Saturday, October 14, 2017


Tom Keegan: Cyclones in a blowout; Jayhawks in a tailspin

Kansas linebacker Joe Dineen Jr. (29) and the Jayhawks show their frustration as Iowa State wide receiver Marchie Murdock (16) runs in another touchdown during the third quarter on Saturday, Oct. 14, 2017 at Jack Trice Stadium in Ames, Iowa.

Kansas linebacker Joe Dineen Jr. (29) and the Jayhawks show their frustration as Iowa State wide receiver Marchie Murdock (16) runs in another touchdown during the third quarter on Saturday, Oct. 14, 2017 at Jack Trice Stadium in Ames, Iowa.


Ames, Iowa — A dreary, rainy day in the Big 12’s northern-most outpost took a turn for the worse when a football game started and a Keystone Cops routine broke out at Jack Trice Stadium, home of Iowa State’s tough, disciplined, steadily improving football team.

Playing the role of the overly grateful guest who can’t stop showering the host with gifts, Kansas defeated Kansas, 45-0. That was not a typo.

Sure, Iowa State (4-2 overall, 2-1 in the Big 12) gets credit for a victory in the Big 12 standings. And don’t get me wrong, the Cyclones earned it by doing what they had to do. They showed up.

But make no mistake, Kansas was the main factor in the outcome. A snap over the punter’s head. A dropped snap by the punter that resulted in a shanked kick that went for negative yardage. A 68-yard punt return for a touchdown on a play in which Iowa State went all-out for the block. A fumbled punt.

It’s not often that a football team can say that it had more turnovers than offensive plays, but one KU play from scrimmage into this one, Kansas had pulled off that football rarity.

If you didn’t catch the game, here’s what you missed: A three-hour shower scene from the movie “Psycho.”

Even the “Fire Clint Bowen!” brigade would have to admit that on this day the defense was far superior to an offense that totaled five first downs and special teams that were so bad that with a few more outings along those lines they’ll run the risk of having their coach, a proven veteran with a strong track record of success, being pinned with the moniker “Sloppy” Joe DeForest.

It was an ugly way for a football team to reach the halfway point of a season and for David Beaty to hit the halfway point of a five-year rebuilding project.

Signs of progress didn’t make the trip to Ames, where KU’s road losing streak swelled to 43 games. For the eighth time in his 21 Big 12 games (38 percent), Beaty’s team lost by 42 or more points.

From the outside looking in, or should I say looking up at the scoreboard, it appears the Jayhawks are getting worse, not better. The combined score of the past two weeks, including last week’s home trouncing at the hands of Texas Tech, is Opponents 110, Kansas 19.

You might say the Jayhawks hit rock bottom and resume digging this coming Saturday in Fort Worth against undefeated TCU.

The scoreboard says it’s getting worse for KU. What does the head coach, that indefatigable embodiment of optimism, say?

“At the end of the day, that’s the thing that matters,” Beaty said of the scoreboard. “And we can try to justify anything we want, but I have to do a better job of making sure those things don’t happen on my watch.”

Beaty entered the season sounding confident that this year’s squad would be markedly better than last year’s 2-10 cellar dweller. At the halfway mark, where does his level of optimism stand?

“I see enough, when I watch the tape, I see enough for me to be encouraged to where we can play football in this league, and we can do it and be able to win games,” Beaty said. “I know we can.”

Six games remain for Beaty to be proven right. Half of the remaining opponents were ranked in the top 14 in the nation heading into Saturday and all three teams won. KU has not yet faced a top 25 school and has lost all five games vs. FBS competition by double digits in what was supposed to be the easier half of the schedule.

This loss was particularly unsightly and lacking in passion.

Good coaches come to Kansas and lose their mojo, which suggests that the problem, in part, lies in recruiting the wrong players. This will not be an easy fix either in the short or long term.

— See what people were saying about the game during's live coverage.

More news and notes from Kansas vs. Iowa State


Armen Kurdian 4 years, 8 months ago

I really want to be positive about this team, say they are trying, improving, giving it their best, trying to get over the hump, but I can't. I don't know what Coach is telling these guys behind closed doors, and I'm all about being optimistic, but this entire football organization needs a serious but chewing. The amount of money that has been sunk into this program is massive. I really don't know what the answer is. It's more than just a coach. No team that is this bad is the fault of just one thing.

I mean this in the 'best' possible way. The football team is god awful and there needs to be some righteous anger in that locker room. Until that happens, this team is on bare life support. When is the last time we won a game when the opponent actually played well and didn't give us a bunch of opportunities to win like against TX last year?

I'm at a loss.

John Fitzgerald 4 years, 8 months ago


What do you think the odds are of Beaty and Zenger being around next year?

Andy Tweedy 4 years, 8 months ago

How do we fire Zenger after he just put together that massive stadium renovation? I'm not saying he shouldn't be, but it seems like we're in a tough spot on that one.

John Fitzgerald 4 years, 8 months ago

I have no clue but good question. I’m not the professional I’m just asking questions.

Brian Leslie 4 years, 8 months ago

Why couldn't a different AD continue with the obviously badly needed renovations? Is there any reason to think that the big money donors don't see a need for a complete shake-up? They are big money donors because they are smart business people. I think you're more likely to see funding coming with the caveat of "only IF Zenger and Beaty are gone." No one is giving money because they liked what they saw today.

Tom Keegan 4 years, 8 months ago

John, It's such a tricky situation because of the extension Bernadette Gray-Little gave to Zenger. I don't think the stadium renovation makes it tricky because Zenger could shift to the Williams Fund and still lead the fund-raising campaign. They should do that now and start search for new AD, then let him make the call on the coach. I'm in the minority on this, but I believe that if things continue to go as badly as they have neither Zenger nor Beaty will be in their positions. That's if they finish 1-11 and continue to get blown out. I just don't know how they would be able to keep a coach who would be 1-32 vs. FBS foes and an AD whose hires would be 5-61 vs. FBS. If they show significant improvement over the final six games — tough to imagine that happening because the toughest part of schedule starts Saturday — then they stay in their jobs.

Steve Jacob 4 years, 8 months ago

What if they spend that $300M on the stadium and still lose? Ever seen the crowd at at Florida Marlins game on TV?

John Fitzgerald 4 years, 8 months ago

I agree. My worst case scenario was KU loses by an average of 30 the rest of their games, and then at that point letting go Zenger and Beaty. Then the next question would be who would we hire the replace them? Or even better, who would even be interested?

Barry Weiss 4 years, 8 months ago

I still cannot believe that Bernadette Gray-Little move. Something fishy there.

Jeff Coffman 4 years, 8 months ago

"Good coaches come to Kansas and lose their mojo"...let's see Turner Gill was about a 500 coach prior to coming to KU. Two years before he came he won the MAC with like a 5-3 conference record, and was something like 2-6 the following year. He was not considered a good coach and most people wondered why we were getting rid of Mangino, furthermore, most liked Leach, Harbough was a rumor, and a few other top assistants and coaches were out there. Turner Gill did not have a mojo to lose when he arrived.

Coach Weis was an amazing offensive coordinator with the Patriots, in fact was very successful in developing Tom Brady and obtained 3 superbowls. He went to Notre Dame and after a successful first two years, failed the following 2-3 years and had a below 500 record one year and elected not to go to a bowl game when they were 6-6, he was fired, and had lost his mojo. As a recovery or bounceback to his career, KU hired him, which turned out to be a huge mistake for various reasons, but clearly the talent at the NFL he can coach and at the collegiate level he is not good and was not good and had lost his mojo prior to joining KU, also the one year at Florida as an OC was an utter failure.

Coach Beaty was an up and coming position coach, having had success under leach, but in T A&M he was not as successful. Landing at KU he really did have much of a mojo and he hasn't done anything since.

Anyways your statement infers KU leads people to be bad, and that isn't the case, we hired past has beens without success and hoped they would do better here. They have not.

Bryce Landon 4 years, 8 months ago

Regarding Gill, I seem to remember him being one of the finalists for the job at Nebraska after Bill Callahan was fired - a job that ultimately went to Bo Pelini. I also remember a furor when Auburn hired Gene Chizik instead of Turner Gill to replace Tommy Tuberville, and the SJW liberal media was accusing Auburn of being racist. Apparently some people thought he was a good coach. We found out the hard way that he wasn't cut out to be a coach at the BCS/Power 5 level.

Also regarding Weis, he did do well in coaching Matt Cassel for the Chiefs during the 2010 season, which led to KC winning the AFC West that year. That was a factor in KC area alumni wanting Weis to replace Gill.

Jeff Coffman 4 years, 8 months ago

Both of those locations wanted to have Gill to have more experience, and after what he obtained the experience, it was clear he was not ready for the KU role, our issue was our AD at the time had pinpointed him a couple years prior.

As I said Weis did well in the NFL, but not in college (very few coaches are successful in pros and colleges). I think Johnson and Carroll are the only two who have won at both levels. Not that this is applicable, but only Larry Brown for NCAAM and NBA.

Greg Ledom 4 years, 8 months ago

Sure Steve, and brussel sprouts are better than asparagus, turkey bacon than tofu, etc., etc.. In other words, that reference is meaningless.

Tom Keegan 4 years, 8 months ago

It was a reference to Joe DeForest, an assistant coach. I suppose I could have spelled out "assistant coaches." Listeners infer, those making statements imply. Did not imply that KU leads people to bad. Agree on Gill and Weis. Gill was 20-30, 40 percent, at Buffalo. Weis had poor record compared to most ND coaches.

Richard Duran 4 years, 8 months ago

Weiss was made by Belichik and Brady. He ddin't develop Brady. If he had Dayne Christ would be in the NFL right now. He won at Notre Dame with his predecessor's team.

Layne Pierce 4 years, 8 months ago

Jeff I think you are on to something. We look at the stupidly cosmetic thing to do, and we jump at it. Truth is, there were questions asked in the beginning about why do you hire someone with no head coaching experience. In fact, had Coach Beatty even an OC, I think not. We hired him because he could recruit Texas, which he really hasn't, but even if he could, you hire a Texas recruiter for texas, you hire a head coach to give the program, direction, discipline, and grit.

In truth we have gone years without a real head coach, and it shows. Right now, the situation is either that the players we have are no good, or they are not playing up to their potential, or both.

We do the same thing with qbs, qbs need to be good enough to perform within a system. They need to be recruited for that system, or the system has to change for them. Our line is simply never going to be good enough for a slow qb to sit back and pick teams apart. You have to be mobile. Today, I watched us run everything right into the defensive scheme of Iowa St. Coach Beatty is right. We should have been able to handle a 3 man front, we simply could not do it. If C Beatty returns, he should evaluate for the best players have, and make an offense and defense that works for them, and stick with it. Yes, you have to be able to score points in our conference, but if the other team gets 45 a game, we simply won't score that many. So the defensive scheme and the offensive scheme have to protect each other. Today for much of the time, the defense did make some plays. The offense was putrid, and Special Teams, oh God, Lord Preserve Us. I am for starting Stanley, I like Bender, but he is not the guy for this hapless bunch. We need someone who can scramble, on purpose, and for his life. And we need a leader. I like the way Stanley handles himself out on the field. Play him, design the offense for what he can do, and what Herbert, and the other running backs can do, stop the side-side passing attack. Throw mid or deep, or don't throw, run a reverse once in a while, fight for first downs, run down the clock, play field position. All things that we simply do not do. The hell with style points we simply don't have the luxury.

Tom Keegan 4 years, 8 months ago

Beaty was offensive coordinator for one year at Rice, but other than that, you're right. Only coordinating he did was recruiting.

Tom Keegan 4 years, 8 months ago

Tom Osborne had many opportunities to give Gill OC job and never did. He never was OC before Buffalo hired him.

Barry Weiss 4 years, 8 months ago

to me, that spoke volumes, that Dr. Tom did not even move on Gill.

Greg Ledom 4 years, 8 months ago

Agree that Bender is a good kid but, your right; he doesn’t look confident, he doesn’t play confident and he doesn’t lead. Play Stanley.

Brett McCabe 4 years, 8 months ago

During the TV broadcast, two things caught my ear. The color guy said that Coach Campbell had come to ISU and put a big emphasis on three things; limiting fumbles, limiting penalties and form tackling.

Why does a coach who is trying to rebuild a program pick these three things as his points of emphasis?

First, they are all achievable goals. Second, athletes of almost any ability can master these skills. Third, when accomplished, these goals are measurable in the impact they have on the field. ISU is one of the leading programs in the country when it comes to not fumbling and not committing penalties. Today, they also showed how well they could tackle.

This is the kind of approach that a wise coach takes. He focuses on things that his kids can master, that will have a positive impact on the game, and that will become building blocks for other skills. It's also how ISU destroyed us today and has leapfrogged right past us.

Chris Browning 4 years, 8 months ago

Unfortunately, we are in a huge pickle. We can't fire Beatty in his third year of a rebuild, no matter how bad the play is. He has to go through his entire contract, because we are where we are for firing 2 coaches who simply couldn't get it done. Firing Zenger to me is a no brainier, but again we are in the middle of a stadium modification campaign. It would be tough for a new A.D. to step in a work the alums to get the necessary funding. David Booth is already in for $ 50 million, or 1/6 of what we need. Again another pickle

Sadly, our players are simply not good enough to play at this level, and if they were, we wouldn't be getting our backside handed to us week after week. There would be some level of competitiveness and progress, instead of a steady diet of double digits losses. We have 3-4 players who can play in this conference.

I think the players have checked out, especially after the horrible loss to Central Michigan. We were a double digit favorite and ended up losing by double home. That loss really took the steam out of our guys. A program showing improvement would have won that game 38-17, then following that up with a 34-24 road w against Ohio. An improved team would have beaten WVU or Tech and been competitive or won in Ames. We should be sitting at 4-2 after 6 games. Now we enter the hard part of our schedule and we are looking down the barrel of at least 5 40+ point losses.

Firing Mark Mangino was clearly a wrong move and for what...being a hard nosed SOB that demanded his players of being tougher than a $2 steak?!?!?!?

Jeff Coffman 4 years, 8 months ago

If you think Beaty is rebuilding, you and I have a separate opinion of what he is doing.

Tom Keegan 4 years, 8 months ago

You say that Beaty can't be fired because he's rebuilding and in same breath say that the players aren't good enough. Who's recruiting the players?

Brian Leslie 4 years, 8 months ago

I don't buy it. We are the worst D-1 football program, and we are going backwards this year as compared to last. No impartial observer can say that we are in the midst of a "rebuild"; we are in the middle of a re-devastation. Three seasons is enough to show at least competence, and there is no possible way you can think that Beaty will have this turned around in year five. I can live with firing Zenger, getting a new AD on board, and then that guy can spend a season finding the right coach. But it feels like a clean sweep is needed.

Brian Wilson 4 years, 8 months ago

SPOT ON! We cannot and should not fire Beaty. It will destroy KU and ruin the rebuilding. Juniors and Seniors have a much harder time transferring from a program. That is why in most situations when you fire a coach the program does not fall to much. However, KU's Junior Class this year is full of transfers and walk-ons. We have about 80 scholarship players and there are about 3 players in each class that were walkon's. We recruited over twenty players in each of the past two years. That leave 30 Juniors and Seniors on scholarship and a great many of those were transfers. So.....our depth sucks until the younger players mature. If we fire coach Beaty you can expect that half of the current Sophomores and Freshmen will leave. We need to be patient and let Beaty complete his contract and let's see what this year's Sophomore class does when they are Seniors. Once each of the classes are full with recruited players then you can afford to make the decision.

Thomas Green 4 years, 8 months ago

I believe the nuclear option is the only viable option. Question is, when do you drop the bomb? A post war plan has to be developed before hand...yes?

Brett McCabe 4 years, 8 months ago

That plan should be in full swing as we speak. I believe a quality coach can be found because much of the team returns, the stadium renovation is a dangling carrot, the locker room and training facilities are in place and the new athletic dorms will be in place for next year (I believe).

I'd let the guy from Cerner/Sporting KC, along with Booth and a few others lead the search behind the scenes with a consultant group. Time to put on a full court press and really go for it.

But don't bring me another image guy, bring me a proven builder. A proven worker. A proven pro.

Bob Forer 4 years, 8 months ago

This loss is on all the sycophants who thought Lew Perkins walked on water.

Bill McGovern 4 years, 8 months ago

they let Perkins push Mangino out and that's where the down spiral began.

Brett McCabe 4 years, 8 months ago

If you are KU, I think you need to be ALL IN on Craig Bohl right now. If Nebraska fires Riley, they'll probably look to Bohl (though Nebraska's hiring for football has been about as smart as KU's), in which case we lose.

However, the other jobs that might be out there might not look to Bohl. Mizzou probably gives Odom another year, Bielema might be gone from Arkansas but I wonder if an SEC school would hire a Wyoming coach? Tennessee? Probably the same problem. If Snyder retires, Bohl will take that job and we'll be getting beat by KSU for the next 15 years.

Bohl would be a great fit here. And here's a bonus, you could probably bring along the Wyoming A.D. if that's what it takes to get Bohl here. Those of you clamoring for a five-year window? I'd give it to Bohl no questions asked.

When I say ALL IN, you're going to have to bring several kitchen sinks. But this guy is absolutely the guy who will turn this program around in two years.

Chris DeWeese 4 years, 8 months ago

Craig Bohl is 18-26 while coaching at Wyoming. That's in the Mountain West. Are you sure he can make it in the B12?

Brett McCabe 4 years, 8 months ago

Trending up. Look at this year and last year.

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

It's a great question and to me the answer is NO! We have to be so scrutinizing at that point that even if he had a 30-14 record at Wyoming, we should be combing it over saying "Yeah, but...look at the conference." Im out on ANYONE that doesnt have on their resume that they either 1. Have a history of resurrecting a program in a major conference, 2. Coached at a prominent football school with success, or 3. Has the kind of name recognition that will have recruits beating a path to our door. Bohl has none of those.

Ed Noyes 4 years, 8 months ago

All the Hawks have to do is win 5 of the remaining six games, become bowl eligible and Beaty/Zenger are heroes. I thought the previous sentence was funny when I typed it but I can't come up with anything else to write that might make that true.

Robert Brock 4 years, 8 months ago

If Sheahon Zenger had any courage, he would do the right thing...RESIGN!

Steve Corder 4 years, 8 months ago

Is the talent this bad?

Are there disgruntled players poisoning from within that the head coach is clueless with which to deal? If so, it is not position coaches responsibility to manage.

There appears to be a few players giving their all, but too many are being horse manure competitors.

Painful to witness. Tom's "tricky situation" will melt away when donors close their check books.

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

Here's a crazy thought. Bring Mangino back.

He's available. He knows how to develop players. He knows how to rebuild a program. He's familiar with Kansas. He's impatient for success. He instills toughness. He's never satisfied with what's been accomplished. He knows football. The name "Mangino" will bring credibility with recruits.

It's interesting that the Beaty-orchestrated reacquaintance of Kansas with it's wrongly ousted coach allowed us to refocus our appreciation of him, and perhaps magnify it given the state of the program since his departure. In fact, an argument can be made that the return of M and M was the highlight of this season thus far, and might likely be at its end.

And what of ex-coaches who've returned to their programs after their successors haven't managed success? Go west down the road a piece and ask Snyder about that. The intelligence of Kansas State lies in not waiting 10 years to make the switch back.

Kansas' pride is not justified. Why roll the dice when something proven is available?

It's time to re-warm to an old idea. It's time to be smart. It's time to mend fences. I say this without apology:


Bill McGovern 4 years, 8 months ago

I agree, Mangino is a proven winner and does not accept anything less than 100% effort from his players and assistants. Even in his last season here he was 5 and 7! Can you imagine how great it would be to win 5 games?! Heck I would be happy winning 3 at this point. We've gotta start somewhere and Mangino IS that guy. KU, swallow your pride, open up your checkbook, bring some pizza and burgers and give the guy an offer he can't refuse! I want to be the Fighting Manginos again!

Lawrence McGlinn 4 years, 8 months ago

He had already lost the team at the end of 2009. I know desperation can cloud the thinking, but he is not the answer. He caught lightning in a bottle with an underrated quarterback and a favorable schedule, and it was a great year or so, but please let it go.

Bill McGovern 4 years, 8 months ago

I disagree. Only reason he was losing it at the end of 09 was because he had no support. He was the subject of a witch hunt, and Perkins burned his career and ego at the stake. He took us to FOUR Bowls, and won three out of four. I believe Mangino is the answer and I will not let it go.

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 8 months ago

Mangino's teams were always competitive - even before Reesing. I'm not sure what your definition of "the answer" is (12-1 every year?), but Mangino is without a doubt a far better answer than Beaty, Weis, or Gill. I'm tired of KU fans who turn down a good burger - while eating dog food - because they won't accept anything less than filet mignon. This is KU. Not Alabama. Not Ohio State. Not Notre Dame. Not OU. Like I've said before, even Bill Snyder (who many coaches consider one of the best ever), doesn't finish 11-2 every year. Why? Because KSU doesn't have the blue blood history. KU football fans need to accept the fact that even a great coach is probably going to hover around winning 50 - 60 % of the time at KU. Bill Snyder's winning percentage is 65%. Mangino was 51%. Beaty is 10%. Weis was 21%. Gill was 20%. I don't think Mangino is the only solution, but he is a known entity that is guaranteed to elevate the competitiveness of KU football. I'm fine with other guys like Pelini, Leavitt, or Bohl, too. I'm not fine with Beaty. There's no sign of progress halfway through year 3.

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

LEW PERKINS lost the team. Not Mangino. Revisionist history.

Len Shaffer 4 years, 8 months ago

Thank you, Lawrence, for being one of the few voices of reason on this board.

In addition to the team starting to go south, no one has ever addressed the fact that he was not just abusive to the team (and yes, he was ABUSIVE, not just tough), he was abusive to virtually everyone he met, including assistant coaches, secretaries, etc. The man had serious anger issues.

Surely we can find a tough, winning coach who doesn't go over the line and abuse everybody around him. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

Miles Nease 4 years, 8 months ago

Tom, Thank you for all that you have been doing to shed light on the incompetence of KU football. You seem to be the only one in the media that cares. So many of us longtime supporters of KU have given up and will no longer support the University, in any form, until something is done. That something starts with the firing of Zenger. I’m not big on the idea of assigning him to the WF, but if it gets him out of the AD role, I’ll take it.

KU has a problem when it comes to filling leadership positions. The candidate always has to have KU ties. That may be fine in some areas, but in football, having KU ties should automatically eliminate anyone from consideration. People with KU ties have hindered our program, since the beginning of time. Those without, for instance Mason and Mangino, actually had some success. Anyway, thanks for being the voice of the few KU football fans, left. Keep up the good work.

Brett McCabe 4 years, 8 months ago

I think that Tom's idea of shifting Zenger to WF to handle the stadium is pretty nimble thinking. It's kind of a best of both worlds scenario. Zenger has put a lot of time, energy and effort into KU, he knows the landscape, has built the relationship and could be given a good role that fits his skills.

Ryan Shelton 4 years, 8 months ago

Joe, I agree with everything you just said (as per usual) but Mangino's comments when he returned weren't inspiring. He actually said that he regrets putting in 100% with the football program because this kept him away from his family. As much as I would like to see him back, this is a man who now has his priorities in order.

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

I rather agree with you. However, every coach of a DI football program finds himself in the same position. And some of them are rather old. Bill Snyder for example. Mangino should return.

Brian Leslie 4 years, 8 months ago

Joe, think back to Mangino's physical condition in 2003 or in 2008. I don't think KU fans back then thought that Mangino would still be coaching in 2018; I know my friends and family didn't. We were hoping he didn't have a heart attack during a game, and I don't say that to be snarky. Now you're talking about him coaching for let's say 6 seasons starting in 2018. What are the odds that he is given a comprehensive physical test, with heart stress test and echocardiogram, and a doctor says "looking good, Mark, I think you can coach into your late 60s." He would be 62 next year.

Or read this article about how hard the separation was for his family. Do you think they are anxious for Mark to be moving back to Lawrence? Do you know that Lew Perkins lives in Lawrence? It would be beyond excruciating for his wife.

For multiple reasons, that ship has sailed. Maybe for the Beaty hiring timeframe there would have been the slightest chance of everything coming together on the Mangino side (obv. not with BGL), but not now. I hope that Mark has good health and can enjoy his sunset years.

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

Only a program with the luxury of not being currently where our program is or the daftness to remove great coaches from consideration can afford to let seaworthy ships leave commission.

  1. Mark Mangino's health is vastly improved from what it was in 2008, and it would be wrong for you to ignore that.

  2. You speak of the difficulty of the separation. In fact, the most enticing carrot Kansas could place in front of MM would be the opportunity to vindicate himself against the error of that separation. No man, when faced with the choice of righting a wrong, would dismiss the possibility out of hand so easily and without heavy consideration.

  3. As for as the strain of coaching at a Power 5 school, much less any other Division I program, NO COACH is immune to that. I put the challenge to you to name one coach who can boast that coaching at this level doesn't take a toll on his family. And yet men step up to do it.

Look, I don't know what his response would be if he were approached, but that is not the point. The point is that Kansas is in the position of having to play it as smartly as possible now, and that means putting a focus on only great options without limiting any of them. Mangino should be heavily considered is what Im saying.

Thomas Green 4 years, 8 months ago

I must profess I have not a clue as to whom, but I would agree a blue ribbon panel needs to be put in place to COMPLETELY evaluate who should be on the list.

Obviously, just because a particular candidate might make our list does not mean we would make theirs. That said, you don’t know unless you try, right? KU clearly can pay the dollars. We need someone proven who wants and craves this challenge. Someone who is so confident in their abilities they don’t consider it a suicide mission!

I agree the current landscape could put us in stiff competition for the coaches on our list. So, it’s imperative we get started NOW, not tomorrow or the next. NOW! I don’t even see the need to fire the coach yet, but let’s begin the process, behind closed doors if necessary but begin in earnest. PLEASE!

Chuck Baldwin 4 years, 8 months ago

The only thing that can fix this abysmal train wreck of a football program is a blank check to Nick Saban. We all know that’s no going to happen. I’m tired of this year after year, coach after coach.

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

The sheer fact that Mangino will probably not be considered and/or approached is a sign in itself of the ineptitude of the athletic department.

Chris DeWeese 4 years, 8 months ago

Agreed. This program is completely broken.

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

There is this thinking that "we can't go back to what we had before", or "that'll never happen."

My question is why that exists. There's nothing pre-determined that says we can't. Only emotions stand in the way. The blind, reason-less acceptance of a perspective that is not set in stone.

Len Shaffer 4 years, 8 months ago

No, Joe, it is not only about emotions. In fact, if Glen Mason wanted to come back I would be much more interested in that than in Mangino.

I explained above my reasons for opposing rehiring Mangino -- reasons that people continue to refuse to address.

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

I've addressed those reasons before, with other people. Nevertheless I'll readdress them here for your satisfaction. None of Mangino's faults rise to the level of a fireable offense. Offenses? Yes. Fireable? You're joking.

Charlie Gaughn 4 years, 8 months ago

I don't think anyone, including myself, could imagine how down this program was after Weis. He didn't recruit, he didn't coach. All he did was take a paycheck. As I've said many times, that hire by itself was grounds to excuse Zenger from his duties.

I had hoped what we would see out of Beaty is RECRUIT HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS AND REDSHIRT THEM! Yes, you for sure sacrifice 3 years of even hoping to be competitive but it's got to happen sometime. Let's see, this is his third year, and we're still trying to plug holes with transfers. How many QB's has he already recruited and Bender is the best we've got?

They call this the "air raid" offense. It's a pitiful excuse for a pocket passing attack with a weak offensive line. If you watch teams that know how to run "air raid" those quarterbacks are constantly rolling and looking. They have the ability to tuck and run when necessary. That put a ton of pressure on a defense. Standing back in the pocket while they drop 8 and rush 3, with our O-Line, is not going to be successful.

As for the stadium renovation, We should send Booth his money back and tell him we were just kidding. Unless he's got another $290 million or so laying around I have a feeling we're going to fall way short.

Bill Kackley 4 years, 8 months ago

I beg to differ. Bender is not the best we have

John Brazelton 4 years, 8 months ago

To see happens to a Big 12 Team that falls from the top to bottom, look at Baylor. Four seasons ago they were in the conversation for a National Title game. Then they HAD to fire their coach for obvious reasons. They lost three recruiting seasons in row. Went from recruiting 4-star athletes and challenging OU, Texas and Texas A&M to barely being able to get 3-star athletes. They are playing hard this year, but are 0-6. Firing KU football coaches every three years is not the solution to our problem. To Tom Keegan, you are a Sports Director at a small town newspaper, probably barely making $50K per year. What makes you think that a major university and sports department administration is going to follow your suggestions? Suggestions are like a$$holes, everyone has one.

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

Be fair, John. Tom's salary has nothing to do with nothing. People in sports who get paid ten times what he does at much bigger papers and television outlets have about as much influence as Tom with various sports teams. I mean it's not like Andy Reid is going to listen to Stephen A. Smith when it comes time to make decisions about his program. Salary and position within the sports media have nothing to do with it.

John Fitzgerald 4 years, 8 months ago

Your ignorant and irrational comments show me you know you’re wrong you’re just not man enough to admit it.

Brett McCabe 4 years, 8 months ago

John, firing inept coaches isn't the problem. Hiring inept coaches is the problem. I'm amazed that people think the problem is timing and not personnel.

Lawrence McGlinn 4 years, 8 months ago

Total agreement. It is not the firing. It's the hiring.

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 8 months ago

The media is power. Doesn't matter if Keegan volunteers for the LJW. The entire city of Lawrence is losing huge amounts of revenue because the KU football team is drawing so few fans (shops, restaurants, hotels, and associated local sales tax). I doubt Keegan's articles would be published if powers-that-be were against them.

Bill McGovern 4 years, 8 months ago

I think John Brazelton is Beaty or Zenger's ljworld account. Nice try!

Marius Rowlanski 4 years, 8 months ago

What did Tom do to your cornflakes this morning? Your anger is misplaced. You say firing the FB coaches is not the answer, so who should be accountable? Seems like just about anyone other than the coaching staff. BUT this team needs a new OC, DC, QB coach and am O-Line coach, to start with.

In 2014, we finished 9th, ahead of Iowa State but what a turnaround in such a short time period for ISU.

Is ISU a better place to play football?

I have seen an up-tick in recruiting but it hasn't materialized on the football field

John Kelley 4 years, 8 months ago

The Kansas Jayhawks have descended the ladder of mediocrity to stumble on to the throne of the Worst Team in the Power Five conferences.

Bill Kackley 4 years, 8 months ago

I personally am getting tired of all the people who are getting on Coach Bowen. Under the conditions his defense did a hell of a job yesterday. It wasnt until the game was basically over that they had any let down. Lets put the blame where it belongs. Just because Doug Meacham was successful elsewhere does not mean he is doing a good job here. Let's start with the quarterback position. There was a reason Bender didn't cut it at Washington State. He sucks. He stares down receivers, his passing is in consistent, the two times he did run yesterday he chickened out way to early to go into his slide, I guess he must be a good practice quarterback because they keep playing him even though it is obvious Carter Stanley would be a better choice. I could go on and on. Start critizing the right coach. We also get screwed by the Big 12 officials every game. Which hurts the hell out of a young inexperienced team. Example: they call block in the back on us un a questionable call on a punt return and just a few mintutes later on a block that was at its best the same as ours I felt it was somewhat worse, no call and Iowa State gets a 68 yard touchdown. The Texas Tech game they reviwe 6 plays in a little over a quarter 5 of the 6 went against us and 4 were wrong. Mabe the mistake was when they didnt hire Bowen as Head Coach.

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 8 months ago

Your complaints of the officiating reminded me of the good days when Mangino was coaching. In Mangino's 3rd season KU was going to beat a very good UT team (finished 11-1, 4th overall in Coaches Poll, Vince Young QB), but a questionable offensive pass interference penalty was called against KU. Mangino went ballistic. It prompted the famous post-game presser quote "dollar signs". Mangino was a tough-as-nails bear of a coach. A true leader. One of the best KU has ever had.

Bill McGovern 4 years, 8 months ago

Keegan is one of the only sports journalists who has the guts to say what needs to be said. Beaty is not working out. Zenger is not working out. Ever since Mangino was fired this program has gone down the toilet - and so has life it seems - my wife left me, my dog died, I spilled used motor oil on my driveway, I lost my job, and I'm overweight. KU football was the only thing I had to look forward to. Now I have nothing.

Tony Bandle 4 years, 8 months ago

WOW, Bill..I'm so sorry!

Give me your address and I'll send you a puppy, a Russian Mail Order Bride, a gallon of concrete stain remover and a diet program with a specialized diet.

Sorry man...can't help you with KU football however!!!

Marius Rowlanski 4 years, 8 months ago

Can I see the ad for the Russian Mail Order Bride? It's not for me, it's for my friend.

Freedman Moor 4 years, 8 months ago

How is this for sad? The only way to fix this program is to keep Beatty long enough to prove to coaches that actually can fix the program that Kansas has the patience to stick with a coach long enough to right the ship. Aside from his contract or his performance, the true hurdle here is optics. The ONLY way to dump Beatty now may be to completely wipe the slate clean by dumping Zenger as well.*

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 8 months ago

If you think keeping Beaty around is the only solution to fix this program then I agree that there is a "hurdle of optics".

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 8 months ago

Great coaches will take a job at KU if the money is right.

Freedman Moor 4 years, 8 months ago

"Great coaches will take a job at KU if the money is right." How has that worked out thus far? If throwing money at the problem was a viable solution, then we wouldn't be reading this article would we? Of course not, because history begs to differ. There are high profile openings every year in college football. No coach wants to be the next two-and-done at Kansas. Dumping Beatty (alone) would be a disaster for KU unless Zenger goes too and the slate is wiped clean.

Freedman Moor 4 years, 8 months ago

*If this scenario takes place, don't be surprised to see Self leave with them. College athletics HAS to be wearing thin on the man right now.

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 8 months ago

Ridiculous to think Self will leave KU if Zenger gets canned. Senseless fear mongering.

Matt Gauntt 4 years, 8 months ago

I've tried and tried to be positive. Tried to be patient. It's getting harder and harder.

I'm not ready to say that HC should be dumped now. A) what impact will that have on recruits and B) Who would take over and do any better? Wait til the end of the season.

Beatty has value. He knows recruiting. Bring in a great coach. Demote Beatty to recruiting coordinator and WR Coach, which is what he did at A&M.

Few options for HC:

  • Joe Moorhead, Offensive Coordinator, Penn State.
  • Dave Aranda, Defensive Coordinator, LSU
  • Brent Venables, Defensive Coodinator, Clemson

I sincerely hope that if we do go for a new HC, we don't do the same thing we have done for the last 10 years and go cheap with a little known coach and then wonder two years later why it didn't work.

Joe Baker 4 years, 8 months ago

Venables would be your best option from this list.

Joe Baker 4 years, 8 months ago

Lew Perkins screwed KU football. He pulled the pin and tossed the grenade into the football program to eliminate Mangino and KU allowed it. Now KU is paying for that personal move in a dear way. Many OU and even OSU fans are saying what a terrible mistake KU made. I tell them it was all the AD at that time who had a personal burr up his ass to destroy Mangino. Mangino didn't take Perkins' bullsh!t and never bowed to his East coast attitude. And the poster saying that Mangino had lightening in a bottle is a fool. Mangino was not lightening in a bottle. He was a proven coach and winner. He came from solid programs with solid head coaches. DAMN, some fans are stupid when it comes to football coaching. In fact, some fans on this board wouldn't know a good football coach if they came up and kissed their azz.

I for one just want KU to have a competitive season. It's not happening and NO coach worth their salt is going to even consider KU now. Gill was a great guy, but he just didn't have the coaching prowess. He was over his head. Weiss was a joke. KU will never have another Mangino. We can kiss that idea goodbye. I don't blame him either. I can only imagine what Mangino would have done with some of the talent we've had over the last few coaches. Remember too, Mangino had Geneo Grissom from Hutch High committed to KU. Then when Mangino was fired, Venables grabbed him to OU. Mangino was getting some big recruits too.

Lance Hobson 4 years, 8 months ago

Mangino wouldn’t have us back after what has been done to what he worked so hard to build. We’re stuck with the Lew Perkins curse and based on our recruiting rankings and a lot of other things we’ll have it for years and years. I just wish we were at least competitive. You could say that last season and a few others but not this year.

Bill McGovern 4 years, 8 months ago

The program has been in such a sad state for way too long. I agree with the above statement about moving Beaty to WR coach and recruiting coordinator, because he did well in that position. He is over his head as a head coach and it is showing.

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

Mark Mangino, regarding the head football coaching job at Kansas (Oct 11):

"Every facet of the program needs the head coach's attention every single day. Whether it's preparation for a game, film study, meetings, practice time, recruiting...communicating with the support staff, your trainer, your strength coach. Every day there should be conversations there and just keeping an eye on things and everybody needs to be on the same page. If anybody has an agenda other than what we have for the program then they shouldn't be there...they all have to be pulling that rope in the same direction. There are challenges at every program but there are significant challenges at there are many challenges there, but it's DOABLE! IT IS DOABLE!"

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

If you listen to this whole interview, Mark is asked whether he has pangs of interest in being on the sidelines again. He said he does miss it, he described what fun he had, and ended his answer talking about what he does now with his free time. But he never said he wouldn't return to coaching.

Joe Ross 4 years, 8 months ago

The athletic department needs to be in a scramble right now. I like the idea of keeping Zenger on for the WF. It's something I hadnt considered. There would not be a buyout for his contract and he's already established relationships with donors. A new AD with a proven record of good football hires should be announced in short order and the search for a new coach should begin in plenty of time to get the recruiting season underway. I'd attempt to retain Meachum on the strength of his coaching success and because of his relationship with the QBs we currently have in the stable, and Tony Hull because of his ability to recruit in a football hotbed. Besides, and here again, you avoid buyouts. But of course the new coach coming in would definitely want a say in that so you'd have to leave it up to him. In any case the wheels on this bus should be going 'round and 'round, because if you want to replace the AD and the head football coach, a lot will have to be done very quickly. Waiting until the end of the season is not an option in getting started. It puts too much important work to be done in a time crunch.

Bob Bailey 4 years, 8 months ago

See if you can hire Venables. Best suggestion by far. And pay themoney

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