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Realignment Today: 5:55 p.m. - Big 12 pursuit of Louisville 'heating up' while SEC says no schools under consideration as 14th member

5:55 p.m. Update:

This from the take-it-for-what-it's-worth file... The San Jose Mercury News' Jon Wilner recently Tweeted a note that said sources are telling him that the Big 12's pursuit of Louisville is heating up.

In the same Tweet, Wilner also referenced that Navy and Air Force have standing offers to join the Big East.

Neither move is terribly surprising, but it's hard to know how solid the news is considering Wilner covers the Pac-12. That said, he's been impressive during the whole realignment saga and has proven in the past to have good info.

If talks with Louisville are in fact heating up, it's possible that BYU has dragged its feet on the Big 12 or may just not be interested in the first place.

That said, one source told me last week that Louisville would be the better target for the Big 12 initially because it would be easier to work with. Adding the Cards would bring a big-time basketball program and football on par with many of the Big 12 North schools. What's more, it's not a bad fit in terms of geography either.

  1. BYU - 38%
  2. Louisville - 33%
  3. TCU - 17%
  4. West Virginia - 9%
  5. Other - 3%

Stay tuned...

2:21 p.m. Update:

SEC commissioner Mike Slive talked to reporters about his league's expansion plans today and, while doing so, seemed to indicate that Missouri is not going anywhere.

"We are going to be strategic and thoughtful when we think about any expansion," Slive said. "We anticipate being 13-team league in 2012-13. There are no institutions currently under consideration" as a 14th member."

What's more, Slive said no other schools had applied for membership to the SEC and that the league office has not initiated any talks with any potential candidates.

This is not to say that Mizzou is not still talking with the SEC or that things couldn't change in a hurry, but, if Slive's being truthful — and, really, after the past couple of weeks doesn't he almost have to be — it looks like the Tigers don't have many options.

Still waiting word out of Dallas to see how MU acted in today's meetings. Should help clarify their position, if Slive's comments don't already.

Stay tuned...

1:48 p.m. Update:

Not a whole lot new this afternoon. I just got back from Turner Gill's weekly news conference and stumbled upon a couple of links worth passing along.

The first is from the Sports Business Journal and it says the idea of "superconferences" actually dates as far back as 1990. Although we may have avoided it for the time being, many out there still believe 16-team power conferences is where we're headed.

Check out this look at how it all got started.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2011/09/26/Colleges/Super-conference.aspx

Speaking of getting there someday, Oregon State president Edward Ray said this week that the Pac-12 should not rule out the idea of expanding at some point down the road.

Go figure.

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/09/pac-12-expansion-never-say-never.html

Waiting to get in touch with some folks who might know how the AD meeting in Dallas went today. Could be a while, but I'll be back with an update if/when I get some info.

Stay tuned...

9:41 a.m. Update:

With the nine remaining Big 12 athletic directors scheduled to meet with interim commissioner Chuck Neinas today and tomorrow in Dallas, the focus can officially shift from a this team or that team to this conference or that mode back to one in which we examine the future of the league that, against all odds, isn’t going anywhere.

Yesterday, we briefly looked at the schools the Big 12 could and should consider for expansion in the event that Neinas and league officials determine that the Big 12 should grow back to 10 or perhaps even 12 schools in the near future.

We’ll continue to do that throughout the day and week as relevant news on the topic pops up.

TCU coach Gary Patterson isn’t commenting: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09/25/3395956/patterson-staying-loyal-to-big.html

Air Force officials are playing it safe: http://www.gazette.com/sports/gould-125602-force-mike.html

And the BYU rumors remain the same as they were days ago: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=rivals-1268216

For now, here’s a quick look at my updated percentage wheel regarding which team could be No. 10. Not a lot of movement from yesterday, with BYU and Louisville still sitting as the odds-on favorites.

  1. BYU - 48%
  2. Louisville - 20%
  3. TCU - 16%
  4. West Virginia - 9%
  5. Air Force - 5%
  6. Other - 2%

-- Remember, this is just the percentage wheel for these schools becoming the 10th member of the Big 12, not joining the conference altogether. --

OK, so now we can get on to examining something that I’ve heard a lot of talk about during this whole realignment mess.

As things moved closer and closer to the 16-team, superconference model that many still feel is inevitable, one question kept popping into my head — Why the love affair with the number 16?

Depending upon who I talked to, the answers varied. But it always seemed to come back to one thing — “It’s so the greedy can have as many as they want,” one source told me.

Another, with ties to the former Big Eight Conference, said this: “In the end, the Big Eight had it right. And when you go to 16, you end up with two divisions of eight.”

And last, another source had this to say when attempting to explain the magic number, which, by now, we all know multiplies by four to get 64, a somewhat important number in the world of college athletics: “Somebody out there dreamed that up once and now it’s almost like the administrators are trying to fulfill it.”

Great. Got it. Or....

Although 16 was the hot number for the past several weeks, it doesn’t appear that anyone is headed there any time soon.

The Pac-12 and Big Ten are happy with a dozen each. Despite the Pac-12’s flirtations with expansion, the league presidents made it clear that even though commissioner Larry Scott may have wanted to expand, the league was content at 12.

The Big Ten said as much a year ago when it added Nebraska. Jim Delany and company didn’t say so much as a peep this time around, so you can bet they’re happy at 12, as well.

The ACC, meanwhile, jumped head-first into expanding to 14 when it landed Syracuse and Pittsburgh seemingly out of nowhere. At the time, the move appeared to be the one that would get the superconference train chugging but, in the end, it was little more than a big splash that ultimately wound up calming the waters. Where the ACC goes from here is anyone’s guess. There’s still talk of UConn and Rutgers heading south but it’s hard to know for certain if the ACC wants to go that big and be forced to spread the pie that thin, especially now that the “but everybody’s doing it” excuse is kind of out the window.

Then there’s the SEC, which, thanks to the official addition of Texas A&M, sits at 13 teams and appears to be looking for a 14th. Missouri, West Virginia, TCU and others continue to dominate the talk. But if Mizzou elects to stay in the Big 12 — which is where I’m laying my money — and if the SEC really already turned WVU down once and if TCU can’t or won’t get out of the Big East, then what will the SEC do? Live with 13 or go big-game hunting? Let’s hope we don’t have to find out.

South Carolina president Harris Pastides said he wants the league to aggressively pursue a 14th team and then stop there. So much for the magic number 16.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2011/09/24/1750063/conference-realignment-south-carolina.html

That leaves the Big 12, which is down to nine, but may be on the lookout for one or three more to fill the void left by the departures of Colorado, Nebraska and A&M.

Berry Tramel, of The Daily Oklahoman, writes that the league’s best and only move is to get back to 12. http://newsok.com/big-12-needs-12-teams-not-10/article/3607661

We’ll know soon enough where the league stands in all of this. The guess here is that a move to get back to 10 will not take long and could be announced in the next few weeks.

If the league chooses to grow beyond 10, that’s good news for a lot of schools but especially Kansas, which would get the luxury of adding another non-conference game to its football schedule the way it used to in the old Big 12.

For now, though, we continue to wait. Wait on rumors to start, decisions to be made and stability to be forged. Of course, this time around, it all starts with Missouri.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/article_9f0a87cf-e7f5-5ca9-93dd-1b8294a33b3d.html

Stay tuned...

Comments

Hank Cross 3 years, 2 months ago

To me BYU and AFA would be the best options when you look at the total package of academics, athletics and fanbase. Also, although they're competitive they are also not going to threaten OU and UT in FB or KU in BB.

I also like getting to 12 with solid schools, because that way if the TX and OK schools ever do leave, KU would probably have a viable conference.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

I actually agree with you here. I don't like the idea of only going to 10 just so ut and ou can get more money from tv deals because at 10 if they leave with thier annoying little siblings that leaves the conference with maybe 6 schools if mizzou stays. Especially, since as long as the league doesn't dissolve KU and mizzou basically hold a bcs bid that they can wave around just like the big east is doing now.

Ted Adams 3 years, 2 months ago

FYI, the 6 BCS automatic bids are up for recalculation after this year, and the Mountainwest is going to give the Big East a serious run for that 6th bid. As much as I hate poaching teams from other conferences, the Big East (the 1A FB playing schools) is probably not going to make it. The BB playing bunch will stay together and probably most will play 1AA football. ACC will likely bring in Rutgers and UConn once some of the other 1A FB schools find a new home.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Yeah but the Big 12 will likely keep theirs for now which means if those schools bolted after this year or next the Big 12 would still retain that bid for at least a few years.

Ted Adams 3 years, 2 months ago

Is it possible that MU is flirting with the SEC solely for the purpose of getting the league to 12 and not 10 members? The logic being that MU has a much better chance of being relevant in the conference if they go back to divisions which isn't going to happen with 10 members.

I also wonder if TCU isn't in the mix here. Taking TCU as one of 3 or even 5 new members might be the chip that Texas has to give up to prove they aren't running solo anymore and are truly sold on the "all for one and one for all" in the Big XII.

How about BYU and TCU to the Southwest Division and Louisville, Cincinnati, and West Virginia to the Northeast Division of the New Big XII? 6 division games and 2 from the other division for football

BoiseHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I'd like to see KU add Louisville (great hoops program), Boise State (great football program) and BYU (good overall sports program). BYU and BSU would have travel partners and the Big 12 looks pretty stout. If the Tiggers flee the conference, replace them with Air Force, then the Big 12 has a serious mountain presence. Let's assume Missou leaves ...

NORTH

KU KSU ISU BYU BSU AF

SOUTH

OU OSU UT Tech Baylor Louisville

olathefbfan 3 years, 2 months ago

Maybe I'm the only one, but that blue turf that Boise State plays on makes those games almost unwatchable.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Mainly because you can't see boise st. players on it. It's like trying to find a green crayon in the jungle.

olathefbfan 3 years, 2 months ago

Well put. Nothing against the school itself, they have a heck of a FB program, but whoever approved that turf should be fired...if they haven't been already.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Although it is a heck of a home field advantage when the other team can't tell you from the field.

BoiseHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I hear this a lot but how is Boise State on their blue turf any different than Oregon, Michigan State or Hawaii?

Thomas Young 3 years, 2 months ago

BSU purposely matches their blue uniforms, jerseys and pants, to the blue on the turf. If they had white or orange pants, it would help a lot.

As it is, it is really hard for coaches to watch BSU on game film, and in game, the players can blend in enough that opponents can make poor decisions because they don't pick them up when everything is moving so fast on the field.

oldalum 3 years, 2 months ago

Didn't I read that the conference got so many complaints that they made a ruling that Boise couldn't wear their blue uniforms in home games?

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

unless it happened this year they were still wearing them at home games last year.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Must have happened this year I know they wore them last year....So then the question is what happens when they play air force at boise or another team that also wears blue....they can't make both teams where white.

pgittemeier09 3 years, 2 months ago

yes the person responsible for the blue turf was terminated this year

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

All I can say is if we go to 12 teams can we please adopt an SEC approach with playing your entire division, play one cross division rivalry and then 2 rotating cross division games. For example, they could put OU and OSU in the North with original big 8 with OU always having cross over rivalry with texas. This would help ensure that if we go back to divisons that schools like Iowa St., KU, K-state etc always play one major opponent who is regularly placed on tv each year, it also would improve their money earnings as well as competition. I want to see that just so we don't hear folks saying well all the power is in the south. Lets even the divisions with cross over rivalry games which, will make the conference better as well.

longhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't understand why adding a team to get to 10 would allow Kansas to add another nonconference football game. We're at 10 now and we only get three noncons. Why would it be any different in 2012? Are you assuming the new school wouldn't be in until 2013?

Matt Tait 3 years, 2 months ago

Meant to say 12 there... It's fixed now. Obviously 10 would be the round-robin with three non-con games. But 12 would likely take us back to divisions and you'd play five in your division and three in the other each year, leaving room for four non-con games.

Thanks for pointing that out.

MWShields 3 years, 2 months ago

Would prefer to see a format of a crossover rivalry game played every year leaving 3 or 4 non-con games depending on where your crossover game fell.

Eric Dawson 3 years, 2 months ago

Agree. Someone pointed out yesterday that OU and tu should be in separate divisions, and I think I like that idea. The RRR would be their crossover game.

Or go to 3 (or even 4) regional pods, with the pod leaders with the two best records playing in the conference title game. Still have a crossover rivalry as part of it. Assuming BYU, AFA and UL joined:

3 pods 1. BYU AFA KSU KU 2. UL ISU MU OU 3. OSU TT BU tu

4 pods
(driven strictly by region here) 1. BYU AFA KSU 2. tu BU TT 3. OU OSU KU (yeah, I know) 4. MU ISU UL (ditto) League could look at two crossover rivals in this configuration

For what I think are obvious reasons I would prefer a 3 pod setup.

First things first, though -- sign on to the revenue sharing plan to stabilize everything ASAP, then get 3 new guys.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Thank You! I've been saying for years to people that we should have done crossover rivalry. Think about it had the big 12 done this from the beginning they may have kept Nebraska because their rivalry with Oklahoma could have been every year not to mention then the divisions could have been evened out more for competitive nature.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Well if they add any Big East school then it's likely they won't get them till 2013 or 2014 with their mandatory 27 month heads up before leaving the conference.

AlecRaenos 3 years, 2 months ago

From a stability standpoint, 12 seems like the best number.

From a competitive standpoint, 8-10 is perfect.

selfishhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I think getting to 10 or 12 will be much tougher than everyone is contemplating right now. I understand that some of the schools would theoretically love to be part of the BCS conference. But a few things are problematic. First and foremost, I think we might be underestimating how damaged the conference is and appears right now. Why would BYU give up their independence to be a part of the Dysfunctional 9. Second, some of the schools mentioned may jepordize our BCS status. I recall reading that the Mountain West had a couple schools that really hurt their status as a potential BCS conference - Air Force was one of them. Finally, everybody assumes that our individual presidents are going to be okay with adding whoever, but just like the Pac 12 didn't want Okie St., some of our presidents may not want some of the proposed schools. Just food for thought.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

While everything you say is true the fact of the mater is that Texas and OU want as much money as they can get and under the current formula they may appear to get more but without the same market size as other conferences it really hurts the Big 12 network wise. Not to mention that adding 1-3 schools would ease some of the other schools fears and might stop a team from jumping conferences again next year. Also the MWC is much better now, however, the thing I think that keeps them from a BCS bid now is the fact that they are losing TCU and already lost Utah and BYU. I don't think AF had as much to do with it not getting it as much as it did losing 3 members and having teams like New Mexico and Wyoming on their roster.

Joseph Kuebel 3 years, 2 months ago

Yea, I see your point and agree. That's also why I believe a TCU addition seems like school that would be willing to leave the conference (that they haven't formally took part in competing against). They hopefully would challenge and could get away from the rath of the 27-month rule, although I believe the BE said they plan on holding TCU to BE standard (of a 27month of being held against your will in a conference with 6 other football teams).

From the standpoint of media deals AND public opinion: the B12 really should be trying to come up with BYU. BYU can keep a portion of their rights with their own TV deal already in place, and they seem to be the most logical fit. With A&M gone the Big12's biggest need is to get a school that can keep their current TV deal. Whatever school that is chosen to be added as the 10th team, it is necessary it can compete. I personally would like to see Louisville (for basketball reasons, as well as for smack talking w a Louisville buddy) but I don't think that would be the B12's choice for the public opinion of the league, the revenue stream (being both Louisville's revenue sports totals, and the revenue impact regarding tier 1 and 2 football contracts)...

Hope for BYU, or Boise. Hopefully both+Louisville!!

This will be interesting...

bradynsdad 3 years, 2 months ago

Matt is the revenue sharing plan that is being put into place more attractive to teams wanting to join the big twelve? Or does the big ten, sec and PAC 12 still have a better revenue plan?

BoiseHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

It sounds to me as if Tier 1 and 2 revenues will be shared equally and Tier 3 the schools get to keep. And since only UT and OU make more in Tier 3 revenues than KU does, that's the best possible deal for our school.

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

You have to be careful about "better". I think the Big XII is best served by the equal Tier 1 and 2, keep Tier 3 model. The B1G benefits from a loyal fanbase that is willing to watch sports other than football and basketball, such as hockey and wrestling. They are huge schools with huge alumni bases, that is why the network is so successful.

The PAC has a conference uniquely set up in paired division rivals that makes regional networks attractive to regional cable companies with the addition of large population centers. The PAC was in sorry shape before Scott came around. He promised them the moon... and delivered.

The Big XII has to learn to adapt into its financial model. Maybe Texas and BYU can have their own networks, and each for different reasons. I understand the Jayhawk Network is actually quite productive for us as well. In the future, however, perhaps MU, KU, KSU and ISU pool their resources together to form a "North Wind Network". That might be more attractive to regional distributors. Perhaps an internet access to the channel could be adapted for those outside of its borders. Maybe Air force, if they are added wants to be a part of that and it gets picked up by Armed Forces Networks?

Once we have some sense of stability, I think you'll see more creative ideas like this being brokered. Just because each school retains their own 3rd tier doesn't men you can't combine those 3rd tiers with others if it is more advantageous. You could actually show four games on that network where Texas only has one. You could show more basketball games, baseball games. You could have talk shows with round tables from each of the member schools, multiple coach's shows. I think there is a lot of possibility in that enterprise. The question might actually become, does KU want to share its 3rd Tier rights with KSU, MU and ISU?

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

You definitely prove a point there with the size of big 10 schools and its networks success. It is probably worth noting that schools in the Big 12 who have successful tier 3 deals are also very large schools such as KU and Texas with huge alumni and donor bases whereas others...I'm looking at you Iowa St. and K-State aren't nearly as large or have as big of a fan base as they both tend to play second fiddle to Iowa and KU.

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm starting to warm to Air Force, based mostly on their athletics profile, they would go right to the top of the conference in that regard. I think BYU really adds to the national profile of the conference, and then Louisville would help solidify our region and basketball profile. I don't know that any of them add a whole lot to football, but there just aren't many of those schools out there, and the ones that might, aren't close and have other detractors.

Obviously, Boise St has a great football program going, but everything else is small time: basketball, alumni, recruiting area. South Florida I really like, but they are stretching the boundaries as well. I just don't see those schools unless we expand beyond 12.

If we go to 10, then BYU would make the most sense because they can come right away. If we go to 12, then Air Force and Louisville.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

I agree I like AF too . Some people are down on them but in 49 years of football they average about 7 wins a year and are fairly consistent competition wise. BYU definitely raises the competition bar too and brings a pretty good fanbase.

jgkojak 3 years, 2 months ago

The down and dirty numbers that matter on realignment.

US News best college ranking, last seasons Sagarin basketball and current Sagarin football rating

SCHOOL...US NEWS...SAG BBALL...SAG FOOTBALL Texas=.....45...10...14
Baylor......75...77...29 mu...........90...40...38 isu...........97...87...42 ku............101...2...62 ou............101..123..2 osu..........132...67...7 ksu..........143...27...36 ttu............160..137..27

proposed members: byu..........71...8...53 cincinatti..143..18..47 Louisville...164.17..69

For comparison: Air Force...33..126..58 TCU=97 Co State=128 WVU=164 S Florida=181 New Mexico=181 Houston=unranked (ouch!) Memphis=unranked Boise St =unranked (#67 in w regional, below University of the Incarnate World in San Antonio) (no joke - that really is a school rated above Boise St) - Seems like the debate could be: BYU is a lock - then... do you add AF and TCU and go for academics (Top 100) and geography or do you add Louisville and Cinci and gain significant TV exposure or can you split the diff, and add AF and Louisville (who is basically tied with TTU)

Studogg 3 years, 2 months ago

Great breakdown there, jgkojak. That really put it in persepective. If i'm makin decisions, BYU should become #10 and AF and Louisville become #11 and #12. The more I think about it, the more I really like the looks of that potential conference.

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

Then don't participate. Its of extreme importance.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

I agree with CalHawk on the importance. Unfortunately regardless of how much we would like to pay attention to college football certain schools.....cough Whiner A&M, Pitt, Syracuse cough have dictated that conference realignment and money are now more important than the game itself.

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

The football press conference is up. See, they have enough people covering everything.

Texjayhawk007 3 years, 2 months ago

Max is an angel. He posted at 1111. The Legends game ended 111-111. Symetry :)

jgkojak 3 years, 2 months ago

If the B12 goes to 12, I'm really thinking Air Force should be in the mix with Louisville and BYU.

1) Gives BYU a travel partner/less isolation. 2) Gets the B12 back to Colorado (and, like BYU, into Pac 12 territory) 3) Brings, like BYU, a national audience, and being on services network internationally is kinda cool when you think about it 4) Absolutely no threat to recruiting football or basketball 5) The B12 needs a boutique academic school

Seems to make sense!

selfishhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I, too, am warming to AFA. But your geography needs some work. Provo and Colorado Springs are not close together. 530 miles, actually, which is roughly the same distance between Lawrence and Colorado Springs.

Also, not sure that AFA would jump, since they don't have the typical constraints and motivation of other universities - i.e., their funding comes from the feds and I don't think any of their students pay to go to school their.

Eric Dawson 3 years, 2 months ago

Cadets not only do not pay to go to the AFA (or the USMA or USNA), they actually get paid during their college career. http://www.usafa.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=9420

While many of the usual motivations and constraints do not exist for the service academies, they do all have endowment funds because "The Academy's mission is simply too important to leave to the vagaries of federal funding alone." (source: http://www.usafa.org/UE)

Imagine if they work things out so that their "excess" athletic revenues go toward that fund. That's a lot of funding (and possibly fewer demands on taxpayer funding) to consider when deciding whether to move to another conference or not.

Brian Skelly 3 years, 2 months ago

I do think 12 is the minimum. As from other posts, I'd be more for going all the way to 16, but I think anything short of 12 is simply cowtowing Boomer and Bevo.

I also agree with CalHawk that the idea of splitting up Tier 3 rights, remotely equally, is long gone. That train has left the station. A smaller % (20-30%) would be nice, but considering KU's hoops is one of the biggest benefactors of this, I dont know how it helps the Jayhawks. Id be up for sharing, for sharing sake if it keeps schools happy. But clearly Bevo has already spoken on this, and the LHN is why they are now here and not elsewhere.

The biggest question for KU is do they have the content (and $$$) to do a start up TV network of exclusive Jayhawk programing? As much as Id love to see that, my guess is the answer is no. How many times do you run replays of basketball games before the folks who've wanted to watch them have already done so? It does sound like there is movement, or at least interest in the Big 12 forming their own network(s). I guess we'll see.

As for us going to 12... I like the BYU, AF, Louisville idea. TCU is gonna be a hard sell, even though it makes total sense. UT's objections would be loudest, but my guess is others would be objected as well.

Regardless, this needs to happen. The wheels need to be in motion before years end.

142466 3 years, 2 months ago

I wonder if the remaining B12 schools are discussing the following premises and proposal.

  1. College football is heading towards 16 team (2 division) conferences, each conference with a championship game followed by a final four national tournament.

  2. If the B12 can get to 16 before the the national tournament is instituted and if UT and OU remain in the B12, the NCAA will have to include the B12 champ in the national tournament. Even if there are FIVE or, someday SIX, BCS leagues. With 5 BCS leagues and a final 5, the tournament would extend over 3 weeks, the first week being the wild card game. Which 2 of the 5 contenders would be wild cards? Determined by the BCS rankings, because the final 4 will probably be seeded in the same manner. The public, the traveling fan bases, and the TV networks would still desire to continue several of the existing bowl games, even though not a part of the final 4(5).

Therefore, get to 12 ASAP, without losing UT or OU, by adding 3 credible football schools. The NCAA, the 12 league members, and potential additional invitees will then conclude that the B12 will be included in the national tournament.

Then go from 12 to 16 before the national tournament is instituted. The B12(16) survives.

David Atchley 3 years, 2 months ago

The level playing field for all schools is television revenue and "BCS" bowl opportunities. The posturing among "State" schools has more panic and sense of urgency, simply because they have seen their endowments, contributions, ticket and merchandise sales, along with attendance dwindle during the current recession.

The difference the schools like BYU, Notre Dame, TCU, SMU, and service academies are affforded is their endowments come from their respective archdioeses, churchs, and in the case of Air Force, your U.S. government. As a result, they are looking solely at BCS opportunites and television network, more from a television viewer standpoint and not a revenue generator to bail-out their program.

LSHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

With all the above said the most important thing for KU to do is IMPROVE THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM!! We must get our program up to par with at least the mid tier programs in our conference. We can no longer just be a basketball school....

blindrabbit 3 years, 2 months ago

West Virginia Univ. in Morgantown continues to raise it's ugly head in Big12 realignment talk. It must be that someone wants to further dumb-down the conference. WVU is an Eastern school that none of the eastern conferences seem to want. If you had been to the campus and observed the fandom you would understand! why. (just think of Bob Huggins) Cincy and Louisville are urban schools, that are kinda Eastern and a bit "out of water" for us; like the Air Force, BYU, TCU talk though.

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't want TCU. That's a market the Big XII already owns and it gives Texas recruits another Texas school to choose from if they want to stay and play in the Big XII. OU has a bigger following in Dallas than TCU does.

I don't care if Louisville is a city school, so is UCLA. Louisville is a name brand, even if it is in basketball. Once all this realignment settles, I think you will see basketball rise in importance. If this 16 team mega conference thing ever comes to fruition, there's a good chance those big conferences will constitute their own basketball tournament, or at least try to get some of the pie. The ACC grabbed Syracuse and Pitt, hardly two football powerhouses, but they are name brands.

Louisville gets us into a new market and rivals us with the ACC in basketball prowess. The Louisville basketball program is rated by Forbes as one of the top 3 most valuable programs. Put them in the South Division and now you have two basketball powerhouses in each half of the Big XII. Remember, 1st Tier also includes basketball. If you have one of the decent schools, that's one thing, but Kansas and Louisville are different. Those 1st Tier games will make us more valuable as a conference once the TV 1st Tier contract comes up.

Sam Constance 3 years, 2 months ago

+1

Well argued. Agree with every word you said.

142466 3 years, 2 months ago

You make a good case for Louisville. I favor western expansion because that's where I live, but if the league adopts the strategy of going to 16 they'll probably go both east and west. Louisville would be near the top of any potential eastern invitee list.

Geographically, Louisville is probably acceptable. In the 1950's and 1960's Louisville was part of a highly regarded , fairly stable, MVC basketball league that included Wichita, and Cincinnati (with the Big O). By adding Louisville, then perhaps WVU becomes geographically eligible.

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

Like BYU, WVU is one of those strange ducks. I'd welcome WVU into our conference, but with some tangible assurances that they'd behave themselves and continue to increase their academic rigor.

kuhawks28 3 years, 2 months ago

The reason behind the talk of the four sixteen team conferences was this:

16 x 4 = 64 teams. The number of teams in the NCAA Basketball tournament.

With four sixteen team superconferences they could create their own basketball tournament that channeled money in a similar way to the football model.

Vernon Riggs 3 years, 2 months ago

Except now it 66 with two play-in games.

Sam Constance 3 years, 2 months ago

Great update Jesse. My favorite part:

[And last, another source had this to say when attempting to explain the magic number, which, by now, we all know multiplies by four to get 64, a somewhat important number in the world of college athletics: “Somebody out there dreamed that up once and now it’s almost like the administrators are trying to fulfill it.”]

I've been shouting from the mountaintops, since this whole realignment mess was restarted, that the 16-team, superconference idea was nothing more than an idea that sounded cool in theory (as a magic way to supercede the BCS), but it was a logistical nightmare and really nothing more than a pipe dream.

I mean, we're sitting here trying to guess (without much luck) what's happening amongst a NINE team conference within which each team has a different idea of how things should happen. Even if you have 4 separate 16-team conferences, the amount of collaboration and cooperation that would be necessary to circumvent the NCAA seems impossible. Not to mention the fact that circumventing the NCAA doesn't really bypass the BCS (a fact no one seems to understand).

I'm not really sure what's driving it, but there seems to be a lot of "grass is greener" behavior within college athletics these days. Between the completely baffling suggestions to take the NCAA tournament to 128 teams, to this mess with the four "superconferences", no one is satisfied with the status quo. Actually, more accurately--no one is satisfied with anything but a massive, shakeup of the status quo. To me, that's a maddening concept, considering that college athletics--at least when it comes to basketball and football--are super popular right now, and I'd hazard a guess that a fair number of sports fans in the U.S. would say they prefer collegiate to professional...

Michael Maris 3 years, 2 months ago

Forget adding BYU, add Central Florida (Orlando), Louisville and South Florida (Tampa).

Football teams fly chartered flights (to the Florida Schools). Fans can easily get to Orlando and Tampa via Southwest Airlines.

Add the Florida Recruiting base along with the Texas recruiting base.

Have Eastern and Western Divisions.

East

Central Florida Iowa State Kansas Louisville Missouri South Florida

West

Baylor Kansas State Oklahoma Oklahoma State Texas Texas Tech

Yeah, the travel might be tougher for Iowa State, K-State and Texas Tech fans (but the rest of the league can't help the fact that they are 2 hours away from major airports).

S. Florida and Missouri would automatically be the teams to consider for the Eastern Division Champs. Iowa State might be in that mix (as well).

Just some thoughts. Probably get beat up over the Central Florida suggestion. But, wouldn't Cincinnati and W. Virginia sure be ticked off if they got trumped by Central Florida? My understanding is that Central Florida has a pretty big Alumni Base

rockchalkfletch 3 years, 2 months ago

I love the idea of adding the 2 Florida schools

HawkfanNWichita 3 years, 2 months ago

Ok yeah I am crazy and a little too over patriotic at times but I always thought why not be aggressive and make our own 16 team conference and bring in all 3 service academies? I could see every 3rd year the Army vs Navy game down in Dallas and the exposure in the east coast markets for the league would be a plus as well.

I say give the SEC A&M for Arkansas as a fair swap. Arkansas has more to gain in the Big 12 than they do in the SEC they recruit the vast majority of their kids from Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas and Texas. Why not be in a league that gets you out on TV in those areas.

Bring in Tulsa and TCU and take your pick of the other Texas schools or perhaps go after Colorado State to get exposure in Colorado again.

Ok ok yeah I am crazy.

HawkfanNWichita 3 years, 2 months ago

I guess that the North and South would break down like this then in my crazy ramblings:

North Army Air Force Navy Kansas Kansas State Colorado State Iowa State Missouri

South Texas Texas Tech Baylor Oklahoma Oklahoma State Tulsa TCU Arkansas

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Ok I have to disagree with you on this. Arkansas won't leave the SEC as they have nice foothold there now and are becoming a perennial contender there. As for Tulsa, TCU and Colorado State they really don't add anything. Oklahoma has the city of Tulsa locked down, TCU is in DFW which is texas and OU territory, heck even KU has something like 8000 alumni there and colorado state is like the ignored little brother of Colorado and Air Force so they don't add anything as well other than size. At that point if we are adding solely for the purpose of conference size add SMU and Tulane instead....Tulane is a new footprint and a great academic school not to mention their games are in the LA superdome and SMU alum pretty much own everything in texas with all the money they have.

HawkfanNWichita 3 years, 2 months ago

Arkansas a perennial contender in the SEC where do you get that from?

Since 1998 they are 53 wins 49 losses in conference. They have gone to 10 bowls however but lost 7 of them.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

I said becoming which is a key word. And look at it they have improved over the past several years and since when has winning bowl games mattered. I mean Oklahoma until last year hadn't won a BCS bowl in ages and Whiner a&m hadn't won since 2001 but apparently they are a contender according to some folks.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Also i don't get why you say they would benefit from recruting by joining big 12. Almost their entire team now is from Arkansas and Texas already. With a smattering of players from elsewhere. Why join a conference when they aleady recruit well in texas its a mute point.

jphog 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm in Alabama and this morning I heard that the SEC is probably going to go after FSU or possibly Louisville if they can't get FSU. Basically by adding Texas A&M they will have enough votes (with Texas A&Ms) to get FSU in where they would have been vetoed before. Poor Missouri might not be as wanted as they hoped. Is anyone surprised?

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

If FSU goes to the SEC, then the ACC will need one more soon. Maybe UConn?

And then the ACC is firm again, or would they go for Rutgers and ???

Looks as if the raids on the Big East will continue. We should scoop up Louisville quickly.

jgkojak 3 years, 2 months ago

I can see Louisville being a reasonable fallback for them -

I'm still surprised it looks like the big loser in all this may be West Virginia- especially if UConn and Rutgers go ACC.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Does it surprise you. While this whole re-alignment thing is largely football dominated, academics do play a part as well as market size. WVA only has like what 2.5 million people and their academics are sub par. It's the same reason why in all this talk K-state and Iowa st. were looking at being left out.

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

"WVA only has like what 2.5 million people"

And no pro teams or other major universities. So lots of eyeballs at the WVU games and in front of their TVs.

Eric Dawson 3 years, 2 months ago

WV 2010 Census pop. was 1.9M. For comparison, KS was 2.8M

What has been a media draw for WVU sports is that they have a decent following in western Penn and eastern Ohio as well as WV.

When I lived in the region back in the day, the pro sports teams followed by residents were the Steelers, Browns, Colts in FB and Pirates and Orioles in baseball. Don't know what it's like today.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Yes but the key word is decent followings. The problem is that Penn as a whole is dominated by Penn St with Pitt eating up a lot of the rest and Ohio is a lot like Texas in that Ohio St runs the show there. On top of that the logic that no other major universities are around or pro teams is kinda defunct when you consider that the per capita income is only like 32000 there and most of the money is up in the border areas around pitt and DC. I lived in the area as well and worked with low income familys and of the 1.9 there are a whole lot who amazingly live without things that a lot of people here in kansas take for granted...like plumbing (no I'm not joking) so this being said 1.9M in WVA isn't exactly a huge market or selling point for many conferences when some of those eyeballs don't have TV's

Joseph Kuebel 3 years, 2 months ago

I agree with the size of the state but Iowa State is a pretty good academic institution.

jphog 3 years, 2 months ago

It's unknown how quickly A&M will get a vote though. Might be a year away. So we should try to go after the best fit for now and if they are comfortable waiting then Missouri will be forced to sign on for the next 6 years with everyone else and we'll be more stable.

I still think Air Force could be a good addition if they spend some of the money they get from being in the Big 12 on upgrading their basketball arena which is pretty small. I would like to get Colorado back in our footprint.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Ok so I know they are awful in football right now but I still say we should get Tulane. Great academic profile, in New Orleans, Plays in superdome (think about conference title games being there) not to mention that they recruit heavily in big 12 territory as well (Texas). Not to mention that just like Air Force they increase the Big 12 market footprint which is important when expanding.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Okay now that someone agrees with me lets call up Neinas and get him on Board with it.

Steve Brown 3 years, 2 months ago

The key markets in our conference are Houston, DFW, San Antonio, Austin. While I prefer Louiville for BB tradition and a new market, there are still advantages to TCU, A great flight from any member, for fans, and players families and a quick flight home for the student players. Sure didn't like the PAC talk with 3 hours flights. TCU brings a "new" section of an existing market, north central texas. It also blocks SEC from getting into DFW. TCU helps not hurts us recruiting Texas, playing there every other year.

Big 12 playing TCU home or away brings some TV share not currently tuned in to that channel. Also, no matter what happens to KU v MU or KState we aren't making the 6pm news in any texas market. TCU changes that for us and metro recruiting.

If UT doesn't like, that makes it good by me.

Just realized next year we aren't get to play Tad Boyle nor Turgeon, so sad.

jgkojak 3 years, 2 months ago

TV markets only matter if you can stake a claim to get your cable channel on the local systems - hence B10 interest in Rutgers - no one would watch, but it would force NYC/NJ cable systems to carry the B10.

Since we already have Texas, we don't need TCU for market share.

I do, however, think geographically, adding TCU fits nicely and gives our DFW area recruits/families a chance to see their kids play - important.

If I had my druthers, I'm probably going with BYU/TCU/AFA - adding 3 Top 100 academic institutions and 2 w/national stature-- not bad.

Hmmm...

EAST ISU MU KU KSU OU OSU
Keep all the old B-8 schools together for traditions sake - and wow - super nice travel -- only OU is more than a 3-4hr roadtrip for KU fans

WEST BYU AFA TTU Texas TCU Baylor Looks pretty balanced in bball and football

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

I still say TCU doesn't offer enough. We already have to fight Texas, Tech, and Baylor for those recruits. OU and OSU already recruit heavily there. A&M is taking the ones interested in the SEC now. Why on earth do we want to dilute our share of those Texas recruits even further? We're already behind Missouri for their favors. The North-Texas market is covered, we don't need to double down there. If we go back to 12 teams, the Conference Championship game will probably reconstitute in Dallas. We need to grow our market share.

tecuani 3 years, 2 months ago

More with the recruiting nonsense!

TCU already takes possible TX recruits from Kansas. Look at their rivals.com page if you don't believe me. TCU already gets better TX recruits than KS. They have more 3 star TX recruits and their 4 stars are from TX. It might affect KUs recruiting slightly, but not enough to keep us from adding a good football program to the conference.

Adding TCU will probably actually hurt the traditional "Texas" schools more than it will any of the schools that fight for the scraps, now that TCU has a legitimate chance at challenging Texas and Oklahoma every year from within the Big 12.

Adding a crap football team will do very little for the conference.

TCU is better than any other Big East school (with the exception of WVU maybe) for at least one HUGE reason:

Bowl Games. TCU has earned nearly $35 million in the last two years from bowl appearances. Granted that is because they were in two major bowl games, but had they been in the Big 12 or another BCS conference over the past 5 years, they would have earned as much as any other Big 12 team (with the exception of OU and UT probably.)

Adding TCU, you add a potential National Championship contender. That means a ton of money for everybody in the Big 12.

Having said that, I like Louisville. I like them a lot and if we go to 12, I think they should be a considered heavily. But if we are looking to move to 10 right now, you should go for the best available football program, and that is TCU.

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

I still disagree, and I don't like TCU. TCU may be headed back to the MWC before its all said and done.

Joseph Kuebel 3 years, 2 months ago

Tecuanu- I agree with the idea of recruits... Being that TCU would still get Texas recruits, and that OU and UT would be the schools whose recruits are affected. As stated the 3&4 star Texas kids do go to TCU already, its not as if they would create a "slim pickins" scenario by adding a brand new school and moving them into the conference. However I do have one disagreement, which is I feel that TCU wouldn't have been in a BCS bowl if they were in the B12 the past 2 yrs. The big 12 by adding TCU would add another contender, I feel that is completely undeniable. But, I do think that their spot in a BCS bowl would more likely be occupied by UT, OU, even OSU , TT, or MU... On the flip side of the coin, adding TCU would however add (obviously) another strong team to the conference bringing us more attention and should increase the BCS ranking. Thus creating a new argument that they could add an excess BCS game for themselves or another big12 team...

Sounds good. I STILL PREFER BYU, but TCU would not be a terrible idea either. I would not object to the add of boise, Louisville, wvu, TCU, or BYU. I'm still having trouble understanding the addition Air Force. I think that this is not a good idea whatsoever and would much rather see any of the above five teams mentioned.

hailtoku 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm sorry but is there any point in covering this as much as we do? You realize this story is going to change a hundred different ways and that there are a zillion different outcomes that could take place.

Why don't we cut back on these reports and make it an every Friday kind of thing. I mean really, it would something like this:

"We thought Louisville was going to come but then they backed out and that ended up not being true and then Missouri was going to go to the SEC but that ended up not being true and someone said something about Kentucky leaving the SEC and that's not true and now maybe BYU will go to the Big 12 but that probably will end up not being true".

All these updates are doing is freaking out our fan base. Let's play some football.

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

No one is forcing you to read this. Obviously, a lot of us do care about it. They are the most popular discussion items on the KUSports page. How this plays out directly affects the funding KU will receive, their positioning in big time college athletics as a basketball school in a football world, and through the increased revenues, more of an opportunity to try and build that football team. It may not be the actual athletics contests, but it is of extreme importance to everything we want KU to be.

It might be hard for people to believe, but we can keep tabs on more than one thing. It isn't like we're dogs watching a laser light dot on the wall, oblivious to everything else.

droppinplates 3 years, 2 months ago

Seems pretty obvious to me MU is not going anywhere, was probably never going anywhere, and has for some time. For some reason the media wants to continue to make it the new big drama in the conference alignment stories day after day. Why?

Kristen Downing 3 years, 2 months ago

Have you watched our football team?! We need something....

droppinplates 3 years, 2 months ago

Seems pretty obvious to me MU is not going anywhere, was probably never going anywhere, and has for some time. For some reason the media wants to continue to make it the new big drama in the conference alignment stories day after day. Why?

Steve Brown 3 years, 2 months ago

If it is true that UT is the major reason Buffs, Huskers, Aggies departed, then wouldn't it be sweet irony to bring in TCU the one team they don't 'prefer'?

texashawk10 3 years, 2 months ago

Only problem with that is that other schools in the Big 12 (not in Texas) don't want TCU either. As has been pointed out by many other on here, bringing in TCU doesn't add a new TV market and hurts mid and lower tier Big 12 schools in recruiting. Texas and OU are going to majority of the elite Texas prospects and everyone else will be fighting for the second tier prospects. Adding TCU brings in another school the will be going after many of the same Texas prospects that schools like Tech, Baylor, OSU, KU, and MU routinely go after. BYU gets most of their prospects from the western half of the US (a lot of Mormon athletes), Louisville and Cincinnati get most of their prospects from their region along as well as Florida. Air Force recruits nationally because they are a military academy.

Phoggin_Loud 3 years, 2 months ago

Also, if the Big XII is attempting to increase exposure wouldn't the Air Force Academy bring the armed forces network??

Matt, do you know how/if this would guarantee Big XII games being broadcast around the world & the impact of such?

Thanks.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

I brought this up too the other day but most tier 1 and tier 2 games for all schools are already broadcast on that network. The increased exposure would be due to the fact that our soldiers and vets are very loyal to their branches sports teams.

lama 3 years, 2 months ago

What's the status of the TV rights pledge -- has Mizzou agreed to this?

tecuani 3 years, 2 months ago

If I could have my dream three teams to get to 12 I would go with

Boise State Texas Christian Louisville

Talk about some exciting football seasons. =)

tecuani 3 years, 2 months ago

What profile?

The conference system revolves around sports, any idea to the contrary is nonsense. Football first, basketball second, everything else, meh.

Academics might have SOME implications, but only very little.

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

Once again, I disagree. I won't go over TCU again, but Boise St is a long ways away, has a small fan base, and isn't an area that is a recruiting hotbed. Further, it is a small population state divided with Nevada University. Sorry, let Boise St and TCU help take the BCS status away from the Big East, they don't fit well here.

142466 3 years, 2 months ago

Re Louisville: Their law school is ranked 98th, putting them in company with Mizzou, Pacific, and Chapman (of California). Louisville's law school is one of the oldest law schools in the country. It was genorously endowed by legal giant and Kentucky native, S. Ct. Justice Louis Brandeis. So overall, a mediocre ranking.

KU's law school ranks 79th in this same survey, close to to Oregon, Indiana, and New Mexico. Several decades ago, I know that KU had a significantly higher ranking.

Of course, a university's law school and medical school are only part of it's academic profile.

Because Louisville is relatively strong in sports, and geographically acceptable, compared to other potential eastern invitees, I think the B12 should seriously consider the Cardinals, especially if the other two new members (one of whom should be BYU) are academically stronger than Louisville.

Steve Brown 3 years, 2 months ago

MU have gone to the mattresses and is holding their TV rights for the first to call from the Gambini or Baras family since they learned Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes. As Michael said, it was a wise move, and what role Fredo had, is yet to be determined. But you can never speak against the family no matter what your relationships are in Havana. Hyman Roth on line one, wants a meeting.

142466 3 years, 2 months ago

Last minute PAC representative, Mickey Cohen, on line 2.

Michael Maris 3 years, 2 months ago

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/09/26/college.sports.firm.ap/index.html?sct=cf_t2_a5

So, DeLoss and Chuck are back being partners again?

Tell me how this information is good for the Big XII? I understand that DeLoss and Chuck have a history (already) from the old Big 8 days.

But, didn't OU want to get rid of Dan Beebe due to the fact that he was just a puppet for UT-Austin and family?

So, now Chuck is going to be doing the same thing?

Why would Chuck agree to be an advisor for a firm that would be in competition against Neinas's own company?

Advising schools on what coaches to hire, etc........... Isn't that what Chuck's company does?

The smell of Bevo is still in the Air. EXIT NOW.

Robert Brock 3 years, 2 months ago

The Big XII has lost three terrific schools. I don't want to replace them with crap. The only school that is available and capable of replacing one of the fallen is BYU. Take the Cougers and remain at 10 until worthy additions are willing to join the frail and grumpy Big XII. I am skeptical that the conference will last; Mizzou certainly does not seem to give off positive vibes about staying the course.

ltownatrain 3 years, 2 months ago

Ok if by terrific you mean academic then I'm with you there, however, athletically, we lost 2 good schools....colorado was crap. And if you do mean academically then like we have been saying add Tulane they are basically colorado southeast....they suck at most sports, have nice facilities and have stellar AAU academics. Oh and their students like to party as much as CU ones.

Torisen 3 years, 2 months ago

Wondering how much of the SEC stuff is a direct quote, because "The SEC league office has not initiated any talks" and "no school has applied for membership" doesn't rule out Missouri initiating talks but not yet formally applying.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 2 months ago

I am not a proponent of expansion (I would keep it at 9), but if we were to expand, I think the following:

Central Florida, South Florida Tulane, BYU Air Force, Navy, Army

There are your seven teams to get to 16.

All 7 bring new markets to television and no additional Texas Teams.

Let the Pods be figured out.

142466 3 years, 2 months ago

The new member(s) should be geographically compatible with the current B12 map. Nearly all (I think "all") current PAC, SEC, and B10 members aren't interested. The list of potential invitees to the B12 is, therefore, limited. So the league does have to consider Air Force and Rice. Tulane, though is too weak athletically, with little prospect of ever competing with SEC or Texas schools for recruits, to be seriously considered. The Big12 is not a charitable organization.

Pitthawk34 3 years, 2 months ago

I would take Louisville over the others. Rice? Rice is a small school and only good in baseball. Air Force yes but Rice? I would rather have UTEP over Rice.

Pitthawk34 3 years, 2 months ago

I have an Idea... lets not stop at Rice but bring in Texas State as well. Let's do it right and sink this conference even more than it is right now.

142466 3 years, 2 months ago

Adding UTEP would allow KU to avenge a March 12, 1966 KU loss that I will never forget. KU's JoJo White hit a second overtime buzzer- beating fade away jump shot to win the game. But the ref blew the call, ruling that he was out of bounds. As White hoisted the shot, the part of the court immediately below his elevated body was out of bounds, but he faded away without touching the OB line to get into that position. UTEP (then known as Texas Western) thereby advanced to the Final 4 and beat Kentucky for the title.

Another 1990's era loss by number 1 seeded KU to the Miners in the sweet 16 held in Kansas City is not so memorable.

However, UTEP will never be invited into the B12.

Krohnutz 3 years, 2 months ago

OK Matt, let me try to discuss this with you, and keep in mind that I think most people hear something catchy on TV and run with it.

"As things moved closer and closer to the 16-team, superconference model that many still feel is inevitable, one question kept popping into my head — Why the love affair with the number 16?"

Somebody, somewhere, most likely associated with ESPN believes that we are headed to 16. So Joe Bob tells Bobby Sue, and Bobby Sue calls Johny Awesome and then boom, everybody is saying we are headed to four sixteens.

Here is what the Nutz thinks: We are headed to either three 12's and two 16's, or we are headed for three 16's and two 12's.

There are some good football programs left out of the four sixteens, and somebody somewhere will throw in a football program even if it means travelling.

I can easily see the nation having a 16 man ACC, a 16 man SEC, and 12 members in the Big 12, Big 10 (change your name?), and the Pac 12. The Big East just dies, like it should.

But who knows.

Eric Dawson 3 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for the link. Will be interesting to get the results of the ongoing Big 12 AD meeting. Of course, they aren't the decision makers in this arena, the member presidents and chancellors are the Big Kahunas. Hopefully that group will be having another teleconference real soon and announcing member #10.

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

A really interesting interview of Louisville-area sports reporters:

Bozich & Crawford on Sports Sept. 27, 2011 http://www.courier-journal.com/

The video quit on me after 15 minutes, but the Big East is wringing its hands just like us, and it is fairly obvious that Louisville would jump on an invite from the Big 12.

Like us, they are concerned for their conference mates and also wondering why BB doesn't carry more weight.

teddibear 3 years, 2 months ago

I still don't understand why Memphis isn't part of the expansion talks. Memphis is the home office of Fed Ex, and FedEx has committed a significant amount of money to any BCS conference that will admit them. The BCS is all about football. Doesn't it make sense that FedEx will also put money behind the Memphis football program. And, wow, the conference would pick up a nationally ranked basketball program in the deal.

142466 3 years, 2 months ago

Memphis basketball is really pretty good. Admittedly, it's not consistently a top program. But KU and UT are the only current B12 bb programs that consistently excel. Several times during the last 40 years Memphis experienced brief periods of national basketball success. Successful enough to have their basketball coach accept the UCLA job, as Johnny Wooden's immediate successor. And they have a natural big city recruiting base.

Weak football and questionable academic performance, though, disqualify them from consideration as #10. Barely acceptable as #12, unless we have no other choice. As #15 or #16, they have a shot.

texashawk10 3 years, 2 months ago

Memphis will ranked ahead of KU when the preseason polls come out.

142466 3 years, 2 months ago

Maybe they are being considered, especially as part of the 16 mix. Geography--good, especially if paired with Louisville. Basketball--strong. Football--fair. These Tigers would initially settle near the B12 bottom, but, long term, wouldn't embarras the league. Academics--based on what I just googled, they're barely acceptable, on par with the SEC's bottom half.

Overall, I vote "no", for now. But investigate further and maintain contact. As the 15th or 16th member, Memphis could be worthy.

Angus0199 3 years, 2 months ago

BYUs going to be part of the B12 soon. AFA is a natural inclusion as well. They would rather be B12 and BEast. Would work great. With BYU, there comes an opportunity for Notre Dame. In the caos come opportunity,

olathefbfan 3 years, 2 months ago

From your postings over the past couple of weeks, you spend more time worrying about where KSU may ultimately land than the K-staters do. Get over it already.

KU must improve its football program. It's one of the worst of all the BCS programs, and likely won't win even one conference game this year. Crummy football mitigates any advantage of AAU for a B1G invite.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 2 months ago

Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss. State, and Colorado State.

FLJHK 3 years, 2 months ago

I agree Notre Dame is beyond any realistic hope. However, if the conference as a whole approached them and said we can offer something that no other conference can: an agreed upon different revenue model for Tier 3 monies if and only if, they came on board, I think it would be remiss to not at least have the conversation.

Otherwise, to get to 12 I'm OK with AFA, BYU and Louisville, although I would prefer Tulane or possibly Rice for at least one of the slots.

142466 3 years, 2 months ago

B12: continue to talk to N.D, until the Irish tell you to stop pestering them. Huge prize. With all the conference shake-ups anticipated over the next few years, you never really know for sure until all is settled.

teddibear 3 years, 2 months ago

Over a year ago, the president of FedEx offered $5 million a year for 5 years to a BCS conference that would bring Memphis to their conference. I agree that their football program is currently weak, but look at the BB recruits since Calipari left, and they have been outrecruiting KU.

Andy Tweedy 3 years, 2 months ago

Their athletic profile is probably as good as ours. Other than basketball, we aren't very good at much of anything else. I hate that's the truth, but it is.

Dale Stringer 3 years, 2 months ago

Here is a different approve to division in a 12+ team conference that I would like... every two years, let the two schools with the worse combined sports record draft the other schools into their division. We'd use the records from some or even every sport that all schools participate in. I'm thinking football, M & W basketball, baseball and softball. For football, you would play everyone in your division (5 games), 3 teams from the other division and 4 non-conference. I would also make rivalry pairs (etc. MU-KU, OU-OSU) so if they don't end up in the same division, they would be guaranteed to play each other in one of the 3 cross-division games.

FLJHK 3 years, 2 months ago

Two primary reasons:

  1. Academics. It should be noted that all of the schools poached by other conferences (Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, Syracuse, Pittsburgh and A&M are all academically strong. The most stable conferences have solid academic schools).

  2. Nice extension of the conference footprint into a new state and market, a great city, and a foothold in SEC country. New Orleans!!!

Tulane's athletics are not strong, but would inevitably improve with the resources available by inclusion in an AQ conference.

The funk factor of bringing in Tulane would be large.

DallasJayhawk1 3 years, 2 months ago

Look I travel to NOLA for work have clients there (the main hospital systems and also Tulane Medical Center) and go there for weekend trips as well (only an hour flight from Dallas). One of my favorite cities.

1) Conference expansion is not about AAU status. It's about dollars. Utah, Pitt, Cuse and Nebraska are academically strong ? Those are middle of the pack like we are, Mizzery, etc.

2) New Orleans itself is not a hotbed for football talent. Most of LSU's roster is from other parts of LA or from out of state.

DallasJayhawk1 3 years, 2 months ago

1) They all were "AAU members in the past 2 years"--so, sounds like some aren't now. This is not about AAU--again, it's about revenue

2) You obviously don't know much about New Orleans, the cities in LA or the SEC. Very few rosters in the SEC have kids from New Orleans. Kenner, Metairie, etc--they are not hot beds for football. The comment previous was we will be in the center of SEC country. New Orleans is not the center of SEC country.

Tulane would be a nice add down the road if we expand to 16. Not now. Do you think the Big 12 is going to say "And our 1st school we are going to add is . . . Tulane !" Be realistic. The Pac was never going to happened and neither will Tulane.

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

Look, academics are great, but these are athletic conferences, these are the real reasons these schools were asked:

Nebraska - Football brand name

Colorado - Alumni base; Denver

Utah -Alumni base; Salt Lake City

Syracuse - basketball brand name, New York

Pittsburgh - basketball, football, Pittsburgh

A&M - football, large alumni, Texas

Academics is not going to bring more eyes, and thus greater market share, and thus more revenue. Very few people care about the academic profile. Do you really think the SEC is stable and rich because of their academic profile?

If we someday go to 16, then maybe, but Tulane is not a first choice school for an athletics conference.

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

Yes, but your argument is that we select a school with almost no athletic accomplishments solely because of their academics, that's the problem. People don't watch Tulane. Athletes in Louisiana aren't going to go to Big XII schools because Tulane has already taken their fill and they have nowhere else to go.

tecuani 3 years, 2 months ago

Haha, we finally agree on something CalHawk!

Robert Brock 3 years, 2 months ago

Maybe, too justify visits to the French Quarter or Commander's Palace in the Garden District. Sure wouldn't have anything to do with football or basketball...

southwindjay 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm just glad we finally have someone who is on the offensive rather than a defensive position.

Travis Clementsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

Offense looks a lot better, but will have to score almost every possession to give KU a chance. Dorsey will help out immensely but the overall defense is still pretty sad. Texas Tech represents the moment whether we can compete in this conference and the GT game was a bit of an anomaly (not that we would have won it, just not lost as bad), or the defense is just too much to overcome in a very strong Big XII conference this year. Does that about sum it up?

Look, I don't go to the football posts complaining why we don't talk about realignment or basketball there. I'm pumped for the opportunity this weekend, I hope the Jayhawks show some resilience, but I'm sorry that I am concerned about the future of the conference.

tecuani 3 years, 2 months ago

Hmm, why no updates Matt?

Neinas spoke today, something I found interesting...

"Neinas had said last week that there was "resistance" from some existing members to adding teams from Texas.

"I'd say that's changed," he said."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gpIh46rV8hM9EOmaoFzqq3fsGqWA?docId=1a7cde082dc8406aacc43595bb87f0d4

Uh oh, TCU anyone....hmmm?

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

Orangebloods,com says the same. UT now wants TCU. To help them control the votes?

TCU is bound to the Big East for a couple of years, so they don't help us get back to 10 next year.

tecuani 3 years, 2 months ago

The stuff I am reading about TCU is that they will come next year, and not take part in the Big East at all. Perhaps that is dependent on whether the Big East is even a conference next year.

jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

"The Real Politik of Tait's Big 12 Candidates"

BYU - is the most important university in the state with the most subsurface mineral rights that are being bargained away to help burn off some of the national debt and these subsurface mineral interests would ideally belong in a coalition of states with similarly staggering subsurface mineral interests that also just happen to comprise a Super Corridor conference called the Big 12. Otherwise, there is but modest benefit and a lot of travel cost to adding BYU, not to mention it is in a useless time zone for marketing purposes. But mutual subsurface mineral interests make BYU a great fit with Big 12 super corridor and coal tracking conference. The state of Utah has put Utah U into the Pac 12 to give it a pork conduit for all things Colorado/Green River basin related. The state of Utah can now place BYU in the Big 12 for all things pork related to subsurface mineral rights issues shared in common with the Big 12 states (for the uninitiated, this means coal layers and coal tracking, plus natural gas developed by the tracking).

Louisville - The Super Corridor's Northeast stem right of way is mostly likely to go up the Ohio River valley on the south bank to avoid blockage by the Big Ten States on the north bank. To go through Kentucky, you have to get at least Louisville U and the parimutuel and insurance interests in Louisville on board. The UK could also join down the road, but one or the other is a must get to land the right of way.

TCU - a pre-emptive grab for the Dallas Ft Worth TV market to use to make a future UTAustin departure more affordable, and to deny a significant share of that TV market to, say, the SEC.

jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

West Virginia - The super corridor's northeast stem has to go through West Virginia after Kentucky on its way through either Pennsylvannia, or north east Maryland on its way to New Jersey and Uncle Vinny's truck line. West Virginia is a must get for the super corridor conference called the Big 12.

Other 1.0- this is a euphemism for one of the key Pennsylvannia schools and/or the University of Maryland. Why? Because after the northeast stem of the Super Corridor passes through Kentucky and West Virginia, it has to either go through Pennsylvannia and/or Maryland to get to New Jersey. The Big Ten states know this; that is why Penn State was added some years ago. And this is why Maryland of the ACC is dangling themselves in front of the Big Ten presently. Joining the Big Ten preemptively would prevent them from having to be absorbed into the super corridor conference called the Big 12. The University of Maryland is clearly not wanting to fall victim to the deep politics of the super corridor, but by the same token this implies that there probably are very important factions in Maryland's oligarchy that would be receptive to the northeast stem of super corridor being routed through Maryland. Pork has awesome powers of persuasion.

Other 2.0-If the Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas oil-igarchy apparently are going to prepare to frack coal all over Basin and Range country from New Mexico to Canada, and feed it into pipeline laterals off the Keystone XL pipeline running from Canada's Tar Sands to Texas refineries, well, they've pretty much got to get hold of at least one of the major universities in each of the Basin and Range states for a pork conduit. They let Boulder Juco realign, because Colorado needed a pork conduit for the Colorado River basin politics. So they've probably got to look at adding Colorado State to the Big 12, unless the Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas oil-igarchy is already using the Mountain West the same way it uses the Big 12. New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, and the Dakotas all really need to have at least one of their state universities in the coal tracking conference (Mountain West) and the super corridor conference (the Big 12). It remains to be seen whether the oil-garchy decides if pork barreling can be streamlined by merging the Mountain West and Big 12, or if they are better kept separate. If BYU enters the Big 12, it could be that coal tracking and super corridor functions could be converging, which could drive a merger of these seemingly otherwise unrelated conferences.

Conferences are only secondarily about sports and television revenues.

Conferences are foremost coalitions of state pork barreling conduits called universities that share common political economic interests in infrastructure, natural resources and commerce.

And that's the rest of the story IMHO, and its all opining and speculation as usual.

jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Note: my spell checker, or the KUSports.com spell checker has mistakenly altered "fracking" to "tracking."

Fracking refers to "fracturing" targeted subsurface mineral layers by means of high pressure injection of fluids into, or under those layers to trigger fracturing, or cracking, of those layers of, say, coal, so that those layers release, say, gas that can then be refined for energy use.

jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

Second note: Vast areas of the state of Kansas could be fracked in order to release coal gas from the extensive coal layers beneath Kansas. Use that coal gas to refine tar sands liquid bitumin and throw in some of the extensive near tar crude oil under places like Kansas, and well you've got a more economic proposition. Bottom line, the tar sands in Canada are not remotely economical to extract and refine on their own, because they require a vast supply of cheap energy to power their piping and refining into useable petroleum products in Texas. But the tar sands, and near tar crude from Canada to Texas, if combined with cheap coal gas accessed by fracking? That dog might hunt. :-)

BarkingHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Anyone heard KU to ACC buzz? Seems to be alive on some other cites.

Hank Cross 3 years, 2 months ago

TCU would make some sense as it would deny the SEC another beachhead in TX.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 2 months ago

In the past I was concerned about letting other Texas schools in the conference as I was thinking about the effect on recruiting. Now, I am not so sure about that. I think A&M going to the SEC could have more of an effect. Otherwise, I think getting the best football schools we can to replace the loss of NU and TAMU is the best course of action. Therefore, I like TCU, BYU and Boise and don't particularly care who else. West Virginia to the East might be a bit of a stretch though. Don't think we want to go in both directions. Louisville surprises me that it would be considered as it is a Metro school. I don't know much about it but it does not excite me. Colorado State, Air Force, SMU? Heck, add em all. But I think local may be the best thing. Maybe those last 3 plus TCU and one of the distant schools to get us to 14 should end the talk of dissolution for some time. If MU does end up leaving add another, but get everyone on board, approved, all details worked out except for pulling the trigger. Get everyone pre-approved with the idea that there would be expansion two by two.

tecuani 3 years, 2 months ago

Am with you on the addition of TCU, BYU and Boise. With those three schools you add the best "available" football schools that aren't already in AQ conferences.

Louisville, surprisingly, has a decent fan base even compared to Kentucky in some parts of their region.

I think 14 would be a good number. I like CSU, simply because they beat CU on a regular basis. AFA would be another great addition, something about watching guys who know they aren't going pro and might end up in Afghanistan or Iraq run around and play with guys who's only wish is to go pro and are too busy chasing tail or getting arrested and having the AFA guys come out on top. As for SMU, I know so little about the school, but from what I hear, they are impressive. Private school with an excellent football tradition.

tecuani 3 years, 2 months ago

Actually, I would have reservations about SMU simply from a lack of consistent bowl appearances. it looks like they are turning it around, but perhaps they should be considered, but maybe at a second phase of expansion.

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

Yes, they will. The only questions are 1) with whom and 2) when. Then the next question is 3) will they go to 16?

WVU is their best choice after an ACC team like FSU. But MU is in the running, if they want to be.

But MU fans, and KCMO businesses, must become aware and very vocal that if MU bolts, the Border War is dead. Without a batt of an eye, KU ended the longest running FB series west of the Mississippi, vs. NU, when that team bolted for the B1G.

The Big 12 BB Tournament will not be renewed (and if possible, the 2012+ contract voided) for the Sprint Center, and permanently moved to OKC and or Dallas. KU, KSU, and ISU will stop scheduling FB games in Arrowhead. Long term, OP and KCKS will move to build competing facilities. The Royals and Chiefs will suffer a little too as KS fans ask "why am I supporting a MO team?" as the KC-area MO/KS family slowly divorces.

So, call your friends and the administrators at MU, and the MO Governor and legislature. Tell them "The bird in the hand for MU is the Big 12. There's two in the bush in the SEC, but there's four in the Big 10. So for the sake of the Border War, KC, MO, the Big 12, and for keeping the path to the Big 10 wide open, stay in and fix the Big 12!" And then work with KU to make the MU/KU-pair irresistible to the Big 10 when, not if, they expand again.

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