Kansas defeats Michigan, 67-60

  • 3:30 p.m., Jan. 9, 2011
  • Ann Arbor, Mich.,

Monday, January 10, 2011

Far from perfect: Jayhawks survive Wolverines in OT

Kansas forward Markieff Morris hugs teammate Tyrel Reed (14) after holding off Michigan for a 67-60 overtime victory on Sunday, Jan. 9, 2010 in Ann Arbor, Mich. Morris had 13 points and 11 rebounds against the Wolverines.

Kansas forward Markieff Morris hugs teammate Tyrel Reed (14) after holding off Michigan for a 67-60 overtime victory on Sunday, Jan. 9, 2010 in Ann Arbor, Mich. Morris had 13 points and 11 rebounds against the Wolverines.


Highlights: KU vs. Michigan

The Jayhawks defeated Michigan in overtime, 67-60 on Sunday, Jan. 9, 2010 in Ann Arbor.

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Michigan coach John Beilein

Michigan coach John Beilein talks to reporters following his team's 67-60 overtime loss to Kansas on Jan. 9, 2011.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 67-60 overtime victory over Michigan on Jan. 9, 2011.

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Reader poll

What do you think the KU men's basketball team's record will be in Big 12 play?

  • 9-7 or worse 0% 30 votes
  • 10-6 0% 26 votes
  • 11-5 1% 52 votes
  • 12-4 7% 334 votes
  • 13-3 24% 1042 votes
  • 14-2 40% 1761 votes
  • 15-1 15% 663 votes
  • 16-0 9% 408 votes

4316 total votes.

— Warts and all, Kansas University’s basketball team enters Big 12 Conference play undefeated for the first time since the 2007-08 national championship season.

“We are definitely not the national-title team, but we have some good pieces,” KU junior forward Marcus Morris said after the No. 3-ranked Jayhawks’ ugly 67-60 overtime victory over unranked Michigan on Sunday at Crisler Arena.

“We definitely are going to try to be that team. We’ll have to see how it goes,” Morris added after scoring a game-high 22 points and grabbing 10 rebounds.

Record-wise, the 2010-11 non-con campaign couldn’t have gone any better for the Jayhawks, who take a 15-0 mark into Wednesday’s 8 p.m. conference opener at Iowa State.

Same story back in ’07-08, when KU went 15-0 en route to a 37-3 season.

Does Kansas coach Bill Self see any other similarities between this team (that hit four of 24 threes against Michigan’s 1-3-1 zone and 35.7 percent from the field overall) and the 2008 champs?

“Not today,” Self said with a smile. “That wasn’t a good team. That was a great team. I think this team we have is a good team with a chance to become really good. But that team had so much experience and knew how to finish games. This team is still learning how to do that. I’ve also got to be careful comparing this team to that team because that’s not fair to these guys, too.”

This KU team, which also had scares in a one-point victory over UCLA and two-point victory over USC, survived some maddening developments Sunday.

KU led by 15 points (25-10) with four minutes left in the first half and 13 (41-28) with 11 to go. The Wolverines (11-5) finally caught KU, 51-all, on a drive to the goal by Darius Morris with :35 left.

Marcus Morris had a chance to win it, but his three-pointer from the corner clanged with :04 left.

“Bad,” Self said of KU’s final possession of regulation. “You’ve got to drive it there. We didn’t have a timeout (to discuss options). Hopefully we’ll get some experience through that. That was an opportunity to drive it. They’re not going to foul. We bailed ’em out by shooting a jumper there. I didn’t think that was very good, but Marcus played well. He did.”

For what it’s worth, Marcus — he and brother Markieff combined for eight straight points following a Zack Novak three that opened OT — figured his three from the corner was money.

“I didn’t think it was good, I knew it was good. I knew for sure I made it,” Marcus stated. “The shot was short. I would shoot it again.”

Is that because he considers himself the team’s “go-to guy” who has to make something happen in crunch time?

“No. Any of us can be the go-to guy,” he said, pointing to his brother (13 points, 11 boards) as an example.

“Kieff’s shot was the game-changer tonight,” he added of Markieff’s three that gave KU a 56-54 lead with 3:41 left in OT.

No doubt Markieff’s trey was huge.

“Kieff makes the biggest shot of the game for us,” Self said.

After the three, Markieff Morris then fed Marcus for a basket and ensuing foul shot.

Tyrel Reed (10 points, 2-of-9 three-point shooting) answered a Tim Hardaway layup with a three to give KU a 62-56 lead at 2:37. The Wolverines crept no closer than four after that.

Self didn’t like the way the Jayhawks played overall — “We attacked their zone miserably, that was a miserable display of shooting,” he said — but was fired-up about their play in OT.

He tried to steady the ship during the huddle prior to the extra-session tipoff.

“I said, ‘We just played a bad 40 (minutes). Let’s play a good five,” Self said of his message to the troops. “That’s exactly what we did I thought we competed and played pretty well in overtime.”

KU survived an off night by Josh Selby, who hit one of 10 shots and scored five points. The Morris’ hit 12 of 25 shots; the rest of the team hit eight of 31.

“Last year we played the exact same game the exact same way in Tennessee, but we got beat,” Self said of KU’s nonconference finale — a loss to UT in Knoxville. “I’d rather teach lessons through winning than not winning.”

Of course, he’s pleased his team survived the nonconference slate unscathed.

“I’m happy we won today, don’t get me wrong. I am happy we’re undefeated,” he said. “I don’t think we played to that level, obviously, today. It’s all preparation for your league, and league is far more important than nonconference. People get hung up on records, and I think records are important, but your conference record weighs so much more than this.”


KULA 7 years, 5 months ago

26 three point shots? Wow, great offensive game plan against the zone, Coach.

lv_jhwk 7 years, 5 months ago

“We attacked their zone miserably...”

It doesn't sound like Coach was too pleased either. I'm sure he's relieved to know the two of you have similar opinions. Actually, I would guess that he's even more upset than you are, since it was HIS game plan that the PLAYERS failed to properly execute, thus allowing observers such as YOU to have compelling arguments to complain about.

KULA 7 years, 5 months ago

If the players didn't execute the BS game plan, why'd he leave them in for 35, 38, 39 of the possible 45 minutes? If there's a game plan, and the players aren't executing it, why are they playing?

Because true to form, as the game tightens, so does Bill's collar, and he's afraid one of his second teamer's will make a mistake. And our vaunted 9, 10, 11 man rotation is reduced to 5. Even with Travis out, Bill can't get Withey in for even 1 minute. Do you think a 7 footer might've made a decent target for an entry pass against the zone? Guess we'll never know, cuz Bill could't spare a minute of playing time for hiim. Do you think Josh really deserved to play 38 minutes?

Looks like we're in for another conference season of wasting players on the bench, and another NCAA tournament with no bench players you have enough confidence in to help the team out.

Tuskin 7 years, 5 months ago

So your argument boils down to this, that we should have put Withey in for offense? Because he would have been better on offense than Morris, Morris, and Robinson? Is that what you've seen in past games - that his offense is better than theirs?

And you suggest that Selby should have been replaced, but by whom? Who was playing better?

Every good team plays some "pedestrian" games. This was one. Let's pick ourselves up, learn from this, and get better.

KULA 7 years, 5 months ago

You're right! You're absolutely right! The twins are better than Withey. So they should play 40 minutes and Withey shouldn't play at all. In fact, if your starters are better than their backups, why would you ever take them out of the game? They should all be playing 40 minutes a game.

JHWK 7 years, 5 months ago

Wow, KULA. You're kind of an idiot. Bad day? How's the head coach job hunt going?

RCJ16 7 years, 5 months ago

Agreed. I guess KULA missed nearly every game that Jeff got PT.

HawkBBall 7 years, 5 months ago

If you try to live by the three, you'll die by the three. Penetrate and dish. That is our strength. We didn't play to it.

LAJayhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

Penetrate and dish often leads to a three point shot. Zones a generally constructed to force outside looks. Our problem was we didn't attack it at all. And Coach Self isn't eligible to go out on the floor and do it himself.

HawkBBall 7 years, 5 months ago

24 threes attempted by KU, 43 rebounds to KU to 42 rebounds to UM, 16 turnovers for KU to 15 turnovers for UM, 6 steals for KU to 7 steals for UM, 0 blocks by KU to 2 blocks for UM. How did we pull this off?

LAJayhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

KU 35% from the floor, U of M 33%. KU 16% from 3, U of M 14%.

Slight advantage, slight win.

What's been lost here is while KU shot 4 of 24 from 3, UM shot 4 of 28. Our defense was solid most of the night. That's how we won.

hawk316 7 years, 5 months ago

This was at least the third game (UCLA and USC being the others) where we played inferior opponents and were very fortunate to win. I'm not sure what that means. The old saying is that it is better to be lucky than good. We are definitely good, but we have been lucky, also. But for how long...

Otownhawker 7 years, 5 months ago

How do you beat a zone? Drive into the lane where there are 5 guyys waiting?

Tell you what, when u win a national championship then you can criticize somebody but until then, shut up

Hank Cross 7 years, 5 months ago

The second argument you're making is called "an appeal to authority" and is invalid in informal logic. I learned this at an Introduction to Logic class in Wescoe, you ought to enroll in it this semester.

rwhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

You should enroll in 201...and if you don't know why I said that, you should retake Intro.

DevilHawk 7 years, 5 months ago

Referring to a course simply by number (such as "201") does not refer to a specific course. Rather, it refers to all courses listed as "201."

rwhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

context, context, context...but you'll learn.

DevilHawk 7 years, 5 months ago

Your comment did not provide the requisite context, and an "Intro to Logic" course could reasonably exist under many different listings.

rwhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

I used 201 in a common colloquial manner and assumed everyone would be able to think in broad enough categories to understand that. And the context not only included what I said, but also what was said before by ox. You had no misgivings about my use of "Intro" because you correctly took the context to mean Intro to should have done the same with the use of 201, realizing I was using the number to represent more than a literal class number. You might learn this in Rhetoric 101.

DevilHawk 7 years, 5 months ago

Based on the context, Ox seemed to suggest an actual class rather than simply "Logic 101" in the general/colloquial sense.

Now then, back to the actual topic - KU basketball.

rpboy06 7 years, 5 months ago

Hate to bust your balls, but it is more ad hominem than appeal to authority because he isn't saying coach is infallible or exempt from criticism but that KULA lacks personal attributes.

Saad Saifeddine 7 years, 5 months ago

Now that's positive criticism! thanks for the info ;) and no sarcasm here, I really mean it

Hank Cross 7 years, 5 months ago

Fair enough. Upon further review, you're probably right.

Hail_To_Thee 7 years, 5 months ago

Hate to bust all your balls but, you only make yourselves look like morons when you try to show how educated you are. Talk basketball and leave the other BS out. Noone gives a rats a$$ where you went to school or how damn educated you people are. It doesnt take a grade school kid to realize how retarded this conversation is.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Dang, ox, that's the way to bring it with the logic. Logic is now considered to be a foreign language among some board rats.

RockChalkGuy 7 years, 5 months ago

I loved that class. Who's teaching it nowadays? I wish I could remember the name of my prof...he was pretty awesome.

KU08 7 years, 5 months ago

Agreed, at least partially. If you only post and/or tolerate positive comments and never post negative (I prefer constructive) comments, then you're more of a cheerleader than a fan. On the other hand, if you (not you in particular) only post negative comments, then you're not a fan but a troll.

KULA 7 years, 5 months ago

Clark Kellogg did better coaching from press row than Bill did. You beat a zone by driving the seams and making the defenders commit, and then passing. You attack a zone. You get inside the zone and make interior passes. Do you think we have any players quick enough for that? I thought we were supposed to have a fantastic 3 quick guard rotation. This endless passing around the perimeter only results in settling for 3 pt shots(4/24).

dtownhawkfan 7 years, 5 months ago

to be fair we missed alot of open looks we would normally make, and if we had made them we wouldn't be having this discussion. but yes i agree there needs to be a more attacking mentality against the zone

KULA 7 years, 5 months ago

Yeah, but I still say there was way too much settling for 3's. When has Tyrel ever taken 9 threes?

druroy32 7 years, 5 months ago

I hate clark kellog he is a big ten homer!!! Maybe he should coach because he sucks at calling games!!!

Rick Arnoldy 7 years, 5 months ago

puh-lease. Never use the words "clark kellog" and "coaching" in the same sentence.

RCJ16 7 years, 5 months ago

Never, and I mean never refer to Clark Kellogg as comparable to HCBS. First of all, CBS basketball is a joke hence why they have to recruit the superior commentators towards the tourney. Second, Kellogg is more worried about his dramatic generalities than actually saying something on point.

Jack Wilson 7 years, 5 months ago

You obviously have no clue. Versus a spread out 1-3-1, part of the way to beat it is to attack by dribbling to the seams. The more spread out it is, the more you have to use dribble penetration. As we saw yesterday, the skip passes, etc., weren't that effective. A tighter zone lends itself to more passing, less dribbling.

Perhaps you should take your own advice .. until you actually understand the game.

KULA 7 years, 5 months ago

+1 lol--good timing! Looks like you understand this game pretty well :)

yovoy 7 years, 5 months ago

“Bad,”... “You’ve got to drive it there. We didn’t have a timeout (to discuss options). Hopefully we’ll get some experience through that..."

Damned skippy we didn't have a timeout. We had 3 timeouts up 4, in the double-bonus, at 1:56, :43 later we had NONE. We came out after the one at 1:56 and turned it over. We come out after the one at around 1:30, make a bad pass, and have to call timeout to avoid a tie-up. We play it in after THAT (our last) timeout and jack up a catch-turn-and-shoot 3 w/ 11 seconds on the shot clock that draws air. We acted like we didn't know how to play against a zone. No one just instinctively tried to attack the center of the zone: neither with nor without the ball.

The comment makes it sound like we were willfully not attacking the zone, and like there was some crazy reason we didn't have timeout. There was a reason alright.

If our corner shooter sets a pick on the lowest defend on ball side after the ball swings to that shooter, and our big slides to short corner we have shots there all day. Didn't look like that was addressed in the T.O. at all. We didn't pass the ball very well agains that zone, but we didn't act like we'd ever seen one, nor like we had any idea on the basics of tearing it to pieces.

RocknChalknRobot 7 years, 5 months ago

And your jersey number is....

Oops, my apologies. I assumed (and we all know what that does) that since you used "we" so much, that you were either on the court on Sunday.

So which suited staff member sitting on the bench whispering strategies into Coach Self's ear are you then?

Ron Franklin 7 years, 5 months ago


yovoy offers up some insight and his opinion of the game, and the only thing you can do is point out his improper pronoun usage.....callate cabron, su opinion no vale la pena.

yovoy 7 years, 5 months ago

Blown, mil grácias...

Robot, I used 'we' on purpose. I don't normally use "we" like that, but I sort of took the close win more personally than I do in the blowouts. This should've been a blowout, but Michigan has a good, young team.

Maybe you could take issue with the fact that it didn't look like HCBS had much of a game plan against the zone nor did the team look like it'd worked against anything like it? You could even take issue that we wasted 3 timeouts when we were leading w/ less than 2 minutes left in the game? My comments addressed what the coach said, hence the quote at the start of the post. Don't take it so hard, I understand the proper use of pronouns (I teach them almost daily). I also understand (from experience) how to attack a zone, and it didn't look like the team had worked on it. I could draw it up for you in 5 seconds. Besides, it doesn't really matter where I sit because I sit as far from the team as you do, so in that Blown was correct about su opinión.

KUFan90 7 years, 5 months ago

Thankfully Michigan stupidly dropped the zone in OT and bailed us out.

lv_jhwk 7 years, 5 months ago

Glass half full: pulled out a win against a determined group on their home court. Glass half empty: barely won against a mediocre Big Ten squad.

Glass half full: double digit win in regulation with usual shooting. Glass half empty: double digit loss in regulation if UM has usual shooting.

Glass half full: looked good first 16 min -- tough D, patient O, 25-10 lead. Glass half empty: looked bad in getting outscored 41-26 the rest of the game.

Glass half full: got a win despite worst performance to date. Glass half empty: its these outings that result in first weekend tourney exits.

actorman 7 years, 5 months ago

Well said, lv_jhwk.

I thought it was interesting that Self referred to Markief's 3 as the biggest shot of the game. As I mentioned in the Keegan ratings, I thought it was a terrible choice at the time. Of course I'm glad it went in, but I thought it was typical of the poor shot selection through most of the game, when they took too many threes rather than attacking inside more. I guess Self didn't think it was such a poor choice or he would have said so.

Marcia Parsons 7 years, 5 months ago

We seem to have interpreted his statement differently. I understood him to mean it was the biggest shot simply because it went in. From things he has said in the past, I doubt if he thought it was the "best" shot to take at that point.

Ron Franklin 7 years, 5 months ago

Self says he does not base the quality of the shot by whether it goes in or not.....but I think he does in this case:-)

DevilHawk 7 years, 5 months ago

It wasn't the "best" shot of the game, but the "biggest" shot of the game is rarely one of the "best" shots of the game.

It was an ill-advised shot, but it found the bottom of the net. Because of that, it took momentum from Michigan, gave the momentum to KU, and gave KU the lead in OT - a lead that KU retained for the remainder of the game.

pmohr13 7 years, 5 months ago

I believe that was Marcus that referred to that shot as the biggest of the game not Bill

kcglowboy 7 years, 5 months ago

Off subject a bit, but kudos to Gary Bedore for making this story about the team effort and reducing the Phenom coverage to the simple "KU survived an off-night by Josh Selby ..." The overload of Selby coverage was to be expected for a FEW games, but it dragged on a bit long in most media outlets. I enjoy Josh as much as any fan, but had grown weary of the media overkill. Maybe we (that's the collective "we") have everything back into perspective now, recognizing that this talented and exciting 19-year-old is, in fact, just one important part of this talented and exciting team.

KU_FanSince75 7 years, 5 months ago

Hey, Jayhawk Nation------feel fortunate. This past weekend, both State teams lost (Kansas State & Wichita State). It was a bad weekend for the Top 25. A majority of ranked teams lost. Yep, we played crappy. The best coach in America called out our guys and said, "You played a bad 40 minutes. Now, let's play a good five!" In the back of our mind, I was thinking, if we could have somebody just get us over this hump! And that happened.

If this was the NCAA Tourney, this would be a great win! You only need six wins to win the NC. Look at the Davidson game in '08. That wasn't a pretty win. But darn it. Here I go----indirectly comparing this team with the '08 team. It is not fair to this team. I just hope we learn from it and move on. And we try to improve overall, as a team. Rock Chalk---go get Iowa State, fellas!

Saad Saifeddine 7 years, 5 months ago

""You only need six wins to win the NC""
I hate to disagree with you man, but with this type of performance we will not win 1 game, let alone 6. Just saying...

Page Butler 7 years, 5 months ago

Saad007 that's just ridiculous. Of all the maddening statements made on this board today yours was the worst.

Saad Saifeddine 7 years, 5 months ago

well at least I get the "worst statement" award for once :)

Ron Franklin 7 years, 5 months ago

it's weird how you say that performance would not win 1 game, let alone 6........but they won??????????? so apparently that performance would win 1 game.

KULA 7 years, 5 months ago

You need six wins against GOOD teams. We've got 3 near losses (two at home) against teams that are not going to be in the tournament. I don't think Sunday's performance would win a game against a tournament team. And like I said about last year's team, I don't see this present team winning 6 straight games against good competition. Hope we get better.

doctorWho 7 years, 5 months ago

Surviving this road game on a night with such poor shooting is a positive sign in my opinion.

yates33333 7 years, 5 months ago

The rims at Michigan reminded me of YMCA gym rims in the fifties. Some Missouri Valley teams also had tight rims. The rims clunk and affect your confidence.

jaybark 7 years, 5 months ago

Was thinking that the entire game! Seriously, UofM. Invest in a couple new rims. Those things were holdovers from the bun hugger and rec specs era.

druroy32 7 years, 5 months ago

i totally agree. I was saying the same thing during the game. all those misses by both teams. They are big time college bball players. Those rims did have something to do with all the missed shots.

kansasexplorer3128 7 years, 5 months ago

Glad to see your comment; I thought the same thing. There were no "friendly bounces" for either team, and that contributed to the ugly shooting.

addlime 7 years, 5 months ago

I thought the same thing. Weird bounces off the rims all day. Thought our shooters looked downright uncomfortable early.

jayhawksbiggestfan 7 years, 5 months ago

Forget the rims. We should have just "swished" all our shots and not used the rims. HA!

TenaciousD 7 years, 5 months ago

Through these "ugly" wins, coach Self is simply trying to allow them to learn on the court. There are only so many learning opportunities with as many cupcakes on the schedule as teams have these days.

This Michigan game is exactly how he wanted the game to come out. Close in the end, on the road, with every possession magnified in importance, and creating those "anxious moments" that he talked about in his pre-game speech before the North Carolina game in 2008.

Coach Self is a master at making his players mentally tough. These "grind it out" games are part of that process. He lets them sink or swim in some of these situations without too much coddling from the bench. But, in the end, he gets the right players in the game together to pull out the victory just in time.

These are brilliant tactics from Coach Self and bring a team together while providing situational experience to draw upon later in the year. It's hard to watch at times, but good for the team.

Keep up the great work, Coach! Rock Chalk!

Saad Saifeddine 7 years, 5 months ago

I hope you're right TenaciousD ! i really do..'cause if you are, this will help us BIG TIME in the tourney. If you're wrong, however, then we're in bad shape.

Kenneth Johnson 7 years, 5 months ago

My wife always criticizes me for blaming the refs when KU plays poorly. I know, I know. But, in this case, I believe that KU played poorly because of the biased refereeing. For example, the last four possessions of the first half were stymied by the refs stopping KU and giving the Wolverines unwarranted opportunities to score. we should have been up by 20, but were left with only a 7-point lead. Then there was the time in the second half when one of the Morris's was creamed on his way up to a dunk, and they called a foul on him. Even the announcers were aghast at the blatant call.

It was simply hard for the Jayhawks to maintain their composure and to get any momentum with the refs clearly being homers. Fortunately, for some unknown reason though, the refs finally let off in overtime, allowing the superior Jayhawks play their game.

Self has to feel good, though, about the players keeping their composure, with has been a point of emphasis.

Ken Johnson (KU MS '70)

nwjhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

Well not really. Baltimore is on the East end of I-70, and Colorado really isn't that far off 70 either.

KU_FanSince75 7 years, 5 months ago

162515-----I think I mentioned something like that last night. Saturday was not a good day for Kitty Kats. K-State, Missery and Kensucky all lost. Sunday was bad for the Chiefs---you can't blame that one on the fans. Wichita State finalized the evening by losing to a good Missouri State team in Wichita. BTW, Steve Woodberry (sp) is an assistant coach for the Bears. All the major teams in Kansas lost, except for the Jayhawks. Throw in the upsets in the Top 25 and I consider the Jayhawks win at Michigan a very fortunate win. Just a thought. . . . Missouri State really impressed me. First time I had seen them play. They remind me of last year's Northern Iowa team----sorry, Jayhawk Nation! Like Jaybate, I call it like I see it.

Gary Wirsig 7 years, 5 months ago

Completely agree with kjohnson's comment about composure. I watched the twins' reactions to fouls called on them and committed against them carefully and was pleasantly surprised.

Greg Lux 7 years, 5 months ago

Anyone who doesn't think Marcus thinks of himself as the " go to guy " is nuts !!! Marcus ego is far bigger then his ability to make great decisions. I guarantee you Marcus saw the Josh headlines in his head as he released that last 3 point shot. My question is WHAT is he doing out there with 5 seconds left in the game?? .. Why isn't he posting up for a rebound or pass? He's playing the 4 or 5 .. We have guards for those shots. I love the twins but their efforts are like the temps in Kansas. Sometimes up and sometimes way down. I watch the game and shake my head at times. It's no wonder we play like a backyard pickup game at times. We don't respect our roles and try to do too much. I love these guy but they need to wakeup before march.

Rock Chalk

Eric Schneider 7 years, 5 months ago

22 pts. 10 rebounds. 2 assists. 0 TURNOVERS. Seems like he made good decisions all game long. At least on the offensive end. He was on the perimeter by design. You have your best player take the big shots. He would have crashed the boards if someone else took the shot. Besides, one of our bigs is almost always on the perimeter. That's part of CS's high/low offense. Then they crash to the boards when the shot goes up. I'll agree that everybody went brain dead on the defensive end at times in the second half. But to question Marcus out there to take a shot at the end, a guy who shoots over 40% from three, with the way our perimeter guys were playing. Did you even watch the first 39 minutes of the game?

This game also highlighted the biggest effect of Selby's 9 game suspension. We couldn't redshirt EJ. I know a lot of people on this board think he is the second coming. But once again, we moved up in competition level, and he was completely overwhelmed. The kid has loads of natural ability. But he needed that year of nothing but practice and studying the game. Look at how much of a difference it has made for Travis. (By the way, let's hope he's back soon).

Doug LeMoine 7 years, 5 months ago

I can't be glass-half-full here. For the last two weeks, Self has given every indication that EJ and TRob are critical to the rotation. I happen to agree with this. The only question around their roles has been: How will they react to a real test? Well, we had a chance to find out yesterday, but HCBS went to (what amounted to) a six-man rotation for the last 10 mins. Why not take a page from Coach Izzo and use these early games to battle-test your guys? Does anyone really care about January losses? I'd much rather invest in March wins

KUFan90 7 years, 5 months ago

I think TRob's thoughts were still with his grandmother. He obviously had trouble getting into the flow of the game. So I can understand Self sitting him down.

But I agree on EJ...he should have been out there some down the stretch.

ku_tailg8 7 years, 5 months ago

I love Coach Self and the Jayhawks. But if I can say one thing, I believe CS has a hard time getting his guys ready to play. The arrogance that this team or any other can just make a run makes me crazy. Every possession is important. One armed passes drive me nuts but we still continue to do them. We lost to UNI last year b/c we felt that we could make a run. Forget that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Put a team away early and then worry about one armed passes. Yesterday at Michigan was more of the same. Please, CS light a match under these guys b/c you will be done early on in March. Making us the playoff version of the KC Chiefs. Why these guys can't get up and play amazes me. Very frustrating. Part of that is the Chiefs but they exceeded expectations. Unfortunately your expectations are far greater. So please get these guys playing on the same page.

Dirk Andrews 7 years, 5 months ago

Jhawkerman has a good point. Marcus and Markieff played great, "at times" yesterday, but then at other times seem completely lost. 2nd half, transition D, the twins are standing around looking at each other as Michigan's guard drives coast to coast, forcing Tyrel Reed to come out of nowhere off of his man and make a hard foul. The little things...Marcus tries to do too much, and it benefits no one. I am confident that Marcus can take over a game, but it hasn't happened yet (points, rebounds, defense, hustle, a complete game). If the twins play for at least 3 to 4 minutes during regulation like they did during OT, we have no OT. Where is the intensity? I thought these guys were tough?
This whole team seems to go braindead for minutes on end. We spend a whole week practicing against their zone, and come out and play horrilbe against it.
With all that said, it was still a pretty good victory on the road. All of this is just a learning experience anyways, and there was definitely a lot to learn from last night. I love this team and it's potential, I just hope we work hard and reach it. Hope Rele comes back soon, we need him.
P.S. The whole team needs to watch and learn how Tyrel Reed rebounds the ball. The smallest kid out there working the hardest...can the rest of the team learn from this?

Theutus 7 years, 5 months ago

Can you blame EJ? If he makes 1 little mistake he gets yanked... It's consistent.

Meanwhile TT is out there out of control half the time, throwing the ball away... Half the time TT loses the ball he's bailed out by a teamate picking it up or fighting to regain possession.

If I'm EJ, i'd be a little pissed off about it to be honest. There seems to be no consistency in how Self manages his players... It's one thing that I've never liked about his coaching style personally.

Theutus 7 years, 5 months ago

Just to clarify because I know i'm about to catch hell from the "Self is Jesus reborn and can do no wrong" crowd...

I love Self, I wouldn't want anyone else heading up this team... That doesn't mean he's beyond making mistakes, or that he has no room for improvement... In my opinion he could improve on holding players accountable equally... It's an observation, try not to crap yourselves.

Robert Murphy 7 years, 5 months ago

All very true, Theutus. Self can't seem to figure out who his best players are. Maybe by tourney time.

hawk_of_ages 7 years, 5 months ago

Actually it seems as if he HAS figured out who his best players are.

Hank Cross 7 years, 5 months ago

@Theutus-the same thing applies to Releford. For most of the season it's been to the bench at the first mistake. EJ and TRobb should've had a chance to redeem themselves in the 2nd half.

miajhwk 7 years, 5 months ago

why do my "replies" not show up under the comment i'm replying to?


KU08 7 years, 5 months ago

It seemed to work there. :)

I also have wondered why some people don't have the ability to reply to a specific comment rather than do the @ __ thing.

KU_FanSince75 7 years, 5 months ago

Slayr---- Like they said in "Animal House"-------"you're on a roll." Nice posts!

hawk_of_ages 7 years, 5 months ago

Funny, I'd been told again and again that there were no Brady-haters on these message boards.

The kid goes 2 for 3 with 2 boards and an assist against no turnovers in 17 minutes of play, yet somehow it's his fault that we almost lost.

duanep5ku 7 years, 5 months ago

jahawkinnebr Are you Brady's jilted ex because your hatred on here is getting old.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago


Yes. :-)

Er, no, don't insult Brady's taste in significant others that way!

Er, take off the gloves and insist that feyhawkinTomOsborne'scolon kneel before you iHumiliate him with truth.

He seems to like a firm hand.

DevilHawk 7 years, 5 months ago

KU is not overrated. This team is still far away from its potential, but we are not overrated given the play of all of the other teams in the country.

A loss and getting our players back would probably help significantly, but without a doubt we are still one of the best teams in the country.

Craig Colgin 7 years, 5 months ago

Seriously Dude? You need psychiatric help! Many posters have the opinion that Brady shouldn't play more than 15 minutes for various reasons, but they make solid arguments, and they are mostly respectful in their posts. You are completely brutal when it comes to Brady and you just won't give it a rest. I think there is one thread on here in the last month that doesn't have you bashing Brady. Get off it already!!! Im ashamed to call you a fellow Jayhawk fan and I'm quite certain I'm not alone. Seriously, seek help now!!! Denial can be the undoing of a person, the sooner you admit it the better off you will be!!!

Tony Bandle 7 years, 5 months ago

Hey, jayhawkinnebr..I just heard your daughter got engaged to Brady Morningstar!!

All kidding aside and I am far from a being a Brady fan, but I watched closely when he was in and I don't think that whoever he guarded actually scored a point. The cheapshot elbow screen was stupid, however.

Releford being hurt so early may have had more of an effect on the game flow than we all realized. Michigan had no answer for his game.

My only question...with such an advantage in size, experience and strength in the middle for Kansas, why not just dump it in deep every time? Unfortunately, the best passers on the inside happen to be the twins themselves, the "hoped for" targets of the passes.

Still 15-0, ranked 3rd in the country and having the best coach in America just doesn't seem to be enough for some of us. [To be Honest with you all, I had them at 12-3 in my preview seasonal results...shows what I know!!!]

Tony Bandle 7 years, 5 months ago

Sorry,man..I didn't mean anything with the crack about your daughter. I did miss that one foul, although I'm not sure Brady really fouled him.

Anyway, your continued classless remarks do nothing except make you look the fool. It's your choice, because instead of cheering the Hawks with all of us, your making all of us laugh at you.

Manure Mouth....not bad. But I know you can do way bettter. How about Obnoxious Orifice, Puss-filled PieHole, Clueless Cavity...come on, stretch the envelope. Show us your stuff!!!

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago


What feyhawkinTomOsborne'sColon really likes is being chained to a scarecrow in a nebr cornfield and then being whipped senseless with cornsilk. It passes for foreplay in nebr, apparently.

For what its worth, I am using the lap counter on my cheap Timex Ironman to track how rarely feyhawkinTomOsborne'sColon makes hoops comments; then I scatter plot takes relevant to hoops late at night and try to fit regression lines through the data cloud, then jump way into analysis of the error term, and by the end of it I have something akin to an ecstatic Yaqui vision. I see multicollinearity in too small n of feyhawkinTomOsborne'sColon comments about basketball. Then I lay back, like Faye Dunaway in Chinatown, after Mrs Mulwray diddled J.J. Gittes, and smoke languidly. I only share this non sequitur with you, because we are both from the same epoch. :-)

Ron Franklin 7 years, 5 months ago

Jaybate....your one helluva wordsmith...third time in as many posts i've been laughing out loud...

feyhawkinTomOsborne'sColon....that's great:-)

duanep5ku 7 years, 5 months ago

Hey,OakvillejHawk Great line and that would be funny

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

12-3 preseason forecast?

Because you admitted it and dealt with it in a responsible manner, you will only be required to get two weeks of doubt counseling, Oak.

Maybe we can car pool. I have been assigned a month of procrastination for not making a forecast. :-)

Tony Bandle 7 years, 5 months ago

mea culpa....mea culpa... :]

Jay, my friend, it would be a pleasure to carpool with you. Let's go visit that psycho, jayhawkinnebr and baptize him in the waters of true Jayhawk Love!! :)

jayhawktalk 7 years, 5 months ago

Bit of trivia, as I see this is a link to USA Today. The President/Publisher of USA Today is a KU Grad. Not that it has anything to do with the paper's day to day content, but thought I would through it out there for those that may have a mild interest.

jayhawktalk 7 years, 5 months ago

Haha! Good suggestion. Considering the proactive nature of KU fans, I am guessing he probably hears about KU's lack of respect on a semi-frequent basis during bball season. ;-)

"through" should have been "throw" in my original response. I should be less careless in posts, but probably won't happen; I'm too lazy.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

They just hate it when we're good. The ad side and corporate start raining down memos about how are we going to compensate for having KU in the title game!

David Howell 7 years, 5 months ago

I've waited about 24 hours to think about it, but I am still pissed .......

Who could be happy with a road win against a team that probably will finish in the bottom half of the Big 10 ? The Hawks were on national television with a chance to really shine going into league play.

Other then Reed and Releford, how can HCBS really utilize his game plan or make changes in-game ? The Twins, TT, Elijah and sometimes Selby don't show they understand how to play team ball. Trust me, in a game of playground basketball the Hawks win hands down. The Twins jack up 3's at will and no one is in there to rebound (and yes they make one once in awhile, but who cares). The guards continued to force the ball inside when there wasn't always something there forcing TO's.

Morningstar did show more offense then normal, but in the second half his man (the slow white guy) drove right by him to the hole on at least two occasions with ease.

Why didn't TRob see the floor in the 2nd half ? To my knowledge he didn't play one minute that I can remember in the 2nd half. The Twins weren't exactly tearing it up, especially on the defensive end. Time and time again they stood stock still after a shot instead of blocking out or moving to better rebounding position. They get several rebounds each, but if they would work harder it would be scary what there stats could be. Plus they still miss too many down low simple put back shots .........

Was a 3 point shot by Marcus with the game tied our best option in the final seconds of regulation ? Of course we all know the answer is NO. But for whatever reason at crucial times our offense stagnates out near the 3-point line area and with a lead the Jhawks choose to shoot the ball way too early in the time clock cycle. You work the clock, work the defense and invariably the defense falters somewhere in the 30+ seconds for an easier in close shot.

Selby ......... For a freshman he was due for a bad game and to me he was entitled to that. However, going forward he has to play smarter and better team ball. If you are in High School and one of only two scorers, then of course you keep jacking up shots even when you are cold. But in Div. 1 ball with other good players, you have to say "My shot isn't going in today. May'be I should drive to the bucket more or pass to an open teammate for a better shot."

All in all it was embarassing to be a Jayhawk fan yesterday. The talent comparisons between the two teams weren't even close and being on the road is no excuse. If it is, we are in real trouble. I keep thinking HCBS is seeing all these ills and we will see improved play on the court. I do believe he has, but his attempts to parlay them into game results hasn't been promising. The players have to buy in, but so far I don't see them as a team doing what he wants or even coming close to playing hard, physical basketball for 40 minutes on both ends of the court.

KULA 7 years, 5 months ago

I would be happy with any road win if they looked good doing it. They didn't look good yesterday.

Thad Daugherty 7 years, 5 months ago

I apologize if someone has mentioned this already. But, WHY didnt we press yesterday? Their team was mostly made up of freshman and sophmores. You can't tell me that that press wouldn't have had them frazzled.

texashawk10 7 years, 5 months ago

Did anybody happen to look at some of Michigan's stats before the game to get an idea of what the game might look like? Michigan is a crappy shooting team that plays great defense and doesn't turn the ball over much. After yesterday, Michigan opponents are shooting just under 40% from the field and 30% from 3 point range and giving up an average of 60 points a game. Michigan is a great defensive team and showed it on a national stage yesterday. Earlier this season, Michigan held Syracuse to 53 points on a neutral court. If this Michigan team could shoot, they would be a legit contender in the Big 10 and possibly for the Final Four. I will be looking forward to watching the OSU-Michigan game prior to KU kicking off it's conference season to see how much trouble the Buckeyes have with that defense.

KU was "lucky" to win, but good teams seem to get "lucky" quite frequently in close games. I don't want to hear about the refs giving Michigan home cooking, the refs were just plain terrible. Big 10 refs are known for allowing games to get ugly and that creates a lot of low scoring games because of the lack of fouls being called on a consistent basis. Nobody yesterday for KU played good offensively.

Marcus started out red hot going 6-7 or something like from the field to start with and then 1-11 over the last 25 minutes.

Markieff was probably the most consistent player, but didn't get the consistent looks that he should've in the second half instead of Marcus. The three pointers weren't great shots, but he got lucky on one in OT. He should've stayed inside and been force fed the ball instead of Marcus yesterday.

Selby looked like a freshman yesterday, but he's not going to have too of those games throughout the season.

Most of Reed's looks from 3 were good looks, but they just weren't falling.

I thought Tyshawn wasn't aggresive enough yesterday as he seemed to be the only player who could drive to the rim.

Brady had a decent game yesterday, not his best but far from his worst this season.

EJ commited 3 fouls in 10 minutes and put up two ugly 3 point attempts and some of you are wondering why he didn't get more minutes?

T-Rob was clearly not mentally into the game and I don't think anybody can blame him for that. The 3 turnovers and 2 fouls in 9 minutes are a testament to that.

Releford injuring his ankle was a big difference maker late in the game as his strength on offense is slashing and he would've been able to carve up that zone. He needs to be healthy for next Monday when KU plays Baylor's 2-3 zone, Releford's driving ability will be crucial to breaking that zone as well.

Theutus 7 years, 5 months ago

EJ's fouls came because of other players broke down and/or had turnovers and he was the only one left back on D... That's not his fault, not to mention he's expendable when it comes to fouls anyway...

As far as missing 3's go... How are you going to hold him accountable and nobody else? He missed 2... Reed missed 7, Marcus missed 3 horribly (why are our bigs shooting a bunch of 3's again?), Selby missed 6 some of which were WAY off..

The rims may have been tight, but a lot of our 3's weren't even close.. If you are going to dish out criticism, the least you could do is hold everyone to the same standard...

David Howell 7 years, 5 months ago

Michigan's defense ?????????

Ok, the zone gave us fits, but only because we couldn't hit shots and refused to drive to the bucket.

Two decent teams shot decent against Michiga. Syracuse shot 42% and Purdue at Mighigan shot 49% and won by 23. That is what we woulda coulda shoulda won by if they actually put together a complete game or close to it.

texashawk10 7 years, 5 months ago

Since when is 42% considered a decent fg% for a game. You do know that while shooting that 42% Syracuse managed to score a whopping 53 points and won by 3 points. Purdue scored 9 more points than any other team has against Michigan this year, so that was probably Michigan's worst game of the season so far and they probably won't be giving up 80 points very many times this season.

Thad Daugherty 7 years, 5 months ago

jayhawkinnebr: No need to be a JA. We are all on the same team here. I am sure I am not the only one who is curious why we didn't press. I am just saying they had a young team we could have taken advantage of that.

Paul Rupp 7 years, 5 months ago

No one's mentioning Reed's Sr. composure throughout as a contribution to why we won this game, as ugly as it was. We still have a way to go on the maturity issue/mental toughness with many on the team. I am encouraged we remembered how to play the game in OT after the mass-amnesia of the last 10 minutes. That wasn't a given with M's youthful seizure of the momentum late.

hawk_of_ages 7 years, 5 months ago


In all the negativity we see here game after game -- whether it's about Brady, Tyshawn, the twins, whatever -- almost no one ever talks about what a great season Tyrel is having. Yes, his shooting was way off last night, but he didn't let it fluster him, and in the overtime he came through big. He's been our rock all season long.

texashawk10 7 years, 5 months ago

Reed's shooting has been off all season. After yesterday's 2-9 performance, his overall shooting is down to 41% and his 3 point shooting is down to 34% after shooting 50% from the field and 47% from 3 last season. That's why you don't hear Reed being mentioned for having a great season, because he's not. The only thing he's really good at this season on the court is not turning the ball over and nailing his free throws. He's almost as bad as Brady on defense and until a couple of games ago, was shooting worse from 3 than Brady which is supposed to be Reed's strength.

hawk_of_ages 7 years, 5 months ago

Ha ha, sorry, Tyrel. I guess I shouldn't have baited the haters by praising you.

I understand that his shooting percentages are not what we need them to be -- we've been relying on him too much to be THE deep threat, IMO, so he's put up more attempts this year. But he's continually hit the big shots, the big free throws, when they've counted most.

Anyway, I'll agree to withdraw the "great" comment if you'll withdraw this insane comment:

"He's almost as bad as Brady on defense"

You do realize that, as usual, KU is one of the best defensive teams in the country, right? With Tyrel and Brady both playing big minutes. Unless you're ready to stipulate that Tyshawn and the twins are the greatest individual defenders in the country (and I've heard no one say that), it's absurd to suggest that Tyrel and Brady are anything less than solid on defense.

Steve Kubler 7 years, 5 months ago

I would like to take the win/loss stats out of these posts then let people read them. Then I would run a survey asking what the team's record is for the season to date. I'd guess most would pick 7/8 maybe worse. Here KU is 15-0 one of what 5? undefeated teams in the nation and a lot of posters are picking them apart, spewing hate and discontent.

Yeah, they have a ways to go. Agreed most of the players have had few consistent much less perfect games. Yet they are winning however ugly the games are. I would like to point out one thing. The "cupcakes" as they have been called want to win. Not a single team KU has played entered the game with the intent to lose. In fact playing KU might be the highlight of their year and they spend a month planning for this one game.

I love basketball, playing, coaching, watching, and critiquing. I am sure most of you feel the same way. It would be nice if we could leave the disrespect for some players and the hateful sniping directed at them at the door.

Besides, everything up to now has been foreplay. Things get serious starting tomorrow night.

hawk_of_ages 7 years, 5 months ago

Well said. Agree 100 percent. KU fans are spoiled rotten.

Dirk Andrews 7 years, 5 months ago

Tyrel deserves a ton of credit for his hardwork. He is the best rebounder, aside from TRob, on the team. The Twins could learn from Tyrel.

Steve Kubler 7 years, 5 months ago

He has been hitting the boards well on defense I really like the way he hits his guy and goes to the rim. He is also smart enough to not fight a big KU player for the ball. I can not count the number of times I've seen him back off of a teammate on a rebound. Fighting for a rebound with a team mate often ends up losing the ball.

Can not expect offensive boards from him as a guards job is to get back when the shot goes up.

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