Kansas defeats Belmont, 81-51

  • 8 p.m., Dec. 29, 2009
  • Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, KS

Wednesday, December 30, 2009

Kansas yucks it up

No joke: Sub snafu highlight for KU

Kansas forward Xavier Henry backs off as center Cole Aldrich pulls a rebound away from Belmont forward Mitch Hedgepeth during the first half, Tuesday, Dec. 29, 2009 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas forward Xavier Henry backs off as center Cole Aldrich pulls a rebound away from Belmont forward Mitch Hedgepeth during the first half, Tuesday, Dec. 29, 2009 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Audio clips

2009 KU-Belmont

Reader poll

Which of these four freshmen do you think will increase their minutes most as the season progresses?

  • Thomas Robinson 41% 1229 votes
  • C.J. Henry 19% 586 votes
  • Jeff Withey 11% 350 votes
  • Elijah Johnson 26% 766 votes

2931 total votes.

Reader poll

Who do you believe is KU's player of the decade?

  • Sherron Collins 12% 493 votes
  • Kirk Hinrich 19% 786 votes
  • Brandon Rush 4% 187 votes
  • Nick Collison 29% 1176 votes
  • Wayne Simien 8% 336 votes
  • Drew Gooden 2% 83 votes
  • Mario Chalmers 21% 848 votes
  • Cole Aldrich 1% 58 votes
  • Other 0% 38 votes

4005 total votes.


KU vs. Belmont

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KU takes on Belmont Tuesday, Dec. 29, 2009 at Allen Fieldhouse.

It wasn’t so funny at the time, not with Kansas University’s basketball team struggling mightily against tiny Belmont.

But later on Tuesday night, after the Jayhawks had comfortably disposed of the Atlantic Sun Conference school, 81-51, jokes could be cracked about perhaps the only possession in KU and Allen Fieldhouse history that started with just four Jayhawks on the floor.

“It was great because it was probably our best offensive possession of the game,” KU coach Bill Self said of a possession that began out of a timeout with 7:50 left in the first half, with KU up, 21-15.

“I was really proud of our team. We totally baffled their defense and were able to make a good play. Tyshawn made a great play. I thought that was pretty sweet to come off the bench and in a few seconds make a great play like that,” Self added in a sarcastic tone.

Tyshawn Taylor, who had been in the game before the timeout, was told to take a seat by Self. Shortly after, he found himself frantically waved into the game by Self and Sherron Collins, who noticed just four Jayhawks on the offensive end of the floor.

Taylor was allowed to jump off the bench and sprint onto the court without heading to the scorer’s table since Tyrel Reed, who didn’t hear Self tell him to check into the game for Taylor, never did.

“I almost got an assist. Cole missed a layup, but it looked good,” joked Taylor, who after exiting the bench, ran down the court, and with 16,300 fans both gasping and laughing, accepted a pass then dished inside to Cole Aldrich, who missed an inside shot, but was fouled.

Aldrich, who came close to a triple-double with 11 points, 14 rebounds and six blocks, hit one of two free throws, making the crazy possession a success.

“I don’t think coach told Tyrel he was supposed to sub for me,” Taylor said. “Coach told me, ‘You get a break,’ but didn’t tell Tyrel to go in. I was ready to sit down on the bench, but Elijah (Johnson) was like, ‘There’s only four people out there.’ Coach looked at me so I ran out there. I knew I wasn’t in trouble ’cause coach told me to sit down.”

Freshman Elijah Johnson, who had seven points off 3-of-3 shooting with three assists in 10 minutes, laughed when informed that Taylor gave him an assist for noticing an incomplete lineup.

“Tyrel was looking for a seat on the bench, and we didn’t have any. I told Tyrel, ‘If you don’t have a seat, then there must be only four on the floor.’ I was joking around, but then I counted, and there were four out there. I told coach, and coach told him to get out there. That’s the first time I’ve seen that.”

Self had it happen to one of his teams at Illinois.

For the record, he took the blame for this one.

“I told Ty (Taylor) he was out. I thought I told Tyrel to go get him. Tyrel didn’t hear me,” Self said. “I guess that was my fault.”

At any rate, it provided at least one humorous moment on a night the coach was displeased, to put it mildly, with his team’s play.

The Jayhawks opened with an 11-0 run, but trailed at 15-14 and led by just 36-26 at halftime. KU opened the second half on another 11-0 spurt, finally gaining a 47-26 lead and safely securing the program’s 50th straight victory in the fieldhouse.

“We know we can play a lot better than that,” Taylor said.

Much better than that.

KU’s coach said, among other things, that his team played “poorly,” “awful,” and “soft” the majority of the contest.

“We had a size advantage, and I have a guy coming out of the game saying, ‘Coach, I am not that big,’ and I’m saying, ‘It’s Belmont. They aren’t either,’” Self said, not identifying the player.

Chances are that player wasn’t the 6-foot-11 Aldrich, who hit four of five shots and three of four free throws in 27 minutes.

“I had a bug. It’s finally starting to clear up,” said Aldrich, who was not himself the past four weeks or so. “I feel my health was holding me back.”

He said he was aware he was challenging for the second official triple-double in KU history. He had one against Dayton in last year’s NCAA Tournament.

“I knew I had quite a few blocks the first half (five),” he said. “I come in with the same mind-set every game, to try to hold the paint down by rebounding and blocking shots.”

Marcus Morris led the way with 14 points on a day KU had two double-digit scorers.

Next up is Saturday’s nonconference clash at Temple. Tipoff for the game against the Owls is 4:30 p.m. Central Time at Liacouras Center in Philadelphia.


melrank 10 years, 8 months ago

“We had a size advantage, and I have a guy coming out of the game saying, ‘Coach, I am not that big,’ and I’m saying, ‘It’s Belmont. They aren’t either,’” Self said, not identifying the player.

Does anyone know FOR SURE who Coach is referring to?

rockchalk80 10 years, 8 months ago

westtexjayhawk says... Sherron.

LOL re: "official" triple double... Wonder how many triple doubles for Wilt? "unofficially" of course...

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago

Sneaky stupid. A phrase an old colleague used to use for when one made a mistake and benefitted from it. Shoe. Fit.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

Well, this game was a story of two halves, but this was the most frustrating 30 point win I've witnessed in a long time. Credit Belmont for a great game because they never quit. They have an experienced team and should challenge for that conference championship for the right to play in the NCAA Tournament come March. Here are my notes:

Defense: The first half was the worst defensive effort I've seen out of the Jayhawks this season. The first 3 minutes were great as KU jumped out to an early 12-3 lead, but I think KU put it in "Cruise" mode a little too early. I've never seen the Jayhawks so out of position scrambling to chase guys around the court. Credit Belmont because they moved the ball well and their "Bigs" were setting great screens to free open their 3 point shooters (They had wide open looks).

           To me the problem lies with "Cheating".  I think the guards were cheating way too much and got caught when their man was running off a great set of screens in the paint area (Their guards were simply crossing one another from one side to the other in the paint area).   Belmont shot the ball great (5-12 in the first half from 3), but KU's rotation was lackadasical and lazy and showed true signs of gambling tonight (Bad Idea to gamble).

          It wasn't like this the whole game as KU came out strong in the second half and held Belmont scoreless the first 4.5 minutes.  However, the first substitution pattern once again caused a break in the "Flow" and defensive assignments were missed once again.  The second half was much better, but that intensity by all the players the first 5 minutes needed to be displayed for the entire 40 minutes.

Offense: Offensively I thought the very first possession of the game was fantastic as KU moved the ball around for 31 seconds of the shot clock until Tyshawn Taylor drove and the Belmont player fouled him on the floor. The ensuing in-bounds we tried a very stupid lob-pass from Sherron to Tyshawn Taylor that went flying over his head and out of bounds. Besides getting up 12-3 at the start the offesne was very sluggish and lacked ball movement. I think KU had a serious dose of Temple frenzy in their minds tonight.

         The stat that really struck me was the fact that Belmont had more turnovers in the first half, but had more points of turnovers than KU (12 to 9 in favor of Belmont).  What that means to me is that KU is not capitalizing when the most opportune time to score presents itself.  Guys need to quit trying to make the spectacular play and just score the damn to points on fast break.  KU's fast break opportunities were terrible tonight.  They did get better in the second half as the hawks did play better in the second half.  KU has missed quite a few Ally-Opps the last few games so I think it's time to make the smart play rather than the highlight reel.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

Cole Aldrich: Defensively, there is nobody in the country you want on your team more so than Aldrich. He is playing great defensively and tonight was no different as he had 14 rebounds and 6 blocks. Offensively, I thought Aldrich was fine and just had a lot on his mind, but tonight made me start to question that way of thinking. I saw three times tonight where Aldrich received a great pass and all he had to do was take it up strong. However, he is doing something very simple that is causing him problems.

              When he is open and he drops to pivot, he is taking another half second to "Gather" himself (Bending down further than he needs to get his balance) and get in control before he makes his move.  Unfortuantely, this delay and dipping motion he is exhibiting is causing the defense to catch back up to him and force him into problematic spots under the basket. He is being forced under the basket and is dribbling even further under the basket than he needs to. He needs to stop going to the other side of the basket when all he should have done was dunk the ball from the side in which he started.   I am convinced that his lower body isn't strong enough and he isn't quite athletic enough to make that move without gathering himself. I am fine with all of this as long as we all know what we're getting with Cole.  I think NBA GM's are taking notice of this "Flaw" as well.

              Finally, he is causing too many turnovers from the double team once again.  He just needs to slow down and take his time when passing out of it.  He got himself into trouble by rushing his offensive moves tonight.  Just let the game come to you since you're going to get double teamed.  Accept it and get your defensive stats.

Marcus Morris: Another fantastic game by Marcus. He is really producing when he needs to while Aldrich is getting all the focus. Can't fault a guy who shoots 6-7 from the field. Again, I would like to see 8-11 shot attempts from Marcus, but that is nitpicking at the moment. Marcus was a little non-existent on the glass, but that could be due to 28 3 point attempts by Belmont (Long rebounds as Ku's guards had a lot of rebounds).Great game Marcus!

Markieff Morris: I don't think Kieff was ready to play tonight. I couldn't quite tell, but I am assuming it was Kieff who shot that rocket off the backboard when he was wide open from 13 feet in the middle of that zone? I am ready for the day when Kieff and Marcus have good games together. Kieff will be ready for Temple

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

Sherron Collins: Sherron is definitely playing within himself. He is definitely letting his teammates "Catch-up" to his speed and giving them the spotlight at the moment. Kudos to Collins. I would like to see a little bit of a mixture of last year's Collins and tonight's game Collins though. Tonight was too passive for my taste, but he does a fantastic job of coming off that high screen and popping that "J". It really is pretty to watch. Not worried about Collins as usual.

Xavier Henry: I know X is calm and relaxed, but I want to see some damn fire out of this kid. He kind of has that Rush syndrome in his game and it kind of is driving me nuts. Man, His defense needs work. He is a very slow footed individual defensively. We all know he has a pretty decent offensive game, but the NBA GM's want to see if he can defend and at the moment he isn't getting that job done. X is still a little careless with the ball as that turnover in the first half led to him sitting more than 6 minutes in the first half. LOL!

Tyshawn Taylor: I didn't have volume to my game, but did he lose sight of which was he was suppose to be going in the first half? LOL! His scattered brain reflects sometime of his decision making on the court. Taylor has gotten a lot better over the last 5 games so I don't want to be too critical. He is adjusting to his role more and more every game. That pull up "J" in transition was nice.

Thomas Robinson: I know Robinson wants more minutes, but he's got to focus and work on his game a little more. He got beat several times on the defensive end. He is still trying to adjust to the speed of the game. Robinson had a wide open lay-up, but he turned the wrong way. He was on the block with the guy on his left shoulder up above him and instead of drop stepping over his right shoulder for a dunk or a left handed lay-up he tried to spin right right into the defender which lead to him passing to the top of the key. He'll kick himself when he watches tape of that play tomorrow in practice. Robinson will get it, but he just needs more experience so he can slow down.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

Elijah, Reed, and Morningstar: These 3 are fighting it out basically for 1 spot. I thought Morningstar played within himself nothing great and nothing bad, but just consistent as usual. Reed had a couple bonehead plays, knocked down a big shot and also played within himself. I like EJ a great deal and he played fantastic tonight with his limited time. He got beat on that backdoor, but other than that I thought his defense intensity was spectacular. I know scoring is natural for EJ, but I get concerned down the road when KU needs a big bucket from the perimeter. I don't know if EJ can provide that like Reed or Morningstar can, but EJ also brings some things to the table that Morningstar and Reed don't have athletically. It's a tough call Self is going to have with these 3.

CJ: I can't tell if it is just his demeanor on the court or if it's his attitude that rubs me the wrong way. I haven't seen enough of CJ to get a good feel, but I'm leaning towards the attitude part of it at the moment. It seems like to me that he has this "chip" on his shoulder in a negative way that he should be getting more minutes than he is receiving. I could be completely wrong, but that is my take at the moment.
As for the game, I thought he played very well. Defensively he was all over the place and I thought KU played very well when he was in the game. He forced turnovers and got the pace of the game to KU's liking. You can go ahead and throw CJ into the Morningstar, Reed, EJ mix on who should be getting playing time.

Jeff Withey: I know it was his frist game, but he is raw. Watching Withey makes you appreciate the things that Aldrich does for KU on the defensive side of the ball. Withey has a long way to go to get into game shape and also experience. He had a nice dunk, but rushed his first shot attempt in a KU uniform. He got impatient and chucked up there instead of passing out of the double team. Did you see that Cole? LOL!

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

I wrote that last night, but I have found out that the Tyshawn Taylor moment that confused me from above was indeed miscommunication from the bench and a result of playing 4 on 5. LOL! It was an awkward moment on TV because I didn't have volume and was completely confused. I now understand the true story. LOL!

Ron Franklin 10 years, 8 months ago

this team reminds me of a bored feline toying with his prey because he can.

Robert Brock 10 years, 8 months ago

It's up to the defense; it doesn't appear that an offense has been installed.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 8 months ago

KU 76 Temple 66 .. but I will come back to player I think is our key this season. EJ. Please someone tell me how Reed is a better option than EJ. It may be the team D concept that Reed seems to handle well, but I can't see any other phase of the game where Reed is better. And although Taylor has done better since EJ started those two games, I personally would bank on EJ being the better player come March if he played 25 minutes per game.

kushaw - I agree on EJ, obviously. But on CJ, be careful not to judge based on a player's normal facial expression. Meaning I think some folks, just by how they look, look lazy, look mad, or look like they have a "chip on the shoulder" like you said. And I saw you acknowledged you may be wrong. That being said, you may be right. I agree with you .. that's how he looks. I sometimes try to pick out players who may be locker room issues. For example, with the Royals, it's easy to see Jose Guillen is no perfect teammate just by his reactions and body language. To me, for college hoops, you look at them while they're on the bench. How they react to team success, or are they caught up in the fact they aren't playing. I've only been to two games this season, and didn't see CJ cheering in the same manner as say EJ, or Releford, etc., but saw a flash to bench a game ago and he was up and into it. Some of it may just be personality not attitude. CJ's also, what, 23 years old? Tough call, speculation, but worth watching. My bet is he's just fine. And I really like his game .. not sure Reed is really better than him, either.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 8 months ago

2009-2010 Rotation: 1 Senior, 3 Juniors, 3 Sophs, 2 Frosh..eventual next 3 guys off the bench [EJ, CJ and Jeff]-all 1st year players. Kansas has one of the youngest rotations in America.

2010-2011 Rotation [Assuming Condor, X and Sherron are gone], 3 Seniors, 3 Juniors,a whole bunch of Sophs with a ton of experience and Woolridge and Knight/Selby. Kansas has one of the most experienced rotations in America.

2009/2020 Pitfalls: the terrible "T's" Texas, Temple, Tennessee, at Misery & KSU, blowing some game they shouldn't, losing in the worthless Big Twelve Tourney.

Lose none, lose 7 or lose somewhere in between.....bottom line "KEEP A FRIGGIN NUMBER ONE SEED!!"

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago


Always the sensible one. You must be an older brother, right? :-)

I seek to run the table.

But...keeping one's eye on the Number 1 seed is the best advice.

BrianandKati Robertson 10 years, 8 months ago

I think SOOBAWL and other negative fans are just spoiled. Obviously the boys are playing up to their potential but how can they with playing inferior opponents. And as we know from the past with Self, he uses the non-conference as an experiemental "melting pot". He experiments with different lineups and mixes and matches players to get a feel for what he has. It's hard to get consistent play when he does this, but at the same time it has to be done.You know that when conference play beggins he will settle into his 8 man rotation like he does every year and thats when we will see the chemistry with this team that is now lacking! Trust me it will come just be patient. They are 12-0 winning by a margin of 30 and we are only going to get better cuz the upside with this team is limitless!! What more do we want or should expect at this point?!

BrianandKati Robertson 10 years, 8 months ago

KU beats Temple by 10...... First statement game of the year! They are tired of hearing about themselves underacheiving and quite frankly so am I! The DRAGON will be slayed!!!!!

Joshua Hann 10 years, 8 months ago

I played a year of college basketball at a small NAIA school and our coach was so upset that he made us play about 12 minutes of the second half of a game with only four was embarrassing but we held our own pretty well....

Steve Brown 10 years, 8 months ago

“I had a bug. It’s finally starting to clear up,” said Aldrich, who was not himself the past four weeks or so. “I feel my health was holding me back.” is he on antibiotcs. can't diagnose from afar and w.out MD degree, yet beginning to wonder if last year, face smash for CA, (recall the mask) sent a small bone chip into sinus cavity which would def. create a ying/yang on/off infection hard to diagnose and hard to see...that would flare up, then recede when on the meds. C ENT + allergist if not already, keep asthma under control. glad you are better.

Twins rock: much improved this year, will be fun to study at Philly- Temple. Will they play to home town fans & highlight reel or man up and play to the master HCBS plan. we'll see.

VegasJhawk09 10 years, 8 months ago

They are gonna have to play aloooooooot better than that against Temple to beat em on their home court!! I bet the Twins will be super Jazzed for this one though. Plus, lets face it people, HCBS is going to be kicking the crap out of those guys for this game. They will be ultra ready for Temple. I predict a 7 point win at Temple. 62-56. Marcus and Keiff and Cole leading the way.

Steve Brown 10 years, 8 months ago

SC: you are the master, teacher, and play in yourself to allow mates to grow, learn, expand, make mistakes and grow. You could take over any game, yet last night was key example you hold back, step up when needed, and help the growth of the TEAM, I admire you so much grasshopper, sorry I was blind before. You define mentor, brother, leader, keep watching them, encourage them bring them along, they need you & your approval. Tests will come, as you know, they haven't faced the dragon yet, get behind, 3 minutes left, they will look to you, thanks for you being the rock.

stand firm and lead them, it's your destiny Mr. Competitor:

jcsmith 10 years, 8 months ago

does anyone think we are not displaying our true talent so as to not let others prepare for us yet? Do you think they are "holding back" until conference starts? This only crosses my mind because we have been so damn slow this year. What happened to the fast paste games where Kansas pushes the ball for an entire 40 minutes? What happened to the smothering defense that Kansas puts on the opponent and causes turnovers 1 out of every 4 possessions? It just seems a little to controlled to really be as bad as we are playing. Just wonder if its all part of someones game plan.

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago

Wednesday Elucidating "Why Do I Play Thee, Glue Guy? Let Me Count the Ways:"

Questions recur about why this or that player plays for Self, while another who "looks as good or better" plays less, or only sparingly.

Currently many are asking this in regards to The Prophet.

Last year, many asked this regarding Travis Releford.

I analyse and question a lot of things. I even speculate on which player is likely to emerge from the pine over time, but I never ask why Self is playing one more than another at a particular time, because I think the answer is usually obvious and in the big picture two-fold.

The First Fold is: the best impact player gets to play most, but there are situations when a second string impact player, an impact player in waiting, if you will, may get a shot occasionally, because of a special match up advantage.

The First Fold is not what most board rats debate about. It is pretty clear why Self chooses one impact player over another. Cole now is way better than Withey now. Sherron now is quite a bit better than C.J. now. Xavier is an impact player and Brady is glue with a gun. An impact player ready to play now trumps a glue guy every time. Tyshawn is an impact player (though this year he is mostly being asked to be glue) and Tyrel is glue with a gun, and The Prophet is an impact player in waiting. Tyshawn, despite his annoying softness, gets the starts and most minutes, except when being chastised for not giving Self the assist:TO ratio he wants, and only then against cupcakes.

The Second Fold is: Among the glue guys, Self plays the glue player most who is most likely to give his impact players the most chances to make impacts.

Hold the distinction between impact and glue firmly in mind as the discussion proceeds.

An impact player is judged largely on what impacts he can make knowing he brings some costs. Self loves low cost impact players, but he knows in Eddie/Bill Ball

A glue guy is judged largely on how many costs he avoids, and on how well he facilitates impact players.

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago

Self's criteria for this judgment are probably many and some are probably subtle to the layman's eye.

Self actually makes pretty clear what he is looking for in his glue guys. Glue Guy A has to defend in ways that require less of the impact players than Glue Guy B would trigger. Glue Guy A needs to be able to spot-up shoot from trey to stretch the defense, so impact players can create without getting double teamed. Glue Guy A absolutely, positively needs to make fewer TOs than Glue Guy B. Strips are nice, but low TOs trump strips. Why? Strips happen when you don't have the ball yet and, while stops are nice, a lot can happen on the way down the floor. TOs happen when you already have the ball much closer to the rim, usually just a pass away from an impact player ready to impact. A strip is getting something you might convert. A TO is throwing away a certain chance of an impact player doing his thing. Thus, in weighing glue guys, TOs are moral evils, whereas strips are appreciated, but not crucial virtues. Strips are icing. Low TOs are meat and potatoes. Glue guys also have to hit free throws, so they are not fouled to keep the ball out of the hands of the impact players. The criteria go on and on.

In the cases of The Prophet, this year, and Releford, last year, some board rats are confusing the fact that The Prophet and Travis are destined to be good impact players, but are not yet dependable enough to be made impact players, on the one hand, they are not as low cost, and as adroit at enabling impact players as those playing ahead of them.

An impact player is not necessarily a good glue player.

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago

When posters are watching The Prophet, what they are often seeing is an impact player in waiting that does all of the basics like running, jumping, dribbling, maybe even on-ball defense and rebounding, as well, as the proven glue guys. He looks terrific. He doesn't have to labor near as much as Brady, or Tyrel, to get to a spot on the floor, or to stay with a guy he's defending. But he does get burned more often on defense a lot more than Brady and so requires more help from the impact players. And while he gets assists, he is not keeping the ball moving as much as Brady. And he's shooting a way poorer trey percentage than Brady. And if you watch The Prophet closely on defense he is not doing the little things that Brady does. Brady not only guards his man, and helps quickly, but he also does little things like proactively get out of the way for teammates to make it easier to stay with their men. I saw Brady do this a bunch of times against Belmont and each time it was the difference between his team mate being in good defensive position to contain the opponent, and being out of position. Watch Xavier and EJ and even Tyshawn, and to a lesser extent Tyrel. All these guys are laboring so hard on defense to guard their own man and being prepared to take over in a switch, that they are not able to think of simply getting out of a teammates way to help him get to another spot on the floor in a more timely way. This is a huge, but subtle contribution to team defense. What Brady has in this regard is probably as unteachable as jumping. Tyrel can't really do it. He's not quick enough either afoot, or with a broad enough defensive focus to sense how he can make life easier for his fellow defenders. He tries. Tyshawn now tries. But Brady just does it non stop. He's a virtuoso at getting out of the way. Half the time, his teammates don't even realize he is getting out of the way. But when they watch the tapes, it shows up big time to teammates and coaches. Xavier and the Prophet? They aren't even far enough along to try to do this, much less do it consistently. Why is it so hard to do? Because if most guys give up concentration on what they are doing and think about what their teammates need, their concentration becomes too divided even to do their job well.

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago

All of this is not to say that Brady is a savior. He isn't. He's just a good basketball player with a glue level of physical tools.

But there are probably a dozen subtle things Coach Self judges when he gives The Prophet fewer minutes than Brady, a dozen ways The Prophet could make it less likely that he will enable the impact players to make more impacts, than Brady.

Now, clearly, The Prophet has game and the kind of emotional IQ to speed learning of whatever Self directs him to learn. And the Prophet could eclipse Brady this year, because the Prophet does have impact play in his bones and Self always wants more impact players on the floor rather than less. But Self is making clear that this year, The Prophet's impact play is icing he cannot use much until The Prophet's glue cake is fully baked.

Most persons can only thing about one thing at a time.

Some persons can think of two.

Almost none can think of three.

Only virtuosos can weigh and judge lots of variables simultaneously.

Self is a virtuouso.

He appears to me to track tons of variables on the glue guys especially.

In fact, this facility of his is probably worth a lot more regarding the glue guys.

Most layman can recognize the impact players and which are most advanced in development.

It takes a very heady analyst to recognize, track, and correctly judge not only all the variables, but the way they feed into any particular constellation of impact players.

Why do I play thee, glue guy, Coach Self might say, let me count the ways.

Ron Franklin 10 years, 8 months ago


I have refrained from posting this (as I try to remain positive), but your continuous "pro EJ" rant has become very tiring. You may be right. He may be the key to our success.

2 weeks ago Self said EJ doesn't deserve to be out there yet. Enough said.

Self watches these kids everyday in practice. I wonder, HighElite, have You seen EJ play any more minutes than the game-time minutes the rest of us have seen?

If not, who would have the greatest advantage to judging one's talent? The coach who spends everyday in practice with him, or us?

kennethst 10 years, 8 months ago

"Yuck it up"???

No.....sorry.....but you can't "yuck it up" and win by 30.......not possible.

Sure......they could have played better and was not their best effort.

But come on......we won by 30!!!!

Let's stay in the real world....ok?

MGJayhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

In my opinion, we have historically played better, and looked like a true champion when we weren not ranked #1 in the Nation. I think Texas or UK should pass us up after this week and then we'll get back to our old "self". We need to see some failure before this team can truly succeed. It's early enough that it shouldn't hurt our overall seeding in Big 12 or NCAA tourney. Just my opinion.

ginger2015 10 years, 8 months ago

BlownJay and Kennethst, you are voices of reason.

wnewell 10 years, 8 months ago

Is it possible that the team could take more insult to losing the number one spot to say texas or whomever and put the chip on the shoulder or the fire in the belly that he 07/08 team had?

Tony Bandle 10 years, 8 months ago

God, must be psychic. I am the oldest of five brothers. Two also graduated Jayhawks. The other two??...well, I love them anyway.

VegasJhawk09...I hope your not an accountant.."7 point victory, 62-56" [or in Vegas does the House always get a point?] :}

RoyalJayHwk...that must have been literally a "four corners offense"!!!

Soobawls..thanks for the splash of cold water. Please, please, please tell us that your life is a lot happier outside of this website!

Jack Wilson 10 years, 8 months ago

Blownjay: You are correct. First, I'm tired of me posting pro Elijah stuff, too. It's hard to stop. My wife has asked why I mumble EJ in my sleep .. I told her it had nothing to do with our neighbor named Ellie. Second, Bill Self is the best judge of KU talent. I agree. I completely trust his judgment. However, his approach to prepping for the tournament is not infallible .. see Bucknell and Bradley. And remember, we were one open three pointer against Davidson away from being done (against a way inferior team). Any criticisms or what ifs are nit-picky, I admit. He's got the ring, but that doesn't mean another approach might not be better or at least be considered. I think some simply believe that because Self sees practice, that is a rubber stamp to it being the right thing. But I see it the other way. I think too many times coaches form their opinions based primarily on what they see in practice as opposed to when it really counts, in games. Not saying that is the case with EJ. And usually, your best practice players are your best game players, but not always.

My position on EJ is based on what I have seen in games. I have seen a guy that's just plain better than Reed. Have you not seen a guy that is great handling the ball, a solid shooter, good rebounder for a guard, great taking it to the hoop, a good head-up defender? Tell me what you have seen .. and not simply as a yes-man because Self has played Reed more. Tell me based on what you've seen how Reed is better than EJ?

Second, my EJ love is based a bit on coach Self putting him in the starting lineup. That seemed to validate what I had seen. Why not start Reed? I think everyone believes Self started EJ to kick start Taylor (that was obvious), and starting Reed wouldn't have done that. EJ is the real threat to Taylor's playing time and that caught his attention. Reed starting wouldn't have.

I just would prefer that we not play certain players, such as Jeff Hawkins in 05-06, simply because they have tenure. My preference, which may be different that Self's, is to give the player with the obviously better upside the minutes now (even if it meant a loss or two) so they have the best chance of being ready come tournament time. Does anyone disagree that EJ has twice the upside as Reed, and potentially Mario-like upside?

With that, perhaps I will give the EJ stuff a break .. maybe.

kennethst 10 years, 8 months ago

Ginger2015 & Jaybate

Thanks. I'm a huge KU fan......but sometimes these crazy expectations are just too much and frankly unhealthy.

We can't expect KU to dominate every game. In fact.....I expect us to lose 5 or 6 games. But I also think we have a great shot at the title.

And if we can "yuck it up" and still win by 30.....I'll take that any day!!

SCHNBALL 10 years, 8 months ago

Helite, could not agree more about giving early time to the guys with more potential. I think we have lost time with Ej and more importantly in my opinion, T Robinson. TRob must step up for this team to make a deep deep run in the tourny. Just glad the preseason is over, now we get to see where we really stand, can't wait for the next 2 of out 3 games. I also listened to Self's comments about the lack of toughness, just can't imagine why they have this problem, with his ability to sit anyone at anytime with all of this talent?

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

"And remember, we were one open three pointer against Davidson away from being done (against a way inferior team)".

Sombody is going to have to help me here because I get tired of having debates like this. I need somebody to point out where I am completely wrong in my thinking. Why was Davidson such an Inferior opponent in 2008? I don't get it and I don't understand it. I currently live in Davidson and at the time in 2008 I lived about 8 miles from Davidson. I have season tickets to the Davidson games, but if their was one team nobody wanted to play in 2008, it was the Davidson Wildcats.

What truly causes this type of thinking? Is it because Kansas is well Kansas (Invinceable). LOL! Is it because Kansas resides in a "BCS" conference? What is it? Why does Davidson get slapped around and shoved to the curb? Davidson played one heck of a schedule that year and played UCLA, UNC, Duke, KU, Maryland, Georgetown, Wisconsin, and NC State better than anybody . Is it because they have "Davidson" across their chests?

College basketball fans are going to have to accept that their are going to be "Great" teams out there that people least expect. Give those schools their due! It could be Valprasio, George Mason, Davidson, Gonzaga, Wichita State, Siena, Bucknell, Holy Cross, Temple, Oral Roberts, Richmond or the Cornell's of the world.

Some of these schools may not be "Great" every year, but they try to "Reload" just like the big boys, it's just that their "Timeframe" is different than the big boys. A lot of the smaller schools "Reload" for that team every 3 and 4 years while the Big Boys "Reload" every year. It's just the way it is.

I just hope people give Cornell their credit because they are one heck of a team and a lot better than the Belmont team the Jayhawks just beat.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

I think the proper statement should have been, "KU was a significant more athletic squad than the Davidson Wildcats". However, sports proves that just being athletic can only get you so far. Davidson was a great team that utilized different components of the game to do well and succeed. That is what is beautiful about the NCAA tournament and "Way Inferior opponents like the great teams of Davidson". That was a little sarcasm in case nobody caught that.

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago


Its a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.


Jack Wilson 10 years, 8 months ago

schnball: With you on Robinson, as well. I see the Morrises, though, as being in the ballpark with Robinson on talent/performance, where I don't see that with Reed and, well, you know who.

On Davidson, come on. Sorry for hitting a sore spot with KUShaw. But Davidson had one player worth a darn. Davidson was a well coached, inferior squad, and was way inferior in my opinion (meaning a 10 - 15 point margin inferior) to KU.

Kushaw's statement: "College basketball fans are going to have to accept that their are going to be "Great" teams out there that people least expect. Give those schools their due! It could be Valprasio, George Mason, Davidson, Gonzaga, Wichita State, Siena, Bucknell, Holy Cross, Temple, Oral Roberts, Richmond or the Cornell's of the world."

Sorry, no great teams there .. ever. At least not since we saw black and white highlights. Great teams? For all the Gonzaga talk, and Temple, and MVC teams, etc., ONE has reached the final four .. George Mason. When it's just one, it's a fluke (and you might think Missouri could have "fluked" its way to at least one final four in its mediocre history, but I digress). And NONE have won a championship (again, in the color TV era). So I know that some of these small conference guys have a chip on their shoulders, but the chip's there for a reason.

Note: I capitalized ONE and NONE for emphasis.

Jangaroo 10 years, 8 months ago


I agree, while I think Davidson had some solid players other than curry, teams like that just can't win championships. Look at the teams that have won championships in the one and done era. They all have multiple draft pics in their line up. However, this doesn't mean a team like Davidson can't beat a KU. It just means that its unlikely and its almost impossible to do it multiple times during the tournament. Lets say that the three pointer against KU, which was challenged from 26 feet away, goes in. There is no way Davidson would have gone on to beat North Carolina and Memphis. I know there are so many things that make a championships team but without talent those things fall short.

FairgroveJayhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

lighthawk - unique point of view. I would assume a different approach. I would be willing to lay all the marbles on the following precise and logical string of events that has led to Cole suffering from a two month "bug".

An international student saw a "huge white dude that rooks like Cole" slip on the morning dew outside the towers, nearly falling. In this process his body entered into a reflexogenic flexionextension synergistic pattern, that stretched/relaxed the ligamentum flavum causing extreme and pulsating neural tension. The neural tension caused spontaneous and continuous, alternating bilateral sternocleidomastoid muscular contractions. Although the alternating bilateral sternocleidomastoid syndrome was short lived, three nostril hairs were inadvertently braided leading to prolonged nocturnal sinus drainage with subsequent upper respiratory distress. A short bout of Tourette’s was also reported. I believe Cole has recently picked his nose enough to dislodge the braided hairs and free up his symptoms.

It's just a theory. I'm really glad he's playing better:)

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

Wow! I am perplexed and shocked at some of the responses.

"I agree, while I think Davidson had some solid players other than curry, teams like that just can't win championships. Look at the teams that have won championships in the one and done era. They all have multiple draft pics in their line up. However, this doesn't mean a team like Davidson can't beat a KU. It just means that its unlikely and its almost impossible to do it multiple times during the tournament. Lets say that the three pointer against KU, which was challenged from 26 feet away, goes in. There is no way Davidson would have gone on to beat North Carolina and Memphis. I know there are so many things that make a championships team but without talent those things fall short."

Davidson had no chance of beating UNC or Memphis? Huh? Davidson lost to UNC by 4 on a Neutral Court in Charlotte earlier in the year in 2008 and was up 1 with two minutes to play. What about UCLA, the other Final 4 participate that year? Davidson was up 18 points in Pauley that year against the Bruins before losing on an impressive comeback by the Bruins.

Am I hearing that you can only have 4 "Great" teams a year? Is the Final 4 our deciding factor on who gets deemed the "Great" team title award? Davidson didn't have a great team because they lost in the Elite 8 by two against the National Champs. Davidson's 2008 resume speaks for itself. They played the schedule that they did that year because they had a great team and wanted to prepare for the NCAA tournament. The same can be said for Siena this year. What about New Mexico?

"I believe the "parity" between mid-majors and hi-majors in college basketball exists mainly because of the unintentional david vs goliath complex that officials have. It's a 6 or 7-on-5 handicap for high "elite" majors in the opening rounds."

Really? You're making excuses for Duke because of the officials? Did I really just hear that? Officials? Also that wasn't a number 1 seeded Duke........It was a #2 seeded Duke in 2008 playing the #15 seed in Belmont.

I think what it boils down to is the complete "Homerism" of a BCS school in a BCS conference and what name we deem "Important" because of what is written across the front of the Jersey. I think it is a complete shame.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

Also, one thing to note is that Curry was not the only player on that Davidson squad. They had 3 seniors in Richards (Point Guard), Sanders (Post), and Gosselin (Guard) that were sorely missed by Curry and company in last years campaign? Their NIT berth last year is indicative of that result.

My goal is not to focus on Davidson, but Davidson seems to be the most recent and the most competitive in which KU has had recent history with. What about all those Tulsa squads that Tubby Smith and Bill Self coached? They each went to an Elite 8 game with two different Tulsa squads.

I guess my point is that you don't necessarily have to have recognizeable names or well known individuals in order to succeed in the OAD era with a SUCCESSFUL TEAM. Mostly Mid-Majors and Smaller fall into this category.

Jangaroo 10 years, 8 months ago


I'm talking about Championships and the ability for mid majors to win them. Look it up. Every NC team in the last 8 years has had multiple players go on to play in the NBA. You sited three losses by Davidson that were spread out over the year. In 2008 no mid major could line up against KU, North Carolina and UCLA all in a row and survie. I agree that we shouldn't be surprised when a mid major makes noise but unfortunately you have to win games, not come close to win championships.

bradynsdad 10 years, 8 months ago

wow am i the only one who scrolls right past jaybate and kushaw. i dont have all day to read, a couple lines will do.

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago

What you need to win a ring is so hard to come by, it is not surprising it takes a big money program to win a ring.

You've got to have a top coach that attracts top talent and can get the most out of it; that runs about $3-5M/year these days

You've got to have great facilties to attract great talent; that's tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in clumps and big annual interest payments.

You've got to have 3 nightly match-up advantages, and preferrably 4--guys likely to stick in the NBA, with one or two of them guys who play a lot in the pros.

You've got to have 4 bigs, 3 who can rotate play against all competition, and 1 who can play situationally.

You've got to have great team speed and guys who can also muscle.

You've got to have 2-3 subs that can defend and shoot the trey.

You've got to have a Chancellor and AD and alumni base that is on the same page.

You've got to have some really good assistant coaches that can communicate and teach and recruit in every kind of community in the USA.

You've got to have coaches and wives that are not cheating on each other during the long periods apart and leading to coaches that can't perform and kids disillusioned by their role models.

You've got to know the NCAA rules frontwards and backwards.

You've got to have a local media that wants to help you, but not lie for you.

You've got to have a Chancellor, AD, and coaches that know the difference between a college maturation problem and something serious.

You gotta have coaches who care, and try to do the best for the players and the school even though they know they could be unfairly sacrificed and fired at any moment.

You gotta get lucky in the tournament, not get sick, or injured, and have your off shooting nights on the night you play teams you can beat while shooting poorly.

And sometimes ya gotta believe when it doesn't seem like there is any reason left to believe.

Is it any wonder that so many programs can't do it

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

Jangaroo: Now we are getting somewhere! I want to get this right since we are only talking about "Championships"! Based on what you said, is it fair for me to say that there have only been 5 "Great" teams in Kansas Basketball history because that is the number that have one Championships? Is that correct?

Is there only one "Great" team every year in college basketball? Or, are there only a handful of "Great" teams that you deem good enough to put into that category to be able to win that championship?

Was the 1991 undefeated UNLV team a "Great" team before or after they lost to Duke in the semi-finals by two points. What about the Ball State team that was leading that same 1991 UNLV team by 2 points with 35 seconds left in the sweet 16 yet ended up losing by 2 points.

I am just curious as what you deem and define as "Championships"?

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago


Has it ever occurred to you that you are not one of the folks we are posting in hopes of being read by? :-)

Glad you scoll down. Persons should only consume content that pleases them. There is no required reading on any thread.

Rock chalk!

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

Bradynsdad: The time that you spent on that irrevelant post....... maybe you could have built some dendrites by reading mine and Jaybates posts and then actually put forth a thought provoking post of your own. You should try it sometime. Hope this one wasn't too long for you to handle.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 8 months ago

"Have one Championships"? Jeez! I get going so fast that I can't put down the right "Won". Good Grief!

Don Everett 10 years, 8 months ago

re: "official" triple double... Wonder how many triple doubles for Wilt? "unofficially" of course...

Are you asking about basketball or ladies?!?!

Don Everett 10 years, 8 months ago

"wow am i the only one who scrolls right past jaybate and kushaw."

No, I also go right by them as well. Why waste my time on complete garbage.

FairgroveJayhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

jaybate- your criteria of needs to win a national championship is missing one "can't"

you can't have a kid named Brady playing more than 7.23 minutes a game :)

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago


Has it ever occurred to you that you are not one of the folks we are posting in hopes of being read by? :-)

Glad you scoll down. Persons should only consume content that pleases them. There is no required reading on any thread.

Of course, you betray your imbecility by calling what we write garbage. :-)

Rock chalk!

jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago


Yours is a fair POV, though I beg to disagree, as you might imagine. Further, it is expressed with amiable good nature, rather than contempt.

Happy New Years, to you your loved ones! You are a true Jayhawk.

Joe Baker 10 years, 8 months ago

We need to expose the inside game of Temple. I said it back when they were chanting "We want KU"

They have little to no real inside game. I see the bigs being huge in this game with the outside game stretching them to their limits. They will cave inside to help with our bigs. Our outside shooting must be consistent to free our bigs for some nice points in the paint.

Beat Temple!

Joe Baker 10 years, 8 months ago

Defensively, we need to agitate their shooters!!

Brady needs to jump into Fernandez's jockstrap and have a little defensive one on one session with his shot.


jaybate 10 years, 8 months ago


Super insight on KU-Memphis. RR locking down Rose for a half was as great of defensive job as has ever been done in the Finals.

FairgroveJayhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

Jaybate - I agree, with your disagree. I am a fan of Brady's consistent play.

~47 hours until the biggest challenge of the season. It's about time.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 8 months ago

Happy New Year, Jayhawk Nation! Dust off a place in AFH for the 2009-10 Championship Banner (with a little luck, of course--but mostly on talent)!!

UmbertoConforti 10 years, 8 months ago

I don't know what people expect, but KU looked super in the second half.

UmbertoConforti 10 years, 8 months ago

Are the posters who complain about Jaybate jealous because he knows so much?

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