Friday, October 26, 2012

KU forward Kevin Young breaks bone in right hand, expected to miss two weeks

Kevin Young is one of four seniors on the 2012-13 KU men's basketball team.

Kevin Young is one of four seniors on the 2012-13 KU men's basketball team.


Kansas University senior forward Kevin Young suffered a broken bone in the middle of his right hand at practice on Thursday and is slated to miss about two weeks of action, coach Bill Self said Friday.

Young, who hurt the hand running into a screen, is expected to miss one regular-season game, Self said.

"He got it caught on a jersey, on a chest, during a defensive drill," Self said. "He broke a bone in the middle of his hand. Surgery was performed (Friday) morning to insert a screw. He should be back shooting and non-contact in 10 days and hopefully back on the court within two weeks."

Self reported the news to the Journal-World during the 2006-07 men's basketball team hall-of-fame induction ceremony Friday at Allen Fieldhouse.

"I think it's a setback for Kevin and for us," Self said. "He's worked so hard and has been playing so well. It'll give somebody else an opportunity to get some reps now and hopefully better prepare themselves (players who get his reps).

"I know Kevin will not lose any conditioning. The fact he can be shooting in a week to 10 days will cause him, hopefully, to not get too far behind."


BringBackNike 9 years, 9 months ago

"He got it caught on a jersey" Time to dump Adidas! If only it was that easy.

Has anyone and I mean anyone, including LJW, heard what the deal is with our expiring Adidas contract? Could this be the last basketball season with Adidas? We can only hope!

Bring Back Nike!

BringBackNike 9 years, 9 months ago

A monopoly? That would mean there is no competition in the market. Schools have the right to choose their outfitter. They can pick between Nike, Adidas, Under Armour, Russel Athletic. Think of any true "power house program" in basketball or football. They are all Nike, except for us. You are telling me that all of these schools (Kentucky, Duke, UNC / LSU, Oregon, Alabama) were all forced into a Nike monopoly? Not a chance, they made a strategic business decision to continue on with their sucess.

Casey Gee 9 years, 9 months ago

I hear Nike doesn't give nearly as much free shoes and apparel to the non revenue sports as Adidas does, which is why KU doesn't switch to them.

Ethan Jones 9 years, 9 months ago

I'm pretty sure that UCLA and Indiana are "true power house programs" and they also happen to wear Adidas. Kansas is not the only one.

BringBackNike 9 years, 9 months ago

UCLA and Indiana. Interesting you mention them. Where has UCLA been these last 4 years? I haven't heard anything from them. And Indiana signed with Adidas in '04-'05, they fell off the map for almost a decade. I heard they were good in the 70's and 80's, my grandpa once told me about them.

Also, how has the Adidas thing been working out for former football powers Tennessee, Nebraska and Michigan? Not so good.

Ethan Jones 9 years, 9 months ago

Right, so when you look at the preseason AP poll released today and 5 of the top ten teams are Adidas schools it becomes clear that being a Nike school gives you a distinct advantage.

BringBackNike 9 years, 9 months ago

Did you just reference a preseason poll? Get back with me after the season. From 2000 to the present, Nike has won every football & basketball title, minus Auburn football '10 because Cam Newton is a beast and minus KU bball '08 because Self is God. Nike is king! How do you people not see this?

bg_duck1 9 years, 9 months ago

Could not agree more BringBack. Especially for our basketball team Nike is elite and more visible but the reason we switched is because of how much more adidas gives to the school in regards to the non-revenue sports. I was in school when we switched to adidas and that's all anyone in the athletic dept would talk about was the amount of money and amount of gear we would be getting from adidas as opposed to buying it from Nike.

Ethan Jones 9 years, 9 months ago

Okay fine, how about the Sweet 16 last year? 7 of 16 schools wore Adidas. Or half of the Final Four. Uniforms do not improve the way a team plays. I'm pretty sure that the guys wearing the uniforms have more to do with who wins. And if a recruit is picking a school based solely on their uniform supplier, then I'm glad such recruits are playing somewhere other than Kansas.

Robin Smith 9 years, 9 months ago

BringBackNike, I'm down with Nike, their crazy uniforms, I've owned many Dunks, and I also like Addidas and many other brands, but you are a noob -- in the best possible way :D

I'd like us to stick with out current sponsor.

BringBackNike 9 years, 9 months ago

No sir, I am not blaming the injury on a practice jersey simply because it has a three-striped logo rather than a Swoosh. That was a poor attempt at sarcasm. I am blaming Adidas for their plain, unimaginative product line hurting our recruiting process of landing consistent 5 star talent. It's time for this basketball school to get some true basketball gear.

Ethan Jones 9 years, 9 months ago

Because Adidas obviously does not make true basketball gear. They only provide all of the jerseys for the NBA.

Michael Pannacciulli 9 years, 9 months ago

You really think Adidas is the reason we don't have Kentucky's 2013 class?

Nathan Scholl 9 years, 9 months ago

Who cares about Nike? Why are they considered so great? Adidas brings MUCH more money to our athletic programs and the jerseys look a lot cooler than Nikes, not tho mention the shoes are much more quality. Roy Williams had to suck up to Michael Jordan, he's not here anymore, NO ONE CARES. Adidas is better.

Joseph Kuebel 9 years, 9 months ago

Well you are right in the fact that Jordan's brand (a subsidiary of Nike) didn't make Jordan jerseys during the days of Roy. North Carolina is actually a Jordan brand- hence the jumpman logo on UNC jerseys. I would prefer Nike however and do think it impacts recruiting negatively.

texashawk10 9 years, 9 months ago

Adidas is a German company so we could be the ones pronouncing it wrong. ;-)

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Recommend KU move to Mephisto. Their street shoes would be better to play in that the ShoeCo Complex's task designed basketball shoes. High entry cost of $350/pair, but everytime you were out a sole, you just send them back and have them resoled and rehabbed for $70 to $140 and, voila, like new again. They are the best way to go for the street. And if you can't handle the up front cost new, then go to a thrift store near a high end neighborhood and within 3-4 months a pair will show up. Buy them for $5, send them in for rehab, and your into the best quality, most comfortable shoes in the world.

Screw the complex, until they let Self recruit the players he wants.

Michael Pannacciulli 9 years, 9 months ago

Pro Keds Kangaroos L.A. Gear Pony

(those are my choices in that order)

jayhawkinATL 9 years, 9 months ago

adidas gives us a $hit-load more $$$ than Nike!!!

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 9 months ago

All about the benjamins and providing the best facilities possible for the athletes as far as I'm concerned, there's your free market.

johninkc1 9 years, 9 months ago

Don't think Addidas caused Young to get his hand caught. Nike is way overrated and most of their products are UGLY. Nice to have a brand that is not caught up in the overhyped mania of products that Nike loves to push on the public.

Ron Prichard 9 years, 9 months ago

I have never had a Nike shoe that fit right and they would always fall apart fairly quickly. I love the fit and look of Adidas. Adidas and Asics have been the best shoes I have bought in the last several years. Also, I love the look of the Adidas products our teams wear (although I would like to see some updated football helmet and uniform designs).

With that said, I have wondered if the Nike v. Adidas issue has cost us some of the uppermost/elite recruits. Realistically, I don't think so, but just the fact that the thought is there worries me.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 9 months ago

That's funny as I'm SOOOOOOO the opposite. ONLY Nike fits me well. Adidas & Reebok both tend to fit me bad.

Eric Williams 9 years, 9 months ago

The only shoes that fit me well were BK Knights and Reebok Pumps.

BringBackNike 9 years, 9 months ago

raprichard, I'm happy that you look and feel good in your sweet Asic kicks. Unfortunately, in the eyes of recruits, Nike is king when it comes to basketball (football, too). The fact that Bill Self has been able to get recruits when we outfit them in the newest Derrick Rose and Tim Duncan shoes is amazing. Just imagine the talent we can get when we can offer recruits the newest LeBron's, Kobe's, Durant's, CP3's all in Crimson & Blue.

Kyle Cornish 9 years, 9 months ago

I love people think it's just so easy to get Nike back. Adidas gave us 2 times the amount of money Nike did and promised WAY more stuff. If we were with Nike, every sport (including football) other than MBB would suffer in some way. In fact, all the olympic sports would suffer greatly, our budget would suffer and in the end you wouldn't see the results you have. The fact of the matter is... Nobody wants us except for Adidas.

Benz Junque 9 years, 9 months ago

It doesn't MATTER whose stuff is better. What matters is the fact that the vast majority of recruits THINK that Nike's stuff is better. We need to get away from adidas and get signed with Nike as soon as the contract ends.

Bobby Burch 9 years, 9 months ago

Agreed @Johninks regarding the cause of injury. @bringbacknike I think I recall reading that KU resigned a contrat with Adidas. I would have liked to see us mix it up too.

BringBackNike 9 years, 9 months ago

Source? I would be devastated is we renewed. Though, I would be able to keep the same user name for the next 8 years.

702Hawk 9 years, 9 months ago

I'm sorry but I feel like HCBS might have lied about how he broke it. First Zach's shoulder and now Young's hand. Sounds like there might be a to hard high fiver on the team!

Key suspects:

  1. Jeff Withey - Known for his volleyball skills.

  2. Landen Lucas - Big guy, has the size for leverage and the weight to put behind it.

  3. Ben Mclemore - Self says he has fast hands.

Get well fast Kevin we need you.

Eric Williams 9 years, 9 months ago

What about one of the coaches sons? Could there be a mutiny over playing time?

David Leathers 9 years, 9 months ago

Considering that most likely Young was on the Blue team with Withey and McLemore at practice, that leaves Landen Lucas as the primary suspect.

All jokes aside, I wish KY a speedy recovery. I have a feeling he is going to be a key piece of the puzzle this year.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

A perfect storm continues to form around this team.

Doyle leaves then... Evan out six weeks and counting with an ankle, then... Zach out with rotator cuff maybe all season, then... KY out 2 weeks with a broken hand, then...


This team is officially in serious trouble.

The first two losses nibbled around the edge of the team and seemed no big deal.

The third loss cut to the heart of the team's capacity to guard the paint.

This fourth loss cuts to the heart of the team's ability to field an experienced rotation. The break is in his shooting hand, which means he's going to be hampered shooting when he does come back. And It means Young for a month or more is not going to be able make a lot of those big stick backs plays he is known for.

The injury bug is here. Its contagious. It changes the way teammates think for awhile.

1 EJ/Naadir 2 Ben/AWIII 3 Travis/? 4 Perry/? 5 Jeff/Landon

Two exhibitions games for ankles to turn.

Then SEMSU and Dickie Nutt are coming into the field house with 3-4 guys 235-250. Think he won't

Can you imagine the grin on Ratso Izzo's face right now?

He is probably putting a contract out on Jeff Withey right now.

The freshman are about to find out how tough life can be in D1.

Better get out the carbon fiber cups right now.

And order some carbon fiber mouthpieces while they're at it.

Hang on, its going to be a bumpy ride for a least a month or two.

David Leathers 9 years, 9 months ago

I wouldn't consider Doyle leaving a problem. I mean the kid ovbviously didn't want to be here. Think of how that could have affected the team's chemistry. Good riddance.

On a brighter note, the other injuries dont really bother me all that much. I think that maybe if Self weren't our coach I would worry a bit more, but never forget, he is the master strategist of college hoops.

texashawk10 9 years, 9 months ago

The Peters injury is a big deal because nobody knows exactly how bad it really is and Peters was on track to be the 4th big this year and get the 7-10 minutes per game that come with that spot in the rotation.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago


I had a brain short.

I forgot Jamari and Justin.

Okay, then, we are much farther from a perfect storm than I thought.

But I still don't like the feel of things right now.

We need some guys getting well, not more getting hurt.

Gotta turn the corner on this.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 9 months ago

Question mark behind Perry? I think it could only be Jamari. And I don't think I agree with AWIII as backup at the 2. - that'll be A.Adams. AWIII will back up the 3. behind Releford.

texashawk10 9 years, 9 months ago

I don't know how much playing time Adams will see this year. I think the more likely back up for McLemore at the 2 is EJ. When McLemore comes out, bring in Naadir and slide EJ over to the 2 and then bring McLemore back in to give EJ his rest. EJ is going to end up averaging 35 minutes per game at least this year so he won't be off the floor very frequently this season.

David Leathers 9 years, 9 months ago

I think you guys are forgetting that Naadir is just as big of question mark as Anrio is.

texashawk10 9 years, 9 months ago

Not based on what I saw out of Tharpe at the end of last season. He didn't light up the stat sheet but he kept the offense moving and wasn't turning the ball over like he was early on. Tharpe will be an adequate backup for EJ this season.

Eric Williams 9 years, 9 months ago

My probable depth chart.

1 - Elijah/Naadir

2 - McLemore/Anrio/AWIII

3 - Releford/AWIII/Anrio

4 - Young/Ellis/Traylor/Wesley

5 - Withey/Lucas/Peters

I had an asterisk next to Young and Peters, but it does some weird formatting. Anyways, they're injured.

I think we're fine on depth. The sky is not falling just because Jaybate puts a ? behind our starter.

David Leathers 9 years, 9 months ago

I agree with most of you probable depth chart, however, Rio Adams is a 6-3 point guard. He will NEVER play the 3. Besides, barring more injuries, I could bet that Releford averages around 38 minutes/game this season.

Eric Williams 9 years, 9 months ago

I agree with you. I was mostly doing that b/c I tend to see the 2/3 as interchangeable on the offensive end. I agree that Self won't use Rio as a 3 on the defensive end.

And also Releford is our primary defender. The only thing that could cause AWIII to play more or Ben to shift to the 3 would be foul trouble.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 9 months ago

Rock: I disagree on Adams. First, he may not play much. So he has to play to get to my point.

Saying he will never play the 3 ignores history, though. Self will play three point guards at once - he's done it. Robinson/Chalmers/Collins.

You're really talking about perimeter players and the only major difference is who brings it down the court and sets the offense. Brady, Taylor, and Reed were together quite a bit, right? They started together. No pure 3 at all. Releford - Rush - White ... all seem like pure 3s.

But if Adams earns playing time, it is no stretch to think that Tharpe, EJ, and Adams are in the game at once. And you can't tell who is the 2, and who is the 3. Big "if" on earning PT.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 9 months ago

No, I did mean Rush .. I was referring to guys that were pure 3s that were here recently. BMac is a 2/3.

David Leathers 9 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, looking back, I would say that you're correct. I guess I never thought of it that way.

One thing is for sure, it's going to be interesting to see how Self does use these guys. From the few minutes he was in the scrimmage game during Late Night I thought that Rio had a chance to possibly beat out Tharpe for the backup PG role.

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 9 months ago

In theory EJ/BMac/TRel/Ellis/W backed up by Traylor and Tharpe is enough depth. Of course no reason to think KYo and Peters won't come back strong. Should allow White and Lucas to get a few minutes early on as well. The depth KU was showing coming into this season gave good odds on somebody stepping up where needed. At the moment it's mostly up to Ellis and Traylor to step it up in the frontcourt and one of Tharpe/Adams to step it up as backup point. Should have a nice 8 man rotation by the end of the year. In the end SF can be played by TRel, BMac and KYo, so I suspect White won't see the court much later in the season unless it's an absolute 3pt situation.

Priest Fontaine 9 years, 9 months ago

Of course being an Adidas school has cost us some recruits! I thought we settled this a while ago. However, it's obviously not enough of a problem to keep Kansas from being a consistently dominant team. Even though I would prefer to go back to Nike, Kansas will be fine either way. If we did resign with Adidas, why hasn't their been an article? Maybe it slipped through the cracks...

As far as the injuries go, Landen Lucas has gone from the most likely to either red-shirt or transfer, to one of our most important bench players.

David Leathers 9 years, 9 months ago

Dude, KU's contract with Adidas hasn't cost us anything, especially recruits. If anything has cost us recruits look to the southeast at the slick-haired scumbag who calls himself a coach. Yeah, that's right, I said it. Calimari Slick is about as unethical as you can get. His "system" is what brings kids to his program, and it's what takes them away from ours.

texashawk10 9 years, 9 months ago

KU, Louisville, and NC State all Adidas schools. What cost KU Cat Barber was Cat Barber being an idiot on his visit to Louisville.

David Leathers 9 years, 9 months ago

I'm pretty sure Self said something along the lines of, "I'm not going as far as stripping your offer, but please choose another school."

Self will deal with many types of issues if they occur while in uniform, but character issues before you even step foot on campus... BIG no-no.

texashawk10 9 years, 9 months ago

That was my point, Cat Barber did something stupid on his Louisville visit and cost himself a chance to play KU or Louisville which I believe were his top two choices at the time.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 9 months ago

It's just an assumption. Perhaps he just decided to go to NC State. I'd be surprised if Self pulled the offer.

NIKEKNOWS 9 years, 9 months ago

Archie Goodwin “Coach Scott Drew is a great guy. I love Coach Drew. They were one of the first schools that were recruiting me. But I DIDN'T LIKE THAT THEY WERE AN ADIDAS TEAM, but that’s not to say I wouldn’t go to Kansas because Kansas is a great team. I can look over the adidas thing – I own some adidas stuff. I didn’t like their colors, either. I don’t like green and gold. That’s ugly …. When you got ugly colors like that, you gotta be Nike. …. BAYLOR HAS SOME UGLY SHOES, too.” If you don't know who Goodwin is, you will soon. He will lead Kentucky in scoring this year.

While he omits Kansas from the argument against adidas, it is till a moot point, as he signed with Kentucky, who wears Nike. To think that kids aren't directly influenced by the brand of shoes a team wears is absolutely absurd. We live in an era of over exposure for collegiate athletes, who have been a computer or smart phone away from being easily viewed on google and youtube since they were 15. These kids care as much about looking good on the court as they do playing well on the court.

I agree that Bill Self has brought in very many talented recruits, and that he has done as much with that talent as any coach in the country. That is the very reason he deserves a nike swoosh on their jerseys. The swoosh adds a competitive advantage in recruiting, and if that gives Bill another night at his dinner table, then the university owes that to him. His basketball team is the reason the olympic sports exist. Without the basketball and football revenue, those teams wouldn't have gas money to get to their competitions. Signing with Nike is an investment into the entire athletic department, even if they dont give the rowers new shoes.

David Leathers 9 years, 9 months ago

First of all, if a kid is choosing a school based on a freakin brand, I don't want him. Sorry to say, but that's just foolish logic. Besides, you really want a class-act team like Kansas to support such an unethical company? They pay their workers in their Indonesian factory around $4/day. What a salary!! Maybe you can tell that to some of these kids who will someday be millionaires. But then again, they wouldn't give a crap. Looking good has nothing to do with it you silly guy.

You can write this in stone, if a player chooses Kentucky over Kansas or vice versa, they knew where they were going before they ever started. See- Archie Goodwin, Perry Ellis....

BringBackNike 9 years, 9 months ago

RockChalkCali, get off your high horse. Who gives a damn where they are made and how much they get paid for it. Where are Adidas shoes made? What is an Adidas factory worker's salary? No one cares. You are only educated on Nike because you've seen it on the news a few times.

David Leathers 9 years, 9 months ago

I'll jump down just as soon as you do. Nobody cares about Nike. That's all I'm saying. So far, we have the number 2 recruiting class next year, and we wear Adidas. It doesn't matter. The winning speaks for itself.

Adidas also makes their products in Indonesia. The difference is, they pay their workers 5 times what Nike does. (get it, haha)

I'm sorry for getting you all riled up, I just think we have different views. Adidas promotes unity throughout the entire athletic department. I like that, and obviously the University of Kansas does too.

Kyle Cornish 9 years, 9 months ago

I love people think it's just so easy to get Nike back. Adidas gave us 2 times the amount of money Nike did and promised WAY more stuff. If we were with Nike, every sport (including football) other than MBB would suffer in some way. In fact, all the olympic sports would suffer greatly, our budget would suffer and in the end you wouldn't see the results you have. The fact of the matter is... Nobody wants us except for Adidas.

BringBackNike 9 years, 9 months ago

Ask Pitt, Arkansas and Memphis how easy it is to get Nike back...

Marcia Parsons 9 years, 9 months ago

It has been quite a while since I read the article, but the way I remember it is that Nike was only willing to provide uniforms/gear for men's basketball. It was as if they thought they were so great we would take that bad deal to keep them. Instead we dumped them for Adidas who provided uniforms/gear for every team on campus and paid WAY more. They'd have to come in with a great deal, I think, to get us to change back.

Alohahawk 9 years, 9 months ago

KU may have had injuries last season but none that really kept them out of games. It sounds like the Jayhawks are not just going through the motions, but putting true effort into their practices. (With the speed and effort players now put out maybe even BB players need to wear some protection during practices?) Coach Self must feel a little more comfortable this year, what with a few more capable bodies on which to rely.

Let's hope the walking wounded are soon back to their full capabilities. Get well soon, KY, Josh and Evan.

And, let's hope that serious accidents, similar to what happened recently to Wisconsin's Bruesewitz during practice, don't befall any of the Jayhawks. Bruesewitz sliced his leg open on a goal support (stanchion?) and will be out about 4 to 6 weeks. Reports are that he is lucky he didn't receive a permanent injury which would have ended his playing days. As a BB fan, especially at the college (non-paying) amateur level, I hate hearing that any player is injured, and wish him well.

Alohahawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Giant "OOPs", on my part. Old age is creeping in, I guess. In repentance, I just sacrificed a virgin to the Hawaii Volcano Goddess, "Pele".

My apologies to Zach. I guess I was thinking about injuries to previous Jayhawks and Josh Selby came to mind.

And "Mahalo" to REHawk and JayDogger for correcting my mistake. :>?

stinkybulldog 9 years, 9 months ago

I like all the Adidas Originals stuff. It would be cool if our bball jerseys had an old school look.

RJ King 9 years, 9 months ago

I broke two bones in my right hand in a nasty ski fall. No screws - just a cast. But I couldn't even hold a pencil to write for 4-6 weeks. I hope KY's injury is a lot different, otherwise the newbies will get some big minutes and Kevin may get rusty.

JHawk74 9 years, 9 months ago

With pain pills, steroids and blood therapy it only takes 14 days to heal from a broken bone. Just kidding... I agree 2 weeks seems a stretch to be playing good basketball after a broken bone.

REHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Kevin, good luck with a quick recovery. Keep your chin up, maintain conditioning, and do everything possible to reactivate the hand. Your fanbase KNOWS how important you are to this squad. We hope to see you back in action soon.

REHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Perry and Jamari, step up with intensity to make the most of practice opportunities and game minutes while KY recovers! This setback could strengthen the 4 position by January league games.

Adam James 9 years, 9 months ago

Nike as the KING of basketball is up for debate.... If we are talking basketball look at what Adidas has done with the NBA uniforms, warm-up etc. Adidas has established itself as a major player in the basketball market for years to come. KANSAS is an Adidas school and it should stay that way.

Priest Fontaine 9 years, 9 months ago

ok, but first change your avatar. And tell KUSPORTS to get Adidas ads on their site instead of Nike/Brand Jordan.

Philip Nguyen 9 years, 9 months ago

We're an All Day I Dream About Sex school, and it should stay that way. And Nike has sweatshops in Vietnam, I hate them.

hawkmoon2020 9 years, 9 months ago

Don't want to get political, but I used to love Nike BB stuff. Now I shy away since 1. Don't like the new shoe styles (probably because I'm over 50,) 2. Almost all of their products are made from cheap labor overseas. It's downright pathetic. Shoes made dirt cheap, and yet they sell for big bucks. Seems to be a high profit margin in there somewhere, and may explain how Knight gives vast amounts of money to the Oregon Ducks. Please feel free to enlighten me if I am off base.

texashawk10 9 years, 9 months ago

A lot of Adidas gear is made in sweatshops too.

RJ King 9 years, 9 months ago

Nike's headquarters are just outside Portland

machinegun 9 years, 9 months ago

I was really impressed with Kevin's passion for the game especially against Ohio State last year! Kevin is going to be an impact player this year.

Ethan Berger 9 years, 9 months ago

Here are my predictions

EJ will average 13 points and 6 assist. B MAC will average 18 points 5 boards T Rel will only average 10 but do his thing on defense Young will average 8 but he will be the heart of the team Jeff will average 12 points, 9 boards, 4 blocks

AW3 will come off the bench 10 per Ellis will start in Janurary and Average 11 Adams will be our surprise and be the back up to B mac and average 7

Don't agree with? That is okay, would like to see how you think scoring will breakdown.

Alohahawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Hawk90 - Give or take points-wise for the true freshmen, but IMHO, EJ will average a few more points/game, maybe 15/game. Agree, six assists are right in there for him. I'd guess he might also average a lob/dunk per game. If he had a lob/dunk near the beginning of each game that could really give him some freedom for open shots from outside. Keep the defensive man honest.

T. Rel. will average more points during the pre-conference games, then his points will drop when he concentrates on defense during the conference. At that point the newbies will have gained their confidence and their averages will increase slightly.

Scoring pecking order: BMc, EJ, Ellis or T. Rel., White, then Withey. Each will have one or more 20 point games this season. And KY could have 1 or 2 as well. Note: Withey could be #1, if he can get to the line between 5 and 10 times a game, and if he maintains his free-throw percentage.

As it just about always does, the team scoring average will drop during the conference schedule. Familiarity breeds better defense.

texashawk10 9 years, 9 months ago

Sucks about KY, hopefully it doesn't affect his shooting when he starts shooting again in a couple of weeks. Now it's time for Ellis to claim that starting 4 spot and not give it back when Young does come back. It would also be nice to see someone out of Lucas, Traylor, and Wesley step up during the at least 3 games Young will miss and establish themselves as the clear cut #4 big.

As for the NIke vs. Adidas debate, I haven't seen anything concrete about it so I can't confirm this, but I believe KU had been negotiating with Nike but Nike refused to come anywhere near KU's current deal with Nike so KU appears to be headed towards renewing the contract with Adidas. There are positives and negatives to both and it really comes down to what your priorities are as to which brand is better. Based on some reading I've done, which brand a school is really isn't as big an issue as a lot people are making it out to be for basketball. There have been plenty of high profile recruits over the past few years that have gone to a school with a different brand from their last year in AAU. I can't find the article anymore, but it was something like 20-25% of players in the top 10 over the past few years went to a school with a different shoe affiliation from their last AAU team. To me that's a big enough number to believe that shoe affiliation isn't the primary concern of a lot of players, definitely a handful of players, but not the majority of them. Another factor in that is statistic is that quite a few of the elite AAU teams do change shoe sponsorship so there's quite a few kids who have worn both Nike and Adidas in AAU ball.

So in the battle for Nike vs. Adidas, it boils down to what are the KU administrations priorities. With Nike, you get better quality uniforms and more variety of uniforms so a school can have more personality in their uniforms unlike Adidas. The downside of Nike is that their contracts are worth less money overall than Adidas and Nike will only outfit the football team and men's and women's basketball teams while the rest of KU's teams are on their own for uniforms. With Adidas, the pros are a more valuable overall contract and Adidas will outfit every KU team with their gear. The downside is that a lot of Adidas stuff isn't as high quality as Nike and there is also much less variety in the uniforms they provide to schools. Those are the factors the KUAD will choose between when they announce the new deal sometime between now and the end of next June.

jhox 9 years, 9 months ago

I wouldn't be shocked to see Under Armor make a serious run at the contract. The've gotten really aggressive in going after top AAU teams, and a school like KU would be a nice feather in their cap. They definitely have quality gear, and I wouldn't be shocked, if you polled young people, if they rated nearly as high as Nike with young athletes. I do believe Nike is perceived by most young athletes as being superior to Adidas. I'm not sure I'd agree, because Adidas makes high quality stuff, but perception is often more important than reality.

I do think there is a certain amount of "steering" that goes on by handlers off top AAU talent, toward their favored shoe companies, and from a pure recruiting standpoint, it is probably advantageous to be with Nike.

Joseph Kuebel 9 years, 9 months ago

That's pretty ridiculous. I don't see Nike matching that offer anytime soon.

jayhawkinATL 9 years, 9 months ago

Granted this was good thru 2010, but I can't imagine the new offer being any worse.

jhox 9 years, 9 months ago

Two weeks sounds incredibly fast for an injury of this nature to heal. The small bones in the hand don't typically have a great deal of blood supply, which tends to mean slower healing. Maybe the screw will allow him to play more quickly than otherwise, but I'm skeptical.

REHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Last season's Big 12 sixth man of year Michael Dixon suspended from Mizzou hoops indefinitely. Just when the Tigers catch a ray of hope to right the failings of their hapless football endeavors, they shoot themselves in the foot...again.

David Leathers 9 years, 9 months ago

Every time I see that kid I want to smack the cleft lip right off his face.

Jeff Coffman 9 years, 9 months ago

As a note notre dame is another addidas school.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

~Here is what I LOVE about this thread.

Board rats are starting to talk openly about ShoeCo Complex!

~Nike/Converse and Addidas/Reebok merged into a duopoly to soak up market space and prevent another big player from coming into the market space.

~Duopolies are inherently unstable in oligopoly producer market regimes. 3-5 player regimes, or up to 6-11 are more stable than duopolies.

~Nike and Addidas are cooperative agents in conflict, because they are such asymmetric partners. It is going to take them time to work out their differing strengths--Nike in football, basketball and track vs. Addidas in all the other sports around the world.

~The Jordan line alone within Nike does $1B/yr. There is a lot at stake to reconcile between the two cooperative duopolists and this market is very vulnerable to a third, fourth and fifth major player entering to grab a cut of the fabulous global growth curve for shoes as China and India come on line by the hundreds of millions of new homo consumens every 5 years for then next 20 years.

~But this is not really about basketball, or track, or soccer, or individual sports. This is really about spreading an oil based apparel market that includes shoes and fabrics. It is about convincing more and more and more kids to wear oil on their bodies and their feet. This is about future growth. From the oilcos POV, it is wasteful to use oil to grow fibers to then make fabric garments and to use oil to grow corn to feed cattle to make hides to make shoe leather. Fibers and leathers are middle men to be cut out. The object of the game is to shift human beings over to wearing oil without middlemen. Frankly, and I hate to say this, because I prefer fibers and leathers, but substituting petro fabrics and petro shoes for fibers and leathers probably massively reduces the carbon foot print.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

~What people still don't understand, because of a massive propaganda campaign to make them think otherwise, is that oil is plentiful and a renewable resource. Significant amounts of it are regenerated abiotically. Its everywhere. Its shallow. Its deep. Much of it is not sweet crude though. Lots of it is sour crude and lots of it is like pitch (whats under eastern Kansas). The problem is that refining it and burning it makes a stink and maybe some climate change to go along with the solar cycle that is warming everything up on all the planets of the solar system. So the obvious solution is to substitute LNG for liquid fuels like gasoline and diesel, and run cars on hydrogen fuels cells and electric motors. But to do that you've got to migrate to electricity incrementally through hybrids so as not to wipe out all the sunk costs in internal combustion at once. But then you have a problem with what to do with all the oil you quit burning? The solution is simple: wear it. Wear petro clothes and petro shoes. Down with fibers and leathers. Fibers and leathers take a whole bunch of oil to grow them in the form of fertilizers and pesticides and this is kind of dumb. Petro clothes and petro shoes could be fully recyclable. Petro attire also cuts out the fiber middle men and drastically reduces the need for animals. Growing fibers and growing animals are a huge waste of oil and ground water, even though I like cotton shirts and leather shoes myself. So: the oilcos are restructuring the economy in a huge way. But the oilcos are cash cycle enterprises and not efficiency driven machines. They are not really doing the restructuring for the efficiencies it may yield to the macro economy. They are doing it because it makes strategic and cost/benefit sense to their livelihoods. The oilcos are taking more direct control of the global apparel business with oil attire. This global apparrel bidness is worth taking over. It is huge and about to spike out of site as 200million Chinese and Indians enter the economy every 5 years as new persons affluent enough to wear oil. Big market. Very big.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

~There's also a digital interactive dimension to all of the petro-shoe business. Remember that human beings in the technotronic age are going to be joining The Borg. Cell phones and nanos are just the start. The really big next step is into smart apparel. Clothing and shoes are going to become digitally interactive exo-structure; i.e., the external equivalent of an infrastructure of the human individual. Petro-clothing and petro shoes, because of the ability to embed electricity conducting of the kind in the buttons of your TV remote, will turn clothing and shoes into performance enhancing, medical monitoring, and pleasure enhancing attire and footwear. Shoes are very crucial in this future scenario. Shoes can be turned into electricity generators from the compression and expansion of the souls. Shoes will also be the interface with smart floor surfaces in buildings and sidewalks and probably car floors. And petri-shoes and petro clothers are much better suited to this future of interactivity in The Borg than are natural fibers and natural hides.

~So: there is a lot more that is being fought over in basketball shoes wars than just which school and which players wear which brand right now. There is a duopoly being built that will at some point be expanded into a more conventional producer oligopoly that is supposed to convince more and more people they need to wear oil in order to get them comfortable for the transition to the highly interactive Borg.

jhox 9 years, 9 months ago

OK, Jaybate, I have to ask. What chemicals induced such deep thoughts? These comments were way out there, even by your standards.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago


I write these sorts of envelope stretchers expressly for board rats like you. :-)

You can read about smart fabrics in pretty much any futurist forecast. Electricity conducting rubber is old news of course. Its in your couch potato remote buttons and has been for a few decades now. But its coming to a shirt near you. :-)

Smart fabrics will one day become a kind of real time CT scan of your body. It will come in soliders combat uniforms, so when each solider is wounded, his medical status will be instantly available and medics will instantly know what to do. Also all sorts of drug packs imbedded inside the soldier will be activated by wireless connection to begin treating him internally even before the medic arrives. This will trick down to civilians.

Don't want to destabilize you here, but get ready for invisibility suits, too. Using fiber optic threads to bend visible light around things is already being experimented with in military clothing and of course that's exactly the kind of thing that trickles down to the private sector.

Next, the concepts of substituting petroleum for non petroleum substances in products is way old. When USA couldn't get natural rubber from Vietnam in WWII they had to come up with synthetic tires, which was another name for tires made from oil instead of natural rubber. After the war the demand for tires became so great and the oil based tires became so relatively cheap that most tires migrated permanently to synthetic rubber.

Nylon and rayon and orlon are natural fiber substitutes.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Somebody switched on the edit jaybate button again.

plasticJHawk did this. :-)

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Emerging nano fibers that make things water proof, breathable and so on, plus nano fibers that enable all kinds of stuff in your Apple products just keep coming.

Next, there has been a long standing debate about whether the world should use land and water and petroleum based pesticides and fertilizers to grow grains to then feed to cattle and pigs and chickens to produce protein foods and fibers for clothing.

We can refine oil straight into shirts, pants, underwear and socks. Why deplete soil resources and ground water to make natural fiber jeans, when we don't need to? And the synthetic products can be largely re-refined and recycled. Sucking oil out of the crust and perhaps the abiotically formed oil out of the mantle and refining it frankly probably does way less harm to the environment than high tech agriculture does.

Of course we have to eat something, so food will have to keep using a lot oil based pesticides and fertilizer, at least until the genetically modified seed stock can be made both robust and non toxic enough to be pest resistant and able to yield adquately without fertilizer. But that will come to.

Really, jhox, you've got to get out of your Barcalounger a little. There are things going on in the world. Science is marching on. Just because I don't happen to like oil wars and oil empire, and 24/7 torture prisons, and pepper spraying Occupy Wall Street folks doesn't mean that I think the human condition is hopeless or static. Science and technology are still on the march. More and more persons are going to have higher and higher standards of living over the coming centuries. No matter how much you insist on wearing blinders about it is going to happen. The change is relentless. It is scary at times. But the change cometh. The same thing that brought you the box you post through is going to connect you up beyond your wildest dreams.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

or was it jhox that switched on the edit jaybate button?

JakeBarnes 9 years, 9 months ago

I hope this isn't one of these years where injuries cause KU mega-problems.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

It appears it already is, Jake, though I have been duly reminded that we have jamari and Justin in the wings to replace Zach. :-)

Ron Franklin 9 years, 9 months ago

Get well Kevin. SOUNDS Like coach Self is Pulling for Kev, doesn' t it!? He isn't sure yet that he can hold the position but would like to see it-- probably because Kevin works so hard.

REHawk 9 years, 9 months ago so hard and has considerable experience, esp. in the Self system of hi-lo motion offense and man to man defense (also the occasional triangle and 2 which blew away Roy's troops late last season).

Dan Pawlowski 9 years, 9 months ago

I think you shoe guys need to get a grip. I don't want a kid because he likes the shoes. I want a kid who likes the coach and the school.

VailHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

+1. HCBS gets quality kids (for the most part) that want to work and get better and play for the BEST basketball program ever. If a recruit is concerned that we don't have a swoosh then he should go Squid. Shoe wars exist in golf, too ever since Nike bought Tiger in mid 90's. Adidas owns Taylor Made and has some young players like Rory however Nike appears to be pursuing him now. Puma actually has all young hip/cool/rad/groovy players.

Bob Harvey 9 years, 9 months ago

Interesting you would bring up Puma. Puma and Adidas were started by brothers in a little town in Germany called Herzogenaurach (about 15 miles north of Nurnburg). While in the Army I was station there and often times the GI's would be asked to be the models for Adidas and Puma catalogs; mostly shoes, but warm up gear as well.

The brothers worked together but at some time in the late 40s I believe they had a fight and split, one with Adidas and the other forming Puma.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

I recall they were reputedly Nazis for awhile, too.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 9 months ago

I posted this on the wrong thread this morning .. had nothing to do with Cremins:

KC Star today .. Self indicated that Young was going to be a starter prior to the injury. That was how I read it.

I can guarantee one thing .. Self is thinking about one thing only: Michigan St.

Expect Ellis to start. And then a mish-mash of Lucas, Traylor, Wesley as the game situation dictates.

Some of the positive "skills' noted with Lucas may be given their time shine. He seems to be the one different than the others (meaning, bluntly, the word "skilled" has never been associated with Wesley or Traylor).

Weird how injuries work out. Peters. Now Young. If necessity is the mother of invention, opportunity is the father of success. Lucas has been the guy most have said .. if a big guy transfers .. it will be him. How nice would it be for him to seize this opportunity and for all of us that have said his transfer is a possibility, to be wondering how we ever would have gotten by without him?

REHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

We were so fortunate not to undergo such injuries last season. Yeah, opportunity really comes knocking for Lucas, Traylor and a more experienced Wesley. Their early game minutes just might build a level of substitute experience which makes for a much stronger squad by February. Perry will undergo a baptism by fire in that Michigan State contest.

Jeffery Barrett 9 years, 9 months ago

Since there is no story yet I'll post it here.

Cole Aldrich traded to Rockets! Wow!

Sam Constance 9 years, 9 months ago

I know I'm way late to this party, but I wanted to chime in that I have no desire to land any recruit for whom the brand of shoe/jersey we provide to them is a dealbreaker.

Much the same way I want no recruit for whom needing to be told he'll start from Day 1 is a dealbreaker.

I know everyone wants to wring their hands and fret and worry about our recruiting, and on some level, it's obviously important that we recruit successfully. But I'm a little saddened by the fact that, in spite of watching Self consistently get great results with classes that can only be considered "good" (a step down from the "elite" classes of guys like Calipari pulling in multiple top ten guys), we still insist on clinging to the gospel of the recruit rankings.

As HEM is fond of saying (paraphrasing), the recruiting numbers aren't meaningless, because in general, over the long haul, kids ranked higher will tend to pan out at a higher ratio. But something we, as fans, often miss is the fact that the number is only one part of the equation. How well a given kid contributes to a program depends on a whole host of factors outside the scout ranking, like attitude/toughness, work ethic, intelligence, emotional maturity, leadership, fit, and even "acts of god" (which I bring up due to the way in which Selby's season was derailed). Yes, the scouts try to account for all of these things except "fit" and "acts of god", but at the end of the day, they are extrapolating things like leadership, work ethic, and maturity from the on-court performance, which doesn't always make those things clear, and the more physically gifted an athlete, the less glaring other shortcomings look.

I guess all I'm saying is that recruiting is an area in which there is some flexibility in terms of what we need to be successful as a program, mostly because of our outstanding coach. There is no harm in expecting excellence, but I wish we would keep some perspective about the fact that ultimately, what we all want is for our program to be successful in wins and losses, and that recruiting class rankings are only a component of that success.

Can we at least wait until we are no longer in the midst of eight consecutive league titles--including a Final Four and a National Championship in that time--before we do things like demand that we return to Nike's terrible deal because of the impact it's having on our "awful" recruiting?

Commenting has been disabled for this item.