Sunday, October 15, 2017


Tom Keegan: Clock tick, tick, ticking on Kansas AD Sheahon Zenger

Kansas athletic director Sheahon Zenger shows frustration after a penalty called against the Jayhawks during the second quarter on Saturday, Oct. 14, 2017 at Jack Trice Stadium in Ames, Iowa.

Kansas athletic director Sheahon Zenger shows frustration after a penalty called against the Jayhawks during the second quarter on Saturday, Oct. 14, 2017 at Jack Trice Stadium in Ames, Iowa.


David Beaty has the second half of his third season to prove he has made progress with the Kansas football program, but D-Day comes earlier for the man making the call on Beaty’s boss, athletic director Sheahon Zenger.

A generous estimate for that timetable is two weeks. Here’s why: Kansas needs ample time to search for a new athletic director who then will make the call on Beaty at season’s end. Zenger can’t objectively do that because there can be no ending Beaty’s tenure without first replacing Zenger, who can’t be trusted again with hiring a football coach.

Zenger's contract calls for a $1.4 million buyout, Beaty's for $3.2 million.

Those who will have influence in selecting the next AD should be making calls already with the aim of putting together a preliminary list of potential successors, just in case.

The danger of leaving Zenger in place even if Beaty is brought back for a fourth year is that both men would be in win-now mode, not program-building mode. It would not be in Zenger’s selfish interests to stop Beaty from recruiting a load of junior-college players, shoving all his chips in on next season and ignoring the future in hopes of staying in office.

Zenger’s three football hires, Charlie Weis, interim Clint Bowen (eight games, all in Big 12) and Beaty, have combined to go 10-56 overall, 5-55 vs. FBS schools and 3-45 in the Big 12. As frightening as the Big 12 mark looks, it’s actually not as embarrassing as a 2-10 record vs. other FBS schools, including a 1-4 mark vs. MAC members.

Numbers, even the combined score of 110-19 in losses to Texas Tech and Iowa State, can’t quite capture the embarrassment of the past two weeks’ performances, rife with sloppy, unforced turnovers.

And now this: Nebraska introduced Washington State’s Bill Moos as its new AD on Sunday, a little salt for furious KU football fans given that Moos has an in with Mike Leach. If Leach isn’t NU’s next football coach, born winner and former Cornhuskers quarterback Scott Frost, who inherited a Central Florida program coming off an 0-12 record in 2015, went to a bowl game in 2016 and is off to a 5-0 start and ranked No. 20, certainly has the right credentials.

Nebraska had a head start on Kansas, but also showed an athletic director can be hired swiftly, but not so swiftly that KU can afford to wait more than two weeks at the most to put the wheels in motion.

Then again, it’s always possible Kansas can reign over purple the next two weeks, at least give No. 4 TCU a game and defeat K-State for the first time since 2008, when Mark Mangino beat the Wildcats for the fourth time in five seasons.

The flip side of that two-week coin is that KU takes a Horned Flogging on prime-time TV (7 p.m. kickoff), followed by another one-sided loss to Bill Snyder. I shudder to imagine the mood of KU football fans should that happen.

These are tense times for KU Athletics.


Jeff Coffman 4 years, 11 months ago

You sold me on Scott Frost...another coach that proves that you don't rebuild programs, you win.

Thank goodness for a reasonable buyout this time around.

[''] 4 years, 11 months ago

No way Frost comes to Kansas - NU maybe. But even then is MUCH easier it to recruit to ANY college Florida as opposed to Kansas.

Titus Canby 4 years, 11 months ago

Didn't we already hire a former Nebraska quarterback as HC?

Aaron Paisley 4 years, 11 months ago

UCF was 9-4 in 2014 and beat Baylor in the Fiesta Bowl in 2013 before their 0-12 season in 2015. Scott Frost inherited a much different situation than David Beaty did. UCF's 0-12 tear was a fluke unlike KU's 0-12 season.

Frederick Heckel 4 years, 11 months ago

Would Girod be willing to do the right thing though?

Bryce Landon 4 years, 11 months ago

If enough donors and boosters make it clear they won't give any more money to KU until Zenger and Beaty are removed, then yes.

Freedman Moor 4 years, 11 months ago

Perhaps this is a testament to the brand recognition built primarily by the basketball program, I find interesting that KU is incapable of losing quietly. You would think a program with such a long history of futility would be able to go unnoticed but that's just not the case. Every time a coach gets hired/fired, the college sports world seems to notice. I've been wondering if programs are just noticing or are they paying attention. Former Ohio State HC, John Cooper, referred to KU as "a sleeping giant".

Freedman Moor 4 years, 11 months ago

Couple things:

  1. I still think dumping Beaty (now) would be bad (if not disastrous) for the program by scaring off top-shelf talent. No one wants to be KU's next former coach.

  2. Im a personal trainer and I see incredible talent being wasted in Wyandotte County. There is some SERIOUS speed in them there hills, but the high schools are bereft of leadership and direction and KU has an awful reputation there. I hope someone at KU takes the initiative to help establish more leadership in WyCo to make inroads with the local talent.

Jay Hawkinson 4 years, 11 months ago

I think they absolutely have to let Beaty finish out the season. If they didn't, it would be three consecutive coaches who received less than three full years.

Marius Rowlanski 4 years, 11 months ago

Umm... What top-shelf talent are you referring to?

Brett McCabe 4 years, 11 months ago

Forgot about Frost. If NU went that direction, would that put Leach in play, sense the guy who hired him would be gone?

I think some of the commenters on this site need to call Frost him and tell him that it takes five years to turn around an 0-12 football program, maybe make it a conference call with Matt Campbell. These guys clearly don't know the rules of how to lift up a football team.

Now that KSU is stumbling, count on them to try and score a 100 in Lawrence in two weeks. Also watch out for a Snyder announcement. If he goes, they'll get a high quality coach, which means another one is off the table.

Here's why being quick, as Keegan suggests, is important. Nebraska, Tennessee, possibly Mizzou, Arkansas, etc. all need coaches. They will all get first pick of best-quality candidates, which means those guys will need to be replaced. You don't want to wind up in that swirling mess.

Replace Zenger, get Beaty fired with a couple of weeks remaining and get a jump on Craig Bohl. Now. Not tomorrow.

Doug Cramer 4 years, 11 months ago

Would Leach leave Wazzou to come here though ?

Brett McCabe 4 years, 11 months ago

A long shot but I heard a coach once say that a new AD is never a welcome sight when you were hired by someone else. Leach might make the move if the money were right.

Barry Weiss 4 years, 11 months ago

Leach would be awesome. He may want to come back to the b-12, but then again, our conference is not seen as stable as the Pac.

Randy Bombardier 4 years, 11 months ago

Dont think Bohl is the answer. He's not enhanced his reputation at Wyoming.

I think we still give Beaty more time but start looking. I'd watch 2 NU guys, Solich, Pelini, several Kansas natives come to mind, then of course NC States Doeren. But i think it would be possible to bring back Mangino in some capacity. Perhaps consulting head Coach, ops director or something that coaches up Beaty. Invest in Beaty, invest in Mangino. Then if Beaty still can't get it done, let Mangino take over if interested. If we have to start all over we will have demonstrated how much we want to see our coach be successful.

Andy Tweedy 4 years, 11 months ago

Dude! Frank Solich is 73 years old and was ran out of Nebraska partly cuz he was chasing the coeds around campus. Pelini is one of the world's surliest creatures, and Mark Mangino didn't exactly have a great reputation as a nice guy. Are you sure you want those guys? I live in Omaha, and can tell you very few people around here miss those first two names.

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 11 months ago

KU needs a disciplinarian. Is Nick Saban nice? Is Mike Leach nice? Is Urban Meyer nice? Are most good football coaches nice? Not really. So I could care less about "nice".

Chris Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago

Nice? Who gives a $hit? You think being nice wins football games? Sorry but winners are demanding! You think Self is always "nice"? Not a chance.

Bryce Landon 4 years, 11 months ago

I've seen clips of KU practices on ESPN in the past, and Self is pretty salty with his players at times. His approach usually works.

Chris Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago

Oh I have no doubt he is. As are most successful coaches. Not many coaches are sit back and be reserved kind of people.

Len Shaffer 4 years, 11 months ago

Yes, but I'm guessing that Self never made fun of a player's dad who was an alcoholic, or a player's brother who had been shot, and he never threw anything at a secretary. A person can be tough and a disciplinarian without being an a-hole; there IS a difference. Unfortunately, Mangino consistently crossed that line with everybody.

The key is to find someone who doesn't cross the line.

All that being said, if Mangino has truly changed as he seems to indicate -- and that's a HUGE if -- I wouldn't mind him coming back as offensive coordinator. I just wouldn't want to see him be the head coach again.

Lynn Stuart 4 years, 11 months ago

i have been quiet a long time, but I am so sick of these people saying Mangino crossed the line, were on the field to hear this so called abuse? probably not they heard it from some where so stop with it, Fam was brought back loved him knew him but wasnt the greatest coach so BRING BACK MANGINO

Joe Ross 4 years, 11 months ago

"Nice" is the last thing KU needs. We've had nice. Gill and Beaty come to mind. That didn't work out for us so well. Kansas needs fire. Not "nice".

Chris Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago

Agree 100% Joe. Nice doesn't win football games.

Cora Smith 4 years, 11 months ago

Does Keegan have a source or is he speculating?

Michael Maris 4 years, 11 months ago

With all due respect, I'm sure that Keegan has more resources than the majority of us posting on this board have access to.

Jerry Walker 4 years, 11 months ago

And remember that the same reporter with all the resources and smarts is the same guy who championed Bender as the QB to solve our woes and lead a re-tooled offense.

Mike Nicco 4 years, 11 months ago

I'm betting a source. He's the Sports Editor of the hometown newspaper. He's crafty and knows how to make the correct connections. Taking David Booth at his word, plenty of other big donors want to influence KU Athletics. Furthermore, we've been down this road before with Gill and Weis. Mr. Keagan's writing style reflects his smelling blood in the water.

Chris Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago

Nice assessment sir! Sounds pretty spot on and I'm betting Keagan knows something is coming. I'd be willing to lay money that if we don't have a W on the board the next two weeks SZ is gone and Beaty may be not too far behind him. Both are clearly in over their heads. And Zinger being a football guy is almost laughable at this point. He clearly can't see talent in a coach to save his own skin.

Jeff Foster 4 years, 11 months ago

Hey now, hey now. We've got a new updated stadium to build. That'll fix it all, just be patient.

Larry Jackson 4 years, 11 months ago

Bo Pelini! He should have been selected before Gill in the first place. He has displayed the fire, and commitment of a Mangino. Pelini would NOT be as accepting of these blow out loses as Beaty. In our circumstance Pelini might suit up himself and play defense & offense just to set the tone for toughness, which we lack in abundance. Nebraska has made as many coaching blunders as KU. But letting Pelini go was their biggest.

Mike Bennett 4 years, 11 months ago

Look, this wash, rinse, repeat method of changing coaches is ridiculous. You can't build anything changing coaches every 3 years. You tell a coach it is a 5 year rebuilding project and fire after 3. You keep doing that and no one believes you when you say it is a 5 yr rebuild. If they can't get Leach, then hold tight for another year. Biggest issues are Beaty can't identify O-linemen or D-linemen and has stayed loyal with Bowen too long.

Joe Black 4 years, 11 months ago

In a five year rebuild, you should expect to see progress by year three. That is not the case at all at KU. You are right that Beaty has stayed loyal for way too long to with Bowen. To me Beaty and Bowen are the same person. They are great motivators but not particularly good coaches. I like the messages they are sending the kids but ultimately they have to show results i.e. Wins. Having said all that, I believe it is time to go after a coach like a Scott Frost (although he did have the advantage of recruiting in Florida, much more fertile football area than Kansas).

Gary McCullough 4 years, 11 months ago

Changing coach/AD is suicide. This coaching merry-go-round is killing the football program. Patience people! If you need to rail on about something, try something really important, like global climate change.

Aaron Paisley 4 years, 11 months ago

Yes, let's continue changing coaches every 3-4 years like KU has done throughout most of its history post WWII. This strategy has clearly been highly successful for KU during the past 70 years.

Len Shaffer 4 years, 11 months ago

The bigger problem has been HIRING a lousy coach every 3-4 years, not firing one ...

Brian Skelly 4 years, 11 months ago

I just dont know how Zenger keeps his job. It's not about liking him or not. People are worried about disrupting the apple cart in regards to the stadium renovations? The inertia of that (if you can even call it that after being decades overdue) will happen. Regardless of who's in charge in the the AD (it's really Bill Self anyway).

I've never heard of any P-5 AD's who's made three football coach hire. Maybe there are some out there. I dont think we can afford the luxury of doing that.

Bryce Landon 4 years, 11 months ago

Why not ask Bill Self to be AD as well as coach? He's an empty nester, what with Lauren and Tyler graduated from KU, and even though he's a basketball guru, he can't do any worse in hiring a football coach.

Andy Tweedy 4 years, 11 months ago

Man, being an empty nester is awesome! I just got there and young enough to still have lots of fun!!! He'd be crazy to take on the grief of trying to resurrect KU football!!!

Humpy Helsel 4 years, 11 months ago

Not sure about Bill Self as AD, but if this happens, and I get it that it probably will (there will be purple mixed with KU crimson blood smeared together the next two weeks), whoever is hired must have Self's blessing as his new boss. You have to always take care of your #1 asset because if that relationship ever soured and you lose that, things just got much, much worse. The worrisome thing from the game this past Saturday would suggest the team has quit playing for their coach. Hope that isn't the case because it would be worst case scenario for a football team with a lot of football left to play. I think a previous post is right. Keegan is working his sources and there is blood in the water.

John Fitzgerald 4 years, 11 months ago

I keep trying to tell myself "Beaty needs at least 5 years to rebuild the program", "we're still below the 85 scholarship mark", "we can't let go of Beaty and Zenger because of the new stadium project", and lastly "who would want to even coach KU if we did fire Beaty". But after the last two games, I think I've settled on a few things:

1.) As Brett has pointed out, and I've stubbornly disagreed in the recent past, it DOES NOT take 5 years to rebuild a program. See UCF, UAB, Washington State, ISU, etc. If progress isn't being made in year 3, will it ever be made?

2.) Per an article by Tom or Benton, I can't quite remember who, Beaty mentions we're at 84 scholarships now. That is no longer an excuse even if a chunk of those were walk-on's.

3.) As Tom has mentioned, the new stadium is going to happen regardless if Zenger and Beaty are around, because it NEEDS to happen. They may have helped get the ball rolling, but a fresh new face at AD and HC won't hurt or stop it.

4.) I've said "no coach in their right mind would want to coach KU Football" to myself plenty of times lately, and it's starting to not make sense anymore. One thing about Beaty is he has filled this roster and it's definitely at a better place as far as the talent level, meaning it won't be an issue for the new coach coming in. Also, the new stadium has to be exciting for anyone interested in coaching KU. They can be the one to introduce it and the first to coach one of the best stadiums and locations in CFB. And finally, there is a lot of money being left on the table with KU Football. It's a matter of time before a coach comes here and is successful and can reap the benefits. Kansas doesn't have to be a "career crippler" it can just as easily be a "career maker" if we can hire a competent coach.

So, needless to say, I'm okay with whatever it takes to get this program back in the win column. But whatever happens it needs to happen soon so we can have a jump on the other programs that'll be needing coaches.

Jay Hawkinson 4 years, 11 months ago

Yes, Beaty is definitely leaving the program in better shape than he found it. That's why I was okay with the hire. He was an unknown on the coaching side, but I was pretty confident he'd do okay on the recruiting and roster management side.

The question is whether there is much talent among those 85 players and this staff has simply failed to develop it, or did he fill it out with guys that wouldn't be on scholarship anywhere else? Even if it's the latter, that's probably better than having half the roster empty.

Chris DeWeese 4 years, 11 months ago

I agree. I thought it might actually take 8-10 years to "rebuild" this program. But after looking around the nation, it's painfully obvious it doesn't have to take that long. At the very least, Beaty has succeeded in filling the cupboards left bare by Weis. He has generated a lot of interest in the football program. Unfortunately, he hasn't really brought in a load of talent that was promised. And he hasn't generated wins, the best indicator of success. I'm afraid he's simply in over his head, which is now understandable given he's never been a head coach before. It seems that quality was minimized during his hiring process. Whatever the reasons, it's apparent this regime's efforts aren't working..

Chris Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago

Well I agree partly but the cupboards won't be left stocked it and when he leaves. We always lose players to transfer when a new coach comes in because of discipline or whatever reason. Does this mean that we are all still bad fans if we aren't behind him anymore? I believe you were one of the vocal ones yelling the loudest about that. That's rhetorical of course. It's painfully obvious he is in over his head and Zenger has no clue what he's doing as an AD.

Len Shaffer 4 years, 11 months ago

Very well said, John, and I agree with pretty much all of it.

Others have said, "Well sure, the cupboard will be more stocked, but how many of those players have talent." You can't always go by recruiting, but the fact that a lot of the players were recruited by other decent (and sometimes good) programs tells me that the issue is much more about a lack of developing players than not having good enough players to begin with.

On top of that, there has been nothing in Beaty's game management to indicate that he's great in that area either.

Let's see what happens in the next couple of weeks, but I'm certainly not holding my breath.

Andy Tweedy 4 years, 11 months ago

I have a question. Would you guys embrace a guy like Art Briles? That dude can clearly coach, but man would he bring lots of baggage. I guess I'm not just asking about Briles, but where would fans of a constantly downtrodden program like ours. Beaty is a guy I'd trust with my kids, but it doesn't seem to be working.

Humpy Helsel 4 years, 11 months ago

I get the thought, Andy. But It ain't going to happen. It would surely make national headlines and bring the program a great deal of fast notoriety, just not the kind we need right now.

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 11 months ago

Well, Washington State hired Leach, the fired "abuser" of Craig James' son. Nobody cares about that anymore. The opinions of the masses is fickle. If KU hired Briles, we'd see a bunch of stuff about "how could KU be so low to hire that guy", and then in 2 years time nobody would talk about it nor care.

Aaron Paisley 4 years, 11 months ago

The Briles and Leach situations are not even in the same galaxy. Art Briles was indifferent at best in allowing multiple women at Baylor to be raped by his players and did nothing about it and likely helped cover it up. Art Briles should never be allowed on a college campus again.

John Fitzgerald 4 years, 11 months ago

In my opinion, I don't think he'd even be an option, but if he was I wouldn't be mad if we hired him. He brought Baylor from nothing to a power house even though he tore that house down with his negligence. Regardless this program needs a change ASAP.

Len Shaffer 4 years, 11 months ago

Oh John, I'm so disappointed.

In one breath, you write a great analysis, and then in another one you write this garbage.

I would sooner root for Misuse than have Art Briles at KU, no matter HOW successful he was. There's NO room on campus for a coach who covers up multiple rapes (or ANY rapes, for that matter). Maybe it's expecting a lot to have someone with the character of Beaty and at least decent coaching chops, but I still think that person is out there.

John Fitzgerald 4 years, 11 months ago

I think you're letting your delusion cloud your judgement. Saying I wouldn't be 'mad' by the hire means nothing more than that. Also note, I wouldn't be overly excited and I wouldn't immediately decide to write in my donation for the new stadium. But it's undeniable he has proven to re build a program, so there is that. At the end of the day I'm not an expert, I don't know what will save this program. But what I do know is that it needs saving.

Lawrence McGlinn 4 years, 11 months ago

Nothing is worth saving enough to bring in Briles.

Joe Ross 4 years, 11 months ago

The answer to your question is that Kansas can't afford to look gift horses in the mouth.

If you can get Briles here, do it. He rebuilt Baylor.

Gavin Fritton 4 years, 11 months ago

if Art Briles "rebuilt" Baylor football (which I agree with, BTW), then you have to also "credit" him for sowing the seeds of Baylor's destruction. He did well there, but at the cost of the future, the already-damaged reputation of the school and the millions of dollars the university will eventually pay out in settlements with women who were raped by members of the football tam and had those crimes covered up.

KU already has its own problems with potential Title IX violations and suits against the University stemming from rapes committed by the football team. Art Briles is dangerous for a school with a "clean" reputation. To KU, already dealing with some of these issues, he would be positively TOXIC.

Joe Ross 4 years, 11 months ago

Disagreement can be amicable. Tell me how I do here:

  1. There is nothing set in stone about a person having committed prior errors in committing them again. With the white-hot lights being focused on Art Briles, if he were hired anywhere else I think 95% of reasonable people would find it somewhere in the minds to begin to understand that he would be more careful at a subsequent university than he was at Baylor, especially considering the weight of what transpired there.

  2. The undesirable nature of where Kansas currently is might well mean that we have to accept some undesirable scenarios to reach desirable results. I'm good with that knowledge.

  3. I truly believe Briles would accept a shorter-term contract than what would be usually due given that even he must be aware of the nervousness schools would have about him. This mitigates any concerns we might have about keeping a persona non grata around in the event that issues arise.

Mike Nicco 4 years, 11 months ago

When Mr. Keagan starts floating Briles name then you'll have chance at seeing this played out. Otherwise, I say he has about zero chance. Do you think the administration would allow it? Do you think Bill Self allows that kind of negative exposure? Would our big donors want to be associated with a guy who let that atrocity occur under his watch. How desperate and unaware would our "flyover country" reputation appear to the rest of the country.
Somebody here convince me how Briles repairs his reputation and how KU spins such a hire.

Gavin Fritton 4 years, 11 months ago


That was indeed amicable and, yes, we do disagree. Let's see if I can continue being amicable.

  1. You're right, of course, that there is nothing that says that Briles would be somehow required to commit the same violations again. But he rebuilt Baylor recruiting that kind of team and covering up their many transgressions. Why do we think he knows the first thing about building or rebuilding a team without resorting to those same tactics? What in his history makes us think that we could hire him and that he would have any success if we told him that he and his team get a "zero tolerance" policy for any activities that are unlawful?

Additionally, I'm not sure I understand why anyone would think that he would be "more careful" at a subsequent university than he was at Baylor. Was Dave Bliss? Was Rick Pitino? I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but can you think of any college coaches that were successful but scandalous and then more successful later without the scandal? I can't. Maybe Calipari and dear lord it hurts to say that, but he has, by all appearances, been better at Kentucky than he was at UMass or Memphis. And do we want a guy like Calipari?

  1. Maybe. You haven't outlined the "undesirable scenarios" you would be willing to accept. Does he recruit knuckleheads who can be potentially great players like Aqib Talib and Dana Stubblefield? Sure, I'm okay with that if he can maintain the necessary discipline like Mason and Mangino did over their players. But if you consider rape and cover-ups in criminal investigation, both things it appears happened under Briles, to be an acceptable "undesirable scenario," then you've lost me. I am NOT comfortable with that.

  2. You're probably right that he would accept a shorter contract. But if he can't win while having a "no rape, no lawlessness" restriction on him or his team, then what's the point? I also disagree with you that it would mitigate "any" concerns we might have about him. We might not have to buy him off with millions of dollars, but if our reputation takes a hit, if parents stop sending their daughters to KU and if we have to settle Title IX lawsuits for millions of dollars, hiring Briles hasn't really saved us anything, has it?

Joe Ross 4 years, 11 months ago

  1. Kelvin Sampson, Jerry Tarkanian, Larry Brown, others.

Due to the above, Id be willing to accept "undesirable" scenarios of Briles and Mangino here. Good coaches who still have something to offer.

You have not established that Briles can't win with what you call a "no rape, no lawlessness" restriction, but you take it for granted and use it to your advantage despite lack of support. In fairness it's a question mark to both of us. That's the reality, and so I don't take it for granted that our reputation takes a hit. In fact, and as Ive said elsewhere with others, vindication is as good a motivation as any to stay on the right path. And if that is not enough, the scandals that have come to light recently in both football and basketball, being policed now by more than the NCAA will certainly reinforce good behavior.

But we did manage to keep this respectable! Kudos...

Gavin Fritton 4 years, 11 months ago

And kudos to you too.


Sampson came back from scandal only in the technical sense. He was breaking rules at Oklahoma and managed to get out of town on the last stage before the law showed up. Indiana said that they'd never have hired him if they'd known what he was running from at OU. Because of his conduct at IU, he was given a five-year show cause penalty and is now at Houston where he hasn't done much of anything, at least not yet.

In my opinion, Larry Brown wasn't really "scandal," at least not at the level of a guy like Briles. Yes, he broke rules, but there was no pervasive attitude of lawlessness as at Baylor.

Tarkanian was pretty much a constant scandal his entire career but he ended his time with UNLV after too many scandals and he never came back from them.

The overarching theme for all of them is that after they got hammered, none of them was the same coach as they were before they got hammered except possibly Tarkanian and he was successful only because he kept cheating.

Regarding your undesirable scenarios, I am with you on being willing to accept more of the same from Mangino, although I am not convinced that he has more to offer.

As you say, what Briles could do is a question mark for both of us. Briles has never done it before without the lawlessness. I don't believe that there is any reason to assume he can. You do. That's fair. But I think it's an absolute that we would take a guaranteed hit, at least short term, from a reputational perspective. Even if Briles can run a successful straight program, we would get nothing but bad press for months until Briles proved he had done it.

In any case, it's been a fun and good discussion and I appreciate you keeping it civil.

[''] 4 years, 11 months ago

Guys - c'mon! Briles did WAAAYYY more than just be mean to a player. He fostered an atmosphere of cheating and sexual abuse and thuggery that NO ONE should want. Way better choices. And don't say Leavitt. He did a great coaching job but is a cheat and a liar and plays the nasty fringes until he'd get caught again. Doeren or bust! Maybe Calhoun.

Derek King 4 years, 11 months ago

I hear you, but Art Briles' "baggage" is radioactive. Having lived in Dallas for about 15 years, the dirty laundry that I've heard aired on him (both from his days as a HS coach and the crap that has come out from his Baylor tenure) makes him untouchable.

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 11 months ago

Here's my 2 cents. I watched Mangino's 2005 KU team destroy Art Briles' Houston team in the Fort Worth Bowl. And, by the way, Mangino's QB that year was not Todd Reesing. It was Jason Swanson. Proof that Mangino was a good coach and not just a lucky man whose success was made by Reesing. So my vote would be for Mangino over Briles.

Marius Rowlanski 4 years, 11 months ago

Louisville brought in Bobby Petrino who has almost as much baggage as Art Briles but do we really want that win at all cost program at KU?

Brett McCabe 4 years, 11 months ago

Randy, Bohl went 8-6 at Wyoming last year and is 4-2 this year. If anything, he’s bolstered his credentials while at Wyoming.

Waylon Cook 4 years, 11 months ago

Isn't easy to win at Wyoming. He has won in 2 smaller population density states than Kansas. Let him run this ship.

Chris DeWeese 4 years, 11 months ago

...against Mountain West opponents. I'm not sure if he'd be able to succeed against B12 opponents. He's 18-26 at Wyoming.

Daniel Kennamore 4 years, 11 months ago

At this point, being able to beat Mountain West opponents would be a vast improvement for us.

Brett McCabe 4 years, 11 months ago

8-6 and 4-2 the last two years. He's in the midst of rebuilding the program. The right way.

Waylon Cook 4 years, 11 months ago

So he is winning against the teams on his schedule. That seems too logical, we need to hire a guy fired at Notre Dame or maybe a WR coach that is nice?

Marius Rowlanski 4 years, 11 months ago

As opposed to hiring a coach fired from a different school?

[''] 4 years, 11 months ago

Let's add Zenger's other hire and his pathetic record to the mix. Schneider has been a huge bust. Let's do the math on the combo W-L of all coached Zenger has hired, not just fball. He has been floating on the success of Self for too long now.

Bryce Landon 4 years, 11 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

[''] 4 years, 11 months ago

Don't agree with your slamming of KU fans point was that ANOTHER Zenger hire has floundered...terribly. He should not be choosing anymore coaches for KU.

Bryce Landon 4 years, 11 months ago

Not slamming KU fans specifically, I'm talking junk about fans of that so-called sport in general.

Joe Ross 4 years, 11 months ago

I ask the good Lord's grace that I never be allowed to be as cantankerous as you proudly boast.

Please Jesus.

Marius Rowlanski 4 years, 11 months ago

Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else..

Just saying.

Waylon Cook 4 years, 11 months ago

Schneider is currently out recruiting every Big 12 school but Baylor and Texas for 2018. He went toe to toe with Tennessee, A and M and Baylor in 2017(those teams are only team prior to this year to have titles other than UConn since 2000.) Where were you doing the 10 years of mediocrity that Bonnie had? Stfu.

Robert Brock 4 years, 11 months ago

Zenger has to go. He has failed miserably. Let the new AD figure things out.

Brandon Pope 4 years, 11 months ago

Robert: don’t be ignorant.

I have to believe that our OC will at least be considered. He hasn’t come in an revitalized the offense with his air raid system and I have questioned his play calling as well. Though not as much as Beaty’s when he was calling the shots. I wouldn’t like it, but he will be on the list.

Brandon Pope 4 years, 11 months ago

Sorry Robert. I meant Bryce.

Bryce: don’t be ignorant.

Bryce Landon 4 years, 11 months ago

To the contrary, it's ignorant to think that there's anything interesting about women's basketball.

Len Shaffer 4 years, 11 months ago

Bryce, Bryce, Bryce ...

I'm not a big fan of women's basketball personally (although I have been more of one in the past, especially when Lynette Woodard was at KU), but I would NEVER say it's ignorant to find it interesting. What IS ignorant is calling the opinions of others ignorant on something like that. Everyone has a right to enjoy what they want to enjoy without being insulted by someone who doesn't like the same thing. Brandon is absolutely right.

Mick Dupas 4 years, 11 months ago

Keep Beatty rest of this year and next...Fire Zenger ASAP....

Chris Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago

What gives anyone a small thought that we have ANY chance to win or even make either of these next two games close? If we don't lose by 40 each week it will shock me!

John Brazelton 4 years, 11 months ago

Once again, Tom Keegan is a Sports Director at a small town newspaper, who is probably is lucky to make $50K a year, and who changes his opinion about KU sports as often as the Kansas wind changes direction. Who spent the entire spring and summer writing articles about Bender as QB and Meacham as OC as the second coming of Christ! Who wrote glowing articles about Armstrong and Wise as national quality defensive linemen. Now that things aren't going well with KU football, he turns directions and trashes the program, the AD (who he couldn't hold a candle to), the HC and his assistants. Had previous Chancellors, ADs and Big-Cat Donors not waited on previous football coaches, we would have never had Mason, Fambrough or Mangino as successful coaches. Also during those years, KU didn't have to play OU and Texas every year. How about all you football experts (you must all make tons of money as coaching consultants!) wait until the season is over before you go off the rails. There's an old saying, Money Talks, S**t Walks! When the Big Money Donors want a change, one will happen.

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 11 months ago

KU football is a total joke nation-wide. Since you don't like hearing Keegan, listen to what has to say:

Things are getting Very Damn Stupid at the University of Kansas and we write that because KU AD Sheahon Zenger has hired two head football coaches….Charlie Weis and David Beaty….and their combined records the last SIX seasons stands at:

Overall: 9 – 49

Big 12: 2 – 38

Geez….can someone explain to us how Kansas AD Sheahon Zenger is still employed in Lawrence?

Oh…current Kansas head coach David Beaty’s records are now…

Overall: 3 – 27

Big 12: 1 – 20

..and the 1 – 5 Jayhawks still have to play in 2017….

Kansas State
At Texas
Oklahoma State

…which looks to us like a 1 – 11 record in Beaty’s THIRD season on the job

John Fitzgerald 4 years, 11 months ago

It's embarrassing...but kinda hilarious at the same time.

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 11 months ago

...continued from

Can ANY head football coach and the AD that hired him survive the above records?

Not in the Real World but is the University of Kansas part of the Real World?

Not really it seems!

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 11 months ago

Sorry about the HTML, it renders fine on the desktop site, but not on the mobile one.

Len Shaffer 4 years, 11 months ago

John, you're so off base it's not even funny.

I'm not a Mangino fan because of the abuse issues, but in terms of coaching it wasn't necessary to be that patient, as he showed clear progress from the beginning. And Mason also showed progress relatively quickly.

Finally, as for Fambrough, no one could ever question his love of and loyalty to KU, or his hatred for Misuse, but it would be a stretch to say he was a "successful" coach. He had a couple of decent seasons (basically one during each of his terms at KU) but was not a good coach at all. I was there for a portion of his second stint at KU, and one thing I remember was being down by 7 with under 2 minutes to go and no timeouts left (I believe it was against OU, but I could be wrong on that). KU had a fourth-and-10 on its own 20 and Fambrough punted the ball. OU didn't put anyone back to return it, and when they got the ball they were easily able to run out the clock. There was simply NO excuse for Fambrough giving up at that point, and it infuriated me. When asked about it afterwards, he said that OU had fumbled a punt once and he thought they might do it again. Apparently he didn't consider the possibility of them not putting anyone back to receive.

And that was just one of countless examples of Fambrough not being a good coach. I loved the guy as a KU ambassador but I DIDN'T love him as a coach.

Skyler Owen 4 years, 11 months ago

I think everyone is forgetting that FEAR is the number 1 motivator in football....maybe that's why mangino was so successful here but we dang sure don't show no fear on the fear of messing up no fear of missing an assignment no fear of losing a's embarrassing...somebody has to be held accountable and these players should be held accountable and at this moment there not.....they have been taught for the last 5 years "next play" and its just a freakin's not the process or more time.......we need somebody to come in here and play some Damn ball !!!

Skyler Owen 4 years, 11 months ago

I'm sick and tired of patting everybody on the frickin back....cmon beaty you learned under the PHAT MAN!!!! It's the same rules as parenting your not their to be their friends take a stand and lead these young men !!!! They need you now more than ever !

Sam Walters 4 years, 11 months ago

I could not agree more. I've been saying this same exact thing to anyone who would listen the last two years. If you (as a player) "like" your football coach, then you don't have a very good football coach. You should respect your coach and in a lot of ways fear your coach, but your coach shouldn't be your buddy. A good football coach after that game in Ames, would've told those players, "no headphones, no laughing, and no talking if it's not about football for the entire bus/ plane ride back to Lawrence. And oh btw practice all next week is GOING TO SUCK for you!".

Derek King 4 years, 11 months ago

Yep. A friend (who was a 2-year walk-on immediately post-Mangino) said that Mangino's M.O. was to bring the team together, unifying all of them AGAINST him. He was far from likable, but when you occasionally go out and hang 70 on Nebraska and beat Mizzou/K-State, the players can at least see the fruits for themselves. We just have nothing tangible to point to as actual progress right now, assuming we're actually improving.

Danny Delgadillo 4 years, 11 months ago

Here would be my top option.

1) How about Dave Aranda (LSU)? He is ready to be a HC. We need a real defensive coach, especially in this conference. We have some offensive talent, and a decent OC. I also believe that if Aranda came, that would shore up our Louisianna recruits and position us for more. He might also bring Kelvin Joesph with him. ( a top DB that is currently on the fence with us and LSU. That would help our defensive woes. We could hang onto Beaty until his contract is over so no buyout is necessary while grroming one of the other two to take over should the ship not right itself. Tell Meacham and Aranda the best performer becomes HC in the end. They say competition brings out the best in everyone.

2) Bring back Mangino!! The only reason this isn't my top choice is because I doubt that would ever happen and most of all..... WHY would he want to come back? We are in a deeper hole than before, and this university took a big fat sh$t on him once already. I am sure we could offer enough money he would accept the job but after the damage has been done.... can you really buyout a sour attitude? (after taste) He was done pretty badly.

Michael Maris 4 years, 11 months ago

I like your Aranda suggestion. Find a way to re-hire Ed Warriner back as the OL Coach and perhaps the Co-Offensive Coordinator. And, keep Tony Hull as RB Coach and Co-Offensive Coordinator.

Patrick Bryant 4 years, 11 months ago

I hope they keep Beaty but if they don't I sure hope they scrap the uptempo game and 3 front D. Someone who could run the West Coast O and a 4-2(3) D may have a chance to rebuild a program. We can get those kids for those systems but we can't the kids for an uptempo O or a 3 front.

Bob Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago

Afte r 4 games 3 years ago, no one paid attention. Defense wins games. No tackling. No coverage. No Defensive Scheme a fifth grader couldn't break.

Reese's OC was at Ohio State. Start with him -- then be damn sure the DC knows more about the original 'Notre Dame Defense' than anyone else.

Why the heck did you so-called fans take so long to get smart.

Bj Cassady 4 years, 11 months ago

How about Les Miles? I never liked the guy but he got the job done.

Derek King 4 years, 11 months ago

As Barry Switzer likes to say, "it's not the Xs and the Os, it's the Jimmys and the Joes", and credit to Beaty, he's got the makings of a solid class coming in for 2018. That may be the thing that saves him for at least one more year. We're getting some talent, we just don't have enough of it yet. Firing him now just resets the clock. That, and we don't have a QB, so we're not going anywhere.

Brett McCabe 4 years, 11 months ago

It does not reset the clock, at all. A good coach can build on what we have and improve it.

Derek King 4 years, 11 months ago

Assuming the recruits don't de-commit. Beaty (currently) has at least one 4- and 5-star recruit lined up for next year. Maybe the next guy can keep them or do better, but I'm willing to let HCDB have one more year. I honestly don't know how much of our problem is talent vs coaching, but I suspect it's more of a talent issue.

Marius Rowlanski 4 years, 11 months ago

We do have another solid class so far for 2018. That's what I fear most if we fire Beaty.

Hiring/firing a coach at a top power conference will have a lot of consequences. It should be a tough decision.

Lawrence McGlinn 4 years, 11 months ago

We don't have enough talent to be competitive with Central Michigan and Ohio U?

Michael Sillman 4 years, 11 months ago

I don't think that there is any advantage to immediately firing Beaty to start recruiting a coach earlier than other schools. Any football coach that will be interested in KU will want to see the full universe of available jobs before making a commitment.

To me the best plan is to keep Beaty but insist on bringing in an old head coach as an advisor.

Layne Pierce 4 years, 11 months ago

Rather than the old shuffle, which does not work for us, if and when we make a change, we need to do it differently. Let's face it, our hiring has been an abysmal failure. We are looking for the wrong things. Not a recruiter, but a coach, not a good spokesperson, but a coach.
Not a candidate for on-the-job training, but someone who has proven they can build.

Secondly, we are always on the cheap, it is not working. Thirdly, we need a contract filled with incentives.

Right now, what makes you think we could find a good coach, if we made a change, and why would anyone we want, want the job? Tough questions my friends, with difficult answers. Harbaugh already has a job.

Derek King 4 years, 11 months ago

It's also interesting that he cuts the Zenger decision off before the 3rd upcoming game, against Baylor, (currently 0-6, with Texas and WV coming up). We're 37-point dogs against TCU (and will probably be +20 against K-State), but what happens if we get blown out in THAT game? If they don't fire him, does the narrative become "We're not doing a Weis/Gill 3x in a row...Beaty was always getting the 5 years in his original contract"?

Brett McCabe 4 years, 11 months ago

If you look at the comments on this site, what you get are a bunch of contrasting opinions.

In his first hire, Zenger went for bravado, but bravado built on X's and O'x. In his second hire, Zenger went for Jimmy's and Joe's, believing in Beaty's promise to recruit Texas in a big way.

The third way, the way we haven't tried is the development approach. Mason got some good players, he ran the toss sweep 15 times a game, and he won by developing players. Snyder got some good players, ran two completely different offensive styles, X'd and O'd pretty well, but was best known for developing players. Mark Mangino recruited some good players, knew his X's and O's but built his winners on developing players.

You can't succeed if you can't recruit. You can't succeed if you can't X and O. You can't succeed if you can't develop players. You have to be able to do everything competently but the way Kansas, KSU, Nebraska and others have succeeded is by developing players.

Let's find someone who can do that.

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