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Realignment Today: 3:44 p.m. update — KU coach Bill Self chimes in on realignment; ACC expansion and more rumors from Big Ten country

3:44 p.m. Update:

Still working on a few things and waiting on a few calls to see if I can get some more info on all of this, but nearly all of the people I have talked to continue to point to the Big 12's comfort at 10 teams as a very real thing and something that does not put the conference in any danger.

Here's a column from Dennis Dodd of CBSSports.com that essentially spells out why. Most of it you've heard here, but it's still a good read.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/21177715/why-the-big-12-is-happy-with-10-amid-the-latest-round-of-realignment

Also, in case you didn't check out the audio from KU men's basketball coach Bill Self's news conference today, here's a look at some of Self's thoughts on the current state of conference realignment:

“Everybody thought it was pretty much status quo, and there’s one guy working behind the scenes that’s really good that has now changed the entire landscape of what’s going on, and that’s (Big Ten commissioner) Jim Delany,” Self said. “With what he’s done with the Big Ten, it’s now caused a trickle down.”

“The SEC is going to poach somebody now,” Self said. “They’re going to go to 16. The ACC is going to have 16. But, the SEC may poach the ACC, so now that’s going to screw that number up. So where are we on this stuff? I don’t know that we could be on more solid footing right now,” Self said. “With the situation with the SEC and the Big 12 in football, the alliance, the new television deal, we are in great shape. I don’t think there’s any need to rush to do anything.”

“I think with the movement that’s going on, the landscape will change and feelings will change,” Self said. “Now maybe the way we thought it was isn’t exactly the way it could be two or three, five years from now.”

Stay tuned...

9:51 a.m. Update:

Here's a nice assessment of things from Matt Hayes, of the Sporting News, who spells out more clearly what the result of the ACC's lawsuit against Maryland (for full payment of the $50 million exit fee) could mean for the future of the ACC and the future of expansion and realignment.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/feed/2012-08/firstand10/story/college-football-realignment-maryland-acc-50-million-buyout-sec-big-ten-pac-12

8:56 a.m. Update:

As expected, the ACC woke up bright and early this morning to vote to add Louisville starting in 2014. Here's a nice recap on the whole thing from ESPN.com's Brett McMurphy.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8685541/acc-votes-add-louisville-cardinals-source-says

It'll be interested to see where things go from here. Even though the move to grab Louisville would seem to indicate that the ACC is going to survive, it actually could wind up being a move that makes their situation more precarious, as the Big Ten, Big 12 and SEC all could see it as a sign that they should get going with their expansion plans (not that the Big Ten needs the nudge) which could lead all three to look toward other ACC schools as outlined below.

Now that this has become official, I'll do a little checking around to see if anyone in the Big 12 or at KU has any kind of reaction.

It's interesting, because people assumed for months that Louisville would jump at the chance to join the Big 12. And they probably would have. But, as I outline below, I don't think the Big 12 is crying over this one. If it truly wanted the Cardinals, it would've signed them up long before getting to this point.

I also thought this Tweet that just came through from ESPN's Joe Schad was pretty interesting:

ACC Presidents have agreement to disclose any contact from other conferences and source says it hasn't happened outside of Maryland — Joe Schad via Twitter

Doesn't mean much for the news from today, but could mean a lot moving forward if other leagues try to poach more ACC members.

Stay tuned...

Original Post, 11:49 p.m. CST 11/27

A couple of quick conference realignment notes to get your Wednesday morning started off right (or cap off your Tuesday night depending upon in which time zone you’re reading this).

First, let’s look at what’s new in the ACC, where news broke this week that the league officially has filed a lawsuit against Maryland requesting the entire $50 million buyout and, while that was going on, decided to call a meeting for Wednesday morning (Nov. 28, a.k.a. today) to talk about expansion.

If universities hopping three time zones and not batting an eye at multi-million dollar penalties to play in new leagues didn’t lead you to the conclusion that this whole thing’s a mess, maybe that last part will. You read it right. The most vulnerable of all the current BCS leagues, the one in danger of having the rest of its teams plucked away by the Big Ten, SEC and, yes, even the Big 12, is actually looking to expand.

Hey, they could be onto something and it may very well be the only way for the league to survive. Desperate times call for desperate measures, right?

Anyway, one of the hottest expansion targets for the suddenly scrambling ACC is Louisville. Louisville, you may recall, has long been rumored to be a potential target for the Big 12 should it choose to expand. Wonderful.

Here’s my take on the Louisville component. If the Big 12 wanted Louisville — and I mean truly wanted it, not just thought it would be a decent option if other parts fell into place — it would have signed them up by now. I’m not knocking the Ville or saying it would or would not be a good option for the Big 12. I’m simply saying that those who think the league would cry over losing out on Louisville may be mistaken.

Here’s an outstanding breakdown of what’s going on in the ACC at the moment. Although it’s clear from this report that there may be some serious movement here, the report also makes it clear that the potential additions of Navy, UConn, South Florida and Cincinnati, along with Louisville, hardly would represent a coup for the ACC. Survival, perhaps, but certainly nothing to celebrate with a parade or national holiday.

http://www.accsports.com/blogs/david-glenn/2012112714123/acc-will-vote-on-expansion-wednesday-morning.php

Evidently, today’s ACC conference call to discuss handing out official invitations is set for 7 a.m., so by the time many of you are reading this, things could be well on their way. Even if that’s the case, there’s still plenty of interesting stuff here and plenty to talk about.

Now, let’s look at things from the point of view of the anti-realignment crowd, the group that’s tired of all the moving and shaking and nonsense and just wishes this whole thing would come to an end once and for all.

After news hit that Maryland and Rutgers were leaving the ACC and Big East to join the Big Ten, Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott was asked how the move would impact the Pac-12. In short, he said it wouldn’t and he reaffirmed that stance this week by saying that recent expansion talks within the conference produced the same conclusion that the league came to toward the end of the last round — there is no need, at this time, for the Pac-12 to go beyond 12 schools and the league is happy with its current number.

Kind of sounds like another conference I know.

Anyway, here’s a report from Nov. 19 from Chris Dufresne of the L.A. Times, who details Scott’s thoughts.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-pac-12-expansion-20121119,0,768077.story

Finally, there’s more smoke coming from Big Ten land that the 14-team conference wants two more and has sent out feelers to Virginia, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Notre Dame and, yep, Kansas.

As I explained last week, it does not make any sense, at least not as things stand right now, for KU to leave the Big 12 for the Big Ten. As appealing as some things might be, the financial burden of leaving the Big 12 would cripple KU’s athletic department.

It would not surprise me at all if Jim Delany and the Big Ten became the first league to reach 16 teams. It also would not make me think any more highly of that league or what they have going on. Bigger, we’ve heard time and time again throughout this ordeal, is not always better.

If Delany gets there, look for Virginia and Georgia Tech to be the two teams he does it with, which only adds more meat to the argument that the ACC, though still in existence, is far from a thriving conference. Take Virginia and Tech away and you’re looking at an even less appealing league, with or without expansion.

So there you have it. The Big Ten and ACC are actively looking to expand, the Pac-12 and Big 12 appear content at 12 and 10 schools, respectively, and the SEC seems more concerned with hiring football coaches and seeing if it can make it seven straight BCS champions than adding new members. Don’t think for a second that all three of the quote/unquote quiet conferences in this have their eyes close right now. Heads are on swivels and activity is being tracked.

If we’ve learned anything through realignment it’s that things can move awfully quickly.

Stay tuned...

Comments

ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 4 months ago

I'll start by being the guy that hijacks the first post for my own agenda. Eh-hem...ok...here goes. Could you imagine Mizzou if we got an invite to the BIG?!?!?!

lama 2 years, 4 months ago

What is the status of the grant of rights? Has KU signed it -- and how many Big 12 schools have signed? Also, is such an onerous penalty enforceable? It seems no school has ever paid the full exit fee to a league (the Big 12 settled with the four schools that left).

Matt Tait 2 years, 4 months ago

As far as I've been told, everyone has signed it and stability and enforcement are the very reasons the Big 12 went this route instead of upping the exit penalty a la the ACC, which is now seeing that those things can be negotiated down much easier than a signed contract granting TV rights.

Kyle Sybesma 2 years, 4 months ago

Dollar wise? What would it take for KU to exit the Big 12?

Matt Tait 2 years, 4 months ago

As it stands now, they would have to forfeit the next 13 years of 1st and 2nd tier television rights, i.e. all of the TV revenue from networks such as FSN, ESPN, ABC, CBS, FOX, etc.

I can't do the math on that, but it would be a ton of money...

Daniel Kennamore 2 years, 4 months ago

Rough figure is about $20 million per year, so $260 million if forced to pay in full...which wouldn't happen.

Matt Tait 2 years, 4 months ago

Sounds about right... So let's say it's negotiated down (which I think is harder than you realize because the money is not actually there but a promise of future earnings) what's the best scenario? Half that? $150 mill?

No way KU can find/convince enough donors to foot the bill for that kind of loot.

Daniel Kennamore 2 years, 4 months ago

Mizzou and A&M both negotiated their fees down to just 41 percent of what was owed, so about $106 million. If the Big 10 gives us something similar as the deal they are giving Rutgers that isn't as astronomical as it seems. Not saying it wouldn't be rough for a few years but the long term benefits are far too great to ignore.

Matt Tait 2 years, 4 months ago

Right, but those were actual exit fees. This granting of TV rights is a completely different deal, and, as I mentioned before, the fact that it's more set in stone than an exit fee is the precise reason the Big 12 went that route: (a) to show commitment to the conference and (b) to make it harder for another school to bolt.

Big_Dipper 2 years, 4 months ago

If KU left the Big XII, why would the other schools leave? Without KU around, the other schools' chances of winning a conference championship in basketball would go up 1,000,000,000,000%!!!

Daniel Kennamore 2 years, 4 months ago

The B1G going up to 16 would cause the PAC and SEC to do the same. All of the old south schools (except maybe Tech and Baylor) would go to one or the other.

lama 2 years, 4 months ago

Thanks, Matt. KU will have to weigh the academic benefits of a potential move, too -- there are all sorts of research dollars that would become available in the Big 10. There are no academic/research benefits in the Big 12.

Matt Tait 2 years, 4 months ago

Very true. But academics is not playing the role that most would like to think/say in this whole thing...

Phil Leister 2 years, 4 months ago

What does the school's athletic conference have to do with research dollars that are available?

Ron Prichard 2 years, 4 months ago

I have no idea if your statement, "there are no academic/research benefits in the Big 12" is anywhere near accurate or valid. However, I would point out that with its recent designation as a National Cancer Institute hospital, KU Med is set to receive a significant (and I mean huge) increase in research dollars and national recognition. KU may have more research money options in the Big 10, but it isn't exactly floundering right now.

jhox 2 years, 4 months ago

I wonder what the Big 12 contract states in regard to multiple defections? If, say, four schools were to all bolt at once, what happens then? The Big 10 covets Texas, that's no secret. What if the Big 10 were to add Texas and Kansas, and at the same time the Pac 12 added OU and OSU? In other words, what if 4 schools left simultaneously? Surely the contract stipulates something like this. If X number of schools bolt, does the GOR become uninforcable?

I think that scenario is highly unlikely, but it is worth questioning. More likely is the ACC loses two more teams to the Big 10, and the Big 12 and SEC jump in and cherry picks FSU, Clemson, Duke, NC state, Syracuse and whoever else remains there of value (teams passed over by the Big 10, be it North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia Tech, or whomever.) Also, if the ACC folds it is likely ND would have to look long and hard at moving to a conference for all sports, including football.

I really believe if two more teams leave the ACC, things start to get very interesting for the Big 12 and SEC. I can't see those conferences standing pat if suddenly schools like that are looking for a home.

pepper_bar 2 years, 4 months ago

I asked about this under Matt's last realignment column. I don't think anyone ever answered. There has to be some number of defections that sparks dissolution and liquidated damages.

And I still maintain the GOR is unenforceable. I suspect any school that wanted to leave the Big XII would have to be offered some form of buyout in place of the long-term hostage remedy that the GOR requires. I can see a lawyer easily winning the argument that the GOR is against public policy, unconscionable in its severity, and inappropriate due to changing circumstances in the realignment wars.

Edit to add: Does the GOR place any burden on the Big XII to mitigate the damages it would incur if one of its institutions left? In other words, would the Big XII have to seek to expand or otherwise increase its TV revenues before penalizing a school for leaving?

Brian Skelly 2 years, 4 months ago

Look... its all Texas. We all know this. Everyone knows this. They and OU to some degree were the ones making the decisions that affect the rest of us. We can hate on it all we want -- and we do -- but its factual. When you see the numbers in $$$ / ratings / potential it's hard to argue that UT couldnt even do this own their own. So they get their cake and eat it too.

We can rise with the tide -- and one could argue that we have, or we can see what else is out there. At the time, it appears like nothing. The Big 10 idea sounds interesting... but not losing 13 years of TV money interesting. Short of knocking out that GOR issue I cant envision anything else happening there.

Im quite sure the Pac would love us over Tx Tech or OSU... but they might not get the big fish without bringing the minnows along. We're in an unbelievably precarious position in my estimation.

Problem is, theres not much to do about it. Other than hope we can trust Texas. So we've got that going for us... ehhh.

Kevin Huffman 2 years, 4 months ago

Yeah.....best case scenario is stay put and the conference adds a little higher quality pieces than TCU & WVU if there's another expansion for the conference.

jayhawkinnc 2 years, 4 months ago

All of this realignment stuff is crazy. No, wait....it's stupid. Once the trend started with Nebraska and Colorado bolting in 2010/2011, other schools and leagues said "hey, this is the cool thing to do....everybody's doing it!" This is all getting way out of control and unfortunately, the NCAA can't do a thing about it.

Kyle Sybesma 2 years, 4 months ago

If the B1G has expressed interest KU must explore that option. I know it would be difficult to leave the Big 12 with the new Assignment of Rights (or what ever it's called) but with the future B1G contract coming in 2017 that could pay out well over 20 million KU has to consider a move.

Ted Adams 2 years, 4 months ago

KU would lose every TV dollar coming too it until 2025. What athletic department do you know that can operate without any $$$ for 14 years? Not happening! Everyone needs to get that through their thick skulls.

Jeff Kilgore 2 years, 4 months ago

Unless it's unenforceable. That, and the question of your trust of OU and UT. You do remember that they had a one-night stand with the West Coast? If the Pac-12 decided to offer UT, they would be gone. They have that kind of money and prestige and it would put us immediately on par with the Big East, if that.

The Big 10 is academically superior to the Big 12, and even though it has been less competitive athletically in recent years, that can change at any time. Geographically, it's the most logical fit if the Big 12 gets poached, which, if you'll think with me here, has happened four times in two years and was on the verge of two or four more just a year ago. That is why we're all on this board.

Brian Skelly 2 years, 4 months ago

Matt --

Is there even any remote rumblings at all about Big 12 higher ups talking about expanding? It just seems like their sitting on their hands. I agree with the 'bigger' is always better idea to some degree. But so is your growing or dying. It would seem adding markets would make sense and yet we dont seem to have any rumblings like thats in the cards.

At some point, wont we simply run out of teams we could possibly add? My guess is Louisville is as much as a preventative strike as anything else by the ACC. Is FSU still even on the radar with this?

Matt Tait 2 years, 4 months ago

It's tough to say exactly what the thinking is right now. I know the thinking prior to the moves by Maryland, Rutgers and now the potential ACC move was to sit tight and not expand unless the new additions were home runs. That could change if things start moving and shaking too much, but I still believe the Big 12 would rather sit tight at 10 than add teams like South Florida and Navy a la the ACC...

Jeff Kilgore 2 years, 4 months ago

To its very real demise. We've been the poached--four times and nearly six or eight. Are they not thinking about that?

Thomas Young 2 years, 4 months ago

Once the Big 12 starts considering USF and Navy, they may as well shut their doors. That's the kind of stuff that pt nails in the big east's coffin.

It really was a good move for the ACC to lock up Louisville. Louisville was pretty much the smallest school the Big 12 was considering, and were trying everything they could do to land bigger schools instead.

SEsco10 2 years, 4 months ago

Please explain to KSU fans who read this (I know you KSU fans do) that KU is not linked to KSU like OU & OSU are.

How about we trade the nubs for ISU & call it good?

ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 4 months ago

You tell me what sounds better for the Kansas brand. Playing in: Chicago, New York, Indy, DC, Penn,

Or

Manhattan, Waco, Stillwater, Ames, Lubbock

A short term financial setback is nothing compared to the long term gains. Hopefully chancellor will step in over sheahorn and realize what is best for the university.

Matt Tait 2 years, 4 months ago

I don't disagree, but I'm not sure you can recover from kissing 13 years of TV revenue goodbye... That's a serious hit. KU could/would still make some TV money from the Big Ten Network (seeing how that's a third-tier set-up) but most of the games would still be televised by 1st- and 2nd-tier networks and therefore those dollars would go bye-bye.

Daniel Kennamore 2 years, 4 months ago

I'm completely certain that 13 years could be negotiated away down to a dollar amount the alums could pick up. KU could counter-sue (much like West Virginia did) the Big 12 for not acting in the conference's best interest instead doing what Texas and OU wanted.

Seriously, going to the Big Ten is a no brainer of a move that would lead to a century of conference and financial stability for KU.

Matt Tait 2 years, 4 months ago

Based on what I've been told by multiple Big 12 sources, your scenario isn't as clean and easy as it sounds.

Daniel Kennamore 2 years, 4 months ago

Didn't think it would be easy...just that the end result would be a negotiated fee just like everyone else that's moved.

Can you tell us what the general feel from the schools other than Texas and Oklahoma are about expansion? I'd have to think the Baylor and K-States of the conference would be pushing pretty hard for it.

Matt Tait 2 years, 4 months ago

From what I'm hearing, the league is unanimously comfortable with the 10-member lineup... Or at least was as of a couple weeks ago. If things are different today, they've changed in the past couple of weeks.

kueric 2 years, 4 months ago

Also it'd be much easier if someone else left first, THEN KU went to the B1G. That would make the 'not acting in our best interest' argument MUCH more applicable in court.
No reason to be the first to test this 13-years of TV money if we don't have to. Of course, it would be a disservice to not try and expand this year or next-and that non-action (over time) might be enough of 'not acting in the best interest', but 2-weeks isn't enough time to justifiably claim that.

kueric 2 years, 4 months ago

And Kansas actually is very, very high up the national list of how much money it currently makes from (only) it's tier 3 revenues. Which means it would stand to gain less incrementally from the B1G10 Network than all but a dozen or so schools.
So the massive loss of money in the Guarantee of Rights (or whatever its called) might not be made up as quickly as many seem to believe. I also find it sort of strange how many article commenters are pro-B1G 10, while the message board is largely anti-B1G.

ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 4 months ago

True, but tell me you don't get all warm and fuzzy inside when you think of KU being a BIG school! (FYI, so cool that you take time to discuss with the board rats. Thanks!)

Matt Tait 2 years, 4 months ago

It's not as appealing as the Pac-12 :-) Love the discussions. You guys are awesome!

ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 4 months ago

No one wants to see the LJW staff on the beach during Cali road games! There's not enough sunscreen for JN and TK is much more insulated for late november football in Wisconsin.

Ted Adams 2 years, 4 months ago

If KU were to move to another conference, how many schools in the new league would be seen as higher in the pecking order than KU? As it is right now with all athletics and academics considered, KU is only 2nd fiddle to one institution, and that's Texas. By the way, it's closer between KU and UT than KU and OU, who is probably a distant 3rd.

In another league, how many might have a heavier hand to play? In the B1G, Michigan, OSU, Penn St, Neb, the list goes on. I don't see any reason AT ALL to move to another league when we have a hell of a lot more influence in the current one. I believe a lot more than most think.

BleedCnB 2 years, 4 months ago

One would think that Texas and OU are going to want to re-evaluate the 10 team league. Heck not just Texas and OU, I would even toss K-State in there because of this year. I would imagine KU would also like to re-evaluate that being they had the hardest SOS this past season.

The way the conference schedule is now. It makes it really unlikely that a championship will come from a Big 12 team in the near future.

I don't like the idea of staying at 10 teams, yeah it's more money for each school but you also run the risk that even losing 1 school would put the league in peril. I think ultimately a 12 to 14 team league would be ideal.

Kyle Sybesma 2 years, 4 months ago

I agree. 10 teams leaves the Big 12 vulnerable. This whole thing will be done with four 16-team conferences. Five exist now with the strongest being the PAC 12, SEC and B1G. The ACC and Big 12 will have a face off of who will survive. Why put ourselves in a position to be a leftover with decisions being forced on us when we can control our destiny and be in a solid B1G?

Daniel Kennamore 2 years, 4 months ago

It's not secret that everybody but OU and Texas wanted to expand back to at least 12 last year. If they again don't after some prodding with the new shuffles it actually gives KU some legal wiggle-room to negotiate out of the 13 year grant of rights, imo.

Bville Hawk 2 years, 4 months ago

If KSU beats Baylor and Texas they are in the BCS title game. I don't know where you get your statement that it's unlikely that a national champion will come from the Big 12 in the near future.

ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 4 months ago

And don't you think are professors get sick of going to conference meetings and talking to Tilly who is doing the lords work at TCU, Jethro from Oklamobilehoma, and Billy Bob from Texas who drives a Cadillac convertible with bull horns on it?

Stephan123 2 years, 4 months ago

Texas is actually a very prestigious university.

Ron Prichard 2 years, 4 months ago

You may hate Texas for everything that has been going on, but you can't argue they are not a prestigious university. They were ranked by US News & World Report as the 45th best university and the 13th best public university. Additionally, UT graduate schools rankings for 2012 include: •Business — 17th •Education — 2nd, tied with Harvard University •Engineering — 8th •Law — 14th, tied with Georgetown University •Pharmacy — 4th I'm not a Texas apologist, but I don't like blanket statements that simply aren't true. UT has the highest academic ranking of any school in the Big 12.
By comparison, KU, the school we all love dearly, has a ranking of 106. I'm not saying this because I love UT, but let's look at this with some perspective and not simply, "Big 10 is great, Big 12 sucks, UT sucks."

JayDocMD 2 years, 4 months ago

I don't hate Texas. I think they are a fine University and our conference's biggest asset in many ways. They are the most prestigious Big 12 school academically, but to split hairs, they are not a "very prestigious University." That's limited to a list of 10-15 schools that have much more stringent admission standards and impressive academic achievements (and no, KU is not included.)

bayareajhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

lol @ "Oklamobilehoma"

never heard that before and it is an instant classic

Chris1955 2 years, 4 months ago

I have to agree with your comment and assessment.

Ludwig Supraphonic 2 years, 4 months ago

Universities rarely inbreed when they hire faculty.

moonlightschlademan 2 years, 4 months ago

Moving forward, I think the ACC / Maryland lawsuit will be significant in assessing the stability of the ACC. After the lawyers decide, the allure of the Big 10 $ will entice Virginia , Georgia Tech, North Carolina to jump at the last 2 slots (as Mizzou fans watch the gates open).
Notre Dame will be hesitant after basking in its National title game glory (although it would be interesting to see how they would have reacted if they had to watch a KSU / Oregon title game). It would be a particularly ironic move in that their move to the Big 10 instead of Nebraska a few summers ago would have eliminated all this nonsense.
KU w/ KSU ties, the grant of rights and smaller tv market would likely be a late option unless Tom Osborne has one last fumblerooskie as outgoing AD in the Big 10 conference room and our attorneys have a magic trapdoor on the rights clause.
The Big 10 gets first crack at the ACC schools over the Big 12. Florida State will not have the academics to get in to the Big 12. The Big 12 will hold on Louisville because if 2 more ACC teams bolt to the Big 10, the SEC gets their Va Tech / NC State picks. Then, Florida St / Clemson will be ready to join to make 12 and at that point if we want to get bigger with Louisville they would jump ship again ala TCU in the Big East. If Virginia / Ga Tech go to the Big 10, NC State / Va Tech to the SEC and Clemson / FSU , we have North Carolina / Duke / Wake / BC/ Pitt / Syracuse / Louisville / U Conn / Notre Dame stuck in the ACC flunkee/ Big East graduate conference.

mdfraz 2 years, 4 months ago

In what metric is FSU not qualified academically to get in the Big 12? Obviously there are a lot of ways to rank schools, but at least one major ranking US News, has FSU at 97. For comparison, UT is 46 (and highest ranked Big 12 school I believe), BU 77, KU 106. And for comparison for one of the big targets everyone seems so keen to get, Louisville? They are ranked 160.

The Big 12 needs to go get FSU and perhaps Clemson, GT or some other ACC school NOW. To stay at 10 basically signs our death warrant as a major conference. Why do people think realignment is going to stop now? It's happened 3 consecutive years, and for two of those years, the Big 12 was in grave danger. Now, we aren't, but inaction will put us back in danger. If you don't get to at least 12 and pick up another couple of football schools (and new geographic markets) you will not survive this. The Big 10 and SEC may or may not go to 16 now, but you can almost guarantee they will at some point. 10 teams in the midwest will not cut it against 16 team megaconferences.

mahkmood 2 years, 4 months ago

It sounds crazy to lose 13 years of money by moving (GOR), but I honestly think it would be worth it for KU to leave. I don't know how this could be financed, but for people who are visionaries, they would see that 20, 30, 50 years from now it would be well worth it for the university. Most people think short-term; visionaries (Delaney) think far ahead. The B12 isn't forward thinking as a conference, they're just surviving. WVU and TCU were only added for scheduling/TV reasons. UT just doesn't care about the future of the B12; they could survive as an independent.

Adding new markets Rutgers and Maryland were long-term investment plays by Delaney. Why didn't the B12 add Rutgers? Easily could have. It is because the future of the B12 is not a concern of UT, thus no "investments" in expansion, just filler teams for the next season.

I see the ACC having a lot of financial and political pull that will keep the conference together. I realize B12 has better football teams right now than the ACC, but in terms of tv markets (population) the ACC is far superior, and I believe if they expand wisely they will land big enough tv contracts to keep their disgruntled locked in GOR (FSU, GT, Clemson, VT). Remember, Notre Dame (non-football) chose the ACC, and not the B12, for a very good reason.

OU will someday go to SEC or PAC, and then B12 will add the best available table-scrap team at the time (looks like Louisville, Cincinnati, and UConn won't even be available, and Rutgers already gone). UT will eventually function like an independent, much like Notre Dame, when the quality of B12 teams has become too low. Future of B12 looks dead in my opinion. If at all possible - even if financially painful in the short/mid term - KU needs to take the 13 year hit and move to B1G, PAC, or, yes, even the "in current jeopardy" ACC. B12 = death ship if ACC expansion + GOR. 4 x 16 "Bigs" will be B1G, SEC, PAC, and ACC.

Daniel Kennamore 2 years, 4 months ago

The Big Ten could do something similar as their deal with Maryland, cover the bill for the exit fee right now and then take a cut out of our earnings form the conference for the next 5-10 years.

I agree with you totally, this might be hard in the very short term to deal with the loss off revenue but would be WAY more than worth it. If the Big 12 doesn't expand it's dead...plan and simple. If I'm Zenger or GBL I go to Texas and say, you expand to 12+ or we leave.

kuilander 2 years, 4 months ago

delaney has said the b1g is not covering their exit fee

Kyle Seiwert 2 years, 4 months ago

I notice there is no link to the "feelers", even though this article included two other links. Why would the BIG take Kansas when they are about to get their AAU status stripped? Isn't that one of the psuedo-qualifications that conference pretends to care about?

Stan Unruh 2 years, 4 months ago

Nebraska has no AAU status and Kansas AAU status is VERY secure. Don't you pay attention?

Ron Prichard 2 years, 4 months ago

Exactly where did you hear KU is about to get their AAU status stripped? I also question the "feelers" from the Big 10, but KU is not about to lose AAU status.

Karen Mansfield-Stewart 2 years, 4 months ago

Interesting. I'm not sure its a big blow to the Big 12, but interesting none the less.
Despite all the panic I don't think anything changes for the Big 12. We were fine with 10 before and we'll be fine with 10 after.

However, if the Big 10 calls, you answer the phone...

LogicMan 2 years, 4 months ago

All current "the grass may be is greener" ACC members are waiting to see the ultimate UMD exit fee. If only $25 million or so, more may jump. If UVa and either or both UNC and GTech jump to the Big Ten, then VaTech and NCState are expected to go to the SEC.

The Big 12 likely then picks up most any pieces it wants. E.g., from FSU, Clemson, GTech, UL, Pitt, and Miami.

If enough decide to jump, then a vote to dissolve the ACC occurs, and if successful, the exit fees could totally disappear.

But ND can stop this cold by accepting full membership in the ACC, and ACC taking one to three new members (UL, UCONN, UCinn, or even Navy).

MoralVictory 2 years, 4 months ago

If KU goes to the Big 10, then OU and Texas will immediately bolt for either the SEC or the PAC 12, most likely the latter - where they can dominate. If Texas and OU leave, no one will pay anyone any penalties because the league will implode.

And do bet on OU/OSU being tied at the hip. OU will eventually do what is best for OU and no amount of redneck tea partiers will be able to stop it.

John Boyle 2 years, 4 months ago

redneck tea partiers? thank you for bring your racist politics into play!

Jonathan Allison 2 years, 4 months ago

If you miss all of your Nebraska fans so much, then you should support KU moving to the B1G.

Kyle Seiwert 2 years, 4 months ago

"Where has tradition and loyalty gone in today's world? I understand the younger generation has no concept of these things. NCAA sports are now dominated by the greedy."

Exactly how many "young people" are pulling the strings on these deals? I would say young people know loyalty just fine, old man.

MoralVictory 2 years, 4 months ago

The sad part to the realignment movement is that, if we had adopted an 8 or 16-team football playoff, none of this would have happened. Give every conference a legitimate path to the tournament and a national championship, plus all of the additional revenue, and we probably don't have this mess.

I hate to say it, but KU probably better take the Big 10 offer and run.

HawkDigestCom 2 years, 4 months ago

What happens with the GOR if the Big 12 goes away? There aren't a bunch of options out there for the Big 9 if KU goes to the Big 10.

ohjayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

I don't see the Big 12 going away. Even if Texas, OU, and KU leave, the remaining 7 teams will stay together under the Big 12 banner. They will look to add other schools to remain viable, just like all the other conferences are right now. They will also continue to demand their compensation from teams that leave. I think the only way you will not have some sort of battle is if all 10 schools agree to dissolve the conference.

HawkDigestCom 2 years, 4 months ago

... and if KU and Notre Dame went to the Big 10 would that make it the best overall athletic conference? That would seem to be the dream scenario for the Big 10. Adding KU would put some appeal into their hoops season and tourney.

Andy Tweedy 2 years, 4 months ago

So if the ACC loses two more football schools to the B1G, wouldn't it make sense that the Big XII would then be able to poach FSU and/or Clemson? They were already frustrated, I can't imagine this is helping. PLEASE get back to 12 teams, we need another winnable football game every year!

Stan Unruh 2 years, 4 months ago

Is Zenger available for comment? What is he saying about all this, Matt?

Robert Brock 2 years, 4 months ago

More of a consolidation issue: the Big East is morphing into Conference USA. Instead of six major conferences, we will soon have five. Meh.

Carter Patterson 2 years, 4 months ago

I just wonder why the B1G, Pac12, Big12, and SEC commissioners get in the same room and form a new association and get out of the NCAA. Pick out the remaining quality teams from the ACC and form 8 divisions of 8 schools with a playoff.

Cody Stumma 2 years, 4 months ago

I'm hearing a lot more about how Kansas and Kansas State are still tied by the Board of Regents and how if a conference wants one team, they have to take both.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

They are not tied. I think the Regents would have to approve a move and would prefer the two schools stay together.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

I would think that the vulnerable Big 12 schools and that includes KU were the one who were pushing the granting of rights so it would be ironic and possibly hypocritical if KU tries to test it. Right now it appears that KU makes the list of possible expansion targets ofnthe Big 10 primarily because of its AAU status as most speculators look at that as criteria to be considered.

My view is that if Delaney and the Big 10 were serious about KU they would have made a move when the Big 12 was in turmoil. The move to expand with Maryland and Rutgers could have been done at anytime and you have to think they were always on their list as primary targets. Only Notre Dame says no to the Big 10.

Grant of rights means it will cost $260m over 13 years to leave. Not only is there a cost. That means the new conference cannot make any revenue from KU. It all goes back to the Big 12. Therefore, we have no value.

ohjayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

ESPN now reporting Louisville to replace Maryland in ACC in 2014.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

The expansion targets listed appear to be speculation and essentially looks at AAU members plus Notre Dame. Let's be honest with ourselves. Of the schools listed as possible Big 10 expansion targets, KU is the least attractive:

Notre Dame- that is the homerun every conference is looking for. Virginia- good academics with marginal sports, but opens up a growing and high populated region Georgia Tech- definitely opens up one of the largest and fastest growing parts of the country North Carolina- same at Ga Tech, but with better athletics. Interesting to read some of the comments in ACC land from Florida State- they hate North Carolina the way the Big 12 hates Texas. Kansas has the AAU membership, but academics are not as strong as the other schools. Low population. The KC market is good size but not growing as fast as the other regions.KU basketball will enhance winter programming on Big 10 network, but football brings nothing.

mikehawk 2 years, 4 months ago

If you don't think KU and KSU are politically tied together, imagine what would happen if it surfaced the Big 10 wanted Kansas State and not us because they are the school in Kansas with the thriving football team and packed stadium competing for national championships? Would KU fans/alums say "oh, darn, shucks, oh, well,"? The legislative phone lines would be lit up and the war of words would be on. Imagine how that would play out around the water coolers at work across Kansas? We would raise holy heck, and vice versa. No, I beg to argue when push comes to shove, the two schools are tied together for better or worse.

The Big 12(10) needs to position itself as a magnet to draw other schools in. Go ahead and say publicly you are happy with 10, but you better be looking to expand. As I've said before, keep Texas and OU in the fold, and the Big 12 will always have clout and drawing power to other schools. This whole deal, as has been said before, is less about attractive football or basketball programs and more about how many TV sets in your state and how much advertising money is to be had.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

It is not just about football stadiums. Big 10 schools participate in a research consortium that brings in millions of dollars of research money. This is an economic boom to the state. Any regents that prevented that from happening would be replaced.

Travis Clementsmith 2 years, 4 months ago

UVA is the real lynchpin here. UVA has an affinity for the B1G. FSU wants the SEC. The SEC wants a Virginia and a NC school. Nobody in the ACC wants to be the school that is "blamed" for the ACC downfall, but FSU is not happy with the ACC contracts and basketball centric stance. If the SEC were interested in FSU, FSU would have been gone already. FSU sits and waits to see if SEC might change their mind.

So, it really falls to how much does UVA want to be in the B1G. If they pull the trigger, VT will go to the SEC and try to shake NCST. If NCST can leave, UNC will go to the B1G and the rest will be looking for B12 invites. But, if UVA stays with the ACC, not sure you'll see any further movement in the big conferences.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

I think the break up scenario that most people feel could happen would be: 1. Big 10 takes UNC and UVa to get to 16 2. SEC takes Va Tech and NC-State to get to 16

Florida State, Clemson and Ga Tech would be the attractive left overs and they would either stay in a weakened ACC or move to Big 12. Does the Big 12 take two of the three or find a fourth team like Miami to get to 14 and still have two open spots available to get to a more desired 16 team conference.

Kevin Huffman 2 years, 4 months ago

How about FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech & BYU?

West of: BYU, Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, TCU, OU & OSU

East of: K-State, KU, Iowa State, WVU, FSU, Ga. Tech & Clemson

In the end I think this is the best "pseudo-realistic" scenario.

Add Mormon, Salt Lake, Florida, Georgia (particularly Atlanta) & So. Carolina markets

Kyle Sybesma 2 years, 4 months ago

Each individual SEC school can block another school from joining if it is in their state. A&M can block Texas. Florida can block FSU. South Carolina can block Clemson. Although I've heard S. Carolina would give the OK to add Clemson. Most conferences will not add a 2nd school from an existing state because they've covered that TV revenue and recruiting ground.

bangaranggerg 2 years, 4 months ago

Well there you have it- the only way Bill Self doesn't win the Big12 Conference Title is to no longer be in the BIG12 Conference.

5280 2 years, 4 months ago

Matt,

I appreciate your position that KU's in good shape and the Big 12 is fine with 10 teams, but I think you're being naive and your sources aren't giving you very good perspectives. This notion that the Big 12 is better off with 10 teams and without a championship game has to stop. Why would the Pac-12 and the Big 10, two conferences that previously didn't have championship games agree within the last few years that they should have one if it's such a foolish proposition and an impediment to national championship success?

The Big 12 will always look like an inferior conference in the eyes of the rest of the nation and more importantly the playoff selection committee by having fewer teams AND using the cop-out of avoiding the championship game. In this case, perception is reality.

Look, every major conference is expanding and looking to continue doing so while the Big 12 is losing members on a net basis and apparently not looking to expand. This restricts the conference's television footprint, which is a major driver to all this realignment. Let's stop pretending that this has to do with football success on a win-loss basis. How then do you explain Colorado going to the Pac-12?

KU has to be honest and acknowledge that Missouri made the absolutely right decision by leaving the Big 12, because it appears that the Big 12 by virtue of that fact it has sat on its hands while other conferences have grown is incompetent and putting KU at peril. KU had better be looking for a way out.

The 13-year grant of rights does little to stabilize this dysfunctional conference, as we've seen virtually every school outmaneuver exit fees and departure periods. No reason to think that the grant of rights will withstand legal scrutiny or negotiation tactics if and when Texas, Oklahoma or other schools see an opportunity to leave.

If KU's not actively looking to leave this conference, they're not doing so to the peril of their athletics department. Sorry, there's no way around it.

Jeff Kilgore 2 years, 4 months ago

I came here to say the same thing. We have been poached four times, more than any of the other power conferences. We've had a great FB year, but that's just one year. Years come and go. I'd be more optimistic if OU and UT hadn't shown their intentions to leave last summer. I still think they're biding their time. In the meantime, our trust in these two institutions is horribly naive. Once burned, (nearly burned) twice shy.

Brian Skelly 2 years, 4 months ago

Look... we all know who the issue is. And forget the "Longhorn Network". Whats obvious is by NOT pursing a league wide TV network the league itself (never mind the individual schools) has hamstrung itself pretty severely. How can anyone not understand this? Or is it that everyone understands this, but because of UT no one cares?

Even if TLN didnt exist, and UT wanted to be remotely magnanimous (attempt at humor) and we DID have a league wide network we'd curently bring in about half the households of the SECs soon to be network. And exponentially fewer than the BTN. So even under the assumption we all trusted Texas and they werent looking out for their own interests only and we all held hands and sang kumbaya the revenues would likely be better, but with no expansion of footprint it wouldnt be remotely close to the others.

That and that alone is why the conference most likely to dissolve isnt the ACC... its us.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

You realize that the provision that allows UT to have its Longhorn record also allows KU to keep all of its 3rd tier rights which amounts to $7-8M per year which is approximately what each Big 10 school is now getting from the Big 10 network.

jgkojak 2 years, 4 months ago

Sorry- you snooze, you lose. The B12 is vulnerable and Kansas is vulnerable.

If the B10 comes calling , we accept. No brainer.

If the B12 then needs to add FSU to stay afloat- let 'em.

Emery 2 years, 4 months ago

The B12 is a very pretentious conference. One day we will wake up and it will be gone.

Sam Constance 2 years, 4 months ago

I don't think that word (pretentious) means what you think it means.

Either that, or your first and second sentence are intentionally unrelated to one another.

Andy Tweedy 2 years, 4 months ago

I think he makes perfect sense. He's saying the Big XII thinks too much of itself and if it doesn't act because of this, there will be nothing left when it realizes it's own perception of itself is overinflated. Not saying I agree, but it does make sense.

Emery 2 years, 4 months ago

You are probably correct. I just do not believe the words of Big 12 athletic directors and coaches when they say that the Big 12 is solid and stable. I believe that these are "pretend" statements in order to maintain the facade of a stable conference. The GOR deal does not make me feel like the Big 12 is solid and stable. I would love to be proven wrong.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

I have a feeling that 1) the KU-Big 10 rumor does not have alot of validity and 2) we are stuck in the Big 12, given the grant of rights agreement. Given that, it is really in our interest to strengthen the Big 12. That probably comes from adding teams. I really don't know why everyone thinks that Big 12 has to expand or that the Pac-12 has to expand.

At some point, expanding does not make economic sense. I think you now see that in the Pac-12. Once UT was off the board, there is no other economically attractive option.

The SEC says it will only expand into new states, so schools in North Carolina and Virginia are attractive; Florida State, Clemson and Ga Tech are not.

The Big 10 wants to expand its network to places that have a lot of TV sets and that happens to be the Southeast.

The Big 12 is smart by waiting to see what develops. If the ACC breaks up and other schools leave, Florida State, Clemson, Miami and possibly Ga Tech will be looking for greener pastures with the Big 10 and SEC options closed to them since they will have chosen other schools. The greenest pasture available will be the Big 12. If the Big 12 chooses not to pursue these schools in this scenario, then we really have a problem.

Kyle Sybesma 2 years, 4 months ago

The reason the Big 12 needs to expand is because of the upcoming four team playoff system. Ultimately it will be easier to have the four teams come from conference championships. Which will make it an eight team playoff. Four 16-team conferences with two divisions of 8. Winner of each division will play in a conference championshp like we see today. The four conference champions will play in the four team playoff.

With the death of the Big East being an Automatic Qualifier it leaves five power conferences. PAC 12, Big 12, B1G, SEC & ACC, with the most solid three being PAC12, SEC & B1G. The ACC and Big 12 will have a face off.

It all depends on the buyout for Maryland. If it's around $20 million look for the crumble of the ACC. FSU and Clemson could look to the Big 12 or the SEC may look at NC State and Virginia Tech. Either one could start a domino effect that will crumble the ACC.

The only thing I see killing the Big 12 is if the GOR deal is easier to get out of than we expect and the B1G, PAC 12 or SEC comes after somebody. OU & OSU to the SEC is the only option I see.

I do think KU needs to do its due diligence and look at the B1G if they get a call.

Sam Constance 2 years, 4 months ago

Each time the realignment garbage comes up, I care a little less about college athletics than I did the day before.

I'm tired of everyone on this site being an expert at what will/should happen with realignment. ESPECIALLY the ones who apparently feel more connected and informed than Matt Tait himself.

I'm tired of the fans and athletes being the absolute last consideration in an industry that should be ALL ABOUT THE FANS AND ATHLETES (aka, students and alumni)

And I'm especially tired of the fans who look at realignment as something "new" and "exciting", because they can't go five minutes without being distracted by the latest shiny thing to go flying by. Realignment is illogical, unless what you--as a fan--care about in college athletics is how much money your athletic department makes. This is something I've hammered on since the beginning of realignment: I care about the money KU's athletic department brings in on a very detached level, because I understand that revenue is key to continuing success. But in terms of my primary motivations as a fan, revenue is just a number.

As far as the whole "tied to KSU" thing... we SHOULD be tied to KSU. I know this probably isn't a popular position to have, given the "rivalry", but KSU is a KANSAS university. We, as Kansans, and even as Midwesterners should want it to continue thriving, and the best way for both KU and KSU to thrive is to stick together. We don't exactly have the pull of a majorly-populated state. It's the same unfortunate truth that allows Texas to have so much sway, but it is reality.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

"Each time the realignment garbage comes up, I care a little less about college athletics than I did the day before."

Best statement of the day and I couldn't agree more.

Jack Jones 2 years, 4 months ago

Second best statement of the day - just before the 'third'.

jgkojak 2 years, 4 months ago

The ACC has deliberately taken an inferior team to block them from going to the B12 - because they understand - unlike the B12s administrators - that this is kill or be killed. GOR be damned because as we've seen - they'll sue each other and mediate away any real harm.

UConn is superior in academics, geography, even in market share, even in basketball and in the long-term about even in football and facilities. They are forcing the B12s hand - and if the B12 makes no move, we have signed our own death warrant-

today, in 3 years or in 13 years - about 9 years from now, recruits will start being told that the "B12 will be gone and you don't want to play in that situation".

Once MD settles, if we do not contact FSU the B12 is either deliberately choosing to implode (which could suit Texas), or is being run by the same incompetence as always.

We should 1) Contact FSU, Clemson and Ga Tech 2) If all three come, F--K Louisville, we can add Rice to get to 14

Kyle Sybesma 2 years, 4 months ago

Out of curiousity.... what makes you think the ACC is stronger than the Big 12? It's a negotiable exit fee of $50 million vs Grant of Rights. I like your prediction above (I see Cinci not Navy in your scenario) but the GOR make it difficult. I don't beleive that the conference will fall apart like people suggest with the departure of one school. The Big East has lost 6 and they still exist.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

Why do you think AAU status is so important? It may be part of screening criteria for the Big 10, but that's it. The AAU is completely irrelevent when it comes to athletics. This is a business and from a business perspective, the Big 12 IS stronger than the ACC. Their media contract for 1st and 2nd tier rights is much more lucrative than the ACC's. The reason there was discussion of Florida State moving earlier this year was because the new media contract negotiated by the ACC was much less than what the Big 12 had negotiated. The Big 12 currently is on par with the SEC (which is up for renewal in a few years), the PAC-12 and Big 10.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

Very flawed logic. Why aren't Rice and Tulane being actively pursured? Why is no one talking about Iowa State? For that matter, why was KU completely shut-out of recent realignment talks? You don't think that the reason the schools were picked had more to do with: 1) expanding to growing or new populated markets- A&M, MU and Colorado; adding a strong football brand to conference (NU).

Kevin Huffman 2 years, 4 months ago

Probably the one I LEAST agree with on here.....and in some cases - i.e, 1) & 4)...you could argue they're one in the same. And Notre Dame didn't exactly enable the Big East to survive, did it?.....Number of schools? It's because of that, the schools like FSU want to leave....their media rights right now pale in comparison to what they would get in the Big XII. ESPN coverage....Ummm, I think Big XII members get very similar coverage not to mention the Fox & even FX coverage this past season...more coverage than ever before. Only ones that are valid are 2) & 3).

Jim Jackson 2 years, 4 months ago

I was not aware that UCONN was superior in academics. I think if the Big 10 comes calling, we would need to take a serious look.

That being said, I would like to see BYU, FSU. GTech, Clemson and even SMU getting looks.

We need to be proactive and get to 12 teams for a conference championship and further to that we need AAU institutions.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

Explain the need for AAU institutions. I don't get it. The ACC which is a superior academic conference just picked Louisville.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

And that makes the athletic conference weaker because?

jgkojak 2 years, 4 months ago

EVERY B10 team is an AAU member - except Nebraska - who WAS a member when they joined but lost it in a dispute over Agricultural grants counting as research. B10 officials have said if NE had lost AAU prior, they would not have been invited.

Jeff Kilgore 2 years, 4 months ago

Yes, some forget that these are universities.

Justin Lindsley 2 years, 4 months ago

Did anyone read the Sporting news link Matt gave? They think the ACC days are numbered. I still think the Big 12 comes out of this fine. I think that the ACC added Ville to shore up the their conference when FSU and Clemson come on board with the Big 12. As soon as the Maryland deal is worked out, that will pave the way for FSU.

I refuse to believe that the Big 12 will not be one of the 4 Football conferences. It will be the B1G, SEC, Pac, and the Big 12. Which teams are in each conference is the only question. The Big 12 is much stronger in football than the ACC ever dreamed of being.

The only problem we have, and it is a big problem is the number of eyeballs our region has. But think about a OU vs. FSU and UT vs. FSU. Those games would be huge national exposure.

jgkojak 2 years, 4 months ago

The Big 10 is after the following schools, in this order, for #15 and #16:

1) Notre Dame -- never gonna happen

so below is the real list:

2) North Carolina -- tremendous academic school, new market

3) Georgia Tech 3) Virginia I can't make up my mind here - I think they want into SEC territory/Atlanta for market and recruiting, but Virginia is geographically sound (w/MD and UNC) and gives you yet another 'in' to the DC metro market. Both are academically Top 50 US News/AAU schools.

5) Kansas

Does UNC leave the ACC? If UNC says 'No' then VA likely says 'No' as well - meaning they go to Georgia Tech - I'm guessing they'd go if asked.

So the fate of Kansas hinges on... UNC.

-

Let's say the B10 does not lure UNC or Virginia, and grabs Ga Tech - and the B12 grabs Clemson and FSU...and the B10 offers KS...

what does KU do?

lama 2 years, 4 months ago

The SEC has been quiet. They would love to snag NC State and Va Tech (they'd actually like UNC/UVA, but those schools will never join the SEC). Those are logical markets for SEC expansion. The Big 10 may wait for that to happen and return to UNC, UVA and ND.

lama 2 years, 4 months ago

That's the main reason, but there's also an air of superiority there. UNC/UVA/Duke believe they are not in the same league academically and culturally with the SEC. Which is true, aside from Vanderbilt. It's the difference between Monticello and NASCAR. Of course, if ACC implodes, they would have two choices: SEC or Big 10.

jgkojak 2 years, 4 months ago

UConn is not an AAU School and thus not eligible for the B10. Neither is Syracuse (they lost membership).

Here are current AAU Members minus Ivy League/schools w/out Div 1 Football, west coast schools, etc. -- these are the only targets for the B1G outside Notre Dame

Duke University (1938) -- doubt they want 'em if they have UNC, if they don't have UNC, Duke won't go

Georgia Institute of Technology (2010) -- POSSIBLE

Iowa State University (1958) -- if they really want 16, and Ga Tech says NO, they could go after ISU and KS

Rice University (1985) -- they already have their smallish school (Northwestern)/geography bad

Texas A&M University (2001) -- not leaving SEC

Tulane University (1958) -- see Rice

University of Colorado Boulder (1966) -- not leaving Pac 12/bad geography

University of Florida (1985) -- not leaving SEC

The University of Kansas (1909) -- POSSIBLE

University of Missouri-Columbia (1908) -- they wish

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (1922) -- it all hinges on UNC

University of Pittsburgh (1974) -- if everyone else says NO they could be a target - Penn St does not want Pitt in the B1G, but those kids didn't want to be touched either, so Penn St doesn't get a say anymore

The University of Texas at Austin (1929) -- this would be worst-case for KS, unless Texas brought KU along (its hinted it prefers KU's company in the past)

University of Virginia (1904) -- if UNC says Yes, VA is gone

Vanderbilt University (1950) -- they'd LOVE to have Vandy - but they're never leaving the SEC

jgkojak 2 years, 4 months ago

Notre Dame is the exception and the ONLY exception. Academically they are on par with other B1G schools.

I promise you they will NOT add a non-AAU school..

Andy Tweedy 2 years, 4 months ago

Nebraska is not an AAU school, and they got in.

jgkojak 2 years, 4 months ago

Summary:

For the B1G

Top Tier Notre Dame UNC VA Ga Tech

Second Tier: Kansas Pitt ISU

Helter Skelter: Texas (and if they take Texas, that means they've lured Notre Dame and the rest is moot)

It gets interesting if in the next week or two we see a statement from UNC re-affirming ties to the ACC. So goes Virginia. Possibly so goes Georgia Tech. If that happens, watch out.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

This article pretty much frames the Big 12's position. It is best to sit back and wait if you are the Big 12.

2 years, 4 months ago

I know it's impossible given today's NCAA landscape, but in Fantasy World this would be awesome. Just gut the whole thing.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1423375-conference-realignment-a-fans-solution-to-college-footballs-one-glaring-proble

LAJayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Matt,

A bit off the subject, but I have a request: is it possible to change the layout of your blog so the original post is positioned at the top and the follow ups come after it? Not a huge deal, but it would make it easier for people like me to read when we come into it after several updates. I do see the benefit of having the latest update at the top, but just seems like the other way has better flow. Again, not a big deal, just curious.

Excellent work, as always.

LAJayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

And perhaps as a way to alleviate the fact of putting the most recent updates at the bottom where it's harder for people to see, you could just throw a statement at the top in bold lettering giving the last time it was updated, so it's easy for everyone to tell if there is new information. Just an idea.

pepper_bar 2 years, 4 months ago

No, no, no. Please do not do this. Much easier to see whether the blog's been updated if the most recent post is at the top.

LAJayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Did you not read my follow up comment right above yours? He could still post a headline at the top stating the last time it was updated, thus alleviating your issue of having to scroll down to do so. Again, it's not a huge deal, just a suggestion. But it would make it flow much better for those jumping in after it's been updated.

LAJayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

As much as I can. I'm pretty busy and love my work, so it's not like I'm on here every five minutes. But I'm trying to check every few hours.

Regardless though, your question completely misses the point. Think about it for a minute. Refreshing the page at this point wasn't my original request. It's not about checking back, it's about the first time you read the blog. I didn't pull up the page until midway through the day today when there were already several updates.

Again, not a big deal, it's just a matter of flow to me. I don't expect Matt to change it, but I still felt like giving my opinion.

jgkojak 2 years, 4 months ago

The SEC will move next - taking NC State and Va Tech

The B10 will respond, making their offers, as discussed above, to 1) UNC, 2) VA, 3) Ga Tech then 4) KS

If UNC is to be believed that they are sticking with the ACC, I'd assume the same of VA and possibly Ga Tech

So then what happens?

That's when I believe Pitt and ISU are on the table -- and more likely Pitt - since its bigger than ISU in market and its a nice way to punish Penn St - also note there is some thought the AAU will kick Penn St out, the feds will come down hard, and Pitt could REPLACE Penn St in the B1G

Food for thought.

Tony Bandle 2 years, 4 months ago

Everyone needs to be prepared because the only thing that doesn't change is change!!

average 2 years, 4 months ago

One issue is that UT and OU see no strong need to expand. It's just cutting the pie pieces more ways from their POV. Unless the expansion grows the pie or lack of expansion really hurts the pie, they don't see a need.

The other 8 schools want expansion for one reason. 12-14 schools = a stabilized home in the game of musical chairs. Iowa State has looked into the abyss of begging for a MAC/MWC slot. TCU just bootstrapped themselves into the big leagues.

But, UT and OU? There's no conceivable circumstance where they get the short end of the stick. Every other conference would take that pair. Or, they could pull together any combo of regional scrubs and still get reasonable TV revenue. And they dominate this conference like no other schools dominate other conferences.

Krohnutz 2 years, 4 months ago

So Matt, by saying you think they will pursue Georgia Tech you are saying the Big 10+2+2 is attempting to move across the Mason-Dixon line. I assume to pick up fertile recruiting grounds, televisions, and bring in some of that drunken, toothless South.

While I agree they would like to, since they are already adding ridiculous amounts of travel for a team that would have no geographical rival (who is close to Atlanta in the Big 10+2+2+2?), why would they not just pony up and go for Florida State?

It is about four hours further straight south to Tallahassee.

I mean, they will already be in a jet aircraft, why not make it the big "get" in the South?

Justin Lindsley 2 years, 4 months ago

So the first round of conference bouncing was because of football. Now its because of academics?

poet008 2 years, 4 months ago

So, what if Mr. Booth who is connected to Chicago really wants KU in the Big 10?

He is worth $5 billion, give or take a billion.

If he really wants KU in the Big 10, could he pay the cost of the grant of rights?

How much are we talking?

Remember, he paid $4 million for a piece of paper.

poet008 2 years, 4 months ago

But if it is enforceable, does anybody know the number? A hundred million (potentially doable for Booth) or hundreds and hundreds of millions?

jgkojak 2 years, 4 months ago

Great points - people always miss this - that its the Chancellors/Presidents, who are academics, deciding these things - and the No. 1 thing going for KU, after our basketball, is our AAU Membership. That buys us a ticket to one of the final four conferences. Sorry K-State.

Worst-case is Pac 12.

Ron Prichard 2 years, 4 months ago

It doesn't matter if you are good or bad at football. What matters is what market share and new TV markets you bring to the conference. The one glaring exception to this is Nebraska, and the Big 10 took them for a variety of reasons that really don't apply to the other moves. Yes, it was domino number 1, but that is about the only similarity.

LAJayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Ok... but his point had nothing at all to do with yours. You were suggesting it has to do with academic standing, and he is saying market share. Two COMPLETELY different points (and he's right).

Academics does play a part but it's a considerably smaller part of the decision. Market share is the overwhelming selling point.

LAJayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

My response was inline with this particular comment thread, not the entire comment board. Raprichard was responding to your comment which was ONLY about academics. If you commented elsewhere about market share, fine. I have absolutely no desire to search out all of your opinions, nor am I going to make a mental note of everything you say on here. You are not that important to me. I was responding to this one comment, which you did not mention market share.

Piece of advice for you as well. You'd go a lot farther with people if you dropped the superior, smug, condescending responses to everyone else. I'm glad you feel confident in your opinions, but what's up with being kind of a d^^k to everyone else? "Learn how to read".... really? You could have just as easily said to me, "I actually talked about market share elsewhere" and I would have likely apologized and probably made an effort to follow other things you comment on in the future. However, your instinct is to attempt to put others down, which is generally a sign of projection and low self-esteem...

Tossing out anonymous insults might make you feel better about yourself, but it greatly diminishes the real value you COULD get out of a community site like this. There are a number of people on here that I feel offer great insight, and know how to interact in a positive manner. Because of that, I have great joy in discourse, even if we disagree deeply. And that makes everyone better.

Something you might want to pay closer attention to. You might find your enjoyment of this site increases dramatically. Just FYI.

LAJayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

I never said friends. I said not being a d^^k. If you would like people to take you seriously and consider your insight, you might want to rethink your approach. If you'd rather them skip over you and never take you seriously, knowing that you're the dude who just tosses insults when someone questions him, you could do that too.

One is an effective way to communicate on a message board. The other is just noise.

Your choice.

Friend.

Jason Renfrow 2 years, 4 months ago

I couldn't have stated it better....thanks, LAJayhawk! This user is trolling this site stating an opinion over and over again...waiting to be engaged....only to spout insults and nonsense that really does discredit their argument. Multiple times I noticed "You're dumb" or "Learn to read"....very elementary debating tactics. It's unfortunate these trolls exist.

Ethan Berger 2 years, 4 months ago

Utah-Not terrible at football

Missouri- Been good the past 10 years

Ron Prichard 2 years, 4 months ago

I'm going to just state for the record:

1) The Big 12 will outlive the ACC.

2) The only things that matter are money and security. The Big 12 has more of both of those than the ACC right now.

3) Texas isn't going anywhere. They are the undisputed top dog in the Big 12 and make more money than they would in any other conference. Plus, they will not give up the LN.

4) If Texas stays put, so does KU.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

TOTALLY DISAGREE:

Colorado (AAU)- NO- The Pac- 12 wanted to get to 12 to get a conference championship game and Colorado is compatible culturally and geographically and has growing population

Utah (high academic ranking, top 60 worldwide)- NO-Would have preferred UT or OU, but since that didn't work. This was a default pick. Somehow, you have to get to 12 and this was the best option in the region.

Missouri (AAU)- The SEC realized a 13 team schedule was not going to work and needed to get to 14. Missouri is an adjancent state with a large population and was looking to leave an unstable situation at the time. The other options include a team from N.Carolina or a team from Virginia which were in more stable positions last year.

Texas A&M (AAU)- SEC coveted getting into Texas. Culturally, A&M feels like an SEC school. A&M wanted to stick it to UT.

Rutgers (AAU)- The NY-NJ Metro Area has nearly 20 Million people with TV sets.

Maryland (AAU)- The Baltimore-DC Metro Area has over 8 million people with TV sets

Nebraska (AAU at time of move to B1G)- NU has a football brand

6/7 additions to stable conferences were AAU schools. 86%

90sHawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Lets all bow down to the all-knowing realignment oracle of the message boards, Mr. McNeil. Geez dude, your attitude and obnoxious comments are quite unbearable.

jgkojak 2 years, 4 months ago

If I were the ACC: I'd invite West Virginia

I'd send get a couple of legally-binding assurances from FSU and Clemson, send flowers and apologies to West Virginia, and invite them to join w/their rival Pitt. They'd have to say YES (travel budget) - leaving the B12 w/9 members -

And I'd watch the fireworks. While the B12 gets picked apart.

W/the ACC standing strong, the B1G offers KS... Texas, OU, OSU and TTU head to the Pac 16, and...

ISU and Baylor join the remains of the Big East, KSU and TCU join the Mountain West.

Ethan Berger 2 years, 4 months ago

Okay let's say this debate on the cause is academic. My question is why? What is the appeal to move into confs for academics? Is everyone striving toward and Ivy league type situation? Where is the appeal to unite based on academics?

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

I find conference realignment fascinating, I think, because something was stable that I enjoyed following for many years is changing and not necessarily for the good. As a loyal KU alum, conference realignment has been frustrating because we don't have any influence. It is difficult for a lot of us to grasp the facts: 1) basketballs doesn't mean anything; 2) KU is located in a state with low population that is not growing 3) none of the three stable conferences want us while some long standing rivals (MU, NU, and CU) were taken by the stable conferences. That certainly damaged our ego.

Just reading the posts today, it appears that a lot of people are clinging to hope that someone really might want us even though there is not a link documenting that the Big 10 has sent out a feeler.

Many people seem to be amateur lawyers saying the Grant of Rights means nothing. We can negotiate that down. How does anyone know? Matt did research and came to the conclusion that it would be difficult to get out of. The Dennis Dodd article made the same claim. If these guys says its solid, I have to believe them.

Everyone seems to think that the conferences have to get to 16 teams. That is not necessary. The media contracts are set for 13 years and have to be honored.

KU is in a much better position than it was last year. I am sure KU was happy with the grant of rights clause. It gave them stability. I think the Dennis Dodd article does the best to frame the Big 12 and KU's situation, which isn't that bad.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

But you are implying that there is a lot of discontent in the Big 12. Nothing I have read indicates that. Everyone is happy. The media rights contract put the conference on par with the Top 3. UT keeps the Longhorn Network. OU doesn't want to go to the SEC. They are happy. KU, KSU, ISU and Baylor are happy. They are making more money than they ever imagined and signed up for 13 years of stability. WV and TCU are just happy to be out of the Big East.

The people who are not happy are on this board who are still upset they weren't offered a spot in another conference during the previous rounds of realignment.

Ron Prichard 2 years, 4 months ago

For what it's worth, HouTex, I agree with you.

pepper_bar 2 years, 4 months ago

The Dennis Dodd column is ridiculous. He focuses on why the Big 12 shouldn't want more mouths feeding on the Big 12's pie, yet he ignores the reality that the pie's size is doomed to be limited going forward because the Big 12 can't promote its champ in a conference championship game like the real conferences can. And he talks about the "Champions Bowl" like it's some kind of sea change from what already existed in the BCS era. It isn't.

As for the "amateur lawyering," Matt said a day or two ago that the GOR must be pretty solid, because over twenty lawyers looked at it before it was signed. Anyone else buying that theory? Or do you suppose some of those lawyers signed the GOR specifically because they saw wiggle room in it?

And for anyone who thinks academics has anything to do with this, look at how many schools are in the "Big 12." These are people who think branding is more important than kindergarten math.

Kyle Seiwert 2 years, 4 months ago

A Kansas fan without their head in the sand or their head in the clouds? I've officially seen it all. This is an excellent post, by the way. The Big 12 has no reason to overreact and invite Tulane and Southern Miss just to have a conference title game or get to some mythical number. The Sportsline article said it all...this is all about money, and right now the Big 12 is about to rake it in. This would be much more worrisome if this was 11 years from now.

Big_Dipper 2 years, 4 months ago

While I think the Big XII is fine with 10 teams, especially if the Grant of Rights deal is solid; if the Big XII is interested in expanding, I don't think a wait and see attitude is the best move. They tried that for 2 years and got hurt. They need to be more offensively minded if they do want to expand. Besides, it really isn't a matter of will the conference expand, as when.

Jeff Kilgore 2 years, 4 months ago

What makes the Big12 different from any other conference is the inequality of its one member, Texas, versus the other schools. UT is a behemoth, and it can call the shots. What they decide, decides the fate of the Big12.

Last summer, UT found out that they couldn't call the shots in the Pac12, and while the idea of expansion might have seemed unsavory to the Pac12 commissioners last year, it might not seem as unsavory in the future. That leaves all schools not named OU and UT in the dark. This is why some of us want to leave now. We've been the poached. We're still thought of that way nationally if you read other boards. No one can blame any school for making a move that is best for itself. If you believe that we live in the era of binding gentlemen's agreements--you're not paying attention. Wall Street has just a strong a say in realignment as the academic institutions do.

Krohnutz 2 years, 4 months ago

Every league has that "one school" that calls the shots. My buddy is a Penn State fan, for them it is Ohio State. For the ACC it is UNC and Duke. For the SEC it is whichever football team has the best chance to play in a title game THAT season. For the Pac 12 it is Stanford and Cal Berkeley. It is unavoidable. Was UT a severe problem with Dan Beebe at the helm not even trying to keep them in check? Absolutely. Is that the situation we have now? Not at all.

Jeff Kilgore 2 years, 4 months ago

I agree except for one thing: TV sets. Texas has 23-4 million sets. Kansas, 3 million. I'm not saying that UT is better than us in any other way. I just wonder how long the SEC and PAC12 will wait until they make a move, if the number 16 makes any sense. There are two trends: conferences are getting bigger and our conference has been severely poached.

I really don't want the Big12 to fail. I really don't. But everyone's main concern is KU, not the Big12, and that's what is driving me to write at all.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

Great point. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. The Florida State fans talk about UNC with as much disdain as we talk about UT. My understanding is that Missouri is in the SEC East because that is what Alabama wanted. The California schools run the Pac-12.

pepper_bar 2 years, 4 months ago

Berkeley is a bigger power player in the Pac 12 than USC. Got it.

blindrabbit 2 years, 4 months ago

The State of Kansas is football poor. Regardless, I think everyone will agree football is the controlling factor in all of this re-alignment movement, basketball is rather insignificant and to KU's disadvantage. Additionally, as good as Kansas State is in football, it is evident to me that the State of Kansas does not contribute very many quality football players to the major college level. In comparing the State of Nebraska to Kansas (Nebraska has 1 million less residents) it is apparent the Nebraska has a much richer high school crop. To give evidence, here is a comparison of the NU, KU and KSU programs. Nebraska has a 135 man roster with 62 or 47% in-staters. KU has a 102 man roster with 26 or 25% in-staters. KSU has a 131 man roster with 59 or 45% in-staters. If comparing NU with the combined KU-KSU rosters it is even more apparent that Nebraska has the more successful in-state production. Again NU has 135 and 62 or 47% in-staters and the KU-KSU combined roster have 233 and 85 or 36% in-staters. What is wrong here, strange because Oklahoma, Missouri and Iowa are better contributors than Kansas!

Jeff Coffman 2 years, 4 months ago

Not sure if I understand your point. You say that 85 people from Kansas are on DI teams in-state and that only 62 are in Nebraska. I think the difference is that Nebraska only has one D-1 football program vying for recruits whereas Kansas has two programs vying for recruits.

PS--I don't think football is the driving force. I think TV Sets are the vying force and in the case of the Big 10 it is clear that AAU membership is important.

90sHawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Reading some of the comments on here is laughable. The hysteria and doomsday scenarios are pure entertainment. So many arm-chair lawyers and experts on conference realignment. I personally think the Dodd article was fairly accurate; just my opinion. I think some schools, particularly FSU, are waiting to see how the negotiations go with Maryland's exit fee before deciding to act; assuming the Big Ten and SEC haven't already poached more teams leading the conference to start crumbling around them and forcing them to act. If the SEC sticks to what they've said and historically done, they want 2 schools like NC St and Va Tech (market expansion in new territories). The Big Ten, I believe, is unlikely to grab any distant schools which is why I think GTech is all rumor. I think they'd love to get UVA and UNC (contiguous footprint, great academic schools, new markets) and call it good. Bottom line, it definitely looks to be heading to 16 team super conferences, and to me it is the ACC that will lose out. They have disgruntled football schools in FSU, and to a lesser degree Clemson, and have now added Louisville. Any new additions like that, or less impressive, will only fuel FSU's angst. But I believe any FSU, Clemson, etc move to the Big 12 only comes AFTER the B1G or SEC have taken a couple more teams from the ACC. Those 2 conferences want to have their 16 teams in place for the new TV deal (B1G) and conf. network (SEC) that are on the horizon.

JayHok 2 years, 4 months ago

Why when I go to www.KUSPORTS.com is there a picture of Rick Pitino yelling at me?

pepper_bar 2 years, 4 months ago

You mean that picture where he was just looking at you with a closed mouth and shrugging quietly in front of a Louisville backdrop? Your concept of "yelling" is different from mine.

blindrabbit 2 years, 4 months ago

Something to think about in this re-alignment mess! The Big10 now has 14 schools and none from the Old South (Civil War Era) states! The SEC now has 14 schools and none from the Union (Civil War) States; all schools were from seceded states, except border state Missouri. The PAC10 falls outside this issue. The Big12, Big East and ACC have combinations of the issue. So what, my guess is that the main reasons that the Big10 did not take Missouri is the above, also why the SEC is not interested in adding any "Northern" schools .Interesting to add to the mix.

90sHawk 2 years, 4 months ago

I'd venture to guess culture plays a part in realignment, albeit low on the list of reasons to expand, but really only for the conferences in the best position to be choosy at this point, the B1G and SEC. The Big 12 would/could take FSU and Clemson and culture would have nothing to do with it.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

Maryland was a border state just like Missouri. The Civil War is over. The south has a lot of transplants from the North.

JayhawkerX3 2 years, 4 months ago

Wakes up in the morning and finds out Larry Hagman is still alive....and all of the "conference realignment" has been a (nightmare) dream!!

blindrabbit 2 years, 4 months ago

90sHawk: Agree with part of your response to my prior, especially about the Big12 taking Clemson and FSU if offered, the Big12 is already "culturally" integrated. But, I'll bet the Big10 and SEC would avoid integrating. By-the-way, if you were from a Northern State school, would you want to play in Oxford, Baton Rouge, Columbia S.C.or either Alabama schools, they don't want any Yankees down there. Missouri was tough enough for the SEC to swallow.

Jeff Coffman 2 years, 4 months ago

I was curious if the Grant of Rights is for Home Football games?

If so, couldn't KU just play all of their football games on the road or at Arrowhead, until the GOR is over?

KU keeps their Tier 3 TV rights, which was 3 or 4 football games this year and I would guess about 70% of their basketball games. Again most basketball games are Tier 3 so you wouldn't have to play them away from home.

Bville Hawk 2 years, 4 months ago

THE_REAL_DEAL_WITH_BILL_MCNEIL = mangino0holtz

Ethan Berger 2 years, 4 months ago

ahhh, you are so right. I've been wondering where the punk was. It makes sense. This boards where much better without him (or her).

Jason Renfrow 2 years, 4 months ago

Yeah but wasn't that dude a big Pac12 honk.....this new troll seems to be an ACC honk.

Sam Constance 2 years, 4 months ago

Substitute "attention craving" for [Conference X] and BINGO!

Honk, for obvious reasons, still applies.

troutsee 2 years, 4 months ago

If we are offered by the Big 10, we go, period. End of story. The Big 12 is very vulnerable and has been slow to react over the years. We would be stupid to turn down the B10 or the Pac 12. The Big 12 will not survive without expansion.

blindrabbit 2 years, 4 months ago

Let's pack it to the PAC10 if offered. As Horace Greeley said "Go West Young Man".

blindrabbit 2 years, 4 months ago

Mea culpa: PAC12, either way let's go if offered!

Brian Skelly 2 years, 4 months ago

I think Dodd's article is pretty apt. My guess the next 'big move' (if and when) will be the Big 10 going for UNC / UVA. I dont think the SEC would want to make the next move, but who knows. And they'll only do that if they are adding T.V. sets. Which is why there is logic to the ideas out there that Va Tech / NC State are teams they might go after. I dont believe FSU or Clemson (or others for that matter) would bolt unless the poaching begins.

I do think the competition between Fox and ESPN will benefit us as well, and potentially greatly. Big 10 / Pac 12 are Fox. ACC, SEC are ESPN. Big 12 is... both. And from what it sounds like, they literally 'split' the package for football. Fox is also starting up "Fox Sports One" after the Super Bowl. While its hard to envision it 'knocking off' ESPN, it will be nice that it almost assures us of getting more TV exposure than we realistically have earned. Think about it... we're likely the WORST (or amongst the worst) of the BCS football teams... and 10 of our 12 games have been televised nationally or regionally. Yes, some of that is through regional sources (Fox Sports wherever your from) but I dont recall KU getting as many games on air before. And we're gawd awful. My guess is between Fox, ABC, ESPN, FX, ESPN2, Fox Sports regional networks, ESPNU, and the new Fox Sports One; odds are good virtually ALL Big 12 conference games for football will be nationally televised. There's value in that.

Look... I dont think we're out of the woods. I think the Dodds article points out though that the Big 12 is comfortably safer than the ACC though. That might not mean much, if anything. But if the ACC implodes, the Big 12 will only benefit.

Kevin Huffman 2 years, 4 months ago

Honestly, if we leave the Big XII, I think I've seen some of you say PAC-12....I think that they'd be LAST on my list. Games two time zones back!?!?!?!? Sorry, but I'm not watching games that start at 10:30 CST!!!! And that would be the case for a ton of the road games you'd be playing there!!!

In order I'd want:

Big Ten ACC SEC PAC-12

Jonathan Allison 2 years, 4 months ago

agreed Huff. PAC 12? Kill me now. Sure, some of the road trips would be nice if you could afford to go. And I can't stay up till 1am watching TV. I have to wake up at 5! If I lived in CA I'd love it, but I'm in TX. But of course, this isn't about me.

That said, as much as I hate and am sick of all of the conference realignment garbage, the b1g would likely be the best landing place for KU for a lot of reasons including revenue, academics, marketing, competition, and travel. Plus it would be great to be able to rub it in Mizzou's face.

P.S. I really like the Big 12 Conference, though not as much as I did when it had 12 teams.

mdfraz 2 years, 4 months ago

You guys act as though the decision makers care what fans want. You can be pissed all you want, and it won't make one lick of a difference. Even if you don't like it, you have to accept that the fans' concerns have been last on the list for the last three years of realignment and whining about it won't do any good.

Realignment has been and is happening, and the only concern we need to have is to make sure that KU ends up in a major, relevant conference when it's all said and done.

Sam Constance 2 years, 4 months ago

So, just to get this straight...

If we don't like realignment, we should just STFU because there's nothing we can do.

But since realignment IS happening, we need to "make sure" that KU ends up somewhere desirable?

Your logic doesn't follow.

We know the decision makers don't care. That's a problem. And I'd sure as hell rather spend my voice making it known that this realignment BS is pushing me (as a fan who is part of the source of the revenue generation that is driving this crap) away from the sport than try to shout that I'd prefer playing in some nonsensical geographic conference when that's just not the truth.

Ron Prichard 2 years, 4 months ago

I don't share the sentiment that the Big 12 is doomed or is even on shaky ground. They will continue to be one of the power players in this conference game and they actually sit in a great position. First, you have to ask, Why are conferences wanting to expand, and is it the same for each conference? Finally, what are the pros and cons?

For the SEC, there currently is no pressing reason to expand. They are on solid ground for the forseeable future; they wouldn't gain that much in additional TV revenue by expanding yet again (see their overcalculation on that with MU and aTm) and they are not worried about anyone leaving for another conference. About the only reason to expand right now would be to come up with a better football schedule, because 7 teams per division is a mess. So, the SEC will be content to sit back and watch this unfold. If the ACC implodes, then they will go to 16. Otherwise, they stay pat.

For the B1G, I think we are all missing the reason for their expansion. I don't believe it was about academic standing, although that may have played a part. It definitely wasn't about football. The reason for their expansion had to be new markets in DC and NY. I don't think it has anything to do with trying to move the landscape to 4 superconferences or anything like that at all. One thing we know about Delaney is that he is a forward thinker. Someone on here did an analysis showing the population decline in almost every state covered by the B1G. Delaney sees this. To keep the TV money rolling in, he needs to get into the markets that are experiencing population growth. DC and NY fit that mold. The fact that he took Maryland and Rutgers, two schools that do not fit the typical B1G mold, I think point to this. Also, I wonder if ND's recent committment to the ACC had something to do with Delaney targeting an ACC school. As an added bonus, Delaney knows that if he can destabilize the ACC, he still may have a shot at ND, which is the crown jewel he has always coveted. I don't think the B1G has any plans to add more teams unless ND is part of the package. Then it would be ND and one other.

For the ACC, they are in full blown panic mode, much as the Big 12 was twice in the past. If they don't shore up the walls quickly, as the FSU source stated, welcome to "free agency." So, Big East schools, welcome to the ACC. Louisville, welcome to the ACC. I think the admission of Louisville was a nod to Florida State and Clemson wanting some/ANY competition in football going forward. Other than that, they don't necessarily fit the ACC mold.

Ron Prichard 2 years, 4 months ago

Part 2:

For the PAC, they really have no where to go geographically, other than to try to poach the Big 12. That didn't go like they wanted last time and I really think they are content to sit this out right now. They are on solid enough ground to know they aren't going anywhere and will be relevant in the coming/changing landscape. Why divide the pie any further right now?

That leaves the Big 12. The Big 12 holds about five MAJOR players in football right now and THE major player in TV's, football, etc, in Texas. As long as Texas stays put, the Big 12 will continue to exist. KU will not leave the league if Texas stays. No other team will leave if Texas stays. Texas has not desire to go anywhere because they are the BIGGEST dog in the conference and probably the nation right now. They control everything from where they sit. Why change that? The only way the Big 12 changes is if the ACC loses it's lawsuit against Maryland and FSU and Clemson become available on the cheap. Even then, I think more dominos have to fall before the Big 12 steps in.

Just my two cents.

mdfraz 2 years, 4 months ago

I count TWO major players that are in the Big 12......incredibly curious how you come up with 5. And current on the field success is a factor, but if that's your criteria, why is KSU in no one's cross hairs as a good candidate to be poached? Why did WVU switch conferences (and apparently do so with no interest from the Big 10, SEC or ACC)? Who else is your "power player" in the conference as it pertains to realignment?

There are two schools in this conference that other conferences may really WANT. Others, us included (except for MAYBE the Big 10 being a bit interested), would be schools that other conferences might tolerate if we tagged along in some sort of deal. I don't like it, but it's pretty much the truth as I see it.

Ron Prichard 2 years, 4 months ago

I get that athletic success doesn't play much into this equation. However, market share does. At the same time, if it wasn't for football and the division of athletic related and generated money, would any of this be happening? No.

Nebraska was upset at the inequitable division of athletic generated money in the Big 12. They left. CU felt it could compete better, make more money, and fit better culturally in the PAC, so they left. However, without the instability in the Big 12 at the time due to inequitable athletic money distribution, it wouldn't have happened.

aTm hated that Texas was it's "big brother" and had more power, influence and made more money than it did. It was severely p!ssed at the Longhorn Network and the money UT would make from that, if you recall. They left. MU left for what it felt was more money as well as the stability in the SEC. Why? They were upset at the instability and infighting brought on by the inequitable division of athletic generated money in the Big 12.

ND was being courted by conferences on the hope that eventually football would follow the other sports. Money, money, money. They have a national following and the networks will pay mega dollars for their inclusion in any TV deal. This is what the ACC was banking on. It is also why ND wants their football to stay independent, but also why the ACC worked out a contract for 5 football games against ACC schools each year.

WVU and TCU took a huge jump in pay in coming to the Big 12. Plus, they were invited as the two best options at a time when the Big 12 desparately needed to add. Were they the two largest schools from a new TV market footprint? No. Did they bring with them the most money? WVU, probably. TCU, probably not. Maybe Louisville would have been a bigger generator of a new TV footprint, but the Big 12 needed to shore up Dallas with aTm leaving, so TCU made sense. Again, athletic dollars are driving the choices.

Maryland is leaving the ACC because the B1G can give them twice the athletic budget. They pretty much said this in their official statement. Is the B1G a better academic conference than the ACC? Not at all. Do they cover more populated states? No. Why move, then? The ACC was solid until they announced. So...yep...athletic generated and related revenue!! On the flip side, the B1G gains access to the DC market (and NY with Rutgers). Again, more TVs = more money.

(cont)

Ron Prichard 2 years, 4 months ago

Part 2

Why did Pitt and Syracuse ditch the Big East for the ACC? Besides being in a doomed conference, money, money, money. While the ACC doesn't bring in as much as the SEC or B1G or Big 12, they make a lot more than the Big East. Plus, with the prior defections, the Big East was (and is) in danger of being left out of the big money grabs in the future. What money grabs? Oh, yeah...athletic generated money.

You are right that conference realignment has everything to do with economics. But that economic engine is being driven by athletic related dollars. If that's not the case, why does the market matter? Why do the TV's matter? Other factors may come into play, but conference realignment is ALL about getting more TV's, and more TV's mean more money. Why? Because SPORTS NETWORKS are paying the conferences!!

Ron Prichard 2 years, 4 months ago

I don't completely disagree with you. I didn't say five power players. I said five major players in football right now. I would count OU, Texas, WVU, as top line football powers as far as national interest and prestige, with OSU, KSU and even TCU just a little step down. I don't believe all of these schools are individual power players in realignment, but I do believe as a league, along with several other factors, it puts the Big 12 on solid ground.

We may hate that Texas essentially runs the Big 12, but all of the things that make us hate them are the things that make it very likely they will never leave the Big 12. They are the biggest dog in the park; they have their own network; they make more money than anyone else; they can recruit who they want; they are not in danger of being left out of anything, ever.

Unless I am completely mistaken, I do not see KU ever leaving the Big 12 as long as UT is still around, and I don't see UT going anywhere for a long, long time. If the members of this league are fearful for their existence, I would imagine they would actively be pursuing expansion right now instead of sitting back and waiting. And as much as we want to say UT is blocking everything, the UT power brokers aren't stupid. While we need UT, they need us (the rest of the league). If the league was about to dissolve if it didn't expand, the league would actively be looking to expand. I think Bowlsby is a very good addition and not anywhere as inept as our prior commissioner (Beebe). He comes from the PAC where he was instrumental in their expansion plans. He's not a dummy. He knows more about this than you or I or anyone else on this board ever will.

Ask yourself this...three months ago when reports were FSU was interested in the Big 12, no one was worried about the Big 12's existence. The ACC had not lost anyone at that point, they had just signed a new TV deal, and everyone said no one would ever leave the ACC. Even then, we weren't worried about the Big 12. Why now are we so afraid the Big 12 is crumbling? The ACC has since lost one member in Maryland; it is very obvious the B1G isn't afraid to steal another member/partial member if they can get them (ND) or maybe even someone else; the ACC is desparately adding members whether they add any real value or not; and FSU is playing wait and see with the desparation law suit filed by the ACC to see if they can leave on the cheap. Yet, I come on here and everyone is spouting how the ACC is solid and the Big 12 is in trouble. I just don't see it. What am I missing? I'm open to discussion on this and I'm not egotistic enough to think I know more than anyone else on here, but I just don't see the same reasons to panic as everyone else apparently does.

Jeff Kilgore 2 years, 4 months ago

Would it be an overstatement to say that the academic future of our state is in limbo until the dust settles? I think this is safe to say, and the fact that this discussion doesn't get one or two articles per day on the latest updates, (true or false) is beyond me. This is the one of the biggest stories in the history of the university, because, as you read below, KU IS A SCHOOL, NOT A SPORTS TEAM, (but even that's not entirely true).

William Weissbeck 2 years, 4 months ago

I'm missing why people are content with Louisville going to the ACC and Tait's opinion that the ACC remains vulnerable. They were already the best BB conf. They have taken the best of the Big East. For the ESPN and East Coast folks, there is TV money there. The Big 12 is taking a big gamble that it will become BB irrelevant. KU at the top of a Mountain West type league with no competition from Jan. until the NCAA tournament. That can't help either national recruiting or actual games against real competition. Football is just as shaky. If Mack Brown continues at this pace, it will only be OU and K-State as the consistent FB schools. A&M put themselves in a good position to poach more talent from Texas. This isn't looking pretty.

Jeff Kilgore 2 years, 4 months ago

This would be beyond great. The B1G's reputation, prestige, and value is something that would solidify the university's standing for decades, if not, centuries and even a millennia--just kidding! Sort of. But BMCN, you need to cite sources.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

Cite the multiple sources. I don't believe it. It that were the case, Matt would have posted it on his blog. There has not been one credible source that has tied KU to the Big 10. Matt was even able to provide a link that indicated there was interest from the Big 10.

lama 2 years, 4 months ago

If there's a way to make this happen, get it done, KU.

LogicMan 2 years, 4 months ago

KU isn't going to the B1G anytime soon unless either the conference is dissolved by a backroom agreement of our presidents, or there is a deal for another big name or two to replace KU. Think B1G agrees not to take or block FSU, Clemson, or Miami if it gets KU.

But this minor talk of KU or the Big 12 breaking up is by ACC folk trying to muddy the waters. They are the ones under the knife right now, not the Big 12.

Latest, from the classic unnamed sources for the bloggers who have been the most accurate, is that GaTech to the B1G is a done deal. UVa has mucked up the move of them and UNC to the B1G, but maybe they are just legally covering their backside like MU and others did before they jumped. FSU and others are willing to go to the Big 12 if the B1G and SEC pass on them. The UofL may yet end up with us, despite the recent news.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

There is certainly more legs to other ACC schools going to the Big 10 than KU. Gerogia Tech would make 15 for the Big 10. Who would be #16? Among Virginia, UNC, and Duke, I am sure UNC is preferred. Maybe the Big 10 is still trying to pressure Notre Dame who has to feel, give this season, that they can stay independent.

If another two schools leave the ACC, they can either remain at 12 schools or pick up UConn and possibly Cincinnati to remain viable.

Jeff Coffman 2 years, 4 months ago

Matt in your last update you talk about calls and waiting...we are all hungry for another rumor...please please give us more!

Sam Constance 2 years, 4 months ago

Joining the B1G isn't going to change that perception of Kansas, and therefore, KU. It just won't.

It's laughable to think otherwise.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

Marchphog is exactly right. Maybe you need to live outside of greater KU to understand that. Many people confuse KU with K-State. Those who can distinguish us, know us only for basketball. If you are in any state with a population over 3 million, KU's academics isn't viewed as being superior to the local flagship university, even those in the South.

Does my engineering degree from KU increase in value because KU is in the Big 10 versus Big 12? Not at all.

Robert Brown 2 years, 4 months ago

You act like it is as simple as someone deciding to leave. It is much more complicated than that. I imagine last year when MU and A&M left, we would have also left if given a good opportunity. No one wanted us. Contrast that with today where there is stability and much more money and you have a situation that has vastly improved.

Jeff Kilgore 2 years, 4 months ago

I'm a shade less critical of TLJW on this, but these moves or even rumored moves are extremely important to many people and certainly more than sports fans. Realignment news is about half truth/half rumors. There were people here who never thought UT and OU would venture west. They were wrong, and the rumors turned out to be true. Remember when the PAC-12 Commish was rumored to be in KC or in Lawrence on a summer Sunday night? I never found out about that, but UT and OU were panned, so it didn't matter.

The thing about Self's "we're just fine" comment is that he is truly speaking for himself and the bball team, which makes sense. But KU's status would be greatly enhanced by B1G admission and if there is a shred of discussion about this, then the paper should be all over it, and probably in the news section. It's that B1G.

142466 2 years, 4 months ago

I haven't posted a comment on the LJW board for over a year now, not since the time of the last realignment maneuvers. The good news, for me anyway at my advanced age, is that that I've yet again avoided the reaper. The realignment machinations fascinate me. No other press coverage bests Matt's. Here's are my 2 bit incendiarisms. I expressed all this during the prior chess match. Current events reinforce my views. 1. The Big 12 Conference, having only 10 members, is a structural dinosaur compared to the other BCS Conferences (heck, maybe even compared to where the Big East will end up). 2. We should have added Boise, BYU, Cinci, & Loui to get to 16 (with Houston, Rice, SMU, New Mexico, Colo State, & even SDSU as possible backups). Don't let the B12 front office tell you how rough the waves are. Tell them to just bring the ships into port. BCS Conferences are athletic business consortiums, not academic debating clubs. 3. Since the B12 is doomed, KU should have been doing everything possible, mostly in secret, to get into the B1G. Make it happen. Huge long-term benefits to the entire state of Kansas. 4. Iowa State to the B1G, too. ISU is much stronger academically than many casual observers realize. Better than KU in FB. Lawrence, Ames, Lincoln, Iowa City, & Minneapolis are a natural geographic fit. Maybe, barely, the Wildcats make the cut. KU, ISU, KSU would all be required to significantly expand their FB stadiums. 5. KU should be lobbying the PAC12, too. Don't fret the time zone difference. Bring along some other B12 schools, and the time zone difference becomes no Biggie. I'm sure others here have already explained why.

90sHawk 2 years, 4 months ago

As you stated, it's all about money. Very sad that greed is driving the bus. There certainly are other reasons at play in realignment, but anyone thinking money isn't numero uno are mistaken. The BCS is a classic example; despite how broken a process it is in determining a champion, it survived for many years b/c of one thing: money !

LogicMan 2 years, 4 months ago

On-air and blog rumors in Tampa that FSU is to announce, in a week or so, a move to the Big 12. Could be nothing, of course.

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