Kansas defeats Kansas State, 59-53

  • 8 p.m., Feb. 13, 2012
  • Bramlage Coliseum, Manhattan, KS

Tuesday, February 14, 2012

A clean sweep: Tyshawn Taylor talks it up after KU victory

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor pops his jersey as he leaves the court following the Jayhawks' 59-53 win over Kansas State on Monday, Feb. 13, 2012 at Bramlage Coliseum.

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor pops his jersey as he leaves the court following the Jayhawks' 59-53 win over Kansas State on Monday, Feb. 13, 2012 at Bramlage Coliseum.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 59-53 victory over Kansas State on Feb. 13, 2012.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KSU coach Frank Martin

Kansas State coach Frank Martin talks to reporters following the Wildcats' 59-53 loss to Kansas on Feb. 13, 2012.

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KU vs. Kansas State

Box score

— Tyshawn Taylor stared into the boisterous Kansas State student section late Monday night in Bramlage Coliseum, pulling out his jersey and the word “Kansas” in the direction of those who tried to make his life oh-so-miserable the previous two hours.

“They had their time to talk to me while I was warming up and during the game, so I figured I had my time to talk to them a little bit after the game. After we get a win, it’s my time to talk a little bit,” Taylor, Kansas University’s senior guard, said with a smile — after collecting 20 points and five assists against three turnovers in 37 minutes of the Jayhawks’ 59-53 victory over the Wildcats.

He hit a pair of crucial threes to open an 11-0 run that erased a 37-36 second-half deficit with 11:49 left and gave the Jayhawks the lead for good.

Taylor — who missed the front end of a pair of 1-on-1 free-throw situations in the final 1:03 as KSU cut KU’s lead to 55-51 before Thomas Robinson cashed two big charities at :21.3 — was “terrific,” coach Bill Self said after his Jayhawks improved to 21-5 overall and 11-2 in the Big 12. KSU dropped to 17-8, 6-7.

“Tyshawn has been unbelievable in conference play, arguably as good a player in the league,” Self said. “The guy played 37 minutes. His body is dead tired. He told me yesterday, ‘I’m as tired as I have ever been,’ and we play him 37. Unfortunately, he didn’t finish the game. Free throws. He’ll work on that. I’d rather have a guy hit threes than free throws. It’s more points.”

Taylor said there were no excuses for missing free throws in crunch time, as he did in a 74-71 loss on Feb. 4 at Missouri.

“I just (stink) at free throws right now,” Taylor said. “I don’t know what it is. I’ve got to get back in the lab and work on them.”

Taylor, who dislocated a finger in the second half and had it popped right back in, hit a three just before the shot clock expired after chasing down a deflected pass into the backcourt.

That three gave KU a 39-37 lead.

“It’s one of the biggest ones (shots of his career),” Taylor said. “We didn’t have anything going at the time. Then I was able to hit another one right after that, and we had a lead.”

His second three, which came right after he had a shot rejected, gave KU a 42-37 advantage at 10:10.

Taylor ripped home a baseline slam dunk with 4:49 left, giving KU a 49-39 lead. It was similar to the baseline jam he had at Missouri that proved to be KU’s final points of that 74-71 loss in Columbia, in which KU blew an eight-point lead down the stretch.

“It crossed my mind a few times,” Taylor said of KU seeing an opponent cut into a late lead. “Two minutes left, they hit a shot, I thought, ‘Here we go.’”

But Robinson’s two free throws at :21.3 gave KU the breathing room it needed at 57-51, though Rodney McGruder (he and Will Spradling were chased by KU’s triangle-and-two defense the second half) cut it to four by hitting a deep two-pointer at 8.1 seconds. Conner Teahan cashed two free throws at 6.8 to conclude the scoring.

Robinson had 10 points and Teahan two on a night Jeff Withey went for 18 with 11 rebounds and nine blocks.

“It’s always good to win here,” said Taylor, who lost once in Manhattan — last year — during his four-year KU career.

For Taylor, it was sweet redemption to leave the arena with a sign that his sister, Tatianya, found in the KSU student section.

“Hey Tyshawn, Pass Me the Ball,” the sign read.

“She’s been running around looking for signs,” Tyshawn said with a smile. “I think she’ll keep that one.”

KU will meet Texas Tech at 7 p.m. Saturday in Allen Fieldhouse.


jayhawker_97 10 years, 7 months ago

Taylor, who dislocated a finger in the second half and had it popped right back in, hit a three just before the shot clock expired after chasing down a deflected pass into the backcourt.

TT = true warrior

hawk316 10 years, 7 months ago

“The guy played 37 minutes. His body is dead tired. He told me yesterday, ‘I’m as tired as I have ever been,’ and we play him 37."

This is why, I strongly suspect, Tyshawn misses those late free throws and commits some of those silly turnovers in the latter part of the game. He is simply exhausted. Anyone who has played basketball much knows that when you get extremely fatigued, your shot is often short (as was TT's free throws Monday night) and you make dumb mistakes. "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."

But does TT make excuses for this? No. “I just (stink) at free throws right now,” Taylor said. “I don’t know what it is. I’ve got to get back in the lab and work on them.”

A "true warrior," indeed, jayhawker. We have been most fortunate to have him on this team. He is special, and it is time for those in the jayhawk nation who have not yet done so, to fully embrace him.

HawksWin 10 years, 7 months ago

+1 Take that couch bballers who sit on your rear & criticize these players through a microscope! I've read somewhere TRob needed some fluid after the game. These boys are tired two days after Baylor on Sat.

Shawn Marshbanks 10 years, 7 months ago

+100 love it he might be one of the most toughest pg

siamsam 10 years, 7 months ago

So - can somebody help me out with the stats - is it possible that TT is the winningest four year starter in KU history?

Michael Luby 10 years, 7 months ago

I dont think we can say that yet. Maybe by the end of the season though, we'll see. Awesome question

jayhawker_97 10 years, 7 months ago

TT started playing '08, if you go to and count how many wins from '08 till now (114) with (best case scenario) the possibility wins all the way to become NC: 5 (conference), 3 (b12-tourney), 4 (ncaa) i apologize if i'm missing 1 or 2. :) add them all up together. it's still < 130. so, i think Collins is still da man in that category.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

Yeah but he was saying as a 4 year starter. Collins didn't start his first two years. Although you'd really have to go in and dig through every games' records, because remember Tyshawn had gotten benched for Brady at one point his sophomore year, suspended, etc. You couldn't just look at KU's record in this respect

siamsam 10 years, 7 months ago

So maybe the question would be has TT started and won more games than any other player in KU history? Just wondering. Surely someone could track that down.

Spencer Goff 10 years, 7 months ago

Win percentage in games started would also be interesting to see, but it would require a certain amount of games started (baseball hitting rule).

I doubt that TT is tops on the wins list though, with the reasoning that Ict pointed out.

If you are talking wins as a starter I won't be shocked if it is somebody like Danny.

dylans 10 years, 7 months ago

I would be surprised the rest of the team (the miracles) wasn't that great. Russ Rob started all four years. Raef Lafrentz would be up there, but Roy's teams typically didn't win at as high a percentage as Bill's teams. The older teams didn't play as many games so win percentage is probably a more telling comparison.

Spencer Goff 10 years, 7 months ago

I'm just saying it would have to be somebody that started close to all four years, and won a lot of games.

Also, that 1988 team ended up winning 27 games, so even though their regular season was not elite they finished with a solid amount.

Spencer Goff 10 years, 7 months ago

Also, those first two Raef years were not that dominant, and he would also suffer from a lack of deep runs in the tournament. If I recall correctly they had one Elite 8 run (Syracuse can suck it), a couple of Sweet 16 runs (Arizona can suck it), and then the Rhode Island affair but you might check me.

There have to be other guys too. There have to be some other guys we are not thinking of, which is what makes this such a hard question.

Did Aaron Miles start his freshman year or a part of it? Hinrich or Collison? They won a lot of games during that time frame, and made a number of deep runs in the tournament.

Spencer Goff 10 years, 7 months ago

Actually, I think it is a great question, but the problem is the difficulty in locating and compiling the right statistics.

And we are talking about a lot of years to peruse over. Xcel spreadsheet power GO!!!

siamsam 10 years, 7 months ago

Yes you're on the right track in my line of questioning. I know it would be hard to track down, but TT has to be up there in terms of total wins as a starter. I am not saying that puts him in Danny Manning's company in terms of overall impact as a Jayhawk, but still is pretty cool to think of a guy who has been talented and consistent enough to make an impact for an awful lot of "W's" for this program. They should get some staffer at LJW to do the research in time for Senior Night.

Spencer Goff 10 years, 7 months ago

I think the list would be a phenomenally talented list of former players. Just the names we have thrown out of people that could potentially be on that list is impressive, and that is without really digging.

Miles, LaFrentz, TT, Manning, and so on.

siamsam 10 years, 7 months ago

Yes I'm saying STARTER. I'm pretty sure Tyrel Reed is all time winningest player, but wondering where TT's stats put him in all time wins as 4 year starter - rare company I'm guessing.

Dirk Medema 10 years, 7 months ago

6 tourney games to the NCAA championship.

justinryman 10 years, 7 months ago

You have to take into account that they are playing more games now than they were 10 years ago let alone 24 years ago. More Non-con games. Bigger conference. Bigger conference tournament. Preseason tournaments.

Therefore Tyshawn might have an edge just on the fact that there are more games played per season than when Danny Manning played.

Just something to account for

tdscpa 10 years, 7 months ago

Is Tyshawn's sister, Tatianya a KU student? If so, cool!

JurisJayhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

She isn't. I think she's still in grade school.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

Glad to get out of there with a win, but there were several areas of concern:

  1. TRob. Even POY candidates are allowed to have an off-night or two. But it was his lack of energy that was upsetting. Not getting rebounds. The lazy defense (how many 3s does Jamar Samuels have to hit before you extend your defense beyond the free throw line and get your hand up?). Getting blocked on at least 2 dunk attempts. The dunk/point-blank blocks have happened in a few recent games. It's like at times he has no lift; that he's hit a wall. Perhaps because he's not used to playing this many minutes he was bound to slow down eventually? I hope not, because that doesn't bode well for the remainder of the year.

  2. Rebounding. This obviously ties into TRob somewhat, but we were manhandled on the glass for much of the game. Somehow (maybe due to them getting out of their regular sets the last couple of minutes in an effort to mount a comeback) we almost evened it up late, but it was a very soft effort by the team as a whole. And it isn't just that game. In Big XII play we have been out-rebounded in 6 of 13 games. With our length this is inexcusable.

  3. Tyshawn's late game struggles. Yeah yeah, we wouldn't be in these games without Tyshawn's great performance earlier in the games. His stats don't actually look that bad either, just for those that were scrambling for the box score in an attempt to refute this claim. He plays great for the most part, but basketball games are 40 minutes long and it only takes a few minutes to turn a victory into a loss. He was bad at the end of the Duke game, the Misery game, then a couple days ago against Okie St. he had some late game miscues, then again tonight. Missed the front end of a 1-and-1, turnover, missed the front end of another 1-and-1. (And there seemed to be some disagreement over the over-and-back call. Some posters claimed the line itself doesn't constitute a violation. Some posters, and Bob Knight, claimed it does. Any clarification?). I like Tyshawn. But even to his staunchest supporters, the ones who do nothing but defend and deny any criticism aimed his way, let me ask you this: in a close ball game in the final minutes, can you honestly tell me you don't feel uneasy watching him play? That even after a great performance for 36 or 37 minutes are you not waiting for the other shoe to drop? As much as I do in fact like him and as great as he played early on, he has given me no reason to trust him down the stretch.

Ben Kliewer 10 years, 7 months ago

OK. We'll put you on the court for 37 minutes and then talk about how lazy you are in the last two...

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

Where to begin...

First of all, obviously I couldn't do better. I would think that would go without saying, but apparently you think that is an apt comparison - whether I could play those minutes and do better than TRob or Tyshawn. No, I am not a 20-year old world class athlete. Never was. Does that mean that I don't recognize things about the sport because I've never walked a mile in those players' shoes?

Secondly, I am wondering to which particular point you are objecting. The fact that you bring up 37 minutes makes me think it's Tyshawn's play. To that I will ask you again as I did in my post - does he make you uneasy in the final minutes? If not, then I need the name of your anesthesiologist because you are surely heavily sedated during the games. Now we can discuss the merits of whether this is solely on him or whether it's Bill's fault for playing him so many minutes. If that is your point, then you need to work on your delivery because you should just come out and say "it's not his fault. He's playing too many minutes."

The fact that you use the word "lazy" leads me to believe you may have been defending TRob's defense last night, since that is how I described it. To that I would say that my characterization of his defense does not only apply to the last 2 minutes. The guy was left open to hit shots from the start of the game. Surely fatigue was not a factor then.

Writing this I surely realize how pointless it is; due to the nature of your response you are going to continue with the attitude that the players are above even the slightest criticisms and you will continue with the dismissive posts that really add nothing to the debate. When you're ready to argue the points with something more valid than "you couldn't do better", feel free too respond.


hawk316 10 years, 7 months ago

I fully agree with Kleave. icthawk. Check out my theory above...

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 7 months ago

I agree ict..but in some ways, it is not his fault. HCBS needs to find a way to give TT a little more rest. Tharpe is the obvious first choice but when he is at his best he has zeros across the board. No TOs, no fouls, no points and maybe an assist. If he could do that for 6-7 minutes, it would help TT a lot.

I understand why Tharpe should get the majority of his minutes in the 1st half but what I don't understand is why we play our starters so long when the game is no longer in doubt.

EJ is far more a worry to me. He should be at a higher level with 2 1/2 years under his belt.

Good analysis ict.

Katie Bieber 10 years, 7 months ago

1) I would totally agree that if McGruder or Spradling were the ones hitting 3s, we'd be out on them. You have to assume that at some point your opponent will shoot the ball. If that shot is a 22 footer from their big man, whether he makes the shot or not, it's a defensive success, because from a numbers perspective, he would be the guy you want taking that shot so far from the basket. He made them tonight, but Bill's MO for the last couple seasons is to let them take the shot you'd choose them to take and keep them away from the shots they'd choose to take. If they suddenly make 60% of those shots when they normally make 30% (VCU), you still play the season numbers.

2) I couldn't agree with you more. Our rebounding was weak. Really, our boxing out was weak. Kids need to know that once the ball is shot, you shouldn't have to watch it. You know where it's going. Find your butt. Find your man. Connect them. You may not get the rebound, but your man will NEVER get the rebound.

3) I believe the rule is that once the offensive player completely advances beyond the half court line, that line then becomes like any of the other out-of-bounds lines in that touching it will result in turnover. He had completely advanced and then touched the line, so it's essentially out of bounds. Interestingly, I believe that while advancing, if a player steps one foot over but does not advance the other foot, the advanced foot may return to the backcourt with no violation because player had not completely advanced into his half of the court. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

Alohahawk 10 years, 7 months ago

I may be wrong, but I believe a player can stand in the backcourt while dribbling the ball a couple times in the frontcourt and still be considered in the backcourt. His whole body, both feet, must be across the line, not just the ball. If he straddles the line, he's still in the backcourt.

Jeremy Wilhelm 10 years, 7 months ago

That's how the rule reads - TT definitely crossed over before stepping on the line. Didn't love it but it was the right call.

jhox 10 years, 7 months ago

Alohahawk, I think what you're referring to is the rule where by both feet and the ball have to be established in the front court before you can have a back court violation. Once all 3 "points" (both feet and the ball) are in the front court you have established possession in the front court. Then it just takes having one of those 3 "points" on or over the line to be a back court violation. You were on the right track, but only in terms of establishing what constitutes a player being in the front court.

jhox 10 years, 7 months ago

Alohahawk, I think what you're referring to is the rule where by both feet and the ball have to be established in the front court before you can have a back court violation. Once all 3 "points" (both feet and the ball) are in the front court you have established possession in the front court. Then it just takes having one of those 3 "points" on or over the line to be a back court violation. You were on the right track, but only in terms of establishing what constitutes a player being in the front court.

justanotherfan 10 years, 7 months ago

The backcourt/ no backcourt play started out as a side inbound for KU. On an inbounds play, you can throw the ball into the backcourt as long as it is not touched in the frontcourt.

The ball went through Tyshawn's legs. It wasn't clear whether or not he touched it. If he did, it was a backcourt, but at full speed, its hard to tell. If there was no touch, the correct call was made.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

No this isn't the play we are referring to. That wasn't a violation and wasn't called as such. I'm talking about when he picked up his dribble and his foot touched the half-court line. The ref pointed to the line and called him for it. I thought it was the right call, but people on the in-game discussion were going nuts about how we got jobbed again by the refs.

nb4ku 10 years, 7 months ago

Doesnt matter whether Ty touched it or not. He must "control" it to be considered backcourt.

Jim Roth 10 years, 7 months ago

He didn't have possession until he and the ball were in the backcourt.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

dstnku - I agree that we want Samuels taking that shot. However, I think Self would tell you that we still want a hand in his face. That is his MO. And we've seen him get burned by allowing big men to shoot uncontested shots. See Jordan Eglseder. Samuels hit two against us in Lawrence as well, so it's not without precedent that he makes them when we leave him open.

Steve Gantz 10 years, 7 months ago

I did some reffing about a decade ago and you're correct. It drives fans crazy but the player in your scenario can even dribble the ball back into the back court and not be called for a violation

siamsam 10 years, 7 months ago

Official NCAA Rules: Rule 4, Section 3, Article 2: A team’s front court shall consist of that part of the playing court between its end line and the nearer edge of the division line, including its basket and the inbounds part of its backboard.

The key there is "nearer edge". It was a violation.

Ann Oneill 10 years, 7 months ago

Except last night when he said that Kansas goes 9 men deep on their rotation...

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

Who can't count? Robinson, Taylor, Johnson, Withey, Releford, Young, Wesley, Teahan, Tharpe. Is that nine? All valuable players and contributors.

nb4ku 10 years, 7 months ago

Anyone who has watched us play this year or taken their time to do their homework wouldn't say we go nine deep. While I agree we "play" nine players, I would argue that's not the point Knight was trying to make.

David Robinett 10 years, 7 months ago

Jesus was pretty good, except for that Mary Magdalene thing...

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

What bothered me about him is when he turned water into win. I would have thought a lot of him if he hadn't done it.

packywacky88 10 years, 7 months ago

I wish Bill Self could turn water into "wins". He turns everything else into them.

Ryan Shelton 10 years, 7 months ago

What pseudopigrapha have you been reading?

hawk316 10 years, 7 months ago

dave, as oklahawk58 has correctly implied, your comment is based on sources that are without historical foundation. Although you may have said this "tongue in cheek" (sometimes it's hard to recognize sarcasm in print), you would do well to go read the original accounts, if your comment was serious. The gospels deliver solid history (Luke, for example, has often been praised by scholars for his accurate account of 1st century historical events). Far superior to Rice's "Jesus Christ Superstar." :-)

Micky Baker 10 years, 7 months ago

That's dumb. T-Rob had 3 fouls throughout much of the second half. Of course he was trying not to get 4 or 5, but he did get 4 down the stretch.

But he was also fouled a lot and it wasn't called.

Ryan Shelton 10 years, 7 months ago

Typically a head coach wants to keep his star out of foul trouble.

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 7 months ago

Lack of energy on defense? Selfish? This guy is the star on one of the top defensive teams in the country. I really get sick of nonsensical potshots like this one.

jsillyghawk 10 years, 7 months ago

  1. Rebounding. Lots of the problems in this area this year have to do with fatigue, I imagine. (Even if this game we cut into the rebounding deficit late in the game....) Previous great KU teams had one (and often two) players off the bench who could bang and clean the glass--Graves, Pugh, Kaun, etc. Having two of the best rebounders in the Big XII (the two best?) won't be enough to carry us, if, for the twenty minutes combined that they do not play, our reserves can collect only three rebounds. Rebounding and the effort it requires is a team issue, meaning that I could point out at least one instance for each starter in which effort was lacking in rebounding hustle, but we need look no farther than the pitiful post play of our bench to explain this year's generally mediocre rebounding.

I think we're still highly ranked in Big XII and national rebounding numbers--by mediocre I mean KU standards, not any others.

FMTXJayhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

A conference win on the road against a rival in a hostile environment and you just want to tear it down. Guess if we lose a game later you'll be able to say 'I told you so'.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

Your attitude seems to be "we won, so it's all good."

This flies in the face of one of the most revered phrases in sports - it's not whether you win or lose but how you play the game.

No one is suggesting we "tear it down", but there are areas of concern. And this isn't just a malcontent board rat attitude. It comes from Coach Self (and really every coach in the country shares this perspective). At halftime we were leading and he says "we aren't rebounding the ball." I'm curious, as to your logic, why would he say that when we were winning? Strange huh? How about against North Dakota...we won that game by 26 points, but Self was so displeased with Jeff Withey's play early on that he only tallied 8 measly minutes. Why was he upset with Withey? I mean, we won didn't we? And that game was never in doubt. Utterly bizarre. (sarcasm intended, for those that are ready to take me to task).

There are countless examples throughout the season of this team winning and still showing areas that need improvement. Is Self happy to get out of there with a win? You bet. Is he pleased with all aspects of his team's performance? Not a chance. So I'm not sure what you are expecting when you come on the message boards. If you visit them with any regularity you know it's not a bunch of fans without an opinion of what they just say sitting around in a circle jerk saying "good job! We played great tonight! After all...they got the win!" If all you care about is whether we win or lose, I wonder why you bother coming on the message boards to read the comments at all.

Timothy Rake 10 years, 7 months ago

In answer to your question... no more uneasy that I did watching Sherron blasting full speed out-of-control into the lane and frequently turning it over. Sherron had many a horrible game playing that kind of ball if you harken back to remember. Tyshawn has is weaknesses, but the kid is playing great in Big 12 play. Give him a break.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

This is pretty laughable. Sherron won us so many games with his performances in the clutch. The game at K-State that went into overtime seems an apt comparison. I'm not saying one or the other was a better player, that is a whole other debate, but you will come up short defending Tyshawn every time when you compare him to Sherron in late game situations.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

  1. Sluggish second half. I admit I was one to blow off the second half of the Okie St. game and chalking it up to human nature. But we can't let it become a pattern. And remember how many of us were complaining about the TRob charge call in the Misery game? How even though that one play didn't decide the game it irreversibly changed the flow of the game, and if it had been correctly called the outcome might very well have been different? I think KSU could say the same thing about the Tyshawn push-off 3-pointer, as much as some of the homers might not want to admit it. Coming out in the second half like that is really going to bite us if we don't correct it now.

I'm not all down in the dumps. There were some positives:

  1. Withey! The longer this run of his goes on, the more likely we are seeing the player he has actually progressed into and not an aberration. I was skeptical (remember Travis exploded for a week?), but I'm starting to believe that he has really turned the corner.

  2. Transition offense. For a couple years there we really seemed to be the worst at finishing on the break. Now it's almost an automatic deuce. 1-5 our starters are all doing a great job at this.

  3. Even though it didn't result in any points, I was happy our end of the half play actually was a play and not just "flat" = clear out and let Tyshawn drive. Did they also run something different Saturday against Okie St? If I'm not mistaken I think we did. Good to see.

  4. Hey, a road win is a road win. At the end of the day, I'm happy to keep pace with Misery, and hopefully we can use the next couple of games against some lesser foes to build momentum to the rematch in AFH. My hope is that in these next two games Coach Self finds it in him to rest his starters a little bit. If Tyshawn is tired and fading at the end of games, please play Naadir some against Tech to give him a rest.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

But we could use a couple more people capable of reading more than a one-line comment without getting a headache. Let me know if you run into any.

Honestly, just skip it if you don't feel like reading it, tool. Or is scrolling too hard for you as well?

yates33333 10 years, 7 months ago

You are absolutely correct. Skip what you write. I do.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

"You are absolutely correct. Skip what you write. I do."

Um, apparently not, since you know what I just wrote. Feel free to do so in the future tho.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 7 months ago


I am the second mayor of the water cooler and I say, "keep posting, man!!!!!"

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

mikendal - yeah, I just like to give some people a hard time.

BTW, who is the first mayor of the water cooler?

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

Three Jaybates would be alright with me. Maybe two Ralsters. Of course I'm old and have nothing better to do than read this stuff and joke a little. Very well written icthawkfan316 however I thought you were 315. When did you move up in the ranks.

jaybate 10 years, 7 months ago


Repeat after me...

Post thoughts about hoops.

Don't muzzle board rats.


Alohahawk 10 years, 7 months ago

The fatigue factor of playing extended minutes has got to be a major concern to HCBS. Playing 35 to 40 minutes in one or two games is one thing. Doing it in every game has to be exhausting over time. As you mentioned, let's hope TT and all the starters can get a little more bench time against Texas Tech and Texas A&M. They'll need all the rest they can get for the rematch versus Mizzery.

I think a lot of the blame for TT missing freethrows is due to his late game exhaustion.

Despite the late game letdown, a win is a win. Especially against KSU.

I must say that Frank Martin's demeanor has switched 180 degrees. To be honest, I rather enjoyed his new game face.

Rock the Chalk, Jayhawks. It's been a tremendous ride so far this season. Keep it up.

bradh 10 years, 7 months ago

I think Coach Self agrees with you on TT. Nadir has been getting some PT since the MU game. Looks to me like we're trying to find someone to spell TT a little and still have the ability to penetrate. Conner can penetrate, but doesn't do so normally.

AsadZ 10 years, 7 months ago

Aloha, I am worried about TAM game. They always play us tough. It will not be an easy game. I hope I am wrong though.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

Don't worry about the nattering nabobs, ict. Your posts are always well thought-out and interesting reads. And you hit the nail on the head with Tyshawn. I'm especially worried that our point guard is having terrible trouble at the free throw line in the clutch. That last one was particularly horrid, and it definitely looked like he was thinking about it. If that continues, teams will have a field day fouling him down the stretch.

As for the over-and-back, I think Knight got mixed up and was referring to the earlier one where Tyshawn had stepped on the line. But then in Knight's case, who can tell for sure? It's gotten so painful to listen to him that I would rather have Vitale do the game, and I wouldn't have thought that was possible. I'm honestly beginning to wonder if there's some senility involved.

It was bad enough when Knight said a few games ago that KU had great depth, but wouldn't you think that SOMEONE would have pointed out to him that it wasn't true before he made such an asinine comment again?!?!? I realize that he probably has done a minimal amount of research, but for God sake all he has to do is look at the fact that our bench is last in the conference in scoring to have a clue that maybe we don't have such great depth! Then he has to point out how every other shot is crucial and will be a turning point in the game. He actually said that KSU needed to work hard to get back into the game when they were down by 2 with over 10 minutes to go! And then there was my favorite: his brilliant analysis of a play (that he had had time to review!) where he showed how KSU had drawn Withey away from the basket. Never mind that Withey wasn't actually on the floor for that play! On the other hand, I suppose one could argue that sitting on the bench is definitely away from the basket.

Does anyone know the best place to write to complain about his complete and total ineptitude? I realize it probably won't do any good because the jacka** is a legend, but it's at least worth trying.

I know I went off on a tangent there, but he was driving me nuts for most of the game.

hathead 10 years, 7 months ago

Yep, Knight stinks because he doesn't echo homer sentiment. Based on some of your comments regarding the bench, I suspect you're one of those fans who set ceilings for Withey and Young, you know, that they only have so much potential... Knight, on the other hand, evidently sees it differently.

JHawk06 10 years, 7 months ago

? Withey has been a starter all season and Young doesn't do a whole lot. Sorry to burst your bubble but most people/pundits know that we don't have a bench.

Oh and Knight he is like Madden out there. Another example: End of game he was going over and over how their guard should have dumped it off instead of it getting swatted by Withey...everytime they showed the replay he was obviously taking 3 steps. nevermind that I guess

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

Wow. Did you actually read any of the specific criticisms I had, or did you just feel the need to be an obnoxious jerk?

jayhawkeratheart 10 years, 7 months ago

Bobby Knight is so shallow in his style of analyzing the play by play, that every time a team makes a shot, his comment is "That's the best offensive play of the night, and it's going to take more plays like that to get back into the game" I wonder how many of us that have never coached a game could not figure that out? It's like he just came up with the most brilliant statement of the night. He made that statement in the first 3 or 4 minutes of the game concerning K-State. Then he talked about Frank Martin and how he had pushed Spradling at a time when K-State had made some offensive error, I could only think that if Bobby had been on the bench, the chairs would have been flying, and he probably would have slugged one of his players.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

What's shallow is the stupid comments on here about one of the greatest basketball coaches of all time. I'm 75 years old and I bet I could dunk on you Jayhawkeratheart you twerp and that goes for all you great basketball annalists on here who have no respect for a true legend of the game. I bet you guys thought the Gettysburg Address was too long.

Kip_McSmithers 10 years, 7 months ago

Being a great former coach doesn't mean he is a great or even good announcer.

nb4ku 10 years, 7 months ago

+1-- One has nothing to do with the other.

My personal favorite was when a loose ball went out of bounds right in front of Bill Self and when he argued the call with the ref, Knight says "That was the correct call Bill, sit down".

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

No, actually what's shallow is your line of "reasoning." No one is disputing how great a coach he was. But I had specific criticisms about his inane--not to mention completely untrue--comments that he makes on a regular basis.

The fact alone that in two different games he has commented on how great KU's depth is shows how totally out of touch he is and how little of an effort he's putting into doing his job.

As far as having respect for him, I generally don't have a whole lot of respect for abusers of any kind, no matter how great a coach they are.

Mick Allen 10 years, 7 months ago

Coach Martin said Angel flopped. Bad play on Angel's part and not a bad call according to Martin.

loyal2thaphog 10 years, 7 months ago

Maybe I have my crimson and rose colored glasses on, but when the play was shown in slow-motion, the ksu guy guarding TT's momentum was already flowing away from TT. It looked he lost his balance and was trying to reach out and grab TT to steady himself. To me, it looked worse than it really was b/c of how fast the sequence of events took place. I really can't say that I disagree with the no-call.

bad_dog 10 years, 7 months ago

No kidding. I think he way oversold the flop. He slid 5-6 feet on the floor after landing. Tyshawn must have super human strength in that left forearm...

Redlandsjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

ict can't argue with any of your points but I am inclined to give TRob a pass. He was drawing an awful lot of attention from a very active interior defense but more importantly, anytime a possible lottery pick dives on the floor after a loose ball I'm not going to question his effort.

By the way I enjoy your posts and hope you will continue. Additionally I will take as many Jaybates that are out there. The quality of the posts and the level and depth of the analysis on this board are arguably the best in the country.

Rock Chalk, huge win.

KULA 10 years, 7 months ago

ect-- 1. I think you're being a little too hard on TRob. Not going after rebounds? He "only" got nine. Add to that, inspired tough physical play by K State's very big, athletic inside players, plus a probable fatigue factor of two games in three days to explain his relatively low point total and blocked shots. And I wouldn't want TRob playing tight defense 20 ft out either.

And since you mentioned "hitting the wall," and "tired and fading," does that mean you've changed your mind about high school coaches assurances to you that the players will not get tired?

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

I didn't say he wasn't going after them, just that he wasn't getting them, at least not as many as we're accustomed to seeing. Letting Jamar Samuels grab 7 offensive rebounds is partly on TRob, and it's ridiculous. If you don't think that's too many, then you're simply here to argue for the sake of arguing. As for his defense, I don't want it to be "tight", but at least run at him and put a hand up, even if you leave a few feet of space between.

As for players getting tired - no I haven't changed my mind on high school coaches telling me their players weren't tired. As it pertains to TRob ...every player is different. When I made that comparison it was largely as it pertains to Tyshawn. Tyshawn is a 4 year starter. Yes his minutes are up, but not as drastically as TRob's are. Tyshawn is playing about 6 more minutes per game then he did last year. TRob on the other hand is playing almost 17 more minutes per game than he did last year. So I'm more willing to accept fatigue and hitting a wall as factors in TRob's case than I am in Tyshawn's. Really it's pretty simple math.

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 7 months ago

No, it's not "simple math." There are diminishing returns the more minutes you get. T-Rob obviously would have had the conditioning to play a lot more minutes than he did last year -- it's just that the twins were standing in his way. Tyshawn was already playing big minutes last year, so adding any more to that burden -- even if it's only 6 more minutes -- is a very significant boost.

The good thing is that depth often doesn't matter as much in March Madness (unless you have injuries), because those TV timeouts are so long so the players get more of a breather.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

I agree that he would have been able to play more, but it is in fact a more dramatic jump for TRob who is now playing close to similar minutes per game (Tyshawn playing about 1 1/2 more minutes than TRob). Who is more equipped for that? The guy who is used to playing 30+ minutes on occasion throughout his career, or the guy who never has had to play that many minutes?

The illustration of minutes isn't meant to say that TRob would get equally as tired during an extra 6 minutes as Tyshawn would during an extra 6 minutes. You're looking at it wrong if that's how you interpret it.

KULA 10 years, 7 months ago

It's anything but simple--there are a huge number of variables and intangibles that don't show up in the numbers. Calling it simple math is what's simplistic.

There's a huge difference between HS and D1. Shorter season, shorter games, shorter practices. And yes, 16-17 yr olds do have more energy and resilience than 20-22 yr olds. Ever see Sherron's dunk in the McD game? Ever see him do that at KU?

And I'll just reiterate-- It's not a matter of conditioning. It's a matter of six months of intensive exertion taking it's toll on a body. How many races do you think a world class marathon runner be competitive in per year?

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 7 months ago

I do have to dispute one thing you said. Apparently only you and Bobby Knight considered that a "push-off three pointer" by Tyshawn. All other media reports I've read AP, ESPN, etc., including Frank Martin's quotes, say it was a flop by K-State trying to draw a charge.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago me it looked like Tyshawn extended his arm. Maybe it was a bit of acting, but I wouldn't have been upset with the refs had they called an offensive foul on TT.

There were other calls or no-calls that favored Kansas. How furious would we have been had someone, even incidentally, poked one of our players in the eye and no foul called? Obviously we are KU fans and will tend to see things less objectively, but the whining on the in-game discussion about the refs was ridiculous.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

You're right, trojan. What a tremendous season they're having. I allowed myself to go off on a rant about Knight in my last post because he's so damn irritating, but I shouldn't lose sight of the fact that this is such a fun team to watch and pull for.

I was glad to hear them saying that the Cousy award people can add players at the end of the month. I can't imagine they wouldn't add Tyshawn to the list at that point.

David Leathers 10 years, 7 months ago

And the debate begins.... Bob Knight or Dickie V?

JHawk06 10 years, 7 months ago

Can they both just ride off into the sunset of bad commentary together?

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

Maybe they should. You sound like you were born in the house of stupid and you stayed there.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

LOL. Maybe they could just irritate each other and save us all (or at least most of us -- sere bobbysfissure) a whole lot of frustration.

Jonathan Allison 10 years, 7 months ago

I hope that they don't add Tyshawn to the list.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

No you are irritating actorman, not Bobby Knight. How charitable of you "I shouldn't lose sight of the fact that this is such a fun team to watch and pull for?" Yes, sometimes you have t overlook the senile old folks and just enjoy yourself. You were glad about the Cousy people huh. Thanks for sharing.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

I find it quite amusing how when people attack me for my Knight comments, none of them actually comment on any if the numerous specific criticisms I had. Never let facts get in the way of a chance to rip someone.

Joseph Kuebel 10 years, 7 months ago

I agree that the bitter role is okay when it comes up with a valid point, or some sort of evidence to form an intelligent response. You point out a fact, and then get ridiculed because the person that you pointed the fact out about is liked... Looks pretty goofy to me. Sad, bitter responses aren't necessary. Be happy- that's no way to live!

KULA 10 years, 7 months ago

‘I’m as tired as I have ever been,’

Did you hear that Bill? (And any of you posters who will never be convinced that 18-22 yr olds can get tired in a game). That's probably got a lot to do with Tyshawn's late game miscues.

And that was the day before a game. After a game that Bill played him 37 min. Bill better start getting Naadir some minutes and Tyshawn under 35 minutes per game and live with a few turnovers or he'll end up with another debacle like UNI, where his leg-weary star guard couldn't throw it in the ocean.

It's not a matter of conditioning. It's a matter of six months of intensive exertion taking it's toll on a body. How many races do you think a world class marathon runner be competitive in per year?

Mel Clare 10 years, 7 months ago

Have to remember also that the kids are playing a Sat/Mon schedule a few more times this year than before. That quick turn around has alot to do with the fatigue factor this late in the year. Especially when you travel like the Mizzou/Baylor/Okie St/KState run they just had.............alot of bus time and such.

Steven Mathew 10 years, 7 months ago

KU has been playing 4 Monday games a year for the last few years

KULA 10 years, 7 months ago

"probably not tired." Even though he said the day before that he was as tired as he has ever been? And he was a good free throw shooter the first half of the season. About 80%.

KansasComet 10 years, 7 months ago

Tyshawn, Thomas, Elijah, and Jeff need rest and they need it bad. Missed free throws at the end of games. Tired legs, nothing else. Several dunk attempts blocked by KSU in the second half, tired legs, nothing else. Tharpe makes an excellent pass in the lane to Robinson for a dunk, which gets blocked, and we never see the kid the rest of the game? I for one, believe this kid can flat out play and can shoot the ball. A good player, when he makes up mistake on the court such as a turnover, usually makes up for it with two good plays in return. This team is very good, and has a chance to be special.

Sometimes the real great coaches, do not just look at what they want, but rather what the team needs. This team has enough fresh horses on the bench to get these guys some rest. Maybe a couple of 25-30 minute games for the majority of the starters would be in order?

Mick Allen 10 years, 7 months ago

Are you saying that Self is not "a real great coach"? Do you actually think Self does not know "what the team needs". Obviously when HCBS feels that Nadir can advance the ball over half court and retain possession he will play more. Perhaps you have noticed we are trying to win our 8th straight conference crown. To do that we need our best players on the court for as many minutes as possible. HCBS has done a coach of the year job with this group. Please don't engage in the fiction that you can see what the team needs and HCBS doesn't. Our "fresh horses" have scored 14 points in the last 3 games.

KansasComet 10 years, 7 months ago

Fresh horses can steal a few minutes for our starters to rest before television timeouts. Fresh horses can play good defense and score the ball, when a coach believes in them and they are not out there walking on eggshells. I love having Coach Self as coach of the Jayhawks, he was my first choice when the position became available. I have commented as have most posters on this site that the players are tired and I believe there are players available to get them some rest. Saturday/Monday games are rough, but the NCAA Tournament is pretty much the same format. It appears that you are scanning through post and trying to find something to complain about. I never said he wasn't a great coach, you just took it that way. 1 Elite 8, 1 National Championship, and 7 straight Big XII titles. I am a Bill Self fan. When a player says how tired he is the day before the game? He is tired!!

agraves 10 years, 7 months ago

I'm sure they are all tired. In 10 days they have played at Mizzou, at Baylor, home against OSU, and now at KSU. Bill Self said last week that today they could take a breath. That's a tough schedule and now with Tech coming to town Saturday my guess is that it just might be an easier week for the team getting some well deserved rest!

Karen Holmes 10 years, 7 months ago

This was the first game all season where I have seen Coach Manning up on the sidelines and yelling out at the players along with HCBS. He gets so much praise from all the announcers doing our games. A big Thank You for all your efforts. We are so fortunate to have him. Rock Chalk Great Win.

ku_tailg8 10 years, 7 months ago

We just won a tough road game. We are still far away from a conference title. I hope that Mizzou game doesn't come back and bite us in the behind. The pressure will be solely on KU for that game and MU will have nothing to lose. If we lose that game, and it cost us the conference, then that will be the worst case scenario. Even though we have owned them, I would hate to think they go off to the SEC with a victory at Allen Fieldhouse. I love how hard these guys are playing but mark my words, the #2 and #3 man will be the downfall of this team. We need production on offense from Elijah, Conner and Travis. They play great D and deserve to be out there for that but they bring nothing to the offensive end. Just being a realist.

eastcoasthawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Yes we need more offensive production from more than 3 guys but just two weeks ago we needed more offensive production from more then just TRob and TT. Withey's explosion as a force in the conference is really making the difference. On a night when TRob had some serious bangers up against him he was backing down on the offensive side and dishing the ball a lot. As for Releford, I hope you watched the halftime analysis where Releford was called out for the D he put on his man. He does everything the coaching staff asks of him.

Mel Clare 10 years, 7 months ago

I think that Withey will go totally off on Mizzou when they come to Lawrence..............remember he was embarrassed at Columbia and started his good playing after that game.................i think Mizzou will see a totally different player with a chip on his shoulder and his teamates should remind him of that to piss him off!

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

This is my opinion - can I get in trouble for that? (My guess is Yes!)

If the Cousy award is based on how important a player is to his team, then by all means, throw Tyshawn's name in the hat.

If it's based on who is the best point guard in the country - he's out.

I just can NOT be the only KU fan who is scared to death when the ball is in his hands in crucial situations. True - he has the athletic ability to make incredible plays at any given time. He also has the ability to throw the ball in the stands, throw up air balls or miss game winning / clinching free throws.

I know that he's important to our team. I know that he makes enough good plays to keep us in any game.

I just don't know from one minute to the next if he's going to make a WOW play or a WTF play.

Jeffery Barrett 10 years, 7 months ago

Finally, a serious, realistic view of Taylor.......

Can't keep having last minute turnovers and missed free throws.

eastcoasthawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Funny, that last sentence is essentially what Coach Self said about him several weeks ago.

It seems that when the game gets tight at the end and everything speeds up it increases his tendency to make a bad mistake. Not sure if his brain doesn't think clearly at that speed or if his body is ahead of the brain. He obviously gets tight thinking about game ending free throws. Coach needs to work with him on the closing out of a game. I was hoping to have Withey on the line at the end but TRob and Connor closed it out for us.

Doug Merrill 10 years, 7 months ago

You guys are spoiled. Tyshawn is the best in college right now, even with his miscues. Put his stats up against anyone in the past month and you'll see it. If not, let me know who you would vote for. I agree that he is the MVP of this team, check. I agree that he has won ballgames for us, check. I agree that he has distributed the ball well and helped the big men do well, check. I agree that he has done this with zero scoring help in the backcourt, check.

He is my fav for the award.

Jeffery Barrett 10 years, 7 months ago

Stats don't tell the whole story........ That doesn't just apply to Taylor. It applies in all areas of sports.

Brak 10 years, 7 months ago

I don't care care how inconsistent he has been your comment just shows that you watch absolutely no basketball outside of KU. Even with all of his turnovers he is a top 20 PG in the nation and I challenge you to name 20 other PGs that you would trust with the ball in their hands.

Also don't forget if it wasn't for Tyshawn's 25 points we wouldn't even be in the game for him to screw it up at the end. Even with his mistakes last night he still only had 3 TO's and nobody else on the team can drive and create their own shot like Tyshawn.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Look at my very first sentence. It's my opinion.

And your comment shows that you have absolutely no tolerance for common sense or an opinion that differs from your own.

Tyshawn Taylor is valuable to this team and at the same time he can be a detriment to it.

Deal with it.

I watch plenty of other teams and there are plenty of other point guards that are more CONSISTENT.

It's not just the things that he does or does not do on the court. He's supposed to be the senior leader of this team and he has demonstrated that he can be very immature and undisciplined all during his career.

If you trust Tyshawn with the ball in his hands (especially at the end of a game) please review the Missouri game.

Again, it's my opinion. If you want to elect him Mayor of Lawrence, put him on that ballot too. I don't care. I just don't say he's automatically great and can do no wrong because he happens to wear a Kansas uniform.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

I'm with you, nuleaf.

It would be nice if Self had enough faith in EJ to make him the point guard and Tyshawn the 2. I think that would be a better fit for Tyshawn, but EJ doesn't seem up to the task at this point.

As much as the turnovers are scary, the terrible free throw shooting is even worse. It can't inspire a lot of confidence to have the point guard be one of the worst free throw shooters on the team.

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 7 months ago

He's a very good free throw shooter, always has been. He's just in a bit of a slump over the last few games.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

hawk_of_ages - I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, and I appreciate your right to like and defend Tyshawn, but honestly, he's not a very good free throw shooter. And he's getting worse.

His free throw shooting by year:

Freshman - 72.4% Sophomore - 71.6% Junior 71.9% Senior 65.8%

My point is that in the last few minutes of the game, especially in a close game, your point guard is the guy that you should want to have the ball in his hands. Not the guy you worry about throwing the ball away or shooting the ball with 25 seconds left on the shot clock, or stepping up and missing clutch free throws.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, as the commentators last night were saying that K-State should be fouling Taylor during the last couple minutes of the game.

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 7 months ago

If those numbers are accurate, then I eat my words. That really surprises me, because I never noticed any issue with his free throw shooting before Mizzou, and Self has always had confidence in putting him on the line.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

hawk_of_ages - those stats came from - I would assume they're accurate. Anyway - it's not about making anybody eat words, we're all just here to rejoice, vent, cuss and discuss.

I was surprised to see those numbers too! I'd feel a lot better if they were reversed.

Brak 10 years, 7 months ago

Oh so since I don't agree with you I have no common sense, good rebuttal. Still waiting for that list of 20 other point guards you think are better than Tyshawn.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

And since I don't agree with you, I watch absolutely no other basketball outside of KU.


Brak 10 years, 7 months ago

I was just making an assumption based on your post that is all. I don't disagree with what you are saying, just that I think he's a top 20 pg and deserves a spot on the Cousy list. You said he is not so I was curious to know what 20 other pg's in the nation you think are better than him.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Brak - Here's my perspective;

If you like Tyshawn and think he's a top 5, or 10 or whatever point guard - that's your prerogative.

For me, pretty much whenever he has the ball in his hands I wonder " is it going to be a great play or a knucklehead one? " There's about a 50/50 chance. To me that doesn't constitute a great PG.

Granted, he is more athletically gifted than a lot of people out there. He doesn't always make smart decisions and that is the reason that whoever comes up with the Cousy candidates did not put him on there and that's why I don't feel he should be there.

On any given night - he COULD be the best PG in the country. A lot of nights he's not. I hope he makes the list - I hope he wins!! That would mean he starts making great decisions along with his great plays.

I just think about some of the PG's we've had in the past - Collins, Chalmers, Vaughn, Jordan, Robinson - I always felt confident when the game was winding down and the ball was in their hands.

That's all it is for me - a matter of confidence. Sorry if it sounded like I was bashing him, I just didn't think he was a consistently great PG. I hope he proves me wrong from here on out.

Kirk 10 years, 7 months ago

Great all around guard, but no, he's not a PG. And he'll screw KU in the tournament in the last minute of some game against a scrappy smart team with less talent. Unless we're lucky.

Glad to see him pop his jersey and get all up in fans' faces. That's Kansas basketball all the way.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Lol - glad to see someone else enjoys a little sarcasm.

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 7 months ago

I don't much care for that either, but as taunting goes, it sounds pretty mild. And it's hardly unprecedented behavior for a KU player in an emotional, physical rivalry game. I still remember Ryan Robertson, of all people, spitting on the Tiger at midcourt after winning his final game in Columbia.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

I think he was just trying to get the taste of Missouri out of his mouth....

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 7 months ago

According to the article on the front page, the K-Staters at courtside had been giving him crap all through the game, and when it was finally over I'd guess he just decided to thumb his nose at them a little. Can't say I blame him for that (even if it isn't what you consider the Kansas way). An article in CJOnline (or whatever it is from Topeka) said the crowd's response to his popping his jersey was a lot of vicious name calling and "hand gestures." That isn't a group that would understand a classy move.

Ryan Michael 10 years, 7 months ago

Not only do I agree with your assessment, but I want to add another reason for TT not being a Cousy finalist...

The award is supposed to be about teamwork and leadership every bit as much as scoring and assists.

TT has been suspended every single season he's been here. When he makes a stupid turnover, you still see him barking at his teamates as if it was their fault because he went running wildly into 3 bigs.

Granted TT has been playing great (minus the final minutes of a few games), but you add all of this up and I don't see a Cousy finalist. TT may have finally grown up a bit, but his history (even starting this season suspended) is still there. That is not something a Cousy finalist would have done (in my opinion).

Vernon Riggs 10 years, 7 months ago

I was more afraid of what my Point Guard would say to me after screwing up on the court than what my Head Coach would say. Leadership is sometimes a good kick in the behind, a cold stare or an earful of 'barking'. He is a Cousy finalist in my book.

Ryan Michael 10 years, 7 months ago

There is a huge difference between motivating your teamates, and blaming them for a mistake you just made.

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 7 months ago

Of course, we have no real way of knowing why he's barking at them. Maybe they were out of position, and if they had been where they were supposed to be it wouldn't have beeen a turnover. It's too easy to judge from the stands or from in front of the TV.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

Good point, oldalum. I think there are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Tyshawn. I don't necessarily think that one of them is being a bad teammate.

Joe Baker 10 years, 7 months ago

I agree TT has been inconsistent. However, I've been one of his biggest critics and apart from his "WTF" plays, I'd have him on the court any day of the week just for his ability and potential alone. He's slowly won my respect even with his WTF moments. I've learned to accept the fact that he's just going to cough 1-3 times per game.

I would say that he's ONE of the top pgs in the nation, but far from the top. However, have you seen some of the selections? I'd say that TT has a fighting chance to be one of the top 5 pgs in the list.

TT for the Cousy award, why not? Go for it TT, bring it home.

Redlandsjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

You gotta admit he keeps it exciting. You're right you really don't know what's coming next.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Lol - "exciting". I'll give you that much!!

He reminds me of Charlie Sheen's character in Major League.

Unbelievably talented. Wild. A bit of an attitude.

You never knew if he would throw a 100mph strike, hit the batter in the head or throw the ball 20 rows up in the stands.


tis4tim 10 years, 7 months ago

At what point do we consider the possibility that Withey might test the NBA waters after this season? His last three performances have been stellar and, if he maintains his motor through the remainder of the season there is a chance his stock will never get any higher than it is right now. Until this point, we've all just kind of assumed he was staying another year, but there have been a lot of scouts at the games taking a look at Robinson (and, I'm sure, Taylor) who have probably come away salivating at Withey's potential as well. Nimble 7-footers, who can run the floor, block shots and hit 85% of their free throws don't just grow on trees.

JHawk74 10 years, 7 months ago

Withey is developing into a great college center. But not sure he is strong enough at this point to compete with NBA centers. One more year in college to increase skills and mass would be great for him. Cole Alridge is a good example he was a good Kansas center but not getting any playing time in the NBA.

Joel Hood 10 years, 7 months ago

But, Cole left when his draft card was at its peak. I do not think his draft status would have gone up if he had played one more year. It was the right time for him to jump.

tis4tim 10 years, 7 months ago

I would agree with you to some extent, though Shawn Bradley, Manute Bol, George Muirisan (sp?), and a few others with little more than height working for them got a shot. Withey has that plus some highly desirable skills.

As for Cole Aldridge, there is a growing choir of "play him" coming from the OKC and national sports media. Right now, they're relying on Nazr Mohammed, who is 973 years old and really contributing very little. The consensus seems to be put Cole out there even for 15 minutes and let him clean the glass and reject some shots.

All in all, I, like you, think Jeff needs a few more coats of polish and time to prove the past three games are the rule and not the exception. However, I figured it's time to raise the spectre of his possibly leaving. My guess is he has NBA aspirations and you've got to strike while the iron is hot.

Joel Hood 10 years, 7 months ago

Withey has not been on the NBA radar long enough. He needs another year to prove he can add value to an NBA roster.

Joe Baker 10 years, 7 months ago

I knew Withey would develop with time. He took a lot of heat from many on this board. Most didn't think he would be effective. The guy is one of the most athletic bigs in the nation. He reminds me of a Chris Bosh minus the outside game which he could develop like TRob and the Twins.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

Aldridge got worse instead of better. He just fooled the stupid NBA scouts. Hope he bought his folks a nice house in Minnesota.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

Why would you be discussing Lamarcus Aldridge on a KU board? Or are you just too stupid to know how to spell a KU player's name?

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

Jaybate brought up this possibility not too long ago as well, actually before his recent string of success had started. At the time I didn't consider it much, but with each positive performance he increases the likelihood that he could be taken in the first round. It's at that point that he should start considering it. We won't know probably until the end of the season how likely it is, when we find out who else is coming out early, what the euro influence will be on the draft, etc.

I agree he is an appealing choice for NBA GMs. The possibility of an early departure could be a contributing factor in why Self is continuing to recruit bigs despite being out of scholarships and having seemingly enough bodies coming in to fill the post positions.

Benjamin Clay Jones 10 years, 7 months ago

That's all we need, is Tyshawn taunting opposing crowds after a game in which he picked up his pivot foot & then clanked free throws during crunch time.

Show some class, Tyshawn. KU is better than that behavior. Act like it.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

But, he's only been on the winning team 7 out of 8 games vs K state. I think he might even be better than RussRob. What do you think Ralster?

RockChalk26 10 years, 7 months ago

Respectfully disagree with you Speakeasy. You think K-State fans would have showed class if they had one the game? I think not. TT played in the game, he was the main reason we won the game, he is a senior (last time in AFH West) so yeah, he can show a little emotion at the end of the game.

FoCoCoHawk 10 years, 7 months ago

I think for his last game in Manhattan EVER, Tyshawn was a model of restraint. Put it behind you and keep getting better TT.

Joel Hood 10 years, 7 months ago

Pulling out the name on your jersey after a win is the classy way to celebrate.

packywacky88 10 years, 7 months ago

I got no problem with TT and him letting KSU know who's the boss in Kansas. I'm sure they were all over him before and during the game.

Choctaw 10 years, 7 months ago

I think that Frank Martin has proved himself to be a very classy coach. He looks like a crazy man on the sidelines but he has never ever said unkind things about the other teams or coaches. He takes 100% responsibility for what happens and says if the kids don't perform it's because the coaches didn't prepare them right. HCBS thinks the world of Coach Martin and that is good enough for me. It is great to have that in Manhattan again and while I hate losing to KSU anywhere and anytime it is sure great to have some rivalry back like the old days. We don't have to worry about KSU running away and hiding in another conference like some of our so called rivals.

Joe Baker 10 years, 7 months ago

I have much respect for Martin's competitiveness and class. The guy represents the color purple really well.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

What's classy about acting crazy? Coach Martin is a coward. Like all cowards he yells and screams about everybody else. It's OK to show emotion (I tell my wife) but to constantly go over the top like Martin with his players and then come on the radio and TV and act normal is pathetic. I know I wouldn't play for the lunatic. All the press has fallen for this Jekyll and Hyde act but I find him totally repulsive and to me his street ball style of basketball is boring.

SDSurferFan 10 years, 7 months ago

  • easily my favorite game of the year.  This rivalry matters to these players.
  • Withey block, mid-court dribble, pass to Ty, alleyoop slam----my 'Withey Has officially arrived' moment.
  • love Knight, but Ku is not '9 deep.'  Stop saying it.
  • Releford. Loved his play....limit his TO/great D/energy/productive O.
  • Robinson. Wouldnt trade him for any other player.....but he instigates.  
  • Espn should add another station. ESPNLT. Lin. Tebow.  
  • The best and worst of TT.....still best PG in NCAA.
  • tweet from Andy Glockner:  Kansas also has to be one of the leaders for "Team You Think Could Make Final Four Except You Expect Them to Lose in Rd of 32," right?
  • tweet from Matt Orlander:  Officially driving the Withey Wagon. Kansas is so Kansas when it has Reliable White Center.

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 7 months ago

A few musings;

What exactly happened with TRob on that charge call (his 4th foul) and the KSU technical? TRob's initial reaction led me to believe he may have thought the technical was going to be on him.

“I just (stink) at free throws right now,” Taylor said. “I don’t know what it is. I’ve got to get back in the lab and work on them.”

Looking at FT improvement as a lab exercise could be the problem. There is a golf improvement book called "Instinct Putting". The premise is to allow your instincts to control your putting. In other words just react to the task at hand, do what comes naturally, don't think about. Taylor would be well served to adopt this approach to his free throw wows. His trey shooting which is pure reaction should be proof enough.

Alohahawk 10 years, 7 months ago

The technical foul was called, I assume, because Gipson (sp) reached up and grabbed/pushed at TRob's legs while below him on the court. Or perhaps because of the jawing Gipson did after he stood up, when TRob smiled and raised his arms, putting his hands behind his head and backing away.

Perhaps Gipson was upset that TRob was straddled above him while he lay on the floor. But what else could TRob do. He was off balance and almost stepped on the prone Gipson. To me, it appeared that Gipson reached up and tried to grab TRob in the crouch.

Whatever, I think Gipson's jawing contributed to the technical more than anything. It was almost like Gipson was attempting to get TRob tossed. TRob was too smart to accommodate him. Round one to TRob.

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 7 months ago

I have heard players says it's muscle memory--shoot exactly the same way every time once you get it down. I used to think of TT as a good free throw shooter, so I have no idea what's happened. As for the comment about the lab, I think it was just an expression, like "back to the drawing board."

Kirk 10 years, 7 months ago

This. But nobody gets it...yet. They will come tourney time.

Cantkeepagooddudedown 10 years, 7 months ago

+1.... tournament time... you need guards to finish the game.... they have to 1) protect the ball.... 2) run the clock... and 3) make free throws

I don't understand the vast majority of fans on this website. I am convinced the common popular opinion of people on here is very different the actual population.

Could it be that many of the people's opinions on here are so ridiculed in public that this is where they come?

Prediction: some idiot will say i'm calling the kettle black... or whatever the retarded saying is.

Nope... MOST people I see... whether they are friends or not... they agree with me. Their sick of Tyshawn's excuses. Earlier in the year, Tyshawn says most of his misses are early w the game not close and he doesn't take his time and focus. Now it's "i don't know what it is".

The man is gifted. But he is an idiot. That's the memory he'll leave here in a lot of Jayhawk fans' minds.

Cantkeepagooddudedown 10 years, 7 months ago

haha... that's all you got, moron? Correcting grammar makes you the biggest idiot of all.

"They're" THERE... is that better professor dkweed?

Janet Olin 10 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, I get his desire to wave the jersey after all the taunting he took, but he should wait until he drains his clutch, last-minute free throws to show off. He's going to have the ball in his hands most of the time at the end of a game and has to hit those. There will be lots of close games coming up...

FLJHK 10 years, 7 months ago

Amatuer observations:

  1. Ugly game. Terrible offensive execution by both teams. But bottom line: a win in Manhattan = a thing of beauty.

  2. Tremendous defensive effort and intensity by both teams.

  3. I have concerns about TRob. He seems very worn down. He lacks the strength and explosiveness from earlier in the season. To me, (probably wrong) he even looked a bit thinner last night. Also, he's making more mental errors of late. I'm not being critial; he remains a beast and is one of my all-time favorite Jayhawks, but I don't like the current direction. I don't think anyone blocks his dunk attempts early in the season; now it's happening with some regularity.

  4. TT is a true warrior. But I don't like recent over-reliance on him at the offensive end. Yes, he's been our best player in conference play, but the team has started to look too much like '09 with Sherron. I don't like that formula. Need to get more ball distribution and offensive involvement from the likes of EJ and Travis.

  5. Actorman: you are right about Knight. It's almost sad.

kellerman411 10 years, 7 months ago

I completely agree, especially about T-Rob. Not only are his dunks being blocked but, when he and that itty bitty KSU guard were on the ground fighting over that ball, T-Rob got it ripped out of his hands easily. And yes, Robinson is looking thinner, at least I thought so. It's been a long hard season for him and it's beginning to show.

The fans aren't going to like it but, Bill has no choice but to take his foot out of it for the next couple games. I'm hoping Tyshawn and Robinson play about 25 minutes a piece, that can only happen if Wesley, Young and Teahan can put in some quality minutes. The kids are worked and they have got to be 100% for the MU game. If anyone can get us through it, it's Bill.

Joe Baker 10 years, 7 months ago

Interesting points all. However, Wesley is a work in progress. Young is inconsistent. Teahan needs to step up big time in the upcoming games.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

At least Wesley has mastered the foul and Kevin has a winning smile. Teahan can at least make foul shots.

bad_dog 10 years, 7 months ago

I believe the official had already called it a jump ball when T-Rob let go. In addition, as I recall he was slightly injured on the play as he got up slowly after diving for the ball

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 7 months ago

I find it strange that everyone's so "concerned" about T-Rob only 10 days after his monster performance vs. Mizzou.

For what it's worth, I didn't see the whole game but the only blocked dunk I saw came when he was clearly getting his arm pulled down from below by a second defender -- no call, of course. Too bad -- that was a great dish from Tharpe.

bad_dog 10 years, 7 months ago

I generally like Bobby Knight, but many of the observations made by other commenters are spot on and trust me, they haven't mentioned all of them. Refering to Knight as a "legend" is accurate, however he's legendary for coaching-not broadcasting.

Calling other Hawk fans idiots doesn't do anything to support your position and just serves to make you look petty and thin skinned.

Yeah, I know. I'm an idiot too...

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

Another well-reasoned commentary, bobbysfissure. Perhaps you should apply for Knight's possition.

And feel free to address any of my specific comments at any time.

kellerman411 10 years, 7 months ago

Anybody every wonder what Bill Self would be doing if he wasn't a basketball coach? Bill is 6' 4", handsome and sports a booming voice. I think his managerial skills, particularly his ability to recognize vulnerability in himself and his opponents, would have served him very well in corporate america. I'm certainly satisfied with his career choice here at KU.

REHawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Folks, these hardfought Saturday/Monday contests are taking a heavy toll on our 34-38 minute players. Self is not gifted with the luxury of substitution late in games. Gotta hope that starters can get some relief this week, cool their blazing wheels. The Tharpe factor might prove to be the biggest thorn in the heel of this squad's progress. Bill Self gambled on staying true to his sound coaching philosophy and psychological makeup by pulling his freshman guard from games when he didn't cut the mustard in November/December contests. Our pre-conference schedule was so tough this year that all too often the team could not find ways to win with Tharpe's play. On a few occasions, esp. when TT or EJ were on a tear for major early season screwups, Self gave Tharpe a shot, but usually yanked him quickly if he followed in the steps of the starter for whom he was subbing. At this stage, Tharpe appears to have learned fairly well from his harsh lessons...but he has little gametime experience to fall back on in crucial moments when the flow of a slim lead might be on the line. If Tharpe stays for his sophomore season, his frosh learning experiences will most probably pay off bigtime for the future Jayhawks. But for the remainder of this season, esp. in upcoming games vs. Mizzou and the Longhorns (in Austin), he cannot yet be depended upon unless we should surge well beyond the possibility of an opponent's late comeback. Gotta hope that Gillispie doesn't roar into Allen Fieldhouse Saturday to dismantle our hopes for a continuing string of wins prior to the return matchup with the Tigers on the 25th. Maybe Tharpe can hit the court for 10-15 minutes of much needed experience this week, providing some rest for Tyshawn and Elijah.

BainDread 10 years, 7 months ago

Ummm....I believe we already played in Austin this year. The Texas game is in the Phog. Senior Night?

KGphoto 10 years, 7 months ago

I don't know why I let this irritate me so much, but all the nationally listed team records have Kansas with a home loss. Obviously they have not lost in AFH this year. The Davidson loss was in the Sprint Center in KC. I just want to slap somebody!

FarSideHawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Thaarpe seemed disinterested sitting on the bench. I hope it was just a fleeting moment that I noticed and not a sign of his future with the team. I really like him and I think he will be the perfect point guard for the next few years with the talent around him.

rwhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, I always wonder about the freshmen that have legitimate hopes of playing and then get yanked from games seconds into them. I've wondered if we'll see him next year or not...I hope we see him.

REHawk 10 years, 7 months ago

I have mixed feelings about Tyshawn's possibly being added to the Cousy Award list. I have no doubts whatsoever that, since the Christmas break, he has played well enough to be included among the top 10 point guards in the country. But his complete season of work is still ragged. As a senior team leader, he started the season with a two-game suspension, produced 11 turnovers in a huge nationally televised contest vs. Duke, and often seemed to lose focus in key situations. Since the start of league play his concentration has improved magnificently, he has been on a scoring tear, has patched up his assist to turnover ratio, scores superbly from beyond the arc, and has become a solid leader and team player. Major letdowns, for the most part, can be traced to his near exhaustion at ends of games. From a situation where, in December, he had almost dropped completely off the NBA projected draft boards, now he has moved into a solid Round 2 selection, and might ascend to the first round, depending on how he finishes the season. I would much rather see him play with a chip on his shoulder, striving to prove his worth to the world of basketball than to see him become a late provisional addition to the Cousy list, after which he might relax the intensity of his current focus. TT is a rare talent, among the best to commit four years of play to Kansas hoops. However, he still has a way to go to establish his dominance as one of the nation's 2 or 3 best and most dependable point guards. If he can receive enough rest to keep himself energized and focused, his team is in for a splendid run down the final stretch.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 7 months ago

The good that Tyshawn brings to the table is finally offsetting the bad that sometimes follows him around. Withey and TRob are the focal points of the offense, but without Tyshawn we would be incredibly stagnant. He steps up when KU needs him. Sometimes he tries to do too much, but he is clearly our best guard. Self asks a lot of him, and as HCBS alluded to, TT is one of the best guards in the country right now. I'm proud of how Tyshawn has been silencing the critics lately. Keep it up TT!

As a side note, did anyone hear Bob Knight say last night that KU is has a deep 9 man rotation that can play with anyone in the country? Don't get me wrong, I'm as much of a KU homer as anyone, but let's be realistic...we've got 5 great starters and a couple very shaky (at best) bench players. KU is more like 6 or 7 deep this year. I respect Knight, but I really think he's a terrible announcer sometimes.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

I commented above about Knight. That was the second game where he's made a comment like that. And that was just the tip of the iceberg for all the stupid and/or cliched comments he made. It's time for him to get out of the broadcasting business.

jaybate 10 years, 7 months ago

"When Young Men Decide to Save Us from Ourselves, Old Men Need to Support Them, or Stand Aside"

To all those that say, "The boys are too tired, take the foot off the gas pedal, Coach Self, now hear this: Shaka Smart's guys could go 35-40 minutes every game.

UCLA players were conditioned to go 35-40 minutes every game before their run of rings and during their run of rings.

It can be done.

It has to be done.

The difficult comes easy.

The impossible takes a little longer.

If the team has to rest, then it can rest once a share of the conference title is iced, but not before. Otherwise, everything they have struggled so heroically for is lost. And last nights struggle was the basketball equivalent of Edson's Ridge on The Canal of this pre-conderence and conference season.

This team CAN win this title.

Winning a ring is out in the mist of getting on a roll.

Until a share of the title is iced, they have to rest on their knees during games. They have to sand bag for extended stretches. They have to hang on without hope of resupply, or replacements. Tyshawn has to be sent to the corner for 5-10 second rests, while EJ delays out front. Thomas has to continue carrying 3-4 defenders on his back. Jeff has to carry on despite the assault and battery. Travis has to continue the incomparable fete of locking down with a blown tread. Elijah has to shake off the collapse of his offensive game and take away the offensive oxygen from everyone opponent around him. He has to help everyone everywhere on the floor as he has been doing, while Tyshawn is taking over the game offensively between blows in the corner.

Self and the team can take a powder on the conference tournament, if depleted energy reserves require it. From here on out it is not about any code but one. Keep your buddies alive and win the necessary battles.

But...the title is necessary. They have to leave everything on the floor to get this title. Without it, they will not have left their mark.

The future is now for this team.

Rest during conference tournament week, or after the season.

But get this title.

People have been playing seriously injured all season.

Thomas has been playing with both elbows hyper extended and in sleeves. His knee has never fully recovered from the injury before the two DII exhibition games.

Tyshawn has been playing on a blown knee and now he has a dislocated finger.

Travis has the ankle of a 50 year old now.

Elijah's rotator cuff seems barely able to fake working from three, and he seems hopelessly confused at times.

Jeff Withey's had his teeth driven through his lip, his nose broken maybe twice, and has one thigh that barely functions.

God only knows what may be wrong with the guys on the bench.

This is this team's Guadalcanal.

Mike Barnhart 10 years, 7 months ago

Summary: This is a good team. Win now rest later.

jaybate 10 years, 7 months ago

When everyone was saying before the season that KU's run of titles was done, this team believed; this team said the island can be taken without reserves, without hope of resupply. This team has been abandoned by the media and the fans so many times that it is used to it now. Hell, if Self told the truth, he would admit that he threw in the sponge a few times. But this team would not let him off the hook. They could not do it his way, because his way requires more talent than he has. This team decided to do it the Marine Corp way--to get it done anyway they could--to do whatever it took.

This is already the most heroic KU team I have ever seen.

And some talk about rolling over, playing lesser players, resting? About playing guys that everyone knows are not yet ready for big minutes in the meat grinder? About giving up a title in our grasp to save a little gas for a tournament that we might not even get on a roll for?

Screw that!

When these guys have fought through everything and gutted it out playing wounded and injured?

Risk not winning a title?

Not on your life!

Not on my life!

Not on their lives!

Not on Self's life!

Not on Allen's life!

Not on Naismith's life!

Everything happens now!

Not every outfit got to walk into Tokyo on VJ day.

A lot of them were left in the Solomons, New Guinea, and the Marianas. The lucky were shipped home, often missing parts. Many still lay under small white crosses.

It is the nature of campaigns. Some times those that strike the decisive blows, that win the decisive battles do not finally get to experience total victory.

Some do.

But to fail to turn the tide, when it can be turned is to doom those that follow you to either to have to pay for the same real estate twice, or to fail entirely.

This team is fighting for its Legacy--and for The Legacy!

Outs in the NCAA tournament, whether in the Final Four, or sooner, are not something to hang up in the Booth Hall of Fame, or in the rafters.

Conference titles are.

NCAA titles are.

If this team wins a conference title, it will have given its all to keep The Legacy progressing, to make this team a crucial team at a crucial turning point in the modern history of KU basketball. It will go down as the team that kept KU excellent even in the face of Self's own bad luck recruiting into the winds of Scalpinggate, Lewgate, Mangiongate, and Realignmentgate.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

I've got to hand it to you Jaybate your posts are really great. I really appreciate your insights and they are beautifully written.

jaybate 10 years, 7 months ago


Am I going to have to send you to sick bay to get a navy surgeon to remove my boon docker from your latrine interface?

Is the real virtual Sergeant jaybate going to have to ask the Shore Patrol to shoot serial aliasing pretender sgtjb123 on sight for impersonating a non-commissioned officer of this man's basketball corp?

Do you need to clean a cell in a brig with a tooth brush to discover your manners?

Would you like a thimble to store that pea sized brain of yours in, when you are not using it, which appears to be during the entirety of the above post?


Sarcasm ^^^^^^^?

Has the serial aliasting sgtjb123 deprived himself of life sustaining oxygen by pulling an enema bag tightly over his empty cranium instead of his standard issue crimson and blue cover?

Are you a serial alias carrying on small-gamete grade smear-ops?

Have you lost your pride in being a Jayhawk?

Have you forgotten which is your rifle and which is your gun?

Do you spell sempre fidelis semper fi instead of sempre fi?

Do you spell Rock Chalk rock chock?

Do you not know a latrine orderly's first duty is to his latrine and not to the internet?

Get your toothbrush serial aliasing sgtjb123 on the double.

You have getting better to do, even as a serial alias.


Seriously, its a free forum. You get to ridicule me with sarcasm ^^^^^^ and I get to do the same with mine.

Its all in fun, right?

Alohahawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Yes, Sir!!

A little (?) bit of in your face drilling & drubbing never hurts a Marine Corps recruit. That's why HCBS calls his preseason basketball workouts, "Boot Camp".

To the right: March.

To the Final Four: April.

To the front: KU Jayhawks.

Alohahawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Nice homage to the ethereal atmosphere of "The Phog". Especially when written by a conference rival's own sports writer.

That article brings back a ton of fond memories.

Mahalo, shelleysue. They say "Ignorance is bliss.", but sometimes being aware of something you would otherwise not have known about makes one appreciate it all the more.

Mick Allen 10 years, 7 months ago

I know the many concerns and criticisms voiced here in come from caring, loyal Jayhawk fans who want nothing but the best for our team, however , in reading the comments today one would think our record is 5 and 21, instead of 21 and 5. Try to relax and enjoy the ride, as I think most would agree that this group has far exceeded our wildest collective expectations. There is no one more familiar with our team's strengths and weaknesses than HCBS.Take comfort and confidence from that.

FMTXJayhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Totally agree! This was a great win against a rival in their house! Seems like everyone is lining up excuses for any future losses so they can say 'I told you so'!

jaybate 10 years, 7 months ago

When all the grown men and women leading KU failed in their oversight duties, and in their organizational management skills, and failed to keep schools honor protected, it was this bunch of disrespected young Jayhawks that said, "Nuts!" to failure, and "Nuts" to being surrounded, and "Nuts!" to the Chancellor, to ADs, and thieving trash stealing the university blind, and players jumping ridiculously ahead of time, and too targeted recruits declining the greatest basketball program in history like the lilly livered cowards they were, it was this bunch of young men that redeemed this university from its own disgrace.

Play subs now?

You must be mad!!!!

Rob these players of their rendezvous with destiny?

Again and again youth save us all from all the worst in age.

Young men who decide that something must be done no matter what the cost save civilizations from the ash heap of cynicism and decay.

They save countries from venal leaders that would compromise everything including their own children's futures to keep themselves in big houses with servants.

And now we know they can save at least one university's reputation from the corruption and humiliation brought on by College Sports Inc. and the bureaucratic caution and CYA of its adult leaders.

15 young men.

Only 5 of whom are really good enough to play at this level.

And three more who are taking endless abuse for not being good enough, but who lace them up, when every one else just wants to talk about next year's recruits when things go wrong, and about what we haven't got this year--these three--Conner, Kevin and Justin--go out and find a way to plug holes in the dike of each game, for whatever time their considerable limits permit. How do you think these guys feel? Players know their limitations more than anyone. These guys know they are getting burned. They feel Self's tongue lashings as the walk off the court a thousand times more than any of the rest of us. But they keep coming, keep trying, keep finding little ways to get it done, if only for a few minutes.

jaybate 10 years, 7 months ago

And one--Naadir--who is just too young to play at this speed, but who has had to play, and who will have to play again--who has had to walk into this rendezvous with a destiny he cannot possibly even comprehend yet, and he despite all the negative feedback from coaches, and fans, and all the blow bys and mistakes, the kid keeps coming, keeps trying to rein himself in, to hide all of his weaknesses, and give Self just the bare minimum of a point guard's game. I'm even amazed at what Naadir has discovered about the team and about himself. Naadir now realizes that if he can just go in for 5 minutes, for even three minutes and produce a goose egg box score line, then he is helping this team more than all the assists and driving lay-ups he used to do in high school, and that he will do one day again in a year, or two. Naadir gets no credit for what he is doing, for going against a blindingly fast guard like Tyshawn day in and day out in practice, and for finally quitting trying to play at a level he wanted to play at, and playing at whatever level he can play at. For this thin team, even a minute every other game matters. For this thin team rendezvous-ing with destiny, every minute by a sub matters, even every 30 seconds matter.

The guys that never play matter, because even though they never play, this team is so thin that sooner or later even one of them may get the call.

This team has found out how it has to play to win. It has to play with five guys. It has to mask with 3. It has to pray with one.

This team has to jump out fast and sand bag the middle 20 some games.

This team has to sand bag the first 30 and charge like hell the last ten minutes some games.

This team knows that it will be mugged every game, because it only has five bonafide players and its center, Jeff Withey is vulnerable to being bodied in back and kneed in the knees, and head butted and shoved by everyone that comes near him.

This team knows that every game, TRob will be butchered and triple and quadrupled teamed every time he gets a touch within ten feet. This team knows the player of the year will often time be treated like club fighter and bludgeoned by palookas large and small with rolls of dimes wrapped inside their Everlasts.

This team is like Al McGuire's great Marquette teams. 4-5 guys who can really play, three that barely can, and one you have to pray for.

They are learning to play the game like street fighters, like light heavies training for a shot at a heavy weight.

jaybate 10 years, 7 months ago

They are learning every trick in the book and using it.

They are being forced to to survive.

And they've got a coach who won't back down from anything.

Al McGuire and Bill Self couldn't be farther apart in surface appearance and neighborhoods they come from.

But both men trace their roots back to styles of basketball played by people who never had the advantage, never had the most players and talent, always had to scramble to survive on any court the walked on, had to take punches and learn to trip and scratch and spit to win. Al McGuire came from New York street ball. Bill Self came from the Oklahoma hard scrabble game. His father played and coached it. Bill Self played it for Paul Hansen, who played if for Henry Iba. Iba never had the best players. Iba was always in the shadow of Phog Allen. Iba and Doyle Parrack created Oklahoma hard scrabble basketball as surely as Naismith and Allen created basketball.

Bill Self is no dummy. He wants more talent than any one. He wants more depth than any one. He wants all the advantages, because he knows how much more margin for error they create.

But Bill Self was born to coach this team. He was destined to coach this team, just as surely as John Wooden was born to and destined to coach his 1964 team.

This team, thin though it may be, unpredictable in its TOs though it is, this thin, dogged, pugnacious, sly, deceptive, scrappy, hungry, pack of cast-offs and less thans, and potentially greats, and guys with lots to prove, because they were abandoned by Tom Crean, or nauseated by UA dysfunction, or stuck behind too much talent on previous KU teams, or desperation adds, this team has faced a university student body that in the end didn't even believe in it enough to stay with it when one student was selected as a walk on in its time of dire need!

jaybate 10 years, 7 months ago

This team is a bunch of war weary, battle hardened jungle fighters now with a sense that there may actually be a way off this godforsaken island jungle of a season...a way to get that title...a way to get to the NCAA tournament...a way to "be a condenduh, a somebody, not just bum."

And you want to risk this team's chance at a title now?

No way pal.

There's a war on and a campaign hanging in the balance, just a few more fire fights from being won, in this remote backwater of the media market crazy world.

Brave young men who have played through hell to get here are going to bear down, reach down, claw and scratch and bite, and they are going to get that title, or leave it all on the floor trying.

And then when everyone says, "They are too tired, too exhausted, too war weary from 35-40 minute games," when everyone says, "They haven't got a chance in the Madness," these guys are going to strap it on, lace 'em up, and then they are going to into the next campaign knowing they already saved KU from ignominy not of their own making, that they kept the string of titles intact even when leadership had made all the mistakes it could make.

And when the NCAA tournament starts, these guys are going to look at each other and say, "Now, we are playing for ourselves. And we are dangerous. And we are mean. And we know how to beat teams better than us. And we lo though we walk through the valley of the shadow of single elimination sudden death, we fear no evil."

Give up now?

You have to be mad!

Last night was Edson's Ridge.

The Tenaru looms.

It could come against A&M, or MU, or Texas.

But it will come.

Rock Chalk 2011-2012 KU Jayhawk basketballers.

You have saved this university from its leaders.

You are saving us all from ourselves.

And you have a rendezvous with destiny.

There is only one way off The Canal.

Get the title.

Do whatever it takes.

The future is now.

jaybate 10 years, 7 months ago

You have balls the size sand grains, if you have any at all.

jaybate 10 years, 7 months ago

You make me sick. You don't deserve a team like this. You deserve to live in a godforsaken, second rate, resource whore house like Denver. Never darken my virtual world again, if you can help yourself.

Redlandsjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

PHOF!!! I suggest for the rest of the year they should have 101 Airborne patches on their jerseys. NUTS!!!

FLJHK 10 years, 7 months ago

Great post, as always, Jaybate. Agree the future is now and it is absolutely imperative that they win this conference championship for all the reasons you state plus one more. Only two teams remain in contention, and it is unthinkable to allow the other to win it on their way out the door. I want us to win this one more than any in recent memory. And I'll care about the Big 12 tourney only to the extent that MU is still alive in it.

All that being said, I'd have no problem with using the bench more in some upcoming games against inferior competition. The NCAA tourney promises to be The Canal II, and it will take everything they've got left to make a run.

lifetimeJay 10 years, 7 months ago

Jaybate, you are my favorite board rat. I got goosebumps a couple of times. This has been my favorite team in my lifetime because of already accomplishing so much more than anybody predicted, and how they did it. You need to give pre-game speeches to this team!

Justin LoBurgio 10 years, 7 months ago

Football schedule has been released. We open at home, Sept 15 vs tcu

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

How do you know they are lousy if you listen to Bob and Chris?

Redlandsjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

As much as I was screaming during the game that the refs were trying to give the game to KState I must admit the technical came at a very crucial time. I guess the best word to describe the refs performance last night is bewildering.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

I agree, CWGOKU. I thought the refs were terrible both ways; in fact, I thought they actually helped KU more than they hurt us in this particular game, which is pretty surprising since KU was on the road. But overall it was pretty pi**-poor officiating.

rockchalk80 10 years, 7 months ago

I'm really going to miss Taylor... I could go on about his athletic moves...just as much as I could whine about his TOs and questionable plays...

In the end - he is a good kid, and a Jayhawk---it has been a ride watching him grow.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, that's the fascinating thing about him, isn't it? He drives you nuts at times and yet you still can't help but like the guy.

I would think that even most of his critics would concede that he generally is a good guy. And I would love to see him stay focused and be consistent through the tournament. But I'm scared to death that his mistakes at crunch time are going to kills us in the second round or Sweet 16.

eastcoasthawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Anybody else wondering why the mack truck running over TRob in the paint in the 2nd half wasn't called an intentional foul? Was it too obvious??

Janet Olin 10 years, 7 months ago

Even 'back in the day' of the Big 8, it was commonly acknowledged that the play is rough, away teams don't get breaks like the home team, and any team not tough enough to win '5 on 8' isn't tough enough. It's not right for TRob to be mauled by 2 or 3 defenders every time he's near the ball, because it goes with the territory of a good player getting lots of POY hype. That also means other players are open.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

If you can't play basketball you play rough. I think Frank Martin is a lousy coach and I don't enjoy watching him or his teams. This hot head is a credit to nothing.

1jhawk2 10 years, 7 months ago

Free throws. He’ll work on that. I’d rather have a guy hit threes than free throws. It’s more points.”

WTH? Every point matters Bill, especially in clutch time. I understand no one makes every FREE throw, but players should make them in clutch time or at least a greater percentage of them in the clutch. That would be part of closing out the game. KSUcks still had a shot at taking that game from us. I can't believe you said that. What was the result of the MU game, missed FREE throws at the end of the game left the door open and they took advantage. Look how missed FREE throws hurt OU and their chance to knock off FUMU. Those are Free points while the clock is stopped and they matter big time in all games. I would hate to see us lose in the big tourney because of missed FREE throws (not that I am referencing 2003 National Championship game or anything).

Seriously, you're a pretty darn good coach who believes in defense, but we have to value all of our possessions and that includes the freebies at the line.

packywacky88 10 years, 7 months ago

Bill is just putting a positive spin on the situation. With all his faults and miscues, TT has been hard as nails. We are in the position we are because of TT(and others stepping up). Dance with the one who brought you. Hopefully we'll be dancing in the Final 4. Let's all get ready to enjoy the ride. It's the most wonderful time of the year!!!!!

DanR 10 years, 7 months ago

I like Bill Self's strategy about the free throws... rather than add more pressure to whatever mental block Tyshawn is having at the line, Self downplays it and focuses on something Tyshawn is doing well.

Plus... Self did say, "Free throws. He'll work on that."

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 7 months ago

I think you probably shouldn't take so to heart the things Self says to the media. I feel sure he knows the value of a free throw, and the first part of his sentence, "free throws, he'll work on that" is a better barometer of his feelings than his joke afterward about three-point shots.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 7 months ago

You can take to heart everything Bill Self says as he tells the truth and most often he knows what it is. Yes he has a sense of humor as do all great humans.

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

1jhawk2 - that was indeed a strange comment. I mean, it doesn't have to be an either/or situation does it?!?

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 7 months ago

No, but his point is that the good outweighs the bad. That's basically been his line on TT all season, even after Duke. The kid has made mistakes, but it does need to be acknowledged that he's having a very good season.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

I think Dan said it best: Self's comment was intended to ease the pressure on Tyshawn. We all know that Self will often have another reason for making his comments, and it certainly seems logical that he would want to downplay the problem so it doesn't get worse.

David Howell 10 years, 7 months ago

Thoughts going forward ............

  1. TT could have the largest increase from haters to lovers in a one year period. It would be off of the charts if he would take more pride in his FT shooting or at least act miffed when he misses. That and why can't you finish left-handed layups with your left hand ? Have coaches given up on youngsters learning the proper way to help avoid the shot being blocked so easily ??

  2. We could be the only team in Div. 1 who has their CENTER shooting technical FT's !

  3. I still say we are over-ranked. Once the J-Hawks learn to play a full 40 minute game instead of only 20 to 30 minutes then I will be happy. Otherwise we are and will be ripe for a trip-up in the NCAA tourney. The Hawks know they can't play only a half against Kentucky and there is always a ripe mid-major waiting for us. For sure the NCAA committee will make sure one lands in our bracket !

  4. The bench only scores -2- pts. in a total of 30 minutes. 18 of those minutes were from Teahan and he didn't score until there were six seconds left on FT's. Our bench has to produce more. There is going to be a game that we need their output. At least Young is seeming to get more minutes.

  5. T-Rob has to learn to play his man outside of the paint better. When your man is HOT from 3-pt. land stick to his ass like glue.

  6. Withey - Wow ! If he had more strength then a 5'10" guard, he would probably average 8 to 10 more points a game. Just on simple contested layups or putbacks. Then he would probably be considered with T-Rob for player of the year .........

  7. Withey's GARGANTUAN amount of blocks ! While they are impressive on the surface (way to go Jeff), all Jayhawk fans should be alarmed. Probably 90% of Withey's blocks are because our man to man defense is so weak that Jeff is forced to help clean up after we repeatedly are beat on dribble drives !

I'll take the win at K-Suck's court. But damn the Jayhawks are hard on my nerves and heart condition !!!!!!

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 7 months ago

  1. TT is a good free throw shooter. He'll get his groove back up there.

  2. It's college basketball. Every college basketball team I've ever seen -- including the '08 group -- went through lulls and made mistakes over the course of 40 minutes. It's going to happen more with this group because...

  3. You're right. We lack depth. There's no way around it.

  4. If this were true, then every 7-footer who was physically stronger than Withey would have averaged 30 points a game. It just doesn't work that way.

  5. Our man-to-man defense is weak? Uh, no. Our defenders can shade their men differently knowing Withey and T-Rob are down there. It's team defense.

David Howell 10 years, 7 months ago

  1. Nope ..... not this year.

  2. Don't even compare this years team to 2008. This years team can't afford to play itself into a hole come tournament time.

  3. Truly watch Withey's game ....... Don't get me wrong he has improved, but with his lack of strength he has to learn to do all the little things even better. Next year he'll have more beef laid on him then he knows how to handle because T-Rob is occupying those defenders this year.

  4. Shading your man to let him dribble into the gauntlet equals getting our bigs into foul trouble and or easy layups because their man is now wide open.

Don't get me wrong I love this team. I am just tired of people pretending things are cool and will work out. The J-Hawks fell short last year and this year has to be it. Next year will truly be a relax / grin and bear it year with T-Rob and Tyshwan gone.

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 7 months ago

"this year has to be it. Next year will truly be a relax / grin and bear it year with T-Rob and Tyshwan gone."

Well, we said back in November that THIS year was going to be a "relax/grin and bear it year" with four starters gone, and we said much the same the year before with Cole, Sherron, and X gone. Of course it will be a disappointment if we fall short this year, but either way, Self will reload.

actorman 10 years, 7 months ago

Why do people keep saying that Tyshawn is a good FT shooter??? He has NEVER been a good FT shooter. Look at the stats; his best season was his freshman season when he shot around 72%. That is not close to good, especially for a point guard.

hawk_of_ages 10 years, 7 months ago

I guess I'm the main culprit in defending his FT shooting. If those numbers are accurate, then I'm wrong. I just don't remember that part of his game ever being a concern before, and I know that Self always put him at the line in tech situations before Withey started to come on recently.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 7 months ago

Happy Valentines Day everyone:

1] Did you know St.Valentine was the patron saint of lovers, engaged couples and epileptics?

Kind of an odd mix.

2] It was established by the Romans in 496 AD.

I didn't know Hallmark cards was around that long.

3] The red color and heart symbols came from the fact that many Christian matyrs were named valentines because most were executed by being shot through the heart with an arrow, thus causing a large amount of blood from the victims.

It sounds so romantic.

4] In 1969, Saint Valentine was deleted from the Roman Catholic Calender of saints.

Now he goes by just plain Kevin V.

5] Chocolate is the traditional Valentine candy because of the sensory excitement that can be caused in the female human.

Thank God for chocolate!!

justinryman 10 years, 7 months ago

On the morning of Thursday, February 14, 1929, St. Valentine's Day, five members of the North Side Gang, plus gang collaborators Reinhardt H. Schwimmer and John May, were lined up against the rear inside wall of the garage at 2122 North Clark Street, in the Lincoln Park neighborhood of Chicago's North Side, and executed.

Some of those shooters were dresses as police officers.

Alohahawk 10 years, 7 months ago

LOL!! You should have corrected it to read, "Some of those shooters wore dresses." (Who knows, perhaps they did wear dresses?) :^ )

machinegun 10 years, 7 months ago

Tyshawn played a great game last night! Coach Self said as much. Ty really took it to the Cats at crunch time. He deserved to give it back to their fans afterward. It's great to be in 1st place again.

justinryman 10 years, 7 months ago

It's a good thing that Coach Self didn't bench Tyshawn after the Duke game like so so many posters wanted him to do and start EJ at point. I'd hate to see where this season would have went had it taken that road.

Coach Self had a plan for TT to follow and it took some time, but it happened and it is working!!!!

Steve Gantz 10 years, 7 months ago

It took 3 and a half years! Is that what you mean 'some time'?!

Kye Clark 10 years, 7 months ago

Very few people were saying they wanted Tyshawn "benched". Just switched to the 2-guard and let EJ run the point. And many fans have noticed that EJ has indeed inherited some of the ball handling duties as the season has progressed. Maybe coincidence and maybe not, but since he's had some of that burden relieved he hasn't had those careless turnovers where he gets his pocket picked just walking it up the floor.

Truth is we'll never know how that would have worked out had Self outright switched the two players' positions. I'd still argue that Tyshawn could effectively do everything he does now without having him bring the ball up and initiate the offense. I also wonder if playing EJ at his natural position might be beneficial to him. Like I said, we'll never know.

Redlandsjhawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Before the KU game did you see Pitino on the Louisville sideline? I swear for the first half I thought that was Donny Brasco.

Mike Barnhart 10 years, 7 months ago

The old Tyshawn used to drive me nuts. More charges than Mastercard! More turnovers than a french bakery! Less intelligence than a Kardshian! Last night we saw the old Tyshawn ...his name was Angel Rodriguez!!!

Thank heavens Naadir Tharp is firmly planted deep on the bench this year! He and Rodriguez have similar game at this point. The good thing about freshmen ...after a year they become sophomores!

Ethan Berger 10 years, 7 months ago

We had a Tharpe Sighting, and I think he did well even though it was like 15 seconds. Good drive and pass, very very good play considering K State might have lost on not passing the ball. Tharpe has alot of upside, hopefully he sees that Self is doing what he thinks is best for him.

And WITHEY. I love how he got into everyones face in the time out, then blocks the shot, and then out runs everyone and starts a fast break and finished it.

KansasComet 10 years, 7 months ago

Tharpe can play and play well. He just needs a chance to prove it. Give him 20 minutes in a game, and you will see how good this kid is. I laugh every time, I hear someone say how fast he turns the ball over. Yes, he has been stripped of the ball before and yes he has been snatched out of the game before he can make up for it. If Jeff Withey had been given the chance to play last year as he has done this year, everyone could see that this young man could ball. He always could. Bill Self does not recruit rejects. He does a masterful job of breaking them down and putting them back together. Cole Aldrich in 2007-2008 season, everyone in the tourney was saying "where did this kid from"? He was a McDonalds All-American, he could ball. Tharpe is a 4-star recruit, he can ball. Given a chance, you will see what a lot of posters can already see. This kid can flat-out play. To those who don't agree and think we can get by without this young man, let's just agree to disagree.

REHawk 10 years, 7 months ago

Good post, Comet. I hope Naadir reads it.

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