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Wednesday, November 15, 2006

Kansas shocked by ORU, 78-71

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Though none of the current Oral Roberts players were playing as Golden Eagles when Bill Self used to roam the sidelines in Tulsa, Okla., the ties are still there, adding a little something extra to tonight's matchup between 0-1 ORU and the 1-0 Jayhawks.

Self coached at ORU from 1993-97, where he compiled a record of 55-54. Though that storyline is nothing more than cosmetic for the visitors, as they're more focused on avoiding the program's first 0-2 start since the 2001-02 campaign, in which the Golden Eagles opened up 0-4.

KU comes in rolling, however, after last Saturday's 91-57 season-opening blowout of Northern Arizona in Allen Fieldhouse.

Two names to watch on the visiting side are Ken Tutt and Caleb Green. Both are seniors, and are ORU's pulse on each end of the floor. Tutt, a 6-foot-1 guard, scored 26 points in the Golden Eagles' 69-65 loss to Loyola Marymount. Green, widely regarded as one of the country's top big men, stands 6-foot-8, and opened the season with a 12-point, 12-rebound effort.

Kansas, on the other hand, had five players - Brandon Rush, Julian Wright, Darnell Jackson, Sherron Collins and Darrell Arthur - score in double figures in the throttling of NAU.

Tip-off is set for 7 p.m. at Allen Fieldhouse

FIRST HALF

After a bevy of bad shots to start the game, Russell Robinson got KU on the board first just over a minute into the game with a leaner nestling against the paint in the midst of being fouled. The ensuing free throw gave KU an early 3-0 advantage.

A Jayhawk turnover on their next possession set up Caleb Green, ORU's top inside threat, at the line for a pair after being hacked on a follow up to his own miss. He hit both, and then Shawn King swatted Darnell Jackson on the other end to give the ball back to the visitors.

A littany of turnovers ensued, continuing an ugly start on both sides. Mario Chalmers, in his first start since the exhibition opener against Washburn, finally took advantage of one, when he went in for an easy, uncontested two following a Russell Robinson steal.

At the 16:21 mark, Darrell Arthur checked in for his first action of the night, taking the place of Jackson, who got off to a rough start.

Arthur started with a smooth post move which earned him a trip to the free throw stripe. He hit both to put KU up 7-4.

A fadeaway corner three misfired for Ken Tutt on the other end, keeping him off to a slow start as well, and took the game into its first full timeout, with KU still up three.

******

Following yet another turnover out of the timeout on the KU end, freshman Sherron Collins made his first appearance, relieving Russell Robinson.

ORU scored on the next trip down the floor with an inside two from Kelvin Sango. Arthur followed that with a miss on a baby hook on KU's end, and it resulted in ORU's first lead of the game on a baseline floater from Adam Liberty.

Self was forced to blow his first timeout of the night when ORU made it a 6-0 run with an emphatic dunk from Shawn King to put the Golden Eagles up 10-7.

******

Chalmers followed the break in action with a three-pointer from the right wing, but Sango answered with a tough inside move against a KU double team.

Arthur, though, out of another timeout, missed a layup inside at an awkward angle to keep ORU in front, 12-10.

Darnell Jackson back in the game made up for offensive inefficiency with toughness on his first opportunity, drawing a foul after two misses, and hitting both of his free throws to tie the game, 12-12.

In the process of KU tying the game, though, Collins drew a pair of fouls and a seat on the bench. One was a no-brainer on the defensive end, but the other drew the ire of the Fieldhouse faithful. On a fastbreak, he went coast-to-coast, and thought he'd nailed the tough part of a pretty three-point play. Instead, it was called a charge, and the teams headed to the second television timeout tied, 12-12.

******

With Brandon Rush offensively absent so far - having missed the one shot he took - Julian Wright provided a spark with just over 11 minutes to go in the half. He blocked a baseline attempt, brought it down court, and eventually took a feed and made a nice up-and-under to give KU back the lead, 14-12. A Caleb Green foul following an ORU turnover then put KU in the bonus at 10:45, but Robinson missed the front end of a one-and-one.

After Wright turned the ball over on another fastbreak, Tutt got himself in the scoring column on the other end with a fastbreak dish from Green. The momentum continued to swing the Golden Eagles' way as Darnell Jackson then drew a charge on the other end for his first foul of the night.

Arthur followed his first basket with the night with an emphatic swat on the other end, keeping KU's lead at two, but Green hit ORU's first three-pointer to put ORU back up one. After Arthur answered again, ORU's Marchello Vealy canned another three for the visitors, to put their lead at two, 20-18 with just over eight minutes to play in the half. Vealy followed it with another three which took a trip around the rim and backboard to silence the home crowd and put ORU up 23-18 with 8:06 left before the break.

******

Out of the timeout, not only did Russell Robinson miss a point-blank layup, but Arthur was whistled on the other end for a goaltend on Adam Liberty after he slipped around the defense for an open backdoor feed from Green to put ORU up seven points. After KU failed to score again, ORU got the ball again after a jump ball underneath. Vealy followed it with yet another trey to put ORU up by double digits, 28-18.

Chalmers ended the drought with a deuce in the lane, and after a block ont he other end, he took a feed from Rodrick Stewart for an uncontested layup to slice the deficit to six, at 28-22. Chalmers lead all KU scorers with nine points following the two quick hoops.

Vealy followed an ORU timeout with his fourth three-pointer of the game after Green made another sensational pass from the post. Arthur answered with another KU two, keeping the Jayhawks within range and down just seven. Vealy's fourth three-pointer quadrupled his career total in threes entering the game, and it tied him already for his career high in points in a single game at 12.

Rush finally broke the scoring column on the next trip down in a bonus situation, but was only able to make one of two, and couldn't get KU closer than seven. And, you guessed it, Vealy answered with another three-pointer to put ORU up 10 again, 35-25.

Rush continued to heat hup with a tip in off of his own miss, and then KU's second three of the night, and on top of it came an Adam Liberty travel under the KU hoop to send ORU into the half's final television timeout up 37-30.

******

Green continued his fantastic start with a fadeaway jumper on the baseline, giving him nine points, but Rush didn't cool during the break, hitting another jumper, this time from the free-throw line.

Arthur picked up a loose ball on the offensive end after a broken play to hit his third field goal of the game with 40 seconds to go before the half, pulling KU within five points. An ORU airball gave KU the half's final possession, but Arthur was left with the ball behind the arc and misfired, keeping ORU up 39-34 at the half.

HALFTIME

Marchello Vealy can be thanked for putting ORU up with his career-high five three-pointers. All of last year, he was 1-for-13 from long range. Caleb Green has nine points for the Golden Eagles.

For KU, Arthur leads the way with 10 points. Chalmers has nine and Rush has eight. While both teams are shooting near 50 percent from the field, the difference is ORU's six-for-nine performance from three-point range.

KU also has 14 turnovers in the first half, which overshadows a 19-14 rebounding advantage.

SECOND HALF

After a Darrell Arthur miss to start the half, Robinson swooped in for a nifty rebound, and Darnell Jackson followed a Brandon Rush miss to pull KU within three. Jackson, however, exited the game after crumpling in a heap to the floor on his way back to defend with an apparent cramp in his left leg.

Liberty answered on the ORU end with a baseline two.

KU again had a pair of misses, but this time it was Wright scoring the third-chance basket.

After a couple moments of silence, KU again scored inside, this time on an Arthur layin.

Green hit a three and drew some wrath from the home crowd after hanging his hand in the air. It drew a similar response from Rush after KU's subsequent score, but ORU still had the upper hand, leading 46-42.

Vealy then drew a foul after attempting to follow a Liberty miss, but the whistle brought the game to its first halt of the second half with 15:29 to go.

******

Vealy hit one of two. Inbounding the ball was Matt Kleinmann, who is seeing his first action of the night. Also in is Darnell Jackson, and he welcomed himself back onto the floor with an easy layin off a pass from Brandon Rush to make it a three-point game.

After an offensive foul, KU's Mario Chalmers made the Fieldhouse crowd reach new decibels off a steal at midcourt. He followed it with an emphatic one-handed dunk in the face of a Liberty. It also cut KU's lead to just one basket at 48-46.

ORU called a full timeout to attempt to hush the crowd, and it worked thanks to a KU missed three and then a turnover following an ORU miss.

Green was able to score again, this time working the paint to put himself in double figures with 10 points. Rush responded with a one-handed floater which just dribbled in off the iron.

Vealy, though, continued his torrid evening from deep, finding the bottom of the twine for his sixth three-ball. It was topped off with a turnover on the other end, as Kleinmann threw an awkward pass into the post which was picked.

When ORU failed to capitalize, Rush was fouled taking a three which missed, but first there was a timeout at the 11:13 mark, with Rush to shoot three free throws out of the break and KU trailing 53-48.

******

Rush was only able to make the final free throw attempt, while Green hit another tear-drop jumper in response on the baseline. Arthur was able to score again in the paint on a feed from Robinson, but Liberty continued his solid second half with a mid-range jumper of his own.

Vealy's seventh three-pointer of the game came on the heels of a poor Darnell Jackson miss from 18 feet, and gave ORU reason to rejoice heading into a timeout at the 9:52 mark leading 60-51.

Darrell Arthur's only answer out of the timeout was a dribble off of his foot to give the ball to ORU once again. Vealy had his first misfire from deep, but Sango followed it up underneath to push the lead back into double digits at 62-51.

After arthur was broke on a pair of free throws, Robinson hustled for another offensive board and fed him for another easy deuce. A louder crowd participation came when Vealy was then whistled for a travel to give KU the ball again. Mario Chalmers then had an inadvertent assist to Julian Wright after loosing the ball on his knee while knifing through the lane. But true to form, ORU came right back, this time with a three from Tutt - the Golden Eagles' 10th trey of the night. It put ORU up 65-55 with 6:48 to go.

******

Arthur opened the game's final stretch with a basket, then drew an offensive foul from Green. He added to it by making a tough, twisting, deflected hoop on the baseline to quickly pull KU within six points at 65-59, and forced ORU to blow a quick whistle.

Liberty was able to quiet the crowd somewhat, though, after drawing a loud slap on an attempted jumper. He hit both free throws to put ORU back up by eight points. KU's only answer was a Chalmers miss inside, followed by a missed tip-in attempt from Arthur.

Chalmers was able to help out, though, by earning a charging call near the arc on the next trip up the floor, and on the offensive end, Rush went to the line, but hit just one-of-two, making him two for his last five at the stripe.

Arthur was able to drop in another tough two inside, being the only Jayhawk to consistently make shots during the game, and he pulled KU again within five points at 67-62. But Green again got in his kitchen at the opposite end, drawing a foul while in the bonus. He made both free throws to again expand the Golden Eagles' lead to seven points.

Robinson, though, was able to get a hoop-and-harm on the other end on a scrappy layup, making it a 69-64 game with the free throw to come after the final television timeout, leaving 3:55 to play.

******

Robinson missed the free throw, continuing KU's struggles from the line. KU was able to force a turnover, but Julian Wright tried to get cute with the ball by going reverse through his legs to avoid a defender and gave it right back. ORU missed, but Chalmers couldn't make good on a three at the other end, giving ORU the ball agian with 2:45 to play and KU down five.

Green kept going with another two points, and the crowd silenced even more when King swatted a Robinson layup underneath in strong fashion.

On the inbound, Chalmers missed an inside floater, but Jackson, recently re-inserted in the game, followed it with a layup at the two-minute mark.

ORU couldn't cash in on the other and KU got the ball back with 80 seconds to go down five. Jackson followed a Robinson miss to pull KU within three, and ORU whistled a thirty-second timeout up 71-68 with 1:17 to play.

******

On defense, Jackson was whistled for a foul underneath when Liberty went tough to the hole, earning a trip to the line with 1:05 to go. After missing the first, he made it a two-score game with the second free throw.

Robinson drew a block on Liberty at the other end, and the double bonus gave him two free throw attempts. He made the first, but missed the second to keep it at a three-point game. ORU called a timeout with :53.1 to go after crossing the ball across the timeline.

******

Tutt nailed one spike in the coffin witha three from the wing, and followed it with a few hard chest pumps. After a KU miss, ORU got the ball back, drew a foul and the streamline for the exits began in the stands.

Tutt made a pair of free throws, but with just :24.0 to go, there wasn't much time for a late run from the Jayhawks. Chalmers earned a three free-throw trip, but made just two, and the foul fest began, wtih ORU putting on some cosmetic points at the end.

Dropping KU to 1-1 in the early season was a final score of Oral Roberts 78, Kansas 71.

Arthur led all scorers with 22 points, while Green had 20 for the Golden Eagles. Rush scored 14, while Chalmers added 13 for the Jayhawks. On the visiting side, Tutt had 12, along with Liberty. Vealy finished tied with Arthur for the game-high with 22 coming off of a 7-for-8 performance beyond the arc.

Comments

Todd 13 years, 2 months ago

You people make me want to vomit. Everyone hated Roy for leaving and now all of a sudden he wins a championship with an inherited team that he had nothing to do with in recruiting and he's back to being god. You people dump praise by bucketloads on the players when we win but tear Self to shreds if we lose. We lost the game because the players played with no heart and were too full of themselves. Yes the coaching tonight was not up to Kansas standards and I'm sure Self would admit to that, but come on.

Quite frankly there is nobody out there, short of the Lord Almighty that will please any of you calling for Self's job. I hear Tugeon's name, but as soon as he lost a game there would be people calling for his neck to be in the noose. When Roy was here, people called for his job all the time. I thought the people on the football message board were hard on Mangino, but come on people. It's a long season.

Miles Garrett 13 years, 2 months ago

does anybody know where i can listen to or watch this online tonight? i can't get the lazer, kjhk, or kkle to work.

hspunk97 13 years, 2 months ago

<p>cstv.com. theres a link to it on kuathletics.com it cost 6.95 per month but they broadcast the game aswell.

Miles Garrett 13 years, 2 months ago

somehow i cannot find the game on cstv.com. Do they only show CBS games?

SpeedRacer 13 years, 2 months ago

I had no trouble getting KWME to work on the kkle site.

http://www.kkle.com/

Miles Garrett 13 years, 2 months ago

oh, maybe it's my connection then. for me kwme cuts out every 20 or 30 seconds.

speedy 13 years, 2 months ago

thank you sports ill. the jinx still works

Eric TheCapn 13 years, 2 months ago

Wow, must I rekindle the Fire 'Coach' Self Committee this early in the season?

Todd Simpson 13 years, 2 months ago

so what was the final score I know the game is over.

brooksmd 13 years, 2 months ago

Better a wake-up call early in the season than later.

Todd Simpson 13 years, 2 months ago

I can't understand why a coach can't win against po dunk teams but can win the big ones against teams like Kentucky out there.....Self is starting to look like a bad choice for Kansas, but hey who else was out there?

dbgjayhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

yeah, at least we won't have all the pressure from being ranked so high. now we can relax and not have to worry about the rankings and just play ball.

lee3022 13 years, 2 months ago

They shot 64% FG and 71% 3-point. We shot 57% FG 42% 3-point. They shot 78% FT and we shot 81% FT. All else is relatively a wash. So out inability to defend the perimeter stands out as a glaring weakness. In addition we should be able to significantly out rebound most teams but did not tonight (16-15 us).

estaboy 13 years, 2 months ago

I honestly think maybe its time, we look beyond Self. I love the guy and think he's quite the character, but come on Oral Roberts? I mean for once I can honestly say I really truly miss Roy. Tonight was just ugly and uncalled for. Where are the #3 ranked Jayhawks?

hspunk97 13 years, 2 months ago

2nd game of the season. relax! Whos knows. maybe ORU has a really good team.

hire_turgeon 13 years, 2 months ago

I used to support Self but not anymore. Fire him, hire Mark Turgeon from Wichita State.

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

ORAL ROBERTS WINNING WAS NO UPSET! NOT WITH BILL SELF INVOLVED IN THE KU PROGRAM! JUST ANOTHER CHOKE BY BILL! MR. SELF PROVES ONCE AGAIN NO MATTER HOW MUCH TALENT HE HAS HE CAN'T COACH. KU HAS ZERO CHANCE OF WINNING THE NCAA TOURNAMENT. BILL SELF MIGHT BE THE ONLY COACH IN AMERICA WHO CAN FIND A WAY TO BOTTLE UP THE MOST TALENTED BASKETBALL PLAYERS IN THE NATION AND KEEP THAT GREATNESS BOTTLED UP ON THE COURT FOR THE DURATION OF THEIR CAREERS. EXPECT KU TO CHOKE IN THE FIRST ROUND AGAIN THIS YEAR!

MANGINO AND SELF ARE A BUNCH OF CLOWNS AND ALWAYS WILL BE. SELF LOSES TO KSU IN ALLEN AND NOW ORAL ROBERTS. KU'S NEXT OPPONENT SHOULD BE FAVORED. KU ISN'T EVEN TOP 25 MATERIAL!

Jay_lo 13 years, 2 months ago

New year, same way to lose a game. Claw back and have two chances to tie or take a lead, and take your two worst early possesion shots of the contest, look up and you're down double digits, get close again in the final few minutes, and forget how to make a free throw. Seems like almost every upset loss in the last few years follows the same formula.

HillbillyHick 13 years, 2 months ago

What is your problem KU coaches??? pull your heads out and coach the frickin games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how do you not foul with 50 seconds left while they are still in 1 in 1?????? your going to let them take it down to 20 seconds and/or risk giving up the double bonus on a shooting foul??? and just hope they don't score?????

It really looks like our coaches bring in the talent but just can't coach durring the games!!!

Show me something KU, please!!!!!!!!!!! maybe a little intensity????? PLEASE!!!!!!!

bethnbob 13 years, 2 months ago

I don't think it was Bill Self, but what he feared. That their ranking would go to their heads. Have seen the cover of Sports Illustrated?

audvisartist 13 years, 2 months ago

They lost because the LJWorld messed up the article headline... "Self welcomes former emploer to Allen Fieldhouse"

jared1426 13 years, 2 months ago

you are being too easy on Self....come on!! i used to try and make excuses for him too....but this is ridiculous. if Roy had these players we would be undefeated all season. Roy knows how to win close games...and he knows how to demolish crappy teams.

bengland 13 years, 2 months ago

wow. feel the love.
Puh...leeeeze people. Its one game. I think it'll be good in the long run, but we've got one of the top 5 coaches in America peeps...and Self has a great tourney record. 3 different teams to the Sweet 16. Everybody take a deep breath and r e l a x.

estaboy 13 years, 2 months ago

Yes, he does have a great tourney record, our last two NCAA's prove that. Maybe he should take this coaching talent where he'll actually choose to use it.

Fire Self.

lee3022 13 years, 2 months ago

Sportsline updated stats: FG 50% - 43% them; 3-point FG: 64%-20% them; FT: 68%-55%; rebounds 25-38 us; assists:18-13 them.

bengland 13 years, 2 months ago

oh and one other thing...jared1426 must not remember Arizona in '97, Rhode Island in '98, UTEP in I forget. It happens. You lose games. I'm sticking with Self.

sevenyearhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

This school didn't even start with a B !!!

I'm going to send a Lawrence real estate guide to Mark Turgeon next week ...

jared1426 13 years, 2 months ago

bengland...i'm glad you could come up with a few sparse examples in Roy's extensive career at KU...Self has only been here a few seasons...give me a break...there is no question who the better coach is.

lookingugly 13 years, 2 months ago

If you can't get the players to do defense right then don't double down. And once you have been burned by a player with 3 or 4 straight 3 pointers shouldn't you try to keep a hand in his face all night? Vealy had 6 straight 3's without missing. Pull your heads out of your fricking behind and do a little coaching. It would been better to let red on the head guard Green all night by himself. Of course our comments don't count for much but I still help pay your salary Mr. Self.

fansincewilt 13 years, 2 months ago

I think we'll be okay. Bill will figure out what's wrong. A good tailwhipping for a team like this is probably good. I'm still looking to be in the final four. This is a very talented team. Chalmers needs to step up. We needed him to be more agressive. He will be the one to take over a game like this. I'm not sure what was wrong with him tonight. This is a very good team and I think they will make the best of this loss.

Douglas Yetman 13 years, 2 months ago

So many of the above comments and emotions are absoltely correct. The pride of the KU basketball program is really in jeopardy. Roy had us care about the players as kids and we knew that he would demand the best of them. He would expect excellence from them and we were proud of them for that. It seems as if there are simply too many lapses of heart from the players and tactical execution from the coaches. Sad frikkin day.

bethnbob 13 years, 2 months ago

Hey nikesasquatch,

Did you watch the game? The first half the players looked like crap, they couldn't shoot or play defense. And you can't defend than any better when you've got a hand in the guys face and he still makes a 3. That's not coaching. They came out ranked #3 and they let it go to their heads and they got a big wake up call. Hopefully they do wake up and play good ball from now on.

drummerboy67 13 years, 2 months ago

while i am profoundly disillusioned by a loss to such a bad team so early in the season, this talk of firing self needs to stop. it's just too early in a season that doesn't begin to really matter until march.

yes, it's fair to question self's coaching abilities, especially when it comes to close games, but i think it is more appropriate to question the players. they are the ones that let this happen, not self. they arrogantly assumed all along that they could catch up at some point and now they should be embarassed.

bengland 13 years, 2 months ago

a few sparse examples? perhaps...but under a very, very bright spotlight. Remember Ball State v Kansas in the Miami Invitational in what...2000? 2001? Yes, Roy is a better coach, I'll give you that. Not doubting that.
But. He's. Gone. and not coming back.
Time to get used to that.

KyleXY 13 years, 2 months ago

If the AD can't fire Self then the AD needs to be fired. Self's record is that he can't motivate or get players to adapt to anything. How long must we endure this humiliation? Egad, on the same week we're on the cover of SI. What a joke Self is!

middleoftheroader 13 years, 2 months ago

let's put it this way... whether Bill Self is to blame or not and whether Bill Self should need to be replaced after this season if they again underperform or not... this is Kansas University Men's basketball. expectations are high and should always be... and not to mention they could just about hire anybody they wanted to coach the team... so i say this is the final test season for Bill Self, if they underperform in the big 12 and the big dance... then Bill Self ought to be replaced

lee3022 13 years, 2 months ago

All you KU haters need to simmer down. Basketball is a game for crying out loud (and I am also saddened). Coach Self did not miss free throws. Coach Self did not take the crowd out of the game. Coach Self does use this as an opportunity to get the players' attention and work harder on being controlled and aggressive on offense and stifling on perimeter defense. Better the second game than the last game. Yes, attitudes and focus need to change and they will. I believe we have both the talent in players and the ability in coaches to overcome and learn and move on.

Oral Roberts - congratulations. Big win for you that might be the ticket to the NCAA tournament.

jared1426 13 years, 2 months ago

yea, lets blame it on some 18 year old kids....i think EVERYONE here that has watched the past few seasons knows there is a problem with the coaching whether they admit it or not...stop making excuses...bad coaching is bad coaching...

Douglas Yetman 13 years, 2 months ago

Self has THIS YEAR to prove himself. We do not need to fire him now. God knows that Roy had his failures and NEVER won one until he had someone elses players, but this game is eerily similar to the losses versus the 2 Bs....Bucknell and Bradley. A KU team with superior talent was beaten by a quality team that had a good game plan, executed and got some confidence. THAT is exatctly when COACHING is needed!!!!

kjhk 13 years, 2 months ago

These kids needed a wake up call and fortunately it happened early in the season, I figured it would happened against Florida . Maybe they will get their minds in the game by next week....keep your fingers crossed

Duane Peschka 13 years, 2 months ago

KU was the #3 ranked team in the country with talent, talent, talent. There is no way they should have lost at Allen Field House to ORU. ORU is a decent team, but no where the talent KU has. Again, it is a rerun of the last couple of years. No 3-pt. defense. Poor foul shooting when it is important to make. Totally sloppy play with a high rate of turnovers. KU will go to the NCAA tournament but again will lose in the first round. No excuses. This much talent on a team should have performed much better, especially at home. The one constant varible to such poor losses is the coaching. Self can recruit but can not coach in game day situations. KU will lose at least 8 more games this year, and Florida will blow them out on Nov. 25. It really is time for a head coaching change at KU. There are several young, aggressive, inovative coaches that would cherish coming to KU. The Wheatshockers head coach is certainly one of them. The players have been reading too many of their own press clippings. None of them are ready to play at the NBA level. Obviously, most of them have difficulty playing at the Collegiate level. It would be accurate to drop KU out of the top 25 in light of the lose at home. No excuses. Absolutely no excuses. Poor coaching adjustments during the game, and poor play by the greatly overrated KU players.

fansincewilt 13 years, 2 months ago

Was that Roy that almost lost to Winthrop tonight? Our guys are really young. Self has to live with that. He's doing a great job with them. I think maybe we gotta figure somehow to stop that perimeter game when a team gets this hot!

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

Oral Roberts is not a good team. They lost to Loyola Marymount who promptly went to Mississippi State and lost 37-61.

People should be ticked. KU is 1-2 in their last three games with losses to two inferior opponents. Self is a good coach. Recruiting is a huge part of coaching. Roy was not all that great either. I remember watching Roy get less than what he should have with the best team ever. Paul Pierce is one of the best scorers in the NBA and Roy couldn't find a system to use that.

Good luck Bill. Come on and figure out how to get these guys up for every game.

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

AT SOME POINT KU FANS AND BILL SELF LOVERS NEED TO REALIZE BILL SELF IS A MASTER RECRUITER AND ONE OF THE WORST COACHES IN AMERICA. EVEN WHEN KU HAS A PRETTY GOOD FIELD GOAL PERCENTAGE THEY DON'T SCORE THAN MANY POINTS. ROY WILLIAMS OBVIOUSLY KNEW HOW TO GET HIS TEAMS TO SCORE POINTS EVEN WITH LESS TALENTED PLAYERS. AT SOME POINT EVEN THE BIGGEST BILL SELF LOVERS WILL HAVE TO LOOK AT THE LOSSES TO TEAMS LIKE BUCKNELL, K-STATE, BRADLEY, ORAL ROBERTS, AND WHO KNOWS WHO IS NEXT AND REALIZE THAT BILL SELF CAN'T COACH. IF THE #3 TEAM IN THE NATION CAN'T BEAT ORAL ROBERTS, WHO CAME INTO THE GAME WITH A 0-1 RECORD, IN ALLEN FIELDHOUSE THEN THEY REALLY AREN'T THE #3 TEAM IN THE NATION. KU MIGHT NOT EVEN BE TOP 25. KEEP DEFENDING SELF AND KEEP LOSING IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE NCAA TOURNAMENT. SELF COULD LOSE IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE NCAA TOURNAMENT FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS AND THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME KU FANS WHO DEFEND HIM! I'M NOT ONE OF THEM!

Jay_lo 13 years, 2 months ago

A loss is good...have faith...early in the season...should still go far in the tourney...good wake up call...

Place this blog along side any one following a shouldn't have lost game in the last two seasons and you'll really get a taste of that deja-vu. The way those seasons ended, it's little wonder some people are starting to worry early.

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

Before we rip on Mangiganto, we should look at Memorial Stadium. That is the worst place in the world to watch a football game. Nebraska has it figured out. Get rid of the stinkin' track and put the fans closer to the field.

Nate Poell 13 years, 2 months ago

Hey, nikesasquatch, could you speak up?

jared1426 13 years, 2 months ago

drummerboy...you just keep revealing how ignorant you are of the game. if you think that players are the only/main factor of the game, you are sadly mistaken.

bengland 13 years, 2 months ago

must we scream on the chat board nike...?

I like Bill Self. I think he's a fine coach. We're going to have a good season.

Oh wait - what was I thinking? THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!

drummerboy67 13 years, 2 months ago

shut up jared, i've played, watched and coached basketball for a long time. i'm sorry that any subtlety is lost on your dimwitted mind, so i'll be explicit. in basketball, coaches must stay on the sidelines. they cannot play, score points, play defense, and make free throws. ultimately, it is up to the players to put the coach's plan into action, and i thought the jayhawks looked like they lacked the desire, intensity and confidence. certain things can't be coached.

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

One thing I will point out against Self. The best player on the team tonight is one of the one's with the least Self experience. The returning starters are the ones that really stunk it up.

                              FG       3pt     FT      Fouls   Totals

Russell Robinson 2-8 0-0 2-5 3 6 Brandon Rush 5-14 1-4 3-7 1 14

StrawBoy 13 years, 2 months ago

yea everyone shut up w/ the firing self talk....its one game, its early, and ORU is not a bad team. of course roy was a better coach, but self is still a great coach. come on guys.

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

THE SKY WILL BE FALLING IN MARCH. I'M JUST CALLING FOR SELF TO BE FIRED A FEW MONTHS BEFORE MOST KU FANS WILL BE SAYING THE SAME THING!

Steve Jacob 13 years, 2 months ago

Just read on espn bracket (yea I know it's early) thay listed ORU as #15 seed, winning their confrence, so teams like this is what KU will be facing the the first round of the NCAA tournament.

Young team with injuries at center, so give them a pass. If they start losing at home in January, panic then.

bengland 13 years, 2 months ago

nikesasquatch will you please stop yelling? good god. how long have you been a KU fan? 3 months?

drummerboy67 13 years, 2 months ago

"Our stats stayed the same throughout the game - That's the coach's job." well, this is almost an idea.

bengland 13 years, 2 months ago

here's a question for everyone...name one coach that has never lost a game....

anyone? jared? nikeshouter? bueller?

I'm waiting...

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

ROY WILLIAMS NEVER LOST TO K-STATE. ROY WILLIAMS NEVER LOST IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE NCAA TOURNAMENT. ROY WILLIAMS NEVER LOST TO BUCKNELL, BRADLEY, OR ORAL ROBERTS. ROY WILLIAMS BEAT ORAL ROBERTS BY 68. COMPARING ROY WILLIAMS TO BILL SELF IS LIKE COMPARING A LEXUS TO A TOYOTA YARIS. THERE IS NO COMPARISON!

feefifofum 13 years, 2 months ago

Can't a team be coached through this type of game? Self just seems to be as tight as his players in this type of situation. Sickening replay of NCAA opening round losses is not a good sign. Yes - we will get it together and be a strong team.... but it is sad to see "BEWARE OF THE PHOG" become "WELCOME TO OUR HOME - HOPE YOU HAD A NICE TIME".

bengland 13 years, 2 months ago

I couldn't hear that could you speak up?
Roy did lose in the first round of the tournament...to UTEP in the early 90's. Then in 98 with a #1 seed to Rhode Island in the second round (plenty of those to go around). Get a grip. Yes, Roy's a better coach...but Self is pretty good too.

drummerboy67 13 years, 2 months ago

how can you honestly want him to resign? this season will be over and so will the next because we will lose our recruits. would it just kill some people to think before they speak?

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

Snatchsquat - LEXUS LEFT. Self will right this ship. If any recruit read this board they would see what kind of fans we have. Roy was a great coach, but he is somebody elses, now.

When KU sneaks up on Florida and gets a big win I hope to see you with the same passion saying:

BILL SELF IS A GREAT COACH!!!! I LOVE HIM AND AM SO GLAD THAT HE IS COACHING AT KU. I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL WE WIN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. WEEEE HEEEE HEEEEE!!!!!!!!

go roy.

apeoples410 13 years, 2 months ago

Does this suck??? YES!!! Is it a little early in the season to be calling for Self's head? YES!!!

A mediocre team came to Allen Fieldhouse and played lights out at a very unfortunate time for KU.

I'd rather get the embarrasing losses out of the way early in the season. The team can learn from this and move on.

I think Self and the team feel bad enough about this loss as it is. I don't think it helps to bash on Self. Let's move on!

bengland 13 years, 2 months ago

I can honestly say I'm embarassed to be fans of the same program as most of you here. Wow.

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

ACTUALLY, UNTIL BILL SELF RUINED EVERYTHING KU HAD NOT LOST IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE NCAA TOURNAMENT SINCE 1978 TO UCLA AND LARRY BROWN OR ROY WILLIAMS NEVER LOST TO K-STATE. KEEP DREAMING!

killjoy 13 years, 2 months ago

These posts are the result of Bill's lack of ability, not the players. Until we cut out the Cancer, it will only grow and ruin our program. Think we can recruit if we play like this? I can't wait until Bill is out ex-coach.

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

AT K-STATE I WILL ADD! BILL IS GOING TO RUIN THAT STREAK THIS YEAR!

jeffmaher 13 years, 2 months ago

Glad to see so many Ku fans passionate this early. Let's not forget last year- off to a very slow start under .500 after 7 games and not even sniffing the rankings. Then Self's COACHING takes the team on a run and WINS the BIG 12 and Big 12 Tourney smoking a more talented and experienced Texas team. Big 12 COACH OF THE YEAR. Oh, yeah let's fire him after game 2 of this season. What fair weather fans we are! You really think we are going 40-0 this year? Get a clue- you are dealing with college hoops in 2006, 18 and 19 year olds aren't infallible. Have the nads to sack up and take it like true fans. We won't win EVERY GAME EVERY year. Although some of you think we should. Ever had an off day at work????

lvbooth05 13 years, 2 months ago

Is all the fire bill self going to happen after every loss?!?! a loss is a loss whether its at the begining of the season middle of the season or senior night. ya i always hate leaving the fieldhouse when we have less points on that scoreboard, but everyone on here is fire bill self on day, he is great the next. the team will be fine. and roy doesnt want us. WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP TALKING ABOUT ROY WHEN HE DOESNT EVEN WANT US. WHY DONT YOU GUYS SUPPORT SOMEONE WHO LOVES US AND SAVE THE HATE FOR ROY. and mark turgeon wouldnt fit here. SELF DOES!

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

CAN WE PROMOTE DANNY MANNING TO HEAD COACH AND KEEP BILL SELF ON AS A RECRUITER? JUST AN IDEA...

REAL_KUfan 13 years, 2 months ago

You all should be embarrassed of yourselves (not all - Drummer and others are being reasonable). Real fans do not act this way. 3 year old children don't act this way. You're being ridiculous and I guarantee not one player on the team would be proud of the jersey they were wearing based on the type of fans that are on here. Please, please, please, find another team to be fans of. Please find another program to drag down by your negativity, your irrationality, and your general BS. Seriously, if I thought that any of you were smart enough or compassionate enough to know the difference, I'd wish more for you. But since you're not, all I can do is pray that your computers crash so I don't have to read your drivel or that you find a different team to root for.

Shame on you.

kumaximus 13 years, 2 months ago

Bradley and Bucknell were bad...but they weren't at home. Winning a home is a tradition that makes Kansas one of the best places to play in the nation. Oral Roberts, St. Joseph's, Nevada, Richmond, K-State...these are losses that shouldn't occur in the Fieldhouse. We beat Oklahoma and Oklahoma State with come-from-behind victories; we destroy Kentucky, Georgia Tech, and Michigan State at home, but we lose to the Low-Mid Major programs. That is unacceptable. I get the feeling Bill does not spend enough time stressing the Kansas tradition to his players. Roy was a coach for the fans (students especially). Since Bill's been here, the students have lost 800 seats and have been moved further up in the rafters. Maybe part of the reason we're not winning games at home is because the atmosphere that was Kansas basketball is going away.

pitthawker 13 years, 2 months ago

WOW...If I remeber correctly, KU lost the Nat'l Championship by being "out-coached". Why are we not putting any blame on the players??? Its obvious a lot of you dont have avery high basketball IQ. Bill cant be on the court playing defense. Give it time! I think the players dont understand that they will be getting the best games from everyone they play this year. This could be a wake up call. If I remember correctly, Bill Self has won just as many nat'l championships as Roy. Self was coach when KU won the Big 12 tourney by beating Texas. I PROMISE every big team will be upset AT LEAST once this year. Its part of basketball, so what we didnt get the perfect season.

Jay_lo 13 years, 2 months ago

A great coach that can't recruit is no better off than a great recruiter that can't coach. What makes a coach a winner is the ability to recognize their own shortcomings, and put together a staff that can fill in the blanks.

Somebody has to know what to do when we are losing at the style of game we thought we wanted to play. Running is good when you can outrun somebody. You've got a half to figure out that maybe you need to change things if it's not working.

jayloco 13 years, 2 months ago

No excuse for losing to ORU. On the road, I might understand, but people are NOT paying $45 a ticket to watch KU lose to ORU in Allen! Why did we wait so long to go into zone? Why not foul when you were in the 1-and-1? SI cover or not, we got exposed down low. Why was Kleinmann in the game in the 2nd half? Someone in foul trouble? He got USED down low on 2 straight possessions. ORU hit some unbelievable shots, but c'mon Bill.

Dick Murdock 13 years, 2 months ago

Six words: Self great recruiter - Roy better coach

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

AT LEAST I HAVE THE KU FOOTBALL GAME AGAINST KSU TO LOOK FORWARD TO. I'M SURE WITH KU'S SECONDARY AND MANGINO'S BRILLIANT TACTICAL COACHING JOSH FREEMAN OF KSU IS GOING TO ROLL OVER FOR KU AND MAKE THE JAYHAWKS BOWL ELIGIBLE.

amyleigh1221 13 years, 2 months ago

I'm sorry but are you guys f*ing kidding me? FIRE bill? what the hell do you think we would do if that happened? honestly. he recruits and the kids play. ORU just couldn't miss tonight. yes, we had bad plays. but when we win you dont notice those bad plays do you? no...you dont. and plus, the refs weren't calling the game fairly.

and i agree wth lvbooth....when roy lost everyone wasn't on this "Fire Roy bus" so why are we with bill? just because he lost 2 first round games in 2 years...but think about it. those were with roys players...not bills. this is now bills team and you know what...they are pretty impressive if you ask me.

jayloco 13 years, 2 months ago

pitthawker-what are you smoking man? When did Bill when his championship? Roy got his 2 years ago. Yes, every team will get beat this year, but will UNC, Florida, Ohio State, etc. lose to the likes of an ORU??? You are apparently the one with the low BBALL IQ. Bill can't be on the court, but it is his job to adjust his defense accordingly when he sees things aren't working. He did none of this and sat idly by while ORU opened an 11 point lead. It was obvious they were shooting pretty well in the 1st half, why not switch up to zone coming out of the half time break?

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

I agree with the statement that people are a lot less forgiving when they have to pay $45 a ticket to see a team. I am really frustrated with the loss, but that is nothing new. I have sat in a room with a lot of KU fans who start bad mouthing the team and coach the first time things get tough.

That cheer of the "Wheat Waving" is more like the KU fans jumping on and off of the bandwagon.

jayloco 13 years, 2 months ago

amyleigh1221-Fire Bill is extreme I admit, but the reason why the Fire Roy bus didn't get started is because ROY rarely lost to a team like ORU 2 or 3 games into the season.

The refs didn't call the game fairly?? Give me a break. They were in Allen and played like crap. They didn't deserve to get any calls and they went both ways. I didn't see a drastic bias to ORU.

Self also made the Great 8 with Roy's boys. Don't forget that. Bill got outcoached in both of the 1st round losses the last 2 years. How many 1st round tourney games did Roy lose??? HMMM.....

Jay_lo 13 years, 2 months ago

By the way nike, I know sasquatch have big fingers, but they don't have to make big letters. Just hit that "Caps Lock" key again and they will go away.

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

Roy got his Championship with Matt Doherty's team. Let's see him do it with his own.

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

jay, thanks for telling me. i didn't even know my caps lock was on! ;)

kulover88 13 years, 2 months ago

self sucks ass we need to get a REAL frickin coach. Seriously getting beat is one thing but getting outhustled is another!

jayloco 13 years, 2 months ago

Bone777-What true fan doesn't do this man? I mean, some fans live and die with this team. I admit, this was a tough loss to take, but don't take everyone's comments to mean we are jumping off the bandwagon. I think people just see a lot of danger signs with Bill's regime. Lot of quality talent, but some troubling losses and lack of a run in the Big Dance the last 2 years has people questioning Bill's abilities.

kcmostwanted 13 years, 2 months ago

Wow.. lots of haters after one loss....Wasn't it just a few days ago that we were all raving about "Florida is in Trouble"...What's up w/ all you people....everyone hates Roy and then now everyone wants him back (fyi his team looked pretty bad tonight and barely won)...A loss is a loss...we should pick up our heads and hope that this opens the eyes of our players..i think they went into the game to over confident and were shocked at how well ORU executed......

Can't blame everything on Self if his team doesn't execute!!!

and Brandon Please step up your game...where were you for 15 minutes the first half and 15 minutes the 2nd half...You're a great player (when you want to be) but...you need to arrive and play like one night in and night out...

amyleigh1221 13 years, 2 months ago

yeah so what if roy didnt lose any first round games...that doesnt give us a reason to fire bill. its not like we have terrible players and lose everygame.

and you are going to tell me that there were not some major calls that could have changed the game called wrong?? honestly. what about towards the end when they called a blocking foul and it was an obvious charge...huh?? that could have turned the game around. and what about all those over the backs they were pulling and NONE got called but everytime we tried playing defense something was called on us? you're gonna tell me that it didnt seem like they were a little bias? oh please.

i just dont think that ONE game in the begining of the season should make everyone jump on the fire bill bus. thats a joke!! people that know what they are talking about would say that it was a game that just woke us up. it was a slap in the face and i bet you that our players learned from it. the season isnt over. there are a ton of games left.

oh yeah...and if we beat FL i bet all of you guys will jump right back to the "keep bill bus" just because it was FL.

jayloco 13 years, 2 months ago

Bone777-We will have to agree to disagree. What did that team do under Doherty? 12-18 wasn't it? When Roy came in and instilled the "team" concept? Got them to buy in to his game plan? NATL CHAMPIONSHIP. I will agree that Matt Doherty recruited those guys, but Roy is the one that coached them and got them on board with his way of doing things. I don't think you can take that away from Roy.

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

jayloco - read up the list. I was ripping initially also. I'm guilty as anyone. I hate losing and I feel like I'm losing when the hawks are losing.

I just have gotten a grip on my emotions and realize these kids came to KU, because of Bill Self and support is what they need right now.

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

I think some people just come here to defend Bill Self at all costs after a bad loss almost to vindicate him and to promote some type of utopian world that should exist where judgement is never passed under any circumstance and everybody should get along. I am on a KU board and not the San Francisco Dons board right?

jeffmaher 13 years, 2 months ago

Personally I think Self wanted our guys to get EXPOSED. He wants them to see if they don't get into position what can happen. It is called COACHING. Sometimes it is OK to lose to make a point. I am not saying Self wanted to lose- but it is OK at this juncture to not be so successful that your heads swell. This game film may be the most important piece of tape this team watches all year. He even said on his TV show this past week that he didn't put in certain help defenses in the exhibitions because he needs the players to realize why they get burned. A month from now noone will remember this game. (Well actually a few of you will- just like you remember losing your gradeschool championship games- get over it.) We will continue to be ranked in the top 10 and getting ready to dominate the Big 12. Like every year. Take a sedative and go to bed freaks!

trollkiller 13 years, 2 months ago

REAL KU fans care about the team and want us to fix our problems. In this case, it means getting rid of a bad coach! Good luck elsewhere Self!!!

Jay_lo 13 years, 2 months ago

True, Roy's boys barely won. They were down 8 at half and outscored Winthrop 43-28 in the second half.

Looks like somebody made some adjustments at halftime, possibly?

And what was the key word? Could it be "Won"?

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

I waffle with Roy also. Sometimes, I'm really happy for him and a lot of the times I root for him to lose. I took it real personal when they were on the verge of a National Championship and couldn't reel in the UNC folks not to talk about a possible job offer. I still hate thinking about it.

jayloco 13 years, 2 months ago

I can't speak for everyone, but I am not part of the FIRE BILL crew. I like Bill Self, but would be less than honest if I didn't say I have concerns about his coaching abilities. I am NOT saying he is a bad coach, just question some of his strategies and moves.

There was no bias Amy. The only bias is your own because you, like me, expect for the calls to go KU's way in Allen and tonight maybe they didn't. That particular play was not a charge. I believe it was Jackson and he was way too far under the basket to call a charge. At best it should have been a no call. There couldn't have been that many over the backs because we still outrebounded them by 13 I believe.

If we beat Florida great. Maybe they needed this slap back to reality to get them ready for the Gators.

truefan 13 years, 2 months ago

I really don't even know what to say. Maybe I'm bad luck or something. Examples: Go Royals...wait, Go Cheifs...wait, Go KU Football...wait, Go KU Basketball...damnit. I'm sorry everyone, but this loss is obviously my fault.
In defense for Bill Self; A) he cannot help that I am a fan of his team. B) every coach has a rediculous loss during the year.

Self's team played great late last year and then faultered to a pretty damn good Bradley team that completely dominated us on the glass with the use of two very talented and coordinated seven-footers. Oral Roberts goes to the big dance pretty much every year and they had two big men that honestly couldn't missed if they tried.

Unfortunately, I feel that Bill Self did not prepare his team for Oral Roberts. Evidence is mounting quickly that Bill can't win against mid-majors, but he can shock the best teams in the country. It seems like he doesn't understand that every game is a big game, especially when we become the biggest choke artists in the nation...yes we have surpassed Kentucky for that award. If Bill can't beat the mid-majors come march (again) then we should consider a coaching change, but until then, let him get his whole team back (Sasha) and watch what he can do then.

The sky isn't falling; I am just a little embarrassed that we lost to ORU.

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

It sounds like some Bill lovers are self-conscience! Why would all these McDonald's All-Americans come to KU right? Why Kansas? Maybe we should just sweep all the skeletons under the rug and hope nobody notices. Just keep quiet because all of these big city kids picked KU! I don't think so! Self must go! The talent on the court can't be faulted, just Mr. Self!

KU beating Florida would be a nice win, but KU isn't playing Florida in the first round of the NCAA tournament!

Also, coaches are directly responsible with what happens on the court or field. You can't tell me Bob Huggins or Bill Snyder won't or didn't make a difference.

jayloco 13 years, 2 months ago

True fan-nice post. I too am a Royals/Chiefs/KU Football/KU BBALL fan. It has been a tough 18 years since we last celebrated a championship of any type. Here's hoping someone can get one sometime soon!

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

Bob Huggins? - get drunk, find players that are talent rich thugs, and sit back and watch them rule the playground. I like his strategy.

jayloco 13 years, 2 months ago

Nikesasquatch-You got one thing right. Hawks are gonna ROLL Freeman and the Mildcats on Saturday!!

kumaximus 13 years, 2 months ago

Bill's a fine coach. He will turn this team around. Let's not forget...we started last years 3-4 and then went onto the win the regular and tournament Big XII championships. These guys will learn from this loss and come March, this game will be a distant memory. If next week against Florida we get beat as bad as we did tonight, then I'll admit we're in trouble.

imagold 13 years, 2 months ago

Good to know there are so many qualified replacements for Bill Self on this site tonight. Chill out.

Enough of the Roy love. He left. Good riddance. Couldn't win "the big one" here but wins it at NC his second year, was it? Hmmmmm... Is he a better coach there than he was here or did he just have more desire?

I hate losing, too. We're all spoiled. This season is just starting. Lots of young kids. Complain to Lew about your high priced tickets. Does your ticket say you're guaranteed to see a win in Allen every game? I watched on tv for free (except for that cable bill). The result was the same.

And quit being lazy. Turn off the caps.

nikesasquatch 13 years, 2 months ago

Even though KSU beat Texas (which is good), I like KU's chances. Mangino has had two weeks to save his job!

Jay_lo 13 years, 2 months ago

OK, let's count our blessings and hope we never fall to the point where a Snyder or Huggins is needed to bring a dismal program out of the depths.

All in all, we're probably just a little too used to winning, and expect it every time. So maybe we slide a little once in a while, just somebody be sure to keep their eyes open so we don't end up rolling down hill to the bottom of the heap, like where some of those other programs were at.

Early day tomorrow, you guys have fun.

justdoit23 13 years, 2 months ago

Come the F down ppl!!!

I CAN'T WAIT TILL ALL THIS SELF HATERS JUMP ON SELF'S BAND WAGON IN POST SEASON.

THIS IS GANNA BE GREAT YR.

LOST TO BALL STATE AND WE WENT TO FINAL FOUR...

CHILL OUT NUT CASES......GUY SHOT 7-8 3'S

imagold 13 years, 2 months ago

Nike - sorry, read your caps post after I posted.

brett conrad 13 years, 2 months ago

Brandon Rush[ All American] Who are we kidding. He could not hold Heinrich's jock. Another Jaron Rush in the making. Brandon the WNBA is calling. Please leave early. Dear Bill; Take a lok in the mirror and say ""How can I, as coach of THE KANSAS JAYHAWKS GET BEAT AT HOME BY ORAL ROBERTS.

justdoit23 13 years, 2 months ago

THIS IS GANNA BE SO BIG THAT NOW KU IS NOT GANNA LOSE ANY GAMES!!!!

rockchalkAZ 13 years, 2 months ago

Wow. We lose one game and people want to fire the coach. The season is young, my friends. Firing the coach after two games is a ludicrous idea that any real follower of basketball would never think about doing. I'm glad to see that we have such loyal fans. Once again, it's only one game.

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

One of my worst sporting event memories.

KSU beats KU at Memorial Stadium and their fans ran out and tore down one of the goal post.

I remember thinking, "Who would try that in Manhattan." Not me.

jayloco 13 years, 2 months ago

imagold-Why not let people voice their opinions. You said you don't like it leave it at that.

Roy was the same coach there that he was here, but with a lot of talent on that Natl Championship team. Desire had nothing to do with it. The man cried every time he lost a tourney game for KU. He got a bunch of NBA talent to buy into a team mentality and they won a Natl Championship. Simple as that man.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the price of the tickets. A statement was made about people didn't pay $45 to watch them lose to ORU. The price of admission doesn't guarantee a win, but you would hope that you see a quality performance for your $45.

Or to put it in terms you might better understand imagold, when you pay a $1 for that double cheesburger, you hope you don't get one with a hair in it, ya dig?

moralebooster 13 years, 2 months ago

Post-season? What a joke as long as Self remains here. I say we cut him out now! Face reality - he's a terrible coach!

jayloco 13 years, 2 months ago

Bone777- WORD. I was there at that game bro'! Wasn't that 93 or 94 when Chad May was QBing for the Cats? A Thursday Night game as I recall. They won and they tore onto our field and snatched the goal post. Definitely a dark moment in KU football and KU Fan history. No one wanted any part of those good ol' boys from Manhattan..

rockchalkAZ 13 years, 2 months ago

Did anyone see 10th ranked Arizona lose to unranked Virginia their first game of the season? Well then I guess Lute Olson should be fired right away then right? NO. You guys who think Self should be sacked right now are, well, idiots.

youngitized 13 years, 2 months ago

KU played like crap. I am sick and freakin' tired of seeing this every gosh dang time! There was a tremendous amount in lack of effort. Pull it together boys and do it right now!

justdoit23 13 years, 2 months ago

Moralebooster!!!!!!!!! i got one question for ya!

Have you ever coached a bball team before??

Self was a coach of the yr in big 12 last yr. and he was still nominated for coach of the yr overall last yr. look what he brought to KU!

Stut up guys!!!!!!!! like i said we have only been thru two games!!!!!!!!

ONE MORE TIME!!! SHUT THE F UP ALL WHO WANAN FIRE SELF.

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

jayloco - I'm glad somebody remembers that. I hope that never happens again.

How true with the good ol' boys from Manhattan comment. It was a giant pack of cowboy hat, purple wearin', chew spitters, wranglin' down on the field.

As a matter of fact I think it was a lasso that started the goal post's demise.

Bone777 13 years, 2 months ago

justdoit23 has been in to the unhappy/typo sauce!

feefifofum 13 years, 2 months ago

Posted by jeffmaher (anonymous) on November 15, 2006 at 10:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Personally I think Self wanted our guys to get EXPOSED. He wants them to see if they don't get into position what can happen. It is called COACHING. Sometimes it is OK to lose to make a point. I am not saying Self wanted to lose- but it is OK at this juncture to not be so successful that your heads swell. This game film may be the most important piece of tape this team watches all year. "

Get the barf bucket out! This is fantasy logic - Self is not that crafty. That might be something Larry Brown might have done. Hell, Self already has this game on tape - just pull the BUCKNELL game off the shelf or maybe the RICHMOND game and let everybody watch that before every game. I know he is a quality coach - I just think his guys come out with a "lah de dah" attitude too often and they allow these teams to gain confidence and then can't pull it together at the end. I would like to think that this loss will help - but I just don't think it does much for us.

jayloco 13 years, 2 months ago

rockchalkAZ-true man. However, Virginia at least is a team from the ACC. I think if you ask most fans what conference ORU plays in, they would have a hard time coming up with the Mid Con!

moralebooster 13 years, 2 months ago

justdoit23,

I assume from your posts that you'd rather drink than think. Look at his record, for the talent he's had he's produced no results - he can't perform under pressure. Self is a HORRIBLE coach. He's got to go or we'll never get anywhere.

justdoit23 13 years, 2 months ago

yeah sorry i feel kinda sick right now!!

i think im ganna go throw up!!!

ptub23 13 years, 2 months ago

11-21 from the line. 24! 24 missed layups, watch the game and count them. They shot 60% from the three point line. I will never post on this site again except to bash Self if one person can tell me how you coach against that. Players play the game. Period. John Wooden couldn't have coached a win tonight, so the fire Self talk needs to stop. And just one more point, recruiting is not only as important, but probably more important than coaching. You can't coach scrubs and if my memory serves me right, Self has already brought in as many 5-star recruits to this campus than Roy did in his 14 years. Self is fine. KU is fine. Everything is fine, except for our fans

justdoit23 13 years, 2 months ago

We dont know anything yet!!

when we lost to bucknell it wasn't his team.

When he lost to Bradley we were young.

Give him some time damm it!!!

FireMarshall_Bill 13 years, 2 months ago

Wasn't his team? Funny how his replacement at Illinois took Self's team and won the championship. (They're glad he left) Then Self too a run'n gun team and slowed them down which took away their advantage - what a complete dope.

BRFitzpatrick07 13 years, 2 months ago

are you all kidding me? bill self is not a bad coach at all. roy williams was a good coach but leaving players behind like he did, leaving behind all of his mistakes putting us in a three year suspension breaking well-known NCAA violations. great coaching there roy. roy never won a national championship with KU so why is everyone ripping on self so quickly. this team is young. no seniors. were lacking a court leader right now. if we could get robinson or wright someone to step up and be a constant performer than that one guy will lead us to wher we need to be. the only problem i have is with matt kleinman getting in the game. if our big guys are that tired that we have to put kleinman into the game i suggest we just take a timeout. he brings absolutely nothing to the floor. no spark of energy, no offensive threat, not a defensive lockdown at all, i hate the announcers on tv more than anything in the world but what he said was right, "when green sees kleinman on his back he really just sees a green light" couldnt have been said better. ive always tried to be a fan of kleinman, heck i went to the same middle school as he did and he wasnt even the best player there. he didnt even stand out in the EKL which for basketball isnt a good league by any means. if he can walk on at KU it gives every white man hope. keep him on the bench closer to water cooler than the floor. give this team time and they will shine. i think after we get a few more wins and upset florida we will really be on the rise. people saying this team shouldnt be a top 25 team is absolutley absurd. this team has so much talent nobody knows its boundaries. quit being so negative after one loss, self will figure it out hes been around long enough to know how to fix things. rock chalk baby

Alison Roberts 13 years, 2 months ago

the people who are saying Self should be fired right now are acting like KSU fans... so snap out of it! Its just ONE game.... calm down.

justdoit23 13 years, 2 months ago

wow lost of KSU and Mu fans on Ku sports site today!!!

this is awesome!! i'm loving it!

bmkjayhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

I didn't read through all of these because there are just too many, so if someone already mentioned this I apologize. But, keep in mind that Roy Williams had what some might call a major choke in his very first regular season game of his second season at UNC, losing to I believe Santa Clara. If you're a fan, you know how Williams' season went the rest of the year.

Have faith. KU is going to be fine.

Fritz 13 years, 2 months ago

I remember the K-State fans tearing down the goal posts. It was right when their program was turning the corner, and the game ticket wasn't premium priced, so about 20,000 of 'em showed up. Having grown up in Manhappenin' during bad KSU football era (anytime from 1900 to 1994), that was a town that felt like the unloved little brother to the bigger, better and oh-so-smug about it Lawrence. The visitor's guide was peppered with things like "8th most historic buildings among towns under 30,000 in population west of the Mississippi River that were founded by non-Mormons". They were always salivating to be Somebodies with a capital S. That's why the purple everything wardrobe explosion has occured over there - they were dying to have something to stick their chests out about. Believe me, people were not wearing purple before the Snyder era.

One other thing - when the Michael J. Fox movie "The Secret of My Success" was filming, the production folks called up the K-State Union bookstore and ordered a passel of K-State gear because that was were Fox's character had gone to school. Alas, the bookstore had a ready supply as these weren't terribly popular at the time. The snickering heard in the faculty lounges at KSU was "Why would anyone want to wear evidence on their chest that they weren't smart enough to go to KU?"

pitthawker 13 years, 2 months ago

Nov. 19 Santa Clara L, 77-66

That was from earlier in the season of 2004-2005... It is what happened to North Carolina.

Can anyone remind me what happend to that team at the end of the year????? Anybody???

Fritz 13 years, 2 months ago

Lord, and people used to rip on Roy after he lost to the Long Beach States and Louisvilles and the unheralded K-States...at home...the night after they became ranked #1. Everybody bitched that Roy's teams had no halfcourt offense in games were they were slowed down by the other team, and that he didn't know how to get his teams to come from behind. Remember, the biggest deficit any Roy team ever came back from on the road to win was...4 points!

Our lack of true big men continues to be the soft underbelly for this team. That and the fact that in basketball, (unlike most other sports) when things start to go bad they tend to stay that way and vice versa. That kid who hit 7 of 8 threes? I seem to recall that Jeff Hawkins had a 4-5 night behind the arc once a year. It happens.

And these last two teams we've played are both expected to contend for their respective conference titles. If you go back and look at the teams Roy scheduled during November, he ALWAYS played teams that had gone 5-16, 3-18, etc. the previous year. He viewed those games as tuneups, and scheduled accordingly.

littlebaldy13 13 years, 2 months ago

Just relax this is only the second game of the season. Oral Roberts just played the better game. This will show us that we still have alot of work to do on offense as well as defense(Guard the three!). There are many more games to be played. This was just a set back. Plus how many of yall were complaining about when the season was going to get here because the football team was bad. What is the next line going to be "I cant wait for baseball season!"

badger 13 years, 2 months ago

Don't they usually wait until later in the season to start with the choking and the falling apart?

Guess they're just moving up their timetable this year...

deepind 13 years, 2 months ago

I have an eerie feeling that KU is going to play against Butler in the first round of the NCAA tournament!!

grayson1223 13 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, I like the Santa Clara comparison. These kinds of upsets happen frequently in college basketball, and they don't usually have anything to do with the outcome of a season.

While I agree it is never enjoyable when your team is the one that loses, we have to remember that mid-major teams on the whole have gotten a lot better, and upsets are becoming more common.

Does anyone remember a team called George Mason? They beat a few big-name schools as well.

Don't sweat tonight. I'm definitly hurting from it, but don't come to any rash conclusions. This team will bounce back, will win the big 12 season title, and will CERTAINLY advance past the first round of the tournament.

justdoit23 13 years, 2 months ago

NCAA committiee will do it on purpose deepind!

i'm sure we'll be playing Butler!

Alan Mills 13 years, 2 months ago

Wow, and someone questioned whether I was a fan last week! Do any of you know anything about basketball? KU got beat by a better team last night. So many of you say they were a "no good" team. Wrong. They've won their conference three years in a row. They are picked to win it again. They have the best player in their conference (maybe the top two after last night) in Green. They have a mid-major all-america in Green. They are well coached by the better Sutton son. We've all seen in recent years that mid-major teams can play with the big boys. We've been the victim two years in a row. Is our season lost? Not exactly. We'll improve. We're playing without our best post defender. We're playing with two freshmen who will need to mature. We're playing with a group of sophomores who clearly have allowed their pre-season press to go to their heads. Self commented that he was not pleased with the way we had practiced. Somebody said Self was tight during games. Give me a break. If anything, he might be a bit too willing to let the players decide the game. He brings them in and expects them to perform. When they don't, you want to fire the coach. How many of you walked around proclaiming our greatness yesterday? Yea, that's what I thought. We'll be fine...probably better for it. I'd still take KU over Florida on the 25th.

JayCeph 13 years, 2 months ago

3 years in a row (counting last night) and if KU can't get by the little mid-majors (no matter how good they are in their own leagues) then what does that say about the 'Hawks? I'll tell you... they are a mid-tier mid-major team that is spotty at best.

Is that what you honestly think about this team? If not, then don't 'explain-away' a loss like this. KU needed to and should have beat that team. They didn't. There are no excuses for this!

No two ways around it. NO MORE RICHMONDS! NO MORE BALL STATES! NO MORE BRADLEYS! NO MORE ORUs!!

JayhawknAggie 13 years, 2 months ago

Basketball is a complex game....College basketball in particular...I've been a Jayhawk fan all my life and have gone through the emotional ups and downs with the rest of you. One thing that you must remember that ORU beating Kansas, although extremely disappointing, is what makes the college game so great...George Mason reaching the final 4, Wichita State in the sweet 16! That's the beauty of college basketball, any given team can win on any given night regardless of the talent level, It's about the passion and the heart of the players at that given time, Unfortunately these upsets have been at the dismay of the Jayhawks recently.... ORU played outta their minds and Kansas played terrible...It's early in the season don't get down on them yet, they're gonna be fantastic this year! Rock Chalk Jayhawk KU!

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