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Realignment Today: 5:55 p.m. - Big 12 pursuit of Louisville 'heating up' while SEC says no schools under consideration as 14th member

5:55 p.m. Update:

This from the take-it-for-what-it's-worth file... The San Jose Mercury News' Jon Wilner recently Tweeted a note that said sources are telling him that the Big 12's pursuit of Louisville is heating up.

In the same Tweet, Wilner also referenced that Navy and Air Force have standing offers to join the Big East.

Neither move is terribly surprising, but it's hard to know how solid the news is considering Wilner covers the Pac-12. That said, he's been impressive during the whole realignment saga and has proven in the past to have good info.

If talks with Louisville are in fact heating up, it's possible that BYU has dragged its feet on the Big 12 or may just not be interested in the first place.

That said, one source told me last week that Louisville would be the better target for the Big 12 initially because it would be easier to work with. Adding the Cards would bring a big-time basketball program and football on par with many of the Big 12 North schools. What's more, it's not a bad fit in terms of geography either.

  1. BYU - 38%
  2. Louisville - 33%
  3. TCU - 17%
  4. West Virginia - 9%
  5. Other - 3%

Stay tuned...

2:21 p.m. Update:

SEC commissioner Mike Slive talked to reporters about his league's expansion plans today and, while doing so, seemed to indicate that Missouri is not going anywhere.

"We are going to be strategic and thoughtful when we think about any expansion," Slive said. "We anticipate being 13-team league in 2012-13. There are no institutions currently under consideration" as a 14th member."

What's more, Slive said no other schools had applied for membership to the SEC and that the league office has not initiated any talks with any potential candidates.

This is not to say that Mizzou is not still talking with the SEC or that things couldn't change in a hurry, but, if Slive's being truthful — and, really, after the past couple of weeks doesn't he almost have to be — it looks like the Tigers don't have many options.

Still waiting word out of Dallas to see how MU acted in today's meetings. Should help clarify their position, if Slive's comments don't already.

Stay tuned...

1:48 p.m. Update:

Not a whole lot new this afternoon. I just got back from Turner Gill's weekly news conference and stumbled upon a couple of links worth passing along.

The first is from the Sports Business Journal and it says the idea of "superconferences" actually dates as far back as 1990. Although we may have avoided it for the time being, many out there still believe 16-team power conferences is where we're headed.

Check out this look at how it all got started.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2011/09/26/Colleges/Super-conference.aspx

Speaking of getting there someday, Oregon State president Edward Ray said this week that the Pac-12 should not rule out the idea of expanding at some point down the road.

Go figure.

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/09/pac-12-expansion-never-say-never.html

Waiting to get in touch with some folks who might know how the AD meeting in Dallas went today. Could be a while, but I'll be back with an update if/when I get some info.

Stay tuned...

9:41 a.m. Update:

With the nine remaining Big 12 athletic directors scheduled to meet with interim commissioner Chuck Neinas today and tomorrow in Dallas, the focus can officially shift from a this team or that team to this conference or that mode back to one in which we examine the future of the league that, against all odds, isn’t going anywhere.

Yesterday, we briefly looked at the schools the Big 12 could and should consider for expansion in the event that Neinas and league officials determine that the Big 12 should grow back to 10 or perhaps even 12 schools in the near future.

We’ll continue to do that throughout the day and week as relevant news on the topic pops up.

TCU coach Gary Patterson isn’t commenting: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09/25/3395956/patterson-staying-loyal-to-big.html

Air Force officials are playing it safe: http://www.gazette.com/sports/gould-125602-force-mike.html

And the BYU rumors remain the same as they were days ago: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=rivals-1268216

For now, here’s a quick look at my updated percentage wheel regarding which team could be No. 10. Not a lot of movement from yesterday, with BYU and Louisville still sitting as the odds-on favorites.

  1. BYU - 48%
  2. Louisville - 20%
  3. TCU - 16%
  4. West Virginia - 9%
  5. Air Force - 5%
  6. Other - 2%

-- Remember, this is just the percentage wheel for these schools becoming the 10th member of the Big 12, not joining the conference altogether. --

OK, so now we can get on to examining something that I’ve heard a lot of talk about during this whole realignment mess.

As things moved closer and closer to the 16-team, superconference model that many still feel is inevitable, one question kept popping into my head — Why the love affair with the number 16?

Depending upon who I talked to, the answers varied. But it always seemed to come back to one thing — “It’s so the greedy can have as many as they want,” one source told me.

Another, with ties to the former Big Eight Conference, said this: “In the end, the Big Eight had it right. And when you go to 16, you end up with two divisions of eight.”

And last, another source had this to say when attempting to explain the magic number, which, by now, we all know multiplies by four to get 64, a somewhat important number in the world of college athletics: “Somebody out there dreamed that up once and now it’s almost like the administrators are trying to fulfill it.”

Great. Got it. Or....

Although 16 was the hot number for the past several weeks, it doesn’t appear that anyone is headed there any time soon.

The Pac-12 and Big Ten are happy with a dozen each. Despite the Pac-12’s flirtations with expansion, the league presidents made it clear that even though commissioner Larry Scott may have wanted to expand, the league was content at 12.

The Big Ten said as much a year ago when it added Nebraska. Jim Delany and company didn’t say so much as a peep this time around, so you can bet they’re happy at 12, as well.

The ACC, meanwhile, jumped head-first into expanding to 14 when it landed Syracuse and Pittsburgh seemingly out of nowhere. At the time, the move appeared to be the one that would get the superconference train chugging but, in the end, it was little more than a big splash that ultimately wound up calming the waters. Where the ACC goes from here is anyone’s guess. There’s still talk of UConn and Rutgers heading south but it’s hard to know for certain if the ACC wants to go that big and be forced to spread the pie that thin, especially now that the “but everybody’s doing it” excuse is kind of out the window.

Then there’s the SEC, which, thanks to the official addition of Texas A&M, sits at 13 teams and appears to be looking for a 14th. Missouri, West Virginia, TCU and others continue to dominate the talk. But if Mizzou elects to stay in the Big 12 — which is where I’m laying my money — and if the SEC really already turned WVU down once and if TCU can’t or won’t get out of the Big East, then what will the SEC do? Live with 13 or go big-game hunting? Let’s hope we don’t have to find out.

South Carolina president Harris Pastides said he wants the league to aggressively pursue a 14th team and then stop there. So much for the magic number 16.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2011/09/24/1750063/conference-realignment-south-carolina.html

That leaves the Big 12, which is down to nine, but may be on the lookout for one or three more to fill the void left by the departures of Colorado, Nebraska and A&M.

Berry Tramel, of The Daily Oklahoman, writes that the league’s best and only move is to get back to 12. http://newsok.com/big-12-needs-12-teams-not-10/article/3607661

We’ll know soon enough where the league stands in all of this. The guess here is that a move to get back to 10 will not take long and could be announced in the next few weeks.

If the league chooses to grow beyond 10, that’s good news for a lot of schools but especially Kansas, which would get the luxury of adding another non-conference game to its football schedule the way it used to in the old Big 12.

For now, though, we continue to wait. Wait on rumors to start, decisions to be made and stability to be forged. Of course, this time around, it all starts with Missouri.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/article_9f0a87cf-e7f5-5ca9-93dd-1b8294a33b3d.html

Stay tuned...

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Comments

JHWKDW 2 years, 6 months ago

Also Ill tell you what I was up at the local sports bar watching the OU/MU game and There were alot of OU fans heck even Missouri fans but the OU fans were saying that if they had gone to the Pac 12 along with the Texas teams,the OU fans had online petition ready to go that they wanted KU and MU in the Pac 12 also!Heck even the Mo fans that were up there liked it!The OU fans even said OSU fans wanted that!Just think If we and Mo went to the Pac 12 along with Ok and Tex schools we would get Ca. and Tx Recruits!the top 3 schools for H.S.Recruits for College F.B. are Texas, California,and Florida!There was a OU bleacher report that said the same thing!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/834604-why-ou-and-the-pac-12-would-be-wise-to-bring-kansas-and-missouri-too

Well speaking of Florida,and Texas it be great if the big 12 grabbed TCU and South Florida at least I think it would be!

Well gonna be a interesting next couple of weeks!

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JHWKDW 2 years, 6 months ago

SEC not going to 14 schools Baloney!I

The team they will get will not be Missouri it will be West Virginia!

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Randy Bombardier 2 years, 6 months ago

In the past I was concerned about letting other Texas schools in the conference as I was thinking about the effect on recruiting. Now, I am not so sure about that. I think A&M going to the SEC could have more of an effect. Otherwise, I think getting the best football schools we can to replace the loss of NU and TAMU is the best course of action. Therefore, I like TCU, BYU and Boise and don't particularly care who else. West Virginia to the East might be a bit of a stretch though. Don't think we want to go in both directions. Louisville surprises me that it would be considered as it is a Metro school. I don't know much about it but it does not excite me. Colorado State, Air Force, SMU? Heck, add em all. But I think local may be the best thing. Maybe those last 3 plus TCU and one of the distant schools to get us to 14 should end the talk of dissolution for some time. If MU does end up leaving add another, but get everyone on board, approved, all details worked out except for pulling the trigger. Get everyone pre-approved with the idea that there would be expansion two by two.

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Hank Cross 2 years, 6 months ago

Jon Wilner on Twitter says speculation about BYU and Boise State to B12 is "off the charts" Then there's this story reporting that BYU has already agreed to come to B12. http://kansascity.sbnation.com/missouri-tigers/2011/9/29/2458759/will-missouri-tigers-choose-to-stay-in-big-12-over-sec-expansion#hope-for-big-12-brigham-young-university-reportedly-confirms-decision

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Hank Cross 2 years, 6 months ago

TCU would make some sense as it would deny the SEC another beachhead in TX.

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BarkingHawk 2 years, 6 months ago

Anyone heard KU to ACC buzz? Seems to be alive on some other cites.

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jaybate 2 years, 6 months ago

West Virginia - The super corridor's northeast stem has to go through West Virginia after Kentucky on its way through either Pennsylvannia, or north east Maryland on its way to New Jersey and Uncle Vinny's truck line. West Virginia is a must get for the super corridor conference called the Big 12.

Other 1.0- this is a euphemism for one of the key Pennsylvannia schools and/or the University of Maryland. Why? Because after the northeast stem of the Super Corridor passes through Kentucky and West Virginia, it has to either go through Pennsylvannia and/or Maryland to get to New Jersey. The Big Ten states know this; that is why Penn State was added some years ago. And this is why Maryland of the ACC is dangling themselves in front of the Big Ten presently. Joining the Big Ten preemptively would prevent them from having to be absorbed into the super corridor conference called the Big 12. The University of Maryland is clearly not wanting to fall victim to the deep politics of the super corridor, but by the same token this implies that there probably are very important factions in Maryland's oligarchy that would be receptive to the northeast stem of super corridor being routed through Maryland. Pork has awesome powers of persuasion.

Other 2.0-If the Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas oil-igarchy apparently are going to prepare to frack coal all over Basin and Range country from New Mexico to Canada, and feed it into pipeline laterals off the Keystone XL pipeline running from Canada's Tar Sands to Texas refineries, well, they've pretty much got to get hold of at least one of the major universities in each of the Basin and Range states for a pork conduit. They let Boulder Juco realign, because Colorado needed a pork conduit for the Colorado River basin politics. So they've probably got to look at adding Colorado State to the Big 12, unless the Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas oil-igarchy is already using the Mountain West the same way it uses the Big 12. New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, and the Dakotas all really need to have at least one of their state universities in the coal tracking conference (Mountain West) and the super corridor conference (the Big 12). It remains to be seen whether the oil-garchy decides if pork barreling can be streamlined by merging the Mountain West and Big 12, or if they are better kept separate. If BYU enters the Big 12, it could be that coal tracking and super corridor functions could be converging, which could drive a merger of these seemingly otherwise unrelated conferences.

Conferences are only secondarily about sports and television revenues.

Conferences are foremost coalitions of state pork barreling conduits called universities that share common political economic interests in infrastructure, natural resources and commerce.

And that's the rest of the story IMHO, and its all opining and speculation as usual.

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jaybate 2 years, 6 months ago

"The Real Politik of Tait's Big 12 Candidates"

BYU - is the most important university in the state with the most subsurface mineral rights that are being bargained away to help burn off some of the national debt and these subsurface mineral interests would ideally belong in a coalition of states with similarly staggering subsurface mineral interests that also just happen to comprise a Super Corridor conference called the Big 12. Otherwise, there is but modest benefit and a lot of travel cost to adding BYU, not to mention it is in a useless time zone for marketing purposes. But mutual subsurface mineral interests make BYU a great fit with Big 12 super corridor and coal tracking conference. The state of Utah has put Utah U into the Pac 12 to give it a pork conduit for all things Colorado/Green River basin related. The state of Utah can now place BYU in the Big 12 for all things pork related to subsurface mineral rights issues shared in common with the Big 12 states (for the uninitiated, this means coal layers and coal tracking, plus natural gas developed by the tracking).

Louisville - The Super Corridor's Northeast stem right of way is mostly likely to go up the Ohio River valley on the south bank to avoid blockage by the Big Ten States on the north bank. To go through Kentucky, you have to get at least Louisville U and the parimutuel and insurance interests in Louisville on board. The UK could also join down the road, but one or the other is a must get to land the right of way.

TCU - a pre-emptive grab for the Dallas Ft Worth TV market to use to make a future UTAustin departure more affordable, and to deny a significant share of that TV market to, say, the SEC.

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JHWKDW 2 years, 6 months ago

Id like to have TCU,Louisville,and well it is toss up between Cincy or BYU as the last team to get to 12 again!TCU has a good Football and Baseball program!Louisville great Basketball and decent football.And Cincy would be a great replacement for Nebraska in football anda good basketball program if the Big East implodes!Seems like the Big East is worst off than the Big 12 boy what a mess they are in!I know the Big 12 has issues but wow the Big East is worse!If we go to 14 add BYU, not sure about whoever else but first lets get some good teams and get back to 12 first!

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tecuani 2 years, 6 months ago

Hmm, why no updates Matt?

Neinas spoke today, something I found interesting...

"Neinas had said last week that there was "resistance" from some existing members to adding teams from Texas.

"I'd say that's changed," he said."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gpIh46rV8hM9EOmaoFzqq3fsGqWA?docId=1a7cde082dc8406aacc43595bb87f0d4

Uh oh, TCU anyone....hmmm?

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William Blake 2 years, 6 months ago

Time to talk football. We have homecoming this weekend and I hope all of you can make it to the game and show the world that Kansas supports football.

It is going to be one heck of a tailgate. The weather will be good.

See you all there!

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southwindjay 2 years, 6 months ago

I'm just glad we finally have someone who is on the offensive rather than a defensive position.

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jhwkfan162515 2 years, 6 months ago

As a Kansas fan currently living in Louisville, for selfish reasons I would want to see Louisville in the soon-to-be Big 9. Then when Kansas comes to town I could go to KU-UL games. But realistically, UL is geographically not a good fit for the soon-to-be Big 9. They would be better off in the SEC. It would make the rivalry with Kentucky more meaningful.

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Dale Stringer 2 years, 6 months ago

Here is a different approve to division in a 12+ team conference that I would like... every two years, let the two schools with the worse combined sports record draft the other schools into their division. We'd use the records from some or even every sport that all schools participate in. I'm thinking football, M & W basketball, baseball and softball. For football, you would play everyone in your division (5 games), 3 teams from the other division and 4 non-conference. I would also make rivalry pairs (etc. MU-KU, OU-OSU) so if they don't end up in the same division, they would be guaranteed to play each other in one of the 3 cross-division games.

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teddibear 2 years, 6 months ago

Over a year ago, the president of FedEx offered $5 million a year for 5 years to a BCS conference that would bring Memphis to their conference. I agree that their football program is currently weak, but look at the BB recruits since Calipari left, and they have been outrecruiting KU.

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FLJHK 2 years, 6 months ago

I agree Notre Dame is beyond any realistic hope. However, if the conference as a whole approached them and said we can offer something that no other conference can: an agreed upon different revenue model for Tier 3 monies if and only if, they came on board, I think it would be remiss to not at least have the conversation.

Otherwise, to get to 12 I'm OK with AFA, BYU and Louisville, although I would prefer Tulane or possibly Rice for at least one of the slots.

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Randy Bombardier 2 years, 6 months ago

Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss. State, and Colorado State.

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Angus0199 2 years, 6 months ago

BYUs going to be part of the B12 soon. AFA is a natural inclusion as well. They would rather be B12 and BEast. Would work great. With BYU, there comes an opportunity for Notre Dame. In the caos come opportunity,

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teddibear 2 years, 6 months ago

I still don't understand why Memphis isn't part of the expansion talks. Memphis is the home office of Fed Ex, and FedEx has committed a significant amount of money to any BCS conference that will admit them. The BCS is all about football. Doesn't it make sense that FedEx will also put money behind the Memphis football program. And, wow, the conference would pick up a nationally ranked basketball program in the deal.

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LogicMan 2 years, 6 months ago

A really interesting interview of Louisville-area sports reporters:

Bozich & Crawford on Sports Sept. 27, 2011 http://www.courier-journal.com/

The video quit on me after 15 minutes, but the Big East is wringing its hands just like us, and it is fairly obvious that Louisville would jump on an invite from the Big 12.

Like us, they are concerned for their conference mates and also wondering why BB doesn't carry more weight.

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Krohnutz 2 years, 6 months ago

OK Matt, let me try to discuss this with you, and keep in mind that I think most people hear something catchy on TV and run with it.

"As things moved closer and closer to the 16-team, superconference model that many still feel is inevitable, one question kept popping into my head — Why the love affair with the number 16?"

Somebody, somewhere, most likely associated with ESPN believes that we are headed to 16. So Joe Bob tells Bobby Sue, and Bobby Sue calls Johny Awesome and then boom, everybody is saying we are headed to four sixteens.

Here is what the Nutz thinks: We are headed to either three 12's and two 16's, or we are headed for three 16's and two 12's.

There are some good football programs left out of the four sixteens, and somebody somewhere will throw in a football program even if it means travelling.

I can easily see the nation having a 16 man ACC, a 16 man SEC, and 12 members in the Big 12, Big 10 (change your name?), and the Pac 12. The Big East just dies, like it should.

But who knows.

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manginorh00lz 2 years, 6 months ago

BYU is the obvious choice to get to 10.

I think the next two should come from Air Force, Rice, and Tulane.

And then we stop.

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 6 months ago

I am not a proponent of expansion (I would keep it at 9), but if we were to expand, I think the following:

Central Florida, South Florida Tulane, BYU Air Force, Navy, Army

There are your seven teams to get to 16.

All 7 bring new markets to television and no additional Texas Teams.

Let the Pods be figured out.

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Torisen 2 years, 6 months ago

Wondering how much of the SEC stuff is a direct quote, because "The SEC league office has not initiated any talks" and "no school has applied for membership" doesn't rule out Missouri initiating talks but not yet formally applying.

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Robert Brock 2 years, 6 months ago

The Big XII has lost three terrific schools. I don't want to replace them with crap. The only school that is available and capable of replacing one of the fallen is BYU. Take the Cougers and remain at 10 until worthy additions are willing to join the frail and grumpy Big XII. I am skeptical that the conference will last; Mizzou certainly does not seem to give off positive vibes about staying the course.

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Michael Maris 2 years, 6 months ago

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/09/26/college.sports.firm.ap/index.html?sct=cf_t2_a5

So, DeLoss and Chuck are back being partners again?

Tell me how this information is good for the Big XII? I understand that DeLoss and Chuck have a history (already) from the old Big 8 days.

But, didn't OU want to get rid of Dan Beebe due to the fact that he was just a puppet for UT-Austin and family?

So, now Chuck is going to be doing the same thing?

Why would Chuck agree to be an advisor for a firm that would be in competition against Neinas's own company?

Advising schools on what coaches to hire, etc........... Isn't that what Chuck's company does?

The smell of Bevo is still in the Air. EXIT NOW.

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Steve Brown 2 years, 6 months ago

MU have gone to the mattresses and is holding their TV rights for the first to call from the Gambini or Baras family since they learned Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes. As Michael said, it was a wise move, and what role Fredo had, is yet to be determined. But you can never speak against the family no matter what your relationships are in Havana. Hyman Roth on line one, wants a meeting.

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tecuani 2 years, 6 months ago

If I could have my dream three teams to get to 12 I would go with

Boise State Texas Christian Louisville

Talk about some exciting football seasons. =)

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lama 2 years, 6 months ago

What's the status of the TV rights pledge -- has Mizzou agreed to this?

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Phoggin_Loud 2 years, 6 months ago

Also, if the Big XII is attempting to increase exposure wouldn't the Air Force Academy bring the armed forces network??

Matt, do you know how/if this would guarantee Big XII games being broadcast around the world & the impact of such?

Thanks.

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Steve Brown 2 years, 6 months ago

If it is true that UT is the major reason Buffs, Huskers, Aggies departed, then wouldn't it be sweet irony to bring in TCU the one team they don't 'prefer'?

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cajayfan 2 years, 6 months ago

Have you watched our football team?! We need something....

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droppinplates 2 years, 6 months ago

Seems pretty obvious to me MU is not going anywhere, was probably never going anywhere, and has for some time. For some reason the media wants to continue to make it the new big drama in the conference alignment stories day after day. Why?

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droppinplates 2 years, 6 months ago

Seems pretty obvious to me MU is not going anywhere, was probably never going anywhere, and has for some time. For some reason the media wants to continue to make it the new big drama in the conference alignment stories day after day. Why?

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hailtoku 2 years, 6 months ago

I'm sorry but is there any point in covering this as much as we do? You realize this story is going to change a hundred different ways and that there are a zillion different outcomes that could take place.

Why don't we cut back on these reports and make it an every Friday kind of thing. I mean really, it would something like this:

"We thought Louisville was going to come but then they backed out and that ended up not being true and then Missouri was going to go to the SEC but that ended up not being true and someone said something about Kentucky leaving the SEC and that's not true and now maybe BYU will go to the Big 12 but that probably will end up not being true".

All these updates are doing is freaking out our fan base. Let's play some football.

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cajayfan 2 years, 6 months ago

Sounds like the fans and coach big-mouth Pinkel are lobbying MU officials big time. http://www.kansascity.com/2011/09/26/3169191/pinkel-stands-by-comments-that.html

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Steve Brown 2 years, 6 months ago

The key markets in our conference are Houston, DFW, San Antonio, Austin. While I prefer Louiville for BB tradition and a new market, there are still advantages to TCU, A great flight from any member, for fans, and players families and a quick flight home for the student players. Sure didn't like the PAC talk with 3 hours flights. TCU brings a "new" section of an existing market, north central texas. It also blocks SEC from getting into DFW. TCU helps not hurts us recruiting Texas, playing there every other year.

Big 12 playing TCU home or away brings some TV share not currently tuned in to that channel. Also, no matter what happens to KU v MU or KState we aren't making the 6pm news in any texas market. TCU changes that for us and metro recruiting.

If UT doesn't like, that makes it good by me.

Just realized next year we aren't get to play Tad Boyle nor Turgeon, so sad.

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jhwkfan162515 2 years, 6 months ago

As for the SEC, if they're going to add a 14th member, they should get either Texas Christian or South Florida.

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jhwkfan162515 2 years, 6 months ago

I say we stay at nine members and rebrand ourselves as the Big Nine Conference or the I-35 League. That's more revenue to be spread around to each school once Gay-&-M leaves the league.

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ltownatrain 2 years, 6 months ago

Ok so I know they are awful in football right now but I still say we should get Tulane. Great academic profile, in New Orleans, Plays in superdome (think about conference title games being there) not to mention that they recruit heavily in big 12 territory as well (Texas). Not to mention that just like Air Force they increase the Big 12 market footprint which is important when expanding.

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jphog 2 years, 6 months ago

It's unknown how quickly A&M will get a vote though. Might be a year away. So we should try to go after the best fit for now and if they are comfortable waiting then Missouri will be forced to sign on for the next 6 years with everyone else and we'll be more stable.

I still think Air Force could be a good addition if they spend some of the money they get from being in the Big 12 on upgrading their basketball arena which is pretty small. I would like to get Colorado back in our footprint.

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jgkojak 2 years, 6 months ago

I can see Louisville being a reasonable fallback for them -

I'm still surprised it looks like the big loser in all this may be West Virginia- especially if UConn and Rutgers go ACC.

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jphog 2 years, 6 months ago

I'm in Alabama and this morning I heard that the SEC is probably going to go after FSU or possibly Louisville if they can't get FSU. Basically by adding Texas A&M they will have enough votes (with Texas A&Ms) to get FSU in where they would have been vetoed before. Poor Missouri might not be as wanted as they hoped. Is anyone surprised?

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HawkfanNWichita 2 years, 6 months ago

Ok yeah I am crazy and a little too over patriotic at times but I always thought why not be aggressive and make our own 16 team conference and bring in all 3 service academies? I could see every 3rd year the Army vs Navy game down in Dallas and the exposure in the east coast markets for the league would be a plus as well.

I say give the SEC A&M for Arkansas as a fair swap. Arkansas has more to gain in the Big 12 than they do in the SEC they recruit the vast majority of their kids from Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas and Texas. Why not be in a league that gets you out on TV in those areas.

Bring in Tulsa and TCU and take your pick of the other Texas schools or perhaps go after Colorado State to get exposure in Colorado again.

Ok ok yeah I am crazy.

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Michael Maris 2 years, 6 months ago

Forget adding BYU, add Central Florida (Orlando), Louisville and South Florida (Tampa).

Football teams fly chartered flights (to the Florida Schools). Fans can easily get to Orlando and Tampa via Southwest Airlines.

Add the Florida Recruiting base along with the Texas recruiting base.

Have Eastern and Western Divisions.

East

Central Florida Iowa State Kansas Louisville Missouri South Florida

West

Baylor Kansas State Oklahoma Oklahoma State Texas Texas Tech

Yeah, the travel might be tougher for Iowa State, K-State and Texas Tech fans (but the rest of the league can't help the fact that they are 2 hours away from major airports).

S. Florida and Missouri would automatically be the teams to consider for the Eastern Division Champs. Iowa State might be in that mix (as well).

Just some thoughts. Probably get beat up over the Central Florida suggestion. But, wouldn't Cincinnati and W. Virginia sure be ticked off if they got trumped by Central Florida? My understanding is that Central Florida has a pretty big Alumni Base

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Sam Constance 2 years, 6 months ago

Great update Jesse. My favorite part:

[And last, another source had this to say when attempting to explain the magic number, which, by now, we all know multiplies by four to get 64, a somewhat important number in the world of college athletics: “Somebody out there dreamed that up once and now it’s almost like the administrators are trying to fulfill it.”]

I've been shouting from the mountaintops, since this whole realignment mess was restarted, that the 16-team, superconference idea was nothing more than an idea that sounded cool in theory (as a magic way to supercede the BCS), but it was a logistical nightmare and really nothing more than a pipe dream.

I mean, we're sitting here trying to guess (without much luck) what's happening amongst a NINE team conference within which each team has a different idea of how things should happen. Even if you have 4 separate 16-team conferences, the amount of collaboration and cooperation that would be necessary to circumvent the NCAA seems impossible. Not to mention the fact that circumventing the NCAA doesn't really bypass the BCS (a fact no one seems to understand).

I'm not really sure what's driving it, but there seems to be a lot of "grass is greener" behavior within college athletics these days. Between the completely baffling suggestions to take the NCAA tournament to 128 teams, to this mess with the four "superconferences", no one is satisfied with the status quo. Actually, more accurately--no one is satisfied with anything but a massive, shakeup of the status quo. To me, that's a maddening concept, considering that college athletics--at least when it comes to basketball and football--are super popular right now, and I'd hazard a guess that a fair number of sports fans in the U.S. would say they prefer collegiate to professional...

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kuhawks28 2 years, 6 months ago

The reason behind the talk of the four sixteen team conferences was this:

16 x 4 = 64 teams. The number of teams in the NCAA Basketball tournament.

With four sixteen team superconferences they could create their own basketball tournament that channeled money in a similar way to the football model.

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blindrabbit 2 years, 6 months ago

West Virginia Univ. in Morgantown continues to raise it's ugly head in Big12 realignment talk. It must be that someone wants to further dumb-down the conference. WVU is an Eastern school that none of the eastern conferences seem to want. If you had been to the campus and observed the fandom you would understand! why. (just think of Bob Huggins) Cincy and Louisville are urban schools, that are kinda Eastern and a bit "out of water" for us; like the Air Force, BYU, TCU talk though.

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LSHawk 2 years, 6 months ago

With all the above said the most important thing for KU to do is IMPROVE THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM!! We must get our program up to par with at least the mid tier programs in our conference. We can no longer just be a basketball school....

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mustlehustle 2 years, 6 months ago

The level playing field for all schools is television revenue and "BCS" bowl opportunities. The posturing among "State" schools has more panic and sense of urgency, simply because they have seen their endowments, contributions, ticket and merchandise sales, along with attendance dwindle during the current recession.

The difference the schools like BYU, Notre Dame, TCU, SMU, and service academies are affforded is their endowments come from their respective archdioeses, churchs, and in the case of Air Force, your U.S. government. As a result, they are looking solely at BCS opportunites and television network, more from a television viewer standpoint and not a revenue generator to bail-out their program.

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142466 2 years, 6 months ago

I wonder if the remaining B12 schools are discussing the following premises and proposal.

  1. College football is heading towards 16 team (2 division) conferences, each conference with a championship game followed by a final four national tournament.

  2. If the B12 can get to 16 before the the national tournament is instituted and if UT and OU remain in the B12, the NCAA will have to include the B12 champ in the national tournament. Even if there are FIVE or, someday SIX, BCS leagues. With 5 BCS leagues and a final 5, the tournament would extend over 3 weeks, the first week being the wild card game. Which 2 of the 5 contenders would be wild cards? Determined by the BCS rankings, because the final 4 will probably be seeded in the same manner. The public, the traveling fan bases, and the TV networks would still desire to continue several of the existing bowl games, even though not a part of the final 4(5).

Therefore, get to 12 ASAP, without losing UT or OU, by adding 3 credible football schools. The NCAA, the 12 league members, and potential additional invitees will then conclude that the B12 will be included in the national tournament.

Then go from 12 to 16 before the national tournament is instituted. The B12(16) survives.

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BPSkelly 2 years, 6 months ago

I do think 12 is the minimum. As from other posts, I'd be more for going all the way to 16, but I think anything short of 12 is simply cowtowing Boomer and Bevo.

I also agree with CalHawk that the idea of splitting up Tier 3 rights, remotely equally, is long gone. That train has left the station. A smaller % (20-30%) would be nice, but considering KU's hoops is one of the biggest benefactors of this, I dont know how it helps the Jayhawks. Id be up for sharing, for sharing sake if it keeps schools happy. But clearly Bevo has already spoken on this, and the LHN is why they are now here and not elsewhere.

The biggest question for KU is do they have the content (and $$$) to do a start up TV network of exclusive Jayhawk programing? As much as Id love to see that, my guess is the answer is no. How many times do you run replays of basketball games before the folks who've wanted to watch them have already done so? It does sound like there is movement, or at least interest in the Big 12 forming their own network(s). I guess we'll see.

As for us going to 12... I like the BYU, AF, Louisville idea. TCU is gonna be a hard sell, even though it makes total sense. UT's objections would be loudest, but my guess is others would be objected as well.

Regardless, this needs to happen. The wheels need to be in motion before years end.

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jgkojak 2 years, 6 months ago

If the B12 goes to 12, I'm really thinking Air Force should be in the mix with Louisville and BYU.

1) Gives BYU a travel partner/less isolation. 2) Gets the B12 back to Colorado (and, like BYU, into Pac 12 territory) 3) Brings, like BYU, a national audience, and being on services network internationally is kinda cool when you think about it 4) Absolutely no threat to recruiting football or basketball 5) The B12 needs a boutique academic school

Seems to make sense!

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Randy Maxwell 2 years, 6 months ago

Did Gill not have a press conference today either? We got nothing from his weekly phone interview yesterday and so far nothing from his Tuesday presser. This obsession over what may or may not happen in a year from now is ridiculous.

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jgkojak 2 years, 6 months ago

The down and dirty numbers that matter on realignment.

US News best college ranking, last seasons Sagarin basketball and current Sagarin football rating

SCHOOL...US NEWS...SAG BBALL...SAG FOOTBALL Texas=.....45...10...14
Baylor......75...77...29 mu...........90...40...38 isu...........97...87...42 ku............101...2...62 ou............101..123..2 osu..........132...67...7 ksu..........143...27...36 ttu............160..137..27

proposed members: byu..........71...8...53 cincinatti..143..18..47 Louisville...164.17..69

For comparison: Air Force...33..126..58 TCU=97 Co State=128 WVU=164 S Florida=181 New Mexico=181 Houston=unranked (ouch!) Memphis=unranked Boise St =unranked (#67 in w regional, below University of the Incarnate World in San Antonio) (no joke - that really is a school rated above Boise St) - Seems like the debate could be: BYU is a lock - then... do you add AF and TCU and go for academics (Top 100) and geography or do you add Louisville and Cinci and gain significant TV exposure or can you split the diff, and add AF and Louisville (who is basically tied with TTU)

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Travis Clementsmith 2 years, 6 months ago

I'm starting to warm to Air Force, based mostly on their athletics profile, they would go right to the top of the conference in that regard. I think BYU really adds to the national profile of the conference, and then Louisville would help solidify our region and basketball profile. I don't know that any of them add a whole lot to football, but there just aren't many of those schools out there, and the ones that might, aren't close and have other detractors.

Obviously, Boise St has a great football program going, but everything else is small time: basketball, alumni, recruiting area. South Florida I really like, but they are stretching the boundaries as well. I just don't see those schools unless we expand beyond 12.

If we go to 10, then BYU would make the most sense because they can come right away. If we go to 12, then Air Force and Louisville.

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bradynsdad 2 years, 6 months ago

Matt is the revenue sharing plan that is being put into place more attractive to teams wanting to join the big twelve? Or does the big ten, sec and PAC 12 still have a better revenue plan?

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selfishhawk 2 years, 6 months ago

I think getting to 10 or 12 will be much tougher than everyone is contemplating right now. I understand that some of the schools would theoretically love to be part of the BCS conference. But a few things are problematic. First and foremost, I think we might be underestimating how damaged the conference is and appears right now. Why would BYU give up their independence to be a part of the Dysfunctional 9. Second, some of the schools mentioned may jepordize our BCS status. I recall reading that the Mountain West had a couple schools that really hurt their status as a potential BCS conference - Air Force was one of them. Finally, everybody assumes that our individual presidents are going to be okay with adding whoever, but just like the Pac 12 didn't want Okie St., some of our presidents may not want some of the proposed schools. Just food for thought.

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AlecRaenos 2 years, 6 months ago

From a stability standpoint, 12 seems like the best number.

From a competitive standpoint, 8-10 is perfect.

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longhawk 2 years, 6 months ago

I don't understand why adding a team to get to 10 would allow Kansas to add another nonconference football game. We're at 10 now and we only get three noncons. Why would it be any different in 2012? Are you assuming the new school wouldn't be in until 2013?

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ltownatrain 2 years, 6 months ago

All I can say is if we go to 12 teams can we please adopt an SEC approach with playing your entire division, play one cross division rivalry and then 2 rotating cross division games. For example, they could put OU and OSU in the North with original big 8 with OU always having cross over rivalry with texas. This would help ensure that if we go back to divisons that schools like Iowa St., KU, K-state etc always play one major opponent who is regularly placed on tv each year, it also would improve their money earnings as well as competition. I want to see that just so we don't hear folks saying well all the power is in the south. Lets even the divisions with cross over rivalry games which, will make the conference better as well.

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BoiseHawk 2 years, 6 months ago

I'd like to see KU add Louisville (great hoops program), Boise State (great football program) and BYU (good overall sports program). BYU and BSU would have travel partners and the Big 12 looks pretty stout. If the Tiggers flee the conference, replace them with Air Force, then the Big 12 has a serious mountain presence. Let's assume Missou leaves ...

NORTH

KU KSU ISU BYU BSU AF

SOUTH

OU OSU UT Tech Baylor Louisville

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Ted Adams 2 years, 6 months ago

Is it possible that MU is flirting with the SEC solely for the purpose of getting the league to 12 and not 10 members? The logic being that MU has a much better chance of being relevant in the conference if they go back to divisions which isn't going to happen with 10 members.

I also wonder if TCU isn't in the mix here. Taking TCU as one of 3 or even 5 new members might be the chip that Texas has to give up to prove they aren't running solo anymore and are truly sold on the "all for one and one for all" in the Big XII.

How about BYU and TCU to the Southwest Division and Louisville, Cincinnati, and West Virginia to the Northeast Division of the New Big XII? 6 division games and 2 from the other division for football

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Hank Cross 2 years, 6 months ago

To me BYU and AFA would be the best options when you look at the total package of academics, athletics and fanbase. Also, although they're competitive they are also not going to threaten OU and UT in FB or KU in BB.

I also like getting to 12 with solid schools, because that way if the TX and OK schools ever do leave, KU would probably have a viable conference.

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