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Realignment Today: 7:19 p.m. - Reports say UT, Texas Tech, OU and Okie State headed west; KU?

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7:19 p.m. Update:

I'm hearing now that reports of the Texas and Oklahoma foursome heading west may be a little premature. That is to say, at this point, it's not a done deal, though it certainly still could happen.

The sources I talked with tonight did not specify what that meant or how that involved Kansas. Just that reports of anything being final were putting the cart ahead of the horse in a bunch of different ways.

It's clear that tomorrow is a huge day for the Big 12, with the OU and UT regents both meeting.

As the end of this wild day approaches, many in the Big 12 still believe that the conference can live on. Waiting on pins and needles to hear what comes out of Austin and Norman tomorrow.

Stay tuned...

5:54 p.m. Update:

Just a bit of analysis regarding the stance that KU would be "fine" when the dust settled and my constant reminder of that.

It's my belief that that stance was developed without the knowledge of a potential move by Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC, which now has happened. That, along with the possibility that UConn and Rutgers could follow, could be the thing that changes the tune for KU in all this, though not necessarily for the worse.

I'm sure that many, both at KU and on the outside, believed that the Big East would always be there as a fallback option. With the Big East on the verge of becoming a shell of what it once was, that might not be the case any longer.

So what now?

A couple of options still exist.

  1. The Texas and Oklahoma 4 go west, Missouri goes SEC and the four remaining Big 12 schools combine with what's left of the Big East to form some kind of conference. KU, K-State, Iowa State, Baylor, TCU, Louisville, Cincinnati, South Florida and whoever else wants to get into a BCS conference - BYU, Air Force, SMU, who knows. Obviously this is not the preferred outcome.

  2. With everyone expanding around them, a few of their Big East targets headed to the ACC and the ACC making it even tougher, financially, for schools to leave, the Big Ten may have to give a real hard look at KU and MU here. Both would accept an offer on the spot. With that in mind, maybe the B1G really turns up the heat on Notre Dame and makes the Irish an offer they can't refuse. With those three in tow, the fourth team is irrelevant. If this comes true — and it could — it would without question be one of the biggest and best things to ever happen to KU's athletic department.

  3. Lastly, there still exists the chance that the Pac-12 or even ACC would explore the idea of expanding to 18 or 20 simply because the KU/MU package remains out there and of interest to many. Not a real good shot of this happening, but it can't be ignored, either.

Stay tuned...

5:21 p.m. Update:

Kirk Bohls, of the Austin American-Statesman, sent out a Tweet just a few minutes ago that said, "I really can't see anything derailing Texas-to-Pac12 at this point."

Bohls has been all over this thing from the UT angle throughout and I'd bet good money that he's dead on here, too.

Not real sure what this means for the rest of the Big 12 schools but it's not good news for the Big 12 as a conference.

Most likely scenario continues to be UT, Tech, OU and OSU to the Pac-12.

Beyond that, it's all up in the air.

Based on those who I've talked with and sources I've contacted throughout the past couple of weeks, I've long held the belief that KU would wind up wherever Texas did. That's still in play here. That's also just a read on my part.

I'm not sure yet how it would or could get done. Perhaps KU beats out Tech for the spot in the Pac-12. Perhaps UT and OU have talked the Pac into going for 18 and adding KU and MU (or K-State), too.

A little more than a week ago, talk of the Pac-12 expanding to 18 or even 20 was out there. You never know.

Still working. Stay tuned...

3:19 p.m Update:

Here are a few links about the ACC's movement and the rumors regarding a whole bunch of Big 12 schools.

This from the Charlotte Observer in the heart of ACC country: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/09/18/2618930/fsu-president-confirms-pitt-syracuse.html

The latest from Orangebloods.com: http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1266871

Here's Kirk Bohls' latest report that says UT to the Pac-12 "heating up" http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/entries/2011/09/18/official_potent.html

And the latest blog from The Oklahoman's Berry Tramel, who introduces West Virginia as the Big 12's last hope: http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2011/09/18/big-12-football-west-virginia-is-the-final-hope/

Stay tuned...

2:53 p.m. Update:

Now that the ACC has opened the door, conference realignment is in full swing.

Sunday has been as wild a day as we've had in a long time in this mess and, go figure, the latest reports regarding the Big 12 have us right back where we started.

Both Kirk Bohls, of the Austin Amercian-Statesman, and Chip Brown, of Orangebloods.com, have put out reports that say Texas is likely headed to the Pac-12 and will be taking Texas Tech with them. Those two, reports say, will join OU and Oklahoma State out west and Missouri is now rumored to be going to the SEC.

That's a lot of action for one day and leaves Kansas with a bunch of questions.

Although sources close to the university have said that KU continues to hold out hope for the Big 12, reports have indicated that the Jayhawks have "other options" and that, if things continue to move quickly, Kansas may have to jump on one of those.

I just got back to Lawrence from Atlanta so lemme bang around and find a few links to get you up to speed. Just wanted to update you on the latest in this wild story.

Stay tuned...

7:07 a.m. Update:

Saturday was the first day in at least 72 hours in which we had real, actual, tangible, relevant news regarding conference realignment.

And it came out of nowhere.

Although it had been reported many times that the ACC was involved to some level in the whole realignment mess, almost nobody expected the league to be the one that made the first move.

Today, at 8:30, that’s exactly what is expected to happen when the ACC hosts a rare Sunday morning news conference at which it is expected that league officials will announce the addition of Big East schools Syracuse and Pittsburgh to the league. The details of the move remain to be seen but it’s not so much things like when Syracuse and Pitt will begin play in the ACC or what kind of exit fees they’ll face for leaving the Big East that people will be focusing on.

No, most everyone’s focus from here on out will be on which conference will step into the ring next.

Will it be the Pac-12, which has had Oklahoma and Oklahoma State on its radar for weeks now? Will it be the SEC with another team from the Big East or perhaps even Florida State or Missouri? Or will it be the Big Ten?

Of course, around here, all of those questions are secondary to the big one of what will happen to the Jayhawks? Saturday morning, an ACC official told me that Texas and Kansas had been targeted as the 15th and 16th members of the ACC. By Saturday night, that talk had cooled considerably.

The defections of Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC could be good news for KU regarding possible openings in the Big Ten. Of course, the Big Ten will have to want to expand to for that to go anywhere and they’ve given no real indication that they’re dying to do that.

Then there’s always the old fallback plan of the Big East, which looks a lot less attractive with Pitt and Syracuse gone. Think about it: If OU and OSU go west and Texas and Texas Tech join them (yep, that’s still possible) then that will leave KU, K-State, Missouri, Baylor and Iowa State to fend for themselves, with the most likely scenario having them combine with what’s left of the Big East to form a decent but not spectacular combo league.

Sources close to KU said late Saturday that Kansas remained eager to learn what OU would announce on Monday, when the Sooners’ board of regents are scheduled to meet. UT’s regents also are scheduled to meet Monday.

While we wait, and while I fly home from Atlanta, here are a few links from late Saturday night that help shed some light on the questions we’re now facing. Most of them are questions we’ve asked before, but it’s funny how even those seem to take on new light from day to day.

Here’s this from Kirk Bohls of the Austin American-Statesman regarding Texas and the Pac-12: http://www.statesman.com/sports/collegefootball/pac-12-commissioner-addresses-conference-realignment-amid-swirling-1864259.html

Here’s a story from the Chicago Tribune that reveals Notre Dame’s surprise at Saturday’s news from the Big East: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-notre-dame-ad-swarbrick-big-east-turmoil-a-surprise-20110917,0,4068299.story

Here’s a little more about how the move by Syracuse and Pitt developed: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2011-09-17/acc-approves-syracuse-pittsburgh-big-east/50448806/1

Here’s a story from Pete Thamel, of the New York Times, that says Congress may be ready to get involved. The story surfaced early Sunday morning: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/sports/ncaafootball/congressional-scrutiny-of-conference-realignment-is-said-to-be-likely.html?_r=1

And, finally, here’s a statement from Big East commissioner John Marinatto about the expected loss of two long-time members and the future of the now weakened Big East Conference:

“Although I was obviously very disappointed to learn the news about the ACC’s being in discussions about membership with the University of Pittsburgh and Syracuse University, I continue to believe the Big East Conference is well positioned for the future and that the events of the past 24 hours will unify our membership," Marinatto said. "We have been working steadily to solidify and strengthen the Big East Conference and position us for our upcoming TV negotiations and I am confident that we will again emerge from this situation and remain strong."

I’ll try to update this again after landing back in Lawrence. But, for now, it looks like the big day will be Monday.

Stay tuned...

Comments

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Have a safe trip back.

This does put ND in a bit pickle, especially if the FB leftovers of the Big East merge with the forlorn four or five of the Big 12.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

I would imagine that Missouri will have a standing offer to the SEC, it just has to wait until OU defects, so the Big XII dissolves and the SEC can honor their agreement.

I also think it is highly unlikely now that FSU would agree to a $20 MM buyout and than turn and leave.

I am interested to see where UT is going, because ultimately I believe that is where KU is going.

I find it hard to believe that the PAC 12 and UT are going to figure out the Network thing.

Who else is the ACC targeting? If UT and KU could be there 15 and 16, if UT doesn't go would MU and KU become their options or would they just stretch the coast with other teams.

Who is the Big Ten targeting, they have to be thinking just like all the schools.

I also find it amazing that everyone pretends like the SEC has stopped at #13, they will add 3 more.

Ultimately, the ACC needs 2, Big Ten needs 4, PAC 4, and SEC 3 more teams.

Let's see those lists. I'm guessing KU is on most every list, it might just be not the 1st or 2nd on the list, and depending on what other things happen will define what happens to us.

I'd be happiest with the Big Ten, ACC, PAC, and SEC, of course that order, but it would be best if we were in the same conference as UT.

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

If everyone were to write out their own conference realignment they will realize that there is room for KU in one of the four 16 team power conferences. Assume that the four will be the SEC, ACC, B1G, and PAC 12.

With Texas A&M the SEC has 13 and to get to 16 they'd look at Missouri, Clemson, W Virginia, Florida State (although Florida can veto them. An existing SEC school can veto the addition of another school in the same state. Word is S Carolina would OK the addition of Clemson if they want to pay the $20 million exit fee from the ACC)

It looks like the PAC will add at least OU and OSU to be at 14 teams. If Texas and the PAC do not come to an agreement on the LHN that leaves 2 spots with KU, KSU, MU, Texas Tech. (A stretch would be Boise St, New Mexico or another Mountain West Conf team - don't see that scenerio).

Yesterday morning the ACC looked like the best option with Texas and KU to be the 15th and 16th teams but now that doesn't look as strong. With the ACC alowing the LHN this has to be the best option for Texas. And I continue to read that T Tech is the partner is this deal. The worst possibility for KU is that the ACC expands with two more Big East teams. We need conferences to expand using Big 12 teams. We still have to remember that the Big East only has W Virginia as a power football team, which I belive will go to the SEC. If the ACC adds UConn and/or Rutgers it's for the NY market and UConn basketball.

And finally the best for last. The B1G. Everyone knows Notre Dame is the prize and with the departure of Pitt and 'Cuse this could be more of a reality. With Syracuse gone options have narrowed to W Virginia and I've heard Georgia Tech (again $20 million buy out plays in). If they were to land ND and W Virginia they could look east to Rutgers or UConn (if the ACC doesn't pick them up and if they don't you'd have to believe there is a spot for Texas and KU). Or they could look to MU and KU which would be the best fit for KU. A western division of KU, MU, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Northwestern. Beautiful!

The kicker school is W Virginia. If they go to the SEC, KU will land in the PAC, ACC or B1G. With football driving the realignment we have to be happy in any one of the four power conferences.

LaJHawk666 8 years, 2 months ago

West Virginia is not an AAU school, which would normally mean they wouldn't be invited. Of course, all bets are off. KU should do everything it can to get into B1G. Overall this is a disaster for college sports.

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

Someone needs to inform me on what a AAU school is. Is the Big 10 the only conference that wouldn't invite an AAU school?

jgkojak 8 years, 2 months ago

B10 not interested in inviting non-AAu schools (meaning no Syracuse or West Virginia).

The B10 has long wanted Rutgers, but Rutgers may decide to join the ACC if they have all of their neighbors (UConn, Syracuse, Boston College) and an easier football conference - if the ACC is THE premier league in the NYC/PA,NJ/DC metro area, they essentially cover a good 40% of the US population and will command top $$ for a network deal - so any incentives the B10 has for $$ won't matter.

This is great for KU, again, because if the B10 needs to get to 16, KU and MU are suddenly high on their list.

LJD230 8 years, 2 months ago

Mr. Keegan:

Please note:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/sports/big-east-exit-is-said-to-begin-for-syracuse-and-pittsburgh.html?ref=sports

NOT ONE MENTION OF KANSAS!

A little less speculation, gossip mongering and more fact based reporting would be appreciated.

Unless other conferences require a football door mat, Kansas brings NOTHING to the table for the PAC12, SEC or ACC. This is all about football. After yesterday's debacle, who would want us?

hawksince51 8 years, 2 months ago

I read the article and there is one mention of Kansas. However, it was only in reference to MU wanting to be in the conference with us. I would agree that is not a very positive mention of Kansas. As you suggest, MU may want to have KU to kick around in football even though somehow we have always managed to keep the series pretty even. Also, Keegan didn't write the above article. While Tait has kept a pretty positive spin on this subject (100% chance that KU ends up in a BCS conference), I think he has stayed pretty objective.

Bville Hawk 8 years, 2 months ago

There are very few facts at this time and they have been reported thoroughly. Everything else is just speculation...

huskerpower 8 years, 2 months ago

Seriously, if you are going to call someone out by name for poor journalism, you might want to make sure you know who wrote the article...

Tate has done a hell of a job of summarizing the best of the "rumor mill." If you don't feel his information is valid, please go elsewhere...

kureader 8 years, 2 months ago

The article you mention was written by an East Coast sportswriter. Yeah, he doesn't mention Kansas, but he doesn't mention a number of Big 12 schools. And he doesn't mention the other Big East or ACC schools who might be switching conferences. There wasn't any new information in this article.

chriz 8 years, 2 months ago

I have to think Bill Self wants us to be in a stable conference quickly so that we can land Tarc.

sm5561 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt - How significant is the ACC's $20 Million buyout? It seems that would take the ACC teams off the table for Big10 and SEC. But it's not getting a whole lot of coverage so maybe it's not that significant.

If ACC teams are off the table I would think the Big 10 is a real possibility for KU, when they're ready to expand. Do we just stick it out in Big 12/BEast merger until B10 calls?

RockChalkWoody 8 years, 2 months ago

I think we better jump at the first offer that comes along. The idea of the remaining Big 12 and Big East members forming a hybrid conference makes me sick.

sm5561 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree. I wouldn't turn down any offer for the big 4 conferences hoping a better one comes along. I think we'll eventually be fine, but if B10 doesn't expand for a couple years (when TV contract expires) and ACC stops at 14 then we may just have to be patient.

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

Clearly, $20 million is nothing to sneeze at, but those who I have talked to about it say this thing is big enough and important enough that some teams — some, not all — may be willing to bite the bullet on the payout to make sure they're in the conference they want to be in.

This whole deal is unlike anything we've ever seen. Schools, including Kansas, are going to do whatever it takes to make sure they land in the best possible spot. Regardless of money, tradition, ties or geography.

pepper_bar 8 years, 2 months ago

Reminder: KU can't afford to buy their way out of the Big XII.

pepper_bar 8 years, 2 months ago

Your personal disagreement with me doesn't make me a "troll."

JayBoi2011 8 years, 2 months ago

There won't be a big 12 to buy out of by monday, so it won't be a problem.

AcesWild 8 years, 2 months ago

matt this conf has been dead for two years i been waiting for ou, tu.they are in the pack 12..kansas is still waiting for them to decide.why kansas is waiting on ou & tu to make there decition the pack 12 conf and the acc will be filled..and kansas fan,s do not want hear with tu and ou gone that ther gonna some how make the big eight !!and would like to know have they appied at any of these conf !!or are they just wanting on ou and tu..HOW STUPID CAN YOU GET.. kansas fan,s would like some kind of explantion besides kansas waiting to collect buy out fee,s

Laurence Cooley 8 years, 2 months ago

i think the acc buyout is a pretty big deal, which is why they made it so high. isnt it weird how this happened without anyone knowing about it? came out of left field and smacked everyone in the face. i think the pac, big ten and sec all have to respond in these next few weeks. it will start with oklahoma's announcement on monday.

Mike Barnhart 8 years, 2 months ago

MU & KU to Big 10 would be perfect. A division including KU, MU, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota is great regionally.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

Who would be the other 3 out of curiousity? Assume ND and Rutgers (I guess)

Eric Dawson 8 years, 2 months ago

Just my opinion, but I'd put money on the ACC not losing anyone and also picking up Rutgers and UConn to get to 16 and grab most of the east coast media presence. Reports yesterday had the ACC pursuing both.

LJD230 8 years, 2 months ago

KU football will be the doormat of whichever conference wants it. Being a football patsy is all KU brings to any major realignments.

BoiseHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Only if you're thinking short-term and lack imagination.

Four 16-team conferences is what we're headed toward. When that happens, those four conferences will kick the NCAA to the curb. And when THAT happens, basketball revenue is back on the table again, which makes KU a major player.

ashmole 8 years, 2 months ago

Folks just need to get their minds around the fact that the Big 10 is not happening for a bit player like KU. With the Big East now melting down, the possibility of a conference combining the Big East leftovers with the Big XII leftovers is all too real. Expect a couple other of the class programs in the Big East to flee (think West Virgina) and you are left with a rag-tag bunch of mediocre programs in weak markets. A slightly better Conference USA, in other words. It won't be able to attract hot properties like ND or BYU and it will lose that BCS automatic bid, probably sooner rather than later. It will be a decent basketball conference, but then, so is the MAC. Not a pretty picture for poor old leaderless, punchless KU.

sm5561 8 years, 2 months ago

I used to think the B10 was not realistic too. If you believe the B10 is eventually going to 16 teams, who do you think they would take? If ACC teams are off the table (and UConn and Rutgers rumored to be ACC targets) I don't see that they have a lot of choices.

sm5561 8 years, 2 months ago

And don't discount the fact that we're a good research university. Big 10 gets a LOT of research money and if we can add to that pie then we may be more attractive than some schools.

Laurence Cooley 8 years, 2 months ago

good golly, i understand being a realist, but some of you guys are just pure pessimists! its ridiculous how negative some of you are. i get, we lost yesterday and it wasnt pretty by any means, but i think that pitt and syracuse just proved to the world that you can be very active in realignment and not have any significant news out about it. there were no reports on them two going to or even considering the acc and now they are members. the smarter schools are being quiet about their intentions and that is what will be the best tactic at the end of the day. aTm was very vocal and it has gotten them anywhere but stuck in purgatory and mu was extremely vocal last year and it got them left out in the cold. before we say we are dead in the water, lets let all this play out. Tait will back me up on this one.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Just hear on an ESPN radio report that the ACC is now targeting Rutgers and UConn.

Laurence Cooley 8 years, 2 months ago

espn also said that texas was on their list. i take what i hear on espn with a grain of salt usually.

chriz 8 years, 2 months ago

Why don't we offer the ACC our school where we agree to spot one team a win each year in basketball. That will keep things even and make their conference look better. :)

Ashwin Rao 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree. We need to take charge of this and NOT depend on others to make a decision. It is kind of a chess game. Given the state of affairs, if we are accepted by ACC (or wherever), it will set the ball in motion again, and cause others to panic too and leave. That will leave with NO Big 12, hence there should not be an exit fee... (That is my assumption, but someone chime in if someone/group/company is still getting fat with the exit fees!)

Hammertoe 8 years, 2 months ago

Not a good day for KU when a boxer with the Jayhawk logo on his trunks gets sucker punched. Maybe that's a omen to conference realignment?

ahpersecoachingexperience 8 years, 2 months ago

I went 6-1 yesterday! Thanks Turner (sarcasim). My favorite was when gt scored on three straight plays and and two of them were the same play.

Oh...realignment

Why does everyone keep saying the big east is a good fall back when we know it's the next conference to get picked off and become a mid major 51% Play D1 hoops and D2 football. We have unfinished business with ndsu 34% You guys realize the B1G doesn't have to expand just for the sake of doing so 14% Should of paid more attention in math class 8% Can't this just be done already 1%

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 2 months ago

Photograph of KU defender tackling a Techster 0.5%.

CaramelMacchMan 8 years, 2 months ago

"If i was 50 years younger, i would kick your A*S." -Larry Merchant PRICELESS

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

Your stealing my quotes ahperse. I said a long time ago the Big East "is the next conference to get picked off."

1timbob 8 years, 2 months ago

Bottom line. If KU ends up in a crap conference, I just don't know what kind of fan I can be. Why would I go to games or see KU vs an ISU every week. How boring. KU better make it a big conference their fan base is at risk.

pepper_bar 8 years, 2 months ago

The only person who hasn't been using that line all week is Tom Keegan.

Eric Dawson 8 years, 2 months ago

For those who have been crying that they haven't read anything or seen any signs of any kind that Gray-Little and Zenger are working hard on this, the ACC news today should be a revelation in how things can most effectively be done -- sub-rosa stealth. "Out of left field" news indeed! Congratulations to the ACC leadership for its bold moves, and best of luck to it in securing Rutgers and UConn to ensure keeping their conference together while keeping the Big Ten's market presence on the east coast at a minimum.

Here's hoping KU's leaders can bring our alma mater in for a soft landing. Unfortunately, for that to happen really hangs on whether or not the B1G, SEC decide to go to 16 teams. If they don't, or they stop at 14, it's gonna get sticky for ol' KU.

JayBoi2011 8 years, 2 months ago

Pitt and Cuse came out of left field because the Big East wasn't getting hacked like the Big 12 is right now. They can be quiet, because right now, they are with a secure (before) conference and can play under the scenes. We are floating on a sinking ship and need to be making a giant S.O.S. sign and sending out flares to every conference on the map willing to take us. It's too late for behind the scenes. We are the scene. Scene of a murder.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Big lawsuit the last time ACC poached the Big East, and the Big East won big.

If Rutgers and UConn want to go to the ACC, and the SEC wants WVa, then Louisville, Cincinnati, and TCU to the Big12-? makes sense. And either merge-in the non-FB schools, or bet yet keep them as the Big East, but with joint BB schedule with the Big 12-?? to keep everyone happy. Western (Big 12) BB tourney in KC, eastern at MSG, and final game either somewhere in-between or alternating between the two sites.

And KU/MU/KSU just bides it time in the Big 12 until ND and the Big 10 come calling.

Laurence Cooley 8 years, 2 months ago

ksu to the big ten? thats not very logical. they dont have the academics. if rutgers goes to the acc, the big ten would have missed on the two schools they needed to land to solidify their presence on the east coast; rutgers and syracuse (syracuse was a long shot if you keep the AAU status requirement in mind, but they left the AAU the same year that nebraska was booted). i do not see the big ten taking ksu, they dont offer a large enough market which is also the problem with isu (an AAU member). so for the big ten to expand to 16, a ku/mu combo seems logical (dont know how logical it is to delany) but beyond that, to keep their AAU trend, they are going to have to get creative.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Hopefully MU will stick with us, as a more attractive package deal for the Big 10. But they could jump to the SEC, and become much less attractive to the Big 10 for various reasons. KSU is a long shot, but weirder things are happening.

FLJHK 8 years, 2 months ago

I do find it desirable to maintain those historic rivalries that do still remain. The Border War with MU is one fully under-appreciated on the national stage, but it has a history rivaled by few. Our battles with K-State are a source of great in-state pride, and any game played against a common foe over many decades has its own charms and memories. I also dispute the notion that a rivalry has to have some measure of equality to be significant. Though we have regularly been thrashed historically in football by Nebraska and Oklahoma, it has made those times of victory all that much sweeter.

But there are alternative valid reasons to hope for the survival of the Big 12, from both regional and national perspectives. Not to get overly political here, but I find it at least interesting that at the same time that the disparity in national wealth distribution has reached historic levels, and the middle class dwindles, a movement is afoot to concentrate athletic privileges ($) to fewer schools.

The apparent desire among the unknown powers that be, a loose affiliation of certain media interests, large universities and marketing entities, has seemingly decreed that the path to (economic) glory rests in the formation of four, 16-team super-conferences. Those four would establish a means for a four-team playoff system to determine a national football champion. The dollars that would accrue to those affiliated with the super-conferences would ultimately be enormous, and would relegate all other universities engaged in athletic competition to second tier status. Other college sports would immediately take a back seat to football, considerably more than that which exists even today. And even more tragic is the academic side of things. Particularly among public universities, the dollars that flow through research collaborations among conference-affiliated universities are at great risk.

phoggedin 8 years, 2 months ago

Since the optimism of yesterday morning, KU's options seem to have dwindled substantially. With Orangebloods making it clear that the Pac-12 is still an option for Texas (the Longhorn Network hasn't killed that possibility yet), KU is likely among the group left standing when this game of musical chairs is over.

If the ACC has decided to focus solely on East Coast schools (UConn and Rutgers are next, according to USA Today), then that's not an option for the Jayhawks.

If the Pac-12 goes to 16 with the OK and Texas schools, KU is also left out.

I'm assuming the SEC expands with West Virginia as the 14th school. If they go to 16, Missouri is on the list.

The B1G may now have a realistic shot at Notre Dame, with Missouri as the 14th school.

If the ACC, B1G, and SEC stop at 14, we're in big, big trouble. If those leagues go to 16, our only realistic hope is going to the B1G as the 15th or 16th school. I was extremely optimistic yesterday morning. This morning, I think KU is in serious jeopardy of being left out or in a "leftovers league" that would not likely have BCS status. I suppose the good news is that the landscape can change in a heartbeat. Let's hope it does so in ways that benefit KU.

FLJHK 8 years, 2 months ago

One should not underestimate the implications for a school like Kansas. Our chief national basketball rivals such as Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Florida, Arizona and UCLA will prosper by riding the economic coattails of football-rich conferences. If we are not in a super-conference, our effort to remain elite will become more and more difficult, despite the greatest basketball tradition in the country.

But my question is essentially this: why should there be only 64-members to this super-conference entity? Why not 80 or 96 or even better, 128 universities? In the NCAA tournament, the Cinderella story is often the most compelling. By broadening the field, a more democratic outcome is achieved. (I believe the NCAA tourney field has > 300 member institutions). Isn’t the message conveyed in Hoosiers more compelling than another Alabama national championship? Wouldn’t an Iowa State winning the Big 12 be more interesting than another title by Oklahoma?

If one views college athletics as essentially a quasi-pro league, then I guess 64 teams in a super-conference setting should be acceptable. But I reject that notion. It would be nice to see the concept of a student-athlete reintroduced. I’d like to see similar universities within geographically defined regions form conference affiliations that work for the benefit of all members. I’d like to see geography and history and tradition again become a part of the equation. I’d like to see opportunities spread to a broader audience of universities. I’d like to see the opportunity for the little guy to succeed against all odds. What can be more American than that?

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 2 months ago

What's more American than that you ask? Greed, which is everything our country stands for now. The big get bigger and the smaller get screwed. Amateur athletics (I can't believe I just typed that) is the latest form of consolidation which leaves many behind. It has been happening in industry for more than 30 years, and now it's come to college athletics.

I'm surprised that it took this long to correct, and I'm also sick about it.

Steve Yeakel 8 years, 2 months ago

Good move by ACC to ensure its survival by raising exit fees to $20 million and to add Pitt and Syracuse, they were in a competition with Big 12 and Big East to survive and just won. Very scary times for KU, KSU, and Mizzou.

holbigmac 8 years, 2 months ago

Does it bother anyone else but me that KU is "reactive" rather than "proactive!" Is there any leadership at KU at all? Several decades of intentionally not taking football serious has us in a world of hurt! I'm worried about where we're going! What conference is Washburn in?

Ashwin Rao 8 years, 2 months ago

I have the same feeling... that we seem to be following people and not taking control of the situation by doing something about it. It is not the end of the world, but will soon be if we sit back and let people come to us while others are taking proactive steps to move to their destination conferences. We need to be the disruptors for a change!

FLJHK 8 years, 2 months ago

Folks probably assumed Syracuse and Pitt were being "reactive" until yesterday. None of us really know what is going on behind the scenes.

hawksince51 8 years, 2 months ago

I have no basis for knowing whether KU is reactive or proactive. Yesterday's bolt out of the blue with 'Cuse and Pitt' going to the ACC shows that some school Administrators choose to work behind the scenes rather than tip their hand to the press, their fans, and fellow conference members. I sincerely hope that is the case with KU because yesterday's moves also show how risky it is to be reactive and have options disappear.

1timbob 8 years, 2 months ago

I've been wondering the same thing holbigmac. It bothers me too! Because of it I'm scared.

hawksfanatic 8 years, 2 months ago

Absolutely. It has bothered me for years that KU has not taken football seriously. "Oh, we're a basketball school," is all I heard. Can one really compare the revenues generated by 16,000 fans as opposed to 100,000 fans. And, it appears, that the KU administration is doing nothing to change this situation. We are going to be left out in the cold because of little to no foresight on the part of our administration.

troutsee 8 years, 2 months ago

I absolutely agree with you. Poor, poor leadership by prior AD's and Chancellors has led to us being content with being a BB school only with very little resources and effort being directed toward the FB program until it was too late. We are going to be left out. Yesterday's beatdown did not help our situation a bit either. Too bad because KU is a great school with a lot to offer but all sports except for BB have been treated like stepchildren and now we are seeing the results.

1timbob 8 years, 2 months ago

Yeah Bob Fredrick is to blame there. He put all the money into a basketball program that didn't need the help instead of getting rid of that track and expanding football. I remember getting free tickets to KU football games when we would buy hotdogs. Before they finally put in a video screen the football stadium looked like a high school stadium and still does. Thanks a lot BOB you got what you wanted and now you might end up losing basketball with it.

1timbob 8 years, 2 months ago

I get to the point where I get sick of KU fans because they love KU basketball." I'm football 1st basketball 2nd. "

David Atchley 8 years, 2 months ago

Perhaps you could pass along some of those savvy marketing techniques to the current Athletic Department...seems they still haven't found what the incentive is to attend a football game...when there are as many people on the "Hill" watching for free..as there is in the stands...that's called "tradition" by some...its lost revenue when it comes to trying to make your football program remotely attractive to any Conference.

The reason KU has been able to fly under the radar all these years in football, is you had Texas, OU, Nebraska and some of the others carrying the load. When basketball season rolled around, those schools could care less about basketball, but they thought it was "nice" that Kansas could represent the Conference in the "off" season.

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 2 months ago

I've finally given in to the fact nobody really knows what's going to happen, not orangebloods, not Dennis Dodd, nobody! I give up!!!

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Yes, it's a big scramble with no overall plan. The ACC, SEC, and PAC-12 are in the drivers' seats, with the Big 12 and Big East getting poached. The Big 10 on the sidelines, appearing to take a nap for now.

Billy Blanks 8 years, 2 months ago

Missouri did this last year with the B1G, how did that work out for them?

Those three schools had back-channel invitations prior to publically asking for admittance.

The only bold thing KU COULD have done was throw millions at a 80,000 cap. stadium and all the football trimmings and hope that would improve the team and following over time.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

mangino does not have a clue. needs to stick to the buffet line.

AlecRaenos 8 years, 2 months ago

Im not sure how Kansas can make a bold move like aTm, Cuse or Pitt.

aTm offers a strong football tradition and in-road into Texas.

Cuse and Pitt both offer markets (Pittsburgh and New York).

Kansas offers...neither.

kureignman 8 years, 2 months ago

Yeah I suppose the PAC 12 is just waiting for the first school to just ask. I wonder why San Diego St hasn't come out and publicly said they want to join the PAC 12 if it's a first come first serve kind of deal.

kureignman 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm just saying you make it seem so simple like all we need to do is ask first. It doesn't work that way.

I would love for you to think before posting, I think we would hear less from you that way.

chriz 8 years, 2 months ago

I hate to say it, but all I really care about is KU basketball. Why can't our basketball team join a "BCS" conference, similar to what TCU did with football?

chriz 8 years, 2 months ago

In fact, it seems like I've heard Bill Self say something like, "The Kansas 'basketball' team is gonna be fine."

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Well ... TCU is in a pickle now too. Big East FB is / will be nonviable once Pitt and Syracuse leave. So either we pick up TCU (and Louisville and Cincinnati) or TCU goes back to the MWC. I'm assuming WVa goes to the SEC, and Rutgers / UConn go to the ACC or possibly the Big 10.

But the Big 12-?, with or without UT, could be quite competitive if we bring in those Big East FB schools and others, like BYU, SMU, and Tulsa, and / or we merge with all or the eastern part of the MWC. Along with a deal with the Big East-FB on BB.

Then we improve our FB team and facilities and wait, hopefully with MU, for a call from the Big 10. And leaving KSU, ISU, Baylor, and maybe TTU in a good, strong FB and BB conference, if not taken to the Big 10.

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

LogicMan, do you ever go to basketball games? Do you follow how important recruiting is in hoops? Do you know that we only get to have 15 players?

Do you think that Bill Self can recruit national championship caliber players in a league comprised of...

K-State, Iowa State, Baylor, SMU, Tulsa?

Think people. This is NOT big-time. This is mid-major.

chriz 8 years, 2 months ago

That's the thing. For the football program, I don't really give a crap. So long as our schools can remain to be split into two conferences.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

This realignment is not about BB, it's all about FB. If we don't get picked up by one of the big 4 superconferences, we're in deep trouble.

If so, we and our remaining Big 12-? members must make the best of it. Grabbing FB teams from the Big East,etc., will be the best we survivors can do. On the BB side, the Big 12 making an alliance with the Big East-FB schools makes sense -- forming a super, super BB conference and keeping us exposed to the eastern BB recruiting market. And avoiding financial and legal ugliness for taking away their FB teams which we may need for as early as next season.

1timbob 8 years, 2 months ago

Your missing the big picture chriz. If KU doesn't get into a big conference (it's not about basketball it's about football) then their basketball program will fold. Football is where the money is and you have yourself and all Jayhawk fans like you (including the university) that put basketball ahead of football. KU should've been working on getting rid of that track and increasing/building a football program. I hate to say it but Lew Perkins would have been the only AD that would have done that. Bob Fredrick is at fault here. Bob always put the money in basketball and now he might have just killed a university because of it.

chriz 8 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, I understand the power of football, but is the strength of our basketball program really the football program? In other words, how much does our basketball program depend on our football program? Wouldn't it be possible that someone would, for instance, take TCU's football program and OUR basketball program and leave their bball and our fball teams in the dust? Or do the mega-conference situations not allow that?

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

Bob really didn't put much $$$ in anything.

JayBoi2011 8 years, 2 months ago

Ok. Basketball makes a ton of money. A ton. Just not for conferences like football does. We make a ton of money from basketball, but you have to remember that it's not that much compared to the conference payout with football, and a BCS automatic bid. Without that money, our basketball team eats it, as it loses recruits to teams with bigger money (aka Kentucky) and probably bill self along with it, who would definitely take a job at OK state if it was offered over a non BCS kansas. That's why getting into a top tier conference is necessary.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Possible good news. There's 'a growing sense that the ACC would expand to the SW w/UT and TT if it expands' - which it will. http://blogs.mycentraljersey.com/rutgers/2011/09/18/report-rutgers-an-option-if-acc-adds-more/

That may explain why the ACC didn't expand to 16 yesterday with UConn and Rutgers and end the war on their part immediately and on terms favorable to them.

UT and TT to the ACC means an almost certain KU invite to the Pac at sometime.

Laurence Cooley 8 years, 2 months ago

i heard that the acc already said no to tech because of their lacking academic profile. but if this is true, the maybe the pac is where we could land

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, it was the Orangebloods report that said the ACC cooled on Texas when Texas wanted to take Tech with them.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Contra UT/TT to ACC: http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/9 /18/2432966/acc-expansion-texas-rumors-basketball-tournament The interesting thing about this piece is that it talks about the ACC tourney being held on alternate years in MSG. Of course that would mean that the BE was no longer in existence, thus perhaps a signal that UConn and Rutgers will be part of the ACC.

If UConn and Rutgers go to the ACC, the odds of an eventual B1G invite to KU go up b/c that conference won't have anyone else in the BE to pick from to get to 16. The B1G won't have any interest in USF, Cin, or L'Ville.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Yes. Makes sense that easterners would want only easterners in the Atlantic Coast Conference.

So either UT is dreaming, in denial, or using the ACC talk against the PAC-12 and Big 10.

But UT will have to give up the LHN as it exists. So why not now and keep OU, OSU, and maybe TAMU in the Big 12?

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

I read where Mike Alden, MU AD, was "surprised" at the Pitt/Syracuse news.

Can any AD afford to be surprised? Who would say that?

My hope is that our AD is doing his job and was not surprised. Information is the key to winning in this environment.

I really .. really .. hope we are being proactive an attempting to secure our place in the another conference. Pac-12, ACC, or Big 10. The big four players now are those three, plus the SEC. Until each of those conferences eventually secures 16 teams, any other conference will be unstable. Which means a Big East landing spot will be subject to whim of the big 4 conferences, as they continue expansion.

We don't know what's going on behind the scenes. But the active, aggressive schools in this battle will come out in the best spots.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

"Can any AD afford to be surprised? Who would say that?"

I thought this myself. They were surprised because everybody has been so out and open, honestly laying out their intentions?

ParisHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

No way KU can be in the first wave of realigning schools. We have to wait our turn. I'm sure we are jostling to get the best possible place in line and / or grab hold of whatever coattails we can, even if they are Bevo's.

We could reasonably be the 15th or 16th school for B1G, ACC or PAC. Let's just hope everybody goes to 16.

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

Don't agree AT ALL. KU could have been bold, just like Syracuse and Pitt. If we worked with the PAC on getting the 13th slot, it would have killed the Big12 just like when OU pulls the trigger tomorrow.

OU and OSU would quickly become PAC #14 and #15.

PAC then invites Texas to be #16, and if they blink... MU, if they blink... K-State.

See the PAC doesn't have as many options for expansion. This is where KU had the only leverage. Now we've missed it.

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

It looks like KU leadership (BGL and Zenger) has missed the boat big-time. This has been my biggest fear, having seen nothing from either one of them since they've been here but a bunch of rah-rah. I REALLY hope I'm wrong, as this could be devastating for KU and I'm talking about the franchise... BASKETBALL. And we're are going to see in very quickly, as it's going to signficantly effect recruiting. If we don't land in one of the big four conference, kiss Perry and Tarc goodbye.

In my view, it was clear that the play for KU was a pre-emptive move to the PAC.

When you looked at the realignment landscape, there were 16 slots available, and 22 team competing for them.

The 16 slots are 4 each in the PAC, SEC, BIG, ACC (it was clear that these would be the survivors).

The 22 teams are the current members of the Big12 and BigE, + ND, BYU, TCU, Boise. It was also clear that these conferences were/are doomed. That's why everytime someone (including Keegan and Matt) seemed to either advocate or predict the BigE, it made me sick. Now it might be playing out.

We know a little more about how the 22 slots getting are competing for the 16 slots than we did two weeks ago. It looks to be unfolding like this...

ACC: Adds Syracuse, Pitt, UConn, Rutgers. SEC: Adds A&M, West Virginia (last two not yet well defined). PAC: Adds OU, OSU, Texas, Texas Tech (we crapped the bed on this big). BIG: Adds ND (last three not yet well defined).

I'm pissed about the PAC. I really believe we could have gotton a PAC slot, and gotten in front of TTech if our leaders would have been bold (see Pitt and Syracuse). The PAC would have liked this, as they don't want TTech. Now that looks like it's off the table.

So here's where we are... 11 teams for 5 slots (2 in SEC, 3 in BIG)

But for KU, our only shot is the BIG (we're not going to SEC). What happens in the SEC, may effect our chances in the BIG (see Missouri).

The only good news in this is that the BIG may have lost their opportunity for footprints in the the East. Our "hail mary" might now be...

BIG: Adds ND, MU, KU, ISU (last three AAU schools).

I know most folks don't see this as attractive to the BIG. They're probably right, but we better pray that they are not. And that the BIG warms to the idea of a real midwest conference.

If they don't and we end up in the BigE (which will be temporary) with K-State, Iowa State, Cinci, Louisville, S. Florida, TCU (Missouri will have other options), then you will see a swift and dramatic drop-off in BBall recruiting. Probably this fall. Followed by our coach leaving in the next couple of years. He will be a good soldier early on, but will soon see that he can't recruit well enough in this pathetic "Conference USA look-alike" conference to compete in the big leagues.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

You're assuming too much. You're assuming their are 16 spots, and that's a big assumption with the B1G. The B1G appears content to wait on Notre Dame. Notre Dame appears content to try and ride out their status as an independent. The B1G appears a little hamstrung by their FOX partner to be able to renegotiate their BTN, so they are not in a hurry to divide their money pie, "just because". They could probably force a renegotiation with the addition of Texas or Notre Dame because of the revenue they could bring in, but not Missouri or Kansas.

That means we could be floating in obscurity for 2-4 years down the road until the B1G decides it is going to expand and that it hopefully expands all the way to 16. That's a long time. We'll probably lose Self in that time period and we won't have Texas recruiting for football any longer. We'll look even less attractive in 2-4 years than we do right now.

This isn't a leadership at KU issue. Its a perfect storm of exactly what Kansas doesn't have: football, markets, and population.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

You are exactly correct. Not a leadership issue but a perfect storm. We missed the boat 20 years ago when Monty left and Bob moved in. No forsight in marketing and cut costs cut cost ..... you never grow just cutting costs. Marketing was zero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully the leadership (AND i BELIEVE IN THEM) can pull us out of the toilet before we get flushed down.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

trey, I think you have an inflated idea of just how much sway Kansas holds. Nobody else looks at Kansas as a "deal breaker". KU offers what? Half of KC? Basketball? The ability to bring KSU? I just can't fathom exactly what you are expecting the leadership at KU to have done in this situation. Here's the scenario of KU being proactive with the PAC:

KU: We want to be in the PAC!

PAC: OK, we'll note your interest.

KU: Have you seen our basketball program?

PAC: You know this is about football and market share, right?

KU: We could bring KSU.

PAC: Don't weaken your position.

KU: But, we're ready to go now!

PAC: Yeah, I got a couple of southern properties with football and big markets to check on first, then maybe I'll give you a call.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

Those aren't the main factors in realignment. I'm not saying KU has nothing, they just don't have the things that are driving realignment. AAU status is a nice "bonus" to most big sports conferences, not a deal breaker. Same with basketball. What are you going to do, bribe a conference with some of that endowment money?

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

OK, fine KU does bring "something". But, if it isn't the something that drives realignment, why are we discussing it here?

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

Yes, but you're assuming certain spots. Nobody has said 16 has to be the number. Conferences could stop at 14. The B1G stopped at 11 for a long time. Look, the PAC might say we'll take the Oklahoma schools and stand pat at 14 unless Texas wants to come. They have a spot for Texas, not necessarily for us. They're not a charity and the money doesn't just magically appear. Additions have to add value to the conference in terms of the market.

Billy Blanks 8 years, 2 months ago

Just trying to get inside your little mind. What do you think BGL and Z are doing? Do you think they are just going about their regular business and reading the news headlines to see if anyone is interested? You have a complete lack of understanding of how the process works. None of this will take place out in the open.

The ACC said 10 schools had talks with them about acceptance. I promise you one of these was KU.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

Putting a positive spin on the football team we could always say "hey we can make your team look powerful, increase your stats, guarantee a win, etc.

No I am not a troll, never missed a game (football or basketball) until I moved to the coast, graduated 41 years ago, etc.

We do not have a leadership issue, we have a location issue and a football issue.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

I'd guess it's a KU/MU package that's been presented to the PAC-12 and the Big 10. We're both waiting for the big shoes to drop, OU and UT. Tomorrow is a big day/night; no sleep for the weary.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

The problem is MU has options beyond including us. We're clearly trying to latch onto them, not the other way around.

lama 8 years, 2 months ago

MU could go to the SEC now. Of course, that would be the end of Mizzou football, so I think they are looking at other options. But they have options, I think, whereas KU doesn't.

lama 8 years, 2 months ago

Either KU makes a play to go west, or winds up in a glorified Conference USA with Baylor, Iowa State, Cincinnati and the like. The Big 10 isn't expanding:

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/big-ten-commissioner-says-no-change-imminent/

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

Calhawk, I don't have an inflated view of KU's value. I know that our football program is an embarrassment, and that we don't have many eyeballs in Kansas. However, I believe that we do offer some value...

And yes it starts with Top5 hoops program. Which has resulted with a very recognizable "brand". We are an AAU school (I don think academics makes a difference to the PAC). We may soon become a National Cancer Insitute (on of only a few in the US, brings big research dollars).

But most all, the PAC doesn't have that many options to get to 16. There top 2 choices are clear...

1 Texas

2 OU

After that, they choose from TTech, OSU, MU, KU, K-State, BYU, Boise.

If you're Larry Scott, who would you pick as #3 and #4. I think KU would be in front of either OSU or TTech.

But we needed to make a "first move" to prevent Texas and OU from dragging their little sisters to the PAC.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree with you to a point. If I'm Larry Scott, I'm putting my foot down and saying: "Look, this realignment business is about maximizing profits as a conference. Texas, that means no independent network, you work under our structure, not the other way around. Texas and OU, that means Tech and OSU don't add appreciable market or brand value, so we're adding the four main state schools in the two of you, Kansas and Missouri. That gives us the Texas markets all the way to St. Louis and 3 of 4 AAU institutions. We will all make tons of money under this scenario. Now, either sign up under those terms or the two of you can go back to the Big XII, we're quite comfortable at 12 ourselves."

But, notice, this isn't up to Kansas. Of course, KU would jump at this chance. Its not like the KU brass is going, "I don't know about that". They'll pac their bags tomorrow. But, Scott isn't going to scare off the Texas fish too quickly. It represents that last real large market that is available to him and if it ultimately means swallowing OSU and Tech with it, so be it. There is nothing Kansas can do about that. It all depends on how much leverage Scott thinks he has. From talking with PAC fans, they don't want Tech and OSU either, they want MU and KU. One fan who claimed to know a prominent "PAC booster" (you know how reliable that is), said that the best scenario is UT, OU, MU and KU.

That's great, but does Scott hold enough leverage to swing it. If the ACC and the B1G are not options, it increases Scott's leverage, but will it increase it enough? OU could still threaten to go SEC if it can't take OSU.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

How do you know he isn't? Do you really think that all negotiation is carried out via the press?

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

You do realize we have limited space here to reply, so excuse me if I don't drag this out into a series of protracted posts. There is no strawman here. I'm not sure if you understand the term properly.

ME: How do you know the KU bras hasn't been in heavy negotiations up to this point?

YOU: I don't

ME: Well, then why are you criticizing them for not being more "proactive" in all this?

YOU: Well, I haven't seen any signs or results to indicate that.

ME: Really, where would you expect to see these "signs and results"?

YOU: Internet updates or the news.

ME: Oh, you mean the Press?

So, let me ask you again, and please be specific so I don't build these further "strawmen": How do you know the KU brass isn't being proactive and actively negotiating? You say "The KU administration should be actively trying to sell exactly what you are talking about, not relying on Larry Scott to do it alone." So, how do you know they are not doing that and that Scott isn't shooting their ideas down?

AlecRaenos 8 years, 2 months ago

Dude, you are being a insulting. You insinuated through your very unspecific comments that KU was just sitting there doing nothing.

You have been insinuating it for two days.

Keep being an ass and keep the conversation civil. We know you want KU to the Pac, we get it.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

The only thing I understand is that having a conversation with you is an exercise in futility. You speak in generalities and then when someone tries to find specifics in it, you claim "strawmen", as though nothing can be expanded from your original thoughts. I will withdraw my further ignorance of your logic so as not to infuriate you any longer. Have fun patting yourself on the back.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

I just want to say "thank you", you probably helped the curve so I could get my A or B, someone needs to be on the bottom half. Thank you again!

Angus0199 8 years, 2 months ago

We need to align w/KSU. I heard that B1G has spoke w/them about contingencies if Big 12 disolves. I know the academic concerns but was emailed this: "Kansas State University, continues to expand its already formidable presence in animal health, food safety, food security, biosecurity research and engineering. Manhattan has been named as the site for the National Bio and Agro-Defense Facility (NBAF), run by the Department of Homeland Security. The $760 million project will employ over 450 scientists and researchers with an annual research budget of $2.9 billion and generate $3.6 billion in local private sector economic impact during its first 10 years of operation." (theres a lot more I to the letter) This B1G is the #1 research conference in NCAA and they're wanting KSU and that $ if something should happen w/Big 12. Let's face it, their rivalry w/NU is a hell of a lot better than anything we got going, and don't bring any BBall into this. If BBall made a damn bit of difference, than this wouldn't be going on at all. We won't have another victoty this year in football and we'll keep saying "just wait till basketball", but nobody cares.

We need to align w/Kstate and Mizzou, possibly ISU to either keep the Big 12 alive or go B1G. It makes sense w/the IU/ISU rivalry and ours w/KSU and MU. And geographically it makes more sense than anything else I can think of.

Angus0199 8 years, 2 months ago

How is it that they don't belong inthe Big 12??? Is that just trash talk, or are you serious? Are you saying that if the Big 12 disolves and they are invited to B1G, we shouldn't want to go. Best case scenario, the Big 12 stays and we do to, but if they go, I'd like that rivalry to continue.

Angus0199 8 years, 2 months ago

You are FOS.

1. How is KSU the weakest of the big12? How many times has College Gamday been to Lawrence on a Sat morning? And this is all about football. We won the Orange Bowl a few years ago, but that's about it. I would put KSU over ISU, Baylor, TT, and yes us when it comes to football.

2 If we aligned w/KSU and the big 12 disolves and KSU goes to B1G, then we will. There's tradition there w/NU as well. And its better for us aligned then w/Mizz.

I wasn't saying that you were saying we shouldn't go B1G. just that our chances are better if we aligned w/KSU. Like OU and OSU are doing.

I disagree w/the less attractive comment. If KSU is bringing $1bill in research and we get the cxr research, a rivalry in football and Bball (which KSU is becoming really relevant), and KC, it's a sweet package that isn't there in the B1G now.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

That point about KSU's research money might actually carry some weight with the B1G. No one talks about how the B1G + University of Chicago split Billions of federal research dollars as membes of the CIC. The more federal research dollars an institution can bring with them, the more attractive they might be to the B1G.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

Research money also carries weight in the Pac 12. Everybody wants OU and UT right now. But when they are off the board, that is when our time comes.

Might as well kiss the idea of playing in the same conference as Kansas State goodbye. Or at least our leaders better realize that is a no-go.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

Unfortunately, geographics and rivalries appear to be the least important factors in the realignment.

lama 8 years, 2 months ago

K-State is a total non-factor with the BIg 10.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Yes, the Big 12 should have recruited them and Arkansas years ago. Utah would have given CU a natural (and prior) rivalry in the Big 12.

utahjayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

You're exactly right, nice take. UU has major fiscal catch up to do within the PAC-12 structure but they're definitely on the way up. We should have tried to grab their spot last year but our administration bought the stability of the Big XII hook, line, and sinker. Even after tomorrow's announcements, I bet we'll hear some happy smoke about the long term stability of the Big 5/7/whatever.

See how easy civil discourse is when you present well-reasoned facts instead of your typical response where you degrade someone?

Mark Modrcin 8 years, 2 months ago

KU will not be left out of realignment. I am very confident that they will be one of the last chips to fall into a 16-team league.

And the only group of people that hate this more than lower-tier schools such as Baylor, Iowa St., and K-State are the BCS people. This shuffling will likely result in the BCS dissolving into a playoff system, and the bowls will be no longer. Doesn't seem like anyone is thinking 3-4 steps ahead, but the BCS cannot like any of this.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Reports now that UT is going to Pac. http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/18/report-texas-to-pac-12-almost-certain/related/

The hope now becomes that ACC grabs UConn and Rutgers, otherwise we could be screwed and KU BB becomes a shadow of its former glory.

Billy Blanks 8 years, 2 months ago

NO NO NO

Pray for B1G

PAC is last hope.

David Atchley 8 years, 2 months ago

In case anyone wants to add this nugget to the chaos of realignment...the economic indicators for the next 10 years show continued growth and popularity to move to Texas, and to the Southern region of the United States. The growth isn't forecasted for the Eastern states or the Rust belt.....due to the economic collapse in California, Nevada and Arizona....a lot of companies and people have relocated to Texas.

The level of play in high schools in Texas has always been far superior to most other States...its become even more competitive, as these people relocate to Texas and decide where to live...based on the quality of football program at the particular high school.

Look on any roster in the Big 12 Conference and you'll literally lose count of all the players from the State of Texas. Kids and parents want to play their home games in front of family and friends, and most can currently attend a lot of the away games of their respective schools.

"IF" your school finds it challenging to attract and recruit players currently in the Big 12, that problem will compound if you all of a sudden find yourself 1 or two time zones away. This isn't about revenue...its about Texas having the pretty new wife (ESPN) and all the other wives at the country club don't like her...she's too rich, she's too attractive....and their jealousy is simply making emotional instead of financial and economic decisions.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

This whole experience has been both humbling and insulting. If KU lands in a p.o.s. conference my existential crisis will be complete.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Or if they pick up OU, OSU, UT, and TTU this week, that next week it's the PAC-18 or PAC-20.

Steve Hillyer 8 years, 2 months ago

I prefer to look at the bright side, if we end up in the City Union Mission League I will save a lot of money and time, I won't be donating to the Williams Fund, won't be buying season tickets and discontinue my support for the Allied Health School.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

"discontinue my support for the Allied Health School."

Athletics, understandable. But why punish the academic part? They have nothing to do with this.

I'd hope we all do the opposite, starting today. Support both sides more to help them gain or regain a respectable spot in a major conference.

ahpersecoachingexperience 8 years, 2 months ago

I can already hear Sheahon's presser tomorrow.

We are confident that The big 12 can still be a viable league. I have spoken to the 4 other remaining athletic directors and they assured me that they too believe a strong big 12 is the best option.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

There is alot to digest. Part of me is happy that something finally happened, but when examining the possibilities, it can get scary.

  • If the ACC has secured itself, the SEC has fewer options to get to get to 16. I would think the top two to get to 14 are West Virginia and Missouri. I really don't think MU want to go to the SEC. The SEC could also make a play for Texas Tech, -The Pac-12 appears to be waiting for OU and I think there will be a final push to bring in UT. I suspect that Tech will come with UT over KU. It's is easier for UT to justify the move to the legislature. -The further disintegration of the Big East slightly weakens Notre Dame. However. remember there are alot of basketball only schools in the Big East, so there are still teams to compete with ND for non-revenue sports. -Could UT and ND come in as the 16th members of the ACC? -There is no rules that conferences have to get to 16 teams. The SEC could stop at 14; the Pac 12 could stop at 14 by taking the Oklahoma schools; the Big 10 does not need to expand right away.

To everyone infuriated the KU is perceived to be sitting on its hands, you don't that that is really happening. The statement coming from the university has been very consistent. Essentially saying, that we are working to keep the Big 12 together but we are looking out for what is best for the university. What more do you expect? At this stage, you want to keep all options open. If you put all your eggs in the Pac 12 basket and they eventually take UT and Tech, then your position is weakened when exploring other alternatives.

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

There is zero evidence that BGL and Zenger have been doing ANYTHING. All we hear is "we're working to keep the Big12 together". This conference has been dead for a month and they've failed to realize it.

If we don't get into the BIG or PAC, we are "left behind"

Hoops recruits... gone

Bill self... gone

The inability for our leaders to "connect the dots" is sad.

What were BGL's credentials prior to KU; ever been a chancelor?

What were Zenger credentials prior to KU; Illinois State and asst football coach at K-State. It's laughable.

And remember, our choise for AD was Bubba Cunningham, Tulsa AD, and former asst and ND. What happened? He interviewed with BGL and said "hell no".

pgittemeier09 8 years, 2 months ago

I feel like their doing something but at the same time I feel like they are waiting and being re active and not pro active...syracuse and pitt were proactive and look where that got them...proactive>reactive Also everyone who claims elevating smu tulsa and houston will make a good scenario is retarded....their not in a bcs conference for a reason and that reason is not just baylor

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

That, and they are on the east coast sitting in large TV markets. You can only be proactive if you have something worthwhile. The best "proaction" we can take is to make ourselves look like an attractive "add on" dependent on certain scenarios playing out. We don't have assets that make us a mover and shaker. We're an accessory, not the wardrobe.

chriz 8 years, 2 months ago

Okay, I understand this is all about football, but can our basketball team be fine of we do land in the leftover big east? Will it be a relevant conference without UConn if they end up going to the ACC? If not, is it possible for one of the conferences, come basketball time, say, "You know, forget about Arizona State's (or whomever's) basketball program and let's bring in KU's"?

By the way, before you answer, please remember that I KNOW that it's about football. That's not my point. Come basketball time, can it be just about basketball?

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

"can our basketball team be fine of we do land in the leftover big east?" The answer is NO. For many reasons. Most importantly, the university will probably have to take $10M TV revenue cut by making the move. That is close to 15% reduction in total revenues. Believe it or not, the football generated about as much revenue as the basketball team. The football revenues would go down by playing in a weaker conference, further shrinking the revenue pool. You got to continue to play the non-revenue sports. The revenues aren't affected, but the costs are going to increase because of travel to the east coast.

Given all of this, KU is probably not going to be able to afford paying Bill Self and his assistants. If they could, he probably wouldn't want to stay. I don't care what anyone says, the coach is more important than KU tremendous basketball history (ask Indiana and UCLA). There is no guarantee we would get a premiere coach to replace Bill Self.

The other problem is that the basketball revenues are pretty much optimized. Not alot of opportunity for growth. There is a huge potential for growth in football which is what the athletic department needs to focus on. If KU doesn't get into a BCS conference, the entire athletic department is going to have to be restructured.

pepper_bar 8 years, 2 months ago

No. Nobody cares about basketball until March.

Kevin Morris 8 years, 2 months ago

Must deal with reality before you can solve a problem. Reality is a 50,000 stadium that sells out when Nebraska visits. If basketball mattered we'd already have an offer. OU won't stay in conf with UT and LHN, unless they get a cut. Also they've made a deal to take OSU with them. UT can go where they want w/o the LHN. KU, Baylor, ISU, KSU and probably MU all left out of this dance. In any case KU has to wait for a call. Shoot, we didn't even sell out The BOK Center in Tulsa last March 50 miles from the Kansas border. Reality is that even though Lawrence is the center of our universe the reality is no one else sees it that way or cares. If KU bball goes away the rest of the NCAA will go on and outside our blue world it will hardly be missed.

dynamitehawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Not sure what's going to happen... But I do know that if you type 'Missori to ' in google that the auto generated items are Missouri to:

Sec Big 10 Drug test for welfare Legalize weed

Kevin Morris 8 years, 2 months ago

Reality: KU, KSU, ISU, Baylor, TCU, Tulsa, Rice, Houston, Memphis, Louisville, Colorado St, Air Force, SMU, Cinncinatti, UTEP, and hope for MU

pepper_bar 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt, why isn't anyone talking about the lack of liquid assets KU has to afford a Big 12 buyout? Doesn't KU need the Big 12 to entirely crumble before it can move, so nobody has to pay anyone any exit fees? I've been posting this for days now hoping someone will come along and prove me wrong... hasn't happened yet. Can you?

Angus0199 8 years, 2 months ago

Good point. Goes w/the comment above. We need to start solidifying our base. I don't think we need to go to 14 or 16. but TCU, SMU, Houston, AF, BYU sound great if we stay where we are. Lets kick UT out and have OU, OSU, and A&M stay. UT can go, and TT can go as well if they want to hitch their wagon to them.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't think NU and CU paid any money. They just gave up part of their share of TV revenues last year. At the end of the day, I think NU forfeited about $9M and CU $6M. This was negotiated.

Probably to your point, if and when KU goes to another conference it will probably be after the conference disbands. I think five schools need to remain for the conference to be viable. KU is not making a preemptive move and you would have to assume that by the time KU does move, UT, TT, OU, OSU, A&M and probably MU would have made a move pretty much folding the conference. In this case, I'm sure there will be law suits.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

Nobody talks about it because it is a non-issue. I showed that KU is one of the more money-making Big 12 schools in a previous post, and that is without donors or boosters figured in (which if you think would not fork over cash to get into a super conference you are absolutely on drugs), of which you claimed I was "making up numbers" because they don't agree with your trolling.

Second, if those four teams leaves there are only five members left. If KU leaves (or Mizzou, which is likely) then the required five team membership is done, the Big 12 is officially dead, meaning NOBODY has to pay any exit fees.

You are either a troll, or somebody who cannot read public records, or just not that bright. Matt is simply too polite to call you what you are; a troll.

But I'm sure your information is far better than Forbes or any research institute that public schools report to for Title IX. Nah, you are right, KU is broke.

Stop trolling.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

This from a PAC board:

From previous Arizona insider

Texas "concessions"

The league will work with UT and ESPN to find a graceful way to blend, dissolve or do whatever to the LHN. ESPN will likely get an expanded stream of games in its first tier rights and a guarantee of Texas in a certain amount of telecasts. Also, the league will help absorb some of LHN's startup costs as they fold it into the Pac 16 Network. So basically, the league allows UT to save face, ESPN gets probably more UT football than the LHN would have been able to provide and the Pac gets to re-up first tier rights fees with both ESPN and FOX while getting even more premium content for its own networks.

TTU is the 16th team

Pods though Texas wants access to SoCal every year, UW would bar this so Texas will settle with pods

PAC-16 office in Texas

A rotating FB championship game and Men's BB Tourney between LA and Dallas. We all know the home site FB championship game is temporary anyways and the Rose Bowl (until Farmers Field is built) and Jerry World will eventually take this game over. Same for the Pac Tourney as nobody has any desire to hold the tourney in places like Utah, Seattle or Oakland. Staples, American Airlines Arena, Vegas and even the Pepsi Center seem to be most on the radar as of now, and there is strong sentiment for an easy east west rotation.

Hoops scheduling is undetermined. Could be either pods or divisions. Look for a strong push for Arizona-UCLA, UCLA-Texas, USC-OU and Arizona-Texas games to be showcased.

Votes will be unanimous with Colorado and Arizona having public outcries but will go with whatever is said

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

If true the only prime landing spot left is the B1G.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

What is described here makes a lot of sense and I think is likely to happen. What's sad is that had UT decided to make similar concessions to the Big 12, the Big 12 would still be in existence. That would effectively eliminate the Pac 12 as an option for KU. With the Big 10 not wanting to expand and the ACC eyeing UConn and Rutgers, the options quickly are closing.

phoggedin 8 years, 2 months ago

This is the sad part. If Texas is willing to make those concessions, why not make them in the Big XII, where Texas still holds significant power. In the Pac, Texas will never have the dominance it had. But maybe that's best for all concerned. Texas didn't use its power very wisely, and we're all going to suffer for it.

JayHawk_from_SWKS 8 years, 2 months ago

I highly doubt the PAC 12 would be willing to move its offices to Texas and would give up playing the championship game in the Rose Bowl to play the game in Texas, a far from central place in the conference. I especially doubt this when it is the PAC 12 with all the power and Texas is begging for a home, and carrying the additional baggage of Texas Tech with it.

JayHawk_from_SWKS 8 years, 2 months ago

Also, Colorado agreeing to all this behind closed doors??????

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

Not all their offices. They will have a west and east branch. Our only option is the hope that the B1G expands, and they have given absolutely no indication they will. It will be interesting to see if MU tries to wait the B1G out or jump at an SEC invite if it comes.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

CU is a new member. Other members had to make concessions for them to join and now CU will have to get in line. Larry Scott has transformed that conference into a mega power. If he says "this is the plan that is best for the conference" everyone else is going to fall in line.

JayHawk_from_SWKS 8 years, 2 months ago

A new member or an old member is still a member; they all have equal power. Also, you can't convince me any old PAC 10 member had objections to CU being a member the way CU would have objections against UT. I am still not convinced the PAC 12 would surrender so much concessions to a new member with a history of power issues. I also can't believe that UT membership, along with all the concessions mentioned above, wouldn't be a huge roadblock to OU membership.

bloodbrother17 8 years, 2 months ago

Hopefully Texas overplaying its hand helps KU out. OU and OSU are a package deal for the PAC-12. The PAC-12 knows this, OU doesn't have to bolt and can stay in the Big 12. So OU has options. If OU/OSU goes to PAC-12, conventional wisdom (as of now) would say that Texas/Texas Tech follows, mainly because Texas either goes west or goes independent in football at this point. PAC-12 would love to bring Texas along, but now the PAC-12 has the power. They will be calling the shots and they may not want Tech. So Texas doesn't really have much power to say they will go somewhere else if they can't bring Tech because that really isn't an option.So if that happens, there may be a chance where KU fills that 16th spot.

The only reason Texas Tech is in the conversation is that Texas will have to bring them, but now that Texas doesn't have the power, the PAC-12 is going to have more say in whom they accept to the conference. The ACC's move obviously makes them the strongest basketball conference. The PAC-12 adding KU over Tech would at least help there footing in the basketball angle...not that it means much.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

I think UT has more influence than you think especially if they make concessions on the LHN. I would think that if Larry Scott could pick four schools to get to 16, he would take OU, UT, KU and MU.

bloodbrother17 8 years, 2 months ago

I do agree Texas does still have a lot of power. I just think they can't call the shots as much, giving the PAC-12 more room to call the shots. I still think Tech probably goes with Texas, but was just looking for an angle that could get KU into the PAC-12.

The concessions show compromise, which is what KU would need. Texas to make a compromise to not bring Tech along.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Brown (Orangebloods) also now saying the PAC is likely for UT, or trying to keep the Big 12 together.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1266871

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

The Orangebloods article mentions that KU and MU have other options. I would like to know what those options are.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

ditto... I've been feeling pretty helpless lately.

hawksfan08 8 years, 2 months ago

If Texas were to try to hold the big 12 together instead of moving to the PAC, it has been speculated that KU and MU would be the PAC's choice to get to 16.

bmhatfi1 8 years, 2 months ago

"Also, schools like Missouri and Kansas would have to be convinced to stay in the Big 12 when they have other options, sources said."

Yes, would be really nice to know where this comes from at this point

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm glad we have options, just curious which ones...I'm hoping Big 10, but I'm afraid of what they are.

Come on Matt, get us the inside scoop!!!!!!

Angus0199 8 years, 2 months ago

Let me some this up.
OU, OSU, UT, TT to PAC ISU & Baylor to ACC KSU to B1G MU to SEC or B1G

KU to disolve football, develop Baseball and goes to Missouri Valley. Loose in Conference championship to Northern Iowa and wins NIT. What have I missed???

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

Why on earth would the ACC want ISU or Baylor? Or the B1G want KSU for that matter?

You're kidding, right?

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

KU's "Golden Goose" of basketball is not going to lay a golden egg and deliver us into the group of 4 conferences of 16 teams each. Agreed we rode this BB fascination for too long at the expense of our football program. Ironically, this position may very well ultimately cost BB at KU dearly.

AcesWild 8 years, 2 months ago

if that was the case boise would be bcs . kansas fans adm . needs to wakeup this is now going on two years and kansas . still waiting texas. the south is going to pac12 and ku still waiting texas wants to be a basket school .with ku.

out of the way they are and we div 2 w

WAKE UP KANSAS

AcesWild 8 years, 2 months ago

if that was the case boise would be bcs . kansas fans adm . needs to wakeup this is now going on two years and kansas . still waiting texas. the south is going to pac12 and ku still waiting texas wants to be a basket school .with ku.

out of the way they are and we div 2 w

WAKE UP KANSAS

AcesWild 8 years, 2 months ago

if that was the case boise would be bcs . kansas fans adm . needs to wakeup this is now going on two years and kansas . still waiting texas. the south is going to pac12 and ku still waiting texas wants to be a basket school .with ku.

out of the way they are and we div 2 w

WAKE UP KANSAS

AcesWild 8 years, 2 months ago

if that was the case boise would be bcs . kansas fans adm . needs to wakeup this is now going on two years and kansas . still waiting texas. the south is going to pac12 and ku still waiting texas wants to be a basket school .with ku.

out of the way they are and we div 2 w

WAKE UP KANSAS

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm reminded of part of a quote from Almost Famous....

".... and they will ruin rock and roll, and strangle everything we love about it."

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

My favorite quote is "we're just real Topeka people man". We just want someone to want us!!

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

Basically, after Texas and OU make their expected moves, our attention focuses on Notre Dame. If Notre Dame stubbornly stays football independent and plays its non-football sports against Big East basketball only schools, we're stuck trying to create an essentially new conference on the fly which gets even uglier if WVU and Mizzou go to the SEC.

The B1G probably still feels like it could pick and choose whenever it wants. Especially where MU is concerned. If the B1G gets Notre Dame then they will explore what expansion scenario makes market sense for them, which they could still determine "is none". They may let MU go to the SEC and decide no other school is worth expanding and they have plenty of clout as the "Lucky 13".

bill_the_kat 8 years, 2 months ago

The Big 10 has already lost by being too slow: PITT and Syracuse would have been good moves.

Now it is hard to imagine the Big 10 moving east, they have been effectively blocked. Rut. and CT will probably get the ACC to 16.

Both the ACC and big10 will turn up their noses at WVA’s academics.

If the Big 10 wants to get to 16 who would they take:

ND (Will they say yes? Probably so if the Big east implodes & the Big 10 gives an ultimatum) MU (Will Big 10 expand to the former slave states? ) KU (Will we stick with our little bro in a death pact to a crap conf?) ISU (Will Iowa support or block)

Someone else, who?

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

I suggest KU hurry up. Now UConn is aggressively trying to get into the ACC. Not many choices left KU. The BE is NOT an option anymore.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

Hurry up? The ACC has stated they want to keep their identity as an "east coast" league. Guess where Kansas isn't? Sure, personally, I think KU in the ACC is much more attractive than Rutgers. But does anyone in the ACC see it that way? I highly doubt it.

bill_the_kat 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't think the ACC was ever much beside another Texas bluff. Every other team in the conf. is in the eastern time zone. We would be a fish out of water there.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

Nice. Time to make a decision Kansas. Stop waiting! And please K B of R, don't make it a "combo" deal. KU get into the ACC.

KSU you are on your own pal.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

ACC option was gone yesterday.

Unlike the others, we value loyalty. If at all possible, I'm sure were trying to find a solution that involves all of the forlorn four or five.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

Whack! (Goes a big nail in the coffin of the Big 12 as we knew it.)

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

We all assume that there will be a race to 16 members for the superconferences. Why do we believe that every conference needs to get to 16. The Pac could take the UT, OU, OSU and TT to get to 16. The SEC's options for expansion are limited if you assume the ACC schools are no longer in play. They could easy pull West Virginia to get to 14, though I think they prefer MU. If the SEC wants to get to 16 they most likely will have to take two of the Big 12 leftovers and may decide it doesn't make sense economically.

The Big 10 is currently at 12 and I am sure will hold a spot for Notre Dame. If none of the other east coast schools are available, the only AAU options to get to 16 are MU, KU and Iowa State. Does the combination of MU-KU add enough value to take them right away? Do they wait out ND? If so, who is the 16th school after ND, MU and KU?

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

NU isn't an AAU school and they got in to B10.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

They were at the time they were admitted.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

All is not lost b/c ND will not go to the B1G and the B1G won't expand w/o ND. First, contrary to opinion ND FB doesn't need to go to a conference - ever. The two MI schools, USNA, and USC will always play ND. That's four games. BYU and UT now have contracts to play ND. That's 6 games. ( I also note that BYU has been openly saying that they are learning from and working with ND to learn the ropes of FB independence. BYU has a vested interest in keeping ND indie b/c it prevents a 4 superconference lockdown of any FB playoff) Mix in AFA and/or USMA and a few other BE holdovers and ND easily gets a full schedule.

As for its olympic sports, ND can form a Catholic league with the rest of the rest of the non-FB BE schools.

That's where KU, KSU, ISU, and Baylor come in. (I'm assuming WVa, TCU and MU go to the SEC and UConn and Rutgers go to the ACC) The forgotten 4 then merge with Cincy, LVille and USF and the Catholic BB league and add Boise State to form an 8 team FB conference and 16 team BB conference. That league probably gets a BCS bowl and the BB is the same or better. Obviously there's a big pay cut involved, but the BB stays relevant and would arguably be better than the P16 and SEC.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

I have to admit, that's some creative thinking there. I think Boise St. would have to be assured that the new conference would have an AQ status. If the football side of the equation looks like this:

Iowa St Kansas Kansas St Baylor Louisville Cincinnati South Florida Boise St

Who is the "power" that makes it an AQ conference? I just don't see anyone. So, why would Boise St. dramatically increase their travel expenses to move from one non-AQ conference to another? Basketball would have:

Iowa St Kansas Kansas St Baylor Louisville Cincinnati South Florida Boise St Villanova St Johns De Paul Georgetown

Certainly, KU, Louisville and Georgetown give it some relevance, but enough to carry a weak football conference? Would the conference even find any stability or would members always be looking over their shoulder wondering if the B1G comes and takes a team or two?

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

I can't see the SEC taking TCU. I could see them taking KU over TCU. As mentioned many times, TCU has a competitive football team but little else. They don't fill their small stadium and bring very few additional viewers. In addition, the SEC commissioner has stated they will not go into states where they already have a footprint. I could see a MU and KU going to the SEC to get to 16. I don't think I'd like it but it is certainly better than the scenario you outlined!!

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

We could teach those guys what a round ball is used for.

They might just do it, if the ACC is firmed up.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't see TCU to the SEC. They'd try to poach VaTech, FSU, GaTech, or another from the ACC first. Then who would the ACC go hunting for?

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

I actually have seen talk about TCU. It would give the SEC a second presence in Texas, and better yet, in northern Texas. It would also give A&M a school close to it. I don't think the ACC schools are going to jump. They stand a better chance of athletic success on an ACC field than they do on an SEC field.

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm as interested in the Pope controlling a Catholic BB league with KU as a member as I am with continuing to dance to the Longhorn two-step.

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

rob4lb: Are you serious about KU and the SEC; do remember anything about what "dear old Dixie" tried to do out here about 150 years ago. For "Free State Abolitionist Kansas" to be the only member of a conference populated by ex-slavers, what an insult! Agree, Missouri could fit the SEC mold with no problem!

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

So, you would rather keep a 150 year old grudge and watch KU fade into second tier status? Look, I don't think the SEC is remotely interested in us unless they have suddenly seen some sort of value in basketball, and even then, Louisville would probably be preferable to them. But if the SEC asks, you better start learning to whistle a little dixie.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

My point is that IF the SEC wants to get to 16 and the ACC and Oklahoma schools are no longer available, and the conference wants to expand its footprint, how does the conference get there?

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

A&M, WVU, TCU and Missouri

Louisville is also an option. I have also heard far fetched rumors about Eastern Carolina.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

I hope you weren't one of the posters who were advocating a move to the ACC. I think a majority of those schools are in states that seceded. We apparently had no problem joining a conference with four Texas schools. Don't you think the whole Civil War thing has been a bit overplayed? Especially given that the majority of people would like for KU to remain the same conference as MU.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

MU is most likely debating the pros and cons of the SEC this very minute. Like us, their hopes lie long term with the Big 10, if the Big 12 folds or goes on in smaller form.

Maybe an MU/KU tag team in the SEC would look better for a future dual invite to the Big 10? We'd each have more revenue to help expand our programs, making us more attractive. If we split, we'd likely not make nearly the optimal package that the Big 10 would be looking for in the future.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

I still don't know what happened in 1993 that made us decide against pursuing the Big 10. Read the article linked below and ask yourself what life for KU athletics could have been like today.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-12-10/sports/9312100144_1_commissioner-jim-delany-big-southwest-missouri

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

Put your $$$ on this:

UT & OU will not be in the same conference unless it is the B12.

PAC12 will not take TT w/ UT.

PAC12 will not take OSU w/ OU

MU will not go to the SEC (there fb team would be destroyed), MU can win in the B12 or B1G.

B12 will survive .

B12 will add BYU, TCU, AFA

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

You are delusional. You know this right?

All of the above = false.

doctorWho 8 years, 2 months ago

Our only hope is that the PAC12 will in fact not take TT and OSU, but it's a pretty slim hope given they already have several academic clunkers . . .

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

How about a "Pan-America Conference"? Maybe bigger is better, at least in numbers:

West Pod:

Air Force Boise St San Diego St UNLV

Midwest Pod:

Iowa St Kansas Kansas St Tulsa

South Pod:

Central Florida Baylor Houston South Florida

East Pod:

Cincinnati East Carolina Louisville Memphis

Maybe with a reach that spans the country,it would capture enough interest in various markets to be attractive enough as an AQ?

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

That is absurd. You think this is a BCS caliber conference? Seriously. Most of those teams are pathetic.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

Yes, I do think its absurd. But, we're looking at worst case scenarios now. We don't have any "great football schools" out there to latch on to. So, if you have an idea that somehow keeps us from fading into oblivion that doesn't involve a last minute save from one of the Big conferences, by all means, lay it out for us!

lama 8 years, 2 months ago

Cal and Stanford have to be thrilled: a conference that includes WSU, OSU, ASU, OU, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

Corrrect young man ..... cal & stanford will NOT accept a couple of "hick" scholls in their conference.

Kristen Downing 8 years, 2 months ago

We will be left with the leftover schools from the Big 12 and Big East. We will get the buyout dollars and that will be the only positive to this mess. KU brass is doing what they can, but you can't force anyone to take you. We won't lose Self right away, but if there is not a good fit for basketball, he will be gone. Sorry, but this is what I am reading or not reading as KU is not being mentioned by any current, credible sources. I hope I am wrong.....

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

It's the Kansas Board of Regents that is going to screw it over for KU. It may be the "right" thing for the state of Kansas to make KU/KSU a combo package, but it will not help KU in any way.

So, rather than save one school, the Regents, in the end, take down both schools. Thanks a lot Regents. At least Chancellor Gray had mentioned she doesn't want to be tied to KSU in order to save KU.

JayBoi2011 8 years, 2 months ago

You're so right. Apparently they want us to be New Mexico or Nevada now. That's great for the state of Kansas. Well done state. This is why I'm gonna leave Kansas for a competent state legislature, which is sadly going to be Texas comparatively.

LJD230 8 years, 2 months ago

KU to the Big X? The football progam would be the doormat for the conference. And why would any Big X team be interested in playing in a 50K seat stadiuim? There is no revenue in Lawrence.

If KU doesnt go to the ACC, it may just as well roll over and give it up!

Except for folks living in MO or KS, the intrastate and interstate rivalries of the three scholls is irrelevant and, on a national scale, of no interest.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/09/16/Kansas.Big.12/index.html?sct=cb_t11_a1

lama 8 years, 2 months ago

Indiana, Minnesota, Northwestern, Illinois all play in stadiums roughly the same size as KU's -- and are all worse football programs. Purdue's stadium is a little bigger, but is similarly awful.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

KU could compete in the B1G. We will need to schedule schools in Texas to retain recruiting

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

We are screwed. If ACC simply cobbles up Big East, UT and TTech go with OU/kOSU we are screwed unless the Big10 invites us. This has been the only true option for a long time. The rest is dreaming. Texas and KU to ACC. Who really bought that crap? Are you kidding me? Have you ever heard of disinformation? How stupid can one be?

Unless there were going to be an east and west division the ACC adding KU and Texas never made sense.

OU and Texas will keep their rivalry together, anything else you read is propaganda.

This whole thing is how some perceived power schools can free themselves of dead weight. Next, the PAC will throw off Washington State and Oregon State. UT and OU no longer have the dead weight of KU, ISU, Baylor holding them back.

I have always thought that Congress would and should get involved. I think we will see that now.

phoggedin 8 years, 2 months ago

Although sources close to the university have said that KU continues to hold out hope for the Big 12, reports have indicated that the Jayhawks have "other options" and that, if things continue to move quickly, Kansas may have to jump on one of those.

I really wish I knew what those "other options" might be.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

The only "other" option I can even see is as an outlier to the ACC. The SEC is football, 24/7/365. The B1G isn't moving. The PAC has their two slots tied up by add ons to get what they want, though I suppose expansion to 18 isn't impossible. I just have trouble seeing KU brokering that "option". That's it. Only in a basketball conference does KU have any appeal, and the only conference like that is the ACC. I just don't think they're going to make that exception for us. I guess all I have is desperate hope anyway.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

Why do you beleive the B1G isn't moving?

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

They've given no indication they want to. They only had two teams on their wish list last year outside of NU, and that was Texas and Notre Dame. Notre Dame has been the Great White Whale for the B1G for years. Problem is, ND has given no indication they are going to move. So, if ND isn't moving, the B1G isn't moving. They don't have any schools that increase their market share, so that cuts into their revenue pie, it doesn't expand it.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

Nobody knew nu was moving to the BiG until it happened. That may still be our one slim hope negogiations are behind the scenes & we are in the discussion.

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

Maybe a little too hung up on Civil War issues, but to be THE ONLY northern team in the SEC, probably (in reverse) one of the reasons Missouri was not asked to join B1G. That aside, what would KU gain in the SEC, bottom feeder in football, BB in the SEC is a different sport than what we're used to here, are you ready for Kentucky.

Not a advocate for ACC or BIGEast either, not our culture, they want to be populated by East Coast teams anyway. The best two options other than the Big12 are PAC12 and B1G, we fit there better academically and geographically than the others.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

I really doubt that Civil War loyalties have anything to do with conference realignment. It's all about economics. Culturally, MU and KU are more aligned with the Big 10. Again, I don't think the Big 10 decided against Missouri because they had slaves at the time of the Civil War. It was an economic decision.

What do we gain by going to the SEC? Stability and the enough revenue to help us maintain our position as a Top 5 basketball program. That's a good start.

I'm just speculating. I tend to think that some conferences will not feel compelled to get to 16 schools which is not good for KU.

LVCHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt how confident are you in these "other options" being legit? There are new rumors everyday so whats the point of not telling us what these other options might be?

Matt Tait 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm confident. Been told all along that KU has had options and I don't imagine that has changed...

It's going to be very interesting to see which way KU steers the ship.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

I hope you are right. I certainly don't see our "options". It looks very dark from our perspective.

Brad Potter 8 years, 2 months ago

Tait, while i appreciate your outstanding reporting on this realignment mess I do think the optimism should be tamped down if not deleted altogether. It's apparent more than ever that KU has no real options and if options mean some USAesque conference with the big east leftovers then that is not an option but rather a monumental step back. Let's start with reality and use that as the platform; reality is Kansas has more mammals than humans, two major universities and two marginal at best football programs. Oh and one of those programs gave put 604 yards of rushing yesterday. Sorry to be bleak but it's the reality of the cards we were dealt.

JayDocMD 8 years, 2 months ago

Man, I hope you are right. I'm still hoping against logic and reason, but my stomach is starting to hurt from all the kool-aid.

AcesWild 8 years, 2 months ago

BIG EAST IS NOT OPTION. AND SO FAR. I HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING BUT AWAIT SEE
THE ACC IS DONE BIG EAST DONE .WHAT OPTION

AcesWild 8 years, 2 months ago

BIG EAST IS NOT OPTION. AND SO FAR. I HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING BUT AWAIT SEE
THE ACC IS DONE BIG EAST DONE .WHAT OPTION

Kristen Downing 8 years, 2 months ago

If you're feeling burned right now, this article might help you get rid of some of your anger toward the poaching conferences. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/15601607/know-an-honorable-man-running-college-sports-give-him-a-minute

R2D2 8 years, 2 months ago

Everyone take a deep breath...for KU this is a process of elimination. If the Texas and Oklahoma schools go west and UConn & Rutgers go ACC then that leaves the SEC and Big 10 to choose from: Missouri Kansas Kansas St. Iowa St Baylor Notre Dame TCU BYU Cinch Louisville South Florida

Out of this group to get to 16 teams the SEC and Big 10 must choose 6. This also assumes West Virginia to the SEC. I like our odds to be one of the 6! The ACC really put the B1G and SEC in a position where they now have limited choices. I predict KU and MU to SEC!

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

Lived in Birmingham, Al, they are still fighting the civil war, free state would never be allowed to join.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

Who says all conferences have to get to 16?

Dan Edwards 8 years, 2 months ago

FFFFFUUUUU... I know I've got a bottle of scotch around here somewhere.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

I hope it's a bigger bottle, I may need some as well. Ugh!

JayHawk_from_SWKS 8 years, 2 months ago

i don't know what exactly the next 24 - 48 hours hold for KU or the Big 12 (though we all have some idea). But, I do know I will be very angry if OU and UT end up in the PAC 12 together after all this. What would be the point of all this? Why couldn't OU have carved out an equal revenue/power sharing deal with UT within the confines of the Big 12? Do they really think their respective fans or the college football viewers would quit watching games if they play in the Big 12 without A & M? I just don't get it.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

If OU wanted equal revenue sharing like UT agreed to then they would have ended up losing money in the B12. In the Pac 12 they will make money.

JayHawk_from_SWKS 8 years, 2 months ago

Even still, I think negotiating a bigger TV contract within the Big 12 to obtain more money would have been easier than moving to a new conference.

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

Like I said W Virginia will be the kicker school. I see no possibility that they'd want to join a lame duck Big 12. The SEC will be pursuing W Virginia along with the Big 10. We want them to go to the SEC to leave 4 spots open in the Big 10. But the 2nd kicker is whether or not the Big 10 will expand. And that depends on Notre Dame. If ND doesn't accept the Big 10 I could see the Big 10 staying at 12 teams while everyone else is at 16 and the Big 12 and Big East join. Not good for KU.

The four conference table is set at PAC 12, Big 10, SEC and ACC. As long as each of those conferences are on board to expand to 16 KU WILL have a place. Look at it this way. the ACC needs 2 teams, SEC 3, PAC 4 and Big 10 4 teams. Total of 13 spots. Most will be filled by Big 12 and Big East Schools and possibly Notre Dame. Let's list the schools 1. Texas - PAC 2. OU - PAC 3. OSU - PAC 4. Texas Tech - PAC 5. Missouri - SEC 6. W. Virginia - SEC 7__- SEC 8. UConn - ACC 9. Rutgers - ACC 10. Notre Dame - Big 10 11. Kansas - Big 10 12. ___- Big 10 13. _- Big 10 Someone please fill in these spots. I can't come up with anyone other than KSU, ISU, Baylor, Louisville. This is assuming that the Big 10 will expand.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

I think you are arguing that the conferences don't necessarily have to get to 16 schools

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

I am making that argument. I'm concerned that the Big 10 will be the arogant a$$'s in this whole deal and not add anyone especialy if ND says no. If the Big East falls apart ND may be forced to go to the Big 10.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

This isn't a number thing, its a market thing. If a conference can't justify bigger revenues with smaller schools, then it will just stand at 13 or 14 or 12. Media talked about this drive to 16, it wasn't conferences saying it. They still have to make things work financially.

JayBoi2011 8 years, 2 months ago

The theory, that the media has, is that these super conferences can dictate the NCAA and maybe eliminate it and the BCS in a way that could make these conferences even more money than now. This would need to be done with 4 16 team conferences. I don't think under this current situation that conferences would be better off with 16, but with 16 they can reorganize and spread the total wealth of the BCS (or whatever it becomes) to less schools and less conferences. They will make more money with 16 team leagues.

MWShields 8 years, 2 months ago

Okay Tait, so what are the options on the table for KU?

Steve Hillyer 8 years, 2 months ago

I was assuming KU and MU would be sticking together, now I'm not so sure if the SEC rumors turn out to be correct, I don't see KU going to the SEC. Anybody have any bipolar meds I can borrow, I go from feeling pretty good about where we will end up and then I go in the opposite direction, right now I'm on a downer, next hour, who knows?

MWShields 8 years, 2 months ago

The assumption is that the Big 10 will follow suit and go to 16 and I don't think that will be the case until ND decides to join. If ND leaves it's non-football sports in a Big East full of non-football schools that is just fine for them. The Big 10 isn't going to add KU/MU just to give them a home.

I used to think that the school of thought was to break up the Big East so you could force ND into a conference but when you think about it the Big East currently has 8 non-football members and are going to be able to add Iowa State, K-State, Baylor, along with TCU next year to get them back to 12 schools competing in non-football sports. ND doesn't have to go anywhere because the Big East will still exist. That means we get shoved into that conference with all of the other conference step children and the Big 10 sits at 12 and makes more money than other conferences using two divisions instead of POD systems. I don't see any way the Big 10 moves without ND and ND isn't going anywhere.

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

You're right. Everyone including myself assumed it would be four 16 team conferences and I still believe that in the long run. But it hit me today that the Big 10 isn't saying much about expansion which doesn't mean much. The Big 10 will only expand if ND accepts their bid

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm hoping I'm wrong, but here are my updated percentages:

We're screwed: 100% We're not screwed: 0%

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

Don't be so negative. This is what I think: 50% screwed 50 % not screwed = 100% screwed.

R2D2 8 years, 2 months ago

Sybesma...I really believe we will be the 16th school in The SEC and will be with mizzou and a&m, ole miss, miss st, lsu, arkansas and Kentucky in a west division. The ACC really screwed up the SEC plans to raid their conference and to get to 16 teams which they will do, we really become a great option. I like the way you have broken this down!!

MWShields 8 years, 2 months ago

I starting to think this may happen. I would love the ACC or the B1G but I don't think that is going to happen. I do think that if we ended up in the SEC it could be in a POD with Ark, MU, and TAMU.

Certainly not the most desirable landing spot but way better than the make shift Big East that's evolving.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

So Cuse and Pitt to ACC.... and alot of rumors they'll invite UConn and Rutgers to get to 16....

OU, UT, OSU and TTU bail to the PAC.

Mizzou and TA&M to the SEC........

And the B1G doesn't necessarily need/want to add anyone if ND isn't budging.

Better hit the liquor store... they close early on Sundays, ya know.....

Brian Skelly 8 years, 2 months ago

The problem is, and has been, there are really no options. We're at best going to be the 16th team somewhere.

While that would certainly be great, nothing floated out there right now gives me any faith that the Big 10 is going to expand soon.

Could we form a "leftover big 12 / leftover big east"? Yes, and yes. It'll happen most likely.

Could that bide us time and hope we get asked to join the Big 10? Possibly. But we certainly cant be holding our breath about.

We dont fit in the SEC in any way shape or form, We DO fit in with the ACC most likely, but we're not going in solo --- why would both the conference and KU do that if KU was an outlier -- hundreds of miles away from its closest competition? I find that doubtful.

The Big 10 is clearly our best hope, and probably our only hope. The convoluted Big East idea is seemingly the most likely thing to happen. This is acceptable for the short term, but I agree with what folks are saying about the long term viability with it.

Regardless, unless were in one of the Super Conferences, the dollars, coverage, and scope of all things KU will be diminished.

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt: Keep up the good work! Being an old Navy "salt", I'm concerned about your comment "how KU stirs the ship".. Out in a Western Pacific typhoon years ago, we lost rudder control, could not steer very well, thought we were going to capsize! Kinda like KU, lost Athletic Department control years ago and now we are trying to navigate on a turbulent sea.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

I remember during the last big baseball strike, I decided I had had enough. I haven't really followed it much since then and the Royals have never given me a reason to change my mind. With the Chiefs looking as pathetic as ever and now "Super" Conferences making my school a second tier program, I may just give up on sports spectating all together. I'll always support KU, I just can't find myself following it as passionately any longer. This whole thing is depressing and its making me rather bitter. Texas Tech is going to live and prosper, but not KU? West Virginia, but not KU? Rutgers, but not KU?

I sure hope Tait is right about these options, because if KU is no longer a major player in college sports, this may be my last year of following them "closely". I'll cheer for them, hope they do well. I just can't see myself as invested as I am and have been in the past.

Utah, but not KU! It is absolutely insane.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

Washington State, Oregon State, Wake Forest, Duke, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt all because they were fortunate enough to be in a conference that had the vision and leadership to remain stable and viable.

What makes me sick is that the Big 12 could be thriving if all members were treated as equals like the other viable conferences. Shame on KU and others for continuing to support UT over the last 15 years.

Ryan Mullen 8 years, 2 months ago

You may be the worst fan ever. I don't care if KU get downgraded to D2 status I will follow them and love them just as much as I do now.

Steve Hillyer 8 years, 2 months ago

So OU got fed up with Texas and basically started the death watch for the Big12, now they find themselves right back with Texas....what the hell did they gain, they're still with Texas and Texas gets to keep their network and thus more money than anybody else.

Brad Potter 8 years, 2 months ago

Tait, while i appreciate your outstanding reporting on this realignment mess I do think the optimism should be tamped down if not deleted altogether. It's apparent more than ever that KU has no real options and if options mean some USAesque conference with the big east leftovers then that is not an option but rather a monumental step back. Let's start with reality and use that as the platform; reality is Kansas has more mammals than humans, two major universities and two marginal at best football programs. Oh and one of those programs gave up 604 yards of rushing yesterday. Sorry to be bleak but it's the reality of the cards we were dealt.

FYI: I posted this above but want to post at end of comments to have a double tait attack.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

We're all forgetting something folks. I know this is all FB driven,but if KU is left in some shabby conference, that is non-BCS (and whatever is left over of the BE just may be that way) you really think Self is going to stick around?

Hell, Calipari did it just to get back into coaching again, with intent to move to a better school. I doubt Self will stick around in some no name conference. Face it, KU is BB. That highly-overpaid FB coach is not going to take us to the next level folks.

JayDocMD 8 years, 2 months ago

As far as "other options", the Big 10 is the ONLY option if OU and TX announce PAC intentions. I've felt all along that was our best landing spot but also the longest shot as their commish seems so vocal against further expansion. Also, I'm not sure how any conference can even begin serious back channel negotiations with KU with the KState tagalong problem unresolved. Sure Bernadette said we aren't hitched but it's not her decision.

The only thing I can hope for re: any form of Big 10 invite would be an agreement contingent upon certain factors. Factors such as Notre Dame's status, possibly MU availability (although they didn't seem to want them last year when they all but put themselves in the classifieds), Kstate non-involvement and delayed membership until next TV contract is due. Dunno - seems like too many obstacles and big "if's." A contingency based Big 10 invite at this time is a welcome dream, even if a pipe dream. Otherwise all that's left is a nightmare.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

The two schools are not tied. Even the Regents comments a few weeks ago indicated that they 'preferred' the schools stay together. They did not say they are tied together by law.

lv_jhwk 8 years, 2 months ago

I can assure you (from the mouth of an actual Regent)..."No, the two schools are NOT tied together."

Now, if you think that is an absolute, I've got tickets to next year's Big 12 Championship game in Arrowhead to sell you.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

I suggest KSU become AAU certified. It doesn't help their case currently.

Ryan Gerstner 8 years, 2 months ago

K-State has no chance to be AAU; it'd be a waste of time for them to apply. They'd be laughed out of the room. KU is a fringe AAU school as is. We need to get our act together.

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

Calhawk, it is insane. It's also very SAD. We have been out-smarted and out-menuevered.

And unfortunately it's been predictable.

Over the last couple of years, we have blindly put all our efforts into supporting the Big12, and as such trusting our fortunes with Texas and OU.

We were not bold. We did not make our own destiny.

And I think there may be a dirty little secret here... I could be wrong about this so please call me out, if you find differently. I think this unequal revenue sharing in the Big12, we actually supported...

If I remember right, we ranked #3 or #4 in the Big12 in revenue. Texas, OU, followed by KU. We benefited from this. And it was because we unequally shared our basketball revenue.

Apparently in the Big12 world, hoops rev did make a difference.

Someone, check me on that.

But apparently it doesn't matter, relative to the football TV money.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

Mass suicide at Allen Field house tonight at 8 PM... Be there!

Michael Maris 8 years, 2 months ago

I thought BGL was well connected to the ACC? That is ok. BGL will lose her job (if KU doesn't end up in a BCS League). If she can't get the $$$$$$$$$$ people to force some issues, then she is not up to the task of running a University with Endowments worth Billions.

Missouri had over 60,000 fans for a game against Western Illinois. Kansas can't get 50,000 fans for a game against better competition in Northern Illinois. That is the main problem. Then, the fans all leave before halftime.

I won't hang this one on Sheahon Zenger. He has been @ KU for less than a year. Afterall, we all should've known what was coming down the pike, when Lew Perkins put the KU Rowing team in Conference USA. And, that took place in the 2009/2010 Athletic Season. Thanks Lew. Couldn't figure out a way to get the rowing team into the B1G?

If Baylor, KU, K-State, Iowa State and Missouri do not get selected to join a BCS conference, let those schools all declare their independence (after they all collect the Big XII Exit Fees) and all go independent. That way, we can all schedule our games against each other and be money whores (in the games against Notre Dame, BYU and play our games against them on ESPN/ABC, NBC, BYU Network.

That would be KU can get paid by Notre Dame, BYU, we can play 6 other games against Army, Navy, and other schools.

Then, the fans of all their respective schools can all subscribe ($80.00 a year) to their local University 3rd Tier Network (JayHawk Internet TV) and watch our games and support our respective schools and our respective Universities will get to keep all of that money.

Get 200,000 fans watching via the internet @ $80.00 a seasonm, that is $16,000,000.00 a year that our respective Universities would get to keep for themselves (and NOT have to share with any other school period).

Then, Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri (if they don't join a new league) could all join the Missouri Valley Conference in Basketball, Baseball, Volleyball, etc..... and KICK some major Booty. Baylor might choose to join a league in Texas that is more suitable for traveling purposes (instead of the Missouri Valley).

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

Memorial Stadium is kinda garbage, too. I know we all like the nostalgia of it, but there is NO way a 18 year old kid looks around Memorial and thinks "this is where I want to play"

lama 8 years, 2 months ago

Missouri has been winning, hence the fan support at home. But how many times have they been passed over for decent bowls because MU fans don't travel? Fair-weather fans at best. See the 8,000 that show up for home basketball games.

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

If the SEC, would we need to put a 3rd flagpole on Fraser Hall to accommodate the "Stars and Bars". South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi and Georgia have done quite well by doing so.

Just practicing:

"Oh, I wish I were in the Land of Cotton Old Times there are not Forgotten Look away, look away, look away, Dixieland"

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

Why didn't we go that when we merged with the four Texas schools? By the way, look at the US News Rankings. KU is pretty much in the middle of the SEC.

Daniel Kennamore 8 years, 2 months ago

West Virginia is applying to the SEC.

None by Colin Dunlap

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

Interesting if it's true... I didn't see that coming as WVU voted in favor of higher ACC exit fees.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

WVU is in the Big East, for the moment.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

Duh! Right you are... thanks guys.... been a long day :-(

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

I've often wondered how living just miles from the Chiefs has affected the football following at KU. Worked in Kansas City for 20 years with many other KU alums; but they seemed to be more Chiefs aligned than with The Hawks. Of course, the TV news blabbers on and on about Chiefs, but givers little worthwhile coverage to KU, KSU and MU.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

The Chiefs didn't stop K-State from becoming a national power in the 90s with a reputation of travelling well to bowl games. I contend that the reason for the football apathy among KU fans is a mediocre product on the field. Glen Mason saw some modest success but was gone before the Big 12 really got started. Mangino really only elevated KU to the middle of the conference and the fans showed up and the KU was able to upgrade its facilities.

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

Why would WVU have any say in ACC exit fees since they are a member of the BigEast now. Makes sense for them to join SEC, like Missouri, a border state!

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

If you know your Civil War history, WV is probably more anti-slavery than Kansas. They broke off from Virginia in the middle of the Civil War because they did not want to secede.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

I will be very surprised if SEC accepts their application.

South is still fighting the civil war. I was a damn yankee when I lived in Birmingham.

djhawk75 8 years, 2 months ago

All of the wild speculation and hourly updates that have more twists than a bad soap opera make my head spin to the point of nausea. I don't know where KU will land, but I do have my concerns. Basically KU is a public university in a small state that does not support its own public universities very well and sits in a bad market location. To make matters worse our football team can't compete in any BCS conference at the moment. Those factors put together means KU has a budget that is rather small compared to the other BCS programs, and therefore, is not very desirable to other BCS conferences. We do have one of the finest basketball programs in the country and a brand that is appreciated nationwide. We also have a great fan base. I'm just hoping that our positives outweigh the negatives in the eyes of at least one of these big conferences. I'm confident that our president and AD are trying to sell those positives to the ACC and the Pac--whatever. I'm just hoping that they can close a deal somewhere in the BCS.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

ACC and PAC are out of play, unless they go past 16. Big 10, or a reformed Big 12 via merging in the remnants of the going down in flames, too, Big East, and others.

Ryan Gerstner 8 years, 2 months ago

Wrong. KU has a pretty good sized budget and in fact, a lot larger than most. We're in the top half of the Big XII. We've been as high as 11 or 12 in the country. We do just fine. Doesn't mean we don't need more support, but KU isn't some poor little school like you want to portray.

Steve Brown 8 years, 2 months ago

tomorrow we rename Mass Street, Jefferson Davis Way.

on a serious note, we divert the Kaw from emptying into Big Mo, cut a channel to Lake Michigan and get us a great lake shoreline.

if you feel bad, how about Baylor, wonder how times on big votes they went lock step with Longhorns on the other side of the Issue with Nebraska the last few years, how smart does that loyalty look now.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

OK, I have a possible longshot "option" that might be something you just don't hear a lot right now. A while back, there was a rumor that Missouri was offered a "structured" B1G membership opportunity. In other words, it wouldn't receive the full benefits the other B1G members received for a few years, presumably after the B1G renegotiates its contract in 2016, I think it is, but I could be wrong on the date. Missouri turned them down because they believed at the time they still had full membership options to other conferences.

Perhaps KU also has this "structured" membership offer and is simply waiting to see if they can't get a full offer somewhere else while simultaneously looking out for KSU? Maybe this is the "last resort option" KU employs where they sacrifice money and regional ties in order to be part of a major conference and not completely sink its athletic program. In this measure, KU has a home for its basketball and can still recruit and compete at the highest levels.

This is just me desperately trying to think of what other "options" could possibly be in place in the wake of the ACC school grab.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

I just read Matt's latest post, and it appears our options were tied to an alliance to Texas. Wow, I hope his trust in the Longhorns is deeper than mine. Perhaps there is something to that deal we made to have our game on the LHN? Would love for the PAC-18 idea to be true, but I have seen nothing to indicate that possibility, and everything I have read seems to be the Longhorns batting for the Red Raiders, not us. Maybe that is a smokescreen so Texas can say, "We tried" to the Texas BOR.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

I think NU took such a structured deal for joining the Big 10.

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

Didn't know about that "structured deal" but if that's the case we should jump on that. Hopefully we are waiting for the Big 12 to crumble so we don't have to pay an exit fee. But if the remaining Big 12 schools, ISU, KSU and Baylor merge with the remaining Big East schools would we have to pay an exit fee?

Daniel Kennamore 8 years, 2 months ago

So Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Texas, Oklahoma, Okie State, A&M, and Texas Tech all have been working towards more stable homes in the past month, and those plans are now coming into the limelight.

What has KU's administration been doing? As I've been saying all month, the Big East is as dead as the Big 12...and if they were planning on that being their fallback Zenger and BGL should be fired on the spot.

Heck, fire them today and beg Lew Perkins to come back.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

As much of a slime ball Lew may or may not be, I bet he'd get it done for Kansas.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

As much of a slime ball Lew may or may not be, I bet he'd get it done for Kansas.

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't know. Reading the Seth Davis article with Perkins, I was troubled by his comments about being tied to K-State. I wonder if his attempt not to anger the legislature along with his scandals made him a passive player last summer.

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 2 months ago

First, a question to those who want KU to join the PAC: have you actually travelled to the West Coast in a continuous basis? Having done so for many years, I can tell you that it is highly undesirable from a fan and from the players (ask Coach Self, if you do not believe me) perspective.

In the present configuration, a KU fan can easily travel to KSU, MU, ISU, OU and OSU and come back the same day. This no longer feasible for the fans (and players) if they have to travel to the West Coast as the cost and time away would increase significantly. Many coaches have commented that the cost and additional time involved would be extremely disruptive as well. Traveling more than one time zone is a PITA.

Having said that, I had a dream last night about a new and improved conference based on what is left of the Big 12.

First expansion to 12: Notre Dame, BYU and Air Force. With all the realignment and the prospects of a Super Power conference, this is not as farfetched as it would seem at first sight.

Next expansion to 16: Add SMU, TCU, Navy and Army. With this expansion the 3 branches of the military get to play each other for something more meaningful than bragging rights.

The conference could be called “God and Country” or better yet “Heart of the Nation.” Heart of America is already taken but can always be bought/negotiated.

This conference would encompass probably 80% to 90% of the Country’s population with a religious affiliation and 100% of people that respect the Armed Forces. Who would dare raid this conference and go against God and Country?

The South would be: Texas Texas Tech Oklahoma Air Force Baylor SMU TCU BYU

The North would be: Notre Dame OSU KU KSU MU ISU Army Navy

Notre Dame would almost be assured a yearly shot at the conference title and a BCS bowl as well as it gets to keep its TV network money. The south would retain the Texas-Oklahoma rivalry. Solid football and basketball conference all around.

As I said, it is only a dream…but you never know…

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 2 months ago

Not necessarily. If the trend is 4 or 5, 16-team super conferences, then the age of the independent program comes to an end and Notre Dame is left in the cold. Why would Notre Dame want to become an also run in the Big 10 (or another conference) where it does not get to keep its network money, when it can be the big dog in a solid conference where it does get to keep its network money and becomes a perennial contender?

Having said that, my post what just a whimsical flight of fancy. However, seeing how things are changing on an hourly basis, can you actually dismiss any scenario, however unrealistic it might seem at the time?

selfishhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

No, I do know! This is impossible on so many levels - it's as if you and the KU administration are reading children's books with your free time. The big 12's dead!!!!!!!! Let it go and move on .. quickly. The latest new is that Texas and company are going to form the PAC 16. The 16th will look like it is Texas Tech. But that's wrong. The 16th team is Utah, which took KU's spot last year while we were busy doing exactly what we are doing RIGHT NOW: with extreme incompetence and futility, trying to save the conference.

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 2 months ago

As I indicated in my post, it was just a dream...did you not read that part? At this time all opinions expressed here, and yes, that includes yours and mine, are pure speculation; nothing more nothing less. None of us have any inside information on what is going on behind the scenes as shown by the move of Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC. hopefully, after the meeting of the Texas and Oklahoma Boards of Regents, the situation might be a little clearer...and then, maybe not.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

The one thing to prevent B12/BE leftovers is if late tonight UT comes up with a "brilliant plan" to save the B12, which of course means even more concessions to UT. I never could get UT agreeing to be one of equals with WSU and Utah, but Bevo may have painted himself into such a corner with the LHN, the P12 is his only out. At least I can laugh as UT goes from being the "Joneses" to the Clampetts. Bevo's not going to push around the CA schools.

Stephan123 8 years, 2 months ago

It is unfortunate that the Big12 could not have survived. Also, how unfortunate last years movement to the Pac-10 did not become a reality...it would have been Kansas not Utah now playing in the Pac-16. Perhaps it would be best to get out of the football arms race and drop the program, if feasible. Stay with BB and ride that horse.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

Um, NO. KU's football stadium makes more money than does AFH. Do you not know this? If KU can go a mediocre 7-5 every year in FB it will bring so much more money than will BB.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

That's a lot of hardware we just put on campus to give up on. KU football does generate a good amount of revenue, it just doesn't do it on the scale of the major football programs.

Hey, as long as we're passing around blame, what about the Kansas High School Athletics hand din all this. For years, restrictions for football athletics compared to other states have handicapped the development of quality as well as the quantity of Division 1 players. In a way, the State of Kansas contributed to its own made bed.

jhox 8 years, 2 months ago

If we landed in a power conference, and KSU landed in the Mountain West or some remnant of the Big East/ Big 12, that would be an instant shot in the arm to KU's football program. Before long we would be so much more popular with in state fans, and perhaps we could increase our stadium seating and sell out games in a bigger venue. Kansas is too small to support two BCS caliber football teams, but it is big enough to support one, provided that one gets most of the attention from in state fans and media. KSU's demise could actually be good for KU football.

phoggedin 8 years, 2 months ago

At this point, I'm most worried about KU's demise, not K-State's. We need a good landing spot. And fast.

jhox 8 years, 2 months ago

Me too, my friend...Me too. It was only my intention to point out that what is best for KU is not what is best for both KU and KSU.

jhox 8 years, 2 months ago

I've thought all along that if OU, OSU, and Texas went to the Pac 12, we could have the 4th spot if we wanted it. That's a big if...

Besides the issue of possibly being tied to KSU, there is also the travel issue. Regardless, unless there have been behind the scene talks with the Big 10 or SEC that we're not aware of, KU needs to be on the phone right now to Scott, and secure our spot out West in the place of Tech. There is no way the Pac 12 would chose them over us if they had the option. We do not want to be in what is left of the Big East / Big 12.

It is encouraging that Matt commented on how he's felt all along we'd end up where Texas ends up. We've been very loyal to them over the years, and I could see where they would view us as a more desirable dance partner than, say, Tech or MU. MU is the school that helped start this mess with their "we belong in the Big 10" talk a couple of years ago. It is also encouraging that yesterday's rumor was KU and UT to the ACC. Perhaps we are UT's dance partner, in which case Zenger has been doing his job well.

Even more desirable than UT, OU, OSU and KU to the Pac 12 would be those 4 schools plus MU and Tech or KSU. That would keep us conference rivals with MU.

Of course, the best outcome would be MU and KU to the Big 10, though the Big 10 has been pretty quiet on the idea of expansion anytime soon (unless and until ND gives up their independence.

We could be screwed here, but it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings (I think the fat lady has already done so when it comes to the Big 12, but she hasn't as it relates to KU's hopes of landing in a power conference.)

rob4lb 8 years, 2 months ago

You need to accept the fact that our options were limited. It amazes me that some people don't have a grasp of reality, We never got an invitation to the Pac 10 last year. There was never a discussion.

You don't think there have been discussions with other conferences? They don't want us. I know it is hard, but we do not bring any value and to make public statements like a petulant child that we want out, would have done more harm than good. I am as frustrated as everyone, but I understand that don't exactly come from a position of power.

klineisanazi 8 years, 2 months ago

TT gets in cuz Texas wants them. That simple.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

The 12 voting member voted to give Scott the power to broker the best deal. I'm pretty sure you don't have to teach Scott how to recognize the best deal. But, anyone knows there is a give and take in negotiation, and KU simply isn't that strong of a card to make it an impediment to a deal to acquire Texas.

Joseph Kuebel 8 years, 2 months ago

Agree 1500%...

If A&M can leave their schools behind and Baylor isn't included in THE PAC16 WHY IN GODS NAME WOULD TTU get there before us???

UT isn't gonna deny the PAC because they didn't want TT. This is ludcrous loser mentality.

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

Our shot with the PAC was to get the 13th spot, not the 16th spot. #16 goes to TTech, because Texas can dicatate it.

If we would have had strong leadership, they could have figured out as many on this board did, that...

The Big12 was dead The BigE was dead-man-walking

After connecting the dots on that, maybe they could have seen the play...

Get to Larry Scott first. Larry, take us now, OU and OSU will announce shortly after. Then go to Texas. They may say no, but it WON'T be because they can't take their little sister program. Bevo looks out for Bevo.

If Texas says no, Missouri is a lock.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

If you go back through my posts, I had one that I outlined such a situation. He could have forced the move by Texas without taking Tech. He simply had to make UT the last domino.

If Larry Scott had simply gave an invite to KU publicly, BGL and Zenger would have been unable to turn it down. But he chose to stay politically correct, and it appears we did not work under the table well enough to make it happen.

Hopefully the last chapter is not written. Maybe this opens up a Mizzou/KU package to the SEC or Big 10. Maybe the remainders of the Big East form up a BCS conference that ends up being better for us in the long run.

Tough to say right now, still in that "funeral for the Big 12 will commence Monday, September 19th" phase.

Josh Galler 8 years, 2 months ago

I am hoping Big 10 calls KU, MU, ISU and ND Monday night to invite them to the Big 10? If not we are screwed

Most likely with WVU to SEC for 14 BYU TCU and Mizzou top FB, KU Louisville and KSU as top BB

Kansas KSU ISU Mizzou Baylor Cincy Louisville TCU SMU Air Force BYU Colorado State Houston

Kevin Morris 8 years, 2 months ago

must look at the reality of the situation. 50,000 seat stadium that we can't fill if we give seats away. football is driving the bus and our football bus belongs in conference USA. Wish it was different but it's not. SMU, Rice, and Tulsa. TCU and Baylor if we're lucky. Basketball won't fall as far as we think. And for all our BB recruits, we still can't win more than a couple games in March and we can't even sell our the BOK Center 50 miles from the Kansas border. We slept for too long. We owned the Big12 in BB but it doesn't exist.

lama 8 years, 2 months ago

KU had no problem filling Memorial Stadium when it was winning a few years ago. Also, is that even true about BOK? If so, it was likely because Texas fans didn't buy seats to watch the 'Horns lose to Arizona.

Kevin Morris 8 years, 2 months ago

Thousands of open seats. I was there. I was shocked.

phoggedin 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't see how it's possible that we end up with Texas in the Pac at this point. I think it's pretty clear that Texas has made moving with Texas Tech a key point of negotiations all along (see the Orangebloods and Austin American-Statesmen stories for details). There's no way the Pac goes to 18 just so it can add KU. It doesn't make financial sense, nor does it make sense in terms of the league's structure. With 16, you can have 4-team pods that give teams regular access to both Texas and California. With an 18 or 20 team conference, you're not getting that.

If our big "plan" was to stick with Texas, then it wasn't a very good plan because Texas doesn't care that much about KU.

klineisanazi 8 years, 2 months ago

I doubt that was the plan. We probably just pitched to anyone that would listen. They just aren't buying because KU has nothing they want . The decades of being a basketball school are probably going to make KU pay dearly.

AZHawk72 8 years, 2 months ago

With all the Big 12 destruction/Pac 12 addition talk of late, I have to admit to being blindsided by the ACC additions of Syracuse and Pittsburgh. Losers: TCU, yo, seven teams doesn't qualify as a league; Big Ten--hey Pittsburgh would have caused a Penn State block attempt, meaning you should have gone after them. Big East: incredibly, you beat us to the funeral because you're officially dead now, with Connecticut and Rutgers poised to join the ACC for their coveted Madison Square championship game.

Can we get past the fact that no one wants Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa-St or Baylor?

Missouri and West Virginia seem to be the best meat on the table for an all-out dogfight between the Big 10 and the SEC. For the first time ever, there may be some serious pressure for Notre Dame to join the Big 10, this time from within. This is no possiblity of them going anywhere else--they already play Mich, Mich-St, and Purdue every year. All one has to do is structure an east-west or north-south division that allows them to continue their rivalries and keep USC and Navy on their schedule, and the good Fathers will genuflect to the Big 10+2+2. Hopefully, something better than "Legends" and "Leaders" will emerg--maybe "losers" and "wannabees."

And the Great Southwest should be: North: Kansas, Kansas-St, Iowa-St plus Colorado-St, Air Force, BYU, Cinncinati, and Lousiville; South: Baylor plus TCU, Southern Meth (namesake premieres tonight), Rice, Houston, Tulsa, Memphis, and New Mexico or South Florida.

If the all-new Great Southwest doesn't get proactive and do something, we'll be trampled as much as we were on the football field yesterday. PS Take a look at the basketball power assembled--sorry, SEC, Big 10, and PAC--we can't wait for the home and away basketball series in the future. ,

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

Reference Tait's 5:54pm update:

1 is absolutely horrible, where is my katana?

2 would be the dream, and if the WVU application to the SEC is true, then the KU-MU window is still there. Is it enough market share to take on the two? Notre Dame is going to have to see its options running out first to be pressured to jump. If the B1G is going to expand, it ought to take these two schools now. I'm sure we would agree to the structured membership if that is what it takes. But the B1G needs to make the playing field look as bleak as possible to force Notre Dame.

3 would be great too, I just haven't seen any chatter about it at all. Maybe Scott feels the KU-MU along with Texas and OU offers enough upside to expand beyond 16? Scheduling would seem to be a nightmare to get all teams exposure to one another, but there would be no doubt what conference owns the western United States.

DevilHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

The move by the ACC could actually benefit KU. By going to 14 teams, they are likely to push the other conferences - namely the PAC and the SEC - to go up to 16 teams. After those three conferences go to 16, the B1G will almost certainly look to go up to 16 teams as well by adding four more schools.

If the B1G sticks to adding only AAU members, then these are the schools from current AQ conferences that they would consider if they don't go after schools in the other three super conferences: Iowa State University Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey The University of Kansas University of Missouri-Columbia
* University of Texas - Austin

The B1G could also go after AAU schools in the ACC, AAU schools currently in non-AQ leagues, or non-AAU schools. However, if they don't, then KU is in a very strong position to land in the B1G.

Kevin Morris 8 years, 2 months ago

Hopefully our leaders aren't caught up in the Big 10 dream. No way they're looking at KU unless we suddenly have 80,000 football fans. Baylor or Houston or TCU bring more to the table in fans and TVs. the only place in the world that anyone thinks KU is more desirable than Texas Tech is Lawrence. Not talking the city of Lubbock, no one wants to be there, but Tech is a different story. Best hope at this point is that somehow we extract exit fees from our 4 brothers headed west and we can buy new friends from what's left of the Big East and Conference USA

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt doesn't know anything more than anybody else guys. And if Texas wants TT in the Pac 12, then TT will be in the Pac 12. The state of Texas brings too much to the table to say no to. Kansas and the state of Kansas cannot compete with population and $$$.

Eric Dawson 8 years, 2 months ago

"The state of Texas brings too much to the table to say no to."

I disagree. The Pac1# is the buyer here. The Pac1# can get Texas U without taking TT if that is what enough of its members want.

Texas U brings a lot to the table. TT really brings nothing the Pac1# values except making Texas U more willing to come (it avoids the political problems inherent in tu leaving TT behind, same as KU with KSU).

But the truth is that if enough of the Pac1# members simply are not willing to take TT, they will choose not to take them. Remember, they have stood up to Texas on every point Texas wanted until now, and now they are seeing how they can make the LHN fit into the Pac1# revenue sharing model, which is really a concession on the part of both parties. If Texas U objects when told TT is not wanted, the Pac1# can point to allowing a form of the LHN to exist as a major concession they -- the buyer -- are willing to make, and that it is Texas U's turn to make a concession. Also remember the Pac1# chose to offer CU last year to cut the legs out from under any Texas efforts to add unwanted Baylor on to the Pac1# manifest.

The Pac1# knows it has the upper hand and that Texas U has no real options besides the Pac1#. tu wanted the B1G or the ACC, and it got nowhere with them because of all the issues involved, especially TT and the LHN. Even with Texas U and TT, the Big 12 without A&M, OU & OSU is simply not going to be able to keep the current contracts at the current $ levels.

Texas is caught in a trap of its own making, and is looking for a way out. The Pac1# is the buyer and Texas U is the seller here. They have a very nice product that the Pac1# would like to have but does not need to have. Do not believe for one minute that the Pac1# membership do not understand who has the power position in these negotiations. This ain't the old Big 8 membership Texas is dealing with here.

I am not saying that TT won't go to the Pac1#. I am saying that if enough of the current Pac1# membership do not want TT, TT won't get an offer even though Texas wants to bring TT in on Texas' coattails.

Kristen Downing 8 years, 2 months ago

I say KU is waiting a bit to make sure they get their share of the 4 to 5 schools exit fees. After all, they are a broke state school. Then they have one obvious choice to band (grab, whatever) with certain Big East schools (include TCU for football) add BYU and write the tighest contracts they can. If we don't see Missouri panic and apply to the SEC now that West Virginia has, there may be another more hidden plan for KU/MU to go to the BIG10. They are a conference who have managed to keep their head about them and keep their geographical footprint intact. If we see Missouri make a move toward the SEC, then I am dreaming. Justification for the BIG10: Want another AAU school to make up for Nebraska, they need better basketball and don't tell me Tom Osborne doesn't have any pull and he likes Turner Gill. Maybe I'm dreaming....

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

If they instead vote to dissolve, there won't be exit fees to collect. And we'll loose the Big 12 name, the TV contracts, and other valuables too.

So the forlorn four better be on the phone to get one of those five (MU) to not vote to dissolve. With the promise of no exit fee, if they go without us.

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 2 months ago

I believe it was the Missouri Chancellor that indicated that legally the Big 12 could go on for 2 years with 5 teams before it loses its BCS certification. If there is a vote, KU, KSU, ISU, MU and Baylor could block any proposal to dissolve the conference and then divide the exit fees paid by the other teams...it could be a nice piece of change.

Ryan Gerstner 8 years, 2 months ago

Tait, thanks for all your hard work on this stuff. Out of all the area media, you've been by far the best on the subject of conference realignment. By far. Kudos.

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

+100000. Thanks for all your hard work Matt

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

PAC12 fan here. I really have to agree to couple of comments in the comment trail that KU had one preemptive shot at PAC12 when they should NOT have waited for OU/OSU to make the first move. At the very least, they should work together with OU/OSU on petition the PAC for their 13, 14, and 15th membership. This way, KU/OU/OSU can either force Texas hand or MU would come to be a play. All along, I really liked the idea of adding OU/OSU/KU/MU to the PAC12 because I, unlike other people, do value the AAU status and I think the fact tha both KU and MU have that is a real plus to the PAC. Unfortunately, I do not understand why KU would wait for other schools to decide their fate and now, with UT and TT in tow, we are really, realistically, looking at the OU/OSU/UT/TT to the PAC12 now. It's really too bad that KU wasted that one awesome opportunity it had.

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

Thank you. There have been more than several folks advocating this move. Obviously we don't know what's gone on behind the scences. But it sure appears that BGL, Zenger, the BOR was unable to connect the dots.

Everything they says is... we continue to wait on Oklahoma.

How pathetic.

willie_fu_fu 8 years, 2 months ago

I'd be stoked if we landed in the B1G. Road trips to Iowa(close), October games @Wisconsin, A trip to Chicago for the Northwestern game, having Nebraska back on the schedule, Minnesota wouldn't be too bad either. Plus having Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan and possibily Notre Dame comming in. Not only that but the B1G is a baskeball league we could win and we have good recruiting success in Chicago. Also remember who knows how good Ohio State will be now that they have a new HC, could take a Michican type dive. Jo Pa won't be a Penn State much longer so we'll see how they react once a change is made there, Iowa State just beat Iowa, NU isn't the NU of old, NU and Minnesota are winnable games and Wisky could be a possible win if we get better.

blindrabbit 8 years, 2 months ago

JayHawkFan2 mentioned service teams: Sure there are many Veterans out there among the KU fan base! Since KU has not been able to turn the corner consistently in football, I've gone back to my Navy days and become a big Navy fan, pretty good team also. , Air Force has had a pretty good team the last several years as well. By doing this, I keep up my KU loyalty without feeling guilty about supporting another team. Saw Perkins on campus several years ago and asked about scheduling a service academy; he indicated that he had some connections and had tried to accomplish this; apparently the academies are in high demand. Think it would be tough to get them (Navy and Army) to give up their Independent status to join a conference.

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 2 months ago

Don't forget that the Armed Forces Network reaches...well, all over the world!

TXBBall55 8 years, 2 months ago

Complete disaster doesn't begin to sum it up. BGL needs to resign immediately. I'll never donate a dime with her at the helm.

Pitthawk34 8 years, 2 months ago

If the administration wants to keep quiet on everything that is fine but it had better mean something good because after all this goes down and we are putting together a new conference...heads had better roll.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

wait until those Pac 12 team roll into beautiful Lubbock! LOL.

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 2 months ago

I've changed my tune from earlier. My new percentages are...

NOT SCREWED: 0% SCREWED: 150%

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 2 months ago

I love Matt's positive approach, but this does not look good!

blackhawkjayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Is there a point where a conference is no longer a conference? If the Pac 100 goes to 16 or 20 teams, aren't we essentially down to two conferences that play a championship game? This stuff gets more nonsensical each day.

Matt may not believe that a "remnant" conference is good for KU. I think that it might be the best thing for us.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

I think he is in agreement with Keegan as well.

However, I think it is the worst idea of all. I'd rather go independent than join a remnant program.

blackhawkjayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Boise State doesn't seem to have a hard time succeeding, or TCU for that matter. Would you rather have their football teams or ours? The PAC 100 is the worst concept out there and anyone who thinks it's a good idea is clueless. Especially someone who thinks that our value as a university or as an athletic department depends on associating with Colorado and Utah.

utahjayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

The ramifications of this drama are so much bigger than just football, even though decisions are primarily being made based on football and market share.

Pitthawk34 8 years, 2 months ago

It will be hard to recruit and without the TV revenue, people had better triple their donations. Maybe we need to knock the roof off of AFH and add another 5,000 seats like they did at OSU.

Kevin Randell 8 years, 2 months ago

Epic Fail......if it does end up that we put together the Big Shell conference of former Big XII and Big East we can just consider ourselves no better than the old WAC conference when they were a 16 team conference....remember back then? A bunch of team....but no real power house.

Guys...this is absolute bull crap! It is starting to look like our trusted AD and Chancellor just sat on their butts and didn't do a thing! I am a Williams Fund donor.....a season ticket holder...oh and an Alum who spent over 40K in education at KU so I am pissed!!!

You bet that this will hurt recruiting all around! I would be calling the Big 10 tomorrow and doing whatever it took to be able to join.

Kevin Randell 8 years, 2 months ago

Hey mangino.....might as well just put bust on your profile pic.....lol. Get ready to be a powerhouse in the Big Shell conference!!!

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Get ready for option 1. But No.2 is still possible, especially if Rutgers goes to ACC.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

The NCAA has failed as an organization. They have not made any move to reign in the chaos. I say that College Football move from the auspices of college institutions and be governed by the NFL and become in name what they truly are, Minor league teams for the NFL. Pay the athletes in cash not classes. If they want to go to school let them pay for it. I am done with college FB.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

The NCAA has been a shameful organizations my entire life. I assume those on here older than I would say the same thing.

If you haven't seen the crack baby South Park episode I highly encourage you to do so.

Truth in humor, it is.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

Its a long shot, but hear me out.... Everyone has been talking for the last couple of days that Texas may have overplayed their hand and doesn't actually have as many options as they once did. Well, Texas wants to bring Texas Tech along with them, and they'll probably make it happen... if they haven't already. That being said.... nobody wants Texas Tech in the PAC, ACC... you name it. Average sports and mediocre academics.

We might have a glimpse of hope if Larry Scott uses the weakness of Texas' position to remove Texas Tech from the table... Texas might have to accept as their only other option appears to be independence or gluing back together a big 12, Larry Scott could use the threat of inviting different schools (KU/Mizzou?) to put them in the hot seat.

Unlikely, I know... but what else can we do but hope?

TXBBall55 8 years, 2 months ago

Big 10 is all KU can hope for. PERIOD. It may take a year or two, but I think KU gets there. It's just going to be an agonizing wait in hell with the other throw away teams.

I just can't believe a complete turd of a school like Texas Tech go the better of KU.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

Here's the other problem: the PAC conference model. Every team has a "travel partner". With Ut and Texas Tech and then OU and OSU, that travel partners are fairly simple to figure out. If you replace Tech with Kansas, how do you split your travel partners? The travel partners are given a regional network. Are you really going to make a regional network with Texas and Kansas? Either the PAC has to expand beyond 16 or we are not going to the PAC.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

good points.... back to the batcave I guess....

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

Everybody needs to calm down and do some math. Let's assume a few things. It's going to be four 16 team power conferences. Thats a total of 64 schools. Let's also assume that the four conferences will be the PAC, SEC, ACC and B1G. Let's also assume that all conferences will expand to 16 teams. Now that the ACC has added 'Cuse and Pitt they need 2 more schools. The SEC with A&M need 3 more schools. The PAC if they add UT, TTech, OU, OSU are at 16. the B1G needs four schools. That leaves 9 spots.

Rutgers and UConn to the ACC.... They're set with the PAC 12.

SEC adds Missouri, W Viginia. And ____?

The B1G adds KU, Notre Dame (if they decide to go). And _ and __?

Point is there are plenty of spots that I can't fill in with respectable names. Will we lose one to Iowa St, KSU, Baylor, South Florida, Louisville, Cincinatti, TCU, SMU, Air Force, Colorado State, Houston, Boise State, Eastern Carolina, Memphis? I don't think so as long as each conference goes to 16 teams.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

We understand the math, that's not the problem. The problem is that no conference has explicitly stated 16 is the magic number or when they they have to get there. There isn't a magic money fairy that automatically increases conference payouts just because a conference increases with any old team. The teams they expand with have to increase the market share proportionately, or they are draining current conference member payouts. If you were one of the original B1G members, would you want to expand if it meant your school got less just to act as a shelter for schools that had nowhere else to go?

Its not a math game, its a need and value game. If the B1G decides it is in their best interests to expand, then yes, we might be in a better position. But, there is no guarantee of that. How many years did they stand at the odd number of 11?

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

Feel free to read closely. It says ASSUME. ASSUME 16 is the magic number. ASSUME conferences will expand. I stated it at the beginning and the end.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years, 2 months ago

I understand, but to me, it makes as much sense as saying "Assume realignment values basketball..." Why deal with things that aren't really a reality? It doesn't give me much reason to calm down.

phoggedin 8 years, 2 months ago

The key question is whether all these conferences actually go to 16. As of last night, the B1G commissioner said they were likely to stay at 12, at least for now.

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

I know. That's what I said. 16 teams creates the path to a playoff. 16 teams. 2 eight team divisions of each conferences with a conference championship. The four champions play in a two week play off to declare a difinitive champion with the rest going to a bowl game. It eliminate schools like Nebraska playing for a national championship without winning the conference like they did under Solic.

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

I still think KU should have grabbed UU's spot last year. Utah is in the PAC and KU is not? it's insane. The 2011 PAC12 championship game alone is worth $2M per school, which is more than Utah received the ENTIRE year from the MWC. PAC is the MOST stable conference in the land with their last addition of Arizona schools in 1978. It's also the one with the riches media contracts (and about to get a lot more now that the Big 10 4-some is about to join). I really want KU to be there.

lv_jhwk 8 years, 2 months ago

The disgust that Utah (along with a number of similar schools) could be in a BCS conference while KU is not, I get. The idea that the PAC-10 (at the time) wanted KU in tandem wih CU, I do not.

It wasn't until the last moments, before everything calmed down, that KU was even seriously mentioned as having a chance to go as a package with UT, OU, and OSU.

avaholic 8 years, 2 months ago

I think that whatever teams are left out in the cold by this should do the following:

  1. Quit the NCAA

  2. Form a new athletic association to rival the NCAA

  3. Pay the players who come

Who's in?

This is a joke, but really is it that absurd?

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 2 months ago

Someone update me on what an AAU school is?

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

Go to the source. http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476 Going to a secondary source of information that lets anyone update/post information is good way to get burned.

Daniel Kennamore 8 years, 2 months ago

"It's my belief that that stance was developed without the knowledge of a potential move by Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC, which now has happened."

If that's true they are idiots. Even mere armchair followers of realignment knew the Big East was toast weeks ago. Why exactly are Zenger and BGL paid their millions of dollars if they are that clueless?

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

"Even mere armchair followers of realignment knew the Big East was toast weeks ago."

Maybe they can read these threads here? That's what many of us have been saying.

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 2 months ago

This is a cry of complaint that does no one a bit of good, but me, so here it goes:

All my life, I have been screwed as a football fan, and now this. If I could start my life over from my birth in 1959, I would completely give up athletics and concentrate on things that matter more. Each fall weekend I have cheered on but mainly felt discouraged0embarrassed as a KU fan, and even funnier, my Sunday afternoons have been wasted away on the Cleveland Freaking Browns.

Yeah, that's right the Kansas Jayhawks and the Cleveland Browns. Added together, that's a century of disappointment, so if the realignment comes, so be it. It will end the misery.

Kevin Randell 8 years, 2 months ago

I am in the same boat with ya. But I am a Vikings fan! Two weeks in a row of blowing half time leads...ugh....

Oh, on someone who pointed out the 4/16 format. I would love for the Big 10 and SEC to come calling to make us number 16. But it looks like both of those conferences are going to be fine with 12 or 14 schools. Because they want their teams to have more money...rather than more schools. But let's hope.....

hawksfanatic 8 years, 2 months ago

Know what you mean, kilgore. When I saw KU's defeat by Penn State on tv that night of (was it?) January 1st, 1969, I became a college football fan. I have suffered through so many losing seasons with this team, I can't count them. I moved to Boston in 1980 and rooted for the Pats. Thank God, they got better over the years. Fortunately, I was able to attend the 2008 Orange Bowl and got to witness a major bowl victory - one I had been waiting for since 1969. KU has had that long to get on board, and yet we've lived in the shadow of basketball, which is wonderful but doesn't pay the bills. Now, we MAY be screwed. End the misery? If we are thrown into the dustbin of a bad conference, our athletic department might as well pack it up. Harvard and Yale play every year, but who really cares.

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 2 months ago

If I have reached one soul, then I have done what I can do. Really, I should have no complaints. First off, KU has been very entertaining in basketball, and I'll have Mario's Miracle and Danny and the Miracles memories my whole life. I feel as though our collegiate relevance is in critical condition.

American society has always been a dog-eat-dog game in which the weak are simply eaten alive. It has been this way since 1492. Everyone realizes this. Why did college athletics come along so lately?

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

Is KU's president and AD lobbying for PAC right now? If not they should call Larry every minute till tomorrow afternoon. They should do something before tomorrow's annoucement by UT and OU. They need to get that last spot in the PAC!

Justin Lindsley 8 years, 2 months ago

Big 10 would be unreal!! I am concerned about Syracuse and Pitt heading to the ACC. I think that might be the trigger that sets all this in to motion. It might even be the last nail in the coffin for the Big 12.

Maybe Oklahoma has been bluffing this whole time to gain leverage. With Syracuse and Pitt leaving and the ACC possibly going all "superconference". Oklahoma/Texas might bolt because of that. This situation is so fluid and crazy.

However, the "real" deals are usually quiet just like this ACC expansion. So who knows what is going to happen. Its enough to make your head want to explode!!! I just hope the Hawks end up in a great spot with long term stability.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt (or Mangino, or somebody, anybody!)

Do we have a solid link to any articles or sources from Texas Tech people? What about Baylor people?

If Larry Scott and UT are planning on including Tech in a move I would think they would have to know.

It is unlikely that UT calls up Tech in a day or so, "Hey we are rolling to the Pac 12, you want to go with us? Word is they got some pretty womens there!"

And if not anything, Baylor is belligerent, and I find it hard to believe that two major schools could be planning all this under their noses. They are extremely suspicious, we are talking girlfriend stalker crazy.

Mind you, after the Syracuse/Pitt bomb, I'm amazed at how hush-hush these schools can be.

So do we have any info from those two schools?

troutsee 8 years, 2 months ago

KU should join the Big East for BB if we are left out, which it appears that we will be. We should then be a FB independent (ND does this) and schedule some of the big boys so that we keep our attendance and season ticket sales up and continue to be on TV in FB. Joining a non-BCS conference for FB would lead to the demise of our athletic programs.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

too many games to go indie in BB. that's why there are no indie teams folks.

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 2 months ago

If we go indie and schedule "the big boys" they won't be playing us in Lawrence. We'll be playing in places like Columbus, Austin and Los Angeles!!!

blackhawkjayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Worst idea out there. Maybe worse than begging for a spot in the ACC. The only logical options:

Big 12

or

Big 10

or

Big East/Big 12 Combo

All are good choices. All are far better choices than the PAC.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

Thank you ..... somebody that can think logically.

Kevin Morris 8 years, 2 months ago

Reality is we have no chance on the Big 10. Big 12 and some combo of Big East Conf USA teams. Sooner we start living in reality the better our chance our chance of solving the problem

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm just hoping tomorrow during Monday Night Football, that the ticker line reads something like....In a surprise and quiet dealing, ND, KU, MU and BYU(?) have applied to the Big 10 for membership.

RIP - Big XII.

JayDocMD 8 years, 2 months ago

That 7:19 update depressed me more than anything. These "sources" mentioned have a deadly case of denial if they think at this stage of the game the Big 12 ship hasn't sailed. The last option was the Pitt/WV hail mary to keep OU on board, and once again Beebe was outmaneuvered.

The only appropriate moves in my eyes right now are:

1st. Call each PAC12 president and Larry Scott and say, "You are really going to take Texas Tech over us? Really? We fit the PAC 12 academic mold MUCH better than Tech. Do really want to make your fans go to Lubbock? Are you already letting Texas tell you what to do? Why don't you start this new conference off on the right foot and let TX know who is boss."

2nd. Call Big 10 and beg.

3rd. Call ACC/SEC and beg.

4th. Call 911 and report the murder of a conference.

bill_the_kat 8 years, 2 months ago

Funny but true so actually not that funny.

Brad Potter 8 years, 2 months ago

I just chopped down the enormous oak tree in my backyard. 100 years of tradition die fast... so my tree should as well. I hope the big east12 hire scott pioli as commish. He seems capable and up for the job.

I think my neighbors are pissed.

trey 8 years, 2 months ago

It looks to me like Matt and Keegan fell into the same trap as BGL and Zenger (or were asked to promote the party-line)...

They believed the Big12 could be saved. They believed that Texas cared about KU, and would take us with them. They believed that the Big East wanted us and that would be a good fall-back option.

WRONG on all three. Pitiful.

The average fan could see that the Big East was going to get poached just like the Big12. How did you all NOT see that?

So you put our destiny in the hands of Texas?

That's incredibly lazy, and will cost KU dearly (including our Basketball Coach), unless there is a 12th hour turnaroud.

Kevin Randell 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt....they are actually meeting in Tulsa tomorrow. If you like, make a trip down here. I will grab my grim reaper costume from Halloween and I can stand on the corner of 41st and Yale holding a Big XII sign....lol.

Tomorrow...my friends...is the beginning of the end of the Big XII conference and the new beginning of the Big Shell conference. Sorry to sound so gloom and doom, but I just hate to see it come to an end. Because lets be honest...a Big XII conference without OU or Texas in it is just a stronger version of Conference USA.

Hey....here is a funny idea...keep in mind I am joking here. How about we put a dome over Memorial Stadium....dismantle the football program and just have basketball there? I mean we are basically paying football ticket prices now for basketball games and why not go from 16K to 40-50K per game? Just a thought....lol.

Kristen Downing 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree with the only moves that have been successfully made are the ones we never heard about. And oh by the way, I hate the PAC12 and I live in LA. It is true, but I mostly added it to let that annoying "Pac or bust" guy know you are pretty much alone in your one sentence jabs. Now I am officially joining everyone and ignoring you.

Lawkan 8 years, 2 months ago

If Texas is the problem why would those 3 teams want to leave with them? It seems to me the Big East dying is just what was needed to save the Big 12. Notre Dame would be better off in a 12 team Big 12 than a 16 team Big 10. BYU and either Cincinnati or Louisville would add new markets and be good in basketball as well.

Steve Hillyer 8 years, 2 months ago

Just speculating or probably more likely wishful thinking, but I wonder if including Tech is a sticking point, Pac ? members aren't too thrilled with Tech being included for the same reason ACC wasn't, bad academics. And more thing, anyone who thinks the Big 12 is not yet dead is not dealing in reality, talk about being in denial, hopefully KU administrators are not in this group.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

Your last comment is exactly what I have been concerned about .. that Zenger has his head in the sand and is of the belief that the Big 12 can survive.

Of course it can survive, but it will not be a top conference. That's the point. And that will hurt KU basketball. Which is all that matters.

Angus0199 8 years, 2 months ago

I know I'm going to get blasted but here is the scoop as I've been told. B1G waiting to see what happens w/the B12...Not going to tip their hat. If the B12 emplodes, KU and KSU have spots. Why? Research and local. Been told by a Fed that directs the transition between Plum Island and NBAF that the B1G would take KSU and the $1 bill that goes w/them. The State & Fed knows this and won't let the two seperate and the State will intervene if any other scenario should happen. Another spot is always open to ND and the other will be decided between MU or ISU depending on what should happen.

I know Pac or Bust doesn't like this, but it will be a Bust. The B1G has been in contact w/KSU and there is already a plan in place to satisfy the acedemics over a period and the arangement that we go w/them. It's either ND, MU, or ISU that's going too. I understand that it isn't so, until it happens, but just want you to know that you heard it here first. Freakin' Awsome, but I do hope the B12 stays.

royaljayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Very interesting information.. B1G is certainly the best fit for KU for a number of reasons. Hope it happens.. I would like the ACC too, but the B1G is such a great fit geographically and if our rivals were there too, it would be incredible!! Here's hoping!

phoggedin 8 years, 2 months ago

Interesting stuff, Angus. I find it hard to believe that KSU gets in ahead of MU. I think both MU and ND are ahead of both the Jayhawks and the Wildcats on the list.

But if we join the Big 10 with KSU, MU, and ND, that's pretty much the best of all possible worlds at this point.

Angus0199 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't think it's a matter of KU or State getting in b4 MU as much as MU having options and $ and research being a good fit. It's a great fit if or when the B12 explodes. BTW, been drug free for 5 years now. lol

TXBBall55 8 years, 2 months ago

NO WAY in a million years does KSU get into Big 10. GET OFF THE drugs. It may be that KSU keeps KU out, but then we should pursue ever legal avenue for ruining the Regents.

lothario64118 8 years, 2 months ago

dang, i forgot about that federal project out in Manahattan with KSU.it's a damn big deal too. yeah, i'd say that would go along way. KSU can get to AAU.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

It would be excellent, a family reunion, to have NU, KU, KSU, and MU in a pod. And if ND doesn't come, maybe ISU in the Big 10 too.

JayDocMD 8 years, 2 months ago

Someone stick a microphone in Bill Self's face. I need him to tell me everything's going to be OK.

Stephan123 8 years, 2 months ago

The Big 12 may actually live on but with a host of new members that pales in comparison to the deceased conference we took for granted.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

Don't forget Clinton's boy Ken Starr. Lawsuit!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cancellation of the Fox contract means lots of $$$ for the remaining members and avoids the penalties. Hold your guns take the offer (if available) after OU & UT make the commit.

ejlumus 8 years, 2 months ago

If KU, KSU & MU receive less $$ in the B1G from a structural fee agreement share of the lawsuit actual damages would be the difference in $$$ for B1g vs B12 contract thru 2016. May even be some punitive damages as well.

Kevin Heath 8 years, 2 months ago

All I have to say is this...agree or disagree, up to you. I will be exceptionally disappointed....no, worse than that, but I can't say it in a public forum...if the next thing we hear from SZ goes anything like this, "We are following the situation very closely, and our hope is still to maintain the continuation of the Big XII Conference." At least have the nerve to say, "We are following the situation closely and are aggressively exploring options should the Big XII conference fall in this process."

If all those schools leave then staying a part of the Big XII, no matter who the conference gets, just says nobody wanted us. Joining the remnants of the Big East is not any better. We might as well join with more regional schools in a conference with less travel.

What I can tell you about about the NCAA is this. I was on the Athletic Board at a very good basketball "mid-major" a few years back. All the power with the NCAA is with the football schools. The voting is all arranged so schools with the most scholarships offered receive the most voting power. In other words, a school with 200 scholarships gets 200 votes while a school with 20 scholarships gets 20 votes. That is an oversimplification, but that is the general idea. These conferences are forming in such a way that all the money/power/votes are uniting as one. There is nothing demanding a university be a member of the NCAA. If the NCAA tries to step in here and stop this there is the risk these schools could all leave the NCAA and form their own governing body. If that happens, the NCAA is done as an organization. The NCAA allows the BCS and these schools to do what they want in football because the NCAA is funded by the mens' basketball tournament. By letting the conferences and universities run the show for football, the NCAA gets basketball. The NCAA bows to these big football schools. The rules are the way they are because these places say "The rules are going to be like x,y,z or we are leaving the organization." The NCAA is powerless here...truly powerless. Believe me, I've been in on these meetings and I've reviewed the rules. The fact that all the big time football schools are coming closer and closer together is not good for college athletics as a whole.

I wish I had some great insight to share with people...just as I wish you all had some to share with me. My gut feeling here is that we are done. We struck out and I'm not even sure we ever made it to the plate...

...hope I'm wrong

phoggedin 8 years, 2 months ago

Totally agreed on the next comments from SZ. We need some reassurance that the university leadership is actively pursuing all options.

Agreed, too, about this being bad for college athletics as a whole. The notion of student-athletes or of travel that benefits non-revenue sports or of the athletic department actually being a meaningful contributor to (not just money maker for) the university -- all are taking a beating in this.

Josh Galler 8 years, 2 months ago

If we merge with the Big East castoffs We will be lucky to get our Fox deal for our Tier one in 3 years

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

Why can i not see the comment section?

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

One of the funniest replies I can recall. Good show.

LogicMan 8 years, 2 months ago

We're crashing it with all our comments and refreshes. The Lawrence Journal World Co. doesn't have the biggest server or bandwidth, you know.

We should all try to get some sleep. Tomorrow and Tuesday will be trying days.

JayHawk_from_SWKS 8 years, 2 months ago

According to this, the OU/OSU move to the PAC 12 is mostly done and will be announced tomorrow. It also sounds like Texas is scrambling to get a deal done to join up as well, but the PAC 12 is playing a lot of hardball. With two additional teams on board, I'm sure it is easier for the PAC 12 to apply a lot more leverage.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/855262-oklahoma-sooners-ou-osu-will-be-joining-pac-conference-tomorrow

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

The latest seems to suggest that Tait's 7:19 report is pre-mature. It looks like the Big10 four-some is still a more than strong go for the PAC12. http://www.statesman.com/sports/longhorns/sources-plan-could-bring-ut-three-others-from-1865834.html

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

The latest Austin Stateman report is posted at 7:43 pm Pacific Time. It's about half an hour later than Tait's.

Justin Lindsley 8 years, 2 months ago

Go read Seth Davis article on CNNSI.com. It is quite depressing. He doesn't know any more than any one else, but he certainly feels the way most of us do. KU might get left out in the cold.

Lew may not know all the details this go around, but he has been around the block. Sounds like the "gridiron club" might have been a life saver. If he is telling the truth that no one offered KU a home last year.... Why would they this year??? Scary thought. The B1G is probably not interested in 50,000 seat stadium. KU doesn't have time or money to add 20,0000 seats. I hope the train didn't leave the station.

Steve Hillyer 8 years, 2 months ago

Then the Big Ten isn't interested in Minn or Indiana as they only have 50,000 seat stadiums. Purdue, Illinios and N'Western have 60,000, I can't imagine 10,000 seats are that big of a deal but maybe I'm wrong. Would I like to have a bigger stadium that is actually full, hell yes, what it be more helpful no question, but not everyone in a BCS conference has 90,000 seat stadiums.

Kristen Downing 8 years, 2 months ago

Sheeesh, I was looking for updates. Oh, that's right, you guys are in bed. Just like OU, OKState, UT and TxTech fans will be too...Good luck with that. I see contributions to the athletic dept.(except for T Bone)slowing down.

Pitthawk34 8 years, 2 months ago

I am still trying to figure out this whole KU/Texas link that has been reported here. Looks like pretty bad info.

Kristen Downing 8 years, 2 months ago

Oh, by the way, while you guys are asleep (or partying) this is the latest from ESPN. It is only 8:45 here. This is how UT, Tx Tech, OU an OKState should expect to see their games, the next day, recorded. Even Matt has to sleep. It's not over yet. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6989288/pac-12-working-deal-texas-oklahoma-oklahoma-state-texas-tech-according-source

DallasJayhawk1 8 years, 2 months ago

Monday, Sept 19th = D-Day. I was extremely doubtful that Pac-12 would take UT with their TV deal but from the latest reports UT is willing to make concessions on it with Pac schools. And I'm 100% sure Tech will be going as the 4th school unless Gale Sayers, Bill Self, John Riggins, Paul Pierce, Mario Chalmers and Wilt Chamberlin (from his grave) all get on a conference call together with Pac-12 tomorrow morning begging for us instead of Tech. Looks like we will just need to see what ACC and Big10 have to say if anything. I do not think we need to go down the road of Big East if that offer comes---no way we do that.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Get ready to put your waders on. I'm guessing that there is more than a puncher's chance that tomorrow Dodds, I mean Beebe will unveil an 11th hour 59 minute plan to save the B12, which will mean more concessions to UT. The reason: UT will never be as powerful in the P16 as it is now. CA's population is roughly TX+OK+MO+KS. Most CAers think of TX the way Mrs. Drysdale thought of the Clampetts. And UT deep down knows this. I can't say what CA thinks of OSU and TT, b/c the majority do not even know they exist.

What may have also helped the BTX along is WVa's reported application to the SEC. As long as MU was slotted to become the 14th team, MU had a shot at blowing up the conference on its own terms. If that opportunity has passed - even for the time being - UT has more leverage.

I would also not be surprised if Dodds called his old protoge Swarbrick at ND and told him to put out the message that ND was staying put, with the knowledge that this would put B1G expansion on hold. Thus, MU and maybe even KU would be deprived of an escape hatch.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I won't be surprised if it did.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Latest report: Obstacles remain for P16 superconference. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/sports/ncaafootball/19pac12.html

The article also mentions the P12 presidents are concerned about the academic reputations of OU, OSU, and TT. Again, Cal and Stanford don't even like being in the same country as OK and TX, these places have nothing in common with TT, OSU, and OU. UT is different b/c of the whole "Keep Austin Weird" vibe.

I have always had trouble reconciling how the P12 was going to crap all over its brand by admitting the TX/OK schools. The P12 is about showcasing sun-drenched stadiums in LA, the Bay Area, and AZ in a late game in Nov. after the rest of the country is shown to be experiencing something called winter. Now it will be like having the Rose Parade in Lubbock. Good grief.

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

The problem with the PAC is that Larry Scott seems to be one of the least concerned about convention and perhaps the most savvy when it comes to business. Why did the SEC want TAMU? Now that is a tricky one. It is so the SEC could recruit better in Texas and continue to be the NFL farm schools. They will be even more dominating. The PAC wants UT for the same reason. It's member schools will overlook a lot to get that Texas talent. Of course adding the Texas TV markets isn't a bad deal either. Scott strikes me as the guy to bend and get creative to find a win/win and that he holds sway and power in the conference. That's my take. We are locked out of the PAC. Course you can forget the ACC now. Its the Big or say hello Mountain West.

pepper_bar 8 years, 2 months ago

Great link. Unsurprising that the majority of Pac 12 presidents are against expansion. I'd be stunned if they took Oklahoma, let alone the burnt orange cancer or their respective tag-alongs.

Randy Bombardier 8 years, 2 months ago

I am brushing up my Avitar to make it worthy of the Big 10.

AZHawk72 8 years, 2 months ago

By Tuesday morning we should have a clearer understanding that our future rests in a revamped Big 12 with the Wildcats, Cyclones, Bears and us--along with a "greatest hits" collection (with a lean toward regionalism) from the Big East, Conference USA, and the Mountain West. I wouldn't schedule any of the departees for at least ten years, with a possible exception being Missouri, which I'd avoid for at least five years.

While I hate to see the destuction of century-old rivalries, those who leave have chosen dollars over tradition. So, good-bye. Now we know how SMU, TCU, Rice, and Houston felt. Like a rotten marriage, let's hope we only have to go through this once.

PacXman 8 years, 2 months ago

Latest reporting from Austin (11:11pm): include Texas Tech. The article states the following: “Texas would add Texas Tech in its network and include some Pac-16 content in the LHN programming. The network would probably carry the Pac-16 name.”

http://www.statesman.com/sports/longhorns/sources-plan-could-bring-ut-three-others-from-1865834.html?cxtype=rss_longhorns

Joseph Kuebel 8 years, 2 months ago

Great. Were stuck in the big least and their BCS AQ bid is about to get stripped like clothes off a hooker.

royaljayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

No we aren't, unless you have some insight that the rest of us don't.

Ted Adams 8 years, 2 months ago

All I can say is GET READY FOR THE LAWSUITS! They are going to fly, and they are going to fly with a vengeance. Most will have LOTS of merit. Those teams leaving for what they think are greener pastures are going to get to fork over the money in large quantities to those they left behind. The damages are actually endless to whomever is left in the Big XII. Whether OU stays or goes, whether UT stays or goes, the windfall is going to be big REAL BIG for those that are left.

Before you call me an idiot, there is precedence for this only a few years ago when the ACC raided the Big East to go to 12 teams. The lawsuits came and the rest of the Big East teams won big. The definition of "big" in this case is infinitely bigger and is absolutely backed up by the TV deals that athletic budgets depend on, especially in the big 6 conferences.

Teams may continue to move, but they aren't going to walk away without paying big $$$ for leaving, and the lawsuits will likely be a lot more than that.

It's about to get really crazy and stupid

Laurence Cooley 8 years, 2 months ago

http://twitter.com/#!/wilnerhotline

this guy is saying that the pac is considering missouri instead of texas (i am assuming over the longhorn network) and they already didnt want tech, so that leaves another spot open.

just sayin...it might not mean anything.

Kman_blue 8 years, 2 months ago

Matt, so what's the updated wheel of probability look like now?

Mine right now.

SOL - 50% Big leftovers - 35% Big ten - 8% PAC - 5% Big 12 - 2%

joshar 8 years, 2 months ago

I really wish we would get proactive and start hunting for conferences. Start looking and showing other conferences that we are interested rather sitting back and see where we fall. Be like Syracuse and Pitt and surprise everyone.

nckujayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

How do you know KU hasn't tried to be more proactive?

nckujayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Ahh yes, the good old "assume they aren't doing stuff without a shred of evidence" method.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 8 years, 2 months ago

KU needs to find a new conference where they have a chance of winning a few games. I am sure there are some high school conferences in Idaho or Montana that would welcome the nameless Jayhawks to their league.

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