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Monday, January 10, 2011

Keegan

How good is KU basketball? Good question

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Highlights: KU vs. Michigan

The Jayhawks defeated Michigan in overtime, 67-60 on Sunday, Jan. 9, 2010 in Ann Arbor.

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Michigan coach John Beilein

Michigan coach John Beilein talks to reporters following his team's 67-60 overtime loss to Kansas on Jan. 9, 2011.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 67-60 overtime victory over Michigan on Jan. 9, 2011.

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— If not for an overtime in which Kansas University’s basketball team played like its confident, aggressive self, it might have been time to wonder just how good the Jayhawks are despite their undefeated record and No. 3 national ranking.

Some might still ask that question in the wake of Sunday’s 67-60 overtime victory in Crisler Arena against a young Michigan squad that can’t shoot straight.

After all, none of KU’s 15 victories has come against a team that now resides in the Top 25, and two of them came by a combined margin of three points against UCLA and USC teams that don’t beckon memories of the John Wooden/Bobby Boyd years.

Some will call the Jayhawks (15-0) overrated, but to do so would be to forget that Iowa and Minnesota both just gave No. 2 Ohio State fits.

This much is certain: Kansas wasn’t very good for the final 23 minutes of regulation, getting outscored 41-26 by the Wolverines (11-5).

The KU guards looked a little confused by Michigan’s 1-3-1 zone defense.

“We work a lot against the 1-3-1, and we meant to do different things than we did,” KU coach Bill Self said. “We reverted back and didn’t attack. Of course, we didn’t make shots, but certainly, that was about as bad as you can attack a zone.”

Kansas made just two of 20 three-point shots during regulation.

“A lot of it was them, and a lot of it was us,” Self said. “The more we missed and the tighter we got, the more compact their zone got, and we couldn’t play through our bigs as much.”

KU guards Tyshawn Taylor and Josh Selby have the quickness to blow by most guards checking them man-to-man. Experience tends to be as important as quickness working against zones, and Sherron Collins was a master at it by his senior year.

Neither Taylor nor Selby ran a college team until this year, and they’ll experience growing pains, particularly against zones.

It was a particularly trying day for Selby, who is so talented he sometimes makes it easy to forget he’s a teenager. He played like one Sunday and carried himself as a young player. As is the case with most freshmen, Selby’s body language tends to be more reflective of his own play than the team’s performance, as was evidenced by how disappointed he looked when the team had double-digit leads in the first half when he couldn’t find his shot.

Selby made one of 10 shots and one of seven three-pointers. Tyrel Reed didn’t shoot much better from long range, making two of nine, but did hit one in overtime.

KU will face zone defenses with increasing regularity, given how well it worked for Michigan, which is a good thing because the more experience the Jayhawks get, the better they’ll attack them. If it continues to rely on bombing away from long distance, KU will bury teams when it shoots well, underachieve when it doesn’t.

The Big 12 schedule awaits plenty of environments just as difficult as Michigan’s, an appealing one thanks to a spirited band that belts one of the coolest fight songs in the land and thanks to the seating of the students close to the court.

Far from an encouraging performance for KU, it still counts as a good win.

Comments

waywardJay 3 years, 9 months ago

Don't love the lovefest to the Michigan Band and Fight song, but Keegan's season long auditioning to leave award winning staff is no surprise.....

He cannot cut the mustard as a Journalist because of a pesky thing called Ethics. He's a marginally successful Editorialist, because he has opinions and has no problem bellowing or bellyaching as any blowhard should.

Otherwise, ( and like this article.... this post is largely slanted at the right angle, just a few quips that are a nuisances. ) you are right. No one knows what we are. I think Bill might have some Idea, but at this point It's gotta be frustrating to him too. Then again, We looked dismal in February 2008 in losing to Oklahoma State and Didn't lose another game that season.

We will lose in conference. We SHOULD still be best in the North. We still SHOULD win at least a share of the Regular Season title. We still SHOULD be in the COnference Semifinals.

28-3 (13-3 ) heading to the Big 12 tourney sound Unrealistic ? That woudl likely send us to the 2 spot in the Eastern region at WORST.

pizzashuttle 3 years, 9 months ago

Keegan hits the nail on the head. We can't score against a zone defense.

And whatever personal vendetta you have against him, this article does not support your point of view.

jayhawkintx73 3 years, 9 months ago

We can score against a zone. We have scored against a zone. It was simply a matter or execution, and today it was a matter of poor shooting(but that has not been a problem). They're going to have some bad shooting days, but I'll tell this. 35.7% shooting percentage.

We got 5 points from the bench. T-Rob was not with the team for a few days, didn't play much. Releford went out early with an injury. Johnson scored 0.

The 5 points from the bench was not because Michigan defended the shots well. We missed the shots.

Reed was 2-9 from 3 point range. Selby was 1 of 7. Get that up to 30% with the two combined, and that is at least 12 points more. They did not have any shots contested better than shots they've made all year. Johnson was 0-2, and didn't get PT. That isn't because they did not execute, but because they missed shots they normally make.

With that said, they were 75% from the FT line today and the Morris twins stepped it up. On a night where Reed gets this many shots, he would usually get 20 points. We left 20 or more points on the court.

This was not because Michigan defended our shots well. It is because we missed them. We shot 35.7% from the field and still won. I'm not going to fret over that just yet. 35.7% is a fluke for this team.

kcglowboy 3 years, 9 months ago

Agree with pizzashuttle. I'm no fan of Keegan's writing, and he has had more than his fair share of journalistic mishaps. But dude, you picked the wrong column from which to launch your vitriol. This was as straight-forward and accurate as it gets when analyzing the game and the state of the team. Please tell me that Keegan's simple nod to the pep band and/or the school fight song wasn't the real reason for all the venom, because that would be just plain sad.

Funhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

"How good is KU basketball?" Good enough to be fifteen and oh. The question alludes to weak opponents and home court advantage. No, we are a 15-0 and deserve it.

Regarding vitriol, one meaning for "vitriol" is "bitterly abusive feeling or expression." Vitriol is Middle English, from Old French, from Medieval Latin.

Fun article. Fun comments.

lincase 3 years, 9 months ago

Good grief, Wayward, acknowledge what happens to be true! The Michigan fight song is probably the best in the nation, and I love it when a school has seats for the students close to the court. The students deserve to have great seats. When I was at KU, the students did have good seats. Of course we wrote on slates then.

Christopher Johnson 3 years, 9 months ago

The fight song is a freaking scale. It's not even rhythmically interesting. I'm not sure what's so great about it . . .

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 9 months ago

do yo thing wayward! it's the little annoying comments that are starting to show up in almost every article that seem to say "hey guys read look at me and comment!" trying to draw us into a comment war thus increasing the "clicks" on his articles. maybe bubba has gotten to him and he is "pushing," Clearly with "michigan band" "young squad can't shoot straight" "student seating section" he is tying to start something. i think you regular posters on this site have a word for it, rhymes with "roll." i'm looking forward to the next article. it hear it's titled "anti abortion, public smoking, gay married, palin supporting, jayhawks take on isu"

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 9 months ago

Holy cow! How did I skip the biggest one "sherron Collins!!!!"

Two the big wigs at the ljw, this isn't a Howard stern thing where if you love him or hate him you still listen/read. It's more like a starving homeless person eating food just because it's there type of read.

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 9 months ago

Numerous grammatical and spelling errors. Sorry but rage and proof reading don't go together.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 9 months ago

Can't agree. Keegan got it right. We had a hard time scoring against an undersized Michigan playing a soft 1-3-1. If Reed or Selby had started hitting 3's...different story, but if we don't have the patience to go inside when we are not hitting 3's, we will lose against better teams.

Personally, I thought the refs were horrendous, but that's a different matter.

Sam Constance 3 years, 9 months ago

Sorry, but they were. It was bad both ways, but a big part of the reason KU wasn't scoring inside is because every time the ball would go inside, a swarm of Michigan players would collapse on the ball and play hack and swat defense. This seems to be a pattern for our opponents this year--ball goes inside, opponent collapses and gets physical, no call, KU misses shot or loses ball.

I'm not one to use the refs as an excuse--no matter how bad they are, there are very few bad calls that can truly affect the outcome of a game in a way that prevents the team on the short end of the stick from overcoming said bad call.

But not using the refs as an excuse is different than letting them off the hook for doing their jobs poorly.

Craig Lang 3 years, 9 months ago

I agree that there were a lot of non-calls in the first half, mostly non-calls that would have benefited KU if the calls had been made.

The second half seemed more balanced, although I don't understand why the refs felt the need to review a play that turned out to be no foul. My guess is that at least one of the refs was looking for a reason to eject Marcus (although clearly no elbow was thrown).

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 9 months ago

Not going to argue that KU was horrendous...You are right, but imo, the men in striped shirts do not belong as referees at this level.

jhox 3 years, 9 months ago

The officiating was no worse than any other typical game, and they certainly didn't go against KU any more than Michigan. The officiating had nothing to do with our poor play.

KU just had way too many turnovers, especially late in the game off the dribble. How we can have such a talented group of guards and turn the ball over like that I'll never understand.

The other problem is we couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from the outside.

ksyank 3 years, 9 months ago

Michigan got back in the game because KU couldn't hit a shot. They got open looks against the zone, they just didn't make anything, including layups. Jayhawk's biggest weakness is focus, even Reed took a few bad shots which is unusual.

As far as the refs are concerned, it seems they get worse and worse with each passing year. They were alright until the game started to get tight, then they missed a few that would have put KU at the line.

It is hard to win on the road against even average teams at times, but they did.

ksyank 3 years, 9 months ago

P.S. Just saw the box score. Says the attendance was 12,476. Were they counting people or empty seats?

Jordan Gumm 3 years, 9 months ago

The stadium holds 13,751. I went to the game and there were only empty areas in the top corners of the stadium. So yeah, a little over 1,000 empty seats sounds about right.

UmbertoConforti 3 years, 9 months ago

I agree with Marchphog88. The refs were horrendous both ways and the hack and swat defense worked!

I think the Michigan game proved that Selby needs more than one year at KU to ready for the big dance. He is superior talent but needs experience. He could replace Jo Jo White as the best guard ever to play at KU, and KU has had some outstanding guards beginning in my lifetime with Charlie Black.

waywardJay 3 years, 9 months ago

Why am I suprised that no one read past the vitriol ?

I said.... Otherwise you are right.

This really wasn't a necessary artcile, Anyone who has watched us play knows we haven't put together 40 minutes. Let alone 30 minutes consistantly.

I am however tired of hearing his constant pandering to other schools in his articles though.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 9 months ago

Pandering? What exactly do you consider to be pandering?

It was a tough environment, mostly because we let an average school hang around instead of putting them away.

Maybe it was the comment about the fight song......

As far as us putting together 40 minutes, I agree 100%. We haven't come close. Teams have continually made runs at us and we look lost at times. A lot like last year.

waywardJay 3 years, 9 months ago

Well, Mike. Follow a brief history of Tom Keegan's work and he often throws little snide jabs at the Kansas Players, and often lauds opponents __ whatever that ___ would be .... In this instance it is michigan's fight song.

I can remember him calling Sherron Overweight ( which is just high comedy ), I rememeber him writing about our football team ( and he was right we ended up pretty bad ), but it was days after writing an article about how stars will be made this year.

Keegan's a Hack, but often to places with "stronger" media markets he tends to specifically yearn towards those areas..... Specifically up North....

I don't particularly care for his writing style, though he occasionally writes a good piece.... With so much positives in Lawrence, It kinda sickens me that he overly glroifies the other teams for ridiculous reasons.

hawk316 3 years, 9 months ago

You can bet KU will see more zone defenses after this performance! Still, we should have the shooters to beat a zone under normal circumstances. Let's just hope we don't go this cold against a zone during the tournament.

duanep5ku 3 years, 9 months ago

Kansas fans also need to remember that no other top 10 team is doing much better right now. Ohio St has had close games too and don't be surprised if Michigan beats them this week. Oh' another thing this Michigan team only lost by three at Syracuse.So why this win may not have been pretty,It's still a W and I'm happy with it. Oh' and lets not forget even the almighty Duke has had their fare share of close games too.

Mike Bratisax 3 years, 9 months ago

Ohio St and Michigan are arch rivals..So I'm not sure if the comparison fits.

bradh 3 years, 9 months ago

Pretty harsh criticism for a kid who goes out and gives his all every game he's in. Your criticism would be bad enough against any Jayhawk who is going out and playing for the University, however it seems particularly bad against Brady. Every time he's on the court the ball movement on offense seems smoother, he takes and generally makes the open shot, and you get a solid defensive effort. We may need Brady during conference play and in the tournament, I'm sure your griping will really help his confidence when he and we need it.

stravinsky 3 years, 9 months ago

Takes and makes the open shot? Maybe we have different definitions, but I don't consider a 26% 3pt percentage this year to be 'taking and making the open shot.'

Carter Patterson 3 years, 9 months ago

Its clear you don't know anything about basketball.

hawksfan08 3 years, 9 months ago

It's becoming more and more clear that Self is willing to ride whoever he believes is playing best in a given game. With Releford out, EJ playing poorly, and Selby not hitting, Morningstar was either our 3rd or 4th best guard option. As such, he should've been playing. Think of it like the title team. Of Rush, Chalmers, RussRob, and Collins, the three that performed best during the game were almost always on the court at the end.

bad_dog 3 years, 9 months ago

Why anyone pays attention to a post from someone (KSA) using the Kansas statutory reference to indecent liberties with a child as his/her/its loser name is beyond me.

Remember for example, this is the pseudo savant that wanted Self to have Mario Little intentionally miss both free throws at the end of the USC game just so he could watch 5 more minutes of basketball.

Perhaps you should stick to commenting on the propriety of button-down collars in the workplace KSA.

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 9 months ago

jayhawkinnebr has now outed himself as a moron on both football and basketball post boards.

Steve Brown 3 years, 9 months ago

JHawknNEBR hello KSA21 no matter how many log in names you use, we know your Kittens can't ball.

actorman 3 years, 9 months ago

You're right, KSA. Clearly if Morningstar hadn't played in this game, KU would have shot 55% and won by 25 points.

saad007 3 years, 9 months ago

You guys need to cut the BS and stop blaming Brady for the bad team performance. we all need to accept these facts: WE, AS A TEAM, are not playing like a top 5 team. WE, AS A TEAM don't have the killer instinct to put teams away. WE, AS A TEAM cannot score/execute against zone and seem to have no offensive rythm or flow against it. WE, AS A TEAM, will have a hard time against many Big 12 teams and will lose to some of them. WE, AS A TEAM, need to practice and play with intensity day in and day out and bring our A game from now on if we wanna have a chance at the final four. ROCK CHALK!!

LAJayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

I'm fairly certain that actorman's post was boiling over with sarcasm. I had to turn down the brightness on my monitor so it didn't burn my hand.

KU_FanSince75 3 years, 9 months ago

Better question Keegan----how good is Jesse Newell? He said KU would win by seven and what was the final score? Oh, yea----67-60. Of course, Jesse didn't predict OT, but still. . . . . . Keegan, I liked what you said in this article. Just keep jumping on your pony and enjoy the ride!

LAJayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

"...how good is Jesse Newell?"

Excellent. In fact, he should be sports editor. :-)

waywardJay 3 years, 9 months ago

other than the article... Im with you Newell 2011 !

jaybate 3 years, 9 months ago

La,

Don't put Jesse behind the eight ball with Tom.

Instead say, "You sure hope Tom gets that promotion up to the Austin Statesman that he's been hoping for.

The updraft will put Jesse where you want him. :-)

HAWKTOPIA 3 years, 9 months ago

Keeg's you squeezed water from a stone, and missed the point! To say we can't play against a zone is crazy and belies the first half of the game. Josh did have his issues and seemed uncomfortable with everyone scoring and the Hawks doing well. This game was about discipline and staying the course.

Bill Self is the culprit here. He left selby in to get him some points, probably hoping a little personnel change would shift him to a leadership shooting role. this kept the team from pulling away further and stalled our attack (we were up by 15). He yanked TRob when he got chippy much too quick. He played the twins when they were tired and didn't rebound or play D. I think he panicked a bit when releford went down, and should have put withey in because this michigan team collapsed every time we got the ball inside, and he needs the work. it couldn't have been worse than the second half really was. Bill did not get the correct personnel in the game to D-up and pass to the point. The zone breaking takes patience, and Bill showed none. He went back to a tired starting group that had lost the fire and fell to casual, lost focus play, and tried to look nonchalant.

We have to play winning ball, not waiting ball. Like golf, it's one swing with a dozen clubs. You have to play to win every time up the court, and every time on defense. there is no other way to play. Bill Self did not use his personnel to his advantage.

kufankam 3 years, 9 months ago

michigan played man the majority of the first half... until the end when the went to zone and consequently cut into our lead. we did struggle mightily in against the zone with very SOFT gaurd play.

who should have bill played? brady, selby, ej, tyshawn, tyrel ALL looked tentative down the stretch, like they were scared. i contend that tyshawn played VERY weak and soft against the zone. granted, he had a good stat line, he looked like a little kid out there nearly turning it over several times in the clutch. i just thought overall, no matter who bill had in there at gaurd, we let there zone pressure get to us. lazy passing and ballhandling was done by all of the gaurds, so i kinda think self was limited with his personal (unless you think royce woolridge could have done better). our gaurds are much better than they played. don't blame the coach for lack of options.

also, he yanked trob for not hussling back on D after he got elbowed. you could read bill's lips on TV when trob came off the floor. trob was pointing to his mouth saying he was elbowed. bill, looking at him, said, "you still can hustle back on D".

gongs4ku 3 years, 9 months ago

I think we're playing like a top 5 team, but only because there aren't a lot of strong teams this year. This team doesn't have the feel of one that's going to make the final four, but we're still pretty good. I'd be floored if we didn't win the conference, given that it seems like a down year for the big twelve (and college basketball as a whole).

Steve Brown 3 years, 9 months ago

we aren't that good yet since the national field is average it don't take much this year to rise to top 5.

Also, it is mid season, none of us are March ready.

Jacobpaul81 3 years, 9 months ago

A.) Travis Releford - We need him more than any other player. Size-wise, he's the only NCAA 3 (NBA 2) we have on this team. His ability to grab offensive boards and shot selection were both severely missed in this game.

B.) If Reed or Selby is not hitting, those are empty minutes. At this point, neither has demonstrated an ability to score inside the arc or to contribute with offensive rebounds. Neither has learned to attack. When you face a 1-3-1 defense, the defense is happy to give you 3 pt looks in exchange for better interior coverage. You've gotta attack the seems with interior passes and dribble drives. Neither demonstrated that in this contest.

C.) Thomas Robinson - When he sits, we don't get offensive boards cause our guards just stand around and watch. Michigan Guards hauled in 9 Offensive Boards. Kansas Guards? 2. We gave up 29 defensive rebounds. Marcus and Markieff saved our butts with their 9 offensive boards in this contest.

D.) 4-24. That was this teams three-point shooting against Michigan. 24 3 pt shots. We were 20-32 inside the arc. 4-24 inside it. While the 3 pt shot has it's uses (Primarily stretching a defense), we settle for them way too often. Especially when our best 3 players are Power Forwards. "We reverted back and didn’t attack." - Bill Self. I will call this the Sherron Collins effect. 2 years playing with a ball hog has turned the guards into a mess. They stand around outside and watch and when they get the ball they shoot it. When it bounces back, they stand and watch the opponent grab it.

E.) Keegan and his Sherron fetish. Sherron was no master. If he was lightweight, he couldn't drive. When he was heavy, he got called for charges. He had more charges than any player I've ever watched because he was completely unaware of his environment. Sometimes he'd get through and do something spectacular, but most the time, he was a foul machine. Robinson was much better at the dribble drive than Collins. He could break down starting guards better than anyone I've watched other than maybe Jacques Vaughn. Rush was also very impressive at breaking the zone. His two step jump shot was amongst the best I've seen. Step in 2-3 steps to the interior of the zone, catch a pass in the seem and pop it. These guys really need to watch Rush and Robinson.

F.) As Bill has said, right now, it would not be fair to compare these guys to the 08 guys. Every starter + Kaun was a well oiled machine and Collins and Aldrich were great role-players for that team. This team has gotta learn to do what they did. Create space and attack, don't overshoot the 3, don't underfeed the Forwards. The guards have GOT to get more active on the offensive glass... They can't leave it up to Travis and the Power Forwards. And someone has gotta find their inner Russell Robinson and quick. We need someone to divide and conquer and force teams to respect our outside dribble drive.

Sam Constance 3 years, 9 months ago

You're going to be waiting a looooong time if you expect Reed and Selby to be pulling in offensive rebounds. I also think you are fooling yourself if you think Self is calling for his guards to crash the offensive glass. The job of the 1 and 2 guards is to get back on defense to prevent any runouts.

I should also point out that Selby did attack at times last night, he just missed his shots.

Steve Brown 3 years, 9 months ago

08 by March was well oiled machine, true and we caught Durrant with ankle sprain at home and Sooners with their king kong on bench. A magic year no doubt, yet we caught couple breaks for the conf. crown.

jaybark 3 years, 9 months ago

Bullseye on the assessment of the situation. This team is still very talented and will likely win at least a share of the conference title. An off night exposed some trouble areas that they'll now be able to work on more effectively in practice. Experience will solve the zone problem by March - hopefully in time for KSU on the 29th but that's more wishful thinking than anything. Selby is still a young player playing in a brand new environment and will adjust. That said, for being such a young player his maturity level is on par with or better than most seniors in recent memory. Our other guards will gain confidence driving the lane - heck, Reed's actually had some unanticipated success with this lately. The only thing I'm worried about in terms of our game is how Releford is doing. That was the worst part of the game for me, watching him go down like that. Hope all is okay.

Joe Ross 3 years, 9 months ago

Here's the correct answer to the question Keegan poses. How good are the Jayhawks? Based on potential, they are right where they are ranked (somewhere in the top four). Practically speaking, however, they are still among the best programs in the country but they have considerably more company. Game by game, the Jayhawks show that there is a good bit of separation between them and the teams they play, and generally they start by opening up big leads. The main problem with the Jayhawks is that they can't sustain their good play after they've earned a lead. That and poor defensive lapses.

BCRavenJHawkfan 3 years, 9 months ago

Spot on my friend. In fact, in every one of these "squeakers" these Hawks have been up by at least 10 at some point early. Then they fail to continue to build the lead. It might even surprise some that in a good many of the blowouts so far, the second half of those games has been relatively close. Could it be there is some scoreboard watching by these guys? When I think back to my HS days on the hardwood our best games were ones that we really didn't know the score. The results were pretty impressive. So impressive our little 3A school went to what was then called Super State (every class champion invited) and made it to the finals against a 6A school. We lost but held our own.

Clarence Haynes 3 years, 9 months ago

Better execution of ball movement on zone defenses (as effectively as we do with man to man defenses) will favorably affect the perimeter shooting that was missing from the likes of Reed and Selby. That will also open up our inside game which was missing at times due to Michigan sagging in the middle. When this happens, our bigs have to go up strong (no finesse) for the score!

Woody Cragg 3 years, 9 months ago

My take is not much different-looked like they had never even seen a zone def before. TT continually walked it up the floor and lobbed passes to Reed or Josh & they just lobbed them back. Must pack the zone in tight to disfigure it on rapid ball reversal and this will create lanes by getting the zone out of shape. Personally I thought the passing was awful. Every coach in the conf will watch this tape. Really fortunate this performance came against a team of undersized underclassmen. But Mich Morris gets some credit also-real good passer & slasher & tough to defend. Defense definitely won this one, but a better shooting opponent will have a different outcome. Lots & lots to work on. Iowa State is always a tough place to play. Hope Relford is not too banged up to go. We're already lacking depth at the 4-5 spots.

SDSurferFan 3 years, 9 months ago

I thought half way through the first half..."damn, MU looks slow, and we seem to be running drills through what appears to be a JV Scout team." We weren't killing them, but we were running the offense methodically and obviously the D was great. I thought this is going to be a 25 pt win.

My only criticism is that we are way more athletic not to have killed this team. JayBate makes some good points and I will chalk it up based on his explanation, but what would Duke have done to this team? Hate to compare, but if you want to start talking NC then you have to.

Last year we had 30 wins entering the tourney, so 15-0....big deal.... just saying!

KULA 3 years, 9 months ago

With a performance like Sunday's, Duke totally dismantles KU. A 20 pt loss, at least.

kufankam 3 years, 9 months ago

i am not disagreeing with you that KU needs to play much better to beat formidable competition. however, duke didn't exactly look like world beaters beating an average maryland team sunday night. ohio state has looked beatable as well. it seems as though the nations elite (many relying on talented youth) are all capable of playing great and pathetic at any given time.

Christopher Johnson 3 years, 9 months ago

The fight song sucks. It's a freaking scale.

gorilla10 3 years, 9 months ago

How good is KU basketball?.......The big12 will answer this question

SCHNBALL 3 years, 9 months ago

The seperation between a good team and a great team is simple.

A great team competes with itself on a daily basis, not the competition.

With as much talent as we have had over the past 2 years, we have not made it to that

level yet. Who knows if this team will ever get to the point , but offensively against decent

competition, this team struggles in stretches during games, something we have

become accustomed to under Self. We are no where near a rotation, which is ok,

but how did Withey play yesterday?

While this team struggled to close out the game yesterday and reminded us of last

years squad in doing so, the ceiling is much higher for this team in my opinion.

I am very anxious to see if this team can dominate tempo against a worthy opponent.

I suspect the Mayor and Iowa State will high pick and roll us all night, let's see if we

can step up the defense again.

Big 12 winner this year has a minimum of 3 losses.

jaybate 3 years, 9 months ago

Plenty good.

They just shot 16 percent, did everything wrong in attacking a zone, against a Princeton offense designed to capitalize on this sort of thing, and still won by 7 in OT, which is equivalent to winning by 17 against a non Princeton team.

This is a team with all the pieces. It is better than any other team but Ohio State, once it gets its experience. And Self is enough better coach than Matta, that KU will probably be able to beat Ohio State on a good night.

It is just inexperienced and still learning how to play in various situations.

No short cuts to experience.

kusully 3 years, 9 months ago

Hey guys, Sorry to burst your bubble but you're delusional if you think Keegan reads your posts. Most columnists never look at the fan comments. Just a gentle reminder that Keegs is not paid to write flowery columns for Jayhawk Nation. You wouldn't be content if he did. Don't be surprised if Self continues to schedule a tough non con away just before conference starts. I believe he uses the game as a reminder of what is to come...win or lose.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

With all due respect kusully, it's quite clear he does read them. How do I know this? Well, On June 17th, 2008 he wrote an entire article based on comments made on KUSports.com regarding Sherron Collins sexual assault accuser, calling them commenters nothing short of "Neanderthal(s)":

You are absolutely correct, though, that he does write articles for reactions and internet clicks, thereby raising ad revenue. While it is a business practice, it is a bit frustrating to those who believe in truth in journalism. Tom Keegan is following suit with journalism across the country: moving into the tabloid, over-the-top editorial voice instead of reasoned, researched stories.

Now, I do fully understand my own involvement in this news transformation. I read most of Keegan's articles and often leave more than 1 comment. Therefore, I certainly deserve a portion of the blame for the ever-evolving -- or should I say devolving -- style of journalism. However, in my defense I would point out that Tom Keegan has more access to the KU Athletic Department than probably any other reporter in the country, and he is the sports editor for a newspaper that does the vast majority of reporting on the sports team I love the most. Thus, I feel it is my right to present my opinion on how that information is passed on, and KUSports.com and the LJW clearly must agree as they have supplied a comment section -- which has now become a form of social networking -- just for that reason.

I feel it is important, on the other hand, to point out that this particular piece is simply an opinion article on how the basketball team is playing, and Tom simply offered his opinion -- and it's an opinion that isn't too far off the truth, from my point of view. Criticizing Keegan on this particular article seems a little silly to me. That, however, is just my opinion, and I can respect those who disagree. It is definitely true that Keegan is not paid to write flowery columns, that would be the same journalistic crime: not searching out the truth and instead trying to feed into the business side of news.

It is a common trait of Mr. Keegan to scatter small cynical, contemptuous, and often derisive statements throughout his writing, and it is done in an attempt to create reactions and to have those reactions presented in the comments section, thereby raising the aforementioned ad revenue. So to suggest that readers should refrain from stating their opinions on such comments would be antithetical to Keegan's entire business structure.

Tom wants comments. And from the article I posted above, you can see he also reads them.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

*calling THE commenters nothing short....

Sorry, typo.

kcglowboy 3 years, 9 months ago

Well, if it were anyone but Keegan I would say you're right, kusully. But I, too, have had a personal interaction with Keegan that shocked me, leading me to realize that he is at least aware of how unpopular he is among readers. I think he's also aware that his employers don't seem to care how good, bad or mediocre he is. Thus, I would imagine, he could care less that so many of us find his work uninspiring or downright unacceptable.

Christopher Johnson 3 years, 9 months ago

Keegan once emailed me back . . . he's interested in others' opinions, having debates, and interacting with readers. He's not such a bad guy . . . just wrong a lot.

Joe Satterwhite 3 years, 9 months ago

can u guys just relax and get off keegan's back...we're 15-0 when nobody thought we would be and u guys are still complaining...and if keegan's writings are so bad, why would u waste your time reading it and then post how bad it was...keep it coming keegan.

kcglowboy 3 years, 9 months ago

I can't speak for anyone else, but my occasional Keegan complaints have nothing to do with the team and everything to do with the quality of the writing and reporting in the Newspaper of Record covering KU sports. When I complain it's because he's: 1) Completely missed the point; 2) Tried too hard to be cute and flowery in his writing (he's at his best when he gives a straight-forward analysis); or 3) When he writes his occasional "if I ran the world" columns, which have zero journalistic value, and which frequently get passed off as actual news (Arkansas and Notre Dame joining the Big 12).

With all that said, even I think there's too much whining and complaining about Keegan on this site. While Keegan will never be a GREAT writer or columnist, he's more than sufficient most of the time.

Christopher Johnson 3 years, 9 months ago

Keegan's run-on sentences can be quite painful too. They usually happen when he makes an attempt at an anology.

jhwk215 3 years, 9 months ago

All the more reason for Selby to stay at least a couple more years to practice that zone...

gongs4ku 3 years, 9 months ago

Keegan does his job. You're here reading, right? He isn't paid to be boring and say what everybody already knows and believes.

hawksince51 3 years, 9 months ago

I generally agree with the article. One concern I have is that if we practice against the zone all the time and know how to play O against it, then why can't Self coach the guys up during the game to do so? I usually feel Self is a pretty good bench coach, particularly compared to Roy, but I was not impressed on Sunday. In the OT, we did run one very impressive play (the 5 pass one and layup by Marcus) but it was the 3's by Reed and Mk that assured the win.
Another observation is that Selby showed that he is a freshman and there have been very few OADs that you want to rely on heavily when the team is struggling. Hopefully, by March he will prove himself to be more valuable than X was but I remain in the "wait and see" column.

Joe Ross 3 years, 9 months ago

RE: "I dont remember any better juggernaut seasons under Roy than we have now under Self."

Umm...How about 1997?

hawksince51 3 years, 9 months ago

I was attempting to say that Self compared favorably to Roy as a bench coach when I said that "I usually feel Self is a pretty good bench coach, particularly compared to Roy..." But I do not let a coach off the hook in that regard when he says, as you say, "they worked on attacking this very zone in practice, but reverted back during the game to the wrong methodology." I consider it Self's job as the bench coach to call timeouts, make substitutions, talk to them on the bench, etc. to unrevert them when they do revert. Overall I totally agree with your 2nd to last paragraph.

actorman 3 years, 9 months ago

You mean the one that ended in the Sweet 16? Oh yeah, that one.

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