Sunday, September 4, 2011

Pac-12 commish will listen to proposals from Big 12 teams


KU athletic director Sheahon Zenger comments on the uncertain future of the Big 12

KU athletic director Sheahon Zenger comments on the uncertain future of the Big 12 during halftime of KU's game against McNeese State on Sept. 3, 2011, at Memorial Stadium.

— Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott is willing to listen if Oklahoma or others want to join his conference.

Speaking Saturday night, Scott acknowledged that “schools have reached out to us.”

He repeatedly said the conference was not seeking new members, as it was last year.

Scott added he had to listen to pitches from interested schools to evaluate what might be in the best interest of the Pac-12 members.

University of Oklahoma president David Boren said Friday that multiple conferences have shown interest in the Sooners recently and he expects to decide whether to leave the Big 12 or not within the next three weeks, if not sooner.

Before Texas and Oklahoma decided last summer to remain in the Big 12, there had been interest from the then-Pac-10 about moving West. That included Oklahoma State and Texas Tech as part of a potential 16-team league.

Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds reiterated Saturday before the Longhorns’ opener against Rice that they love the Big 12 and want to stay in the league. He said Texas will be watching to see what happens over the next few days if Oklahoma decides to leave, but that Texas will be fine no matter what happens to the Big 12.

Kansas State athletic director John Currie said his school remains committed to the Big 12, whether that means in its current configuration or through future expansion. He said the primary goal is to achieve stability.

For the Big 12, that has become a tedious challenge.

Missouri athletic director Mike Alden said Oklahoma’s interest in switching conferences only reinforces the notion of instability in the Big 12, but that he remains focused on keeping the conference intact.

Scott said further consolidation and more stability, in whatever form, would be healthy for college football.


ytf23 11 years, 3 months ago

Ok, SZ - if you're trying to instill confidence in your university, know what the Sam Hill you're going to say before giving a statement. All the 'uhs' you throw in there just make you look unprepared. Boren, Pickens, and others have come across as decisive and prepared when discussing their schools' futures. SZ looks like he's just, uh, winging it, uh, if you, uh, know what I, uh, mean. I sincerely hope he has a better plan for the university than he let on there.

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

He said "uh" a couple of times. Get off his back. He was fine.

He measured his speech, because it is in KU's best interest for the Big 12 to stick together and expand. But I guarantee he is on the phone with any and all conference options. The things he says in public are not indicative of what he is doing behind the scenes.

ytf23 11 years, 3 months ago

A couple of times = approximately 2. Watch the video - you'll run out of fingers counting. 'Measured speech' would be taking your time instead of looking frenetic as you search for words. Thanks for your guarantee, but I'd prefer that he present better when Jayhawks all around the nation are rattled. That is not fine.

If you actually know that he is doing something different than what he's said, I'd love some proof. But his speech there was not indicative of a good direction. I guarantee many were not impressed. Hey, I even can prove it - check out the comments.

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

You can prove it by listing anonymous comments from KUSports. Well done. When I watch someone talk, I generally don't use my fingers to count. I usually just pay attention. I'm glad you liked my guarantee as it's the same thing that Matt Tait has said over and over and over again.

If you don't think he's working behind the scenes, you are a fool.

But go ahead and count ums. It obviously makes you feel better about your life.

ytf23 11 years, 3 months ago

You know, if you actually read the comments instead going after me you were SZ's pitbull, I didn't say I don't think he's not working - I said he sure doesn't sound like it. Furthermore, in a situation this big, we are not the only ones watching the situation closely. Evidence that something is actually happening would generally be brought forward by the tons of reporters looking for a scoop. That's how we are reasonably sure that UT is talking to the PAC, for example, even though neither side had made a statement when that was broken. The fact that TTech is mentioned repeatedly speaks strongly - how many times have you seen 'KU and MU/KSU are reportedly discussing things with PAC officials'? Generally, there is no 'keeping things quiet' in something this big in the age of the internet. I hope I'm wrong, but I'd rather review the evidence at hand than attack other posters.

PS - Proof of how people feel was provided. That's what I said, that's what I supported. Look around instead of striking out. It's a much more mature way of going about life.

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

I read comments on it before you posted it, and I still disagree with you. Other anonymous posters saying similar things to you isn't evidence that it's correct. But, of course, disagreeing with you makes me the athletic director's "pitbull," a convenient and rather immature way of attempting to dismiss my dissent. Well done.

Did the AD come across smoothly? No. But this simple interview has no impact on what happens, and I don't believe it is indicative of the kind of job he is doing. That is my opinion, and I don't need other posters saying similar things to make me feel better about it.

"I'd rather review the evidence at hand than attack other posters."

Funny, because when I disagreed with your childish post on the AD, that was exactly what you did to me. Avoid the defensiveness next time. It's just a sports comment board. It can't hurt you.

ytf23 11 years, 3 months ago

If a slew of people going to the trouble of posting comments saying they are not impressed isn't evidence of people being unimpressed... I don't know what to tell you. I don't see any postings, blogs, or op-ed columns that are saying, 'Hey, I feel better after that!' or 'We can see that KU has a plan.' This man is paid to be the director and representative of our athletics... and he is not presenting/representing well here.

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

Okay, I think we are on a different page of what I disagree with, and I believe that is my fault for not being clear on it. My apologies.

What I'm saying is that placating the emotions of the fan base isn't his number 1 priority right now. As I said below, he should and will be judged on how KU comes out after this is all over regardless of how worried we all are. Do I wish he would have handled the interview better to quell the fears? Of course. But I think he was trying not to say much in order to not give anything away, and, unfortunately, it came out more bumbling than it should. My point was, that is not indicative of how he's handling the problem off camera. No, I'm not in the room with him, but Tait has stated over and over that KU is working behind the scenes with all their possible options, and I believe his word and sources over anonymous sports commenters.

I do agree with you that it would have been nice for him to put more confidence in the fan base, but I don't think that's the main problem to be concerned with. I'm sure you feel like it weighs in on how this will turn out, but I don't put much on one bumbling interview. In the end, we are all just speculating, which is why I said he should and will be judged solely on the outcome.

ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years, 3 months ago

What tait says! Dude drinks more ku kool aid than anyone on this site. He'll come out tomorrow with an article saying he still thinks ND and Arkansas will join the big 12. Or just change his "big 12 can exist with 9" articles to 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1. And that's what scary! He's getting his info from the university and showing everyone how out of touch our administration is.

The other thing about this video that you and other posters may not know (and I'll post below) is this took place minutes after the scroll on the bottom of espn read "OU and UT in talks with the PAC" and ran a story discussing the details. Maybe he can't breath because the sucker punch he just took.

ytf23 11 years, 3 months ago

You are completely right - we, the fanbase, are not and should not be his primary focus. Thing is, we know we're not exactly operating from a position of strength here. If all we see is that we don't seem to be coherent about it either.... Yikes.

I sincerely hope you're right. I really do, and I think most of us alums do too. I would be more than happy to eat crow if it meant the University was all right. If SZ/BGL came out on Tuesday with an announcement that we were set for the PAC/Big 10/XII/you pick and it was binding for the next decade, I would be happy to breathe a sigh of relief and say, 'Dang, they did better than I thought. I sure underestimated them.' I'd be proud to continue to support the university whenever I could.

What would kill me is if we ended up in a true mid-major conference and had to watch our beloved sports programs slide into mediocrity/oblivion. Sure, I'll still send checks back home once in a while, but it won't be with as much enthusiasm.

Either way, we're Jayhawks to the glorious/bitter end, right LA? No hard feelings, we both want a great outcome for the university. There are plenty of Tigers out there for us to hate.

Rock Chalk, bro.

ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years, 3 months ago

uh he did sound like uh he was going to need uh paper bag to breath in uh after he uh finished talking to the uh heavy hitting reporters from uh the university daily kansan uh and the uh ljw.

now imagine this

yes we have heard the rumors coming out of ou and i can promise the people of kansas that blg and i have be in constant contact and will be looking out for the university best intrest. we still believe that to be the big 12 but we are looking into contingency plans. rock chalk.

heck, i would of settled for

we have no comment at this time

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

"heck, i would of settled for

we have no comment at this time"

Perse, you would have jumped all over him for a comment like that. In fact, you would have jumped all over him if the words coming out of his mouth turned into unicorns and rainbows.... "where's the leprechaun, Sheahon?? Where. Is. The. Leprechaun???"

I agree it wasn't a great interview, I just don't think it has any effect on what's happening. I think there is too much overreacting to one interview where he was clearly trying to not give anything away. He certainly could have done better, but it's really not a big deal. How he handles the conference breaking down is the point that he should and will be judged on, even if he doesn't placate the emotions of the Jayhawk fanbase in the meantime.

ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years, 3 months ago

where's the leprechaun. . .freaking lol!

yes, i would of jumped on him for saying "no comment" i'm saying "no comment" compared to "uh, uh, panic breathing, uh, uh, red face" would of sounded like "i have a dream"

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago


"I have a dream that one day Kansas will not be judged by the players on the field, but by the actions of the presidents of other universities to which we have no control. I have a dream today!"

Fair enough. I agree, it wasn't a good interview. "No comment" would have made him look better.

madamhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

What a mess. Because of our basketball we will end up at least, in the Big East which is horrendous travel for our student athletes. I know it's "for each their own" but unlike some of these Big XII schools, I actually feel for ISU, KSU and Baylor which is very possible they will be left hanging. Beebe is such a useless jacka$$.

rob4lb 11 years, 3 months ago

Do I read this that Scott is inviting teams to make a pitch or is this a smoke screen for the Oklahoma and Texas schools to start the process to leave and absolve the Pac 12 from any law suites?

My understanding last time is that Scott like KU and preferred KU over Oklahoma State. Culturally, KU is closer to Pac 12 schools than TT and OSU, but not that close. Who has the power this time? I would think is Scott could pick his own four teams from the Big 12, they would be OU-UT and KU-MU.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 3 months ago

I thought that too, except with Pickens money behind them, over the last three years Oklahoma State athletics have gained heavily in value, actually breaking the top 20 most valued football programs in 2008.

Still, KU may not be out in the cold.

Texas politics might try to force Tech, but if he gets OU and OSU to commit, Larry Scott will understand he just killed the Big 12 without HAVING to take Tech, which might leave one open spot after Texas joins.

The reason they will not have to get carried along with Texas now is because, thanks to TCU, the state of Texas at least knows now Baylor and Texas Tech both have some shot at getting into the Big East. There will still be pressure, but not like last year.

Also, the SEC still has a hand to play in this.

Jason Spangler 11 years, 3 months ago

Who is Zenger and why is he our AD?

He sounds like he's in way over his head. This is scary. Dude better get his sh_t straightened out asap.

1957 11 years, 3 months ago

With all that was wrong with Lew this situation fit his strength. I would feel better if he were the one guiding us through these rough waters.

But he isn't so no use bagging on Zenger.

loyal2thaphog 11 years, 3 months ago

+1,000,000. It'd be like Joe Namath talking to reporters before Superbowl III.

Chris1955 11 years, 3 months ago

Some part of me hopes that KU was smart enough to have Lew Perkins on a retainer, to use as a kind of stealth negotiator for this situation that we are now in. I do think that right before all this business came to an end last year, Larry Scott was about to pull the plug on TT in favor of KU. I remember reading that his private plane was in Austin and had filed a flight plan to KC. He never made the flight because TAMU agreed not to go to the SEC, thus ending (or so we thought) this disintergration of the Big 12.

TT doesnt really bring much to the table right now after the Mike Leach era has ended. It is not a strong academic school, falling in power in football with no basketball program to speak of. I say KU trumps TT in academic reputation and national BB strength. If you're bringing your 16th school into the conference, does it really have to be that big of a football school? The Pac 12 is not a strong BB conference and could use KU BB's national prominance.

My dream scenario is still for KU and MU to enter the Big Ten.

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

"Do I read this that Scott is inviting teams to make a pitch or is this a smoke screen for the Oklahoma and Texas schools to start the process to leave and absolve the Pac 12 from any law suites?"

My take is option 2. If OU is telling the truth that conferences are "in contact" with them, then Pac 12 wants the public record to suggest they are the one's being contacted and not that they have gone after Big 12 schools.

Of course, if the thought that OU is just posturing in all of this to get ESPN to finance their network is correct, then Scott could be honest in that OU contacted them to put pressure on Texas and ESPN (and to show whatever solidarity there is). Texas would back OU in order to shift all the pressure to ESPN. I heard Sportscenter say in passing that TLN may not be a problem in the Pac 12, but that's the entirety of the comments I've heard on that very large sticking point. I have to think that the other 12 schools in he Pacific Conference are not thrilled about a team joining with its own ESPN-backed network. I don't think it will be as smooth a move for Texas as it seems to be dismissed as. Perhaps I'm just being stupidly optimistic, but I see where this is just a power move on OU's part.

I do think the latter -- that the Pac 12 contacted OU and that Scott is covering his legal bases -- is correct, but that doesn't mean that OU isn't just using that for leverage. Big 12 is best for KU at this point, so, I suppose, at worst I'm just hoping....

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

"(and to show whatever solidarity there is)" .... that was supposed to come after the next sentence about Texas backing OU. Quick edit. My apologies.

mojayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

Whatever happens, KU needs to be in the midwest in my opinion. If we go Pac-? Big East, or SEC, we lose the tournament in KC. Bad for all of us. Furthermore, our area teams, KU, MU, and KSU need each other and could carry some clout in whatever conference we look at. Together, we would make a very attractive package for a conference to snatch up. Of all the conferences that will end up changing, the Big 10 may make the best sense geographically. I hate to see all of this go down and lose our century long rivalries. Sometimes, change isn't so good.

Mike Barnhart 11 years, 3 months ago

Hey Zenger, get OU, OSU and MU on a conference call and sell them on a four team package deal to the Big Ten. We'd still keep geographic ties and secure the future for all of us!

The Big Ten seems to understand that tradition, program quality and a rabid EXISTING fan base trumps total number of TV sets.

Ashwin Rao 11 years, 3 months ago

I love the idea as I live in Dayton, OH, and have no exposure in our current situation... People don't even associate KU to Kansas here (they automatically think of Kentucky). OK... let us start the movement... "The Sky is falling!" :)

Dale Kroening 11 years, 3 months ago

I love this idea, although the chances of it happening are very low IMO.

ytf23 11 years, 3 months ago

I would love it. Not sure that OU/OSU would join us on a conference call (they generally are/aren't going to be able to join any conference without us), but having the extra tradition and history of KU/MU/the old Big 8 might push it a bit more.

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

I agree, good idea. But I don't think OU is going anywhere without Texas. That rivalry is way too valuable to the Sooners to have a chance of it not happening.

I could see a circumstance where Texas goes independent and plays OU every year ala Michigan/Notre Dame, but I think much, much more likely is that they join the same conference. (And, yes, I realize they could join different conferences and still play, but I think Texas is either with OU or on their own).

hawksquawk 11 years, 3 months ago

I too would prefer the big ten, both for geographical reasons and because of their academic standards. Joining the big ten would make our KU degrees more valuable over time.

However, ok state is not an AAU school, and every big ten school is.

Hiroyuki Kato 11 years, 3 months ago

Mr. Zenger, we understand you are dissapointed by Boren's comments but what 's your next move? Remember Pac-12 wants KU instead of Texas Tech. So he should talk to Scott now. Otherwise KU will end up in the MWC which will hurt BB.

Travis Shinkle 11 years, 3 months ago

I agree. Zenger needs to be calling both the Big 10 and the Pac-12 NOW. The Pac-12 has the power now and, as I too have read, they wanted KU over Tech (like that was a stretch: Kansas City market or the empty west Texas market)...he needs to talk the Pac-12 into it now.

amatxjayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

Three points: 1. The sky has not fallen.

  1. You guys would make damn poor poker players. The principal at play here is don't expose your hand, and folks this really is a major point. Maybe we should just get off the AD's back. He didn't make the crisis and we don't know what he's doing.

  2. Maybe we go to the Ivy league. They keep the focus where it needs to be; we'd dominate basketball; compete well in the rest (How about that debate team?); and our alma mater would have a familiar ring to them. We might even negotiate some kind of a network deal with the History Channel. Of course there's the travel thing.

Ashwin Rao 11 years, 3 months ago

+1 Love it! Especially the "History Channel" bit!

jhox 11 years, 3 months ago

The Big 12 as we know it is done. Period. Make no mistake about it, Boren's public comments were intended to undercut any Big 12 efforts to find a viable replacement for A&M. He has effectively sabotaged the Big 12's future, and I have little doubt that his comments were measured and intentional. Boren is a professional politician. He knew very well what his comments would lead to.

KU needs to quit trying to save the Big 12, and start trying to save itself. You can bet everyother school (other than maybe KSU, ISU and Bayor) are looking out for themselves.

Zinger needs to make a pitch to the Pac 12 that we should be one of the four teams they accept. He also needs to make an immediate pitch to the Board of Regents as to why they should allow KU to seperate from KSU. He needs to get us in the Pac 12, period. The Big East is no longer a viable option, as they will be the next major conference to fall.

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

Good post.

I would say, though, that the best case scenario for KU is the continuation of the Big 12 with added teams, so trying to keep it together is, in effect, KU looking out for itself. However, you are 100% correct, they need to ALSO be looking elsewhere. And I'm confident they have been. Just need to push even harder now.

Angus0199 11 years, 3 months ago

You are such a chump. Would ever have to count on you to watch my back. Wasn't you who told the cops who bought the beer in high school. Go man a foxhole sometime and see what really matters-Character, tradition, brotherhood. Just because some okies maybe bolting doesn't mean you get histerical.

FinalFinal 11 years, 3 months ago

Bubba might have been better than least he had ties to the Golden Domers.

Lew had the BigLeast set up...BFD.

At least we have an AD this time around. Just don't send in Mohajir....unless Snellenburger is making a choice.

number1jayhawker 11 years, 3 months ago

I guess most of you don't realize that the ADs are not making the calls. This is at the top with the Presidents of the Univercities doing the decision making and deals. Of course the ADs do give their imput.

Ashwin Rao 11 years, 3 months ago

Point well made! I guess the mob will have to take their pichforks & torches to the President of university then... :)

Spencer Goff 11 years, 3 months ago

So BGL is making our case for us...

I feel better already...

So... much... better......

Robert Brock 11 years, 3 months ago

"Missouri athletic director Mike Alden said Oklahoma’s interest in switching conferences only reinforces the notion of instability in the Big 12, but that he remains focused on keeping the conference intact."

Does anybody trust Mizzou after their effort to jump ship last year? Absurd...

Dale Kroening 11 years, 3 months ago

Not for a minute ! Fizzou is just saying what they need to say, if they get an offer they are gone. If someone would have took them, they would have left with NU and CU. Still funny that the B10 teased them and then put no offer on the table. Right now its hard to trust what any B12 school officials say period. Like I said we need to be proactive and start looking for a new conference for KU now !!!

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

Yeah, that was a crappy quote. You don't even have to read between the lines to see "publicly we're committed, but you can't get pissed at us this time for trying to bolt behind the scenes... it's OU's fault!"

texashawk10 11 years, 3 months ago

Why are people ripping SZ and BGL for taking the same public stance that MU and UT are taking in regards to the future of the Big 12?

Spencer Goff 11 years, 3 months ago

With SZ I have mixed emotions, but with BGL it isn't because of their public stance. I think we all expect them to say nothing is going on.

She is getting ripped because we are not sure that anything is actually being done. We'll see.

If she survives this and negotiates us into a solid conference she basically has a job here for two decades. If she gets us into the Missouri Valley she has a job here for about two weeks.

Should be interesting.

ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years, 3 months ago

The good news is Larry Scott is not dumb. He knows that as much as OU and Texas bring to the table, OSU and TT take away from it. When is the last time you saw someone wearing a TT or OSU shirt walking down the street? And the PAC doesn't have to bow down to the almighty Texas and their market because they already have sizable markets in la, phx, sea, port, San Fran, slc, and Denver. Sure he would love to add Texas but he is not as dependent on it as the big12 is. With OU you get the Dallas market and something that is grossly overlooked is the amount of ku people in Chicago.

Selling ku to the PAC should be easy. Sure football sucks now, but we are a couple of years removed from a BCS bowl which proves it can be done at ku. OSU or TT have any BCS bowls under their belt? Heck bob stoops barley does! Top notch facilities (the PAC is a big t&f conference, they actually might like our track;) and academics.

I would have to think we would have some relationship with Pac AD's from the basketball team. They have seen us out number u of a fan 10-1 last year in Vegas. They have heard the rock chalk chant in Westwood and will hear it this year at USC. And it seems like we play either Washington or Cal every year. There has to be some numbers guy that can figure out the bump in attendance when the jayhawks come to town and that has to be worth something.

Miles Nease 11 years, 3 months ago

Philip Anschutz has got have some pull, as well. He is very well connected in SoCal as he owns the Staples Center (site of Pac Tournament) and has large interests in the Lakers and Kings. His company, I have heard, is also privately financing a new football stadium to help lure the NFL back to LA. Finally, he is on our upcoming Capital Campaign committee. If we end up left out in the cold, that thing will be a bust. He knows this. I also read on another board that he has given millions of dollars to several Pac schools. I know the CU medical school in Denver is named after him.

Hank Cross 11 years, 3 months ago

Most people in CA don't know the difference between TT and ITT Tech. The same to a lesser extent about OSU. If it was up to Cal and Stanford, I'm sure they'd take us over TT in a hearbeat. But, the P12 wants UT and UT wants its runt brother. So the P12 better get ready for the real-life version of the Beverly Hillbillies.

Brian Skelly 11 years, 3 months ago

While Lew left us at the bar with the check and a mild hangover, this sorta stuff was his bread and butter. But with a newer chancellor and AD, it certainly FEELS like the greenhorns are making decisions for us. Yikes.

I still think KU ends up in BCS conference though. But what will that mean if there's more seismic shifting to go on, which im sure there is.

Other than the SEC, us to any of the remaining makes some sense and has some logic. Of course none of these options is as good as a strong Big 12, but that of course is now off the table. Id prefer the Big 10, but the Pac 27, the ACC, the Big East would fit in the "new world order" were embarking on.

Sorry, the SEC would be best for $$$ and Football. But nothing else about it would be a fit. Of course, Id still be taking Mike Slive's calls if they were there.

Dale Kroening 11 years, 3 months ago

I hate to say it, but its time for us to look for a new conference instead of just standing pat as everyone else leaves and we end up in conf usa or the mac or worse. Our AD needs to start inquiring now !!! As many others Id prefer the B10, not sure they have any interest in us though, but the Pac12/16 or BigEast or even the ACC would work. The B12 isnt going to stay together, its obvious, time to find a new home and be proactive, otherwise we are going to be left out in the cold. Now is the time Zenger and BGL !!!!!

Spencer Goff 11 years, 3 months ago

I called this move by Larry Scott on Sept. 1st and all I got were smartass replies.

"1. Larry Scott is no idiot. In fact, he is a bit of a visionary. His only mishap last year was actually believing UT when they said, "Yeah we want to leave." But you can bet he won't make that mistake again. Right now he says that he is not making any phone calls, not making any moves, etc. But he has to be scheming, and that leads me to...

  1. What move could he make to force the Big 12 demise? He WANTS Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas, but he cannot get any of those cleanly without something else happening first. The answer is to approach Kansas, Kansas State, or Texas Tech. Now, Kansas State has no shot at passing a unanimous vote for entry into the Pac-12. Sorry, but there is no way Cal or Stanford is going that route. Texas Tech would only pass that vote if UT is coming with them, and even then it would be a tight fit. That leaves KU as a school that he might attempt to sway. Why KU? Well...

  2. Right now our new Chancellor and Athletic Director are under the gun. There are a lot of boosters that really feel like she is in over her head. Zenger has the boosters support so far, but that will change in a heartbeat should he turn down a public invite to the Pac-12. Particularly if that reason were to keep alligned with Kansas State. Opposing rhetoric questions his allegiance, and what more evidence would be needed. Both he and his boss would be shopping for a new job."

Some forum poster on this site shouldn't be able to predict Larry Scott's mindset while our illustrious leaders cannot. Weiberg knows this conference, he knows what KU brings to the table. If we have ANY friends left with Weiberg they should be on the phone with him now, getting a feel for what it would take, and how to not get left out.

ytf23 11 years, 3 months ago

Very interesting take. KU (or one of the other two) becomes the patsy for the Big 12's downfall in exchange for the invite to the PAC. I would have thought they would have pushed that sort of plan before OU an UT were actively reported to be in discussions with the PAC, as it would be better timed as a cover-up. However, our admins right now really are under a lot of pressure to get something right (as are the admins at TTech... I'm not sure if KSU gets it yet, all I can remember reading anywhere about them is that fool Hammertoe yelling '13-1' on all our boards). Given the circumstances, your logic seems very sound. (Btw, thanks for providing an excellent example Sun Tzu's principle of giving enemy soldiers a chance at life, thereby pushing them in the direction you want.)

Hank Cross 11 years, 3 months ago

Good take, but Scott wants UT more than he doesn't want TT. He can sell the tagalong as long as he gets the big prize.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 3 months ago

Yes, Scott absolutely covets UT, but I beleive that he can get UT without taking Tech IF he can start the dominoes from outside of Texas. If he can get a commitment from the Oklahoma schools or Kansas, or if Mizzou bails (whichever happens first).

That is the reason I believe we should be talking to Scott (through Weiberg if we have to) and coming up with a way that we can be invited, thus forcing the issue.

Chris1955 11 years, 3 months ago

I agree. Larry Scott is probably in the driver's seat this time around. OU is riding shotgun. OU will be able to dictate the OSU inclusion. It's up to Larry Scott to choose the other two schools.

So, does he go with a KU/MU package or a UT/TT package or a UT with either a KU or MU component. I honestly think TT is worried about how this falls out.

ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years, 3 months ago

Oh! My! God! Any chance SZ and Weiberg worked together at KSU?


Wake up, dust the stripper glitter off from last nights victory party, and find out.

jgkojak 11 years, 3 months ago

The big picture: The ACC (12) + B10 (12) + SEC (12) + B12 (10) + B-East (9 football) + Pac12 (12) = 67

Meaning if we get 4 16 team super-confs there are 3 of the above BCS teams on the outs (if the Big East / ACC ends up with a 20 basketbal-16 football config then there are 4 additional bball only schools joining the Atlantic 10).

Since every current member, deserving or not, of the SEC/Pac12/B10 is legally secure - this leaves the B12/ACC and Big East to make the sacrifice. Most likely to go: 1. South Florida - they just joined the BCS recently, and may not have a natural home 2. Baylor - they were kinda forced on the B12 anyway due to Texas politics 3. TIE: Miami - maybe none of the 16 team superconfs wants to touch the scandal-waiting to happen (its noteven a goof college sports town) 3. TIE: a. Iowa Sate, b. Kansas State 4. Cincinatti/Louisville - shouldn't they be in Conf USA?

KU is far, far down this list and WILL have a home.

Best case: Big 10 with Mizzou. OK: Pac 16 with OU, OSU and Texas Worst: Merged ACC/Big East, though itwould be fun seeeing Roy's face when he ends up in the same conf. as Kansas

If I had to put money down, I'd say we end up in B10 and Mizzou ends up in SEC

Mark Modrcin 11 years, 3 months ago

I think this is pretty spot on. With four mega conferences (PAC, SEC, B10, and ACC) looking for four more teams each, that leaves the 10 Big XII teams + 9 Big East Teams + Notre Dame for 16 spots. We may be one of the last teams into one of the four conferences, but no way we're left out.

jgkojak 11 years, 3 months ago

There is also the possibility that the ACC gobbles up WVU, Pitt, UConn and Syracuse (all that makes LOTS of sense), the bball only schools (Georgetown, etc) join the A10.

If this happens... The B10 grabs Rutgers, Notre Dame's hand is forced, and they need 2 more members -- that'd have to be MO and KS (no way the B10 wants TCU). If MO goes SEC is DEFINITELY includes KS, and possibly Iowa State.

Jayhawk444 11 years, 3 months ago

I like this analysis. I've said a few times in this discussion the only scenario I would feel OK with (apart from the Big 12 staying together) is a move to the Big 12. Road trips to Madison, Iowa City, Minneapolis, Champaign, and Lincoln, make way more sense than trips to Seattle, Los Angeles, Syracuse, or Connecticut. What doesn't make any sense at all is taking a Big12 consisting only of Baylor, KU, KSU, MU, and Iowa State (after the Pac 12 raids the rest of the South) and trying to re-expand into something meaningful. Nebraska and Colorado and Texas A&M are looking smarter all the time now, eh?

Sparko 11 years, 3 months ago

Kansas definitely needs to keep its powder dry for a multi-million dollar lawsuit if ESPN or other schools misled them last year. There is no economic way this conference realignment makes sense travel wise. None. And since South Florida p*wned Notre Dame, what really is the point of all of this? Boise State waxed Georgia on the road. There is this myth that surrounds the BCS that there is really much difference between teams. Some teams want to be even more of a monor league NFL franchise--I get that, but that is not why these schools exist. It is an affront to our fans to be having these discussions.

A word to the PAC 12: Texas will ruin whatever it touches. It is the University of callousness. UT has all this athletic money while Texas has one of the very worst educational systems in the country. #47 where it counts. Texas needs to direct its "money" to where it is really needed.

Sparko 11 years, 3 months ago

What big picture? Athletics has become too independent of the best interests of the schools and fans they represent, and are keeping way too much revenue and power. These are academic institutions. Too bad the NCAA was neutered during the whole BCS realignment years ago. The greed and mendacity of Texas is well-known. I blame them for all of this. Frankly, I would like Kansas to lead a new super Midwest conference. ESPN can go to Hell anyway. They barely mention anyone but their "affiliates" in the SEC and former Big XII.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 3 months ago

Who the h*ll cares about academics?

That excellent point aside, who and what do you think helps fund the academic pursuits? And who and what do you think helps fund the athletic programs?

Sparko, you are missing the big picture (and the point) --- Money.

Your position is a noble one. I grant you that.

lama 11 years, 3 months ago

KU should be putting together a proposal to the Pac-12, hopefully including Phil Anschutz and other prominent alumni -- and calling in favors from everywhere. KU needs to focus on selling its strengths (academics, huge, athletic revenue, nationwide alumni base, big-time hoops program that brings ratings etc.) vs. OSU and Texas Tech, which bring nothing to the table. Tech doesn't even have a real rivalry with UT. The fact the Texa Legislature let A&M go to the SEC means it could care less about TT.

gardenjay 11 years, 3 months ago

:Maybe get rid of the 'Big 12'' commish, because he's useless obviously, and start our own conference. We've got Kstate, Missouri, Iowa State at least. If anyone else wants to join, they have to sign 100 year contracts.

I can't help thinking that if Karl Marx were alive today, he would feel very smug looking at what Big Money does. How sad.

MrPilot 11 years, 3 months ago

This is all so disgusting and depressing. Nobody has any loyalty anymore. It's all about money. Almost makes me want to stop watching any college athletics at all.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 3 months ago

Let's keep this all in perspective. Mr. Pilot, don't start fitting that noose for your neck just yet.

Everyone please keep in mind the only important thing. And there is only one. That KU be in a position to maintain its standing as an elite, top 5 basketball program. To play big games, to be on TV, to keep coach Self.

The rest of our athletics programs are subpar and don't deserve a mention.

KU basketball is what KU is about.

Any of our considerations in realignment here needs to have KU basketball as nearly the only consideration.

Think about it .. if KU basketball remains an elite program, with coach Self, competing for a title nearly every year, does anything else really matter?

TwistedFish31 11 years, 3 months ago

With this in mind, can you imagine KU's basketball coverage if it were to join the Big East? We'd be happy with that east coast bias at that point.

Hank Cross 11 years, 3 months ago

Yep. Don't care if the swim team has to travel extra miles.

Angus0199 11 years, 3 months ago

B-Ball doesn't mean a thing. All this is because of football. bball is small potatoes. Its nice to think it matters because thats the only thing we're good in.!

rob4lb 11 years, 3 months ago

It is interesting to read the responses from the universities following the OU chancellor's comments. Pickens is now a spokesperson for OSU and is pretty much saying the Big 12 is history. MU is becoming more vocal and KU is at least indicating they are frustrated and looking at all options. K-State still has the solidarity line.

I hold out hope that if the Big 12 dissolves, that MU and KU would be picked up by the Big 10 and get completely away from UT. I also think that MU and KU can make a pitch to the Pac 12 as travel partners opening up the Kansas and Missouri markets. The Big East or ACC would be terrible. We need to end up in one of the three power conferences: Big 10, Pac 12 or SEC.

jgkojak 11 years, 3 months ago

There will be no "Big East" left either -- if the P12 succeeds in its OU/OSU/TTU/Texas raid no way MU, for one, stands pat. The SEC quickly grabs MU. They MAY be happy sticking w/14 at this point, but there will be 4 team out in the cold - KU, KSU, ISU and Baylor.

Nebraska has a huge # of KC Area alumni - bringing in KS as another natural rival for NU makes a helluva lot of sense for the B10.

The only other option is we end up in some crazy super Big-East with KU, KSU, ISU, Baylor, TCU, Marqette, DePaul, Cinci and Louisville in a division.

I REALLY REALLY HOPE that Little and Zengher see how much that would suck not just for athletics but for academic reputation as well.

jay381 11 years, 3 months ago

The conference alignment is not made by athletic directors. Zenger has only been on board for a few months. With all due respect I do feel to point the aim at Zenger is mistaken. Time will tell how effective or ineffective Zenger will be.

I would like to see what the heck Bernadette is doing. The action is at the presidential (or Chancellor) level of the university not the AD. I was a little envious when Joe Castiglione (OU Athletic Director) was asked about conference alignment. His response was quick and forceful. Paraphrased: It is imperative the university speak with one voice and that voice is President David Boren. It would be totally inappropriate for anyone else to comment at this stage of the process.

I certainly do wish KU had a Chancellor with the personal dedication to KU that David Boren has for OU, which goes far beyond a job, looking out for the interest of KU.

I was told first hand by some in the media a year ago there was a strong interest in making KU the 4th potential entry into the Pac 12, not TX Tech. At that time Tech was only included because of TX legislative pressures not to be left behind. OU and OSU are pretty well tied together. I would only hope this flicker of hope for the Pac 12 has been cultivated from Bernadette. The thought that at least back door conversations had not taken place at the Presidential level would almost be an abdication or responsibility.

I do hope there have been proactive steps already taken to assure the future of KU athletics other than to sit back and see what happens. Personally the idea of The Big East is a last resort. The future of the Big 12 is to say the least questionable. Others have read the tea leaves and taken action. I hope the KU leadership is not the “wallflower” just waiting to see what others do.

Tex4sJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

Texas is just a mess. I'm starting to really wonder if they will just end up as Independent like BYU and Notre Dame.

I don't see KU going way out west - even though we know our fans are loyal. How many road games will you make to California or Oregon? Minneapolis, Iowa city, different story. I think Big 10 makes more sense - and we already know Missouri had some serious discussion with them last year. I think KU / Mizzou would make sense in Big 10. They would just have to split the divisions up again, a little more than before.

OU/OSU are obviously a package deal - and already have made intentions to go west.

Baylor / Texas Tech are unknowns. ISU / KSU - would possibly get the Big 10 invite if the conference wanted to expand to that many teams?

Another scenario, not much discussed - are adding teams to Big 12. I always had my heart set on Arkansas and TCU. I don't think TCU is even a chance right now, and TCU wants nothing to do with Baylor after the Southwest conference disappeared. But what about a few extra teams like Memphis, Air Force, SMU, Houston or Rice, Geographically it makes sense for all teams involved. Arkansas has not done well in the SEC conference since it went SEC. I could see Arkansas/ Missouri being a big rivalry if they played every year.

I don't see the significance of keeping KU with K-State over Missouri honestly. Who knows, at this point - everything is going behind the scenes. And I don't see how any conference really wants to put up with Texas!!

ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years, 3 months ago

i was totally going to post something good until i saw the advertisement with the impotent cowboy. now i've lost all train of thought. wth!

Randy Bombardier 11 years, 3 months ago

I still think we need to try and keep some kind of conference where we are. If we cannot join the Big10 we need to merge with the Mt West. It is better than globe-trotting. Meanwhile we get to work politically. This is out of control and congress needs to get involved. Pure and simple there needs to be restrictions on distance. I feel betrayed by OU. Perhaps if we are the last to leave the the conference then with all the buy outs we offer signing bonuses to teams we want in.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 3 months ago

Um...the MWC should be like our 100th choice, and independent would be before that.

Option 1: Pac 12 expansion Option 2: Big 10 expantion (I would take this as much as the Pac 12) Option 3: SEC talks Option 4: ACC Option 5: Independent .... Option 100: Merge with the MWC.

I may have overstated the possibility of joining the MWC, it might be option 102 or 103.

Now KSU that might be a big option for them.

LAJayhawk 11 years, 3 months ago

Wow. The Texas legislature is now getting involved. Reportedly to the degree that they may not allow A&M to leave the Big 12 after all, and lawsuits might start flying:

This whole thing is about to get extremely interesting (and scary and messy).....

rob4lb 11 years, 3 months ago

Living in Texas, I will have to tell you that the legislature is a joke. So, let's say that through legislative pressure and threat of law suit, the SEC decides not to accept Texas A&M and the Aggies are forced to stay in the Big 12. What kind of trust amongst conference members do you end up with? All conference members are trapped in an abusive relationship.

The legislature cannot tell OU what to do, but as some has speculated, OU's exploring options may be part of plan between OU and UT to gracefully exit the conference together. Who knows?

Right now, no school that could strengthen the conference would consider joining this disfunctional conference so what's the point in trying to keep it together?

Chris1955 11 years, 3 months ago

I live in the Houston area. Our legislature meets every other year. Rick Perry our Governor is a ex-TAMU Yell Leader. He recently appointed 4 new members to the TAMU Board of Regents. in other words, he fully supports the TAMU extraction from the Big 12.

Our legislature is NOT going to try and force TAMU to stay in the Big 12. Furthermore, there will be no clammoring that TT must go with UT into the Pac 12. Baylor will and TT may become conference realignment roadkill.

ytf23 11 years, 3 months ago

Nice pickup. At this point, do you think we have a better shot with trying to hold the whole apple crumble together or do we call up OU/PAC and try to slip in with KSU or MU while the legislature holds UT/TTech up?

jay381 11 years, 3 months ago

Just me but of all the realistic alternatives I like the Pac 12. I do not think Big 10 is realistic based on the response to the last realignment any more than I see a future for the Big 12 long term. I saw some possibilities of divisional play out of OK when I lived in OK that really looked intriguing. Now CO is in the Pac and with two potential schools in OK plus two more in AZ and who knows about TX it is not like every trip is to OR, CA, or WA. I also read some positive comments by Bill Self a year ago talking about rivalries with AZ, tradition of Pawley Pavilion etc. Perhaps I misread his comments at the time but I thought Bill Self was pumped at the potential when that mysterious plane was to arrive. That was last year but I was pumped at the time if we could get in on that group. I can see Tempe or Tucson in January. It sure beats the heck out of the Big East any time. I just do not see a viable future for the Big 12 as a BCS conference and the drop from BCS to non BCS is just something I prefer not to think about. One thing is for sure this may be the most important year perhaps in the history of the KU football program to show some marked improvement. Gill needs to demonstrate he can get it back to a BCS bowl game in the future. GO football Jayhawks.

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 3 months ago

How killer would going to the B10 with Mizzou be? sigh, seems unlikely though.

I suppose we could recruit even more players from the east coast if we join the Big East... that is a murderous bball schedule though.

Its going to be bumpy till OU makes up their minds...

Spencer Goff 11 years, 3 months ago

I think the media is assuming UT wants to take TT because they wanted it last round. Have we seen any statements from anybody regarding this as truth?

I know Baylor will scream bloody murder if they get left out, but there is NO SHOT that they get invited to the Pac 12 in any form. They will never, ever, ever pass a unanimous vote from Stanford and Cal. They should be making moves to capitalize on the other nights football game and joining TCU in the Big East. They probably already are.

Look, I know it makes us all nervous, but as I outlined a few weeks back, KU is in a great spot as long as they go PROACTIVE.

The Big East will be forced to reformat for football. If we end up there we play in a western half of it that we can actually play solid football with, and our basketball program can recruit anyplace it wants. We would have featured prime time games in two time zones against some of ESPN's most beloved teams. I do not fear going to the Big East.

If we end up in the Pac 12 we still hold onto or CST primetime basketball spot, continue to have big games against west coasters (we have basically won the Pac10 already in the shootout in years past), and have the occasional late nighter. Plus, our football team is in no worse shape, probably better there, as we can compete against their schools while maintaining third tier recruits out of Texas. I don't honestly believe we are going to beat Texas or Oklahoma, but how is that worse than it is now?

Two solid options as long as we keep wheeling and dealing. I am a little worried, and a lot stoked about all the possibilities here.

This conference died in June of 2007. We need to pull the plug and get on with our lives.

Pamela Shanks 11 years, 3 months ago

This post was copied from an ESPN board. Any thoughts on this? "People are talking about the implosion of the BIG 12, I see it differently. I see the BIG 12 inviting the best football program non qualifiers in to replace OU, Texas, Texas Tech and OkSt. The remaining BIG 12 schools are still in a great position because they are in a current BCS qualifying conference. That means that invites to quality football programs are going to be accepted. In this way the BIG 12 not only survives, but thrives. With Oregon State laying an egg, Washington State laying eggs for years, Colorado becoming irrelevant, the PAC 16 will be strong, but still diluted at the bottom. A new BIG 12 would fill a very important role in providing AQ status to deserving schools playing great college football. The best part is that they are already in the BCS. The key is choosing new schools who help them retain that status. Think Boise State, BYU, TCU, Houston, Air Force, SMU, Hawaii, Nevada, Fresno State..... Now, just about every non AQ school who has been a solid football school in the past decade gets to punch a ticket to the BCS. Those four schools going to a PAC 16 is the best thing that could ever happen to the best of the rest Non AQ schools. With BCS money and a good television contract, these schools only get better. BCS teams dont like playing the list I just put up there, because they play great football. How did some of those teams fare yesterday? Hawaii beat Pac 12 Colorado, BYU beat SEC Ole Miss, Houston beat Pac 12 UCLA, Boise State beat SEC Georgia. I think the BIG 12 survives and thrives and all these schools keep the BIG 12 as an AQ conference to be reckoned with for years to come. Please OU, Texas, OKstate and Texas Tech, go to the PAC 16. But dont be surprised if the new BIG 12 makes you look bad in bowl games and wins a few national championships in the coming years."

LogicMan 11 years, 3 months ago

If the current Big12-? doesn't hold together, and expand, and we get left out of the Pac-16 and the Big Ten does nothing, then yes, this is a decent option. And better than the Big East, in my not so humble opinion. Football matters.

Bring in most, if not all of the MWC, BYU, and cherry pick a few more. And move the headquarters back to KC or possibly Denver.

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 3 months ago

Several problems with your post.

First off the likelihood of this "new" Big 12 keeping its AQ BCS is 0%. The BCS bid goes out the window without UT, OU, period. Simple as that, not even an argument right there- this is a verified fact.

Second, the tv contract is constituant upon the current- 10 Big 12 members (including A&M, but will probably be held up with OU and UT) being the televised product. That's like a Lexus selling a top of the line vehicle and then giving the buyer a 1989 Mazda... Meaning there is nothing to offer these other schools from a money standpoint, a tv contract standpoint, recruiting standpoint either as that "new" conference you proposed is a combination of trash conferences like the MVC, and Mountain West. Not going to happen, not in a million years... Pigs flying, driving, and becoming extinct will happen before this ever happens and then this still won't be a possibility.

Last, KU would lose all recruiting ability in both sports no linger bring in a major conference.

So, if we were to have our program suffer complete demise and want to compete on a level with Missouri state then this might be a possibility, but there is a 0.00% chance of this.


142466 11 years, 3 months ago

This plan, and the BE option, are Options C & D. for us.

BE is the better of the two, short-term. But Self & Danny both surely know that we park in the BE, for sure, for only 1 to 3 years. Then when the BE implodes the east coast scramble commences. Or should I say the resolution of the scramble is revealed to the public? For the B12 fiasco will have opened the eyes of the east coast egg heads. Mommy was right--no good comes to those who tarry.

The other option, the one posted on (and probably by) ESPN - to create a new 16 member BCS conference, mostly in the Mountain Time Zone, is a short & long term step-up for most of the schools he lists. But not for us. We're higher academically than those on the list. And we excell on the hardwood. They mostly seek glory on the pig iron. KU, though could be the kingpin in this collection of wannabes. No more bowing to UT and OU. The mountain States, together with their flagship schools, are growing. Nice to see something in the USA growing. This plan, or something similar, could be a long-term winner. Of course, in the long-term we're all.........

The PAC 16 is Option A. But it's probably too late. The dining car is now closed.

KU & Mizzou, along with the Irish & another school of their choosing, to the B10, is option B. But reservations for this dining car are not yet being taken.

So, we're back to Options C & D.

Maybe the House, Senate, & Prez O will put the worms back in the can. Or will they find another can to open?

Hank Cross 11 years, 3 months ago

By Boren's timeline, the B12 may have less than 24 hours left. If the P12 expansion goes through expect the BE to be on the horn before the body is cold. Last year the BE already approved KU, KSU, MU, and yes even ISU as members.

I expect that the BE will have to be very proactive to scare off raids by the SEC, ACC, and B1G. Even though TCU took ISU's spot, don't be surprised if MU is that it better make sure that it gets its SEC inviteior a call to ISU will be made is short order.

Contrary to what many here are saying, the BE has strengths that are being overlooked. First, ESPN has dumped 100s of millions into Big Monday and it's not going to let the BE and the B12 both disappear. Second, Georgetown is not going to go quitely to the A-10. Finally ND has every motivation in the world to keep the BE alive as a place to park the rest of their teams. As long as they have a place for them, the longer ND can keep its FB independence.

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 3 months ago

10 million minimum, after the addition of 5 news teams the revenue gets shared with 22 teams instead of 17...

This would be a last ditch effort, and a terrible outcome.

AZHawk72 11 years, 3 months ago

"Beebe, I'm sorry, but you need to sit this one out. We need a war-time consigliere on this one."

Well, duh!

We had an excellent opportunity to start the ball rolling toward its inevitable conclusion--16 team leagues, but instead we had to pull the "chicken little" routine and lose the whole league. Nice work, Beebe, due to your incompetence, there won't be any need to fire you.

Okay, Texas, you killed the league, you ran off Nebraska and Texas A&M with your wonderfully self-serving ESPN contract. For that offense, you're gone! Okay, cahones-less presidents, get busy and vote them out for destroying your league. You are supposed to be "leaders," yet you can't spell proactive let alone be it.

Kansas to the east--won't work. Kansas to the west--won't work. Who wants to watch a PAC 16 game that ends at 12:00 on a Thursday night? Oh, by the way, I live out here and they only play in pairs--always Thursday and Saturday. Oh, excuse me, when you play your travelling "mate," the game could be Wednesday, Saturday, or Sunday.

So, once again, here is my updated version on what to do, which is bouncing around the internet under my various names:


Kansas Kansas-St. Missouri Iowa-St. Air Force Colorado-St. Cincinnati Louisville


Oklahoma Oklahoma-St. Texas-Tech Baylor Houston Southern Meth TCU Tulsa

The alternative for the north--BYU or Boise-St. The Alternative for the south--choose among Memphis, Rice, New Mexico, Louisiana Tech, etc.

How about going on the attack, coming-up with a 16-team league, and being proactive for a change. We actually have powerhouse football and basketball teams--this configuaration attempts to add to both. Lets get it done and quit living in fear of others' intentions!

jay381 11 years, 3 months ago

With all due respect, I lived in OKC for years. OU and TX may fight like cats and dogs on the field, however; to think for one minute David Boren would accept anything like this without TX is a pipedream. Frankly at OU decisions are made by a committee of one and unlike many Ivy League pin head Presidents, this man bleeds Crimson blood. He is a pro active member of the entire university and a great booster of competitive athletics.

I currently live in Memphis and my only response to including Memphis is OMG. Not no but H____ no. That would be lowering the standards to the depths lower than I even want to consider. The proud KU in the same league with a two bit city overblown junior college with a tradition of sanctions.

Angus0199 11 years, 3 months ago

What a post!!! Glad to finally see someone on here w/some B@LL$. Make it happen Brother. Makes me glad to be a Hawk.

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