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Stanford defeats Kansas, 60-57

  • 11:15 a.m., March 23, 2014
  • Scottrade Center, St. Loius, MO

Sunday, March 23, 2014

Arch sadness: KU’s season ends in St. Louis, in round of 32

Jayhawks shoot 33 percent in loss to Stanford

Kansas guard Andrew Wiggins, who is projected to be among the first selected in the 2014 NBA Draft answers questions in the locker room following the Jayhawks' 60-57 loss to Stanford on Sunday, March 23, 2014 at Scottrade Center in St. Louis.

Kansas guard Andrew Wiggins, who is projected to be among the first selected in the 2014 NBA Draft answers questions in the locker room following the Jayhawks' 60-57 loss to Stanford on Sunday, March 23, 2014 at Scottrade Center in St. Louis.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Bill Self, Conner Frankamp and Jamari Traylor discuss KU's season-ending loss

Kansas basketball coach Bill Self, freshman Conner Frankamp and sophomore Jamari Traylor discuss KU's season-ending loss to Stanford, in the round of 32, Sunday in St. Louis.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Johnny Dawkins, Chasson Randle and Dwight Powell discuss Stanford's win over KU

Coach Johnny Dawkins and players Chasson Randle and Dwight Powell discuss Stanford's win over Kansas on Sunday in St. Louis.

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Perry Ellis and Tarik Black discuss loss

Sophomore Perry Ellis and senior Tarik Black discuss the loss to Stanford in the third-round of the NCAA Tournament, Sunday, March 23, 2014, in St. Louis, MO.

STANFORD 60, KANSAS 57

Box score

— This is not the way Andrew Wiggins wanted his college basketball career to end, sitting in front of his locker room stall with tears welled in his eyes.

“It hurts. I feel I let my team down, my coaches, my fans, Kansas fans, everybody,” the 6-foot-8 freshman one-and-done sensation said after Kansas University’s 60-57 NCAA Tournament Round of 32 loss to Stanford on Sunday in Scottrade Center.

“I wasn’t there for my team. If I would have been there, we would have won for sure. If I would have played better, scored more, my team wins. I blame myself for this loss,” he added.

First-team all-Big 12 selection Wiggins, who was leading scorer on a KU team that won a 10th-straight regular-season Big 12 title, suffered one of his worst outings of the season against Stanford.

He scored four points off 1-of-6 shooting with four turnovers, one assist, four rebounds, two blocks and a steal in 34 minutes.

“Wherever I went I saw three people. They were keying in on me,” said Wiggins, who, like the rest of his teammates, struggled against Stanford’s 1-3-1 and 2-3 zones. He was guarded by 6-7 Josh Huestis the times the Cardinal played man.

“Whenever I went right, I saw three Stanford guys. Whenever I went left I saw three Stanford guys. That’s no excuse. You are supposed to find different ways to score and different ways to get your teammates involved. I failed to do that tonight.”

Wiggins went so far as to say Sunday’s game was the worst of his life.

“It’s the toughest loss I’ve ever had to endure,” Wiggins said. “There are no second chances now. It’s over. Like in the Big 12 tournament, if we lost there, we had one more chance here. Now there are no more chances. It hurts.”

Wiggins said he never was “in the flow. I just played so bad.”

KU coach Bill Self said Wiggins simply had “an off day.”

“He’s been so good all year long. He wasn’t aggressive today, not shooting the basketball (but) going after balls, things like that. That wasn’t the guy we’ve seen the majority of the year,” Self stated. “A lot will be put on him or me or whoever. I guess that’s the way it should be, but the kid had a great year. I hate the last game he labored like this because he obviously is better than what was shown today.”

The Jayhawks, who finished the season 25-10, had a chance to win this one late despite horrendous 32.8 percent shooting.

KU used a 7-1 run to erase a 48-42 deficit and tie the score at 49 with 5:10 left. However, Stanford had back-to-back inside baskets from Dwight Powell (15 points, seven boards) and Huestis (eight boards, six points) and led, 53-49, at 3:11. 

KU cut it to 53-51 on two Perry Ellis free throws at 2:04, but Ellis and Jamari Traylor missed inside shots at 1:17, Stanford making it 55-51 off two Powell free throws at :56.6. Stanford led, 58-51 at :32.4. Then KU freshman Conner Frankamp came in off the bench to nearly save the day.

He hit a three at :28.5 and after a Anthony Brown free throw, hit another trey at :14.9 to slice the gap to 59-57. Brown hit one of two free throws at :12.9, meaning KU had a last possession and chance to tie.

Frankamp, who was well guarded by Chasson Randle, missed a deep three with one second left. The shot was well off the mark.

“I wasn’t really open. I was trying to get the best look I could. Unfortunately I was off a bit,” said Frankamp, who had 12 points in 18 minutes. “There was nothing else I could really do (but launch shot after receiving handoff from Frank Mason),” he added. 

“I knew when that left my hands I was off. I didn’t get a great look at it. I still have to try to capitalize on that if I get another chance like that.”

Frankamp had given the Jayhawks a spark before halftime when he stole the ball from Brown and drilled a three to give the Jayhawks a 24-22 halftime advantage. 

“He is a great player. This was his coming out party, showing what he can do,” Wiggins said of Frankamp in the NCAAs. “He’s a great player. He can shoot, pass, everything. He has a bright future here.”

The Jayhawks were led Sunday by senior center Tarik Black, who had 18 points off 6-of-8 shooting with six rebounds in 26 minutes. 

Black fouled out with 5:25 left after a questionable foul call on Powell, who hit one of two free throws to give Stanford a 49-47 lead.

“I thought my hands were straight up,” Black said. “I don’t think I committed that foul. The ref didn’t say anything to me about it, he just called a foul. They do their job. They just blow the whistle and that was his choice.”

“It (Black fouling out) hurt us a lot,” Ellis, who hit three of 10 shots en route to nine points with eight boards and three turnovers. “He had a great game. He was doing very well down there. It really hurt us.”

“Without question he was best player on our team,” Self said of Black.

Several Jayhawks struggled against the (23-12) Cardinal, which advances to a Sweet 16 meeting against Dayton on Thursday in Memphis. Wayne Selden scored two points off 1-of-5 shooting; Naadir Tharpe five points off 2-of-8 shooting; Jamari Traylor three points off 1-of-8 marksmanship. Mason was 0-for-4 from the field with two free throws.

“I thought we’d play well. The guys seemed loose (before game),” Self said, noting it looked like there were nerves during the game. “We were hanging out with the guys last night. They were excited. We had some good ‘pump up’ things to show them. But it’s a little bit different pressure (in NCAAs). When things don’t go well early, this and that. We’re a young team and played young a majority of the game.”

One of the youngest players, Wiggins, will leave KU with mixed emotions.

“It’s been a great year. The season ended too early, but it was a great year,” Wiggins said..

Asked what advice he’d give Wiggins moving on, Self said: “Everything is a learning experience with young kids. This isn’t the worst thing that’s going to happen to him in his life. If it is, he’s had a charmed life, there’s no question about that. You’ve got to learn to grow from it. When you get in these positions again, maybe do something a little differently maybe to put yourself in the game or prepare or something. But hey, the kid’s had a remarkable season.

"I’m sad for our team and I’m sad for him that it wasn’t our day or his day today. But still, I don't think today should offset what he’s done for 34 games, 34 other games in which he has been terrific.”

Comments

Jeff Kilgore 1 year ago

Andrew doesn't owe KU a thing. He played well all year and put the team on his back. We just didn't shoot it very well this year which explains more than half of our losses.

Dirk Medema 1 year ago

We didn't shoot well this game.

As for the year, this was one of the best shooting teams in the last 11 years.

Jeff Kilgore 1 year ago

Dirk, this is one case where statistics don't tell the whole story. Dunks and layups push the percentages up, and they are shots. Jump shots and longer three-point shots tell much more. We don't threaten other teams with our outside game, and we haven't been threatening for several years. If I'm wrong, show me, but I'll stand by "poor shooting" as it pertains to shots outside the lane.

Ryan Zimmerman 1 year ago

yup-- high % due to the proximity to the basket. When most points come inside the paint, that'll happen

Benz Junque 1 year ago

Andrew, you were there. You just chose to be a spectator. A fitting end to a disappointing year. So much talent, yet KU was never able to get it harnessed and play to their potential. Yes, they won the conference which makes for a nice consolation prize but this team will forever go down as one of the most underachieving in recent KU history.

There was no one player that was responsible for this loss. It was a true team loss. No one really stepped up to the challenge except for Frankamp in the waning moments. That was a top to bottom failure from the head coach all the way down. Yet another season KU fans will finish saying "what if".

And at what point will KU stop recruiting combo guards and choose to recruit an elite PG and an elite shooter? It's nice that we have guys that can kind of do everything but can't do anything really well. The lack of great PG play and the lack of elite deep shooting killed this team. Eastern freaking Kentucky can recruit four guys that can shoot threes but Kansas can't recruit ONE?!?

Cody Riedy 1 year ago

Andrew White III, Brannen Greene, and Connor Frankamp were all supposed to be great outside shooters.

Dirk Medema 1 year ago

Exactly. The challenge at this point is that we have young talented guards that are still learning to play the game. EKU did far less when their 4 guys that can shoot 3's were freshmen.

And there are a slew of PG's that have been recruited - and decided to go elsewhere. If Josh Selby hadn't left early, he would have been a senior this year. {sarcasm} How time flies.

Brandon Correll 1 year ago

rio adams would have helped this team out.

Aaron Paisley 1 year ago

Rio's biggest issue on the court was that he turned the ball over every chance he had seemingly so he may not have helped as much as you think. Another potential PG KU could've had this year was a 5th year Royse Woolridge if he stayed and was redshirted. He also may not have ever evolved into someone that could've helped this year, but another one of those what if's that are so popular this time of year.

Ryan Zimmerman 1 year ago

White's time is up... I don't know if it's nerves or what, but that kid is not close to where we all thought he would be.

Walter Bridges 1 year ago

Andrew White will most likely transfer. It's too bad because he was exactly the type of player that Coach Self would in the past mold into the team concept and get the best out of him. Players like Travis Releford, Tyrell Reed and countless others who by their third and fourth seasons became major contributors. White kind of got stuck between this year's super freshman plus playing where we are deepest. Next year looks a lot like this year's team, especially if we get Myles Turner.

Andrew White should transfer to a school near his home, use his one-year wait period to get his head and game together and like Quintrell Thomas and Alex Galindo, will end up having a fine college career.

Rodney Crain 1 year ago

Agree 100%

We lost to a team without a PG for heavens sake.

Stanford repeatedly tried to give us that game and we did not have one player able to take it from them. At least we do not have to watch this mess for another game.

Ian Emerson 1 year ago

Is this in absolute joke of a fair weather fan. Our team had to play in the toughest basketball tournament in existence without the second best player on their team. An incredibly difficult task for a team with an incredibly young roster. Our offense is predicated on high low passing to our big men which is why we consistently get top ranked big men and guards tend to look past our program. It is incredibly hard to recruit high ranked point guards when they know our offense isn't centered around guard play. This is march madness, and every team in it is filled with talented D-1 players, no program anymore is a perennial winner because the talent gap between these kids is just not where it used to be. KU has never been able to harness talent? WE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP IN 08' YOU MORON. I bet this KU/coach bashing wasnt going on then....

Rodney Crain 1 year ago

Toughest basketball tournament in existence? NBA playoffs are a true grind and much more harder to win.
So S Collins, Mario, Tyshawn looked past our program? Its not that hard to recruit quality guards, we just do not focus on a PG anymore. He did not say we have never been able to harness talent, are you just ranting? We did win in 08 but that was a stacked veteran team with an unexpected B Rush on the roster. Why would anyone bash anything or anyone when you win it all? We did need a miracle comeback btw to win that game just in case you forgot. It was not like we crushed everyone.
Just a fan venting after a frustrating season. You don't have to agree, but what is the point of calling him a Moron?

Lance Cheney 1 year ago

NBA Playoffs are not harder to win. They're a best of 7 series, meaning the better team usually wins. If we played Stanford in a best of 7 series, we would win the series and move on. In this tournament, if you have one bad game, your season's over. That's what is so tough about it.

Rodney Crain 1 year ago

Lance you don't know what you are talking about lol. IN NBA you have to win 16 games, or 4 7 game series. Games are away and home not neutral courts, and You play every 2nd or 3rd day till they are done. NCAA is 6 games in 3 weeks. Against different opponents who are picked at random and seeded. Some regions are harder than others almost every year. If you are a top seed your first and maybe 2nd game is against out matched opponents. So there is some luck in who you play. In the NBA you are seeded by record. THE NBA and NHL playoffs are the hardest tournaments to win hands down in the world, anyone who knows about sports know this. The NCAA's are tough but no where near the NBA. Not even close, especially after a 81 game season. By the way I hate the NBA.

Benz Junque 1 year ago

When was the last time that the #1 or #2 seed in a conference didn't make it to the NBA Finals? It almost never happens. Why? Because over the course of a seven game series, the team with the most talent always has the chance to right the ship from a bad game and win. There is NO WAY that it is harder to win the NBA Playoffs.

There is a ZERO percent chance that if the NBA playoffs went to a single elimination format that the list of NBA champions looks anything like it does right now. You get game after game to make adjustments to fix what you aren't doing well.

More physically demanding? Sure, I'll give you that for the NBA & NHL playoffs. That's a bunch of games to play, but it is not harder to win for the best teams.

Rodney Crain 1 year ago

Benz we will agree to disagree. There is no chance in hell the NCAA tournament is a harder tournament than the NBA tournament. I will agree they are apples and oranges but the conference championship and the Finals typically match the best talent, best teams in game after game of strategy, play and adjustments. There is very little luck involved, you have to be better to win the series and do it with the extra added difficulty of playing in front of hostile crowds. Most winners of the NCAA tournament have some amount of luck involved, that is not playing better basketball that is winning a scratch off ticket. That is not hard to do, you just have to be lucky. KU was lucky in 2008 a few times. So what is harder being lucky or earning it by playing the best basketball? I will take earning it on the court, not that somebody beat the top seeds and your draw to the championship game is filled with double digit seeds. Sorry if the question is what is the toughest championship to win, its the one where you have to do it on the court against the best competition.

Benz Junque 1 year ago

Then answer me this; do you believe that Kansas would have MORE Final Fours or less if the NCAA tourney was a best of three, five or seven series for each round? The answer would obviously be MORE because eventually talent wins out over luck more than 3 times out of 7. That by definition would make it an EASIER chance to succeed for a team like Kansas that almost always has more talent on their roster than the teams they play.

Benz Junque 1 year ago

You are only applying your "luck" theory to Kansas and not to any of the teams that knock them out. Do you really think that Stanford advances to the Sweet Sixteen after best of 7 series with Kansas? If so then you are simply delusional. That means that it is HARDER for Kansas to advance in the ncaa tourney than it is if this was set up like the NBA playoffs.

You need to split it into two categories: crappy teams and good teams.It is harder for crappy teams to advance in the NBA playoffs than it is in the ncaa tourney. It is harder for good teams to advance in the ncaa tourney than it is in the NBA playoffs. Best-of series favor the team with the most talent and since we are on a Kansas board talking about Kansas, I believe that Kansas would have MORE success in an NBA style playoff than in the one and done ncaa tourney selection. Hence my belief that it is HARDER.

Rodney Crain 1 year ago

It's ok Benz I do not think your arguments out weigh mine. NBA is tougher by far to win, hands down, no discussion. Luck plays a huge part of the NCAA's. We are in a college posting area I would venture few here would agree with me, does not change that I am right. Your reasoning is way off, nothing delusional about my logic, all fact actually. Hence my belief that regardless of what team we are talking about winning the NBA championship is much harder than winning the NCAA's. Neither is easy, but proving it on the court, winning 4 series, against the best players in the world, playing every few nights, is the tougher of the two. As you so nicely, strike that angrily pointed out, the NCAA's are one night crap shoots, that you have to be lucky enough, not good enough to win.

Sam Constance 1 year ago

It seems like you guys are more or less saying the same thing here.

I think Lance's point is that the NCAA tourney is "harder" because there is more random chance involved than in the NBA playoffs. In the NBA, a team controls it's destiny--if you can't beat a team over seven games, then you are simply not as good as that team.

But in the NCAA, it doesn't matter which team is "better". I seriously doubt anyone thinks that Stanford would beat KU 4 out of times. Honestly, I think if we went on to play a 7 games series with them, we'd win in 5-6 games. But in the one-game-to-advance NCAA tournament, anything can happen. It's what makes March Madness so exciting, but it can also be frustrating for fans whose teams lose to lesser opponents.

Rich Hetherington 1 year ago

The NCAA tournament is much harder to win! Here are the reasons why: 1- Each game is a 1 game playoff where losing means you're done. You don't get to drop as many as 12 games and still win it all. 2- Each game is a new opponent. You can't plan for or make adjustments for teams following a game to prepare for the next match-up against them. In most cases you're playing a team you have not faced all season. 3- In NCAA, the field has 15 or more teams with a legitimate shot to win it all, and in years like this one, maybe as many as 25-30. In the NBA, let's face it, there's only about 8 teams that can win it, and really only maybe 4 of them with a legitimate shot of winning those 7 game series' you speak of since the good teams can survive an off night or fluky loss (or even 2-3 of them per series). There are probably other reasons, but come on!

Rodney Crain 1 year ago

I disagree, winning the NCAA has luck involved, almost every champion has had some luck to advance, maybe playing double digit seeds, or a weak region. In the NBA you have to win it on the court, not get lucky with a scratch off ticket.

Ellie Augustine 1 year ago

We won in 08 with men who developed into a team, not boys looking for a shoe deal. Self should recruit 4 star kids that will play at least 3 years, not 5 star one and done projects that need so much coaching just to leave. They are only here because the NBA says so. They never develop into Jayhawks in their soul.

Rodney Crain 1 year ago

I would have to look but there were top recruits on that 08 team. I do not remember when the NBA changed the rules on One and Done but I do agree a mix is better than all or none. I think with last years 4 starting seniors we were due for a young team like this. Next year with 2-3 freshman added to the team makes more sense then what we had this year or what KY does. It is hard to call this year a rebuilding year with so much talent but it really was.

Benz Junque 1 year ago

Just STOP. We have a bunch of freshmen playing this year because last year's team had FOUR SENIOR STARTERS that all left at once. Just a reminder than last year's team led by all those seniors lasted a grand total of one round longer in the tourney than this year's team.

Allin Herring 1 year ago

Lets see. For one we played without our best player. I know it was difficult to play without Joel but Iowa State won without one of their best players so please do not use that as an excuse. For two We do not need a OAD point guard just one that can provide leadership and pass out assists. For three it seems that Stanford had exactly zero OAD's compared to possibly 3 for us. Do we really need all these OAD's? Maybe a bunch of Thomas Robinsons rather than Wiggins, Selby or Henry's.? I bet Stanford has exactly zero "Mr NBA's" on their roster. You are correct we did win in "08 but we also lost to the likes of Belmont, VCU, Bradley and Stanford's of the world YOU MORON

Allin Herring 1 year ago

Lets see. For one we were playing without our Best player not our 2nd best, but then Iowa State was able to win without one of their best players so do not use this as an excuse. For two if we truly have 3 "MR. NBA" players on the roster then do not use their youth as an excuse. For three who says we need a OAD for a point guard? We just need one that can provide leadership and pass out assists rather tan turnovers. For Four you are correct every team has talented D-! players but then Stanford has zero OAD's and we have possibly 3. For five you are correct we did win it all in '08 but we also lost to the likes of Belmont, VCU, Bradley, and Stanford's of the world you MORON

Walter Bridges 1 year ago

Wrong again Rodney. First of all, there is a difference between playoffs and tournaments.

Every game in the NCAA tournament is a game seven. No nights off or you're gone. In the playoff system you can lose three times to the same team yet still win the series. In the playoffs, the best teams far and away make it to the finals. In the NCAA the percentage of Cinderella's greatly increases.

With all the pressure and national exposure, the NCAA is by far the toughest TOURNAMENT in basketball.

But I will say this, HCBS has been known for building great teams but now seems to have taken to the OAD concept. Obviously, no one is going to turn down Wiggins or Embiid but would Withey, TRob, the Morri or even Tyrell Reed succeeded in what seems to be a different track?

Rodney Crain 1 year ago

Sorry Walter you have no idea what you are talking about. NCAA as you say is a crap shoot, you don't have to be the best team to win. You might not even be tested as you win depending on what region you are placed, or who loses their game of luck in you region. The NBA is a constant grind where you play every few nights, against the best players, against the best teams, having to win 4 series, at opponents courts, after a 81 game season. Neither is easy but the NBA is a true test of a team, the NCAA's are a test of how lucky you are on a given night. Sorry the NCAA's are Las Vegas, the NBA is New York, one is a game of chance the other is a test of a team. I see no difference in tournament or playoffs.

Walter Bridges 1 year ago

Well, we didn't play very long and losing to #10 Stanford (playing without their best player) was not an impressive performance no matter how you look at it.

Jeff Kilgore 1 year ago

Eazy, Benz. We didn't shoot it well from the outside, but we should improve. If not, you'll be back, I'm sure!

Benz Junque 1 year ago

"Should improve". We said that about this team ALL YEAR and they didn't. They were worse in March than they were in January.

Greg Lux 1 year ago

The last two game if we got anything out of them we found we have a very very good point guard for the next 3 years. It's always hard to lose but if there is a positive Frankamp's play was a huge positive. I predict he will be the starting point guard next year and the two years after that. Tharpe showed he can play well this year, but he also showed his lack of consistency and his inability to run the team on a regular basis a real negative at times. Nothing against the young man but we need a point guard who see's the whole court and doesn't turn the ball over. Frankamp is that man going forward.

This hurts only because we were so capable of winning this game and just didn't concentrate and get the job done.

Next year and #11 will be fun to watch again as this year was most of the time.

Timothy Rake 1 year ago

Greg, I also took heart out of this game - Frankamp is a big positive moving forward, and a kid that's likely to stay 4 years.

Tony Bandle 1 year ago

OAKVILLE OBSERVATIONS FROM ST.LOUIS:

1] Obviously, Jo Jo was the hub of our offensive wheel and without him the wheel never really stabilized. [4-4 the last 8 games]

2] Tarik Black went out like a man and a warrior battling to the end. Sat with his Dad and I saw first hand where Tarik got his strength and courage.

3] Sunday afternoon, outside of Conner, they played like the freshmen and sophomores that they are.

4] Conner Frankamp is going to be one hell of a basketball player by the time he leaves KU.

5] Truthfully, no one in Crimson and Blue is ready for the NBA. Put the odds at 50/50 Jo Jo stays, but I think not experiencing an NCAA game MAY be a big factor.

6] Naadir was NOT the reason we lost to Stanford..they were just too big with Jo Jo out.

7] Do I even need to discuss the abominable officiating that was inflicted upon us? This is not an excuse.......this is first hand eyewitness fact.

8] Please don't remember Andrew by this last game..take his whole season as a portfolio....Leading Scorer, Big 12 Freshman of the Year, All Big 12, showing ODAs all over America that KU is a great place to play and learn. Always remember the smile!!

9] Perry...toughen up and show us we're all full of C##P next season.

10] 25-10, 10th Conference Big 12 Title, Top 10 virtually the whole season while having the second youngest team in Division One playing THE toughest schedule..we should be proud.

11] Next season we will be tougher and wiser with a year's experience and Cliff and Kelly and, Jo Jo decides to leave, Myles.

12] If Jo Jo stays....we will be very, very, very dangerous!!!!!

Tony Bandle 1 year ago

PS #8.."ODAs"...sigh....it's been a long day. :]

Ian Emerson 1 year ago

JoEl and Wayne will choose to stay and we will be pre season #1.

Benz Junque 1 year ago

Yippee. Will Tharpe still be playing for us? If so we are still doomed.

Armen Kurdian 1 year ago

I think the reason we lost is that we missed so many shots in the paint that we normally make. Holding an opponent to 59 is not bad, and we can score enough to win. We just didn't make shots in the paint. How many open looks under the basket and dunks did we miss?

This team was not going to win the national title, you pretty much knew that in the middle of the season, but it's painful to watch them lose a game they should have won.

Wiggins needs another year to develop, but he's gone for sure. Look at what four years did for guys like Aldrich, Withey, Vaughn, etc. If he came back next year, he'd command any salary he wanted in the NBA, and this team would be unstoppable.

KU's last game of the year is a day I dread every single year, unless it's on a Monday night.

Dirk Medema 1 year ago

Aldrich left early - 3 years.

Wiggins could use another year with Hudy. Unfortunately, he'll fit in well with the other under developed young blood of the NBA.

It would seem that watching a bunch of older bigs play might be incentive to Jo to stay and continue to learn the mature physically. He and Wiggs both have crazy skills, but not man strength.

John White 1 year ago

Command any salary? In the NBA, you don't command a salary as a rookie. You get a salary based on your draft spot. Wiggins will be #1 or #2 and get the max salary a rookie can get. There is no reason for him to stay.

Rich Hetherington 1 year ago

And even then it's only panned out once in the last 4 times/25 years. ('91, '03, '08, '12) ... SIGH

tim deegan 1 year ago

Yes to all, and one last thing... Thanks to handful of consistent and knowledgeable posters (like you and Suzi) that kept me coming back to this forum each week since November. I really enjoyed your insights and well balanced posts - not sugar coating but not doom and gloom either. Hope to see you around the boards again next fall.

Tony Bandle 1 year ago

You can count on it, thanks..but keep posting. KU basketball is a year-round obsession!! :)

Allin Herring 1 year ago

I agree with you about most of your comments except #3. I am tired of hearing the excuse that they are a bunch of young players....as possibly 3 of them are "Mr. NBA's" so their youth has nothing to do with this #5 because Joel hurt his back is probably why he will be gone next year. #8 Do we really need any more OAD's? I would rather have a bunch of Thomas Robinson's than Wiggins, Selby and Henry's. and # ten with possibly 3 "NBA players (60% of the starting roster) on the team we should have accomplished what we did and really more!

Walter Bridges 1 year ago

8] We did not lose to due to Tharpe but we sure as hell didn't lose because Stanford was too big. We can't shoot, our defense is a joke, Ellis is afraid to bang, Self did his worst job in the last several years, no go to player...

Selden, Wiggins and JoJo...Go for the $$$. The NBA is calling.

Otavio Silva 1 year ago

Thank you Andrew!! Do not feel sad! We loved this season, my wife fell in love with basketball and the Jayhawks this year. And, that is in great part because of you. Our son André plays trumpet with the KU Band. Our motivatiob was diubke, but you made it so fun and we wish you the best!

Layne Pierce 1 year ago

To be honest last part of the season did we not all see this coming. Our team was built out of bailing wire and chewing gum. Our defense was adequate but not great, and often less than adequate without JoJo.

Most of the season we were led by great single performances, but did you ever get the sense of a machine, that Self's teams often have. This was a bunch of parts that never really came together.

Defenses have learned how to play against Andrew Wiggins. You make him drive into traffic, you give him the outside shot. When he starts into the paint he leaves the ball exposed and quick players can get away from him. He is not a great shooter, and not a great scorer, he is a great athlete, who can jump out of the gym and when his outside shot is going he is unstoppable, but when it's not, he can disappear.

This team was terrible at passing. Getting the ball inside, working against zones, terrible. Our best players did not receive the ball where they needed it enough.

Is it possible for a team to have to many high school All Americans?

JoJo was relatively consistent. Selden and Wiggins were up and down. Got the feeling that they were sort of in each other's way. Selden needs to really improve on taking smaller guards to the wrack. His outside shot is extremely inconsistent.

Point guard is a very strange position on this team. Tharpe, Mason, Francamp, they all bring something to the table, but they all have issues. Next year one of them has to really step up his game.

The fact is that the team part of this team simply did not happen. With JoJo there was enough firepower to overcome that, but without him, this team was good, but certainly not great.

Wait til next year - RCJH

Sara Heath 1 year ago

Thank you Jayhawks for playing your hearts out! Can't wait for next year!

Jason Kerschner 1 year ago

6 shots. That's all he took. He was 1-6. As Kenny Smith said, you can't say he was off, because he just didn't show up. Doesn't mean he didn't have a good season, but he is not ready for the NBA. He's just not. If he can't get his shot against guys who will never play in the league, what will he do if Russell Westbrook is guarding him or Lebron? It's a shame. I understand his motives and his desire to go to the show and earn the big bucks, but even one more year of school would make him light years better.

Think of all the kids who were one and done who have believed the hype who were busts. Josh Selby, Julian Wright, Zavier Henry, Ben Maclemore the list goes on. Sure they may play in the league, they may have the money, but they aren't Derek Rose. Hell, even Derek Rose isn't Derek Rose anymore.

Look at John Wall. One and done, and is finally rounding into a good consistent player after almost 4 years in the league. Huh. Interesting how that works out. Almost 4 years to be successful. Even Paul Pierce stayed for 3 years. He wasn't ready for the league after his first year. Hell it even took him about a year in the league to round into a good player. Now he's a first ballot HOFer.

Good luck Mr. Wiggens. You'll need it. You played your heart out most of the season as did your teammates and for that I say thank you. I just wish you'd stay one more year and go from good to great.

David Kemp 1 year ago

You are right. The amount of money invested in draft pick pales in comparison to value of NBA franchise. So if player doesn't work out small amount lost, just a tax write off. But for the player a kid put out at age 22.

Benz Junque 1 year ago

Funny that you mention Russell Westbrook since NO ONE thought that Westbrook was ready for the NBA when he left...

Sam Constance 1 year ago

No one in the NBA plays defense like Stanford did yesterday, with multiple players focusing on one guy. No one. Partly because of the rules against "illegal defense" to prevent things like that, but also because on most NBA rosters, you double (or triple) team anyone for any period of time, the other players on the roster will make you pay.

Not even Lebron gets that kind of defensive treatment.

So while I agree that Wiggins has elements of his game he needs to work on, and am equally disappointed that he only took 6 shots, I don't think he's going to struggle the same way in the NBA that he did at times in college, as counterintuitive as that may seem.

Jeff Kilgore 1 year ago

Sam, you are dead on. Stop Wiggins. Stop Kansas. Pretty simple.

Joe Baker 1 year ago

Heads up Andrew. You don't need a championship to be a champion. This was a hell of a season that came to a crazy end. This is life and you just have to get up and move forward. You're young and this can't define you. You are more than one lousy game. You have much more to accomplish.

David Williams 1 year ago

Agree that this team was young and simply did not have the mojo (read: hunger and maturity) to take it to the next level. I also agree that Wiggins is not ready for the NBA...a great athlete, but too young and unproven. Doesn't show up vs tenth-seed Stanford, and he wants to play in the NBA? Maybe Joel will stay one more year, both to heal and to mature and improve. It will do him a lot of good...as it would AW if he were to stay. This is a prime example (as are others listed above) that OAD is a bad policy for everyone over the long haul. Why are people saying that Conner will be a great player by the time he leaves KU? Because he will be in Lawrence longer and allow himself to mature and develop into his potential. I am not sad that the season is over...they went about as far as they could. Self did a great job - also as noted the 2nd-youngest D1 team with the toughest schedule...until next November....

Benz Junque 1 year ago

There are tons of games where stars don't show up in the NBA. What does that have to do with anything? He's ready to get started in the NBA. He doesn't need to be an All Star from day one. In five years he'll be an NBA All Star with a skill set similar to Paul George and we'll all be sitting here saying "I wish we would have had him for more than one year". So it goes.

Kent Kossoy 1 year ago

All said and done this was a very tough year to watch. Clearly the best recruiting class ever, with the the least production. Yet to understand the importance of a one and done to the program. And if your OAD player is having a bad day then he gets benched. Simple. These are young men and they will do fine in life. But this year's team wasn't as much fun. In the end, I think they were seeded too high. 25-9 is a 3 or 4 at best. I figured at the start of the tourney, which game would they lose, unlike other years. So my advice is pass on the next one and done. There are others who are just as productive.

Benz Junque 1 year ago

They were seeded exactly as they should have been. Seedings are a reflection of your accomplishments through the season and KU's accomplishments were worthy of a #2 seed. They just underperformed the last few weeks.

Benz Junque 1 year ago

PASS on the next OAD? What do you think our record would be this year with a less talented player than Andrew Wiggins? WORSE. Wiggins had a bad game but he was not the reason why this team struggled this year. He was one of the few players on the team that played consistently good defense. The vast majority of the rest of the defense was abjectly terrible.

I am a firm believer that a team takes on the mentality of its leader and unfortunately this team took on the mentality of Naadir Tharpe. Careless with the ball. Shrinking from the big moments. Unable to hit outside shots consistently. Poor decision making. Lack of aggressiveness on both offense and defense.

Tharpe's shortcomings as a player read like a laundry list of what was wrong with this team over the course of the year. It's not a coincidence.

Suzi Marshall 1 year ago

Wiggins and Selden put a black eye on the weekend commencing with that giggly interview. I'm sure they had no idea but they disrespected our opponents, Stanford, and the Kansas program with their conduct. Then on top of that, they go out and play like they don’t give a damm. The two played like the immature children they displayed during the presser, combining for six points on 2 for 13 shooting, along with 6 rebounds. How many times did Wiggins (toss Ellis in this one as well) have rebounding position only to not jump for the ball allowing a Cardinal player to grab the ball. One huge one was late where the Stanford guy went up right over Wiggins, whose hands never even cleared the rim.

Self also need to reassess how to get a team ready to play big games and how to coach them. It’s beyond question Tharpe should never be on the floor, let alone wear a Kansas uniform. Like the SDSU game (and others), the team needed shooting. Tharpe, Mason, Wiggins, Selden and Jamari combined for 16% shooting (5-31). Ellis was able to bring that average up to 19% by tossing in 3 of 10. He was foolish not playing Frankamp more or even starting him in the second half.

I don't even want to look at our stats around the rim and in the paint. I’ve not seen a Kansas team this soft since the LB era. I’m really happy they managed to win the Big 12 but am glad this season is over. Frankly, I hope Wiggins, Ellis, Tharpe and Selden all leave.

John Myers 1 year ago

Normally your posts seem pretty solid. This one? Yeah, not so much.

Suzi Marshall 1 year ago

The presser set me back some and then the way they played...ugh. Don't you think Frankamp should have been playing most of the second half instead of Tharpe?

I just got the at the rim stats...9 of 22 for 41%! When was the last time you saw those kind of numbers from a Kansas team... perhaps '82 or '83. If that doesn't spell soft, what does?

Recall all the talk post Nova, UTEP, UF, SDSU, UT Austin, ISU KC about PG play and the need to get more shooting in the line up. Never really happened. This has to go down as Self's worst years since he's been at Kansas.

Benz Junque 1 year ago

After watchig Frankmp come in and immediately give up aturnovr ad then a blow by?No, I do not. Frankamp is fine in short bursts but he isn't the answer. EVERYONE on the team sucked yesterday; the adition of Frankamp changes nothing. This was a collective failure, coaching staff included.

Suzi Marshall 1 year ago

I'm not saying CF is the complete answer. Only referring to getting the W yesterday. CF was shooting the ball with confidence when we desperately needed it...Self needed to go with him in the second half.

I agree it was a collective failure and one of Self's bad games.

Benz Junque 1 year ago

Everyone's a good coach with the results in hand. I am not a big fan of the "we should have done this" as if we are fortune tellers that know it would have resulted in the answer we wanted.

Self does have some soul searching to do to figure out what he can do better to better prepare his teams for the tourney. He does not have enough tricks in his bag and his teams are not fully prepared to handle the different offenses and defenses that they will see in the tourney. This is too many years of getting beat by inferior teams.

When you are the head coach at Kansas and you have the resources and recruits available to you that you do but half of your appearances in the tourney result in losses to a double digit seed there is a problem.

Dirk Medema 1 year ago

That one huge one late that Wiggins didn't jump for was because Huestis had just pushed him in the back and under the basket. Was it Huestis or Nastic that drew the charging foul on Wiggs early in the game. Unfortunately, that sort of set the tone for the game. We didn't handle their physical presence up front in particular, as was the case in many of the losses this year.

Hopefully, Ellis only goes so far as to the Hudy closet. He has gotten so much stronger each year, but still needs an extra measure of strength/toughness. Connor will likely follow the similar path, so that he has more games closer to this one next year, and fewer like the rest of the year (28% from 3, including yesterday's 0-fer). Maybe he can just take Wayne to the gym for shooting drills.

Mike Riches 1 year ago

I'm sure Self is questioning (among a thousand other things tonight) how he could have gotten this young team better prepared for this game. Who should he get some advice from? Maybe the winningest active D-1 coach? Wait his team lost in the last round. 2nd place? Nope, Cuse lost yesterday. 3rd place? Roy lost today too...to Baylor. 4th? West Virginia lost in the first round of the NIT... 68 teams, 67 losers...that doesn't change the fact that Self, though not perfect, is one of the best in the business.

Suzi Marshall 1 year ago

Yes he is. I'd love to get in his head to try to understand why he leaves Tharpe as our PG.

Mike Riches 1 year ago

I agree, but this season was tough. I love Mason but he was anything but consistent this year. After Friday's game, maybe the right move would have been to start Conner at the point this year... Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but I can see where it would have been tough to pull Tharpe, without a more sure second option. And it didn't help that Tharpe had a handful of really good games (at least offensively). I'll be very interested to see what happens next year at PG. I think I'd love to see Conner start.

Rodney Crain 1 year ago

I agree Suzi, I think Tharpe must have pictures or a video or something. He starts him the 2nd half and within seconds he turns the ball over. We are on our heels for 5 minutes trying to get the momentum back. I mean my god, quit putting the spoiled milk back in the fridge lol... It aint going to get better.

Sam Constance 1 year ago

Because there wasn't a better option?

Think about it. He had two (maybe three) choices. One is a guy who is maddeningly inconsistent, but at least has 2 years in Self's system and can presumably act as the coach on the floor. The other is a guy who is maddeningly inconsistent, but is also a freshman. Far from an ideal choice and in spite of people calling for Naadir's head and saying asinine things like 'he doesn't deserve to wear a Kansas jersey', he had a reasonably competent season. His A/TO ratio was 13th in the COUNTRY out of players who averaged at least 5 assists per game, and he shot a respectable percentage from three.

His problem is that he's an inconsistent point guard who isn't a great leader on a team that was the second youngest in the entire NCAA. It's a terrible situation for him to be the "best" option at PG, and we paid the price for it. But to suggest that he doesn't deserve to wear the uniform is just petty and the kind of garbage that we as fans shouldn't subject our own players to.

I'm not saying you have to be happy with this season's finish, but have some maturity and handle it with at least as much class as you apparently expected Wiggins and Selden to have at their press conference. At least they have the excuse of being 18/19-year-old kids.

Suzi Marshall 1 year ago

Sam, you are right to call me out on that statement. Perhaps a more correct extension would be to say "he doesn't deserver to wear a starting PG Kansas jersey."

I agree early in the season Tharpe was the best answer but not since SDSU, although he had a couple of good games during conference. It was clear after SDSU that the team needed to develop a PG to take us into the NCAAs. I do think Self gave CF chances only to have him fall short but the need remained.

CF played well in the round of 64. When he continued to play well vs Stanford and then shoot with confidence, Self should have road that hand in the second half.

Jeff Kilgore 1 year ago

He explained after the game that Tharpe, (who I still like) and Mason were more likely to split the zone and get us close looks. He said, "We had to score inside" and I agree. This team, beyond Frankamp, just couldn't find the bucket. Not so surprising, really.

Rodney Crain 1 year ago

I think you are right on spot Suzi. Nothing wrong calling it like you see it.

Rodney Atkinson 1 year ago

seriously? come out of the clouds Suzi!!

Scott Gruhn 1 year ago

Looks like someone hacked Suzi's account.

DaNeille Davis 1 year ago

No more OADs. They do nothing for team chemistry, maturity, or experience. This team lacked confidence. We have more success with the 3-4 star players after they have spent a few years in the system, getting stronger, learning how to play at a higher level, getting better, and maturing. This team frustrated the hell out of me all season. Their youth, inexperience, inconsistency, and fear drove me crazy! Wiggins had a few good games but disappeared in many and got manhandled. I sure don't know how the hell he's going to be able to handle those bigger, stronger players in the nba. This loss today was on the shoulders of Ellis, Wiggins, Tharpe, and Seldon. They all played like crap. I feel so bad for Black. He's been the hardest worker in games for us and had a chance to play again in Memphis. He and Connor kept us in the game and played with heart and energy. Can't say that for anyone else. And how the hell do you go through a whole season and not figure out how to play against a zone! Geez!

Bernard Gregory 1 year ago

someone of you posters are so biased its ridiculous, someone of you will never give Frank credit for nothing because although his shot wasn't on he played a helluva game and easily could have 7 assists if the players would have finished

Benz Junque 1 year ago

When you have to replace all five starters you are going to have young players. You are going to have a team that has never played together in a starters role. Whether they stay four years or one year, they are all freshmen when they first get here. The classes simply aligned and put KU in a situation where we lost a ton of key guys all at once. It's not the OAD policy or recruiting that put us here; it was losing a bunch of seniors all at the same time.

Next year's team will have a senior in Tharpe, a junior in Ellis, a pair of sophs in Selden and Embiid (I hope) and a bunch of guys on the bench that will all have more experience than they did this year. The year after that we will have even more experience as Ellis and Traylor hit their senior campaigins and this year's freshmen hit their junior years.

And I don't see Oubre as a OAD player. He has already stated that he isn't set on being that. He wants to stay as long as it takes to be ready to go the the NBA. If it takes more than a year, he is fully prepared to stay longer. Alexander? I don't know. He could be a college beast or he could be a foul machine who can barely stay on the floor. I have no idea what to expect from him next year other than some rim rattling dunks and lots of "grown man" comments.

Kelley Petersen Grammer 1 year ago

Everyone has a bad game at some point. Not Andrews fault. Self should've pulled him after it was obviously not his day. Conner was having a pretty good game from the beginning but yet he didn't get much playing time? I love KU but I have to say, I have noticed that Self has a tendency to stay with the "top names" regardless of who is actually playing better that day. He has shown that for several seasons, not just this one. He is a GREAT coach but this is something that I have noticed. I also think Wiggins and KU would benefit from him staying in school for another year. He's not ready for the NBA. Too inconsistent and no where near aggressive enough. As for Jo, he is also great but has a lot of growing to do (physically and fundamentally). He will be fantastic if he is willing to stay and put his time in with a coach like Self! Good season overall guys! I'm a proud Jayhawk fan and I can't wait for next season!

Lance Hobson 1 year ago

One and done, kind of like our tourney this year.

Mike Riches 1 year ago

I'm grateful that Wiggins decided to become a Jayhawk. Without him, we don't win a tenth straight conference title. He will be remembered for his unbelievable athleticism, humble personality, and the great ambassador he has been, and will continue to be for KU Basketball. Having said that, he must have completely understood today why Marcus Smart came back for a second year.

Pam Hartzler 1 year ago

Hmmm, so no basketball expert here, but two years of having the #1 high school recruit hasn't impressed a lot of us. In many discussions with other KU alum we all voiced the same sentiments, we are looking forward to more Ellis and Frankamp types. Leave the #1 boys to some other team. Lets focus on developing maturity and forget this one and done stuff. None of us like NBA style basketball anyway, we love the scrappy, seasoned teams of college ball. Maybe the expectation from all the hype is not fair but the one and done's don't impress us. We fans are so looking forward to those who stick around. I understand the lure of money but this one and done thing is ruining college ball. Maybe they should just let these supposed hot shots go straight from high school to the NBA and let us have the GAME back.

Tony Bandle 1 year ago

Pam, don't panic but rumor has it that Cliff Alexander our recruit and current #4 ranked '14 senior MAY be elevated to #1.....we're doomed!! :)

Lance Hobson 1 year ago

Well, I do hope this is the end of the one and done experiment for KU. Wiggins was fun to have and we enjoyed the hype, but he never really stepped up in the big games. We didn't do anything in the Big 12 tourney or NCAA tourney with these young guys. Wiggins could be great at KU eventually but asking him to carry us in a game like today's was just too much for someone so young and inexperienced.

ESPN is saying Stanford "stunned" KU. Not really. We usually squeak by teams during our deep runs so a loss like this isn't a big surprise. I wish our teams would come out with more fire in tourney games like we did against UNC in 2008. Seems like we're always getting serious late in these games and sometimes it's too late. As far as this game, it's not like a Bill Self coached team to get manhandled inside like we did, it felt much more like a Roy Williams tourney loss.

Travis Shinkle 1 year ago

I agree...this wasn't a stunner (in my opinion) because I think most honest KU fans saw this day coming back in February. There was just 'something' about this team that screamed early exit...they haven't been playing well for quite a while.

Lance Hobson 1 year ago

Our defense ranked in the 40s and offense was 5th in the nation. That is not a Bill Self team. If good scoring teams get cold in the tourney that's the end of it but good defense is good no matter what's going in in terms of tourney jitters. That's why Roy WIllams' teams lost to UTEP, Arizona, Rhode Island, etc. etc. In 2012 Tyshawn Taylor didn't make a three the entire tourney and we made it to the Final 4.

Eric Keene 1 year ago

Time to re-think recruiting one-and-dones.

Pun Mak 1 year ago

It's a shame to hear the negativity from some Kansas die hards. Did we really have a bad year what was the expectations comming in? Yes the hyped wiggins comming in with a ok class and 3 or 4 returning players non starters everyone was optimistic. I think the team over achieved. Alot of people thought wiggins would play good but not be the best player on the team. There was lots of hype on seldon but he played ok for a freshman. Embiid was a guy with lots of raw potential but most thought he would be a bencher learning from experience player like black. Ellis steped up and had an up and down season. Pg play was weak but tharpe played well and mason was a good spark plug off the bench. Frankamp is our guy next year showing some hinrik is his game. We got some good 4 year guys in mason, frankamp, green and traylor to build around and with the one and done comming in next year we be even better

Pun Mak 1 year ago

Everyone will be happy with the year we had one reality checks in. Wiggins had a good year too bad he couldn't take us far it's not his game to take over and win. Most of the games he dominated they lost. Some games he really sucked I guess it's the slow system of Kansas. He'd be better in a run and gone like Kentucky. Looking back at his decision were lucky he choose Kansas because were would we be without him. We all know if he had his choose he would take NBA if it was allowed. He said after his decision he would of went to north Carolina if his bro was 30 minutes away. He got his way to play good enough to get drafted high so his college days are over.

Beau Woolsey 1 year ago

The way so many fans turn on our players after losses always disgusts me. A loss always hurts buts it's not like it's a foreign concept every team loses, it happens. KU wouldn't have had the national focus or the attention and a lot more losses if Wiggins didn't come to KU. Complaining all the time about Tharpe and Wiggins and Selden and some people here probably complain about Tyler Self, all that complaining is best served for a Kentucky fan. Turning on the players that brought us 10 straight and possibly a championship in the future is really despicable.

Luca Rossi 1 year ago

RockkChalkk Thoughts:

1) Tough end to the season. 10th straight conference title is nice but I agree with most that us fans thought this team would make a longer run in the ncaa tourney when the season started. I see a lot of reasons as to why we fell short, see below...

2) Why no transition game???? Look at tape from our teams in recent history, they ran the court so fast and got so many transition baskets. I'm talking after missed shots, after made shots, after everything, they were pushing up the court and trying to beat the other team up the back for a quick layup or kick out for three. This was our bread and butter. The quick and easy buckets was always able to make up for the terrible passing and high number of turnovers KU teams always seem to have. This was our equalizer. When you have the best athletes on the court, the transition game should always be used to the fullest. Can't count how many times I saw baskets made and the KU guys look at each other for 5 seconds to decide who should inbound the ball, this was clearly not an aspect of the game that was a focus in practice much.

Also, if you're known as a transition team, it helps with defensive rebounding. The other team will be looking to get back on D fast and there will be less players around to get offensive rebounds, especially long ones. We gave away so many second chance opportunities this year which I think may be the root of why we were "not as good at defending" as we have been in the past.

3) This KU team was one of the deepest we've had in a long time. I think Self should have used that strength to our advantage by implementing the press. If a team only goes 6 deep, you'll barely ever see them run the press. We could have gone 10 deep and pressed teams all day long. Finding a way to get easy buckets is the name of the game, the press would have helped do that.

4) All the knuckleheads saying they don't want OADs anymore are crazy. This team didn't do well in the tourney because of a lack of confidence. They did not have experience in this situation. They played soft, timid, and missed shots all because of a lack of confidence. Yes this is because they are young and the personalities of the players but its not because of OADs. Our entire starting roster last year was gone. Only ONE was an underclassmen that left early. Our oldest returning player was Tharpe that has had his own personal struggles this year. Second would be Ellis who is not the vocal, energy inducing motivator type. Black was great being a veteran in the basketball sense but it was still his first year in the program so he had his own learning to do as well. This type of thing can happen when you don't have the upperclassmen (juniors and seniors) on your team to be the leaders. Next year, and especially in two years, we will see a huge improvement. Mix in some OAD talents with the upperclassmen leadership and that's the best recipe for a title IMO.

David Gisi 1 year ago

Thank you Tarik Black. Great game! It was a shame to see you have to walk off the court after that ridiculous 5th foul call. Obviously KU had some very poor performances by others (Wiggins, Ellis, Selden), but this was still a winnable game if that call goes right. Black was being held in the post with Stanford player having both arms wrapped around him. Only because of his size and strength was he able to get free to defend Powell's drive. Black did everything right. They could have called the hold. They could have called the charge to put Powell out of the game. Either way, KU has the ball at a critical point of the game with 3 less Stanford points on the board and Black (best KU player on the court that day) still in the game. No way should this game have come down to that call. Too many missed easy baskets. Frank Mason played well also. Only guard to get the ball into the lane and create something.

Yonatan Negash 1 year ago

First, I am just as disappointed as anyone here the season ended sooner than I would have liked. However, I am extremely proud of our players.

This was a tough season, no question. I'd have to say though, one of the biggest problems KU had this year was at the point guard position. I won’t elaborate on this topic as its not news to anyone that has been following the program the past couple of years. Well, maybe I will elaborate just a little. Without a good/great point guard it’s hard to ran a team, build chemistry, get in sync, it’s an extremely difficult task to do.

Secondly, I don't hold Andrew Wiggins accountable for this loss. We win as a team and lose as a team. However, if KU had a great/good point guard Andrew Wiggins and others would have had a better season overall.

The issue with the point guard shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone or even coach Bill Self. I am almost positive that he’s aware of the problem at the point guard position, why else would he play Connor Frankamp in the biggest game of the season?

Frankly, I will be shocked if Connor Frankamp doesn’t start at point next year. But then again, Bill Self has to overcome his demons of being too damn loyal to some of these players.

Lastly, the loss of Joel Embiid had a huge impact on Kansas. Again, that shouldn’t come as a surprise. Just look at the last six games we played. Prime example would be the Iowa State game; Georges Niang scored 25 points and completely dominated us inside, why because we didn’t have Embiid. The point here is teams who scouted us knew how to beat us, it wasn’t hard to figure out.

Teams scouting us knew our point guard was not that great; they knew to penetrate inside and get T. Black in foul trouble, and they knew to double team Andrew Wiggins, and so on. If Kansas had a great point guard, teams would have been worried about defending that point guard more often than not. Again, that wasn't the case this season.

The point is, Kansas was in trouble way before the season started. For those that question my thoughts about the point guard position please go back and look at all 10 loses and you’ll see the issue with that.

No, Andrew Wiggins is not the problem. In fact, we’d be in a world of hurt without him this year. Thanks for the memory Andrew. Best of luck in the NBA.

Kevin Long 1 year ago

Not your fault Wiggins! It just wasn't meant to be this year. I could see it all year long. Just not enough experience, too sloppy of play.

Cody Riedy 1 year ago

There is no OAD issue at KU. I still don't understand why people are talking about KUs OAD problem.

As I posted elsewhere, the ranting about OADs makes no sense. We've only recruited 3 presumed OADs in Self's entire tenure. Selby, who was injured and struggled, Henry who was fine and was surrounded by experienced players, and now Wiggins, who was the only OAD who was expected to be the centerpiece of the team and even he had a junior point guard (tharpe), a senior forward (black), a sophomore forward (ellis), and a third year sophomore forward (traylor) playing key minutes. Wiggins didn't dominate every single minute in every single game, but he was a great defender, one of our leading rebounders, and at times was electrifying with his athleticism and even on occasion his shooting.

Embiid wasn't a presumed OAD when we started recruiting him and Selden was considered an outside chance of being a OAD; both picked up hype later in the recruiting process. Mclemore, was a mid-level recruit when KU signed him. Thus, this years class, included 6 freshmen - 6 because we had no upperclassman. I guess people think we should have filled the roster with transfers? Out of those six, only one was a presumed OAD from the start. The rest, like Greene, Mason, Frankamp, and even Selden, were expected to be here two years if not a full four. Do people really think we would have been better if Wiggins wasn't here and in in his place, we had a nice three year player like Greene playing all year? Really?

Rodney Crain 1 year ago

I agree, we lost 4 starting seniors from last year, so this year we were younger than we normally are. We usually have a mix of experience, like we are going to have next year. So freshman were going to be in play no matter what this year and we had a great recruiting class. So OAD's happen, we got our share and and they both played very well overall. Folks get upset after a loss like that, I am one, and think there is something wrong with the system, the coach, players or whatever as they try to rationalize what happened. Looking to next year with Hunter playing, returning players and incoming freshman, I think we add Turner if Joel goes, we are going to have a very good if not great team. We still need a playmaker PG I have no idea how Self address's that. We have 3 backups on the roster right now and we will need a PG to maximize our success in 2015.

Cody Riedy 1 year ago

I'm really curious to see what Hunter brings. He's another part of the recruiting class, that since he couldn't play, we (or at least me), forgot about. Now, I wonder what if he had been able to fill in for the missing Embiid. Also, I posted below before I saw your comment, but I agree, we have backup point guards or undersized shooting guards, but no answer for the starting point guard position.

Beau Woolsey 1 year ago

People forget that this truly was a rebuilding year. Ku had to replace all of it's starters and my god the talent we acquired will lead KU to the promise land we just need patience. Frankcamp and Greene and Traylor and Mason all still have years to play for Kansas and that should excite everyone. With bigger and better players coming in the next few years KU will get more mature and more consistent. The only reason this year was viewed as a potential championship is because we had Joel and Andrew.

Cody Riedy 1 year ago

The Point Guard Debate and Going against the zone:

I remember last year, when Tharpe got spot minutes, everybody raving about how he needs to play all the time and how Johnson should be benched. Now we are doing the exact same thing based on about 30 minutes of playing time for Frankamp. I certainly agree that Tharpe has been inconsistent and we need better play, but I'm not sure Frankamp is ultimately the answer playing the point guard position.

For example, against Stanford, why didn't Frankamp play more? How do you beat a zone - you either shoot the defense out of it or you have to penetrate and get into the middle of the zone, Frankamp, until last night, has not, statistically, been a good outside shooter, and based on the fact that he finally made a couple in the first half, I'm not sure Self reasonably could have went to a game plan that was, "Hey, lets have, the barely six foot freshmen who has shot poorly all year start throwing up threes." Can Frankamp, be a lights out shooter in the future - maybe - but he didn't show that this year and in any case, that's what a two guard or designated three-point shooter does, not exactly a point guard. Ideally, a point guard can also facilitate, penetrate, and play lock down D on the other end. Frankamp, is too undersized to cover other teams guards. His handle is good, his speed ok, but he's shown no ability to penetrate and score or pass. What I've seen so far, is drive, stop, throw the ball back out because there's nothing for him to do. Tharpe, isn't a great finisher, but has shown the ability at times to get into the paint. Also, throughout the year, Tharpe, was our best 3-point shooter. Of course, Tharpe's D was terrible often and he is undersized as well.

So, shall we turn to Mason? Mason another undersized point guard, who is not a great shooter. He's can drive and draw fouls, but can't consistently finish for lack of size as well. He's not Sherron Collins who could shoot and finish despite his size. Mason can handle the ball and is ok as a point, but he wasn't exactly creating shots for other people. He drove and got knocked onto the floor, sometimes scoring, sometimes getting a foul, often just falling to the floor and throwing up a prayer.

There's positive and negatives about each guy, but none are "the answer" that everybody wants.

Suzi Marshall 1 year ago

Everyone agrees with what you say about our PG situation. The Stanford game was like so many others this year that cried out for outside shooting to be on the floor. With CF hitting 2 bombs, including the one right before the end of the half, Self needed to ride that hand. Plus CF had no TOs. Self' made a huge tactical error taking CF off the court in the second half.

Cody Stumma 1 year ago

Dear Coach Self:

No more "One-and-Done" players.

Jason Wilson 1 year ago

Never going to happen. What's Self supposed to do, Say "Hey I am going to turn this player down even though he's incredibly skilled and would help us immediately, because he's too highly rated. I need players that have more flaws"

Kurt Eskilson 1 year ago

Good grief. Think, people. We needed an instant-impact player this year. Wiggins led the team with 597 points and a 17.1 average. That's what an OAD did for us this year. Those are numbers that only our best 4-year seniors manage to obtain. But Wiggins did it NOW. Without him, there is no 10th Big 12 Championship and certainly nowhere near 25 wins.

Joe Baker 1 year ago

Don't look now all you OAD haters, but a very well known team with OADs just beat a pretty good WSU team. Their confidence is high and this uk team just "might" surprise yet again with their OADs. Many had them written off to the NIT again. They just might be the surprise of the tourney.

All this talk is funny. If we don't get Wiggins, people would doubt Self's ability to get OADs. If we lose a tourney without OADs, people would be bitching about needing OADs. In fact, I do believe after uk won it a few years ago, people were criticizing Self for not having OADs.

You're a liar if you don't think having OADs is a good idea. If KU passes on OADs, it would be silly. They will play some where and win too. Some say a mix of "veterans" and OADs is a good team. We just played Michigan last year in the E8 with four seniors and a redshirt soph, BMac and still lost. It doesn't matter. It's the team playing the best, consistent bball during the tourney.

I think the team last year was the best KU team with a great mixture of four seniors and a redshirt soph, but didn't have a true pg. Our biggest problem since '08 has been the pg spot. EJ was not a pg. TT was quick, but not too consistent either. Tharpe is definitely not a pg. CF didn't get to play enough until this last game against Stanford. Our bigs were lacking last year with Withey. Even Rel wasn't quite the player we needed, but he was "seasoned" and "immersed" in Self's system.

Joe Baker 1 year ago

I'm holding Self accountable rather than a bunch of 19-20 yr olds.

I hate to say this but it comes down to the lack of a pg ( a la Smart- should've been at KU) and exposed game plans. Bill Self is predictable and so easy to scout. Opposing coaches can read him like a book. Credit Johnny Dawkins, former dookie, for getting Self's number and exposing him. The zone was brilliant and Self never adjusted or the players just never responded to Self. Either way, it was a coaching failure. I also know there was some garbage about not have sufficient scouting reports? What? No scouting reports against a little known team? Dumb dumb coaching and this loss falls completely on Bill Self's preparation, not so much the players. You can stop beating on a bunch of 19-20 year olds too. They play as well as their coaches prepare them.

KU has next year.

CF/Mason (Tharpe- A junior pg and not developed.)

Selden/AW3(?)

Oubre/Green - Green may start pending Oubre's development. I don't see Oubre coming in making a bigger impact than Wiggins.

Ellis/Alexander/JTray - If Perry doesn't get aggressive, strong, and consistent, Alexander will start.

Embiid/Alexander/Mickelson- I can only hope that Mickelson has learned well during his ineligibility to back up Embiid. Lucas is lacking.

Now we get to hear how Self's end of year talk goes with each player. I expect Tharpe and AW3 to get some difficult decisions about their futures. We may see AW3 transfer and Tharpe at least lose his starting pg spot starting next year. It will light a fire under Tharpe, but he'll resort back to his under performing self. He just didn't quite develop or turn the corner.

Aaron Paisley 1 year ago

You're right, Bill Self is easy to scout. It's because he's been using the same things for 15+ years. Guess what? Coach K, Roy Williams, Jim Boeheim, John Calipari, and any other coach who has been highly successful over a long period of time are easy to scout as well. At the end of the day, it comes down to how well a coach can teach his system and how well can the players execute said game plan. Bill Self's game plan was good enough to beat Stanford, Bill Self's players execution of the game was not good enough to win. What would the discussion be like today if KU had made a few of the bunnies they missed yesterday?

Bryce Landon 1 year ago

Why the hell should Andrew feel bad? He's still gonna make millions in the NBA, which is where he really wants to be anyway. If he really felt bad about his no-show effort, he'd do what Marcus Smart did for Oklahoma State and come back to Kansas for his sophomore year and work to redeem himself.

Ethan Berger 1 year ago

because he is a competitor and they lost. We keep pointing to him being a no show on offense but if a player truly didn't care, he wouldn't play as good as Defense as Wiggins did.

Tony Bandle 1 year ago

REASONS FOR JO JO TO STAY:

1] Get stronger, faster, tougher, meaner, smarter, more moves, more experieince, more maturity.

2] Supposedly money not a family issue.

3] Outside of Tarik and Andrew his entire set of teammates is coming back.

4] One hell of a "twin tower' in the form of Cliff Alexander is coming.

5] Both he and his Dad love KU.

6] Needs to practice driving the lane and driving a car.

7] Would make Kansas a preseason favorite for the Big 12, the NCAA, Dancing With the Stars, The Voice, The Great Race and American Idol!!!

REASONS FOR JO JO TO GO:

1] Hard to say no to the number one lottery slot.

2] $$$$$, $$$$$ and more $$$$$.

3] Back injury may put doubt in his mind about risking another more serious setback and missing out.[ small chance but still a valid concern].

4] Help me here...I really can't think of any more outside of the Big Bucks!!

Suzi Marshall 1 year ago

Other reasons:

To stay - he needs to demonstrate the ability to consistently dominate

To go - the Hawks do not have an elite PG. I view the decision similar to an elite running back making a similar decision knowing he has no O-Line. Self needs to find a Kane type transfer.

Sam Constance 1 year ago

NO MORE ONE AND DONES!!!

[translation: no more top talent!!!]

People get so irrational after a freaking college sports loss. It's just more proof that the amount of attention given to the NCAA tournament is disproportionate from what it should be. When you are so upset about a loss that you are demanding that we stop recruiting the best players in the country, you need to step back and re-evaluate your priorities.

Janet Olin 1 year ago

Let's be a little bit sane with these comments, people. I don't want to hear the haters bash and blame Andrew for the loss. KU had 5 players on the floor at all times: where were the other 4 when Andrew was double-or triple-teamed and mugged by 6-10s? He played hard but was smothered (and that's not really his position anyway). One player is not a team. Andrew carried his weight this year and so did Jo, the others--- not so much.

Jack Hoover 1 year ago

Got a better answer for you Andrew. Stick around. You don't have to go to the pros. Show your loyalty by coming back, growing up and maturing, and hone your excellent skills. Show your true character by bonding with your team mates and become a better player, person, and team mate and help Kansas win the NCAA championship instead of taking them out on a date. The pro's will come and your value will increase immensley. THAT young man IS the correct thing to do. IB

Aaron Paisley 1 year ago

How did KU do the previous two times they had to replace all 5 starters under Bill Self. In 2008-09, KU went 27-8, earned a 3 seed in the NCAA tournament, and lost to Michigan St. in the Sweet 16 that year. That team started a junior, 2 sophomores, and freshmen. Let's also not forget that team could've looked significantly different if not for a some recruits that decommitted for various reasons that year. Tyshawn Taylor would not have come to KU if Tom Crean had not left Marquette to take the Indiana job and the Morris twins would not have come to KU if they had stayed with Memphis instead of decommitting. The core of that team would go on to lose to UNI in the second round the following season and to VCU in the Elite 8 the following year. Tyshawn and Releford were the only two relevant players from the 2008-09 team to play in the 2012 title game.

In 2005-06, KU went 25-7, earned 4 seed in the NCAA tournament, and lost to Bradley in the first round of the tournament. That team started 3 freshmen and 2 sophomores and the core of this team would go on to lose to UCLA in the Elite 8 the following season and win the national title in 2008. What happens to core of this team if Brandon Rush doesn't ever step foot in college and had gone straight to the NBA or if he didn't tear his ACL in an illegal workout and what if Darrell Arthur never had his dream and ended up going to Baylor instead of Kansas?

There's so much dumb luck and circumstances beyond a coach's control that determine how a team is put together that sometimes coaches are forced to fit a square peg into a round hole. What does the current team look like if Josh Selby and the Morris twins had stayed for the 2011-12 season like Self expected? Stuff like has a huge impact on the future of teams because the 2012 class would have been even bigger had those 3 stayed and it's also likely that Jamari Traylor never comes to KU because there wouldn't have been the need. There's so much fluidity and moving pieces involved in being a head coach at a place like KU and it's not an easy job to manipulate those pieces and Bill Self has done as good a job as anybody at manipulating those pieces to make KU as competitive as he can. Some moves he's made of been very good surprises and others have not worked out so well, but stuff seems to work out far more frequently then not working out for Self and that is not a coincidence.

Bion Beebe 1 year ago

I agree with Joe Baker's post that the loss goes on Self, not the players. I think coach Self is a great coach, but our offense against a zone was lousy. When you make $4 million a year, you ought to be able to figure out an offense that works against a zone and have the right players for that offense.

Ethan Berger 1 year ago

A lot of people are giving Wiggins grief for not showing up. This is the problem with Basketball. Yes, he had a bad offensive performance. Yes he lost his aggressiveness. But from the game I watched, he played lock down defense. Every guy that shot on him had to shoot over him because he was in their face. The best way to see if a player is giving up is by watching his defense. Go watch Carmelo Anthony and you will understand.

About the point guard situation, I'm not giving up on Tharpe (on the offensive end). Most the mistakes I saw this year were communication mistakes. Players who aren't used to playing with each other. Yesterday was a terrible storm of we actually didn't play that bad, we just missed so many shots. A few times Tharpe fed perfectly but the players weren't really expecting the pass. It seemed to me we were over-thinking yesterday. We just didn't go out and play ball. I will say Mason showed me a lot yesterday. His problem all year for me was once he drove, he was going to take an extremely contested shot. Yesterday, he would throw it up for a lob and our guys missed a couple of them. If he can keep penetrating and passing like yesterday, he can be real dangerous next year.

Selden should stay, I would be shocked if he left. Wiggins will be gone. Embiid is interesting. Now all the major agents and sports people will be telling him he should go to protect his top 3 pick. To me a major reason why kids jump early without much thought is because they let some douche get into their head and tell them they are the next Jordan. That they are a guaranteed top 3 pick. They listen to them and pick them as their agents. Then 5 years into the league, they are at best role players. I always hear they need to protect their $ just in case they get injured. But what confuses me is in the 80s, players would have the same concerns but stayed 3/4 years. How have injuries become worse as tech has become better? They look at Greg Oden and think that is them but he had no knees. If they can just go the a doctor who tells them they have knees, they will be fine. Hopefully Embiid makes the best choice for his basketball talent and not just because someone scared him into declaring.

Jason Wilson 1 year ago

For his own health, Embiid needs to stay another year. He developed a stress fracture because his body was overworked, and if it became overworked after 30 games, jumping straight into an 80 game season next year would be a recipe for disaster.

He's much better off taking his time in college and letting his body catch up. KU & Self will have much more patience with developing his body and keeping him healthy than an NBA GM who has many millions riding on the guy's performance. Honestly I think it should barely even be considered to jump straight to the NBA after an over-use injury like this. Actually, the #1 choice would be for him to just red-shirt and spend the next year building up his body to handle the rigors of the NBA, come back as a redshirt sophomore and showcase his talent and then jump to the NBA if he's ready.

I'm not saying that will happen, at that age the thought of not playing in games for a year is probably terrible. But his issue will never be a lack of skill or talent, his only real danger to not succeeding is jumping into something his body is not physically ready for and having it break down on him. The best way to ensure that doesn't happen is to take it slow and make sure your body is strong enough to do what is asked of it over the course of an entire season

Matt Spitzli 1 year ago

I feel less bad about this ncaa loss than any in recent memory. Hey, we didn't have our second best, and arguably our most important (due to his defensive presence), player out there. All the NCAA games were going to be dicey until he came back. I hope we were all ready for an early loss; it was likely.

Next year is going to be a great team, especially if selden comes back, and we'll have oubre, ellis, a matured frankamp, cliff, and either myles or embiid, plus hunter to backup as a rim protector. That's going to be a damned fine team. Possibly a better team than this one, and this one was very good when we had everybody healty.

After a tourney loss, I'm usually morbidly depressed for weeks, but this time I gotta say: chin up.

Tony Bandle 1 year ago

QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED IN THE NEAR AND FAR FUTURE:

1] Jo Jo..will he stay or will he go?

2] Point Guard..is there are PG out there for KU or is there already one named Naadir, Frank or Conner?

3] Perry Ellis.....will someone ever teach him to box out on rebounds?

4] Is Cliff as good as he appears to be and can that mean streak be infectious?

5] Does HCBS actually consider leaving when Tyler is done?

6] Will Bill's eventual successor be a former NCAA MVP or a guy wearing glasses?

7] Will Tarik end up in the NFL?

8] Is the Bonnie Hendrickson era over?

9] Ketchup or mustard on a hot dog...which one is Un-American?

10] Will we ever hear from Jaybate again?

Aaron Paisley 1 year ago

1) Dang it Oak, you got The Clash stuck in my head now although I suppose there are far worse songs that could be stuck in my head right now.

2) It's more than likely going to have to be someone already on the roster because there currently are no scholarships available and even if there was, there no high profile PG's out there unless someone from 2015 reclassifies.

3) Someone just needs to follow him around calling him a "kitty" all day long or something to tick him off because he is definitely baby bottom soft right now.

4) I don't think any of KU'S Chicago area recruits have ever been considered soft so I'm not really worried about that.

5) I still personally believe that Self will give the NBA a shot before he retires.

6) I'd love to see Danny coach KU, but he's not at the point yet to do that and it also depends on how long Self is here.

7) I don't think he will because he's just to tall and his knees would get destroyed.

8) I hope so. I know her contract expires at the end of the academic year do I think Zenger is just waiting for the women's tournament to end before dropping the ax on her.

9) Neither, people put both on burgers so why is it taboo to do so on a hot dog?

10) I hope so. It's always interesting to see the mind of a conspiracy theorist at work even if I didn't agree with them all the time.

Shane Johnston 1 year ago

1] If he stays, we're preseason top 3

2] I'd like to see CF settle in at the two. Let him run off screens and float. It's hard to get excited about a transfer point guard. I think Frank gets more point minutes next season.

4] I want the latter more than the former. By far.

5] Yes. He's made casual remarks recently that he won't be around forever, and hearing the nba talk preseason was uncomfortable. I wouldn't be surprised if we had him no more than two years. But I absolutely hope we do.

6] If Orlando's rebuild goes well, I'd love to see Jacque get considered

Some follow ups

a] 12 mpg for Brannen next year: over or under?

Ryan Zimmerman 1 year ago

I think a lot of this game was on Self too...

We have yet to really play well against a zone this season and this was just another case of that. Where was the high low? Where were the drives and kick outs? Where was Frankamp early in the 2nd half? Put in Greene too for at least a few more minutes to keep the defenses honest on the outside shot.

All they did during that game was passing it around the perimeter, over and over... no drives, nothing. No aggression. HCBS knew what was coming, and I'm not sure what the game plan was but it didn't work.

Wiggins was a great kid this year, but that kid crying in the stands had more passion than he has had most of the year. It's hard not to think about Wiggins just passing time this season to get to the NBA. If he REALLY was upset. If he REALLY was truly hurt by the game, he'd stay another year and plan to redeem. Yes I know he'd lose a ton by not leaving, but so .... and I can't believe I'm using this as an example....but so wouldve Marcus Smart. At least Jabari Parker is thinking about staying...But Wiggins said from day one he was gone after this freshman year.

The one and done crap is such a waste of time. You need a team to gel, not finally come together and then have to replace missing pieces every year.

Anyway, just frustrated and all, but had to get this out

Justin Carlson 1 year ago

JAYHAWK FANS!! It has been over a year since I posted on this site, maybe because we has posters have to deal with all the ads and opinion polls etc. But after this season I have to speak my peace because as a Jayhawk lifer and the wife is thankful that basketball season is over and she can now return to normal TV watching and not listen to the kids and I screaming at Self and the players these past 35 games! Let’s start the root of the problem > SELF Bill Self is the most stubborn coach I have ever seen coach a sport in my life. Is he on the short list that 350 teams would trade the farm to get for their program? Answer yes! But would KU fans be willing to give up 3 or 4 of the 10 straight league titles to develop some talent in the regular season? I want tournament success! Has Self been to “married” to his “elite” players in the tournament. Should Andrew have been playing in a game when he clearly wasn’t a factor? Did Self feel and think “I really can’t sit my star in our final game can I?” Don’t blame Wigs, Na, Selden, and Ellis for playing terrible! It is not like they were going to look at the bench and say, “coach I am sucking, not focused, can’t stay with my man, and Oh my lord coach I can’t make a wide open shot, please take me out!” This is on Self!!! I may be full of crap but I clearly remember games Wigs was clearly not a factor and Self benched him during the regular season! Why in all things that are holy can’t he bench his “elite” players when the season is on the line?
Self’s defensive approach? All of us on this board have in some fashion coached something! You take things you yourself have played and steal things from others who are successful and you mold it into what fits your team. When things aren’t working do we has coaches completely change the whole approach no, but at least you could make some tweaks. Good grief he finally pressed and wow “light on” it flipping worked. Why not on a team that you have the ability to develop a bench and run at least 10+ players out there and press before you are fighting for your season. In a game that clearly Stanford was focused on getting the ball inside why not show a zone to see if we could get a chunked couple 3’s and protect Black with foul problems. I just don’t get it! Self you are fighting for you season you need to throw you whole kitchen sink on the floor to save your season!! You sir did not! All of you that are clamoring defense was not the issue I have a rant about that in the next paragraph!! cont!

Justin Carlson 1 year ago

Self’s offense approach? The high low offense (against man) is awesome when you have superior post players and in the Stanford game we did not! Ellis will always struggle to score over strength and length. Ellis needs to get “HUDYED” and learn how to dribble and defend guards because he is not a 4! Will not play the 4 in the NBA he is a 3 period. Self’s offense is so limited it is awful! Don’t get me wrong I am an inside 1st type of guy but passing the ball to Ellis, Embiid and others it is almost a “black hole!” Is it written in the Self play book that we can’t kick it back out in a game we clearly couldn’t score over their size. What is wrong with kicking it back out of a triple team to an unguarded 3?” ZONE? My freshman daughter is a basketball geek and she can see holes in every zone as all of us can!! Why does it take 20+ games against a zone and 25 minutes in the final game to get traylor to attack from the foul line?? I would love to hear a reporter ask Self why do always struggle to adjust against a zone? Why can’t you coach against a zone. Why is flipping Scott Drew and Baylor still playing? (oops that slipped in there!!) Self’s transition approach? How many times have we heard in pressers “that was an old man’s big 10 game” game in the 50’s “muddying the game up” You can’t offensively and defensively muddy the game up with players that thrive on transition! Speed the game up Self more possessions! Create more opportunities for you athletes to score in the open court! Take chances! Create a secondary break! This team could have and should have scored 100+ on many different occasions. We scored 100 once in the last 2 seasons and that was in OT against Iowa ST last season! He has recruited athletes that thrive in the open court yet we are getting beat by teams that slow the game down and zone us!! SPEED THE GAME UP!! Turn these athletes loose!!
Self’s recruiting approach and player development? I want to ask Self, “Is your offense the reason you can’t recruit an elite PG?” Self why can’t you man up and bench a Tyshawn, an EJ, a Na, a Wigs, an Ellis when they are clearly not helping your team! We all think next year without Wigs and I see Embiid gone (comes back with more back problems his stock will fall gets healthy impresses scouts this year still a top five pick.) cont!

Justin Carlson 1 year ago

Next year will be the same problems as this year. Oubre and Alexander, we can’t predict.
But our returners Self will give the nod to Tharpe Oubre, and Selden Ellis Alexander What has changed did we really get better at the two spots that needed the most change? Mason, Conner and Greene are screwed! Self will be married to Tharpe again for another year! I mentioned two things that needed to change to get this KANSAS program at the level it should be!! I for one am proud has hell to be a JAYHAWK fan and always will be. Do I expect undefeated seasons and back to back National Championships no! Do want to send Self packing no! Two things need to change 1. Self needs to adapt his approach in all facets of his game, not change just adjust and adapt! 2. We need a point guard bad! I don’t care if he scores less than 10 pts a game I just want a 4 year kid that is a role model to the program, the best defender on the team, 1st one to practice, the last one to leave, and his effort is always off the charts!! How can a 2014 – 2015 team rally around Tharpe when he consistently takes off possessions and pouts! That is not a leader! Can Frank or Conner do it!! The answer is yes! But here is the key………Will Self adapt his coaching and give them the chance or are we flaming out again???

Suzi Marshall 1 year ago

Whoa!!! Is Justin Carlson the true identity of Jaybate? Could it be?

Bernard Gregory 1 year ago

amen I thought I was the only one who saw things in that light because for all the talk about needing a point guard I have said time and time again playing that kind of offense limits what a real point guard can do and all seasons long when there was talk about how many assists Tharpe had in a game I always pointed out that if a point guard assists is mostly depended on whether someone has a hot hand is not indicative of that position. There were a lot of times when Frank was and has been accused of penetrating and forcing shots is because everybody was standing on the outside watching. There was a big difference in the last couple of games when he penetrated and people when to the paint with him it resulted in easy scores.I am biased because this kid can flat out play and I get sick of hearing he can't shoot because all year the people who supposedly can shoot won't setting it on fire.

Tony Bandle 1 year ago

HEY!!!!! I find it interesting that there is virtually no complaining about the refs on this site.

I WAS THERE AND WITNESSED THE GREATEST DISPARITY IN CALLS I HAVE EVER SEEN!!

Our players were hacked, bumped, held and grabbed..Stanford's noncalls were almost criminal. Meanwhile, we breathed on a Stanford player and "Tweet,tweet".....part of the reason we missed so many layup opportunites for three point plays was the guys were bracing to get creamed.

The actual foul shots taken were fairly even, however, the liberties taken by and allowed to Stanford truly effected how this young squad tried to drive and shoot.

This is not making excuses..this is just the way it happened.

Janet Olin 1 year ago

I have no doubt what you said is true, but there used to be an adage in the old Big 8 that if a team isn't good enough to win 5 on 8, it isn't good enough. KU missed a ton of easy lay ups. What were the other 4 KU jerseys doing while Andrew was doubled or tripled and pummeled? One player is never The Team, regardless of talent.

Ryan Zimmerman 1 year ago

Yes, I agree.... doesn't change anything, but definitely saw a lot of that. Same for Wichita State too

Shane Johnston 1 year ago

The calls were fine. A couple on Tarik were hard to swallow but in today's ncaa they were fouls.

Tommy Kueser 1 year ago

Like most of you I have watched KU for many years now. I have been an advocate, I admit, that the one and done type players were better on our team than on another. Step one, get as much talent as possible. I see how the recruiting has molded and shaped itself into this technique. The trouble is, I feel that Coach Self's overall scheme is much better suited for 3 year players. Our program is ran a certain way, doesn't stray from its foundation. I feel that when you have a freshman dominated group, you are forced to adapt to what best suits them. I don't feel that we need to cater to any 18 year old kid, but it has proved that the one and done scenario does not fit at KU. Recruit guys who will stick around, bring in talented freshman who can grow into their role. Not dictate the season because the entire bench is young. The roller coaster ride can be fun, but always ends to soon. You wonder why smaller programs are more successful? It's simply because talent alone does not win championships. It can be done, but over the long term, give me a group who plays several years together any day. I feel that a handful of 4 star kids who will stick around will be much more fun to watch in March. Don't be so quick to buy the shinny new car...the older model will be on the road much longer, and less cost getting you there! Just my point of view.

Bob Bowles 1 year ago

I don't know about the rest of you but for me it feels like a long time from Goodnight to Late Night.

Aaron Rosenthal 1 year ago

I feel like KU lost this game because they weren't as competitive as Stanford. I think sustaining intensity for 40 minutes was an issue off-and-on all season. And that was even at the intensity of regular season games. To me it's not the least bit surprising for a young team.

Playing hard regardless of how "well" you are playing is a skill developed through repetition, just like having good shooting form. This team never made a consistent habit of truly competing regardless of their offense, regardless of the match-ups, regardless of the setting, etc...

At the start of postseason play, if a player who hasn't developed good shooting skills said, "I'm going to become a good shooter for the tournament," everyone would say that's crazy. The same principle applies to suddenly thinking you can truly compete for 40 minutes if it's not already an ingrained habit.

Aaron Paisley 1 year ago

I'm seeing something that deeply disturbs me on here and this post is going to get into some social commentary as well. Why are so many people on here giving the players a pass for losing this game and putting 100% of the blame on Bill Self? Was Bill Self the one out there missing shot after shot at the rim? No he wasn't, it was KU's players missing all the shots. How is that Bill Self's fault. Self is getting blamed for KU not being prepared to play against a zone defense. KU played against Baylor twice (beat them by double digits both games) and saw zone defenses regularly in the non-conference part of the schedule. These kids know how to beat a zone defense and proved it during the regular season. KU had a player sitting in the high post a lot of the time when Stanford was in the zone, but KU never got that player the ball. Is it Bill Self's job to personally make that pass to the high post player? No, it's not and anybody who thinks Bill Self didn't remind his players of that as soon as they recognized Stanford was in a 2-3 zone must not think very highly of Bill Self's coaching abilities. I see Bill Self taking a lot of blame for not having his team motivated to play. It's the NCAA tournament, it shouldn't take much to motivate a player to want to play their hardest with that much on the line and if a player can't get motivated for that type of atmosphere, that's on the player and not the coach.

It just annoys the crap out of me to see so many people give the players a pass for their shortcomings. The job of the coach is to put together a game plan based on the scouting of the assistant coaches and tell the players how to execute that game plan. It is NOT the job of the coach to go out on the court and physically execute the game plan himself. Now here's the social commentary part. It does not do these kids any good to excuse them from any blame for the loss to Stanford. Bill Self put together a game plan that was good enough to win the game (that's his job). The players did not execute that game plan well enough to win the game however. If the KU players had made a few of those bunnies that were missed and KU won, there would be nobody blaming Bill Self's game plan for squeaking by. Am I excusing Bill Self from any blame in this game, no because there are absolutely things he could've done better in this game. There's also things he could've done better in every game KU played this year win or lose. Bill Self also deserves blame for his shortcomings on the recruiting trail by not landing an a better PG than Naadir Tharpe. That blame is also shared by the assistant coaches because they are also on the road recruiting and none of them could seal the deal on a top PG either.

(cont.)

Bernard Gregory 1 year ago

tell me what point guard would you like to have had from last year recruits,because I can tell you from watching a lot of basketball this year the biggest difference in the point guards I watched and what we have as freshman is that they have been given the keys to the car and when they get tickets their license aren't taken. Supposedly Ennis from Syracuse is the best freshman point this year but you think he would have flourished in Self system and made mistakes like he made in Syracuse.

Aaron Paisley 1 year ago

(cont.)

Despite what Andrew Wiggins said after the game, there was no single player responsible for the loss to Stanford, the players as a whole were not solely responsible for the loss to Stanford, the assistant coaches were not solely responsible for the loss to Stanford, and Bill Self was not solely responsible for the loss to Stanford. It takes all 3 of those groups working together to succeed, and when there is a breakdown all 3 areas take a share of the blame for the performance of the team not being good enough. I'm glad some of you are not in charge of making sure these players grow up to be men because with the way some of you excuse them of any blame, these players would grown into a bunch pansies who couldn't fend for themselves instead of men.

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