Tuesday, November 24, 2009

Former colleagues come to KU coach Mangino’s defense

Several former colleagues, including Bill Snyder, Mike Leach, Bob Stoops and Al Bohl, voiced their support of Mark Mangino, KU football's embattled coach, Monday.

Several former colleagues, including Bill Snyder, Mike Leach, Bob Stoops and Al Bohl, voiced their support of Mark Mangino, KU football's embattled coach, Monday.


When, in the winter of 2001, former Kansas University athletic director Al Bohl tapped a fiery Oklahoma assistant named Mark Mangino to help turn around a program coming off six consecutive losing seasons, he did so with the comfort that he’d picked the right man for the job.

Eight years later, with Mangino the subject of an ongoing university investigation concerning his treatment of players, Bohl’s feelings on the matter haven’t changed.

“I never tried to hire a coach because he was just a buddy of Al Bohl’s,” Bohl said. “I tried to hire people that were best for the university and that could really have an impact on the program. Mark Mangino was somebody who knew what the ingredients were to be successful at a place like the University of Kansas.”


Bill Snead/Journal-World Photo

Kansas University coach Mark Mangino, right, congratulates Texas Tech coach Mike Leach at midfield after the Red Raiders defeated the Jayhawks in 2004.

In the days since current KU athletic director Lew Perkins made the investigation public — a move that set off a messy chain of events — Bohl is one several former colleagues who have voiced their support for the Jayhawks’ embattled coach, many of whom remain fiercely loyal to the man affectionately known as “Bear” to his longtime friends.

Among the allies are current Big 12 coaches Bill Snyder of Kansas State, Bob Stoops of Oklahoma and Mike Leach of Texas Tech, each of whom said Monday that the allegations raised in recent days — from the coach’s regular verbal abuse of players and assistants to his pressuring of players to play through injury — didn’t mesh with the man they’d coached with at various points during the past 20 years.

“He was very close with (players), appreciated them, did everything that was appropriate,” said Stoops, who worked with Mangino at both Kansas State and Oklahoma.


Kansas head coach Mark Mangino and Oklahoma head coach Bob Stoops come together for a congratulatory meeting after the game Saturday, Oct. 18, 2008 at Memorial Stadium in Norman, Oklahoma.

Added Snyder, asked whether he witnessed Mangino cross any lines during their eight years together in Manhattan: “That didn’t happen to my knowledge, and not a whole lot slips under the radar from that respect. He handled the players well.”

Bohl, meanwhile, said he didn’t remember receiving any player complaints about Mangino during the time they were both at Kansas, adding that the job of head football coach requires a certain level of toughness and an ability to walk a tight rope.

“If you talk to other coaches, you realize that there are 100-and-something Div. I programs, let alone all the Div. II and IIIs, and those coaches are just one or two complaints away from the same thing probably happening to (them),” Bohl said. “That tough love and things that coaches deal with, every coach is only a heartbeat away from one or two players complaining.”

Those who know Mangino insist his approach hasn’t changed over the years. He always has worked a certain way, always prided himself on his toughness, discipline and attention to detail. Players looking for a hug and a pat on the back should go elsewhere.

Big 12 colleagues voice support for embattled KU coach

Various Big 12 Conference coaches supported KU coach Mark Mangino, who is being investigated for inappropriate behavior by KU.

But always, coaches say, he’s carried out the job the right way.

They remember a man who demanded everything from a player so long as he was standing on a football field. A man who, after a night shift driving an ambulance on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, would grab a couple hours of sleep on the floor of his Geneva College office before rising to begin preparations for practice. A man who, despite his rise to national prominence, still makes the time — even with the prospect of preparing for Texas gnawing at him — to keep in touch with old friends.

What they don’t remember, however, is the kind of person being portrayed by some former players — one who berated members of his team for the sole reason of breaking them down.

“We’re maybe old-school, where you see a kid with some talent and they’re not maximizing it,” said Geneva College head coach Geno DeMarco, who served alongside Mangino when both were assistants at the school in the late 1980s. “Maybe for us not blessed with NFL talent, we’re just not going to let that go. If you came to some of my practices, you’d probably think, ‘Wow, this guy’s at a Christian school, and he’s pretty animated and fired up.’ It’s just part of the way he was coached, the way we were all coached.

“Let’s take a poll with the 750 or so college football coaches, and we’ll see how many of them coach with their hands behind their backs and their mouths closed,” he added.

They also point to his success.

Not just the on-field accomplishments — four straight seasons of bowl-eligibility, consecutive bowl victories for the first time in school history in ’07 and ’08 and an unprecedented Orange Bowl trophy — but to the behind-the-scenes achievements as well.

YouTube Jayhawk Flashback: Mark Mangino introduced as new KU football coach

Mark Mangino is introduced as the new head football coach at the University of Kansas in two separate events in 2001. The beginning of the video shows the attendance from KU's last football game in 2001 against Wyoming.

Mangino’s first recruiting class, for instance, tallied a significant increase in graduation success rate, while the program also posted its highest team grade-point average in history (2.69) during the spring semester of 2007.

“When you have 130 guys on a team, you can find some disgruntled players,” said John Latina, who assisted Mangino in getting his first Div. I coaching job as a graduate assistant at K-State. “On every team in America. Things I’ve read and things that I’ve heard, I think it’s somewhat unfair. What I know is (Kansas) wasn’t very good for quite a few years before he got there, and he took a program that was down — in a tough area of the country that doesn’t maybe have the most recruits in the geographical area — and he’s done a phenomenal job with it.”

Asked whether he would feel comfortable sending his own children to play for Mangino, Latina said, “Tomorrow.”

As the saga has played out across newspapers and television sets across the country in recent days, some ex-colleagues are trying to understand what, exactly, the motives are behind the airing of the university’s dirty laundry in a public setting.

Mostly, they seem confused as to how an alleged poke in the chest has resulted in a former national coach of the year fighting for his coaching life as rumors concerning his future in Lawrence swirl.

“This guy could have run for governor last year in Kansas and won,” DeMarco said. “And now, all of a sudden, his coaching techniques are questioned because they’ve lost some games?

“Just call it what it is,” he added. “This isn’t about football. This is about something else.”


KU_Alumn_2000 11 years, 1 month ago

Dugan - That was the best article you have ever written...IMO.

When this all started...I hoped that it would all smooth itself out to where both Mangino and Perkins could remain colleagues at our university. The more this plays out...the more I'm beginning to see that Perkins has an agenda that stinks and may lack integrity. I don't know for sure if this is true...but I hope the NCAA is investigating Perkins.

Coach Mangino...keep sawing wood through the adversity partner !!!

CheDavy 11 years, 1 month ago

Lew Perkins seemingly has had it in for Mangino since he arrived at KU. I would encourage "Bear" to take a walk and head to South Bend where they'll have an opening next week.

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

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Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

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Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

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Roy Scherff 11 years, 1 month ago

As DeMarco said: This isn't about football, this is about something else. Very, very true.

phogthedog 11 years, 1 month ago

Lew Perkins fans...this debacle is your fault. How many of you sat through the Terry Allen era? The positive change in player behavior and player discipline was evident at Coach Mangion's first spring game. No one was complaining while we were winning. By airing cry-baby complaints in public, Lew has put in place a mechanism for removing a coach that he did not hire and who has been successful (in spite of his Athletic Director). Look at the support that Coach Mangino is receiving from other well respected, successful coaches. Doesn't this say something about the quality of our coach? Lew Perkins and our local sports talk radio know-nothings (and KU haters) have conspired to take down an individual who put KU football back on the map. Shame on all of you.

jahawkdave 11 years, 1 month ago

PhogDog- How is ku football on the map? Yes where we on the map the Orange bowl year, but what map are we on now? Everyone wants to give that 1 orange bowl year so much credit, and it was awesome and deserves credit. However, we have to admit it was somewhat of a fluke, would Mangino have beat Tex, TT or OU that year, his track record tells us no.

How about we give Mangino as much credit for this season as we do 2007? If we do then we must say Mangino has taken KU football completely off the map! How about we give him credit for losing 2 conference games for every 1 he wins. How about we give him credit for losing 5 games against the B12 south for every 1 he wins. Lastly let's give Mangino credit for this "debacle". All of these embarassing stories, rascist quotes, abusive temper are about Mangino, the HC of the last place Kansas Jayhawks, that's a map we don't want to be on!

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

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Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

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Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago


jahawkdave 11 years, 1 month ago

We are fans of KU not Lew Perkins. Some of us respect Lew and what he has done for this program, as we should. Some of us respect Mangino and what he has done for KUFB. I think we are all upset with all the turmoil that is happening now. None of us want to see KU losing and the public embarassment it has caused KU. Fact is Mangino at the center of this story. Is Lew to blame for making this public? We may never know but what do you do if you're Lew. Back a coach who makes inappropriate racist statements to his players? Back a coach of a last place team that was projected to compete for a North championship.

How would all of the Mangino fans feel if Reesing had not connected with Meier on that 4th down 4th Qtr pass vs mu last year. We were one pass away from being 6-6 possibly no bowl and finish the season on a multi-game losing streak.

If people are happy getting 3 nonconf cupcake wins, beating the lower level B12 teams and playing it mid level bowls, then shame on Lew for wanting something better. Mangino has made KUFB better than it was, but excluding 2007 not as good as it should and could be.

For those who say KUFB will be worse without Mangino, how can we be worse than LAST F'ing place???!!!

2009 is as terrible for kufb as 2007 was great.

Matt Bowers 11 years, 1 month ago

CaliHawk, like getting on posts and ripping people? Isn't that what you are upset at Mangino for? Not to mention that when you quote, you are using hear say and that is not admissible. Please mind the double standard of calling people "hillbillies" while you are screaming about racism. It takes away from your argument and makes you look like an amatuer.

Lew has not been forthcoming with information or open about his intentions. That is why so many people are making speculations about the future of our program. The timing happens to add to the drama as well.

Maybe we should try the approach of waiting for the facts after the dust has settled and see where everything lies. The only person who really knows the truth are the accusers and accused, even Lew doesn't know.

Rock Chalk

cdanielsfv 11 years, 1 month ago

What I find funny about everyone dissing Mangino is that there is no actual evidence at the moment other than someone's momma going to Lew Perkins. I have not heard any of you complaining over the last eight years until now. We had a horrible, embarassing, and somewhat disgraceful football team and Mangino changed that. You can call him fat, a hillbilly, and or a racist but the fact remains that he is a wonderful football coach.

What is sad to me is that we have now become like every other good football program in the country. At the first sign of a bad moment we fire our coach. We have become Nebraska and Notre Dame over night.

In the end if actual evidence does come out and there were lines crossed than Mangino deserves to be fired. However, no matter how you look at it we have treated a wonderful coach with a whole lot of disrespect. Lew Perkins has done a really terrible thing.

Bill Kackley 11 years, 1 month ago

Calihawk I have never read so much hogwash at one time in my life. It is easy to see you have a thing against overweight people and you don't know your a-- from a hole in the ground.

escaped_labrat 11 years, 1 month ago

Jayhawkdave and Calihawk33,

How old are you two, 18? You must not have lived through the Terry Allen years and judging by Calihawk33's command of the English language and lack of wisdom, I'd guess he's closer to 11 years old.

Joe Baker 11 years, 1 month ago

I have no problem losing a few games. I don't understand how a coach could lose so many in a row! How can you incur so many loses and not right the ship? I'm know ManG is a good football coach and I have no idea what Perkins' motives are, but I'm tired of losing in this fashion. I thought the program was shaping up and we'd at least have a fair year, live up to our hype and win the North. I thought we'd go to a bowl!

How do you go from the top to the bottom in one swift season without making some much needed changes? Why do we have so many nasty issues surrounding MM? Where does all this smoke come from?

I just want it all over and KU out of this nasty spotlight. Let's make a decision already and move forward.

I don't like losing and hate losing to certain teams. I would even allow some loses to certain teams, but not when you lose to teams you're expected to win. LP did not coach, call plays or even make personnel decisions to have your chosen team on the field.

LP has given MM much and if LP has an inside issue against MM, then you wouldn't see the changes made in the FB program. LP has thrown resources at MM to maintain the program MM has worked to build. LP has done his job and MM has done his job, both quite well.

Now it's evaluation time. Do we continue on the path of MM's program or do we go to the next level with a different coach? I doubt personal issues have anything to do with this mess. Let's let them do their jobs and allow this to take it's course. LP must be looking after the best interests of KU and MM will have to trust LP to do a job that will ultimately allow the program to move forward. I hope it's with MM. I'm willing to give him another year to redeem the program. I think this issue is beyond MM and LP is simply taking actions to address some critical issues. Yes, they are convenient under the circumstances. It will all pass and KU will have a coach one way or another.

James Hubin 11 years, 1 month ago

"He went off on me yelling, which is fine," Brown told The Associated Press. "I kept saying, 'Yes, sir, yes, sir,' to everything he was saying. A teammate asked me what happened. Then he started on me again and I said, 'Yes, sir,' and he said, 'Don't you 'yes sir' me. I'll send you back to St. Louis where you can get shot by your homies."'

It's certainly okay for Mangino to say that to his player in order to toughen him up for the game, the player is obviously being a pansie by saying "yes, sir". Mangino's weight problems have nothing to do with self discipline. Mangino's outbursts directed towards players and coaches have nothing to do with self control. And yes no matter how much Mangino shows a lack of self control, we expect those pansie arse players to control theirselves on the field, no outbursts that could pick us up a personal foul.

The great disappearing Mangino finally explained to his followers what the real problem is "I can't do the work of some parents, what they should have done before they got to me. And some of those guys are bitter. And some that's the problem. And I can't do anything about that." Finally the truth comes out that it's not Mangino at all, it's the pansies parents.

Why don't we just leave Mangino alone and let him do his job so these kids can be what they are destined to be. "He wanted to be a lawyer," Brown said in a telephone interview from his home in St. Louis. "He messed up, and Mangino said to his face, in front of everybody, `You want to be a lawyer? You're going to be an alcoholic just like your dad."'

Fields, speaking from his home in Lawrence, said he was present. "We all knew his father had a drinking problem," he said.

And Perkins, why is he doing his job? I can't believe he said, "I can confirm an internal review is under way," Perkins said in a quote released by the school. "It involves a personnel matter, and as a result, is confidential. It would be inappropriate for me to provide further information right now."

Mangino is the man and what Perkins said is inexcusable. Perkins keeps saying nothing in order to escalate the matter.

For all you people that didn't live through the TA era, watch out what you wish for. Do you honestly think that this university in all of its greatness is really going to attract a coach that can get four non-conference wins against the likes of North Carolina or Duke and win one conference game against a team with a quality coach like Iowa State? You must be kidding yourselves to think we can do better. Have you seen our facilities? Absolutely pathetic.

chicagoeddie 11 years, 1 month ago

lets just beat MU this week and call it a rough season. hopefuly we can make it to a bowl game...

Steve Brown 11 years, 1 month ago

Big 12 north is down this year. K-State, Col., Neb, even OU rebuilding and soft teams this season.

we had the pansey a$$ed schedule afterall.

we are in the cellar, the very bottom, last place, on the tail, ground floor.

Darn those parents who sent us kids unprepared.

written as I sip coffee from my Fed Ex Orange Bowl cup.

good morning Dr. Jeckyll.

Joe Baker 11 years, 1 month ago

lighthawk- LOL

Thanks for the laugh in such a tense situation.

KU will survive and I hope KU wins!

Fruity22 11 years, 1 month ago

What is Snyder, Stoops, and Leach's combined record against Mangino? Something like 12-1, of course they are coming to his defense they don't want him going anywhere.

floridajayhawks 11 years, 1 month ago

On November 17, FootballCoachScoop had BREAKING NEWS and FIRST TO REPORT that Athletic Director Lew Perkins was working on a buyout. Our sources confirmed that an announcement is coming very soon on Head Coach Mark Mangino that he will no longer be the Head Coach for the Jayhawks.
Our source close to the situation say AD Lew Perkins is going to talk with Randy Edsall (UConn Head Coach), Kirk Ferentz (Iowa Head Coach), Kevin Sumlin (Houston Head Coach), Brent Venables (Oklahoma Defensive Coordinator) and Butch Jones (Central Michigan Head Coach). Our sources have confirmed conversations with four coaches in regards to the Head job.

bunchball99 11 years, 1 month ago

No other coach in our "famed" football history has accomplished what Mark Mangino has done with our program. Do you think Oklahoma is calling for Stoops to be fired after a subpar seaason? After all what have they done in bowl games after Mark Mangino left them?

Nobody wants the team to be successful more than our coaches and players of this years squad. He has come close to defeating some of the powerhouse teams in our conference and has given us more bowl games than any other.

All of this ruckus wouldn't even be going on unless he was a little successful in changing the way all of the KU fans think about KU football. Do we really need to be reminded of all the saturdays that have come and gone and no one even knew if they were playing in town or not? How many times could you see them on T.V. (not including replays at 10:30). I remember seeing more oponents colors in the stands than our own. It doesn't appear to be the same anymore. Who changed all of that? We KU fans changed it of course for ever so obvious reasons. Both of the people we love to hate right now changed all of us into finally believing and hoping that KU football exists in a manner that we know it today.

We all want to be proud of our beloved Jayhawks.

But whether you want to admit it or not, Mark Mangino and Lew Perkins both have made believers out of all of us that we have a fine program. Haven't you been watching the last few years?

Demanding the best from our coach and his staff seems to be what we all are guilty of whether it is football or basketball. So why is it wrong for him to demand the best from his staff and players? Seems like we KU fans caused the problem because we finally get to enjoy KU football for a change. The only bad thing is we like winning too much.

After all that is why Wilt Chamberlain took so long to come back isn't it?

hawkone 11 years, 1 month ago

If you step back and look at the big picture in regards to our losses this year, one thing is visible. We had tons of injuries and we are playing with alot of young players. Much like 2006. Do you remember how many close games we had that season? How many we blew in 4th quarter? It was a tougher rotation on the schedule as well just like this season. Before this new broke, we were positioned well for the next two years of a softer schedule. Players will be older and more experienced next year and we have( or maybe had) the best recruiting class we have ever assembled. Unfortunately now we are all blowing in the wind waiting for the fall out because people can be so fickle over one season. The instant gratification society we live in today just plain sucks.

Maurice E. King III 11 years, 1 month ago

As a lifelong KU Fan I also applaud the work Mark Mangino has done to restore KU football to respectability. I cannot remember anytime in my adult life that the program has been at this level of stability. Continued facility upgrades, bowl games, and attendence records, all point to progress.  Teams that win have one thing in common; they expect to win. KU Football has reached that level where we expect to win, and when we don't, someone has to pay the price.  Coach Mangino's alleged player abuse is inexcusible if it is true.  I'm sure it is exaggerated. The bottom line is this team has not performed up to expectations at a school that is notoriious for low expectations. KU Fans don't let those outside the program define what our program should be. The rest of the Big 12 coaches that are singing Mangino's praises will be negatively recruiting against him at the same time.  KU needs to make a change because its good for KU Football. Coach Mangino got us to this level.  The question is can he get us to the level we want to be?  Does he have a plan to get us there?  Coach Mangino has not convinced me he is willing to reassess his behavior or any willingness to work with his boss to fix the problems on and off the field.  True KU Fans expect to beat Mizzou Saturday!!

coolhand357 11 years, 1 month ago

To Jayhawkdave and Calihawk33: Your comments sicken me.

I am a Jayhawker to the core, born and raised, crimson and blue blood. I despise Missouri as descendants of a small group of A**holes who continue to try to burn Lawrence with offensive rhetoric. If you are not one of them, you should join them.

Mangino did in fact put Kansas Football on the map. Year after year, not many Jayhawk fans even knew the names of so many players, let alone on a national level, even Heisman talk. Win or lose, the athletes Mangino recruited remain in the national spotlight regardless of all other factors. That alone has put Kansas Football on the map. True Jayhawk fans have some friendly advice for you and your buddys: Go back across the border and shut the fk up! I'm sure there enough of us here that would enjoy giving you a quick escort.

troutsee 11 years, 1 month ago

Look, guys, MM has had 8 years, 8 years!!!!!.....and only has a winning percentage against two B12 teams, ISU and MU, and the latter will probably change this weekend. We have really played a cupcake non-conference schedule since he has been here. So, four of the wins each year are automatic or should be (South Florida excluded). Then we need two wins against the also rans of the B12 to become bowl eligible in an era when there are umteen thousand bowl games and much easier to become bowl eligible.

I continue to say, Rivals has ranked our recruiting classes as consistently being top 40 for the last several years. Where in the heck are the results of this superior recruiting? Are the poor results in B12 play the fault of the players? the fans? or perhaps the coaching? I say it is the latter. I am not willing to cut MM any slack. And he is not the best coach we have ever had. Look at the support he has had. No other football coach in KU history has had this much support from the administration. Look what Glen Mason did with a peanut football budget and the football offices in Allen Field house! And I was around for the TA years, in fact, I have been around for a lot of the seasons. TA's winning B12 percentage...37%....MM 37% (quoting from a former poster. I did not check this out).

I think new recruits know that our administration is taking football very, very seriously, as is evidenced by the much improved facilities, the renewed interest in FB, and the full support of KU administration. However, I think the new recruits are not blind or deaf. Unfortunately, most of our games have been on TV this year, and frankly, we have looked rag-tag and not well coached. Particularly distressing, has been the loss of control of the line of scrimmage. What I saw in the Chiefs' win last Sunday was guts, determination, toughness, and a team that was playing for their coach. Not so with KU football. If you throw out the last second win over MU last year, the 2008 campaign was not exactly thrilling either.

Finally, some of you have denigrated posters who have pointed out the obvious lack of self-dicipline from MM as evidenced by his temper tantrums and his morbid obesity. This will not do for the poster boy of KU FB. Like it or not, call everyone who points out this obvious fact as prejudicial, his physique does not go unnoticed and is a source of ridicule for the university. Fair or not fair, that is the way it is.

Agree with you, Jahawkdave.

jhokfan 11 years, 1 month ago


If you are disappointed over unmet expectations it is only because we have a coach who has given us reason to have higher expectations. This season prior to the Mangino era would be par for the course.

I wouldn’t be so quick to label 2007 as a fluke. I believe we would have beaten TT and TU in 2007. Another 2 minutes and we beat Missouri. That was a good team and no matter how this soap opera plays out I am not going to throw that season under the bus.

coolhand357 11 years, 1 month ago

The way in which this has been handled is deplorable. Regardless of how this turns out, it is a black eye to our beloved university. The person that has control over it is the only one that can be held responsible for such childish behavior. Say goodbye to the athletes that may have committed to KU. Say goodbye to national TV coverage and welcome back the same old mediocrity. What you sow is what you reap. Thanks for yanking the seeds out of the ground Lew. And good luck finding anyone of Mangino's recruiting capability that remotely wants to come to Kansas, especially with an AD that acts like a back-stabbing underhanded child. All division 1 coaches are turning thier backs on KU because of what Lew is doing. Why do you think Div.1 coaches are backing Mangino? Because none of them want to be treated like that! As I said... good luck finding a high level coach that condones this behavior. It was fun while it lasted.

Wichihawk1 11 years, 1 month ago

Witch hunt pure and simple. Whether this is the result of KU fans developing seriously unfounded program expectations or Perkins finally seizing upon the first viable opportunity to boot Mangino and get "his guy," the situation is sad and is a poor reflection on our university. I hope everyone remembers the pre-Mangino years well (and I'm not talking about those few with Mason) because that is where we're headed for the foreseeable future. Recruiting will be down the toilet for several years regardless of what happens.

troutsee 11 years, 1 month ago

Wichihawk--depends on who the new coach turns out to be. I am not a doom and gloomer. I think we will be fine, in fact, we will be better in the long run. Most recruits will wait to see who we bring in.

coolhand357 11 years, 1 month ago

troutsee - obviously you are not taking into account the previos posts. Div. 1 coaches are soured on KU because of the way things are being handled by our AD. What part of that do you not understand?

cstewa04 11 years, 1 month ago

BAN WHB810 Sports & Kevin Kietzman from your radio and tell your friends/colleagues!!!

Everyone in KC who's listened to Kevin Kietzman's "Between the Lines" radio show knows that he has run a smear campaign filled with personal attacks on Coach Mangino. Now he says that he's always known what a "terrible" person coach is from personal unidentified sources. Just lies to drive listeners and help sell advertising. It's up to KU alum in KC to not support Kevin Kietzman or his negative campaign. Let the internal process play itself out...In-house! Rock Chalk!

James Hubin 11 years, 1 month ago

Mangino is not responsible for KU being on TV more often. The entire Big 12 is on TV more often, including Baylor. College football in general is much more televised because there are more channels to broadcast college sports. I think getting spanked on national TV weekly is at least as embarrassing as this whole fiasco.

There are also alot more meaningless bowl games then there ever used to be, maybe if Mangino can just get us into another pointless bowl game, we can stay mediocre forever under the Big Guy. Except, nobody wants to play for Mangino because if he finds out you have had a troubled past, he will use it to verbally abuse you.

It is hilarious that all these people are so concerned that we may take a step back into the TA era when, as troutsee pointed out, Terry Allen won 37% of his games against Big 12 opponents and the almighty Mangino won 37% of his games against Big 12 opponents. How do you argue with that little nugget of info?

Fred Davis 11 years, 1 month ago

It's great how the Pro-Mangino crowd can voice its opinions on how rotten Lew Perkins must be for wanting to fire Mangino, but when somebody voices that maybe the Mangino era had run its course, they get lambasted with profanity and chastised for not being "real Jayhawk fans."

Give me a break.

No one worth his or her salt will dispute that Mark Mangino has improved Kansas football. It's clear. But when you really look at the numbers, Mangino can hang his hat on one really good season and a bunch of mediocrity, which unfortunately, when your program has been as bad as KU's under the Terry Allen years, mediocrity is an improvement. But the question is - at what point do you tire of mediocrity and aspire to be great? Because KU has not been great - and I'd argue that 2007 wasn't even a great year when you consider they couldn't even win their own division. Good year, you bet, and one of the best in KU history, but if KU is going to compete, and that seems to be the point most people are missing when talking about Mangino - he's not going to consistently win big games and has done nothing in eight years to prove otherwise. This is his program, these are his players, what else is there to defend?

And quit giving me this tired excuse of, this is Kansas, we're not a football school... See, that's the problem with alleged Kansas football fans, whining too much about the past and what KU isn't. I'll tell you what KU isn't - a perennial contender for the Big 12 North - How 'bout that? Missouri, the school that everybody loves to compare KU to, has won seven games, played UT, played OSU, lost a ton of playmakers on both sides of the ball and yet they still managed to scrape together seven wins with a possible number eight against KU on Saturday... It's unfortunate that Mangino's name is getting dragged in the mud for all of this, but his time had run its course anyway before all this came to light. KU football doesn't begin and end with Mark Mangino, but KU football fans can take solace knowing he left the program in better shape than he found it.

coolhand357 11 years, 1 month ago

Kevin Kietzman is probably a Lawrence burning MISSOURI alumni, like some of the posters on here. What better timing than before the border war?

(saidtoomuch) "Mangino is not responsible for KU being on TV more often."

ABC had high expectations just like the rest of the fans and they were televised many more times than Nebraska, which is a FIRST for KU. KU's offense was FUN to watch compared to Nebraska. It's all about RATINGS, not winning percentages. You obviosly don't get it. Comparing Mangino's winning percentage to TA's reign???? Really???? It is national EXPOSURE on a NATIONAL level that brings in recruits. What did Terry Allen do on a national level? Go back to Missouri. You are fulla crap.

Bill Kackley 11 years, 1 month ago

Who ever the new coach will be, I expect, no worse than a 9-3 season. Mangino has a talented group of youngsters in the program. He will not becoming into a bare bones situation as was left by Terry (no discipline) Allen. After that he might have trouble recruiting because recruiting to Kansas is not like recruiting to a Texas school. I have no doubt that Mark Magino must go because of the way Lew Perkins has screwed him up. He wouldn't have a chance here. I hope he gets a job somewhere that plays KU and beats the hell out of us as payback for the lousy way he has been treated by Lew and so many fans here. The complaints about his weight make me sick. There are people out their that have weight problems that are not related to overeating. Do you FAT mongers know for sure MM is not one of those people. I love KU, as much as anyone posting here and more than most, but I also strongly believe is fair play and a sense of honor and many of you, along with Lew, have no honor, only shame.

d_prowess 11 years, 1 month ago

Here are some great comments from Mack Brown at Texas that I think illustrate the possible differences between many "hard" coaches and Mangino. The comments from former players make it seem like Mangino never does the follow up with players that Brown talks about...

Steve Brown 11 years, 1 month ago

kackley you are so funny, and I"m not amused. I get it, next year say we do go 9-3 or 8-4 you will saying look how geat MM kids played, he's a fine recruiter and would have done even better with coaching these kids. Others will say look what MM could have done if he had given them confidence, quit abusing them and unclipped their wings.

You hope he gets a job and beats us, are you serious and so you rooted for good ole' Roy against us in final four also?

Cr@@p, it just hit me, this Lew v. Mangino bickering is going to go on another 18 months, stop the madness, stop the madness.

I do NOT support Lew I do NOT support Coach

I do support KANSAS!

I"m going to let the panel, the investigation, the chancellor, the agents and lawyers on both sides sort this out as I don't have the facts and in reality I don't have another choice. Glad all you other folks on both sides of the line do have the facts and answers.

let's beat the tigers.

11 years, 1 month ago

His sister played softball at MU.

coolhand357 11 years, 1 month ago

So Kietzman is a Lawrence burning K-State alum. Not much difference, but noteworthy. Missouri must die.

James Hubin 11 years, 1 month ago

Coolhand357, you may be an idiot, but you are still a KU fan. Everyone on this board is passionate in their own opinion but differences of opinion doesn't make one person on here a fan, while everyone else should head back to misery. I'll have you know that I have lived in the state of Kansas for over thirty years now, so quit calling everyone that doesn't agree with ignorant opinion a missouri fan.

If you, Coolhand357, actually knew any of the history of Bleeding Kansas, you would know that Lawrence was burned because the people of NE Kansas had a difference of opinion from what the people of misery wanted, so they raided Lawrence and burned it down. Even attempting to compare the mangino debacle to bleeding kansas shows your ignorance of the importance of the two issues.

Tony Bandle 11 years, 1 month ago

What I find most intriguing is the absolute passion that has ignited on both sides of the issue.

This is Kansas football we are talking about, you know, the sport we used to practice cheering through before basketball season started. The athletic step-child mostly ignored by all. The tickets we bought because they came with the basketball tickets.

Isn't this uproar a true sign of a fanbase caring deeply for a sport which historically has been second fiddle? And that is the true tragedy of this conflict because the two people most responsible for this renaissance are the same two people caught in the middle of this hurricane.

No matter how this ends, it won't end well for Kansas football which ironically is what we all care about the most!!

Maurice E. King III 11 years, 1 month ago

KU can get as good as or better coach than Mangino. The program is in far better shape today than when he took over and the pay is excellent. My vote is for Turner Gill.

James Hubin 11 years, 1 month ago

Venables or Sumlin would bring some of that OU winning attitude to KU, something that we seem to be lacking right now.

Maurice E. King III 11 years, 1 month ago

KU Athletics Course 101 : Keeping Your Job

Requirements: 1. Win 2. Get along with your boss. (Lew Perkins) The same Lew Perkins who gave you a huge raise in pay before the 2007 season when everyone thought he was crazy.

coolhand357 11 years, 1 month ago

saidtoomuch - "Even attempting to compare the mangino debacle to bleeding kansas shows your ignorance of the importance of the two issues."

Obviosly you, saidtoomuch, are lacking in perception skills.. although you mean well. Where on earth did anyone (including me) attempt to compare or make a reference between the two? Yes, you are also a KU fan, but you are a confusing one. And a nice idiot, too. I also feel we spend more than enough time bickering about things we can't change. Now, why don't we all get together and BLAST Missouri out of Arrowhead?

James Hubin 11 years, 1 month ago

Sounds better than telling everyone that doesn't agree with you to head to misery.

Cal Bender 11 years, 1 month ago

I had the great privilege of playing under Coaches J.V. Sikes, Fambrough, Replogle, Kinsey, and others. M playing time was sparce, but now, almost 60 years later, I cherish every minute I spent on the practice field and sideline. Coach Fambrough was my freshman team head coach and we both moved to the varsity team the following year when he was promoted to be the defensive line coach. I have great memories of those years, including Coach Sike's tirades on the field. How many times, probably on a daily basis, he threatened one of us with "you don't run, you don't block, why, I oughts grab you by the (gonads) and twist'm off!" There was the time Chancellor Clark Wescoe attended practice, accompanied by a couple of ladies. Coach Sikes went into one of his tirades. Rumor had it that the Chancellor later had a meeting with Coach Sikes. During the next day of practice Coach Sikes evoked a hearty round of laughter when he started out on one of his tirades, but caught himself, with " you don't run, you don't block, why, I oughta, . . . I oughta . . . well, damn't, you know what I oughta do to you!", with a big smile on his face. We loved our coaches, and they loved us, as Coach Fambrough still does. They believed in tough love, but they loved us. They provided us with lessons in life that have served us well for nearly 60 years. I spoke with Coach Fambrough this week, again, and he is always happy to hear from a player, and he talks to me as though I was one of the stars on the team, such as Charlie Hoag, Ollie Spencer, Mike McCormac, Galen Fiss, Bob Hantla, Jerry Robertson, George MrConick, and many others. I can only hope that this fiasco concerning Coach Mangino will be put to rest, all will be forgiven, and these seniors, and others, keep their memories of playing for him and for KU, and that 50 years from now they will be able to reflect on these days as some of the happiest, most meaningful, and educational days of their lives. Coach Mangino has done a great job of building our football program. Let's put all this turmoil behind us and move on to bring our program to an even higher level. Go Jayhawks! Beat Mizzou!

James Hubin 11 years, 1 month ago

I just thought you said something about Lawrence burning, I must have just perceived that.

jhokfan 11 years, 1 month ago

I like both Mark and Lew and think they have both been good for us. If that places my loyalty in question by any KU fan, I can live with it. I do find it ironic when someone bashes Mangino for his verbal abuse and concludes their comment with a derogatory fat statement.

coolhand357 11 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, I said Kevin Kietzman is probably a Lawrence burning Missouri alumni. mikeowens (anonymous) informed me that...Kietzman is a K-State alum. It might also be my evil looking John Brown avatar. I'm just hoping to fire up everyone for the Misery game. Sometimes the passion gets to a boiling point. No doubt there are a lot of frustrated KU fans on here. I am definitely one of them. I hereby apologise if I have offended anyone... unless you are a Misery fan. Then... you have my permission to burn in hell. But only until lightly charred.

James Hubin 11 years, 1 month ago

jhokfan is correct, it does somewhat degrade the argument that Mangino verbally abused his players, when a poster turns around and calls him fat (which I am guilty of several times over). However, calling someone fat is not in line with telling a player that he is going to end up like his alcoholic father or telling a player after a family member has been shot that he is going to end up back with his homies so he can get shot.

On second thought, I like your passion, coolhand357.

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

Kackley- shut ur pie hole. fill it with more pie, I'm sure you already are.

Two wrongs don't make a right..I'm guilty of "crossing the line" on mangino in my above post...because I brought up weight, and not his record...oh wait no, I did say it was about performance as well as the team not wanting to play for him, ala Reesing wanting to pooch punt on 3rd down on the 1st set of downs to prove a point to the big man when we were 5-1 vs OU...

but when he does it, its okay because he's such a winner... (It is hilarious that all these people are so concerned that we may take a step back into the TA era when, as troutsee pointed out, Terry Allen won 37% of his games against Big 12 opponents and the almighty Mangino won 37% of his games against Big 12 opponents. How do you argue with that little nugget of info?)

What did he do for you? Make you feel good about your weight?

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

Obviously. Wouldn't want a black guy like coach Terry Allen in charge. If he wins 37% of his conference games he's a LOSER! But if white Mangino wins 37% of his conference games he "turned around the program".

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

Go be racist and eat more...cuz that is all you do.

Reminds me of 50 cent for ghetto society- just setting people back 15 years at a time.

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

Open your eyelids if the fat doesn't get in the way. Oh sorry did I hurt one of you "wimps" feelings...maybe you shouldn't be talking football then... cuz you all think getting poked in the chest is wimpy too...

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

the first ones to comment on being offended by being called fat, are the first ones that called Arist Wright a wimp for reporting Mangino... Oh the hypocrisy! Thats not rediculous, that is ludacris.

coolhand357 11 years, 1 month ago

CalBender - Thanks for taking the time to post your story on here. Enjoyed it! None of us would like better than to put the tumoil behind us. The best way to start is to literally kick Misery's ass back to Missouri. Wait... Arrowhead IS in Missouri.. So we kick thier miserable asses back to Columbia. Arrowhead was good to us last year, and I think our guys will be very, very hungry for a season ending victory... especially in the Border War. Pump it up Baby! Its war time!!!

bunchball99 11 years, 1 month ago

Bottom line is nobody would be bickering if we didn't expect to win. You gotta love the hunger of KU fans for wanting to shine in the light. The Mason era was not a Big 12 schedule.

But nobody would be talking and fighting over a program that wasn't expected to rise from the ashes and flourish..........

Isn't it wonderful that nobody wants to go back to watching the likes of all other conference teams coming here and running over us as if we were NAIA. At least we can agree on that.

jhokfan 11 years, 1 month ago


You no doubt have a lot of passion for KU sports and I can appreciate that. I hope you are that guy a Memorial screaming his guts out trying to create a home field advantage for the Jayhawks. Try to put things in perspective. We're all disappointed, we all want what's best for KU, and no matter what our opinions are, at the end of the day we are all on the same side.

It's just football. A billion Chinese could care less.

coolhand357 11 years, 1 month ago

ok CaliHawk33... what do you want to post on here that can be interpreted as somewhat productive for KU?

jahawkdave 11 years, 1 month ago

Me-di-o-cre -adjective -of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.

Coolhand - So we are going to be mediocre if we fire Mangino? what are we currently?

What has Mangino been?:

2002 2-10, 0-8 conf AWFUL overall AWFUL conf (I agree this is not Mangino's fault and shouldn't count)

2003 6-7, 3-5 conf AVERAGE overall MEDIOCRE conf (Bowl game for KU in his second year, I say great job)

2004 4-7, 2-6 conf POOR overall POOR conf (yes we got robbed against Tex)

2005 7-5 3-5 conf GOOD overall MEDIOCRE conf (another overall good not great season for KU)

2006 6-6, 3-5 conf MEDIOCRE overall MEDIOCRE conf (Bowl eligible but no bowl = very mediocre season)

2007 12-1, 7-1 conf EXCELLENT and EXCELLENT (saying fluke earlier was wrong on my part, this was a well coached disciplened team, we must admit the stars were aligned on the schedule)

2008 8-5, 4-4 conf GOOD overall and ABOVE AVERAGE conf (on the verge of 6-6 but pull out a great win against mu and a nice bowl victory, many would say very nice season for KU, I would agree but acknowledge this was below expectations for this team)

2009 6-6, 2-5 conf after we beat mu VERY MEDIOCRE overall TERRIBLE conf (poor play and poor coaching, I don't think anyone can dispute that)

If you throw out Mangino's worst year and throw out his best year, and count mu 2009 as a win.

37-36 overall 17-31 conf MEDIOCRE overall POOR conf.

This is the top 20 paid Coach in the NATION! We have top tier football facilities. But Mangino is suppose to get a pass because we are KU, he followed TA, he won an Orange Bowl and throw in Fort Worth and Insight Bowl wins. Whoop-D-F'ing-DOO

I'm not a fan and I'm from Missery because I want a football program thats better than beating cream puffs, a below .500 conf. record, and reading and hearing our head coach's pathetic quotes over and over and over, causing national embarassement.

I'm not defending Lew or trying to bash those supporting Mangino, but does anyone really think Lew is out there getting all these former players to publicly bash (with MM's own quotes) there former coach, or giving the radio personalities and journalists all the negative stories to tell and write, did he tell Wilbon to call the Mangino Quotes racist on ESPN's PTI?

This isn't about Lew v MM it's about what's best for KUFB. Many of you think Mangino is the best KUFB can do and, we should be thrilled with 8-5's 4-4's. I simply disagree I think the non conf schedule is mediocre and I think our conf. record is very mediocre. I think it's worth the risk to bring a Head coach who can be both a quality person, demand the most out of his players and earn their respect. With what KU can pay and the facilities we have, we can and will be much much better than mediocre.

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

Cdaniels- Mangino = Terry Allen, no more no less. Both former KU coaches...

And this is all formality. The decision has been made they are now just looking for the ending formalities to fire him with just cause essentially giving him 0$ severance instead of 6 million!

It's real real naaaace (use hick accent) that you Kansas folk have decided to back Mangino...but.........

it will make any player that has any type of hood background severely question going to KU even after Mangino the way KU fans reacted to this.

They still wanted him after he treats his players like absolute garbage? Mind you this is after he has the same winning percentage as Terry Allen in conference?

AND He brought in more talent than Terry Allen and couldn't win more than him (in conference)?

AND on top of his he brings up socioeconomic hardship (-ya escapedlabrat even tho im sure you had to look this one up i'm 4 years old actually!-and a KU graduate with honors- more accolades in 4 years than the history of you and yourr family!... good one! you got me! I'm gonna go and cry now!-good try buddy I'm a shock jockey I can do this all day...and get paid handsomely but thats a different story) like alcoholism, shootings of family after a player says "yes sir?"...

From an outsiders view... the fans backing Mangino that have ANY sort of bitter sentiment towards Terry Allen all seem very very racist at this point. You can't give a reason that he's done anything better than a complete fluke 2007 season, ya ya ya I know what you Manginoleaches are gonna say...Well whatever because Allen had his 10-2 year also...and we beat texas that year!

We have never beaten Texas, Ou, or Texas Tech in 8 full say this thing is turned around more than Terry Allen? Statistically without question, that is an argument in itself...

Sure we make bowl games under Mangino... but everyone that is 6-6 now makes a bowl...Allen's team would have if every 6-6 team made a bowl then too..

We're in last place with the most talented team we are gonna ever have under this clown...this right here is as good as it gets (for him- nobody is coming here to play for this huge clown next year), last place for Mangino and his supporters

...makes me sick for kids getting their families ripped on for "motivation"...

ya I harbor nasty sentiment for this statement as I was robbed and shot in the stomach and thigh in 2007 and left to some thugs wanting into a gang...if anyone told my brother that after I was shot, and (I was supposed to die) I guarantee he, or you, or ANYONE YOU KNOW would not take that as motivation...THAT IS A HUMAN LIFE.

That is just uncalled for and demands firing with just cause. Take a hike, Mangino, you need it!

coolhand357 11 years, 1 month ago

jayhawkdave - "I think it's worth the risk to bring a Head coach who can be both a quality person, demand the most out of his players and earn their respect."

So you think we can go out and nab up a coach like that, and one that can ALSO recruit after the way things have been handled? The article at the top of the page shows that Mangino has the support of his piers. That is mainly because they think he has been treated unfairly. If you mention getting someone of the calebre qualitys mentioned above, would he not have reservations about coming to Kansas and work for Lew in light of the drerary way things were handled? I don't think any Div.1 coach would want to work while watching his back constantly. He would have a tough time being able to contribute success and fire to a program under those circumstances. The problem? - What successful winning coach is willing to overlook one of his piers being treated like that, and blindly come into a flawed KU program over other programs that didn't have this fiasco?

"With what KU can pay and the facilities we have, we can and will be much much better than mediocre."

I agree with the pay, and I agree the facilities have improved. But in reality, we are competing with places like Memorial Stadium in Nebraska or Texas for recruiting. People that have been there know what I am talking about. Our facilities are not even close by comparison, yet ware are in direct competition. They continually land the 4 and 5 star recruits because of it. We land the 3 star. Its a fact. What makes you think we will be better off with a new coach after this hatchet job?

bunchball99 11 years, 1 month ago

KU offers what KU has. This is not sunny Caifornia or Florida or any other year round sun filled school. Recruiting the top tier players to come here isn't as easy because they don't play in the likes of an Allen Fieldhouse or any other arena. Those sunny schools are ever so inviting to 5 star recruits. We at best will live on the 2 or 3 star athletes. If we get our fair share of these, it could make us a bit happy I am sure and hopefully our coaching staff is capable of developing good talent.

If I were in the business KU would be a mear stepping stone to a finer job. Is it possible to say our head coaching job is valid enough to shake a good coach from the limbs of another good program? I would love to think so, but it never has been. So with this being said, and Notre Dame unable to even get a good one, our options appear bleaque at best.

We should really be careful what we wish for.

Go Blue!!

James Hubin 11 years, 1 month ago

It's about time to say that we are all going to have to agree to disagree on this one. The good part for me is that it looks like Mangino is as good as gone and I have faith someone can take the reins to get us five wins next year, at that point this whole argument will be for not. Anyway gonna be out in Western Kansas for Turkey Day, I'm pretty sure internet hasn't made its way out there yet (kidding), so I won't be able to post till next week, after KU kicks mizzery's sorry inbred A$$'s back to columbia. Happy Thanks Giving (even to those that support Mangino, insert weight joke here).

coolhand357 11 years, 1 month ago

Have a good one saidtoomuch! I grew up in northwest KS (HIll City).. and I'm not sure if the internet made it out there... but I know there are wild turkeys!

We're all in this together KU brothers... and we all have passion for the game. Let's kick the livin' sh*t out of Mizzou!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill Kackley 11 years, 1 month ago

Lighthawk you obviously missed the main point of my post. I really don't want Mangino to beat us. I just think it's a shame people like you don't understand being fair and doing the honorable thing. Calihawk33 What makes you think I'm overwight, well I am a little but I am taller than Lew and weight less than Lew. What is this question about a black coach like Allen. In case you don't know it he wasn't black and even if he was that would be irrelevant. Your tirades against overweight people are sickening.

actorman 11 years, 1 month ago

"What I find funny about everyone dissing Mangino is that there is no actual evidence at the moment other than someone's momma going to Lew Perkins."

YOU might not think there's any evidence, but those of us who have actually talked to players and former players know better. Ask ANYONE who has known someone on the team the last few years and they can GUARANTEE you that most if not all of the things you're hearing are true.

Besides, as I mentioned in another post, I find it fascinating that virtually no one is mentioning the fact that Mangino's tirades are not aimed just at players. As bad as the abuse towards players has been, at least players expect a certain amount of tirades when they sign up. On the other hand, students who give out parking tickets do not expect to be threatened by a large man (and I use the term "large" only to emphasize how intimidating the situation could be, not as a slight on MM's weight). Also keep in mind that these are only the things we're HEARING about. God knows what other abuse MM has subjected players and others to.

But for you defenders of MM, feel free to put all of that aside and just focus on his record. As troutsee did such a great job of showing us, other than the one fluke season there has been virtually no difference between MM and TA. And MM has been provided with FAR more support from the athletic department than TA ever had. But of course never let facts get in the way of knee-jerk arguments.

I think the situation could have been handled a little better. But even there, most people are ranting out of their a**es and not actually looking at the specifics. Saidtoomuch did a great job (ROFL, by the way) in showing what Lew has actually said and done in the situation. To the numerous critics of Lew, I ask you what exactly he has done wrong here. And please try something new this time and actually go by the facts, not just your emotions.

One thing I will agree on, though: we all certainly love our 'Hawks and dream of/long for the days when we can win consistently AND have a football coach that exhibits the class and character of a Bill Self.

jhokfan 11 years, 1 month ago

From this moment on I will exert all my energy on the transmission of positive vibes to our football team and will speculate no longer on how this soap opera will play out.

Let’s just beat Missouri and call it a season.

Doug Aitken 11 years, 1 month ago

Mangino can and should hold on to his job, but what would be wrong with him looking in the mirror and finding ways to improve his approach? Giant egos seem to want to be "right" without having to admit they were even partially wrong. Sorry, Mark, you're wrong in a lot of ways. That doesn't mean you can't be a tough football coach. Try being a decent human being, too.

Bill Kackley 11 years, 1 month ago

actorman if you were here during the Terry Allen years and the Mark Mangino years, how can you in all good conscious state there was virtually no difference. Oh, my God there has been a world of difference. And one thing I have been wanting to mention for all those who denegrate the football scdeuling of cream puffs, look at the basketball schedule, powerhouses like Hofstra, Central Arkansas, Oakland, Tennesse Tech, Alcorn State, La Salle, Radford, Belmont, Temple and Cornell. Wow 10 cream puffs

Tony Bandle 11 years, 1 month ago

Did any of Coach Mangino's colleagues coming to his defense actually play for him.....???...just wondr'in.

Dale Kroening 11 years, 1 month ago

Kackley do you pay attention at all to college BB ? Look at MSU, UNC, Cuse, Duke, UK etc, etc.. All the the so called top teams have many "creampuffs" on their early season SCHEDULES. You cant compare it to football. Plus you cant get a lot of the top teams to come and play at AFH. Another thing is they play a lot more games in BB than they do FB. And also would mention Hofstra almost beat Syracuse, who beat UNC, who we beat by 36 with the scrubs coming in with more than 5 minutes left in the game.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 1 month ago

I think it's time to show Lew Perkins the door.

Jim Sanders 11 years, 1 month ago

Winning takes time. To win at Kansas is always going to be tough. Is it odd that the top teams always reside from the biggest highschool football states? Texas, California, and Florida. I'd like to see Boise State play in the big 12. Hawkins found out what the competition is like. Yeah, anyone can beat a team or surprise someone once with a bunch of gadget plays. To win and be competative is a huge thing for me. I remember sitting at KU games as losing by 50 points everygame. What Mangino has done is awesome. Each year, he gets better talent. This year sucked, but look at OU. They were supposed to win the national title and oops. Granted the lost their QB but their backup was pretty highly rated and what is the excuse for the leagues best defense getting smashed at TT. Anyways, that is why they play the games.

With Mangino, we will be better off than when we bring in some assistant coach with no experience for more learning on the job. If we think Lew is going to land us someone we've all heard of, your crazy.

jahawkdave 11 years, 1 month ago

Coolhand, I can give you 2.5 million reasons we can.

troutsee 11 years, 1 month ago

Actorman, see "Wright's Role Clarified."

Steve Brown 11 years, 1 month ago

Kackley- this is what you posted. I hope he gets a job somewhere that plays KU and beats the hell out of us as payback for the lousy way he has been treated by Lew and so many fans here.

Thanks for clarifying that you meant to say, "It would be poetic justice IF MM got a job, etc. etc. etc. and yet I don't hope for it to happen."

Then you say "I'm not fair." Likely true, yet you are blind. I'm prejudiced by our cellar record, if we had won the north division I admit I would have been more 'fair' & as blind loyal as you to coach.

Truth is I'm awaiting the panel report to make final evaluation for my part, willing to be wrong. Also I admit I have spoken with some non athletes in Lawrence that have been target of MM wrath & their accounts have me a bit bias.

I do pray we get to see the L Williams report. If so, hope you read it. My fear is that it will be kept under wraps as part of some buy out agreement. Hope a freedom of documents law makes it public knowledge. Likely not in MM interest to have it revealed, so I fear we'll have a negotiated departure before its publication.

What I can't reckon is Lew's leverage point better to reveal or keep under wraps the report when complete. It will affect his ability with donors, future coaches, fan support, seems not clear whether he will want it revealed or leaked. The one good benefit is that MM can't torch KU or Lew in his departure like Ron Prince or he'll have hell in getting next position.

PS For you Leach comment supporters, if Iyou ere coach at Baylor, TTech A&M and wanted MM recruits wouldn't you launch into MM praise as well. If true that Leach likes Mark M. will he offer him an assistant job on the Tech staff....ha ha we all know that answer. He wants Mark's recruits not him on the Tech staff, wake up, some of you are brilliant.

beebe1 11 years, 1 month ago

To me, you all missed the point. Our talent is very good -- better than ever.
But the coaching was horrendous on Defense and Special Teams. It has taken MM two years to figure it out. The solution should have been a Perkins/Mangino conference at the end of the season. Tell him he is short sighted in those areas. Shape up or ship out by hiring some exceptionally competent Defensive Coordinator and a Special Teams coach. There aren't a lot of them around -- ie find a guy in one of the coaching areas of the teams that have zero losses, or maybe a one or two loss team, if they are ranked in the top 25!

The way we are going, we'll have to start over from scratch, and we are no better off than when Allen left the job!

actorman 11 years, 1 month ago

Kackley - I well remember the TA years. I've been a KU fan since the mid-'70s and experienced the Bob Valesente years as well, and so many other disappointing/frustrating years I can't even come close to remembering them all. How many years have you been following the team? The fact is that even as bad as some of the other coaches have been (especially in the recruiting department), I can't ever remember seeing a coach make as many strange and inexplicable decisions with the game on the line. Yes, it all worked out magically in '07. But every other year KU's either been at the bottom as expected or has finished well below expectations. I wouldn't call a success rate of one year out of eight much of a record to be proud of. Yes, we made a few minor bowl games. But that's part of what's so frustrating about MM: he's a good recruiter, a good talent evaluator and good at switching players to positions where they can make great contributions. But he wrecks all of those wonderful qualities with his play-calling, his incomprehensible crunch-time decisions, and his bullying personality.

As for KU's "creampuff" basketball schedule, there is simply no comparison. In football, we NEVER play a non-conference team that isn't mediocre or worse. In basketball we have our share of "directional schools," as all top teams do. But we also consistently have several games against big-time schools, and in fact KU's basketball schedule is almost always ranked as one of the 20 (if not 10) toughest in the country.

JWliddell, I can understand your point of view about my "fluke" comment, and perhaps I need to clarify. I think I somewhat explained it in the first paragraph here, but to expand further: MM clearly did a lot of things right that year, like switching Joe Mortensen to middle linebacker, having Aqib play primarily on defense, etc. We also had tremendous luck, as we had the soft schedule against the south that year and--from what I can remember--we didn't have a single major injury, which is pretty amazing. On top of that, a number of players had their best seasons at once. Combine all of that and it made for one truly magical season, the greatest in the modern history of KU football. But in a way that proves my point even MORE. The fact that even if you include that 12-1 season and all the accompanying breaks that we got, MM has virtually the same record as TA--with far more support from the athletic department and far better talent at his disposal, tells you that he is simply not a good coach when it comes to making gametime decisions. And of course if you combine it with how incredibly abusive he is to both players and others, there is only one choice that can be made. The sooner he goes, the better.

Prophet 11 years, 1 month ago

Chancellor! We have a cancer! Consider the problems that LP and MM have brought to this school by too light and too heavy responses" If you don't make the appropriate surgical incisions and removal Self and the BB program are at risk.

actorman 11 years, 1 month ago

Jimhawks, you provide another example of someone who is going by emotions and not by facts. There is absolutely NO reason to believe that we will end up with an assistant coach who doesn't have any head-coaching experience. With our upgrades, we have among the best facilities in the country, and Lew has made a clear commitment to giving us the best possible chances to win. In addition, we have now shown that we're capable of drawing consistently big crowds if we can get people excited about the team. Lew also has a tremendous number of connections and will no doubt at least have the chance to interview some mid-to-top-level coaches. And finally, we're willing to pay among the top 20 salaries in the country, which is reason alone that we could attract someone great.

Will we get Urban Meyer to leave Florida? It's safe to say we won't. But will we get a highly ranked up-and-comer who has done wonders at a mid-major school, or maybe even someone willing to make a lateral move? I don't see any reason to believe that won't happen.

actorman 11 years, 1 month ago

jwliddell, if you look at what saidtoomuch wrote above, Perkins only said, "I can confirm an internal review is under way ... It involves a personnel matter, and as a result, is confidential. It would be inappropriate for me to provide further information right now."

Do you know of anything else that he said or did to inflame the situation? If not, what exactly are you blaming him for? Again, try to stick to the facts rather than your personal bias.

11 years, 1 month ago

actorman ~

Excellent posts as usual. While we may not agree on things political, I think we see eye-to-eye on most everything related to KU sports. Your posts are always a pleasure to read and easy on the eyes. Now if we can just work on FlaHawk… :^)

jwliddle ~

I love your passion as a KU fan, and while I know you are being somewhat sarcastic, your Self analogy is probably not a good one. What is Self’s record against Big 12 opponents? How many Big 12 regular season and tournament championships does he have? What is his overall winning percentage at KU? He is already being talked about as being a hall of famer. Not sure if Mangino will be mentioned in the same light any time soon.

11 years, 1 month ago

jwliddell, not jwliddle. Apologies.

actorman 11 years, 1 month ago

Thanks txrockchalk, and LOL re FlaHawk. Now if I could just get you to come around re politics ...

jwliddell, it's also LOL that you say MM would be fired for "yelling at a player." Every coach yells at players from time to time, but I would bet 99% of the coaches do not tell a player to "shut up or I'll send you back to St. Louis where you'll get shot like your homies," or make fun of a player's alcoholic parents. And I would bet that the great majority of coaches would not intimidate and harass a student who's giving them a parking ticket, let alone have TWENTY-FOUR of such tickets. The great majority would also not try to consistently force players to come back too quickly from injuries, even players who had already been great contributors to the team. I find it hysterical that you continue to ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence that MM is far more than just a tough football coach.

11 years, 1 month ago

jwliddell ~

You make a good point about the level of expectations being different between both sports at KU. BTW, how was South Bend? I was able to make it up there for our game in '99. 'Backers was fun to hang out in before the game, and Chicago is always a blast.

actorman ~

You along with my parents re politics - - it has become an off-limits topic when I go home for visits :) FWIW, I think you and jwliddell may be brethren when it comes to this subject.

Cimhawk 11 years, 1 month ago

Great article on Yahoo sports on this whole fiasco...Stucky and Meier throw their support behind their Coach.......Go on Mark Haters and read it........this whole thing has been exposed....Lew you lose and oh, does all of us!!!!

Steve Brown 11 years, 1 month ago

JWiddell you are right, while I appreciate HCBS if he has next 8 yrs. like our football team with a losing record against the league then it will be past time for him to go.

Mypoint about Leach is that he has interest in Kansas as a competitor and he may covet a few of our recruits. So why value his comment given he isn't unbiased source. If he admires Mark so much bring him to Lubbock. He'll have the chance.

The class act is our dreaded enemy, Pinkle on two different radio shows today declined any comment as he said since he was competing with Kansas his veiws wouldn't be appropriate at this sensitive time. He said while he has opinions, it wouldn't be right for him to stir the pot in either direction regarding coaching philosophy this week.

JWIddell you communicate that Mark has the moral high ground, I'm not seeing what you are seeing, what are some of us missing for you to have that pov?

read your post here: "Would I rather win at the cost of being morally corupt. Not at all. " How are we or Lew corupt? I'm missing something. Is it orange bowl or do you know the report being compiled by L. Williams is flawed in some way?

Is there anything in the upcoming report that would change your mind, strangling a player, domestic abuse, throwing a bobby knight chair do you know the report is just about a poke in chest and a few players mommies.?

Beat MU, I'm waiting on the report.

11 years, 1 month ago

jwliddell ~

It sounds like you had a great time up in SB and Chicago (except for your foot). That is a cool tradition after pre-game. I couldn’t believe the way Clausen and his date were treated by that “fan” early Sunday morning following the game.

Have you been to the UT stadium since they added the top decks to the north end zone? I was able to attend our game there on Saturday. I was also at our game there in ’01 and it was a pretty nice stadium, but man, it is quite a spectacle now. It seems the fan culture has changed as well. Don’t know if it has something to do with winning a recent National Championship or not, but they are in to the games way more now. They were fairly quiet and docile eight years ago, however were polar opposites on Saturday. Beaver Stadium in State College is another great venue to check out if you haven’t yet.

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