 'get in early' on expansion while everyone is panicking and looking to jump ship, KU/MU add little in the way of TV markets. Illinois can lay claim to 1/3-1/2 of the StL market, Mizzou completes the market. The KU-MU tandem completes a market and brings one new one. So 1.5 markets for 2 schools seems a little light in the 'addition' perspective. Going East bring more TVs. 3. Yes the academic component is there and they really want that (ND and Neb the only exceptions I could forsee)

I'm hopeful, but we shall see. I'm more hopeful that the academic component keeps Texas Tech out and let's us sneak in.
Time will tell and I am a nervous wreck about it all.

Eric Dawson 8 years, 2 months ago

"Going East brings more TVs."

Agreed, but if UConn and Rutgers go ACC and WVU the SEC, as seems likely (the first two are both reportedly in heated discussions with the ACC, and at least one SEC site is reporting WVU has applied to the SEC), the B1G has no in the east to go after that meets its desired membership critieria.

How do I figure that?

The ACC's population footprint (i.e., potential TV market) is growing larger than the national average, the Rust Belt's is stagnant at best. The ACC has shored its walls from defection over the weekend by almost doubling its exit fees to $20M. Add in the addition of Pitt and Syracuse and the likely adds of UConn and Rutgers to become the first superconference, and no ACC member has any real incentive to leave for other so-called "greener" markets.

tolawdjk 8 years, 2 months ago

The sad thing, with the writing obviously on the wall, is that the U chooses to remain silent on this.

This weekend we saw what happens when Universities take their future into their hands and act...the ACC expands and the Big east contracts. They Cuse and Pitt didn't sit on their thumbs and say they wanted to maintain the status quo.

Of course, Gill didn't do us any favors by forgetting how to play defense on Sat. either. In a world driven by the pigskin those are not the kinds of records that need to be set.

orbiter 8 years, 2 months ago

If you wanted to refute your own argument about wanting KU's admins to be publicly vocal about conference realignment you couldn't have chosen better examples than Pitt and Cuse to the ACC, because nothing was said until it was 100% going to happen. Good job.

Reason much?

mdfraz 8 years, 2 months ago

I'll jump in when it's early...... Matt, I've been glued to your blogs the last week or so and your information is about as good as I've seen. The links help give an outside perspective as well, so thanks. I'm incredibly worried, as are most of us obviously, about where KU ends up in all of this, and there are some very bad outcomes that are very possible. Right or wrong, it seems all too possible that KU gets left out in the cold, especially if conferences stop at 14 teams (i.e. SEC and ACC) which would seem to only prolong the realignment mess before we have the four 16-team megaconferences. Also, if the Big 10 really doesn't want to expand to 16, we are in major trouble.

That said, reading between the lines from your comments, it would appear that you know a bit more from sources that you aren't letting on, and understandably so. Clearly nothing is set in stone until the ink dries on applications/acceptances (how long have we been waiting for aTm to SEC to become official???), and it's fluid, but you seem to have some strong basis for faith in BGL and SZ. Without knowing what and who you know, I don't know that my faith would be that strong, but I'm hoping that your cautiously optimistic view of our future is accurate. Regardless, thanks for keeping us in the loop, as much as is possible, anyway.

mdfraz 8 years, 2 months ago

From what I've read of TK, he seems to think we end up in the hodgepodge of former Big 12/Big Least teams. Not exactly optimism. Perhaps realism, but not optimism.

mdfraz 8 years, 2 months ago

I have been paying attention.

The Big 12 was done last year with CU and NU leaving. Anyone who thought the conference would survive more than about a decade was deluding themselves. I didn't expect that we'd collapse just one year after the first defections, but this conference had no long term legs. For TK, or anyone else, to try to hold on to this conference was lunacy.

Anyone who saw where realignment was headed knew right away that the Big Least was not going to help KU. It's been amazing that they've remained a BCS conference, when about half their schools don't even have football, and those that do are generally pretty weak comparatively speaking. Add to that the fact that the Big Least, as we have now seen, was almost certainly going to be next in line to be poached, and there was no long term viability there either. KU to the Big Least meant KU was in big trouble already.

You can say that I'm pointing this out after the fact, but all I can say is I've dreaded the idea of going to the Big Least since that option was first floated. Keeping the Big 12 together, losing ONLY aTm MIGHT have worked had we hit a home run with BYU, TCU, Boise, and possibly even somehow snagging a team like ND or Arkansas, however unlikely those last two scenarios were. However, if/when OU and UT leave, the Big 12's slim chances of survival are snuffed out.

In other words, if TK thought maintaining the Big 12 or getting a Big Least bid were cause for optimism, count me out for that type of rosy thinking.

mdfraz 8 years, 2 months ago

Bottom line is I really don't care what TK writes. He's offered no real insight in any of this, and he's changed his stance several times. Again, it's a fluid situation requiring nimble thinking, but he hasn't done half the work to come up with answers that Tait has. As someone mentions below, while Tait busts his butt calling and talking to sources and blogging numerous times a day, TK writes one article a day, apparently with just his opinion on what will happen, rather than trying to gather info from outside sources. Basically he's done what all of us have done here in the comments section, but he gets paid to do it.

mdfraz 8 years, 2 months ago

I can only think of Tommy Lee Jones' character in Under Siege when I read that.....

mdfraz 8 years, 2 months ago

I typed that first, but then thought that it was Jones. Either way, I caught the reference. Busey is an excellent crazy dude.

Mike Gammill 8 years, 2 months ago

These are football based moves these conferences and schools are making. We stink at pigskin. Our only hope is to be invited to a conference with a healthy respect for basketball. If we don't get that, even our beloved program could be in trouble.

agraves 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt...are you hearing any strong possibilities out there for KU? I know you have said that BGL and SZ are hard at work behind the scenes (which I believe they are)...it would be nice to have some idea as to what is happening. Do you have any info regarding KUs possibilities from your contact?

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

When this is all over, it will be fascinating to read about what was happening behind the scenes. We don't know if there haven't been discussions with the other conferences. I really don't know what people expect. What good does it do to come out and publicly say we want to move to the Pac 12 or the Big 10. If K-State or MU did that, they would be ridiculed on this board.

I am not optimistic that KU will land in one of the four power conferences, but sadly, I'm not sure what we could do about it. Let's face it, of the nine remaining conference schools, we are probably the 5th or 6th most attractive school behing UT, OU, MU and OSU.

I have read a bunch of articles and unfortunatelly, very few even mention KU as a possible team in one of the power conferences.

Brian Skelly 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree with the concept that things can happen behind closed doors, the big curtain, out of sight.

But what's most distressing to myself and other alums and fans im sure is the fact that there appears to be little proactive response from KU higher ups with all of this. I dont doubt they are work on it, but in what level and capacity?

Im quite sure the higher ups are aware of the gravity of the situation. But we get no reports at all from you guys or other news sources of even a modicum of activity there. There's a big difference between being on the phone with someone and being in they're office. I think this is what bothers me, and my guess is others, most.

Id certainly feel better if we had reasonably credible reports that they are doing this. But Ive seen nothing from the LJW, Star, Eagle, or any national publications in regards to this. I've seen "you can bet they are working the phones" stuff. But I dont wanna bet, Id like to simply have knowledge worth verifying, thats all.

Im quite sure your in the same boat, but we've seen ONE public mentioning of this by KU higher ups -- Zenger a few weeks ago when Boren made his 'wall flower' statements. We seem to be defining the wall flower at the moment.

I guess my main question statement Matt is do you have any information that isnt simple internet conjecture or spin in regards to us?

Laurence Cooley 8 years, 2 months ago

There was absolutely no news, chatter or speculation on the pitt and syracuse move. so no news doesnt mean bad news.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

I've written it a few times in the blog but apologize if I didn't make it clear.

KU is absolutely being active behind the scenes and checking into every possible scenario out there. And they have been doing so for the past couple of weeks.

The bottom line is, like it or not, KU simply has to sit tight on this one and see what shakes down from the few schools who have the power, those being OU, Texas and, previously, A&M.

KU wants to be in the Big 12. And not just because they want to survive this mess. They want to be there because it's the best fit for them as a university. You can see then why any actual moves won't come until they know for certain that the conference is dead. We're not there yet.

Hope that helps.

Billy Blanks 8 years, 2 months ago

Calm down PAC boy.

Matt is doing an excellent job of compilling information in one location from other writers and inside sources. He is acting as a professional by not giving up information provided to him in confidence. Thnak you Matt

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm basing it on knowledge. Good sources have told me as much and I believe them. You should too.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

You'll have to sign the waiver before you do that... My lawyers tell me I cannot be held responsible for what happens to those who do as you suggest... :-)

rockemchalkemrobots 8 years, 2 months ago

"KU wants to be in the Big 12." I suppose finishing last in a 4 team conference does play better than last in a 10 team conference.

AcesWild 8 years, 2 months ago

KANSAS WANTS BIG 12 TO SURVIVE BUT AT WHAT
POINT DO THEY REALIZE IT AINT HAPPEN THAT TV RUNNING THE SHOW . AND THE BIG 12 SOUTH WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH KANSAS OR ANY OTHER NORTH TEAMM .KANSAS ALLREADY. GIVE SPOT TO UTAH ..YOUHAVE THE SOURCES.. THIS A BUSINESS. KANSAS NEEDS TO START GETING TO CONF /

tychi_jayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

As always, top notch from Tait.

Matt, How likely is it that the B1G will also expand? They've been pretty quiet with all this mayhem going on around them.

Then again, the ACC was quiet and then BOOM, they shot the Archduke Ferdinand.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

I've heard it both ways.

A. That the Big Ten will not, under any circumstances, feel forced to expand. and B. That if the others go to 16, the B1G will follow at some point.

Hard to say right now. My gut tells me they will expand.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 2 months ago

All right Matt, now you've done it. I'm a KU fan, but also a Big 10 fan. I get mildly perturbed by some here who call it the Big1G, but now you, a staff reporter doing it? You're continuing my mild perturberance!
Thanks for all the info, and if it comes down to us leaving, the Big 10 is the best bet, followed by nothing else being remotely good for KU except they represent survival.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

Technically, you should spell out "10" Big Ten :-)

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't they adopted the B1G logo in some manner? Swear I've seen it endorsed by Big Ten schools...

Least of our worries, though, right?

DanHogan95 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm an MSU guy and I don't even know what to call it. My gut feeling is that further expansion wasn't ruled out (explicitly or subconsciously) so they never really defined the conference.

The logo is now B1G, even though it looks more like B16 than the B10 it is supposed to be close to. There are B1G banners at all of the stadiums now, too.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for the info. I always assumed people using that were insulting the Big 10 in some way, although I never figured out the insult. So I take back my harsher words. And yes, it is the least of our worries.

pstonef 8 years, 2 months ago

OK, will someone please explain to me why we are wringing our hands about the re-alignment issue? We knew it was coming..big $$ dictated this years ago. Also, why do I keep sensing the dissing of the might Jayhawk BB Nation?? KU baslketball will be welcome wherever we land and football can only benefit fomr a conference re-alignment situation since it will force us to take a look at how we recruit etc.

Let's be honest fellow Hawks. No matter where we land we will RCJH and still be a classy and well respected university. ACC would be fin for the bball rivalries with UNC and DOOk as would the PACINFINITY. Big East = Big Mistake and Big XII even with BYU and AF is not favorable....my vote would be for the B1G with KSU and ISU, Sure the markets may be smaller, but the rivalries and the income from a cumulative Midwest regional conference TV deal would be rewarding fo rthe likes of ESPN. Add to that pour ability to play in the Central time zone (mostly) and our recruiting wouldn't take any major hits.

Bottom line is that no matter what we will be fine.

pstonef 8 years, 2 months ago

apologize for the typos...been a long day already.

Joseph Kuebel 8 years, 2 months ago

No chance this happens. None. Not unless KSU develops an ocs league level education and raises academic standards that drastically (which isn't even possible) in the next 4 yrs...

No way, get real!

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

Keegan is a terrible columnist. And I hope Matt's reporting is NOT influenced by him. He (Keegan) has to be the laziest columnist there is. If you track his columns on realignment, you'll find his storyline played out like this...

  1. No worries, KU will be fine however realignment falls (we'll be in a BCS conference).

  2. Saving the Big12 is KU's best option.

  3. The Big East is a good fall-back, KU will be able to compete better in football, what a great hoops conference, and Bill Self wants to recruit East Coast anyway.

  4. The Big East is our BEST option, see reasons above.

  5. Oh crap, it looks like KU going to end up with a bunch of leftovers from the Big East (this mornings column).

The guy is SO lazy. Almost everyone on this board could connect the dots... The Big East was dead-man-walking, going to lose Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, Pitt and West Virginia to the ACC, BIG and/or SEC. Not sure exactly where they were going, but obviously not going to be staying in Big East. No we know Syracuse, Pitt to ACC. We'll soon see UConn to ACC, West Virginia to SEC, and likely Rutgers to ACC.

He never factored in the huge financial hit we'd take with Big East football money, compared to what we have in Big 12, or would have in PAC or BIG.

The sad things is there are people that think he knows what he's talking about.

He should have been pulling the firt alarm weeks ago (that KU leadership better be proactive as hell, find KU a home, and not wait around for OU and Texas to determine our future).

Matt, don't be influenced by this guy's point of view.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years, 2 months ago

It really is up to the Pac who they vote on to be let in--no matter who says they are applying. So, hopefully they stick to their guns on academics and realize OU, OSU and Tech aren't up to snuff in academics.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

I've been told that some within the Pac-12 are having a real hard time with this. They want OU and UT but at what cost?

Again, if this were a perfect world, they'd look at add OU, UT, KU and probably Missouri. But politics make that difficult to do.

I will say this, I know KU fans are nervous, but if I'm at Oklahoma State or Texas Tech I'm not exactly sleeping soundly either.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt--if Pac votes no---what's your prediction on % chance Big 12 stays together ? I would think it is a good possibility--would have to make some changes so everyone is happy but that could be worked out.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

I would think that would be the only option for Big 12 schools at that point.

OU not going to the SEC.

Texas could revisit ACC talk but wants Big 12.

The rest would jump for joy.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

Wouldn't OSU and TTU get picked up pretty quickly by the SEC?

Good fit?

Pbbut 8 years, 2 months ago

What's ND going to do? The blowup of their basketball conference certainly has to have them evaluating their position. If they decide the Big 10 is their future, will they apply there? Does that open the Big 10 to additional teams? They would have to go to 16 to ensure a spot for us. At 14, they have choices that may not include us. The ND AD was priceless, shocked that these Big East schools were applying elsewhere, acting in their own best interest. Can you say NBC?

jgkojak 8 years, 2 months ago

ND will stay Indy until the last dog dies.

If Rutgers goes to ACC (I'm almost certain they will at this point) then the B10 has nowhere to turn if it wants AAU member schools.

Assuming they won't be able to raid the ACC (20 million buy-out, etc)

They have exactly these choices: assuming Notre Dame is Team #13... 14. Texas, 15. Missouri, 16. Kansas, 17. Vanderbilt(!), 18. Iowa State

As you can see... ND and Texas have to be B10 members to push KS down to #16. As it stands, if ND or Texas or out, the B10 will be phishing for its next member...

nckujayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

To all who gripe about Keegan, I don't like his columns either, but he gets over 100 responses to a column about not much of anything. Looks like he has done his job.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

Point taken.

Both of them... My guess, though, is that it's close to that number, no? I think most fans at most places would have been completely fine leaving things the way they were.

FeaRRaef 8 years, 2 months ago

I still try to put a positive spin on it -- if there are 68 BCS teams with Notre Dame...and 64 spots in a potential 4 conference 16 team scenario...then doesn't our basketball put us in the top 64 programs? There has to be a spot for us. We'd have to beat out Baylor, ISU, KST, and Southern Florida, right? or Cincy?

I know the NCAA is unable to dictate what goes down in this whole process, but they also stand to lose out if the re-alignment impacts their cash cow in March Madness.

Quite an impression these money-grubbing college presidents are making -- students and all else be damned, we're going where there's money. There's a word for people that sell themselves for money isn't there??

Graczyk 8 years, 2 months ago

I was going to go with "politicians," but both work equally as well.

Bville Hawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I called Texas an "uptown whore" in a post a couple weeks ago. Can they be included?

Billy Blanks 8 years, 2 months ago

If they all go to 16 is the biggest question in all this. However if we assume there are 64 spots then we probably get the best case scenario: B1G

Mike Barnhart 8 years, 2 months ago

A lot of folks think the Big Ten puts a high priority on schools belonging to the AAU (Assoc. of American Universities). With Pitts move to the ACC, there are only five AAU schools left to choose from: KU, MU, Iowa St. Rutgers & Texas.

Our best chance to get the Big Ten invitation is for Texas to go elsewhere. Texas isn't willing to share their money equally with all the other Big Ten schools anyway.

That leaves KU & MU as easy choices for the Big Ten. They could lock up the midwest by taking KU & MU. Then, they could wait for Notre Dame & Texas as possible additions down the road. Maybe pick up Rutgers & Iowa State if everyone else goes to 16 teams.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

We can only hope that the B1G comes through, or the Big 12 stays together and expands.

FeaRRaef 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't care how many TV sets are in Rutgers stupid footprint. You can't tell me more people would watch Rutgers vs. Duke in football than KU vs. Duke in hoops.

Where is the common sense in this whole equation? Unbeflippinlievable.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

I know man, I wanted some of these people to look at dollars pouring in instead of "how many TV sets are within said miles of campus." Base fan interest on something tangible. Even ticket sales would be a far better measuring stick. A lot of schools in large cities are claiming to be the greatest thing to athletics, and in truth, nobody in the metro area gives two $hits about their program.

For example, Rutgers brings the New York/Jersey market? My a$$ they do. New York is a pro sport town. Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, and even the pitiful Knicks get more love than any college sports program.

Besides, most fans are fair-weather fans. 75% of Auburn fans were Alabama fans the year prior. How many Patriots fans were there REALLY prior to Feb. 3rd, 2002?

Pbbut 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt-Loved the Baylor poll, and it reflects everything I've seen, coaches, players, parents, alumni, education administrators are all against this madness. What the hell keeps driving this? A few ADs with their panties in a twist? I've even seen that the networks are no more than ambivalent about it.
College sports is an arena heavy with tradition. To me, not playing OU, Nebraska, and Mizzou is more than just a disappointment, it flies in the face of why these rivalries were initiated and is a contradiction to the lip service schools are paying to the athletes. It's all about the money. Personally, I'd still rather go on a road trip to Ames than to Stanford. That's who I am.

Pbbut 8 years, 2 months ago

Enough culture, with plenty of good manners,

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Seriously, Ames over Stanford? It's that type of thinking that caused KU to be a Chicken Little last time around and agree to the LHN among other concessions - which in turn led to this crisis.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

Don't know man, Palo Alto is pretty nice. I still have my GB Brewery shirt from back when I was young and hip.

Stephan123 8 years, 2 months ago

KU BB could join up with any salvaged but respectable BB conference (Big East's Louisville, Villanova, Georgetown, etc.) and relegate the other sports such as football to a Mid-America located conference. Huge revenue drop but BB would remain relevant.

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

Connect the dots...

No BCS football conference means HUGE cut in athletic budget (which impacts hoops too).

Conference with KU, K-State, Iowa State, and these BBall schools will impact recruiting big time (won't be able to recruit big-time or would be significantly harder than being in BCS conference).

Bill Self doesn't want to be in mid-major conference, so he bolts within next couple of years.

So how does this work for hoops?

sm5561 8 years, 2 months ago

Big East still has a lot of good basketball schools. It would mean a huge cut from FB TV revenue, but I don't think that would affect basketball. I think it would actually be good for our BB recruiting playing against Marquette, Depaul, ND (Chicago area) and St John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Georgetown (NY, Philly, DC). I don't think that would that be a "mid-major" basketball Conference.

With that said, it would certainly hurt us in Football and non-revenue sports, so I hope it doesn't come to that.

Jason Montgomery 8 years, 2 months ago

Can we just drop to 1-AA in football and join the Missouri Valley and be done with it?

doctorWho 8 years, 2 months ago

Wow. Now there is a doomsday scenario . . .

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

jjjjjhok: With your five remaining,what about Missouri to SEC, KU and Iowa St. to Big Ten, Texas to PAC12 and Rutgers to ACC as a partner with Temple. This maybe keeps the Iowans happy with both Iowa and State in same conference. Also, although I've been accused of baiting something called the Civil War, 150 years ago, it would keep Missouri out of the Biig Ten and add KU with no such problems. The SEC would be a nice fit for Missouri, Texas could continue down it's selected path and Rutgers/Temple would be a good fit to tie-up the Northern ene of the ACC with NYC and Philly. markets.

FlintHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Again, it would be delicious if you could engage in civil discourse instead of slamming everyone who isn't you.

I'm guessing (G-U-E-S-S) that you haven't spent a lot of time in the South or around born-and-bred Southerners.

(1) In the South, it is not the "Civil War." It is the "War Between the States" — that is the USA and the Confederacy.

)2) Prejudice against "Yankees" is still alive and well in the South. My ex and I went to graduate school at a university I'd never really considered "Southern," which is less than 400 miles from Lawrence. The natives considered us "rabble-rousing Yankees."

It's real, 00

Billy Blanks 8 years, 2 months ago

Kirk Bohls of the Austin American Statesman on 810 said he thinks the PAC is the most likely landing place for UT however he said it could take a week or two to come to fruition.

He also stated talks with ACC are still on the table.

DevilHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

California schools: Against adding UT. Not the school, but the fans, the Longhorn Network, and the ego. The bigger concerns would be the Oklahoma schools and Texas Tech.

Oregon and Washington schools: Probably don't care too much either way. Would probably support expansion as long as travel is considered and the financial benefit is worth it.

Arizona schools: Depends on which schools are added, how much additional revenue is generated, and whether or not they continue to play in L.A. every year.

Colorado: Entirely against expansion.

Utah: Probably doesn't care too much and is just happy to be in an AQ conference.

UT + 1 is probably an easy sell for expansion, especially if the "+1" is Oklahoma or KU. My guess would be a vote of 9-3 in favor of expanding to 14 teams. Expanding to 16 teams might not make it though, unless it is for UT, Oklahoma, KU, and Mizzou.

TalksForALiving 8 years, 2 months ago

Anyone else getting tired of Texas? Will they EVER be happy?

Just think if the Big 8 had avoided Texas and the Big 12 to begin with...

Where would we be now and MORE IMPORTANTLY, what lessons have we learned as a result?

Texas greed destroyed one conference and now it is threatening to destroy another.

Let THEM go and the rest stay together.

TalksForALiving 8 years, 2 months ago

No Orange Bowl? I think something like 40+ heritage Big 8 teams have played in the Orange Bowl.

No Bill Self? It's Kansas Basketball. C'mon.

I think you are overlooking the fact that the Big 8 schools could have easily added 2, 4, or even 6 other schools to make an even better - and much more secure - conference than falling for the allure of Texas.

Big 12? Yes. Just not THAT Big 12.

tman1991 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt -- What is your updated wheel %??

Ps great stuff..

LAJayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

+1. Even though it changes roughly every 20 minutes, I'm curious to see your feel as of now.

DanHogan95 8 years, 2 months ago

Here's a neat blog post about cutting a 16-member league. This guy uses the Big Ten (er Big 10 or B1G, whatever..) and adds ND, KU, Mizzou, and UConn as the example. I'd guess UConn is a bit off, but that's not his point.

http://www.offtackleempire.com/2011/9/19/2435122/the-big-ten-expanding-to-16-teams-its-time-to-work-your-b1g-quads

The idea is to start with 4 pods, or his word, quads with 4 teams each. There's the typical in-pod game across the board, a cross-pod rivalry game, and a few extra to get to 8 conference games. Then, the 9th game is a semi-final that leads into the conference final. Other non-pod winners play each other as well.

A novel concept that I don't think I've seen elsewhere.

Bob_Greer 8 years, 2 months ago

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the great reporting and insights. You've had the most current and comprehensive coverage of the entire realignment process.

Keep up the great work!

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

The longer the UT/P12 talks go on, the more likelihood the B12 remains. It doesn't take weeks or a week to put this together if both parties want it. All involved have armies of lawyers and number crunchers who can analyze any deal w/in hours. Plus, it's not as though they haven't been looking at this for some time.

UT is stalling for time. No matter what it says (remember that Dodds announced the death of the B12 last year to the UT Athletic Department) UT knows that moving to the P12 means going from being the "Joneses" to being the Clampetts. Except that Jed had a lot more sway at the Commerce Bank of Beverly Hills, than UT will ever have in the P16. I'm pretty sure that 12 votes beats 4 every single time.

This sums up the attitude of many in the P12 about OU and UT http://bleacherreport.com/articles/855269-texas-longhorns-and-oklahoma-sooners-need-not-apply-for-membership-in-the-pac12 If the southern 4 come to the P12, it's not going to lead the news in CA. It might not even lead the sports report. So Wilner is dead on when he says that the P12 isn't falling all over itself to get UT.

My guess is that UT is still talking to the ACC about parking its Olympic sports there (maybe in conjunction w/ND as well).

For many of these reasons, I'm also guessing that OU isn't as gung-ho to go to the P12 as it is putting out. All OU has to do is wait to see how many concessions UT is willing to make to get to the P12 and then essentially offer a slightly better deal to UT for them both to remain in the B12.

Laurence Cooley 8 years, 2 months ago

i think oklahoma is all-in with the pac12 move. and i think okie state is just hanging on for the ride.

this pac12 situation is pretty humbling for texas. this is the first time in decades that texas is not being catered to and i think it may have hurt their feelings. i say good. i dont like texas' arrogance.

and if tech goes to the sec (which is something that i have heard at all, but once again, nobody heard anything about the pitt and syracuse move) then the pac12 (if they expand to 16) is the perfect landing spot for us.

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

With Rutgers going for ACC, will Big go for any ACC teams such as Virginia, Maryland? Don't see that. If the Big is going to expand to 14 it could be ND and MU but I think that ND will not join a conference. It is almost a theological matter to them. I think that the odds are extremely favorable for KU to get into the Big when it moves to 14. If it goes to 16 I would have to say we are a shoe-in. Because of what is going on in the east I put our chances at over 50% of going to the Big, probably more like 75% if, if they expand.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

It would be nice to have an offer on the table from the PAC, to encourage the B1G act swiftly.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

ND doesn't ever have to join a conference. ND will always play MI, MSU, Purdue, Navy, and USC. Those rivalries aren't going away. ND will also start playing BYU and UT. ND also regularly plays Stanford and Boston College. Mix in another service academy and a few others and you've got a decent schedule. ND can park its olympic sports with a conference of the remaining non-FB BE schools.

Unfortunately for KU, the B10's pursuit of ND will hinder expansion.

Billy Blanks 8 years, 2 months ago

That is true as long as the current BCS/bowl system is in place.

If 4 super conferences create their own national championship playoff that would probably force ND hand. If they did not join one of the 4 they would be left out of the top tier conferences, I don't think their ego could take that, ditto for UT.

LAJayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

If we end up in the Big 10, I will shut my laptop, get in my car, drive to Burbank, get on a plane, fly to MCI, rent a car, drive to Lawrence, knock on Zenger's door, and place my lips firmly on his backside.

That would be ridiculous if that happened.

But I really don't think it will.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

I think he'd prefer a check written to KU.

LAJayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Well, if he wants to go the easy, non-awkward route, sure.... :-)

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

It sounds as if the PAC and B1G doors have cracked back open! Even possibly the Big 12 staying together.

But, if things go the other way, how about a reformed Big 16 that looks like this?

Great Plains Division

KU MU KSU ISU Baylor TCU Louisville Cincinnati

(Alternates: SMU, Tulsa, Houston, Rice, ???)

Mountain West Division

Air Force Boise State BYU Colorado State New Mexico San Diego State UNLV Wyoming

(Alternates: Utah State, New Mexico State, UTEP, ???)

And the FB championship game and BB tournament alternate between KC and Denver (one in each city, then swap the next year).

What would revenue look like? Worse than now, but how bad?

sm5561 8 years, 2 months ago

I tend to think going east is better for basketball. What about this alignment (12 football schools, 18 basketball schools). A little weaker in football conference than merging with MWC, but much stronger in BB in my opinion.

West Baylor Iowa State Kansas Kansas State TCU Houston

East Cincinnati Louisville South Florida East Carolina Memphis UCF

Non-Football Schools: DePaul Marquette Georgetown Seton Hall St. John's Villanova

(I'm assuming MU goes elsewhere...)

Disclaimer - I present this only as a plan B in case KU doesn't get into a B1G, ACC, Pac.

BoiseHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Hey Matt ... someone on another KU board is saying that a New Orleans radio station is talking about KU to the SEC. This seems HIGHLY unlikely to me but have you heard anything at all indicating that the SEC is even a little interested in KU or vice versa?

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

Think about it. If the SEC wants to get to 16 how do they do it? Assume the ACC schools are off the table (they agreed to higher exit fees last week). Well, West Virginia is an easy 14th school.

The SEC has indicated it wants to expand to states outside its current footprint. Missouri is a no brainer. How do you get to 16? KU would have to be considered.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

I thought about this. I think it is a dark horse.

They are already in Florida.

They are already in Kentucky.

I assume they steal West Virginia.

I assumed UT/TT/OU/OSU are in the Pac-69.

To me, picking up Mizzou and KU is a far better option than saturating Kentucky or dealing with stealing ACC teams.

KU would basically be in the same situation they are in now. A conference that is football heavy with a handful of teams that are basketball stout.

Not saying it is likely, but I am saying it is a possibility.

Same logic that works for the Big 10 is also at play with the SEC.

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

Mangino: I'm not a Civil War nut, but I have lived in the South, Mid-Atlantic States, East Coast, West Coast as well as Kansas and have followed sports wherever I've lived including Guam!. Just some observations:

In the BigTen, how many Southern-Border States- - - -None In the SEC, how many "Northern States"- - - -None In the PAC12 how many Southern-Border States - - - None as of yet In the BigEast how many Southern-Border States- - - None unless UWV and USF In the Original ACC how may Northern States - - -None, all Southen/Border States, though have added Northern Teams: BC, Pitt and Syra.lately

What do you think the likelihood of Kansas to SEC, I'd bet on Sherman in Ga!. What about Missouri to B1G, I'd bet on Lee at Gettysburg!

Also, how many inter-conference games do you see scheduled between these groups, not many until fairly recently.

FlintHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

blindrabbit, plz see my post above re 00's uniformed statement about the "Civil War." You just can't disagree with this guy or try to inform him. You may have noticed, he attacks the messenger.

And we must keep in mind that this is guy who says he will no longer be a KU fan if we don't end up in a conference that's prestigious enough for him. That statement makes me wonder if he's really a Jayhawk........

Jason Montgomery 8 years, 2 months ago

This is becoming as embarrassing to Kansas as Victor Ortiz's performance

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

Here is the situation: The ACC new they needed to expand so they added their 2 teams, which would assure the demise of the Big XII (no Pitt, no additional teams to swoop up). The ACC nows says it is fine with 14, but everyone knows it is going to 16. The prize is UT and they will add the second team (Most likely KU), but if they can't get UT, they will go after Rutgers/UConn.

The PAC12 wants UT as well, and would also go for OU, but there are questions about the other two teams. If the PAC12 has to take the younger sisters they will, but they don't want to. They would much prefer KU/MU.

The SEC is sitting back, they will eventually go to 16, but aren't going to be the agresser, they already have Baylor threatening lawsuits. SEC wants more locations and West Virginia is all but known as the 14. They would like to pick up OU, but they might settle for OSU (if OSU doesn't get into the PAC). Don't be surprised if they go for Cincy and Missouri. They have to wait until the Big XII dissolves before they agree to "not" Poach" anymore of the Big XII.

The Big Ten probably the most powerful of all of the conferences right now, but have lost some of their driver's seat. They were holding off until the dominos started to fall, but were probably a little surprised about the Pittsburgh/Syracuse deal. However, they aren't going to react just because, but they have their choices. Notre Dame is the only reason they go for expansion. If they get them, they will add one team for sure, but they probably will go to 16 just because of the POD system. The thing about it, is they know that the KU and MU will probably be available whenever, they can also have a structured deal with KU/MU over the next 2-3 years without any real repurcussions. At that point in time ND's contract will be ready for renegotiations and the 27 months for a Big East team is available.

KU still has a bunch of options it just is waiting for the dominos to fall.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

If the SEC wants to go to 16, I'm not sure why KU wouldn't be considered, especially over Cincinnati.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

Agree, but I think there is a good chance KU would be gone before the SEC came calling; however, I could see now where UK (yes Kentucky) just saw what the ACC did, and is raising a little (very little) noise about getting some additional competition into the conference for Basketball. The money is in football, but basketball is revenue generating as well.

Good point.

Robert Brock 8 years, 2 months ago

SEC? The Jayhawks cannot keep up with the incredible cheating that SEC schools are guilty of. And, culturally, can you imagine dealing with the Stars and Bars of Mississippi and Alabama? Drop the Freestate icons and go Slave? No thanks!

dmku25 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt,

If the scenario of combining the left overs of the Big East with the Big 12 leftovers comes true would they still retain AQ status? Would you see them then expanding to g add schools like BYU,Central Florida, Memphis, Temple, Navy and Air Force?

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

My name isn't Matt, but I'm not sure if it matters if it goes to the Power16 superconferences. The BCS and therefore the AQ will go away.

The whole idea about the AQ is to get into one of the BCS games, but with the SuperConferences the whole idea is to get to a playoff system, and in short, the leftovers would not be part of that playoff system.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Unless the leftover champs are higher ranked than one or more of the others? E.g., if MU went 12-0, but in the Big 12+, I think they'd make the playoff over a 9-3 ACC champ.

tman1991 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt "I'm sure this is just Bohls being speculative and covering all bases here, but it could be a sign that the roadblocks for UT to the Big 12 are substantial. "

I'm sure you meant Pac 12?

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

Indeed I did. Fixed now. Thanks for the catch. I'm kind of surprised that's the first time that's happened. :-)

Richard Payton 8 years, 2 months ago

Would the Big 12 expand if OU & TX agreed to remain in the Big 12?

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

Yes. At least to 10. More likely to 12. And maybe even beyond that.

Remember, stability is the key for everyone here (well, that and $$$), so if the league survives they'll do whatever they need to do to become the most stable they can.

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

I am live in the PAC country so though it's probably old news now but still early on the west coast. A lot of longhorn fans are quoting and following this article. It looks like PAC is playing hard ball with UT and maybe Kansas still has a chance: http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2011/09/19/pac-12-expansion-the-latest-on-texas-revenue-sharing-and-16-team-division-alignment/

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

No question. As many have reported, the Pac-12 does not NEED Texas. So they're gonna throw their best shot at 'em, lay out the best deal for the Pac-12 here and see if the Longhorns bite.

UT's a proud bunch of people. They're not gonna go if they're getting jerked around.

Believe it or not, Big 12 still very much alive.

LAJayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Texas is like Notre Dame Lite when it comes to ego....

John Myers 8 years, 2 months ago

They aren't proud. They might want to call it pride, but it's ego, greed and entitlement. Living in Austin as a Jayhawk is challenging at best.

jgkojak 8 years, 2 months ago

If the ACC is sensible and offers Rutgers and UConn, then the B10 really is boxed in and their only sensible move is to go after KS and MO.

Yes, KS and MO will always be available. But they have to think:

1) Do I want to leave KS available for the Pac?

2) Do I want to leave MO available for the SEC?

3) Do I want two of my teams playing in undesirable conference setups for even 1-2 seasons? Won't that devalue the product? Kind of like taking over the Tonight Show after Jay Leno instead of Johnny Carson.

A possible order of events: Tex/OU foursome go to the PAC to get to 16 SEC grabs WV ACC grabs UConn/Rutgers to get to 16 SEC says they want to be at 16, start hinting around at Mizzou and TCU (they'd like a 2nd Texas team) B10 grabs Mizzou/Kansas to get to 14 B10 starts talks with Iowa State and a raided school (Vanderbilt is an AAU school)

An ideal series of events: Kansas ends up in the B10 with Mizzou, Texas and Notre Dame

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

Yep, the scramble in the east has put the Big into the position of It's Now or Never. They could very well lose MU if SEC comes calling. Could lose KU too. Question is will they go on the offensive for Maryland, Virginia? Will they make overtures to ACC members? That is the question of the day. If they will not it leaves us as a favorite to get an invite. The second issue is whether they really want to expand. It is not like they have to. They could stand pat for a very long time.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't think the B1G has significant cultural ties to the east or specific ACC schools such as Maryland. And since they'd be hit with that big exit fee, and ill-will from the ACC, it is much more likely that they'd go for readily available teams. So the KU/MU pair is a natural cultural, geographical fit. And hopefully ISU or KSU, or both if ND refuses yet again.

cmack2222 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt you are the man....thank you so much for your hard work on this. I start my day looking for your update....and refresh often.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

Appreciate it. Glad you're finding the blog helpful. Thanks for reading!

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt- comment on the plausibility of the following:
1) OU and UT decide they really want to keep the Big 12 alive.
2) UT decides to makes some concessions on the LHN believing they would rather have power and influence in the BIg 12 instead of an equal partnership in the Pac 12 3) Big East remaining schools are now interested in moving. 4) Big 12 picks up Louisville, Cincinnati and BYU to get back to 12 schools. I imagine that TCU is also an option or the conference could add South Florida to get to 14.

While Louisville, Cincinnati and BYU don't make up for the loss of CU. NU and A&M, they do add some new markets and a national program in BYU. Georgraphically, Louisville and Cincinnati are not too far away. I think BYU comes close to replacing A&M and perhaps Louisville comes close to replacing CU.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

If the Big 12 survives — again, IF — then it's likely going to go down in a manner similar to what you just laid out.

Notre Dame will not join the Big 12. But if UConn and Rutgers bolt for the ACC then the remaining Big East football schools will definitely be looking for a good place to land. Big 12 as good as any at that point.

Pretty sure that TCU is a longshot. While they seem like a good fit in many ways, Texas doesn't want them in and the rest of the Big 12 (schools like Kansas, K-State, Iowa State and Mizzou, who mine Texas for talent) doesn't want to compete with another Texas school in recruiting.

sm5561 8 years, 2 months ago

IF it goes down like that, how likely is that to last? Aren't we just going to have constant rumors about Big12 teams leaving until the SEC and Pac get to 16? We can't do this every year.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

I see the concern and it all depends on what the aftermath is.

New leadership and new bylaws would certainly become necessary for the Big 12 to avoid having this embarrassing and trying scenario unfold every year.

SEC can easily get to 16 w/o Big 12 schools.

Pac, if they don't win this time, may just move on and get to 16 via a different route. 0-for-2 in negotiations with Texas would likely leave a sour taste.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

In addition to the 12 you mentioned, what about picking up BB-only schools from the BE like G'Town, Seton Hall, Villanova and for olympic spots only - ND? As long as ND can park its olympic sports, the B10 will be less likely to expand.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Interesting tweet about TT. Are they setting the school fans up for the possibility that the P12 doesn't want them? I can only imagine the looks among the P12 about going to Lubbock.

If the P12 is playing the 'we don't want TT' card, Get On the Horn to Scott - Now! Say, "We will immediately apply for membership if it will be accepted. Once a member of the Pac, we will always vote with the original Pac. As a matter of fact, Stanford can have our proxy right now."

KU leaving the B12 would kill the confernce for sure and force UT into the Pac on the P12's terms. This should have been the play last year.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

If OU / OSU apply I can see that scenario unfolding. UT would be forced to make a decision .... probably go independant . If this plays out. KU in PAC12 w/ little brother.

LAJayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt,

I know Texas going independent is their last choice. What is a scenario where that could happen, though? Does it all come down to them not willing to alter TLN? Gotta think they would negotiate the network to make it work (e.g. Make it a regional network with another school for PAC), meaning independence has probably a zero probability in my mind. Curious how you feel....

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

Saw a report that said the Texas to the ACC rumor was for all sports except football... Interesting.

If UT and the Pac-12 continue to butt heads on TLN or whatever else, the Pac-12 could swoop up KU and K-State or KU and Mizzou.

If OU, OSU, KU and K-State go west and Missouri and A&M go SEC, Texas would only have two choices remaining. Big 12 would no longer be viable so UT would have to push hard for Big Ten or go Independent.

My guess is Big Ten would work at that point. Just don't see Indy being in the cards for Texas...

Phoggin_Loud 8 years, 2 months ago

Not enough is emphasis is being placed on hoops. Every game is an advertisement & they need to advertise in the winter too. Conferences know the KU "brand" would be on tv every game.

Last time I checked, there are around 40 hoops games/season compared to 13 football games. 40 hoops games = 80 hours of event time compared to 13 football games = 39 hours of event time.

I understand stadium size & passion are different for each, but it should not be over-looked...and I don't believe it will be. KU will find a great place to land if the Big XII does indeed fold.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

You have to throw Indiana above Duke...at least based on tradition.

But your point is well taken.

Phoggin_Loud 8 years, 2 months ago

If Indiana is above Duke in hoops, then Yale is above Notre Dame in football...at least based on tradition.

Jayhawk444 8 years, 2 months ago

Nope. Indiana is WAY above Duke in hoops tradition. You must be young.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

Correction: baseball is just something until FB starts. Baseball sux.

Phoggin_Loud 8 years, 2 months ago

I understand the strength of football, but don't trivialize basketball. It's not as "un-watched" as you believe.

Please don't respond with "well, in the Big East..." There are more t.v.'s outside of the Big East than inside of it.

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt, while i am an avid PAC12 guy and I wholly support KU to PAC mostly because of its AAU status and perhaps to a lesser degree its basketball tradition (nice to form a UCLA/Arizona/Kansas/Washington four-some power BB in the PAC). However, contrary to what you believe, PAC will accept OU and OSU if they petition according to Wilner, with or without UT. If that happens, Big10 is DEAD! but it could be good news to KU because if UT stalls too much longer, Larry will just invite KU and MU.

Steve Brown 8 years, 2 months ago

anyone recall a couple weeks ago a plane went from Austin to Norman in a 'reported' effort to keep the Big 12 intact. More likely the agenda was: 1. don't leave us here and take a secret SEC bid like ATM did, wait until we finalize a PAC package. It will include your Stillwater Cowboys and be better for both of us. 2. limit legal liabilities and exposure of conference implosion. 3. whisper a fake ACC offer so OU doens't know UT is stranded and dependant.

you could envison a yr. ago ATM & UT offered a SEC spot but UT couldn't take the considitions of equality. Convinced ATM to pass. Now ATM calls SEC says, "we screwed up, can we still get in?" Yes, can you bring Sooners. or for fun, at least whisper to UT that you will bring Sooners. That would put Longhorns panties in a bind, all three Aggies, Cornhuskers, Sooners, all depart the Big Beef conference. Hence, get the plane ready With my take that blowing up the Big 12 makes no sense, least of all to UT, it just seems most of this story is under wraps we may never know. We all have different takes and my money says Bevo is the fox in the henhouse, so my prayer, keep B12 alive but as equals at a roundtable, yet if the B12 is doomed, is that Sooners get a lifeboat and it doesn't partner the bully. Rice, SMU, TCU, Houston, Baylor, I'm starting to feel like one of those Elizabeth Taylor husbands.

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

Talk about a shot in the dark, but I guess all is fair game here! Not a big K-State fan but the fact that they may be (eventually) getting the NBAF facility if Plum Island closes might bode well for a PAC12 affiliation. The conference connection to the agricultural interests out West might be a trump card. So, OU, OSU, KU and KSU to PAC12! Texas A&M to SEC. That leaves Missouri to pursue B1G or SEC, TT to SEC, Baylor to work up a league with SMU, TCU, Rice, Houston, Tulsa, and a couple of Lousiana/Arkansas/New Mexico/Colorado St teams. Longhorn can do whatever, as long as we're not involved, they are poison!

2002 8 years, 2 months ago

The B1G is boring in football, pretty much meaningless in basketball and its old. That seems to be the worst of all solutions.

The Pac # or the ACC could OK. The Pac #, with WSU, ASU, Utah, OSU and CU has little to complain about if considering any of the existing Big 12 schools. As much as I hate KSU and MU, neither is poorer it quality than any of those schools in sports of academics.

rockemchalkemrobots 8 years, 2 months ago

Agree to a certain extent, but they also have some major advantages:

  1. They are better academically.
  2. They are less likely to overextend themselves because they are looking at non-financial factors.
  3. They share revenue equally.
  4. The Big Ten Network is a top-notch property that would allow greater exposure in all sports.
  5. Geographic proximity, as compared to other options.

A few downsides:

  1. Might negatively impact recruiting that we don't have any systematic presence in Texas.
  2. Big Ten basketball is ugly!

David Atchley 8 years, 2 months ago

Quotes from UT Coach Mack Brown at the 12 oclock press conference today...

."UT wants to stay in Big 12, wants to stay because it's a regional conference, players' families and coaches have a better chance to see them play. Realignment will not have a big impact on recruiting. I am more concerned about the players and their families.

Need to make sure the players and the high school coaches are always factored into the equation. For players to have to travel all the way across the country is a bigger burden on them. Right now, with regional games, parents can travel to watch their kids play.

Realignment changes things as far as Texas football culture. Traditional games in Texas and other states are going away. I'm afraid some of the young guys wont' have the same passion if games/conferences keep getting changed.

With alignment, better worry about players, coaches and the fans too. Lot of people smarter than me, looking at realignment but he hopes, fans, players and high school coaches are a huge consideration."

Laurence Cooley 8 years, 2 months ago

i dont get it.

when texas has all the cards, none of the coaches say anything. but when they dont have any ground to stand on, they play the good guy card. ridiculous.

B60 8 years, 2 months ago

The Pac12 would be awful. Basketball games starting at 10pm and the whole recruiting process for BB has to be changed. NY and east coast players won't play in a Pacific time zone league. East Coast press doesn't pay any attention to the West Coast. I say retool the Big East and the remaining B 12 schools and work to make it strong.

pgittemeier09 8 years, 2 months ago

ha ya and NY and east coast players want to play at smu rice houston and byu instead...yes cuz if im a five star recruit from NY and sean miller comes a callin ill yes in a heartbeat, Why? cuz west coast will still get more coverage then ku playing the little sisters of the poor or whatever the OSU president called them

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt- Continuing the discussion on the Big 12 picking up Cincinnati, Louisville and BYU to get back to 12. Doesn't the ACC's new solidarity make conferences think twice about poaching teams? I have to assume that by upping the exit fees, the ACC members signaled that they do not want to move. The SEC has indicated they would add members from new states. If the ACC schools are off the board, there are not alot of new states to pick from. I don't think MU wants to go to the SEC. The SEC may take West Virginia and hold at 14. The Big 10 does not seem to want to expand. They can continue to hold out for ND. And if the OU and UT rebuff the Pac 12 a second time, I doubt you would see them expand. If UT decides to play nice with the other members of the conference, there could be stability.

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

Longhorn message boards are full of people worried about a OU?OSU?KU/KSU or MU combo without Texas. Evidently their fan base don't think LHN as a deal breaker is not good for them either. As for KU, I am a little worried about the KSU tie-in. Don't two schools share the same board? While OSU might be considered favorably when it comes to academics, at least OSU has a very good Olympic program (behind UT only in the Big12?) which all PAC12 schools are very keen on. What if it comes down to KU/KSU/MU and KSU be the deal breaker? I don't have anything against KSU, just thinking of scenarios.

NH_JHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I find it somewhat amusing that ESPN journalists can espouse their "what a shame" comments about how the B12's demise is imminent, considering it's ESPN that helped create and also has a major financial stake in the LHN. Funny how Andy Katz doesn't touch that little nugget in his article. Not that Andy Katz can't feel that way personally, but it's his employer that is squarely in the center of helping create a big part of this mess in the B12 and also perpetuates the exact same monopolistic, greedy, arrogant attitude that Bevo does. They're perfect partners I'd say.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years, 2 months ago

Pac just needs to make a decision on the OU, OSU, UT and vote--none of this "it might take weeks to decide". The longer they take, the greater chance OU and UT get in. The more doors are shut for UT and OU, the better for us.

Billy Blanks 8 years, 2 months ago

If you are talking about the week(s) Kirk Bohls suggested it might take, he said it might take that long to negotiate the deal (LHN, TT, etc).

Unfortunately we may have to sit in a holding pattern for some time before we have any options. Most likely we will not have any offers until more dominoes fall.

On a positive note IF 16 is the magic number for all, I like our chances.

Eric Dawson 8 years, 2 months ago

Great article and analysis jsut published by Nate Silver on "The Geography of College Football Fans (and Realignment Chaos)" at http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

Salient points from his analysis:

KU is #40 in terms of aggregate national fan base with768K

KU would deliver almost 50% more fan market to the Pac1# than CU does and TWICE what Utah does. In fact, if KU was in the Pac1# today, only USC, UCLA and Cal would rank higher in this analysis!

Silver writes: "The only plausible additions that would allow the Big Ten to improve upon its average of about 1.5 million fans per team are Notre Dame (2.3 million fans) and Texas (also 2.3 million). But good luck adding those schools.

Missouri, with 1.1 million fans — about as many as Nebraska — wouldn’t be far from the league average. Kansas (0.8 million) would be more of a stretch from a football standpoint but could bring in substantial college basketball revenues." [end quote]

Also note that if the Big 10 added KU, it would rank ahead of Purdue, Indiana and Northwestern! And MU would be ahead of them and Illinois and Minnesota!

As for KSU, ISU and BU, Silver writes: "If the Big 12 were to collapse, Iowa State, Kansas State and Baylor might have trouble latching on elsewhere: their fan bases each rank outside the top 50 nationally."

Jonathan Kealing 8 years, 2 months ago

Here's an addendum to the aforementioned article by Nate Silver, who's freaking nails when it comes to sports and politics stats. He was talking about how the passion of fans in Alabama or Nebraska, as measured by Google search volume, influenced the rankings. Well, here's the Google Insights for search report on search volume for college basketball:

http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=college%20basketball&geo=US&cmpt=q

According to Google, the No. 1 state for searching on "college basketball" is Kentucky. Kentucky is a 100 in basketball, whereas Alabama is a 100 in football. Coming in second in basketball is Kansas with a score of 90, which compares to Nebraska at No. 2 with a score of 71.

Interesting, North Carolina is No. 3 in basketball with a score of 60, while South Carolina is No. 3 in football with a score of 63.

Anyway, we all know that football is driving this realignment bus, but it should make Kansas fans feel slightly better in that they're the sixth largest fan base when measured through the lens of football. Wonder where they'd rank if measured with an eye on basketball.

doctorWho 8 years, 2 months ago

Hopefully the statisticians at the TV networks have similar stats and they have been on the horn to the powers that be at the PAC1? and B1G to let them know there is some value other than wheat on the plains of Kansas . . .

Those numbers speak loudly to why KU shouldn't be left for leftovers . . .

I just hope someone is listening.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't think most of the economic "experts" in the deciding chairs can read. They took those positions for the political clout.

But good find, nonetheless.

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

I feel pretty good about PAC or BIG. One will happen. I hope that we don't go through another episode of Saving the Big (Ha, Ha) 12. KSU, ISU and Baylor are big question marks. Actually think KSU going to Mountain West would not be a bad move. They could rule that conference. I don't think it would hurt their recruiting as much as it would ours. I feel bad for them but don't want to stay with this conference one more year. I wouldn't trust anyone after this.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt, what are you having for dinner tonight?

Just thought I'd throw in a rational question amongst all this hysteria. )

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

With as fast as the news comes in and changes with this thing, your question might be as difficult as any I've faced. Sometimes, there's just not time to eat. :-)

James McGuire 8 years, 2 months ago

Your question made me think of all the places I miss eating at in Lawrence - Biemers BBQ, Panda Garden, among many others. Maybe some day there will be good BBQ and sesame chicken in Montana.

Joseph Kuebel 8 years, 2 months ago

Ahhhh ya, Zen Zero or if in a Pandaless Express type mood: Peking Taste. Definitely miss Pepperjax, and getting the free state jugs filled with some of the freshest most delicious brew you can find... Not to mention the party school rankings, friends, and girls oh the KU and Lawrence ladies! God, I miss those days... Bball and football games.

Don't destroy this slice of heaven!! Get us in a top conference and keep this town alive!!

DevilHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt,

Regarding the NYT blog piece: Any thoughts on what the map looks like for the college basketball landscape? I'm curious how the two actually compare when accounting for the types of factors that the NYT piece attempted to account for.

Jonathan Kealing 8 years, 2 months ago

Devil--

I tried to take a slight crack at that in a comment I just posted. If I find myself with a LOT of spare time tonight or tomorrow, I'll try and do some more work, but Nate's got a big advantage on me, already having a lot of the data he needed to plug into his formula:

http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2011/sep/19/realignment-today-947-am-pac-12-obstacle/#c1755555

Cheers!

DevilHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I saw that just after I posted. It's interesting.

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

B60: Basketball rearing it's head again; to think other than football is misleading. Whatever ultimately happens as far as realignment for KU is concerned (assuming we are still in the Big's), KUAD needs to get with the "Football Program"; and if it means a slightly lesser role for BB, so be it. Other sports need to be ratcheted-up as well; remember KU was a major Track and Field power in the 50's-60's, would be a plus in PAC12.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I can only look at stats for so long before I want to shove an icepick through my head. That happens about 78.4 % of the time.

One stat I did not agree with in that article was the one that stated that there were 5 times as many football fans in Alabama as there were in New York, which reads as follows:

"For instance, according to Google Insights for Search, the term “college football” is searched for about 5 times as often in Birmingham, Alabama as it is in New York City, relative to overall search traffic.

In other words, on a per-capita basis, there are probably about 5 times as many football fans in Birmingham as there are in New York. So although the New York media market is about 10 times larger, it has fewer than twice as many college football fans as Birmingham."

In my feeble little mind, that just says that 5 times more people "googled" about football in Alabama. Maybe the New Yorkers already knew what they need to know and didn't have to google. I don't believe you can say there are 5 times as many fans somewhere just because they googled more.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

It has always been said that the larger the city the more likely they will be professional team followers rather than college. Rural = college. The stats he is using reflect that. I think the one exception is College football in LA (that I can think of), but look at basketball, clearly the Lakers/Clippers are more popular than USC/UCLA BB. Look at NY, name a football team Giants/Jets. When you think of Chicago...the Bears. When you go to Oklahoma...the Sooners. I just find it interesting.

I don't think the guy was speaking in absolutes, but was giving a better judgement on how to evaluate conference realignment, rather than tradition and location.

I thought it was pretty informative, and actually made me think KU is better off than I though last night.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

jhawkrulz - thanks for the reply. I get what you're saying and honestly I kind of overlooked the fact that they were talking about "college" football. Like I said, the whole stats process kind of numbs my mind.

And I also agree that KU seems to be better off now than we first thought.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

Actually, LA is the perfect example. They have no pro football team, so they still love college football. There is no other city in California that you can say that.

Actually, I cannot think of one American city where the pro football team is second class to their college football counterparts. Not even in the South. Can you? Miami maybe in the eighties, but not all-time. Hmm, any thoughts?

Granted, I don't believe it is 5-to-1, but it do buy that rural areas pay far more attention to athletics overall than metro areas.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

That NYT piece was great. I hope that KU admin had some data like that compiled so it could pitch other conferences.

William Weissbeck 8 years, 2 months ago

It may not make a difference. The math to get to 64 is working against us. There just aren't enough slots. Where are the BCS bowls on this? Do they really want BIG 10 playing SEC, ACC in every bowl game? Is there really a TV market for that?

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt,

Any evidence that OU and Texas Boards are on conference call? Does that require a public notice?

Jonathan Kealing 8 years, 2 months ago

If you're in a meeting to discuss matter protected by attorney-client privilege, which I believe is the justification they gave, you can't involve an outside party that is not covered by the same privilege. Therefore, if UT or OU had a conference call, the attorney client privilege, the privilege would be invalid because of the presence of a third party. So, most likely, the answer is they were not conference calling. Plus, OU's not too happy with Texas right now.

William Weissbeck 8 years, 2 months ago

Is it just me, or do you all get the feeling that just like loosing that recruit to UCONN who only "recruited" him for 5 days, that UCONN is outflanking us by getting to the ACC and effectively exploding the Big East and reducing our options? I wonder what they told that recruit. ESPN must be wondering what Big Monday is going to look like - re-runs of the X-Games?

Dan Edwards 8 years, 2 months ago

OU Regents just voted unanimously to give Boren the authorization to act on re-alignment. Bit of an anti-climax, but that was the expected result of this meeting.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years, 2 months ago

4:12 update: yeah, no real shocker Boren gets to call the shots on a move. But OU still has to be ACCEPTED by Pac.. That's a huge unknown at this point if it happens.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

According to Jon Wilner, who has covered this thing better than anyone in Pac-12 country, OU and OSU will have the votes...

Texas is another question.

jayhawkboogeyman 8 years, 2 months ago

Why hasn't KU or Kansas Regents come out with any declaration like this? We are assuming that the current Kansas Regents won't tie KU to KSU, but no such decision has actually been made, per a quote from a new regent in a previous Tate update that indicated the Regents had not discussed this since the membership turnover.

How KU manages its way into a good position at this point is very hard to figure. I was cautiously hopeful til this point, but frankly the only positive news we've heard is rumors from local reporters. The national reports never mention Kansas, and the spots KU could fit in are closing up. Christ forbid we go SEC, and ACC is basically out, which leaves PAC or Big Ten, or some trash hole conference with no prestige and huge pay cuts.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

For a numbers man like me, the geography of college football piece was great. I wonder how many more fan KU would have had two years ago when were ranked and has won two consecutive bowl games. I bet the numbers would have approached 1 million. I think you can argue that despite the terrible product we put on the field, we still have a strong fan base. Once we see a little improvement, it will only get better.

Kentuckyhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

OK maybe I am stupid, but can someone answer me this. If this is all about football what the hell does UCONN bring to the ACC? BC already gives them the Boston market and their football team is on par with KU's.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

Which school has been to a BCS game more recently, Kansas or UConn?

Pbbut 8 years, 2 months ago

Who is this clown they call the president at UCLA? When did student-athlete welfare become part of the equation?

utahjayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I think (hope) the UCLA President is tipping his hand on how his institution will view the tagalongs - OSU and TTU - and their lack of academic firepower.

That statement may bode well for us.

DevilHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Sounds to me as though UCLA is saying: We might take Oklahoma. We'll probably take UT if they give up their demands If we expand, then we are expanding to 16 teams There is no way that we are adding Oklahoma State or Texas Tech There also is no way that we add K-State Oklahoma, if you want to join, then you should talk to UT and KU about going with you - and possibly also Mizzou.

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

Maybe just wishful thinking but that was my take too. I think it was a nice way of saying no package deals. Each applicant will stand on its own merits. Easy to say, right now, but if there is no OU without OSU are they going to hold to that...probably not. But being put into that position twice does make them more likely to stand on that, especially if they are eyeing KU and MU. God knows. Wake me when its over.

royaljayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

The talk of a Big East and Big XII merger among the remaining teams makes me want to barf!!! That merger has about as good a chance of being viable in the long term as a newly proposed merger between Enron and WorldCom!!!! No No No!!!!!!

David Atchley 8 years, 2 months ago

I understand that President Boren's motives are to make "Hillbilly Handfishin" a scholarship sport at OU.

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 2 months ago

More likely, his motive is to be closer to San Francisco...

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

Read this though all way through as this will take two posts to get through to see how KU gets into the B1G if the ACC and PAC plans don't work out.

Part 1 (Football)

Should the PAC or ACC plans fall through and KU is stuck in a Big 12/Big East hybrid conference, they have to make sure ND's olympic sports don't move to this conference in order to keep B1G as a viable option.

Let's assume that UConn and Rutgers join the ACC and that OU, Texas, OSU, and Tech do get into the PAC, and Missouri is the 14th SEC team leaving the Big East with Cincy, Louisvillie, USF, WVU, and TCU and the Big 12 with Baylor, ISU, KU, and KSU. That's 9 teams and could function as an AQ conference as there are 8 BCS appearances with a 5-3 record, but this is about getting into the B1G and this doesn't force their olympic sports to go anywhere. Going to 12 in football and 16 in basketball does significantly hurt ND's olympic sports and could force them to join the B1G and opens the door for KU to go as well. To get to 12 football teams, invite SMU, Houston, and UCF as adding those 3 eliminates any chance of C-USA stealing an AQ spot. USF gets a rival and a school within 1000 miles of them, and this conference gets a nice presence in Texas with 4 schools.

Put the conference headquarters in St. Louis which is a somewhat central location and get a commissioner like Beebe, but would bend to KU's wishes and allow KU to make a move to the B1G when that situation arises. If B1G plans fall through, immediately fire this commissioner and hire a real commissioner that can build and grow this conference.

As for the divisions in this 12 team set-up, I would go with an east/west split and have KU, KSU, Baylor, TCU, Houston, and SMU in the west and WVU, Cincy, UL, USF, UCF, and ISU in the east. This gives KU two games in Texas every year to keep a good profile their and a game in central Florida every other year to build their profile their. There's 3 ways to go with the conference championship game. 1st option would be to play it on campus, the second option would be to play it in a central location such as St. Louis if you want to play it indoors or in Nashville if outdoors is preferred, and the 3rd option would be to rotate between KC, Tampa Bay, Cincinnati, and either Houston/Dallas to have each region of the conference host the title game in a rotation.

Read below for the second part which is the more important piece of the puzzle, but the reason I put football first is because the basketball portion of this wouldn't happen until the football portion happens.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

Before ripping this idea, follow it all the way through by reading the second half of this process below which is the more important part as it describes the plan to try and leave Notre Dame's olympic sports in limbo forcing their hand to join the B1G.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

Should WVU go to the SEC instead of Missouri, split the divisions north/south with the Texas and Florida schools in the south and everyone else in the north. Doesn't change much as far as anything else goes other than making MU and KU a package to the B1G.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

You lost me, when the Big XII went to 4 teams, that dissolves the conference.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

Here's part 2 which is the more important part.

For basketball as I said, you have to go to 16 teams and done smartly could be the #2 basketball conference in the country. In order to do that, add Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, and St. John's. Doing this kills Big East basketball as an entity and is what forces ND to the Big 10 also opening the door for KU to join as well. In the mean time while KU waits for this to happen, a basketball conference that includes KU, Georgetown, Villanova, Louisville, and WVU (all have at least 1 Final Four in the last decade) along with KSU and Baylor who have Elite 8 appearances in the last 5 years as well and allows teams to play regularly in recruiting hotbeds such as D/FW, Houston, central Florida, DC, Philly, and New York is a conference that could realistically be considered the #2 basketball league in the country behind the ACC should the Big 10 decide to not expand and turn ND down for reason or they find another home for their olympic sports.

The pod system for this basketball conference would be an ideal use of a pod system. You play each team in your pod home/away and one game against everyone else for an 18 game conference slate and rotate the tournament between KC and New York. Pods would be KU, KSU, ISU, and Marquette in the NW pod, Baylor, Houston, SMU, and TCU in the SW pod, Cincy, UL, UCF, and USF in the SE pod, and Georgetown, Nova, SJU, and WVU in the NE pod.

For the overall health of KU athletics, this is probably option #4 or 5 behind the ACC, B1G, and PAC (these are clearly the 3 best options for KU if the Big 12 disbands, just a matter of preference which one is best and we already know most everyone's preference), and possibly behind a Big 12 with UT and OU still in it (at this point I'm not convinced that ends well for anybody) so by itself, this is either option 4 or 5, but could be the path to the B1G.

If basketball is your only concern (plenty on here have made that known), this may be the ideal situation for KU basketball as it gives KU a lot more east coast exposure for recruiting while allowing them to keep a presence in the very fertile Texas recruiting area.

Again, if doing this for a few years while ND is forced into the B1G also opening the door for KU to the B1G as well, this would be a suitable option to wait on. If ND finds another home for their olympic sports and never joins the B1G, although not the ideal situation for KU, isn't the doomsday scenario some have made it out to be and does keep KU basketball in a great conference with other elite programs.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

All of this means absolutely nothing if the PAC or ACC do decide to invite KU as those are far better options than trying to coerce ND and the B1G into taking KU in a few years because the PAC and ACC are immediate options and very good options for KU.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

WVU to the SEC instead of Missouri also has little impact on the basketball side as well. Just put MU in the pod with KU, KSU, and ISU, and slide Marquette over with it's Catholic school brethren of SJU, Georgetown, and Nova in the NE.

FLJHK 8 years, 2 months ago

Good work on this texashawk, and I think your general tenets are correct. I've been of the view all along that barring the survival of the Big 12, the Big 10 is by far the best option. I like the quality of the schools in the PAC, but it is a logistical nightmare. The ACC option was, in my view, nothing but a smokescreen from the get go.

The Big 12 - Big East hybrid you describe is in reality not a bad option, interim or otherwise. It's a very good B-Ball conference, and includes enough on the football side to likely maintain AQ status for at least some period of time. While we may experience a bit of a bruised ego by not being in one of the "Super-conferences" for awhile, the long term payout may be better, and if it eventually leads us to the Big 10, as it very well could, it's all that much better.

kujayhawkster 8 years, 2 months ago

Rumors have told us in recent days that West Virginia could be out the door to the SEC, as well as UConn and Rutgers jumping ship to the ACC. If those three did indeed leave, then:

If the OU and UT foursome leave the proposed merger would look like this (9): KU, K-State, Missouri, Iowa State, Baylor, Louisville, Cincinnati, TCU and South Florida.

If the foursome stays, it looks like this (13): OU, Texas, Okie State, Texas Tech, KU, K-State, Missouri, Iowa State, Baylor, Louisville, Cincinnati, TCU and South Florida.

This obviously leaves some sort of hole in the conference. Where would this Big East 12 Conference get its remaining schools?

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

How are people still reporting or speculating about a BigE + Big12 merger that includes...

West Virginia (going to SEC) Rutgers (going to ACC) UConn (going to ACC) OU (going to PAC) OSU (going to PAC) Texas (going to PAC) TTech (going to PAC)

Matt, you are dreaming (or drinking the Keegan coolaid). Take away these teams and this is Conf USA...

Cinci, Louisville, S Fla, TCU, K-State, Iowa State, Baylor, KU, Missouri.

MU not going to go to this either.

Bye Bye top hoops programs.

Get real folks.

tman1991 8 years, 2 months ago

If UT and OU are at odds.. How does the talks of them going to the same conf - Pac12 make sense??

Also I would think Colorado would be screaming about now..

The UT/OU marriage just is weird, considering OU seemed to create a mess when saying they wanted OUT.. now they want IN with UT??? huh??

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

Not a fan of a full merger. I say, if OU and UT stay, you get BYU and two of the best of the rest. I thought that would be Louisville and Cincinnati, but the NY article turned me off a bit on those schools. I truly believe that if UT and OU stay and the Big 12 gets to 12 members, the realignment momentum will shut down for the following reasons:

No one left to poach if the "new" Big 12 is stable. The SEC can take West Virginia to get to 14. There is no other attractive team if the ACC schools are as commited as they appear. We can assume that Rutgers and UCONN join the ACC.

The Big 10 does not want to expand and will hold out for Notre Dame. The Pac 12, if rebuffed by OU and UT, has no place to expand. They don't seem to want to expand anyway.

The odd teams out will be whichever Big East team is not taken by the "new" Big 12: that is, South Florida, TCU, Louisville and Cincinnati.

You end up with three 12 team conferences, one with 14 and one with 16 and two current BCS teams (if you include TCU) left out.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

I missed the NY article, what was the problem with Louisville and Cincinnati? Just academics or what?

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

Number of total fans. They were the bottom two schools in the Big East in the survey.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

Wow, somebody decided to pay that guy big bucks?

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

I can see a lot of holes in that Big 12/Big East merger. Namely, and it has been pointed out by numerous posters, that a handful of those schools will not be there.

I think the pod system has conferences believing that a sixteen team conference will work, so I don't think they fear it quite like they used to. Sixteen is certainly more of a sane number than say 13 (current SEC) or 14 (current ACC).

I pretty much consider Rutgers, UConn, and West Virginia to be temporary members of the Big East. As far as Louisville goes, I am not sure where they stand. After that, all bets are off. Louisville staying around? Missouri staying around? After them, Kansas staying around?

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

Powers has the authority to negotiate and create a plan, but UT regents still have to approve any final moves.

At OU, Boren has the whole enchilada.

selfishhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Okay, enough is enough!!! Our AD and President owe us a on-the-record statement that isn't a reaffirmation of our loyalty to a conference that is DEAD!! IF we are left with a few bad options, the students, alumni and fans should have some input before these incompetents make a move.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

What do you want him or her to say? "We're applying to the Big 10 or Pac 12?" What if we are not accepted. What would your response be if K-State said something like it was applying to the SEC to be the 14th school. They would be ridiculed.

I really think that until the conference is officially dead it makes no sense to say anything different than what is being said. The conference is not dead yet and appears to have a better shot at survival than it did 24 hours ago.

jayhawkintx73 8 years, 2 months ago

Well, Kansas had better make a good decision, and never put Texas on the schedule for any reason ever again, and use this to kick their ass up and down the court, and don't ever shake their hand. They destroyed this conference, for their own INTERESTS. SUE THE HELL OUT OF THEM BASTARDS!

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

If this conference survives again, it has no esteem. If we merge with the BigEast we have no esteem. These are lose, lose propositions. How absurd.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

If setup properly, a Big 12/Big East merger can lead to a B1G for KU.

Danny Hernandez 8 years, 2 months ago

Here is what I don't understand so please enlighten me.....OU is pizzed at UT because they have their own network so they want to leave AND UT goes as well with them...I thought OU just wanted to get away from UT and if so, then why not just force UT out of the Big12 or whatever it is called?

Kevin Randell 8 years, 2 months ago

I just watched here in Tulsa on Fox 23 OU President Boren speak. Basically when asked if he thought if Texas was to blame for all of this. His response basically was that OU wants to be in a conference where the revenue sharing is equal across the board. So I don't know if this is a last minute pressure tactic towards Texas, or if it's a "well...we don't want to leave, but we have to leave" comment. All I know is there is one heck of a poker game going on.

You know......a while back I had mentioned a Big East raid by the Big XII to make us the first super conference. Many of you all scoffed at me and said it wouldn't work. How does that idea look now? :)

royaljayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

It looks absolutely awful in every way imaginable that's how it looks right now!! The worst possible scenario for KU throughout this process would be to have to merge with teams from another dying conference. There will be 4 super conferences. A Big 12 Big East merger will not be one of the 4! Therefore the idea looks horrific!!

holbigmac 8 years, 2 months ago

 I'm concerned that KU is toast.  The radio in Lubbock is saying that UT, TTU, OU and OSU will go to the Pac 12.  If KU goes to the leftovers, then KU years as a big time college sports team are over.  KU has nothing in common with east coast universities and will quickly lose its following.  Basketball, our only sport, thanks to 50 years of mediocrity of football, will wilt with no one wanting to come to KU and play and you've got to ask yourself how long will Bill Self stick around!  KU will truly become a mid-major!
 Thanks to all you visionaries in Lawrence.  Maybe the TTU alum association will take me!

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

So I was thinking this earlier today...

The Big 12 is the NCAA conference version of Guns N' Roses.

They had it all; talent, great front man, great guitarist, great songs. But their career was killed by greed and narcissism.

To take it a step further; Axl Rose is Texas. There really is only one person that sounds like Axl Rose. There really is only one University of Texas-Austin. Axl was matched only in his lyrical creativity and songwriting by his narcissism and bipolar schizophrenia.

Oklahoma is Slash. Slash was a great performer, and for the longest time put up with the crap of Axl because he realized how well the band was doing. He was a guitarist that was a household name, something only a handful of rock guitarists can truly claim. Yes, there are a lot of good rock guitarists, but how many get to be asked by Michael Jackson to jam with them? How many get to be in South Park? This was Slash. When they say other schools are not by big enough cities to matter, OU is immune to that, they are Oklahoma and they play with Texas. Unfortunately, at some point, like Slash, their ego got big enough that they got fed up with the crap. And thus, we have....

Matt Sorum, the drummer that came in and saved the band for what was their last great two albums (I don't count Spaghetti Incident or Chinese Democracy as great); Use Your Illusion I and II, that's us. We were Matt Sorum. We stayed the course, felt like the Big 12 was better for everybody, ourselves included. We had something to offer and were willing to guarantee that those other members made their "fair shair" as they saw it, just so other members were not left homeless. We cared a lot about making good music, being an all-time band up there with the Beatles and Stones. We were Matt Sorum, and we got screwed.

Like Guns N' Roses, the Big 12 may dissolve, and every member of the conference will go their different courses. All will be thinking how "awesome" it is to be out from under the yoke of the Big 12, UT included. And then in ten years they might come to realize they had a conference that was able to compete in both major sports year in, year out.

We are Guns N' Roses, and we got screwed.

af13 8 years, 2 months ago

Can we be Izzy Stradlin instead? He was kind of the George Harrison of Gn'R; talented enough to write and sing some songs, but often overlooked.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

Yeah I'm cool with the Stradlin analogy.

Although with Sorum we had the look that we could knock out teeth at any moment, and was popular with the ladies. Always a plus!

But since we were a member from get-go, I'm cool with Izzy.

FlintHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I enjoyed that. Thank you. Although I have mixed feeling about Congressional involvement in "realignment" (what a misnomer!). It may just drag things out forever and ever. I like the guy's passion.

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

Longhorn fans just commenting on Chip Brown's interview in Austin. According to Brown, T Powers had full authroity from the BOR to act (he needs to explore Big 12 THEN to look elsewhere, but he does have authurity to act fully). He thinks a deal is coming soon.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt;

Has anybody asked Boren about the concessions that the Pac 12 has reportedly offered UT in regards to their network?

If he wants out of the Big 12 because of the LHN, and the Pac 12 is going to give them the same thing just with a few stipulations, how is that any better?

Also, regarding Texas Tech, how many votes do they need to get in? Because I can see Colorado voting "no" (out of spite and still trying to keep Texas out), and Stanford and Cal voting "no" out of academics for both Tech and OSU.

I have no hopes we get into the Pac 12, but I'm hoping when the SEC and Big 10 fire up expansions that we can get into a mix somewhere. This Big 12/Big East merger should just call themselves what it is; The Big Joke.

Which loser commish do we keep?

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

I can see it being a problem. Colorado is going to entertain voting "no" to anything Texas related. Stanford and Cal might vote "no" based on academics to either Tech or OSU.

Could be some insane stuff this week if that were to happen.

Still, aren't you pissed that it appears OU would put up with Texas concessions there but not in the Big 12? Are you feeling me?

utahjayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

nutz, the difference is that OU seeks stability and that's the main driver for moving to the PAC. That's what we'll never find in the Big XII again, even if it happens to rise from the ashes.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

The move by the UT BOR to limit Powers to negotiate an exit from the B12, but still come back for approval is a strong signal that UT is hesitant to go to P12. In essence, Powers will be like the car salesman who still has to ask the Sales Manager for approval. Powers spent hours with Scott on Sunday. The fact that Powers was not able to lay out a plan which the UT BOR would sign off on today is very telling.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

Well, ESPN is reporting that they did sign off on giving him full powers.

So we are getting conflicting reports.

Not that ESPN would ever be inaccurate, Alex Rodriguez was a Boston Red Sox for like three months, right?

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

From the Austin Statesman. "That means Powers has the authority to negotiate on Texas’ path —- and take any action along those lines.

Powers will work in consultation with a group of six people, including Regents chairman Gene Powell.

Any change in conference membership has to be submitted to the board to approve. Powers, however, wouldn’t need regents’ approval if he decides Texas should remain in the Big 12."

In other words, they didn't given him the authority the OU BOR gave to Boren, who can make the move immediately and unilaterally. They also appointed a committee/chaperon to work with Powers. Tells me UT BOR not sold on P12.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Now is the time to strike the decisive blow. Tell Scott that KU wants to be admitted to the P12. KU's departure would kill any chance for the B12 to survive, thus forcing OU/OSU to come along. Then the P12 could take UT on its own terms and w/o TT.

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree. KU should call Scott now. Btw, Chip Brown is saying Powers has all the authority he needs. So conflicting reporting indeed.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

I could be biased, but I'll go with Kirk Bohls here. Great reporter.

Could be a case of two people being told different things. Wouldn't surprise me one bit with this mess...

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Chip Brown is covering for Dodds to spin this. The UT BOR saddled Powers with babysitters and won't let him act unilaterally.

JayHawk_from_SWKS 8 years, 2 months ago

Perhaps Bohls talked to a regent while Brown talked to someone at UT? Then, it would be in UT's best interest to keep the required consultation of the B of R under wraps. If it is well known that a plan must be negotiated not only with the UT president, but also the B of R, the offer might be taken off the table all together. The fewer perceived steps in the negotiation, the better for UT.

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

Do the same to the BIG. Tell them each, They're the only one.

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 2 months ago

Don't you think we'd already be somewhere if we were wanted? To think we have the ability to just tell a conference we want in and that will make it happen seems naive at this point.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

You must have been reading my "columns" on this site. If he makes it a public invite, it can happen, and they wouldn't have to bring Tech. But I doubt the "I killed the Big 12" is something he wants as his label. Wish we would work it out, though.

utahjayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

EXACTLY!!!

The question is how can we develop a groundswell of support (campaign) for this idea and convince BGL of this action??!!

142466 8 years, 2 months ago

Agreed. KU administrators should have already done so.

KU has no business going to an eastern conference. Kansas is and always will be a western state. I just returned this evening to California, from a trip to NYC. My trip reaffirmed my opinion, 100%.

If we are unable to enter the Big 10 or the PAC, then our only choice is to somehow try to join others in creating a solid conference in the Mountain Time Zone, plus some Texas schools. I know that this a down-grade, short-term. However, in the long run (15 to 30 years), it will prove to be better than to have gotten lost in the jungle that is the northeast.

rockchalknation 8 years, 2 months ago

I find it truly amazing watching unversity presidents negotiate multi-billion dollar conference realignment-television packages that will end up creating unrealistic travel demands on 18-22 year olds. The student-athlete is going to be exploited even more than they are now and receive not a dime more for the millions in extra revenue they produce for the egotistical university presidents. Granted, a full ride scholarship is worth alot but the benefit/hour of service is going down drastically for the athlete while the payout/athlete increase for the schools is off the chart.

Stop the madness for a moment and look at what is being done to college athletics.

David Atchley 8 years, 2 months ago

Hmmmmmm.....the only thing that's going to make this a bigger mess...is your U.S. Government getting involved....stay tuned for that to happen....

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

Why do we need two powerless institutions flapping their arms and beating their chests while watching the-world-go-by-without-doing-anything involved in this?

Stephan123 8 years, 2 months ago

KU's most realistic "option" is wait for a eligible conference ask us to the prom. We have no power is this developing situation and can only hope we get a call.

Kevin Randell 8 years, 2 months ago

TULSA, Okla. -- Oklahoma regents voted Monday to give Bob Stoops a new contract that would keep him as the Sooners coach through 2018 and pay him $34.5 million over the next seven years.

I guess he will need to afford a condo in calli.....

David Atchley 8 years, 2 months ago

Didn't you see the movie "Titanic"....the ship sinks in the end...but not before the schools, with the significant footbal tradition and fan base, large stadiums and television markets are lowered in rescue boats safely into the water....

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

I would buy a call on KU's stock.

I firmly believe that KU KSU & MU have a contingent offer on the table from the Big Ten if OU leaves for the PAC12.

ND will be offered the last spot and if they do not accept ISU will be offered.

Book Mark It.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

Bought puts Friday on GLD 176 strike for 12/11 & 1/12 ..... maybe some real $$$$ today. Sold half today. Retirement is GOOD!!!!

I would buy an "at the $$$" call on KU.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

I hope you are correct.

And what if OU and UT kiss and make up?

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

Big 12 still in play with equality and long term agreements with penalties.

Joseph Kuebel 8 years, 2 months ago

ISU would be invited before KSU, that's not even an argument. As stated the B1G has all AAU institutions... With the exception of Nebraska.

They also had discussed adding KU in 1993, but didn't because academic prestige. Is hope that KU and MU would be the next in line to get there, but as far as KSU in front of IOWA ST? The B1G will add nobody before offering ISU and KSU, I'd bet $ on that.

Eric Dawson 8 years, 2 months ago

Can't underplay the importance of the AAU with the B1G.
NU was in the AAU when it got the B1G invitation. It was several months after NU accepted that the AAU voted NU out, apparently for failing to meet minimum AAU research levels. Don't know if NU would have got the invite if it had been kicked out of the AAU beforehand. NU is NU, but it's not Notre Dame with it's 2M+ CFB fan base.

JayBoi2011 8 years, 2 months ago

Big 10 would not want Iowa State for the same reason they don't want kansas state, and that is because the two bigger schools (Iowa and Kansas) have a ton to gain by being the only BCS schools in their state, and a ton to gain the Big 10. I don't see them taking two schools from Kansas, no matter what. Louisville is a better option than those two.

MDHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

This whole process is starting to get quite nauseating. The talk of us joining Big East leftovers is only making it worse. If KU is left out in the cold when the dust settles (which I don't think will happen, but uncertainty in this climate only builds), I would hate to be an OU, OSU, NU, CU, or Texas fan of any kind living in Lawrence. It would be a real blow to the city if KU were to diminish as an institution, and it's hard to truly predict the fallout from such an unprecedented turn of events.

FlintHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm glad somebody (@00) finally said this. My three major worries so far are recruitment during the uncertainty; impact on KU as an institution of higher learning (enrollment, research grants; and impact on the local, regional and state economies.

There are so many potentially severe consequences.

utahjayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Very true but don't try to sell that to those on this board that want to keep the current crap conference together with the likes of SMU and Boise St.

kesmithstl1 8 years, 2 months ago

Hearing Beebe everything is for the betterment of student athletes, is like your dad saying this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you!

David Atchley 8 years, 2 months ago

The reason OU gave Stoops the contract is he's been making noise ever since Tressel was fired at "The" Ohio State that if he didn't like where the realignment was headed, he could always do something else.....Kansas may want to follow suit and offer a similar incentive to Coach Self....

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Can't. KU doesn't know yet what their revenue will look like starting next year.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

Bill Self is signed through 2018. Didn't he get a 10 deal after the national championship?

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

I thought you were going to say Gill and I was thinking we were already just over 2 mm into a bad deal...just 8 mm to go.

Gordon Penny 8 years, 2 months ago

I gotta tell you, that survey of where there are the most college football fans is just dumb. Most of the people I know that are football fans don't search google for football sites; they already have a set of sites they visit, and that's it. People who google college football are probably not really fans at all.

Don Hortenstine 8 years, 2 months ago

What about kicking UT and their LHN out of the Big12 since they seem to be the root of the problem. Invite Nebraska and CU back. Bring back the Big 8.....

Ben Kane 8 years, 2 months ago

if a joining of the unwanteds from the big 12 and big east happens, i pray that weren't aren't still around to be a part of it.

only 3 viable options remain:
1. we go pac instead of TT 2. we go B1G 3. we worm into the ACC

anything else would be a disaster.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

"And what if OU and UT kiss and make up?" That's why KU does say anything or make a stupid move. Let's be real. I'm sure the Pac-12 is aware that we would be interested in joining if the Big 12 broke up. Right now, it hasn't. They are not interested in expanding unless they can get UT and/or OU. If they kiss and make up, the Pac-12 will not look to expand at all. They have made that point very clear.

royaljayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

B1G or bust for KU!!!! Don't even need pods because everything makes sense geographically. I think they may take ISU over KSU though because ISU, like MU, KU and ND are members of the AAU, which matters to the B1G. KSU is not..

Laurence Cooley 8 years, 2 months ago

nd is not an AAU member. the big ten just really wants them in the league.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

ND may be that good looking girl you have asked out and been turned down. She has now gone to seed (fat & ugly), you don't ask her out anymore and she turns into Fordum (sp) or St Mary of the Plains.

MDHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Just double checked, and the University of Nebraska is no longer an AAU member (I believe their membership was revoked recently?? Not sure on that).

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Hey SZ, you want to out-maneuver Dodds and be known as the baddest AD in the country? Call Scott NOW. If the UT BOR was gung-ho on the move, they would've given Powers full authority to do so. They didn't.

If KU leaves, the B12 dies. If the B12 dies, UT has to find a home. Independence is not an option. The SEC is not an option . W/o three other teams to form a western pod, the ACC is not an option for UT. The B10 is not an option with the LHN and TT. Bevo will be marrooned - like he was going to do to us. The only option will be for Bevo to surrender to Scott on terms favorable to the Pac.

The whole Pac Expansion is the brainchild of the Creative Artists Agency. The CAA, being a ruthless a Hollywood talent agency, would be proud of such a 'gutsy' move by KU.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm sure SZ has talked to Scott--as everyone else. But Pac isn't going to take Kansas a non-football school as bait for UT and OU. We don't factor into the football equation.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

If we learned anything from Colorado last year....if there are talks of the Big XII surviving, it just isn't worth it. Let's hope that we can move on to one of the other power conferences. My hope is the Big Ten, after reading that population sheet, I'm sold.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

Whenever I hear one of the Regents speak, I get nervous.

Pitthawk34 8 years, 2 months ago

I wish we had a spy to infiltrate the KU administration. I cant believe that the LJW would not have a rat lined up somewhere.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

The quote below from this article makes me feel better:

http://cjonline.com/sports/football/2011-09-19/big-12-regents-chairman-hoping-cooler-heads-prevail#.TnfbYRxUHR0

"Regents have become recognizable figures in the realignment drama now playing out in board rooms across the Big 12. In Kansas, the balance of power rests mostly with the university presidents, but McKechnie said the regents have worked closely with KU and K-State in the quest to save the Big 12."

Eric Dawson 8 years, 2 months ago

"In Kansas, the balance of power rests mostly with the university presidents"

Sweet music to my ears! That tells me that KU can go its own way if need be, and if BGL has the guts to stick to her initial statement that nothing ties KU to KState if KU has to go elsewhere without them.

If not, then what part of the "balance of power" lies with the Regents?

David Atchley 8 years, 2 months ago

It makes no sense to "not" have a Conference..or Mega/Super-Duper Conference in the Center of the Country...Economically as well as for fans and family to realistically still enjoy attending away games, and keep age-old rivalries intact. The growth for the last 10 years has been economically in Texas, not in California, AZ, Nevada...not on the Ohio, or Pennsylvania or New Jersey..and sure as hell not in Florida....

Every roster in the Big 12 is packed with football players recruited from the State of Texas. It seems to me...the fire alarm, knee-jerking, ego driven maniacal thoughts of East Coast and West Coast should be a "last resort." A "Southwest Conference" should be resurrected. and make it "best on best" and cherry-pick a school or two from the SEC...and the AZ schools from the Pac 10 and some of the top shelf Mountain West Conference and take this bull by the horns!

Eric Dawson 8 years, 2 months ago

FWIW--

Change in Actual Population: Top 10 States, 2000 to 2010 (National % growth 9.7%) 1. Texas 4.3M +20.6% 2. California 3.4M +10.0% 3. Florida 2.M 17.6% 4. Georgia 1.5M 18.3% 5. North Carolina 1.5M 18.5% 6. Arizona 1.2M 23.4% 7. Virginia 0.9M 13.0% 8. Washington St .8M 14.1% 9. Colorado .7M 16.9% 10. Nevada .7M 35.1%

To be fair, you did write "economic" growth, but usually population growth correlates strongly with economic growth, as folks go where the jobs are.
You are absolutely right about the Rust Belt, though -- only grew 3% over that period of time. Midwest wasn't much better at 5.8%. South (includes Texas) was 15.1% and West was 13.7%.

142466 8 years, 2 months ago

Agreed, if we are unable to join the B10 or PAC. In the short-run, we would be down-grading, and probably lose HCBS. However, within 10 years or so, your plan would be vindicated. Even without ASU and UofA.

Kansas is clearly western, not eastern; if we are are forced to choose between the two. Huge mistake to go to the east coast jungle.

louisvillejayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree that something bold need to be done and we should be proactive rather than reactive. I would propose to OK and TX that we create a 16 team league composed of the 9 remaining big 12 teams with the 7 remaining members of the Big East to become the 1st 16 team Super Conference. It preserves many of the existing rivalries, expands the geographic footprint for $, still enables the fan base to travel the the majority of the games close the their home school by splitting the conference into four pods. Texas Schools (TU, TT, Baylor, TCU) West (OK, OK St, K St, IA St), East (Rutger, wvu, uconn, s fl) Midwest (KS, MO, Louisville, Cinn). Good Basketball, Good Football. OK and TX get less challenging roads to BCS games than joining SEC, PAC, etc enabling better chance of winning NC. Propose that Texas keeps proceeds to of network but for every $1 of network revenue lowers TX allocation of Big 16 revenue by $0.50 so everyone gains from TX network but not as much as TX gains. Other teams has option of pursuing similar deal for themselves if there is demand. This is the framework but I acknowledges leaves lots of ?'s and details to be resolved

louisvillejayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Call it what you like, if there a four team or eight team playoff, winner of B16 division and probably the runner up would likely advance given that each would have 1 loss or less.

willie_fu_fu 8 years, 2 months ago

It would actually be an 8 team playoff with the Conference Champioship game being the first round of the playoff.

Aquamarine 8 years, 2 months ago

This is a lot of information to take in, but it does make the case for KU being more desirable than a lot of folks give it credit for.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

I think and hope we will apply to the Big. We have nothing to lose if we do not get a shot at the PAC. That is, if the Regents will let KU, KSU go separate ways. They can both apply and let the chips fall where they may. If OU/OSU/UT/TTech all go to the Pac that is the only move available, then settle for the merger with the East if that is all that is left.

But we have to make at least one outright application and risk the embarrassment of getting rejected. I mean it is going to be an embarrassment if we have to go with this merger anyway. Probably not even be an AQ conference. Would almost rather go to the Mountain West.

Don't see the ACC at all, not without a pod that they would entertain and KU, KSU, ISU, MU is nothing the ACC is going to be interested in.

So, it appears that the "trust me" we heard from TAMU, OU, OSU, UT, and TTech was worth about as much as a Bevo pie. Hard to believe we have been so gullible. And Boren and others can remark how they don't think these things should go to court, well easy to say in your position. Not ours. Hope we stick it to them in a big, big way.

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt, I keep reading about how ISU and Baylor have already spent their piece of the pie. Has KU already earmarked large portions of their cash? I don't recall reading we have, but I wouldn't necessarily been looking unless it involved removing that damn track!

royaljayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Bob Fescoe of 610 Sports Radio is saying he is still hearing that in an effort to build the nation's premiere basketball conference the ACC really wants KU as of this evening. Round and round and round we go...

Christopher Hauser 8 years, 2 months ago

The same Fescoe that said that Harbaugh was going to be the next head football coach at The University of Kansas and that it was in the bag. Do not get me wrong, I hope he is right and that his sources are good. 610 Sports Radio does not have the best track record from what I can remember

Ben Kane 8 years, 2 months ago

i've heard from multiple sources, including the head honcho where i work in ky (a wvu grad) that wvu wasn't invited to the acc because they have a reputation for having the worst fans in college football. if you have never been to a game there (i've been to several) you should know that reputation is easily earned. as a member of the VT band i went there for two road games and our seats were just off the field. in one game we were pelted with quarters the entire time and the next game is was AA and AAA batteries.

I personally don't want to get rid of the track.. it keeps idiots (like those from wvu) from throwing things at players, and I would hate to the lose the track tradition at kansas. if all i cared about was football, yes, i would probably want to get rid of the track, but i am not and we shouldn't.

i've done a bunch of pondering about what is truly best for the university of kansas. for me personally, i would love to see them out east more and i can convince myself that if they do that they get more national exposure. however, I believe in the founders of KU who wanted a great institution of higher learning in the heart of our country and I think we should align ourselves with those schools. clearly i'm talking B1G here. I think I would be exceptionally disappointed with our school leadership if the big12 (as we know it) falls apart and KU doesn't find a way to get into the B1G

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm with you, Bro. I think we have a real good shot. With the ACC making moves it has made that appear to be the only good option.

royaljayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

If the ACC offered the final spot in their conference to KU, would you guys jump on it, or wait and see if a spot opens up in the B1G for KU, MU, ND and one more???

Would be tough to say no to that guaranteed spot in the basketball giant that is the ACC, but the thought of going to the B1G with MU and possibly KSU would be amazing..

Christopher Hauser 8 years, 2 months ago

When a situation is unstable you try to make it stable. In my opinion, if the ACC were to offer, we run into their arms as fast as we can.

Christopher Hauser 8 years, 2 months ago

Remember the guy in High School who held out on a girl that had asked him to a dance in the hopes of going with a better looking girl and he ended up with no date.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

I'd wait. The ACC is too geographically isolated. You lose every historical rival. We would be the only team not on the east coast. Also, as has been mentioned multiple times, it does really help elevate the basketball program. KU will always play third fiddle to UNC and Duke. One could argue that Syracuse would also get more publicity.

We really need to see how everything else plays out before making a move. I'm not sure we have any other option.

142466 8 years, 2 months ago

Agreed. If forced (or given the opportunity) to choose between the east or west coasts, KU should go west. Kansas is western, not eastern.

We will be more successful in preserving our state's & school's unique identity, and with more stability, in the west.

Angus0199 8 years, 2 months ago

Believe it or not, Moran, Roberts, and Brownback are not going to let the KS schools seperate and the only reason we haven't heard anything is because we don't know what's happening w/TX and OK. If the B12 goes away, there is an invite to B10. We don't hear it because there is no reason to tip the hat, esp. if the B12 stays (they aren't going to be responsible for the B12 demise). FYI to Matt and whomever...there is pressure to B10 if there are schools needing a place. B10 and Roberts have got w/B10 for KSU and KU combined. Hope B12 stays, but if not, we're in great shape. Maybe better, but my heart is wB8 & 12. It'll be either ISU or MU w/us, dependeing on what MU decides (SEC). or both if ND stays Indy. We should sleep better than TT or Baylor. At least OSU is up OUs a$$. Can you believe if they were left w//no Pickens or OU??!!

Chris1955 8 years, 2 months ago

Angus, thanks for this update and the one last night where you spelled out why KSU would be admitted to the B1G, even though KSU isn't a AAU member.

Can you share a little information on how you came to know this information? Also, does Roberts have a connection with the B1G? I live in Houston, and dont know the Kansas pols you listed, except for Brownback whom I recall was a US Senator.

Graczyk 8 years, 2 months ago

Of course they will let the schools go separate ways - as long as it means that at least one of them will end up in a power conference. There's no way they sabotage that. It would be shortsighted and an incredible strategic blunder. If KU got into a power conference, but KSU didn't, KU could one day be in a position to lobby for KSU.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

A quote from an article in the Topeka paper. I read this as saying there is a preference for the two schools for staying together. Robertson and Moran are Kansas senators who have ZERO pull in this decision despite their K-State ties.

"Regents have become recognizable figures in the realignment drama now playing out in board rooms across the Big 12. In Kansas, the balance of power rests mostly with the university presidents, but McKechnie said the regents have worked closely with KU and K-State in the quest to save the Big 12."

http://cjonline.com/sports/football/2011-09-19/big-12-regents-chairman-hoping-cooler-heads-prevail#.Tnf7LxxUHR0

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

I hope you are right, Augs0199. If not, I hope that Larry Scott is really greedy and thinking at least PAC18 or perhaps PAC 20, taking MU and ISU. Taking the whole conference. Couldn't even fit the whole map on my avatar. It's a time for ridiculous thinking. I hope we are safe and then it falls apart and we go back to the good ole days of 8 to 10 teams with us right in the middle of a Middle-west conference.

Angus0199 8 years, 2 months ago

I hear you and am sure my take is accurate, or I'm getting crap from players...To my understanding the PAC is out, to almost 100%. ISU and MU are either B10-depending on ND. MU is SEC or B10 depending. Worst case for ISU is ND and MU to B10, then ISU may be Big E. From what i hear PAC is out for anyone S of the KS border. I'm telling you though, KS schools are either B12 or 10.

franklin2739 8 years, 2 months ago

Why would the BIG want KSU if they had Kansas, thus, giving them the KC market (or vise versa). Taking Iowa, KSU, KU and MU would upset the fan base in the BIG, add two teams that do not add enough revenue to their conference (ISU and KSU),and are not AAU members. You are obviously a KSU fan (which is fine) and I think you should land in a BCS conference if the ACC gets raided by the SEC and KU goes to the Big ten. For all of us there are a lot of moving parts here, but I don't see a scenerio where KU and KSU go somewhere together unless the Big 12 emerges from the ashes or both teams are forced to join forces with the bottom feeders of the Big East.

phoggedin 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt, thanks again for another great day of keeping us up to date.

Perhaps the most interesting development of the day was the statement from UCLA. That certainly didn't indicate to me any strong desire to expand. The statement leaves the door open, of course, but it also expresses some notable reservations. In the Pac, the league usually goes the way the California schools vote, so I think it's not yet certain they are willing to expand. That UCLA said so publicly is interesting.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I think KU is handling this the right way -- at least when it comes to behaving in an honorable, respectable way. The public way that OU and UT have been batting their eyes at the Pac -- two years in a row now -- is becoming unseemly. Maybe even downright embarrassing for them.

Kevin Randell 8 years, 2 months ago

I would actually love to see us in the Big 10. I am excited at the thought of seeing the likes of schools like Michigan, Ohio St, and even Joe Pa come to Lawrence!!! Also, as a Vikings fan, I wouldn't mind traveling up to Minni and catching a KU/Gofers game then staying over night and watching the Vikings play.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

I think we would be playing those games in Arrowhead.

The Northwestern, Indiana ones would be played at Lawrence.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

When the big boys in the Big 10 play Northwestern, they play at Ryan Field which is slightly smaller than Memorial Stadium instead of at Soldier Field so I don't think they would demand to play at Arrowhead. If a network payed KU a bunch of money to move the game to Arrowhead, they would probably consider it, but not for a game on the BTN.

JayDocMD 8 years, 2 months ago

Interesting nugget from ESPN.com. Not sure where they get the info from, but its the first time I've heard ACC and ND mentioned.

Here's the link and the quote is below: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6993604/big-east-big-12-talking-possible-merger-report-says

"According to a source close to Notre Dame, the Irish's first choice is to remain as an independent in football and stay in the Big East in all other sports. If the Irish decide they can't remain as a football independent then the choice would be to pursue the ACC before the Big Ten."

Christopher Hauser 8 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for all the info again today Matt, appreciate you.

NOVAhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I have a bad feeling that the BoR is going to screw KU over by forcing us to take little brother Willie wherever we go. Reports are already surfacing saying that misery is courting the SEC and they don't have our baggage. KU needs to act now! We deserve better than a seat at the kids' table.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

I think at the end of the day the Board of Regents will realize they don't have alot of influence over the situation. If KU has a chance to go to the Big 10 or Pac 12 without K-State there will be alot of political rhetoric, but they will not stand in the way. If you read the article I posted and linked to, it mentioned that "the balance of power rests mostly with the university presidents."

JayDocMD 8 years, 2 months ago

This seems to contradict what J. Kealing says on another story's thread:

"The Regents are given the power to approve or reject any contract that a state university enters into. See Kan. Stat. 76-721"

NOVAhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I hope you're right, Rob. But will we dare to take any action before the board meets Thursday? As quickly as this thing is moving, that seems a long ways off... It would be nice if the University would at least give us some assurance that they are considering options other than the B12's survival.

Eric Dawson 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt,

Does the Kansas Board of Regents have any real power to stop KU from leaving the Big 12 without KSU? Based on the article in the TCJ, the real power in this instance lies with the Kansas schools presidents and chancellors.

Thanks!

JayHawk_from_SWKS 8 years, 2 months ago

According to this

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/19/mountain-west-conference-usa-working-on-merger/

Mountain West and Conference USA may be working on forming a 22-team super conference. This may be a good thing. If they make it seem uncool, no one will want to do it ;).

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

The bubble didn't burst today, so I guess that makes it a good day for KU. While I'm not sure I agree with the article last week that 'KU was winning the realignment game', I commend the AD and chancellor is understanding the weak hand they have to playing it well. It's got to be hard.

It sounds like the ball is in OU's court and they could decide not to leave the conference and in that case, I think that KU stays with an expanded Big 12 hopefully with a humbled UT.

I imagine if we polled everyone, the vast majority would say their dream location is the Big 10. That option isn't closed if the Big 12 continues to operate. If the Big 12 ceases to exist in five years and if AAU membership is a prerequisite if you are not Notre Dame, then there are limited candidates and KU is one of them. The ACC expansion could be a good thing. It effectively limits both the SEC and Big 10's expansion options to the west. If the power conferences feel compelled to get to 16 members, I think there will be a slot for KU in either the SEC, Pac 12 or Big 10.

franklin2739 8 years, 2 months ago

I think the BOR can override any contract by either school (thought I read that in some class I had). But, I don't think they would. It would be political sucide for Brownback. He basically controls the BOR because he appointed them. All of the Koch brother's money would not stop Kansas Alumni from electing a DEM instead of Brownback next time around. Further, what point does it prove to destroy two schools BCS status in one state. If the position was reversed I would not insist on riding KSU's coat tails if it would mean no major conference in the state of Kansas. There is more at stake than football now. Atheltic dollars amount to research money, which amounts to more grad programs, more students, and more overall money flowing into the state of Kansas land grant college system., The BOR needs to consider this as an educational issue and not an atheltic one. It would be great if KU was bringing in the invites and could move KSU to the conference of our choosing. This ain't going down. KU is a 15th, 16th, or 17th choice for most confrences and the 13 and 14th choices may want to bring little brother along. KU can't save KSU, but we can save our land grant schools from becoming non- entities.

Jabberhawky 8 years, 2 months ago

Brownback did not appoint any of the current members of the BOR. All were appointed (or re-appointed) by Sebelius or Parkinson.

Steve Hillyer 8 years, 2 months ago

Done. I did last time and I did again tonight.

franklin2739 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt, one question, if you are not off to sleeply sleep yet. I don't understand how KU can be, typically, a school that grosses in the top 25 in gross atheltic revenue and be considered have nots in this realignment thing. After OU, UT, and Norte Dame are off the table, there are no more football powerhouses left (unless teams from the ACC bolt). I've seen message boards from schools who gross less than KU where the posters agree that KU brings little value. I get TV markets, but I also get that if noone in that TV market is really watching, yes I'm speaking of Rutgers, why does a TV market matter. Why would companies advertise on a network whose games are not watched. KU has value, certainly, and it is proven by our gross sports revenue. Sorry to bug you, but I don't understand this. Not one sports writer has mention this (that I have seen), and I think it matters. In my humble opinion, gross sports revenue is our arguement. Why am I wrong?

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

It's a good question and I'm not sure it's one that anybody can answer well enough for you to like it.

The bottom line, I believe, is that football is a sport that has the potential to generate so much more revenue than basketball. If you do the math, even with just six home football games vs. 20 home basketball games, it's not even funny how much more money can be earned in college football as opposed to college basketball. And we're not just talking tickets here.

Outside of the NCAA Tournament, which is a beast unto itself, the television dollars for football are exponentially higher and more readily available than they are for basketball.

Think about it.... even a program like Kansas, is only on NATIONAL television 8-10 times per season on average. That's not very much, especially when some of those are week night games and almost all of those are competing against other sports/events in the same time slot. College football is one day, one game, a week's worth of build up for marketing and advertising purposes and it's played in front of crowds four and five times larger than hoops crowds, at the very least.

Again, I'm no expert on the financial aspect of this, but that is the way I understand it.

Hope that helps... I'll ask around to see if I can get more info for a later article/update.

af13 8 years, 2 months ago

Thanks. I've been wondering about this as well. It just didn't make sense to me that the SOURCE of revenue was so important (football). If KU really is in the to 25 for athletic revenue, it is definitely because of basketball. I was also wondering if maybe there were different revenue sharing rules with basketball dollars that causes them to not be as favorable as football dollars. Any idea?

franklin2739 8 years, 2 months ago

Thanks Matt,

Seems like someone needs to run the numbers. I get the numbers in terms ofthe OSU v. FSU football game being worth four or five times (maybe 10x) more than the KU v. MU game in B-Ball in terms of TV revenue, ticket revenue, and national interest. However, when KU plays G-Tech on ESPN 3 in football does it equal KU verses MU fox game of the week in B-ball (even if it is on a monday)? Does Rutgers verses UCONN in football on ESPN Ocho make more than the above senerio? I really don't understand how NE, aTm, and KU can all make almost identical dollars in gross sports revenue(under the Big 12 structure) if b- ball is such a non- entity in terms of revenue. I'm not dissing your repy, I'm extremely thankful for it, but it does not answer the question why KU makes more or as much as many football power houses in terms of overall gross sports revenue. Thanks again to replying to me. I really want someone to run the numbers. I'm really tired of hearing that KU does not make enough money to be considered in this realignment mess,by schools who make less money in atheltics than KU. I would love an article on this issue.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

I'll look into it a little more, but I think it has to do with what TV is WILLING to pay.

Because KU's a major brand in basketball, they're able to make a ton of money because the networks are open to paying to get them.

That said, with even mediocre football games paying more than basketball games on average, more schools are in a position to capitalize on that money even though they don't have an elite-level football program...

That might not clear it up any more but that's the way I understand it. I'll ask around this week and I'm sure someone can clear it up better than that.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

From what I've read in the past, it seemed like even some crappy Tuesday afternoon bowl game between a MAC and Sunbelt team usually has higher ratings than even an UNC-Duke basketball game to give you an idea of where elite level college basketball is compared to any college football game.

willie_fu_fu 8 years, 2 months ago

I looked at our current roster to see what states our players were from based on the BCS conferences. With 110 players(walk-on's included) on the current roster 30 are from states from outside the current Big 12. 36 are from the combined states of Kansas, Iowa and Missouri. 15 are from current states that retain teams from the B1G, 8 are from current Pac 12 states and only 12 from combined current ACC and Big East states. 38 players are from Texas and 6 from Oklahoma.

Just think how recruiting would change if we go to one of the other conferences.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years, 2 months ago

Being that I live in Dallas I have noticed KU gets a lot of the TX high schools kids that were "shunned away" from the UT's, OU's, etc. Ever since the inception of the Big 12 in 1996 we have gotten more and more TX kids--now more than a 1/3 of our team is TX kids. Look at Dezmon Briscoe from here in Dallas and Todd Reesing from Austin--just to name 2. Texas, California and Florida--those are the best states to produce the best football players. We go east and our talent will go down. We go west and maybe get some exposure to California kids but not much. And the state of Florida we will never recruit from.

Joe Templeton 8 years, 2 months ago

We all must admit Bkb is king in Lawrence Ks and always will. Sure we will get a bowl game every now and then so pull your head out of the sand, wipe the tears from your eyes and put down the bong. WE ARE A BASKETBALL SCHOOL and this late in the game its everyone man (or woman) for themselves

Im my humble opinion, we should do everything in our power to go to a conference thats also strong in Bkb as well. ACC ..... every team in that conference is fairly strong in Bkb and have also built their schools with revenue from it. If it means breaking away from KSU and MU so be it. Who in their right mind wouldnt trade a home game with Sunflower Showdown and the Border War for 2 trips down tabacco road with UNC and Duke? Hell, the students would start lining up this weekend for a homecoming with __ (you fill in the blank I still can mention his name in this house or the wife will beat me like a red headed MU fan. Furthermore, what are non-cons?? A yearly schoolyard beating of KSU and MU!!!.

If we are shuned from the ACC ( and Dickie V will have a say in that) we need to knock on B1Gs door and see if they want to give us a few conference banners to hang from the rafters. Remember Jacques freshman year when he hit the game winner against the Hoosiers? Rumor has it that was the loudest AFH has ever been. I know they are shell of what they were but IU will always be IU. Throw in "The Ohio State University" and tossin the always powerful Spartans and Badgers. You still have Purdue, Michigan and Iowa. I know I know as with every conference there are always a couple cupcakes like the Cornhuskers up north.

My 3rd choice would have to be the SEC with Kentucky. HCBS always battles Calipari in every bluechips livingroom so we might as well battle it out in the fieldhouse too. Florida, Arkansas, TxA&M, LSU, Tenn

My last choice would be the Pac74. We played most of the conference in the last couple years and to be honest with you I wasnt too impressed. Sure if my memory serves me correct we did lose a couple but frankly I was looking for a pillow midway through the first half. Sure a yearly match up with UCLA, Stanford and USC would be nice but there really isnt too much out there on the hardwood when you get right down to it.

Basically, what Im getting at is the BIG12 in its current state cant compete with what the ASS errr ACC and the B1G has to offer in hoops. I thought we should of been looking to jump ship when TxA&M said they were setting sail instead of trying to create the Mountain West of the Plains.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years, 2 months ago

Big 12 is a hybrid football/hoops conference. Problem is the great hoops teams that OU and Mizzery had of the old Big 8 days are gone--leaving it seems just us and UT as the only legit threats in b-ball (and UT has Rick Barnes--they never will go far with him). B1G as far as hoops has only really had Michigan State, in my opinion, as the only one that has done well on a consistent basis.

FLJHK 8 years, 2 months ago

Wisconsin, Ohio State, Purdue and Illinois have been very solid for several years. Indiana will find themselves someday and return to prominence. Michigan, Iowa and Minnesota are pretty good some years.

Only Penn St, Northwestern and Nebraska seem uninterested.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years, 2 months ago

And you can say the same for A&M and Okie State. I'm talking consistent threat that finish well---outside of Ohio State the other year there have been no actual Final 4s or Elite 8s on a regular basis of Purdue, Illinois and Wisconsin.

Steve Corder 8 years, 2 months ago

1) Let OU walk out with UT to PAC 10...just go already. Boren and the UT folks are like scared cats that spook easily. If it is so easy to just up and move to the greener pastures of another conference then it would have happened by now.

2) Pres. Boren has a Napoleonic complex and thinks the Okie state brings a lot to the PAC 10. Stanford, Cal Berkley and UCLA brie and avocado crowd will still think of John Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath when the OU sooner fans roll into town with their white jeans embroidered with red "OU" patches on the back pockets or the orange clad Cowboys show up in their motor homes. He may think he fits in with the presidents of the west coast schools but he'll never really make the inner circle he apparently craves. Fly a few jets into town, flash your wife's Hermes bag and learn which side of the plate the bread and water belong, but in the end OU, OSU, Tech & even UT will be the embarrassing and unsophisticated relative. Welcome to the west coast! Go ahead OU, OSU, UT & Tech....make my day!

3) Have patience and let them go ahead and make the first move. Then watch out for law suits and possible injunctions from the financial fall-out which will likely follow when multimillion dollar contracts are jeopardized. Nothing makes one pause with nervous sweat like silence or few words of warning.

4) The Baylor "I-won't sign-a-wavier" baptists are not to be taken lightly, and the relative silence from KU is not to be taken as a sign of weakness or that it is time to panic with scenarios of disaster and doom. And remember, KU basketball is the sport that will be protected and not the football program when and IF there is realignment.

5) Bill Self wheels a lot of power and prestige at KU and around the country. He's involved in all this.

6) My wild guess: UT talks OU into staying by recalculating revenue sharing within the Big12, three teams are added and the Longhorn Network is modified. $$$, regional affiliation and fan base travel will win out.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree as well with your #6 as things are now--seems there has been some talk of schools in Pac resisting. If UT can work out revenue share then Big 12 stays.

FLJHK 8 years, 2 months ago

Fully agree with your assessment of the Pac's reception toward the Texas and Oklahoma schools. The cultural fit isn't there. To the Pac I would say, yes it certainly enhances your football cred and gives you an enviable footprint/market area. But be careful what you wish for.

In part I hope it happens, because if it does and the SEC and ACC follow-up and expand as generally anticipated, it clearly opens a door for us to get into the Big 10, the best of all possible scenarios culturally, geographically and academically.

I don't think it too wild a guess about the Big 12 surviving as you describe. That too would be fine with me, provided legal constructs are in place to ensure some degree of stability. The more ties that can be kept with the old Big 8 members, the better.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

More evidence that the UT is not sold on the P12.

"University of Texas President William Powers Jr. was given the authority Monday to explore changing conferences, and Texas will seriously consider trying to join the Pacific-12 and the Atlantic Coast conferences if not other possibilities, sources close to the realignment discussions told the American-Statesman and business partner Hookem.com.

Powers was given the charge of leading Texas' realignment search following an hour-plus long executive session meeting of the UT regents. Powers has the authority to keep Texas in the Big 12, but any recommendations to move to another conference would have to be approved by regents."

http://www.statesman.com/sports/longhorns/regents-give-powers-the-ok-to-study-horns-1867880.html

If the UT BOR was sold on the P12, they'd have given Powers the authority that OU's BOR gave to Boren. Instead, they saddled him with a group of babysitters and told him he couldn't take Bevo out of the B12 w/o their permission.

If negotiations w/P12 were close to resolution, you don't add negotiatiators and you don't publicly announce you're also exploring other options and it may take awhile.

Mangino, I'm not waiting for you - Pray for Pac

JayDocMD 8 years, 2 months ago

Also, Chip Brown on orangebloods.com's most recent update says Tech isn't an acceptable candidate if TX starts looking back to the ACC. Says ACC wants KU or MU with TX if they come. Alsodoome talk of Tech joining A&M to SEC. Final and main point of the update was a 2 week timeframe for a decision - mainly waiting to see if OU declares for PAC and then if they are accepted without TX.

Nick Cole 8 years, 2 months ago

For those of you who want to contact the Kansas BOR but don't want to write your own letter, feel free to use the template below and sign your name at the bottom. Thanks.

https://www.kansasregents.org/form.cfm?formID=6

Dear BOR,

I have a concern that I'm positive you have heard a thousand times before now, but I feel it needs to be restated until someone on the BOR comes out and makes this same statement.

The University of Kansas and Kansas State University are in some potential threatening situations with conference realignment a current hot topic. While I fully understand the State of Kansas wanting to keep it's two flagship institutions relevant among the college landscape, there are some things you should consider first.

The following states have a larger population than the state of Kansas: Arkansas, Connecticut, Kentucky, Alabama, Colorado, Missouri, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio, Maryland, Indiana, Georgia, and Illinois to name just a few. You may be asking yourselves, "What do all these states have in common, and how does it relate to conference realignment?" All of the states mentioned only have one flagship state institution of higher education. Taking this fact into consideration, I do not understand why you, the BOR, continually insist on tying The University of Kansas and Kansas State University together in this mess. To me, and many others in the state of Kansas and around the country, it would be a better idea to have one flagship institution in a power conference than to have both schools end up in a weakened position. The only way to ensure the greater good for the State of Kansas is to allow both schools to actively pursue all options that are in their individual best interest. I know you don't have to listen to one voice, but be aware that I don't only speak for myself on this matter. In the interest of the future of the state I know and love as home, please consider the information presented in this letter when making you future altering decision regarding higher education in the State of Kansas. Your decisions will affect millions past, present, and future.

Kind regards,

{YOUR NAME}

FLJHK 8 years, 2 months ago

Great letter. Obviously, because of the population issue you couldn't mention Nebraska, which is otherwise the most analogous situation.

Unlike probably most on this site, KSU is and will always be my 2nd favorite university. I truly hope they prosper. And like the BOR, I truly hope that both universities end up in a desirable situation, and possibly in the same conference.

But in the meantime, in these troubled and turbulent times, the State of Kansas simply cannot afford to hamstring the efforts of either university to secure a desirable landing spot.

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