Kansas State defeats Kansas, 59-7

  • 6:30 p.m., Oct. 14, 2010
  • David Booth Kansas Memorial Stadium, Lawrence, KS

Friday, October 15, 2010

Jayhawks lay egg; Fans beat it early in lopsided loss to Wildcats

Kansas State running back Daniel Thomas leaves Kansas safety Olaitan Oguntodu in the dust during the third quarter, Thursday, Oct. 14, 2010 at Kivisto Field.

Kansas State running back Daniel Thomas leaves Kansas safety Olaitan Oguntodu in the dust during the third quarter, Thursday, Oct. 14, 2010 at Kivisto Field.



KU football vs. KSU 2010

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Videos from the Jayhawks' game against Kansas State on Thursday, October 14, 2010.

Maybe they were just trying to appease Kansas University coach Turner Gill and his 10 p.m. curfew. Or, perhaps, the KU student section simply had seen enough.

Either way, with about 8:10 remaining in the second quarter of Thursday’s 59-7 thrashing by Kansas State, the first fans started fleeing for the exits.

Thousands more followed, and, by the end of the third quarter, KU’s home stadium looked like the Memorial Stadium of old. The funny thing about it, though, was that very few of the fans who left were old enough to remember when Kansas football looked this bad.

“The game is played between the lines,” senior safety Olaitan Oguntodu said. “Your assignment is taken care of in practice, and our coaches make sure we know what to expect. It’s up to us as players to take on the challenge and play.”

What kicked off as a key clash between in-state rivals with plenty on the line turned into a coming-out party for the Kansas State offense — 460 yards, including 276 rushing — and a second-straight laugher for the Jayhawks, who have been outscored, 114-14, in their past two games.

“Everything we practiced, they did,” linebacker Steven Johnson said. “They just executed, and we didn’t. I don’t even know what to say. Coaches put us in position to make plays, and we just didn’t.”

It really doesn’t get any deeper than that. Despite having 12 days to prepare — five more than a normal week — and welcoming an in-state rival into their home stadium, the Jayhawks showed more signs of a team getting worse than a team getting better.

Asked if the extra time to prepare for K-State was good for the Jayhawks, Johnson was direct.

“I thought it helped,” he said. “I felt fine going into this game. I felt re-energized. But, I don’t know. I don’t know.”

Seven penalties for 76 yards was only part of the equation. There also were two KU fumbles, an interception in the red zone and a second-straight game with the offense scoring just one touchdown. Even that came at the most hopeless of times, with Kansas State already leading, 52-0, with 2:06 to play in the game.

“We didn’t execute, on offense and defense, what we needed to do,” Gill said. “The basic things, blocking, tackling, running and catching, throwing the football, executing the plays, executing what you need to do. It was so huge on defense to make sure we tackled well and created turnovers, and we did neither.”

Added receiver Daymond Patterson of KU’s miscues: “Some of the mistakes we’re making, you learn about not making those in pee-wee football.”

One of the best moments of the game for the KU offense, which finished with 331 total yards, came on a wild scramble from quarterback Jordan Webb in which he twice fought off being sacked and made a two-handed chest pass that Bill Self would’ve been proud of for a completion to Erick McGriff. Of course, even that play was not without its downfall, as starting lineman Sal Capra went down and was helped off the field. He did not return.

Four plays later, KSU’s Stephen Harrison — five tackles, one fumble recovery and an interception — scooped up a James Sims fumble and raced 85 yards for a touchdown that made it 45-0.

The Jayhawks (2-4 overall, 0-2 Big 12) gained yards and first downs throughout the second half. But after each one, the only thing that came to mind was that old joke about the tree falling in the forest and no one being around to hear it.

Following the loss, Gill stuck to his guns and talked about how his team needed to keep working hard, continue to get better and to find a way to execute better. That much is obvious. So, too, is the harsh reality Gill currently is facing.

“Right now, we’re not a very good football team,” he said. “That’s the reality of it at this point in time.”


KSA_21_3503 11 years, 8 months ago

I thought they did pretty well for a middle school team.

bad_dog 11 years, 8 months ago

You know that because you hang out by the playground, 21_3503?

patmat 11 years, 8 months ago

What were you watching? This is football. The game requires aggression. All of this fluffy stuff is not working - and it will not work. Anyone who is getting paid 10 million had better perform or get the hell (yes, hell) out of the way. All of us KU fans comprehend and can accept a losing season . But we expect a group of young men capable of actually playing the game. All of the business last year with Mangino not being "nice" etc is ridiculous. The people who put on those jerseys are young "men" not little boys. Forget the concept of actually winning a game. Given the schedule left -- that is very probably impossible. I am praying that the televised games left will be unscheduled. Actually watching is too horrible and embarrassing. If Gill is worth 10M then I'm worth 100M. I'm a lawyer grandmother and I guarantee that I could coach the team better than what I've seen. It looked like a group of middle school kids -- playing against a college team. Losing is one thing -- but slaughter? Gill and his staff need to leave immediately -- and no payout either. No performance --- no pay.

Greg Lux 11 years, 8 months ago

Growing pains is right... just growing in the wrong way. I hate to see all the years of rebuilding our football program go down the drain like this. I wish there was an answer for this but the only ones that come to mind are just band-aids on a stroke victim.. The team is dying hurry before the program is dead also.

Eric Williams 11 years, 8 months ago

Hate to remind you but this is a rebuilding year for a program that is still in rebuilding mode.

One BCS win and one good season (2007) does not make for a powerhouse program.

We lost all-time leaders at KU in Reesing, Meier and Briscoe, along with clubhouse leaders Sharp and Stuckey.

KU has never been a football program that simply reloads and bounces back from that. If you were expecting a 7-5 or 8-4 season then you set yourself up for this fall.

Bear86 11 years, 8 months ago

I agree with you that it is a rebuilding year but you can not tell me this performance (& NDSU, Baylor) is acceptable. I'm all for giving a new coach a chance but after last night I'm wondering how recruiting will go. 59-7 ???? We weren't playing OU or Neb. This game was more painful (especially at home) than the Baylor game.

shimjhawk 11 years, 8 months ago

Bear is exactly correct. I tried to be patient. Heck I even still think T Gill is a great human being and tremendous role model. I wouldn't even be upset to lose on the road to Baylor or at home to KState. But we were flat out embarrassed. We weren't even in these ball games at halftime. We played without much emotion against a rival in front of the home crowd. We continue to make dumb mistakes, penatlies and turnovers. These are direct reflections on the coaching in my opinion. Baylor and KState are good but not great teams and we got our doors blown off by both teams. We are the laughing stock of the Big 12. On the radio this morning in Denver they are already chalking up a victory vs KU for CU, saying KU "looks horrific". We may not have been great under Mangino, but he fielded competitve and inspired teams. We wouldn't have the talent level of others but we wouldn't be afraid to hit them in the mouth. Other teams respected us the last few years and now we are just a joke (see Baylor reaction a few weeks ago). Very pathetic right now and the bad part about it is, we will have to give Gill 2 more years because we probably can't afford to buy him out since we just cut Perkins and Mangino nice paychecks. Sad, sad day indeed.

Ed Brown 11 years, 8 months ago

As a cancer survivor I remember "growing pains" and none of it was good.

Joe Baker 11 years, 8 months ago

We are in the Toilet Bowl- I'm sick of the stink and it's going to take time but it seems that signs of improvement would be showing at this point. This loss is beyond words and there are problems not being addressed!

Come on Gill and Team, get it together...let's salvage something. This is one bowl I'd like to get out of ASAP!

Pure D1 embarrassment! Freaking laughing stock of the B12.

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 8 months ago

This reminds me of my time at KU, was something to get through before basketball started.

Dan Harris 11 years, 8 months ago

jhawk7782- I was there 78-83 those were rough times bit it was fun watching K Bell and Seuer. Went down to Birmingham for the Hall of Fame Bowl but that was about the only decent year that we had.

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 8 months ago

K.Bell...That's a name from the past. Good memory on your part.

Tom McPhillips 11 years, 8 months ago

What do you people expect?? Coach Gill has a long way to go and obviously a lot more to learn about division 1A coaching.

Mangino had coached on a "National Championship" team and tried to bring that to Kansas, winning a BCS bowl game in the process with great coaching and some good players. He was run out of town because of a few narcissistic whiner sissy boys who didnt like being yelled and cursed at. (BooHoo....) That clown of an AD allowed those sissies to dictate the firing of their own coach!!! It serves them right if they don't win another game all year...

4jhawks4ku 11 years, 8 months ago

That team looked completely uncoached. No energy no enthusiasm. No tackling,and shying away from contact. Put the names back on the jerseys. The lack of effort was sickening to watch. Total embarrassment. That game killed us for recruiting. They need a visit from Riggo, Gayle, Hadl.

leonard 11 years, 8 months ago

"No tackling,and shying away from contact...The lack of effort was sickening to watch."

Amen to that.

A team can get out-coached and out-played but there is absolutely no excuse for this shameless lack of manhood by the Hawks.

plotku 11 years, 8 months ago

I have coached and tought kids that defense is about controlled agression, or controlled rage or anger. And that same thing could be said about the play in the trenches. But I do have to say "Attitude reflects leadership" and right now our teams attitude on the field reflects the leadership of the coaches. It's light and soft and "we'll just work hard and things will get better" There is no fire on this team, and it is a direct reflection of their leader.

Maracas 11 years, 8 months ago

Gill and his staff should be working for minimum wage until they prove they can actually coach. What they seem to be doing is building fine young men who can't play football. This is all Lew Perkins' fault.

Allin Herring 11 years, 8 months ago

Gill and his staff should not be working at all period! To heck with minimum wages. I have never seen such a poorly coached team even in Pee Wee football!

Ed Brown 11 years, 8 months ago

I am sticking to my initial reaction that some whiney kids ran off a good coach and Lew picked someone he liked that wasn't ready for this caliber of play. Then HCTG brought in young talent from schools that were used to being winners and now has a bunch of young guys speaking out that they can't take the roller coaster ride of this season.

So, now we have a choice of starting over or justing sitting on our hands and waiting for him to get 4 years of recruiting in. The problem is, you can't recruit when you suck as bad as they are this season. It is again the proverbial catch 22.

Sam Constance 11 years, 8 months ago

For a slight twist on that take, I would argue that it was Lew himself that ran off the coach. If you remember, it was Lew (excuse me, the athletic department) that first released the news about the controversy.

It struck me as something they did because Lew saw an opportunity to fire a coach he didn't like and do it "with cause" so he could get out of paying him the full value of his contract buyout.

Rather than stand pat, give Mangino one more season to see if he could turn things around while they looked for an ideal replacement, they rushed to release the info and put Mangino in a tough spot so that they could fire him.

I don't think getting rid of Mangino was necessarily the wrong decision, but the method was downright terrible. They should have had a respectable choice lined up before they decided he should be out. So far, Turner Gill is not looking like a respectable choice.

KU_FanSince75 11 years, 8 months ago

I have seen a lot of football in my time and I am trying to think if I ever, ever, saw a more beat down than last night's game. Maybe the KU/Nebraska games of old when Tom Osbourne was coaching. I guess we won't have to worry about the Huskers after this year, huh? Can you imagine the PR for season tickets going into next year? Oh, my gosh! I don't think fans want to see games like we saw last night. Really embarrassing---not much to say.

KCMOhawk 11 years, 8 months ago

"Can you imagine the PR for season tickets next year"!!! You got that right for sure, Let alone since the prices have been increasing every year since 07 and increasing a little to quickly if you ask me. The "family" plan has increased I believe $100.00 to $200.00 since I went to the games in 08' Not very family friendly...........Hopefully Osborne will take it easy on Gill and stay in the double digits when we visit........

Dan Harris 11 years, 8 months ago

I don't think their going to forget about the 77 we hung on the a couple of years ago. I'm afraid were going to see a score that makes yesterday look like a close game!

jhawkrx10 11 years, 8 months ago

Yes Gill's tactics may be different, especially compared to Mangino's and I'm not about to argue that they'll work because we have no idea if they will or not. But before everyone goes and throw him under the bus, give this some consideration...

--The team that he took over as head coach LOST their last 7 GAMES last year. --On top of that, most of the top skill players (Reesing, Briscoe, Meier, Sharp, Stuckey, etc) from last year either graduated or left early leaving a rather empty cupboard for Gill to start with --The players that did come in this year were primarily Mangino recruits that Gill and his staff had to go quickly visit in the week or two between his hiring and signing day --No matter how good (or bad) a coach, execution comes down to the players on the field. Steven Johnson and Olaitan Oguntodu are both quoted saying almost exactly this in the article we are posting on. You can't blame Gill for the fumbles at crucial times, the interception in the end zone, the missed tackles that led to big plays, etc. --Bill Snyder (worshipped by most of Manhattan) won 1 game his first year in Manhattan--granted they were worse off to start than we were, but Gill's already doubled that total. --Another example, Kirk Ferentz, regarded as many as an NFL caliber coach, won 1 game in his first season at Iowa after taking over (4-19 through 2 seasons)--then he went 7-5 in his 3rd season (with an Alamo Bowl victory) and 11-1 in his 4th season and led the Hawkeyes to the Orange Bowl

Give Gill another 2 years and if he hasn't gotten his act together, then we can call for his head...until then, be prepared for some troublesome times

hawk316 11 years, 8 months ago

You're being way too reasonable, Jhawkrx10, and your analysis makes much too much sense. Are you trying to say that Gill can't turn around a football program in six games? I want my happy meal, and I want it NOW!

Maracas 11 years, 8 months ago

There's turning around a football team and at least getting effort out of them, and then there's a football team that doesn't improve or even give good effort. The latter is what Gill has given us. In fact, one could make the argument that the team has regressed since the NDSU loss.

Gregor Southard 11 years, 8 months ago

KU had a chance to win all but one of those games. Every program has to replace star players every year. KU just lost two games by a total of 100 points to 2 teams they supposedly had a chance to beat. This is not what rebuilding looks like

mtdewjunkie 11 years, 8 months ago

all but 1 of what games? from last year? really? what games were you watching? i guess you saw missouri and missed ou, texas, tech, and nebraska.

KCMOhawk 11 years, 8 months ago

Hawk316 Turn around a football program?? Let alone the talent he is working with he, himself is failing coaching-game planing-strategy-time management. He and coaching staff have repeatedly failed. They had two weeks to game plan for this game, two weeks after getting destroyed 55-7. It was an all around disaster, not just the players, and it starts at the top.

Rick Arnoldy 11 years, 8 months ago

"You can't blame Gill for the fumbles at crucial times, the interception in the end zone, the missed tackles that led to big plays, etc"

Yes, you can. Discipline and technique are covered in practice (or should be, at least).

Doug Merrill 11 years, 8 months ago

Nope, Ohio, you can't. These guys have had spring practice and the autumn and daily practices. You don't think that how to hold a football hasn't come up?

The players have it right and you have it wrong. You get on the field and you do the job. You get into practice and the coach AND you do the job. The "you" part hasn't been working.

Sam Constance 11 years, 8 months ago

Clearly, it hasn't come up in a way that's getting through to the players.

And that's a coach's job, plain and simple.

Rick Arnoldy 11 years, 8 months ago

I'm sure it did come up. But it didn't sink in. That's coaching.

KSseahawk 11 years, 8 months ago

I'll wager that the examples you gave above, those teams were at least competitive. I haven't seen this team compete since the GA Tech game. 12 days to prepare for your in-state rival at home on a Thursday night when everyone in the conference will be watching and that's what we're treated too? Terrible performance by the players and the coaches.

Brashears was showing some fight until Turner tried to calm him down and then didn't let him return anymore kicks. What's going on and who is in charge??? Turner looks like his team does...completely lost.

Give them back their cell phones and let them hang out with girls, after all I thought he was trying to develop men...perhaps a better way to develop men is to show that you trust them. Not to treat them like they are in high-school.

KUAlum2000 11 years, 8 months ago

Look on the other side of the field. Snyder came in last year with Prince's players and did ok (beat us at their place when we had a pretty good team). At least they put a product on the field instead of fold before the halfway point of the season. This whole year is total deja vu from the Mason to Allen transition. Too bad we never learned from that.

jayhawkintx73 11 years, 8 months ago

This isn't about turning them around. THey've gotten worse than when the lost to NDSU. They don't have emotion. 55-7 adn 59-7? They're not playing hard. The coach is the reason for this. If we would have lost to Baylor 42 - 27, then I'd say you're right. If we would have lost to K-State last night 31-21, then I'd say you're right. But 59-7 and 55-7 in back to back games to teams that aren't EVEN RATED in the top 25? You're not being reasonable. You must also believe that the Obama's stimulus package worked, because we have almost 10% unemployment after more than one trillion spent. You obviously must be one of these, well I feel this, or I feel that kind of person who uses emotion to form an opinion.

KansasFarmDog 11 years, 8 months ago

House Republicans that voted for the stimulus package: 0 House Republicans that have taken credit for the economic bills they opposed: 128 Verdict: Guilty

Danny Hernandez 11 years, 8 months ago

I agree and wish everyone would just cool it and settle down....damn, I know the losses suck but it is what it is and we just have to be patient...I doubt Gill and staff like losing and are just as embarrassed as we, the fans are! So please stfu

Roy Scherff 11 years, 8 months ago

Im guessing by 2012 we will be an improved football team. we still won't be playing 500 ball but there will be games that we are in to the end and at least provide the opposition with a little bit of resistance.

minnhawk84 11 years, 8 months ago

Hmmmm. If Nebraska put 48 on KSU, and KSU put 59 on us, doesn't it look like we will lose to the Huskers somewhere around say, 100?

142466 11 years, 8 months ago

Since Nebraska beat KSU by 35 and KSU beat KU by 52, will Nebraska beat KU by. . .? Or since this is the final year that Nebraska will be playing KU, will Nebraska run up the score really big?

Jeff Cuttell 11 years, 8 months ago

No they won't.

1) They play at home. Which means there are probably fans in the stands that will play for the Huskers that day

2) Osborne will not want Pelini to embarrass Gill.

3) When Martinez goes out after a comfortable lead, Cody Green will come in and fumble the ball to the Jayhawks for some cheap scores.

4jhawks4ku 11 years, 8 months ago

I can take losing if the team gives a good effort, looks coached, gets off blocks, tackles, doesnt cough up the ball for touchdowns, and takes pride in low penalties. If they can do that I'm supportive.

Stephen Johnson 11 years, 8 months ago

This is poor coaching. The special teams were terrible. The offense shot themselves in the foot over and over with penalties. The defense was poorly schemed. I felt sorry for the fans and players. This coaching staff has embarrassed this university.

jchief40 11 years, 8 months ago

Poor coaching? Or poor talent? I think our coaching staff is solid going forward. This year is like the 2009 KC Chiefs.

jayhawkinATL 11 years, 8 months ago

Our players just don't give a $hit. They just look happy to be there.

JaHawk4Life 11 years, 8 months ago

Losing to supierior teams is one thing but getting humiliated week after week is completely unacceptable. I hope no more KU football games are televised this year.

Nos08 11 years, 8 months ago

Did anyone else hear Coach Mangino laughing last nite??

Jaminrawk 11 years, 8 months ago

It's one thing to say "wait and see" but allowing 50+ points and only scoring 7 points in the last two games against middle-to-lower of the pack teams in the Big XII is just pathetic. Central Florida put up a better fight against KSU and they were on the road. This team is just dreadfully bad in all facets of the game and that is definitely the coaches' faults. I didn't expect them to win a lot this year, but it's not too much to expect that this team wouldn't get humiliated.

DocBean 11 years, 8 months ago

THIS is how we play after a bye week????!!! With an extra week of preparation I expected a competitive game.

I'm over this coaching staff already. Do we not have scholarship players out there? If they're getting a free ride they should at least be able to play with one of the worst teams in the Big XII. I think scholarships need to be removed from some of these kids.

Season's Over. Bring on Late Night.

slantrox 11 years, 8 months ago

Playing nice with others doesn't work in FOOTBALL and WAR! REEVALUATE GILL! Either he gets tough on players and assistance or he becomes an assistant for a Big 10 school!

Good coaches come in to decent programs and do decent until they get 'their' system in place! We were decent....that leaves either a bad coach or a premature shift to a poor system has already taken place!

KSUFan 11 years, 8 months ago

Coach Gill reminds me of Ron Prince. He tried to be friends with his team and not a leader. I think Coach Gill is a great person but you can't be afraid to discipline the team and staff. Sure I liked the game but I support any Kansas team and I want KU to be successful with all but KSU. My advice, is to cut your losses, now we know why NEB didn't give Coach Gill the nod.

William James 11 years, 8 months ago

That is not fair to Ron Prince. Ron Prince went almost .500 in his time at KSU including a bowl appearance in his first season, as well as two wins over Texas when they were in the Top Ten. Those are accomplishments that Gill will likely never come closing to touching while he is at KU. If you compare the two, Prince looks like a damn good coach.

Matt Kenton 11 years, 8 months ago

Also reminds me of Herm Edwards taking over the Chiefs. He was a "players' coach" too. Also, I saw 92 year old Snyder get in players' faces at least twice. At one point # 20 (DJ Beshears?) was getting fired up, and Gill immediately ran over on the sideline to calm him down. What a joke.

Jeff Cuttell 11 years, 8 months ago

I think Prince was the complete opposite. He was the coach that instituted those physical tests no one could pass. He was the my way or the highway guy who people didn't buy into. Gill is the touchy feely guy people haven't bought into yet. They might not either. But he needs his players first

slantrox 11 years, 8 months ago

I am SO sick of the football season being over by Late Night!

GET TOUGH THIS WEEK GILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We like you, your a nice guy, smart, funny.......but either your inexperience or falure to see what everyone else sees is driving us into a third world college football team again!

I'll give you one week and one more chance to win me and many others back!

Now we may know exactly why Lew headed for the exits early! (just like the rest of us)

troutsee 11 years, 8 months ago

When Snyder came to KSU, the cupboard was bare. When Mangino came to KU, the cupboard was bare. But, I am not so sure the cupboard was bare for Gill and staff. However, the Mangino staff did a piss poor job of recruiting the front 7 on defense, especially linebackers, and the O-line. Mangino's staff seemed to concentrate on recruiting wide receivers and D-backs.

Torbush told us we were going to have an attacking defense. Bull. It's still the same old wait and read defense of old with no backfield penetration and no int's or breakups in the secondary. I still see bubble screens worked repeatedly against our defense, a weakness evident as early as the So. Miss game and yet there has been no correction.

On Offense, our QB is too short and not a dual threat, seldom keeps the ball on the read option making that play predictable and worthless, our O-line sucks and has all year, our bubble screens stink, and we make too many penalties. We also need to develop big play capability but we simply may not have the players to do this. If I was Gill, I'd seriously think about giving Pick another chance.

On special teams, it is just a matter of time until long striding Rojas gets another punt blocked. For heavens sakes Gill, put Rojas back 17 yards.

DallasHawk 11 years, 8 months ago

I don't understand the Punting style either. What difference does the Spread formation make when you don't have time to punt to get your coverage down the field. This whole thing is maddening.

Eric Williams 11 years, 8 months ago

That's right, Gill's cupboard was stocked full.

Why isn't he playing Reesing? And where are Meier and Briscoe at? They should at least be catching a few passes. And don't get me started on Stuckey. He's playing like he's not even out there...

We have a 6'3" WR, and we're forced to play Patterson and Beshears (5'9" and 5'8"). Webb holds on to the ball too long (this IS Gill and Long's fault as they should be developing the young QB).

Rojas sucks. Mangino left Gill with no Offensive skill players that logged minutes (except for Opurum, who lost his spot b/c he was unable to practice due to injury).

And for that matter, Mangino's defense didn't stop anyone last year and we have the same guys minus Stuckey. What did you expect?

troutsee 11 years, 8 months ago

I expected a lot more than what we are getting. That may have been unrealistic but the cupboard was far from bare.

DocBean 11 years, 8 months ago

Gill need to learn how to slow a game down. He needs to teach his kids how to run out the clock. That way we'll be losing by 10 instead of 50.

If you have less talent, you need to slow the game down. Less possessions will make a HUGE difference. Look at it like Basketball, the teams KU has a problem with are the teams that can slow everything down. The faster you play the better team will always outperform the lesser team.

If he could at least get games into the 4th quarter within a score or two, then one big play could turn things our way. I'm sick of the game being over by half time.

mtdewjunkie 11 years, 8 months ago

agreed...the no-huddle spread is not going to work with this team. i thought we were going to a more conventional offense this year. perhaps some 2 tight end sets...which could also help the o-line in passing situations. sending 4-5 out into the pattern on every down is going to get webb killed.

gongs4ku 11 years, 8 months ago

I got confused and thought this game was on Saturday. Looks like ignorance was bliss.

GridironHawk 11 years, 8 months ago

Don't worry. The players were confused too...

James Moore 11 years, 8 months ago

Embarrassing!! Thats all I have to say. Somebody asked me was it the coaching or is it the talent. I said a little of both, but honestly, I really have to blame the coaching staff the most. I don't think we are as talented as Baylor or Kstate, but it is also not to the point where we have the talent level of a North Dakota State either. Our coaching staff has gotten our players up for 1 game, the GT game and thats it. How can you not motivate a team for an in-state rival like KSU? I sort of understand Baylor on the road being a tough one, but come on. Does this guy remind anybody else of Terry Allen? I know thats blasphemy at this point in time, but really, nice guys finish last in this business.

Bill Kackley 11 years, 8 months ago

Score Snyder 2 Gil 0 When Gil wasn't smart enough to keep Chris Dawson, KSU grabbed him in a hurry.

tis4tim 11 years, 8 months ago

Fear of failure is a great motivator and I don't think these players have it. I'm not suggesting that Gill become an ogre on the sidelines and resort to physical threats or anything to develop that killer instinct, but if the players don't, on some level, fear their coach and the repercussions of poor play or what may happen to them if they miss an assignment, I don't think they'll ever perform the way they should.

I have my own thoughts about Gill's coaching, but if players like Steven Johnson think that the coaching is fantastic, that Gill is not the problem, and that they were given the correct blueprint to defeat KSU, but they just didn't execute, then they need to be benched for players who will execute. Somehow, I'm just not buying the notion that it's all on the players.

treidy 11 years, 8 months ago

tis4tim just summarized perfectly the difference between Mangino and Turner Gill and why Mangino's way was the RIGHT way in this brutal and physical game of football.

bigtex 11 years, 8 months ago

Gil plays the a$$ kissers, he loves their nose up his behind. Gil has his a$$ kissers talk to the press to cover his behind.

KURiggins 11 years, 8 months ago

I think by the end of the game we had only gained 76 yards rushing. I think Jordan Webb did a decent job considering he has had/had no run support. And if anyone caught it Webb threw a beautiful pass early in the game, after a Sands fumble had made it 17 - 0 and Christian Matthews flat out dropped it. Gotta make that catch. Two RB's fumble one of them setting up a drive, the other K-State just took back to the house. You look at the Georgia Tech game and its really the only game we had both a running game and a passing game. What it tells me, is the OL, really about the only part of our offensive team that has had any significant playing time is creating zero push. They make stupid penalties. They do not sustain blocks and they have zero attack attitude. Which just kills your running game. You have to have that attack, attack and keep attacking attitude on OL to be successful. Not just mediocre with zero attitude and dumb penalities. I mean our first drive and what did we have, like 3 false starts? Come on OL, you know the snap count. There is NO reason you should be moving before the snap count. Gill must have realized he had inhereted a lousy OL, that is why I believe his first five recruits for next year are OL. I just would not have guessed, at this point the worst part of our offense game after game is our OL. I do not believe Webb is the problem.I see him learning a little more each game..when he is not about to be destroyed because of a lack of blocking. Or because of our OL has dumb penalties that put him in unwinnable situations 3rd and 10 ..or worst 3rd and 16. Anyway, we must remember this is only Gill's sixth game as our HC. Give him at least two years then it will be easier to evaluate his abilities. Let him get some decent Offensive Lineman

bigtex 11 years, 8 months ago

Webb looked poor with his throws down feild most of the time. He can only do one thing throw the short bubbles, short outs and still had the ball batted down when he was out side of the pocket. He tries to act cocky and has nothing to show for it. He had alot of time to get rid of the ball but held it forever. His delivery is low ,not good for a short Qb

chriskoenigs 11 years, 8 months ago

a coach is paid millons dollors to putand seem that aour cach is failing at this fans in the stadium

Jayhawk1116 11 years, 8 months ago

Too early to be drinkin', man. Even after that loss.

Dan Harris 11 years, 8 months ago

Hope your in pre-school because that has to be the the most atrocious spelling job on this site ever! Spell check dude!

Dan Harris 11 years, 8 months ago

That was meant for the below post,sorry!

chriskoenigs 11 years, 8 months ago

a coach is paid millons dollors to putand seem that aour cach is failing at this fans in the stadium

DocBean 11 years, 8 months ago

I tried reading this a few times. I'm still not sure what he's saying. Learn to write kid.

KURiggins 11 years, 8 months ago

Oh I guess I forgot. Angus Q I know put us over 100 yards while we were playing the K-State scrubs. These guys will probably not have gametime any more this year. That is the only reason we got over 100 yards in the game. It did not happen till the very end against their scrubs. Against their starting defense our OL was pathetic. I knew our defense would be bad because we are so thin everywhere. However, it looks like Toben O. has promise as a LB. Too early to tell, but I do believe he had a QB pressure or two. But the OL is in my opinion the worst part of our team and the biggest dissapointment, considering they all have playing time under their belt. I thought they would be our strength. Instead I feel they have been our worst enemy. Drive killers.

Chris Bailey 11 years, 8 months ago

Yeah what the heck happened to the OL? We heard all summer how good and how improved this bunch would be and they suck! I would be embarrassed to say I were a member of the OL! They can't sustain blocks nor open up running lanes. Hawkinson was being talked about his skills and potential to play on sundays. Hell he nor any of the line deserve to play on Saturdays! Bench em all put in the Freshman! They can't do any worse and maybe we can get them some playing time so next year isn't a lost cause like this one!

741hawk 11 years, 8 months ago

Last fall, prior the Colorado game, Lew had the audacity to hold a team meeting in the middle of the season and undermined one of the best (if not the best) football coaches KU has ever had. (The Phat Man "lost the team" based on Lew's actions; and, combined with Sparky's undisclosed injury, we didn't win another game.)

Then, without considering any other candidate, Lew interviewed, hired and over-paid a coach who, in his BEST season, was 5-3 in the MAC. This is totally on Lew.

I was a defender of Lew's until his last year. At that point I realized that it was a zero sum game. For everything good he did, the bad matched it.

This is a sad, sad day for a program that won the Orange Bowl less than three years ago. I'm sickened.

Brak 11 years, 8 months ago

You do realize that Mangino was 2-10 in his first year at KU and didn't win a single conference game. Oh yea and he lost to Kstate that year 64-0. So by that standard Gill has actually had a better start than Mangino. And if you actually believe that it was Lew's fault for the demise of last season I want some of what your are smoking.

shimjhawk 11 years, 8 months ago

come on though, our talent level today (though not great) is light years ahead of what Terry Allen left Mangino with. Your comparing apples to oranges.

mtdewjunkie 11 years, 8 months ago

during manginos first year there were 10 (if i counted correctly) players who spent time with nfl teams. i think you might be a bit off with the "light years ahead of what terry allen left mangino with" comment. there was talent on that team. i posted a link to ku players in the nfl in an earlier post (scroll through my comments it you want to see it)

shimjhawk 11 years, 8 months ago

and that KState team was 11-2 and a top ten team all year. The KState team that whooped us last night is a middle of the pack team as Nebraska showed the nation last week.

Jhawks04 11 years, 8 months ago

I'm not excusing last night's efforts. It was pretty terrible. There were a ton of just missed tackles and opportunities. But I think there are a lot of people out there forgetting just how bad we used to be. Back in 2002 or 2003 (sorry I can't remember the exact year), I watched KSU kill KU 62 to 0 in the freezing drizzle and snow. And yes, I was one of the few people that stayed until the very end of the game. I'm not saying that the on TD was much to hang a hat on last night, but the score definitely could have been worse.

I think it's very apparent we have young freshmen and sophmores in key spots and other teams are going to pick on those the most. I also believe that this season is just going to be a rolloer coaster of ups and downs, mostly downs at this point. And that's OK. This year you have most of the guys who believed (or feared) Mangino's way, and they're all trying to learn a new system now with new rules. It's going to take time for the coaches and players to all get all the same page. I think we have to give Gill at least another season to show what he can do with his own recruiting and getting those young fellas a chance to mature into his way of coaching.

crmsnblu 11 years, 8 months ago

to me simple decisions like no girls after 10, no cursing, and if your a 5 star running back we'll play you at linebacker illustrate great coaching if your trying to lose and create the worst recruiting ploy in the country

Chris Bailey 11 years, 8 months ago

Agreed! How you move your best returning RB to LB and think that is a smart decision is beyond me! Maybe we need to move some LB to OL? Or put the Skilled players on the OL and let them block for this sorry OL we currently have that lays down and does nothing. Maybe then they'd be pissed off and actually do something once they see how much the QB and RB's are being pummeled!

Tony Bandle 11 years, 8 months ago

That's it!! I'm done!! Sell our souls to the Devil and hire Mike Leach.

Payoff Turner and his staff and let "The Leacher" make Kansas football relevant again, if only to keep the basketball program from slipping into a second tier conference.

Kansas Basketball is what I truly care about and this fraud of a football program is threatening it.

FreddyinLA 11 years, 8 months ago

Agree. Leach has proven he can win in the Big 12 South. Go get the guy, NOW.

Lew, the top AD as far a compensation should have had an idea that TTech was having money problems and had to cut Leach loose before the Jan 1 ballon payment.

Words cannot describe last night performance.

shimjhawk 11 years, 8 months ago

I wish you were correct. Leach would make us at least relevant. However, after everything transpired I wonder if he would still be able to recruit? Don't know, but at least the guy can coach his players up.....none of that going on at KU right now.

thomc6 11 years, 8 months ago

Seems to me that the biggest problem is that most of the other teams have much better players. The question is whether Gill can change this and over time convince everyone about the competency of the coaching staff. This cannot be determined for a year or two. So there is no choice now but to hope for and derive some enjoyment from seeing incremental improvements in the team and/or individual players. In other words, adopt an expansion team fan mentality as there is really no other option.

Jared Grillot 11 years, 8 months ago

Boo! Boo! Just freakin' boo all around. Unfortunately, I am one of those Jayhawk alums that lives west of Wichita, which means that I have to listen to all the purple jerks around here for months... yes, it will be months before we have an opportunity to put them back in their place. Everything all over again... fumbles, dropped passes, heck, we even got to burn more time outs because we didn't have the right players on the field... again. Seriously. Definitely expect to see us in ESPN's Bottom 10 again this week.

I have to agree with many on the board, when you have a bye week to prepare, at home, against a rival, who isn't that spectacular, and you fail miserably at every facet of the game including the intangibles like attitude, you either have the worst talent imaginable, an inept coaching staff, or both.

misfire 11 years, 8 months ago

If the coaches were switched and Snyder had been the KU coach, they would have beaten the snot out of KSUck, which is a second rate team at best.

shadowrider 11 years, 8 months ago

If KSU is a 'second rate team', what does that make KU? That 'second rate team' is now 5-1.

crmsnblu 11 years, 8 months ago

shadow reread misfire's post it appears you skimmed and confused yourself. he's saying both teams suck but the ksu coaching is so dominant that that staff could have won big with either set of players

2005grad 11 years, 8 months ago

That is the first time I've heard a KU fan "wish" they had Snyder...

2005grad 11 years, 8 months ago

That is the first time I've heard a KU fan "wish" they had Snyder...

misfire 11 years, 8 months ago

If the coaches were switched and Snyder had been the KU coach, they would have beaten the snot out of KSUck, which is a second rate team at best. Don't tell me that players can't be coached up. Perkins didn't do KU any favors.

Sam Brockert 11 years, 8 months ago

I have been on two national championship teams, wrestling not football but coaching is coaching. One in Junior college the other an NAIA school. Now it is no Div 1, but it is still national championship caliber. Both coaches I had during that time Respected AND feared a little bit. They never did things like Mangino, Mangino just was mean. Which most people have to understand tough and mean are not the same things. Mean can work, in short bursts. Kids can take so much mean before they start to rebel just to spite you. Fear never works as long as respect does. Tough, kids respect, they are disciplined with tough, the are agressive with tough, tough gets them in shape. Tough means you can be a father figure to these kids and have an open office door to them at the same time as kicking their butts in practice until they throw up. If they lose and they gave it their all, work the next week on improving what DID go wrong. If they lose and they look like they don't give a crap or they just quit, like the KSU game, work them 10 times harder than the week before. Make sure they know anything below 100% will not be tolerated. The problem I see is that Gill is neither tough NOR mean. You can't be neither and hope to be competitive. Even in High school that crap wouldn't work. These kids not only have no fear, they have no respect. You don't have to cuss, you don't have to make threating comments. But show some energy, some spark, dont stand there and look unemotional, because that rubs off on your team. Because if the kids, in the end that is ALL they are is kids, feel like they are on a long leash, they will do what comes natural to kids and that is gliding through things.

GridironHawk 11 years, 8 months ago

I think the play that made me the sickest was the fumble recovery for the TD. Yea the game was over but we could have still salvaged the second half and possibly the season. It was obvious KSU had 12 men on the field which would have wiped out the 70 yard fumble recovery and given KU a first down. However, either our coaches had no clue they had 12 men on the field (unacceptable), had no clue the play could be challenged (unacceptable), or had already given up on the players (I don't even want to mention my thoughts on this). Our team has no fight because our coaches have no fight. The one player that showed fight (Beshears) got benched because Gill thought he was too upset. There comes a point where the coach has to show he has a backbone so the players will follow him. Get in the refs face on some of the bad calls and get a personal foul (Self is a great guy too but he's had a Technical or two to fire his teams up).

2005grad 11 years, 8 months ago

If you noticed, even Snyder and the (I guess) defensive coordinator for KSU were FURIOUS they had 12 men on the field, even though they didn't get called for it. Snyder is one of those that regardless of the fumble recovery and touchdown, he will NOT accept stupid mental mistakes like that. If Gill or his staff had a fire in them like that, KU would not have made 1/10 of the mistakes they did last night...

grandpa 11 years, 8 months ago

Troutsee and KU Riggins, I agree with everything you had to say on your po0sts. There is so much going wrong with this team at this point that I am not going to elaborate further on what you two said. I honestly did think before the Kansas State game that we would correct the many mistakes we made in the Baylor game and win the Kansas State game. My wife and I were going to celebrate with our margaritas but that will have to wait.

Brak 11 years, 8 months ago

First of all thanks for all the laughs, after last nights game I really needed it. I'm not going to try and pretend that everything is sunshine and double rainbows in Larryville, but I'm also not threating to throw myselft off a bridge unless they fire Gill like most of you. I don't know what everyones expectations were but I can tell you right now they were way too high.

Have all of you "fans" really forgoten that in Mangino's first year as a coach we were 2-10 (0-8 conference). It took him 4 years to achieve a winning record and you "fans" are ready to fire Gill after 5 games? He hasn't even had a full year to start recruiting the players that would best fit his style of play and considering all of Mangino's players are having to learn a new system and let's not forget all of the injuries.

Now is not the time to be making knee jerk reactions and Gill at the very least deserves a couple of years to bring in his type of players and develop his own scheme before we start calling for his job.

After saying that there are 2 things I am really not liking about this team, 1. Jordan Webb, there is nothing about him that excites me or screams "winning QB". He seems like a Reesing clone with less accuracy and pocket awareness. I really liked what I saw of Pick and think he could bring something different to the table with his feet and ability to take snaps under center which would help our run game (I know he's been hurt but I believe he should get another chance). 2. Speaking of our run game, the playing calling has been terrible. Its last year all over again when on 3rd and long you knew Reesing was going to the shovel pass. It seemed like last night we ran that same run play up the middle or the WR screen and that was about it. It will get better though, I'm not worried, it is just game after all.

GridironHawk 11 years, 8 months ago

Brak... you had me at first but.... I agree Gill needs given a chance to get his players and system in but he also has to start showing some sort of backbone and coaching/motivating ability. This team is much more talented then the team Mangino took over. We should not be losing by 50+ points. Also, Mangino lost 64-0 to a 14th ranked KSU team. Not a middle of the pack (at best) KSU/Baylor team. A knee jerk reaction will not help anything. The damage has already been done to KU football and the best we can hope for is that Gill is the answer and can pull us out of the ashes. No coach wants to coach KU right now... Now the part you really lost me. What exactly did you like about Pick's performance in a 3-6 loss to a FCS team? Webb might not be the answer but even Colt McCoy (or whoever else you want to put here) could not have kept the last two games close. KU has no fight or will to win...

tis4tim 11 years, 8 months ago

Sorry, Brak, but I can't buy the logic of justifying poor play by citing the ignominious achievements of previous coaches.

You don't justify bad behavior by citing other bad behavior. It's a terrible philosophy that creates a losing mindset.

justanotherfan 11 years, 8 months ago

Last night's game really comes down to five plays.

Play 1

0-0. After KU forces a KSU punt. It's 2nd and 4 on the KU 35. KU completes a simple pass to Breshears for a first down. However, it gets called back for clipping. On the very next play, there's a procedure penalty. All of a sudden, KU goes from an apparent 1st and 10 on it's 40 to 2nd and 24 on the 15. That's a huge difference, especially for an offense trying to find itself. Needless to say, a punt resulted.

Play 2

3-0 KSU, but KU is still in the game. Penalties are killing us, but if we can make something happen, this game won't get away. KSU faces a 3rd and 10 from the KSU 28. Force a punt here and KU will get the ball back with a chance to tie or take the lead. Simple out pattern by the receiver and a missed tackle equals 36 yards and a KSU first down in Jayhawk territory. A sure punting situation turns into a first down in KU territory. Cats go in for a touchdown. It's now 10-0.

Play 3

After a good return by Beshears to set up KU near midfield, Deshaun Sands fumbles and KSU returns it deep into KU territory. Just a demoralizing turnover. A few plays later, it's 17-0 and I knew KU wasn't going to win. A young team isn't likely to get out of a three score hole. The only question was whether they would lose by 10 or if it would get out of hand.

Play 4

17-0, KU needs something positive. Another first down around midfield, they dial up a deep route for Christian Matthews. He has it, then drops it. Could've set up a first and goal. If KU gets a TD, it's 17-7 and they aren't dead yet. Instead, it's a nondescript 2nd and 10. Later, KU goes for it on fourth down, K-State takes over at midfield, marches down and makes it 24-0 and the rout is on.

Play 5

31-0 in the second half. K-State has the ball. KU is trying to set the tone for whether this game is a walkover now, or whether they will make the final 55-28 or so. 2nd and 4 from the KSU 32. Isiah Barfield comes up and blows up a little bubble screen with a huge hit. It looks like KU has come out of the lockerroom with some real fire. A late flag and a personal foul sets KSU up near midfield. The fire is gone. With KU looking to set a physical tone, they back off and become timid with the flag. KSU scores a few plays later and the only question now is what the final number will be.

That's the game right there. Five plays. Five mistakes/ missed opportunities/ bad breaks and the game just got away. If there's no clipping, can KU put together a drive and draw first blood? If they force a punt, can they do something offensively? If Deshaun takes care of the ball, can they keep pace with KSU? If Matthews makes that catch, do they go in to make it 17-7? If there's no penalty on that hit, is the final a more respectable number than the absurd 59-7?

The bottom line is that plays weren't made when they needed to be. If any one of those things happen, it might be a whole different ballgame.

Ron Prichard 11 years, 8 months ago

59-7. Eight touchdowns and 1 fieldgoal. Even if you take away five touchdowns we still get beat 24-7. That game was not decided by five plays. It was decided by tackling, effort and execution. KSuck had all three of those. We had none. I have never been more humiliated by a loss than I was last night. We had 12 days to prepare for a team that just got desroyed by Nebraska, is in a rebuilding year with the worst QB in the Big XII, and this is what we get? Completely unacceptable. If you think last night was the result of 5 plays, you are in complete denial.

Dan Harris 11 years, 8 months ago

The game was decided before the kickoff because of who was coaching on our sideline(if you want to call that pile of crap coaching)!

GridironHawk 11 years, 8 months ago

Very good breakdown but to say it comes down to five plays is a bit nice. I have been defending the Hawks all year (first game jitters, USM is good, Griffin III is a stud, it was closer than the final, etc.) but this one I got nothing. This team should never have lost 59-7 to this KSU team no matter what happened. I don't care what the score is or what happens during a game, quitting should never be an option and the players AND COACHES quit. If Gill wants to teach these players a life lesson then he and his coaching staff better learn not to quit themselves...

Ron Prichard 11 years, 8 months ago

"If Gill wants to teach these players a life lesson then he and his coaching staff better learn not to quit themselves..."

Fantastic point!

I am glad he left the starting offense in the game to the end. Not for the points, but because I think he's telling them you need to continue to learn, continue to improve and don't ever quit (although I think many already had quit). The same should have been true for the defense.

khummel60 11 years, 8 months ago

Excellent analysis. Of course there were far more than five "bad" plays, but those five are very representative of why we got blown out last night. Even good teams make mistakes, but they don't make this many. I think its a sign of a poorly coached and undisciplined team. Execution comes from preparation, preparation comes from coaching, and this team clearly wasn't well prepared. I honestly don't know how that's possible coming off a bye week.

Clean up the mistakes and maybe this team will start believing in themselves and start competing. Unfortunately, they have consistently shot themselves in the foot with these mistakes, and won't be competitive until that stops. And the mistakes seem to be getting worse, not better.

You can teach these guys all the poems and catch-phrases you want about believing and visualizing excellence, but if they aren't prepared they just look foolish.

Sam Constance 11 years, 8 months ago

"I don't care WHAT a rebuilding project looks like at the beginning. Unless the team is loaded with nothing but walk-ons and true freshmen, there's no other reason for the major blowouts beyond poor coaching."


This comment completely sums up the way I feel about this coaching staff, and why it aggravates me to no end to watch the people who come on here and give the lame "what do you expect?" and "expectations are too high" or "cupboard was bare" excuses.

Having a "bare cupboard" is an excuse for losing games. If your talent isn't comparable to other teams, then you are likely to lose more games than you win.

That being said, failing to field a competitive team is less about talent and more about putting the players you do have in a position to succeed. Being slower or weaker than your opponent doesn't explain allowing 90 consecutive points to two teams who really aren't that impressive.

Yes, Baylor and KSU are light-years ahead of this year's KU team, but in the grand scheme of things, they are both 6/7 win teams who will scrape into Minor Sponsor Bowl X at the end of the season. I don't know how anyone can have watched the last two games and honestly thought that coaching wasn't a major part of the problem.

To me, that is extreme denial.

steamboat 11 years, 8 months ago

Yea and if KU would of forfeited the score would of been 1-0. The game was more than 5 plays. Give me a break, it was 60 minutes of ass-kicking to a TOTTALLY unprepared team.

vmwskywalk 11 years, 8 months ago

How do you feel about the execution of our football team?

...I'm all for it!

cwind 11 years, 8 months ago

Not going to bash anybody. Last night was pathetic. Mangino's harsh tactics aren't the answer. Gill might be in over his head and too nice a guy. Making Buffalo credible in the MAC is apples, making Kansas credible in the Big 12 is oranges (or lack of since 2008 and hereafter). The team is going the wrong direction. They look NOTHING like they did 4 weeks ago against Georgia Tech. The new AD will evaluate and if he/she is sharp enough, will figure it all out. We need to see MAJOR improvement next year, otherwise, Gill is out.

Dan Harris 11 years, 8 months ago

K-suck will make a name in BB in Kansas for the country to see? Huh? We've been doing that for over 90 years, how many national championships to your kitties have? crickets

Dan Harris 11 years, 8 months ago

K-suck will make a name in BB in Kansas for the country to see? Huh? We've been doing that for over 90 years, how many national championships to your kitties have? crickets

jmsuther 11 years, 8 months ago

I sure wish KU had a coach like Mark Mangino to come and take care of this mess

vmwskywalk 11 years, 8 months ago

Mark Mangino shares a big part of the blame for this mess.

Ron Prichard 11 years, 8 months ago

I have been on here supporting Gill time and again. I still think he has a chance at being a good coach, but it is time to stop comparing this season to Snyder's first or Mangino's first, etc. Bill Snyder took over what was universally considered as the worst football program in college history. Mangino took over for a coach that had not recruited in years and a program that was inept in almost every category, including school support and facilities. KU has the facilities. We have good (not great) recruits. There is absolutely no excuse that is acceptable for what happened last night.

I'm tired of hearing, "I thought we were prepared," "I thought we were ready," "We felt good this week," and especially, "We still have work to do." Hell yes you have work to do!

I want to hear some accountability from the coaches. The players say all the right things, but it doesn't translate to the field. I know there will be growing pains, and honestly, while I want to win, I don't mind losing because I know this is a transition/rebuilding year. What bothers me is that we appear to be getting worse! This is not the same team that beat Georgia Tech. GT is 4-2 (3-1 ACC). The team that took the field last night showed no heart, no effort, and clearly quit in the second half. Carson Coffman threw two TD's and only one incomplete pass!!!! Carson Freaking Coffman!!

We stop GT from running in week two and KSU's vaunted two headed rushing machine of Thomas and Coffman torch us? Oh wait...Coffman isn't a vaunted rusher? He's not even a great passer? Really? We made him look like a Heisman finalist.

When I looked at KSU last night, I saw a mediocre team that was disciplined, focused and gave 100% effort from start to finish on every single play. When I looked at KU, I saw a team that appeared confused, timid, lackluster and uninspired.

Our cupboard may not be full, but it isn't empty. We have good athletes on our team. Where are they? Why aren't they improving. If Gill is supposed to be a master motivator, he better get it going. As I said earlier, I don't mind losing if I see improvement and effort. I saw neither last night and I do mind being completely embarrassed on national TV.

mtdewjunkie 11 years, 8 months ago

i have mentioned this before but in case you have not seen this : i count 10 players from manginos first team in the nfl. there was talent on that team. might turn out that there was more talent on that team than there is on this years roster. coach gill is not doing well...but comparing 02 to this year might be pretty accurate.

shimjhawk 11 years, 8 months ago

Your logic and link you post are very slighted. For starters whom knows if the current players will end up getting a shot with an NFL roster? Secondly, there are many names on your list, whom simply got a look by an NFL team. A lot of those guys were cut and never got another chance. So I don't think you can say that team had tons of talent. To prove my point here are a list of names from your list whom I wouldn't call played in the NFL:

Curtis Ansel, punter, never made an NFL roster Leo Bookman, WR, made 1 practice squad Nick Reid, LB, was put on the Chiefs NFL Europe roster but once the league disentegrated was released by the team Bill Whittemore, QB, never made an NFL roster Greg Cole, LB, never made an NFL roster Brandon Rideau, WR spent 4 yrs in the NFL but only appeared in 2 games as mostly on the practice squad Mark Simmons, WR spent 3 yrs in the NFL, making 1 practice squads Austin Nwabuisi, RB, never made an NFL roster

I'll give you these 2:

Adrian Jones, OL, spent 6 yrs in the NFL David McMillian, DE, spent 3 yrs in the NFL

Look, I'm not trying to deminish anything these guys have accomplished. It's a heck of a lot of work/talent etc even to get a shot at the NFL let alone making a practice squad or active roster. However, let's not act like that 2002 team was loaded with NFL prospects. I'm not sure how many guys sign free agent contracts every year out of college but that is how most of these guys signed but were waived in/before the preseason. Will at least 10 guys out of this year's players sign some sort of contract to at least get a look by an NFL team? If they experience any sort of success (as most of these guys did later in their careers under Mangino) then I would say probably yes.

squawkhawk 11 years, 8 months ago

I'll bet you a million bucks that our "great" coaching staff will start to defect at the end of the season. The boat is sinking and the rats will start fleeing soon. Good luck reverend.

CatsEatBirds 11 years, 8 months ago

I'll take that bet. If they leave, they don't get the big paycheck and their resumes look bad for quitting before performing the turnaround. Bet they still believe they can get the job done in time.

Tony Bandle 11 years, 8 months ago

WOWY KA ZOWY...nice Avatar!!! Best post of the day!!

Jeremy Bloom 11 years, 8 months ago

Amazing how this program has changed since that Orange Bowl season. Turner Gill is a nice guy, his heart is in the right place, and was a great QB for NU. Football programs are the revenue generators for universities. If HCTG doesn't stay with the program, KU needs to spend the money on a top notch coaching staff - period. It'll cost big dollars to get a big name to consider coming to a losing program, but it is the only option as far as I am concerned. The value to having powerful football AND basketball programs is huge.

Ron Prichard 11 years, 8 months ago

One other seems like our players all think they are working hard in practice, are giving effort, etc, and it just isn't translating into the game. What I wonder, are they really giving 100% effort? Great coaches can take a player that just gave everything he had and get him to give even more. They can push players to achieve more than they realized was possible. Is KU simply giving their "all" and being satisfied with their effort when they really could give just a little bit more?

There has to be a reason we aren't getting better. We have talent on this team. The coaches didn't suddenly become complete babbling idiots in headsets. What is the reason? Is there a reason?

CatsEatBirds 11 years, 8 months ago

Upside for the rest of the season:

Any game you go into you will be the underdog. Think how horribly embarrassing it would be for any team on the ku schedule to lose to ku after the last two games. Talk about ruining someone's season...

I can't believe I thought ku was going to win that game last night. Should've known better, the Coffman family sure loves to score on ku.

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 8 months ago

Even I didn't believe that, K-State should enjoy the moment. History shows that it is usually short lived.

2005grad 11 years, 8 months ago

If 10-12 years is short at KSU, what's 1 year (2007) at KU????

Denny2009 11 years, 8 months ago

That was brutal to watch last night, I just don't know what to think. Its pretty pathetic to have been completely blown out in your first couple conference games, with no indication that things will turn around and get better. This team is totally out of sync, bottom line. I think Gill is in over his head, I respect his concepts and mindset, however I feel those would be more suitable for a smaller school, maybe a private or religious oriented school? The Big 12 isn't a conference for the weak, you need a Colonel. Although I believe we already had someone like that and chased him out of town.

DevilHawk 11 years, 8 months ago

It certainly is possible that Gill is in over his head.

However, I think the coaches may have focused on everything but fundamentals during the pre-season practices - on the assumption that players at a Big 12 school should have their fundamentals down.

Instead, we are finding that the fundamentals are missing, and the players are thinking about the play rather than playing the play. Even if the players are well coached and give their best effort, they will still miss plays in such a situation.

It's like in Tetris where you are about to place a block and see what the next block is. You can know what the block is and where you need to place it, but if there is no pause-button and you get distracted then you are probably not going to place the block where it was supposed to go. The same thing happens if you simply take too long to figure out where to place the's set and you're working with the next block before you even realized where you wanted to place the first block.

Jaminrawk 11 years, 8 months ago

Personally, I hope it's time for the bad cop routine. These guys need the most hellish practice week (within ethical standards) of their lives with threats of more if they ever quit like that again. Sadly, I know Gill won't do it.

kudzutexas 11 years, 8 months ago

Mangino only had two wins his first year. He only had one winning season against Big 12 teams. He lost his last 7 games his final year, the offense struggled all year, and the defense has been nonexistent the past two years (since Mangino ran off coach Miller). Mangino was sanction by the NCAA for violations in 2005. Mangino embarrassed the university with his blow ups off and on the field. Mangino's appearance made us the butt of jokes around the country - because he dealt in sports and fitness. We haven't had a running game since Brandon McAnderson because our offensive line is undersized. We can't pressure the opposing quarterback because our defensive line is undersized by 30-60 pounds. Our receivers and running backs are mostly first year players, or have been playing defense the two years. Our team is NOT a perinnial champion or WINNING team.

Lets light up and let this coaching staff recruit, fill holes, settle in, and give them time to do their job. If they could make KU a consistant 7-5 team, that is something no one else has ever done. KU is doesn't have the history or success of Nebraska, K-State under Snyder, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, and even Missouri. Even Colorado won a National Championship. We are not the University of Buffalo. But, with the exception of a handful of decent seasons in our entire history, we are not the showcase program that coaches die for. CHILL!

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

Great Post, Thank you for your intelligence, best post I have read yet... I cannot believe some of the other ignorant posts I have read... To be successful in the Big 12 you have got to have all the pieces together and be more than competitive... That was our 2008 season a the stars and the planets were aligned...

DocBean 11 years, 8 months ago

Sorry, but Mangino never lost twice in a row like this. His 7 game losing streak to end the year were mostly close games. These are blowouts against two of the worst teams in the Big XII.

I said Mangino had to go, but if the next guy is going to cash a 2 million dollar check then he better get the job done. Bottom line Gill is getting paid 10 Million for 5 years, he's a big boy, he needs to do his job!

There are LOTS of coaches out there that WOULD die for that kind of money, and this kind of opportunity. KU just needs to find the right one.

mtdewjunkie 11 years, 8 months ago

nov 2 2002: ksu 64- ku 0. nov 9 2002: nebraska 45- ku-7 so yeah mangino did lose twice in a row like this. close games like...51-20, 42-21, 35-13... not trying to start an argument... just dont think mangino was as good as many on this site seem to think. he was good...not great. we got blown out. we looked bad. we had great games. we played ok. remember the whole body of work.

speckleddog 11 years, 8 months ago

Easy solution for KU football this year: Fire the coach. Hire a new coach that has a record of winning games. Forfeit the rest of the games this season, the fans are going to stop coming anyway. Get ready for Basketball season.

Jaminrawk 11 years, 8 months ago

I'm going to be curious what the stories will be when Gill is gone. Interesting tidits always come out then. My guess is that the players will talk about how some guys didn't pay attention of go hard in practice, etc. Sad.

Ron Prichard 11 years, 8 months ago

Open question to everyone: It wouldn't have made an impact on the outcome of the game, but on KU's first possession of the second half Sims fumbled and KSU ran it back for a touchdown. Before the snap, a KSU player was running off the field. It did not appear that he was anywhere close to being off the field when we snapped the ball. It should have been 12 men on the field and a free play for us. If there were only 11 on the field, it should have at least been offsides, as he was running to the 30 on the sideline and was on KU's side of the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped. I was screaming about this and wasn't the only one in my section to notice, but there was no flag. Did anyone see this on TV? Did the announcers say anything about it? By that time, it was insult to injury, but it still appeared to be a missed call.

justanotherfan 11 years, 8 months ago

The announcers did mention it, and Coach Snyder definitely saw it, because he chewed out one of his defensive assistants for the late substitution and the confusion that resulted. It was another frustrating play on a frustrating night.

bad_dog 11 years, 8 months ago

What about the defensive holding call on K-State during the 1st half? The refs walked off 10 yards and we re-played the down with the balance of the yards to go remaining (3rd & 14, I think). Isn't that an automatic 1st down for a defensive holding call?

mtdewjunkie 11 years, 8 months ago

we were wondering about the same thing.

Defensive players may not use hands and arms to tackle, hold or otherwise illegally obstruct an opponent other than a ball carrier. PENALTY—10 yards [S42].

thats from the ncaa rule book... i guess its just the nfl that gives auto first down.

Ron Prichard 11 years, 8 months ago

I wondered the same thing but I think the hold was behind the line of scrimmage. I was asking people around me if that makes a difference. I would assume it does, but considering the other calls missed last night...

Sam Constance 11 years, 8 months ago

There was that play.

And the play where KSU snapped the ball after the play clock had expired with no flag.

And the no-call PI on the long bomb in the first half.

And the defensive holding.

And the flag against KU in the second half for holding on a screen pass where the "hold" didn't have any affect whatsoever on the play.

The officials were terrible last night. Too bad the KU team overshadowed them in their terribleness.

DevilHawk 11 years, 8 months ago

True, but not nearly as bad as Pac-10 refs.

Jayhawks1985 11 years, 8 months ago

I'm all for giving Turner Gill a chance but my biggest complaint is why do they have to pay him so much. In my job you don't get a raise until you prove yourself and in this economy it's not fair we are paying all that money to a coach that is learning how to be a coach. Also about the players appearing not to be trying hard enough during the game. Aren't most of these guys getting a free ride? They did sign up to play football and not croquet. I think they need to be able to handle all that goes along with it. Was Mangino really a tyrant? I still don't think you can win a Orange Bowl just on luck. I'd like to know why we started losing last year.

misfire 11 years, 8 months ago

Because Perkins turned the asylum over to the inmates.

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

I love how people write these 20 page posts thinking people are actually going to read them. Some of these people that post here are amazingly ignorant. Ok we got slaughtered we were absolutely horrific, whats new... If you are going to play football in the big 12 you have got to bring your A game. KU is a basketball powerhouse folks... I would love to be excellent at football as well but by the grace of GOD we are a BASKETBALL UNIVERSITY... Calling for Gill's head is easy to write in this blog, but when you think about it it makes very little sense, in other words give the man a chance... Good Grief...

roadwarrior1969 11 years, 8 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

trmatlock 11 years, 8 months ago

I am 62, and I grew up in Kansas. I remember when K-State was this bad, but I don't recall the Jayhawks ever being this inept. I had a little hope after the Georgia Tech game, but now, wow, what is happening? Does no one care? They play like they are just going through the motions. They should just go home if they aren't even going to try. Give your scholarships to someone who has intensity and character. Sometimes character and integrity are more effective than talent. Hear what I am saying!

kureader 11 years, 8 months ago

What makes you think our players don't have character and integrity? ... what a bonehead comment!

trmatlock 11 years, 8 months ago

Observe the lack of effort and results; and the lack of emotion while they are being humiliated. Then convince me that I am wrong

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

The over all coaching staff will be reviewed at the end of the season if this continues I do agree with that... Coaching has been really bad this year no question, but lets not rush to fire Gill,.

steamboat 11 years, 8 months ago

AMEN!!!!! I'm not calling for his head, not yet. I'm like so many other fans and just wants the coaches to pull there freakin' head out. Granted KU is not a FB school but as ticket holders we all want is our team to be competitive regardless of who we have on the field and who the opponent is. Last night was a PATHETIC example. People just talk and we all know KU will stay with GiIl at least for 2 years. It's bad now and it might even get worse and so KU fans prepare yourselves.

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

You said the word I have been using in many past posts, COMPETITIVE, no question we should be competitive... If not then really what is the point, the challenge in the Big 12 will always be you have to bring your A game... just the way it is.

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

Remember we all have the option of not being ticket holders and when those people dry up, there will be a quick change no question...

ZDKC 11 years, 8 months ago

For those of you who have seen the movie Angels in the Outfield, the Gill sympathizers remind me of this movie.

Bottom line: You can't hire a 20-30 MAC loser, give him a 1.5+ million dollar raise, and rally behind him using the slogan "You just gotta believe!!"

DevilHawk 11 years, 8 months ago

I'm okay with giving Gill and his staff some time to recruit, but his pay is absurd - and has been since Day 1.

trmatlock 11 years, 8 months ago

We could bring out a girls intramural flag football team and have them compete in the Big 12. Could they do any worse? Don't fire Gill though. Every new coach should get three years to show results.

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

One thing I recall is all the off with his head Mangino people, where are you now are you calling for Gills head because it is convenient, you people make me sick. I stuck by Mangino and got blasted on these blogs for it, now I will stick by Gill. We have a lot of double minded fools on this post and it has gotten rediculous.

sava12 11 years, 8 months ago

There are a lot of questions and opinions out there but here is what I believe we can all agree on as fact: 1. Gill is will not be fired or asked to resign this year. He must find his way with the team and coaches - most importantly the position coaches who are responsible for execution. 2. There is not one fan out there who feels worse than the players. We can post our gripes in this little "therapy session" of ours and come to terms. However, the players have the toughest job; THEY have to put back on the pads and jersey that represents OUR school and go back to the trenches. THEY have to face the criticism first hand and deal with the issues. THEY must "enter the forest at the darkest point where there is no path".
We cannot help them but we can support them for the rest of the year. Maybe they will surprise us when we least expect.

Tony Bandle 11 years, 8 months ago

The day after a 52 to 7 butt-kicking by your hated rival, bring the heat not the heart with your logic for tomorrow after we have all expunged the demons of this demented defeat!! :)

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

Great post, and they have to deal with an Athletic department that is the laughing stock of the nation. How are student athlete relations at the University of Kansas right now, my guess as pathetic as the department is... Folks KU athletics as a joke right now and the root of the football teams misery...

Chris Kurtz 11 years, 8 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

michaelaho 11 years, 8 months ago

That was ugly. KU is terrrrible!! I haven't seen football played like this at KU since Terry Allen. And Terry didn't have the facilities we have now. How did we take such a HUGE step back in one season? I couldn't watch past the 1st half. Too painful!

sportjunky 11 years, 8 months ago

I'm all for giving Gill a chance. However, at this point anyway, I'm starting to miss even Terry Allen...

Travis Shinkle 11 years, 8 months ago

I love it...the Gill defenders whose ONLY response is "Well, Mangino went 2-10 in his first year..."

That maybe true but ZDKC is spot on--what in the world was the KU admin thinking when they thought a sub-.500 coach in the MAC was going to do in the Big 12?!?

Give it time...blah, blah, blah, blah. Did I expect KU to go 7-5 this year? No. A little below .500? Yes. Why not have those expectations EVERY SEASON? Who says you can go 7-5 and then 2-10 the next? MOST OF THE BIG 12 DOESN'T, WHY SHOULD WE BE "FINE" WITH THAT?!?

This losing, er, getting blown out is much more serious than what I think some of you realize. Yes, KU is a "basketball" school but does your memory not go back as far as May/June when KU almost became a member of the WAC or the MOUNTAIN WEST because it isn't a FOOTBALL program?!? Is that where you want to be? Playing Wyoming and Colorado State on some obscure cabin network?

DevilHawk 11 years, 8 months ago

Most schools in the Big 12 recruit better than Mangino did, and the back-ups tend to get game experience.

It's not "fine" to go 2-10 or 3-9 this season, but it can be understood if you actually consider the weaknesses that existed on this team before injuries - nevermind after injuries.

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

How are student athlete relations at the University of Kansas right now, my guess as pathetic as the department is... Folks KU athletics is a joke right now and the root of the football teams misery... If I was a student athlete I would probably be in transfer mode right now, the last thing I would be concerned about would be giving 100% in a football game... This all points back to the athletic department....

jhawkmt 11 years, 8 months ago

I love KU through the good, bad and the ugly. This was just plain ole ugly. But then again, what do we expect when lovely Lew hired a proven LOSING coach? Now that Lew is gone, hire Mark Mangino back. Kiss his butt, give him all the big boy clothes he needs and get KU back on the winning side. This game was not only sad, it was just downright sick. KU is a better team then that. They just need a winning coach.

nate1369 11 years, 8 months ago

I definately agree with your post. I'm still lost on why we hired a losing coach in a terrible division. The Bulls had one winning season in which they were 8-6. Every team that they beat had a losing record and 3 of the wins were won within the last minutes, two of them being in overtime. If this coach can barely slip out a winning season in a terrible conference, what will happen in the big 12???

Ron Prichard 11 years, 8 months ago

Enough with Mangino. He's gone; the train has left the station; that ship has sailed; done and over. Mangino had some good moments, but the fact is that last year he went 5-7 (1-7 Big XII) with Reesing, Meier, Briscoe, Sharp, Stuckey, etc. He lost that team and it showed.

If we want to rip Gill, fine, but it's time to forget about Mangino.

kranny 11 years, 8 months ago

The simple fact is that we don't have very good athletes except for a few skill positions. We're slow, small, and not very good. The whiff tackle-attempt-to-trip play by #33 on the KState sideline out route was the epitome of the talent level of this team. Our O-line is not very good and our Defensive line is worse. I think we've had one sack by our line all year. Let Gill get his boys in there and in two years KU will be playing some bowl game football again. At least I hope so.

Maracas 11 years, 8 months ago

Halfway into the season the players seem lost and unmotivated. Last night they showed no effort. That falls on the coaching staff. That's all on Turner Gill. The man needs to go. And soon, before he drives KU completely into the ground.

duanep5ku 11 years, 8 months ago

I think one thing should be pointed out to all the Turner Gill fans on here. so far. I just want to remind you that every play call during the game was the same as the Baylor game almost to a tee. How did that turn out? I watched the KU game last night and I knew almost all the plays our couching staff was calling just watching the game on TV and if a fan knows what plays are being run. How do you think that same game plan will do against other coaches?not good. Kansas fans correct me if you think I'm wrong but was this the same game plan we used against Baylor? Yes, that is bad coaching period.because you have almost two weeks to come up with a game plan and you want to run the same offense that you used against Baylor. If you can not make changes in your play calling, sorry but you will fail as a head coach. Turner are you still trying to insert Sands in the game for that one or two yards per carry rush? is that really working out. I do have concern as a long time Kansas fan about this coach and yes, I know one season does not make a career but do Kansas fans want to go back to old Nebraska style of play again? well maybe if it produces wins but that will take some time and new players. Oh, and if you do want to run on first down on every play like old NU used to do and what were doing now, you need a smash mouth type of running back, that can carry a defender a few yards with him per rush and not a twig that falls down when getting touched or the wind blows the wrong way.

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 8 months ago

It seems clear to me that this probably isn't what coach had in mind for his offense. I would bet he had hoped to install a run-heavy offense, but we just aren't there in terms of talent. I agree that there are things in the game(s) that do seem to point to coaching errors, but there are way more things that point to a lack of speed, size, etc. (all the things some have pointed out)...and that doesn't even include a ton of injuries, especially to the O-line. It really is too early to tell if Gill can coach this group, but I'm starting to worry that he'll lose the fans first and then the team. He may have already lost the fans. Fortunately, a few big wins, whenever they come, always seems to fix that!

duanep5ku 11 years, 8 months ago

I do agree with what you say but unfortunately I think the coach started out at Kansas with a good part of the fan base questioning his hire at Kansas and it will probably get worse.

JayHok 11 years, 8 months ago

Wouldn't it be funny if:

Here we are yelling at each other about how bad we are, getting beat by 52 points AT HOME by, historically speaking, one of the worst teams in Division 1 football, but years later we find out that Bill Synder has been pushing steroids to his players since the early nineties?

I mean really!!!!!

They suck for three years under Barney's leadership....

They pass a few bucks under the table (get caught, 3 million to be exact) and "WHALLLA!"....

Bill Synder comes back...,

Now what happened to Barney's awful & weak players!!!??

Do they suddenly have a bunch of Incredible Hulks & 6'5" Mike Tysons for Offensive & Defensive linemen or what!?!?

(surely they'd have no access to steroids at a place that specializes in growing bigger cows & pigs, oops, did I say too much Bill? Sorry!)

Anyway.... Can we have some too Coach Synder?

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

What do Royds have to do with KU stinkin it up...

JayHok 11 years, 8 months ago

Apparently we don't have access to Coach Snyder's medicine chest.

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

Apparently not........:-) I dont think we have access to much of anything, Athletic Department that is the laughing stock of the Nation, Football team that is the laughing stock of the nation, Hopefully the Bball team will pull us out of the sewer...

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

The Athletic department is in the toilet = KU athletics in the toilet, how this fiasco will effect coach Selfs team will be interesting to see... It probably wont, but I garantee it has effected other aspects of KU athletics...

Jeff Dean 11 years, 8 months ago

For those of you who are OK with KU being a basketball school: How long do you think that will last if KU is left out of one of the super conferences that experts keep predicting will happen. Last time it looked like we were going to be left out because "it was all about football"? If the Big XII implodes in a few years, it would be nice to have a decent football program on our resume. We cannot afford to such at football forever.

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

I am all about having a great football team after we fix the Athletic department and improve the schools academics...

JayHok 11 years, 8 months ago

None of us are OK with what happened last night.

Gill does have better access to the big star recruits, that's quite obvious (and this is due simply to approachability which none of our previous coaches had), but that was awful technique last night.

Synder is the master at drilling technique until his guys muscles can't forget. Similar to Tom Osborne.

Our technique, even with our 2 stars, sucked.

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

Blahh Blahh Blahhh, Boohooo hooo, You big whiner...

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 8 months ago

Never? Come on. K-State was ready to drop to Div 2 and they made it back. Our program has dominated KSU over the years and will again.

JayHok 11 years, 8 months ago

Can't believe it took 20 years to put together cows & pigs getting huge on the same campus as the worst football team in the history of Division 1 suddenly turning into a top 3 Big 8 team overnight to go along with a mysterious 3 million dollar check written before Synder was re-hired as head coach, although mysteriously done with his knowledge according to the final report.

Why is Bill Synder always seen as clean in the press?

Good Lord.

Why can't we just hire Synder away from KsU, he has the Goods right there in his medicine chest & Swiss bank account.

Oh and he's a good coach to, emphasizing technique, drills & muscle memory.

Dan Harris 11 years, 8 months ago

Only way to turn this thing around is to get a stud in as our next AD

kualuminohio 11 years, 8 months ago

Now your talkin, clean house in the athletic department and get focused on turning things around... Best post all day, the only post that makes any sense at all...

Dan Harris 11 years, 8 months ago

And make DAMN sure Self is on board with the hire!

P0WER 11 years, 8 months ago

Prologue: Mangino was an assistant at KSU from '91-'98 under Snyder. From '93-'99 KSU made 7 straight bowl appearances, winning 4 of them including the Fiesta Bowl in '97. Mangino left KSU for Oklahoma in '99 and was the OC on the 2000 National Championship team, after which he was awarded the Frank Broyles Award as the nation's top assistant coach. He got the HC position at KU in 2001 and took KU to bowl games in '03, '05, '07 and '08, one of those victories being the BCS Orange Bowl, and was awarded the National Coach of the Year the same year. He was able to do this even after the university admitted major NCAA violations in '05 and with the addition of 4 more violations in other sports in '06 the football team was limited for two years in its recruitment of junior college transfers, and lost two scholarships for each of the 2007 and 2008 seasons.

Now to my point. KU deserves every bit of what they are getting in regards to their current football program. Mangino was a well respected football coach and a proven winner that was muscled out by an unscrupulous AD. Now both are gone and the program is in shambles. Everyone out there calling for HCTG's job needs to STFU because IMHO he is doing as good a job as possible with what he has been given.

Lew Perkins is the one responsible for this mess, not Turner Gill. Lew should have been the one run out of town, not Mangino. Lew did not hire Bill Self, or Mangino. He deserves no credit for our recent successes but all the blame for our recent failures.

Bill Snyder and the KSU Wildcats came into Memorial Stadium Thursday night intent on showing KU fans and their football team that what goes around comes around. You didn't appreciate a great coach when you had one and now you have to live with the consequences of letting him go and keeping Lew around instead.

And that isn't even the end of it. The cancer is now spreading throughout the whole athletic department. The basketball team couldn't even make it to the Sweet 16 last year and the coaches have already voted KSU the best team in the conference this season.

To the incoming athletic director whom ever you may be: The University of Kansas is an outstanding institution with great pride and the highest standards. It will be your job to continue that tradition. Please don't let us down.

mtdewjunkie 11 years, 8 months ago

dont forget who was in charge when the violations took place. mr mangino...dont give him credit for winning with recruiting restrictions...he was in a postition to avoid them.

what goes around does indeed come around...ask mangino...his actions and attitude led to his end here at ku. (easy with the "great coach" praise...he is more glen mason with a temper than he is urban meyer)

as for the mess we have now... i agree turner gill is not responsible, (he isnt helping much, but not responsible) coach mangino deserves most of the blame, he didnt bring in enough talent. he found/made some very good players, but not enough to continue the sucsess.

your comments on the basketball team are a bit of a stretch....if you would like a longer reply let me know and ill give you the full version.

its gonna be ok.

Ben Kliewer 11 years, 8 months ago

As some of you may be aware, I have been using intelligently constructed sarcastic comments for the last few months to down the "Gill-Haters" and be a part of the campaign to give Gill some time to build his program, recruit his players, and become KU's next great football coach. The thing that especially ticks me off is when people go on rants regarding Gill's faith, using it as a personal attack. Check yourself. True, we live in the United States of America, and we have the freedom to say what we want. But gouging someone about their faith, regardless of what that faith is, and using it as a personal attack because you don't like him as a football coach...? Well folks, that's just tactless, and is an execrable example of someone who claims to be a fan of our great University. Absolutely unacceptable 'Hawk Fans. Show some class. ... I recently moved to Los Angeles. Oddly enough, I've discovered that I am able to get most of the KU games on Fox Sports West. The first few games, especially after the GaTech game, I was very much on the kick of this being a building year, that we have greatness on the team and the coaching staff. Giving Gill a year or three to build this up as his program behooves us as fans of KU Football. But what I saw on Thursday night against KSU was a slap in the face to this program and this school. The performance represented a complete lack of creativity and imagination on play calling. There were no risks taken whatsoever. The players on the field lacked the following; emotion, motivation, aggressiveness, any sense of pride, conditioning, and a general overall grasp that they were playing in a football game. This all goes back to coaching. There is a serious problem with this coaching staff. I don't know who it is. The resumes on that sideline are all pretty impressive. There may be one weak link in the chain, or it may be the whole thing. But when the rubber meets the road, it all comes back to the Head Coach. Again, I am all for giving Coach Gill time to build his program. From what I've seen so far, he could have 18 of the best blue chips this great country of ours has to offer coming in, but if he can't motivate those young men to actually play football for him, then he cannot win football games. I have seen nothing that indicates to me that Gill is making any strategic moves during the season to improve his team. He just keeps doing the same thing, unaware that the machine is broken. Something needs to turn around this season. You can motivate players by being a "touchy feely" kind of coach. You can have any coaching style you want and motivate players, you just have to know how to do it. The only time I saw these players motivated was against GaTech. I don't know who did what during that game, but we need to bottle that magic and bring it back. Because that's the only thing that's going to fix the machine...Magic. Basically, what my message for Coach Gill would be is this... Shape up, or ship out.

JBurtin 11 years, 8 months ago

I can see what you're saying about it being tasteless to attack a guy for his faith; however, discrimination can be a two way street.

A couple of things that give me pause: Olaitan Oguntodu & Chris Harris

We were told before the season that if there was one major strong point to the defense it was the fact that we had plenty of speedy defensive backs to choose from. So who is on the field as starters?

Chris Harris has never been known for his blazing speed and has spent most of his career getting burned.

Oguntodu looked absolutely lost his entire time under Mangino and suddenly he's a starter.

So what do both of these players have in common? Both are well known to be devout Christians.

It could just be a coincidence, but as I said, it's enough to make me wonder.

Ben Kliewer 11 years, 8 months ago

I'm not going to refute or support your theory here, because I have no evidence either way. It's a valid point of consideration. But before we get into Christian conspiracy theories, I think we should also acknowledge that, including this one, there are many possibilities why Oguntodu and Harris are in the positions they are in. I would certainly not support favoritism on a coaching staff, and I know this is a loaded statement, but especially favoritism for a player of a lower capability over one of a higher capability. We all know this happens in football all over the country. (Look at Colorado's QB situation for the last few years, for example). "We were told before the season that if there was one major strong point to the defense it was the fact that we had plenty of speedy defensive backs to choose from." I would like to point out that we were also told before the KSU game that the Wildcats were the best match up for Kansas yet this year and it would be a close game, maybe even a Jayhawk win. We were told before the season (at Alumni events, by Coach Gill) that the defense would up the aggressiveness, and there would be more blitz packages thrown in. We were told that Kale Pick had the leadership abilities to inspire the offense. We were told a great many things... In hindsight, maybe we can't always believe what we were told.

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