Monday, September 6, 2010

Is Gill facing quarterback quandary?

KU coach Turner Gill, at right in photo at left, might have a quarterback controversy brewing between Jordan Webb, left, and Kale Pick

KU coach Turner Gill, at right in photo at left, might have a quarterback controversy brewing between Jordan Webb, left, and Kale Pick


The stage was set, everything was in place for quarterback Jordan Webb to come in and save Kansas University’s football team during Saturday’s season opener against North Dakota State.

KU football suffers season-opening loss

The Jayhawks took a big step in the wrong direction Saturday as they lost their season opener to North Dakota State. The team will have to regroup before taking on Georgia Tech next week.

Of course, the fact the Jayhawks needed saving in the first place was too much for some people to fathom.

Still, with 11:24 remaining in the fourth quarter, Webb, a red-shirt freshman who began the night as the backup to starter Kale Pick, took over in the huddle with a chance to lead KU to victory.

“That’s something everybody dreams about,” Webb said. “That’s when a competitor wants to do his best. Everyone wants to be in that position. I came in in a position to lead us to victory.”

Didn’t happen. Instead, Webb, like Pick, found little time to throw and struggled to move the Jayhawks down the field with consistency. He finished the night 6-of-11 for 59 yards. Pick, in three quarters, was 13-of-22 for 138 yards. Both QBs were sacked twice, and both, according to KU coach Turner Gill, held onto the ball too long at times.

For most second-stringers, a chance to prove themselves on the field during live action is all they want. Asked if that moment was bittersweet, considering the outcome of Saturday’s game, the 6-foot, 210-pound righty with the rocket arm didn’t paint a rosy picture.

“There wasn’t anything sweet about that game, to be honest,” Webb said. “We didn’t play like we should, we didn’t play like we’re capable of, and it’s disappointing.”

Worse yet, it may have been just the opening stanza of a true quarterback controversy.

After the game, Gill said he did not have “any idea” what he was going to do with the quarterback position. His options? Stay with Pick, who was visibly shaken talking with reporters following Saturday’s loss, or hand the job over to Webb, who, until Saturday, never had played in a college football game.

Tough choice for anyone, one made more difficult by the harsh reality that next up on the Jayhawks’ schedule is Georgia Tech, a team ranked in the top 20 nationally that features a defense that limited South Carolina State quarterback Malcolm Long to 94 yards on 11-of-25 passing in a 41-10 Tech victory in the opener for both teams.

Though Pick admitted to being upset about the way his first start unfolded, he insisted he would not let it bother him long.

“I’ll be fine,” he said. “I’m not worried about my confidence.”

Regardless of which quarterback Gill elects to go with in Saturday’s showdown with Georgia Tech, the rest of the Jayhawks plan to support both guys.

“You can’t get down on them,” junior wideout Daymond Patterson said. “They’re young guys, and we just need to keep pumping them up and get behind them, because once you get down on them everything’s going to go downhill.”

Gill, like most, was disappointed by the way his young guns performed Saturday night. He was careful to point out, however, that the reason KU lost just its second-ever game to an FCS (formerly Div. I-AA) opponent went well beyond which guy was taking the snaps.

“It’s not just the quarterback, (it’s) all areas that we have to (improve),” Gill said. “I understand that the quarterback position is the one we all look at.”

Sunday night, after watching tape and evaluating the position further, Gill said he and offensive coordinator Chuck Long would continue to discuss their quarterbacks as the week progressed.

“Obviously, we made a decision based on the things that occurred (in practices),” Gill said. “And (Pick) showed that he deserved to be the starter. At that time, we just hoped that things would work out. If (things) didn’t, we always said we had two good quarterbacks, so we’re going to continue to evaluate (both of them) and hopefully we’ll find the right guy as soon as possible.”


KU_Alumn_2000 11 years, 1 month ago

hmmm - It's not a good sign that Pick was visibly shaking after the game. Does he have a blood sugar issue...or did he lack confidence and play scared ?

Andy Hess 11 years, 1 month ago

visibly shaken, not shaking. big difference.

Kevin Studer 11 years, 1 month ago

Does it matter who the quarterback is with that lack of offensive line play?

hawk316 11 years, 1 month ago

Bingo! The O-line has to take this one personally and step up. This team...any team...will only go as far as their offensive line takes them.

Ryan Shelton 11 years, 1 month ago

We could always put Toben in there in the wildcat. Shoot two birds with one stone?

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

that would be one of the few options that seems to be needed right now...I'm sure we need LB help, but we need to score. Let him Deion it, and play both sides of the ball (or use a 3rd down back separately)...

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

few options possible on offense And* seems to be needed right now given our ground attack.

John Mueller 11 years, 1 month ago

totally agree, cusack. I thought the O-line would be an area of strength on this team, but they couldn't block ANYBODY.

They were lousy in the run game and they were worse in the passing game.

And, that was against a bunch of small defensive players. I watched both the Rice -Texas game and the Tech SMU game.

I honestly think both Rice and SMU would kick our butts.

I do agree with what somebody said the other day as well. Move Toben back to RB. We don't have a running back. I don't care if Quigley has 12 years of eligibility, he isn't a player. A with all due respect to Tuxedo, his son is too small to play D1 football.

I thought we got outplayed in the kicking game as well. We couldn't even block their guys to give Patterson a shot at a punt return. AND, we get a punt blocked.

I mean, it was completely AWFUL. Forget the QB play, that, to me, is one of a million issues. I thought this coaching staff laid a huge egg with the exception of Torbush and his defense was playing an inferior opponent.

We're going to need the mercy rule on Saturday. How far we have dropped!

We need so many players, we need to get an exemption from the NCAA so we can sign 50 next spring.

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 1 month ago

I agree their are a lot of problems on offense, but Sands hasn't proved yet to be one of them. You can't judge any of these backs the way the line blocked Saturday. That was truly awful!!!

Steven Mathew 11 years, 1 month ago

It's not us dropping so far. It's more of us returning to our usual form such as us wondering if KU football even existed.

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

wait til we have athletic recruits...hopefully gill will stay long enough to see his boys play.

Jeffery Barrett 11 years, 1 month ago

Barry Sanders would have trouble running behind this offensive line.

JVZMan 11 years, 1 month ago

I only watched the game on computer with game cast and have watched Webb for three years in high school. I admit I know little to nothing about Pick other than what is on chat board. Pick is a Kansas kid so I imagine he would be a favorite on the chat board. I have however, have seen Webb lead a team back from being down 19 points only to win the game. Pick had 3/4 of the game and Webb had 1/4. Webb did lead the team down for a chance to tie the game. Field goal missed. He started another drive, 24 yard pass completed and fumbled.

Turner said when choosing the QB he looked at the intangibles, who took care of the ball. Pick threw and INT in the endzone, that alone could have changed the game. A short field goal ties the game and Webb doen't play at all.

It will be tough next week for either QB, but I think Webb did alright considering he didn't get as many reps as Pick did the final days of practice. So it will be a difficult decision for Gill this week.

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 1 month ago

Webb's only drive was aided by 35 yards in stupid NDSU penalties, I'd say they both played pretty flawed games.

hawk316 11 years, 1 month ago

Just a bit harsh, don't you think? Tanner must have done something right to be selected pre-season all-Big XII.

steamboat 11 years, 1 month ago

Gill didn't have a problem switching players from there original positions to places he wanted them to play for example moving Toben from rb to the defensive side. Maybe he oughta look on his roster and find someboby else to be the QB. If I recall Nolan Cromwell wasn't recruited as a QB but turned out to be a GREAT one. This is panic time, whether it's the first game or not our offense is the worst I've ever seen and I've been watching KU sports for 45 years. We need some answers NOW because the non-con and Big12 ain't gonna get any easier.

ibleedku 11 years, 1 month ago

LOL......this is grade A material....

gongs4ku 11 years, 1 month ago

Two subpar quarterbacks backed up by an abysmal offensive line. There's no controversy. We're doomed.

Tony Bandle 11 years, 1 month ago

Having not been at or seen the game, I can only surmise that the O-line [as it is in many defeats in football] underperformed. No sarcasm or jokes here, just some suggestions:

1] Keep a back in for extra protection. 2] Roll the pocket either left or right to buy some time and possibly open up some Quarterback running opportunities. 3] Try the shovel pass up in middle...deters the rush and is safe since it is a forward throw. 4] Throw in a screen pass once in a while. 5] If you're in the spread, go under center once in a while. 6] If you're under the center, go into the spread once in a while. 7] Run the QB option. 8] Something I have wondered for the last several years....why not go into the Wishbone? It's been a long time since it was used, and, as a surprise play, it would catch the Defense totally of guard. Just keep it for that critical play in the game. 9] Try more gimmick plays....double reverses, flanker pass, etc. 10] If all else fails, go into straight ahead zone blocking...keep it simple.

Maybe KU tried all of these, but I think you need diversity on Offense to succeed.

Eric Williams 11 years, 1 month ago

  1. Tried it, but no luck picking up blocks.

  2. Only happened once pocket collapsed, i.e. scrambling.

  3. Non-existent

  4. This is all we did. We had 2 passes that were 20 yards or longer.

5/6. We were under center for first 3 quarters, then shotgun in Q4.

  1. We ran it a few times early in the game. Got 3 yards at most.

  2. Maybe...

  3. Double reverse gained 50 yards on a run. I don't think I saw a single play-action pass though.

  4. Maybe...

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 1 month ago

Pretty good summary, 613. The only thing I would add is that item number 1 almost saved the game. Had Foster not been in on one of the plays around the goal line, he couldn't have recovered the fumbled snap, a play or two before Pick got picked. Not much else could have gone wrong.

DevilHawk 11 years, 1 month ago

Plain and simple: offense starts at the o-line.

Kevin Kelly 11 years, 1 month ago

The only thing better than being right on the internets is being a complete as$hat about it.

KGphoto 11 years, 1 month ago

What good is being a fan, if all you do is bitch, and pat yourself on the back when your team fails?

Seriously, you're kind of pathetic.

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

mulaza also picked the utah jazz two years in a row to beat Michael Jordan and the Bulls...just like Skip Bayless. Love to Hate! Hate to Love!

minipman 11 years, 1 month ago

its pretty simple.. leave pick at qb.. its his first college start.. ur biggest problem is your running backs.. sands is to small to try to run behind our line.. ur best player is toben opurum and he's sittin on the bench..START him at RB saturday! also play chris omigie.. give pick a big reciever out there..if gill doesnt move toben back to rb then he's just stupid and apparently only wants to be head coach at KU for one year

khummel60 11 years, 1 month ago

Webb seemed to demonstrate a better game presence, but its easy to look like a gunslinger when you have nothing to lose. Given the performance of our O-Line it seems clear we need to have our most mobile quarterback out there, which is Pick. I agree with OakvilleJHawk that the coaches will need to be creative and find ways to compensate for our under-performing offensive line. Clearly Pick was rattled out there, and he needs to gain some confidence. Difficult to do that, however, when you can't run the ball, and your running for your life on every down.

JBurtin 11 years, 1 month ago

Pick may be the faster quarterback, but I wouldn't classify him as more mobile. Pick seems to stay put in the pocket and wait for the play to develop (nothing wrong with that as it can be legitimately successful and is the style preferred on the NFL level). Webb on the other hand seems to be comfortable with rolling out of the pocket to create opportunities.

To me it seems like our O-line needs more time to gel to create a consistent run game. We tried to establish the run and NDSU picked their poison and decided to stack the box to stop it. Once they had shown that they could shut it down they kept the box stacked against our passing game and were able to get pressure quick enough to disrupt the offense.

I like both quarterbacks and think that each of them is just in need of some experience. However, considering where we're at with our o-line I think Webb's style may end up being more successful.

khummel60 11 years, 1 month ago

If Webb is better at rolling out of the pocket, then I agree with you - Webb should be out there, or at least get a shot at it. Unless our OL demonstrates miraculous improvement, and our backs do a much better job of picking up blitzes, there will be no pocket to stand in this year.

JayhawkSam 11 years, 1 month ago

Is it just me or should Tim Biere be looking for more time on the Bench? He dropped at least 4 passes and when he caught the ball he put it on the ground (twice!) I agree with the statement that Toben Opurum needs to be moved back to running back. He is way to talented to be standing on the sideline. I do think both quarterbacks could have done better but I also think they could have got a lot of help from the receivers catching the ball.

John Beck 11 years, 1 month ago

minipman- harsh but I totally agree.
If the O line coach can't get something going, then we may not score on offense this year in spite of some good skill players. The line was that bad. Pick is the guy if he can just get 2-3 seconds before the collapse to actually do something. Webb has all the traits of why we were 0-7 last year.

mjhawkchalk 11 years, 1 month ago

Pick looked 10X better then Webb. It all starts with a good RB, which KU doesn't have, unless they move Toben Opurum to RB.

HuskeJoe 11 years, 1 month ago

What do you expect from a University that only cares about basketball? Get ready for the Georgia Wreck!


ibleedku 11 years, 1 month ago

Why are you on a KU message board? Is your life that pathetic?

ewest1111 11 years, 1 month ago

There is absolutely no problem at QB. Pick is the guy. The quandry for Gill is that he isn't a D1 coach, he is poor at evaluating the talent that he has. And even worse, he has made these kids soooooooo soft already. I simply can't believe what I witnessed on Saturday night. I have never seen a high school JV team that unprepared and unorganized.

kureader 11 years, 1 month ago

Poor coaching is right ... Gill screwed up 2 quarterbacks in one game. If there's a position that requires poise and confidence, it's the QB position. Pick now knows every time he throws an interception he'll get pulled. Webb, having never played a game, gets put into a 4th quarter come from behind situation and couldn't make up for poor blocking, dropped passes, fumbles and a 2 yard per carry running attack. Gill you had almost a year to evaluate Pick. Let him play the entire game. If, come Sunday, you want to make a change. Fine. If you're gonna pull somebody ... how about your tight end ... or your offensive coordinator?

John Beck 11 years, 1 month ago

Could not agree more with all points based on what we saw Sat. D coaching was good enough to win that game but the rest was awful. The O line did form a pocket for Pick a couple of times, can we build on that and figure out how to make a small hole for Toben? Better get more LB's and big Safeties to back up the D line. Not a strong bunch. The QB "controversy" is a joke. A knee jerk in the 4th to try to pull out a disaster caused by poor organization and coaching the first three qtrs Get the ball to Patterson, DJ and Toben. AJ needs a start at TE. PICK IS THE MAN!

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 1 month ago

The Gill can't evaluate talent crowd need to get a grip. Mangino was CONSTANTLY shuffling people around. In fact, it's been pretty consistent that Patterson was the best offensive player on the field Saturday, and Mangino played him at CB and then sat him on the bench for half the season last year. The constant here is a lack of talent at certain positions. Maybe, just maybe, it'll take more than one game for EVERYBODY, not just Gill, to figure out where everybody fits in best.

milehighhawk 11 years, 1 month ago

Hope Gill still has Connor Teahan's number handy

phi4life940 11 years, 1 month ago

This drunk kid in the student section tried to start a "Cooonnnnerr Teeeaaahaann" chant. He was being pretty obnoxious though so no one joined in. Maybe I should have.....haha

khummel60 11 years, 1 month ago

Great article. Couldn't agree more. Give Gill some time.

khummel60 11 years, 1 month ago

You must have some information I don't have about last years game against Nebraska. Didn't we lose that game 31-17? If we dominated their DL then I don't understand how we didn't score more points. After KU's win against Duke, every game I watched last year I saw Reesing running for his life. The only team in the Big-12 that gave up more sacks last year than Kansas is Colorado. That Kansas scored as much as they did (they ranked 2nd in passing offense in the Big-12) is a testament to Reesing, Brisco, Meier, and others who are now gone. An O-line that gives up that many sacks and ranks 9th in the Big-12 in rushing offense is not very good (IMHO). And while I agree with your advice that they need to take baby steps, these lineman are simply not going to dominate in the trenches, no matter how much you "dumb it down". I'm afraid "five yards and a cloud of dust" is not going to be in our playbook this year.

Bee Bee 11 years, 1 month ago

Gill has a QB quandary alright....



Just awful!

Fletcher Anderson 11 years, 1 month ago

Add a play calling quandary and a head coach quandary

jaron_1984 11 years, 1 month ago

No we don't have a RB problem, we have an OL problem! You can't put anything on the RB's because as soon as they were getting the ball, there was a NDSU player right in his face. I thought Angus looked quicker and lighter than the last time we saw him, but he didn't have time to do anything. Once again, this is the reason we already have 6 OL committments for the 2011 class and the reason we are still recruiting more! The most important/underrated position on the field is for sure the OL.

khummel60 11 years, 1 month ago

Agreed. It's amazing to me how many people forget just how bad our OL was a year ago. Put anyone but Reesing out there last year, and it would have looked allot like the game against NDSU. Why would it be so much better this year? I do think they'll improve, but it will likely be a year or two before we see real improvement in the trenches.

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 1 month ago

Some sense! Thank you jaron and khummel!

babyjay1 11 years, 1 month ago

Does anyone know how many OL we have recruited for next year? Seems to me that I've had a lot of texts stating another OL has committed. Not sure if I'm a TG fan or not but I will give him this year, see who he's recruited for next year and how things go... The OL really seems to be the biggest problem this year but I don't know enough to know if they can be "coached up" or are they just too horrible??

Gary Wirsig 11 years, 1 month ago

My thoughts as well, babyjay. With all the recruiting of O linemen the last few months, it looks like Coach Gill saw the weakness and started doing something about it.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 1 month ago

Are they still coming?

I would be rethinking my verbal commitment.

And believe me, if there was someone on the fence, I'm sure calls are being made.

Gary Wirsig 11 years, 1 month ago

Good point. On the other hand, they may be looking forward to immediate playing time!

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 1 month ago

At least we were the lead on Sportscenter.

90sHawk 11 years, 1 month ago

Only able to listen to the game some on radio; very poor showing by KU. While the overall talent is lacking, to get beat by NDSU on your home field is embarassing. It's obvious they weren't prepared and disorganized, and that is the coaching staffs fault. But the coaches cant block or catch passes and that poor excuse of O-line play and fumbling the ball squarely falls on the players. I won't give up on the year though, no matter how bad it gets. For those posters yesterday screaming how much they want Mangino back ask yourself this: How on earth do we have this much lack of talent on this team 2 years removed from an Orange Bowl win? Not taking advantage of a signature program win like that squarely falls on the big guy. Turner should be working with much higher Big 12 caliber talent right now than he is.

babyjay1 11 years, 1 month ago

Absolutely... Mangino had every opportunity to have recruited a higher level of talent! Everyone who is judging TG on less than one season and not even enough time to recruit for the year we're in, needs to re-assess! I will never call for MM back - even if he could coach, he was not the type of MAN I want affiliated with a KU program!

Bear86 11 years, 1 month ago

Hey babyjay1, I don't want MM back either but losing to a D2/FCS school is unacceptable. We are the laughing stock of CFB. How do you think we will fare next weekend?

Larry Smith 11 years, 1 month ago


I agree with you whole heartedly. Maybe the real reason the team lost their last 7 and realistically could have gone 0 fer during conference play was due to the lack of talent on the field. That lies squarely on the shoulders of the former coaching staff. Before we rake Gill over the coals, I will give him an opportunity to see what he brings in, and see what he can get done. It was definitely a tough loss, but when you looked across the line of scrimmage, did you see any position in which Kansas had the advantage? I did not, and that is the sad reality of it all. Even Mangino could only muster 1 conference win with this type of talent.

DevilHawk 11 years, 1 month ago

Mangino's record: 2-10; 6-7; 4-7; 7-5; 6-6; 12-1; 8-5; 5-7

Excellent seasons: 1 Good season: 1 Mediocre season: 4 Bad season: 1 Miserable season: 1

Under Mangino we had a similar pattern as KU has always had: mostly mediocre or bad seasons sprinkled with a rare excellent or good season. Mangino's size and Lew's actions brought attention to KU football, but the record is about the same as it has always been.

Here are the yearly records:

Lew and Mangino raised awareness of the program and brought in some better talent, but it still takes some time to address all the issues that the team faces - including "fans" who give up on the team after Game 1. We also got lucky by bringing in diamond-in-the-rough players.

However, Gill is currently out-recruiting Mangino except following the 2007 season.

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

lol are u mangino's kid? Cuz if you want him you are not a KU fan.

jayhawkarmy 11 years, 1 month ago

Ever since this loss all i have read here is bad comments on ku and the staff and players we are jayhawks it sucks to lose and yes i know to a d2 school how do you think michigan felt and did you guys see ole miss go down i think ku thought that they had it in the bag and went out and forgot to play football remember until that game we only played each other so we didnt really know how good or bad we were lets stop bitching and start cheering them on win or lose we are jayhawk fans are we gonna give up on ku basketball cause we got beat my N I no we move on and hope for the best lets get out there and root them on against GT

Cal Bender 11 years, 1 month ago

It's the coach's job to see that the team doesn't go on the field on game day with that kind of attitude. I have another suggestion: Insist on receiving Chuck Long's resignation NOW, and ask Don Fambrough to select a replacement. Even at his age, which I believe is 88, I trust his judgment more than Gill's. Then, very soon, let Gill know he won't be coaching the Jayhawks after this season!

David Robinett 11 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, that worked out well for the Chiefs last season (firing the OC at the start of the season).

newjayhawk 11 years, 1 month ago

I said it before! The definition of a fool - is someone who does the same thing and expects different results! We have the same characters from last years team , minus the 4 or 5 best in school history. How in the name of God did you people believe they were going to be better. These coaches coach according to public opinion it seems. All I have heard is let the best players play! Hogwash! We're recruiting speed....FOR WHAT!! MESSAGE TO COACHES----you got speed and talent, NOW USE IT! Quit focusing your eyes on two or three kids and look at your whole got#@!! team. Get your heads out of your high and mighty as#@!!holes and see what you have in front of you!!! THERE IS TALENT ON THIS TEAM!

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

learn about the recruiting process and what a red-shirt is please.

tanntann01 11 years, 1 month ago

Put Opurum back at RB. PLEASE, and maybe Christian Matthews at qb?

KUFan445101 11 years, 1 month ago

Thank God for good defense. Strong Safety Oguntodu (44) played a great game as 52. Oguntodu is one of our biggest safeties and he is quick. Will be interesting to see how the defense does against GA Tech and a completely different offense.

djhawk75 11 years, 1 month ago

The negative attitude toward Gill is very annoying. The guy is taking over a team that had lost 7 games in a row, AND THEN lost ALL of it's star players. To make matters worse, there was no one in the waiting to take over for last year's stars. (Perhaps there is an exception at the receiver position.) It seems the biggest problem is that we fans just drank too much juice and believed that we had way more talent than we really had. The players on this year's team have to come together as a team with no returning star to lead them and with a new coaching staff. That is very difficult to do, especially under unreasonable expectations. And the players made the sort of mistakes that uptight players make. I expect them to settle down and play better next week and every week thereafter. Give Gill a chance to prove that he can get the players to improve as the season goes.

gardenjay 11 years, 1 month ago

Totally agree dj. Thank you for the increasing number of Gill-defenders, and also am looking forward to our defensive unit against GT. Go Hawks!

Brian Powell 11 years, 1 month ago

I have nothing against Gill and do think he'll succeed in the long run, and think he's probably doing the best he can in this transition....BUT:

He's a former QB, but pulling Toben from the back position was a bad move.

If Gill wants to be an air-attack-big-twelve team and relive the glory of his QB days, he needs a good QB and a good O line and good receivers. IN THE MEANTIME, let Toben loose.

David Robinett 11 years, 1 month ago

How about some FREE TOBEN signs at the game...

actorman 11 years, 1 month ago

I realize this puts me in the extreme minority, but I think both QBs played fairly well. The only thing that I thought was truly horrible was the interception that Pick threw. He said he hadn't seen the guy, but even if that guy hadn't been there it looked like it could have been intercepted by the other guy. So that was a truly dreadful decision. But otherwise, I thought both he and Webb played pretty well. Keep in mind all the other factors that had much more to do with how badly KU played: two fumbles, two missed field goals, a blocked punt, virtually no room to run, very little time to throw the ball because of constant pressure, several crucial dropped passes (at least two of them by the same supposedly All-American-caliber tight end who fumbled twice), and some costly penalties. Throw all that in and it would have been hard for JOHN ELWAY to do anything. The QBs are the least of our problems ...

actorman 11 years, 1 month ago

And oh, by the way, LAJayhawk, I'll bet you any amount you choose that KU will win at least one game. It's pretty stupid to make a comment like that based on ONE GAME!

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

we played a D2 school buddy. Get with the program.

Seth Peattie 11 years, 1 month ago

you stick to what you know (donuts, TV dinners and adult websites). i know football. tell us, actorman - who are we going to beat?

actorman 11 years, 1 month ago

Thanks again LJW, for your ridiculous and nonsensical censorship. Both "John Elway" and "one game" were supposed to be in all caps.

superdave 11 years, 1 month ago

I thought we were transitioning from the spread to a smash-mouth offense this year. A poor running game against a lowly oponent doesn't instill much confidence in the new approach. Things will only get much, much tougher as the schedule progresses. This could be a loonng year. To all of those who bashed Keegan for making his 4-8 season prediction: the old guy may have been painting a too-rosy picture, for once.

DevilHawk 11 years, 1 month ago

It starts at the o-line. It was largely considered to be a strength for this season, but it was distinctly absent at the game. The transition is also why we focused our recruiting on the o-line at the start of this recruiting year.

djhawk75 11 years, 1 month ago

I'd be more upset if Gill does not call Osborne, or some other former D1 coach, for suggestions. He's in a tough situation--taking over an under-talented team with rabid, unreasonable fans--and he could use some good consultation. If Gill were to believe that he could figure out this situation on his own I'd be worried. But if he's collecting some new insights into what he can do to fix the problems that have befallen this program from a national champion I'm all for it. That's what coaches do, anyway, seek and give consultation with one another.

Mike Gammill 11 years, 1 month ago

I think the whole team had better have a quandry and they should all be visibly shaken after a crap performance like that one!

hailtoku 11 years, 1 month ago

Its pretty sad when my prediction of 4-8, which was mocked all summer, is now in jeopardy as that was one of the four wins I accounted for.



KU_FanSince75 11 years, 1 month ago

"Gill called Osborne and asked for some suggestions on what to do now." by jayhawkinnebr.

Really? Wow! That's sad, if that really happened. I have some advise for Coach Gill that comes from "coaching 101"-----Hang on to your timeouts---that really mad you look bad. And when the Jayhawks used their last timeout in the second half, Gill wasn't even upset. That's unacceptable.

For the record, I am not a Gill hater. I will give him his time. However, like in the "Wizard of Oz"-----the sand is slipping through the hourglass very quickly!

jeff jarred 11 years, 1 month ago

Guys, it seems there are too many on this board who have never played the game or have forgotten what it was like. I agree with those that complain about the lackadaisical attitude the team had, the mental lapses, the horrible play-calling and time management. There really are no excuses for that even being a part of this game at this level. They should have been focused and prepared well beyond what the were.

I also understand that as far as the player positions on the team, they are trying to instill their program and are working with a different type of athlete as far as the line (spread to power) and skill positions. Square pegs in round holes. This is a coaching philosophy only; they should do like all great coaching staffs and design the plays around the talent they have. There is no excuse for losing to a D2 team, even with "mediocre" talent (much improved over when Mangino arrived, for those with revisionist memories). We have to realize that these players were recruited for a different type of offense.

Will it get better? Not this year. Unless they change their style to something more suitable for the talent.

gardenjay 11 years, 1 month ago

I would guess most football fans have never even played high school football. It's really hard on the body, not that other sports aren't I've found, but especially didn't like the head buzz part.

I really admire these modern-day football Spartans. I get upset with fans booing and fans trashing the team when they certainly aren't the ones on the field taking the punishment. So many fans don't understand what it's like to get punished that way.

These are not professional atheletes, they are students from our alma mater, which should be a good enough reason to be fans. That KUAD corporate view was never one I agreed with, where success sells and pretty soon you forget that the jayhawk is a corporate, not collegiate emblem. That's where I can see fans getting upset, because they are 'paying' for success. Bleah.

Coach Gill certainly did not appear pleased after the game on Saturday. Some posters seem to say otherwise - that's ridiculous. Don't expect Mangino responses from Gill in interviews, such as 'everyone deserves a bad century'; this is a different type of coach.

I believe it will get better this year if we get behind this team. I think the economy is down and people are really hoping for something to root for. Don't kick your dog. Put your passion in the right place.

It may have been a dream, but I recall KU beating Oklahoma at home in the middle of a dark period for KU football, during my time at KU. I didn't have to post my fan-ship in those days: i went to the games - so nice.

The current KU defense is strong, and it is stronger with Toben. That's positive news. If all you do is root for the defense, then there you go. But find that angle to support, and expand there.

KU_FanSince75 11 years, 1 month ago

@ gardenjay-----Well said and you bring up some valid points. Rock Chalk!

HawkNVegas 11 years, 1 month ago

We're going to get punked by that GT offense something sincere. Forget about our "O" it's basically non-existent at this point. North Dakoter State came in to a silent Memorial Stadium, with Kivisidcoifo field lit up for all to see the new age debacle of a team. Poor guys thought they would beat a D 2 squad, now the big girls need to wake up, cuz it won't ever get any easier that Dakota State, sorry.

Randy Bombardier 11 years, 1 month ago

I am afraid dear fans that we must give TG at minimum 6 years to gain credibility. That is what it took MM. If this was a bad hire only time will tell, but I think it is a drastic mistake to rehire every 3 or 4 years. KU is barely over 500 all-time wins. If he is 6-6 next year or the year after, that is about what we should expect. If he gets to 8 or 9 wins by year 5, then there is reason to keep a coach as they are progressing. I really did not think we would have to start at the bottom again, but I was being naive. Face it, guys, we did not want to believe it but I will say it. Keegs, you were right. In fact, even as you said, you were being optimistic to believe that we would win 4 games this year. Every one talks about lack of talent. I dont agree at all. We have it. It will take a couple of seasons for the team to hone their skills; that is what is lacking. Experience and skill. Now, the coaching issues will also just need to be ironed out, but they can be.

caribhawk 11 years, 1 month ago

Gill is off to a start that makes Ron Prince look like a genius! All facets of the game sucked, its as easy as that! Can we be optimistic and think it can only get better- - NO! When KU was in the red zone and needed some unpredictable or gutsy play calling, Long was shakin' in his shoes and could not deliver any plays...thus the delay calls. The person I will miss the most is offensive coordinator Ed Warinner. I can stomach that KU defense is below par, that is not unusual. But KU's offensive play calling and offensive sets under Warinner were always stellar and was the equalizer in many Big 12 games. If Gill is trying to turn KU into a running team first, ala Nebraska, it will take longer than Gill's contract length, and even then it won't happen consistently. Gill does not need, and should not get, 6 years to prove himself. KU cannot afford to fall 6 years behind K-State and Missouri. If measurable improvement is not made after next season (two years of Gill recruiting), KU needs to act quickly with the hook. Gill may be a good Div. II coach or small Div. I coach, and perhaps that should remain his home.

Randy Bombardier 11 years, 1 month ago

I agree. When Gill decided to start all over with staff, it made me think either he really knows what he wants to do or he has no clue at all. I hope the latter is not true. I worried ever since 07 that we would lose Wariner. I never dreamed he would get canned.

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