Sunday, November 25, 2007


Keegan: Arrowhead aside, MU simply better



The Border War 2007

video thumbnail

¢ 6Sports video: Beaten but still in top 5<br /> ¢ 6News video: Fans cheer on Hawks from Lawrence<br /> ¢ 6News video: Crowds brave cold for ESPN's Gameday<br /> ¢ 6News video: Broken dreams<br />

Audio clips

2007 KU-Mizzou Football

— We'll never know which team would have won the 116th rendition of the Border War had it been played in Memorial Stadium, home field of Kansas University, 36-28 loser Saturday night to Missouri at sold-out Arrowhead Stadium.

This much we do know: The more deserving team advanced to the Big 12 title game and kept its national-title hopes alive.

In terms of fairness, the neutrality of the site - the crowd was split pretty much equally between those wearing blue and those dressed in black and gold - offered the truest test of which team was more worthy of competing for a national title.

Then again, in love and Border Wars, who cares about fairness?

Oddsmakers generally say the homefield advantage is worth three points, but the student-driven energy of Memorial Stadium always seems to be worth more than that. Again, who knows?

None of KU's seven opponents in Memorial Stadium came within 30 points of the Jayhawks, but none had the sort of talent Missouri had at the offensive skill positions and on both the offensive and defensive lines.

The score was 34-28 until Reesing was dropped for a safety with 12 seconds remaining, a safety that would not have occurred had the score been 34-34. Scott Webb missed field goals of 33 and 45 yards. Two other scoring opportunities died when Reesing threw a pair of interceptions.

"Playing so many weeks in a row without having an interception, without having a turnover on offense, and then in the biggest game we need to do that the most to have those, it's hard not to say what if, what if that didn't happen?" KU quarterback Todd Reesing said. "It's tough, but I don't think it had anything to do with the crowd or who were playing. That's football. You can't go the whole season without throwing a pick or turning the ball over. I think we went about five or six games. All good things come to an end. We'll bounce back and get ready for the bowl game."

Reesing had gone six-plus games and 213 passes without throwing an interception, and KU had not had a turnover of any sort in four consecutive weeks.

With a victory Saturday night, KU would have moved from No. 2 to No. 1 in the polls and would need just one more victory in the Big 12 title game to play for the national title. If the game had been played in Memorial Stadium, would KU be 12-0?

"That's hindsight," KU coach Mark Mangino said afterward. "I don't get into hypotheticals, and I'm never one to look over my shoulder. The game was played here. That's the agreement we made. We had a chance to win the game just like Missouri did, and they won. I'm not a second-guesser. As I say all the time, I'm focused on the present and mindful of the future."

In the immediate future of the Border War, 2008, Mizzou is robbed of its home game and makes a return trip to Arrowhead. The odds of as much being at stake for that one are about 1 in 116.

The schedule was packed with so much good fortune for KU this season, starting with avoiding Oklahoma, Texas and Texas Tech and playing four nonconference home games. The good fortune of the schedule ran out when the Border War was moved to Arrowhead and KU to be the better team. On this night, it wasn't.


JBurtin 10 years, 5 months ago

Fair weather my @!$

I'm there yelling my butt off for every single defensive down whether it's a 4 win season or an 11 win season.

I just plain don't like Missouri.

KUDB99 10 years, 5 months ago

I think your conclusion is incorrect, Tom....KU would have won this game in Lawrence. The way the Jayhawks played in the second half tells me that we could have beaten the Tigers, and probably should have. Take away the first half jitters, which I don't think would have happened in Lawrence, and the Jayhawks take care of business. Our defense, and the stats may not bear this out directly, played very well against a very talented offense. They held MU to 14 points in the first half, and forced 3 3 and outs, something that no other defense has been able to do all year against MU. But defenses always play better on the road, this was lost by an offense that made mistakes in a hostile environment. An environment that was made possible only by a "neutral site" home game. I understand why they put the game in KC, but I hope Lew and the gang have the courage to acknowledge that moving the game cost KU their title shot, because it did.

bg_duck1 10 years, 5 months ago

Mizzou played a perfect game, we played by far our worst game of the season and we only lost by 8 and for all intents and purposes we could have, maybe should have, won that game. With that being said, I hope lew perkin$ $lept well la$t night. There is no way in hell we would have lost that game in Memorial. And I just have to say that Anthony Collins is the absolute, toughest sob on our team bar none. Beak 'em Hawks

mwallace99 10 years, 5 months ago

Lew Perkins' focus on money hurts us again. The game should have been in Lawrence. Outcome might not have changed, but we would have had some advantage. I know what I am going to do ... support Joe College by buying some tshirts!!!

winnhawk 10 years, 5 months ago

Our team performed this year--way better than any expected. All good things end. It has been a great year and we still go to a grreat bowl. Lets congradulate Missouri and go on.

FlaHawk 10 years, 5 months ago

I think it is ridiculous to "predict" that KU would have won in Memorial Stadium. Mizzou has much more talent than KU. If they played best of 7 KU might win once or twice if lady luck shines on the "Fighting Manginos".

KU lost on the football field to a better team. Lew and the Athletic Department had the e biggest payday EVER for a KU team.

KU is at this level because of $$$, Mangino and a little bit of luck. KU is a small market team and needed to move the game to KC to have a more competitive athletic program.

KU got more from this than MU from the $$$ perspective. They need the money much worse than MU and MU has a much bigger stadium!

KU almost NEVER has more talent than MU in football. KU wins because of the rivalry and emotions over what usually is a better MU team.

This did not happen this or last year. I am very happy with the KU football program. Next a 8-4 season will still be great as a foundation for longer term success has been attained.

troutsee 10 years, 5 months ago

Say what you will about the bucks, but I for one will never ever attend this game at Arrowhead again. We were stuck on 435 for one and half hours and then another 30 to 45 minutes to get from 435 into the parking lot. Hell, we left St. Joe at 2PM! We barely had enough time to eat before kickoff. Then our seats were way back under the overhang on the goal line (on the 40 yard line half way up at Memorial Stadium). We couldn't hear the announcer or the bands but we could sure hear all the MIzzou fans sitting around us, and this our home game (and I am a long time Hawks FB season ticket holder). Also, the Chiefs gave Mizzou the half of the field where the players enter and exit, also an advantage. Furthermore, it appeared to me, even though the stadium was supposedly divided at the 50 yard line, that Mizzou had all the choice lower level and second level seats, the noise creater seats, with most of the Hawks faithful way above. Two gigantic thumbs down on this venue. Never again for me. My brother, also a long time Hawk supporter and season ticket holder, feels the same way. Maybe this will benefit our program in the long run. I will continue to show up at Memorial stadium. But, NEVER, EVER again at that hell hole called Arrowhead.

Roger Tobias 10 years, 5 months ago

If this were truly a home game, then the allotment of tickets should have reflected it; that is, about 95% of 80,000 seats should have been Jayhawk fans. If we really need another $1 million for the athletic department, why don't we collect $250,000 from the merchants on Massachusetts and pay Perkins $750,000 less. Lastly, a night game in late November is ridiculous for college ball outdoors. Let the millionaire pros do it on Sunday night or Monday night, or play their 4 degree day games in January (nice Len Elliott imitation, wasn't it?). If a Border War is a must, play it the same week OU plays Texas.

Roger Tobias 10 years, 5 months ago

"Lets congradulate Missouri and go on."

No, never. When it takes the dirt they fling (144 yards penalties they rang up, more not flagged) to win on their home field (nothing east of the state line will ever be neutral), they don't deserve our support.

troutsee 10 years, 5 months ago

I can congratulate MU. They earned the win. The venue stinks. Period.

Derek King 10 years, 5 months ago

Actually, I believe this game would have been the week BEFORE OU-Texas (when we had a bye week) if it hadn't been moved to Arrowhead. Am I wrong on that?

Joe Ross 10 years, 5 months ago

With regard to the game: OFFENSIVELY- Too conservative from the beginning. The middle of the field was open all night. You have to take chances (statue of liberty play, flea flickers, reverses, fumblerooskie, etc) and open things up in big game situations. Missouri's D was not impenetrable as we showed in the second half. DEFENSIVELY- Why the hell were our corners lining up 10 yards off the ball and giving up quick outs to the flats? Seems like Gary Pinkel said, "Ok, we're gonna do this until KU commits to stopping us before we go to plan B". They never had to: KU never made the adjustments. SPECIAL TEAMS- Not much else we could have done when they kicked it away from Herford. But did anyone besides me realize that we would have been TIED in the game had we made our two field goals?

OVERALL- Wrong game plan. Too timid. Didnt go in with a big enough chip on our shoulders into a game we could have won if we had the right attitude, MUs offense notwithstanding.

POST GAME ATTITUDE: All true fans will continue to hate Mizzou. I see some here congratulating MU. Am I on the wrong message board or something? WHAT?!?!? Jesus, God in heaven!

Machawk 10 years, 5 months ago

I am glad that I boycotted the game at Arrowhead as it was not a home field advantage in any stretch of the imagination. Listening to the game on TV, it sounded more like a MU home game. I am convinced we would have won this game in Lawrence where the team would have been energized by the home crowd's noise and less nervous. Potentially scoring first and at least answering MU touchdowns would have helped make this game take on a much different flavor. We would have taken in less money, but the national exposure would have been the same and would have shown off the KU campus as well.

Losing to MU is always unpleasant, but they do have a great team. As poorly as we started the game I think we showed we can score points and score them quickly. In fact, it's not too far-fetched to think we may have beaten them had we recovered the on-side kick. We will never know. Thanks for a great season and let's support the Hawks in the next game where ever it is played.

Mike Ardis 10 years, 5 months ago

I can't believe KU gave up home field advantage for their biggest game of the year! Either Lew Perkins doesn't understand where he works or doesn't care. KU football isn't OU or Texas and we need all the advantages we can get while building this program. Arrowhead is a dump, the field was bad, and I went from good KU seats to Arrowhead seats where I spent most of the time watching the monitor.

Joe Ross 10 years, 5 months ago

with respect...

Arrowhead is the venue we would have wanted had we won this game.

The problem was not Arrowhead. The problem was the gameplan. We didnt ditch the conservatism soon enough. I am not down on mangino either, this is a masterful job of coaching he's done this season. This is a learning experience for him as well, though, BELIEVE me. He's never been here before as a head coach. He'll get it right next time.

Dan Harris 10 years, 5 months ago

Will everybody stop bitching and whining about Lew moving the game to Arrowhead! Everybody wants a winning football and basketball program and that takes $$$$$$$$$ This is one of the few ways Lew can do that. Great season Hawks, I have enjoyed the ride!

troutsee 10 years, 5 months ago

Sorry, 1972, I disagree. Arrowhead is a dump. Furthermore, access is crappy. We gave up home field advantage. I hope it was worth the money. I will not ever go to another KU-MU game at Arrowhead, win or lose.

rtstl 10 years, 5 months ago

KUDAD. What a poor sport....

Both schools agreed to this game to get us into the national spotlight. This year Kansas DID get more of a ticket allotment than Mizzou and next year the favor will be returned. As far as a "home game" goes I would say there are more KU alums and fans in KC than MU fans. Plus Lawrence is alot closer to KC than Columbia.

Now lets address dirt throwing.... This was probably the worst officiating I have EVER seen. The penaltys were ridiculously one sided and KU fans are on drugs if they think they got the short end of the stick! The 1st quarter Talib punch that went uncalled, the Shulak roughing the passer that was clearly inside the 1 step rule, the shoving that led to a MU player throwing the ball at a KU player was a joke, the pass interference on Maclin that went unnoticed, the facemask on Temple that went uncalled, the roughing the kicker on the MU punter that went uncalled... are you guys watching the same game?

Last nights game was the greatest thing that could have happened for BOTH schools. Millions of people were exposed to something they never knew existed, $$$ was made for both universities, recruits were watching, coaches were impressed, bowl game officials took notice, sponsers were happy, for one night Kansas vs. Missouri was the biggest deal in college football and you people are complaining about trivial things!

I find it classless that you cant be gracious and proud of your football team. They worked hard and came up short. It has nothing to do with the weather, the fans, the traffic, the stadium, the side of the field MU was on, the announcers, etc... Both teams were on the same field under the same circumstances and KU lost.

I for one hope this tradition continues for a very, very long time!

rtstl 10 years, 5 months ago

And just so you all know...

KU got to put this game on their season ticket plan and Mizzou could not. KU sold 40,000 tickets counting the students for this game, Mizzou sold 15,000... the remaining 25,000 went to cheifs season ticket holders.

They are the jerks you put them on ebay...

get over this... its not worth arguing about!

JBurtin 10 years, 5 months ago

Had to repost this here, it says all I need it to for now.

Spam the living crap out of Lew Perkins to never, ever, ever take another KU home game to Arrowhead. I was willing to give it a chance because I know KU needs the money to be able to keep up with other athletic programs around the country. However, I have now been to two KU "home games" in Arrowhead and the atmosphere has been terrible at both of them.

The problem is that you don't know for sure whether or not you can sell a majority of the tickets to a game like that. With OU and Texas each team knows that their fans will buy up half of the stadium early in the year before anybody knows whether either team will be good. KU and Missou simply do not have that kind of tradition of fan support.

This year it looks like MU fans jumped on their bandwagon earlier than KU fans. The Chief's season ticket holders are probably split about 50/50 between Missou and Kansas, but the Chief's season ticket holders that are also Missou fans must have bought their tickets earlier. I would say 3/4 of those 20,000 tickets went to Missou fans. Then KU sold 40,000 tickets through their ticket office, but there's no guarantee for us that bandwagon Missou fans wouldn't come here and buy tickets. Apparently many of them did because I was on the lower level with supposedly "good" tickets in the KU half of the field, and I still had several tiger fans in the area to put up with. I'm friggin' William's fund and I end up in a G#@amn endzone with Missouri fans around me.

KU did not have anywhere near enough control over the atmosphere and couldn't get any of their chants started. The result was a very muddled, unpleasant game experience. Even if KU had won, I still didn't enjoy being there and putting up with those a-holes.

We tried it

It failed misserably

KU probably lost the game because of it

I've seen enough. Keep the games in Memorial from now on.

rtstl 10 years, 5 months ago

you guys are pathetic...

you have lost sight of the fact that the MU fans in YOUR section were put there because YOUR cruddy fans sold their tickets for the $$$.

Its not any else fault but your own.

KU still got more tix than MU so quit crying and accept the loss...

it was a great season...

srhendricks 10 years, 5 months ago

Last nights game just puts everyone and the football team back to reality. KU is not a football school. Time for basketball baby! Let's torched Arizona tonight! Rock Chalk.

seattlehawk_78 10 years, 5 months ago

I beg to differ srhendricks. 11-1 is hard to argue against.

jayhwkroks 10 years, 5 months ago

Can anyone tell me what happened to Jake Sharp. I read the stats and he had only 1 carry. We needed his quickness at certain times. Wasn't for sure if he was hurt or something. Lets focus on the bowl game. Go Hawks!!!!!!!!!!

KUDB99 10 years, 5 months ago


what a moron, the reason our season ticket holders had access to arrowhead is because this was our HOME GAME, not Missouri's.

My point was originally, I don't think we come out so tight in memorial stadium. Now it's tough to say whether MU would win or not, and it's irrelavant to say that they would've beaten KU 8 out of 10 times, we only had to beat them once, and we stood the best chance in Lawrence.

I'm proud of our guys, and the gutsy way they played. They had their chances to win, even with the worst first half they played all year. The future is bright for this team. Once KU gets their new facilities, the Fighting Mangino's will be tougher than ever.

justanotherfan 10 years, 5 months ago

KU got beaten last night by a better team with a better gameplan. For the first two and a half quarters KU got flat out played. Once we had spotted them a three touchdown lead we mounted a comeback, but the fact remains that for the early part of the game, MU was better than us.

Things that killed us last night:

1) Turnovers - we hadn't turned the ball over all year on the way to our perfect start. Early turnovers put us behind the 8 ball.

2) Poor tackling - More than once I saw MU receivers catch the ball in space, make their first guy miss and then pick up 8-10 more yards. That's unacceptable.

3) Penalties - Least penalized team going in. Maybe more penalties last night than all season.

The game being at Arrowhead had nothing to do with those things. Seemingly, our guys ran into a team with equal talent and tightened up, trying not to make a mistake that would lose the game. So our guys were ultra tight, playing it safe rather than trying to make plays. A lot of the missed tackles came because our DB's were 7-10 yards away on the catch and couldn't come up quick enough to make the tackle immediately (something that we never adjusted out of).

Several personnel decisions also left me baffled.

Collins was clearly hurting at tackle. The MU DE just ran by him a couple of times last night. He wasn't nearly as mobile as I had seen him earlier in the year. Yet he stayed in - gutsy on his part, but the coaches had to see him struggling out there and wonder if he could make his blocks with MU's speed on the outside.

Sharp was in only a couple plays early, then vanished. We never tried to change up the pace on the Tigers with a quicker back when B-Mac was struggling to get upfield in the first half. I thought that was the purpose of having them both - thunder and lightning.

It's been a great year overall. Now we just sit back, get healthy and wait for the bowl invite.

Mike Ardis 10 years, 5 months ago

MU may be the better team but LSU is probably better than Arkansas. Playing at Arrowhead had an impact. If my memory is correct, just look at the Jayhawks first half problems and what end of the field they occurred.

Field goal hits upright Field goal wide left Interception at goal line Interception near end zone

All were in the teeth of the Missouri fan section which wouldn't have been very large in Lawrence.

Perhaps the only reason the nation wouldn't have seen the game in Lawrence is if was earlier in the season. KU should work to keep the game in Lawrence and get it at the end of the year like the OSU-OU, Texas-A&M and Nebraska-Colorado

KUDB99 10 years, 5 months ago

KU only had 2 penalties last night....try again

ecoplanner 10 years, 5 months ago

Not sure I understand so many people's point - if you really think KU might have won the game if it was at home, this same logic would suggest that had this been an MU home game, the score would have been more lopsided...

....if you wanted to see a "true" test of two teams skills against each other, having it located on "neutral" turf where fans from both schools can easily attend (as opposed to many bowl games - held in the south and southern school fans have an advantage in attending) is "the" way to do it. Next year, when its MU's turn to have it be a home game and Chase Daniels is a senior, I presume a number of people pitching a fit here will be happy the game isn't in Columbia.

Irrespective of Arrowhead, fan numbers etc, anyone who has played the game knows that - location has only minimal impact - the best team may not win the game but they generally do

I have a family member that went to MU and family member that went to KU (as well as a member that went to Illinois) - you root for your team and then let the chips fall where they may. I know the MU and KU members of my family will be pulling for each other's team in bowl games....after all, should KU get a shot at Tennessee for example, the MU grad will surely be rooting for KU.... all the hated rivalry stuff is really just a construct of those who let jealousy and negativity rule them...

yeah, the teams may fight like crazy but its like families - you tend to fight your brother harder that anyone else.

OmahaKUAlum 10 years, 5 months ago

I'm one of the biggest KU fans you will ever find, but come on people. The game was at Arrowhead and there's nothing we can do about it! Quit complaining! I was at the game, and it seemed like the fans were split 50/50, but I hate to admit that the MU fans were much louder than us....then again, they had more to cheer about until halfway through the 3rd quarter. I agree with another comment on here: if you are truly a national title contender and a great team, you need to beat another great team on a neutral field. Mizzou has more talent than us (that was clear last night, especially their offense), but I still think we are overall a better team. We just made too many mistakes last night. The chips will fall where they may (and like many others, I cannot bring myself to cheer for Mizzou) and we should still play in a January bowl game. We did more than anyone would have ever expected....a team picked to finish 4th in the Big XII North, and we win 11 games, and hopefully will end up winning 12. I'm as disappointed as anyone by the game last night, but I'm proud of our season! Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!

rtstl 10 years, 5 months ago


If you would have read my earlier post you would know that I fully understand the entire "home game" issue. I stated that KU gave up the 2007 game and Mizzou gave up the 2008 game. Thats why KU had it on the season ticket plan this year and Mizzou gets it next year.

I just think crying about the fans, the weather, the traffic, the venue, and the cheering is a really pathetic excuse from the school that played 4 non-conference home games and managed to avoid OU, Texas, and Texas Tech on their schedule this year. Excuse me for not being more sympathetic to the plight of the poor neglected KU fans at Arrowhead....

The BIGXII wanted to play this game, Mizzou wanted to play this game, KU wanted to play this game, and lastly the fans of both universities wanted to play this game. It was a neutral site agreed on by both schools and university attorneys negotiated a fair system of managing tickets and revenue for both programs.

Take a look at the Florida - Georgia game, The Auburn - Alabama game, The Texas - OU game, All of those are neutral environment games on a national stage. They generate millions of dollars for the universities and have a massive impact on recruiting and exposure. Dont you think Kansas and Mizzou is deserving of a little more than Memorial Stadium? With its gorgeous aluminum bleachers and parking lot behind the end zone that dump isnt the place to play this game and for that fact neither is Mizzou. Have a little vision! Get over the fact that you lost and think about the future of this rivalry!

For you guys to cry and whine about this shows a tremendous amount of disrespect, stupidity, and classlessness.

Im just glad to see you guys know how to win and lose with some class KUDUB99!

All year long we heard about how you were going to kick our azz at Arrowhead!

So much for that...

srhendricks 10 years, 5 months ago

what happened last night is that KU didn't execute like they needed and Missouri did. Thats all. Therefore i hate to say it but the better team won. The BCS national championship game isn't played in Memorial Stadium. It is played on a neutral field like, ummm Arrowhead was. Kansas just didn't prove themselves. Hopefully Bill Self will have the bball team ready to prove themselves in March.

Kyle Crenshaw 10 years, 5 months ago

games over, nothing we can do about it now except get ready for the bowl game. its been an amazing season and far exceeds my expectations of an 8-9 win season this year, so im still excited about the season we've had (even though we lost to misery). i was also wondering why jake sharp didnt play. guy has speed and can really be a game changer! despite the loss i had a great time at the game last night, would have been nice to see a little bit more excitement from the Hawk fans though, i noticed there was no noise at all while we were on defense. the fans are what makes it a homefield advantage so if your gonna complain about it not being at memorial, get off your butt and yell! (i do believe we would have won at memorial, but id rather play missouri at arrowhead next year instead of at columbia). anyone else think traffic was horrible??? 2 hours trying to get out of the parking lot and about an hour and a half trying to get in before the game! ridiculous!!! then after the game traffic cops forced EVERYONE to go right on Blue Ridge Cutoff (when i needed to go right) forcing someone who knows nothing about kc to drive through kc and try to find my way out. didnt get home till 1:30 in the morning! so thank you so much kc police! GO HAWKS! and even though we hate missouri we need them to beat ou to better our chances at a bcs game. WERE STILL #5!!!

JBurtin 10 years, 5 months ago

To be clear, I'm not all that worried about this particular loss. I stayed in the stands until the clock rolled to zero and yelled my arse off every single defensive down the entire game. I'm proud to say that late in the game a couple of Missou fans sitting in front of me were looking back in Awe and disgust that I even when the chips were down, my fiance and I simply wouldn't shut up. There's nothing more gratifying to me than the feeling that somebody knows that they are sitting next to two unflappably optimistic and superior fans that will never stop cheering on thier team. What's more is that that kind of optimism has a tendency to spread to those around you.

I hate to say it but MU simply played the better game on a relatively neutral site and deserved to win. (oops i think I just puked a little)

What worries me is that this game was a financial success and the AD might be tempted to repeat this travesty for financial gain. The atmosphere didn't feel like a college game and it certainly didn't feel like a KU home game. Arrowhead is has a terrible atmosphere for getting chants started and the way they split up the tickets made the situation even worse. The entire game I felt like I had to watch my back because I simply don't trust those people. They were relatively non-violent because their team was winning, but the atmosphere could have been even uglier if they were losing. As a fan that lives to see the games live it was a Lose/Lose situation.

JBurtin 10 years, 5 months ago

My point is that if you want to make more money, you simply have to win as many games as possible. Memorial may not be as large as some of the other venues in the Big Twelve, but if your team is winning then fans will be willing to pay more per ticket to get in. Furthermore, it will generate enough money that an expansion project would be possible in due course. Perhaps lowering the field and getting rid of the track and/or adding an upper deck on the student section side.

I feel that the completely KU dominated atmosphere at Memorial could have made the difference between two evenly matched teams. Sure it is more fair to have the game played on a neutral site every year, but since when is college football about fairness. Look at any other team in the top ten right now and you will find at least one tough game on their schedule that they won at home that they very well might have lost if it had been on the road.

National championships aren't always won by the best team in the nation, it usually takes a bit of luck and some friendly scheduling as well. Say what you want about KU's weak schedule but the fact remains that they played every single one of their toughest games away from the friendly confines of Memorial. Giving up one more tough game to a neutral site turned out to be a big mistake.

Let's let Lew know that his financial venture could very well have just cost us a chance to go to the Big Twelve Championship. Winning the North would have gained us even more positive national exposure for yet another week and would have benefited the program far more than the money earned.

I don't personally think that KU would have pulled it out against OU (with Bradford healthy they look like the best team in the nation), but losing to perinial power and non-rival OU and still getting an at-large BCS berth would have felt much better than losing now and having your fate decided by others.

I'd simply rather have to play in Columbia every other year for the opportunity to have them have to play here.

troutsee 10 years, 5 months ago

JBurtin, as usual I agree with you. I am not complaining because we lost. Missouri made the key plays a crucial times and we didn't. It's as simple as that. I am complaining because Arrowhead stadium sucks. My seats were horrible. Our fans were split up. This did not feel like a college game. Even if we had won, I would have felt the same way. The long time KU football faithful were not rewarded with good seating and the access to the stadium was horrible. As much as I love KU football, I will continue to follow them and attend all games at Memorial and all bowl games, but never, ever again at Arrowhead. What a dump!

actorman 10 years, 5 months ago

"Then our seats were way back under the overhang on the goal line (on the 40 yard line half way up at Memorial Stadium)."

Huh????? Were your seats at the goal line or the 40-yard-line? What you said makes no sense.

Jross, good analysis for the most part and I agree with what you say about the way-too-conservative play-calling on both ends, but your point about special teams is ridiculous. I'm so tired of people making that type of comment ("if this had happened, then the score would have been that"). Everything changes if the circumstances are different. If Mizzou had a smaller lead they would have played defense differently and maybe it would have taken KU longer to score. And if we made those field goals we would have continued to kick off to Maclin (which we mystifyingly did every time, rather than trying something different like pooching it), and he could easily have broken one for a TD or at least given Mizzou much better field position than they got from the missed field goals. There are myriad things that would have been different if those field goals had been made. So it makes no sense to say the game would have been tied if Webb had not missed. There's just no way to know what would have happened.

Jburtin, you make a lot of good points, but for God sake, please learn how to spell Mizzou. I mean it's right on their uniforms, after all. (It's not at all about giving them respect, I just hate seeing something spelled wrong over and over.)

Justanotherfan, you're right on the mark about the poor tackling and personnel decisions. (As another example, why didn't we try shaking things up a little by bringing in Meier for a few plays at QB? Reesing was clearly not 100%, and it would have been nice to have a bigger threat for the QB to run.) But you're not correct when you say, "... we hadn't turned the ball over all year on the way to our perfect start." Reesing threw three interceptions (and I think we also lost a fumble) against KSUck and we still managed to win. And I find it extremely bizarre that you would say, "Maybe more penalties last night than all season." We had TWO penalties!!!!! It's especially strange that you would say that considering that LAST WEEK we had the most penalties we'd had all season.

actorman 10 years, 5 months ago

Finally, as for ecoplanner's comment that ".... all the hated rivalry stuff is really just a construct of those who let jealousy and negativity rule them ...," you must be completely blinded by your family members, who no doubt handle themselves with more class than most Mizzou fans.

The fact is that the rivalry is NOT just a construct. There are many, MANY reasons to hate Mizzou and their fans. There are so many classless things about that place, from all the stories of the highway patrol harassing KU fans to the beyond classless way that so many fans still celebrate terrorism and slavery, to the numerous fans who throw things at KU fans, the band, etc. There's a reason that Mizzou is hated by everyone in the Big XII, not just KU.

rtstl 10 years, 5 months ago

actorman.... your an idiot.

Kansas fans have quite a reputation too. Do you really think that you guys are this shining beacon of honesty, grace, and sportsmanship?

You and your school have done nothing but complain, whine, accuse, blame, and avoid the truth (MU was better) since the final whistle.

Real classy...

Wah, wah, wah.... the traffic... wah, wah, wah.... we couldnt get a cheer started... wah, wah, wah.... we were on the wrong side of the field... wah, wah, wah... we gave up our home game... wah, wah, wah... Mizzou fans throw stuff at us... wah, wah, wah... my seats were too high up... wah, wah, wah.... its too cold... wah, wah, wah!

Its a football game, its supposed to be cold, the fans are supposed to be intense, the traffic is supposed to suk, your seat should be wet and 2 miles from the field, your beer should be flat and the guy right behind you should yell in your ear the entire game... but.... YOUR AT THE GAME! THATS THE IMPORTANT THING!

You guys are the classless, whining babies who cant accept a loss with dignity and grace...

Get off the MU fans back! I know your jealous but come on!

seattlehawk_78 10 years, 5 months ago


For you to be posting on this site shows a tremendous amount of disrespect, stupidity, and classlessness. You made your point, show the class your parents failed to teach you and leave.

Chicago_JHawk 10 years, 5 months ago

I'm embarrassed to be Kansas fan reading these whiny, cry-baby comments. Grow up.

Bitching about the traffic around Arrowhead? Plan ahead and leave earlier! The venue and the fan ratio had nothing to do with Reesing's two picks or the two missed FGs.

We got beat by a better team. We had a great season, finished 11-1, and have a great chance to get to a BCS bowl, Cotton at worst.

rtstl 10 years, 5 months ago


it shows classlessness, disrespect, and stupidity for you to suggest that I am not allowed to post an opinion on a KU website. This article is about the game, no? Am I out of line for visiting this hallowed Jayhawk ground?

I am on here defending the integrity of the game from you and your "fans". Can you not show some respect for your team and the game they played. You leave it to the Mizzou fans to come on here and give you a lesson in how to behave after a hard fought loss.

I expected to see comments supporting the intensity of the rivalry, the well played game, the sportsmanship, and the bright future for both schools. Instead I find a bunch of whiners like yourself that cant handle losing to a better football team.

Read Chicago_JHawks comment... thats the attitude you should have today. Not contempt for a Mizzou fan that has said nothing but positive things about your football team. I have no problem with the Jayhawks... its their spoiled brat supporters that need a reality check!

Read my earlier posts and you might see the point I am arguing...

If you cant see the greater good in this game that is not Mizzous fault. Our team showed up on the same field, under the same circumstances... Our fans drove 3 hours farther, stayed in hotels when you went home, paid more for tickets on ebay because you got them at the season ticket price, and we arent complaining...

I know it stings but show some appreciation for your team... it was a great game and hopefully there will be many more of these to come.

I, for one am sick of Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas getting all the press in the BIGXII....

Michael Foulston 10 years, 5 months ago

I'm with Chicago_JHawk on this one. The KU fans on here whining and bitching about everything that wasn't the game on the field are only spouting useless bitterness over the loss.

We can never know if the 'Hawks would have won this game at Memorial. We can never know what would have turned out different had the illegal block been called on the opening kickoff, or had Talib been flagged for 15 yards instead of the retaliation being the penalized infraction.

The fact is, KU lost this game on the field, and you can argue game-planning, coaching, failure to make adjustments or anything you want to as a reason why. I personally think those things came into play. I also think Reesing should have taken the gloves off, cold or not.

Incredibly poor end-game coaching by the Mizzou staff led to the Jayhawks near-comeback. Pinkel went Schottenheimer-level conservative the last few series for Mizzou, and nearly cost his team a shot at the NC, imho.

The KU players left it all out on the field, and so did Mizzou. The better team won that game, no ifs ands or buts about it. Don't get me wrong, I loathe the Tigers almost as much as Coach Fam, but they did what they needed to do to win the game, and the 'Hawks didn't.

I'll be rooting for MU to beat OU in the B12 Championship game, only because it improves KU's BCS bowl chances. Other than that, they can rot, for all I care.

Show some class, Jayhawk fans. Your team is 11-1 and headed for a bowl game, and there's no reason to think they can't be at the top of the B12 north next year, playing the hated Tigers at Arrowhead for similar stakes. The 'Hawks can beat UT and TT and OU will be very tough next year, but have faith.

Coach Mangino is building a program here, not a one-year wonder. Keep rooting for our beloved Jayhawks and quit worrying about everyone else and whining about things over which we have no control. It's a great thing to be 11-1.

Michael Class of '93

seattlehawk_78 10 years, 5 months ago


I may have taken some liberties on the stupidity allegation on my first comment but you just confirmed my suspicions on your last post. Get over yourself, no one is remotely suggesting or denying your right to post here. It is an issue of class. Or in your case the lack thereof. If the situation were reveresed I would no sooner post your exact commments on a Tiger fan site than barge into your home and act like I own the place.

While your add it, spare me your mock concern over KU and the Big 12. Your statements are entirely self serving.

Again, you made your points now do your parents proud for a change and leave.

JBurtin 10 years, 5 months ago

rtstl proves my point perfectly. I just don't want to be around him.

Let them have their home game

Let us have ours

Then nobody has to deal with a half a stadium full of retards like him.

speckleddog 10 years, 5 months ago

Lew Perkin$ kicked loyal KU loving fans out of Allen Field House in favor of donors who only buy tickets because they can. Then he sells out the football fans and local businesses for a couple million dollars. This game should have been played in Lawrence, period. The Arrowhead deal has, in effect, given Mizzou three home games in a row. Never again. Tradition and loyalty to your school and community should be important.

rtstl 10 years, 5 months ago

93Jayhawk... you summed it up perfectly.

The KU fans like seattlehawk and JBurtin need a reality check.

Fair weather fans are bad for everyone involved.

Glad to hear you'll be rooting for Mizzou, Ill definitely be pulling for the 'Hawks in the Fiesta bowl.

OmahaKUAlum 10 years, 5 months ago

srhendricks is an idiot. I have been a huge KU fan in general ever since I first set foot on campus as a high schooler, and I have always rooted for ALL KU teams. When I was at KU, I attended every home football game as well as the basketball games. I would have killed to have a great football team like this to support. This year, I hadn't even paid any attention to the basketball team and stories because I've been so wrapped up in the success of the football team! But being an alumnus and a fan, I have and always will support the football team and all sports teams. Nothing would make me happier than KU being known as a basketball AND football school! Congrats Jayhawks on a great season and good luck in the bowl game, and I'm already looking forward to next year!

jerryfelis 10 years, 5 months ago

The Jayhawks lost because their "masterminds" let them down. I'm referring to Mangino, Warriner and Young.

MU easily thwarted Warriner's sideline play-calling scheme by showing one defensive set, waiting for the play to be sent in, then shifting into another set. Reesing either didn't have the authority or wasn't smart enough to adapt.

Reesing looked like Bambi -- that deer in the headlights look -- at times, especially on the safety at the end of the game. Just throw the ball away, stupid. He's such a pawn in Warriner's scheme, he either didn't realize the blitz was coming or didn't know what do about it.

Scott Webb? I knew he would be a weak point for the Jayhawks. He has missed field goals and extra points all season long.

Bill Young's defense? They had many opportunities to come after Chase Daniel. Instead, they stood motionless or ran off into some containment position. Hint to Bill Young: If Chase Daniel gets the stand back there and throw the ball unhindered, Missouri wins the game.

You don't have to be a mastermind to figure that out.

beakemhawks 10 years, 5 months ago

I would rather go to hell than go to Missouri.

Any "KU" fan that cheers for Missouri against OU has NO IDEA and should have read the classless MU signs at College Gameday to get a clue about the trash that lives in Missouri. The last thing they need is a trip to the NC. If OU wins we will still be in a BCS bowl while Misery fans are at home in their trailers muttering, "it's not fair, we beat them" over and over again while their kids open gifts from their local Paige-Mart.

Joe Ross 10 years, 5 months ago

You know if I were a Mizzou fan visiting these boards Id be laughing my ass off. They provided the injury. You people here are giving the insult. Listen, I understand the despair. We lost our shot at a Big XII championship, at the national championship, and all of this at the hands of Mizzou.

People keep it in focus, though.

Not a single poster here can say that KU did not exceed their expectations this season in football. There is much balance lost when minds are not realistic. KU has had a memorable season, and the lesson Ive learned (speaking for myself) is to NOT be a bandwagon fan of football. This team has inspired everyone. I never knew rooting for college football could be so fun. Im a Mangino fan for life. Diss on me for not recognizing it earlier and I wouldnt have a leg to stand on.

Lets just congratulate our boys in blue, and not turn on each other. Remember: Mizzou is the enemy.

rtstl 10 years, 5 months ago

You are fairweather... the minute you dont get what you want you turn on everyone else. I read your comments. Your a cry baby... plain and simple...

Now your making trailer jokes and whining about our mean little signs on Gameday... are you serious?

Im sure there were no offensive KU signs at the game! Im sure all the KU fans quietly sipped wine and ate cheese while discussing Darwins theorys in their luxury suites before driving their Bentleys back to the thriving cultural centers of our country like Topeka and Wichita!

Everything you say and think is so one-sided. Thats why your ignorant and incapable of debating the issue on this message board.

Listen to yourselves! Its some of the funniest s*it I have ever heard! After every post there is a bombardment of excuses from a new batch of KU fans... if you want me to shut up stop providing such great material!

wah, wah, wah....

cxb19 10 years, 5 months ago

rtstl, you are my new HERO! i absolutely loved the "wah, wah, wah" bit, that was so appropriate. I wonder if we would see these comments if this was basketball & it was played at Kemper or the new Sprint Center (like Ill/Mizz St.Louis game) Hell No! You know why, Kansas believe(and is probably right) that their b-ball team is so superior to Mizzou. However, you would not hear Mizzou fans whining & bitching because the game was played in KC or all the traffic & rude fans almost made me "cry". People, I'm Mizzou & big 12 fan & I want all of us to be successful and I for 1 am extremely proud of KU & their success this year & wish them continued success. I hate when the b-ball team lose in the tourney each year, people, each schools success only make the rivalries that much better and anyone who think this game should be played anywhere other than KC is no "REAL" fan of college athletics, because it is & always will be about MONEY and look what kind of program you can build with MONEY (see Missouri -MIke Alden) and this is why the powers are shifting in the Big 12 (watch out for OkSt 165,000,000 donation). Let's root for both KU & MU and make this a "dogfight" next season and guess what KU fans, you might be able to say you beat the defending Nat'l Champs!!

ecoplanner 10 years, 4 months ago

actorman, Don't agree actorman... The KU grads I know (and am friends with) had little to no idea about the burning of Lawrence and such Civil War issues that wasn't taught to them until they got to KU and it was made a big deal of. Missouri fans rarely know of this history and those that do will ONLY use it in a misguided attempt to tweak a KU person.

On a slight tangent for a moment, if one reads their history thoroughly, one finds that abolitionists started moving to Kansas wholesale in an attempt to maintain a balance with the proslavery southerners moving into the state. So, at least some of the pre-and during the Civil War skirmishes we instigated as much or more by these newbie radicals on both sides:the local populace was drawn in on both sides to be sure but much of what is taught about that time period doesn't tell the whole story. And it is this story that still is some sort of rallying cry for KU folks. MU folks don't even think about it even though there were just as nasty massacres done in Missouri by Bloody Bill and the like.

In any event, the KU folks I know generally dislike MU only because of the Civil War type past they generally have more to say about KState (who's fans, if I recall correctly, threw coins at Rex of the classiest things I ever heard of was after one of these incidents, the team referred to Rex as "Tollbooth" what a great way to shake off such idiocy) and Oklahoma:..both of whom MU shares a dislike.

I leave you with a couple points:

Beakemhawks I happen to live in Missouri (eastern) even though I enjoy Kansas (and have done a great deal of work in the state) and have MANY friends there. Blanket hatred is repulsive you do yourself very poorly with such comments.

To all the anti-MU folks posting as well as those MU fans stirring things up unnecessarily:I am reminded of the old native American quote.

An old Cherokee was teaching his grandchildren about life. He said to them, "A battle is raging inside me ... it is a terrible fight between two wolves. One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego. The other stands for joy, peace, love, hope, sharing, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, friendship, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The old man fixed the children with a firm stare. "This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too."

They thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee replied: "The one you feed."

JBurtin 10 years, 4 months ago

Feed Missouri fans to both wolves

Problem solved.

Commenting has been disabled for this item.