Sunday, December 12, 2010

Rams’ Green frustrated by setback

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor extends to block  Colorado State guard Dorian Green's shot during the second half, Saturday, Dec. 11, 2010 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City.

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor extends to block Colorado State guard Dorian Green's shot during the second half, Saturday, Dec. 11, 2010 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City.



KU vs. Colorado State

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Kansas defeated Colorado State, 76-55, at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo., December 11, 2010.

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 76-55 victory over Colorado State on Dec. 11, 2010, at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

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— For 40 minutes on the floor, a few more during the postgame handshakes and 7:09 in front of the media, Colorado State sophomore Dorian Green kept it together.

However, on the way back to the locker room after CSU’s 76-55 loss to Kansas University at Sprint Center, the former Lawrence High standout experienced a wave of emotions he didn’t quite expect.

“It’s just kind of frustrating,” said Green, with tears welling in his eyes. “It doesn’t matter who you’re playing, you have to bring it. In the first half, we proved that we could play with anybody. We didn’t play too well in the second half, is what it really comes down to.”

In a nutshell, that’s what Saturday was about for Green. Not the homecoming, not playing the Jayhawks, not anything other than basketball.

“When we travel, we call it a business trip,” Green said. “It was a good experience to play against a team like that, and it was good to be back home, but I was really just trying to focus on getting a win.”

In the first half, Green’s efforts made an impact, and the Rams trailed by just seven (41-34) at the break. At halftime, the 6-foot-2, 170-pound point guard led all scorers with 10 points on 2-of-4 shooting, with two three-pointers and a 4-for-4 effort at the free-throw line.

“I thought Dorian was the best player of the (first) half,” KU coach Bill Self said. “He took four shots, and he scored 10 points. That’s production.”

Green opened the game with a three-pointer from the wing and added another — a couple of feet farther out — with just under three minutes to play in the half. In the first minute of the game alone, Green hit a three-pointer, grabbed a defensive rebound and swiped a steal.

For the game, he finished with 10 points, three rebounds and two assists in 30 minutes.

“I think he was solid,” KU junior Tyshawn Taylor said. “I think he played real good. I actually went to see Dorian play in high school one time, and I like his game a lot.”

The second half did not go as well for the hometown product, who was welcomed to the Sprint Center floor with a warm cheer during introductions. Green misfired on the only two shots he attempted and also missed his only free throw. Credit the Kansas defense for the former. Taylor said Green’s two first-half three-pointers opened his eyes and forced him to dig in defensively.

“I actually wasn’t expecting him to shoot that (first one),” Taylor said. “And then he hit another one that was kind of deep, too, right in my face. I (tried) to pressure him and made him do some different things. But once he got a clear look, he was going up, and he made two real good ones.”

Although CSU coach Tim Miles said he enjoyed the opportunity to measure up against the No. 4 team in the nation, he, too, was able to enjoy Green’s return.

“I thought it was a special time when the crowd erupted and everybody was so gracious to him,” Miles said. “He’s a special kid and a really good basketball player, and we’re fortunate to have him. I thought it was a pretty cool moment. And to make his first three, boy, I thought he was a really good guy.”

Miles also was able to appreciate just how good the Jayhawks were, even on a day when Self called his team, “awful.”

“I thought Kansas did a real good job with their length and athleticism, getting out and pressuring,” Miles said. “And then when we did drive, I thought their help was pretty good.”

CSU, which lost in overtime at Colorado last Wednesday, fell to 4-3, while Kansas improved to 9-0.


jaybate 7 years, 6 months ago


It is pretty clear what Self was doing in this CSU game.

It's called: since CSU is a weak team, don't give KU any schemes, or special plays, that give them advantages. Don't amp them up. Then let'em labor. Then chew on them the entire game. and then after the game, and then tell them that they've got to take the next week to get a lot better, or else they are going to get blown out in conference play.

Then work them hard and be ready to roll out the new and improved Jayhawks with new focus and a some schemes to give them an edge in their next game.

Self has this part of coaching down to a science.

He probably knew just about exactly how much KU would win by in this game.

Ashwin Rao 7 years, 6 months ago

Oh, sorry, I forgot that we are in Basketball season now! :)

Mike Bratisax 7 years, 6 months ago

UCLA and Arizona are usually top 10 teams. I'm not sure if they knew at the time of scheduling that these teams would be having a down year. We have also played Memphis and will be playing USC on the road. I would like to see us play Wichita and I don't know why that hasn't happened.

John Randall 7 years, 6 months ago

The wish for a game with WU, at least every other year is really something that should happen.

About our schedule this year, the USC game is in AFH next Saturday, followed by the Bears in Berkeley, CA. Most years you would expect four quality teams from these Pac10 schools. This year is just an exception, and still we had more than a little nudge in Vegas, and some laundry to do after the scare from UCLA. Hope there is better preparation and intensity for these next two.

FSUJHAWK 7 years, 6 months ago

Normally I would want to agree with you. But I agree with both Jbate above and 7782 below. We have no control over how great or poorly a tradition rich team will pan out 3-4 years in advance when the schedule contracts are signed. Considering this, HCBS does the unthinkable by not showing his hand in early season matches, even when the game is on the line. This is done to have the players learn to deal with adversity and become accustomed to digging deep down inside. Execution and guts is what HCBS is looking for. Scheduling and conference readiness, I hate to say, doesn't mean as much as execution, just ask Memphis in '08. If they had better free throw shooters it would have been a different story for all of us. Let's hope something as simple as free throws doesn't come back to haunt us as it did earlier this decade.


John Randall 7 years, 6 months ago

You mean going 13 of 30 was a big factor in losing the 2003 final to 'Melo and company?

Tony Bandle 7 years, 6 months ago

Random thoughts:

Thanks to the uniforms, the game had a real Christmas feel to it!!

Nice touch having Dorian's last name match his uniform color.

Now, if we could only find a five star with the last name of Kansas.

The refereeing was incredibly bad...for both sides. Maybe, until our foul shooting improves will just take the option of getting the ball back.......oh wait, that's not in the rules:)

Withey couldn't beat a guy 7" shorter than himself...I guess that's not a very good sign for his progress at the moment....maybe Sasha should join a practice or two!! :)

I hope the Mr. and Mrs. Booth are given a permanent seat on the Kansas bench for all games for the rest of their lives.....thank you again.!!

Mike Bratisax 7 years, 6 months ago

Could not agree more about the refereeing, bad on both sides and never let the game establish any type of rhythm.

John Randall 7 years, 6 months ago

That (option to shoot one and keep the ball) was the rule back in the '40-50s -- not exactly sure when it changed to nullify slow-down tactics -- but way before the shot clock was added.

Wilt was the reason for two changes back then -- free throw shooter can't follow a miss until it hits rim, and widening the lane from six feet to ten. Russell had already caused the 3 seconds and goaltending rules. The non-dunk rule was for klutzes who shattered (or bent) backboards before break-away rims allowed the return of dunking.

Dr. Jim would be amazed by many current rules, but probably would agree it is still a great way to keep kids off the street over the winter.

jaybate 7 years, 6 months ago

Ralster...getting to"it"

Rock Chalk!

jaybate 7 years, 6 months ago

Withey looks very confused right now, almost lost. He came with a fine touch and Seif and Manning have him shooting 45% at the stripe.

I have not seen a player look this confused since Tyshawn last season. :-)

We know what caused Tyshawn's funk. Self put Ty in the toughening box. Ty got the paradoxing. Ty got no love. Ty got all the unfair treatment. Ty got a steady dose of expectations without fulfillment. Ty was forced to watch lessees do better. Ty got to see his his basketball life pass before his eyes.

My guess in creole right now be dis: Big Jeff, de guy wid as much po in de paint as Ty had on de perimeter last year... that Big Jeff, he be inde toughening box. And he going to stay dere until dis team band together to protect him from de coaches and until Big Jeff he discover how much pain he can really feel.

Mike Bratisax 7 years, 6 months ago

I believe it was you who pointed out that both HCBS and Lute Olson must have seen something in him since they both recruited him. If i'm wrong about that, I apologize but whoever said it, I agree. Hopefully he will realize that he is 7 foot tall and start playing like it.

brooksmd 7 years, 6 months ago

jaybate...nice "creole" touch, but it be "dat" Big Jeff, not that Big Jeff as in "Who dat say gonna beat dem Saints? Who dat? Who dat?"

jaybate 7 years, 6 months ago

Each year Self picks on certain guys with tons of talent that are a little soft. He destroys them and rebuilds them psychologically to do two things

A) toughen a player who really hasn't got enough temper at the core yet; and

B) drive the team together to protect that player from the awful treatment.

Warning--nonlinear leap: Self has a problem with The Twins. They are still too close for the team to come completely together. And there is going to come time, when one is injured, or fouled up, and Self will need them to play as well with Withey as with each other.

Part of the problem sources to Cole taking Withey under his wing for two years and Withey having bonded with Cole instead of with the Twins.

Now Cole is gone and the Twins are in the driver's seats and they are bonded with TRob and Withey is odd man out. Bad situation for team chemistry that remains hidden right now, because of winning. But when the losses come, it will arise, if Self does not act preemptively.

Self first tried solving things by appealing to his team leader--Tyshawn. Ty tried, but it did not work.

Now Self is resorting to the toughening box. Okay, he is saying, if you won't let him into your inner circle, then watch him suffer because you won't let him in.

This is also Withey's fault. He probably lacked some bonding skills in the first place. East coasters can be frustrating to west coasters when first encountered on a level of having to work closely together. Unlike midwesterners, who may also struggle with east coast cultural cues, west coasters lack any sense of geographic inferiority. They don't try to bridge the regional gap any harder than the east coasters do, where as the Midwesterners think, well, we're from nowhere so we better try to get along and be deferential until we are sure we are better, :-)

I don't mean to suggest there is overt bad chemistry here. I am sure Withey and the Twins get on fine superficially.

But the deep trust and love of equals is probably not there.

And all the bigs are after all fighting for the same minutes.

How does Self bridge the Twin's chemistry? The fight for the same minutes?c

How does he bridge Withey bonding with Cole and not The Twins and TRob?

How does he bridge the different regional and racial cues all Americans struggle at times with?

I suspect Self is going to so abuse Withey that the Twins have to invite him into their birth orbit; that's how!

Self is going to force the Twins to discover at their tender ages a sense of compassion and humanity for another human being on a par with that they feel for each other.

jaybate 7 years, 6 months ago

He is going to put a guy they had to beat out for pt into the toughening box and say now that you have beaten him out you have to save him!

He is going to put a guy in the toughening box who resents having been beaten out and say the only way out of your he'll is to be saved by the guys who beat you out.

Talk about tough love.

If Self succeeds, this will be the greatest gift he ever gives the twins.

If Self succeeds, this toughening of Withey, combined with the lesson in learning to bond not just with those you understand, but with those that you do not, will be the greatest gift he gives to Withey.

If Self succeeds, this will be the greatest gift he gives this team.

It will give them a chance to become the special team that last year's team failed to become.

Withey is still a mobile 7 footer with a fine touch. He weighs 20 more pounds, too. He still blocks shots like no one else on the team. He still gets fouled more times per minute played than any other big on the team. His team still needs him.

But they need to love him like a brother, like a twin, not like a missing piece, or like a Cal guy, and he has to view them similarly.

Apparently, to do that, he has to go to the toughening box.

It will no doubt also build a bond between Jeff and Tyshawn.

Tyshawn understands, like no one else on this team understands.

Sometimes the price team is high for certain players.

Sometimes it costs not less than everything.

Ed Brown 7 years, 6 months ago

Bottom line with Withey is he doesn't listen to Manning because he has one fundamental flaw that takes away all his height advantage, he puts the ball on the floor for one dribble almost always and loses the ball or forgets to jump. He has to catch and shoot high or he isn't really 7'.

jaybate 7 years, 6 months ago

I will watch for this.

But I find it hard to believe.

Such simple to fix flaws rarely persist so many seasons, and off-seasons, even when they are shortened with injuries.

I would be more inclined to think he has been specifically taught to put the ball on the floor, as a means of helping him leverage off his mobility and mask his lack of upper body strength.

Withey's outstanding trait, so far in this (for him) troubled season, is his ability to draw fouls at an amazing rate. It is unfortunate for him that he is in a slump at the line. Perhaps they are fouling him, because the word is he cannot shoot FTs, but I doubt it.

Frankly, Withey looked like he was sick vs. CSU. Pale. Gaunt. Lost we ight and strength from the beginning of the season.

But whatever it is, he can draw fouls at a rate per minute, as no recent KU bigs have been able to do.

This is an awesome talent for any player to have, especially a big...if one can make the FTs.

John Randall 7 years, 6 months ago

The fact is, Danny has taught him to handle the ball high, but the (maybe overdone) toughening treatment causes him to revert to old (bad) habits.

I do believe he has the fortitude (perhaps undiscovered) to survive all of it and be productive later this season and a real force in coming seasons.

Right now, he's trying so hard it makes him seem confused. Getting back on D, you can see him remember "Oh, yeah, I need to hustle!" All this will pass and he'll either settle at the level of middle-inning reliever or become "the beast from the toughening box".

Mike Bratisax 7 years, 6 months ago

You have no idea how many times I've screamed at my TV when Withey tries to dribble instead of going hard to the basket.

Steve Kubler 7 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, the grand-kids were herded upstairs after he tried to dribble while double teamed when he should have turned and dunked. Evidently I was foaming at the mouth and ranting a little bit.

I had the same habit once upon a time and still remember the abuse I took because of it. Not that I was anywhere near being a good player but I dang sure learned to keep the ball high and and go straight up pretty quickly just to save my a$$.

And yes taking a so called power dribble is supposed to help you jump strongly but if you are 7 feet tall why in the world would that be required? You did notice he went to the bench right after and did not return till the end of the game.

Tony Bandle 7 years, 6 months ago

Jaybate...good point about Jeff and Cole. This year's team is all guards, #3's and power forwards.[Sorry, even for his size, Markieff is a power forward]. Jeff has no one to relate to in the flow of the game as a true center]

Maybe HCBS should just tell him he is the biggest power forward in America and things will improve.

Spoken with no malice but not all in jest.

jaybate 7 years, 6 months ago

You are onto something, also. They worked so hard to make Jeff emulate Cole that they broke what he was in the first place...a Footer four, not a footer five. Now they have neither, but it will come...if he is not seriously I'll.

jaybate 7 years, 6 months ago


This team needs speed on the floor till they run into a load in the post, like th kid at ucla, then they need a load in the post, too. Come XTReme March the bigger the better.

And Jeff is in the box for a month or more.

KU_FanSince75 7 years, 6 months ago


Nice article. Always nice to see and hear from the opponent's view of things. Tim Miles seems to be a nice coach and will have CSU competitive in their League. I thought Green competed. It was emotional for him. All you can ask of athletes is to compete and give it your best shot. Green did that. I was impressed with how he competed, especially in the first half. I hope he does great things for the Rams program because he is a Kansan and a Lawrence High School alum.

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