Wednesday, February 12, 2014

Self: Injured Embiid shut down for days, at least

Kansas State forward Thomas Gipson comes down from a dunk before Kansas players Joel Embiid, left, Perry Ellis and Wayne Selden during the second half on Monday, Feb. 10, 2014 at Bramlage Coliseum.

Kansas State forward Thomas Gipson comes down from a dunk before Kansas players Joel Embiid, left, Perry Ellis and Wayne Selden during the second half on Monday, Feb. 10, 2014 at Bramlage Coliseum.


Rest and rehab is ahead for Kansas University freshman Joel Embiid for at least the next couple days as the 7-footer recovers from an aching knee and sore back.

“He definitely will not practice. The earliest he’d practice is Friday,” KU coach Bill Self said Tuesday night. “We don’t know yet. We’ll see how he feels day to day,” Self added, asked if Embiid would play in Saturday’s 3 p.m., home game against TCU.

Earlier, on his “Hawk Talk” radio show, Self said Embiid had been laboring greatly He sprained his knee in the TCU game on Jan. 25. He tweaked his back at the end of the West Virginia game Saturday.

“Jo is obviously a fabulous player. ... His body does not feel good. He has no strength. He winces when he moves. We see it,” Self said. “Of course we’re going to shut him down for a while.”

MRIs have shown no damage, Self said.

“That thing (injury) that he had against TCU ... if fans remember, we had doctors call us (after watching film) and say, ‘Well, he had to tear his ACL when he did it.’ If he wasn’t a rubber-band man, it could have easily happened,” Self said. “What it is, it’s a serious bone bruise. Every time he walks, it hurts. But it’s nothing structurally he couldn’t deal with. Now the pain has settled in behind his knee a little bit in his hamstring area. There’s swelling and tightness. He doesn’t move near as well. He’s not near as explosive. You add in the back situation ... fortunately it’s nothing that can’t heal up with a little bit of time. He’ll get a lot of treatment here in the next few days and hopefully get his legs back under him.

“If you could imagine a running back who relies on his speed to have a high ankle sprain and is 90 percent and not 100 percent ... you can’t play. You are not effective. That’s been the case with Jo. He tried yesterday (in playing 18 minutes in overtime loss at Kansas State). Whenever he tells me, ‘Coach when I get tired, that’s when I’m really hurting,’ I tell him, ‘Well, don’t get tired, then,’” Self added with a laugh. “It doesn’t exactly work like that.”

Traylor practicing with team: Self said he had not yet decided if red-shirt sophomore Jamari Traylor would miss a second game because of disciplinary reasons. “He’s practicing,” Self said.

Self’s only comment has been that Traylor is out because of “irresponsible behavior.”

Self on KU’s 85-82 defeat in Manhattan: “We didn’t guard anybody. We were horrible defensively, and that’s being kind. It was a step backwards defensively. We had been getting better. It all comes down to toughness level. We didn’t demonstrate as much as you need to beat a good team at (its) home.”


Tony Bandle 8 years, 7 months ago


1] Sit Jo Jo for the TCU game at home..put him in street clothes to resist the temptation to use him...if we can't beat TCU in Allen with the rest of the roster, we don't deserve to be champions.

2] Reinstall Jamari but make it clear that if there is one more offense, he is on the end of the bench for the rest of the year. [I am assuming "irresponsible behavior" translates into missing classes or homework assignments].

3] Regarding Monday, "not guarding anybody" was trumped in my opinion by KU playing with a lot less desire than KSU.

4] Jo Jo please look at your you honestly believe you can hold up against 270 pound men almost your same height night after night?? Please consdider giving yourself another year to grow by staying at Kansas.

5] Think of Jo Jo's career this way.....he is playing his fourth year of basketball at an elite Division One college level . ...many of the players around him had already played their fourth year in grade school!!

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

The success of the remainder of the Kansas basketball will in large part rest on Black’s performance. Embiid’s recuperation will probably take up to 3 weeks, maybe 4.
Since Black himself must have some lingering effects of his own ankle injury, Self will need to be creative with his bench to find a new 4-5 rotation. Self’s primary objectives this week will be:

   A.   Find combinations to strengthen our D.
   B.   Get more PT for shooters

My bet is we see more of Wiggins at the 4 with Greene pulling down more PT at the 3. Wiggins will also provide some defensive help for Black for better rim protection. After nearly 2 years, it is clear D is not in Ellis’s DNA.

Speaking of defensive DNA, after nearly 3 years, Tharpe is hopeless on D. Our opponents run O designed to get open shots or isolation on Tharpe. Although the O he brings has been critical to several wins, he’s just too much of a defensive liability to take into the NCAA Tournament. CF has shown some D toughness and is always a deep scoring threat, more so than Tharpe. I bet we see CF a lot more at the point or the 2. I’d love to see Self experiment the next two weeks (TCU and TTU) with Selden at the 1 and CF at the 2. A line up of Selden, Frankamp, Greene, Wiggins, and Black should be effective.
I’m not advocating Ellis be moved to a reserve, just backup combo options that could work that might make for better interior defense while providing more outside shooting threats. I’m still not sold on either Frankamp’s or especially Greene’s defensive abilities but both have earned more PT and a closer look.

PS: I hope Self sits Traylor for the TCU game for his actions that largely contributed to the KSU loss. I’m still a huge AWIII fan but ….

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree 100% on Ellis and Tharpe. When we need stops they should not be in the game. Conner and Greene should be. There is no hope we get better on D without a rotation change, or Self adding some zone D, which with his DNA is hard for him to do. Traylor - I would like to know what happened, but he has made some mistakes in the past, so 2 games might be warranted regardless. It puzzles me how these young men lose sight of the opportunity they have and risk all of it for some Bravado. There is nothing anyone could say to me that would change my mind - I could walk away repeating I play for a National Powerhouse Program, you on the other hand are one of 30,000 students trying to pass COM1.

Joe Joseph 8 years, 7 months ago

Not sure this is the time to be experimenting with the roster. The traditional starting five has already proven to be the best option. Perry was the only starter who had a solid game against K-State. This team needs two starters to perform well every game. If that's the case, chalk it up as a win. Every time.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

If we do not change anything in our defensive approach we will end up with 10 losses for the season at least. Possibly with no championships at all to show for it. We can start the traditional starting 5, but if we need stops Tharpe and Ellis need to come out and we go to a defensive stance. Let Wiggins, Bigs be the offense. Greens and Francamp take open 3's for offense. We cannot count on two starters to perform well every night. Defense is the focus right now.

Cary Ediger 8 years, 7 months ago

We had a bad game on the road, the officiating was horrible... (I don't mind if they are bad as long as they are consistent. At one point in the 2nd half the fouls were 8-2, putting the officials in a position to call fouls on KU late get them "equal".)

We were missing 2 players, Embiid and Traylor. 7 Freshmen on the team playing an away game in a very loud place. We are young.

The thing that worries me the most about this team is: Who is that guy that is going to say "We need to score this time down and I am going to make that happen" A Sherron Collins, Jeff Boschee, Mario Chalmers type player.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

The announcers were right, Kansas had barely any fouls called on them because they did not get close enough to anyone on defense to foul them. That's sign #1 that the defensive intensity was not there.

Len Shaffer 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree with everything you say, Suzi, except for CF being more of a deep threat than Tharpe. Tharpe has hit many clutch shots in the last couple of years, and his percentage from 3-point range is excellent.

CF might have the POTENTIAL to be more of a deep threat, but he hasn't shown it consistently enough yet to say that he's there.

As for Cary's question re who the go-to guy should be, I would say that Tharpe is the guy to take the big shot. The problem, of course, as Suzi points out, is that his defensive liabilities make up for that. But if I had to pick one player on the team to take a big shot at this point, I would choose Tharpe.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

Exactly why Self needs to give Frankamp some more PT. Let's see what he can do when he gets comfortable with PT. It has got to be really hard to come in, take 1 shot, then out...not taking another shot for a couple of games.

Self has to take the time over the next couple of games to see how much he has developed.

Steve Zimmerman 8 years, 7 months ago

Been saying that for years.. I still don't get it why HCBS is a fan of yanking a YOUNG player for taking/missing 1 shot - well, arguably seen by others as "bad decision making". I meant, CF has been to international stage, an even wider audience. CF was under Coach K, was the best scorer throughout the whole event.

Go figure.

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 7 months ago

CF played on Team USA U17 in 2012 under Don Showalter of Mid-Prairie (Wellman, Iowa). Not exactly Coach K

Steve Zimmerman 8 years, 7 months ago

My bad. I got it mixed up. But that made it look even worse.

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 7 months ago

That was an elite team though with Jabari Parker, Tyus & Jahlil, Dakari Johnson, Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow

Erich Hartmann 8 years, 7 months ago

The SINGLE most alarming inconsistency of this team is bad defense. Close behind is inconsistent intensity/effort level. Some, or alot, of this is due to freshman, but not in the case of Naa.

Let me put it another way: I will base my expectations for this year's team on if they can achieve any consistency defensively. Bill Self's system will not work if you cant make the opponent take rushed or low% shots. What happens on the defensive end is HALF the game of basketball-- and Bill Self knows that, its just that these babyHawks cant figure it out fast enough. They had better, in order to save their season.

We really could have used Traylor at both ends of the floor!

Erich Hartmann 8 years, 7 months ago

You score 82pts against KSU anywhere (Lawrence, Manhattan, KC, Africa, etc...), you should beat them. They are no offensive juggernaut. But we made them look good. How many layups did they get? Not 1 stop in OT, which is pathetic. They shot over 40%FG 1st half, over 50% in the 2nd half, and they shot 66%FG in the OT. Temper your expectations, folks, as that is recipe for disaster in any basketball game. You gotta believe opposing coaches have scouted what TX and KSU did to us.

Look, I'm as crimson&blue a KU alum as I can be, following KU bball (&ftball now) religiously...but I have tempered my expectations on this season, still hoping the kids figure out the D-end...

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

My "expectations" are that they will lose to the first team they face that has tough, physical interior players. this is really the only type of team that Kansas has shown to have a match up problem with.

My HOPE is that we luck out, never play one and roll to the national title. There really aren't a ton of them out there and the few there are have enough issues of their own that they could get picked off before they meet Kansas so it could definitely happen. It will once again be a crap shoot come tourney time.

Dale Stringer 8 years, 7 months ago

I don't remember how Spradling got all his points. Then again, I wasn't paying attention to him until we put Frankamp on him. Did he score any over Connor?

Ryan Shelton 8 years, 7 months ago

Most of Spradling's points were from kickouts when we doubled down either inside or at the top of the key. He was left open over towards the corner many times. That's his bread and butter.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Sweet 16 team is the best we can hope for at this point. We can beat anyone one night, and be beaten by anyone the next. Its to late in the season to think we are going to improve our defense without changing the rotation. We cannot protect the rim without Joel, our guards get beat repeatedly for 3's, its just not a championship teams defense. I agree with Suzi above, Tharpe is killing us on D, Francamp is the better option. Mason is showing he is not ready. Due to this I hope Self can swallow his pride and throw in some sort of Zone, Press, junk defense to mask our short comings. If we stay the same course we have no chance in the NCAA's.

Ryan Shelton 8 years, 7 months ago

A lot of people are saying that this is a Sweet 16 team at best. Remember that we ripped off 7 in a row at the beginning of conference against very good competition. We can get on a roll at any time, especially with a healthy Embiid.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

That good competition in conference early is looking suspect now, almost none of them are ranked today. We have 3 tough games left in conf. TX, @ WV, @ OKS. With only a 1 game lead I am still not sure if we can win the B12. If we face a team with strong guards, and that team scores on us, we are going to have a tough time to win that game. We will face solid guards for most of the games in the NCAA. If nothing changes we might not make it out of the third round.

Rich Hetherington 8 years, 7 months ago

If we win our home games against Texas and Oklahoma, I think the B12 is locked up! If we lose either of those games, the team that beats us will have an excellent shot of at least sneaking up for a tie... and really a tie would be fine. No one is talking about our 9 year streak being any less convincing with 3 of them being shared so far.

Mick Allen 8 years, 7 months ago

None of them are ranked because of the "good competition" in conference. In all rankings the Big 12 is rated as the toughest or second toughest basketball conference in the country.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Disagree, they were over rated. Baylor and OKS come on, they are close to missing the NCAA, they just are not playing well. We are still rated high now due to surprises OK and TX. So we ripped off 7 in row to start, we really only beat a couple of good teams the other teams were not that good and that might be NIT bound.

There is no Roll coming unless it is with the salad they order at lunch. This late in the season, good teams are playing sound ball, maybe getting beat, but not beating themselves. We can't stop anyone. Houston we have a BIG problem.

Mark Lindrud 8 years, 7 months ago

Let's keep in mind that these ranked teams had to play each other, which means they are going to lose so the rankings will fluctuate weekly. I guess we can say our competition isn't that good like Arizona who barely plays a ranked team in their conference. Trust me, we are getting tested. We have the #1 SOS in the nation so I don't know what more you want in that regard. For us to go far in March we need to play solid D, rebound and be healthy.

Erich Hartmann 8 years, 7 months ago

It seems after 10yrs, that Self's coaching has had an effect on the fanbase (see above). Defense, defense, defense. "Make the other guy ugly" (as Self says...). This is a case of understanding by subtraction (see what's missing), and Self's whole concept makes sense. Our D is woefully inadequate for a deep tourney run.

No transition break opportunities if you cannot get strips or steals, or rebounds.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

I got my D orientation living in Chicago during the Jordan years. MJ, Pippen, Rodman...and Jackson took alot of pride in shutting down other teams. Every game, usually at the beginning of the second half the Bulls would come out and totally shut down teams and go on a 23-4 run, or something like that. The balance of the game was only running out the clock trading baskets. You never wanted to be stuck at the concession stands and miss the "kill" time.

Roy used to bring the team to Chicago play frequently. It was always a shock to see the huge inferiortiy gap between the D played by an elite D1 team like Kansas...and an elite NBA team. Self brought in the toughness to play D but never had a collection of the top elite players. Now that he's getting them, I hope he continues.

I'll bet real money when the NBA draft comes around, Wiggins D ability will be widely cited. Parket , Gordon, Randall, Vonleh, etc are nowhere near Wiggins when it comes to D .... let alone athletic ability.

Aaron Paisley 8 years, 7 months ago

Something being overlooked is that KU had a pretty bad night by just about all accounts, but they still managed to force OT on the road against a rival when they played pretty good. This is not a bad KSU team either, they will be in the tournament and probably be in the 6-8 seed range. This a KU team more than capable of making a very deep run in the tournament and winning an NCAA title this year.

Len Shaffer 8 years, 7 months ago

You said it, Aaron. People seem to conveniently forget how often NCAA champions have not even won their conference.

The key is the health of Joel, because the defense is infinitely better if he's playing at full strength. If he's healthy going into the tournament, KU has as good a chance as anyone.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Wow... they tied the game cause we played out of our minds the last 2 minutes. We looked like we were shot out of a cannon. That was effort, pure desperation, why was that missing the previous 38 mins, how does that happen when playing a rival? Good teams do not put themselves in that position. With our defense playing like this we will exit by the NCAA 3rd round if not earlier. Good teams will have a week to prepare for us, they will exploit Tharpe to penetrate or hit 3"s all night long, and will attack inside without Joel in the game when he sits. We will not be a #1 seed, maybe as low as 3 or 4 if we lose 3 more games before the tourny, very possible. There is nothing I see that says Deep Run with this team. Nothing.

Sean Doherty 8 years, 7 months ago

Well since this is the most recent post on Kusports I'll share news that should have already been covered by the rest of KU fans and at the least the writers of this website. Am I the only one who loves KU Basketball so much that I'm the first person to notice that our recruit, Rashad Vaughn, chose UNLV over KU? You clowns spend all your time blowing airbags up your arse that you don't realize when we loose a recruit? No wonder you clowns shut down KU fans hypothetical opinions about the future. You're worse then Kentucky you damn KU homers. Where's the GD love? Where are the old school fans who Follow KU and know what's going on? Well those people are not at this link: These people are putting their bets in their shoes and don't understand what is going on outside of their selfish minds. Wake up you clowns who hated on me. For telling opinions and truths. I'm going to leave it at this and if you shudder and hate on a realist KU fan, guess what, KU fans only can resort in treating you as UK fans. UK fans will hurt you mentally if you don't believe in their same ideas. The clowns I just linked you all to are the exact people KU fans hate UK clowns for. Moral of this story, don't be a clown. Lets work with KU. Lets Support KU. No matter what. Or be a clown and join Kentucky. You're either smart or a clown. You're either KU or a clown. What do you want to do?

RJ King 8 years, 7 months ago

Don't you love farce?

My fault, I fear.

I thought that you'd want what I want...

Sorry, my dear!

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

I sure hope you are joking around, if not please seek help.

Vaughn was never coming to KU, so no loss there. Homers, Love, Clowns, wow... I dont put bets in my shoes either lol.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 7 months ago

Sean, I'm sorry you missed the memo, but Mr,Vaughn dropped us from his recruitment list about two weeks ago, but thanks for your most informative and inspirational post.

Mark Lindrud 8 years, 7 months ago

You realize sean we don't have any scholarships to give at the moment, right? Hard to lose a recruit that we currently do not have a space for, which makes it logical that if a kid picks someone else who has a spot, he is going to do it. So, sean, maybe you need to get caught up on KU information and make sure you sean know what is going on, oh and stop trolling.

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