Kansas defeats Colorado, 72-66

  • 8 p.m., Feb. 3, 2010
  • Coors Events Conference Center, Boulder, CO

Thursday, February 4, 2010

Rocky Mountain sigh

KU wins despite FT woes

Colorado forward Marcus Relphorde fouls Kansas forward Marcus Morris during the second half Wednesday, Feb. 3, 2010 at the Coors Event Center in Boulder.

Colorado forward Marcus Relphorde fouls Kansas forward Marcus Morris during the second half Wednesday, Feb. 3, 2010 at the Coors Event Center in Boulder.


Reader poll

Who was KU's best player against Colorado?

  • Cole Aldrich 65% 1499 votes
  • Brady Morningstar 9% 230 votes
  • Marcus Morris 23% 543 votes
  • Other 1% 31 votes

2303 total votes.

Audio clips

2010 Kansas at Colorado

GameDay Cram Session: Colorado online editor Jesse Newell and Journal-World sports editor Tom Keegan take a look at what to expect from the Kansas basketball team's matchup against Colorado.

Reader poll

Which ESPN color announcer do you like better?

  • Bob Knight 66% 114 votes
  • Bill Raftery 25% 43 votes
  • Undecided 8% 14 votes

171 total votes.

— Sherron Collins pinpointed the reason for Kansas University’s abysmal free-throw shooting late Wednesday night in Coors Events Center.

“It HAD to be the altitude,” Collins said after the No. 1-ranked Jayhawks went just 18-of-38 from the line in a tense, 72-66 overtime victory over the .500 Buffs.

Of course, he was kidding, folks.

Collins, who actually had a decent 4-of-6 free-throw outing on a night he missed 11 of 17 floor shots and all five three-point tries, was baffled that a team that had hit 72.6 percent of its charities in Big 12 games could fare so poorly in Mile High Country.

“Tomorrow I guarantee you we will shoot over 150 free throws,” Collins said.

The lousy free throwing — KU was 14-of-30 in regulation — and inability to demoralize the Buffs after bolting to a 24-8 lead had Collins feeling mighty fortunate following CU’s last possession of the second half.

Cory Higgins (14 points, 4-of-15 shooting) had the ball in his hands with 10.6 seconds to play and 8 on the shot clock in a tie game.

Higgins hoisted a deep three with about five ticks left. That shot, after missing the mark, turned the ball over to KU with two seconds to play. The Jayhawks weren’t able to bust the tie, but were able at least to take the game into OT.

“I was just praying it didn’t go in. I think the altitude took that one, too far, too,” Collins said with a smile.

Seriously, folks, Collins said Marcus Morris (15 points, eight boards; six points, seven boards in OT) played tight defense on Higgins on the play.

“Marcus was right on him,” Collins said.

Morris accepted the credit modestly.

“Higgins is a great player,” Morris said. “I thought he was going to drive it, so I gave him a little space. When I saw he was going to shoot, I got a hand up. I think he was three or four feet behind the line. If he hits it from there ...” Morris added, not completing the thought, wincing at the idea of losing on such a deep attempt.

Morris was a force in overtime, scoring half of KU’s 12 points as the Jayhawks won the five-minute session, 12-6.

His driving layup, which followed an eight-footer by Brady Morningstar and free throw by Cole Aldrich, gave KU a 65-60 lead with 3:13 left.

After a Morningstar steal of an ill-advised Higgins pass, Morris grabbed a rebound of a Morningstar miss. He missed an inside shot and grabbed the board, missed again and grabbed the board, then converted as KU led, 67-60, at 2:41.

“Marcus made the play of the game, the best basketball play of the game,” KU coach Bill Self said. “The guy goes after his own ball three or four times.”

The Buffs, who were playing without freshman sensation Alec Burks (knee injury), cut that gap to 67-64 with 1:52 left in OT, meaning KU still had some work to do.

Collins hit a driving layup, but missed a free throw, and Morningstar made one of two charities at :34 to give KU a 70-64 lead. Higgins made two charities at :27.1 to slice it to four points. But Morris finally swished a pair of free throws at :26, which accounted for the final scoring of the game.

“We’ll look back on this as a game where we made it hard on ourselves (because of free-throw woes), but as a good win,” Self said.

“It was contagious,” Self added of the poor charity work. “We weren’t even close. We almost had two airballs the first half. We had numerous chances to put it away from the free-throw line, but couldn’t, obviously. I don’t know how that happens, but it’s something we’ll address in a short period of time.”

Cole Aldrich scored 16 points and had 14 boards, while Collins also had 16 off 6-of-17 shooting with five assists and three turnovers. Morris had 15 points. Marcus Relphorde led the Buffs (11-11, 2-6) with 18 points.

KU will meet Nebraska at 5 p.m. Saturday in Allen Fieldhouse.


Brett Glover 10 years, 9 months ago

I don't think we'll have the same trouble with UNL, that ought to be a cake walk.

lv_jhwk 10 years, 9 months ago

Wow, nearly had all the ingredients for a colossal games letdown, easy large lead early on, lack of focus on charities.

Guess now its just which color of glasses you want to wear...the color that lets you see a game with situations that can only allow the team to progress further, or the other pair that views very little but tendencies that will lead to an early exit come tournament time.

actorman 10 years, 9 months ago

I'm guessing I wasn't the only one that was thinking Syracuse, '03 title game. It was like slow torture, fortunately in a much less important situation and with a much better result. But I wasn't bothered as much by the FT shooting as I was by the number of stupid turnovers late in the game. All in all, an ugly win but still a win. I look forward to the usual smashing of NU on Saturday, as KU ties its second longest home winning streak of 55.

kellyrojo78 10 years, 9 months ago

Altitude or attitude, KU justlooked flat out exhausted, especially Cole45. I think it was altitude. Anyway, you have to get used to this now with the 1# on your back. Everybody will bring their best. Notice Self playd a long stretch at the end there with Reed and Morningstar in at the same time (x and TT out). He really seems to be losing faith in X. Who can blame him? Overall a poor performance (especially at the stripe), but these are the kind of games that you have to learn towin to win in Smarch!

ParisHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Hm, three games in six days and exhausted during the first one. Not only that, but the third game is at Texas. Hm.

Jeff Schartz 10 years, 9 months ago

Anybody remember the Oklahoma State game two years ago? This was just like that, except we came out on top this time.

ParisHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

This is for jaybate. On another thread, I mentioned that according to Colorado doesn't hold the ball any longer than the average NCAA team. I looked up 15 other teams known for the Princeton offense, and Colorado plays a faster tempo than all of them. Colorado is also the only "Princeton" team that has a tempo faster than the NCAA average, and just barely.

So you were right in general, Colorado is the lone exception.

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

the free throw line was just attrocious. 'Kieff was god awful. If you literally can't make a free throw what good are you. teams will just foul you and take the ball after you miss them both.

3GJayhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

That was tough to watch toward the end of regulation. It seemed like they were really feeling the pressure in the last 2 minutes. I had a good feeling once it went OT. We need X to get back on track and to do it soon!! He's not a scoring threat at all right now and we will need that option to win some of the remaining games.

swense 10 years, 9 months ago

I agree X needs to start being a factor or else he most certainly will be geting the Pine Wood treatment, which is not fun for as good a prospect as he is or was!!!!

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

There was one obvious storyling from this game. Tyshawn Taylor and X were on the bench in crunchtime through overtime.

Some have continued to post that because Self play Taylor, it must be the best decision. Now what do you say? It is obvious Self has lost faith in Taylor in those situations, and justifiably so .. see Taylor's most recent gaffes vs. K-State in crunchtime. And X is just not playing .. don't know whether it's effort, or what.

The fact is, we had Morningstar and Reed in with the game on the line. I, for one. think that this is a recipe for disaster vs. a top 10 team. We have two guys on the floor who can't make a play on their own, most of the time. But putting the faith in Taylor throughout this season has gotten us to this point, how can we get out of it?

Timmay97 10 years, 9 months ago

Here's my assessment of last night:

1) Xavier has not gotten accustomed to Big 12 play. It's easy to score non-chalantly when you're playing scrub teams early in the season, but not in Big 12 play. As far as I'm concerned, he's the opposite of Brandon Rush....he can't go right.

2) This might sound awful, but Tyshawn might be the dumbest college basketball player ever. He's so predictable. Between him and Xavier, they scare the crap out of me when the ball is in their hands. I hate that feeling.

3) The improvement of Marcus is absolutely unreal. That kid has an eye for the basket unlike any other Jayhawk right now. He WILL be an NBA player when he's gone from KU

4) Without Cole in the middle, this team has 3 or 4 loses. His defense alone helps this team immensely. But now he's scoring, which is only going to make this team that much harder to beat.

5) Morningstar is post feeder by far on the team. Even his turnovers aren't that drastic to me (unlike Taylor's). I love a kid that knows his role.

As much as I want to beat Texas, KU can afford a loss on that game. I'm hoping the home game against Nebraska will give our studs the rest they deserve (Aldrich, Collins, Morningstar). Blow them out, puhleeeeeeeze!

Studogg 10 years, 9 months ago

Kinda saw this coming. Classic trap game. Still, there was no excuse for what happened last night. Btw, what in the world has happened to X?

Chris Shaw 10 years, 9 months ago

General: Surprisingly, I never lost my cool throughout this entire game. I don't know if it was because we were playing "Colorado", but I just never had that feeling that KU was going to lose. Even with Colorado in possession for the final shot of regulation, I just felt KU was going to come up with a defensive stop to put the game into OT.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the three main things that caused KU problems tonight. Before I get to those three things, I want to give a big "Congrats" to Colorado and Coach Bzdelik. I've said all year long that this was not a Colorado team of year's past and whomever goes into Boulder this year better be prepared for a great game. Most will say Colorado is still the "Colorado" of old, but Coach Bzdelik has changed the culture and is continuing to change the culture at Colorado. Congrats on a great game Colorado. Here are the 3 things that I think caused KU problems tonight.

1) Free Throws-I mean, I'm not coming up with anything that anybody else didn't notice tonight. Free Throws were the biggest story tonight. I thought after the 6-15 perfromance in the first half that it would get a little bit better, but it was about the same in the second half as they shot 12-23 for an overall game total of 18-38. Ouch! What are you going to do? It completely reminded me of the 2003 NCAA Championship, but there isn't much you can do when the ball just isn't "Falling". I do have to admit that even though I was calm tonight by demeanor and language was quite different in 2003. LOL! All you can do is keep fighting your way through it and I think the Jayhawks fighting their way to a win showed their resilence.

2) Altitude-I never thought I would use altitude as an excuse, but it was clearly a factor tonight while playing Colorado. It's a factor every year when KU travels to boulder and it's a factor when any team outside of the Rocky Mountain region visits the State of Colorado. That is why Colorado has such a great home court advantage and now that they are improving their caliber of players it will only help them in the future. It was pretty obvious the KU players were completely "Sucking Wind", but at the same time it was kind of nice to see the Jayhawk players fight through their fatigue and still try to compete at the highest level. Job Well done IMO!

Chris Shaw 10 years, 9 months ago

3)Princeton Offense: This type of offense is what scares me come NCAA Tourney time. Colorado runs a very efficent offense and when Bzdelik can get a few more athletes into his program "Lookout". The timing, precision of cuts, execution, and overall ball movement is like clockwork and when run perfectly it is a beautiful offense to watch. Georgetown is running it very well this season so if you all get a chance to watch a more athletic team run that offense than you'll see what I mean.

I thought KU for the most part defended quite well against all the movement and screens away from the ball. KU got caught in the first half and the first two possessions of the second half by helping on the drive and not staying with their man on the kickout beyond the perimeter. I thought as the game progressed though KU recogninzed that this was really the Buff's only option on offense. However, credit Colorado for competing and not giving up in the first half.

Offense: Overall, I thought KU ran their offense quite effectively tonight. Yes, there were some boneheaded plays especially late in the game with guys trying to feed Aldrich and leading him too much, but the idea was there and it was open. I can live with that because you could clearly tell that fatigue was a big factor tonight with some of the decision making and lazy passes. You can absolutely not fault the "Effort" of KU tonight on the offensive or defensive end because for the most part I thought it was pretty good for 45 minutes.

The one thing that surprised me tonight was how well KU ran their zone offense for the first 9 minutes of the game and how long it took KU to get rolling once Colorado went man to man about the 11 minute mark. Nonetheless, KU just wasn't hitting their shots and you could tell everyone's legs throughout the game were "Jello-Like".

Defense: I pretty much said it all under the Princeton Offense section from above. I thought KU played great defensively tonight for the most part. Like I said above, once KU figured out not to leave the perimeter players and not to help on the drive they were okay.

For once, I am not going to have individual sections on players. I thought everybody on the team played with great effort tonight. That is first and foremost one of things I always look for during the game. I also thought KU ran their offense very effectively tonight, but just couldn't hit shots from the perimeter (that could have something to do with the altitude). I thought Aldrich played great and was a man possessed despite all of his sweat and heavy breathing. I felt bad for the guy consistently grasping for air, but his effort was a direct result of the "Fight" everybody else showed during their stretches of tiredness which was great to see and watch. I loved it! How about that block at the end of the first half? That was pretty sweet.

klineisanazi 10 years, 9 months ago

Setting FTs aside as especially horrid and uncharacteristic, I see two things that are weaknesses that could hurt this team in its push to win a national championship.
First is rebounding. Colorado is a horrible rebounding team, and yet KU only out rebounded them because of the extra inning. Second is turnovers in crucial, late game situations. KU has gotten away with it in the last two games. Now Brady has caught what Taylor has, and that is not a good sign. KU has enough talent it can overcome a lot of mistakes. But they will play teams that will make them pay and end their season in March if they don't cut it out.

Michael Leiker 10 years, 9 months ago

Anomaly game from the free thrown line, beyond that they played very well. If KU would have lost you could just say to throw that one out and it doesn't matter. W is a W.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 9 months ago

Concern: I will say that there is one very big concern I have and it has to do with Xavier Henry. Bill Rafterty hit it perfectly when he said that Xavier is going to have to find his game in order to give the Jayhawk's that extra needed element to perform well in the dance. I think people keep thinking that X is going to magically turn on his game, but I just don't see it. This is the second straight game of limited minutes from Self directly towards X. I am really worried that KU could become quite exploited at the 3 if X doesn't change his game or just simply step up his "Fire" to another level. The competition is only going to get better and if he's not ready for that challenge than he should have never even been mentioned as OAD.

Again, I am being hard on the kid, but he was and is suppose to be KU's missing ingredient this year and I have to say that I have been disappointed in his game in big stretches of this season thus far. It's "Tough Love", but it's on him and on him only to decide which path he wants to go down in order to make this Jayhawk team better. He may never get this opportunity again in his lifetime so take advantage of it now. I know in the first half he missed a long 3 and didn't sprint back on "D" and his man scored on a break away lay-up. Those are plays that are teaching opportunities, but we're 22 games into the season now and he should be playing like a sophomore or better yet a lottery pick for the NBA.

It may sound that I am being critical of Xavier, but it's a concern and nothing else. You can see the overall raw talent with X, but I think it's going to take longer for him to development his overall game than we all anticipated. All I know, is that the Jayhawks and future of this team in the Big Dance is going to rely on the success or non-success of X and I want this kid to succeed more than ever because teams like this don't come around every year. He's in a rut right now, and I really want to see how is going to handle all of this the rest of the season. As I said, the team is really starting to come together IMO, but for the Jayhawks to do well and cut down the nets in April he's going to have to find another way to "Impact" the game. He is obviously not shooting well right now so he's got to find a way to get involved, create, and make a statement during the game even if he isn't scoring at the moment.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 9 months ago


Aldrich played fantastic and deserved the MVP of the game for his effort and desire to win with another double-double

Collins just didn't have it tonight from the perimeter, but it looked like his legs were dead tonight. Made a few bad decisions which made me groan and I haven't groaned in a long time over Collins play. No matter, he made up for it at the end of the game and in OT.

I think Taylor is getting a lot better, but I don't know what Taylor was thinking with just over two minutes in regulation on that 1 on 3 missed lay-up. Bad decision making on that play, but Taylor had a very consistent night other than that IMO.

Conclusion: I know most will feel that this was a lackluster performance and that KU should have won by a lot more tonight against Colorado, but Colorado's princeton offense is very hard to defend and Colorado ever since the Maui Invitational has proven that were not going to roll over against teams this year. They are young and they are only going to get better so instead of bashing KU credit Colorado for a very well played game as I thought KU would win by 10 or fewer inititally anyway.

I am very pleased with this win against Colorado because it showed the "Fight" that this team has to make a run a March. It was just one of those moments in the season that you could possibly look back on and i can honestly say that the team came together quite well during the Colorado game. Obviously, things were not going well for the Jayhawks at the charity stripe or some other components of the game, but you could see all the players encouraging one another and giving words of advice which is what great teams do. They find a way to win when adversity faces them and they overcome those 3 problematic areas that I listed above. Overall, great win IMHO by the Jayhawks over a much improved Colorado team.

tis4tim 10 years, 9 months ago

Our depth does seem to be getting more and more shallow as the days wear on. Maybe Self should go with a 3-man rotation from here on out: Mc Morris, Sherron, and Morningstar. The other guys just keep getting in the way of themselves.

A few games ago we had about 7,258 more turnovers than Mizzou and won. Last night, we missed 20 free throws and won. I keep telling myself that overcoming things like that is the sign of a good team. But, shouldn't a good team also be able to avoid those situations?

tis4tim 10 years, 9 months ago

Um, make that a four man rotation. Cole has been a monster over the last few games. I guess he deserves a spot too. Jeez, there goes my credibility right out the

ppierce 10 years, 9 months ago

Will SOMEBODY please write a story, ask Bill Self, or even make mention of the 800lb gorilla in the room that is Xavier Henry's horrific play? He has to be injured. This is waaaaay more then a stupid slump at this point.

ParisHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

tis4tim, I haven't seen the Colorado game yet but I would add Reed to make 5, in fact I already did the other day. Add Markieff and Taylor who are capable of doing what we need them to do; they could turn it around any time.

OAD + MIA = title hopes DOA

bradynsdad 10 years, 9 months ago

i think this game was great. just like the kstate, cornell, and baylor games. we handle plenty of people easily but these are the games that teach you to win in march. noone in the country will dominate in march but to keep winning these close ones builds young mens confidence, and they will know how to react when a game comes down to the wire. 100 to 10 or 2 to 1 a win is a win

Joe Baker 10 years, 9 months ago

kushaw- I completely agree with your take aways. FTs and altitude was an interesting factor. I don't want to make excuses at all, but they were spent early last night.

It would be interesting to see another top 10 team outside the B12 go into Boulder. I know Gonzaga won 76-72. Arizona isn't top 10 but they went in early won 91-87. I would like to see more specifically the orange boys of cuse and the tykes of uk go to Boulder and play the Buffs. I'm convinced they would struggle and possibly lose.

Cole was a beast! A 6-11 big man was sprinting and blocking shots is incredible. Even CU was flushed and grabbing jerseys to show their fatigue. I think most big men would collapse: ie. Cousins or Johnson. LOL Don't forget, CU practices in that crap everyday.

It was a tough one, but a "W" all the same!

Kye Clark 10 years, 9 months ago

For the most part I'm going to try and ignore the way this game played out and consider it an abherration. I would like to point out how skewed the perception is between Brady and Tyshawn. Looking at the comments you'd think Tyshawn deserves to be playing at a community college and Brady was a first team all-american (not just this article, but in general). The drive & shot Tyshawn took towards the end of regulation has led to much criticism. Yet he was 2-4 overall from the field, while Brady was 2-5 including an airball. They both were credited with one turnover, although I remember Brady having two. One time on a 2 on 1 fast break he threw it right to the opposing player (which if I remember right was only a couple of minutes before Tyshawn's ill-advised shot), and on another play his post feed led Aldrich way too far and it went out of bounds. Maybe Cole was credited with the turnover since he somehow managed to get his fingertips on it, but the announcers were even commenting on how Brady went up to Cole and said "my fault". This was the second turnover in a row of the sort, as Collins had also thrown a horrible entry pass the possession before. I'm not saying that Tyshawn played a game greater than or equal to Brady, Brady did some other things that seperate his performance last night, just trying to put Tyshawn's performance into context, pointing out that some of his mistakes aren't as bad as maybe some people think. Just seems that some posters still harbor a dislike for the kid because of some of his off the court knuckleheaded actions (which Brady has one of those of his own. Again, context).

Chris Shaw 10 years, 9 months ago

Bradynsdad: I agree with you. People are focusing too much on Colorado being well "Colorado" that they view it as a terrible win. People are searching for a way to justify the problem on how Colorado almost pulled out a victory against the Jayhawks. Actually, there is no problem and Colorado is just that much improved.

They have lost 7 of their 11 games (2 in OT) by 7 points or less. That is a sign of a young and improving team. The National Media will try to portray this win in a negative light, but I thought this was a great win for KU. I thought this was a bigger win than ISU or Nebraska on the road.

Vic Janeway 10 years, 9 months ago

Brady, for g__s sake young man, dont be afraid to shoot, thats why teams are spoiling your good assist attempts, they know u will pass before you shoot. start shooting more and change that!

Justin Kruse 10 years, 9 months ago

What was up with the "overrated" chant last night? I know we didn't play like the #1 team in the county, but seriously, you guys lost! That's just going to add some fuel to the fire when they come to Allen!

Michael Leiker 10 years, 9 months ago

ppierce - he's not injured he's just the reincarnation of kareem rush

Chris Shaw 10 years, 9 months ago

truehawk: I completely agree with you, I would also like to see other teams go into boulder and compete. Like another article stated, you can not prepare for the altitude during a basketball game. I remember going out to Aspen in High School two years in a row for some basketball academies (RC Buford was a coach/counselor for the camp) and I always remember "Sucking Wind" those first couple of days in games. It's weird and I don't know how else to explain it, but your legs do feel "Jello-Like". I'll tell ya, it's one heck of a home court advantage and Colorado is going to start taking advantage of it here in the upcoming seasons. I really feel they are on the right track for success.

It was also good seeing Steve McClain (Former Hutch JUCO Coach as I use to attend his camp every year) on the sideline. He has the most intense face and facial expressions next to Frank Martin in College Basketball. Coach McClain is a heck of a coach and between him and Coach Bzdelik, they have a staff that is on the edge of a success.

Michael Leiker 10 years, 9 months ago

It's really too bad that he is as bad as he is because he's a huge detriment to this team. That guy maybe got 10% of the 50/50 balls that he could have gotten in the KSU game. He's just an 18 year old kid right now, or however old he is. He has one move, is afraid of contact and thus pump fakes way too much and hesitates, takes forever to get his shot off, swings into his shot which makes him easy to defend, can't dribble with his right hand, telegraphs every pass he makes, reaches and doesn't move his feet on defense, doesn't seem to take things too seriously, is sloppy with the can go on and on.

The storm needs to come for Henry so he can hurry up and get over the hump, only way to get there is for him to go through some serious adversity. Maybe Bill's already bringing it on him behind closed doors, but if he's not he might be past the point of the season where you can do that and not have it hurt the team, might just have to ride it out at this point and hope he gets in foul trouble early in important games.

KU 10 years, 9 months ago

truehawk........I agree that UT would have difficulty in Boulder. Heck, they gave up around 90 to Colorado in Austin! And UT suddenly can't score, with the exception of their freshman wing going off the other day.

On the other hand, Syracuse would not have much trouble against CU. Why? Zone defense. It negates the fancy-pants (Princeton) offense CU runs. Everyone marvels at Georgetown's fancy-pants offense, but Syracuse beat the tar out of them earlier this season.

Some will say, "Why didn't KU play zone to avoid all the back cuts and back screens and easy kick-out 3s?" My answer is that Bill Self isn't about winning "a" game. He's about moulding a team to win the "big" games. He knew he could have stifled the Princeton offense with some zone, but chose to let his guys play through all the horrible perimeter man-to-man defense to toughen them up and make them better. That, in my opinion, is what makes Bill Self one of the greatest coaches in the business.

When it's all said and done, this was a relatively easy win if we just make free throws.

bradynsdad 10 years, 9 months ago

thank you ku shaw. i would also like to thank depaul for making the last minute of that game last twenty five minutes and to the coach for calling a timeout with fourteen seconds left.

Paul Meyer 10 years, 9 months ago

Colorado's unis are flawed. Has the Buff's equipment manager ever heard of jerseys that wick properly? They were drenched. Reminded me of the Seinfeld episode when George outfits the Yankees in wool.

Weary of all the posters ripping on Freshmen and Sophomores. Div 1 N C 2 A is a huge leap from High School AAU ball. Especially in one of the most competitive conferences. Think how much Collins and Aldrich have improved since their Freshmen year. No need to hasten the process. The Morris Twins are excellent examples of the KU "program." Keep the faith in Xavier and Taylor.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 9 months ago

KU: Very good points on the princeton offense and the zone. Nice insight about Self and moulding the team. I tend to agree. I did watch that Syracuse/Gtown game and you are totally right about the zone completely eliminating the princeton offense altogether. If I remember correctly GTown jumped out to a huge lead the first 4 minutes of the game and then it was all Syracuse the rest of the way. Good Stuff!

Kye Clark 10 years, 9 months ago

KU - I agree with your point about the zone & princeton offense. If you're a team as good as we are, you try and impose your will. You play your game. And as improved a team as Colorado may be, you don't change who you are for someone at the bottom of the conference.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 9 months ago

I will be as succinct as possible:

1] Cole's chances of coming back went from 50% to 0% with that warrior-like performance last night.

2] Xavier's chance of being a legitimate OAD went from 100% to 0% last night..over-rated?

3] Head Coaches have tendencies just like athletes at crunch time..HCBS is Experience and defense

4] For the rest of the season it will be a senior, three juniors and three sophomores that will see the most PT.

5] A deep bench only counts in practice when push comes to shove.

6] X,CJ,EJ,Jeff, T-Rob..wait your turn.

7] Teahan not EJ?????

8] The most number of "ugly" foul shot misses I have ever seen..most of them not even close.

9] If I was a five star guard and saw that Brady and Tyrell were in while Tyshawn and Xavier were on the bench, I'd think twice about coming to Kansas.

10] Bottom line..we won, we won, we won!!

Mike Gammill 10 years, 9 months ago

I'm gonna go down in flames for saying this, but it needs to be said. This team lacks a killer instinct. With the score 24-8 mid way through the first half, the Jayhawks should have smelled blood. They should have buried Colorado the rest of the half, then maintained through the second half, and went home 25 point winners.

What happened instead? They let Colorado and the fans get right back into the game before the half was over, and stay close the rest of the way. Really, really good basketball teams just don't do that. It's time to give someone else a shot at No. 1 for a while and see what they do with it. But, we all know that No. 1 doesn't count until March. Right now, Kansas isn't playing to that kind of ranking.

Self has long demonstrated that he likes the half court, high-low game and scores in the 60's. All I have seen it do is make for closer-than-they-should be ball games. But, he does have a national championship to his credit. That can't be denied.

Kansas, IMHO, needs to learn to put teams away when they have them down. If they don't, they will be a sweet sixteen, or at best, an elite eight, then go home. You can't depend on out-deeping somebody or wearing them down in the second half always. It will come home to bite at the most inappropriate time, like March.

3GJayhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

X has not produced in conference play b/c these teams know how to defend him. He can only drive one direction (left) and he's lost when that gets shut down. Self will have to figure out a different way to get him involved in the offense this season. I say we give him another game or two to get it going and if he doesn't then yank the red shirt off of Little or Releford. I'd hate to see this season end in dissapointment but it likely will if we don't have another weapon emerge.

Michael Leiker 10 years, 9 months ago

Shaw - I swear in 20 years Steve McClain's eyes have not you remember having to put your hands on your knees and "maintain eye contact?"

Steve Brown 10 years, 9 months ago

X hurt his hand I recall few games ago, he kept grimacing and holding his non shooting knuckles.. maybe some pain lingers...he is not in HS anymore welcome to big time.

Two OT games in a row with W both times will help us for our goals. Could you imagine if we blew everyone away with large victories got to the dance and found ourselves in a close one handles that pressure well. This year the close or OT games will be old hat for us when it matters.

A&M beating MU is sweet. Conner in for a couple minutes confused me. When Cole is dead tired and his legs are lead, you can't lead him 4 feet with your passes to the post. He should not have been on court on long stretches when clock was stopped during the last 5 minutes. With his lung issues get him more pine time when the clock is stopped like FThrows.

Big Monday the Eyes of Texas are Upon You: Let's hope we shoot better have less turnovers and get into OT for another 'growth' experience.

UTenn Texas Syracuse have lots of orange background for our shooter's eyes. We don't game well in an orange bowl or altitude. Hope we only face 2 of these 3 this year.

Steve Brown 10 years, 9 months ago

Wonder if EJ has some incomplete grades or class issues for his non PT. Maybe it is that BM TReed are doing better with their experience, as experience trumps ability. Unless you are John Wall. )

Texas Big Monday Barnes has clear cut game plan: Doulbe/triple Cole, collaspe on Sherron when he drives and force X, Brady, TT others to hit the trey. Our patience with ball and the extra crisp pass will seal our fate or produce our best chance of success.

A W in Austin, not likely the way we are playing, is possible- would put us on the yellow brick road to our 1st goal. BIG 12 Champs & MW Regional Seed.


Kye Clark 10 years, 9 months ago

gammimc - we average 84 ppg, not sure how you can argue that Coach plays the games to keep it in the 60s. Of course we want to play the high-low, we have Cole & Marcus, an advantage for us over every other team we'll play. But KU has played one game this year where we failed to score 70 points (vs. Memphis), so that arguement doesn't really hold up.

It's easy to say KU isn't playing like the #1 team after last night's game, but what about leading up to that? We handily beat Iowa St. & Misery, then won a tough, physical game in what will be the most hostile enviroment we've played in all year. This game had all the makings of a trap game, and we avoided leaving with a loss. Syracuse struggled against Depaul, needing a furious comeback to escape with a 2 point win. Just saying it happens, and one game isn't enough to indict this team as not being the #1 (which maybe we're not, but we're atleast one of the top 3 IMO).

As for not having a killer instinct, I think you're right on that point. HCBS has even said (when drawing comparisons to the '08 team) that the championship team enjoyed making other teams look bad, while this team isn't there yet. I think one key is keeping our bigs out of foul trouble. It clearly had an effect on the KSU game, and they showed the run CU went on last night after Marcus picked up his 2nd foul early in the first half.

At any rate, I think it's a little much to be resigning this team to a sweet 16/elite 8. Even if they do get upset before the final four, this is final four caliber team.

Sweet_Sandbags 10 years, 9 months ago

As others point out, bottom line it was a W. Any W on the road in conference play is a good W. All top teams are going to go through tough games from time to time, especially on the road. Just look at Syracuse v DePaul or Kentucky v SC.

Winners find a way to win, learn from their difficulties, and progress. Let us hope KU can continue to do so. It would seem much better come tourney time to have a few tough games now even with an L or two more than to coast through the season untested with no blemishes. The 'hawks are still fine and moving solidly toward the ultimate goal.

Not to get down on the kid, but until he comes out of his slump "X" will be known as "Y" in my mind. As in "Why does he continue to start?", "Why does he just stand around?", "Why don't I miss him when he is not on the floor and even consider him a key component right now?". Let us hope he turns it around and doesn't continue this regression to a "Z"(zzzz). He will be needed in the Big Dance. C'mon Xavier!

Cole, Marcus, SC, and Brady...still getting it done. Keep it up guys...and let's please not sink to Calipari level free throw shooting anymore.


Joe Baker 10 years, 9 months ago

I'm not going to anlayze this CU game any longer. I have less hair now than during the game. There were some legitimate or obvious factors that were specific to this CU game. But we can only hope those same factors will not be so obvious against UT.

I know Texas will be so hyped, amped, geared and down right crazy in Austin. I just don't want KU to go down and get that deer in the headlight look when UT pushes it and starts drilling. If they play like they did against OSU or Hamilton goes on a streak, jeez, look out! We better have an answer.

Texas has 2-3 guys that can go ballistic at any game: James (given), Avery, Hamilton and possibly Brown. I hope they're all cold and the rim finds a lid on their offense. I'm really curious to see HCBS's plan executed against UT.

md88 10 years, 9 months ago

Blame it on the a, a a a, a altitude. Blame it on the a, a a a, a altitude.

jrbill67 10 years, 9 months ago

This team lost its compsoure at the end of the game and committed way too many unforced errors during the game. We need Sherron to take control and provide even more leadership than he already does. In addition, X has hit the wall & he needs to get over it quickly. Tyshawn needs to watch his games from last year when he played great and was very humble,. Now he plays stupid and is way too cocky. Cole, Brady, Tyrel, & Marcus are still doing the things it takes to win. The team needs to improve for the big run in March & April.

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 9 months ago

To the Brady-Tyshawn discussion, I agree that Brady should have been credited with 2 turnovers, but let's not forget he had 6 assists; I'll take that ratio.

But there's no reason to be bagging on Tyshawn either. Right now he's looking like a decent backup -- that may be just the way his sophomore season plays out, and there's no shame in that. And I don't see any reason to be alarmed that Brady and Tyrel are in there at the end instead of Tyshawn and X. As long as Cole, Sherron and Marcus keep dominating (and assuming this free throw issue is just an aberration) this team will be fine.

ppierce 10 years, 9 months ago

X "hit the wall" a month into the season. A guy in his condition is not fatigued. Thats not the Freshman wall, something else is wrong.

docileboy 10 years, 9 months ago

gammimc...Killer instinct is not the Jayhawk way, they prefer to tease teams, tricking them into thinking they might actually have a chance to win and sometimes it bites them in the you know what. If KU does get out to a big lead they take their foot off the gas so the other team can catch up.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 9 months ago

"Rocky Mountain Sigh." Nice headline and quite accurate!! It took me a long time to fall asleep but glad we escaped with a win. Remember, I said "one game at a time." Nebraska is next--not Texas. And we must get better, or we will have a Bradley/Bucknell-type exit from March Madness!

EastBayJay 10 years, 9 months ago

"i would also like to thank depaul for making the last minute of that game last twenty five minutes and to the coach for calling a timeout with fourteen seconds left."

I've come up with a saying on this:

"A watched Big East game never ends."

I just have to get up and do something else, seriously. Watching the late game fouling and time outs in a meaningless game like that drives me up a wall.

tis4tim 10 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, but think of the poor Utah State fans who were grousing at the "damn Big 12" and how their games run late all the time. People out west probably missed the entire first half with our OT performance.

ku_foaf 10 years, 9 months ago

It was obvious that they were very tired late in the game.

Kevin Huffman 10 years, 9 months ago

The bad news is that the last time we had a game in which we struggled after a good stretch of good play (Cornell) we followed it up with that loss at Tennessee! :( It'll be interesting to see how we play on Saturday. You would think that it SHOULD BE a game that we win by close to 20.

okiedave 10 years, 9 months ago

I grew up in Lawrence and lived in Denver after graduation. The altitude does have an effect on flatlanders. Interestingly, the humidity in the flatlands affects the high altitude folks when they come to Lawrence. However, the altitude should not be a factor if the coach substitutes liberally.

100 10 years, 9 months ago

Again huge congrats to Colorado...

All of these moments are not only teachable, they're avoidable if the coaching staff (which they will treat this as a tape to study & strategize against for the NCAA) will take advantage of this teachable moment & move our program forward. One thing our staff does very well is documenting these types of things for later use -- I have complete faith that they are grinning at what they learned last night, even if it doesn't show in a Coach Self presser...

X will be fine -- his mind is on learning & doing things not associated with his three right now. Just having him out there takes away their best defender from the paint. Plus I see him fighting for rebounds more often than not & even making some very nice entry passes & steals. It's not "pretty" yet, but he is focusing on things that will make us better down the road. Once he's put his time in there, his three will be open after Coach allows cross picks to be set for him & the like. It's just a matter of getting him open & again, even if he "never gets open", that's fine, that in itself is a great play for the other Jayhawks on the floor.

Well, since no one seems pumped today about platoons, I guess I'm wondering about possible NCAA teams we might run into & how we'd handle their depth considering we only seem to play about 6 players (right now)... Using the subsitution pattern we used last night (remember free throws are missed anytime a player is completely exhausted, that's just the way it is), keeping these things in mind, how would we do against....

The Kentucky Cougars?

okiedave 10 years, 9 months ago

Noticed that moving the game from the traditional Saturday game in Boulder to Wednesday night decreased the K.U. crowd. Smart move on the part of Colorado as this was always an embarrassment for C.U.

86finalfour 10 years, 9 months ago

Jay Bilas, ESPN:

" " A great college basketball team." You may have heard me say it and say it many times. And you may think it sounds unkind and trivializing. But it is not. And it happens to be true.

There are no "great" teams in college basketball this season. And there is only one team that has a chance to reach "great team" status before the end of the season, and that team is Kansas. "

Calling Xavier Henry....Xavier Henry!!!!

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

is it more or are there a bunch of teams in lunardi's 64 that are on KU's schedule?

Ben Kane 10 years, 9 months ago

should have said...'is it me or are there...

jahawkdave 10 years, 9 months ago

KU did play lousy, however the hawks are pretty good when they can play a terrible game against a team's terrific game and still get the W.

Obviously, I'd rather have KU get these bad games out of their system now than later, and if we can still get the W doing so, all the better.

All season long I 've noticed when X is shooting well he is squared up to the basket, and then a lot of times he almost looks like he is slightly sideways on his 3's. When he's squared up he rarely misses when he looks sideways he rarely makes them.

Dyrk Dugan 10 years, 9 months ago

bottom line: a survival a survival place. this game being on the road, after two emotional rival games, was going to be tough to win.

Surprised at the free throws, but hey, we were due. we have been hitting them great in the Big 12.

Marcus Morris is such an improved player...he's a real force inside and then coming from the outside on the dribble drives. he's a real difference maker.

X? i don't know...he's really struggling. his 3 pt. shot in Big 12 play is 25%. Sherron's is only 33%. (Tyrel's is 63%). however, X is 11-12 from the free throw line.

Xavier just needs to stop shooting for awhile...get some putbacks...dribble drives...he just needs to shut 'er down for a game or two. i don't think it has anything to do with the level of play...he's just pressing. and maybe he had too much success early...i mean, 27 in his first game...that will affect you.

we're 7-0...on our way to 8-0...and then at UT. i'd like to see a bunch of kids play this weekend, so we'll have the energy for Austin. these 3 game runs in 5 too many. luckily, this is the last one for this year.

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 9 months ago

All recent games have been too close for X to have a chance to shoot his way out of his slump and get back a little confidence. I think he only tried one or two 3s last night. Here's hoping we will jump all over Nebraska and give him a chance to try a bunch, and give playing time to a lot of different people so the starters can rest up a little for Texas.

jaybate 10 years, 9 months ago

Yesterday, thankfully, Parishawk relieved me a mistaken assumption about the Princeton system (note: I'm calling it a system now, not just an offense, because it really is a coordinated and complementary approach to both offense, transition and defense).

First the basic drivers of the Princeton system appear to be:

on offense: run half court sets for all shots, shoot threes if you can't get open twos, keep your post man high to keep the lane clear for cutters, wear the opponent down by making him fight through a lot of picks, offensive rebound only part of the time.

in transition: stopping transition by getting back is more important than offensive rebounding; any players on the perimeter release the moment the shot is taken to get back on defense--this often means all five are releasing--this practically assures very infrequent fast breaking.

on defense: play a lot of match-up zone and some physical m2m and switch between them frequently to hamper recognition and to save energy for running the cuts and picking offense.

Now my mistaken assumption: I assumed CU played sharply slower than KU, and other teams, with more conventional offenses, and so reduced the possessions in games it played.

Not so.'s estimated possession stats show that KU and CU are averaging nearly the same number of estimated possessions per game. And CU actually averages significantly more possessions than say, NU, another cellar dweller playing Okie Ball (or has Doc Sadler switched to the Princeton and I haven't realized it?). Regardless, it appears to be the end of my argument that the Princeton Offense (PO) drastically slows the game down more than conventional half court offenses like KU's.

jaybate 10 years, 9 months ago

So: if the Princeton system isn't reducing possessions by holding the ball a long time on CU's possessions, what is the Princeton system doing that gives me and others an anecdotal sense that the Princeton system significantly alters the way games unfold. They seem (again, this is a kind of assumption that could be wrong) to unfold with a kind of sticky, steadiness, rather than with a strong ebb and flow of momentum and runs observed between teams using more conventional systems? Leads seem to grow and shrink about as often; that is momentum shifts about as often, but the runs seem smaller--not to go on for as long. Scores seem closer, and swings seem less volatile. A five point lead against a team playing the Princeton system seems like a 10 point lead against a team playing conventionally. A team playing the Princeton system seems less inclined to be drawn into transition basketball, and to get out of it sooner.

Is this impression real, or another false one?

I decided nibble at the edge of the problem. I decided to compare raw scoring spreads between CU and its opponents, and between Nebraska (NU) and its opponents. I picked Nebraska, because they are another cellar dweller in the B12 along with CU. ranks CU 85th and Nu 92rd in the country, which is fairly close. NU and CU seemed to have similarly low levels of talent. And NU plays Doc Sadler's version of Okie Ball a la Don Haskins, so it was a Princeton system vs. a conventional system.

Est. Avg. Possessions CU 68.1 NU 64

jaybate 10 years, 9 months ago

Despite NU actually averaging fewer possessions than the Princeton, I wondered was there any empirical reality to the perception that scores are closer with the Princeton system?

Avg. Pt Spread Between Team & Opponents to Date Team: overall/conf. CU: 12.45/08.13 NU: 15.91/13.63 KU: 22.22/12.75

Considering both wins and losses, CU's point spreads are significantly closer than NUs. KU's spreads are much greater overall, but actually slightly smaller in conference than NU.

The above is hardly conclusive, because NU has played a significantly weaker schedule than CU and opponent strength could affect point spreads differently. Also, this is an N of only 2.

Still, it may hint at what the Princeton system is actually doing. I now suspect it dampens the momentum swings and the volatility of scoring. And I suspect it does this by getting good shots on offense, forcing the opponent to expend a lot of energy defending, releases so many players so quickly from offense to defense that it minimizes transition baskets, and then plays match-up zones and switching m2ms to expend less energy on defense, and take away as much inside scoring as possible.

The obvious outlying piece of data raising a question with my hypothesis is that CU managed as many offensive rebounds as KU did, even though it was often releasing 4 or 5 players to get back on defense. This seems counter intuitive. One would think CU would do less well than KU on the offensive boards. Well, Cole got a lot of boards, but he was exhausted much of the time (chasing a post man outside in the altitude) and was far from the basket much of the time and took quite a few blows on the bench. Maybe this constellation of factors let them get quite a few more offensive reebs than they otherwise might have...when they weren't releasing. Maybe keeping post men out high, turns offensive rebounding for CU into a contest of their perimeter guys trained to rebound and ours that are trained to do much less.

jaybate 10 years, 9 months ago

Before the CU game, Tyrel Reed hinted at another effect of the Princeton system, in particular the offensive part of it. Tyrel said because of the kind of offensive sets CU runs, KU would not be able to apply a lot of pressure on defense. By this I believe he meant that its tough to apply defensive pressure, when you are chasing after cutters and fighting through picks most of the time. Taking away pressure defense from a Bill Self team is like taking away the fastbreak offense from John Wooden's old UCLA teams. You are knocking out a foundation stone. It is, therefore, no wonder that KU struggles against Princeton system, and modified Princeton system teams. Clearly, this is the reason Self is eventually going to have to find a counter-measure sooner or later to this offense. Self and KU have won most of their encounters with Princeton system teams by simply chasing aggressively and practicing some post switching by KU's big man, but they always win by the skin of their teeth. I think an OT win against a CU team without its best player and with waaaaaaay worse talent than KU may finally force Self to the drawing board. He has probably already called Eddie and Larry and said, "Any ideas?"

Any way, the above is at least a start in systematically understanding what effect the Princeton system actually triggers.

To date, I believe too much time (at least by board rats) has been spent on understanding the offensive sets of the Princeton offense and not enough in understanding the combined effect of the Princeton system on the way the game unfolds.

Hypothesis: It doesn't slow the game down so much as it reduces the volatility in scoring and momentum swings by minimizing transition baskets with 4-5 man releases and by drawing down the opponents energy budget by making defense hard to play, given whatever speed a conventional half court opponent tries to play at. Further, it probably does often slow down a true fast breaking team, but not necessarily more so can most conventional systems, when played correctly, too.

And, regardless, it still annoys hell out of me and I believe that is central to its effectiveness against all who play against it.

ChronicHawk2012 10 years, 9 months ago

First things first, hats off to Colorado. They really played their hearts out in coming back from that 18 point deficit. I'll tack this close game on to a number of things: 1. Colorado's fans actually showed up for once (how rare is that) 2. Colorado's fans had a reason to get noisy AFTER showing up 3. Free Throws 4. My friends dad nearly jinxed us

Can't be upset about a game like that. 'Hawks keep finding a way to win and that's all that's important. I remember Davidson...sometimes there's nothing better than a Jayhawk-opposition led missed shot. Thanks Cory Higgins.

Scott Smetana 10 years, 9 months ago

First of all, us geniouses who saw this trap game coming should have been in Vegas, the spread was 14. By the way, CU is better this year and have a great coach.

Second, I'm glad we're all not making a big deal out of the game (where's soobawls?). I like SC's sense of humor.

Lastly, X has a good attitude and is keeping his nose clean. I'll enjoy watching him improve over the next season or 2. Let's cut him a break. He's a Brandon Rush in the making. As long as the twins continue to be men, we're looking sweet.

kvskubball 10 years, 9 months ago


One thing the Princeton (P-Team) does is it moves the ball, and ALL of the players on offense, and to keep the P-Team from getting easy shots, the defensive team needs to be moving, chasing, using energy, probably more than against many other styles of play (unless of course you play a zone, as mentioned by someone). So I think that contributes to the result you alluded to, reducing swings, because they generally don't throw up early shots, even if they don't always run a lot of clock (but some P-Teams do run a lot of clock, trying to not take a shot with more than 10 seconds on the shot-clock - usually these are teams that are less-athletic. I liken the slowed down version of the P Offense, to a more constricted version of the 4 corners O before shot clocks - often makes the other team go to sleep and look bad).

So, with all that, the other team spends a lot of energy on D, and probably ends up getting a little more stagnant in it's own O, especially if it is a team that likes to run and gun, like some kind of damping or energy sapping contraption, sucking the life out of the game - draining both physical and mental energy. Best thing to say is it is just going to take more effort, on D, if the other team is a TEAM and utilizes all five guys, in it's offensive system/execution.

tis4tim 10 years, 9 months ago


This is just a guess in regards to the high number of offensive rebounds for CU, but if the Princeton system looks for the kickout and the 3-ball as often as it appears to do barring an open cutting lane, then any miss will create a long carom off the rim. Longer rebounds are much more of a crapshoot when it comes to establishing good defensive position. And, if everyone is releasing at the time of the shot, it means that you may have all five guys in a good position to get the rebound. It certainly seemed like there were several offensive rebounds for CU that were made near the free throw line after missed shots last night.

As for the possession differential being negligible, I think it has something to do with the frustration of the opponent as you suggested in your last sentence. That is, a deliberate plodding style makes the opposing team impatient when they go on offense making for plenty of quick shots early in the shot clock. Long possessions by CU coupled with much shorter possessions by the opponent sort of cancel each other out in a sense.

Steve Brown 10 years, 9 months ago

Austin arena issues: Maybe it is coincidence the last couple games in Austin it seemed to me that when Brandon was up for a J shot, the background lighting that rings the arena went from soft orange to bright white in middle of his shot.

Maybe it is random maybe was like completing a j shot in a strobe light in your eyes. hardly noticable but ever present when we had the ball.

LJW staff should be able to detect the difference if it is planned or programmed to disrupt us. Texas on O doesn't get the white strobe until after basket made.

It is all math, number theory twilight zone stuff...... PS if wrong, then nevermind. if correct turn them into NCAA.

MGJayhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

kushaw - Your analysis is long winded and dumb. Please quit posting on here, or if you do, keep it short. Sick of scrolling through all your bs.

Steve Brown 10 years, 9 months ago

Given games remaining the likely standings at season end:

Kansas Baylor KState Texas Missouri A&M.

No matter the game monday this is likely outcome. The game monday has high interest for me but the important conference game the next few days is Baylor Saturday at A&M if they can get a W, they are on track to end season in 2nd spot. Given games remaining on their calendar, while Texas will have some tough tests and likely end up 4th.

JayhawkBigXII 10 years, 9 months ago

Hey, here's a thought. If Markeef is an IDENTICAL twin to Marcus, how can it be that Markeef can't hit a free throw or shoot like Marcus? eh?

Scott Lippoldt 10 years, 9 months ago

MGJayhawk, Your comments are short winded and dumb. Please quit posting on here, or if you do, keep make it worthwhile. Sick of scrolling through all your bs.

waywardJay 10 years, 9 months ago

So... is it me or was relphorde going a little bit Mayweather there....

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

MGJayhawk, Your comments are short winded and dumb. Please quit posting on here, or if you do, keep make it worthwhile. Sick of scrolling through all your bs.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

This game caused me the most concern of any game this year. Has nothing to do with the result, or the opponent.

It has to do with our rotation. Particularly in the last minutes of the game and OT. I think I have come around to believing we can win big games with Brady starting, but that is IF we have X in there, like December.

I am thoroughly convinced that the lineup in overtime .. Aldrich, Marcus, Reed, Morningstar, and Collins, are not what NCAA championships are made of.

If X can't play in OT, then he shouldn't be starting. I am baffled by his poor play and embarrassed I have defended him starting here many times. What I see, and maybe I'm wrong, is a lack of effort. I don't see him going all out. Again, maybe I'm wrong.

It is clear that EJ and Robinson are unfortunately out of the mix. It is clear that coach Self has lost faith in X and Taylor (as Taylor sat the important minutes, too). I am not a Taylor fan (I know many of you are shocked by that proclamation) but is it really better to play Tyrel Reed? Seriously, he is no threat to score but for a catch and shoot at the arc. And Brady is just a compliment. We can't afford to have those two, on the floor, against a real team in crunch time. We won, but were lucky it was Colorado.

My answer has always been EJ. Suck it up, play him 25 minutes at home this weekend, and just see what you've got. What is the real risk? And while you're at it, give Robinson Markieff's minutes. Again, what's the real risk this weekend? It's worth it just to see ... and the answer may be negative. But man, when I see what I saw last night, this team needs energy, and needs a spark.

Hank Cross 10 years, 9 months ago

The close games against teams that KU should be running off the court by the half and the lack of progress by TT and X are symptoms of the same issue. As someone said above, coaches also have tendencies. Self's tendencies are to prefer a half-court, defensive struggle. It also seems that he coaches more in the way of trying to keep a lead, rather than blow someone out. I think TT and X have been hampered b/c they're afraid that if they make a mistake, they'll end up on the bench and Reed and Brady will take their minutes.

Is there any doubt what X would be doing if he followed Cal to UK? He, Wall and Cousins would be called the greatest frosh class since the MI Fab 5. As someone said above, any 5 star recruit who sees X and TT losing minutes to Reed and Brady is going to have second thoughts about coming here. Or at least that point will be made to recruits by competing schools.

That being said, you can't argue against Self's won/lost record. This team could win it all. It could also lose in the 2nd round.

Hank Cross 10 years, 9 months ago

HighElite is right on the issue when he says Aldrich, Marcus, Morningstar, Reed, and Collins are not what championships are made of. Tell X he is our guy and leave him in crunch time. Even if they were to drop a game or two, it wouldn't matter as long as X feels confident for the Tourney. Let's be real. Who really cares about a conf. championship? Misery used to win Big 8 titles, and look where it got them. Nowhere near a FF. I'd rather drop to 2 seed with the talented players gaining in confidence than be a 1 that keeps that ranking by making 1 less error than their opponents.

Hank Cross 10 years, 9 months ago

ralster- There is alot to what you say. But, 8 losses are meaningless so long as you don't lose your last game. Morningstar and Reed will never be anything more than somewhat passable subs and wouldn't be superstars on any team, even if they were on the worst team in Div. 1.

X and TT are probably missing shots and making turnovers b/c they're looking over their shoulder to see if Self is sending in their sub. Let the the best players have a legit shot at development.

Yes, Self did win a championship, but so did Boeheim. As hands-off as coach Calipari is, he would've won one too if Rose would've hit that bankshot beyond the arc or made another free throw.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

oxcal "I'd rather drop to 2 seed with the talented players gaining in confidence than be a 1 that keeps that ranking by making 1 less error than their opponents."

Right on. There are worse things than turnovers. There are worse things than losing a few Big 12 games. Don't play it safe. Take a chance. Ralster mentioned Self not wanting to risk 2 freshman playing through adversity. I agree, that is Self's approach. But he is placing a ceiling on this team by trying to limit his downside and risk, which in the end, I fear, will equal a sweet 16 or elite 8 exit.

Ralster: "But I force myself to be patient, as Self will not tolerate careless turnovers or poor decision-making." Tell me then, why has Self tolerated Tyshawn so long? He is the epitome of what you say Self won't tolerate. I'm baffled, because EJ seemed farther along that Taylor was last year.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

Ralster: I did a comparison on January 12 between EJ and TT. It was basically what happened per each minute played. I'm with you on this .. I see EJ and TRob as core players to a national title run in the future. Energy, excitement, athleticism and production. I keep comparing EJ to Mario, and Robinson to Collison. Anyway, here are the stats as of Jan. 12 that I had found (understanding that EJ didn't play a high percentage of important minutes, of course):

Taylor has played 359 minutes. EJ 125 minutes. The following show the contributions per minute - Rebounds, Taylor 1 every 9.2 minutes, EJ 1 every 6.25 minutes. Advantage EJ. Assists, Taylor 1 every 5.98 minutes, EJ 1 every 4.46 minutes. Advantage EJ. Steals, Taylor 1 every 17.95 minutes, EJ 1 every 17.85 minutes. Advantage EJ. Points, Taylor 1 every 3.29 minutes, EJ 1 every 2.5 minutes Advantage EJ. Turnover, Taylor 1 every 12.82 minutes, EJ 1 every 10.41 minutes. Advantage TT. Fouls, Taylor 1 every 11.58, EJ 1 every 6.57 minutes. Advantage TT.

Add in Field goal percentage, Taylor 44%, EJ 54.5%. Advantage EJ. And 3 point Field goal percentage, Taylor 32%, EJ 33.3% Advantage EJ. And Free Throw percentage, Taylor 70%, EJ 66.7%. Advantage TT.

Jeremy LeMaster 10 years, 9 months ago

Cannot believe all the smack talk on KU on this site ( by posters ). Grow up! just because X isn't living upto some lofty expectation... Let him grow into the player he can become.

jaybate 10 years, 9 months ago

kvskubball and tis4tim,

Thanks for wading in on this.

I agree with both your takes.

I increasingly look at basketball as an energy budget and I agree that the Princeton system draws down a team's energy budget by making them play a ton of chase defense.

jaybate 10 years, 9 months ago


Thought some more about Tyshawn.

Ty's biggest problem is that his floor game did not get better over the summer and Brady's and Tyrel's did. They have closed the gap with Tyshawn on every facet of play except speed.

Ty's second biggest problem is that he did not improve his trey and they are shooting the trey a little better.

Ty's third biggest problem is the intermittent brain disconnects that you discribe; what I have called a concentration problem.

Jim Pendleton 10 years, 9 months ago

Sorry these comments are so late, but been on the road, so this is the first chance I have had to post since the game last night.

First some corrections & disagreements -

kushaw - surprised you would say CU has a home court advantage because of the altitude. Their record the past several years would seem to tell you that isn't much of a factor.

Many others made comments about altitude also. While there have been some occasional close games, the altitude hasn't seemed to be that much of a factor in years past. While I agree the team looked gassed on several occasions, I have a hard time believing that the altitude was the sole reason. Perhaps we need to address the fact that some guys are constantly playing too many minutes and this could be a bigger problem later on.

truehawk93 - you said Gonzaga & Arizona didn't have a problem playing there. That is because those games were in the Maui Invitational, not in Boulder.

okiedave - thought that CU was responsible for the game being on Wed not Sat. Maybe they had input, but the conference schedules Big 12 games not the schools.

As bad as things went last night for a good portion of the game, it wouldn't have been near as bad had we just made free throws. If they even made half the ones they missed, we probably keep a decent margin thruout, and it is probably a double digit win. Then we all could have spent more time on the other problems we had.

Interesting that in the Tenn game, they had a bunch of players out and we lost. One of CU's better players was out, and we almost lost again. Maybe we need to hope that all of our opponents have their full complement of players each night.

Finally I always have to bring this up at least once or twice a season. You always hear someone make a comment about not being ready to play, or heaven forbid looking past an opponent. This is not the NBA where you have 80+ reg season, plus pre and post season. College you get no more than 40, and that is if you go all the way. Most teams are around 30 or so. No excuse for not being ready to play every night, and never overlook any opponent, especially on the road.

Hopefully they will learn from this night, and hopefully we can win by a pretty good margin Saturday against the Huskers so others get some minutes and we can rest some of the regulars prior to Monday night. This would be a nice pattern to get to as we have three weeks in a row of Sat - Mon games. Need to keep things rolling in the right direction. Rock Chalk!!

docileboy 10 years, 9 months ago

It's elementary Watson, Moringstar is a better all around player at this point than X. Usually the coach will want his best players on the floor.

Hank Cross 10 years, 9 months ago

docile-"It's elementary Watson, Moringstar is a better all around player at this point than X. Usually the coach will want his best players on the floor."

Are you serious? Half of the guys - and alot of the girls- shooting hoops in Robinson have as good as an offensive game as Brady. As for D, towards the end of last season, Brady's D consisted of fouling guys who were going past him.

The more I think about Self not playing X (and TT) in the OT, the more ridiculous it is for later down down the road. Self should've put in Cole, McM, SC, TT, and X and told them to get it done. Win or lose, that group would've found out how they play under pressure. Of course he is not of the same talent level, but MJ did not get ready to make that shot against G'Town by sitting on the bench in crunch time as a frosh.

kvskubball 10 years, 9 months ago


I trust Coach Self...his 'mistakes' have been pretty far, in coaching our team, IMO.

He trusts his more mature players to give the effort he requires, even if their skill set is less than younger players with more talent. Coach has said it before, you have to value each possession as games become more imporant. Right now he doesn't seem to be comfortable having Tyshawn and X on the court at the same time.

He had left X on the floor through almost any missteps he made, through the first 18 games of the season. I think he senses X's frustration as D's figure out how to play him, and Coach is trying to give X the time he needs to work through how he can counter what they are doing, its more a mental thing than physical, IMO.

So, because he was leaving X. Henry in, he was having a very short leash on Tyshawn. Now, he is going with Tyshawn more, because Ty's game is further along in being able to play against any D thrown at him -- versus Xavier's.

I've been a little surprised that he hasn't put EJ and TRob in more, but I think he basically handled Cole much the same way in his freshman season, playing him quite a lot before the conference season, and then using him sparingly through conference play.

Brady and Tyrel do not have the same skill level as Tyshawn, X, EJ, and TRob, but their effort, and valueing of each possession offsets the talent differential, which I don't think is as great as many perceive it to be. By playing Brady and Tyrel, he is making a teaching point to the younger players. Value the ball or someone else will play who does, even if they aren't as talented. I think we have seen this approach pay dividends with Tyshawn...who wasn't valueing the ball early in the season, looking more like a shotgun, thinking that if he just does anything towards the target he was bound to hit it, NOT.

I think recently Tyshawn has been 'more' under control, but I chuckle at myself because when people discuss Tyshawn's game and his tendency to be either really great with his athleticism, or really bad with his decision-making and execution, all I can think of is whether Tyshawn is really Bi-Polar. If he is, then it isn't anything to laugh about, but to me it is a term that represents the game we see with Tyshawn. Sometimes the switch is on and he's in, and everything is great, and sometimes the switch is off and he does the dumbest things. Mostly I just think it is because he tries so hard, and is trying to sync his brain and his athletic ability, and at 19+ yrs, he's not always able to do it. So, frustrating for us fans, but that's why people talk about a 'learning curve'...

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 9 months ago

Anyone who thinks we can't win a title with Brady playing a central role doesn't understand basketball. You don't need a Dream Team to win championships -- you need 2 or 3 great players complemented by smart role players.

Brady's athleticism is highly underrated, but the main thing is he's a glue guy -- exactly what we were lacking before he came back from suspension.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

oxcal: what you heard above from kvskuball is standard baloney (respectfully). It is the twisted logic that we've come to know and love .. "Because Coach Self thinks it's right, it must be right."

There is a group of folks that post that fall back on this all the time. However, as we have seen, coach Self has been wrong. He put his faith in Taylor, and now where are we? For weeks, it was "coach Self knows better than anyone, that's why he's playing Taylor" blah, blah, blah. And everyone makes all these lame arguments about valuing the ball, valuing each possession, and freshmen not being ready, and what ever else.

The baloney from kvskuball is a perfect example (and I say baloney, again, very respectfully). Look at kvskuball's defense of Taylor .. more under control recently .. did he see the K-State game? Did he see the Colorado game (and Raftery's perfect comments on Taylor being out of control "what's he thinking?")

As for the comparison to Cole in his freshman year ... Cole had Arthur, Jackson, and Kaun ahead of him. EJ has Taylor, Reed, and Morningstar. Not even a comparison.

kvskuball states: "By playing Brady and Tyrel, he is making a teaching point to the younger players. Value the ball or someone else will play who does, even if they aren't as talented. I think we have seen this approach pay dividends with Tyshawn." Ok, I agree, it may be an attempted teaching point. But paying dividends with Taylor. Holy c***! Was he ever worse than the turnover at the end of the KSU regulation, and then the next play where he threw it at Collins' feet? Or in overtime when he barrelled in the lane and got a charge call? What dividends? Taylor has proven he is not teachable.

To finish that off, using the "Self knows best logic", Self did not play Taylor in OT except when it was locked up in the last few seconds. I would gather then that Self may see that his approach has not paid dividends.

Finally, kvskuball says "He trusts his more mature players to give the effort he requires, even if their skill set is less than younger players with more talent." Again, what planet are we on ... are there two players that play harder than EJ and TRob? By your statement, you acknowledge that the younger players may be more talented. I think we all recognize that.

My sole point; the basis of my soul on this is that Self can't stomach the mistakes that may come with freshmen. I think he is dead wrong. Dead wrong. But when the freshmen are obviously better players, but simply need more experience, we should give them the experience so we have a better team come March, when it counts. It is that easy.

I asked this question a couple of times before of TT lovers .. if you could have one player for the next two years, who would it be .. TT or EJ? TT lovers didn't reply.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

hawk_of_ages: "Anyone who thinks we can't win a title with Brady playing a central role doesn't understand basketball. You don't need a Dream Team to win championships -- you need 2 or 3 great players complemented by smart role players."

I now agree on Brady based on his improvement this year. I've been impressed by him. However, we can't win a national championship with our main 5 being Aldrich, Marcus, Brady, Reed, and Collins in crunch time, like Wednesday. If you have a productive X instead of Reed, ok. But Reed and Brady, no.

I will say, though .. our ability to handle pressure from a top team .. ballhandling .. is a major question with Brady on the floor vs. a true, ballhandling 2.

Hank Cross 10 years, 9 months ago

Highelite-"Self can't stomach the mistakes that may come with freshmen. I think he is dead wrong. Dead wrong. But when the freshmen are obviously better players, but simply need more experience, we should give them the experience so we have a better team come March, when it counts. It is that easy"

You are right. He is dead wrong. March is all that matters. And to win in March you need the most talented players prepped and ready to go. You can only get real game time experience by playing real games. The preseason (i.e. everything before the Tourney) exists only to get enough wins for a decent seed, beat Misery and get ready to try to win 6 in a row. Was that conf. championship a good consolation prize for the Pierce/Lafrenz/Vaughn/Pollard team that lost to AZ? The last league tourney game that had any real meaning was when Ron Kellog hit a baseline J with time running out to beat the Sooners and the late Wayman Tisdale.

Speaking of the 80s, Brown played Scooter Barry and Chris Piper in the championship b/c there wasn't anyone with more talent on the bench.

Also, think of a top recruit in say, NYC. They don't know if there is any difference between KU and UK. What they will know - b/c Calipari will be sure to remind them - is that in one place, talented frosh are allowed to develop their game thru playing, and the other is where if they make a mistake or two, they will be sitting while glorified gym rats will be playing. Which would you choose?

As far as the Self always knows best argument, I doubt many people would be saying that if that shot by Davidson would've gone down in light of Bucknell and Bradley.

docileboy 10 years, 9 months ago

Why does the University waste all that money on Coach Self, when there are several people posting on this site that have forgotten more than Coach knows? Get a grip!

Steve Brown 10 years, 9 months ago

High Elite says: It has to do with our rotation. Particularly in the last minutes of the game and OT. I think I have come around to believing we can win big games with Brady starting, but that is IF we have X in there, like December. I am thoroughly convinced that the lineup in overtime .. Aldrich, Marcus, Reed, Morningstar, and Collins, are not what NCAA championships are made of.

Elite: I hear your concerns, do we build forts or attack groups. If it is OT and we have lead and the ball, then I can think of no better combination to restrict turnovers, hit FT, and make clock best decisions. If we are behind and must have a steal or a block then I could envision a different set.

OxcalJay, yes Calimari has best recruit message, that won't change until NCAA gets his KY banners taken down and stored with UMass and Memphis State's. You don't come to KU to be JWall, or Beasley even CJ and X knew that. You come to Kansas to grow into RussRob, DBlock and where the twins are headed.

Steve Brown 10 years, 9 months ago

TO all on this thread on all sides of the discussions, this is one of the most enjoyable threads for me, so I thank all of you for your insight & how you have made me think and revaluate. THANK YOU.

Sherron on way to becoming KU best guard ever, I was wrong few months ago having him 5th, he is on way to the top dawg.

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 9 months ago

It's odd that so many KU "fans" seem to enjoy ranting on the Internet about how bad certain KU players are. "We can't win a title with Tyrel and Brady!" "Tyshawn is uncoachable! Uncoachable!"

Uh, what's this team's record again?

Never mind being #1 in the nation... We're undefeated with a 2-game lead against the toughest Big 12 field I can ever remember. Let's try to put this in perspective.

And while I agree that "Coach Self knows best" isn't much of an argument, neither is "EJ and TRob looked really good against Alcorn State, therefore they should beat out Tyshawn and Tyrel for minutes."

kvskubball 10 years, 9 months ago

Just worth repeating, IMO...

I'll take Coach Self's results, over your critiques of his methods...

What is his winning percentage? How many Big 12 Championships has he won?

He guided a team to the National title.

So where do you guys get off thinking you know more than he does?

Are there different ways to do things, sure. Are those ways always better? I don't think so.

Anyone who doesn't think Tyshawn has played better recently than at the beginning of the year, is just a hater...does he still make stupid mistakes? Yes, but he is more under control MORE of the time. That's improvement, and with his ability, I can see why Coach is giving him the PT versus other, younger and less experienced players.

I'm not a Yes man for Coach Self, but neither am I so arrogant to sit here and type on my computer about how I know better than someone who has won at every coaching stop he's been at.

Will his way sell as well to top recruits? NO, but he doesn't set himself up to get all OAD's and have to restock each year either, and to have to try to get it done in just one year. I like his way better than the Calipari way, and until the results show that his way isn't working, I'm definitely willing to throw my support behind Coach Self. I won't agree with everything he does, and yes I agree he is loathe to trust youngsters, but that also gives them more time to get up to speed in the college game.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

kvkubball: I just think you're wrong on Taylor. We will just agree to disagree. I think your position, though, is not based upon TT vs. EJ, but based on your logic that Self must be right because he knows more than the rest of us.

But answer this question: Would you rather have Taylor for the next two years, or EJ? Just interested. I've never been able to get one TT lover to answer that ...

You ask this question to those that question coach Self: "So where do you guys get off thinking you know more than he does?"

Answer: I don't know more than coach Self. Neither does oxcal. He never said that, nor did I. Obviously, coach Self is a great coach. If I could pick one coach, it would be him. The point is he is not infallible. He is not perfect. Meaning, he can make a mistake or two. Just like Marty Schottenheimer going back to Grbac in 1997 when Gannon was playing well, a great coach can make a poor decision. By your logic, there should be no criticism or second guessing because he knows more than all of us.

Then you make another point: "Are there different ways to do things, sure. Are those ways always better? I don't think so." Of course they aren't "always better." But sometimes, maybe, they might be. And the evidence, thus far, is tipping against the "I'll bet my season on Tyshawn at the 2." Tell me this, if Tyshawn flames out and does not improve as you suggest, what will you say then? Self has already reduced his minutes .. if Self was infallible, he would have had the keen foresight to handle this differently from the start.

Finally, the best one of all from you: "I'm not a Yes man for Coach Self, but neither am I so arrogant to sit here and type on my computer about how I know better than someone who has won at every coaching stop he's been at." Buddy, you are a yes man. There's a place in this world for "yes men." You simply think this guy can do no wrong. Again, I respect that blind faith .. but there is a reason they call it "blind" faith.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

Hawk_of_ ages: You have different goals for this team than I do. You care about a conference championship, you like really think going undefeated in the non-con means something. I want a national championship. I'll sacrifice a few losses for meshing at the end. Anything less than a national championship is meaningless. They call a foul on Tyrel at the end of KSU regulation and the last Colorado possession in regulation ends on a made shot, and we've lost our last two and we aren't having this conversation. We got lucky. Good teams find ways to win, but no one can deny we could have easily lost those two games. I, you, oxcal, everyone, has watched enough KU basketball to know that we are scuffling right now, and this is not a team any of us would feel comfortable with in a Sweet 16 game with 5;00 minutes left and tied, against Purdue, or Georgia Tech, or Tennessee, or Pittsburgh.

But you make a great point .. you say TRob or EJ doing well against Alcorn St. isn't a good argument as to why they should play now. Agreed. But I never said that. Nor did anyone else. The point is, I think, why not give them meaningful minutes under fire, in tough spots, and see what you've got? Take a chance, risk it tomorrow vs. Nebraska. Ok, we play TRob and EJ 25 minutes each tomorrow, they stink, and we lose to Nebraska. That is the worst that can happen. Is that too big of a risk? Let's look at the reward .. we do that and, man, they did ok. My point has always been we should have done that in December .. perhaps we lose to Cornell and UCLA, whatever. If we are better in March, who cares.

Self has unequivocally said, though, by playing Taylor and Reed over EJ, and Markieff over TRob, that he thinks we'll be better in March with those guys getting minutes now; or, he values the immediate wins over March. It's one or the other, or a combination of the two. We will see if he's right.

kvskubball 10 years, 9 months ago


You pick and choose what you want to read in my posts...when I say I'm not a yes man, and explain that in the last paragraph - saying I won't always agree with all he does, but he's the guy making the decisions, and he has made pretty good ones, or he and our teams wouldn't have the records or accomplishments that they've put together since he's been here. I'll second guess things, but overall I think that you go overboard in your statements. Coach's results, and player development record has been pretty good, IMO.

When I say that I'll take Coach's results over your opinions...that isn't saying I think he is infallible. You say that I'm saying he's infallible, for saying that I trust him to make good decisions, because he has made good decisions, so I see no reason to think that all of the sudden, out of the blue he's going to start making decisions that suck. Do I think he's perfect, NO. But I can live with and support his decisions because of his track record? Yes. Do coaches sometimes have blind spots, you bet they do. Sometimes Coach sits on his hands in a game, not often, but two years ago against OSU, he kinda did. Everybody has off days, or at least everyone I know, maybe you don't have off days?

As to which player I would rather have for two years? I honestly can't make a call on that one because I think they are both very talented. Tyshawn has been on the court more, and so we've seen a lot of good and bad from him. EJ hasn't been on the court nearly as much, so his sample size is too small to evaluate with a great deal of confidence. I think if they both develop the way I think they will, they will both contribute and can both be studs, and that perhaps EJ might be better at the end, but that's mostly just a guess, at this point. If you want me to spend 4 paragraphs analyzing their pros and cons I can, but I've got more info on Ty than on EJ....

You say you think Self is dead wrong about how he uses freshmen...I disagree...this year isn't much different than other years, except this year, he's played one freshman, X, way past the point where he is productive, so I think that saying, or implying he won't play freshmen enough is off target. If you are able to watch practices every day (I'm not able to) then maybe you see something that I don't. Otherwise, your statements about how Self is mis-using his freshmen are just your opinion.

Cole wasn't used very much his freshman year, but what Coach did with him obviously worked, because he was ready to go against UNC in the semi-finals, but then wasn't much of a factor in the final game. Freshmen tend to be inconsistent and I think Coach has done a good job of helping them reach their potentials (Seldom as fast as they think they should, but then young people know everything, just ask a teacher), if they are willing to work within his rules.

kvskubball 10 years, 9 months ago

More... Can freshmen benefit from PT, sure, but so do sophomores, and juniors. I just find it funny that you can make a call about who should be playing, better than Coach can. We're fortunate and have 14 high level players on this year's team, 2 of which are red-shirting. Someone, or more than one are going to be left out of the rotation... My guess is that CJ Henry would be a pretty good player, if he could get healthy long enough for coach to be confident in him. Coach likes mature players. I think mature/older players (that are close to having the same skill level) often make a higher percentage of good plays than do younger/less experienced players.

What I said about Coach preferring Brady and Tyrel because he trusts their effort, didn't say they played harder -- you read that in there. I said he trusts their effort. Effort is what you put into something, maybe I should have said he trusts their decision making, and poise (and that's relative, because none of the four guards we're talking about is perfect). Those two don't often throw up bad, or quick shots, they have shown what they can do, and at this point, I think Coach finds what they can give to be more than what he thinks EJ and TRob (He's not a guard, obviously, but he was brought into the discussion) can give - NOW. I'd especially like to see TRob play more, we're going to need another big in some games, but if he's got the right mind-set, he'll be ready when called on, just like Cole, by the end of this year. Who do you sit for TRob? The same with the guards, we've got a ton of them, who do you sit, and why?

Both Tyrel and Brady have won games for us, or made shots that led to wins, and I think they've added more overall than any negatives they bring. As you point out with Tyshawn, that isn't the case with every player. Tyshawn makes good decisions and bad decisions, and sometimes I find myself holding my breathe, when he's running point, because he is like a box of chocolates, but you know what? Most chocolates taste good, and I see improvement, but then I'm not someone who expects Tyshawn to be perfect, or good -- almost all of the time. Last year, Sherron drove me crazy, some of the time, with his decision-making, but he was trying to do what Coach asked of him - which was a lot. Coach is asking Tyshawn to do a lot, for a guy who is only in the middle of his sophomore year. My guess is that if EJ were playing more, you'd be saying much the same things about his play, because he would probably be inconsistent too.

I enjoy the discussion, even though I disagree with much of your statements and conclusions you reach.

kvskubball 10 years, 9 months ago


So, if Coach takes us to the Final Four again this year and maybe even wins it all, will that change your mind about how he should use his players, or the appropriateness of the way he has used players? If not, why not? I don't need him to win it all again this year (though I'd love it, and think he'll give us a great shot at it), he's already done it once, but I guess that doesn't show he knows what he's doing, better than what your opinion is about WHAT he should be doing?

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