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Wednesday, November 18, 2015

Self sees progress but looks for more

Kansas head coach Bill Self directs his offense during the second half on Wednesday, Nov. 4, 2015 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas head coach Bill Self directs his offense during the second half on Wednesday, Nov. 4, 2015 at Allen Fieldhouse.

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The mood in the locker room the day after Kansas University’s 79-73 Champions Classic loss to Michigan State apparently was nothing like a year ago when the shell-shocked Jayhawks tried to make sense of a 32-point loss to Kentucky in the same event.

“Obviously it’s a bottom-line business, wins and losses, but we didn’t play poorly last night,” KU coach Bill Self said Wednesday on his Hawk Talk radio show. “We controlled the game for 33 minutes. We didn’t play well the last seven at all. There were some good things that happened last night and certainly some correctable things I think will make us better.”

The (1-1) Jayhawks, who squandered a 13-point advantage, actually led for 30:39. MSU (2-0) led for 5:43. The game was tied for 3:08, according to the official box score.

“We met and talked about everything,” Self said of Wednesday’s gathering with the team. “I think they (players) are in agreement. There are some intangibles we didn’t do that I think made a big difference in the outcome of the game, things like toughness.

“Thinking next play, forgetting what just happened, focusing on the next thing (down stretch). I think we can do a better job on that. I felt we let one (mistake) become two and two become three way too often. I felt we could have just (said), ‘OK we screwed that up. We didn’t guard this right, now we’ve got to hunker down and do this or that.’ We got deflated a bit when things didn’t go our way. You can kind of tell by body language. I think a little bit may have been fatigue as well. We’ve got to do a better job in a lot of areas.”

KU was buried by Denzel Valentine, who scored 21 of his 29 points the final half, finishing with a triple double that included 12 assists and 12 rebounds.

“I thought Devonté (Graham) was the most effective guy we had on Valentine. The problem when he was on Valentine, somebody else had to be on Forbes (Bryn, three threes) or whatnot. We could have done a great job and he still would have had 19 points or whatever. What frustrated me was we let him get to his left shoulder and the paint multiple times and of course it ended up costing us,” Self noted.

It was the second triple- double recorded against KU in history. Michigan State’s Magic Johnson had 12 points, 11 assists and 10 rebounds in a win over the Jayhawks in 1979 in East Lansing.

“He (Valentine) was great. Triple doubles are usually 10, 10 and 10. He had 29, 12 and 12. He got a real triple double,” Self said of the 6-5 senior from Lansing, Michigan. “He was by far the best player in the game. He only had one turnover. To think a guard skilled enough to get 12 assists, 12 rebounds, the ball always is in his hands and he turns it over once. We turned them over quite a bit (16 to KU’s six). It didn’t lead to a lot of points. We did a pretty good job in stretches defensively and very poor job in stretches.”

KU’s shooting both inside and out also was a concern.

“I could be pretty negative if I wanted to be about the game, but after watching the tape, good gosh we got the ball to two-feet a lot,” Self said. “We made our free throws but seemed we missed every crucial bunny. I counted 14 missed layups that were legit, not easy shots, but ones you should make 11 or 12 of ’em.

“We put ourselves in a situation they scored nine straight points off threes off offensive rebounds or screwups, unfortunate plays which took it from 11 down to a very manageable number (for MSU). We were close to cracking it but just didn’t get it done.”

KU hit three of 15 threes and 34.8 percent overall. MSU hit 46.7 percent; 53.3 the final half in scoring 44 points.

“Gosh I wish we could have stepped up and made some shots,” Self said, lauding Wayne Selden Jr. for drilling a three that gave KU a one-point lead with 1:52 left. “We were three of 15 from three but took three the last (meaningless) possession, so we got off 12 threes. They did a good job on that (defending KU). We got the ball where we wanted to go a lot of times, then you miss a couple, you don’t play as aggressive and end up settling. We did that too much down the stretch.

“In a lot of ways we didn’t play well at all. We shot a bad percentage, but led by 11 (actually 13). You can’t do that if you are not playing tough. But we didn’t finish the game playing tough in my opinion at all and that was the difference in the game.”

Of Selden who had 12 points off 3-of-12 shooting, Self said: “Wayne I think is the key to our team as much as anybody else because we saw what he could do this summer in Korea at how great he was. He doesn’t have to play to that level every night. We know that’s not realistic because he was so good over there (in World Games). More consistently toward that level would elevate our team so much.”

KU will next meet Chaminade at 8 p.m., Lawrence time, Monday in Hawaii. It’s a first-round Maui Invitational game. The Jayhawks will leave for Maui on Friday.

Monk picks Kentucky: Malik Monk, a 6-4 senior shooting guard from Bentonville (Arkansas) High, who is ranked No. 6 nationally by Rivals.com, on Wednesday signed a letter-of-intent with Kentucky. Monk chose the Wildcats over Arkansas, KU and others. Kentucky also has signed No. 5-rated point guard De’Aaron Fox, No. 7-rated forward Bam Adebayo, No. 17-rated forward Wenyen Gabriel and No. 26 power forward Sacha Killeya-Jones.

Some now consider KU the frontrunner for No. 20-rated Jarrett Allen, 6-9 senior forward from St. Stephens Episcopal School in Austin, Texas. He also has Kentucky, Texas, Houston and Notre Dame on his list. KU, Duke and others are contending for No. 16 Marques Bolden, a 6-10 senior from DeSoto (Texas) High, who also likes Alabama. KU also is in the hunt for No. 1-rated Josh Jackson, a 6-7 guard from Prolific Prep High in Napa, California.

Comments

Town Thomas 6 years, 9 months ago

It looks like Coach Self has forgotten the Michigan game back in 2013.

Humpy Helsel 6 years, 9 months ago

Well, OK. Fans, players, and coaches, all back with our feet firmly planted on planet Earth. The game exposed us, and some of the frustration and anger comes from fact our problems look all too familiar from the previous two years. Glad we weren't playing Kentucky or Duke last night. And I imagine Izzo is glad they weren't playing them, either. We can rely on our athleticism against many teams in the country, but not against the elite teams. We have to win with smarts, defense, rebounding and all of the other components which allow some of the better mid majors to compete with the big guys and go deep into the tournament. If you think back to the 08 team and the Thomas Robinson final year, opponents basically got one shot and that was about it other than the occasional long rebound. We don't have any type of enforcer or supreme force around the basket and haven't had one since Embiid. Is Diallo that force? We may never know. But this team, or its coaches, shouldn't be trashed or written off as many of the faithful are likely to do for awhile after a loss like this. Everyone just got clean and sober two nights ago, and now recovery begins. God, grant me serenity to...

Clarence Haynes 6 years, 9 months ago

You hit it on the head re no intimidating inside presence. Diallo could vey we'll be the answer. Otherwise we need to better figure out how we maximize the performance of what we have.

James Donnell 6 years, 9 months ago

I totally agree. We were exposed (once again). All the hype we fans like to believe--but we certainly looked more like the team that disappointed us so often last year, not anything like a #4 ranked team. We all had hoped that the Korea trip and all of the returning players would give us an advantage. But we need to face the reality that there are so many really great teams out there with a lot of talented players. We have to change the things that hurt us last year, and these are some of my observations: 1. Our small guards need to drive and kick it out to our good shooters--not take on the world! And what was the deal with Graham taking and missing shot after shot?? 2. So we need to get some shots for Greene and Svi. Those guys can really shoot, but give them a good look or a screen (they also may be our best FT shooters, so get them involved). 3. Inject some new blood. We keep hoping and hoping that Selden is the answer, but he hasn't come close to the expectations. Get Bragg on the floor and let him play (before he's gone). Let Svi get comfortable. 4. We have no inside force or offense that will collapse a defense--this is our biggest weakness and what will limit us. Diallo could change this. In the meantime, put Hunter out there. Really, the other bigs have been ineffective and should be in limited reserve roles. Traylor seems to have peaked two years ago.

It seems like everyone knows all this. Coach Self undoubtedly has his reasons for how and when he uses his players, but I think he needs to shake things up, or we will have a replay of last year. Yes, we may win another conference championship, but with all the great teams, we are going to have to overachieve to last more than a game or two in the tournament. The season has just started, so there is a lot of time, but I think all the Jayhawk fans expected more in the first big game of the season. For myself, I will enjoy watching the games but take down my expectations a couple of notches.

Benz Junque 6 years, 9 months ago

We would have beat Duke. They were not impressive at all and had no physical shot blocking presence down low to scare Mason into disappearing like Kentucky last year and Michigan State did this year.

The old saying of "You have to be confident that you can do something even before you ever have any reason to be confident you can do something" seems to apply here. The Jayhawks just did not look like they have any confidence that they could execute their game plan and hit their shots, even when they were winning.

And technically, we got embarrassed by 32 last year and were never remotely competitive so having a 13 point lead and only losing by 6 is "improvement", right?

Mike Tackett 6 years, 9 months ago

Really? Thumped by a short handed MSU team picked 4th in the Big10. Same look we have for the last two years. LL is shooting 30%, from three feet, no progress there.

Danny Hernandez 6 years, 9 months ago

It still starts with smart point guard play and we don't have that. As much as ppl got on Tyshawn & EJ, those guys were studs and could have stopped Valentine. Our guards are too small. Please Coach Self, promise the reins to one of the remaining stud high school point guards. I fear our brand is losing its luster, especially when we now have the best looking dorms in college basketball that should close any deal. Let me see, Lexington, really! Durham, come on! Lawrence? Not any worse or better than those two, so it must come down to our brand or Coach.

Marius Rowlanski 6 years, 9 months ago

Tyshawn maybe, EJ no chance. RRob? Different story.

Aaron Paisley 6 years, 9 months ago

Selden is the same size as Valentine and was on him the most. Devonte Graham is the one who actually did the best job on Valentine. Valentine was also the most talented player on the floor.

David Kemp 6 years, 9 months ago

Our offensive scheme does not set picks for our shooters to get a 3 look. Thus we missed any impact is science, Greene or selden. We need to get our shooters in the offense.

Jerry Walker 6 years, 9 months ago

Stuff happens. Several of our guys laid an egg and Self panicked a little by relying on a short rotation and leaving Hunter Mick and Bragg on the bench.

Robert Brock 6 years, 9 months ago

When the going gets tough, Izzo's teams rebound, fight through screens, and play rough defense. The Hawks just were not up to the task.

By the way, what was KU's offense in the second half? Is there a name for it?

Benz Junque 6 years, 9 months ago

Let's call it "Hot Potato", where the players keep running a weave hoping that they aren't the one holding the ball when the shot clock hits six and someone has to shoot or drive and pray for a foul.

Drew Doerfler 6 years, 9 months ago

biggest problem....since the national championship team, outside of tyshawn his senior year, ku's point guards have been atrocious. i like mason, but he is a short 2 guard. Self is unable to recruit top guards. This is because he doesn't give them any freedom in his system. We have had some great teams, but without a top point guard, we won't make another deep run into the tournament. While the other elite teams are loading up on top point guards and shooting guards, KU is getting players ranked in the 100's.

Rob Bedford III 6 years, 9 months ago

And when KU does get players in the top 50 they turn into duds like Selden.

Drew Doerfler 6 years, 9 months ago

i wouldn't consider selden a dud, just not living up to expectations. he is still a decent player. but he is a 3 guard. he doesn't have the handles of a 2. i was talking more of the 1 and 2's in his system

Marius Rowlanski 6 years, 9 months ago

Selden was #12.
AWIII has been lighting it up so far in Nebraska 23.5 mpg 18 ppg (team high) shooting over 60% from the 3.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafbvideos/andrew-white-iii-breakaway-dunk-vs-northern-state/vi-CCayBo?refvid=AAdZB61

Andrew White III Breakaway Dunk vs. Northern State

Brian Wilson 6 years, 9 months ago

Our biggest problem is recruiting players to the wrong position. We are destroying Selden's and Ellis' chance to play in the NBA. In the NBA Selden will have to play point and Ellis will have to play the 3, Neither have the skills, or experience, and may never have it, since they can't and don't play those positions at KU. I realize that you have to play the best lineup, but that should last one season and then KU should be trying to correct it. KU should be playing players at their respective NBA positions without having to ask players to play out of position. KU should be preparing players for the next level at all five positions. KU is doing a disservice to players with NBA potential by playing players out of position ahead of them. Each year, when recruiting we should be filling the positions we need and have openings for while moving those players playing out of position back to their NBA spot and into compeition. Ellis and Selden should have either imporved or moved on by now but they didn't because BS let them get comfortable and set anchor. BS should have recruited a true center in the past two years and Hunter, Lucas, and, Traylor should be getting more mintues at the 4 by now. Ellis should have been moved to the 3, Selden to the 2 and point and made them compete for playing time. If they couldn't win the job they should ride pine. This is why players change schools at the end of their Sophomore years. If they can't beat out the competition and start at their positions then they move to a school where they can start. In this case, Self started these guys as Freshman and just couldn't let them go. While really good, Ellis and Selden at their respective positions are not big enough, powerful enough, fast enough, good enough defensively, or ball handling, etc., to dominate and beat the likes of KY, Duke, UNC, etc. So we are not putting ourselves in a position to have killer instinct. or dominate. Look, I love these guys, but I just don't get why we are doing this to ourselves. I expect we will have a great year up to the elite eight. But, I can't wait to see new starters at the 3 and 4 spots.

Jim Stauffer 6 years, 9 months ago

Any time Coach can lament missing bunnies and not mention Landon Lucas and his own failure to play Hunter instead means we will not improve in the future. The definition of insanity they say is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Hey Coach. Guess whose picture now belongs in the Dictionary as an illustration of crazy.

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Wow of all people for Self to point out that did something good he had to pick out Devonte. We are in for a rough ride because he could not even guard the 3-point shooters. He does not warrant 38 minutes in any game and looks like Self will continue to play him. Self has truly lost his mind!

Rodney Crain 6 years, 9 months ago

Now only 9 players left in the 2016 recruiting class Top 100. 20 schools have signed 2 or more players in the top 100. 5 schools have signed 3+.

We are still waiting on a few other schools to fill up their rosters before anyone signs with us. I am sure someone will be left who will be forced to come to KU to play cause there will be no where else to go.

Oh well, beggars can't be choosers.

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Would you want to play for Self? Bragg hardly saw any action.

Glen Miller 6 years, 9 months ago

Bragg was out hustled, out rebounded and can't play D......... He can shoot, but I have not seen much else from him yet. He's got the athleticism and the frame. He needs to add weight and get some experience before I have him in at crunch time.

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Lucas, Graham, Seldon were way much better - Right? Those three let crunch time go right past us.

Glen Miller 6 years, 9 months ago

Lucas is anemic on offense, but at least he can grab a rebound. Selden and Graham do not play the same position. I'm not real sure where you are going with that comment? My point was that Bragg is not a BETTER option than anyone else at this time. He's got some growing to do and the Champions Classic, 2nd game of the year was not the place to do such. We've got too much experience to have to rely on a struggling Freshman.

John Boyle 6 years, 9 months ago

Landen Lucas is not a division 1 player. He has no business playing the minutes he was given in the MSU game. Bragg got out muscled a bit but he still would have been a much better option than Lucas. And Mickelson would have been a better choice than Lucas. I know Self wants to reward Lucas for sticking with the program all these years but enough is enough. Let him play mop up minutes not minutes during crucial parts of the game.

Aaron Paisley 6 years, 9 months ago

Carlton Bragg 0 rebounds in 11 minutes against Sparty. I don't know what you're production is, but goose egging all but one statistical category (4 points) is production. It's amazing what you can learn about players when you actually look at stats and then form an opinion on a players worth

Rodney Crain 6 years, 9 months ago

James you might be on to something...

Right now the answer is a few players looking at where they can play with only a few chairs left as the music is winding down. We have been beaten on players were had a great connection with. Beaten by schools that have no advantage over KU but still are getting 1,2,3 players signed. It is almost comical if it was not so sad.

We will get somebody, whoever is left. We certainly are not getting our 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice of players. Its been this way for a few years, we wait and wait till everyone is done, then cobble together a class. That is living on borrowed time. It will catch up to you. We have starting and PT options open and cannot even get a sniff.

Tom Jones 6 years, 9 months ago

Awww...isn't that cute? Rodney found a friend.

Trolls of a feather....

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

So funny Tom. I am a 1982 KU grad and have more KU gear than you by far. My problem is that I care way more than you. You are a follower and can't stand up and say enough is enough. If you have enjoyed the last 5 years than I am happy for you. Our future is very ugly and I don't want to watch us go down in flames. We can either rise up and question the status quo or we can sit back like you and do nothing. You are why Bill Self does not change. You ask nothing from him. You have no expectations. Let him make millions and put a so so team on the court. Win another Big 12 Championship that means nothing and you are happy. How pathetic.

Marius Rowlanski 6 years, 9 months ago

James - we graduated the same year. Kinda funny.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 9 months ago

Tom calls me a troll but he acts like one, interesting. Kettle = Black Tom Tom? So predictable, you are embarrassing yourself again. Remember you wanted me to tell you when you were acting like a fool Tom?? You are, again.

Its ok James, Tom is known on here for his childish ways.

Dan Harris 6 years, 8 months ago

So I guess Diallo,Wiggens and JoJo were our 4th or 5th choices?

Brian Friess 6 years, 9 months ago

Wow. When's the last time any of you haters have coached a game? Bill Self has done some unbelievable things for KU! Too many of you push the panic button because of 1 game in November. Get a clue....go to practice every day and learn his system...then, maybe, just maybe, you would have the right to bash him. Wow.

David Lara 6 years, 9 months ago

Wow. Bill Self is too experienced and too highly paid to pull off a mindless effort in a game this important. Why not make an adjustment Coach? If you think "Wayne is the key to our team" (God help us), why not try a few plays that try to get him going? Try running a little more pressure to get some turnovers in transition. I liked Jamari's energy, but Landen needed to be pulled on several occasions. Mickelson has shown he can play with great energy. Same with Bragg. There is no damn reason to continue to give Lucas shots he is not making from point blank. At least Mickelson can show some defensive presence inside and stop Valentine at the bucket.

It just seems that Self can't learn to adapt when he comes up short in these type of games (and there have been more than I would like to admit), or, worse yet, doesn't critique his own in game decisions. You gotta bring your best game plan, but more importantly, recognize when it ain't workin' and have the plan B/C/D ready to go. Adjustments are what decide the game for pete's sake!!

Benz Junque 6 years, 9 months ago

It's amazing how many coaching geniuses show up on the KU boards after KU loses a game.

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Brian wake up...for the last 4 years this is how our short season starts. We can not compete with the elite teams any more. Self wins because we play tons of game in the Phog. Wake Up!!! Why we win the Big 12 and can't win in the Tournament. We can't even recruit anymore. Glad that you are happy with just showing up!

Wow I really don't want to know his system because it is broken. He is paid millions to bring in quality players and produce a winning team in the tournament not just the Big 12.

Jack Hoff 6 years, 9 months ago

James you seriously need to stop and relax. Out of curiosity have you ever played or coached BBall competitively? So bringing in Wiggins, JoJo, Bragg, And Diallo qualifies as can't recruit anymore? The all powerful Duke that you love so much flamed out of the NCAA tourney back to back years. It happens to every great program. Cal lost in the first round of the NIT for gosh sakes. Why don't you submit your coaching resume and qualifications since you seem to know the answers to everything and your clearly smarter than Self could ever be at coaching his own team. They lost to a good Wichita State team lost year without Cliff, they should have won but that is just the reality of the situation. They choked to Stanford without Embiid. Not an excuse but again the reality of the situation. Took miracle shots by Trey Burke to beat them the previous year and made the Final Four the year before. The program is in better shape than you think.

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Enjoy the ride Jack. I am sure that you know everything about coaching. I expect more than you from Bill Self so just deal with it. I can only hope that he pulls a Willams and goes to OSU. The program is in the worst shape than you think.

Bottom line are we getting beat at recruiting....YES! Can we beat an elite program...NO! Do we continue to lose early in the Tournament...YES!

How many years do you have to take before you say his system is not working?

Allin Herring 6 years, 8 months ago

Yea I am tired of hearing all this Big 12 Championship stuff. It a league full of TCU/K State with one or 2 decent teams and we brag. If we are so good why have we lost in the 1st weekend over 50% of the times in the past 12 years? This year there are 5 teams in the top 25 and lets see how well we will do now. Especially with the same team as last year which to me was probably the worst KU team in the last 25 years and with the exception of Perry Ellis has not improved one bit. We let Greene sit on the bench after going 6-6 the game before and let Svi who the only thing that has change about him is his age, play more minutes then Greene especially when it was down to the wire and we needed a shot. And now his is suspended! Probably because he was pissed because he was sitting instead of playing! And finally saying Graham did any thing that was good about that game or the previous one is plain crazy.

Bee Bee 6 years, 9 months ago

The old, "If you haven't coached you can' criticize game." Very nice. I never worked at NASA but I know we landed on the moon.

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Agree Bee Bee...so tired of people content with what is going on. What really set me off Tuesday night was to see Izzo with that damn smirk on his face knowing that he out coached Bill again with a smaller and less experienced team.

Marius Rowlanski 6 years, 9 months ago

Michigan State is the more experienced team. They do have more Freshman (all his recruits qualified) but the SRs get the most time on the court.

John Boyle 6 years, 9 months ago

Agreed. BeeBee probably stayed up all night trying to come up with that "clever" analogy. Keep trying BeeBee, if you say enough words, eventually something intelligent will come out. Just keep trying.

John Strayer 6 years, 9 months ago

Coach just like everyone else isn't perfect and yes he does appear to be stubborn when it comes to making adjustments.

And then we get the occasional confusion from him in the media....first this: “Obviously it’s a bottom-line business, wins and losses, but we didn’t play poorly last night,” KU coach Bill Self said Wednesday on his Hawk Talk radio show.

Later followed by this: “In a lot of ways we didn’t play well at all. We shot a bad percentage, but led by 11 (actually 13). You can’t do that if you are not playing tough. But we didn’t finish the game playing tough in my opinion at all and that was the difference in the game.”

So did the team play poorly or not in Coach Self's opinion?

Brett McCabe 6 years, 9 months ago

Not a fan of those comments from Self, they seem a little defensive. We were in Boston when Dan Duquette said that Boston had been in first place for more games than any other team in the majors, but didn't make the playoffs.

Rob Bedford III 6 years, 9 months ago

Kentucky just got a commitment from # 5 Malik Monk. That makes 3 top ten commits in the last two weeks.

Thomas Luxem 6 years, 9 months ago

Think the Graham/Mason tandem won't work against legit teams. My chart is: Mason Selden Greene Ellis Bragg. subs- Graham Svi Traylor Lucas. We have a lot of scoring power. We should use it.

Bee Bee 6 years, 9 months ago

I dont see much scoring power on this team. Right off you can take away, Lucas, Traylor, Mickleson, Seldon (most games) Svi, Greene and Graham. Bragg looks to have some potential but obviously needs to be on the court. That leaves Perry and Frank. (Not sure of Vick yet)

John Boyle 6 years, 9 months ago

Really, Greene has no scoring power. That's just nuts. He doesn't get on the court because of his defense. You are right about Lucas though. He shouldn't ever see the court except at mop up time.

Jack Hoff 6 years, 9 months ago

I have never seen "fans" who cannot be pleased quite like the "fans" on here. No doubt it is a disappointing and frustrating loss. But good lord some of y'all make no sense sometime. You overreact to the littlest things. First you say Self needs to quit with with the OAD experiment after early tourney losses and go to finding diamond in the rough tough players that will stay and develop because they are "mentally tougher". Then when he is not bringing in a top 10 Recruit every other day, then that must mean Kansas has lost it's brand and Bill Self his losing his abilities. Which do you want? You can't have it both ways! When the team wins, everything is sunshine and Self is greatest to to have ever lived. But a loss and all of a sudden he needs to be fired and everybody needs to be benched and blah blah blah blah. Never seen a group of people panic and overreact so much.They play 30+ games for a reason. Heaven forbid they gasp improve over the course of those 30 games.

Casey Olson 6 years, 9 months ago

I don't question his ability to recruit. I think they can project talent as well as any program in the country. I think the problem with the other night's loss is that it sure seems to happen a lot in big games. The Phog is continuously rated as one of the hardest places to play in all of sports so I think the wins and conference championships are just like 3's to Self.....Fools Gold. What happens at neutral sites against competition from outside the conference? They seem to lose quite a few of those games while for the most part, having more talent

David Lara 6 years, 9 months ago

Jack, I know it is not easy to follow which fans state they want to do away with OAD's and which ones want to make it an arms race of 18-yr-olds, so don't be so silly as to lump all the various opinions on this site into one big conflicting point of view. Lot's of people have their own opinion on what would be the best approach, just because you see two that are contrasting doesn't mean they both come from each individual fan. Anyone who thinks Self needs to be fired is a moron. Plain and simple. He just needs to asses his own decision making and have a staff that is comprised not of yes men, but guys that will think critically and help him see the good and bad of his performance and keep him from being stubborn. He may very well self-assess on his own, but from the results in games this important I think it should be happening a whole lot more.

KU lost to the worst team at the Champions Classic this year, bringing our record to 1-4. It's bad enough when KU is the worst team of the four, but we have a deep, experienced team that should have a considerable advantage. Wasn't Korea supposed to give this very experienced team an edge, some sort of advantage on how to fight, play tough, break through and get past the early season rust? It's as if Korea never happened. Every single player just regressed back to March 12 2015 right before our eyes. The Selden disappearing act, Perry might as well have still been injured, Landen contributing nothing but being the biggest dude on the court. We had no business losing that game and the adjustments should have been made to keep it from happening. I really didn't see any, and to me it seemed like all Self was good for was pointing out where guys were screwing up because I didn't see any adjustments being made on the court. The offense just fell back into shooting 3s, having Frank or Devonte drive for layups, or a High-Low featuring Landen freakin Lucas. Mindless coaching from where I'm sitting. Self has to do better. If you aren't improving you are getting worse in this business.

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

David I am ok with being called a moron. Fire Bill Self! He is cocky and arrogant and will not listen or make changes. He knows that he is untouchable because we are all afraid that he will go to OSU. Please take him! He rarely points the finger at himself and always blames the players.

KU created Bill not the other way around.

KU is heading in the wrong direction and we need Self to make changes and if he won't we have to make the tough decision.

Brett McCabe 6 years, 9 months ago

David, it's a tough balancing act. The University of Kansas, my beloved alma mater, really has nothing more to offer than a large number of quality universities. We're in a backwater state with not much talent, no tv sets and reduced state support. Given all of those facts, what Roy and Bill have done can be viewed as massive overachievements.

However, with those achievements has come an abundance of fan, alumni and financial support - so it seems as if all of the oars are in the water.

When you look at successful coaches and programs in the two big sorts of football and baseball, you notice that those programs sometimes go through a bit of a lull. Coaching complacency? Coaching arrogance? Coaching stagnation?

Per Rodney's post yesterday, there is something off with this program right now. Coach K and Coach Cal have charted their paths: All In OAD. KU seems to be lost right now, without a clear vision of what it wants to be - hidden gem players, high-ranked OAD's, etc., etc. Perhaps I'm missing it, but it doesn't seem like we have a clear approach to recruitment and development.

Marius Rowlanski 6 years, 9 months ago

I wish we could be more respectful here... You don't agree w/someone hardly means they are morons. Things have been much better here lately - I hope it stays that way.

In no means am I saying I haven't contributed to the needless attacks but I'm trying. Go after people's opinion, not the person.

Dan Harris 6 years, 8 months ago

Fire Bill Self comments are moronic so if the shoe fits...

Tom Jones 6 years, 9 months ago

KU has one of the more spoiled fanbases around. They don't take losses well in general, and of course the trolls love crowing after a loss.

Just par for the course.

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Tom glad that you are HAPPY with the last five years. Tired of the wait till next year or we will tear it up in March attitude. Enjoy your ride and seek me out when you are watching someone else cut the nets down.

Tom Jones 6 years, 9 months ago

Don't let the door hit you on the butt on your way out, James!

Rodney Crain 6 years, 9 months ago

James, Tom is homer from way back if it was up to him no one, that is nobody would ever say one word bad about his beloved team.

Its ok some people just want to put their fingers in their ears and say la la la la la I can't hear you. la la la la la la

Kent Richardson 6 years, 9 months ago

Rodney, last week I could read all the posts in 2 minutes and now I don't have time to do all that. Since it seems like you do I will just read yours and tap the like button. Lol

Beate Williams 6 years, 9 months ago

Jack, you have said everything that needs to be said.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 9 months ago

Jack I would take just one top 10 recruit in the early signing period like many schools did, repeatedly by the way. Your statement is an overexaggeration. How about just one a year early? Like every so called top team does.
That loss was a bad choke by an experienced team. Unacceptable. They had time to play over the summer to be ready and it looked like they panicked. No leadership and mistake after mistake on how to play. I think its ok to blow off some steam when your team fails that badly. Same execuses you are bringing up everyyear we always hear, they will get better, wait till the holiday break, we will be ready when conference play starts, we will peak at the NCAA tourny. Sorry none and I mean zero of those things have happened the last few years. Wait I forgot one we were injured, oh you mean like MSU was? Sorry that bell does not ring anymore.

Something is off, we might be in for a third in a row 8-10 loss season and a early exit from the NCAAs. I certainly do not get to high when we are winning and I certainly point out room for improvement when we lose. I have never said we need to change our head coach but something is amiss. It is not just one loss, it is the repeated losses where we lose our composure our confidence for no reason and watch one or two players beat us. Too many times Jack the last few years have we seen that movie.

Casey Olson 6 years, 9 months ago

I understand what coach Self's offensive system is but why can we not get shooters open. It seems to be the last thing on the priority list. I know getting the ball inside is priority #1 but when that just isn't working, which seems to happen a lot lately, why not find ways to get Svi and Green looks? Seems like every other team in the country can get guys open. Our open threes are in transition or on long rebounds. Defense and pound it inside, I get it, just maybe get one of those guys going early and at least the defense has to think about that being an option. If you were a shooter or a wing/guard scorer would you come here?

David Kemp 6 years, 9 months ago

I would agree that not running a scheme to get svi and Greene open to shoot is a real liability. Also in fairness to HCBS diallo was supposed to be a missing piece to this team so let's hope this all works thru because traylor is too undersized, Lucas too lumbering and mickelson probably too slow.

Rob Bedford III 6 years, 9 months ago

Don't sugar coat things. Lucas sucks and should not ever see playing time for KU. That shows how bad things are right now.

David Kemp 6 years, 9 months ago

Being nice, but not having diallo brings now 3 years in a row trying to play games without a starting center out for whatever reason.

Casey Olson 6 years, 9 months ago

That is fair. Hopefully Diallo can fill in the gaps where needed but relying on freshman, even top 10 guys, is not something that usually works out. I do think this years team will end up as a 1 or 2 seed. The sky is not falling but if anyone on here really believes that no changes are necessary, I think you are kidding yourselves. Firing him would be crazy but demanding more from him and having some level of accountability is certainly reasonable.

Eliott Reeder 6 years, 9 months ago

This is a totally random tidbit, but there was an article long ago where Sherron or somebody joked about Cole Aldrich always using the term 'whatnot' when speaking, and ever since then I've noticed that Self and some of the older KU players that have been around a while use it in quotes. Must be contagious...

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Robin now that you mention it. It could have been the killer B's in 2005 and 2006 - Bucknell and Bradley. Maybe 2010 with Northern Iowa. VCU in 2011. Michigan in 2013. Stanford in 2014. Just maybe Wichita State last March. Yep I know it was the combination of all of these!

Tom Jones 6 years, 9 months ago

Since you're hung up on the tournament, James, let this sink in.

No team in the country has more NCAA tournament wins since Bill Self has been playing only his recruits than Kansas.

Oh, the humanity.

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Good one Tom...Maybe because we win the B-12 because we play most of our games at the Phog and we get a high seed and win the first game. Not because we go deep every year like 2005 and 2006. Again glad that you are happy!

Dan Harris 6 years, 8 months ago

Half of Big 12 games are played on the opponents court so why do you keep stressing this useless tidbit!?!

Rodney Crain 6 years, 9 months ago

Tom you are living in the past again... How many top flight recruits we have this year? Oh yeah wait for it, Oh the humanity of the present.

Kent Richardson 6 years, 9 months ago

My take away from this article was it always pointing away from the players who should have been in the spotlight and Self didn't air his dirty laundry in public. It doesn't have to be in print and I believe the players are being spotlighted behind closed doors and in practice this week.

We lost some luster for sure and it takes twice as long to get it back.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 9 months ago

Bill Self's refusal to depart from his offensive system has been, is, and will be the downfall of this program. The high low is trash, any system that accomodates lesser talented players and excludes super talented sharp shooters needs to be thrown away. Self is arrogant and stuck in his ways. The mark of a great coach is his willingness to change for the sake of winning. Case in point, Nick Saban, who's known for running the football with multiple tight ends, decided to bring in a more spread out system in light of the rules changes and the fact that high school offensive players prefer to play in this type of system. Also, Coach K, last year, with Jahlil Okafor on his roster, had his team through the ball into the post more than ever. But Self, regardless if the post is Embiid or Lucas, forces his team to throw it down low while Brannen Greene and Svi are delegated to the bench. You can be sure without a doubt that rival coaches are warning recruits, particulary guards and wings, about Self's system. Because he refuses to change, he needs to go

David Kemp 6 years, 9 months ago

Agree time to abandon hi low system and find ways to utilize dharpshooters

Ashwin Rao 6 years, 9 months ago

Interesting! From what I have gleaned from many of the comments is that folks want to start afresh with a new coach, just like we did in Football! That is wonderful! Given our AD's great track record, that has a lot of promise! Thanks for thinking of it, guys!


BTW: don't for a minute (less than that, maybe, especially close to the end of the last game) think that I agree to that approach. The thought was mention to cool some heads (and to bring some sensibilities).

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Wow Ashwin you had me going there for a SECOND! Yes unfortunately we will have to endure more March Madness because someone has to stand up and say "we need change!" Because KU has created Bill Self it won't be easy to cut ties. Plus, we are so afraid that OSU will rise from the ashes. It won't be you standing up but I understand. Enjoy!

Ashwin Rao 6 years, 9 months ago

I completely agree with the sentiments (having to deal with "my way or the highway" approach, not recruiting good guards etc), but I would hate the 2nd option (Zenger's pick). Coach Self has my full support for now.

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Ashwin he had my support but I am done and tired of the same old crap. He won't make adjustments to his approach and we are stuck holding the bag.

Jeff Foster 6 years, 9 months ago

One game, losing sucks, keep the faith. I get frustrated by losing a recruit to another school or by a loss we believe we should have won just like anyone else, I really thought we would beat MSU by 15 and it was looking that way until we couldn't stop an All-American who put his team on his back and just dominated. I'm also a KC Royals fan and when Ned Yost did a lot of crazy things with rotations and lineups and everyone bashed him, hindsight showed you truly have to put faith in the guy that's there every day and knows the players better than anyone. I'll take Coach Self over Roy, Calipari and even Coach K every day, he just fits at KU. None of those schools can boast the below, we'll get ours! It could be worse...we could have a program like missouri (doesn't even deserve to be capitalized)! #rockchalk #freediallo Under Self: • 1 NCAA Championship • 2 Final Fours • 11 Conference Regular Season Championships (2005-2015, 11 straight) • 6 Conference Tournament Championships • World University Games, World Freaking Champions 2015 • 2009 Henry Iba Award Coach of the Year, AP Coach of the Year, CBS/Chevrolet Coach of the Year, Sporting News Coach of the Year • 2012 Naismith College Coach of the Year, Sporting News Coach of the Year, Adolph Rupp Cup • 2006, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 Big 12 Coach of the Year Award

Jerry Walker 6 years, 9 months ago

" I'll take Coach Self over Roy, Calipari and even Coach K every day, he just fits at KU."

Here's a big Amen to that, Jeff.

James Smith 6 years, 9 months ago

Good stuff Jeff! Why we cannot fire him and live with the yearly disappointments. I will seek you out in March and we can revisit this. If Bill does not make changes to his offense and personnel we will have the same result in 2016.

We are already going to pay for poor recruiting.

Brad Mason 6 years, 9 months ago

People seem to forget that we beat this pretty much same MSU team last year at this time in Orlando. I agree it was hard to watch another lead slip. Until Diallo comes back---my starting 5: Mickelson, Ellis, Greene, Selden, Mason. Bragg, Traylor, Svi, Vick and Graham as 2nd string.

Clark Groseth 6 years, 9 months ago

To all the...oh well. THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING!

Paul Christiansen 6 years, 9 months ago

I admit that I thought Self pulled a Rabbit out of his hat with this recruiting class. And agree with all of you that we are late to the party with our recruiting. Kentucky is cleaning up. However, it's becoming pretty obvious (as much as I admire Frank Mason for his courage) that we have no one like Valentine on the perimeter.

Chad Redeker 6 years, 9 months ago

This team struggles because of their lack of elite athleticism. Frank, Diallo, and to some extent Perry are the only real athletic players on this team. Look at our bigs, can any of them catch a pass at the free throw line and put the ball on the floor and get to the basket. They have been recruited to run an old style high, low offense and aren't equipped with skills of the modern game. This team has shooters and coaches have to free up our shooters with plays to do so. Movement, screens, and passing allow that to happen. Why are other teams shooters always open and our players are always late getting to them, offensive schemes. I am just tired of watching the same one trick poney. Simple solution to help the players on the court if your a coach. If I catch you standing you will be sitting.

Jerry Walker 6 years, 9 months ago

" If I catch you standing you will be sitting."

Just as aptly applied to the defense...particularly weak side. Several of our guys can't wait for their man to go away from the ball so they can come out of their defensive crouch.

Michael Lorraine 6 years, 9 months ago

I get the disappointment but what’s up with KU fans who think firing people is the answer to everything? There are at least 4 people on the current S list, 5 if you count Keegan and it’s only a matter of time before Beaty joins the list. Sometimes our fans sound like 3rd graders.

Michael Lorraine 6 years, 9 months ago

Firing a coach is easy, look how many football coaches we’ve canned and how well that’s worked for us. Hiring, well that’s a whole different story and given how high Bill Self has set the bar it’s unlikely any decent coach would want to come here knowing they won’t be here long if they don’t surpass what he’s accomplished. I’m only in the 2nd grade but even I know firing Bill Self would be a colossal act of stupidity.

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