Thursday, March 10, 2011

Oklahoma State’s Marshall Moses: Fifth foul a ‘terrible call’

Oklahoma State forward Marshall Moses protests a foul during the first half on Thursday, March 10, 2011 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City.

Oklahoma State forward Marshall Moses protests a foul during the first half on Thursday, March 10, 2011 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City.



KU vs. Oklahoma State

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Kansas defeated Oklahoma State 63-62 in the first round of the Big 12 Tournament on Thursday, March 10, 2011 at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

— Oklahoma State forward Marshall Moses didn’t mince words when talking about his controversial fifth foul — a charge against Kansas University’s Mario Little with 2:55 remaining in OSU’s 63-62 loss to KU on Thursday afternoon.

Moses bounced into Little while dribbling a few times before Little launched himself backwards to draw the whistle.

“That’s a terrible call. I don’t know how coach feels about me saying that to the media, but that’s a terrible call,” Moses said. “Good defense by Mario Little. That’s a veteran move, pulling the chair out on me.

“He knew I was going to try to back him down; I’m bigger than he is. But I don’t think anybody in America who saw the game would say that I fouled him.”

Moses, one of three Cowboys who fouled out against the Jayhawks, apologized for some of his actions, saying he was “a little out of character toward the referee.”

Still, he wasn’t backing off his stance regarding the call.

“I didn’t foul the guy, and I can’t even pretend like I did just for media purposes,” Moses said. “Like I said, all credit to Mario Little. That was a great play. It was smart. It was a veteran play.

“But for the referee to give me that fifth foul on that, especially late in the game, I thought that was maybe the worst call I’ve gotten on me all year.”

Without forwards Moses, Matt Pilgrim and Jarred Shaw, the Cowboys were limited on their last possession when trailing, 63-62, with 20 seconds left.

OSU coach Travis Ford was forced to put shorter players at positions they’d rarely played this season. He hesitated calling a more complex play, figuring his players might not know their responsibilities at their new positions.

The Cowboys also became easier to defend, as KU was able to switch on every ball screen without worrying about the potential mismatch of having a guard defend a big man.

Ford opted to try to space the floor to run the weave — a play that had been successful earlier in the game. The hope was that one of his players could create off the dribble and either make a shot or draw a foul.

The Jayhawks, however, were sound defensively, as Little forced a bobble from OSU’s Reger Dowell, then contested Jean-Paul Olukemi’s final shot.

“They did what good teams do. They didn’t make a mistake,” Moses said. “A lot of teams in that situation get panicky and frantic. They didn’t.”

After the game, Moses embraced Marcus and Markieff Morris in the handshake line.

“I just told them, ‘Go win the whole thing,’” Moses said. “I think they’re a good team. I think they’re the best team in America, other than Duke, and I think they’re better than Duke.

“I just told them, ‘I respect your guys’ game, and I think y’all should win the national championship.’ I think that’s a national championship-type team.”


Marcus Balzer 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't know about that one Moses. You go back and look at the replay he backed and backed into Mario and made no move to shake him either way. He basically flattened him. You can call that a 'flop' but if I'm Rio I do the same thing. Something like that is a 50/50 call but when you don't do anything move wise that was a correct call. If Moses would have backed into him once and Rio flopped that's a no call, advantage Moses but again when you back into him like that over and over again they are going to call the charge.

Dirk Medema 11 years, 2 months ago

Exactly as spoken during the game, and I believe the exact same call that took out another one of their guys. Backing down a defender with no lateral movement will eventually get you called for a charge.

Interesting that veterans players are not taught that aspect of O. Also interesting that after an entire season, the OSU team is not familiar with a 4 guard line up. Obviously, that's not going to be your primary setup, but to be this late in the year without being prepared for foul trouble may explain why they fnished where they did.

Chris Bruning 11 years, 2 months ago

great sportsmanship go pump some iron

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago


I am writing in regards to your wondering if I really though Self sends his teams out flat to some games.

Oh, my yes he sends them out flat as pancakes again and again....all season long he does this, whenever he thinks he can get away with it. It is SOP with him. He didn't amp them even a little today. Not even a micron.

Self is a charter member of a club that believes there are only so many games a season that a team can get up for emotionally, and that a coach can amp a team for.

There are several dead give aways to these games when he is letting them take the floor flat.

  1. Self always comes out low energy himself in these outings. No spring in his step. No wild emotional swings from jucular to furious and back again. He is plainly not geeked. He is even tempered, except when he starts chewing some one a new one late in a half, if the team has fallen behind.

  2. The team starts out a half step slow and never does manifest full quickness.

  3. There are no wrinkles installed in the offense, or in the defense, to give the team a winning edge.

Selfs sends them out flat as pancakes, without any new weapons to do battle with. New wrinkles and new weapons are empowering to a team. Often the new wrinkles really only serve to help get the team geeked. With no new wrinkles, the team is kind of stale and he lets them struggle for the first 30 minutes before really starting to coach.

Self rides a team like a jockey. He feels them through the reins. Games like today, he never really gets out the whip and he never really signals with his knees down the back stretch to let go and give him everything they've got.

I am surprised so few have caught on to this. I've mentioned it on and off for several years. This is Self's SOP.

He is a gambler at heart. But he gambles on which games he can let his teams win without amping.

Hank Cross 11 years, 2 months ago

If Self really didn't care about winning, why didn't he play Releford or Withey just to shake it up, or even give Selby more minutes to work on his game? Instead he played his security blankets Reed and Brady despite their shooting woes.

You've claimed many times that Self is a gambler, and that couldn't be any further from the truth. His career and coaching style are specifically designed to avoid risk. I think it's very telling that he's never coached at a school that's been more than a day's drive from OK.

If he was a general, he'd be McClellan or Montgomery, not Robert E. Lee or George Patton.

CrimsonMax 11 years, 2 months ago

I've thought the same after watching him coach the Jayhawks these last several years. More of a cautious, wait-and-see type coach than his contemporaries around the league. Evidence: We rarely press; reluctant to switch D's (very little zone); sticks with what works. This might stem from having high-octane, XTReme athletes at nearly every position on the floor, or from being a top-ranked program year-in and year-out. (Other coaches of top-tier clubs are similar in their approach, (read: Coach K, coach roy (cept for his hilarious 5 out 5 in tactic), and so on.

Steve Brown 11 years, 2 months ago

You mean he would be Stonewall Jackson or Bradley not Pickett, Patton or Custer. Correct he is no Patton or Custer but even Ike held Geo back in England on D day not wanting to waste all the bands of brothers on an unsupported offensive fool's rush.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago


I will start with your last errors first.

Patton, much as I admire him on the offensive, was a two-trick pony. He knew how to attack with high mobility and how to stick it to his allies at least as much as his enemies. His obvious willingness to screw his buddy was always why he was never promoted to truly high rank. Read his collected letters and you will see what I mean. Read B.H. Liddell Hart's The History of the Second World War and its the same story. Patton was an arrogant, egocentric phallus, with political savvy, and organizational strategy, at least as poor as his motivational and tactical skills were exceptional.

Self is not remotely George Patton and we can all be grateful for that. Self is an Eisenhower. Hart questioned Eisenhower, because he believed the Second World War went on way to long, which it probably did. But the war went on so long not because of Eisenhower's demand for Unconditional Surrender, but because of FDR and Churchhill's desire for same. Eisenhower fought the war absolutely brilliantly, when you consider his job was essentially an impossible one to win quickly given the Allied alliance's divergent agendas and unconditional surrender terms.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

Self, like Eisenhower, is a guy who can handle all political situations, all strategic, and most tactical situations and turn all of these situations to his advantage. As he has matured, he can handle those above him and those below him equally well. He can massively motivate those below him and hold the confidence of those above him. He wins wars, because of the consistency this allows, not just battles. And he wins 84% of his battles by them together every kind of individual to do it. Finally, like all truly great winning generals (Grant, Wellington), or admirals (Churchill's great grand and pa, King, Nimitz), he understands that there are times when wars are best fought in grinds, and other times when surprise and flanking and lightening advances are the solution. Taking real estate is best fought in the latter way. Truly destroying an enemy requires grinding.

Montgomery? Monty, it turns out, despite how unlikable to we Americans he was, really was quite an exceptional general in many ways. He was a brilliant battle planner and he was used by Eisenhower time and again to do the really heavy lifting, especially in the invasion of Europe. And if Patton hadn't screwed him in Sicily, he surely would have been the hero of that campaign. Basically Patton failed to play his role and so Monty was doomed to bog down. But Monty was not a good delegator, he was prone to screw-your-buddy intrigues at the instigation of Churchill and he couldn't handle Churchill and Monty's superiors nearly as well as Eisenhower handled his. Monty just was not nearly the all around general that Eisenhower proved to be, though Monty, like Bradley and Patton, might well have been Eisenhower's equal, or superior in the field.

Self is absolutely anything but Montgomery.

Now we move on to your cite of McClellan. This was a much misunderstood general IMHO. He was much better than he is given credit for. McClellan understood his and his opponents strengths and weaknesses vastly better than he is given credit for, and he understood the overwhelming superiority of force that would be required to crush the South. McClellan understood that it would take time for the overwhelming industrial and man power of the North to weigh in. He understood clearly that the goal in the early going for the North was not to engage in ways that tipped the advantage it held into a disadvantage. McClellan understood that venturing deeply and foolishly into area the size of the South, a society with a militant, authoritarian culture, and a rail system that enabled unprecedented rail mobility in warfare, that the worst thing the Union could do was dive straight into the South and risk everything for a quick victory that was impossible.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

Instead McClellan sought to amass forces and supplies and technological advantages in the East, and emply that amassing not far from Richmond, to hold Grants armies in the east, while pursuing flanking along the Mississippi valley (the Western theatre) that could eventually lead denying England and France the ability to supply the South from the Carribean. Once the West was won, the South had no chance in a drawn out conflict. From then on, the ports on the Atlantic could be bottled up and the South starved slowly. What most persons have never understood about the pre Gettysburg failures of the North in battles around Richmond, was that Northern generals were just fighting those battles to hold Lee's army's close to Richmond. No one wants to fight a battle and lose, but losing those battles meant nothing in the grand strategy of the war and, though demoralizing to the foot soldiers, were perfectly acceptable outcomes. The key always, and McClellan understood this impeccably, even though Lincoln did less well, was to keep Lee engaged and hold him near Richmond, not let him either roam north, or west, and so go on a true offensive that could alter the Norths inexorably accruing structural advantage and strategic advantage.

Lee, though massively overrated as a general, was no fool either. He knew his early victories were never decisive and proved nothing, but that the North was yet able to martial and organize its superior forces. Grant was a desperate man the entire war, because he understood he had almost no chance of winning, unless England, or France joined the South, and supplied him with overwhelming naval force to go along with the supplies they were feeding him. For Lee to have ever had a chance of winning, he had to hold the Mississippi Valley and acquire control north to Wisconsin, so he could mount the same strategy the North was mounting, which without the English, or French, Lee had no hope of doing.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

And the English and French had no interest in committing their naval and land forces to securing the kind of western flank the South would have needed to attack and crush the North. The French and the English always had one goal: subsidize both sides and keep USA convulsed in civil war until the USA, not just the South, or the North, collapsed. Lee wasted every Southern solidier he ever ordered to battle. Lee, and all the Southern generals, proved fools fighting a lost cause. The brutal truth is that the South fighting the Civil War, without first attracting firm, commitment from either England, or France, was one of the dumbest wars in history. It was committing either the South to almost certain defeat, or the entirety of the USA.

Worship of Lee as a great general ought to be stopped immediately. His single virtue was being a charismatic beloved by his troops. He never won one strategic victory in the civil war, and I suspect his life. His tactical victories were strategic losses. His single greatest battle, Gettysburg, was a collossal failure based almost entirely on his blunders. Read Michael Sciarra's The Killing Angels.

McClellan even understood that losing at Gettysburg would have meant little, so long as the bulk of his Army survived in tact in the West, which it would have had Gettysburg been lost. Without the West, Lee surrounding and sacking Washington would have been largely symbolic. The North would have moved government north to Philadelphia, or more likely New York, or Boston and the inexorable imposition of Northern industrial might would have continued. The Civil War was a war about where the transcontinental rail road would be built--across the North, or across the South--about who would control the transportation monopoly on global trade that would flow from control of both the transcontinental railroad and the Latin American canal that would one day be built either through Panama, or Nicaragua. Slavery was merely a political-economic bone of contention that could be used by France and England as a wedge issue to convulse USA into Civil War, in hopes of eventually regaining the transportation monopoly that control of North America promised. Control of North America could change the global balance of power, because it was the only other way to link Europe with Asia than sailing east from Europe. There was zero chance the financiers in the North would have ever surrendered to, or submitted to an independent South. Doing so would have thrown away the Northern oligarch's chance to control the new pinch point of world trade.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

So with this long digression into McClellan, Lee and the Civil War, does Bill Self seem remotely like McClellan? In the sense that Self always gets the big picture clearly and never loses sight of it, absolutely they are similar.

But McClellan clearly was not a great general of individual battles, nor was he a great motivational general. He could neither hold the respect of his President, nor inspire his men to love and follow him at all costs. And McClellan was not strong a picking inspirational field generals either; that short coming was largely why the tactical battles in the early part of the war were decisively lost.

Self on the other hand has proven himself in the rather childlike game of basketball (as opposed to the horrendously important act of strategic warefare) to be both a great strategist, and a great tactician, who wins 84% of his battles, and has won one major war in 2008. Unlike McClellan, has proven mostly a winner. And he has won by grind-it-out against inferior teams and by lightening strikes against equal, or perhaps superior teams (the UNC semfinal game in 2008).

So you see, your comparisons of Self with Patton, Monty, McClellan, and Lee are all far, far off the mark.

I mentioned Eisenhower, but another general that is worth analyzing is U.S. Grant. Grant proved adept at lightening war in the West, and at grind it out in the east. Grant picked great assistants and field generals. His men came to fight through hell for him. And Grant largely acted with the army and advantageous flank that McClellan and Lincoln had already suffered to build before his arrival, as Larry and Roy had built for KU before Self arrived. But Grant was a drunk that combatted chronic depressions and Eisenhower was a rock solid guy. So: to me Self seems much more like Eisenhower as a person and professional, to what little extent one dare compare a coach in a sport, to a general in warfare.

Though Self is way more charismatic person in many respects than the workman like Eisenhower. And Self doesn't chain smoke. :-)

KUbsee69 11 years, 2 months ago

Totally wrong on all accounts!!! Your assessment of generals must have been used to guide our excursion into Southeast Asia. Absolute jibberish.

The war in Europe would have been over 8 months earlier without Ike and his British ways. The measure of a soldier is in the opinions of his enemies, not his allies. Review the debriefs of the German High Command on their opinions. Monty was a blithering idiot and the ultimate egomaniac. Not a single action he planned was successful. Your hero Ike threatened to resign if Monty did not get out of the way.

Oh, yeah, I'll debate you at home, on the road, or in Africa when it come to WWII.

Hank Cross 11 years, 2 months ago

Absolutely. Had Ike given Patton the gas and the green light in the Summer of '44, the war would've ended that year with the US occupying Germany.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

Now let me address your idea that he would have played Releford, or Withey, or given Selby more work had he really not cared. Putting Selby in a trip fest would have been to put Selby's stress reaction at unecessary risk. He waited until fouls were being called to put Josh in as he should have, and he only asked Josh to try a few treys, not go to the rim where the tripping was going on.

Regarding Releford, it is pretty clear that Releford's ankle is not healed and is not going to heal this season. Putting him in a trip fest would have been a foolish risk also.

Withey I think he might have played had he viewed this game equivalent to a scrimmage.

But Self hardly viewed it as a scrimmage. He tried to win it with what he had. Self made clear that while conference is more important to him thamn the tourney, he says, if you're going to play, you might as well try to win.

So: Self doesn't care if they lose. He's not going to amp them up for the game as he does for big games. He's not going to make the team learn a bunch of new wrinkles for a game like the OSU tourney game. But they are going to go out and give it their best shot with the best players he has, though he is not going to put anyone at risk of further injury, as he probably would in a big game.


KGphoto 11 years, 2 months ago

Hahahaha! I'm am just falling out here.

The sheer volume alone has me laughing. Good lord. I'll finish it later.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

Every game down the stretch of the conference he gave his team new wrinkles and coached most of the games, rather than sat their and let them labor. He does that because he wants to win the conference title for sure, and, if it does, doesn't give a crap about the conference tourney, except as a chance to work on getting better. Self believes teams get better this time of year by laboring for wins, not by him coaching them to victories, or giving them empowering new wrinkles.

These grind it out conference tourney games he contrives for them, once the conference title has been won, are really not much different than pre conference games where he lets them labor for wins.

Self looks at the possible contests in the B12 tourney, knowing it doesn't matter even a little whether they win, or lose them, and says these are final chances for getting better before the Madness, for working on different things, for letting the players work on playing through adversity.

Does he want one point games that force him to have to play his starters a lot of minutes? No, but he prefers such close games to wasting an amping on a meaningless game with a second rate opponent, which OSU was.

Self thought KU could grind a win against OSU and he was right.

Self probably thinks KU can grind a win against CU too.

Against Texas, what he would really like to do is grind a third one, because that would probably allow him to amp them twice in the first round, or maybe not at all in the first round, which would mean he could get them sky high for the second round twice. But he probably will figure he has to amp KU for Texas to enter the Madness with confidence up.

You mention UNI. This makes my case exactly. He gambles sending KU out flat every year on the first round game. He amps the second game, sometimes he even lets them play flat the second game. It all depends on what he think he can get away with.

Self sent KU out flat for Bucknell, for Bradley and UNI and they got upset all three times.

But what people forget is that he sent KU out flat the first game for all of the other Madnesses where KU went much farther.

Why does he do this?

Because he believes, since a team can't get up every game, the job of a coach is to pick the games that he will amp them.

People always forget that in the 2008 Final Four, Self amped KU for UNC, not Memphis.

Self rightly decided KU would need its best game to get by UNC. He gambled that KU could give their peak performance against UNC, and beat Memphis with their B-game. He succeeded.

Self always selects the top teams to amp for and then takes a risk of losing to lesser teams.

It is why Self teams often lose to lesser teams in upsets.

NebraskaJayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

You're not in the locker room with the team before the games and I doubt you have access to triple-insider information....

Amped KU for UNC and not Memphis? What the heck are you talking about dude..

Sometimes I like your long-winded blogs, but this one's kind of lame.

ObiWan 11 years, 2 months ago

Read this last night, and had to go back and reread it this morning. The way Self talks in the preseason indicates that there is some truth to this theory. He will always say there's only X number of games where the team is firing on all cylinders, Y number of games where you can't make shots or move the ball and have to win with defense (or XTReme muscle/cheap-shotting), and Z number of games where you just plain play lousy and are lucky if you come out with a win.

Yesterday was definitely a Z game, with few adjustments made. The only noticeably effective adjustment was inserting Little as the "zone buster," because of his midrange game and ability to make plays from the high post. We were very lucky this worked, but could have just as easily taken a loss, in which case the board rats would be criticizing Self ad nauseum.

And, yes, Self got KU more amped to play UNC than any other game during his tenure at Kansas. The first 15 minutes of that game is the best I've ever seen a team play. I wouldn't say we were flat against Memphis, but we were mostly treading water, happy to stay in the game until that 9 point lead crept up. At that point, the players came together and showed that they had been absorbing Self's lessons all along, and amped themselves up. Much like the Dead Poets Society, they carried on their teacher's lessons without him, thus becoming more powerful than Self had ever imagined.

NebraskaJayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Disagree entirely that Self expects his team to come out and play "flat" for any game and he has never suggested such. What he has done and will continue to do is preach defense. He always wants his team to play with tenacity....on the defensive end of the court especially. To suggest that he amped them up for a semi-final game over the championship game in '08 is just ludicrous and nothing more than a theory.

ObiWan 11 years, 2 months ago

Correct- just a theory. May or may not have any truth to it. Mostly just pontificating to entertain myself at work, while I count the minutes until tonight's game. All for fun, and I completely agree with you that he expects 100% effort on every defensive possession.

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

It is also why Self teams often go deeper than they have a right to, when they do survive the first round.

Hank Cross 11 years, 2 months ago

Last year's team survived the first round.

John Boyle 11 years, 2 months ago

Do you really have anything to say or are you just waiting around to find errors in what others have to say? Come up with some insight of your own accord. Please!

jaybate 11 years, 2 months ago

Moses charged once and didn't get called.

Moses charged twice and Mario flopped and Moses got called.

What kind of a !@#$%ing moron does not understand that is a foul and a foul that will be called 9 times out of 10?

tis4tim 11 years, 2 months ago

Foul me once, shame on you.

Foul me twice, shame on me.

Foul me thrice, shame on the ref for not calling it the first or the second time!

riverdrifter 11 years, 2 months ago

It was a foul all the way. Moses now wanders off into the NIT desert and there ain't no promised land in sight. Later, dude.

Jim Pendleton 11 years, 2 months ago

The other thing here which I was screaming for at the game, was a five second call on Moses before the charge. He stood in the same place with several dribbles and never moved with Mario right on him. Don't know if this was mentioned on TV or radio broadcasts, but I was begging for that call prior to the charge.

Would have been our ball either way, but from our point of view, it was better to foul him out. He always seems to play well against us.

We need to pick up the pace and make more shots, and free throws!. The last three games while wins, were certainly not works of art. People will think it should be easier to beat CU than KSU. People said the same thing today about playing OSU instead of Neb. Be careful what you ask for. Rock Chalk!!

lee3022 11 years, 2 months ago

When Texas A&M chose to play three bigs in the game together it seems logical that they would also know that the fouls would accumulate for these bigs faster as quicker players attacked them. Much of the frustration of the first 30 minutes of the game was alleviated as foul trouble thinned their ranks and ultimately depleted them. It was worth the gamble in hopes that they could steal a game they had no business stealing by playing straight up.

Flat or amped there is no reason for 1-8 and 1-6 from beyond the arc. We need those guys and we need them smarter to drive and become more aggressive when the shots are not falling. Look for zone at times from every team the rest of the season.

100 11 years, 2 months ago

"That's a national championship-type team"


Go take care of some business tomorrow Jayhawks....

Pass, pass, pass & D it up!!!!

(Also go take a bunch of practice shots, get in a gym as early as possible tomorrow).

Rock Chalk boys...

"To do your best.... That is success...."

--John Wooden

CrimsonMax 11 years, 2 months ago

To the point, and on the money! Nice of Moses to be so supportive...

Woody Cragg 11 years, 2 months ago

These thug games don't worry me as in the past. It's the up & downers like NC & Texa$$ we might have a time keeping up with. We can take these ugly ones for sure, but a half step slow against an up-tempo runner...that's why I never wager on emotion. You'll lose more often than not.

Brian Conrad 11 years, 2 months ago

MU plays fast .. we own them.. KU can run with anyone.. I think we are better high speed, but we can slow other teams down. NC will not be around long freshman at the key positions ... Texas tough , but we have the revenge factor and team plays up to competition. last matchup was not real.. KU up all night and such a tough emotional drain... bad thing hope we do not have to use all that energy in big 12 tourney or risk injury...

Jaminrawk 11 years, 2 months ago

For a team that pretty much sucked this year, OSU sure likes to talk. Glad their done.

Jonathan Allison 11 years, 2 months ago

Go back to the library and grade papers.

We don't want the grammar police here.

Everyone makes mistakes. It's the people who correct them that are annoying.

waywardJay 11 years, 2 months ago

NO business arguing calls here. THey played DIRTY DIRTY and stayed in alot longer than they should have.

Good Riddenance, OilPokes.

hewn 11 years, 2 months ago

Same kind of sentiment after the UCLA game from Ben Howland after the foul call against his guy that put Mario Little to the line at the end of that game. Of course the call hurts more than other calls because of the position it puts your team in, but it was still a foul, and was still the correct call. Moses should go watch the replay and compare it to other foul calls earlier in the game. Much more justified than half the fouls KU racked up in the first half.

Ben Kane 11 years, 2 months ago

"I think they’re the best team in America, other than Duke, and I think they’re better than Duke."


KU_FanSince75 11 years, 2 months ago

Mr. Moses, calling Mr. Moses------have you seen that Geico commercial where the drill sargent throws the klinnex box at the client laying down-----that client laying down is you, bubba. Wah, Wah, Wah----cry me a river, as Justin Timberlake would say. Good luck in the NIT.

BTW, the officiating was bad on both sides. We just happened to survive Thursday.

NebraskaJayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Wow guys.....he had nothing but good to say about the Kansas team and wished them well in the NCAA. His beef was with the officials, not you. I'm not saying it's good to gripe about officiating, but good grief....have you ever read these boards when things don't go our way? Talk about cry me a river....

KGphoto 11 years, 2 months ago

Moses definitely grew on me after the last couple of games. Nobody is playing any harder than him in those games. Not for OSU, and not for KU. The only guy with that type of aggressiveness on rebounds is TRob, and I'd say Moses was even a little scarier ripping down boards. A couple times, I backed away from the TV with little "Whoa". Playing PF at 6'6" takes some serious toughness. He reminds me a lot of Charles Barkley. ESPN lists him at 215. LOL! He's 250 if he's a pound.

He gave a good fight, and didn't back down an inch. Afterwards he handed out some pretty serious compliments to KU. I'd take him at KU any day. And I'm glad we don't have to play him anymore.

The dude is gonna stick somewhere in the Association for quite a while.

Jonathan Allison 11 years, 2 months ago

I agree with everything that you just said, except I wouldn't bet money on the last sentence...

KGphoto 11 years, 2 months ago

Perhaps a stretch. But there is always a niche in the NBA for enforcers. And for a 250-260 pound guy, he's an incredible athlete.

KGphoto 11 years, 2 months ago

BTW, plastic. In checking the draft boards, to your credit I don't see him anywhere. But I still believe he will get there.

What I do see on almost every single 2-round mock draft, is 5 Jayhawks.

The Morrii and Selby are top 20 in all. TRob is 1st round in almost all. And Tyshawn is going in every draft. I don't know how accurate that will be, but I checked at least 7-10 different ones.

Just imagine what this team might look like next year. Yikes. OkieSt. might just be thumping us.

HawkKlaw 11 years, 2 months ago

Remember after the 2007-08 season when we lost all five starters? We still won the Big 12 in the 2008-2009 season. Last year three of our stars went to the NBA (only 2 losses all year), and this year we're still on top of the Big 12 (only 2 losses thus far). Fear not, Bill Self will have a competitive team next year, and the year after that, and the year after that...

yates33333 11 years, 2 months ago

It was a foul, and any referee worth his salt would have called it. Period!!!

Eric Williams 11 years, 2 months ago

I agree with Moses... bad call and Mario wins the Oscar.

Moses did the exact same move 3 times before Mario decided to flop. He was barely making contact.

But, just to point out another bad call, how does Brady get a foul called when he's laying on the floor and steals the ball from the guy dribbling?

Jim Stauffer 11 years, 2 months ago

To say Self would be a McClellan is to raise the question of when he will get fired like McClellan did.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 2 months ago

And to think, I almost thought we could get a game with Oklahoma State without Moses running his mouth.

milehighhawk 11 years, 2 months ago


Zero people besides him want to hear some pedantic explanation of World War II and how it relates to some conspiracy about Self wanting his team to come out flat. Truly bizarre ramblings.

jlvlawrence 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm sick and tired of the long and extremely pretentious posts by jaybate.

tis4tim 11 years, 2 months ago

Don't like it? Don't read it. That's how I scroll.

CrimsonMax 11 years, 2 months ago

Jaybate is a fixture here and his "ramblings" as u put it, often help me collect the pieces after the ever so rare L.

Jared Grillot 11 years, 2 months ago

Doesn't the NCAA have some sort of rule against criticizing the refs? Or is that just for coaches?

11 years, 2 months ago

Good question. I was wondering the same thing. According to the 2009-10 Big 12 Handbook:

12.3.2 Comments about Officiating. Coaches, student-athletes, and members of the athletics department staff are prohibited from making any public comment regarding the game officials or the officiating at any contest. The public airing of officiating matters, whether directly or indirectly, during or after a game, verbally or by use of video, on or off the record, is prohibited.

12.4.5 Penalties. The penalties that may be imposed by the Commissioner for violation of these standards may include, but are not limited to, private and public reprimand, institutional fines, and suspension from practice and/or competition.

My guess is Moses will be suspended for at least their next game if they play in the NIT, CBI, etc. On the outside change they aren’t invited to a post-season tournament, it will likely be a non-issue since he is a senior.

11 years, 2 months ago

Sorry about the formatting. That’s what I get for copying and pasting instead of retyping it :^)

Jared Grillot 11 years, 2 months ago

Forgot that he was a senior. Yeah, probably a slap on the wrist.

JJHawq 11 years, 2 months ago

That's the call we couldn't get vs Texas ATM. It's the right call otherwise the post defender has no chance.

RockChalk26 11 years, 2 months ago

See you next year OkieState. I know one thing, they will be a team to recon with next year.

Roy Delano Loren 11 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

CrimsonMax 11 years, 2 months ago

Who is this UNTHAWK person? And what has he done for Kansas Basketball?

KGphoto 11 years, 2 months ago

That is too funny. I remember thinking almost the same thing when I started on here years ago. But I quickly learned. You will too.

jaybate kinda runs the show unthawk. Keep reading. You'll get it.

Eric Williams 11 years, 2 months ago

lol, he runs the show? wow, you guys bow down to him like he built up KU basketball.

Personally, I like many others find his diatribes annoyings.

But instead of complaining, I just scroll past to the next comments.

NebraskaJayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

I would have to agree with you. On a whole, his writings are a bit annoying. But I will take it a step further and say that he is an individual that more than likely enjoys listening to himself talk in a crowd.....or type in this instance.

There have been some posts in the past that I have enjoyed....but they are few and far between. This one made no sense whatsoever and his theory about "amping" is just stupid.

To gain the kind of insight he thinks he has about Coach Self, one would have to be extremely close to him. I really doubt Bill Self tucks his wife into bed every night and then goes downstairs to share all of his intimate secrets with Jaybate.

jlvlawrence 11 years, 2 months ago

Runs the show my ass. I've been reading this site for a few years now and his long drawn out posts have become tiresome.

HawkKlaw 11 years, 2 months ago

Here's how to properly handle a jaybate post: Scroll....scroll...keep scrolling....ah, finally, a post from someone other than jaybate. The funny thing is, when jaybate does post a short comment, I do read it, and he/she has some pretty great insight. I just don't like to take 3 or 4 hours to find that insight in the vast majority of his/her posts.

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