Oklahoma defeats Kansas, 72-66

  • 3 p.m., Feb. 9, 2013
  • Lloyd Noble Center, Norman, OK

Saturday, February 9, 2013

Three and OUch: Jayhawks’ skid continues with road loss to Sooners

Kansas guard Naadir Tharpe hangs his head as he and Andrew White make their way to the lockerroom after the Jayhawks' 72-66 loss to Oklahoma on Saturday, Feb. 9, 2013 at Noble Center in Norman, Oklahoma. The loss is the Jayhawks' third-straight.

Kansas guard Naadir Tharpe hangs his head as he and Andrew White make their way to the lockerroom after the Jayhawks' 72-66 loss to Oklahoma on Saturday, Feb. 9, 2013 at Noble Center in Norman, Oklahoma. The loss is the Jayhawks' third-straight.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self talks after loss to Oklahoma

Kansas coach Bill Self talks after his team's 72-66 loss to Oklahoma on Feb. 9, 2013.

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Box score


— Not in the best mood after his Kansas University basketball team’s third loss in the past eight days, Bill Self nonetheless smiled when asked how his team’s current losing streak compares to the last three-bagger — back in 2004-05.

“I can’t remember what happened last week let alone what happened in 2005. That may have been when we were all freshmen,” Self recalled on Saturday after the Jayhawks’ 72-66 loss to Oklahoma in Noble Center.

The loss, coupled with a home setback to Oklahoma State on Feb. 2 and road defeat at TCU Wednesday, gave (19-4, 7-3) KU three straight defeats for the first time since losses to Texas Tech, Iowa State and Oklahoma from Feb. 14-21, 2005.

That was when Wayne Simien, Keith Langford and Aaron Miles were seniors.

“We hadn’t lost two in a row since 2006. Obviously three in a row is not good,” Self said. “This game today ... I am not leaving here disgusted with my team at all. It’s the same result on the scoreboard, but it was a much better performance today. Fans can think what they want to. This was not a major upset today,” he added after falling to the (15-7, 6-4) Sooners.

“The upsets were losing at home (to OSU) and at TCU. This was going to be a coin-flip game no matter what, especially catching an OU team that shot well.”

The Sooners, in fact, hit 55.6 percent of their shots the first half in building a 38-34 halftime lead. By game’s end, the percent mark had dipped to 44.8. However, the Sooners hit some huge long-range bombs when it counted down the stretch.

“They hit shots today. It was frustrating but what can you do? They made shots. That’s about it,” senior center Jeff Withey said after scoring 14 points and grabbing six rebounds.

KU, which trailed by nine, 57-48, with 9:21 minutes to play, rallied to within one point thanks in part to a triangle-and-two defense, 57-56, with 4:59 left. That’s when Amath M’Baye (eight points, 2-4 from three) stroked a three to give the Sooners a four-point advantage at 4:41.

With the score 60-59 (Travis Releford missed a back end of a one-and-one that could have tied the score at 4:12), Steven Pledger (15 points, 6-14 shooting) stroked a three to up the margin to four again at 3:51.

Next, with the score 63-61 following a Withey basket at 1:37, Je’lon Hornbeak (seven points) stroked a three to make it 66-61 at 1:21.

KU did get it within two (68-66) at :15.7, but Hornbeak hit two free throws to put it away.

“Our triangle-and-two was pretty good late. It got us back in it and gave us a chance,” Self said. “Hornbeak made a huge shot. We had a chance in traps to get a couple deflections. A lot of close things today didn’t go our way. It was a better effort. Our guys will leave here not feeling good but better than the last two games.”

One negative on Saturday was free throw shooting. The Jayhawks, who hit 46.3 percent of their floor shots and five of 15 threes, made 11 of 20 free throws to OU’s 13 of 16.

“You don’t make your free throws on the road ... that was as big a reason we didn’t win the game as any,” Self said.

Ben McLemore led the Jayhawks with 15 points and Elijah Johnson had 10 points. Releford nearly had a double-double with eight points and nine rebounds, but missed three of four free throws as OU snapped a 10-game losing streak versus KU and four-game losing streak in Noble.

The loss moved KU into a tie for second place with (7-3) Oklahoma State heading into Monday’s 8 p.m. game against first-place Kansas State (8-2) in Allen Fieldhouse.

“From a team standpoint, I hope the guys leave here down but not so down to the point where it’s broken,” Self said. “It’d definitely not good, but it’s not broken.

“We need our fans,” Self added. “I am not one to beg very often. I am not begging now. Our team has been stung a little bit — 19-4 isn’t the worst record we’ve ever had at this stage. We’ve had a great year. We’ve had a crappy week, but we can still get it back. If we win Monday we’ll be tied for the league lead. If not we’ll be looking up and put ourselves in position it’ll be very hard to catch up.”

The bottom line ... “ I hate to say this but there’s a lot of teams in the country who have lost two or three in a row and a lot of teams in the country struggle away from home,” Self said. “We didn’t make enough plays to win, but we competed hard. Give OU credit. They controlled the game from the start.”


okiedave 9 years, 4 months ago

Bill's son is not necessarily D-1 talent, but nice to have the opportunity play BB at Kansas. Looks great on a resume. Nothing wrong with a Dad helping out the kid if the opportunity is there.

Edward Daub 9 years, 4 months ago

Niko Roberts is quicker and a better ball handler.

JayHok 9 years, 4 months ago

Losing Peters was a major loss early on. Complete credit to Self's staff and players to get to 19-1, 7-0 in conference. To think KU was a shot from getting into OT vs TCU and OSU is a credit to the team while still playing pretty poor basketball. One layup from being a 2 point game against OU with 14 seconds to play. Three losses is not a high point for us. Not our standards. I'm pretty amazed at what we've been able to do to this point even with these heartbreaking losses. Looking forward to EJ getting his mojo back. We're behind you guys, all of you, coaches and players! RCJ

JayHok 9 years, 4 months ago

Sorry this post went to the wrong spot. Point is, Peters was ready to give some quality time at the four spot. Credit to all. Don't like the losses. But to get to 19-1 after losing Peters and redshirting Lucas. Who would have predicted.

Martin Rosenblum 9 years, 4 months ago

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okiedave 9 years, 4 months ago

OU is a difficult place to play and KU often has lost in Norman and Stillwater with good teams. The TCU loss is an out-of-the-body experience, but the OSU loss and OU loss do not concern me. If we can win in Stillwater, we split with the Oklahoma teams. We lost to OU at home and in Norman in the year of our national championship in '88.

r1wigs 9 years, 4 months ago

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Kristen Downing 9 years, 4 months ago

I do believe it is more than a bad week, but of course I will keep supporting KU. I think teams have improved, figured out how to guard Withey and Ben and no one esle has stepped up on our team(yet). I have absolutely no explanation for the TCU game, the turnovers(Withey today)the free throw shooting or not using the zone more often. After watching KState tonight, I believe they will beat us. We just don't have the leadership to shake off these kind of losses. I am now hoping for no more than seven losses and that the seniors get to play in the NCAA tourney. They deserve that. I actually don't mind shaking the Big 12 winning streak monkey off KU's back. I'm tired of hearing about it and definitely too much pressure for this group.

Andrew Dunlap 9 years, 4 months ago

think about it, this team is the leftovers of a NBA studded team of 2 years ago. You've got 2 transfers, 2 redshirts and a role playing pg in EJ. this team is not supposed to be an elite team. You've only got 2 starters that are playing their natural positions- Whithey snd Mclemore. EJ is not really a point guard. Kevin Young was not a top recruit out of high school and transferred in. On top of that we had a mediocre recruiting class- (Thorpe and Traylor) and a freshman class that isn't much better. So wow! we are going to win 25 games, make the tournament, still in the hunt for league title. These other teams have not been able to beat us in decades, so it;s a big deal to them. they just need to get back to the basics, accepting the fact that they are not that talented. The fans need to lower their expectations for a while, maybe a couple of years until we rebuild the program.

Phoggy_Notion 9 years, 4 months ago

laughable post. Go support Kentucky if you are so concerned about recruiting rankings. You were probably spewing the same thing about last year's team.

Gerry Butler 9 years, 4 months ago

traylor and thorpe were not together. ben mc and traylor were together both were partial qualifers both had to sit out together both are considered freshman. nadir is a soph. but thanks for the imput

6hawks 9 years, 4 months ago

Hang in there Hawks, we're still with you.

mimisluv 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree 100%!!! Our guys are just in a slump, but still are awesome! People need to lay off Elijah!! He is doing his best! He is a awesome member of our team! EVERYONE of our guys is having a slump, not just Elijah! They will all get out of this set back and come back with avengance and show them all what KU is about! Go KU Team! We luv You!!!!!

planojayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Wild Bill has decided to go all in with EJ as the main PG.

And you think TRel or Jeff will step up to be the leader? I don't think so.

Let's hope EJ can come out his slump soon. Otherwise, get ready more many more loses and an early exit from the tournament.

Gerry Butler 9 years, 4 months ago

Elijah just seems like he continues to make the same mistakes over and over. very frustrating, i will continue to support the kid, its hard, i mean i know its not like he does these things on purpose, i just feel that his confidenence is totally gone he like i believe the entire team is a shell of what they were earlier this season, they look like a deer caught in car headlights, like i saw someone else post its like they can't get rid of the ball fast enough when passed to them they are so afraid of making a mistake. they have no leadership right now, no one willing to step up and say give me the ball let me take care of this no one wanting to take charge carry this team during ruff times. thats where our seniors need to but no one there. yesterday our offense was a LITTLE BETTER nd i stress a little but our DEFENSE especially in the first half, where was it? very non agressive like i have seen in the past again frustrating. like a OH-LAY defense waving a hand at a shooters belly very non chalant my god at least try and get a hand up in the guys face, so many times where the shooter was like shooting in warm ups no one even close to the shooter of half hearted attempt thats whats frustrating

mimisluv 9 years, 4 months ago

Elijah is not Bad!! All of our guys have been having a hard time. Elijah is a awesome team member! He is a valuable part of our team! Lay off him! Our guys will come back and show everyone what KU is about, #1!!!!! Go KU!

Gerry Butler 9 years, 4 months ago

elijah is not bad, but right now elijah sure is not good. i have stood up for this kid probably more then you will ever know. but i also know that you can't sit there and tell me and whoever else that he does not continue to make the same mistakes. sloppy passes, dribbling the ball off his leg and or foot, over penetrating out of control and ending up with no where to go or unable to make a play from over penetration and out of control, un able lately to hit the shot when its needed the most, or unable to hit until the game is already decided. ya i think he needs to be on the floor, just think at this point that he is playin in wrong position, needs to be off guard, i think our line up and i'm sure their are people that will dissagree, but i think our starting five right now needs to be tharpe, johnson, releford, whithey, and ben mc. like people have said before anyways its not who starts the game but who is in at the finish, not to crap little green apples young still sees plent of game time, ellis right now is not the answer

chriz 9 years, 4 months ago

“They hit shots today. It was frustrating but what can you do? They made shots. That’s about it,” senior center Jeff Withey said.

That's fine, but if you leave them wide open, then yeah, they're gonna make shots. What's happened to our defense?! I know they're pulling Withey away from the basket, but other teams have done that before and we came out okay.

This is pretty messed up.

planojayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

He is a great shot blocker around the rim, yet he won't even put up his hands, let alone leaving the man he guard with wide open space, like he only can play defense around the rim.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

Most of the time it was Withey's fault...sometimes Young's.

planojayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

11 - 20 FTM - A. Really?

4 more FTM + 1 more 3 pt made = 7 pts => KU won by 1 pt, 73 - 72.

EJ 3 - 11 FGM - A.

If a few of these FGA was shot attempt by Ben, I am very sure that Ben would at least gotten a 3 out of these.

bradh 9 years, 4 months ago

I thought if we'd made more of our FTs early on that it would have put more pressure on OU too. We also lost the rebounding war. While the loss isn't fun, I did think our team played like a basketball team again, unlike the OSU and TCU games where they looked like an apathetic team playing keep away, not basketball. Looks like they're over their funk and I'm glad to see it.

LAJayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

It's pretty easy to make those calls when just looking at the stat sheet. Setting aside the fact that we missed way too many free throws (especially for a road game) for a moment, I do agree that Ben should have had more of EJ's shot attempts (or Withey, or Naadir for that matter, as he actually shot pretty well yesterday). HOWEVER, there is a pretty obvious strategic reason why that was the case.

Put yourself in the opponents shoes for a moment. You're facing a scoring point guard who is in maybe the biggest slump in all of college basketball, and you also have a shooting guard who is one of the best scorers in the league, and had been shooting 50% from 3 during conference play. Who do you heavily guard and at the expense of who else? Add to that the fact that defenses need to take away as many attempts from Withey as they can, and you have a recipe for EJ being open a lot. So, like it or not, we need production from that position. You then add to that the fact that the book is written on BMac (he's a better jump shooter coming off of screens than he is a driver, and he can't really use his left hand), and it becomes even harder for Ben to get good open looks.

We likely can figure out a way to win games with EJ continuing to slump (or sitting on the bench), but we won't be a serious threat until he breaks out of the funk (if he does). We simply don't have other players who can create shots and offense like he can. The reason why Coach will ride him out is because this team will go as far as EJ will take us. And, unfortunately, I don't know any other way of breaking out of a slump than to keep shooting. Not necessarily 11 to 15 times a game, but he still needs to drive and try to score, and he needs to spot up from outside. The shots will start to fall.

I just hope it's sooner rather than later.

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

This team is desparately missing that guy with a killer instinct that played with a chip on his shoulder and rubbed off on his teammates and sadly that's not something that can be developed overnight. Tyshawn and T-Rob both had that and even when they weren't playing well, that attitude still rubbed off on the rest of the team. Hopefully one of the incoming freshmen does have that attitude because next years team needs someone who is a mean SOB or KU very well could be flirting with the bubble next year. AW3 or Rio Adams feeling slighted about a lack of playing time this year could do the trick as well of developing someone with some cajones next year as well.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

For next year - Selden has "that" in him.

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

It remains to be seen if he has that trait at the college level though but hopefully Seldon does bring an attitude to KU in a good way.

planojayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

“They hit shots today. It was frustrating but what can you do? They made shots. That’s about it,” senior center Jeff Withey said after scoring 14 points and grabbing six rebounds.

Uh Jeff, put up your hands and not leave so much open space when you were guarding some of those made shot would be a good start on what you can do.

Also, 5 TOs? So go up stronger and more aggressive to the basket. That is what you can do.

JayDocMD 9 years, 4 months ago

This is the worst string of games with KU basketball I can recall and I've been pretty vocal about my displeasure. It's very disappointing for us fans, but how much more so for the players?

This team needs a loud home crowd on Monday to remind our players we are behind them no matter what, and to remind K-state of their place in this state and conference.

Come Monday, let's do all we can as fans to help them leave this funk behind in The Phog.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

I felt sorry for White & Traylor not getting mins., they'd seemed to have earned

jhwkr542 9 years, 4 months ago

You must be forgetting these games:

This team actually reminds me of Sherron's senior year (lost to NIU):

Sherron = EJ Aldrich = Withey Xavier = McLemore

In the NIU game they lost, Sherron shot 4-15 (0-6 on 3s). Sound familiar to anyone's lines on this year's team?

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 4 months ago

There's some validity to that comparison. Aldrich's offense really didn't come around the way it looked it would for the '10 season after showing big improvements in '09. Collins and EJ are obviously different players, the comparison of Collins being the go to scorer and BMac might be more relevant in that BMac has had a rough couple games/shooting lines. Perhaps BMac being the leading scorer will push him to round out his game more than X did and be more assertive in the tourney. On the flipside having backup scoreres like EJ and TRele is key 'cause they shouldn't back down come NCAA time. Both are/were excellent teams, NIU was a ridiculous 2nd rd matchup for the "#1 overall." No doubt KU was capable of a title run in '10 but lost early instead after having a great regular season, conference, conference tourney. Maybe this team will have a little less luck during the season and a little more in the tourney.

FLJHK 9 years, 4 months ago

This is a low point. The last time I remember being this distressed at the performance of a KU team at this point in the season was 1988, Danny Manning’s senior year. Of course, things turned out rather well that year. I’m in no way suggesting that the end result of this season has much likelihood of ending the way ’88 did. While by no means a fluke, no one could have reasonably predicted the ultimate outcome that year. But certainly this is a season without any dominant teams, and the NCAA tourney is likely to be a crapshoot. But the experience of a mid-season slump is relatively new territory for many Jayhawk fans. Fact is, we have been incredibly spoiled for 25 years. Through these years, only Duke has rivaled our level of regular season excellence, and many undervalue the significance of our regular season accomplishments. In many recent years the Big “12” was a decent hoops conference, and our dominance was not expected. This year, a conference championship was virtually assumed. Funny how that works out. My main point here is that we don’t know how this all works out. It is actually quite normal for teams to go into slumps. It has happened in virtually all other elite hoops programs. We don’t know how this one turns out. The same players and coach that got us to 19-1 also got us to 19-4. I’ve lost faith in neither.

Max Ledom 9 years, 4 months ago

I don't know what to say really. 2 days to the biggest battle of our professional lives all comes down to today. Either we heal as a team, or we are going to crumble. Inch by inch play by play till we're finished. We are in hell right now, gentlemen. Believe me. And we can stay here and get the s*** kicked out of us or we can fight our way back into the light. We can climb out of hell. One inch, at a time.

Now I can't do it for you. I'm too old.

You know when you get old in life things get taken from you. That's, that's part of life. But, you only learn that when you start losing stuff. You find out that life is just a game of inches. So is basketball. Because in either game life or basketball, the margin for error is so small. I mean one half step too late or to early you don't quite make it. One half second too slow or too fast and you don't quite catch it. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They are in every break of the game, every minute, every second.

On this team, we fight for that inch. On this team, we tear ourselves, and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We CLAW with our finger nails for that inch. Cause we know when we add up all those inches, that's going to make the ****ing difference between WINNING and LOSING. Between LIVING and DYING.

I'll tell you this in any fight, it is the guy who is willing to die who is going to win that inch. And I know if I am going to have any life anymore, it is because, I am still willing to fight, and die for that inch. Because that is what LIVING is. The six inches in front of your face!

Now I can't make you do it. You gotta look at the guy next to you. Look into his eyes. Now I think you are going to see a guy who will go that inch with you. You are going to see a guy who will sacrifice himself for this team because he knows when it comes down to it, you are gonna do the same thing for him.

That's a team, gentlemen, and either we heal now, as a team, or we will die as individuals. That's basketball guys. That's all it is.

Now, whattaya gonna do?

jaybate 9 years, 4 months ago

"Its Time to Believe in the Inexplicable"

Part 1

For a stretch in December, this team played some of the best basketball I had seen.

During January, it labored along winning, but getting increasingly ugly doing it.

This last week the team has lost three games and two of the games--OSU and TCU--were among the worst basketball I have ever seen played.

Watching the team today was like watching the team give better effort, but still not play with any of the energy and athleticism during its stretch of superb play.

I am usually a pretty optimistic and stick to the plan kind of board rat that does not lose faith in a good team with a 19-4 record, but I have to admit that the TCU game and the OU game had me pulling my hair out in clumps.

There is something VERY strange about this team. It is an odd mixture of seniors and freshman for one thing. It is an odd mix of stunning athleticism and skinny weakness. It has guys with XTReme talent in one dimension, and little talent in other dimensions. It is a mixture of extremely hard working guys and guys who don't seem to have any mean streaks.

It is a team that really fulfills Self's POV that players and teams play one third good games, one third so-so games, and one third bad games. In fact, it carries the idea to XTremes. The good games are extraordinary. The so-so games are intensely medicre if such a thing were possible. And the bad games are just plain horrendous. I have never seen the range between a team's best performance and worst performance be so wide.

Strangely, however, this team is not volatile, or mercurial, in performance. It is very steady and incremental in its progressions up and down the undulating curve of its performances. It built steadily upwards for the longest time. It built steadily downward for the longest time. One has the feeling that if the season were long enough, it would build steadily to another peak. And if the season were too long, it would build steadily to another Grand Canyon deep trough.

I know many now doubt that this team can ever fully recover. Up until a few moments ago I would have been counted among those persons.

There is something inexplicably bad about this team's recent performance, just as surely as there was something inexplicably good about its early peak.

This is the least explicable team in Self's KU tenure. It is so inexplicable that Self apparently finds it inexplicable too.

jaybate 9 years, 4 months ago

Part 2

Bill Self says he doesn't like to beg for the fans to support the team and won't beg, but he also says the team needs the fans. And Bill Self says this in a way that indicates it is inexplicable to him why the team needs the fans. To Bill Self, basketball is hard work. Fan support is part of the business of basketball. Fan support amps up the arena and fills the seats and fills the message boards with clicks and makes KU basketball the most talked about thing in KU nation from October to March. Fan support even helps a team with home court advantage a little. But Bill Self figures with a normal team you go out on the court, go to work, leave it all on the floor and the better team wins. Except not with this team. Inexplicably, this team really does need fan support and really has been stung, not only by beat downs by opposing teams, but by fan fury and disillusionment with the inexplicable recent play of this most inexplicable of teams.

What Bill Self basically said in the OU post game interview was that for reasons entirely beyond his understanding he has somehow become the head coach of a team that needs the energy of its fans and that it is hurting almost as much from the beat down by fans as by opponents. What an inexplicable thing for a coach to hint at. But there it is. He wouldn't beg fans to support the team big time against the KSU on Monday night, but if he were a begging man, he inexplicably would.

So let me tell you what this inexplicable appeal by the head coach of this inexplicable team made me inexplicably do.

I paused in the midst of my fuming about one of the most athletic teams at KU in ages ceasing to show even faint signs of athleticism and energy the last three games. I paused and I asked myself how much did KU lose by in each game of this three game stretch of frankly the most horrible basketball I have witnessed? And here was my answer.

They lost to OSU by 5.

They lost to TCU by 7.

They lost to OU by 6.

They lost three games by an average of 6 points each.

How can a team play three of the worst games I have ever seen and lose by only an average of 6 points each?

My first instinct was to shout, "Its inexplicable!!!"

But then I realized the obvious. It leaped out at me in a way that made me think it was inexplicable that I had not seen it sooner.

Only a very exceptional team in the deepest, most inexplicable funk ever could play the worst basketball I have ever seen and lose by only 6 points per game.

KansasComet 9 years, 4 months ago

Excellent post. I still believe in this team. If they don't win this year, so what? I will be right back here next year commenting, sometimes complaining, but mostly enjoying Kansas Jayhawk Basketball!

mattiesdad 9 years, 4 months ago

I think there is one flaw in this theory: If this team needs the energy of the fans to play well, that will not be there in late March tournament atmospheres. They will get the negative energy of the fans from other teams rooting against us. The TCU game is the perfect example of what a 2nd round loss game would look and feel like. I don't see this teaming having the leadership to fight through tourny adversity.

One small side note: It was Jonah who bounced back from the belly of the whale. Job had the good fortune of having the XTreme encouraging wife who told him to curse God and die when things went south.

Jonathan Allison 9 years, 4 months ago

the energy of the fans isn't just the energy of the crowd of spectators. I think that the greatest fan support for the team's psyche is the support from the thousands upon thousands of fans who faithfully track KU from across the country and who live and breathe all things KU Basketball.

It's the writers, the readers, the TV watchers, the commenters just as much as the spectators.

The team can tell when the fan base is amped and the team can tell when the fan base is angry, and the team needs the fan base to be behind them in the bad just as much as in the good. On the road, just as much as at home. Against TCU just as much as against KSU, and in March just as much as in October.

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

That would be Jonah in the belly of the Great Fish... Job lost almost his entire family, possessions, etc. Elijah is not there...yet, although some of the posts from fair weather fans might indicate the contrary.

dehawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Thanks for your comments. On a different post I mentioned that we should be trying to encourage our players and got knock down for being too soft on the players. I also commented on recruits being scared away by our posts and that even the players not wanting to be in the dog house like EJ because of the comment boards. I am really glad to see someone, who often has some of the best posts on the board, say what you did. Although this had been my feeling, I had not thought quite so in depth about the up side of needing us to be supportive, only the effects of the downside. Thank you again for your comments. I am not there to support the hawks in person, but I will try to stay supportive for the players and coaches from a distance. Rock Chalk Jayhawks! We are with you guys.

dehawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Don't know what happened to my other post in response, so I will try again.... but shorter. I have felt the players need our support too. And I do believe that they read these boards and unfortunately see that many aren't the loyal fans they have claimed. But I agree with you and I support the team through good and bad. Rock Chalk Jayhawks!

jaybate 9 years, 4 months ago

My writing Job, when I meant Jonah is INEXPLICABLE!!!! :-)

Thx to all for the assist.

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

Part of being brought up by a "ministry/missions" family :-)

mimisluv 9 years, 4 months ago

Awesome post! Right on! Rock Chalk Team! Rock Chalk Elijah! You Rock! Believe, Elijah, great things are to come your way! This team is about to explode with the perfect example of what true winners are made of! Elijah, Ben, Jeff, Travis,Kevin,Naaddir,Jamari,Perry,Tyler,Evan,Andrew,Zach,Landon,Christian,Niko,Justin,Andrew,Rio,you are all examples of excellence!! This is just the beginning of unbelievable comeback!!! Go KU!!! Go Team!!! We Luv You!!!!

jcourt 9 years, 4 months ago

Why is it every other School can recruit a guard who can beat his man off the dribble. Every one is playing deny defense on top but out guards cant dribble past anyone and even if they did they would throw it away or mis a layup. For Coach Self to rely on Johnson to run this team is a bad sign but not as bad as not giving Tharpe any playing time last year. Name one other guy on this team that can dribble away from trouble. Its killing Releford, Perry and even Mac.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

What?! I was there! Elijah did 3 or 4 x, but laid it up consistently too hard EVERY time.

mattiesdad 9 years, 4 months ago

Interestingly, Perry actually seems to be the quickest off the bounce of all these suspects, he can just never finish at the rim because he always moves away from the contact or the rim. He at least can get his man on his side. I keep yelling at Bmac to DO SOMETHING when dribbling, but he just dribbles side to side a lot.

Gerry Butler 9 years, 4 months ago

B mac is seems to be feeling the effect of the entire team, looks like his confidence is shaken too. shot isn't there like it was seems to be passin up his shot at critacl times not sure if its the freshman in him or not. these guys are at a point where they are thinking to much instead of just going out and playing ball do what comes natural instead of trying to over think the game do what comes natural to them just play. we were always told by our coach was the difference between a good shooter and a great shooter was a good shooter shoots and he misses a couple of times then its over he has no confidence for that game total case for the game, where a great shoter has the take charge give me the ball attitude, he fully believes every shot he takes is going in if he misses SO no hesitancy shoot again he keeps shooting and keeps playin don't worry about a mistake just play

tysspe 9 years, 4 months ago

Ej is sooo bad!!! Between him and Tharpe I'm not sure who shoots us out of the game faster! Both just tryin to get there shots! Smh

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

Naadir took 5 shots against OU and was the only one not afraid to pull the trigger against TCU.

MOLadyKUFan 9 years, 4 months ago

At least they shot the ball! Others on the team dont shoot. You cant score if you dont shoot!

dehawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Did you not watch the game. They were passing the ball around like a hot potato that no one wanted. Give them credit for at least trying to shoot the ball.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

Other things not known if you weren't there...Wesley "went off" on EJ. w/ maybe 8 mins. left in the gm. Worst call / no-call of the game was a no-call on I. Cousins bumping Elijah on one of our best break opportunities. I think every KU fan, player & coach jumped up screaming about that one...I want to say came when we trailed by just 1.

Alan Mills 9 years, 4 months ago

I hope you're right, Jaybate. Not sure how Perry Ellis fits into any of this, but I know you are a big fan. I was, but lately I'm not so sure I can continue. He simply doesn't show up for games. Real players show up for games. All we hear is how great he is, but haven't really seen any sign of that yet. In fact, jus the opposite. And, not sure how much longer you stick with Johnson in clutch situations. A slump lasts only so long. He's a senior, has never been able to shoot the ball, and cannot move on those bum knees. When Sheron was a senior, late in the year, he was simply too fat and slow to make plays, but we always went to him. He shot too much, and shot us out of the tournament early. At least with Johnson it's honestly an issue of having two bad knees, so out of his control. But, you cannot keep going to a dead horse. He just can't make plans when it counts. So, let's accept that and find the replacement now. If we have to go to Johnson in the close games, whether we play well or not, we will continue to lose them. To me, that's the inexplicable thing...why do we continue to call his number when it counts. If you are never able to make the play, at some point I stop calling on you to make the play. Seems like McLemore would be the obvious choice, but that's just me. I don't see anyone else you turn to.

Suzi Marshall 9 years, 4 months ago

For us to have any chance to rescue the year, I hope Self gives AWIII a chance at the 4 instead of Ellis and sits EJ down. Ellis is nowhere near D1 ready. His lack of readiness makes me quesion how good Wichita HS bball is. As a result, I'm not real optimistic about Frankamp.. EJ is hopeless as a 1 and has made significant contributions toward our 3 game skid.

Phoggy_Notion 9 years, 4 months ago

Even though I like AW3, the last thing this team needs is another perimeter jump shooter. For you to suggest that we abandon Ellis' play is indicative of your lack of basketball knowledge. KU needs a post presence to run the high-low offense that has been the team's bread and butter the previous 8 seasons. Obviously Ellis' production has not been fantastic, but consider he IS freshman and still learning the pace of the game. Its not at all uncharacteristic for freshman bigs to struggle like this, you just have to patient and let them find their game. The payoff for a productive Ellis is greater than what any other player could give KU at this point.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 4 months ago

Really? Think about that a bit. AW3 dropped 15 vs. Belmont. When did Ellis do that? White has played the 4 in the high low this season and was very effective. We need another offensive weapon. And while, yes, we need Ellis to develop, he looks completely lost out there most of the time.

Suzi Marshall 9 years, 4 months ago

As a former player, I questio why you would question my basketball knowledge? AWIII shooting ability could open it up for Withey. Defenses do not give Young or Ellis any respect with regards to shooting the ball. White is a good rebounder. Ellis may be a good player by his Junior year but my opinion extends to this year. Ellis is in way over his head this year.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

Right now, with his")passiveness l", I would say that White III deserves to steal at least a few of Releford's mins.

Jeffery Barrett 9 years, 4 months ago

Come on. You obviously don't follow Connor Frankamp. The kid is tough. He is the only thing this KU team is missing. I predict he is going to stay 2 or 3 years and set the 3 point FGs made record.

Suzi Marshall 9 years, 4 months ago

No I do not follow Frankamp. I question the strenght of Wichita HS bball. Any kid Kansas recruits is a major HS scorer. All the guards have good strokes. Frankamp is only 6' I seriouly doubt he will be able to guard the big (6'4" - 6'6")elite guards. Marcus Smart and EJ are the type of guards that seems best fit Self's idea for Kansas. Don't get me wrong, Frankamp is a Kansas boy so I'm elated he will get a shot.

dehawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Posters here complain about CS not giving freshmen the time to work through their mistakes. So let Perry work through his. He has to learn and feel comfortable. We can't have it both ways, wanting young players to have their time and sitting them because they don't perform the way we want to. I would like to see AW3 get some extra minute only because we may need him in March. But give Perry the time you would want all the young players to have.

Robert Howard 9 years, 4 months ago

What happened to our points off turnovers and fast break points? Watching the 2nd half it was obvious that we were stuck playing half court basketball.

JayDocMD 9 years, 4 months ago

Unsuccessfully fighting the urge to go ahead and start looking towards next year. I haven't given up on this year by any means, but thinking about next year did make me realize that team could very well be the polar opposite of this team.

Experience vs Youth:

  • 4 senior starters this year (2 are 5th years.)

  • The lone senior next year: Niko Roberts.

Defense vs Offense:

  • A defensive-minded team with only one natural scorer in the rotation this year.

  • A team next year that might struggle to defend, but perhaps has more natural scorers (I hope?)

Ethan Berger 9 years, 4 months ago

Here are my notes of the game

Our offensive flow isn't all that bad. Sometimes guys get caught up in to much traffic, but we had a lot of open shots. We just couldn't hit them. If EJ could hit half his open shots, he would be average 13ppg. But he is shooting with to much power, no touch. Watch, his threes his the back iron and his layups are bouncing right out. He was burning guys today, but just couldn't finish.

B Mac needs another college year, but because he will be a top 5 pick he needs to go. In a perfect world he could learn how to dribble with pressure and be the top guy in next years draft. But as we know, the world isn't perfect. However, if he would drive more and control the ball better, this game is won. He has used the pump fake very well the last couple of games, now he just needs to drive or pull up for a mid range.

T Rel still is being way to shy. He needs to be a slasher then shooter. Right now he is a shooter then slasher. He has good control even though he won't burn you, and has a nice touch on lay ups and mid range shots.

Last note guys need to practice free throws. I don't blame Bill for not practicing it because it is something any of those guys can work on. If T Rel can improve his shot this much since at KU, then our guys can improve their FTs.

VaJay 9 years, 4 months ago

Add to that on the defensive side BLOCKING OUT !!

We have given up an inexplicable number of offensive rebounds simply because of a lack of fundamentals once the initial shot goes off.

Withey, EJ, Travis, & KY have all recently had these lapses & it's basically cost us those three losses.

JS82 9 years, 4 months ago

We are at a time where Self needs to look at his coaching and build an offense that this team can run. I would favor someone who can dribble and pass at the point even if they can't score. EJ's passing and dribbling are terrible. How many times has he dribbled off his leg or foot in each game. I just don't think EJ has the capability to be the point and score at the same time. He is better as as #2 and as long as he is forced to do more than he is capable the offense is going to be sluggish. We will win enough games to get into the tournament but if nothing changes it will be an early out.

Phoggy_Notion 9 years, 4 months ago

Honestly, I feel much better about this loss because it was largely due to missed free throws, rather than a result of passive perimeter play. Aggresive play doesn't always result in wins, but it is a great way to remain competitive if one's offense is in a rut. At this point in the season its not required that KU has to play great, but KU does need to show that they can get up off the mat and still compete. Whether our performance is good or bad on monday, the most important thing is that KU finds a way to win. Re-establish your home court routine against what will likely be a top 10 ranked opponent, and then settle in for what will be a very exciting finish to the league regular season. RCJ!

tis4tim 9 years, 4 months ago

I'll leave this to the more astute statisticians among us but when was the last time we lost 4 straight games or two games at Allen Fieldhouse in a single season or, worse yet, two games IN A ROW at Allen? This team is on the verge of some very dubious history come Monday. I sincerely hope we snap out of this funk by then. No better time and no better team to do it against. Lets go, boys! Rock chalk!

YuCoJayHawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Wow, just wow. I'm getting Deja Vu of the Langford, Simien, Miles team. Weren't they ranked no. 1 at the midpoint of that season, and then had the carpet yanked out from underneath them? Weren't Langford, Simien and Miles all seniors providing great leadership, which turned into the Bucknell fiasco? Did anyone notice today in the first half KU playing defense and all 5 Jayhawks on the floor had their hands at their waists. Not one player acted as if defense were a priority today. And this was early in the game .... KU looked drained...physically and mentally. I saw many KU players bending at the waist in the first 8 minutes of the game, seemingly trying to get some air. Saw many silly dribbling turnovers, many silly bad pass turnovers. And doesn't it seem that EJ has missed at least 3 to 4 layups per game in the last 3? Nevertheless, you cannot count this KU team out. There is just too much talent to do that. I think that our expectations have been tempered a bit, but if this team gets hot, it can easily win 5 or 6 in a row in March/April. RCJHGOKU

dehawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Make you wonder whether they are being over-practiced before big games.

Joseph Kuebel 9 years, 4 months ago

I think we can all agree that they have been bending over (and taking a pounding) quite a bit lately.

nostradavid 9 years, 4 months ago

I think the last time we lost 4 in a row was '88. We were still ranked 11th in the final poll after the regular season. Played Oklahoma for the championship at Kemper Arena, after losing twice to them during the season, and it turned out alright. The halftime score was 50 - 50 (in honor of the 50th anniversary of the Final Four).

When we are trying to come back late in the game, I really wish we had a pickpocket with fast hands like Mookie Blaylock. The only guy to get 13 steals in a college game - and he did it twice. He was amazing. One of the reasons we had such a hard time with Oklahoma back then.

Watching Perry try to shoot, he's really getting pushed around inside. When he starts elevating before releasing the ball, that should take care of itself.

I posted Conner Frankamp's free throw practice routine the other day. He hit 21 of 22 in his last game. Fans in Lawrence should volunteer to shag balls for our guys until they get their touch back.

The rough patch may be inexplicable, but it ain't inextricable. We will survive.

Fight to WIN!

Fight to WIN! by nostradavid

klineisanazi 9 years, 4 months ago

In '89 KU lost 8 in a row. (Like Trojan said!) I think everyone expected the worst that year with an unknown coach, probation,etc. So I think the '88 year is probably similar in the expectations department. And they did seem to go into a funk, with Brown challenging Manning to be what he and everybody else knew he could be.

KULA 9 years, 4 months ago

Bill's offense is lame. Until he can come up with some sets that can create something GOING TOWARDS the basket, we'll continue to struggle. We've scored over 70 points in TWO conference games (and one of those was in overtime). This side to side ball movement is easily defended and now everyone's lost their confidence in the three, which is the only shot the side to side movement produces. His post-man pick up top for the ball handler was figured out about halfway thru Sherron's junior season and hasn't produced a basket since.

i remember complaining about the deficiencies of this offense back in 04-05 and again in 08-09 when I joined this board--"How does this offense GET A BUCKET when it needs one?" The weaknesses of this offense were often disguised by BALLER players who could GET THEIRS, and I'll give Bill credit for recruiting them, but this year's squad manifests the deficiencies in this offense. There is simply nothing created going TOWARDS the basket. And no matter how good the defense is, and it's been decent, you still have to score more points than the other guys. Only two games so far in conference scoring more than 70. That's on your offense, Bill.

KansasComet 9 years, 4 months ago

This is not a criticism, I repeat, this is not a criticism, only a question? What has happened to Travis Releford since the "Strike a Pose" dunk that he had, when things were going well?

GreatJake 9 years, 4 months ago

I wonder the same but that was a fast break (I think) and how many of those have occurred the past few games.

AsadZ 9 years, 4 months ago

Tharpe should be starting PG.

EJ has lost his confidence and the idea of being team leader is taking further toll on him.

Coming off the bench may help him relax and play with free mind.

Tharpe seems to be vocal and is playing with energy and hustle.

Furthermore, this experience will benefit him for next year.

hotrodm 9 years, 4 months ago

A Bruce Weber coached team of Wildcats are coming Monday night. Send them home hairless and tails tucked between their legs. Win this one for coach Self. This is KU's new rival, bring your A game.

klineisanazi 9 years, 4 months ago

Absolutely critical. After TCU, I was hoping to win the next two, but thought if they split, home against KSU was vital. Re-establishing home court, vs. in-state psuedo-rivals, KSU win gives them leg-up to win the conference, Big Monday etc. There are probably other reasons, but these come to mind.

justinryman 9 years, 4 months ago

I think Kevin Young saved us on offense a few times, this game could have been worse, but he hustled and got O rebounds and easy put backs.

His D at times was pretty good too. If he could hit a shot 10 to 22ft away he would be deadly. I do not fault him for taking that 3 in the 1st half, nobody else was taking a shot, just passing it and passing it again.

It is like Travis and EJ are afraid to miss the game winning shot, which is amazing because last year late EJ was the guy who would do that. YOu can't be afraid to miss, you can't be afraid to take the shot.

There were so many times in the last 4 mins of the game that KU made too many passes, instead of looking at the shot. They are to worried about not getting their teammates involved that it hurts the offense. It's like a guy gets a pass and is like why did he throw it to me? I better throw it back.

MOLadyKUFan 9 years, 4 months ago

Kevin Young's "goofiness" scares me but I like him. He seems to be the only one playing with heart. In my opinion, he has been the best player the last three games.

justinryman 9 years, 4 months ago

And another RANT:

I have always like Fran Fraschilla, until yesterday. He showed his OU colors, even had a buddy text me that is not a KU fan saying it.

And ESPN is just as bad showing his son on the bench as they were with Craig James' son at Texas Tech. That kid yesterday got more air time than either coach. Every time out they showed him center screen. Every time they showed the OU bench, there he was. I was surprised Holly Rowe didn't interview him during the game.

ESPN needs to stop having parents call their kids games and then not let these kids get so much air time. It's bad enough they gave the kid a summer job.

klineisanazi 9 years, 4 months ago

They did go overboard, as they often do, but ESPN is good to KU hoops, as is Fran. Only reason we noticed is because KU lost. The James Affair is another matter. Letting him go on air and rant against Leach was one of the worst things I have seen out of an outfit with some pretense of journalistic credibility. Something you would expect out of BTL on 810 , but not ESPN. But there it was.

Shawn Otrimble 9 years, 4 months ago

Having played at the college level and coached at the high school level, I have noticed a few problems this year that have now caught up with us. 1. We were so successful early with our man to man, that we have not used other defenses to mix it up well. We have the best big in the big 12 and one of the best garbage men in the league, so why not run a zone to keep them home and eliminate the 3 point threat (which since the Iowa St game every team is using) let teams beat us with the 12 footers not easy under the baskets because teams are luring Jeff out of the post with our man to man.

  1. If you look at the last 6 games you will notice that we are taking shots when we are out of place to rebound well. They are not bad shots but we have being using the high- low and spacing to spread a defense. The only problem is that Jeff is no where near the basket when a shot is attempted. When we are spread there is no forward or big in a position to crash the boards, which in turn leads to a one and done offense and if the shots aren't falling it becomes stagnate.

  2. The high low is being double teamed and giving us a open three is we pass well. The only problem is we are settling for the three and losing our focus on driving. We should swing it back to the weak side and allow Travis or been to drive it to the hole and not settle for the outside shot. We have too much talent to not take it to lane on at least 2 out of 3 possessions.

  3. Ben and Travis need more shot attempts. Ben needs to start playing more selfish and put up at least 15-20 shots a game. He is the best pure shooter in the league and passes way too much. Would also like to see what White could do if had more playing time, it wouldn't hurt.

  4. I love Young's play, but he has no business with the ball at the top of the key. The defender sinks back and clogs up the middle. He just needs to be in a position to to do what he does best. If we run high low at least put him attacking from the wing and let Ben or Travis run the high keeping Jeff down low.

I could be wrong on all these ideas, but I believe we have a really good team this year but not great. We can't just rely on what has worked year in and year out. Our point guard play has been down and we have to stop having them shoot us into close games.

justinryman 9 years, 4 months ago

Kevin Young could be deadly if he could hit that 17ft shot. At least he looked at it yesterday.

Perry drove a few times when he was up there open, but never looked to shoot.

Heck even Thomas Robinson took a few 3's last year and the twins had that range to do it.

Maybe put AW3 at the 4 for a few series and see what happens then when they leave him open top of the key.

I do like your analysis, I have often thought the same.

kcmojayhawker 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree with one thing, we need to drive it more especially Ben. The 4 and thePG are not what they have been in past years so that explains a lot for our offensive woes. We will Be as good as those two positions at the end of the day.

studio 9 years, 4 months ago

Perry, I thought You had some of your best minutes yet coming in for the foul burdened Kevin. You are coming along but it's time to arrive. Y'all need to see the ball into the hoop kids. Seems you're so surprised the mechanics you've repeated a thousand times get you an open look, that you're rushing the delivery and not "seeing" the ball through the hoop, "seeing" the pass around the defender's inertia, "seeing" the open lanes and weak-side advantage. Let's do this. Now is the time for celebrity boys to become legendary men. RCJH - Go KU!

jayhawkinATL 9 years, 4 months ago

Terrible D all the way around...until we went with that Triangle & 2. Watching Withey trying to run around screens was flat-out comical. They didn't "just make shots"...they made shots because no one was in their jerseys! Watching wide-open jump shot after wide-open jump shot was frustrating as hell!

Gerry Butler 9 years, 4 months ago

agree 100& jayhawkin as i stated in earlier post, glad to see i was not the only one who saw this. i mean REALLY? that is not typical ku defensive pressure, guys not even close to the shooter, especially in the first half just kinda waving half hearted at the shooters belly like that surpose to intimitate the shoot needs fixed and soon

PhearThePhog 9 years, 4 months ago

Get Wayne, Keith and/or Aaron in that locker room to talk to these guys. They've been here before as players and had to play there way out.

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

This is an excerpt from an article in today's Salina Journal:

"We're going to fight through it. We're going to be all right," senior Elijah Johnson said. "We're learning right now. It's cool. I'm all right with that. I think Coach is, too."

That pretty much tells me all I need to know. If EJ is "all right" with what's going on right now, we may as well look ahead to football season. When I competed in sports (or cards, or golf, or anything else) I wanted to WIN. I wasn't cool with losing, I wasn't cool with playing terrible.

I must have problems.

Jeffery Barrett 9 years, 4 months ago

It's not often I agree with you, nuleaf, but I do today.

kennethst 9 years, 4 months ago

I don't think that is what he meant.....He's trying to be positive and calm about it. I'm sure he is not "fine" with the losses. They played much better yesterday.....much more like themselves. I think yesterday's game could be the true moment they broke out of their slump.....even if they win tomorrow.

kennethst 9 years, 4 months ago

My precious little 3 year old girl has been hugging and consoling her stuffed Jayhawk the last few days. I asked her about it and she said "Jayhawk sad, Daddy".

She's right, of course. On both .......that they are sad and we need to support them.

Children have a way of cutting through everything and putting it in perspective.

kennethst 9 years, 4 months ago

Well......At this point the only one she knows is the stuffed Babyjayhawk.....But she's learning. ... and knows the team has been losing. I would say that neither is a great may as well stick with EJ. I really do think he is going to bust out.

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

I was thinking maybe we could try stuffed Babyjayhawk at the point guard.......

kennethst 9 years, 4 months ago

That would make my little girl happy! She doesn't know too much about it yet.....but at least the basic that Jayhawks "good"......Tigers and Cats....."bad".

Craig Colgin 9 years, 4 months ago

Already has the essentials down then! Smart girl! :)

kennethst 9 years, 4 months ago

Disliking MU is clearly a sign of early intelligence!!

Jonathan Even 9 years, 4 months ago

I too am frustrated watching players crouched over with their hands on their knees in the opening minutes of a game. Maybe it's just me, but I was always taught that if you're winded, you stand up straight with your hands on your head. This opens up your lungs and diaphragm, allowing you to breathe easier. Bent over with your hands on your knees is not an efficient way to breathe.

Besides the fact that it's an obvious sign of physical and mental weakness. This is what we're showing our competition, that we are weak and tired? On the contrary, standing straight is a sign of power and fortitude. If I was Bill, the first thing I would focus on in practice is that. Stand up straight, gentlemen! You're tired?!? Get on the line for some sprints!

Love my Jayhawks though! I believe in you guys! We'll pull through this!

machinegun 9 years, 4 months ago

Like a bunch of sharks at a feeding everybody thinks they can beat us. Well, our backs are against the wall. Time to turn it around with a win.

MOLadyKUFan 9 years, 4 months ago

My husband asked me if I was really going to watch the game yesterday after the back to back losses. I told him I sure was! I love Jayhawk Basketball. I hope they come out of this funk and start playing the way they know how.

Ben McLemore is the best college player I have ever seen. I only say that because I didnt watch college ball when Jordan played! Ben needs to get some confidence and take over and score! Withey needs to play some D. Kevin needs to keep on keeping on. EJ needs to take care of the ball. Releford needs to join the team as well! I would like to see Tharpe and Ellis on the court a little more if these other guys cant take care of business.

I will continue to support the Jayhawks and wear my blue proudly!

BainDread 9 years, 4 months ago

My wife asked the same question and got the same response. That said, I assume you are too young to have seen Danny Manning play college b-ball. Ben is good, but as one of the announcers pointed out Saturday, he needs to get better using his left hand. Shooting with his right hand while driving left makes it too easy for the defender to block or alter his shot - as we saw yesterday.

MOLadyKUFan 9 years, 4 months ago

I didnt watch a lot of college ball until the last 10 yrs or so. I used to watch Missouri when Sundvold and Stipanovich played and Norm coached. I quit watching them when Norm was gone.

I have been watching Kansas for quite a few years now and faithfully since Bill has been the coach.

wildjayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Looks like it's all down hill from here. This team has quit and Self has lost this team. You could see this coming from the start of the year. MSU, Temple, Iowa ST., Kansas ST, and others, yea, they win some of them but, not by very much. This goes back to recruiting;. Tharpe, poor player from the start; Withey, good now, not great in his 4th year, but poor player from the start;, Johnson, good player but, not getting playing time in earlier year; Releford, taking to long to develop. Just poor recruiting of not very good players to start with. This goes back to poor recruiting by Self. This goes back to years before when Morningstar and Reed was recruited and the experts were saying that Kansas was not recruiting good players. Everyone was saying that a disaster was in the making.

This is going to hurt future recruitng and possibly in-coming now recruits. Kansas ST. is looking great now but, we will see how Weber recruits will work out.

kennethst 9 years, 4 months ago

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Gerry Butler 9 years, 4 months ago

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kennethst 9 years, 4 months ago

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BrianandKati Robertson 9 years, 4 months ago

Kansas will regroup and win the conference. They have hit rock bottom and as we all know you can't experience success without experiencing failure first. This team hasn't face much adversity or failure. They are use to pulling it out at the end because they are Kansas and they are suppose to win. NOW they realize that they are not invicible and they must play hard every possession. They now know there is less margin for error and they won't take anything for granted. Call me crazy but starting Monday we are going on an unbelievable streak because I believe we have the high character guys to do it, who understand the responsiblity ot being a Kansas basketball player. Rock Chalk Baby our new season starts Monday against the pussy cats and we will win out!! Remember where you heard it Wildjayhawk!!

kennethst 9 years, 4 months ago

HA! Excellent!! Good old Jaybate.......when the chips are down we can always turn to him for guidance and leadership. He is the stone wall that stands in the way of the naysayers of doom and gloom.

Phoggy_Notion 9 years, 4 months ago

laughable. So you think that because KU has won 19 games that the team has quit? I think it would be more appropriate to accuse you for quitting as a fan. Clueless post.

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

He's a KSU troll, that's all that needs to be said about him.

Jonathan Allison 9 years, 4 months ago

Self does have 30+ win seasons in 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2012. The win totals over that 6 years stretch equate to about 33 wins a season including the 27 win season in 2009.

If we win out through the Big 12 tourney (a big IF, I know), we'll reach 30 wins for the 6th time in 7 years, if not, we'll still get a chance to get 30 when we play in our 24th consecutive NCAA tourney.

This team won 18 games in a row and is being held to the highest of standards. They've lost their swagger and they may or may not get it back, but they are NOT an embarassment to KU Basketball, just another wrinkle in the history of the most storied program of all time.

monkeehawkSL8 9 years, 4 months ago

At one point in the second half, sorry I don't know the exact time. OU put up a shot, one that didn't go in. I did a double take, could not believe what I saw. Jeff stood, flat footed, arms hanging down at his side. He looked like he was watching a squirrel in a tree. An OU player grabbed the ball, instant put back. Jeff didn't box out, he had no agression. No fire, no "this rebound is mine and nothing on earth is going to take it from me". This team, at this point in the season just doesn't want it. When you want it you take it.

I'm not hanging this on any one player. Each member of the team has some part of their game that shows an unwillingness to do whatever it takes. The good news is that there is plenty of time to change. Letting OU players relax, square up and shoot nothing but net 3's without putting a hand in their face. I also think teams now realize that if we just crowd Withey he'll travel, trip or just loose the ball. They know Travis will pass. They know to force Ben to his left, That 75% of the time EJ will miss his shot. Sadly they know on most outside shot's we take there won't be a Jayhawk anywhere near the basket for a rebound. Back to Jeff, I believe Jeff's thinking on the rebound I mentioned in the beginning was "where did you come from, we don't defend the glass on our outside shots, your not suppose to be here".

With all this said, I agree with jaybate, the losses are not blow outs. The recent event's are all things that can be fixed. I hope we're laughing about this in april. RCJH KAAAAAUOOOOOO! thanks, monk

GreatJake 9 years, 4 months ago

I have had the same thoughts about JW, I think at times he stands there like he is waiting to board a plane with nothing else to do but stand. Also is JW supposed to guard his man on the perimeter or just stand under the basket? I have seen several plays where his man is out shooting an uncontested 2 or 3 and there is JW under the basket waiting to board a plane/bus for the trip home.

HawkKlaw 9 years, 4 months ago

This wasn't too bad of a loss. OU hit a really high percentage of their field goals and KU didn't convert on its free throw attempts. OU controlled this game from the get-go. Time to move along to Monday.

kennethst 9 years, 4 months ago

Get over it. He's a great coach and I don't care about his comments. Deal with it.

Steve Reigle 9 years, 4 months ago

Yes, OU was hitting shots, but the way I read the box score KU had the better FG percentage. FT, on the other hand...

DaNeille Dani Davis 9 years, 4 months ago

DEFENSE, DEFEnse, defence.....oh where the hell has our defense gone? The stats reveal that our defense has not been there. How many wide open shots have these teams been getting on us? The thing that is driving me crazy is instead of getting their hands up to defend a shot, they are immediately turning around to see if it's going in! Play some defense!

Andy Godwin 9 years, 4 months ago

Funny how all the supposed experts had conceded the Big XII title to KU before the season had played out. Like it or not this team will have its string of regular season championships broken. There is now way they win the conference with a 12-6 record at best (expect losses at BU, ISU, and OSU). I don't see KSU losing 4 more games. The TCU game will come back to haunt them. At this point I would not even count on them finishing an outright second in the league. Reality has set in and either this team had overachieved going 19-1 and being one win from moving to #1 in both polls or is showing its true colors. I favor the latter. Clearly there are too many holes exposed once the conference season progressed and the opposing coaches are able to exploit their weaknesses. It was an amazing run but this team has not progressed enough to be considered champions.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 4 months ago

Does anyone have the website where I can order one of those neat Kansas State "We Led The Big 12 Basketball Conference For 48 Hours" T-Shirts??

Posted with Total Malice!!

Jack Wilson 9 years, 4 months ago

I won't predict Monday's outcome. My prediction Saturday was not so good.

More and more, I think that a partial answer is AW3. Not a cure all. A partial answer.

As I watch Releford come out aggressive -- it was great to see; but then revert to his passive self; As I watch Ellis flounder; As I watch Withey fail to dominate down low; As I watch EJ struggle to shoot 25% .. there is some potential offense we're not tapping. Self has so much confidence in Traylor, he plays Wesley (ugh) over him. Wesley has no business on the court. None. Yet White sits.

Self played basically 6 guys real minutes yesterday. The broadcaster kept saying that Self usually plays a nine man rotation. Uh, no. Not when he thinks the outcome is close to in doubt. When that happens, he gets real conservative with personnel.

AW3 should start Monday at the 4. It would be an injection of life into this team. He's 6'6", KY 6'8". AW3 has proven that he can rebound. He's long. He is a much more diverse offensive threat. He can hit the three. He can drive. Remember Belmont? AW3 would be the perfect "high" in the "high-low." He was a terror in that game setting screens high, then kicking out for the shot.

Some would argue that our defense would suffer. Sure, maybe. Was our defense "good" on Saturday? No. I would argue that the plus/minus trade-off there is worth the risk of experimenting with it. We played small yesterday with Releford at the 4 for a long time, and did it vs. TCU.

It's the kind of move that takes guts.

BainDread 9 years, 4 months ago

I think White's performance and stat line in the TCU game explains his lack of playing time.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 4 months ago

Ok, so how would you use the OSU game to judge? 6 points in less than a minute. Right?

In reality, it's hard to judge when a guy can't get in the flow and comes in cold.

Your supposed "point" is a non-point.

BainDread 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree one game, either OSU or TCU, is a small sample size. You said he can hit the three, but his season 3-point FG average is only 28.6%. Yes, it might go up if he played more, but for reasons not expressed, Coach Self has not been willing to find out. He is averaging a rebound every four minutes of playing time, so I agree he seems solid there. Not sure he's long enough to be effective at the "high" in Self's high-low offense.

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 4 months ago

I think the biggest positive of playing AW3 at the 4 a little more is his ability to hit the Hi shot in the Hi-Lo, or to play a different style of offense and makes teams adjust defensively throughout the game. Maybe Self is saving a huge offensive wrinkle for the post-season, or the KSU, but when you consider he was willing to play small last year it's definitely a little surprising he's less willing to do it this year with more quality perimeter players and no TRob. I'll just add that posting anybody up other than Withey has been a disaster so far from what I can tell. Maybe if we could get BMac in there on a smaller guard or something along those lines it'd be worth throwing to someone else in the post, other than that it pains me whenever Withey is in the game and not the big down low. Maybe Ellis can still become a solid post threat this season, not giving up all hope.

phins13td 9 years, 4 months ago

Yes, and Tharpe should start ahead of EJ. The reliance on the seniors has to end.

Craig Colgin 9 years, 4 months ago

I like your approach here. I would add a couple wrinkles. First, Im not sure im totally on board with starting AW3. After the TCU game, im almost of the mind that the starting lineup is just set for the year. Go with the original 5, and hopefully they can come out and pop KSU in the mouth early. Then maybe around the under 16 send in Tharpe and AW3 for Rele and Young. Slide EJ to the two, Mac 3, AW3 4, and stick with it for atleast 4 minutes. Let White get his legs heated up a little, and then lets see if he hits his shots. My only concern is that White would be probably guarding Southwell, who hit for too many in my view in the octagon of dumb. But atleast we can find out early in the game if this works, and hopefully have time to recover if not. If nothing else we will atleast know if it's effective. Already on a losing streak. Nows the time to see what else might work. Even if it's just for short stints.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 4 months ago

I have no problem with your approach .. I've posted a number of times the need to get him involved, suggesting 10-12 minutes. This is first time I've suggested starting him. It just seems that this is the time to see if we can get some lightning in a bottle.

I actually think that vs. KSU it's a great time. They have no true 4 guy .. Southwell is 6'6". Southwell played well against us last time and AW3 never guarded him.

Phoggy_Notion 9 years, 4 months ago

when has AW3 proven that he can rebound? I will agree that I would like to see AW3 get a few more minutes, but until he routinely comes off the bench and gives some meaningful minutes, his role shouldn't change.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 4 months ago

White averages 25.2 rebounds per minute; KY 30.9; Ellis 26; and Traylor 24.

If you look at games where White has played double digit minutes, his rebounds per minute rise to 27. And he's been playing mainly the 3 vs. the 4, like KY, Ellis, and Traylor.

Compare to Releford who has 11.1 rebounds per minute.

What is the logic of saying that until he comes off the bench and gets soem meaningful minutes, "his role shouldn't change" .. isn't that (getting meaningful minutes) changing his role?

Phoggy_Notion 9 years, 4 months ago

Those statistics look nice, but considering that AW3 usually only gets playing time at the end of the games, I'm not convinced that his productivity is something that should be favored over KY's. Moreover, the logic behind my previous post's statement is that there has been only one game where AW3 has played significant minutes and was productive, however the rest of his non-scrub minutes have not produced much evidence to consider him someone who should start. Now, if AW3 continues to see a few minutes(non-scrub) and begins to consistently contribute on both defense and offense(meaningful mins), then I would be in favor of upping his non-scrub playing time. Just because he performed well against an over-matched opponent at home, doesn't justify the experiment you are suggesting.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 4 months ago

Sorry for the late reply .. really, there are certain folks willing to take risks, and other that aren't. You aren't.

If you think that White hasn't shown enough, I can't help you there. I have not seen Ellis demonstrate anything offensively yet, and KY is purely a garbage guy.

Every time White has played double digit minutes, he has been productive. In a game at the Sprint center, he scored I think one point and Self gushed about him.

But why risk it .. you've only lost three in a row?

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 4 months ago

I'm guessing that's supposed to be .252 brds/min? No doubt AW3 proved early on he was a willing and able rebounder. I complained multiple times earlier in the season how AW3 was making TRele look weak on the glass. Releford actually did a pretty good job against OU I thought. I also think Ellis is getting better and KYo is maybe the best rebounder on the team, so as much as AW3 has proven solid on the glass, you definitely give up some rebounding potential playing him at the 4. What impressed me early in the season was he boxed out so well. It's definitely nice to be disappointed in a 19-4 record and be able to complain about untapped potential isn't it?

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

Right now if I were to have a say in who starts tomorrow, my line up would be Tharpe, McLemore, White, Young, and Traylor. I know that's a very offensively challenged front court, my reasoning is very simple. Withey, EJ, and Releford have all been playing very timidly lately as if they were afraid to make a mistake. As anyone who has played sports can testify to, if you play to not make mistakes, you inevitably make more mistakes. Naadir and KY have been the only two guys during this losing streak that are playing aggressively and not afraid to make mistakes which is what I think this team needs coming out of the gate. Traylor and White both seem like that kind of player as well and there's just not a better alternative to McLemore right now.

Kye Clark 9 years, 4 months ago

I'd be more inclined to start him at the 3, just because I think Kevin is playing better and providing a bigger net positive than Travis at this point. But, as I say in a post below, I'd be in favor of him playing the 4 whenever Kevin goes to the bench.

Regardless, we are in agreement that there are minutes out there that he could have. 1-4, any of our regular starters can be giving minutes to at least see if AW3 could provide this team with a spark. EJ's minutes obviously come during times he's been at the 2 (on the court at the same time as Tharpe).

JayHok 9 years, 4 months ago

Self has one recruiting spot left for next year. Which player would help us the most considering what we know right now? On the games. Three black eyes. I will say this. The OSU game, the TCU game KU almost got into overtime. Played poorly but almost got there. What if they pulled those two out and Ku finally dropped one to OU. Would things really be all that different in terms of how good we are. A layup from the OU game being 2 points with 14 seconds to go. Understand everyone being concerned. But really each of these games we've lost in the last 10 seconds. Not good by our standards. But something to work with once our players get their mojo back.

Kye Clark 9 years, 4 months ago

No question it's Randle. Look at our post guys now. Then take Withey off the team. The only guys with game experience will be Ellis, Traylor, & Wesley. We have Lucas redshirting, so we don't know what he's going to bring. We only know he couldn't beat out Traylor this year for minutes which is why he's taking the redshirt. We have Embiid coming in, and there's lots of positive buzz about him, but my guess is he's a year away. He'll probably come in and help us, but Randle could come in and start and be that low-post scoring threat that we've been lacking this year.

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 4 months ago

I still don't know how Self can make an Elite Eight run at Tulsa, have such success at Oral Roberts, but appear to NEED an excellent post scorer to have a lot of success at KU. It seems to be the case though, Simien was alone in the early years for the most part and when he struggled so did the team. Cost KU in '06, when Aldrich didn't score it caused huge problems, causing problems this year. In case people don't realize how key Darrell Arthur was to the '08 title, he was absolutely huge. So what I'm saying is you're right, Randle would be key.

LngTimeFan 9 years, 4 months ago

I remain a steadfast KU fan despite the down period. Seems something must have happened inside the locker room for things to have gone S so rapidly. While some of us here pile on surely none here think the guys don't care. Keep trying Hawks, and fans. PE is hustling his butt off when he's on the floor. If they all keep that up things will turn around, maybe not as quickly as we all hope but it will happen. Go KU!

kennethst 9 years, 4 months ago

Quite simply....I think just two problems.....1) They are in a rut.......A rut can and will be fixed. 2) A general lack of talent. .......This can't be easily fixed. But they are still a decent team. I see 5-3 the rest of the regular season.....a #4 seed. Could be worse.

Hoosierhawkfan 9 years, 4 months ago

You're gonna be fine guys. Keep your chins up. K-State is yours for the taking. ROCK CHALK!!!!

Ben Simonett 9 years, 4 months ago

Anybody ready to apologize to me and admit the recruiting struggles were a big concern yet?

kennethst 9 years, 4 months ago

Nope. But I bet a lot of people have to apologize for you......not to you.

phins13td 9 years, 4 months ago

Its hard to keep the faith when you see a team go through the motions for 3 consecutive games, play with NO heart, and see Self continue to throw out the seniors. EJ is floundering, none of the seniors are hitting the free throws that matter, and its sad that we have Releford as a starter (he's a bench player at the very best of times).

phins13td 9 years, 4 months ago

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Judy Culbertson 9 years, 4 months ago

It is my opinion that Monday morning the AD needs to call HCBS to his office and politely tell him that the problem is his problem to fix as head coach, not complain to the press and public about some individual player or the whole team, etc. Further, while we may not have the best talent in the country, it is the head coach's job to prepare the team to play their very best game every time they take the floor. If HCBS needs to use different players or change the game plan, he should do that but quit blaming everyone except himSELF, because that is where the buck stops in the Jayhawk Nation.

phins13td 9 years, 4 months ago

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hammerhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Yeah, yeah. I went to all the home games back when Ted Owens was coaching. There never was this 'win them all feelng' that we have gotten to now. Won some lost some. I'll tell you though, I sure like the win them all feeling a lot better. Someone earlier said the ksu-KU game was often won on pride. Well, I think so too. This game will be one of those really gut checking games for the Hawks. Come on guys, get it together.

Mike Barnhart 9 years, 4 months ago

If I recall, the '04-'05 team complained of fatigue. Langford was sick and Moody had staph infection.

Elijah and Travis look tired right now. Slower, weaker and less explosive then they were a couple of weeks back at K-State. Get by K_State somehow, rest for a week before Texas and all may be well again.

BainDread 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree there is a fatigue problem for some reason. At the start of the OU game, time to the first timeout went long because there was no whistle to stop play. After OU scored at the 13:07 mark, it looked like a couple of the KU players were gassed and turned to the bench begging Self to call a timeout, even though it was only a four point deficit at the time and the game was not getting out of control. I've not seen that from a KU team in a long time.

monkeehawkSL8 9 years, 4 months ago

We are spoiled. Ahh, I'm spoiled, I don't have a mouse in my pocket so I'll retract the "we". My world is out of balance because the basketball team from my home town isn't perfect. This is a pretty high quality problem.

Kye Clark 9 years, 4 months ago what?

3 hour meeting with the coach after the OSU loss. Players only meeting after the TCU loss. Really no more gimmicks to try and spark this team. Just have to go out and get it done.

Couple of points:

  • We definitely have problems scoring, but defense has become a problem too. Yesterday should have been a game we owned. OU's top threats - Osby & Pledger - matched up with our 2 best defenders - Withey & Releford. Instead Osby takes Withey away from the paint and completely neutralizes him, and Pledger found himself free way too often. Also, we had 5 steals, 3 were by Withey and one by Kevin. Our perimeter defense isn't wreaking enough havoc to create turnovers. And with an offensively challenged squad that really hurts. Did we have any fast breaks yesterday? I can't remember any, other than maybe some ill-advised attempts where we didn't have numbers.

  • It's beating a dead horse at this point, but start cutting EJ's minutes. He's been by far the worst performer on the offense end for weeks. Instead he gets a game-high 36 minutes yesterday. I am cutting him a little slack though. He did attempt a game-high 11 shots, which isn't a good thing, but who else is wanting to take these shots?

  • That leads right into my next point: Travis. While his 7 shots are definitely better than recent performances, it's still not enough. Low man among the starters despite playing 35 minutes. He did have 9 rebounds yesterday, and with the slight up-tick in shots it might just be baby steps for Travis.

  • I'm actually not down on Ellis like many other posters. Sure his shots aren't dropping, but he's got to adjust to shooting through contact down there. Eventually he'll find his shooting touch. He's in there willing to shoot and be aggressive. He rebounded & defended yesterday with tenacity, and dove on the floor for a loose ball. We might not see him break out offensively this year, but I've said before it's partially because of his role. He gets in the game and Self is asking him to go get shots for himself. To create offense. Contrast this with KY, who is simply asked to be the garbage man. Kevin only has to get put backs. He's never asked to take his man off the dribble or catch it in the low-post and make a move.

  • AW3 no minutes? Really? HEM pointed this out, but it was a 6 man rotation yesterday. Maybe 7 if you ball up the minutes of Perry, Jamari, & Justin. Right now, AW3 should be in there when Kevin has to come out. There are also opportunities for minutes by playing Travis & EJ reduced minutes.

I have no idea what to expect Monday night. My heart tells me we won't lose a 2nd straight in AFH. That Bill won't let Bruce Webber beat us and cruise right by on route to ending our streak of league championships (how much would that sting?). But my head tells me there hasn't been much evidence to support the belief that things are going to change soon.

AsadZ 9 years, 4 months ago

KSU is playing really well. They are firing on all cylinders. And they are deep. I would not be surprised a bit if our losing streak goes to 4 tomorrow.

Kye Clark 9 years, 4 months ago

Not surprising.

This reminds me of a couple of years ago when Kensucky ascended to #1 in the polls. The printed up T-shirts, for a #1 ranking, in January.

Point is, it doesn't matter right now. No one is going to care if you're in first place now. In five years, no one will remember who was in first place in the Big 12 in early February.

Well, except maybe KSUck fans. The more I think about it, the more I can see this conversation between two fans of the purple pussies now:

EMAW 1 "Hey, remember that time we were ahead of KU in hoops for like a week?"

EMAW 2 "Yeah," chuckles, "that was epic".

EMAW 1 "Let's go watch the DVD they had made up for that!"

EMAW 2 "Heck yeah! Let me say good-bye to my favorite goat and I'll be right there!"

Jonathan Allison 9 years, 4 months ago

to me, the most hilarious thing about this marquee is that KSU fans have been clinging to and celebrating "59-55" every year since 2006 when they last won in AFH. Now they post this marquee, even after "59-55" in Bramlage Colissuem not even a month ago.

Janet Olin 9 years, 4 months ago

Breathe, people. We passionate, die-hard fans should know by now not to get sucked into the outrageous early-season rankings/media frenzy because it's all about last year's team. If asked in Nov. whether we would take 19-4 with 10 or 12 to play and an 80day win streak, nearly all of us would've said, "Hell, yeah!" This is a good, not great, team that will win more games. It was insane to believe Keegan and ESPN talking heads that KU is 'a lock' in Big 12. Coach needed to recruit a PG but didn't; the 'aura' had a lot to do with being in the nat'l title game last year. FTs and lazy passes are lack of mental focus and can be corrected. Of 388 D1 basketball teams, 65 in tourney, only 1 will be happy in the end. According to Wikipedia, KU has the longest current consec. tourney streak(23), longest consec. winning seasons(30) and most all-time D1 winning seasons (94/104). Stay calm and Rock Chalk on.

LngTimeFan 9 years, 4 months ago

The Hawks don't need extra motivation to beat KSU. Keep in mind how small minded the KSU fans are. They measure the success of their season by whether or not they beat KU. They totally miss looking at why the KU programs are far superior to theirs in depth, breadth, and longevity. Let them crow over their football program, they deserve to crow. BBall is another story. Weber has them rolling pretty well, BUT no way can they think their program is even close ot a KU JV team, heck, may be even an intramural team. KSU may beat KU tomorrow night, but absolutely NO WAY are they even close to superior year in year out as is KU.

Greg Lux 9 years, 4 months ago

I love EJ, but right now he is hurting the team by trying to do to much. Between his driving layups, missed free throws, constant turnovers at crunch time he is bringing the team down. I am not about to question HCBS. But I wonder if NT wouldn't do a better job at starting point guard. He is quicker, a better ball handler, a better free throw shooter, and more of a new natural point guard then EJ is for sure. We need a leader on the floor but EJ is not leading he is trying to win the game himself and it's killing us instead. We need a point guard who will help run the offense and get others involved, not try to be the offense when you are missing bunny shots and turning the ball over at crunch time....

Rock chalk

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

Maybe Withey needs to hit some pick-up volleyball games on his off-days of practice? (tongue-in-cheek)

LngTimeFan 9 years, 4 months ago

You have to be on some sort of drug induced high. No way does KSU recruit better than KU year in year out. KSU football success is great, bball not so and there is no way a knowledgeable sports fan could think so yet alone say so. You didn't take very long to bite on the lure either. Gosh you guys are easy! ROCK CHALK!

ahpersecoachingexperience 9 years, 4 months ago

2-3 years ago you made it to the final 8. Wow, congrats! Good thing we're not 5 years removed from a title and one year from playing for it!

Micky Baker 9 years, 4 months ago

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Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

Not as athletic?

I don't know about that. Certainly Traylor, A.Adams, McLemore are VERY athletic.

Mike Barnhart 9 years, 4 months ago

Downthestretchicome, looks like you wrote about 150 words. Can you eat that much?

jayhawkinATL 9 years, 4 months ago

I want to say downthestretch's post sounds like a 12-year old, but that would be insulting to all 12-year olds!

wonderfulhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

To the team and the staff and coach Self,all the jayhawk nation is behinde you all the way.Good luck on monday aganist kansas state.we will win.

Kye Clark 9 years, 4 months ago

Dang...the site deleted my link to an old funny video making fun of K-State. No mention of it being deleted for content or violating the terms of usage agreement or anything. Just gone.

Micky Baker 9 years, 4 months ago

It wasn't just 11-20 from the FT line that hurt. It was that before we were in the bonus in the 2nd half, we missed five of the first 6 free throws in the first 5 or 6 minutes of the second half.

Free throws is what won Kansas the National Championship in 2008 in the Memphis game, 14 of 15 down the stretch including OT. Memphis lost because they didn't make theirs.

Other than that, our offense is too predictable. I think maybe Bill Self needs to shake it up a bit and run different offensive sets and put Traylor in with Withey. If they double Withey, then he needs to recognize it quicker and if the defense doesn't rotate, Traylor's open for a dunk(that'll stop em from double teaming Withey", and if the defense does rotate then Withey needs to throw it to the open guy on the opposite wing and let him drive if the defender closes out.

More importantly, on defense, our guys are indecisive. They need to block out better, and the way you block out is to make contact with the offensive player. Just be physical on the block outs and then grab the ball with both hands.

Some of the passes on our offense are made more difficult by the defenders because they have scouts too. This is a matter of just paying attention when you pass, making sharp passes, and if they're overplaying, BACK DOOR. Beat them on the back side a few times to keep them honest and it forces their defense to rotate. McLemore made some good passes of dribble penetration because the defenders were forced to rotate and if they're fronting a guy and the ball is rotated, then the weak side defender is put at a disadvantage. The same thing would happen on back door plays, even if its early in the clock shot.

Also, a back door play may provide for a skip pass to the opposite wing that creates other opportunities to score. It really is about ball movement. It gets the defensive off balance. Time to step it up.

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 4 months ago

You're right, it was worse than 11 for 20 because several misses were also on the front end of 1&1's, it was a bad performance from the line.

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 4 months ago

I take full blame for this loss. I put money on the Jayhawks and completely jinxed them. Due to that fact OU came out and shot out of the pick and pop like an NBA team. I'll also admit that I went reverse jinx against KU in each tourney game last year except for the NC game, so that might have been my bad also.

Okay, I feel better having confessed. On another note I'd been traveling and not been able to watch the 3 games prior to this (maybe I'll see if I can get the OSU game on replay). Having watched the OU game after not seeing the team for a bit, offensively it was rough. You could tell the players were extremely tight, there just wasn't much joy in it for them whether they scored or not. Self has been hard on them, other teams bring serious intensity for KU games, I think they've been in the same pressure cooker the NCAA tourney can be for a KU team and it hasn't worked out. I'm glad they're having this experience now rather than in the tourney. BMac is trying some different things on offense which I find encouraging, Withey is getting solid post position which is good to see, Releford still looked reluctant which I hope changes, Ellis rebounded it well and went strong at the hoop a couple times which was positive, EJ is struggling offensively but not to the extent he was, Tharpe is a completely different player than last year which is awesome, Traylor hasn't developed throughout the season, KYo is the same guy he has been which is fine 'cause he does play with excitement no matter what. EJ was being too fancy with his dribble in my book, would love it if Self took pressure off him to push the ball and put pressure on him to try to play mistake free for a game. He pushed into 3 players several times in that game rather than just bringing it up and getting into the offense. Everybody loves transition buckets, but if the D is back it's back. It is a little bizarre that OU seemed so good on the offensive glass (granted they took a lot of long jumpers and picked up at least one shot off the bottom of the rim right back to themselves), but at the same time they didn't seem to crash very hard and limited transition opportunities.

KSU is huge, @OSU is huge, win those 2 games and they will win the conference. If they lose one of those the team that beats them is likely to win the B12. I hope they step up to the challenge.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

I think when you're thinking of when OU was doing good on the boards - that's when we went small in the 2nd half and had Releford manning the "4". I was a bit angry that Self wouldn't trust Traylor or Ellis out there more - - - -Young had 4 fouls pretty early.

Pam Rowe 9 years, 4 months ago

hope we can win 20 games this year to keep the streak alive. seniors, and three 5 year seniors, don't improve like teams that have a lot of youth.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

Even as a bad as things have gone as of late, I bet we're probably ranked somewhere between 12th - 15th in the latest rankings and if the season ended today would probably be a 4-seed in the South.

K-State as it stands currently would probably be a 3.

OSU might sneak in as the last 4.

One reason I wanted to see Iowa St. win that game in Manhattan on Sat. is that would've been good for the conference - - - - probably would've had 4 ranked teams then. Oh well.

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