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Originally published August 20, 2009 at 01:19a.m., updated August 20, 2009 at 03:28p.m.

NCAA announces Memphis will be required to forfeit 2007-08 victories

Final Four season to be lost

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— Memphis has been stripped by the NCAA of every victory in its 38-win season under coach John Calipari that ended in the national title game last year. The reason: an ineligible player believed to be Derrick Rose.

The announcement Thursday came 16 months after the Tigers lost to Kansas in the championship game following the 2007-08 season. School officials were expected to discuss the report later in the day.

It is the second time both Memphis and Calipari had to vacate Final Four seasons. The Tigers were stripped of their 1985 appearance and Calipari’s Massachusetts team lost its 1996 berth.

Calipari is now the head coach at Kentucky, where officials have voiced support for him despite the Memphis scandal.

“I’m not worried about it because they have never said Coach Cal did anything wrong at all,” said Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear, who appeared with Calipari at the Kentucky State Fair on Thursday before the NCAA announcement. “I think he’s a very upstanding guy. I think that’s his reputation and I think that reputation will be with him here. I really don’t foresee any problems.”

Asked about the possibility of a vacated season Calipari said: “I would be disappointed if that’s what they chose to do.”

Memphis finished 38-2 in 2007-08, setting the NCAA record for wins in a season.

In its report, the NCAA did not identify the ineligible player by name, though earlier descriptions of him lead to the conclusion it could only be Rose. He was taken by the Chicago Bulls as the No. 1 pick in the 2008 draft and went on to win the NBA rookie of the year award.

The player was accused of having another person take his SAT exam so he would be eligible as a freshman. Memphis argued it did not have enough information to substantiate the allegations in November 2007 and cleared him to play.

However, the SAT officials later conducted their own investigation and notified the player, the university and the NCAA’s eligibility center that they were canceling his test in May 2008.

The agency said it sent letters to the player in March and April 2008; the second letter was sent three days after Rose and the Tigers lost to the Jayhawks. The player did not respond to either letter.

The infractions committee said it struck hard with its penalties because the ineligible player was used the entire season.

In addition to the lost season, Memphis must also return the money it received from the NCAA tournament to Conference USA and will be prevented from receiving future shares doled out in the conference’s revenue-sharing program.

Rose and his agent did not immediately respond to requests for comment. Two weeks ago, he told reporters he had talked with Calipari about the situation. “I know I didn’t do anything wrong,” he said.

The NCAA said the committee pressed Memphis officials during a hearing on the matter about why steps weren’t taken in November 2007 to bench the ineligible player and avoid problems.

The committee also said the player’s brother received free transportation on the team’s charter plane and hotel lodging that season. Investigators said the total cost would have come to $1,713.85. Such an arrangement is considered an impermissible extra benefit.

“Neither the travel coordinator nor the business director had an explanation as to how the brother was permitted to board without having paid for the two flights,” the NCAA report said.

The school’s women’s golf team also received three years probation and lost a scholarship for violations in its program.

Comments

100 10 years, 5 months ago

Pretty amazing how two guys (John Calipari & Wes Anderson) can run a program into the ground, knowingly using guys they knew couldn't pass an SAT, leave town, take a 20 million dollar pay raise due to the now-celebrity status he attained thanks to Rose & Dozier, two athletes not even qualified to be freshman at Memphis, all the while taking multiple top high school players who wouldn't have gone to Memphis after they found out he was being investigated...

By the way, I guess that puts KU at the top of the list in college basketball history with 37 wins in 2008.

waywardJay 10 years, 5 months ago

this is astonishing that it will not follow Calipari to Kentucky. That Slick bastard gets away with everything.

We get punished for roy's actions when Roy oks gifts to outgoing seniors, however Cal uses these kids anyway and he gets nothing.

( ok 100 just said pretty much the exact same thing..... )

The Ncaa sucks.

waywardJay 10 years, 5 months ago

Drgn... how about those poor bracketers who dole out there money and pick kansas as the national champions, only to lose because memphis beat out texas for the final four.....

Now that Memphis has vacate it's wins, doesn't that then mean we have to go back and refigure who won those bracket pools ( no one enters brackt pools..... it's illegal to bet on college sporting events, right neuheisel ??? )

Alex Wishart 10 years, 5 months ago

hahaha Memphis cheated and we still beat them. hey UK fans, how do you like him now?

waywardJay 10 years, 5 months ago

For anyone who watched, as good as Derrick Rose IS, he's nothing until he gets that jumpshot consistantly..... even in the pros he's missing it. I almost lost it when he made that BANK three ball in the title game, Looks like it worked for us anyway.....

I'm begining to think Chicago made a hug mistake in taking DRose 1st overall, Beasley was coming on late last year..... And Until Rose gets that shot.... he's not complete.

Ryan Wood 10 years, 5 months ago

vacating wins is a joke punishment...nobody cares. No Memphis fan will say "man that 2008 season was fun, too bad we ended up getting zero victories."

If you want to hit them where it hurts, take away scholarships. Calipari's scholarships, wherever he is.

Matthew Goble 10 years, 5 months ago

HowMuchRice ... I completely agree. Vacating wins is a joke. I liken it to a judge telling a jury to "strike those comments from the record." Yeah, sure thing judge. I also think that punishing Memphis in this situation doesn't seem as appropriate, seeing as how Calipari is no longer part of the program. I'll be very interested to see what exactly is contained in the NCAA's report.

Eurekahwk 10 years, 5 months ago

You don't think vacating wins hurts? Memphis can now say that they've had two Final Fours vacated, and you don't think they care? I bet they do.

MinnesotaJay 10 years, 5 months ago

Kentucky officials and fans are thrilled to have Calipari - publicly, that is. Privately, officials have got to be quaking in their boots, knowing they could be next. Fans just have to stay in elective denial mode.

At UK, your wins will carry a dual value, one for the full value as they are recorded, and another probabilistic long term expected value which takes into account the likelihood that they may be wiped out at some future time.

Scatterhawk 10 years, 5 months ago

Do you think Hinrich gives Rose crap about this once the Bulls get back together for pre-season?

Kent Wells 10 years, 5 months ago

KU had already vacated the win that mattered the most to Memphis. Rock Chalk, baby!

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 5 months ago

Will the banner that hangs in the Fed Ex Forum in Memphis, commemerating the record, be removed and sent back to the NCAA and remade for us to hang in AFH? I think it should be hung beside the one that we'll earn this season for the record number of wins in this season as well.

Joe Ross 10 years, 5 months ago

Not quite as egregious as Kelvin Sampsons 500 impermissable phone calls at OU and 10 conference calls at IU, but very analogous to the Calipari situation where you have a coach running the ship aground at two schools with NCAA violations. My question is why the NCAA wouldnt take a similar approach with Calipari as they did with Sampson. Yeah, I know that Calipari was never formally accused of wrongdoing at UMass, but where there's smoke there's fire. Besides, how "coincidental" is it that at two schools he's had issues? He has the dubious distinction of being the only coach to have to vacate 2 Final Four Appearances. You HAVE to read this blog from the University of Maryland:

http://turtle-soup.com/wp/2009/05/28/john-calipari-is-a-cheat-who-knew/

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 5 months ago

Great story by the AP this morning. Here's the best part:

Mitch Barnhart, the president of Kentucky who hired Calipari away from Memphis earlier this year, told the AP last week he's not concerned about the potential violations that became known only after Calipari was hired. The coach has not been deemed "at risk" by the NCAA, and Barnhart stressed Calipari is eager to help the Wildcats win the right way.

"There's one thing John says, 'I want my banners to count for something and I want to put the rings on the fingers and let them stay there,'" Barnhart said. "That's important to him and so he is embracing any help that we give him to make sure we're able to, at the end of the day, not have to look over our shoulders and worry."

Cal probably wears rings from his Memphis and UMass Final Four on his middle fingers of each hand.

NH_JHawk 10 years, 5 months ago

We have an old saying in Memphis and I know we have it in Texas too. "fool me once, shame on......shame on......... you. fool me twice....... well you cant fool me again.

Dyrk Dugan 10 years, 5 months ago

i just hope we play the kitties in the NCAA tourney this year...and hammer them. at some point, Calipari will have enough scandal in his history to end his college coaching career....and it may very well occur in Lexington.

However, UK has enough of their own legacy tarnished with their own scandals....so he may fit right in. You don't think the NCAA will have its full antenna up on this program now? You bet your tail they will.

areyouserious 10 years, 5 months ago

Name the only coach in the history of this universe to take a team to 2 championship games but have no record of it with the NCAA??????

Classic........Kentucky, maybe you want to reconsider Gillespie

jayhawkinATL 10 years, 5 months ago

Does this mean we have the record with 37???

Jay Krueger 10 years, 5 months ago

== alexwishawk (anonymous) says...

hahaha Memphis cheated and we still beat them. hey UK fans, how do you like him now? ==

haha! Awesome. That's exactly what I was gonna post.

DCJayhawk0208 10 years, 5 months ago

There's another interesting point here. With how well KU and UNC are doing, if UK ends up at some point in the future having to vacate a season of wins, that will drop them from leading the all-time wins list.

How popular will Cal be if UK loses the all-time wins title because they cheated?

jayhawkinATL 10 years, 5 months ago

I guess we tie several other schools for the record now.

Duke (1986,1999) UNLV (1987) Illinois (2005)

Dee Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

Hopefully this will end any discussion of John Calipari ever coming to KU. God for bid if anything happens to Bill Self. I remember when Roy Williams left and several people thought John Calipari would be a great choice for KU. Thank God we got Bill Self. Look at John Calipari's history. UMass and now Memphis. Probably safe to say in about 6 to 8 years you can add Kentucky to that list.

Joe Baker 10 years, 5 months ago

jross1972 (Joe Ross) says

I agree... I just hope all his current and future recruits will take note of his record. Wipe away the grease and see him for what he really is, a program wrecker and a reputation damaged career. Rose and all the other sapps will now have that hanging over them for the rest of their careers. Yeah, they can laugh all the way to the bank, but deep down they're not the players with character. They will be a bunch of high paid frauds that cheated their way through a program. But hey, it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game! Right? Shame on Calasleazy for all this mess and Memphis isn't innocent either. They knew of his shady reputation when they hired him. I won't feel sympathy for UK either. They are desparate and will do anything to win a NC. They sold the farm when they hired this cheat.

suttonku (anonymous) says... Hey Kentucky, Enjoy!!!!

Indeed UK, enjoy all you can because your day is coming. In fact, my guess is your little all-star Wall may just cause you to hit a wall. That boy had academic issues and all of a sudden he's eligible? right! Be afraid, be very afraid UK!! Watch your back...

Joe Ross 10 years, 5 months ago

truehawk...I think your "paste" function experienced failure...

Jay Krueger 10 years, 5 months ago

Honestly, I feel bad for Texas. They lost the regional final to a Memphis team that cheated and who now has to vacate that win, but that won't get Texas a Final Four banner. The Longhorns should be pissed.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

Memphis fans are pissed! Take a look a these message boards. I feel bad for Memphis because I actually think this was the NCAA's doing.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/aug/19/source-memphis-tigers-will-forfeit-2008s-record-ba/

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/12087903

I like how a lot of the posters are bringing up the Arthur and Mayo information. What they forget is that USC was punished for the Mayo incident, however, it is still undecided about Reggie Bush. They certainly are bringing up Arthur every chance they get.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

Oh, and speaking of the all-time wins, I like what DCjayhawk stated. It is a testament to what KU and UNC are doing. Kansas lost 7 games on UNC this year and are 14 behind. Losing in the first round of the Big 12 tourney really cost the Jayhawks 1 or 2 wins there. Uggggg!

However, can the jayhawks pick up 7 games on the Tar Heels this year? It's like we're trading wins every year at the moment. I think the Hawks have a great opportunity to pick up 7 games on the "Holes". We all know they have some great big men at UNC, but their guard and point guard play will dictate what that team does this year. We shall see

Joe Baker 10 years, 5 months ago

jross1972- No, it worked just fine! I agreed with your entire post.

jross1972 (Joe Ross) says...but very analogous to the Calipari situation where you have a coach running the ship aground at two schools with NCAA violations. My question is why the NCAA wouldnt take a similar approach with Calipari as they did with Sampson. Yeah, I know that Calipari was never formally accused of wrongdoing at UMass, but where there's smoke there's fire. Besides, how "coincidental" is it that at two schools he's had issues? He has the dubious distinction of being the only coach to have to vacate 2 Final Four Appearances. You HAVE to read this blog from the University of Maryland:

Right on target about Calasleazy!

Cody Stumma 10 years, 5 months ago

Just for curiosity...

Say that the NCAA committee did take away the National Championship from us (we all know the reason why they tried to). And now they would of taken it away from Memphis. Who would of gotten the title? North Carolina? UCLA? Nobody?

Ryan Mullen 10 years, 5 months ago

Joe Jackson, come on down, you are the next player for the greatest basketball program ever!!!

justanotherfan 10 years, 5 months ago

I personally don't care that the NCAA is vacating these wins.

Memphis won't lose the banners. Schools buy their own banners and those banners are the schools property - they can leave them up or take them down, it's the school's choice.

All I remember is that I saw one of the greatest NCAA title games ever.

As for whether or not Memphis cheated, that's unclear. The player in question is Derrick Rose (obviously). He took his SAT during his senior year in high school. It is alleged that a high school teammate took the test for him so that Rose would be eligible to accept a college scholarship. That means ANY scholarship, not specifically the offer from Memphis. Memphis is vacating the wins because Rose was ineligible to play for them based on not having a qualifying SAT score.

Here is the exact wording of the NCAA's findings: Specifically, on [blacked out] an unknown individual completed [blacked out] SAT, with [blacked out] knowledge, which was used to obtain his admission into the institution and to certify his NCAA eligibility.

Read that as - Specifically, on Date of SAT test an unknown individual completed Derrick Rose's SAT, with Derrick Rose's knowledge, which was used to obtain his admission into the institution and to certify his NCAA eligibility.

The NCAA certified Rose based on that test.

The reason Calipari isn't under fire for this is because that happened in high school, similar to the allegations made against Darrell Arthur. The Dozier situation is similar to that. Any allegations of misconduct tie back to the high school, not Memphis.

The NCAA certification process is flawed. If the NCAA certifies a player, the coach and school should be able to use that player in good faith. What if the NCAA decided that the Morris twins prep school information was not good now, and revoked their certification from last year, meaning that we used ineligible players in all of our games last year? That's a broken system, simple as that.

jayhawkinATL 10 years, 5 months ago

BTW...is John Wall even eligible yet??? Betcha UK is watching that one VERY closely!!!

Lin Rahardja 10 years, 5 months ago

Ouch... from now on, people will associate Memphis as a team whose best record got wiped out because of deliberate cheating. Too bad for Memphis University. "Respect" is what coach Kalipari will loose, and it will impact his recruiting in the future.

cklarock 10 years, 5 months ago

Well, we did our part to make sure that there was one less win to vacate. You're welcome, Memphis!

Kent Wells 10 years, 5 months ago

kushaw:

Awesome links. Its funny how the fans are pulling the 5 year old crap of "look at what he did". That was some fun reading. Agree that most are pissed. Doesn't look like they are over Dana Kirk and is BS.

jrbill67 10 years, 5 months ago

Another reason to remember Chalmer's shot. Who wants to back into a championship against a cheater? Rock Chalk!

Joel Hood 10 years, 5 months ago

justanotherfan,

Didn't Michigan have to take down all their banners associated with the Fab 5 wins they vacated? I'm pretty sure that was part of the NCAA ruling for them - it may not be for Memphis though. But, I really can't imagine keeping up a banner that NO ONE else in the country would recognize as legitimate. This is really sad for Memphis - sleep with the devil and you will pay the price...

Joe Joseph 10 years, 5 months ago

I am sure someone already asked or mentioned this question... BUT, had Kansas lost to Memphis in the title game, would this mean that Kansas would have been declared national champions?

Joe Ross 10 years, 5 months ago

While I know it isnt the case, Id like to think God's own hand guided Chalmers shot just so Calipari wouldnt get the satisfaction of winning as a cheater.

Joe Ross 10 years, 5 months ago

Another thought...it seems the karmas of Calipari and Pitino are inexorably linked.

SoCalAlum 10 years, 5 months ago

If I was Derrick Rose and I actually did take that SAT and actually did qualify, I would be outraged at this whole affair...Is his absence of outrage telling or what?

That said, I feel sorry for the Memphis fans. Not so for UK fans. It's said that lightning doesn't strike twice in the same spot (oops, it just did...double that: for Memphis and for former-Calipari coached programs). Now, we'll see if lightning can strike three times in the same spot.

justanotherfan 10 years, 5 months ago

jayhawkjoel,

That was part of Michigan's agreement to avoid harsher penalties from the NCAA.

Michigan had to agree to remove the banners. The list of NCAA penalties in that case was ridiculous. In addition to vacating the wins, Webber, Maurice Taylor, Robert Traylor and Louis Bullock can't even be associated with the Michigan program until 2013. That means they can't show up for alumni games, camps or anything.

Removal of the banners was part of the non-association thing as well, I think. If you look in a Michigan stats archive, you will see that the stats accumulated by Webber aren't even officially a part of the Michigan record book. Also, the stats accumulated by Maurice Taylor, Robert Traylor and Louis Bullock have been treated similarly. The NCAA can't force them to remove those names, but if you look at a Michigan media guide, they won't mention the Fab Five because the NCAA could hammer them with even more sanctions based on the non-association ruling.

justanotherfan 10 years, 5 months ago

Also, Michigan vacated the wins as a self-imposed penalty. The NCAA did not vacate the wins. It just forced Michigan to disassociate itself from the four players, lose scholarships and miss postseason play.

dustfan 10 years, 5 months ago

Tampa Bay Buccaneers cornerback Aqib Talib has been handed an arrest following a taxi ride by David Duggan. Aqib Talib was arrested 6 am local time today in Pinellas County by Florida Highway Patrol.

Pinellas County official say the football star was released on $300 bail. Aqib Talib, 23, was arrested following an alleged dispute with cab driver David Duggan. Police were called. When they arrived, police asked Talib to exit Duggan’s cab; officials say Agib refused.

A trooper’s report reportedly describes Aqib Talib as “was uncooperative, without offering or doing violence”. Duggan claims to have been hit by Aqib Talib in the ear and neck with a closed fist.

The NFL issued the following email statement to local press: “As in any other such matter, we will look into it.” Aqib Talib was drafted 20th overall by Kansas in 2008. He has yet to comment about the cab incident.

MinnesotaJay 10 years, 5 months ago

Another take on Calipari. What would Memphis' record have been in '07-'08 have been without Rose? In other words, if he and Memphis hadn't cheated (granted, aided and abetted by the NCAA), would his record have been good enough to attract Kentucky?

Nobody likes a cheater, unless he gets away with it. If he does and wins, then they love him.

Perception: Calipari = dirty; Kentucky = Calipari; Kentucky = dirty.

Kentucky, live with it.

100 10 years, 5 months ago

HowMuchRice has it exactly right.

There's no reason to punish Memphis -- that's a joke, although I guess technically they're right the wins need to be taken away considering two players shouldn't have even been in college.

So where should the real punishment go? The guy whose in charge of the basketball program is the one who should be punished, the guy who was trying to boost his resume illegally using at the time 17 year old kids, no matter what school he runs to -- not rewarded with an extra 20 million bucks, free Wes Anderson players and a new home.

DoubleDD 10 years, 5 months ago

This has to seal the deal on Cal. No matter what he does from hear on out this bad karma will follow him for the rest of his coaching days (unless he jumps to the league). Granted there will be no connection from the wrong doing to Cal, but come on 2 Final 4's stripped from his record. That is just on heard of. I have to give him one thing he's slick. He knows excatly how to get around the system without getting caught, and most of all he knows when to jump ship. If I ever need to do something wrong and not get caught I'm calling him for advise. I wonder how much he would charge me for his services. It's kind of funning the way he makes the NCAA look so bad. He's always one step ahead of them. As far as UK getting in trouble with Cal I wouldn't hold my breath KU fans. The wildcats are NCAA darlings just as the Tarholes are. Face it if you ain't playing on the east coast you ain't nothing.

Think about KU has been one of the most successfull programs in college basketball history and we don't get near the love the Tar heels or the Cats gets. Last year we lost five starters and start the season outside the top 20 (I think). This year the Tarholes lose five starters, and their looking at a top six ranking. Nice real Nice. Duke could start the season with 5 blind guys and still start the season ranked in the top 10. Bais I think so. Sorry I'm just venting. Oh and for you UK fans that just happened to stumble onto this web site (yea right) "Beware of the Phog" It was rumored that it was contained in little town called Lawerence, but it seems that it went airborne. If you come in contact with it, it maybe to late. The only cure is to accept it's awsome power, however don't fight it, "I repeat don't fight it". Fighting it is futile. Accept defeat go home and cry about what could've been. Second thought fight it please fight it, it will be more pleasing to us that worship the Phog.

Joe Joseph 10 years, 5 months ago

Does anyone else feel like this cheapens the 2008 championship... at least a little bit?

DoubleDD 10 years, 5 months ago

Stupidmichael I felt cheated win KU won it. All through the tournament Memphis was touted as the best to ever lace em up. KU beats them and were the 5 best team of the decade. Come on.

DoubleDD 10 years, 5 months ago

Not to mention KU didn't even play their best game???

Chris Corley 10 years, 5 months ago

@stupidmichael: Not at all! If anything, it validates the fact that we still beat a team that was getting an edge that we didn't have. I say it enhances the title. A cheap title would be if Memphis had won the game and we "backed into it." Take nothing from tour 2008 Jayhawks. Nothing.

The one thing that worries me is that all this ruckus will resurrect the Arthur grade investigation. I used to think we were totally in the clear on that front because, even if the allegations were proven true, the NCAA Clearing House had cleared Arthur. But Rose was also "cleared." Thoughts on that, guys?

Either way, I think the NCAA needs to do more work on the front end and stop swooping in after the fact.

jayhawkinATL 10 years, 5 months ago

No way, stupidmichael...a team of cheats STILL couldn't beat us!!!!!!! No sense of cheapening felt here.

Chris Corley 10 years, 5 months ago

Okay. From an article dated Feb. 20, 2009 (most recent I could find on the subject):

"And even though it has been determined that Arthur did not pass or complete at least one of his required classes, DISD will not pursue revocation of his high school diploma."

So, I guess if he still has his diploma, he is still eligible. So that's that Right?

Here is the full article:

http://www.khou.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/bshipp/stories/wfaa090220_lj_shipp.361e8659.html

Joel Hood 10 years, 5 months ago

justanotherfan - Thanks for the details on Michigan. I appreciate the history lesson.

100 & HowMuchRice -
I feel bad for Memphis too, but they should be punished as well. They decided to jump into bed with the devil and allowed him to run his program however he saw fit. Unlike Sampson, Cal is too slick to ever let himself be directly associated with the rule breaking (Richard Mihouse Calipari, "I am not a crook! It was my subordinates.")

KU was socked in the gut in 1989 when we weren't allowed to defend the national title, mainly because Larry bought a ticket for Vince Askew in the summer of 1986 so he could see his sick/dying grandma (or some other sob story) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Askew#College_career

And exactly where did Mr. Askew come from??? Memphis St. (now just Memphis.) Vince never played one second for KU. He re-enrolled at Memphis. I wonder where the loudest pissing & moaning came from re the ticket?? Could it have been from ....... MEMPHIS?

Larry and Vince went on their merry way. Larry was never punished. Vince and Memphis were never punished. KU was punished because we allowed Larry to break a rule - it didn't matter that he had left. In today's case, both Memphis and Richard Milhouse Calipari should each have NCAA punishments stuck to them.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

I think people are also forgetting that Rose's brother received $2,280 in free transportation and plane tickets that also have to do with Rose's alleged SAT failings. Are Rose's brother's trips enough to vacate an entire season? I don't think so, but it's so hard to figure out what the NCAA is thinking you might as well not try.

Joel Hood 10 years, 5 months ago

As I understand Darrell’s case, he was a HS junior and was not passing a math class. He switched to another instructor and later passed the course. The first math teacher then claimed, years later, that Darrell did not pass the class, even though he was not privy to the final grade Darrell received after he left his class (someone correct me if I am wrong.)

The claim is that the HS administration fixed his failing grade for that course. Ok, if there was a grade change made (and I’m not saying there was), Darrell did not have the ability to actively be involved in the fraudulent administration of that grade. No one has said Darrell actively colluded in academic fraud. No one has said that Darrell should have his HS diploma taken back. KU had no way of knowing about the administration of that grade. And remember, Darrell has repeatedly stated that the HS grade fixing charges are bogus.

Derrick Rose has never claimed that he is innocent of having someone else take his SATs. Typically, when someone is innocent, they proclaim it over and over. By all accounts, it appears that Rose actively participated in this fraudulent action. It is quite possible that Darrell would have no idea if someone administratively changed a grade. It would be impossible for Derrick Rose to not know someone else took the SAT for him.

Chris Bohling 10 years, 5 months ago

All I can say is thank goodness we won, otherwise we'd have to be living with the dubious distinction of having been granted a championship after not winning it on the court. How do you think Oscar Pereiro feels?

Blake Post 10 years, 5 months ago

tigers always cheat. glad we beat them.

jaybate 10 years, 5 months ago

Thursdays in the Phog:

} Any way you slice this Memphis disciplinary action, Kentucky AD Mitch Barnhartt now appears on track one day to be nominated for the venerated Cliff Hagen Ethics Award for College Athletic Directors. Barnhartt may well, as a result, prove an effective fit with Cal, who increasingly seems destined one day to be nominated for the equally venerated Jerry Tarkanian Ethics Award for College Basketball Coaches. Perhaps the NCAA ought to watch this emerging employer/employee relationship with moderately dark contrails behind it a bit closely for at least a decent interval, eh?

} Finding Cal not responsible and punishing Memphis by having them "vacate" past wins, probably leads to a logical, if unsavory inference among school presidents, coaches, and recruiters around America: encourage intermediaries to cheat like hades on SATs for athletes, so that all the above can win big, and only lose "Ws" a few seasons after all of the above have already cashed in on the success the cheating enabled.

So: college basketball can probably soon expect even more of this sort of rule breaking--the Derek Rosing of SATs.

Are we far from a service called SATz4U.com that specializes in being a clearing house for those taking tests for blue chips? And now that I think about it, why should any of the thousands of incoming freshmen at KU not hire someone to take SATs? If the wrong doing is punished after they graduate and get jobs, well, wouldn't cheating on SATs be as effective for the ordinary student, as for the scholarship athlete? (Note: Just so no one misunderstands, don't cheat on SATs, or anything else. Cheating is for suckers and thieves. Playing the rules fully to one's advantage is the path to lasting power, lasting success and lasting happiness. There is no more powerful player than one using--not breaking--the rules to his/her advantage.)

jaybate 10 years, 5 months ago

Thursdays in the Phog continued...

} I cannot help but wonder once more about the judgments of the Henry family members for a time, given their apparent recurring willingness to consider joining up with Cal at Memphis and then Cal at Kentucky. True, Father Carl reputedly knew Cal from way back to Larry Brown days at KU. And Cal was reputedly friendly with Carl's sons over a period of years. And true, I still give the Henry Family the benefit of the doubt, because of the complexities of child rearing, the complexities of recruiting, and that reputed friendship with Cal.

Raising kids to be their own responsible men and women is, after all, a process with lots of misteps. Making some is part of growing up.

Recruiting is byzantine and an ever changing game and so even though the Henry parents had been through it a long time ago, it is probably more fraught with pitfalls now than ever before.

And loyalty and familiarity and friendship count for virtues most of the time and so should in this case, also.

But Cal left infractions not tied to him at UMass. And Cal was if I recall correctly the Memphis head coach, while the wins of a Final Four season at Memphis were vacated several years ago, again, because of infractions he was not held responsible for. And Cal left Memphis for Kentucky, shortly before Memphis chose to vacate another Final Four season for infractions Cal was again not held responsible for.

It is now increasingly remarkable, is it not, how many infractions Cal has not been held responsible for. He may well hold the record for most infractions on his watch that he has not been held responsible for among Division I basketball coaches. Can anyone else think of a head coach of programs with more infractions on his various watches that he is not held responsible for? Jerry Tarkanian comes to mind. And that is unfortunate company for Cal.

So: I have to ask--what kind of a friend to the Henry's is Cal exactly? What kind of a friend invites his friends' reputedly enormously gifted sons to play for his program, when his programs intermittently have infractions that he is not held responsible for? How could Cal honestly promise the Henry's there would not be more intermittent infractions that he would not be responsible for, while their boys were in Memphis? (Note: CJ apparently was there on a medical red shirt the year the latest infractions Cal was not responsible for occurred.)

Paul Mitten 10 years, 5 months ago

In the end, I find all this really amusing but really, it all comes down to that three pointer.

Thanks, Mario Chalmers.

Otherwise, I'd hate life right now.

jaybate 10 years, 5 months ago

Thursdays in the Phog continued...

And what kind of parental logic drives going on record as respecting their sons' decisions to play for a family friend who coaches at programs that intermittently have infractions that the family friend has more than once not been held responsible for? And for which their eldest son was apparently a medical redshirt on, while the Memphis program was under investigation for things Cal was not responsible for?

Exactly how many times does a family friend have to be the head coach of programs that have to give up seasons full of wins, or see their programs face other disciplinary actions that said coach is not held responsible for, before some one wakes up and says, "Hey, whether or not that coach is a family friend, he can't seem to avoid running programs that are intermittently judged to have committed infractions that he is not responsible for, and if our sons play for him, our sons are perhaps going to get caught up in those infractions he is not held responsible for"?

I know, I know, 20/20 hindsight is easy and often an oversimplification and this is why I always try to give the Henry Family the benefit of the doubt, because they are choosing in real time and we all on this board are commmenting after the fact with vastly less at stake.

Still, it seems likely the Henry family must have known Cal's history, so it seems they cannot plead much ignorance on this issue. They can only say he was their close friend. But as late as this summer, after Cal had left CJ at Memphis, and after the brothers had pledged to KU, there were reputed contemplations of them shifting allegiances back to Cal in Lexington, even as the investigations for things Cal was not responsible for continued in earnest at the school Cal had just left CJ at.

I have to ask: Why would the Henry family want the Henry brothers to play for a guy with a history of running programs that have infractions that he is not responsible for and leaving CJ in the swamp of an investigation Cal was not to be held responsible for? That seems a very odd thing to want for your children. It is also a rather odd thing for the brothers to want for themselves, but youth often wants odd things.

jaybate 10 years, 5 months ago

Thursdays in the Phog continued...

Still, in the big picture, why would the Henry Family even consider Cal, where ever he is coaching, especially when the Henry brothers are both so reputedly good that they could get rides with coaches that lack such histories?

Is the Princeton on Hemmorhoids offense really the catnip of college recruiting? Is it utterly irresistable? So many others resist this offense by going to UNC, UCLA, and so on. The offense just does not seem the decisive weight in the balance of motivation.

Was Carl having played for Cal, when Cal was a graduate assistant two decades or so ago at KU really that strong of a bond? Was having maintained a friendship over the years with someone who was from time to time not responsible for infractions at his programs really such a strong bond? These do just not seem decisive.

Frankly, I am at a loss to explain why the Henry Family felt such a strong attraction to Cal.

We are often told that college basketball is a business now. We are often told that players have to do what is best for themselves and their families. But what kind of business sense did it make for the Henry Family to approve (tacitly or otherwise) of their talented sons' tying their futures (or even considering doing same once, much less a few times) to a coach with such a history?

We are told that business is built on relationships? So: what kind of business relationship is it that leads to Cal jumping ship from Memphis to Kentucky, and leaving CJ high and dry at Memphis, and potentially separating Xavier and CJ (thus ruining their stated dream to play together), and still then the Henry Family at various times reputedly considers joining up with Cal at Kentucky...even in the midst of an NCAA investigation into yet more infractions that Cal was rumored then not to be involved with? That must be one strong business relationship and friendship!

Cal's appeal to the Henry Family seems almost irrational, almost a flirtation with self-destructiveness on their parts. They would hardly be the first persons, or family, to battle the demon of self-destructiveness. Good for them that they prevailed in their inner struggles.

cklarock 10 years, 5 months ago

Memphis is forced to forfeit their victories from 07-08? Does that mean that technically, we beat UCLA for the Championship? Excellent.

jaybate 10 years, 5 months ago

Thursdays in the Phog continued...

To the Henry Family's eventual and eternal credit, they did, after many twists and turns, make the wise choice of KU (and biased as I am, there could have been several other schools chosen that would have been nearly equally wise) and so they should be duly credited and respected for having done so for ever after.

And KU fans should be grateful the Henry's made the choice as well, because they probably will contribute a lot to KU's team this year and perhaps in future years.

But, frankly again, as I have laid it out above, and as things have unfolded most recently, the Henry Family should be exceedingly grateful and at some point publicly thank Coach Self and KU for maintaining cool heads and for saving them from their own apparent unfortunate attraction to Memphis, to Kentucky, and to their friend who is not responsible for so many infractions.

Friends, it seems, can make you do things enemies never could.

Rock chalk! Go Xavier and CJ. Past may be prologue, but the future is never written. Write it yourselves. Show them all what Henry's are really made of, and help this team become one of KU's all time greats. Ad astra per aspera.

Rock chalk again!

rockchalk10jk 10 years, 5 months ago

I looked at one of those links someone put up which led to the Memphis message board. who else is sick of people saying KU cheated?!?!? Arthur's issue was a high school issue. it had nothing to do with kansas. Didn't his teacher change his grade so he could play for their team? tell me if Im wrong because I would like to know. but Im so sick of being lumped in with schools like USC. Calipari has to be up there with on my list of people I absolutely hate. I cant wait till kentucky has there program in an even bigger mess than it already is.

waywardJay 10 years, 5 months ago

Frankly Jaybate. There is one and only one explainable attraction to Memphis over Kansas..... or this instance Kentucky who was not on the board until Cal went there....

AS family friends, Calipari trusted them to offer them something more than Kansas could ever offer. Lack of reponsibility. IE. Short cuts. DeJuan Wagner ( failed NBA Blue chipper ), Derrick Rose ( NBA Player with glaring deficency ), and Marcus Camby ( first rounder who failed and found a niche much later in his career and stuck around )

You see, Cal's plausible deniability can extend forever. As long as you can face yourself in the mirror and say " i'm good enough, I'm Smart enough and People like me." You will be able to convince yourself you are not responsible for your actions. Billy Joel wrecks into hedges 3 times, but then again WRecking into hedges is all about soul.

Problem is, we are winning the war in the NBA. Stern is getting rid of the marbury's and the iversons. Personal responsibility ( despite our current champion.... ) has become in vogue. Pierce's commitment to defense was rewarded, and our Young Hawks are full of promise.

Calipari's days are numbered as far as success goes. I don't see Derrick rose ever developing a jump shot to go with his amazing dribble drive, and the rest of those runner up tigers are gradually heading for the D league. You need someone to ang your hook on, when selling the propaganda, and none of his studs thus far have lasted.

Maybe John Wall, when he becomes eligible. Maybe Demarcus Cousin's when he becomes motivated.

waywardJay 10 years, 5 months ago

Eventually it will come down to recruits seeing .... Yeah, I can get to the league this way, but is it really the best thing for me ????

Mini-millions early and no second contract. Compared to Maxi-millions after earning your way from a mid first round selection.

Chalmers, and Rush are on the right path for sure. Darnell, Darrell, and Julian still have time to make impact.

When's the last time you saw a Memphis tiger not named Rose in the spotlight ?

Scott Smetana 10 years, 5 months ago

Coach Cal said he "didn't do anything wrong." Can't you all lay off? Obviously you can't see that he has the highest level of integrity and honesty in the NCAA.

HAHAHAHHAA. Kentucky fans, you have sold you program's integrity and reputation for a few extra recruits.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 5 months ago

Well, here in Memphis there is an overwhelming air of disdain and dissapointment.

Or to put it another way, it;s like that feeling you have when you wake up after a night of giddy partying and turn over to see the girl you thought looked like Carmen Electra a few hours ago, in truth (and in the daylight), looks more like one of those Geico caveman's sisters.

These Memphis Tiger fans would have voted for Cal as a write-in candidate for President just a few month's ago. Now, not so much to put it mildly.

kualltheway0893 10 years, 5 months ago

Good job john! You probably paid john wall or demarcus cousins to get them to come to uk!

100 10 years, 5 months ago

The thing that is really surprising is the NCAA said they contacted Memphis in November of 2007 about the possibility of SAT fraud. After that conversation, Calipari had his Memphis crew clear him to play.

This is a completely different story we got after the story Calipari gave the AP a few months ago -- that "he didn't know about any of this until May 2008."

That in itself seems like enough for the NCAA to slap Calipari with something (lying about when he first knew of the questionable score, making the NCAA look like liars).

kw11b2p 10 years, 5 months ago

Calipari, as I have previously stated many, many times on this site, is a FREAKING SCUM BAG. I agree with the poster above who reminded us all of the "fool me once" Bushism. Any University that is willing to hire this guy better have a real strong ethics clause in their contract and they better have at least two or three compliance officials on this guy at all times. That being said, Cal should have no less than two scholarships yanked by the NCAA for the next two years. Punishing schools alone accomplishes nothing when the coach (who I believe in this case orchestrated the entire debacle), can simply leave for a more prestigious school and a handsome raise............ridiculous

I really feel sorry for the Memphis fans who, in the dust up, are left holding the bag on the whole deal, feeling light headed and confused as though they were just punched in the mouth. Unfortunately for them, the guy doing the swinging was the very coach that they reveared and placed so much trust in. It appears though that during his tenure, he was (arguably) systematically lining up the chips that could and may potentially destroy this programs future potential and reputation.......only to then slip away like a thief in the night leaving the University screwed and the students, fans, faculty, and pretty much everybody else feeling both betrayed and confused.....Kentucky fans beware.

If this guy doesn't personally pay for this then SCREW the NCAA. The problem is that there doesn't appear to be much accountability for the institution. Who holds their feet to the fire? Does anyone know?.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

100: Where did you see that information about November of 2007? I've been looking for something other than the March/April/and May Letters the NCAA sent to Rose. Is there proof or a link with that November 2007 contact. That would be good to see.

Chad Hallack 10 years, 5 months ago

I've said it from the get-go. There is a reason that none of the big time schools would touch Calipari over the years. They all knew his character.

If that wasn't the case, almost everyone would have been after him to coach over the last 15 years. But they weren't... were they?!!!

Now in Kentucky, he's finally landed a big-time program, but only because of the absolute desparation in Lexington. Even the Governor puked out a BS line about Cal's upstanding "reputation". They will regret it... Unless he wins a title, then UK fans will all turn a blind eye and prove to the rest of us that they are what we thought they were!

All of that will last until they take the title away after the next time he gets caught... Coach Cal already proved (yet again) that he is who we thought he was... Kelvin Sampson's long lost brother!

Chad Hallack 10 years, 5 months ago

BTW... my condolences to the cheated fans of Memphis who are the ones really hurt here. It must be a terrible feeling to know that your coach cheated like that and you STILL couldn't beat the 'Hawks!!!

Doug Merrill 10 years, 5 months ago

Justanotherfan

You state that if the NCAA certifies a player then all is good...and that makes some sense. the problem is that the NCAA notes that Memphis and Calapari were made aware of this problem DURING the season. One of the issues that the NCAA raised is the question as to why Memphis didn't bench the kid while it got sorted out. So, Memphis and the Coach should not be able to take a pass because the NCAA originally certified the kid. The rules are always the same: if you discover a problem, that is when you announce you have found it and you do something about it. If you don't, then expect the worst when someone else finds it and turns you in. Calapari will screw up again, but I think he'll get away with it again. He is smarter than our former buddy at OU.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

I've been blogging all-day on this Memphis and Calipari topic and everyone keeps bringing up the Darrell Arthur saga. You may say to yourself that that is a closed book, but I don't think it is. I've looked for articles all-day and these were the two most updated stories I could find about the DISD. There was obviously an article in October, 2 months after we thought this Arthur Saga was "Cleared", 2008 stating that the case has been "Re-Opened". Here is that article in October 2008.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/tv/stories/wfaa081009_mo_disd.f94d1914.html

Here is the most recent article in Februrary 2009 giving an update on the re-opened case, but it's almost an identical story as the one in October.

http://www.hsgametime.com/dfw/sharedcontent/dws/content/topstories/stories/022009dnspohssoclede.429ebc7.html

As a fan, I'm trying to brush this aside, but I think KU fans should be worried a little especially after this Memphis situation and now everyone wanting "Just Cause" for the Darrell Arthur situation because it's just lingering in the air without any conclusion. I need help here because I'm stumped.

I think LJ world needs to get on this and get a report or something out there to see where this the time table of this case is currently being investigated. If anything remotely comes out negative in the aftermath of this Derrick Rose situation, it could be "Heartbreak City" for KU, KU Basketball, and their fans. That's just my inital thought on this whole matter.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

I think we're all missing the point here. How could Memphis or Calipari discipline a kid for something they didn't know about until May of 2008, a month after the season? It has been stated that Rose received letters in March and April, but did not respond to those letter.

I'm just as confused with all this as everyone else that Is why I'm really seeking answers here and this is why:

If the NCAA just came down on Memphis for "Alleged" test taking with the Derrick Rose, that is almost identical to the "Alleged Re-Opened" Darrell Arthur grade changing case? Am I right here? The NCAA clearinghouse cleared both, yet the NCAA went after Derrick Rose and not yet after Darrell Arthur? The debate all day in defense of Arthur has been that it happened High School, The NCAA cleared him, and the teachers changed the grade unknowingly to Arthur. Great responses, but they sound all too similar to the Rose defense tactics. People are going to bring up the $2,280 in travel expenses for Rose's brother, but that is a minor infraction at best and not worthy of vacating an entire season. That franction coupled with something else would be, but I'm still stuck on the "Alleged" part of Rose's case. How can they come down on penalties based on "Allegations" without proof. I think we KU fans should be a little concerned. Just my two cents.

kw11b2p 10 years, 5 months ago

KUSHAW

I was just talking to my wife and she brought up the same issue......Darrell. While I would like to think that the two situations are different, it does seem that the NCAA cleared both players to play. That being said, If it can then go back and invalidate its own decision, couldn't they do the same thing in the Aurthur case if he proves to have been ineligable? Has this eligibility issue been determined and what would the outcome be if he too is deemed to have been ineligable. Who would be the national champion for that year? Can anyone shed some light. JAYBATE......do you know anything on the subject?

kw11b2p 10 years, 5 months ago

Kushaw

I did find out some other things with respect to Rose. His SAT score has been invalidated by the NCAA after they believed that he had someone else take the test for him. Robert Dozier's score was also invalidated prior to him arriving at Memphis and he was actually rejected from Georgia prior because of said test score. Rose apparently took the test in Detroit which makes absolutely no sense until I learned that Detroit is the home of "World Wide Wes" who apparently is a friend of Calipari's and helped "guide" coveted recruits to Memphis and allegedly now Kentucky. So the issue above and beyond travel violations is the invalidated test scores which serve as an entrance requirement to college. In Darrell's situation, grades were allegedly changed which may or may not affect his college eligability the same way.....I don;t know as I am not an NCAA compliance expert. I will say though that the situations are very different but still troublesome to say the least.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

Kw11b2p: Man, I totally agree with you and your wife. Even though SAT test and the grade change are completely different situations the end product of their situations are eerily simiar.

Even though this Andy Katz article and video was in June it sums up the situation quite nicely.

ttp://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4222106

I'm quite nervous because I constructively can not come up with a defense as of yet in behalf of Arthur since they have re-opened the case.

With all of this said, I think the NCAA is crooked and is wrongly convicting Memphis. However, if Memphis is being punished for these "Allegations" I can't help, but think KU would somehow be right behind them with the "Allegations" of Darrell Arthur and his and KU's situation. I have changed on my stance on this subject as the day has progressed. I've seen the NCAA press conference as well as the Memphis press conference and I am stumped on this one. I think we should be somewhat nervous if this story does not die down.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

Kw11b2p: yeah, I'm with you on all that. I know all about "Worldwide Wes", 3 failed SAT tests in Chicago, 4th test taken in Detroit, and all of that other other crap. Even with all of that drama it is still "Alleged" that somebody "Stood-In" and took that test for him.

With that said, I don't understand the NCAA's angle because their time frames don't add up, especially with what Andy Katz said about Memphis finally being brought to the attention about the "Alleged" events in May of 2008.

kw11b2p 10 years, 5 months ago

Well, if what has been stated previously in the blog, via "100" I believe, then Cal. completely changed is response as to when the University was actually made aware of the Rose issue. If this is true, then it means the University AND coaching staff were aware of certain issues and are both therefore culpable, by not benching the player in question. That supports my primary issue with the situation which is: Why is Cal off scott free? There appears to be conflicting evidence out there that would invalidate the claim that "memphis finally being brought to attention of the events" in May is in not accurate. Is the NCAA giving a pass to certain individuals over this debacle and should KU fans feel legitimized in "holding our breaths" with respect to the Aurthur issue? Especially when it seems that the NCAA is not held to any set of standards and governs itself. It's pretty scary that they can apparently do anything they want without fear of retribution or accountability.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

kw11b2p: What blog, via "100" are you talking about? The only thing I know is that Memphis more so than Calipari did not know anything until May of 2008. If there is something out there that states otherwise, I would like to read it because if there was anything that shows Memphis or Calipari knew anything about Rose's "Canceled" test in Detroit during the season or before then they should be considered "Guilty" as charged.

kw11b2p 10 years, 5 months ago

Give me a minute and make sure I was correct

Chris Corley 10 years, 5 months ago

@kushaw: Chill dude. I posted about this earlier today. Check it out.

Okay. From an article dated Feb. 20, 2009 (most recent I could find on the subject):

"And even though it has been determined that Arthur did not pass or complete at least one of his required classes, DISD will not pursue revocation of his high school diploma."

So, I guess if he still has his diploma, he is still eligible. So that's that. Right?

Here is the full article:

http://www.khou.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/bshipp/stories/wfaa090220_lj_shipp.361e8659.html

Chicago_JHawk 10 years, 5 months ago

10point8- I was about to link to the same thing. I thought I read around this same time that the NCAA announced that they were waiting for the DISD to make their determination before proceeding. Since the DISD determined they wouldn't pursue it, the NCAA considered it closed.

The difference is that Memphis was informed in 2007 about Rose. KU heard nothing about DA until summer 2008. Both are similar situations, and we should be thankful that we weren't bitten in a similar fashion.

kw11b2p 10 years, 5 months ago

With respect to the Calipari culpability issue, "100" above states that the NCAA admitts that it notified the University in November of 2007 about the posssibility of SAT fraud. If this is true, then both Calipari and the University new about the alleged fraud, still played Rose, and Calipari himself lied about the time frame in which he learned about the enquiry. He should therefore be held personally accountable.

The NCAA must obviously know all of this. What is clear is that the NCAA has chosen to give Cal a pass and instead punish the program that he was the clear leader of. I think this incident should put a lot of heat on Calipari, but even more on the NCAA and how it governs itself.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

Chicago_jhawk and 10 point8: Thanks for the article, but it still seems very gray to me. They concluded that Arthur did not pass or complete one of his required classes? What does that mean? Because the DISD didn't pursue any further is the reason Arthur kept his diploma? That's it, that is all I get? LOL! Wow! I wish there was a better defense of Arthur than that.

Chicago_jhawk: Correct me if I'm wrong but where was Memphis informed about Rose in 2007? I've also been looking for that info and haven't been able to find it. The only thing I know of is that Memphis found about the "Allegations" in May of 2008.

Thanks for the info 10 points: Good article, but pretty gray and not much to go off of. Whatever works, right? LOL!

Chris Corley 10 years, 5 months ago

Well, in a court of law, I think it holds up. The man has a diploma. Case closed.

It's not the NCAA's job to determine the qualifications for a diploma. That's up to the school and school board.

Obviously, the DISD is not taking away diplomas because they do not want to punish those players for what happened (and what they may not have even know about) when they were kids. The DISD went after the adults responsible at the time. Not the kids.

Rose is different. It can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Rose knew what was going on. He ACTIVELY broke the rules. It cannot be proven that DA (or KU) actively, knowingly, broke the rules.

We are okay.

Still, I wish is was not an issue.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

10point8: Thanks for the info my man. This has been stumping me all day. With all of your great info and insight I have laid one item to rest, but these are still the questions I have though.

1) It does sounds like Rose is different, but how can you prove Rose Knew what was going on if all the NCAA has to go off of is "Allegations"? Believe me, I really do think Rose cheated or did something wrong, but at this point there is no proof and just he "Allegations" based on what I read and heard during the interviews today during the press conferences.

2) I would like to see the article, link, or whatever that shows Memphis or Calipari were contacted in November of 2007. If that is the case then this is a pretty simple case, but if in fact that May 2008 was the earliest and only time the NCAA contacted Memphis and Calipari about Rose, then I need to side with Memphis in this situation.

Those are the questions I still have.

100 10 years, 5 months ago

Kushaw -- I remember reading that Andy Katz article too. According to a couple different stories today, Memphis was notified about the Rose situation in November 2007. They chose, driven by somebody in charge at Memphis, to clear him anyway.

Apparently Andy Katz, like us, was led astray by the original recitation of events.

It does appear Memphis will challenge this ruling -- 3 year probation is the part they're ticked about. The only solution I could see happening is bringing in Calipari again to talk about what really happened.

If these dates are true, it makes absolutely no sense that Memphis gets 3 years probation & the guy who drove the Memphis machine gets a 20 million dollar payraise, not to mention, his recruiting class which wouldve suffered at Memphis under the probation.

It just doesn't add up.

Chris Corley 10 years, 5 months ago

@kushaw: No worries, dude. And bottom line. I hope that Memphis wins their appeal. I wish the NCAA did their work on the front end as opposed to the back end.

  1. "Allegations" is all they are legally allowed to say since there has been no trial or hearing (I think). But, come on, he had to know not to show up for his SATs.

  2. Can't help you there. That's up to Chicago J.

Larry Smith 10 years, 5 months ago

KUshaw,

Here is an article.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-memphis-vacatedwins&prov=ap&type=lgns

Note a few excerpts

"Memphis argued that the university did not have enough information to substantiate the allegations in November 2007 and cleared him to play. Memphis officials defended their investigation Thursday and said four people interviewed the player, with neither Calipari nor athletic director R.C. Johnson involved."

That seems to me that they at least were aware of the allegations from the NCAA

"The NCAA said the committee pressed Memphis officials during a hearing on the matter about why steps weren’t taken in November 2007 to bench the ineligible player and avoid problems."

"The committee also said the player’s brother received free transportation on the team’s charter plane and hotel lodging that season. Investigators said the total cost would have come to $1,713.85. Such an arrangement is considered an impermissible extra benefit.

“Neither the travel coordinator nor the business director had an explanation as to how the brother was permitted to board without having paid for the two flights,” the NCAA report said."

Hope that helps

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

100: That's what I'm trying to find is the info or something about November of 2007. Everything that I've read today and what I've heard with the press conferences mentions nothing about November 2007 only May 2008. I know it seems like people were lead astray, but I'm just curious about the November 2007 findings.

Also, I think Memphis is more pissed about the Vacated wins and the money they have to return then they are about the 3 years probation. The 3 year probation only effects the women's golf team.

I appreciate the info, but I was just curious where you got the November 2007 stuff. Thanks for your help.

DoubleDD 10 years, 5 months ago

You know I really feel for the Memphis fans on this one. I don't really like Memphis fans, but I feel for them.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

jayhawk86: You the man! That was exactly what I was looking for. So I have completely come full circle in this whole damn event. LOL! I agree with you Jayhawk86, it looks like that Memphis was at the very least somewhat aware of the "Allegations" in November of 2007. Well that changes a lot! Now I don't know what to think. Maybe Memphis isn't as guilty as I once though. For some reason, I'm really interested in all of the facts of this Memphis ruling. Maybe it's because Calipari is involved, or maybe because the NCAA, as crooked as it is, is also involved. I don't know, but it really interests me. Thanks to all of you fellow posters and also to you Mr. Gary Bedore. I've never been sent a message, but I definitely appreciate it. I may have looked an idiot through all of this, but you can't fault me for asking questions. LOL!

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 5 months ago

I really wish that the Rose v Arthur debate could end.

Did Arthur take and pass his SAT? YES

Did Rose take and pass his SAT? NO

The SAT is one determining factor in the process of clearing a potential college student for admission. I believe the minimum scores are designed to cull the weaker students and therefore those with scores above the minimum standards are automatically seperated and given closer scrutiny. Would Arthur's alleged original grade, prior to the alleged grade change, have prevented him from being accepted at KU even though he passed his SAT? If not, we should conclude that this issue is irrelevant and it should never be brought up again.

Interesting commentary on our society and culture that it is so controversial and strenuous for these athletes to get into a college, then play their sport for that college bringing in revenue for the college, not to be required to complete a course of study to completetion/degree and then potentially become a professional at their sport where they can earn multiple times the annual income of the highest paid educator within the college that they left. It's a debate as old as collegiate sports. But with issues such as the current one, the whole scolarship concept for athletes from a college/university becomes a very ironic one, considering the upside. I realize that only a select few student/athletes advance to the professional levels of their sport. However, all of them contribute in some way to their college/universitiy's income stream. Graduation rates have risen at most schools recently for athletes. This has been accomplished through many initiatives. It still, however isn't a priority for those talented few who know their futures are not dependent on a diploma or degree rather their FGA, etc.

Dan Pawlowski 10 years, 5 months ago

stupidmichael, No I don't feel that the 2008 championship is tainted over this. On the contrary, I fell it focuses attention on the school that won it all while doing it right. Winning it all in spite of the fact their opponent had a win at all costs attitude that favored finding the most talented players athletically despite their shortcomings in the classroom. I believe it helps hold Kansas as a shining example of what can be accomplished following the rules.

100 10 years, 5 months ago

As for Arthur, a poster above got it right. Alledgedly a math grade was changed his junior year. Whether it happened or not is hard to determine, but his high school team won state & then he retook the class. It's mainly the coach they were going after.

It's more an issue of a minor 16 year old kid who might not have even known a coach did that to make him eligible. He firmly believes someone in the Texas school board was trying to give his team a bad name (and put this in the papers illegally) so the last I heard the coach was suing them.

Regardless he passed the SAT & finished with a pretty reasonable GPA at KU.

Again, this is not an NCAA issue & it's really not Darrel's issue anymore besides the attempt at smearing his name by the press down there for readership.

This is an issue for a schoolboard & a parent's group.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 5 months ago

dynamite: That is funny stuff! You made me laugh!

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 5 months ago

Let's re-title this as "Most Likely to..." instead of "best coach.."

Calipari is the coach Most Likely To :

Become the only coach to have all wins in a season vacated from three schools.

Never be inducted into the College Basketball Hall of Fame.

Not retire from any coaching job at any level of his own accord.

Let's keep this flowing. There should be an endless stream of suggestions.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 5 months ago

If Calipari arranged for somebody to take Rose's SAT, he probably had to get somebody with the talent to score low enough so it wouldn't be too different than his high school grades overall. Then, the imposter would have to keep the score from being too high, raising questions about that discrepancy.

How does one find a person who appears to be age-appropriate to be taking an SAT test and to be savvy enough to manipulate the answers to reach a believable and acceptable score?

How does the system allow for the lack of positive identification when taking these tests? In this era of privacy being so critical, can the old-fashioned "fake ID" fool the people who are at the testing venues? This needs to be looked at for many reasons beside cheating for athletes.

Ralster is right. There is no comparison between Arthur and Rose. The UofM faithful need to concentrate on winning the next match with KU on Nov. 17 in St. Louis. Should they be victorious then, they will have bragging rights for a multitude of reasons. Losing the Henry's to KU being a big reason they could clebrate a win. But, I'm guessing there are better odds that KU wins that game as well as most all of our others, leaving the Tigers to keep bitching about Darrell Arthur's high school transcript.

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