Tuesday, November 29, 2011

Tyshawn Taylor: Turnovers fixable

The Blue Devils celebrate after a turnover out of bounds by Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor late in the second half on Wednesday, Nov. 23, 2011 at the Lahaina Civic Center.

The Blue Devils celebrate after a turnover out of bounds by Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor late in the second half on Wednesday, Nov. 23, 2011 at the Lahaina Civic Center.


Bill Self comments on KU football coaching job

Kansas head men's basketball coach Bill Self commented on Turner Gill's firing and the importance of the football program to the university at his weekly press conference Monday, Nov. 28, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Bill Self weekly press conference: Nov. 28, 2011

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Kansas head men's basketball coach Bill Self addressed the media at his weekly press conference Monday, Nov. 28, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas University senior point guard Tyshawn Taylor refuses to blame fatigue for his school-record 11 turnovers against Duke.

“I think I just made some dumb mistakes,” said Taylor, who played 38 minutes in Wednesday’s 68-61 Maui Invitational championship-game loss after logging 33 and 31 minutes the previous two days in wins over Georgetown and UCLA.

“I’ve got to slow down, be a better decision-maker, be crisp with my passes, not so nonchalant. Me and coach (Bill Self) talked about it. He’s been on me at practice about it the last couple days. I’ve watched tape 100 times already since we’ve been back and (thought about) ways I can correct things. They are correctable mistakes, and they will be corrected,” Taylor added.

The 6-foot-3 Hoboken, N.J., native scored 17 points versus the Blue Devils and averaged 15.3 points a game in three Maui games. He hit 15 of 32 shots overall (.466) and was 4-of-6 from three.

“I think that if we had subbed for him maybe he would not have 11 (turnovers), but Naadir (Tharpe, backup point) turned that sucker over, too,” Self said with a smile. “It’s not like you are for sure going to cut down on your team’s turnovers.

“I feel comfortable with the ball in Tyshawn’s hands. I think he got fatigued. Let’s look at it this way: That’s three games in three days, and it’s not like it’s a game in which (one can relax at all). There’s also a lot of humidity (in Hawaii) and things like that. That was pretty taxing on our guys’ bodies.

“We are just playing our starters entirely too many minutes, especially Thomas (Robinson, 36 vs. Duke; 34.7 per game in Maui) and Tyshawn, and we’ve got to get Naadir and Kevin (Young) to give us some minutes off the bench. Justin (Wesley) and Conner (Teahan) will give us what they can give us. Certainly it’d be nice to have a couple more guys who could just bide some time,” Self added.

Self said developing depth would be a priority as the Jayhawks (3-2) enter a five-game homestand, starting with Wednesday’s 7 p.m. game against Florida Atlantic.

“I think we understand as a team we aren’t as deep as we’ve been,” Taylor said. “It’s safe to say the team is a little bit different than the past. I think we get a couple guys that’s on our bench playing how we want them to play and understand our offense a little bit better and understand how we play, we’ll be fine,” added Taylor, who went on to praise different aspects of the play of Teahan, Young, Wesley and Tharpe.

“Those are tough games to get comfortable in. Coach definitely wants to win those games. He’ll play the guys he trusts,” Taylor added of the last four games vs. Kentucky, Georgetown, UCLA and Duke. “I’ve been here four years. I know it takes a lot for coach to just throw you out there. They’ll get it. When they do, we’ll be even better than we are now.

“We have a team that wants to win, a coach who will push us to win, young guys who want to work. I’m excited about this team. We’re going to be good,” Taylor stated.

Taylor said there were lessons learned in the just-completed stretch of marquee games.

“We’ve got to get in better shape. It was tough playing three games in three days,” Taylor said. “We were tired. I think it showed toward the end of the Duke game that we were really tired. We’re going to build off what we did against good competition.”

Taylor vows he’ll improve as the season goes on.

“As a senior guard, I have to know, ‘All right, I can’t go that far. I’ve got to pull up right here.’ Or, ‘I’ve got to reverse it and try to get it back on the next side.’ I didn’t do that (vs. Duke). I continued to attack and jump in the air and make dumb plays and out of control. It’s all correctable.”

Robinson honored: Robinson was named Big 12 Player of the Week on Monday after averaging 17.0 points and 12.3 rebounds at the Maui Invitational.

“It’s a great honor to receive the award, to be player of the week, especially in the Big 12 as many top players as we have in the conference. I don’t have any plan for this to be my only one,” he added, smiling.

Tickets: KU fans can receive free tickets to an upcoming men’s and women’s basketball game by donating to Toys for Tots. Fans can donate an unopened toy at the Booth Family Hall of Athletics between 10 a.m. and 5 p.m. Wednesday to Friday. Fans will receive one ticket per toy (two ticket maximum) to the Dec. 6 men’s game against Long Beach State. Fans will also receive two tickets to the Dec. 8 women’s game versus Wisconsin. ... General-admission tickets for upcoming KU men’s games will go on sale to the general public Monday. The games included in that Dec. 5 on-sale date are Howard, North Dakota, Iowa State, Baylor, Texas A&M;, and Oklahoma.

White update: Andrew White, a 6-6 senior forward from Miller School in Chester, Va., says he will announce his college choice this week. White, the country’s No. 56-rated player, has visited KU, West Virginia, Louisville and Texas. He also has Richmond and Georgetown on his list.

“I haven’t narrowed my list of schools, and I’m not going to,” White told “I’m just going to announce my decision this week. I haven’t eliminated any schools from my list and I’m still thinking everything over. I’ve recently talked to coach (Joe) Dooley and coach Self from Kansas. Georgetown has also done a good job lately. The staff at Georgetown has been supportive and will respect any decision that I make. I’ve just got to sit down and decide what’s best for me.”


trustyourSelf 6 years, 3 months ago

tyshawn's face in that picture is priceless. I want to believe what he's saying real bad. Right now I believe him about 70%.

EverRisingHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

“We have a team that wants to win, a coach who will push us to win, young guys who want to work. I’m excited about this team. We’re going to be good." Tyshawn, I completely agree with you, and I know you'll be a linchpin for this team - I look forward to watching you develop as a senior leader. I hope you have not been reading the venom that so many people have been spilling all over these forums. As a member of Jayhawk Nation, thanks for all of the efforts you continue to make - you have my full support. RCJHGKU.

brooksmd 6 years, 2 months ago

I've liked TT since his freshman year and have held out hope that he would be a great team leader. But after 3 years, his senior year is not the time to develop into a senior leader. He should have already been ready to step into the role and lead from day one. Not sitting the bench the first 2 games because of a bad decision.

EverRisingHawk 6 years, 2 months ago

Wait, your "senior" year is not the time to assume your role as a "senior" leader? Frankly, no one has any idea what offseason violation prompted Tyshawn's suspension during two exhibition games, but Self made it very clear that he deserved high praise for the work he did - on AND off the court - in the months following. Tyshawn has been a starting presence for the Hawks for four years - he does not deserve vilification. We should support our players, not tear them down.

txjhawk77 6 years, 2 months ago

He's more like a fourth year freshman than a senior!

brooksmd 6 years, 2 months ago

Re-read my comment. I didn't say his senior year is not the time to assume your role as a senior leader. I said his senior year is not the time to "develop" into a senior leader. He should be ready to play the role, not still developing 5 games into the season. It's not like he's been the 6th or 7th man off the bench for 3 years.

Thomas Michaud 6 years, 3 months ago

Proof is in the puddin'. Right? He'll have three games to really work on this before (THE) Ohio State comes to Lawrence and showcase the habits he's working on in practice. I believe that Ty wants to do what is right; while it's not easy to change what you've been used to doing, it's something that rarely happens quickly. I just hope the upcoming matches show a team that can focus from beginning to end.

Also hope to hear good news from Andrew!

KEITHMILES05 6 years, 3 months ago

Taylor is always talking whatever. He's a damn senior and should know better. He can talk the talk but will he walk the walk? Maybe for a few games then he'll revert to hi crazy head long to the basket/out of control crazy stuff. He just doesn't seem to be able to concentrate that well on the court. He needs some Ritalin.

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago

Let's tally the points of your case against Tyshawn vs. Tyshawn's record.

KM's Ledger: --KM says he's always talking. --KM says he's a senior and should know better. --KM says he'll revert to hi crazy head (WETFTMs). --KM says he needs some Ritalin.

Tyshawn's Ledger:

--Been a starter for 4 seasons. --Sweet 16 --Elite 8 --26 wins freshman season --30+ wins sophomore and junior seasons --30+ wins as starting point guard junior season --In senior season, with micro thin depth and no returning starters, and facing the toughest November schedule in the Self era, he has managed to lead the team to a 3 and 2 record with losses occurring only to two Top 6 teams on nights when his team shot 25% from trey.

In all sincerity, the scales tip heavily in TT's favor. :-)

tical523 6 years, 2 months ago

Are you saying that he was the leader and main reason for all of those accomplishments and wins? ? ? ? You can't be serious. I will admit Tyshawn played well in March last season but he is Mr. Inconsistent which hurts the team terribly. Also off court issues. . . . I hope he turns it around b/c 11 turnovers is ridiculous.

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago

I said what I meant.

Have you noticed that teams with guys that can't play on them don't win 30+ games even one season? :-)

lee3022 6 years, 2 months ago

This is far and away the better argument. The problem with fan perspective is too often it is unrealistic. This is a team that has been gutted of all but three players in the rotation (depending on where you put Travis, maybe four) and a bunch of newbys who have struggled to knock down shots. Tyshawn gets the goat award for 11 turnovers but that does not make him the only thing standing between us and a championship. This team will get better but Tyshawn remains a principle reason that we are still ranked.

mojayhawk 6 years, 2 months ago

It amuses me when a recruit assesses the job a school has done in recruiting, ie "Georgetown has done a good job lately." The kid should be honored he is being recruited, not assessing the job schools are doing. It's not the first time I've seen a quote like this from a recruit. How arrogant.

NotWiller 6 years, 2 months ago

If you had multiple job offers, wouldn't you start asking questions back to your potential employers and see how well they respond? Each school spent years assessing him, why can't he spend a while assessing them?

Actually, as a faculty member I encourage all the potential PhD students I meet to take this exact approach when deciding where they will go to grad school. If a recruit only has one school interested, they don't have a choice. But when you're good enough to have multiple schools that want you, you do have a choice. And it's a choice you've earned and a position that you SHOULD use to improve the deal you get, not unlike negotiating for salary among competing jobs. But there's no salary to negotiate here (formally, at least), so a kid is looking for attention, b/c that attention can translate into his future talent development. It's a pretty rational process, really.

Yes, schools put lots of resources into students/athletes/etc., but the long term benefit of that relationship ALWAYS favors the school when it comes to attracting top minds and bodies. To disagree w/ that statement is to fundamentally misunderstand the nature of a university in both athletics and academics. A program is largely defined by the talent it attracts, so why wouldn't we want to compete to get the best talent? Yes, we do a lot to help that talent grow, but there are more limits on the coach's/educator's side than there are on the athlete's/student's side.

I hate the drama and the hype and all the crap that's now a part of the system also, but don't begrudge an in-demand talent his ability to pick his employer. You'll get your chance to extract benefits from his talent soon enough.

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago


I am so glad you noticed and remarked on this.

To give the player the benefit of the doubt, I suppose this is probably just the contemporary jargon kids use to talk about being recruited.

But it sure sounds like someone grading the kind of oral sex he/she is receiving.

If recruits really think of recruiting this way, then they are in for a rude awakening when they get to college.

Does the kid know that which ever coach he picks, he is very soon, in the immortal words of Bruce Springsteen, gonna haft "prove it all night" in a lot of long and hard practices? :-)

NotWiller 6 years, 2 months ago

“I haven’t narrowed my list of schools, and I’m not going to,” "I haven’t eliminated any schools from my list and I’m still thinking everything over" "I’ve just got to sit down and decide what’s best for me.”

How is this jargon? These are some of the more logical, reasonable words I've heard from a multi-star recruit in a while. Given the silliness that has overtaken recruiting, I'd love to hear more straight talk like this from good recruits.

And to whip White on the same day you multi-post in support of TT????

Why assume such antagonism b/w players and coaches? Can't they feel each other out, tussle a bit, in order to find the best match so that when the long and hard practices come around they've actively decided to take each others blows? (pun intended) I know this sounds a little "hold hands and sing kumbayah", but I'll take that over assuming that White's talking smack about Self while Dooley is head down in his lap (Bate's image, not mine).

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago

Whip White?

Wow, you've got some thin iSkin.

That wasn't whipping on White.

You'll know when I whip on someone.

I will tell you. :-)

yates33333 6 years, 2 months ago

Without Taylor this season would be pretty much a disaster. So thank Heavens he is here.

Bear86 6 years, 2 months ago

11 Turnovers by your Senior Point Guard in a Championship game: Unacceptable at Kansas! Get your s*%t together TT. You gave (literally) that game away.

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 2 months ago

“I think I just made some dumb mistakes,” said Taylor"

“I’ve got to slow down, be a better decision-maker, be crisp with my passes, not so nonchalant."

I wouldn't be too worried about Taylor, folks. He's young, he's athletic, he's learning.
By the time he's a senior.....................OH CRAP. Never mind.

David Brown 6 years, 2 months ago

Exactly! We've heard these words from Taylor before, probably about the same time each of the three previous years! Self is short on options. We'll have to take the bitter with the sweet. Tyshawn is gonna be.....well.....Tyshawn.

SaltLakeHawk 6 years, 2 months ago

TT's game against Duke was a big disappointment.

But let's all remember this: this year's team is absolutely S C R E W E D without Taylor. Might as well support him and try to remain positive.

TT: I hope you have many more highs than lows this year, but you're not perfect (unlike the people on this board-- we're seriously all ballers) so I know there will be lows.

That's just Taylor being Manny... err, wait I think I said that wrong.....

jayhawkinATL 6 years, 2 months ago

...just words at this point. Even ones we've heard before. A senior shouldn't be making the mistakes you're making.

txjhawk77 6 years, 2 months ago

Why is that hating? It's just stating an opinion.

lee3022 6 years, 2 months ago

Is criticizing hating? Having seen real hating I don't think so. The fan is entitled to his opinion (even though I don't agree) without being called out for it. Disagree? Sure. Attack (hating is an attacking word to me)? No productive when we are all fans here (well maybe mostly all.)

jayhawkinATL 6 years, 2 months ago

...quit leaping into the air with no one to pass to!!!!! That's half your battle.

ClydeTurnbuckle 6 years, 2 months ago

If White comes here, how is he going to coexist with Maclemore? I know Mac is listed as a SG, but I can't see either one of these guys playing anything but the 3.

lee3022 6 years, 2 months ago

Coach finds playing time for his best players almost regardless of position. Bigs need to play bigs positions unless you are JuJu and then you play the four. I see no conflict between White and Maclemore. When there was a conflict between Caleb and other centers coach waited until Kaleb said no to recruit the next best guy.

The teams in recent years have played two combo guards, neither a point guard. In the future Naadir is likely to be our point and with a real point guard he can play two bigger guards. Both Mac and White will be 2s in the NBA but can play either 2 or 3 in college. The biggest question is: can they guard? That is what earns playing time with coach.

NoteToSelf 6 years, 2 months ago

Tyshawn looks like he just got caught stealing something at Walmart. Reminds me of J.R. Giddens who actually did. Tyshawn was out of control in the Duke game, but it would have been worse with a freshman at the point with no big game experience. Remember Mario in the Maui tournament as a freshman. HCBS had no choice.

One other name to consider as football coach.....Frank Solich. He turned around Ohio from a bad team in 2005 and they have won 3 conference championships since with a 106-58 record. Solich took them to the first bowl since 1968 in his 2nd year. Don't know if AD will hire another "Nebraska" coach though.

kufaninmo 6 years, 2 months ago

Seriously...start Naadir. I'm so sick of TT. What sucks is that we all know what amazing basketball he's capable of playing, but it's too much of a gamble right now. He's always been criticized for TO's. At this point I don't believe it can be "fixed" as he says.

Bob Thompson 6 years, 2 months ago

+1 I have seen enough also... Put him in as the shooting guard, and Thorpe at point

Drew Alan 6 years, 2 months ago

have you seen tharpe so far this season? Yeah he looked great in the second exhibition game, but in games that matter he has looked like a scared puppy upon entering the game... I think Tharpe will develop and be great, but for right now he is certainly not the answer.

Theutus 6 years, 2 months ago

I really don't see what we have to lose... 11 turnovers.

Tharpe has shown he has a great mental capacity for the game... He's smart, he see's his teamates really well...

Does he have jitters? Absolutely. There is only one way to fix them though, regardless of whether it's this year or next. He needs to see time on the court to get over it, and i'd like to see that happen early in the season vice later in the year when Taylor has his annual meltdown and EJ is the only guard on the court.

6 years, 2 months ago

Okay..Just let HCBS know about your decision.

David Brown 6 years, 2 months ago

Would Naadir have 11 T/O's? Blood the kid now early in the season so it can pay off later. A senior with 11? C'mon Man!

Jeremy Wilhelm 6 years, 2 months ago

Quit it. It's not going to happen. We will live and die by Tyshawn this year - I believe he'll come around.

Bob Thompson 6 years, 2 months ago

I watched the KU v Oklahoma championship game from '88. Oklahoma played with just 5 starters, and once and a while would sub a 6th player. They did this the entire season. I'm just saying, a bench is nice to have, but it can be done with out it. KU beat Oklahoma, but it was because they were out coached.... Coach Brown was the master.....

ku11 6 years, 2 months ago

True. The 2008 championship team only had 2 bench players that really contributed during the whole season (Collins and Kaun). Sure there were others but they only averaged a handful of minutes/game.

This team could turn out to be the same. We don't have the scoring yet (the 2008 team had 4 starters in double figures in points with Collins not far behind) but we have even more that can contribute off the bench in Tharpe, Teahan, Wesley andYoung.

lee3022 6 years, 2 months ago

You might consider Cole in that sub list in 2008. Principally against UNC is the Final Four he was dominant. Without him we don't win that game. But he played regular minutes all year.

jayhawkeratheart 6 years, 2 months ago

Tyshawn is right about the passing thing, how many times does he come down court and execute with that single hand pass in the middle of the dribble. A controlled pass is accomplished by coming to a stop, grasping the ball with both hands, looking to your teammate, and then completing the pass. Too many times he is out of control with his one hand passing. Bill should have corrected this procedure long ago. However I do realize there are times when the quick one hand pass has to exist, I talking about the nonchalant stuff that goes on continuously. C'mon Tyshawn get it together, you are a smooth player, with moves that no one else can copy, so get your passing act together and win some games.

Woody Cragg 6 years, 2 months ago

Agreed, Tharpe would have been nervous to say the least, but he's got to get playing time as history tells us that either injuries or behaviour will beset TT's season sooner or later. Give Nadir good minutes at home & let him develope-ultimately he will be greatly needed. EJ needs to step up large as well. Conner is a defensive liability & basically only a spot up offensive contributor. That's about all there is at the gaurd spot for quality minutes, so I don't see many diff options. JMO.

REHawk 6 years, 2 months ago

Very true that we would be a much weaker team without Tyshawn's positive contributions; as well as a much stronger team without his errors. I continue to hope that Naadir gets some major minutes these next 3 games. It sounds as though Bill Self hopes to get Tharpe and Young on the fast track. If they had the advantage of Conner's years in the system, this team would have beaten Duke and stayed right in the game with #1 Kentucky. Though Conner hurts us a bit on defense, he does know spacing and ball movement, and he draws enough outside the arc attention that TT is sometimes able more easily to slash past perimeter defenders. After our early baptism by fire, I feel good about this team...and think we are only 2 players away from being able to play competitively with anyone. Tharpe and Young must stay focused and patient to zoom up the learning curve. I think their minutes will be essential to our winning the league and advancing to the last weekend of the dance. TT will become a more efficient focused player when he knows full well that Tharpe can be counted upon to change sites with him at most any point of a close contest.

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago

We're going to see more of Conner.

Self couldn't let him shoot back to his average from 81% trey shooting against the likes of Duke.

Couldn't let him.

No way.

But the games before Ohio State are perfect ones to let him miss a bunch, because we'll be able to beat them despite his misses.

We need Conner's trey average about 35-40 percent when we play Ohio State.

We need Conner to hang 7 straight treys on Ohio State.

KULA 6 years, 2 months ago

You're nuts if you think Conner is going to contribute in any meaningful way in a big game. He's simply overmatched at this level. There's a reason he was a walkon all these years (no scholarship--til this year when Bill had one to spare). He basically functions as a brick wall that you throw the ball against to get it right back for a new dribble.

Marcia Parsons 6 years, 2 months ago

Tharpe's problem in the Duke game was not only youth and inexperience, it was also size. Everyone on Duke's team was about 6" taller than he is. Sherron was that height, but he was also built like a tank and that strength made up for the lack of height in most situations.

HawkKlaw 6 years, 2 months ago

I don't think Naadir's height was really a factor in the Duke game. It's not like the Duke guards were stuffing him or out-muscling him. I think it was lack of confidence due to his inexperience that really made him a non-factor in the Duke (and UK) game.

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago

Tharpe is really slow footed on defense.

Defensively, he's about where Tyrel Reed was late Freshman year.

Tharpe has to play waaaaaaaay far off the ball to keep them from blowing by him. But worse is that when they do blow by him, he can't turn and burn the way we are used to seeing with Tyshawn, EJ, Brady, and RR. All these good to great defensive players, but Tyshawn foremost among all of them, could literally turn and catch any one but a lottery pick, and Tyshawn can probably catch a few lottery picks.

Dukes young guards both had afterburners.

There was zero chance Self was going to put Tharpe in there for extended minutes and watch blow bys.

The calculus between Tharpe's blow bys and Tyshawn's turn overs is simple, when you remember Self says offense originates from defense.

If you put Tharpe in against Duke, you reduce the TOs some (but as Self said Tharpe was baking pop tarts too), but you have a spike in blow bys and a sharp drop in help defense.

This means for every TO Tharpe avoids, he probably costs one or two blow by's and help defense breakdowns.

Conversely, Tyshawn costs you TOs, but the blow bys and help defense break downs go way down.

So: if you have to choose between the lesser of evils, you choose Tyshawn who maximizes your stops, which means you at least have a chance to go score. Next, you tell Tyshawn to ease up and keep the ball in EJs hands more.

The reason Self has had to wait till this string of cupcakes to give Tharpe the bump in minutes every one is right to say he needs, is that he's too slow footed right now to guard Top Ten D1 guards unless there is a ten point cushion.

HawkKlaw 6 years, 2 months ago

To be fair, I don't think the issue is that Naadir is slow-footed (Bill Self has called him a "jet"); it's more that he needs to learn how to get around screens quicker (Self has also mentioned this). Sure, he probably doesn't have TT speed, but he's still fast (and quick, which may be more important). I think he'll learn how to take screens better as he gets more live game experience.

Another reason why KU needs Naadir on the court this season: The kid can shoot! He can nail jumpers or drive the lane. He's also a standout dribbler and passer. He tends to make excellent decisions with the ball (minus that performance against Pitt St). Naadir will eventually be a force on both ends of the court, he just needs some time, imo.

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago

He's all the good things you said on offense.

But his problem is not how to fight through screens. He's plenty tough enough to do that already.

He lacks speed to catch up once he fights through.

And he lacks speed to catch up on the blow bys.

The blow bys vs. the Divison II schools early on gave it away.

But I'm not down on Naadir.

He's just a freshman who's got to plug a hole in his game, before he can showcase his virtues.

HawkKlaw 6 years, 2 months ago

Yes, he is definitely tough enough. But anyone Bill Self calls a "jet" is probably not lacking in speed...

HawkKlaw 6 years, 2 months ago

I believe TT will stop making so many silly errors as the season goes on. Sherron was a very similar player, and he made these same kind of mistakes, even in his last 2 seasons at KU. But during Sherron's senior season he figured out how to drive the lane without turning the ball over so much. And he learned how to be the general of the team. I hope something will click with TT and hopefully he can have the same kind of enlightenment that Sherron had.

I agree with the sentiment that Naadir and Young need more meaningful minutes. Sooner or later, injuries are bound to hit and they will be counted on to win us some games. They both just need a little more experience and this 5 game home stint is the perfect time to put them in the mix, imo.

Jeremy Wilhelm 6 years, 2 months ago


I remember having similar thoughts about Chalmers as I do about TT now. Mario would routinely try to make a 'too-cute' pass at crucial moments in games, but he got enough steals and made enough big shots (one in particular) and assists that it balanced out.

I think TT can bring the same thing, and he has had stretches where I actually thought he was better than Mario at his best. Pretty much the entire run from the Big 12 Tourney (particularly Texas the second time) through VCU last year.

Woody Cragg 6 years, 2 months ago

Shorter guards can be more diff to strip the dribble while closer to floor. At times TT seems careless with this, but fatigue probably was a factor in Maui. If palming was called more often guards would be forced to stay close to the floor. Sometimes IMO TT stays way too upright & is slow to react if defender is aggressive. Plus there are situations where his first (attacking) step is almost telegraphed. Fatigue or whatever, it is what it is. Tharpe has a quickness that I don't consistantly see in TT. The $64 question is how does he keep it under control? Just like RRob as a frosh, that will come with time. Hope Self doesn't ride him as bad as Russ, he almost left the team. That psychology backfires sometimes and other coaches can temper it, but at times that is actually the plan for consistency, While I don't neccessarily like it, those guys are alot more savvy than we are. JMO.

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago

The upsides to short guard you mention are accurate.

The downside to most short guards is that there short legs cannot turn and burn to catch blow bys that their short legs and some times only moderately quick feet trigger.

Quick feed and smarts can overcome the liability of short legs by positioning to prevent blow bys.

But once the blow by's occur, long and athletics like Tyshawn and EJ can turn and burn and catch almost any guard, once they get the knack of how quick and powerfully and straight they need to run to catch up.

Tyshawn is not technically as great of a defensive player as Brady Morningstar.

But Tyshawn has length and blinding speed and quickness, a rare combination. So: because of these rare attributes, Tyshawn can cheat way, way closer on ball. He can do this, because he can turn and burn and catch any blow bys his crowding triggers. Brady could never play catch the way Tyshawn can.


He has no turn and burn game...yet.

It will come.

But he's always been quick in high school and big enough to turn and catch a lot of smaller guards like himself.

But at the D1 level, speed is an order of magnitude faster and Naadir is discovering that most guards have a stunning first step.

Giving Naadir minutes will certainly teach him how much more work he has to do to get fast enough to turn and burn and catch.

But there is no quick fix for Naadir's short legs and lack of blazing speed.

He knows.

Self knows it.

They both know that he is going to have to work and work and work on it.

He won't really be able to play soundly against top D1 guards until an off season of working with Hudy to develop the strength he will need to speed up.

But Naadir Tharpe, like Tyrel Reed, will speed up.

And he has much less of a gap to close than Tyrel had.

Alas, he does not have Tyrel's long legs either.

Everything is trade offs.

The point is, though, that Naadir will get stronger and faster, and when he does, that ability is going to converge with his great natural and practiced gifts of being a distributive point guard and he very likely will be a "kick ass" point guard next year.

Of course he will help and play increasing amounts, whenever leads, and match ups permit, and whenever fouling and injuries demand it.

But Naadir Tharpe's appointment with the point guard spotlight comes next season after getting Hudy-ized.

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago


During games I agree. TT can be frustrating. I have much less tolerance for 11 TOs than you, and also gnash my teeth about the 'high maintenance."


I always remember after the game that TT is commencing only his second full season of starting at point guard.

He still hasn't seen every situation before, even now.

Between games, I realize that TT's ceiling is still very high at PG; that he is going to get a lot better over this season by March.

Because he is a senior and four year starter, there is a tendency to judge him as if he had been starting four years at PG. He hasn't.

Recall how much better Sherron got between his second and third, or his third and fourth seasons, regarding decision making. Sherron, mistakes and all, was so very good his senior season, because after all those years he was almost never surprised by anything. He might or might not be able to overcome how he was defended, or the team was defended, but he had at least seen it before.

I doubt that Tyshawn had every really played against a team that played quite the way Consonants has his teams play, certainly not while a point guard. Capel could never get guys to play the same game Consonants does. Tyshawn's probably never played against a team so full of fundamentally sounded and well drilled players while he's been a point guard.

And TT, nor Self for that matter, had probably seen quite the kind of team-wide length and athleticism UK posed.

And TT never played point guard against an XTReme Muscle Balling Princeton offense.

I think the Ohio State game will be the culmination of TT's phase one education as a point guard. When he goes up against Ohio State, he is going to have to try to play point against some extremely strong and physical players. It won't be quite as good of a test as playing MSU, WVU (though now that I think of it KSU can be such a test) would be, but it will have to do.

I suspect he will have some problems against Ohio State, too, again because of first time exposure.

But once past the Buckeyes, TT will have seen pretty much every thing that can be thrown at him in the regular season and the Madness. This will give him a lot of confidence and .

ajhk 6 years, 2 months ago

Let EJ handle most of the PG duties. We all know EJ played point in high school and has done well subbing in for TT. Unfortunately, when comparing EJ and TT, EJ fits the profile of the 2 more than TT does though in my opinion EJ is a better distributor. The problem is, we've all have been waiting for TT's head to catch up to his body. It hasn't happened and probably will not. TT has an amazing ability to get to the rim and draw fouls. He's shooting the floater and finger roll with great confidence finally. He takes good threes and makes them enough to draw defenders. He is a great scorer and we need him out there.

But... let's have EJ do more of the handling and decision making.

John Boyle 6 years, 2 months ago

EJ didn't have a lot of turnovers vs Duke but he bobbled every pass and mishandled his dribble. He did not show anything that would make a coach comfortable with him at point. NT will get better with experience but in the meantime we will live and die with TT. (there are a lot of D1 teams that would love to have TT be their starting point guard).

ku_foaf 6 years, 2 months ago

I am willing to forget about the 11 turnovers. Weird things do happen in Hawaii. I will put it down to him being tired and leave it there.

Tony Bandle 6 years, 2 months ago

This is a compelling discussion regarding Tyshawn.

On one hand, Jaybate has clearly presented the facts on the teams record with Tyshawn. Just as clearly, others have pointed out a record of inconsistent, sometimes terrible tendencies.

My observation is certainly up for debate but, for the last three plus seasons, rarely do we lose when Tyshawn plays well and rarely do we win when he doesn't.

Let the game come to you. Don't rush it. Make better choices. Stay focused. Always think team first.

The irony of this list is that it should apply to every guy on that team, including Tyshawn.

I think this team will surprise us all this year...just not sure if it will be " All Right!!" or "Uh Oh!!".....or both!!

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago

"...rarely do we lose when Tyshawn plays well and rarely do we win when he doesn't." --Oak

We have rarely lost the last two seasons And we only lost infrequently his freshman season.

If what you say is true, he must have performed the role Self assigned well most of the time.

Further, we have lost just twice this season in five games and both losses were to teams most claim are massively more talented, yet we really only lost because our team shot 25% from trey both times, while the opponent shot 40%.

Tyshawn played very well, except for the huge TO number, versus Duke, so while a case can be made that KU lost because of Tyshawn, I have a hunch that if KU had shot 40% from trey and so taken an additional 5 treys, as Self would have allowed on a good shooting night, then KU would have won even with Tyshawn's 11 Thomas Olivers.

Tyshawn was the only perimeter guy who could really stay on the floor with UK, so regardless of how well or poorly one rates his UK performance, KU did not lose to UK because of TT. He did better than what our other guys did. But even so, KU could easily have had a shot at UK on a 40% trey night, as well.

We live in an era of scape goading individuals rather than looking for constellations of drivers of phenomena; this is so at the international, national and local levels of politics and economics . And its true in sports, too. Just ask Turner Gill.

The fact is that in complex systems in complex environments rarely can one individual perform so poorly that the entire system fails.

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago

Even George Dubya, as a colossal of a bungler as he was, required a vast supporting cast of ideological zealots to screw things up so badly that a following administration could not in one term undue his calamity. Dubya need a lot of idiotic help to do what he did to America and the world.

Hitler couldn't have ruined Germany without the help of half a dozen British and American oligarchs, the Vatican, and Krupp, Farben and a bunch of other money drunk oligarchs pitching in.

Nero fiddled, while Rome burned, but there had to be a lot of fire starters out there working over time, too.

Complex systems tend to be very robust.

Look at GM and Chyrsler. They should have collapsed and disappeared long, long ago, based on their products. But they are complex systems deeply insinuated into the political economic context and they are harder to kill than crab grass. Bankruptcy? Fuggedabout it!. Lousy products for four decades? No problema. Lay off their employees and welch on their pensions? Details. :-)

We live in an era, where lazy thinking by reductive thinkers, leads persons repeatedly to locate the "cause" of system failure in individuals rather than components of the system. Just ask Turner Gill.

Roger Smith killed GM. Rick Waggoner killed GM, and so on.

But the fact is that complex systems, whether their failure is triggered by a simple hunk of foam on a space shuttle, or something byzantine in its complexity, actually fail through a process of cascading escalation of complex breakdown of complex systems.

For example, it is increasingly reputed that Fukushima Dai Ichi failed, because its control panels contracted a Stuxnet virus originally designed by US and Israeli intelligence to create failures from false readings in Iranian reactors with identical control panels to those at Fukushima. Stuxnet reputedly got loose in Asia through some kind of mysterious transmission of this classified digital viral weapon.

There is a knee jerk tendency to then look at the horror of Fukushima and blame Stuxnet, because it is a single, easily comprehensible agent.

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago

But if one stops to think about it, Stuxnet was in all likelihood a harassment weapon that US and Israeli intelligence never dreamed could cause global nuclear catastrophe. Rather it was probably just intended to create enough confusion to trigger Iranian authorities to shut one of their reactors down and create a window of opportunity for smart bombing specific elements of the reactor in a way that would not lead to a vast nuclear plume infecting millions of persons down wind in Near East South Asia. Or so one would at least hope.

But when Stuxnet reputedly got loose in Asia, it got into lots of places where it did no harm.

Yet when it reputedly got into Fukushima Dai Ichi, where 5 ro 6 large reactors squat next to a sea wall in a fault zone surrounded by vast population, the effect of Stuxnet cascaded into escalating emergent complexity that now reputedly poisons Japan, the Pacific, North America and even traces in the Atlantic and Europe.

And remember, with radiation, it only takes a trace to kill someone.

Note: people are wasting their time watching for spiking measures of radioactive fall out. The killing will happen over the next century. It will be driven by largely unmearurable individual radioactive isotopes that get into the skin of one in a hundred, or one in a 100, 000, or one in a million. Radiation does not have to be big time measurable by geiger counters, or even more sophisticated counters, to kill huge numbers of persons. Look around you at all the baby boomers you know with cancer. We got our exposures from the nuke testing in the 50s and early sixties. Geiger counters weren't chattering over most of North America during that time. But the exposure was relentless and multifaceted and now we are all dying miserable deaths for the good of national security. I am not sure how secure persons feel with there hair falling out, spitting blood, suffering acute diarrhea in the late stages of cancer, but I digress.

jaybate 6 years, 2 months ago

The reasons hundreds of thousands, or millions of persons are going to die of radiation exposure is complex. It does not reduce to Stuxnet, though Stuxnet was surely an important player.

The reason also had to do with the back up generators failing in a tsunami. It had to do with the lack of wisdom of stacking so many reactors together on a fault line. It had to do with doing all of the above in a heavily populated country, and at a location where winds could carry the particles to North America.

It was a constellation of drivers that caused the catastrophe that should never have happened. And this constellation of drivers exists whether the reputed introduction of Stuxnet was intentionally aimed at bringing down the Japanese economy, or whether a few teeny bop hackers got into classified computers, ported the virus for fun, and then it spread it spread around Asia accidentally.

Fukushima had many drivers, many stupidities, and, frankly, the increasingly reputed multiple China Syndromes that continue there and continue to poison Japan, the Pacific and North America, might have occurred without Stuxnet.

Shizz happens.

Just ask Turner Gill.

The point is that Tyshawn baking 11 pop tarts, as egregious and sacrilegious as it seems to some, is just one element in the cascading failure of a complex system called a loss by a basketball team and a two team game.

When I look at the Duke game, what I see in this rank order of importance are:

25% KU trey shooting.

40% Duke trey shooting.

First Withey and then all of KU's bigs losing defensive control of the paint in the second half.

Self having no counter measure for Consonants apparently invoking XTReme Cheap Shotting Lite from 12-14 minutes into the first half, thus stopping KU from separating at the moment that Duke's trey shooting dried up for awhile.

And finally Tyshawn coughing 11 TOs.

Tyshawn cutting his TOs to 5 might have saved the game, but I wonder. I only know that it is anomalous, didn't help and fed into the undesirable things mentioned above as things grew stunningly complex and unfavorable for KU.

But if we had shot 40% treys and Duke had shot 25% treys, I would bet everything I have that KU would have walked away from Duke that day.

Or if any one of those drivers above had gone KU's way, Tyshawn could probably still have coughed his tarts and KU would have won.

Shizz happens.

Just ask Turner Gill.

(Post Script: I've only read a little about this weird story about the Stuxnet virus here and there, so I can't really say whether I am confident whether Stuxnet virus really probably even exists. But if it were to exist, and if it were involved in the Fukushima disaster, it seems a very useful example of cascading complexity in failures of complex systems. Make of it what you will.)

Kye Clark 6 years, 2 months ago

All right, I've seen two comparisons of Mario Chalmers to Tyshawn Taylor. It is true, Mario Chalmers played poorly as a freshman in Maui. Taylor is a senior. A 4 year starter. Does anyone see anything wrong with that comparison?

At this point, why is there any reason to believe those mistakes will be corrected? Is this the first time he's ever watched tape of himself making the same mistakes over and over and over again? Surely not. With this much time in the program and this many games under his belt, there is no reason to believe he will improve. He said it himself, “As a senior guard, I have to know, ‘All right, I can’t go that far. I’ve got to pull up right here.’ Or, ‘I’ve got to reverse it and try to get it back on the next side.’ I didn’t do that (vs. Duke). I continued to attack and jump in the air and make dumb plays and out of control. It’s all correctable.” As a senior guard he has to know, but for whatever reason he when he gets into games he doesn't know those things.

So this is what we're rolling with this year. Tyshawn certainly brings a lot of good things to the table. We're just going to have to live with his turnovers. And I'm sure he'll come out against Florida Atlantic or Long Beach State and have 2 turnovers and people will be lauding him for finally "getting it". Fool's gold. He just is who he is, and who he is is pretty good, but I'm not gonna let myself get sucked in to thinking anything has changed.

Jack Wilson 6 years, 2 months ago

I agree here, of course .. it will be interesting to see if anyone will be brave enough to pronounce that TT "gets it" for a long time. He's had stretches of multiple games (Nov/Dec 2010) where he was terrific. And then off a cliff. It will take a full season in my eyes.

But you will decrease your enjoyment of the game by setting the bar too high .. don't compare to Chalmers.

Fool's gold is right .. but don't expect gold. Set your sights on some shiny bronze.

SCHNBALL 6 years, 2 months ago

Slayer, Oak, to add to your points, I am more bothered by the type and time of TT turovers. I will agree we without him we would be worse, but will we be talking about the same thing in March? TT does not understand situation or space, if you looked at this turnovers in the Duke game, most were happening when we were on a run

But the trips he took off on defense during that game stand out to me more than anythign during the game.

No Trips Off

should replace FOE.

leonard 6 years, 2 months ago

Amen to that Schnball...

Taylor's blue bayou defense causes a lot of foul trouble for our bigs as they try to cover his mistakes and laziness.

NotWiller 6 years, 2 months ago

“I haven’t narrowed my list of schools, and I’m not going to,” "I haven’t eliminated any schools from my list and I’m still thinking everything over" "I’ve just got to sit down and decide what’s best for me.”

How is this jargon? These are some of the more logical, reasonable words I've heard from a multi-star recruit in a while. Given the silliness that has overtaken recruiting, I'd love to hear more straight talk like this from good recruits.

And to whip White on the same day you multi-post in support of TT????

Why assume such antagonism b/w players and coaches? Can't they feel each other out, tussle a bit, in order to find the best match so that when the long and hard practices come around they've actively decided to take each others blows? (pun intended) I know this sounds a little "hold hands and sing kumbayah", but I'll take that over assuming that White's talking smack about Self while Dooley is head down in his lap (Bate's image, not mine).

NotWiller 6 years, 2 months ago

sorry for the double post- this should have been up above

KULA 6 years, 2 months ago

Fatigue's gonna be a big factor with this team. Against Duke and Kentucky, we were clearly the better team in the first half. They're gonna have to steal minutes from the bench to stay effective in the second half.

Jack Wilson 6 years, 2 months ago

I've seen lots of thoughts, explaining, theories, etc., re: Tyshawn. Good to see KULA posting .. on the original TT advocates. I recall the famous quote .. "Taylor brings the offense like no one else." Great KULA quote. We had fun with that one .. as we agreed, just in a different way.

Anyway .. am I wrong here .. TT is better than he was a freshman or sophomore. It's just that he has not progressed to the point we had hoped. Certainly not as a four year starter. He really hasn't changed much from a mental perspective on the court. Prone to major gaffes. But really .. and this is the main issue Tyshawn has had -- he badly, desperately wants to be "the man."

I believe this is what drives (or has driven) a lot of the missteps. At first, I thought it was selfishness. Might have been. Now, I’m not so sure. The stuff this season looks like a guy that may feel like he needs to be “the man” vs. wanting selfishly to be “the man.” I’m not willing to call him selfish this season.

He made a comment that stuck with me a couple years ago after a December/2009 game .. he scored 18 vs. Tennessee Tech -- Taylor said "I finally got mine." Referring to his points that game, after others had had big points games. I have felt all along that this mentality is what drives the guy. To be "the man." And this is why, again in my opinion, he has not made passing a priority, -- looking first to dish off the drive, vs. shooting off the drive.

On his progress --

Quote from TT his sophomore year after being taken out of the starting lineup early in the year .. this following the California game on December 22, 2009 -- "I think I'm just playing a little bit smarter," Taylor said. "I'm not forcing up as much stuff and trying to be aggressive while playing slow at the same time."

Here's TT's quote from the article above: “I’ve got to slow down, be a better decision-maker, be crisp with my passes, not so nonchalant. Me and coach (Bill Self) talked about it. He’s been on me at practice about it the last couple days. I’ve watched tape 100 times already since we’ve been back and (thought about) ways I can correct things. They are correctable mistakes, and they will be corrected,”

The quote above after the California game in 2009 .. couldn't it be the same quote for this season? Or the one from the article above be for his sophomore season? He is what he is.


Jack Wilson 6 years, 2 months ago

Sorry, KULA "one of the original TT advocates"

KULA 6 years, 2 months ago

Good memory, but I think I said something more like, he brings offensive skills, or abiklities, that no one else does.

Jack Wilson 6 years, 2 months ago

(cont) I remember last season a tremendous stretch of games .. early in the season, ending with Selby's debut vs. USC .. TT was everything we wanted him to be. I had been a big critic, saying that this tiger would not change his stripes. During the great stretch, I said at one point that I was wrong, that TT had turned the corner. Coincidental that KULA posted above, because he felt that I had come back from the dark side, or something like that, as I recall. My rationale was that maybe TT no longer felt “threatened” by Collins on the court, or someone else who was “the man” with the basketball. He was by default the man with the ball. Then Selby hit the court. And everything changed. Coincidentally, or not.

This guy is an enigma.

Like Homer Simpson in the dictionary .. TT's picture would be next to the word "enigma." Maybe the third definition.

This is truly a situation that "is what it is." He isn't changing. But he's our point guard. He's going to make silly gaffes. Head scratchers. But .. clearly .. we ain't even in that Duke game without him. The peaks and valleys that game were a clear as any other TT performance .. ever.

We were writing the same stuff here two years ago. He’s saying the same stuff as two years ago. No epiphany is going to occur. It appeared to have occurred early last season, then vanished. A false epiphany.

Enjoy the (roller coaster) ride. And pray for more peaks than valleys. He's our guy. 30-35 minutes or more every game. With the ball in his hands. With this team, it's our only chance for the mountain top. I really do think the peaks will far exceed the valleys .. and that will be progress .. that view squarely through my crimson and blue colored glasses.

machinegun 6 years, 2 months ago

TT is a talented and hard working PG. He gives everything he's got to exceed the expectations of the coaches and support his team. TT is a leader. He displays lots of heart and determination. TT had a rough game against Duke. So what?

KULA 6 years, 2 months ago

Lotta guards have a tough game against Duke. Especially when they're gettinglower body fouled all night.

REHawk 6 years, 2 months ago

So what? Man, have you had yer head in the sand for 4 years?

KULA 6 years, 2 months ago

Bottom line is coach thinks we have a bettr chance of winning with Tyshawn in the game. For four years now. So if you thouht Brady was a good idea, you have to LOVE Tyshawn, lol

JayDocMD 6 years, 2 months ago

I think we can all agree that Tyshawn needs up be at the top of his game for 40 minutes when Ohio St rolls into town. They just put a wire to wire beat down on Duke tonight.

Kristopher Marshall 6 years, 2 months ago

"Kansas University senior point guard Tyshawn Taylor refuses to blame fatigue for his school-record 11 turnovers against Duke." = First line of the article ...

“We’ve got to get in better shape. It was tough playing three games in three days,” Taylor said. “We were tired. I think it showed toward the end of the Duke game that we were really tired." = 3rd to last paragraph of the article about turnovers.

Great journalism. I smell a political campaign in the near future...

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