Originally published March 20, 2009 at 10:22a.m., updated March 20, 2009 at 04:25p.m.

FINAL: Bison have no answer for Aldrich in KU’s 84-74 victory; Jayhawks to meet Dayton Flyers Sunday afternoon

Kansas center Cole Aldrich rips a rebound away from North Dakota State guards Brett Winkelman, left, and Mike Nelson during the second half Friday, March 20, 2009 at the Metrodome in Minneapolis.

Kansas center Cole Aldrich rips a rebound away from North Dakota State guards Brett Winkelman, left, and Mike Nelson during the second half Friday, March 20, 2009 at the Metrodome in Minneapolis.


Audio clips

2009 KU-NDSU

Reader poll

Who was KU's first-half MVP against North Dakota State?

  • Sherron Collins 63% 178 votes
  • Cole Aldrich 33% 94 votes
  • Marcus Morris 1% 4 votes
  • Tyshawn Taylor 2% 6 votes
  • Other 0% 0 votes

282 total votes.

Reader poll

How do you feel heading into today's game against North Dakota State

  • Extremely scared 15% 23 votes
  • Somewhat scared 32% 48 votes
  • Neither scared nor confident 16% 24 votes
  • Somewhat confident 23% 35 votes
  • Extremely confident 10% 16 votes

146 total votes.


For more information on the NCAA Tournament, check out

KU to meet Dayton

With a victory over West Virginia on Friday, Dayton advanced to meet KU in the second round of the NCAA Tournament.

The two teams will meet at 1:30 p.m.

This is the second time the two teams have met, with Dayton winning the first contest in 1968.

KU scoring

Collins 32 (career high, 12-for-26 shooting), Aldrich 23 (9-for-12 shooting), Marcus Morris 8, Morningstar 8, Taylor 8, Reed 3, Markieff Morris 2.

KU went 32-for-64 from the floor (50 percent), 4-for-12 from three (33.3 percent) and 16-for-20 from the free-throw line (80 percent).

NDSU was 26-for-62 from the floor (41.9 percent), 10-for-24 from three (41.7 percent) and 12-for-15 from the free-throw line (80 percent).

Woodside finished with 37 points on 13-for-23 shooting.

KU out-rebounded NDSU, 39-34. NDSU had nine turnovers to KU's five.

FINAL: KU defeats NDSU, 84-74

Woodside hits another near-impossible shot on the baseline, but it’s not enough. The Jayhawks make eight straight free throws and survive their first-round road game against the Bison, 84-74.

KU 76/NDSU 70 — 1:07 left in game

Collins draws a pair of defenders, then drops a pass to Marcus Morris for an easy two. Good play by the point guard.

Marcus Morris drives, then hurls it over to Aldrich for another slam. The big man’s hands might be raw from so many dunks.

Woodside continues to will NDSU back, as he drains a guarded three over Morningstar. Nothing the KU defender could do.

Collins misses on a drive, but Aldrich follows the shot with a slam and foul. Aldrich has 12 shots and Collins has 25. It just doesn’t make sense.

Collins misses a chippy on a drive, and Winkleman follows with a three to cut KU’s lead to six with 1:07 left.

KU 69/NDSU 62 — 3:52 left in game

Collins hits a huge three on a set play. It’s the best shot Collins has had this half, as it was open and in the flow of the offense.

Huge steal by Morningstar, who turns it into two points on the other end by going under the basket for a layup.

Collins bounces it to Aldrich, who picks up Moormann’s fifth foul. I believe Aldrich has drawn fouls four of the last five times he’s touched it.

Woodside continues to get the benefit of the whistle when he goes inside. KU needs to survive four more minutes.

KU 62/NDSU 57 — 7:57 left in game

Another bad shot for Collins, who doesn’t look to any of his teammates before hoisting up an 18-foot guarded jumper. Collins checks out, and Appleton checks in.

Just after checking back in, Collins takes a pass then, without a pass, goes to the bucket and gets rejected on a shot. Why won’t he look to Aldrich at least once before putting up a shot?

KU’s dodging some bullets, as Tveidt and company have had some open shots rattle out lately.

Collins can’t guard Woodside, so I don’t know why Self is still trying it. KU needs Appleton, Morningstar or a zone. Woodside’s up to 27 points.

The last four times Aldrich has touched it has resulted in three fouls on NDSU and a dunk for KU.

KU 56/NDSU 52 — 11:48 left in game

Woodside is putting on a clinic. KU can’t keep anyone in front of him. Self is trying to trap ball screens, switch on ball screens, everything in the book, but it’s not working. Woodside is blowing by every defender and getting to the basket for layups.

Woodside’s up to 22 points, and KU needs somebody — anybody — to step up defensively. Could that be Appleton?

KU 49/NDSU 44 — 15:21 left in game

Two dunks to start off the second half for KU. A lob pass on the baseline to Aldrich gets him a slam, and on a fast break, Taylor throws the ball down with one hand.

Just when KU looks in control, the Bison make another run. Michael Tveidt hits an open three, and after a pair of free throws, Tveidt tips in a miss while getting fouled by Aldrich. About half of the Bison’s 20,000 fans remain on their feet during a Self timeout with KU’s lead down to four at 47-43.

Following the timeout, Collins forces up another terrible shot. Against more talented defensive teams, KU needs that kind of tough shot. The Jayhawks don’t need it against the Bison.

Next possession, Collins takes a few dribbles in before lobbing it to Aldrich for a dunk. That’s the high-percentage shot the Jayhawks are looking for.

KU scoring

Collins 17 (8-for-12 shooting), Aldrich 8 (4-for-5 shooting), Marcus Morris 6, Taylor 6, Morningstar 3, Markieff Morris 2, Reed 1.

KU was 19-for-34 from the floor (55.9 percent), 2-for-5 from three (40 percent) and 3-for-6 from the free-throw line (50 percent).

NDSU was 13-for-30 from the floor (43.3 percent), 7-for-13 from three (53.8 percent) and 1-for-3 from the free-throw line (33.3 percent).

Woodside had 16 first-half points on 7-for-10 shooting.

KU out-rebounded NDSU, 20-16. NDSU had five turnovers to KU’s two.

Halftime thoughts

Would you have felt confident if I told you before the game that the Bison would hit seven of 13 threes in the first half? KU has built its lead by overpowering the Bison offensively. The Jayhawks, if they pass it long enough, have been able to get good, open shots against the Bison.

Only two first-half turnovers for KU? That has to be the best mark in a half this season. Not only are the Jayhawks getting good shots, they’re also getting shots.

KU has tried about every defender it has on Woodside, and not many seem to be working. The best option, so far, has looked like Tyrone Appleton, so I wouldn’t be surprised (especially if KU’s leading) if he logs quite a few more minutes in the second half (He had four first-half minutes).

Don’t overlook Marcus Morris’ line in the first half: Six points, 2-for-2 shooting, four rebounds, one assist and no turnovers in 10 minutes.

KU 43/NDSU 34 — Halftime

Nice pass by Markieff Morris, who lobbed it to Aldrich under the basket for an easy layup.

KU had a chance to go ahead double digits, but Collins kills the momentum. He tries to go one-on-three, forcing up a tough shot in the lane that misses. KU has been getting easy buckets inside, so don’t know why Collins feels like he has to do things himself.

Sure enough, NDSU follows with a quick run. Woodside drives for a layup, then Brett Winkleman rattles in a three for a 5-0 run. Timeout KU.

The Jayhawks go back to what works. Collins drives, then finds Aldrich inside on an easy pass for a slam. It’s that easy if the Jayhawks want it to be.

Costly missed free throw by Woodside at the end of the half. He bricked the front end of a one-and-one, and KU once again scored in the final 5 seconds of the first half, as Collins swished a 16-foot fadeaway. What could have been a five-point deficit for NDSU instead balloons to nine.

KU 34/NDSU 29 — 3:48 left in first half

NDSU can keep up with KU offensively, but the Bison’s defensive woes are starting to show through. KU pushes ahead with a 7-0 run, and none of the shots (Aldrich dunk, Morningstar three, Taylor layup) were defended well by NDSU.

Woodside has an answer after the break, floating in a jumper. KU hasn’t found a way to slow him down yet, as Woodside has 14 points on 6-for-7 shooting.

KU 27/NDSU 25 — 6:47 left in first half

Woodside buries a three over Mario Little. The Bison are 4-for-6 from three.

Bad shot for Collins, who pulled up from 18 feet with a man right in his face.

KU fails to hustle to a loose ball, and it turns into a Woodside three. Self doesn’t look pleased that his team looked too tired to make a defensive play.

The good news for the Jayhawks is that they don’t look tight or tense. They just haven’t played good enough defense so far to build much of a lead.

KU 21/NDSU 19 — 10:53 left in first half

Collins isn’t passing the ball much. The good news for KU is that he isn’t missing much either.

He’s scored 11 straight for KU, and he shows the ‘I’m feeling it’ face to the KU fans.

Tyrone Appleton checks in early for KU. This shows the value of a deep bench. Appleton has played just 15 minutes in conference play, but he will have value today if he can slow down NDSU’s Ben Woodside today.

Lucas Moormann, NDSU’s 6-10 center, just picked up his second foul. The Bison will have to play small.

KU 12/NDSU 11 — 14:47 left in first half

North Dakota State hits the first basket — a three from Mike Nelson — and the crowd erupts.

At least early, NDSU is showing a ton of energy. One guy dives to save a ball from going out of bounds. Another dives at a ball that goes just out of his reach. The crowd loves it.

Collins has taken some questionable shots early on. He looks to be forcing the issue just a bit.

Already three three-pointers from NDSU. The Jayhawks’ three-point defense hasn’t shown improvement from the Baylor game yet.

Marcus Morris gets a two off an offensive rebound, and Cole Aldrich gets free for a dunk on an alley-oop. The Jayhawks should realize now that that is where they have the biggest advantage.

11:30 a.m.

Fair or not, this is a great atmosphere for NCAA basketball.

Here we go.

11:20 a.m.

After consulting with Gary Bedore, we’re going to say that there are 20,000 Bison fans here. I guess NDSU coach Saul Phillips wasn’t lying earlier this week when he said that his team’s fans would single-handedly boost the economy in Minneapolis.

The “Let’s Go, Bison” chant has reverberated across the court a few times already. It would be best for the Jayhawks to get off to a good start.

11 a.m.

Now that I’ve told you KU has a great chance to win, we have to get to the bad news for KU fans.

There’s no doubt now: This will be a true road game for the Jayhawks.

There is yellow everywhere. There is only one small section across from me where I see more blue-shirted fans than yellow-shirted ones.

The only good news for the Jayhawks is that many Bison fans are on the outskirts of the arena — quite a ways from the court. I don’t know how well we’ll hear those fans.

Having said that, 10,000 Bison fans would probably be a low estimate for today’s game.

10:52 a.m.

I know you came to this blog for good news, so here are four statistical reasons the Jayhawks will win today:

1. North Dakota State allows 68.6 points per game. KU is 24-1 this year when it scores 68 points or more.

2. North Dakota State’s opponents have shot 36.1 percent from three this year. KU is 22-1 when it shoots 36 percent or better from three.

3. NDSU is 2-3 against teams ranked in the top 100 of Ken Pomeroy’s rankings. The Bison have lost to Minnesota (52nd), Stephen F. Austin (91st) and Southern Cal (28th) but beat Oral Roberts twice (88th). KU is ranked 11th in KenPom’s rankings.

4. KU has not allowed a team to shoot 50 percent or better all year. NDSU is 26-6 overall, but just a pedestrian 10-6 when it doesn’t shoot 50 percent or better.

10:24 a.m.

Welcome back to the Newell Post Live, coming to you from the Metrodome in Minneapolis, Minn., where the third-seeded Kansas Jayhawks are getting ready to face the 14th-seeded North Dakota State Bison.

The most intriguing part of the pre-game, to me, will be seeing just how many fans from the state of North Dakota State show up here today. We've heard all sorts of predictions: 5,000, 10,000, 20,000, 30,000.

My guess would be somewhere in the 10,000 range, which would give the Bison a distinct home-court advantage.

I can tell you this much: the yellow shirts are already starting to descend into the seats. I'd say there's already a few hundred Bison fans here, and with the yellow shirts, they should be able to spot on TV.

Is this fair for KU? Should the third-seeded Jayhawks have to play a road game in the first round of the NCAA Tournament? Probably not.

Then again, the game is played on the court. The Jayhawks are more talented than the Bison, and they've had a week to get themselves ready for this game.

The Jayhawks also have been told again and again how great North Dakota State is. There's no way the Jayhawks should overlook the Bison today.

We'll have more coming up from Minneapolis as the game gets closer.


d_prowess 13 years, 3 months ago

Not much time to blog today given the early start! I like the crowd report though. Let us know what kind of KU contingent shows up too.

cwag 13 years, 3 months ago

No threat to the force -

KU 73 NDS 61

littleb222000 13 years, 3 months ago

Hopefully we play pressure D today to stop their 3 point shooting

Jesse Newell 13 years, 3 months ago

d_prowess — See above. Disappointing KU crowd so far. Maybe 1,000 at this point?

mom_of_three 13 years, 3 months ago

anyone know how i can listen to Max and Chris at work? The lazr isn't streaming.

KGphoto 13 years, 3 months ago

It's an early start, and hey, Kansas has been there before. My guess is that KU fans are having some breakfast and will arrive soon.

NDSU however, couldn't sleep, and are savoring every moment. No worries, Kansas will show. Either way, I'm more worried about how comfortable the players are with the court.

Does the basket look big? Will Morningstar, Collins and Reed feel comfortable shooting from distance? How's Cole's wheel? Judging from the gorilla jam above, he's feeling pretty good.

MinnesotaJay 13 years, 3 months ago

My daughter and her girlfriend are surrounded by Bison (a speck of blue in the sea of yellow). I just got off the phone with her. Told her she should have taken a bow and arrow. The girls were interviewed by a local TV station outside the Metrodome. It was pretty loud, so I didn't get more than that.


KGphoto 13 years, 3 months ago

Oops. Well I know I saw a gorilla jam somewhere. How does Cole look?

Blake Brown 13 years, 3 months ago

Throw out the stats, this is a different game now called "tourney time". Forget the crowd size against us, it is still a foreign court for both teams. Remember too, we lost 2 games in KC this season. More important is the response by our youth versus their experience and the fact that we have struggled recently against zones and they play man unless there is a change in strategy. It comes down to us making shots and that requires us getting the shot we like to take when we like to take it and defending and getting the ball inside and then kick it out if necessary for the open 3. The Hawks will prevail. Rock Chalk!!

mom_of_three 13 years, 3 months ago

thanks, I will keep trying. lazr isn't streaming the game on the computer, not sure if anyone will be able to, and I don't have a radio.

brooksmd 13 years, 3 months ago sportsline to watch the game. not up yet but should be. I hope as we are getting Syr-SF Austin here in da bayou on tv.

kupark 13 years, 3 months ago

Cole looks tall, white, lanky with a buzz cut. Hope this helps.

kupark 13 years, 3 months ago

Who won the tip and what defense is NDSU playing? 3-0 to NDSU

OCJHAWK 13 years, 3 months ago

The Bison are laying it all out. We just need to hang till half as they will be totally spent.

jayharchitect 13 years, 3 months ago

Hey Jesse, has ever thought about integrating an auto-refresh? That would be super helpful for gameday.

No 61 inch TV today. Boss is having a meeting in there right now.

kupark 13 years, 3 months ago

Although Collins is hitting shots but he is again playing 1 vs. 5. Get the ball in side to Cole, Collins!

OCJHAWK 13 years, 3 months ago

I am watching on my computer out here in Cali Go to yahoo sports ncaabb home page and click on watch live in upper right.

kupark 13 years, 3 months ago

I read on the box score that Appleton is in there? Why?

okjhok 13 years, 3 months ago

Appleton is in there to run more bodies at Woodside. We're gonna wear 'em out.

kusayzone 13 years, 3 months ago

I want to keep a running total of assists to baskets scored....Sherron should sit on the bench and count the assists and Woodside is eating him alive on offense!!!

kupark 13 years, 3 months ago

We're hitting 50% and the game is tied. This KU teams doesn't play defense like other Bill Self coached teams have done in the past.

okjhok 13 years, 3 months ago

If NDSU continues to hit 3s like this, they're going to stay in the game. The defense isn't all that bad, they just aren't missing yet.

truehawkfan 13 years, 3 months ago

Collins is just trying to get us going. We will be fine. Collins will attract the attention to him to get Cole open. Lets just trust him for now.

sawman3333 13 years, 3 months ago

Looks like this is a game to keep the nitro pills close by...

sawman3333 13 years, 3 months ago

Finally....a little bit of separation! 34-27!

cwag 13 years, 3 months ago

Need a late push, capped off with the patented 3 at the buzzer!

optichawk 13 years, 3 months ago

These guys all have the same barber, huh?

missKU 13 years, 3 months ago

Jesse, how many KU fans do you think there are?

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago




optichawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Remember late in the 2nd half at KState? Throw it into Cole and let him do his thing...they can't stop him

okjhok 13 years, 3 months ago

The Jayhawks are fine. Woodside is good. He could play for anyone in the coutry, no question. But he can't beat us alone. Stay the course, 'Hawks. Keep feeding the post and that perimeter is gonna be wide open.

mahkmood 13 years, 3 months ago

kupark - appleton is in there because no one on our team can stop Woodside from dribbling to the basket - Woodside is good, but terrible defense on Woodside. Hey, the guy is good, but come on.

Jonathan Kealing 13 years, 3 months ago

Guys, we're also offering periodic updats on scores and plays via Twitter. If you'd like, you can follow us at

Jonathan Kealing Online editor Lawrence Journal-World / 6News

optichawk 13 years, 3 months ago

We are not taking control of a far lesser team...Cole, good foul

sawman3333 13 years, 3 months ago

Another shot at the buzzer................YES!

sawman3333 13 years, 3 months ago

Have we hit a shot at the end of the 1st half in over half of the games this year? Sure does seem that way.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago


KU not up by 70 at halftime????

This is unacceptable!!!!

fire self immediately!!!!

d_prowess 13 years, 3 months ago

Paging Travis Releford, Travis Releford... please report to the floor!
What is up with him not playing, but Appleton play?!

BCRavenJHawkfan 13 years, 3 months ago

So how do major schools not land these 3 point assassins that we always encounter?

Everyone here keep sending the good vibes, I have a tee time to make.

mom_of_three 13 years, 3 months ago

Watching the game isn't a problem, but I like to listen to the radio instead of the tv announcers. Except these guys aren't too bad. but I like to hear Chris Piper's commentary.

muffaletta 13 years, 3 months ago

Thanks for the yahoo sports tip! I'm loving it at work out here in Seattle!!

cwag 13 years, 3 months ago

2nd half keys -

Pound it inside / get to the line Tighten up defense, especially on Woodside Rebound

mahkmood 13 years, 3 months ago

d_prowess, Self is looking for someone who can keep Woodside from penetrating - thus Appleton's rare appearance today. Releford isn't quick enough to stop Woodside. It's surprising to me that Collins can't stop Woodside, but I think Collins mostly focuses on the offensive end.

Collins is shooting great, but there is no one from NDSU who can stop Aldrich and Marcus... Get them the ball! I guarantee Self will stress this at half, and we will see KU dumping the ball inside a lot more 2nd half (that is, IF Self's guards will actually listen to what he says)

cwag 13 years, 3 months ago

Moorman with moving screens at the top of the key every possession

brooksmd 13 years, 3 months ago


optichawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Why can't Morris rebound instead of run away from the basket when the ball goes up?

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago

Hard to believe we are being outrebounded by NDSU 14.26 to go in the second half!

optichawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Morris again out of position for a rebound...actually out of bounds even

TheTruth08 13 years, 3 months ago

Ben Woodside is abusing Sherron,today. He has defended him once today.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

optichawk-maybe you should play-since you know so much


Eric Hammond 13 years, 3 months ago

I swear out terrible defense is making this woodside kid look like a number 1 overall draft pick later this year. We are a terrible defensive team.

P.S. PASS THE BALL SHERRON! The rest of your team is standing around watching. Get them involved and they are a better team. Quit being a ball hog!!!!

mahkmood 13 years, 3 months ago

piss poor defense against Woodside - just sad to watch. doesn't look like we're even trying to stop him

Theutus 13 years, 3 months ago

Looks like Collins is starting to get caught up in the 1 on 1 game. He needs to stop shooting and start passing.

ahawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Collins is killing me. As a point guard, his job is not just to score by putting up crappy, out of control shots. He needs to get everyone else involved. Find Aldrich inside. Morris twins play like they've never been coached. I can't stop complaining.

OCJHAWK 13 years, 3 months ago

We are getting boxed out by a smaller team. Few offensive rebounds.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

All of you on Collin's back need to shut up!!!!

He has 20 points with 10 min left!!!!

Theutus 13 years, 3 months ago

Yet another piss poor attempt by Collins without so much of a look at a teamate.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

When exactly did all you decide to turn on Collins???

He's only one of the best to ever play at KU

Some of you really amaze me.....

ahawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Is kennethst Collins' mom? Grandma?

Travis Shinkle 13 years, 3 months ago

...where did cbs get these commentators? I swear cbs must pack their March madness commentators into a storage container and then pull them out every March...

Theutus 13 years, 3 months ago

I've never liked Collins. He plays stupid. One of the best to ever play at KU? laughable. You let any of a number of people even in recent years play like Collins plays, and they'd have better numbers, and less turnovers.

Collins just gets away with pulliing this crap because somehow people are convinced he's the only one on the team that can score. It's ridiculous.

Eric Hammond 13 years, 3 months ago

we have the slowest guards ever! Are you serious, this woodside kid is the fastest point guard in the world.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

Go ahead....trash Collins.....make fools of yourselves.

This is really sad.....and unbelievable.

Eric Hammond 13 years, 3 months ago

Collins is great player, but the point guard is suppose to get the rest of the team involved. He is totally ignoring his teammates. KU is a better team, when the team plays, not just Sherron.

d_prowess 13 years, 3 months ago

the announcers nailed it. Collins is great, but he needs to not just try to create for himself, but for his teammates. And Collins does have 25ish, but Cole could easily have that if he was given the ball more!

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago're right.....what am I thinking.....Collins is horrible....they should bench him.

Hey Moron.....get off his back....

Brian Powell 13 years, 3 months ago

Is it just me , or is the obvious answer to AT LEAST TRY zone defense???

I haven't seen the whole game, but if someone is getting layup after layup after layup after layup, you would switch out of the MAN defense that isn't working and try something else.

Am I missing something? Yes, I know they can shoot the 3.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

Theutus-guess you just hate that 3 pointer from Collins, huh?


optichawk 13 years, 3 months ago

the next run is critical to sustain...put them away!

Theutus 13 years, 3 months ago

I'll get off his back when he stops trying to put the entire game on his....

truehawkfan 13 years, 3 months ago

We all just need to calm down. If Self thinks Collins is shooting too much, then I am sure he is a good enough coach with enough experience to tell him to stop. When Collins wins the game, you are all praising him, when you think he is shooting too much, you all want him benched and lynched! He is scoring for us, he is feeding Cole when he is open, and he is playing just fine. We are about to break this thing wide open, so jut stop.

Lance Hobson 13 years, 3 months ago

Easy guys, we're winning and Woodside has to cool off and get tired eventually.

OCJHAWK 13 years, 3 months ago

Collins is having a record day.I am not so sure HCBS is directing him on all the shots as the other Hawks are not in rebound position when he shoots.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

Theutus-steal by, he's awful.

ahawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Dude, an earlier post, didn't you call for Collins and Aldrich to be benched and for Self to fired "immediately"?

optichawk 13 years, 3 months ago

NDST is stagnent...first time today. Nice D boys!

champhawk10 13 years, 3 months ago

As much as Collins frustrates me sometimes. Without him this year we are begging to get invited to the NIT. He has carried this team and from the looks off it today he is doing it again. he does make bone head plays sometimes but all the bashing needs to stop. Nobody is perfect. Rock Chalk

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

Let's be honest, guys. When Sherron Collins is hot, he's on a whole other level. The problem is when he's cold...he still takes almost 20 shots a game. Heading into the tournament, he was something like 16 for 58 in his last three games. My biggest grip about Collins is his decision making. He's a physically strong point guard who can get to the basket, but his leaping ability, or lack thereof, often leads to him getting rejected by "longer" players. Plus, against North Dakota State, who's tallest starter is 6'10" and next tallest is 6'7", they should be getting the ball inside...not shooting jumpers over defenders and trying to force layups.

Theutus 13 years, 3 months ago

knnethst, do you really want me to start posting every time Collins has a turnover, or doesn't hit an off-balance contested shot?

I'm not going to do that, but you get the point... Atleast i hope you do.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

ahwak----it's called sarcasm.

It was an attempt to show how stupid some of you sound.

c0bra 13 years, 3 months ago

Weird, I was listening to 610 am in the car and the game was on, but their internet stream is some sports talk show.

Anyone got a live radio feed? (I know there's only a few minutes left)

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

Collin's isn't perfect...but he's the point guard! The point guard controls the flow of the game and dictates the offense. It's probably more Bill's (Self) fault because Collins should be playing an off-guard.

optichawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Kenneth.. watch the game...there's a good one doing on. You're wasting your time here

Theutus 13 years, 3 months ago

Did anyone else just get switched to the Tenn - Ok St. game? they better be changing back.

kusayzone 13 years, 3 months ago

Great block on Taylor...absolutely no ball and all arm---announcers are speechless

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

Hey Theutus.....guess what.....he's human!!!!

What do you think the score would be without him?

OCJHAWK 13 years, 3 months ago

watch it on pc read my post early in the comment lines

optichawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Is Tenn the last SEC team standing? Dang, CBS is actually doing a nice job on coverage, huh?

champhawk10 13 years, 3 months ago

These last few minutes the ball better reach Aldrich's hands more than once. Still love Collins no matter what happens though.

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

Did you know that Collins is the 5th best three point shooter on the team (in terms of 3-point percentage)?

fansincewilt 13 years, 3 months ago

Wish we could get a couple of those cheap calls.

truehawkfan 13 years, 3 months ago

I don't always agree with Collins decisions either, it just drives me crazy when people get on here and start bashing a KU player for doing what the head coach told us all from the very beginning that he would be asking him to do. 18-20 shots per game. So let him do what he is told to do and be consistent with your rants. By the way, how many dunks does Cole have today!! Nice job by him holding his post and getting himself open looks.

Theutus 13 years, 3 months ago

Cole just bailed Collins out on that craptastic me vs. the team attempt.

fansincewilt 13 years, 3 months ago

Please get that ball to Cole. They have no answer for Cole.

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago

Still out rebounded with 1:07 to go. Amazing.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

That idiot dare he make 2 free throws!!!!

optichawk 13 years, 3 months ago

NDSU is all about Woodside...not as impressed with the other "high scorers"


kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

There Collins goes again.....scoring points.

Man...he's terrible!!

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago

Rebounds finally even with .45 to go.

OCJHAWK 13 years, 3 months ago

Ditto Jaybate this been a weird game personnel wise. We have been in control the whole game in my mind, just close enough a few mistakes could cost us dearly.

Rock Chalk round of 32

champhawk10 13 years, 3 months ago

Way to go on the FT Collins. I know you may force things a lot of times and don't get it in to Cole enough but without you we'd be nothing. Quit the Sherron bashings. It makes me sick

ahawk 13 years, 3 months ago

by far the best "14 seed". Why couldn't we have gotten Cornell?

Lance Hobson 13 years, 3 months ago

Congrats on avoiding the first round upset guys! That's the first step...

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago really amaze me.....

Collins- 32 points!!!!!!!!!!!

And the whole game you're telling everyone on this board how terrible he is.

You might want to apologize now.

cwag 13 years, 3 months ago

Good win - 55 points from our studs.

truehawkfan 13 years, 3 months ago

You have to appreciate how NDSU came out and played today. Woodside has proved that he is one hell of a player. They had a great season and are very well coached. Collins had a great day, and Cole was just huge. I still think the twins are going to have to bring a rebounding presence if we are going to go as deep as I think we can. Cole can't grab all of our rebounds. Our guards seem to do a decent job rebounding but our 4 men need to come in with one thing on their mind, rebound. I am pretty sure Self will be ranting about that for a while after this game. Great win by Okie State. Big 12 is doing well, keep it up.

Lance Hobson 13 years, 3 months ago

OSU beats Tennessee! Great start by the Big 12!

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago

Took their best shot on their hot shooting night and on one of our cool shooting nights and won by ten. This is the way I hoped it played out, though I hated being outrebounded. Now we bring our hot hand to the WVU game and run the Huggo-Muggo ballers off the floor, while they are trying to kick and trip and slug us. Yeeee hawwwww. Then we get our shot at avenging Ratso Izzo laughing at us in East Lansing.

Bring me the head of Roberto Huggo-Muggo on a pike.

I want Ratso Izzo. I want him baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!!!

Post Script: What happened to Mario Little? How does this guy do the disappearing act against NDSU even?

champhawk10 13 years, 3 months ago

Kenneth although a little aggresive I have to agree with most of your points. i think a lot of fans look at Collins and all his mistakes and don't realize how his contributions far way out his mistakes. Rock Chalk. bring on huggie bear

cwag 13 years, 3 months ago

Big XII now 5-0

Mizzwho will have to win without my help.....

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

I am truly shocked by the crap that is being written on this board about our team-especially Collins. Some of you desperately need to get a life.

What do you expect....perfection????

Guess what.....they are human!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some of you will never be happy unless KU wins every single game.....wins by 80 points......and gets a National Title every single year.

Collins had 32 points.......and people like theutus are telling us how terrible he is.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

champhawk10-thanks....I don't mean to be I apologize if so....but fair weather fans just burn me up. They absolutely do.

Lance Hobson 13 years, 3 months ago

So far the Big 12 is 5-0 with a great chance of being undefeated in the first round, as long as Missou doesn't do one of their Norm Stewart-esque tourney choke jobs.

That and with KState and Baylor winning in the first round of the NIT, it's clear that the Big 12 was a lot stronger than people thought this year.

bulldawgs 13 years, 3 months ago

CBS sucks...yet another KU game where we miss the end...

I wish the guards would dribble drive a bit more...and the forwards...I agree that Little and Appleton were supposed to fill that role...even Sherron doesn't drive like he did last year...

On to Sunday!

truehawkfan 13 years, 3 months ago

Well guys, its been fun. I am going to take a poop, take a nap, and hope Missery wins for the sake of the big 12. Enjoy the rest of the day. We have survived, and we have advanced.

champhawk10 13 years, 3 months ago

agreed...being the leader of the team the expectation on Collins are very high but even with his mistakes I don't know how you can say he played horrible when he put up granted, not the best D but just like all year long...we don't stand a chance without him

osagefire209 13 years, 3 months ago

We shouldn't be worrying about how terrible sherron collins or how good he is, The Kansas Jayhawks are a team and they win as a team. Even if Collins has a bad day or Cole the other team members needs to step up and fill in for Sherron and Cole. Yes I know that those two are the best players on the team, but Sherron and Cole cannot win a championship by themselves. It takes a team to win a championship not one or two players. The jayhawks won a championship last year with a team that had team players and not worrying about there stats. So whoever is talking crap on Sherron and Cole they should be talking about the whole team in general. I don't have to worry about this because I have realized we are going to win as a team loose as a team. So this being said lets root for the Kansas Jayhawks as they make there journey to the Final Four. ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK

Alex Wishart 13 years, 3 months ago

Cole was the effing man today. how many dunks did he have? maybe ten? Brady hit a couple big ones! Sherron was scoring and distributing to the tune of a career high in points. the twins stayed out of foul trouble. this team came together today. i loved it. a little too close for comfort but a good finish. thats what we didnt do well at the start of the season. RCJHKU!

Theutus 13 years, 3 months ago

kenneth what are you 12 years old? Honestly? For starters, i never said Collins was "terrible". Does he make "terrible" decisions repeatedly? Yes.

You see, you may call me a "fair-weather" fan, but I call you a blind one. I want this team to be BETTER. I'm not just satisfied with a "W" when any moron can see that we made a lot of stupid mistakes.

I'll go ahead and tell you right now that if Collins played smarter, he'd be the best PG in the league... Thats what pisses me off. The fact that after an entire year, he hasn't learned a damn thing. He's still stuck on the "it has to be about me" crap that we started the year with.

  1. We have one of (if not THE) best big in the game. Do we feed him the ball? Rarely. Instead of running our offense around our bigs, we rely on them to pick up offensive boards for almost all of their scoring. The irony of this is that Selfs offense pulls Aldrich out to the top of the key repeatedly for screens, which in turn means he's NOT in position for an offensive board a lot of the time.

  2. I used to think it was just me that noticed this, but according to a bar packed with a couple hundred people, it's not just me. It's BLATANTLY obvious when Collins is going to put his head down and try to take on a team all by himself. He starts at the top of the key, puts his head down and starts shoulder juking. Thats when you know, 99% of the time he's going to try to do it all himself, without a single glance to his teamates. Every time he started that crap, the entire bar I was at started groaning and saying "no no no no".

  3. Collins doesn't know when to admit he's not hitting anything. When he's on, can we win with this sloppy offense that revolves around him? Sure. When he's off, can we? Nope. I'll take the more consistent gameplay that revolves around a TEAM game, long before I ever support the 1 man team game that Collins runs.

I could keep going, but I'm pretty sure it's a wasted effort. If nothing else, you should know that I want this team to be BETTER. Actually, lets go with consistent. I don't want our wins/losses to revolve around a single player. Especially not when we don't NEED them to. We've got plenty of talent on this team, it's high time we start utilizing it, and playing smarter.

jbsd31 13 years, 3 months ago

Nice poise by the hawks today, that is the kind of opponent, and the kind of game that could have gone south pretty easily. I was glad to see Appleton get some time today, I thought he did a great job on D when he was guarding Woodside. Better than anyone else we threw at that guy at least.

Pam McCormick 13 years, 3 months ago

Good game, gave me an upset stomach a few times.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago


Let me save you a lot of time and heartbreak......You're looking for perfection. Well, my friend.....there is no such thing!!!

KU is never(never!!!) going to have a perfect game.....they will not always win by dozens,they will not alwyas beat Mizzou, they will not always win the the Big 12 and they will not always win National Titles!!!!!

I hate to be the one to break that to you.

I think you need to appreciate them for what they are......focus on their strenghts....of which Collins (again 32 points!!!) is certainly one. Trust him and the coaches....they did win a national title last year. They know what they are doing.

Now....I apologize for for going after have a right to your opinion. i just don't agree

Champs_R_Us 13 years, 3 months ago

kennethst, I couldn't agree with you more. After every game this year that Collins either has a magnificent game or a sub-par one, I check the comments to see what kind of response the "fans" have. It seems that people tend to overlook his performances when he wills our team to victory (except vs. Oklahoma--who couldn't appreciate that show?) but are quick to bash on his games when he and the team didn't fare so well. I know his type of game is the easiest to hate on considering that he takes incredibly tough and contested shots, but remember that this is his FIRST year running the show. Last year he would've been pulled immediately after an ill-advised shot, because we had 8 AMAZING players where anything but a jumpshot or layup was considered a bad offensive possession. How many great players this year? Two.

And to the people who say he can't make the post entry pass to Cole? What a joke. This game wasn't his only time demonstrating the lob to have Cole slam one down. Earlier the year, at K-State when we were mounting a comeback, Sherron backed up to nearly half-court and spread everyone wide. He then threw a 40-foot lob to Cole who, of course, finished it. Two more possessions in a row like this and we were right back in it. He might not be the best all-around post-entry passer on the team, but he is undoubtedly the best lob passer--whether it be an oop or the normal routine. And remember, Cole probably finishes 80% of lobs compared to around 50% of his back to the basket moves, so I believe Sherron's ability to feed the big man is just as important as anything.

Lastly, I direct this at every negative fan (ahem...Theutus). Why bash our team and players on a fansite like kusports? Does the team really deserve this? It's Sherron's first year starting, first year without anyone to look up to, and first year trying to help all the freshmen become men. I think he has done a valiant job considering the obstacles he's overcome. We are a proud fanbase, but after reading the posts the past few months I've come to think the championship has gotten to our heads. We're not the damn Yankees, we're the Kansas Jayhawks--a respected legacy whose tradition is matched only by our humility. We've garnered the respect of every team across the nation, so I sit here wondering why can't our own patrons support this FANTASTIC team that's developed over the last 6 months?

kupark 13 years, 3 months ago

Jaybate, 'one of our cool shooting nights'?! Really? We shot exactly 50.0%.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

CHAMPS_R_US........ nailed said it much better than I ever could......and I agree with you 100%. Thanks .

You're so right with your comparison to the Yankees.........I would never want our fan base to become that!!

Sometimes I wonder if some people forget that these really are just kids doing the absolute best they can under a ton of pressure.....and doing pretty darn well!!

Thanks again!!

Lance Hobson 13 years, 3 months ago

Kenneth, easy on the extra exclamation points!!!! I know it's March Madness, but make sure you take deep breaths and don't forget your meds. That goes for you, too Theutus.

I would say the Jaybate was right about the "cool" shooting night. That 50% scoring is deceiving because Cole had a million dunks.

kubasketball0809 13 years, 3 months ago

How Bout Sherron Dropping 32 on them Busted Bison

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago're probably right!!!!!

50% shooting? Sure ...lots of dunks.....still a good game all in all.

whitechocolate 13 years, 3 months ago

Anybody else notice how Dayton is giving WVU all it can handle in the first half? We may not get a chance to show Huggie why he shouldn't have left the Big 12.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago


Careful what you wish for-dayton is good.

whitechocolate 13 years, 3 months ago

Frankly, I don't feel like we have a choice. The Midwest, in my opinion, is the toughest region. Even after Wake, LVille, and Michigan State, you've got teams that will suddenly come out of nowhere like West Virginia, Arizona, Utah and Dayton. This bracket is full of squads that can materialize scorers and hard defense out of nowhere.

Lance Hobson 13 years, 3 months ago

Dayton is looking good, and Mizzou is struggling - look at the surprised look on my face. The Midwest is tough but I don't think we'll lose to MSU again if we can get past Dayton or WVU.

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

Collins ability is never called into question. His ability is elite among the NCAA guards. His decision making is the questionable part of his talent. Regardless of his athletic ability, his basketball IQ is not horrible, but is certainly below average and certainly not high enough to be an effective point guard. Collins would fare better as a 2-guard, but that's Bill's decision. The problem may be that Bill doesn't feel confident enough in Tyshawn to play the point. But you have to notice that a lot of the success in the second half took place when Bill moved Tyshawn to the 1 and Sherron to the 2.

Tony Bandle 13 years, 3 months ago

NCAA Victory Haiku:

Stampeding Bisons

Clawed by the Jayhawk Talons

Limping home northward

One down...five to matter what, a heck of a "transition season"!!!!!

mandomax 13 years, 3 months ago

Good win for the hawks. Also, I want to see my bracket results...

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

I don't expect perfection from Sherron...I just expect better decisions from the point guard position. It doesn't make me a Sherron-Collins-bashing KU fan. It just makes me someone who recognizes at a least a small part of what comprises good basketball play and things that need improvement. Again, those are just my observations, and Mr. Coach of the Year has the responsibility and the power to make those changes. I'm probably just spoiled from years of watching KU scorers who knew how and when to distribute the basketball (e.i. Pritchard, Hinrich, Chalmers).

JayhawkPhil64 13 years, 3 months ago

Lots of great comments about the game. The good news is that many times in the past we have had some of our longest runs in the tournament after we struggled in the first game.

Regarding another all important contest, I would say that Kennethst kicked the crap out of Thetus in thier one on one combat. Good job kennethst. Thetus, the next time you go one on one with someone on such an issue, you might want to stock up on something called perspective first.

p.s. There is a great article today in the KC Star about Cole and his family

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago


Thanks.....I appreciate it.

In retrospect.... I was too hard on Theutus.....because we both want the same thing. I just think Collins is an amazing player......and we are so fortunate to have him. I wish some fans would not get so nagative when games don't go the way they expect.

Anyway......Theutus is a KU he must be ok.

I will check out that article....thanks!

King_Kaun 13 years, 3 months ago

gritty win!! Big thanks out to the big dogs, Sherron and Cole for leading the way. Also, nice clutch 3-pointer Brady...we really needed that!!!

LET'S GO KU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lance Hobson 13 years, 3 months ago

I'm not sure we really struggled as much as we just faced a pretty solid team who had a player shooting lights out. We needed a good effort to win this game and we got it.

optichawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Oh, I wouldn't say either of them got the best of each other. Both had their points, some were just made with more exclaimation points, but in the end we all have the right to an opinion. That said, Kenny got a little excited when I merely mentioned that the twins were not in position to get rebounds in the first half...many of you agreed and so did Coach Self in the postgame interview... up until the last 5 min., they only had 6 boards between them (Marcus broke out and got 3 in the last 4 min which is great too). To the earlier point, I just assume Kenny leave his comments to himself and not try to challenge everyone who has an opinion that is different than his/hers, makes for a better post session.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago


I would agree with was draw.

I didn't mean to jump on you or anyone.....I just think we as fans(including myself) can be way too critical of these kids. I said.....we all want the same thing.....which is KU to win!

I will be more careful with my're right about that-it does make for better post session that way.

RonBurgandy 13 years, 3 months ago

kennethst (anonymous) says...

"Guess what.....they are human!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some of you will never be happy unless KU wins every single game.....wins by 80 points......and gets a National Title every single year."

Only in heaven...only in heaven.

Chris Shaw 13 years, 3 months ago

Well, I didn't like that game! We looked like we had concrete blocks on our feet. Marcus was the only player I thought that looked "Quick" and was moving his feet on defense.

How about the Big 12 going 6-0 for the first two days. I think that is huge as a conference plus it could prove all the National pundits wrong about how weak the Big 12 conference was this year. Let's see how the second round games fair.

I like the fact we're playing Dayton. They remind of a smaller athletic version of Memphis. They can't hit free throws and they don't shoot that well from long distance. I could definitely see them playing a lot of zone. I thought NDSU would take advantage of the zone because of their lack of height down-low, but they surprised me and didn't play a minute of it. Good luck against Dayton!

Greg Woolen 13 years, 3 months ago

I find it interesting that Huggy Bear said that the NCAA Tourney was easier than the Big East Tourney. Dayton thanks you for the bulletin board material, dummy.

NewtonJHawk 13 years, 3 months ago

I saw only 31 moving screens this game!!!! The refs were on top of it tonight boys. Not since the KU ISU game in '02 where there were 28 have I seen as efficient a crew!

Rock Chalk BABY!!!!!

Chris Shaw 13 years, 3 months ago

Theutus: You and "Some" other KU fans are spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, SPOILED! You continue to knock Collins. What do you want? You want to discredit Collins. Yes, I thought Collins looked a little "Slow" on the defensive end today, but maybe Woodside is just that good? I think so! Did you ever think that Sherron Collins is human just like the rest of us? Do you realize how hard it is to shoot 46 or 47 percent for a ball game putting up 26 shots? Pretty difficult. You want to continue to bash Collins and his poor shot selection, but how many times did we come down in a half court set and the other players not execute. Yes, Collins missed a couple of bunnies, but he was two misses from shooting 50 percent. I'll take the 46 percent any day of the week. I guess those 2 turnovers is what you're really upset with? Maybe it was his 8 assists he had? You do realize that he now has a 4 to 1 ast/to ratio in the NCAA tournament. LOL. WE GOT OUTREBOUNDED BY A SMALLER NDSU TEAM! Again, it's other guys stepping up and making plays. For the most part they did, but with your over zealous rant from above means you completely discredit how good of team NDSU put on the court today. You also probably thought Davidson wasn't a good team from a year ago? You probably think I'm asking a lot of questions, but I question every sentence and every negative stance you have taken towards the Jayhawks and especially Sherron Collins. I guess you'll have your moment because as soon as KU loses, you're going to come on this forum and say, "Look everybody I told you I was right and that Sherron Collins tore this team down". I will again come with a response and say, when was the rest of the team going to step up and take Collins out of this role that you continue to think is negative. 64 out of 65 tournament teams will lose their last game of the season and you can point your uninformed finger at each and every team saying that "Somebody" should have performed at a higher level. Thank god for those of us who pay the extra money to have access to all the games and not relying on uninformed fans at the bar. I'm glad I only had myself and not 200 other people to form my view.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

KU Shaw.......truly well said.

I guess we are all probably a bit spoiled .....KU is such a great team and school. But it's dangerous to have such high expectations.

I'm still on a high from last year.....and frankly I think anything they do this year is just gravy.

Collins is absolutely awesome.....and lest we forget the title game last year....the steal, the 3-pointer, and the pass to Mario. Chalmers gets lots of credit(and he deserves it).....but the win would not have been possible without Collins.

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago


Hot and cold shooting with me relates entirely to three point shooting.

In the three point era, non treys are such high percentage shots, 50% doesn't mean what it once did. It just means you are taller, or better jumpers and getting to the rim more. The midrange game is almost nonexistent, so hot or cold just doesn't apply inside the trifecta stripe.

33.3% from trey, however, is cool, cool, cool.

FairgroveJayhawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Kennesth - I disagree, you were in no way too hard on "the utus". The dude's cup is chronically half empty but constantly full of snot. He has the unfortunate disposition of a misery fan. No KU player deserves to be slammed the way he tries against Collins.

Hey utus, what are your credentials to be so flagrantly foul? do you have distemper? is it your sign on name? Better yet - keep it to yourself and head east. stop in columbia, build a house... no windows of course.

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

Fairgrove Jayhawk-I have never had a dual with Theutus before.....but I have seen many of his posts. be fair......I won't go after him any more since I really don't know him.

I just wish we could all be more supportive of a guy like Collins......he is incredible.....and we better realize it.....because he may be gone after this year. I sure hope not.

Thanks for the post! Go KU!

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago

Holding an edge in strips and TOs make it so much easier to win a game, even when you don't shoot well and the opponent has a hot hand.

KU TOs: 5


KU: +5

KU Steals: 5

NDSU Steals: 3

KU: +2

KU Steals + Strips Advantage: +7

Conversion Points with 50% FG Average and 33.3% Trey Avg: 7 x 2 = 14 x .50 = 7 points

And if you are having a hot night from trey and draining at 45%, your conversion points ratio probably spikes up to .60-.65.

KU's mantra from now on should be:

protect the ball/ steal the ball protect the ball/ steal the ball nom yo horengay yo nom yo horengay yo

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago


Is Sherron Collins human? Pretty sure. Can Sherron Collins beat me in one-on-one? Absolutely. Is Sherron Collins a great college basketball player? I think so. Is it hard to shoot 46 percent from the floor while putting up 26 shots? Sure. Does Sherron Collins exhibit poor shot selection? Well, 16 for 58 in the three games leading up to the tournament would be evidence of that. Does Sherron Collins make poor decisions for a point guard? Absolutely, which is why he works better as the 2-guard, but it's not his fault Bill full trust Tyshawn to run the point.

You're missing the point about Sherron. Part of playing basketball is practicing a little discernment and making good decisions. When you've got the hot hand, you're the scorer. When you're ice cold, you take fewer shots. When you're big guys are having their way in the paint, you work the ball inside. When the big guys aren't contributing, you take the outside jumpers. This is common sense.

That's my biggest beef with Sherron...his decision making. He's awesome to watch when he's on fire...the Oklahoma game was one of the best...but he still makes horrible decisions. He's got a scorer's mentality, which is not a bad thing, but which certainly doesn't make him a point guard. I guess all in all, my personal assessment of Collins is great athlete, poor basketball IQ.

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

Oh one more thing...Sherron's assist to turnover ratio for the year was 1.5 to please don't try to argue that he's a good passer.

I'm just trying to be realistic here. Collins is good...but he's not great...and statistically he's not even in the top 20 all-time KU players.

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago


Always feel free to contradict Theutus. I do sometimes just to start my day off right. He thrives on it. It makes him happy. He's a good sport about it. He dishes it out, but he can also take it. He is just passionate about the game and he will iterate through the wilderness of his discontent with Collins. Its even possible that he's an anti-matter universe.

If there is one thing I have learned while being a board rat here it is this: some persons need crime and punishment to help them negotiate through sticky wickets of thought about the darnest things. There is no accounting for persons not liking a point guard who scores 32 points at his coach's insistence to win a first round NCAA tourney game, other than to say that Theutus is dealing with exceedingly deep and protracted inner demons and that he is trying to work through via a mythology about Sherron Collins. Whatever drives Theutus, and others like him, I just want them to wake up some morning and feel the weight lifted from them, as if after one has dreamed a nightmare again and again, and finally worked through it to find that afterall, the fear not something to fear at all, but to embrace and accept as one of the varieties of basketball experience.

I don't pretend to understand why persons perseverate negatively on Sherron Collins. It is just a fact. Maybe he is too manly for them. We live in an effeminate age. Maybe there is something deeply frightening about such a manly man as Sarge in the era of institutionalized androgyny. Or maybe he just shoots too much, as they say. But if he shoots too much for their taste, then, of course, Bill Self must rate as an idiot in their estimations, because Bill Self has encouraged this sort of attack offense from Sherronatron all season long.

The hopeful news is this: all the folks coming on irrationally about this or that player, about this or that style of play, etc., all come around eventually, because they love the game and because the game is this light in the darkness of mystery and confusion and pain. It keeps calling us all toward it. And it is so elegant, and the way the players play it is always tilting toward that elegance. No amount of confusion about the game, and no lie about the game, can live forever.

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago

Basketball is so much more profound than baseball, or football, or Super Mario.

Basketball is infinite variation within the limits of two goals 90 feet apart.

It is played on a horizontal quaternity.

Its vertical limit is undefined.

At the center is the Jayhawk--the absurd mythical bird that asks no quarter and gives none for no coherent reason.

Through the three dimensions the young men go aerial on the eyes and slug it out horizontally.

Heroism and foolhardiness commingle.

Excellence and incompetance dance like inverted angels on the edge of a rim.

The legacy is the beauty. The future is always now.

Theutus is merely Theiterating towards Theinfinite derivative and integral under the arcing curve of the orange sphere on its way to a swish or a miss. Newton may have thought he contrived the Caluculus for canon balls, but Sir Isaac too was connected to the collective unconsciousness that spans not only horizontally across Time Zero, but longitudinally through the bewitching corridor of time past to time future.

Here, then, now, always, Lawrence, Kansas, Allen Field House, center circle.

Run. Jump. Dribble. Pass. Shoot.

Do it again.

Theutus is working out a problem in the middle of the pageant.

Let him.

cklarock 13 years, 3 months ago

That was a fantastic performance by Sherron. I like the way he plays, and I appreciate his basketball abandon. He creates so many problems for opposition defenses, and make or miss them is willing to shoulder the burden -- it's Sherron's team, and it's because of Sherron that we've gone so far past our expectations this season.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago


Sherron's assist/TO ratio is unconventionally low.

So was Wilt Chamberlain's free throw shooting.

Great players have achilles heels, as do all other players.

The Achilles Heels of the great ones stick out all the more, because the great ones are relied upon so incredibly much by their coaches and their teams.

One only has to look at last year to see what Sherron Collins could do in a diversified team. He could lead it to a National Championship even on bad wheels.

As a freshman, on a very good team the year before, his play was so inspired that Coach Self told Fran Fraschilla that Collins may have been the best player on the team.

This year playing with a bunch of green wood and several players who many here contend are not even good enough to be playing significant minutes on anything but a mid major, Sherron has carried the team on his back to conference championship and a 3 seed in the NCAA tournament. I don't think people stop and think what a three seed means. It means KU's Collins green team was voted the third best team in the entire midwest region. That is an enormous accomplishment for a guy playing with inexperienced team mates, several of whom people here stupidly say are not fit to carry the jock strap of bonafide Division One basketball players (e.g., Brady Morningstar).

Being down on Sherron is as illogical as swearing Brady can't possibly play 30 minutes a game an defend the other teams best perimeter threat.

You and others sound like Flat Earthers by this time of the season. Don't you get it yet?

Even if they get hammered the next game, Sherron and Brady and the whole darned wonderful team has proved you guys wrong long ago.

And I believe the reason you attack players like Sherron and Brady is because you haven't got the reproductive organs to go after Coach Bill Self.

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago

Coach Bill Self is who strung the bow on this team.

He is who assigned the roles.

He is who says Sherron gets 26 shots today even though he only makes 12.

If you've got a bone to pick with the way the players play, when they are precisely carrying out the roles assigned to them, and they are winning doing it, how about you stand up like a man with a pair and claim you know more about Division One basketball than Bill Self.

If you do, I will thoroughly enjoy watching you receive the tarring and feathering you and other like you richly deserve on this particular subject.

But of course you won't take on Coach Self...not when he's winning. You'll wait to do that when he has a down year.

Sherron is one of the two greatest point guards of all time at KU. Darnell Valentine is the only guy who might have been better and of course, but Darnell played at KU at a time when there weren't guys like Mario Chalmers and RR already here when he arrived. And when Darnell did have some good players around him, he couldn't win a ring with them, could he?

I guaran-damn-ty you that if KU had had the current bunch of players Sherron's freshman year that are here this year, Sherron would have started every game and he would have scored 18-20 ppg as a freshman, too.

It actually kind of scares me that there are a significant number of KU people who think Sherron Collin is anything but an exceptional basketball player. It makes me think that the KU basketball fan is dumbing down along with the dumbing down evidenced in society as a whole.

Say it ain't so.

In closing, no one is saying Sherron is Oscar Robertson, or Magic Johnson. They are just saying he is one of the two or three best point guards in the history of KU basketball. For whatever reason, KU has not been blessed with one of the all time greats at point guard. But it has had a few pretty good ones. Sherron stacks up very well against all of them, almost certainly better than all but one or two (Darnell and Kirk), as I said. And he's been a bigger winner than either of them (a ring) and he's played more PG than Kirk (or for that matter Jo Jo) did.

Rock Chalk.

Larry Smith 13 years, 3 months ago

Theutus is one of those people that are never happy with anything. Always ready to critcize, but never one to praise when things go well.

Theutus is the one who said that last years guards "get beat on nearly every possesion"

Theutus is the one who said last year that Coach Self was not the right coach for this team.

Theutus is the one who said that Collins should have been benched in the Campionship game.

Theutus is the one who said that Serron needs to accept the fact that he is not a "go-to" guy.

Theutus is the one who said we would not even make the tournament this year.

Theutus is the one who has been on Collins' back all season. When Collins has a great or even good game, he is not around to post anything positive.

Has Theutus ever posted a positive comment?

Maybe it was last year when Theutus posted during the Championship game about Coach Self failing, that I realized that no matter what, he could never find a positve word to say. Some people just don't have it in them. They try to defend their position by saying "I'm just a realist".

Regardless of the fact that from day 1, coach Self has said that he expects Sherron to take at least 20 shots per game. Coach also said that if he did not, we would probably struggle this year scoring points. Theutus just can't seem to come to grips with this fact.

I for one, fall into the camp that coach Self knows how he wants to run this team. So, I will let him do his thing, and as a Hawk Fan, I will enjoy the ride.

Tony Bandle 13 years, 3 months ago

No offense to anyone, but I am not offended by anyone's comments. To react with passion to another's opinion opposite your's indicates a shared passion that makes us all brothers and sisters in the shadow of Jayhawk Nation.

Sherron makes mistakes just as HCBS calls bad plays or Cole misses dunks or Tyshawn throws a ball out of bounds. It's OK to expect better, it's OK to express your frustration, it's OK to defend their actions.

Please step back and embrace this entire season whereby a bunch of kids under the direction of one of America's finest coaching staffs, continue to exceed expectations, to delight, surprise and sometimes drive us to's a gift that we are blessed to be part of this grand tradition of excellence.

I feel for the many thousands of fans who will never know what we Jayhawks get to ex perience every season. Roll down the window, stick your head out and enjoy the ride my friends.


InfiniteJ 13 years, 3 months ago

Uhhhhhhh......what the hell is a "Campionship game"?

Theutus 13 years, 3 months ago

I absolutely can't stand Collins. I'll tell you that upfront. I hope an NBA team takes him on hype alone, and takes him off our hands. (Although that won't happen realistically).

Last year when I said "our guards were getting beat". They were. As noticed by everyone else who was watching. Kind of like today, when all our guards got beat by Woodside.

Everything else stands. Yes I can't stand Collins, win or lose. Saying I dont' support the team? Maybe you missed all the props i've been singing about Morningstar, Taylor, Aldrich, and even Releford and the Twins.

Keep crying about it, i'm going to keep bashing Collins until he stops costing us dozens of possessions.

InfiniteJ 13 years, 3 months ago

Dude, Sherron Collins is not one of the two best point guards in KU history. I'd put Collins in the top 5, maybe, but sure as hell not top 2. I'd take Jacque Vaughn and Adonis Jordon over Collins......he (Collins) is too wreckless with the ball and shoots a lot of BS that he has no business shooting.

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago

Dear Dudely InfiniteJ,

He is.

He does what the coach tells him and does it so well that the Coach Self just has him keep doing it.

And it is safe to say that no other point guard in the history of KU basketball ever took this green of a team to this good of a record and a conference win and to the second round (so far) of the NCAA tourney on the heels of winning a national championship.

I just love saying Sherron has a ring to you clowns. It is so fun to say.

I also like repeating conference champion with a green team to you folks.

What is it? Bovine excreters talk, while the doers like Sherron get it done.

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago


Sherron is not a point guard. See previous arguments.

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago


In regards to your previous comments:

Wilt Chamberlain was a big guy. Big guys aren't expected to make free throws. Sherron Collins is considered a point guard. Point guards aren't supposed to have low assist to turnover ratios. To call his assist to turnover ratio "unconventional" is to say that he's somehow redefined the point guard position. I would be the first to dispute this.

BCRavenJHawkfan 13 years, 3 months ago

I usually don't jump in with attitude but I have now reached by limit on the Collins bashing.

Assuming the box score is correct, the man had fewer turn overs than Woodside (Collins 2, Woodside 6). For those that didn't think he distributed, the man had more assists than anyone (Collins 6, Woodside 2).

Now, did Collins come out on the short end shooting? Yes, but then again has he ever been considered a sharpshooter? As far as the drives into traffic, you bashers know as well as I do, this is done with intentions of drawing fouls. The calls don't always come and that is a chance one takes.

If you want to be critical of other areas of his game I will most defenitely listen, but damn it he took care of ball better this time than in games past.

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

Kirk Hinrich, Kevin Pritchard, Mario Chalmers, Darnell Valentine, Ryan Robertson...all better point guards than Sherron Collins. Some of they didn't play point guard full time, but they still played the position better when given the oppurtunity.

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago


That's one game. His assist to turnover ratio for the season was 1.5 to 1. Gotta look at the big picture.

Dan Harris 13 years, 3 months ago

Great win Hawks. The first one sometimes is the hardest. Now lets come out focused for Dayton!

thesquad 13 years, 3 months ago

Can we just forget about the past and focus on what's coming up?

I'd say so far Sherron has played pretty damn well in the tournament. 32 points, 8 assists, 2 turnovers.

If we lose then it will be his fault, and if find a way to win it all there will still be people finding a way to bash him. Hopefully that's not most of us.

I'm pretty damn glad Sherron Collins is on our team, we would SUCK without him.

Let's just sit back, relax, and enjoy the tourney run.

Be hawks fans whether we all agree on everything or not.

Rock Chalk Championship

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

Collins rode the coattails of Chalmers, Rush, and Arthur. A lot of people like to point how Collins hit a three late in the game and made the pass to Chalmers to set up the famous three pointer, but only after he had one or two costly turnovers just before all of that...and even his pass to Chalmers, he almost turned it over. Watch the's the truth.

Again...not saying Collins is horrible. I think he's a good player. I'm just trying to be realistic in my assessment. I've seen a lot of great players come through KU, since I was fan in 88...and Sherron Collins doesn't impress me.

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

I won't dispute the fact that KU wouldn't be where they are without Sherron. He's absolutely essential, but he's realistically not as great as people make him out to be. As I've stated previously, I loved the Oklahoma game. Sherron's duel with Willie Warren was awesome to watch as a KU fan. I was out of my chair the entire time. But I can honestly say, that Sherron Collins makes more poor decisions than big plays. That's what keeps him from being great...the poor decisions.

BCRavenJHawkfan 13 years, 3 months ago


I understand and point well taken. Please don't take my post as an argument of Collins being one of KU's great guards. He is what we have to work with in the present. I honestly felt like the better performance in terms of turnovers is what helped make a difference against NDSU's laser like shooting.

It's also interesting that it was all peace, love and Beetle boots after the Oklahoma State game when he was matching threes.

Dan Harris 13 years, 3 months ago

Thetus- Did you catch Collins with your mom or what! Jeeeez! Jaybate-has your computer run out of ink yet? lol.

Larry Smith 13 years, 3 months ago

Theutus.....Everything else stands???

So, Coach Self is not the right coach for this team, coach Self failed in the Championship game, Sherron is not a go-to guy, we are not going to make the tournament? Is that what you mean when you say everything else stands?

Just Curious...

Chris Shaw 13 years, 3 months ago

Rgspringer: Does Sherron Collins make poor decisions for a point guard? Absolutely, which is why he works better as the 2-guard, but it's not his fault Bill full trust Tyshawn to run the point.

You just made my point with your statement above from one of your earlier posts. You think Sherron would be better at the two, but I don't think so. You just said that Bill does not fully trust Tyshawn at the point. Sherron Collins is playing the way he is playing this year because the rest of his teammates have not hit the ceiling yet. Is that Collins fault? No! But at some point the rest of the players will have to find a way to get that "Full Trust" as you say. Thanks for making my point.

jaybate 13 years, 3 months ago


"Sherron Collins is not a point guard." Off-planet. Oh, now I get it. You have been pulling my leg all along. You think he's great.

Seriously, this web site is not your house. What you say is not law here. You have to have some facts here to seem like something other than foolish.

Pritch and Robertson don't even belong in the consideration.

I already conceded Darnell may have been better and Kirk might have been had he played as much PG.

Next thing I know you are going to be saying Jeff Boshee was better than Sherron.

No, wait, Aubrey Nash was better than Sherron.

No, wait, Bob Kivisto was better than Sherron.

No, wait, Delvy Lewis was better than Sherron.

This is absurd.

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago


I'm not attacking you personally, but I do honestly want to know if you've ever played basketball? And if so, if' you've every truly understood the role of a point guard. When I think point guard, I think of the following qualifications (in no particular order), and a majority of true basketball fans would agree with me:

1) Floor leader 2) Distributes the basketball 3) Controls the flow of the game 4) Makes good decisions 5) Doesn't excessively turn the ball over

Sherron Collins meets criteria #1 only. Kevin Pritchard and Ryan Robertson did all of the above. Again...Sherron Collins is not a good point guard. Unfortunately he's the best he's got. My word is not final, and I'm certainly not even close to being a basketball genius, but I still feel confident enough to say that Sherron Collins is not a good point guard.

To this point, your arguments have not counteracted anything I've said. Rather than addressing my supporting arguments, you've danced around them. I'm not saying Sherron Collins is horrible. I'm not even saying that I hate Sherron Collins. I'm just saying that Sherron Collins is not a good point guard...and until you can provide solid evidence to refute that, I will remain confident in that assessment.

If Sherron Collins were suddenly to have a basketball epiphany and take on the characteristics listed above, I will stand corrected. But even if Sherron takes the Jayhawks to the National Championship playing the game he's played all season, Sherron Collins still will not be a good point guard. A good player...yes. Good point

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

In other words...the shoe (point guard position and associated responsiblities) doesn't fit.

Theutus 13 years, 3 months ago

Jayhawk86, no i missed that part.... I think Self is a great coach. I do disagree with him letting Collins run rampant on the court though... And I can't for the life of me figure out why he doesn't curtail that crap to a certain extent.

I believe in Self though; that being said it doesn't mean I agree with every decision he makes. :)

And I 100% agree with rgspringer, if Collins has an epiphany and comes out playing SMART basketball instead of "ME" basketball, then I'll gladly support him all the way. Hell, if he could make those changes, i'd be the first to beg him to come back for his senior year. My argument is that it's been a full season, and he hasn't changed at all.

Dub_D 13 years, 3 months ago

w/o Collins, team may not be dancing still or in the first place for that matter so let the man do his thing. He's got some cred afterall. rock chalk carry us collins cole hawk

kvskubball 13 years, 3 months ago

You guys are having a great debate about Sherron. I think that is part of the reason to have this kind of message board, to give our individual views. I also think that it is ok to agree to disagree, or even to harshly and so malignantly disagree, in some instances, as skewed views like Theo present, but hey he doesn't threaten or abuse his opinion, its just very anti-Collins, hopefully it is only anti-Collins the PG and not anti-Collins the person, until and unless Sherron is found guilty of something?...

IMO Sherron is a very good shooting guard, but only a slightly above average point guard. He has run the offense effectively, if not always efficiently this year, when he is much better suited to playing the 2 or being what he realistically is, a combo guard.

It amazes me that so many people can find no fault with a PG that has only a 1.5 to 1 assist-to-turnover rate (And that is after dramatic second half of the season improvement in that stat). I don't think we need to bash him, but neither do I see him as deserving of the unconditional positive accolades that many are eager to toss around. I don't agree with Theo that Collins sucks at all, but it is obvious that while he is the KU PG, he is really playing out of position.

As someone above alluded to, the key to the PG position IMO is discernment, knowing when to do what with the ball. It is very important, I would go so far as to say imperative that the PG make good decisions. KU has been blessed with many PGs who sacrificed self to better the team, Vaughn and RusRob are two who could have done more, but realized that it is best to play a team game as a team.

Sherron plays PG as a Sun around which all others orbit and defer to. Part of that is by design of the coach, part of it is the imposing of Sherron's will on the team, sometimes at inopportune times. Sometimes it works excellently because his shot is falling and he positively harnesses his energy and involves teammates, that is he makes good decisions, sometimes he puts his head down and is a bull with a temper or bad tooth mentality, with less than successful results, the Syracuse duel with Flynn is one example. Mano a mano is sometimes fun to watch on the playground, but I don't enjoy it as the method of running KU's bball team.

kvskubball 13 years, 3 months ago

I have often thought it would be great to have a great scoring point guard, like Flynn, well IMO, we have a very good shooting guard in Sherron. I don't think it can be overstated that the job of a Point Guard is to lead the TEAM, not the me. Sometimes Sherron seems to be in his own little universe, not part of the team. That hasn't been the KU way and that is part of what concerns me after the success of last year's team, which was a wonderful team and played as parts of a whole, which made the whole more than the sum of it's parts. Sometimes this year the team is less than the sum of it's parts. Early in the year, that was mostly because the green parts didn't know what they were supposed to do in crunch time. Sherron has often steered the youngsters in the right direction, sometimes he has not, because he forgot that he was the driver and not the whole car, er team.

Jaybate's response is that the team is green and thus Sherron is doing what is necessary. I think that was definitely true at the beginning of the year, but the green wood has seasoned and can be relied on more now, but the early season mindset that was so needed for Sherron to have, should now morph to one a little more balanced between scoring and distributing. It's time for his game to evolve or we will waste the green wood, or maybe under-utilize it, is a better comment. Sherron can always shoot, but that doesn't mean he should. I think Sherron has improved his decision making, but still has room to grow. Under duress, the brain often directs the body to do what has 'worked' in the past, higher order thinking is subverted by what is often called instinct, to the detriment of the body.

I am glad that Sherron is part of the KU team, he is a very good basketball player. I would also thank him for his effort this year. He has helped this team exceed expectations. I believe that for the team to continue to do that, and for KU to continue to play ball, a slight realignment would be beneficial. It really is true that it is hard to change course in mid-stream, but sometimes that rock in the middle of the stream says that we better do it!

Jaybate, one other thing. I don't like it being inferred that my intellect is somewhere below yours because I state an opinion that differs from yours. I don't like be called part of the flat earth society because I can see ways for Sherron to improve as a player and team leader, which you don't seem to think is necessary. Now whose foot is the flat earth society shoe on?

What say you, antithetical man?

Redlandsjhawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Greetings friends and fellow fans. I would like to introduce myself. I have been following KU for many years. My wife and kids have been proud Jayhawks in a sea of UCLA bruin fans and have proudly held our own. We had the great experience of being among many KU fans when we attended the Insight Bowl in Tempe last New Years Eve. Anyway... the reason I am finally posting after following this site for years is the Sherron topic I am reading. I love arguing sports with friends because after all it really doesn't mean anything to get upset about. (not politics, religion, etc etc) especially I enjoy reading all the posts on this site because everyone is so informed and respectful. Having said that; regarding Sherron Collins, if you thought this year would be the down year that maybe we wouldn't make the tournament...make no mistake. That year is NEXT YEAR after Sherron leaves for the NBA. Sherron was the real hero in the title game last year and he has been a rare talent even for KU. Anyway sorry for the long post. I look forward to joining the discussion in the future and wish all well. ROCK CHALK

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago


Well said...and I agree wholeheartedly!

Scott Smetana 13 years, 3 months ago

I'm liking the Love / Hate relationship we all have with Collins. Regardless of how this ends this year, he has entertained us all.
I still think the Morris twins will have a break out game this tourney.

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

I agree PikesPeakSmitty. I know Bill recruited them for a reason, and I times I see glimpses of that hidden potential. Their not quite as polished as I had hoped for them to be at this point in the season.

Redlandsjhawk 13 years, 3 months ago

Jaybate: Aubrey Nash! wow ther's a name I haven"t heard in a while

Pikespeaksmitty: That would be too cool if you were right about the twins. I could see that in an upset over Michigan St.

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

I'm hoping the light comes on for the Morris twins like it did for Cole in the tournament last year.

Lone_salina_kufan 13 years, 3 months ago

I still think Cole has to touch the ball more. In games like today and against Dayton, our offense should resemble the "Simien years". He should touch the ball as much as possible. Sherron was mostly great, but still at times seems to allow the personal guard battles to consume him. If he's making em, its awesome. When he's off, its classic "shoot-ya-out-of-a-game". Really hope to get another shot at Mich St. Think we'll win by double digits with a 4 day "revenge build up"

rgspringer 13 years, 3 months ago

To our advantage, Dayton doesn't statistically appear to shoot a lot of 3 pointers. Our perimeter defense tends to be a bit weak when we encounter a streaky 3-point shooter. I think Dayton's PG has attempted less than 10 3-pointers this season.

Again, just looking at statistics, Dayton's C doesn't appear to be scorer, but they're forwards can score, so the Morris twins are definitely going to have to step up...and they need to help keep Cole out of foul trouble by keeping their guys away from the hoop.

Overall, a good matchup for KU, but we can't be caught looking ahead to MSU. Go Hawks!

FairgroveJayhawk 13 years, 3 months ago

oakville, that was a funny post. unique perspective and outside the box. thanks

kennethst 13 years, 3 months ago

I agree with Jaybate...knows his stuff, that one.

Well done, Jaybate......well done.

Tony Bandle 13 years, 3 months ago


You're welcome...outside of you, me and Jaybate, most people think a Haiku is a minor league pitcher for the San Francisco Giants!!

InfiniteJ 13 years, 3 months ago

Wow! jwliddell that was a hardcore burn you through on me and Theutus, did you come up with that on the fly? You're quite the clever little girl aren't you?

Jaybate, the overall mass off verbal diarrhea that you spill on the the keyboard is quite impressive, you should totally write for Playboy, which would be another outlet for you to express your feelings and views to the public....who will inturn read the first couple of lines on your editorial and then ultimately skip to the pictures.

Just for the record I think Collins is better than Jelani Jenisse.....but not at Slamball.

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