Kansas defeats Fort Hays State, 107-68

  • 7 p.m., Nov. 3, 2009
  • Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, KS

Originally published November 4, 2009 at 12:00a.m., updated November 4, 2009 at 12:32p.m.

Early wake-up call

Demoted Taylor responds

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor slices between Fort Hays State defenders Ken Bowman (30) and Tim Peintner, right, for a second-half bucket. Taylor had 15 points in the Jayhawks’ 107-68 exhibition victory Tuesday at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor slices between Fort Hays State defenders Ken Bowman (30) and Tim Peintner, right, for a second-half bucket. Taylor had 15 points in the Jayhawks’ 107-68 exhibition victory Tuesday at Allen Fieldhouse.


Reader poll

Which newcomer was most impressive in KU's 107-68 victory over Fort Hays State?

  • Xavier Henry 38% 967 votes
  • Thomas Robinson 16% 421 votes
  • Elijah Johnson 37% 932 votes
  • Undecided 7% 181 votes

2501 total votes.

Audio clips

2009 KU-Fort Hays State basketball


KU vs. Fort Hays State

video thumbnail

KU men's basketball got ready for the 2009-10 season with an exhibition matchup against Fort Hays State Tuesday, Nov. 3, 2009 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Reader poll

Which KU non-freshmen do you think should red-shirt?

  • Travis Releford 35% 1437 votes
  • Mario Little 8% 367 votes
  • Both Little and Releford 47% 1957 votes
  • Neither of them 5% 237 votes
  • Other 2% 88 votes

4086 total votes.

Tyshawn Taylor, who started 33 of 35 games his freshman season at Kansas University, came off the bench in Tuesday’s exhibition opener against Fort Hays State.

The demotion wasn’t because of injury.

It wasn’t because of suspension.

It was because of crummy play at a practice a couple days ago.

“I’ve been going through a little bit on the court with coach. I haven’t been doing what I’m supposed to be doing,” Taylor said after scoring 15 points with five assists, four steals, two blocks and three turnovers in the Jayhawks’ 107-68 rout of the Tigers in Allen Fieldhouse.

“Coach gave me a chance. I messed it up. He told me I was going to be starting, but I came out and didn’t have any energy at practice. I was going through the motions. I wasn’t going hard a couple days before the game so he took it away from me.

“I hate not starting. He knows that and took it away from me. Now I have to step up and go hard. I expect to be back (in starting lineup) soon. I don’t know when, but I thought I played pretty well tonight, and that gives me some momentum.”

The 6-foot-2 sophomore guard’s starting slot went to junior Tyrel Reed, who had seven points and two assists. Taylor did start the second half in place of Xavier Henry (14 points), who picked up three fouls the first 20 minutes.

Taylor had four assists the second half, including a lob pass to Elijah Johnson that resulted in a vicious dunk.

“It’s what we needed to get the crowd going. I thought it was a little dead in there,” Taylor said. “He caught it, and everybody went crazy.”

The crowd voiced its approval, as did KU coach Bill Self, who admits he has been less than pleased with Taylor at practice lately.

“That’d probably be an accurate statement,” Self said. “He is careless. He made a couple plays today you definitely shake your head and say, ‘Why would he do that?’ He left his man open for a three. He’s just careless.

“I thought he played great the second half,” Self added. “He is really a good player.”

Taylor shrugged off a first-half injury. Taylor, who dislocated his left thumb in September, dislocated his right ring finger in the first half of Tuesday’s game.

He had two fingers taped together, and the injury didn’t bother him in his 21-minute stint.

“It dislocated. They popped it back in and taped it up. I’ve got a bad thing for hands man, my hands get hurt a lot,” Taylor said with a smile. “They put tape on it, and I was good. I’m good.”

And he said he’ll be ready to go at practice the rest of the way after this wake-up call.

“I’ve not been working that hard, not doing little things that coach gets frustrated with me about,” Taylor said. “He keeps telling me I’m making the same mistakes.

“He’s a fair coach. He treats everybody the same. I have not been playing well so I don’t expect to start. If somebody else is not playing well, they shouldn’t start. If you play good the days before the game, you’ll start. If not, you won’t.”

Sherron Collins led the way with 19 points on a night six Jayhawks scored in double figures.

“I thought since Cole (Aldrich, 13 points, 13 rebounds) had one basket and Sherron didn’t score much early, we scored the ball a lot better than I thought we would if those guys weren’t involved in the scoring,” Self said. “It looks to me we have more weapons than last year.”

KU will meet Pittsburg State at 7 p.m. Tuesday in the final exhibition of the preseason.


Aaron Carpenter 11 years, 3 months ago

It seems to me that Taylor is a little complacent right now, does anyone else see this? Did the gold medal get to his head? Still love ya Tyshon, keep kickin A.

Benjamin Clay Jones 11 years, 3 months ago

What, the J-W ran out of money to extend the picture below their armpits?

Steve Brown 11 years, 3 months ago

last night showcased our O will be fine, against all levels of competition. D and execution, another question, we have some lessons to learn and practice time before league play to do it.

how's a soph with a year of HCBS training abandon his man for open shots, oh I forgot, he hurt his hands fighting a few weeks ago. maybe he was checking stands for linebackers.

TT eat balanced diet, get your hands x/rayed and do your finger excersises, we need you healthy mind body & spirit. Yes, we're more talented you may get less minutes, use your head and experience to have the right attitude. Do your best, have fun, and play as a team, your mintues will sort themselves out over time. Yes, he is fair.

Joel Hood 11 years, 3 months ago

Speakeasy - click the photo and it links to the full pic.

I think that it's great that TT didn't start - not that I don't want him to start eventually, but it just proves to the guys that no one is guaranteed a starting spot and anyone can get playing time by hard work.

lighthawk is right - the team D was horrible at times. No one should ever dunk or get a backdoor cut in AFH against KU (ok - that is probably unrealistic, but you get my point.) But, there are two weeks before we play Memphis. I'm sure there will be improvements before then.

Matt1958 11 years, 3 months ago

I hope last night was not indicative of how we are going to guard.

rawkhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

I disagree, soobawls. It's not mistakes that define one's character but how one responds to mistakes. It seems that Taylor is trying to bounce back from recent mistakes, and I know that he will be a major asset to this year's team.

Joe Baker 11 years, 3 months ago

Tyshawn is growing up!! He's done some stupid stuff and it appears he's choosing to gamble at this time. He'll get the big picture and if he's smart, he'll stay focused. His focus needs to be school and basketball, nothing else.

Get focused Tyshawn and stay focused!

Play ball and have fun. Don't stop having fun!!

kvskubball 11 years, 3 months ago

Our four big men who played last night had a total of 10 assists against only 4 turnovers. The only 'Big' w/o an assist? The Big Dog - Cole. But then as he lives in the post this year, he will be on the receiving end of a lot of passes - hopefully!

Since the team had 18 turnovers, that meant the other players - the guards and X (I don't pull X out to single him out, but because he's more of a 'tweener' than either a guard or a 'big') together had a total of 14 turnovers.

That sounds like sloppy/careless play on the perimeter. But good sharing of the ball by the Bigs and that the guards probably benefitted from some of that largesse!

I didn't get a chance to watch the game. I hope to catch the re-cast tonight.

Question: Can Withey redshirt?

Looking at the box score, it looks like Robinson did good, other than fouling out...

And 9 guys played last night. So If Withey doesn't redshirt, then one of the 5 bigs isn't going to play very much...

That leads me to think that Mario Little should definitely redshirt this year.

Who played the 3 last night when X was out of the game??? I noticed that X fouled out too...

I'm assuming that coach is willing to go with either Marcus at the 3 to back up X and/or with Brady in the second semester. So that means that it would also be wise for Travis Releford to redshirt as well.

So, last night's game would indicate to me that we will have at least 2 redshirts and if Withey can redshirt, then we are likely to have 3 redshirts, and some real studs ready to go next year, making that team theirs!

If Withey can not redshirt, then I see coach really working Marcus hard to get him ready to play some 3, or his PT may be cut because of a numbers game, or Withey won't play much. I think Cole, Markieff, and TRob are going to play a lot (Unless Markieff falls in love with the 3 even if he's not hitting them -that will make coach send him to the doghouse).

Which means if Marcus plays more 3, then the guard rotation's time will shrink.

With 6 guards, that means someone or even 2 players in the following group is/are not going to play much, because of a lack of available PT - CJ, EJ, Sherron, Tyshawn, Tyrel, Brady.

more to follow.... (3000 character limit)

kvskubball 11 years, 3 months ago

That should be a clear warning that the guards will be on a short leash this year. It sounds like Tyshawn may need that to sink in. There are plenty of players, if he doesn't push himself as hard as coach thinks he can - Then Tyshawn could find himself sitting out Games, not just NOT Starting! So if Tyshawn is busy hotdogging or daydreaming about playing in the NBA, or whatever...Coach has the luxury of being able to give him a hard lesson in reality. He didn't really have that luxury last year, and so I don't think Tyshawn has fully grasped that. When he does, this team will get much better, because everyone else will see the object lesson and pick it up too. Often time, an example needs to be made. Not starting was a very SMALL lesson. If that lesson doesn't work, Tyshawn's going to be sitting on the end of the bench until it sinks in. Seems like he understands, at least somewhat, so hopefully Coach doesn't have to make it a harder lesson!

I'm getting a very clear picture that PT is going to be a big tool for Coach to use with anyone who he feels isn't giving his best. That's something that will sharpen this squad up big-time. It's all in how the guys react! The talent is definitely there, they had just better get wired-in or they'll be left without any PT!!!

Were we getting a lot of transition? Was Cole running with the team in transition?

I read that Markieff dunked with authority. I like that. Laying the ball up can result in the ball rolling off...unless you totally muff a dunk, it's done - score it!

Rock Chalk. It's great to be talking about games!!!!!!

suttonku 11 years, 3 months ago

I think Tyshawn not starting was in part a penalty for the fights on campus but also the fact that Tyshawn has not been practicing well. Even Tyshawn said that he hasn't been practicing very well and that he has been turning the ball over too much. I think Tyshawn will start once the season starts and Reed will be on the bench where he belongs. I thought Reed was terrible all night last night. Once Brady comes back I think Reed is going to be left out of the picture. Hes out there to do one thing and thats to make shots and he didnt even really do that well last night. No defense and he doesnt handle the ball very well. Tyshawn should start in place of Reed and that team immediately gets faster, quicker, and better on the defensive and offensive end. Im not saying that Tyshawn in a better shooter than Reed but he is a better passer than Reed.

741hawk 11 years, 3 months ago

Pet Peeves about the broadcast(s):

Dave Armstrong drives me nuts with his "Phog Allen Fieldhouse" comments. Isn't the name on the buliding Allen Field House? (As a comparison, it's not Curley Lambeau Filed in Green Bay.)

If the radio network wants us to listen, they'd better synch-up the radio to the television. A 5-second delay doesn't make it worth listening to Bob and Chris.

easyfive 11 years, 3 months ago

Turnover TT is back! I counted 6 to 7 on him last night. I still don't get why people like him so much. Maybe he is trying to go to fast?

Beak 11 years, 3 months ago

I have digits which pop out of place when playing hoops (or fighting). Its a problem that only gets worse with time.

suttonku 11 years, 3 months ago

You guys are ridiculous...TT is a great guard, thats why hes a projected first round pick...It was the first game of the season and I said before it started that there would be mistakes and turnovers...UK had 23 turnovers in their first game too.

milehighhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

741 - I second the motion about synching up the radio and TV.

I would LOVE to listen to Bob and Chris every game, but find the delay unbearable.

gojbirds 11 years, 3 months ago

Everyone settle down. The team defense will vastly improve as will execution on offense. The team has great weapons on both ends. Let's get past the fighting/facebook incident and look forward. I hope TT comes around though. I don't like his body language on the court. I didn't like it last year and he seemed to have the same attitude last night. He's has some huge upside though and he needs to mature.

T-Rob and EJ looked good. T-Rob in particular appears to have a great attitude and once he adjusts to D-1 (and Big 12) game speed he will be a major force inside.

Michael Auchard 11 years, 3 months ago

There were multiple articles months ago on why Elijah is wearing #15 this year, go into the archives and look it up.

tennesseest 11 years, 3 months ago

We had 18 TOs, 3 were in the final 1:30 of the game. 15 TOs isn't bad at all for playing around with personnel, new freshmen, etc. Add a few really bad passes and our TO number was around 12-13, very good. Looking great so far.

esubrett 11 years, 3 months ago

Would it hurt to broadcast the game(s) in HD. You're killing me.

jaybate 11 years, 3 months ago

Wednesday As Self Starts the Toughening:

The reason to be an OAD is to avoid the sophomore jinx and the toughening of Bill Self.

Seriously, Quantum T is, as Bill Self said, "...a really good player," after he teachered and belittled Taylor into the ground. When you really want to take a part a person's ego, paradox them.

What we are seeing is the Bill Self from 2 and 3 years ago. The button pushing Bill Self. The Bill Self who, when he knows he got some good steal with a year's experience, puts it under super heat treatment to harden it into Krup Steel for the madness.

Those downing on Quantum T need to remember the Bill Self who worked his way methodically through the entire top 8 of the team 3 years ago pushing each one nearly to his breaking point with needling, button pushing, and in your face verbal abuse.

It is incredibly stressful for players to go from that contagious, coaxing, positive, can-do, quick with a smile Bill Self on a team that is young, to the slit-eyed, in-your-grille, down-on-your-game, endlessly critical, taunting, paradoxing Bill Self, who is in reality both one of the nicest guys and one of the hardest cases I have ever witnessed in coaching.

A lot of coaches believe in tearing guys down in the beginning and then building them up through their careers. Bob Knight was a leading example of this approach.

Bill Self builds them up so high they are playing vastly beyond what their experience should permit them when they are green. But once they get the experience under their belts, Bill Self brings out the psychological scalpel and begins cutting and slicing confident players into near basket cases. It has to be a harrowing odyssey for these young men.

jaybate 11 years, 3 months ago

Never, never, never forget the job Bill Self did on Mario Chalmers. By the two thirds point of that season that Self was working his way through the team, player by player, he had kept Chalmers on the surgeons table for fully 2 months, when most of the other players escaped after only 2-3 weeks. It was one of the most terrible psychological toughenings I have ever seen a player put through. Chalmers finally cracked in a huddle during a road game, if I recall correctly, and wanted to fight Self. It was at that point that Self looked Chalmers in the eye with that incredibly steely eyed glint Self can get and Chalmers knew he had not been nearly as tough as he thought he was; that Ronnie Chalmers, tough as he probably was at taughting and goading his son, was nothing in comparison to how tough it is in the real world. Self felt he had to disabuse Chalmers once and for all of the false assumption in him that Chalmers had already be tempered into steel by his father. It was at that moment that Chalmers became a man and a great basketball player who was destined, no matter what his number in the draft, to be a professional basketball player.

Tyshawn Taylor could well get an even harsher toughening this seaon than Chalmers, because Self knows Taylor is still a child despite having a kind of game and abilities that the pros will likely draft at the end of this season. Self knows it is now or never for toughening Taylor. Poor Tyshawn, he is about to experience something almost none of us has ever had to experience.

Self pulls no punches in the toughening process. He uses every tool at his disposal. He is absolutely ruthless.

jaybate 11 years, 3 months ago

Still, I think Cole may be in for the harshest treatment starting around mid January, when Withey returns. Self has never really put Cole through the toughening...not really. Cole is going pro after this season. Cole will be tested thoroughly by Self to the point that Cole will much prefer going up against the muggings he routinely gets than face Self another few weeks. The whole psychology of this team starts with Collins, but it runs through Cole. Cole has never had his buttons pushed to the breaking point. Self will have to do it for this team to be as tough as it has to be to win it all. Cole took a tremendous physical beating last season and prove he was an incredible warrior physically. But his mind is still the big joking kid. He has a dominant personality, a big man's personality, but the psyche is still tender, the mind has not been turned to Krup Steel yet. Self has to toughen him for this ring run, and for Cole's life in the NBA.

My guess is that Kieff and Marcus will get small does of toughening this season, maybe even Xavier, though Self rarely brings out the scalpel with frosh. Everyone will get tested some, because the Madness rewards the tested, the hardened, the ones who have survived hell before they got there.

But it will be Quantum T and Cole that experience the true Selfian Breaking Point Treatment this year.

It will make them great. But it will be terrible getting there.

Dirk Medema 11 years, 3 months ago

I apprecate TT's attitude inspite of the demotion. Some obviously question his "character". His background - see various articles on his youth/family (non) life, was rough, and a lot rougher than most, but it would seem to me that his attitude towards the demotion says a lot more about his character. It is grat that he has many wonderful role models to learn from with the team (hopefully learning a few hard leasson vicariously as well).

The D will come with Coach's practices. It was interesing to see Coach experiment with a variety of lineups, big and small.

Gotta love the team shooting over 80% FTs. That will win more than a couple games over the year, and maybe even a championship or 2.

waywardJay 11 years, 3 months ago

there's that Word again... "Thuggish".... never once seen it to describe Brady's or Chase's Dui...... definetely more "thuggish" than dislocating a finger throwing a bad punch.... Real "thugs" would have laughed at Tyshawn for Dislocating a finger.....

ginger2015 11 years, 3 months ago

Hey easyfive, instead of hating, maybe you should try reading. The article says TT had three turnovers. Get over it.

I would say that coming on a message board using a pseudonym and making comments about someone that would never be made to their face also show a certain lack of character.

WisconsinJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

Based on Tuesday night's game-- neither Little or Releford scored-- I'd say 'shirt 'em both.

keith horinek 11 years, 3 months ago

Jaybate, I do remember when Cole was a freshman going up against Sausha Kaun and Darnell Jackson, I think he got beat up pretty good. I think that's what has toughened Cole up to where he is now. I like Tyshawn and think he will be ok. HCBS is just trying to send a message. I was impressed with the freshman last night. They looked real good and with the upperclassmen schooling them, come march, look out! this is the deepest and most talented team i can remember in a long time.

suttonku 11 years, 3 months ago


Neither of them scored because neither of them played...If they would have played in the game last night then they would not be allowed to redshirt this season.

Beverly42_1997 11 years, 3 months ago

Last night the TV announcers, Armstrong and Gurley, on Jayhawk TV talked about everything except what was going on in the game itself, such as history of Jayhawks, rankings of othr teams, Big 12, other coaches, players activities, new facility, etc. Nothing about what was happening in the game for instance: who just scored, the score, what player just fouled out, how many fouls someone has, how many points, who just entered the game, who had the assist, etc. They are knowledgable, but their discussion would be good for pre-game or halftime. They ignored the action and chased me to the radio.

suttonku 11 years, 3 months ago

First game of the season for the broadcasters too, give them a break.

SCHNBALL 11 years, 3 months ago

I agree this team is very deep at the 1,2 and maybe 3, I don't think 4,5 are as deep as the champinoship year

jackson, arthur, kaun, aldrich vs morris, morris, aldrich, robinson, withey.

Scratch that, they are as deep, will they be as tough? That will be the real answer to how far this team will go, no layups, fouls to give.

going to watch UK friday in Rupp.

KEITHMILES05 11 years, 3 months ago

The announcers were nothing short of HORRIBLE. Gurley doesn't know when to STFU. He rambles on and on about nothing. If this is the best JTV can do then they are worthless.

100 11 years, 3 months ago

LJW -- lots & lots of trolls on your website.

Tyshawn -- keep working. Actions always speak louder than words. We're all rooting for you. Remember, teamwork, trust & passion are the keys. Character is who you are. Your mistake is not who you are, 5 weeks later. Thats past. Its a building block for you now to make you stronger, better. Keep working hard, doing the right thing, being a leader & your character will be defined for life, on the greatest team in the history of college basketball...


As Wilt Chamberlain once said on Dr. Naismith Court...

"Rock Chalk Jayhawk"

Priest Fontaine 11 years, 3 months ago

Drgnslayr and a couple of other people have brought this up but I have never heard any answers. Why are a lot of our basketball games and football games not being broadcast in HD? Its almost 2010! I live in NYC and go to a sports bar by my house that has about 20 different HD plasma screens throughout. It never fails that KU is the only pixelated atari looking game in the entire place! I know its Kansas (what's the matter with kansas), but then again, it's Kansas, as in the premier bball school in the world! where it all started!

Jack Wilson 11 years, 3 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Rickchalk 11 years, 3 months ago

TT, in no way shape or form will be a first round NBA pick. He is a Mid-Second at best. I bleed Ku Crimson and Blue, so im not here to bash the hawks. He might not even be in the top five players at KU this year. Remember, he's got Sherron and Cole to play behind. If he was that caliber of player, he would make them look good, not the other way around. First round would say that he's in the top 30 some players in the world, not just college.

waywardJay 11 years, 3 months ago

High Elite Major.... Wow..... way to characterize EXACTLY WHAT I FEARED was what people were meaning by "thuggish".....

Tyshawn's "posts" after the fight was a reference to a Rapper,and how his lyrics fit with the situation.... I personally would have preferred Jay-Z's " I got 99 problems and a B**** ain't one." to have been his post.... but it was not... It was lil Wayne....

Frankly... It's not BS in the slightest. What Chase and Brady did was SIGNIFICANTLY more dangerous than a really poor thrown Punch.

Let's define a Thug for those who need a proper definition.... states a thug.....

–noun 1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer. 2. (sometimes initial capital letter) one of a former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who strangled their victims.

With the Second definition being a specific reference to a historical event..... let's characterize it out...and specifically point out IT DOES NOT SPECIFY A RACE.... Which means, Thugs can be white, black, hispanic, asian, purple, green.... men or women....

Let that sink in for a moment.....

Ok...we will use definition 1 because it seems to fit our situation best...... So far as I know.... Tyshawn taylor has never murdered, or robbed anyone.... He does not seem typically Cruel... if anything he seems pretty mild mannered, this one instances being the outlier..... if you are using this terminology .... Then you are pretty much calling him a Ruffian..... which may be accurate.... Considering he doesn't know how to Punch.... I would guess he's not actually a ruffian..... So using, an actual definition of thug.... the one part of the definition that applies, he cannot do properly ?????

See this is what i was afraid of.... we throw alot of crap about our slave state brethren about their past but apparently some of our fans too are saying pretty racially insensitive things...... What Chase and Brady did was stupid and a felony, and they were fortunate no one got hurt. What tyshawn did was at worst a misdomenear, and he only hurt himself..... People get Jail time and suspended liscenses for Duis..... what does a terrible punch that by all accounts MISSED get you..... a broken wrist and hurt pride, and maybe a ticket or thrown out of an establishment..... Real "thugs" would laugh at Tyshawn for being 19 and not know how to throw a Punch.

In our Nation, What Chase and Brady did was FAR more dangerous, yet Tyshawn is considered to be the ruffian ???? What is your basis for this ???

waywardJay 11 years, 3 months ago

For clearity......

Ruffian-noun 1. a tough, lawless person; roughneck; bully.

all of these sort of people who know how to punch someone without dislocating a Finger..... Infact, I know how to Punch someone without breaking your wrist, and I wouldn't apply to these descriptions. By that thought process I would be more thuggish than Tyshawn Taylor. I'm about 150 pounds.

waywardJay 11 years, 3 months ago

High Elite Major...... One more thing, couldn't let it pass.....

you suggest.....Don't even try to say that getting a DUI is thuggish

Here's a sample of Chamillionaire's Ridin' ( edited for those who have sensitive eyes..... )

I been drinkin' and smokin'; holding s 'Cause a brother can't focus. I gotta get to home 'fore the po-po's score This big ol Excursion Swervin', All up in the curve, man. N been sippin' on that Hennessey And the gin again Is in again; We in the wind. Doin' a hundred while I puff on the b* We roll another one up; We livin' like we ain't givin' a f. I got a revolver in my right hand (right hand) 40 oz on my lap, freezing my b* Rolla a na tree, green leaves and all. Comin' pretty deep, me and my dojo, I gotta hit to backstreets; Wanted by the six-pound And I got heat. glock glock shots to the block; We creep-creep. Pop-pop. Hope cops don't see me; On a low key. With no regard for the law, We dodge 'em like f-'em-all. But I won't get caught up And brought up On charges for none of y'all. Keep a gun in car And a b to spark, But, well, if you want, N****,poppin'you dark. Ready or not, we bust shots off in the air Krayzie Bone and Chamillionaire.

Obviously, Neither Krayzie Bone or Chamillionaire have any problems Drinking ( or smoking ) and driving under the influence.... however, the whole intent of the song is that ..... they are trying to AVOID the DUI.....

They see me rollin'; They hatin'. Patrollin' And tryin. to catch me ridin. dirty.

Probably not much different from what Chase and Brady were doing when they were caught..... trying to avoid a dui..... Wow.... behold the Power of Lyrical wisdom.... Sorry for the musical quotations y'all...

There's numerous mentions of drinking and driving in just about every rapper's repetiore.... if you want me to go through and find more i will....

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

Soobawls has toooooo much character. I hope it doesn't infect anyone around him.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 3 months ago

waywardjay: I'm sure they'll take this post off too because truth isn't a defense here. Black culture has glorified "gangsta" garbage. True or untrue? You can run from the truth; most do when it's not politically correct. It makes you uncomfortable. Do you know what the pants hanging down on the butt is about? It's what happens in jail when prisoners don't have belts or tie strings on one size fits all pants. So why is that "cool?"

You're definition of thug is correct. My point was that black culture glorifies thuggish behavior, and then the same people that dress that way, talk that way, look that way (tatoos everywhere), and act that way, take offense to being called a thug. The "gansta" is glorified. The robber, murderer is glorified. The car jacker is glorified.

The definitinon you posted: noun 1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer. 2. (sometimes initial capital letter) one of a former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who strangled their victims.

Don't get me wrong. People that get DUIs and hurt people should go to jail. And it sickens me that they are treated as if they just made a mistake. But that isn't thuggish behavior. Again, though, the only thing that bothers you is that the glorification was instigated by black culture. Ask Jason Whitlock what he thinks of that, or Bill Cosby, or Barack Obama for that matter.

waywardJay 11 years, 3 months ago

I'm in a precarious position... Ask me to defend black culture, and I cannot... that would be hypocritical of me... For never in my life have i BEEN anything but white.... i disagree, however as someone who has been around and seen alot of culture.... I don't believe Black Culture is glorifying any sort of Garbage..... Look at Chris Bridges teaming with community groups to give away cars in Atlanta , for example. I believe there is an image portrayed by some members of Rap Fraternity is a bleak image that shows what life can be on the most deserate stages but Do i believe it's promoted as the "ideal Life" by a majority of members No.

I think evne in the hardest hardcore gansta rap there is truly a deeo mourning that it has come this far... that life has to be this way.... Listen to Cee- Lo green's "imma die trying..."

( sorry more lyrics )

So here it is, an invitation to an open book A painful past my heart is still broken look I know you don't hate me it's not assured they anyone appreciate me See i've been having a hard time selling my album's lately In recent news the source couldnt find any microphones to rate me

Using words I could scream an alternative to equate me Which is true I'm in a box with a view would you still wanna date me? I could be a pretty good thug but it wouldnt compare to a great me The final cross to bear is mine it's not a cross to share But isn't it ironic I still woulda bought a cross to wear That obviously cost to wear but considerably less than the price that it costs to care Now I have another loss to spare I doubt em say that I can't win Even though I know talking intelligent just ain't in You most likely to go broke when you just can't bend So me and JJ both gon' have to pay bills

unfortunately, people want salaciousiness.... People want see how other bad other's people life is, so they feel better about the straights they are in.... people wanna hear

Oh yes I'm sure, yes I'm sure I don't care anymore Anything, anywhere, anytime, any place Let's do this s and get it over with I'll run a boxcutter 'cross your face I got n** here, I got n** there Ready to get down if I make the call I don't give a f if your problem is big or small Almost anyday I could say f it all - f it all!

Same guy, Same Album.... the problem is.... different audiences.... You generalize black culture like it's something easily defined.... and unfortunately... it's not.... No culture is.... Everyone you will ask will give you some answer that is different, it may be what you are suggesting... it may be that our city schools are underfunded ... I was aproduct of underfunded city schools... I've seen the results.... You get me, You get drop outs, You get ivy-leaguers...... I had great teachers and I had people who were arrested for Possession shortly after i lef their care.....

waywardJay 11 years, 3 months ago

The problem is.....

People still standin in line at the World Party for some Soul Food To get put back in that old mood They say we like the new 'Lo and we respect everything that you trying to do 'Lo Do what you do but just do more that you know It's a catch 22 and I couldn't cry Now I'm under oath with them both and I couldn't lie Cussed 'em said that I'm too dope and I coudln't fly But you getting rich talkin s*** so why shouldn't I I'm just playing but I guess that couldn't go without saying I'm just gon ride this revolution until they stop me where I'm stayin But I ain't gotta lie to ya to make it sound fly to ya I keep my feet on the ground and bring the sky to ya

Until people stop watching survivor ... until people stop feeling the need to see CSI... until people stop feeling the need to go to the furthest posible length of humanity to feel sated in an intellectual stand point.... we aren't going to get away from the extremes of ALL culture.....

Only way back to the middle is to reach the end and turn around.... it's scary but signs are pointing that way..... It's not black culture but it trends, This halloween the biggest grossing horror film was a movie that relied almost entirely on brilliant camera work, and ambient noises for effect.... it beat out Saw 6 on a bunch less than a tenth of Saw 6..... if we all stopped looking towards the extremes ....they would go away.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 3 months ago

waywardjay: I like your last few points the best. And I agree, the "gangsta" stuff is not supported by most of the black community. The problem is not support .. it is that it is tolerated by most of the black community.

I guess it is this with me. I am sad for what has become of the urban black culture. It's sad that everytime I turn on the TV some poor little girl has been shot in a drive by shooting; or some old lady has been raped in a home invasion; or some store clerk is robbed of $37; or some one is car jacked at 38th and Prospect in KCMo. I just want that community to stand up as one, to disown the violence and what is killing them and others (not glorify it by acting like the thug is cool).

It is sad that the real thugs can hold human life in such low regard. And it's sad that the black community tolerates the glorification of the thug. And the rest of America tolerates it because we walk on egg shells out of fear of being called a racist for speaking out against it. Criticize anything that is black, and the world comes to an end .. or your post gets removed by site staff for violation of usage agreement.

You are right on re: your last comments. But to deny that the current state of black culture is helping to send us all into the abyss you are referring to, is to ignore a big part of the problem.

Saying no to Survivor, CSI, Halloween, Saw, is a good start, too.

Go Jayhawks.

waywardJay 11 years, 3 months ago

it's not just Black folks though, HEM.... It's really not.... it's higher concentration here and again..... The news wants you to watch @ 5, 6, and 10.... so again...Scandal reigns.... we get away from good policies.... we leave these kids without activities to keep them out of Gangs.... after school programs are non-existant and if they exist they are drastically limited...... can you believe public television had to Cancel READING RAINBOW this year ????? Reading friggin rainbow..... because the Bush administration slashed funding for Public Television.... What's next Sesame Street ???

Communities rise and fall based on their ability to work together and we have people literally shouting at each other at town hall meetings.... When did we get this way ???? How far must we go to see the whole world is collapsing and all we need to do is turn and shake each other's hand and realize... there is nothing good comign from calling each other names, and disliking each other because of how we dress.....

Sorry more lyrics... im over flowing now....

Oh Mercy mercy me....things ain't what they Use to be.....where did all the blue sky go ? Posion is the wind that flows...from the north and south and east....

Jack Wilson 11 years, 3 months ago

waywardjay: Give me a break. You're an apologist. You're an excuse maker. Under your theory, because you don't have after school activities or government showing you the way, Kids turn to Gangs. "we leave kids without activities to keep them out of Gangs." That is what you said. What "kids" turn to gangs?

Try this. Responsible parents in the home. Parents are the ones that are responsible for their kids, not the government, not an after school program. That requires a father in the home. And this is not a black problem? Try again. That's your answer .. parents that actually take responsibility for their kids.

waywardJay 11 years, 3 months ago

it always start at home.... but, it doesn't end there.... not every parent is going to be perfect..... There's gotta be backs up in place for when the parents fail.....

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