Tuesday, February 15, 2011


Recurring Morris twins trouble especially disturbing

Kansas forward Marcus Morris complains about a bad pass after a Jayhawk turnover during the first half on Monday, Feb. 14, 2011 at Bramlage Coliseum.

Kansas forward Marcus Morris complains about a bad pass after a Jayhawk turnover during the first half on Monday, Feb. 14, 2011 at Bramlage Coliseum.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 84-68 loss to Kansas State on Feb. 14, 2011.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU players Tyrel Reed and Mario Little

Kansas players Tyrel Reed and Mario Little talk to reporters following the Jayhawks' 84-68 loss to Kansas State on Feb. 14, 2011.

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— If it merely had been a case of the Kansas University basketball team not having the humility to handle the prosperity of holding the No. 1 ranking in the nation, no big deal.

KU won’t have that problem again, after getting bullied, 84-68, Monday night in Bramlage Coliseum by a Kansas State team that rode its star to a season-saving victory. The Jayhawks (24-2) won’t play as No. 1 anymore, and the stink of such an awful performance ought to linger long enough to carry them into the postseason with enough sense to know if they don’t bring their best every night, they won’t last long.

The memory of a sea of purple spilling onto the court will create an edge, always a good thing to bring into March Madness.

It’s the threat of a recurring, self-defeating trait resurfacing at another inopportune time, the annoying sub-plot of an otherwise successful season, that could undermine KU’s attempt to get to Houston, site of the Final Four.

That, of course, would be the penchant for one of the Morris twins to act impulsively and get whistled for an intentional foul. It didn’t hurt his team when Markieff Morris got called for one against Missouri’s Justin Safford. Against K-State, Markieff’s arm made contact with Jacob Pullen’s face, which didn’t slow the senior guard from Chicago enough to keep him from torching KU with 38 points.

By that point in the game, Markieff’s twin, Marcus, had been whistled for two fouls. Markieff’s second foul, the intentional one, gave him a seat next to his brother. Thomas Robinson, recovering from knee surgery, wasn’t there to bail them out. That chore went to Jeff Withey, who couldn’t cut it defensively, and Mario Little, who was hell-bent on shooting Kansas back into it and kept firing blanks.

On a night Kansas was in too big a hurry all game, nobody hurried more than Little. Oh well, at least he led the team with five rebounds. And he’s not counted on to lead this team. That responsibility falls on the Morris twins, terrific players on most nights, the nights they don’t get in their own way.

Back during the nonconference portion of the schedule, it was Marcus Morris who unleashed a high elbow and got tossed from a road victory against California.

Days after Markieff’s loss of composure against Missouri, his coach, Bill Self, talked about how the twins are marked men and have to be aware of that. He mentioned referees think of them as a tandem, and when one twin does something foolish, both get branded as trouble-makers.

“We’ve addressed it consistently all year,” Self said then. “We’ve had different things to try to help them understand the importance of playing smart and that stuff all the time.”

Self expressed confidence the message had been absorbed.

“I really believe we’re not going to have any more issues with that moving forward,” Self said. “I don’t believe that will be the case at all.”

He believed it, and he was wrong. It’s not on him. It’s on the players to strike the proper balance and play intense, physical basketball without letting that spill into non-basketball plays that bring unnecessary whistles.

Pullen, intent on paying back Tyshawn Taylor for out-playing him in Lawrence, would have won this game even if Markieff hadn’t played just eight minutes in the first half, even if Marcus weren’t forced back into the game to play the rest of the half with two fouls because to do otherwise would have been to dig a deeper ditch.

Pullen has put so much on his back in this season of K-State underachieving a year after it overachieved all the way to the Elite Eight. At times, he’s taken too much upon himself and hasn’t looked like the same player.

He never looked better than he looked Monday, and he wasn’t going to let his team lose. Kansas resorted to a triangle-and-two and tried a platoon of defenders on him after Taylor couldn’t get near him. None of it worked because Pullen didn’t let it work. He drove so relentlessly to the hoop he attempted 19 free throws, made 15, and hit five of six three-point shots.

On this night, more than any, with Pullen going off, Robinson unavailable, the crowd jacked to dethrone No. 1 and a desperate team battling to pull it all together, composure was a must, and Kansas didn’t have it. Markieff returned in the second half, but he didn’t bring his multi-faceted game with him. In 20 minutes, he didn’t bring down a single rebound and scored three points. Marcus had 13 points, three rebounds, three steals and four turnovers. Taylor had one assist and six turnovers.

Aside from a costly turnover when Kansas was making a first-half run, reserve Elijah Johnson had done some nice things. He even slowed Pullen a little for a couple of solid defensive stretches. Then Johnson reached new heights, throwing down a dunk. He immediately took it to new depths, jawing at Jordan Henriquez-Roberts and getting whistled for a technical.

Trash-talking in self-worship with his team down 14 points and 5:55 left on the clock? That would be akin to a hitter popping out of the dugout for a ninth-inning curtain call after a solo shot with his team trailing, 9-1. Somebody please help me understand that line of thinking. On exactly what planet does that make even a shred of sense? Neptune? Jupiter? Mars? Where?


Hank Cross 11 years, 9 months ago

An absolutely boorish, classless, listless performance. It had something for every detractor. The twins acting stupidly. TT with senseless TOs. Brady contributing nothing on offense in terms of his minutes. Travis not making shots and missing free throws. Selby going MIA.

But, it was good that they finally played a B12 other than UT that didn't immediately grab their ankles for KU. Now they know that a team with some talent and a lot of intensity can kick their teeth in if they don't bring their A game.

LngTimeFan 11 years, 9 months ago

Agree oxcal. Taylor is a huge problem for this team. His attitude is poor, he ignores Coach, thinks he is a superstar, makes ridiculous mistakes for a Jr. He needs to get with the program NOW, keep his mouth shut, play defense every time down the court, or sit at the end of the bench and watch. He will cause a huge loss at a key time in the tournament. Let someone else play point, he sure isn't the guy. He makes the twins look worse than their own immaturity makes them appear.

ralphralph 11 years, 9 months ago

Re - Markieff It's Bill Self's fault. He needed to do a Frank Martin on Markieff after he punched that guy in the face in the previous game. He needed to be screamed at and sent to the locker room. Those things become habits, and they tend to pop up at the most inconvenient times. Better to bench the guy in a regular season game, and help break his "thug" habit, than to have it show up in the NCAA Tourney and get him tossed.

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 9 months ago

I can see where you come from on this, but his behavior, while still stupid at times, is light years better than when he first arrived on campus. My friend and I used to joke about him shanking someone. Maybe coach has done a better job than you're giving him credit for and the guy is just taking forever to learn how to be composed.

Michael Pannacciulli 11 years, 9 months ago

yea, blame the coach. sure. kieff is the fool here, not bill. two words for kieff...grow up.

HawkBBall 11 years, 9 months ago

Kieff and Marcus both need to be disciplined, more than what Coach has given to date. Both continue to whine on every call. Both talk back to the Coach when he tries to instruct. This attitude affects their play. Zero rebounds for someone 6'11". Henriquez and Samuels making easy layups time and again.

Tyshawn lacks the mental ability to concentrate. Why is he the starting point guard?

Josh is pouting for not starting, so he just stands around and watches the others.

Maybe Coach Self should have pulled a Roy Williams in the first half and substituted five guys from the bottom of the roster. Something has to get through to these prima donnas.

justinryman 11 years, 9 months ago

The way the Morris twins are acting, it reminds me of what Demarcus Cousins was doing last year, cheap fouls, bad temper, think you are greater than thw whole.

I guess they really did want to play for Calipari?????????

ancient_hawk 11 years, 9 months ago

No, you don't let them off the hook mentally by putting in the scrubs and giving them the illusion that they could have pulled it together given enough time. You let them own the bitter taste.

texasdochawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, Josh has three very bad role models to learn this pouty attitude, the juniors on the team.

By the way, why would Josh expect to start when he hasn't practiced in two weeks and no one knows what he can do in a real game on that foot anyway?!

cthawk 11 years, 9 months ago

I have been a proud Jayhawk for many years and am proud to wear KANSAS on my shirt, car, sweats, etc. But what the twins and others are doing makes us all look bad. That is not the kind of KANSAS that we all represent and not the way we want to be portrayed. They need to realize that they are getting national attention and their bad behavior reflects negatively on all of us. How do they think that players like Reed, Moriningstar and Robinson plus others (all true gentlemen) are affected by their actions?? They need to grow up NOW or stop playing. I would rather have a losing team than one that redicules OUR UNIVERSITY that we all take such great pride in.
HSBC it's time to take control.

Hank Cross 11 years, 9 months ago

You mean the same Brady that got a DUI, which is worse than anything the twins ever did on the court. BTW Brady's no stranger to the cheap shot himself. I saw him give a completely unnecessary forearm shiver at the Cal game.

cthawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Brady did his time and paid for his indiscretion. Making a mistake and learning from it is one thing, repeating a mistake and hurting everyone around you is another.

squawkhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

The twins don't deserve to wear "KANSAS" on their jerseys. They are an embarrassment to the university.

Jason Wilson 11 years, 9 months ago

Brady Morningstar was fantastic. It only looked like he "contributed nothing" because he didn't take poor shots or force the ball. When the other 3 (or 4 if Reed wasn't on the floor) players are jacking up bad shots, why should Morningstar start doing the same? He had 4 open looks and he took 4 shots and he scored 6 points. That's very efficient.

6 pts, 3 assists, 2 steals, 0 turnovers. Morningstar was great last night, and the last thing we needed was another player trying to take shots that weren't there.

TT was the worst part of last night. So many turnovers, so little effort... on one of the TOs he just stood there and watched the ball bounce away for a couple seconds.

hawkhoops 11 years, 9 months ago

Brady is always great. Too many people think you have to score points to have a good game. The ball moves when he's on the court. As was said on TV, Brady plays for the team, Selby plays to prove HIMSELF. How many assists were blown for B last night? Very seldom does Self not have Reed or M-star on the court.

Self needs to quit worrying the "stars" leaving because he upsets them. They're going to leave just like X did. They need to think about right now, not next year.

Hank Cross 11 years, 9 months ago

If 6 pts, 3 assists, 2 steals, 0 turnovers is "fantastic" and "great," then what words do you use to describe what Jimmer does every game? You obviously have a different definition of these words.

hawkhoops 11 years, 9 months ago

Yes, great. True basketball people know what Brady is worth. It isn't always what shows up on the stat line that makes the biggest difference. He does the little things that are huge, that basketball ignorant people, who need a stat line to tell them who played a "great" game don't understand. He plays for the team, not his stat line. Haven't seen him pout or threaten to transfer when he doesn't start.

Hank Cross 11 years, 9 months ago

Wouldn't NBA GMs be "true BB people"? Let's see if they even give Brady a try-out.

hawkhoops 11 years, 9 months ago

He's playing college basketball. He played a great college basketball game. He doesn't have to play in the NBA to be a great college ball player. Just because they aren't NBA material doesn't keep them from being good, great or fantastic college players. Really, how many get to the NBA anyway???????

Sam Brockert 11 years, 9 months ago

To be honest, Self Said Selby wasn't suppose to play, so he probably wasn't completely all there.

knightmare34 11 years, 9 months ago

Losing is bad enough, but I'm really upset by the lack of composure tonight and throughout the season. This is not Kansas basketball. The actions that lead to technical fouls and ejections have to stop NOW. They are embarrassing for the program and disrespectful to those who have worn Kansas jerseys in the past - those who have won (and lost) with class.

rwhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Agree! I hate the whining and baby acts that some of these guys demonstrate after they foul or something doesn't go their way.

squawkhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

It is amazing how the act and respond when they finally play a decent team. I blame Self for not preparing this team by scheduling patsy non-con teams to pad his resume. He needs to start scheduling like Frank Martin. Yeah they lose some games but they seem better prepared when it comes tourney time.

actorman 11 years, 9 months ago

Couldn't have said it better myself -- especially the last paragraph. This team can look so beautiful at times, and then they can do so many things that make you scratch your head and wonder. I was watching alone and yet felt the need at one point to yell out, "Grow the f*** up!" at the KU team.

This was obviously one of those games where nothing went right, yet they showed the full complement of things that could cost them in the tournament: passes that made no sense, immature and idiotic behavior, and poor free throw shooting when there was even the slightest chance to come back. I'd like to believe that this game was a fluke, but there is definitely cause for concern.

jayhawker_97 11 years, 9 months ago

"Somebody please help me understand that line of thinking. On exactly what planet does that make even a shred of sense? Neptune? Jupiter? Mars? Where?"

simple, don't go too far, Mr. Keegan. that happens on our beloved planet Earth. lots of explanation if you have played bball in the past or play now. EJ got so pumped up that he wanted to get under Henriquez thin skin. intimidation. this action could actually spark a better-than-solo performance of EJ's if he was clear to play on. he just got his confidence built by that thunderous slam. but, too bad, he didn't know that this action is considered unsportsmanship. that happens a_lot in ncaa, nba, why did you pick on him? enough already with the complaints on the Twins!! geez..........

rwhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Why not enough with the praise of the twins? They played awful and have built a poor reputation that certainly precedes them. I am glad Keegan isn't producing a bunch of homer journalism.

However, I do agree with you about EJ. The kid is just emotional and he was really excited. He'll learn. He had an extremely frustrating game. It seemed every time he made a mistake and got pulled he was really upset.

tdub 11 years, 9 months ago

Agreed. Self needs to review the tape, and he'll see EJ was BY FAR the most consistent defender on Pullen. At some point he's got to be allowed to play through some mistakes, lord knows Tyshawn does.

ancient_hawk 11 years, 9 months ago

I hope Bill monitors this site, so he can take advantage of your excellent advice to review the tape.

Do you have a newsletter that I can perhaps subscribe to?


Andy Tweedy 11 years, 9 months ago

I didn't mind EJ at all...other than Reed, that was the only emotion I saw all night, save TT pouting around the court.

Allin Herring 11 years, 9 months ago

How can someone support the actions of EJ is beyond me. He is no better than a tier 2 bench player who is probably playing more than he should. And the trash talking foul was one of the most stupid plays I have ever seen a KU player make especially when you were down by as many points as we were It certainly is NOT the Kansas way. And it isn't enough on the Twins! When will they understand that all this cheap shot trash talking street basketball is not appropriate on a Kansas Basketball team EVER!!!......geez

David Hodges 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm sorry... name another "tier 2 bench player" with his athleticism? And, "most stupid plays i have ever seen a KU player make"; First year watching the Hawks? The twins need to grow up... agreed, but I completely disagree on your first two statements. The EJ technical gets called all the time; it's basketball... people get amped up. EJ a tier 2 bench player... I can only think of a few teams that he wouldn't start or be the first guy off the bench for. His athleticism alone is astounding, he has a versatile offensive game, and he proved last night he can give solid defensive minutes on high caliber players. Don't forget these are KIDS boiling over with emotions they are still learning to control. Thats not an excuse... it's the truth, I know many adults that still have issues controlling their emotions. And again, I agree on the twins... as soon as things appear to be sinking in, proof to the contrary is provided.

MIZNIT 11 years, 9 months ago

Worst post i've seen on here in a long time...

JHawk74 11 years, 9 months ago

EJ has a solid game other than the trash talking after the massive dunk. He deserves more playing time. I think we would be a better team if Taylor would be the back up point guard and allow EJ to start.

dylans 11 years, 9 months ago

We would be a better team if we Self didn't play Xavier 1/2 the minutes he got and gave the other minutes to EJ. Imagine how much better he would be this year...or next year if Selby hadn't been stealing his minutes. Throw that out the window if Selby comes back next year like some of KU's other OND ie Rush and Wright.

Bill Kackley 11 years, 9 months ago

Go back and watch the NBA. I almost never watch it, just for that reason, grown men making millions of dollars and acting like little boys. If Twins keep this up, I really hope they opt for the NBA. Don't knock Keagan. Great article. Right on the money.

whats_going_on 11 years, 9 months ago

I feel exactly the same way. I HATE the NBA because they are just rich little b*tches who whine about anything and everything. Ugh.

ralphralph 11 years, 9 months ago

EJ got so pumped up that he wanted to get under Henriquez thin skin. ???

Did you see the replay? Henriquez Roberts just turned his head and kept running up the Court.

Some intimidation. Some thin skin.

EJ = what an immature idiot.

ralphralph 11 years, 9 months ago

EJ got so pumped up that he wanted to get under Henriquez thin skin. ???

Did you see the replay? Henriquez Roberts just turned his head and kept running up the Court.

Some intimidation. Some thin skin.

EJ = what an immature idiot.

KEITHMILES05 11 years, 9 months ago

It's time for Mother Morris to have a talk with her sons. Enough is enough! Grow up guys and act like mature men and not boys.

RockCaCO3 11 years, 9 months ago

I was thinking that exact thing last night.

squawkhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

You can take the thug out of the hood but you can't take the hood out of the thug!

squawkhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

You can take the thug out of the hood but you can't take the hood out of the thug!

Ashwin Rao 11 years, 9 months ago

We are very immature. Simple! The team can play the best Basketball in NCAA, and the the following week we get big in our heads and leave a stinker. These are not coachable things. The 18 year olds have to grow up and remember that if they want their next stop to be NBA, they better get their acts together. Only Reed is someone you can count on, at this point.

fansincewilt 11 years, 9 months ago

I agree. Last night was embarrassing. This team needs poise. Our seniors, Tyrel and Brady are excellent. They play with intensity and poise. I wish they could step up and lead this team. They need to stay on the Morris' twins backs for their stupidity. Tyshawn is still up and down. And I agree, what was Johnson doing trash talking when you are down 20? Selby also has a nice demeanor even though he is young. I say start Robinson, Selby, Morningstar, Reed and probably Marcus. The twins have so much potential but they are ruining their college career. At the very least Mk should be benched and Robinson starts just as soon as he gets back. They will face just as much adversity when they get on the floor with one of the Big East teams or whoever they face in the sweet sixteen. At this point, I am expecting the same results as last night. They had better get themselves re focused and their mouths under control or this tourney run will be cut short again. Refs don't seem to appreciate our style of play. They weren't out to get us last night. They just didn't want someone to intentionally getting their teeth knocked out. Come on guys, this is not the Jayhawk way.

Bob Forer 11 years, 9 months ago

My message to K-State:

Bobby Knight had it right in his post-game analysis. We came into the game full of ourselves. I thought we learned an unforgettable lesson after being Forakhmaneshed in last year's tourney. No such luck. This time, we got Pullenized but good. And don't get me wrong, its wasn't just Pullen; your entire squad came together and played like a team. We, on the other hand, played like a bunch of petulant , obnoxious children.

Yes, we played poorly. But it would be intellectually dishonest to blame it on the absence of TRob and Selby's lame foot. We're deep enough and talented enough to play though such adversity. Your Wildcat team made us play poorly. You beat us at every facet of the game--rebounding, turnovers, shooting, defense, hustle, mental focus, etc. etc.

You guys really wanted this game, but that's easier said than done, considering your heartbreak loss to Colorado just two days ago. It takes guts and drive and heart to play like you did after the ups and downs of a once promising season.

Just remember. Enjoy a few sips of the Kool-Aid, but stay sober. If you can whup a very good Kansas team, there's no reason you can't end your season with a string of victories.

The Big XII could use another Kansas team in the tourney.

Laura Hrabak 11 years, 9 months ago

Bob Knight is NEVER right! Worst announcing ever ..."he should have gone with a shot fake"

hawkhoops 11 years, 9 months ago

You are showing how little you actually know about basketball with this statement. You don't have to like him, but you dang sure better appreciate his basketball knowledge. He's sure won a lot of games for someone who is always wrong. Coach says it how it is, no favs., doesn't care who you are. Do something right, he says so. Do something wrong, and you dang sure hear it.

Laura Hrabak 11 years, 9 months ago

Bob Knight is NEVER right! Worst announcing ever ..."he should have gone with a shot fake"

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 9 months ago

Bobby Knight. He is usually correct and in this case, I'd say that was probably true. He made comments last year about Sherron Collins and his over-inflated view of his own skill set and said he felt he should be benched. Most Kansas fans disagreed... but all the NBA talent scouts listened. By the end of the year, that's exactly what they were saying, "Over-inflated view of his own talents." Now why is that? Perhaps they believed Bobby was a credible source? Perhaps they realized it on their own.

Either way, when it comes to basketball and strategy, there are few who know more than Bobby Knight or his pupil, Coach K.

As for announcing. I really like Bobby. He's a teacher and he talks strategy. He doesn't BS about other games and he certainly doesn't dumb the game down. I'm thankful every time I see him announce for Kansas. That's one more game someone isn't yelling "Ya Baby!"

Geekinout 11 years, 9 months ago

Someone needs to get a life if they take that much time posting on their rivals message boards. Typical K-stater little brother mentality.

yates33333 11 years, 9 months ago

There is something dreadfully wrong at the core of this team that the press doesn't know about and that Bill Self isn't telling about. The problem must be deeper than physical injuries. Character and relationships are difficult matters to fathom.

itcfan 11 years, 9 months ago

Had you ever considered that in all games all of the starting underclassmen, most of all TT, are stupid and quite lazy. You can't coach a fast playing team when the players you go to are so slow coming down the court.

itcfan 11 years, 9 months ago

Had you ever considered that in all games all of the starting underclassmen, most of all TT, are stupid and quite lazy. You can't coach a fast playing team when the players you go to are so slow coming down the court.

Alan Mills 11 years, 9 months ago

Where are all the Keegan haters? Where are the feel-good posters? Still trying to wrap their heads around that game? Listen to Coach Self's post game comments. He hit it on the head. "A beat down." The Jayhawks looked as bad as any KU team I can remember last night. Very little character displayed last night. Many of the same flaws we've seen all year against teams far less talented that K-State. Ego. Inability to hit the outside shot. Free throw woes. Inability to stop guards, deep or on the drive. Silly, costly turnovers. What made last night most difficult to swallow was that it came on the heels of some of the best basketball this team has played. Maybe there is a silver lining? Perhaps it is good to lay an egg like this now, instead of in March? I, for one, will be very interested to see how this team responds down the stretch. After last night, I'm not sure what to expect.

walter_sobchak 11 years, 9 months ago

How essentially meaningless any single win or loss is in the regular season for college hoops' national contenders. Just win six straight in late March/early April. Boom roasted.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 9 months ago

It's always nice when a 50 year old man with zero experience blasts a team of 20 year old boys rather than just report the news. It makes all the blasting he gets for his opinionated, off-the-cuff, moronic and seemingly drunk sounding journalism seem, well, justified.

Shut up Tom.

You're not Bobby Knight.

rwhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

You a sports writer? Who do you write for? Its always nice when an opinionated, off-the-cuff, (I won't do it) and (well, I'll assume your not drunk at 6:15am) poster blasts a writer who's job includes both reporting news and giving strong opinions to provoke reader interest.

Don't shut up, Jp81.

You're not Charles Barkley.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 9 months ago

Nope. I'm also not a paid REPORTER. I'm just some guy who takes 5 minutes while at home to talk about my Jayhawks. Sadly, there are paid reporters who for some reason never actually report. They just lambaste us with god awful opinion pieces disguised as reporting.

Usually the comments by non-reporters are more valuable than actual reports (or are the editorials. Keegan. I'm confused. What is your job?).

rwhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

My suspicion is that Keegan's job is to actually write opinions like this. He gets paid, they print his work, and he keeps doing it and they keep paying him. Maybe your beef should be with the Journal-World and not Keegan. (I noticed that Keegans article has 352 posts this morning...I bet that is exactly what LJW is paying Keegan to provoke).

My questions about the job was simply to imply that to call Keegan out because he doesn't have bball experience is like you calling him out without paid journalism experience. Double standard. However, my disagreement is not that I think you should not have your opinion, my disagreement is that I think both you and Keegan, despite your official experience, can both have your opinions.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 9 months ago

Keegan is the Sports Editor for the Journal World.

I chose not to take a career in Journalism. Instead, I chose a job in information management. Yes, I'm paid to evaluate information. That's my job.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 9 months ago

Dude, you are arguing with the guy that said I was immature on the other forum because I "probably" only had a bachelor's degree. Your sarcastic arguments will not phase those with no logic in the first place.

Ultimate pwn on me too, I only have a bachelor's degree from KU. I have to head back to school so I can reply to him.

RockCaCO3 11 years, 9 months ago

Not sure if you watched the game last night, but Keegan (I cant believe I'm going to say this) was dead on.

UmbertoConforti 11 years, 9 months ago

Don't blame Keegan. He didn't play. Maybe if he had we've done better.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 9 months ago

my point exactly. Opinions are opinions.because they lack facts. Journalists are paid to report facts... unless your a sports journalist. Apparently that's a free pass to blather about your own opinions and not report. I'm still waiting for Keegan to report the facts about anything other than his bloated ego.

Lacy Mohler 11 years, 9 months ago

JP81 -- Is Keegan only 50? He looks much older. I get where you are coming from. This team wasn't playing very well, but squeaking out wins-- until after the Texas loss. Then they were great for a few games, but they are still the same guys---immature idiots. The #1 came at a terrible time. The guys are wracked with injuries and going into Manhattan right after the Wildcats embarassing loss to Colorado-- these guys were just knucklehead enough to believe they actually were #1. So were the fans. We all got disappointed last night. Now we are mad, and Tom is mad because he predicted KU to win by 12 and will be getting guff about that.

Tom's blast isn't revealing anything new--just letting off steam and it won't change anything. Who outside of a few Jayhawk Nation reads Keegan? These guys are who they are. They have never pretended otherwise. I get frustrated with them, but maybe it is also why I like them so much.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 9 months ago

Thanks mate. At least one person gets it. Everything the man writes is opinion... and yet, he's paid to report facts. Bobby Knight always called guys like this out for the morons that they are. People may not like Bobby's announcing (quite frankly, I think he's great), but at least he actually knows the game of basketball and can offer educated opinions on the game. I'm so tired of sports writers with zero experience and a wealth of opinions. Tom Keegan is the Dickie V of Kansas Basketball. He has absolutely nothing to add and he will never shut up about it.

kcglowboy 11 years, 9 months ago

I am NOT a Keegan fan. But this column was outstanding. Don't shoot the messenger.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 9 months ago

It's not a column. A column reports facts. It's an editorial by a nobody reporter with an over inflated opinion of his own talents (kinda like a little point guard he championed last season). The players played bad last night. That was clear. But Keegan's "editorial" does everything to disguise itself as a real report and I find that 100% disgraceful.

Fans go nuts about players having a bad night. Fine. I expect that. They ain't paid to "report. That certainly doesn't give a PAID media member with absolutely zero credibility (what does Tom Keegan know about college basketball except what he's watched while eating popcorn from the stands?) the right to write opinion pieces full of his loaded viewpoint to fire the flames of the fans. You'll note, my opinon of Keegan and his "editorials" is the only thing in this room that's unwaivering. When he writes a BS piece he shouldn't write, I'm going to call him for it... no matter if we win or lose. It's crap and he shouldn't be writing it, let alone be allowed championed for publishing it.

ancient_hawk 11 years, 9 months ago

While I am seldom impressed with Keegan's knowledge of the X's and O's, he's just as qualified as anybody to address ATTITUDE.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 9 months ago

It's not about qualifications to address attitude. It's about it being unethical for him to do so and mask it as a report (something for which you and I agree he is unqualified to write.)

whats_going_on 11 years, 9 months ago

Except that there was no one decent to replace the twins and no one to replace Taylor, since Selby wasnt doing anything either.

Jared Grillot 11 years, 9 months ago


Or 10, or more.

Every time. They catch you every time, guys. Why can't you get it through your heads that they are going to call it?

You let the whole team down.

86finalfour 11 years, 9 months ago

I've never seen a self team with such bad defense. A loss on the road with a rival is understandable but they got blown away!

Allowing 84 points to a bad offensive team is what's alarming. As a KU fan, I don't expect them to win every game but I have a hard time seeing them win even 4 games in the tourney with Taylor at the Point Guard.

Really hope I'm wrong -- RCJH!

Michael Maris 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm tired of the Thuggish attitudes that the Morris Twins bring to games. By rights, they should have to sit for a couple of games (I believe that the Big XII Officials need to eject them for their thuggish behavior). Morris Twins, you are NOT playing backyard ball in State of Jersey anymore. Marcus, you stated after losing to Northern Iowa in March of 2010 that that would not happen again. You stated that you would be a leader. Well, you display of leadership qualities is still lacking much to be desired.

3 K-State Players had career nights (basically). Yet, the 3 Juniors seem to display the attitude of I'm going to beat the S**T out of you (if I/we can't beat you on the court).

Now, it appears that Elijah Johnson is picking up on the same attitude. Sherron Collins and Cole Aldrich were prime Good Sportsman. One thing that Ole Roy did (when players weren't playing up to standards), was pull them off of the court and allow them to watch the bench players for about 5 to 10 minutes to get rid of their selfishness attitudes.

Tyshawn, Marcus, Markieff, it is PRIME Time to get RID of your Selfish Attitudes and become Team Players.

Tyshawn, learn to use the damn backboard (when your driving into the damn lane to break down the defense). You'll find that square on the backboard is there for a reason. It's isn't there for a Picture Frame (of your KU Career).

kerbyd 11 years, 9 months ago

I think we need to remember that the team that spanked us last night has played just as poorly as we did. Maybe this team thinks that because it has been through such adversity of late, and it definitely has been through some, it gets a free pass. Yes, it was a pretty pathetic game but it was just one game.

jayhawkinATL 11 years, 9 months ago

The recurring problems with the Morris twins will be the death of us...just watch!!!!! Apparently, Coach Self was fooled into thinking the issues with the twins have been resolved. Just plain punks at this point!!!!!

rwhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

I doubt he was fooled, maybe hopeful. More likely is that last week's comment was probably coach speak. He couldn't come out and say, "Well, I think the twins will continue to make very poor decisions on the court."

jayhawkinATL 11 years, 9 months ago

True. But this is something a bunch of stairs in AFH and some major pine-riding time would likely solve.

GabrielMichael 11 years, 9 months ago

The Morris twins could learn a lesson from their younger understudy Thomas Robinson... talk about grace under pressure. Aside from the self control he has shown with off the court adversity the guy took an elbow to the face while fighting for the ball on the ground earlier this year and walked away without incident. The Morris twins need to become men if the Hawks hope to have any success in the tourney this year.

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Completely agree with the entire story except calling EJ out alone with such vigor, the twins should have been in that mix.

I can't believe Martin has any players left after watching him treat his players like he did last night. Although his coaching style was able to put together a win last night, I'd say his days are limited.

RockCaCO3 11 years, 9 months ago

Re: Martin, I agree. I felt bad for a couple of those kids when he was ripping into them. I dont think Bob Knight was that bad.

Michael Maris 11 years, 9 months ago

RE: Martin, I agree (as well). Considering that K-State has lost 3 players from their team (due to transferring out of the program) since their magical run into the Elite 8. That does NOT look promising for the future of Frank ''Evil Eye'' Martin and the Overpaid Assistant Delonte Hill.

How will Delonte Hill continue to bring in high caliber recruits (if Evil Eye'd Martin continues to yell at his players each and everytime they come off of the court). Perhaps, Self should implore a few of Martin Tactics to the Morris Twins (each time they get an Intentional Foul called against them for throwing Elbows, Sucker Punches, etc....).

This is NOT a National Championship Team. Is the talent there? Yes, but the discipline and attitudes are NOT.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 9 months ago

Ripping into them when they would make one minor mistake while playing the game of their lives.


One thing about Bob Knight though, as an announcer it is pretty unprofessional to address the referees during any game. He hasn't quite realized he is not part of the game now, only broadcasting it.

If he fixes that up I'll be fine.

Debbie Mangen 11 years, 9 months ago

YES! I've said that about Martin for years. Can you imagine having a recruit sitting there seeing that? My K-State friends say he's a wonderful, loving, caring man. Not seein' that so much.

The call on EJ last night wasn't surprising, seeing how the rest of the game was called. But in his defense, T-Rob does that at least once a game and doesn't get called for it.

I finally had to turn off the sound on TV and listen to it on the radio. Bobby Knight, although I like and respect the man, was really getting on my nerves. And I still haven't warmed to Brent Musberger who said KU couldn't keep up with Oklahoma and just couldn't run with them in the 1988 Championship Game. I know....... I need to let go.....

Craig Colgin 11 years, 9 months ago

Trob does not do what EJ did. HE gets intense yes, but he absolutely does NOT, do it in an opposing players face and make dumb smart mouth comments down 14.

texashawk10 11 years, 9 months ago

There are plenty of players that respond well to Frank Martin's coaching style. When a player makes a mistake and a coach yells at them, they take it as a personal challenge to go out and play better because they know they can. These players also have thick skin who realize that when the coach is yelling at them, it's not personal it's a way of motivating them.

I was this kind of player in high school, and had I been good enough to play college football, I would strongly consider a coach who used similar coaching methods to Frank Martin because that's what go the best performance out of me.

Not every kid is capable of handling a coach like Frank Martin and coaches like him and Bobby Knight are some of the most polarizing figures in sports, but if coaches like that can find the right players who can deal with the yelling and not take it personally those coaches can be very successful.

squawkhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Agree, Self needs to stop baby sitting premadonnas and coaching like Martin..with fire and passion.

Bob Forer 11 years, 9 months ago

Quote: "But maybe worse than all that was the attitude, not just by the twins, but by almost everyone except Reed. I don't remember the last time I saw a Jayhawk team sniping at one another like that. The Morris twins were yelling at the guards for making bad passes. The guards were yelling at the bigs for not hustling. The twins were back-talking the coach when he criticized them. Everyone was blaming someone else on the team for what was happening. It was very un-Kansas-like"

You're spot on. The "team" concept was cannibalized. Expected and tolerable for a New York Yankee. Unacceptable and intolerable for a Kansas Jayhawk.

Most of us accepted the loss to Texas. The team came together around TRob. FOE was more important than the win.

A month later and all I can say is WTF. Bickering like children on National TV

FOE? ....... yeah, right.

One very important point: while I'm not completely surprised with the "team" meltdown by individual players, I am shocked and gravely disappointed that HCBS, instead of nipping it the bud, allowed it to continue. The win had vaporized before halftime. Too bad Coach didn't do more to save the team.

Bob Forer 11 years, 9 months ago

Quote: "But maybe worse than all that was the attitude, not just by the twins, but by almost everyone except Reed. I don't remember the last time I saw a Jayhawk team sniping at one another like that. The Morris twins were yelling at the guards for making bad passes. The guards were yelling at the bigs for not hustling. The twins were back-talking the coach when he criticized them. Everyone was blaming someone else on the team for what was happening. It was very un-Kansas-like"

You're spot on. The "team" concept was cannibalized. Expected and tolerable for a New York Yankee. Unacceptable and intolerable for a Kansas Jayhawk.

Most of us accepted the loss to Texas. The team came together around TRob. FOE was more important than the win.

A month later and all I can say is WTF. Bickering like children on National TV

FOE? ....... yeah, right.

One very important point: while I'm not completely surprised with the "team" meltdown by individual players, I am shocked and gravely disappointed that HCBS, instead of nipping it the bud, allowed it to continue. The win had vaporized before halftime. Too bad Coach didn't do more to save the team.

JRandall 11 years, 9 months ago

You are completely on the right path. This groups of immature players do not realize or have not been made to realize what an honor it is to put the KU uniform on. They have a sense of entitlement and coach Self needs to re establish his presence as the leader of this team. The Morris twins acting as "Thugs" on the court, TT horrific play, bad judgement and head in the clouds, and Selby's attitude that he displayed, openly pouting during the game at his lack of play time.... give me a break. This is KU, not some AAU team. It should be that a player "earns his playing time".. Reed and Morningstar are the glue of this team, unfotunately it seems that they are ignored by the likes of the Morris twins, Taylor and now Selby and EJ. These 5 players are gifted but total head cases.

This problem was demonstrated last year when TT and the Morris twins were involved in a fight with the football team. This is just the type of kids they are. It shows more toughness on the court to restrain your physical retaliation and play to make the other team pay, as opposed to resort to cheap shots. These kids are street Thugs and that will be our downfall in the tourney.

Self needs to send a very clear message, this will not be tolerated. Sit the morris twins, TT and anyone else that is not willing to play team ball. On that note, Mario Little needs to sit. When did someone annoint him the number one scoring option.

Chuck Stones 11 years, 9 months ago

I agree - it looked like to me he was putting his forearm up into the chest of the player guarding him and Pullen ran right between them and into his arm. He wasn't looking AT Pullen and didn't swing his arm toward Pullen. But I didn't have the benefit of the slow mo replay that the refs watched. But I think it was the reputation.

Either way, I fear that no matter how good this team is or gets that the Morris boys will not be as "beloved" by the Jayhawk nation because of this behavior.

That's too bad!!

AirCapJay 11 years, 9 months ago

I agree with you kbacs. To me it looks like Pullen ran into his elbow. All night, Pullen was trying to draw fouls. One in particular was when he faked a 3 point shot, got TT in the air and then moved under him when he was coming down. In my opinion, intensionally drawing a foul that way should not be allowed. If I player goes airborne, he should have the right to come back down and if the player with the ball intensionally moves under him should be an offensive foul.

homechanger 11 years, 9 months ago

try rewatching it. my dvr shows it was intentional. He has done it before and been called. it was thug.

combes50 11 years, 9 months ago

Your DVR shows that? My DVR begs to differ. I rewatched it 3 times, it actually looked to me like Pullen ran into his own man before he hit Markieff. So thug...

RockCaCO3 11 years, 9 months ago

I agree, Pullen ran (or tried to) in between the two. I think Keif got the call because of the high elbow.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 9 months ago

I think Keif got the call because his reputation is in the heads of every officiating crew we get.

I'm pretty sure he's earned his reputation. Is it just me or does this KU team talk more trash on the court than any I can remember?

akl6593 11 years, 9 months ago

That is what I saw, I was shocked they at the call. However, I think it did have an impact on the players... "between the ears" ...anyway something was off last night but I think it is a shame the way the fans are attacking the Twins...I hope the team can regroup! I also think TRob was really needed last night.

ancient_hawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Obvious you haven't played the game.

Kieff just compensated for "closing the gate" late by putting his forearm out against Kelly's chest. Pullen tried to run through the gap, and either bad luck or good acting did the rest.

ancient_hawk 11 years, 9 months ago

It was also more of a clothesline than an elbow, anyway. Disclaimer: that in no way lets anyone off the hook for their petulance and poor play.

Adam Evans 11 years, 9 months ago

No way it was intentional. It was a foul for sure, but not fouling of Pullen. He should have been called for a moving screen since the offensive player cannot initiate the contact, and he did. Pullen just decided that he would introduce his face to Kieffs elbow and got a crappy call. It does not excuse the thuggish attitude by him, his twin, or TT. None of the three even seemed to care about the team losing. They were mad that they (individually) were made to look bad.

squawkhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

This is what happens when you don't play anyone all season long. This team is not prepared to play well in the NCAA tourney becuause they are too soft.

John Brown 11 years, 9 months ago

What is scary is that other (lesser) teams have come back from deficits against us but when we were down, we lost our composure.

SDSurferFan 11 years, 9 months ago

'Pullen Not Pressed by KU: Wonders if KU is NIT Bound' by Matt Tait

-can we trade Selby/Taylor for Pullen? -Little tried to score 5pt baskets every time he touched it. -Reed is our best penetrator= sweet16 exit. -Ej...F the refs, let it go on sometimes ..sometimes it is okay not to blow the whistle. -Kst is penciled into my sweet 16...will do some damage. -Self- I thought he was going to sub in the team manager...comedy w/the subn'. -it's okay to only have 2 losses by midFeb -as Knight said, KU will be better from this. I hope.

AirCapJay 11 years, 9 months ago

I really don't think KSU will make the NCAA. They will lose more conference games and have a below 500 conference record.

REHawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Tough position for a new athletic director to face. Jayhawk tradition too pristine for such an ugly display in front of a national audience. After this debacle, Coach Self and staff really must gain control.

Todd Simpson 11 years, 9 months ago

ok I normally keep quiet about refs since its not them comiting the fouls they just call them. Which brings me to my point of EJ's Ally oop. I imeadiately got up and started dropping F bombs towards the ref that called that. EJ showed a tremendous amount of passion and the ref was actually staring him down.....What was said by EJ??? LET'S GO NOW is what his lips read. Where on earth do you get a T from that. I've seen Thomas Robinson do that and get his team fired up. Now obviously Kansas lost and personally they should have lost. If any Kansas Fan should be upset at a player it would be Taylor. Taylor played like he didn't want to be out there as he was commiting turnover after turnover and what caught my eye was that after everyone of his turnovers in the 2nd half he literally stood there for 3-4 secs after he would push so hard then not handle the ball. Selby looked as if he was lost. I would also like agree that the Twins both need to just shut their mouths and play ball.

texashawk10 11 years, 9 months ago

The reason EJ got called for that technical was not because of what he said, but what he was doing when he said it. After the dunk, he was staring down the guy he just dunked on and yelled something at that player. That's something that should be called a technical every time. If "let's go now" is what EJ said and he yelled it out while running up the court after the dunk, then it wouldn't have been called, but he yelled it while staring down an opposing player.

Fans should be mad at all of the players because nobody stepped up and demonstrated any leadership last night. Reed and Morningstar didn't step up early on and get this team under control and it just spiraled out of control last night.

texasdochawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Taylor played so poorly it appeared as though he was trying to throw the game!

Isn't it time to play someone else? In Self's eye there may not be anyone better, but TT has had his chance and it's now past due that someone else should get an opportunity.

It's time to let Josh be Josh at Point Guard. Let him do what he does best! We need a point guard who can take over a game, the way Sherron did early in his career.

I'm pullin for ya Josh!!

RustyTee 11 years, 9 months ago

With the elbow controversy (real or perceived), following the Twins every place they go, does anybody think they will stay after this year? Don't think so and Selby will be bye bye too.

slowplay 11 years, 9 months ago

And where is Selby going to go? He's dropping like a rock on the draft boards. Europe may be a possiblity.

Chuck Stones 11 years, 9 months ago

Anybody think the "elbow controversary" will hurt them in the draft????

Ron Franklin 11 years, 9 months ago

At least we can set our expectations now.

NO WAY will this team make it to the elite 8.

The Twins & TT are the only obstacles for this team.....and they've proven they cannot keep it together for 6 games. TT really outdid himself last night. I agree with Yates, there is something wrong with this team (on the inside)

Disgusting. I'm a KSU/KU grad and it's this time of the year that reminds/forces me sometimes to recognize where my heart strings really are tied. I'm just glad I ended up watching the game alone & not with fellow KSU grads.

Congrats to KSU, Pullen, & Martin, I guess. They really needed this one.

If you ask me, I think the Twins are seeing $$ signs already.....

The answer to this question escapes me, and did against UNI also....why couldn't Self get this guys together & rallied? Was he outcoached? Did he callup Frank and give him his entire game plan? KU has KSU outmanned athletically/talent wise at every position except reason they couldn't turn it around. How in the hell do you beat somebody by 20 one week and lose by 20 the next. Those back door cuts were open all night.

Embarrassing display for the entire program.

jaymar74 11 years, 9 months ago

Self is losing almost 18% of his games. Lets can his as*

Joe Joseph 11 years, 9 months ago

On an average night, KU beats even an above average KSU team. It just so happens that KU had a far below average night and KSU had a far above average night.

2 +2 = 4

AirCapJay 11 years, 9 months ago

Agree. Teams that beat KU have exceptional play from 1 and above average play from several players. Look at the UNI game last year. They were dropping 3's like no bodies business. Even their center dropped a couple 3's that were only his 3rd or 4th of the year. Pullen was a robot last night. Everything he put up went in. When someone can do that, it is hard to win.

KU had a real bad night. It was embarrassing but I think they will correct and move on and be a better team.

Chad Sandwell 11 years, 9 months ago

I got to admit, this morning I am embarrassed to be a Jayhawk fan. But not for the reason so many others have mentioned, but by the way you, the posters, have reacted to the results of this game. Hey, I am just as upset as the rest of you that we got run out of Mahatten, but for better or worse, this is our team, and for all it's faults is a pretty good one. Here are some objective observations: 1. Morris Twins have to play bigger and under control mentally 2. That being said, the refs were terrible last night. (not a flagrant on Kieff and so many touch fouls called against us.)-but not the reason we lost but certainly affected game flow. 3. Guard play from ALL guards has to be better. 4. For those bagging on Coach Self, some nights all the coaching in the world won't help, last night was one of those nights when the message wasn't getting through. In the grand scheme of things, this is 1 loss, and in all my years as a Jayhawk fan, one thing I have never done is call my team bad or terrible or whatever derogatory adjectives people have thrown about. This type of game screams "players only meeting" on our day off, just like in 2008. We can all only hope the results are the same. But for all of you bagging on this team right now.......LIGHTEN UP.

leonard 11 years, 9 months ago

Sweet fancy moses...enough with the self-righteous, Jimmy Swaggart lecture.

I've been a Jayhawk fan since the days of Riney Lochmann and Delvy Lewis hustled their tails off for KU...and I'll criticize my Jayhawks whenever I feel it's warranted...and their performance last night deserves a scalding.

On most nights Taylor can't guard a cheerleader and last night was as bad as it gets. He's lazy or stupid or a combination of both...but any either case he crippled us last night. Pullen punked him.

Most nights we can overcome his inconsistent leadership from the point guard position on the offensive side of the ball...but I'm fed up with his BS defense. When his man doesn't have the ball he spends his time wandering around looking lost...when he has to attempt on-ball defense it's even worse.

His Blue Bayou defense causes the entire defensive scheme to break down...causing all of his teammates to be in foul jeopardy trying to cover his butt. And it looks like EJ and Selby are following his lead.

Critical of the Jayhawks performance last night? Damn skippy. It wasn't a lack of talent last was a lack of hustle and a lot of stupidity.

rwhawk 11 years, 9 months ago


Nice, way to stay young, bro!

"Lochmann...Lewis" and "Damn skippy" sort of aged you, though.

Trent Smith 11 years, 9 months ago

I totaly agree man. Losing one game doesn't sway how I feel about my team or its players. This article bags on the Morris twins based on one of the worst calls of the game. That was just your basic moving screen. I've never seen one of those called as an "intentional" foul. Tyrel got clothes-lined pretty good once too, but nobody is bagging on whoever that kid was calling him a thug! And they shouldn't. Hard fouls happen. It is embarassing seeing some of the posts on here. One game! Come on people. If you play against a team that makes all it's shots, you have a pretty good chance of losing. I say Great Game Pullen. I think he was making one of those youtube videos of impossible basketball shots.

Adam Evans 11 years, 9 months ago

disagree. We James Naismith created this game, he had in mind a fun, energetic, GAME in mind. He brought this game to the University of Kansas first and foremost. Play like last night, and repeatedly all season by the twins, is not only a disgrace to KU, but to the game as well. Unfortunately, and this is the reason I don't watch the NBA, the NBA is all about what the game should not be. I say let the twins go, sit TT, and pray Selby comes back another year. The first 3 are not men with the Jayhawk attitude. It shows since they came on campus with BB Guns fired from windows, fights with the football team, twitter rants, technicals's pathetic.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

How fast all of you including the writer pannick and jump off of the bandwagon! Folks we have not become a team on the bubble! I personally do not think that Kief's foul was flagrant! It was just a hard foul. He was only fending off the defender such that he could move for a lob pass for an inside shot. Because the Morris' have made themselves targets of the refs, Kief istead gets a flagrant foul and that is unfortunate. Finally, TT, the Morris' et al, have to check their friggin EGOS! Their heads were so big this weekend and Monday, that I could feel their swell heads here back east! This is what really caused the lost as their EGOS led to no focus which led to errant passes, shots that were put up only for the the cause to put one up, and pseudo defense. Check your EGOS and get back to being the exceptional team that you have been for the most part this year!

Ron Franklin 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm not jumping off of a bandwagon, but when your best players average a T or Intentional a game, and your best PG has 6 unforced turnovers....there is no way we can expect this group to beat 6 hungry teams in March.

Theutus 11 years, 9 months ago

7 Turnovers..... 7.

I'm sick of seeing TT get away with freebies because whoever does the official stat line is a moron.

TT drove the ball right into Reed, then threw the ball off Reeds foot without even remotely giving Reed an opportunity to take it, and Reed got the TO.

That's TT's turnover, cut and clear. 7 Turnovers.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

That is just one game! Duke had its come uppance against St John's and has put it back together. The Lakers lost to the Bobcats last night, but they will bounce back.This KU team will bounce back also! Stay on the Wagon!

JRandall 11 years, 9 months ago

TT at point guard for this team = early exit from the dance, plane and simple. I love the hawks but he is the worst pt guard KU has had running the ship. The problem is Self has lost his balls somewhere Bench TT and the Morris Twins until they earn their playing time. Who cares if we lose a game or 2, get the message to sink in to these thick skulled Thugs.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 9 months ago

It is funny you say this. Earlier today at work I was discussing exactly this, and posed the question, "Is he the worst point guard Bill Self has had as a season starter since he was at Oral Roberts?"

We went back to Williams at Illinois, and look at this list:

Taylor > Collins > Chalmers > Miles > Williams

Am I missing anybody, and can anybody remember who was before that? He had good guards at Tulsa, so not sure Taylor isn't behind them too, lol.

Ron Franklin 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm not jumping off of a bandwagon, but when your best players average a T or Intentional a game, and your best PG has 6 unforced turnovers....there is no way we can expect this group to beat 6 hungry teams in March.

Ron Franklin 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm not jumping off of a bandwagon, but when your best players average a T or Intentional a game, and your best PG has 6 unforced turnovers....there is no way we can expect this group to beat 6 hungry teams in March.

REHawk 11 years, 9 months ago

After the opening three minutes of the first half, I thought to myself, TT is absolutely smothering any opportunities for the Jayawks to develop a rhythm and team flow. If he could just bring the ball upcourt, pass to Tyrel or Brady, then step back over the centercourt line to allow teammates to play 4 on 5, we might get something going.

Steve Brown 11 years, 9 months ago

It wasn't at all clear to me that Markieff intentionally elbowed Pullen in the face. I think Markieff's reputation caught up with him with that call" Atlanta Jay. I think you are correct, I watched the tape repeatedly, not sure MMorris was arming Pullen more of a london bridge on their big and pullen ran under the drawbridge. Like HCBS says, our bigs are marked men, they brought on themselves. Coach asked the ref when he told him about the call " are you sure?" then coach nodded, as in okay. I seriously don't think this strong arm was similar to the last two infamous ones. not that it matters, unless one Twin gets tossed in the big dance. Hats off the State and Pullen, no more NIT talk now...

fansincewilt 11 years, 9 months ago

I agree here. This foul did not deserve the technical. The ref jumped the gun based on reputation rather than on reality. However, it obviously got to MK. He has got to be able to rise above those kinds of things. He was out of it the rest of the game. I have to agree on TT. I think the first trouble we get into in the big dance, he will collapse. I think he would be great off of the bench. I think the pressure gets to him. As a backup there would not be all that pressure. However, we need him on defense. I guess I just need to shutup and let coach run this team. I am convinced he is doing the very best job that can be done with our team. We have seen some real weaknesses exposed. He will know what to do.

Steve Brown 11 years, 9 months ago

Selby comes back, TRob is out and we get smashed, just sayin'

Maybe Josh on the health bench in some odd way helped TTaylor play free and easy and not so head is for better minds than mine to sort out the dynamic.

Robert Brock 11 years, 9 months ago

I don't condone the Morris twins' foul plays and reckless attitude this season. Though it may or may not have been provoked, what took place at Cal was disgusting and shameful and as an alum, I was thoroughly embarrassed. However, if you watch the replay of the intentional foul called on Markeiff last night, it was bad timing and what may have been a bad call.

Keiff's man came over to set a pick, Keiff put up an arm bar to body up, and for whatever reason, Pullen decided to barrel through the middle of two giant bodies instead of around them and his face connected with Keiff's elbow and the chest of the K-State player it was moving into. It happened in the split of a second and with the Morris reputation, it was an easy call apparently. The Morris twins have to know better and not to put themselves in a situation like that. It looked dirty the first time I saw it, but when I watch the replay, I see what appears to be an unfortunate physical play.

This season hinges on things more complex than the occasional lack of poise by the Morris twins. This is a good team, but it has weaknesses all over the roster and the same question marks that we had going into the season. Is there anyone on the perimeter that can consistently create their own shot? (Selby seemed to be the answer, but he has not been able to build the chemistry yet.) Can the perimeter players defend slashers and limit open outside looks? With the absense of Cole, can the Morris twins and Robinson stop big, athletic, physical players in the post? Etc., etc., etc.

We scrutinize this team after a loss, and rightfully so. It's good for KU to be challenged, but it's heartbreaking when the result is like what we witnessed last night. There is something to be gained from a loss like that, and hopefully this is a wake-up call.

AirCapJay 11 years, 9 months ago

Exactly how I saw it. The twins are being watched by refs for anything. I felt the refs over officiated last night calling every ticky tac foul that did influence the flow of the game. When you have 10 players all running around the floor, body contact will take place. Pullen was trying to draw fouls and he did a good job of it. It's almost like Frank told the refs before the game that Pullen was going to draw fouls so be sure to look for it.

Julie Craig 11 years, 9 months ago

It's called a "road game." Make an adjustment.

yates33333 11 years, 9 months ago

BrockIII's comment is intelligent and right to the point, unfortunately.

SDSurferFan 11 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, ridiculous these kids showed emotion and some immaturity while getting blown out by a team they smashed earlier. I laugh how KU posters/fans have an entitled attitude.

There would be a lot more heat on them if they accepted defeat with a ho-hum attitude.

rwhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

I don't think the opposite of emotion and immaturity people are looking for is "ho-hum," so much as respect and self-control. Want an example? Thomas Robinson. He carries himself so well, even when things get heated. I think that is a fair expectation for these "kids." And why does everyone insist on referring to these guys as "kids"? I get it that they're brains won't be fully developed until they're 26, but come on, 20 years old is past "kid."

SDSurferFan 11 years, 9 months ago

I didn't see the embarrassment display by the hawks that everyone is crying about. I think this site and the emotion the posters are showing is embarrassing. There is more pouting and immaturity going on through these posts then what these KIDS did in a very emotional game.

This is what Carolina fans act like.

KU is only 24-2 and not leading the world....booohoooo!!!

rwhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

I agree with you...I'm just sayin' that some people aren't being emotional and haven't been necessarily falling head over heals about this team. In many ways, their basketball talent hides some flaws that could be their thorn in March. That's all I'm sayin'.

Aligned 11 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, we played bad. But I’m not sure that any team in the country could’ve come out of Manhattan with a win last night. KSU was just too good. On any given night in conference play there are upsets; it happens every year. But what is just as predictable are the know-nothing fans and writers who pile on and are critical of everything in the program. Trust me, KU will be fine.

lincase 11 years, 9 months ago

Wasn't it last year that Texas was briefly ranked number 1, played K-Sate shortly thereafter, lost, and then fell apart for the rest of the season? Correct me if I am wrong, but (like the twins) I can't be expected to bring my A game every time, and I won't take the trouble to look it up. Watching the debacle last night made me draw some parallels that I found disquieting.

86finalfour 11 years, 9 months ago

and like that texas team last year, this KU team is struggling at the guard position. In college, you need a player who get the ball up the court without turning it over and distribute the ball to the post. Bill's been saying this for months now about this team.

kuproud96 11 years, 9 months ago

Maybe the twins will finally stop running their mouths and jacking up threes when they can't make a free throw. Maybe coach will finally take control and address these glaring problems like a head coach should.

shinguard 11 years, 9 months ago

What really concerns me about the twin's attitude is, if left unchecked/uncontrolled, will only escalate. I really hope we do win the NC. But, the laws of probability state that we have a better chance of loosing at some point in the tournament (like all other teams). All teams have their fair share of adversity during their tournament run which they must overcome. They don't overcome it by complaining to the refs, yelling at teammates and throwing elbows. Right now, I can see that if we get beat in the NCAAs it will be in the flurry of technicals, elbows, trash-talking and general behavior that is embarrassing to KU.... and that, Marcus/Markief, will be your legacy at KU.

Get your act together guys. We need you.

Ben Simonett 11 years, 9 months ago

I think its time we all brace ourselves for another early round exit in the tourney. We're halfway through february, this is the time of year when you know what teams are made of. what do we know about this team:

Josh Selby was vastly overrated, should not have even been in the conversation for #1 recruit.

The morris twins are still the same thugs from philly that thought it was a good idea to shoot a bebe gun out the window of jayhawker towers. sure there jump shooting has improved over the last 3 years, there attitudes haven't.

tyshawn taylor does not have the intellectual capacity to ever be a competant point guard. hes a great athlete, but dumb as a rock.

Brady and Tyrel play harder then anyone else on the court, but intensity can only make up for lack of athleticism so much.

these traits are not the traits of a national champion. i lol'd every time iheard people compare this team to '08.

Robinson > Taylor Chalmers > Selby Rush > Reed Arthur = Marcus Darnell > Markieff

Sasha = Trob Collins > Morningstar

'08 squad would blow this years team out by 15+

DocBean 11 years, 9 months ago

Am I the only one that thinks Markieff is to blame and not Marcus for the intentional foul? Why is Marcus taking the blame?

No_phog 11 years, 9 months ago

it's a pity how these so-called fans are attacking these fine student atheletes.

Must be Tea Party patriots.

combes50 11 years, 9 months ago

Agreed. End of the world talks when we lose a game.

In the end this game will matter none, just like when we lost to Beasley in Manhattan during the 2008 Season.

Chris Shaw 11 years, 9 months ago

Everyone okay? Everyone with me? Take one second and take a deep breathe............breathe exhale.

Wow! I can barely get on this site this morning with so much traffic. The site seems like it's trying to crash because it takes so long to load. What a performance last night, huh?

Here are some minor observations:

1) I know there are people out there that won't believe me, but I definitely think you can learn a lot from a loss. I know for a fact Doug Gottlieb disagrees with me, but then again I also know his Okie State squad that lost to KU back in the day also got better when they did lose to KU.

Thesychophant poster above brings up a good point and shows a great quote. I was going to comment on this because I think this was the biggest obstacle last night. It was obvious that a lot of players on KU last night were barking at one another. I don't condone it and irritates the living dickens out of me, but every good team goes through it.

Becoming a "Championship" team comes in cycles and for this 2010-2011 team we are seeing it first hand more so than other teams in the past. Teams do crazy things when faced with adversity. I mean, look at the first adversity with T-Rob and after the Texas loss. Team responded very well. Look what has happened in the second adversity since T-Rob when out with his knee injury?

I will say this about sychophant's quote and the observations with players griping at each other............T-Rob is the heart and soul of this team and the sooner he gets back on the court the better this team will perform.

Finally, at least in regards to this topic, losing creates a change in behavior whether it's good or bad, but I can't help but think with the adversity and as much time as this team has spent with one another good and bad that they definitely learned something for the better and will learn a lot more when they watch the film today. Self will address it. Folks, this is the beauty of the college game with college kids. This is where the psychology of the game kicks into 5th gear.

Selbyville 11 years, 9 months ago

Yea I could tell this was going to be a loss with about 13 minutes left. What's that thing Self always says about the 30 game regular season? 5 good, 5 bad and 20 ordinary. This was just a bad game. The dominance we have at K St is something that doesn't go unnoticed, and they came out and played a lot harder than us. Factor that in with the fact that we laid an egg on both sides of the floor, got in foul trouble early and are missing Selby (who isn't there yet) and TRob, and guys, that's a game we're gonna lose.

Come together and learn how to evolve from this. Fortunately we can fall back a bit in the rankings and out of the public eye, which is the best spot for us.

Carolyn Hunzicker 11 years, 9 months ago

Mrs. Morris....It's time you teach your children just how to act....If this continues, you failed..That's it ! The boys are good and big, that's all..Do not play team basketball, Cannot guard players shorter than they are, don't hussel, Have no ideal, how to make adjustments, espically when it comes to free-throws, imature ..JUST NEED TO GROW UP THERE WAY TO FULL OF THEMSELVES...

No_phog 11 years, 9 months ago

With fan attitude like this, the twins should just say adios a head for the NBA (or WWF) now.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

Yep and they will be the fickled ones next year saying we miss the twins!

JRandall 11 years, 9 months ago

Screw the twins... let em and Selby go be stars in some south american league. Mental toughness is more important in the big leagues.. they don't have it.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

If you are referrring to Kiefs technical, that was not a flagrant foul!

Steve Ashley 11 years, 9 months ago

Yes it was. You set a pick with your arms in front of you, not with your left forearm out at head hight. It was an attempt at a cheap shot and he got caught.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

It was not a pick! It was what Mangino called a swim move in which you hold off the defender and then make a move to the basket in this case looking for a hi lo lob. Not executed well and thus a foul, but not a flagrant foul.

combes50 11 years, 9 months ago

Glad you signed up for an account to post this nonsense.

Chris Shaw 11 years, 9 months ago

2) If you take away all the bickering, attitude, and feeling sorry for you type of mentality from last night's game, Self has a major issue he has to deal with. K-State displayed last night how you beat KU. It's been done before so many times by mid-majors, but K-State showed how you beat KU with athletes and they did it to perfection last night.

Did anybody notice when KU got within 5 that Martin called a timeout early in the second half? After that timeout, how many times did K-State go below 8 seconds on the shot-clock? A LOT! KU's defense was not doing anything to harass Pullen or K-State's guards and K-State ran their offense and didn't settle for their shots. They consistently ran down the shot clock, controlled tempo, and dictated the entire second half. That's what Mid-Majors have done in the past and that is exactly what K-State did last night.

I know it's easier said then done and I also know Self was trying to send some messages last night to certain players, but I am curious how KU is going to handle this crutch that seems to happen at least one game every NCAA tournament. It's definitely a concern.

3) I think a lot of this game had to do with passion and heart and there just wasn't much of it last night from most of the team. The Twins baffle me at times and I'm glad Self sat Kieff down after that 3 point attempt. That was just a terrible shot by Kieff. I hate that shot and unfortunately he's being do it all year when KU has had leads. EJ's dunk was nice, but it was totally negated for the lack of mental focus afterwards.

Conclusion: Like I said, just some minor observations because in the end this game was more about than what was displayed on the court last night. The team is definitely fighting through some adversity at the moment within one another, and Self has a teeter totter affect he has to carefully maintain going forward. It will be interesting to see what happens.

RockChalk26 11 years, 9 months ago

Point #2 is dead on. I couldn't agree more :)

Chris Shaw 11 years, 9 months ago

Thanks Rockchalk! It is an area of concern and it comes with "W's" and "L's". I mean, we can bring up Bucknell, Bradley, and UNI, but with that we can also bring up Southern Illinois and Davidson that also gave KU fits in KU's NCAA victories as well.

combes50 11 years, 9 months ago

Thanks for the level headed analysis kushaw. Couldn't agree more.

Robert Brock 11 years, 9 months ago

College basketball is about skill; that is what Tyshawn Taylor lacks (as well as the element of leadership which is an absolute in the job discription of "point guard").

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 9 months ago

TT has lots of skill, but what he has in skill and athleticism seems to be made up for in a lack of focus.

Eric Schneider 11 years, 9 months ago

I agree with BrockIII. 'Kieff's foul was based on reputation. Not what was done. He put his forearm into the big's chest just as Pullen tried to come through. The timing made it look worse than it really was. I didn't see EJ's technical as I had turned the game off in disgust. So I can't comment on it. It was one game. We have been playing great since the Texas game. So I'm not too concerned. If you remember K-State handled us pretty easily in 2008. The game wasn't as close as the score was. That year ended pretty good. Not that I'm saying this is that team. It clearly isn't. But give me a break. This is one of the reasons that I hate call-in radio shows. All these "experts" that some fans seem to think they are, over-reacting to one game. Both good and bad. We are 24-2. We will still be in the top 5 most likely.

And for all you expert statisticians who keep claiming the Morris twins constantly "jack up threes." When do 1.6 and 2.1 attempts per game constitute jacking up threes all the time. Especially when their averages (40% and 34%) are on par with most 2 guards.

My biggest question mark with this team is Selby. I'm starting to wonder if he might not be more concerned with his NBA prospects instead of the team.

Chris Shaw 11 years, 9 months ago

You're right about the Twins seemingly "Jacking up 3's" based on their attempts per game, but more importantly I think it's the ill-advised timing of when those attempts occur. I mean, it's almost always precision clock-work how early in the shot clock their attempts come from the top of key, especially Kieff's.

Yes, they are making a high percentage, but they are getting bailed out by taking bad shots and then making them. On the flip side, all you have to do is revert back to the USC, UCLA, Zona, Texas, and Michigan games for evidence of how you blow big leads and let opponents back in the game with ill-advised 3 point attempts.

kuproud96 11 years, 9 months ago

I agree the 3's early in the shot clock with no ball movement are the one's that are the most frustrating because the explicit goal of coach self's offense is to get the highest percentage shot.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

My biggest question mark with this team is Selby. I'm starting to wonder if he might not be more concerned with his NBA prospects instead of the team.

How do you conclude that?

Chris Shaw 11 years, 9 months ago

I agree with you! I'm not sure how you can make a comment like that about a kid who's missed the last 3 games because of an injury to his foot.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

Exactly. The young man probably reads this blog and to read whimsical stuff like that bothers me. Selby is a player who will help us down the stretch!

AirCapJay 11 years, 9 months ago

+1. Most of these posts are ridiculous. I especially hate the ones that say TT is stupid. TT is smart and articulate. Listen to his interviews. He tries hard... like the rest of the players. Last nights game was a fluke. KSU was jacked, the fans were jacked, Pullin and the team were jacked. I bet they prepared for this game like no other. KU has a big target on their back and KSU hit bullseye last night.

JRandall 11 years, 9 months ago

I think you make a great point. Selby seems like a likeable kid, very talented but his play and what seemed to be a little bit of pouting by him is making me scratch my head. Is he more concerned about getting his NBA stock up in his limited appearances this year or is he more concerned about this team winning. Only he knows the answer

gagibor 11 years, 9 months ago

I agree that the hawks struggled last night and they do have a lot to learn!! However, noone is complaining when the twins are carrying this team on their back most nights.. This is probably the best thing that could happen in the big picture as long as they can learn from the loss.... How about getting on Mario Little for playing selfish basketball.. Incredibly selfish player!!!! This team is for real and like all teams has to continue to grow and learn... As perfect as you all are, I am pretty sure most of you have had a bad day on the job.... Have a little faith in the Jayhawks!!!

Julie Craig 11 years, 9 months ago

Kudos to the KU tutoring program for keeping these guys academically elegible. . . Just sayin....


Ben Simonett 11 years, 9 months ago

LOL +1

how they keep tyshawn passing classes is beyond me.

listening to that kid talk makes me wonder how he graduated high school. poor grammar, slurred speech. Don't give me that "its how they talk on the streets" crap. he's in college, you should be able to speak proper English as a college student.

But then, what do you expect from a guy that quotes lil wayne on his facebook page and can't even get that diarrhea of a dialect right. "point plankin" anyone?

AirCapJay 11 years, 9 months ago

Your English language skills need a little more polish as well.

AirCapJay 11 years, 9 months ago

Where did you learn to spell? You could use a tutor yourself.

Ben Simonett 11 years, 9 months ago

i had a 3.77 in electrical engineering

you know, a degree that actually gets you a job.

but please point out what i misspelled in a post i wrote in 8 seconds and equate that to tyshawn taylors laughable presentation at every interview he's ever done.

Julie Craig 11 years, 9 months ago

benny - I think he's complaining that I misspelled "eligible." Get a reservation for bitter, party of one.

gchawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Congrats on the victory. Too bad you don't know the first thing about being a winner. Even though my daughter graduated from your institution it's people like you that make me detest KSU. You and bennybob (inbred no doubt) are examples that you just can't buy class.

cobweb 11 years, 9 months ago

Oh, chill everybody on the twins. They are model players 95% of the time. They're kids, for God's sake. It's not like they have some weird personality disorder - LIKE BOBBY KNIGHT!

RockChalk26 11 years, 9 months ago

We got our butts kicked last night. Yes, the twins didn't make the trip to Manhattan. Yes, our defense was not intense. Yes, we did not crash the glass. But my bright spot of the game was one of the low points for most of you other posters.

EJ was ready to go off last night and we benched him for one bad pass and for showing too much emotion after a dunk. I understand why Self benched EJ after the technical for the dunk, but I don't understand why he didn't go back into the game. Last night the team lacked emotion and EJ was the only one who should some. We needed a player like that on the court last night.

One thing about EJ's play is when he is hot, he is hot. When he is knocking down threes and ripping down dunks he is at his best. So what, he had one bad turn over, TT had six bad turnovers. Keep EJ in the game, the guy can flat out ball if given the chance.


Chris Shaw 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm also wondering why people compare this team to 08? It's unfair and it's unrealistic. This team has their own identity and they are trying to find that one common bond that makes them truly a "Team". At the moment, they are about as far away from that 08 team and that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

This 2010-2011 team has had so many lineup changes because of injuries, deaths, suspensions, etc etc, it's hard to find that "Flow" with so many changes. I think the KU team has shown it in the 6 games after the Texas loss, but they are going to have to find another gear after this K-State loss. They are going to have to get back to work, roll up their sleaves, and get dirty.

That 08 team lost 2 of 3 games between Feb. 11th and Feb 23rd. With that said, the 08 team also had a constant lineup from Feb. on into March. This team isn't anywhere near having that stability in their lineup as of now. If anything, this 2010-2011 team is trying to prove that they belong with the elite of college basketball and that is exactly what they were trying to do in the 07 season when they lost to UCLA in the Elite 8.

Robert Brock 11 years, 9 months ago

The biggest difference between the current team and the 08 team is DEFENSE. That team could defend (especially on the perimeter and forcing turnovers) at a level that this team can only dream of. At times, I think this team looks like one of the better offensive teams Self has coached, but defensively there is some work to be done.

Ty Mar 11 years, 9 months ago

The twins don't play defense is problem. Last year we had defense through Cole but not the offense of the twins...

Why the twins don't seem motivated on the defensive end is beyond me. T-Rob is a machine on can see the effort he puts in trying to swat the ball away.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 9 months ago

"I'm also wondering why people compare this team to 08? It's unfair and it's unrealistic."

Here... "I'm also wondering why people compare this team to 08? It's insane and it's ridiculous."


No_phog 11 years, 9 months ago

what a difference a few days make....

“What fits me are personalities,” Self said. “I don’t like coaching duds, I’ll be the first to tell you. Give me a guy you can joke with and have some fun with. That’s one reason I love coaching the twins. They’re really funny. They’ll say things during games that crack me up. I like guys with personality and (who) are a little rough around the edges.”

Sometimes, the Morris twins and Tyshawn Taylor, the liveliest personalities on a colorful team, even say funny things during postgame news conferences. Saturday, after a ho-hum, 89-66 obliteration of Iowa State, was one such day.

They’re never dull, which usually, not always, but usually, is a good thing that adds to their appeal.

Robert Brock 11 years, 9 months ago

I would like to see Taylor and Johnson ride the pine with Reed and Morningstar sharing the point duties. They may not be as quick, but they value the ball and don't tend to make bone-headed mistakes like TT and EJ.

RyanKCMO 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm with kushaw...there are real concerns, but we can't overreact every time we lose a game, however ugly it was. We do need Selby and TRob 100% healthy and we need better out of TT who had been playing pretty well lately but laid a big egg last night, more out of Brady and better D out of everyone. But we can't throw our team under the bus for for a terrible one after they just rattled off the best 3 week stretch of the season. I do agree with some other posters though-EJ and Releford need more mins in games like that. And I've thought for a long time there are harmful/nonsensical double standards on when some guys are yanked for mistakes or how many mistakes they can make vs. others. But whadda I know?

The Twins are marked men, ala Jeff Graves. Yeah they've done a few things to bring it on themselves, but some of the times they were defending themselves or teammates and that one last night was bs. Pullen and his stupid Amish beard was allowed to initiate any contact he wanted, including that play and the one where he dipped to the left to run into Taylor. I guess they're letting him get his NBA fantasy out now by playing with NBA rules for him only, since he won't get an actual chance to play in the NBA next year.

On a related note, Big 12 coaches need to band together and get John Higgins and a couple other refs ran out of the league. The best refs are the ones you don't know and he's one of these guys that thinks everyone's paying to see him make an @ss out o himself.

Cora Smith 11 years, 9 months ago

We have never protected a number one ranking well. We do not have a true point guard who looks to assist first and shoot second. We will not go far in the NCAA with that kind of deficit. One time TT was just dribbling up court by himself and lost the ball.

The Morris twins are giving the refs exactly what they want when they try to get in some little retaliation or extra attempt to intimidate.

Major upset in the second round. Well within the realm of possibility.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 9 months ago

I would have to disagree .. TT is not an assist first, shoot second guy. There just isn't any getting around that. Just because one has assists, does not mean he is a true point guard, or an assist first guy. And playing every game from the time you are a freshman, at the guard spot, on KU, will put you in that category. Watch TT drive to the basket vs. MU and ISU ... did you see one hint that he was looking to pass? It pretty easy to see if you're looking for it. Where are the lobs for dunks? Where are the penetrations and creating?

TT has 347 total assists in nearly 3 seasons of starting basically every game. Chalmers in 3 years totalled 420, and Robinson in 3 years totalled 475 (I left off RR's freshman year of 25 assists as he rarely played). Collins, in 3 years totalled 440. How many assists were there to go around? This isn't even a comparison.

But it really isn't a comparison if one just watches him play, vs. any of those 3.

If coach Self wants him to drive more and shoot more in the paint, I would add to make "more" while we're at it. But to actually look to pass when you drive.

RockChalk360 11 years, 9 months ago

If you guys want to win you have to want it. Last year Marcus, you made an excuse for losing to Northern Iowa. You said that if you played them 100 more times, you would win all 100. Well you know what?! YOU LOST!You play each team once in the tournament. You're a Junior now, and were a Sophomore when you made the comment, I think you should understand that. This year, you lost to Texas at Allen Fieldhouse... and you said you didn't sleep because you stayed up with T-Rob all night. I understand that you were with him, but you have to play hard. Look for reasons to play hard instead of making excuses. Play for T'Rob's mom. Play every game for her. Losing to K-State in unacceptable. You just don't let it happen. So don't even think about making an excuse this time. Take each game like it's your last and win the rest with some momentum going into the tournament. Let's step it up!Rock Chalk!

Chris Shaw 11 years, 9 months ago

I wouldn't say losing to K-State is unacceptable? They were fighting for their season last night. I mean, it was a "Must Win" for them. Everybody has been questioning K-State's "Fight" all season and they at least showed last night that they have a little bit left.

I don't necessarily think KU "Let it happen" as you said, but the timing of this game with everything going on with KU and the things that needed to get for K-State kind of hit the ultimate storm. That happens sometimes.

Jared Grillot 11 years, 9 months ago

Have to agree. You don't walk into a rival's house and expect to walk all over, even when your win % is better there than at home. Everyone wants a shot at us, especially the purple and the black and gold. I have noticed a couple of posters commenting that everyone looked out of it except Tyrel. Since he grew up knowing the importance of this game to the people of Kansas, you would expect him to know to take this game seriously, no matter how KSU was playing in other games. Unfortunately, others on the team didn't seem to, played a lot of "me" ball, and didn't respect the rivalry enough to know that the Cats were going to play this game like it was their last. I'm not mad about losing. I'm mad because they wanted to win, and we wanted... well, it's hard to tell exactly what we were there for.

JayhawkBeerman 11 years, 9 months ago

Great article that needs to be said. The lack of maturity and composure of this team will cost us in the tournament. It takes character to play defense and stop a run. I am extremely concerned if we have enough character to take us far. It is up to Coach Self and staff to try and do what they can to band-aid some together for this team...

lama 11 years, 9 months ago

When Selby is healthy, Self needs to turn the team over and diminish Taylor's role. Too many silly mistakes and defensive lapses. Let's see what Selby can do with his playmaking ability.

Nicholas Cederlind 11 years, 9 months ago

Lack of post presence killed us. This is my official plea to ask Coach Self to PLEASE play Withey more!! I don't care if he's not Aldrich - just create a PRESENCE! And please have the twins JUMP when teams attack our bigs. Tristan Thompson of TX and Henriquez of KSU jumped right over them to the bucket!

Michael Luby 11 years, 9 months ago

Withey doesnt have the strength and speed in him to create a post presence yet. Chances are, we wont see that out of him until next season. So, I wouldnt count on him. As for the jumping part... if opposing teams drive and jump into our bigs and the twins or Trob jump too/leave their feet, thats a foul which = a bucket and one or to free attempts depending on # of fouls already... correct me if Im wrong guys.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

Get Mrs Morris to feed him! The Twins and TRob don't seem to be short on bulk! :)

Nicholas Cederlind 11 years, 9 months ago, you prefer last night's strategy, instead?

No_phog 11 years, 9 months ago

Post Play ????

is that how you spell Pullen ?

texashawk10 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm pretty sure I could score on Withey. He doesn't move his feet, doesn't use his height to get easy rebounds, and doesn't slow anybody down when they get in the paint. For anybody who says he's a better offensive player than Cole, please give examples because Withey's offensive game is the equivilent of a poor man's Sasha Kaun.

jaymar74 11 years, 9 months ago

You can't say play Withey more and be a basketball fan, not possible for the two to intermix. Withey is the most useless player on that roster, that entire roster.

slowplay 11 years, 9 months ago

It was only 1 game. This is still the same team that has won 24 games and destroyed K-State at the Phog. I'm sure HCBS will use this game as teaching tool and a motivator as KU finishes up the regular season. No matter how good you are, you are always susceptible to a bad game. i.e. Duke vs St, Johns, Texas vs USC etc. etc. It's how you respond to adversity that counts. The TA&M game and closing out at Mizz will be more of a barometer of what this team is capable of come March 17th. The Big 12 Tourney may also feature a re-match with Texas. That's the game I'd like to see.

Chris Shaw 11 years, 9 months ago

Well said Slowplay. I agree, the last 5 games are huge. I'm not sure when T-Rob is expected back, but KU needs him back healthy ASAP. The sooner KU can get stability in their lineup the better.........the only problem is that there is only 8 games left (If KU makes the Big 12 Championship tourny game) to find that stability before the start of the Big Dance.

I'm hoping KU can get healthy in the next 10 days with their 3 games and then really get some good ball going again with A&M and Mizzou.

Michael Luby 11 years, 9 months ago

KU got their A$$e$ handed to them last night. There is no other way around it. This team looks to go 13 - 3 in conference play, and probly # 2 or even 3 in the conference behind Texas. Prior comments above in reference to a Team only meeting and the Twins' Mom having a come to jesus with them are mandatory at this point. As well as HCBS using the tape from that horrid game as a huge teaching moment and motivator to respond like men to adversity from here on out or face going home like they did last year, which I know they dont want to do.

hkdonhoops 11 years, 9 months ago

For those defending him, EJ is fortunate that he didn't pick up a second technical for his reaction to the T for taunting. In my opinion, that showed his immaturity more than the reaction to the dunk.

I've wanted for EJ to step up and be a reliable player this year, but untimely turnovers and bad decision-making have been his undoing. I hope he learns from this because the team will need him this year and certainly next year (if he stays).

Dee Shaw 11 years, 9 months ago

Who cares. We lost. Does it really matter. No. All we should care about is March. Prediction. We finish the year 28-3. Second seed in the Big 12 tournament. Win the Big 12 Tournament. Enter the NCAA tournament as a #2 seed. The the real season starts. Sorry the regular season means nothing to me. All we should care about is winning six games in a row in March. If the regular season means so much than last year was an awesome year. No, it was not an awesome. It was disappointing how it ended. Why, because of March. All we remember is loosing in March against N. Iowa. Like I said, Its all about March Madness BABY.

jayhawktalk 11 years, 9 months ago

Pullen jumped sideways into TT early in the game on a 3 attempt. Your analysis is spot on, though. It was a blatant attempt to draw a foul. He repeated this all night from various spots on the floor, various defenders, and the refs consistently rewarded him for it. Not making excuses, as Pullen played great, but the refs rewarding him for jumping sideways into defenders on jump shots was ridiculous.

Ref's sucked last night, but were not the difference in the game.

Also agree, 'Kief should have been tossed.

hawkhoops 11 years, 9 months ago

Yep, those should be offensive fouls. The shooter creates the contact, but it is never called that way.

Jocelyn Kennedy 11 years, 9 months ago

Thank you!! If it's so obvious to all of us that Pullen was creating his own fouls, then why not the refs?

Spencer Goff 11 years, 9 months ago

You are never going to get that call. It's why you don't leave your feet and jump at a jump shooter.

You will never get that call.

ralphralph 11 years, 9 months ago

Tyshawn is gonna need a Pell Grant.

Surely, after the way Pullen schooled him, there must be some Tuition due.

Randy Eakin 11 years, 9 months ago

Look at the bright side...while the twins arguably played their way into the NBA against Baylor, they likely played their way back for a senior season last night. Rock Chalk!!

FLJHK 11 years, 9 months ago

Misc thoughts

  1. I want to and generally will think of this game as an anomaly. Until last night, the growth and improvement of this team over the course of the season has been extremely impressive. Last night was a major hiccup, but doesn't mean the season is lost in any way. How they react to the debacle will determine that. Losses can be a bigger learning tool than wins.

  2. I wish we scheduled more challenging early season games. Feasting on the empty calories of cupcakes does not a tough team make.

  3. The only other time I remember such a thorough beat-down during the Self era was in 2005 at Villanova. That season ended with the tourney loss to Bucknell.

  4. Hope we can avoid the state of Oklahoma for the tourney. There are 1st and 2nd round games in Tulsa. Note to NCAA - send Texas there, not Kansas.

Despite today's depression and a few ominous signs, I retain hope and belief that this could be a very special season.


Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

" I wish we scheduled more challenging early season games. Feasting on the empty calories of cupcakes does not a tough team make. " Normally, UCLA, USC, Arizon, and Memphis are decent teams. Who knew?

"The only other time I remember such a thorough beat-down during the Self era was in 2005 at Villanova. That season ended with the tourney loss to Bucknell. "

In 2008, Okie St whipped us and we won the whole enchilata!

slowplay 11 years, 9 months ago

That Okie St. game was a 1 point loss. But, that brings up a good point, that most here seem to have forgotten; losses at the end of the season can be beneficial (if lessons are learned). Just before KU lost the Okie St. game they were also beaten by Texas AND KState, both away games. They beat Texas in the Big 12 Tourney and the rest is history.

jayhawkintx73 11 years, 9 months ago

The schedule was done a couple years back. It included teams that had been in the Final Four, won National Championships, or had been top ten rated teams in the past few years. We can't control that. You can't break a contract just because "You're not good enough".

Craig Colgin 11 years, 9 months ago

True on the scheduling, but still far too many UMKC's and Ohio's on that list. Gotta do better, the chances of the UCLA, USC, Memphis teams being top 10 caliber are far far far better than Ohio and UMKC. Although, it is tough to consistently schedule top 10 teams.

jakejayhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

You can say what you want about the twins' attitudes and you will be correct. They have had significant problems this year. But last night was not an example. I believe it is unfair and irresponsible to write this article predicated on the elbow Markief "threw". The replays made it clear that he was setting up to keep his big man from moving, not to cheap shot Pullen. Yes, he made strong contact with Pullen, but that forearm was moving toward the big guy, not a guard. Pullen ran into the arm as much as 'Kief "threw" it at him. Your observation that previous behavior is resulting in tight calls is accurate. And this is a good example. My two cents.

kennethst 11 years, 9 months ago

Funny.....I don't see many comments on here anymore about Selby being "10 times better" than X. Henry.


The reality is that Selby has been a collosal failure. Some due to injury.....but mostly not.

KU should avoid any further persuit of supposed "one and done" players. They seem to be a nightmare for the program.....especially KU.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

I like Selby. He apparently is doing well in school. Other than the suspension, he has done everything that he was asked to do and when healthy,he does bring a different dimension to KU's offense. Unfortunately, that injury has hindered him, not the fact that he was highly rated. Frankly, I did not hear anyone complain when he hit that shot against USC! Finally, unlike Kentucky, we are not bringing in a load of potential one and done types and if Self did so, I would be also concerned.

Michael Leiker 11 years, 9 months ago

The Twins rough play still doesn't bother me. The constant scouling and acting like they're getting screwed on every call is what drives me crazy. They are physical players which is one of the things that makes them as good as they are. I just wish they'd own it and run with it. College Basketball has gotten too soft anyway. Loved the hard foul by Whithey on Pullen towards the end of the game.

I for one am happy we are going to have Frank the Tank in Manhattan for a while longer now that he's won two against KU. Kansas needs a real rival in KSU, and while adding a game a piece vs the South next year should supply some needed rivalries, I think it benefits KU to have a respectable KSU basketball program. This has been a zero sum game for too long, with KSU getting back to it's old self it makes the State of Kansas sysnonymous with basketball more than it already is. That exposure is good for both programs in the medium and long term. And with Frank at the helm, KU will always hold the moral high ground.

RockCaCO3 11 years, 9 months ago


The twins could take a lesson from Tyrel, when it comes to dealing with the refs. He may give the ref a quick "are you kidding me" look, but shrugs it off and plays his butt off.

jayhawkintx73 11 years, 9 months ago

The intentional called on Markieff, viewing the video. He did not throw his elbow. The player ran through him. That set the tone for the rest of the game. The refs weren't calling what they saw. They were calling it what they seemed to want it to be.

Johnson's T foul shouldn't have been. Pullen taunted several times,which would have disqualified him from the game because a T counts against the 5 T-s.

With that said, it was a mismanaged game by KU and by the refs. There is no reason that K-State couldn't have won the game, but they are certainly not 20 points better than KU on any day without help from non-players.

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 9 months ago

They were last night...even without the tech. fouls KU gave up and rolled over belly up. If you're saying the refs changed the outcome you need to remove the rose colored glasses. Sweet 16! Maybe...

simpsonjayhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Jack Nickalaus used to say how the trick to golf was controlling your "mis hits". And used to claim that he would really only catch the ball flush a handful of times in a round. Obviously a different sport, but I think it holds true to basketball as well. A team can't play great every night, but you have to find a way to keep composure and stay under control on off nights and keep yourself in the game. We have the ability to play lights out and probably beat anyone in the country, but I didn't see a shred of composure last night and for me that is a major cause for concern. We lose by 2, by 4 or even 10, I'm unhappy but not terribly concerned. We lose by 20, to a crappy K State team and thats a different issue. You can try and twist this into a positive all you want, but this team has serious problems right now.

tis4tim 11 years, 9 months ago

Good defense is what helps control "mis-hits" and we didn't bring it on the defensive end last night.

Steve Brown 11 years, 9 months ago

We have a week to mend.

next saturday game, anyone know the best KU sports bar in Long Boat Key or Bradenton?

Rodney Atkinson 11 years, 9 months ago

It's a loss, get over it. These r kids playing ball, not your own personal rag dolls. It's unbelievable how so many of u HAWK fans get on here and throw everybody under the bus because they weren't perfect for you last night.

R there problems? 90% of you lick the sweat off the floor from our players until they loose a game and then OMG "the sky is falling".

Now half of you want to reinvent HCBS coaching philosophy, change the lineup and offer all of your remedies, based on all of your inexperiences.

Most of you should take another look at why you call yourselves KU fans?

I love this university, and this program and what it stands for.

And for all you Digger Phelps, and Bob Newharts-----PLZ!

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 9 months ago

I agree completely, especially when it comes to coach. We are NOT entitled to win the Big XII every year and are NOT entitled to make the Final Four. What we are is 24-2 and kicking most everybody's butt we face! Last night was bad, but every team has those games, and we will be just fine.

Andrew Washington 11 years, 9 months ago

no, last night was an embarrassment....we deserved it though because the team needs to realize, once again, what will happen in march when they come into a game like this. Its unusual to see a team that needs so much motivation beyond a few wins. Ohio state played motivated pretty much through 24-0 and not too bad at a tough wisconsin. Pitt has also been playing better than we have. I just cant believe we could be beaten this bad in february. You know i dont just look forward to march madness to see my favorite team being the reason its called march madness. MOST of the bill self years we have been upset too early and i mean embarrassingly early. Hell we should have been to at least 3 final fours under self if not more and i think alot of people feel this.

tauck 11 years, 9 months ago

billy boy, billy boy, billy best get control of your team discipline wise and you better do it now. Nobody is to blame for our problems discipline wise except you. You know as well as I do that it all starts from the top and the top is YOU!!! Here is a rule we use on the high school level...when a call is made against you, hand the ball to the official and sprint to the other end of the court and get set up and focused on defense. If it is an off the ball call, then sprint down to the other end of the court and get focused on defense. when you slam dunk, before any other celebrating is done or jungle yells are given, you must first acknowledge the pass. Failure to do these things will result in remooval from the game. During a game my word is law, any backtalk will result in immediate removal from the game without the possibility of return. The game is not the time to be questioning me, thats why god created an office with a door thats always open and also practice. In these to places ask me as many questions as you'd like

kennethst 11 years, 9 months ago

Bill Self does not need advice from you, amateur. He's a great coach. Do you recall 2008? He won antional championship. I think he knows what he is doing. He's certainly not the problem. Poor point guard play is the problem.

Let me take a wild guess.....but i'm going to say you're not a division one coach, right? If only Self would hire you as an assistant....that would solve all of our problems!!

Kristen Downing 11 years, 9 months ago

A lucky three and missed free throws gave us the opportunity to win....not coaching. We barely got past Davidson. Good coaching again?!

Saad Saifeddine 11 years, 9 months ago

Tyshawn is NOT worthy of being a Kansas basketball STARTING point guard. And before you starting calling me bandwagon fan and TT basher, please rest assured that I am a diehard fan and a jayhwak for life, with my future children and their children becoming jayhawks as well. And I really don't enjoy writing this post but I have to. I love KU basketball so much that it hurts me to watch TT play as carelessly and irresponsably as he does. Man I would give my life to have the chance that TT has representing KU on the court. But he does it so badly it kills me. I feel he takes his starting spot for granted. He just thinks that no matter how he plays, he will still see major playing time. And that's to be blamed on Self in my opinion. How do you keep a PG on the floor that has 1 assist and 6 turnovers??!!! This was the perfect opportunity for Self to bench TT and teach him a lesson and make him earn his playing time. I have NEVER watched a starting PG at KU that takes such bad care of the basketball. This actually upsets me more than the loss. There were several problems that surfaced during the game last night (lack of strong inside presence when needed, lack of discipline, lack of composure, etc..) but I believe those problems can be fixed by march. What I'm REALLY worried about is the fact that we don't have a good point guard running the team. and that is a prerequisite for a good tournament run. You win championships with strong guard play. Am I the only one concerned about this? Please share your feedbacks

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

Who or what are you to judge! That is Self's job which btw he is very good at it!

Saad Saifeddine 11 years, 9 months ago

It is called opinions, and everybody has the right to have one.. And my opinion happens to be that KU (as a top notch basketball program) should have a better STARTING point guard (and I emphasize the word "starting").

Jack Wilson 11 years, 9 months ago

cshjhawk -- the pom-poms are in the closet

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 9 months ago

He had a bad game for sure, but to what inside knowledge do you have of his entitlement? For all you know, he is working as hard as anybody on the team, and his play is bothering him far more than it is bothering you. I bet you'd hate it if he pretended to "know" you and what you stand for...

As for the point guard position, do you have a better alternative? Last night, TT was AWFUL, but he has also had some very good games this year. EJ and Selby clearly aren't ready, and Reed and Morningstar seem better suited at the off-guard.

Theutus 11 years, 9 months ago

EJ looked a lot more "ready" than TT last night, but he still didnt' get many minutes...

He got yanked for 1 turnover, then for the T. For the T i can understand I guess, but for the other TO? No.

If TT played by the same standards, he'd have been yanked after the first possession for a TO.

kennethst 11 years, 9 months ago

You're a bit harsh....but pretty much correct. He is often quite awful. Maybe he would be ok off the bench. But he is erratic, a terrible shooter and a turnover machine. Yet sometimes he does play well. I don't get it. But we need a consistent PG. We don't have one.....and I fear any hope of a a Nat Champ is over.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 9 months ago

and this is exactly why you are not coach.

jman18562 11 years, 9 months ago

WOW. You guys are pathetic. You all adored this "horrible, pathetic, embarrassing, miserable, low life thug team" less than 24 hours ago. You thought they were awesome. You were so in love with the stories of adversity this team brought you. And the Morris twin were unstoppable super stars making KU a lock to win the Natty Championship.

Well guess what? They just lost the second game of the season against a team that loathe and hate the hawks. This was K-States National Championship. But what do you do? Cry, point fingers, and trash talk your own team. They play like Champs for 24 games and at the first sign of trouble you bail on them? Well, get over it. Because this team will get over it. What kind of fans are you?

Chris Shaw 11 years, 9 months ago

Who are "You" talking to? You should call out those individuals you disagree with.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 9 months ago

You changed your picture...


When you had that picture up you could have posted that you loved Mizzou, slept with John Calipari, and wore a prom dress with Santa on the moon... I was reading it all... multiple times.

rwhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

To be fair, I think a lot of people have had these thoughts and at times I have seen fans attempt to express those thoughts to only get completely shut down by others because, hey, its almost impossible to criticize with a lot of success a team that is either undefeated or has only one loss. My guess is that many of the subtle things fan have noticed throughout the year became glaring last night, and last nights game gave folks an open door to not get the "shut responses" fired back at them. In my opinion, nothing brand new happened last night, except that it all happened together for almost 40 minutes.

But, there is probably many who you have correctly characterized with your post and that is fair...unfortunately, we probably cannot tell much of the difference.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 9 months ago

Ehhh, I don't think anybody has adored Super T. for a long time. I'm proud to say I have been bashing him since Fight Night at the Burge.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 11 years, 9 months ago

wWhen I say Sunday's JW with the big headlines proclaiming that the Ohio State loss had propelled Kansas to "#1" (what's THAT??) I knew the predictable outcome. It has happened so many times before when the sports jock writers get the runs with their mouth and pen and start saying these stupid things. These kids can read. And they are kids. They seem to think they can make some sort of worthy statement by disfiguring their arms and bodies with churlish grafitti, that this mutilation is somehow "adjult" That alone belies an attitude of a small child who has very little onnection to the real world and it applies very much to these sorts of situations.

The notion of "#1" is a stupid notion to begin with, any team can beat any team given the conditions, and last night the conditions were ripe for the "horrible loss" as some of you have stated. It was coming sometime soon. Texas proved that these child-men could be defeated in a game, and that alone should have been the wake-up call. The attitudes displayed by the grafitti stained bodies of some of these child-boys is very poor and very childish and marks them as unreliable and undependable. And when they finally do have to find a real job, they will discover their billboards to the world that were so cool to the chicks in college are markers to a boss and employer of pretty immature character.

Steve Gantz 11 years, 9 months ago

I don't have time to read all this, it's probably been said, but, Injuries have really hurt this team right now. TRob and Selby would have helped last night. Elijah's dunk was spectacular, too bad he lost his composure so quickly. I did think he was fouled, but just can't do that at that point. Probably wouldn't have mattered one way or another.

kennethst 11 years, 9 months ago

Seriously.....can anybody see Tyshawn Taylor leading KU through the gauntlet of NCAA tournement games to a championship??? can't. And that is the real shame. This team could be great with a PG.....but we don't have one.

TT has some talent and could contribute....but we need a Sherron Collins or Russell Robinson.

I will still hope for the best......but my guess is an early exit in March. I just don't see it after last night. was only 1 game......but the problems are so evident.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

We play with what we have and yes, I think KU can win the whole thing!

kennethst 11 years, 9 months ago

And what are your views on unicorns and leprechauns??? I fear you're setting yourself up for some major heartbreak and disappointment.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

Unicorn would be a great point guard! Leprechauns sound like Notre Dame and I know that they will screw it up! Otherwise, life goes on for me my friend!

texashawk10 11 years, 9 months ago

This team had Sherron last year and everybody else just stood around and watched Sherron put this team on his back. R-Rob would be a nice fit for this team, but the PG play isn't the biggest issue for KU. KU's team defense, or lack thereof, is going to be what determines how far this team goes in March.

Rodney Atkinson 11 years, 9 months ago

That's just what I'm talking about (jman). We are spoiled and unappreciative. How many fans have what we have or would give to have it. We are truly blessed.

There is nothing better than sitting in THE FIELDHOUSE and experiencing the moment. RCJH always.

Dyrk Dugan 11 years, 9 months ago

i am frankly surprised at what happened last night...not the L, but the thrasing we absorbed. it was twofold:

  1. ksu's D. FRUSTRATED the heck out of us. our offense was completely out of sync. and this is my first complaint against the twins. they didn't work hard enough...and our guards forgot how to dribble drive or handle the ball.

  2. KU's D. again just frustrating to watch. too many open looks....too many jump ups on fakes. Pullen played us to the hilt last night....Tyshawn wasn't really close to him on the three when he was fouled...but it LOOKED like it to each official, standing on the side of the play...if they were facing him head on, no way is that a foul....Pullen jumped into him. but it will always be called, because we were out of position. and if i see one more duck down beneath screens at the top of the key, i will lose it. Tyshawn did it all first half...and Pullen dissected us.

  3. Twins composure. both got into foul trouble....Markieff, the leading rebounder in the league, had zero. how do you not get a rebound when you play half the game? and the intentional foul? bogus call. like someone posted above, he was leaning into Kelly to screen him...and Pullen went right in between....again, another great acting job by Jacob (academy anyone?), so when Higgins calls the foul he thinks to himself..."those twins again, was that an elbow to the face?...let's go look at it." so they look at it. i don't care what anyone says, he did NOT intentionally hit him in the face or head. i mean seriously, do you want Pullen to go through both guys cleanly to get to the shooter? I don', i don't want the guy punched to prevent it...but that's not what was going on. he was moving to screen KELLY..and had his arms up. the old joke applies here..."i hit him hard with my face on his fist."

we need Selby AND TRob back healthy. all the talk above about the point guard play...well, Josh should be able to help with that. he has NOT had continuous time to develop...he was just starting to get there before the last injury...and now he's re learning again. we need TRob back too. he was really getting going since his mom's passing...and now he'll have retest everything, because physically, i don't know how he can be 100% even after he comes back.

Bottom line: K-state played thug ball, Pullen was brilliant, the crowd was there..and we didn't handle it at all. period. one game...they're now 3-42 vs. us the last 17 years...we'll start a new streak next time. let's get ready for the 'Buffs.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 9 months ago

This team can still win the national championship. Repeat .. this team can still win the national championship. What has changed? What is there about this team that we (some) didn't already know prior to Monday? Nothing.

  1. We do not have a play-maker at point guard that values the assist over his personal scoring.
  2. We have a point-guard who is prone to blow-ups like last night, and stretches of horribly inconsistent play.
  3. Marcus and Markieff have significant emotional control issues.

These are the main talking points. But nothing has changed, has it? I know some continually defended our point guard, but last night might even sway them a bit. But TT is still valuable to this team, and a necessary component to our success. But my point is (and has been for some time) that we need more out of our point guard. All of the evidence has been there all along .. losses just cause many to notice as the power of the “we’re 24-1, why are you complaining” argument has less luster.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

We play with what we have and entrust Self with coming up with the schemes to succeed.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 9 months ago

(cont) Here is the portion of my post last night regarding the point guard play:

  1. Tyshawn Taylor. 7 turnovers. First, do not believe the ESPN stat track or any boxscore that says 6 turnovers. Go to the 4:53 mark of the first half. The turnover was given to Reed. However, TT delivered a perfect pass, right to Reed’s foot, that bounced directly out of bounds. Reed never caught the ball, and couldn’t. Self immediately took Taylor out. 7 turnovers, 1 assist. 5 turnovers in the first half. Again, as I’ve said, zero creation from the point (other than one drive from the wing, and dish to Marcus that got blocked). Perfect example of what I’ve been saying. There will be games where we’ll need it. Where guys aren’t hot, where we need something from our point guard to get us in a flow, to create points. And what did we get? Nothing. I caught some flak for pointing out that TT’s games vs. MU and ISU were both poor. Those of you that continually sing TT's praises are .. respectfully .. not grasping what it means to be a point guard. Perhaps tonight will help. It does not mean lowering your head and going to the hoop. It does not mean clanking a floater hoping someone rebounds and scores. It does not mean a simple pass to the wing (one handed or otherwise). Being a point guard means making your teammates better, leading a break, driving and dishing, creating open shots, lobs for a dunk, threading the needle. It means assists before any other stat column. He was so bad, Self benched him for long stretches, playing him a season low 22 minutes. This has been and is incredibly concerning. It is hard to imagine Royce Woolridge playing this poorly in 22 minutes. Painful to watch. If we get reliable point guard play in the first half, perhaps one turnover instead of 6 point guard turnovers (5 from TT, 1 from EJ), and 4 or 5 baskets created, this is a different game. A different game. One assist in 22 minutes. I remained hopeful that he can revert to early season form. I have perhaps lost faith.

  2. More point guard. We are playing major stretches, trying to come back, with Reed and Brady at the 1 and 2. Come on. Seriously? At KU? The situation at point guard is our Achilles' heel.

  3. Without a doubt, we need Selby back in the flow. Get the guy healthy. And give him the ball. Just give him the ball. Make him the point guard and bite the bullet. I'm interested in better alternatives. But there are none.

Jared Grillot 11 years, 9 months ago

Can't argue here. There used to be a concept out there - "Floor General" - that we just don't have right now.

Jhawk59 11 years, 9 months ago

The Morris twins previous behavior earned Markieff that foul last night, I'm not convinced that elbow was purposeful.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 9 months ago

(cont) My concern about TT is that he refuses to be a distributor. I say "refuse" because we saw him do this much more effectively in the first 9 games of the season, when he averaged 6.4 assists per game. Now he is at 4.7. What's worse, he is well below 4.7 since the first 9 games to move the average down to 4.7 from 6.4. In the first 9 games .. and I posted this at the time .. I felt that I was watching a new player. That fizzled, by coincidence or not, the exact same moment that Selby stepped on the court vs. USC. Now, he is basically the exact same player we had last season, but he’s on the ball. Not good. He is a poor shooter from the outside, and he is a below average finisher on the drive. And he doesn’t create.

To win a national championship this season, coach Self needs to engage in a calculated roll of the dice. Three considerations

  1. Do we have a reasonable opportunity to win the NCAA championship with TT as the point guard? and
  2. Would another alternative provide us the potential to increase our chances of winning it all? and
  3. Is the risk of a switch at point guard worth the gamble vs. staying the course?

My answers are 1) No , 2) Yes, and 3) Yes.

Two thoughts - 1. Immediately insert Selby as the point guard, and have TT be your back-up point guard, moving him to the 2 spot as the starter. 2. Make EJ your starting point guard, put Selby at the 2. TT off the bench.

I understand that there will be some low points, but pick one and just do it. Heck, the low points are likely no lower than TT's game last night, right? To do otherwise is to ignore the obvious problem. To refuse to even attempt to adjust is to bury your head in the sand and to accept your fate. I understood some of the discussion about TT getting an opportunity to improve. When will it happen? Sometimes, as a coach, you might be surprised that there may actually be another way that ends up working, that is different than your initial thought.

Look, I get it .. Selby is not playing well; EJ has had major downers. But what else do you do? I, for one, would no longer place the fate of this team in a point guard that is not cut out for the job at the D-1 level. He is generally a solid role player. Just not a D-1 point guard, on an elite team. He can play an important role on this team .. just not the #1 point guard.

I would choose option 1 .. I would say “Josh, you’re the man. Make your teammates better.” And I would give him the ball, be patient, understanding that rolls of the dice can come up snake eyes. But sometimes, you roll a winner.

This team can win a national championship. It just needs a tweak.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

You guys ar a joke to be sucked in by a writer who mischaracterized a player.s actions!

Kye Clark 11 years, 9 months ago

Great post. I agree with almost everything you said, other than your opening and closing statement. I don't know that this is a national championship caliber team, even with a tweak. I was saying before the K-State game that this looked like an elite 8 level team. I am in 100% agreement that moving Selby to the point is the best course of action to try and improve this team's ceiling, but I don't know that it will work either. I agree it's worth the risk rather than to just stay the course, but it's a risk nonetheless. Had Selby been available from day 1 and then not had this set-back with his injury I would feel much more optimistic. So while I agree nothing has changed in the last 24 hours regarding the make-up of this team, I was never leading the charge that it's National Championship or bust this year. I just don't know if the pieces are all there.

Ron Franklin 11 years, 9 months ago

good stuff hem/ict. i'm so sick over the turnovers last night i am am beside myself. i can't remember a night where so many players lost their heads, especially the 1 guy that is supposed to be the protector of the ball.

WDC_Jayhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

Keegan makes a good point that a better writer would have made two or three games ago, and one that is less apropos after the Kansas State game than it was in previous games.

The Morris twins have a completely bewildering tendency to behave like nitwits and, occasionally, bullies. Last night, having watched the replay two or three times, I can't really tell that Markieff was trying to shiv Pullen. I think it was more a situation of a forearm riding up than of him trying to tomahawk the dude. And it makes even less sense when you consider that the Morri have previously stated that they're tight with Pullen off the court. I could understand a hard foul on a friend, but it's harder to imagine punching them in the face on purpose.

As far as the game goes, that was completely miserable, easily one of the five worst Kansas losses of the Bill Self era, including tournament upsets.There was a complete lack of intensity and it's startling when you can tell a team has given up 10 minutes from the end of the game.

But I also think this game said more about Kansas State than it did about us. That team desperately needed to answer the bell, or it will not make the NCAA tournament. That team played at home, had a jacked up Octogon of Doom (loath as I am to call it that) behind them and they had a very good player who finally went off. Fair play to them.

There were disconcerting moments throughout that game, but I tend to think that, rather than micro-analysis, the best thing to do is to look at the response. Was this the beginning of a tank-job? Or was it an aberration. It is easy to forget that two of Kansas' three best teams of all time had disheartening, even frightening downturns around this time of the year. In fact, both the '88 and '08 squads lost to Kansas State! As someone mentioned, '08 also had a couple of humiliating losses on the road in the Big 12.

I don't want to sound pollyannaish. But while I think this game raises the warning level on this team, more evidence is needed before declaring them dead.

Woody Cragg 11 years, 9 months ago

Don't think there is any doubt, completely unintentional. They are friends. It's a bull$hit rule, which was intenlsy emphasized to the offiials before the season. They are required to go to replay on any elbow to the face. Reed got hit in the face with a fist and HCBS went lunar when they wouldn't look at the replay. The rule will be tweaked or changed next year. I'd put money on it. That aside, it makes no diff-they have to play within the rules as they are. Teach them!

Woody Cragg 11 years, 9 months ago

First off the elbow rule is bull$hit. A fist to the face didn't get a look but a 6'9" elbow at face level 6'2" or whatever always does. That being said, the guys that occasionally show up with the all about me attitude will bring this "team" down. I really think they will review or change the video rule on the elbows but that will not help the trash talk, or whining & pi$$ing & moaning. Personally I'd run em till they drop. And if that didn't work I'd run em some more. Old school coaches would suspend them, run them, kick the living $hit out of them until they conformed or left. Coaches with gazillion dollar deals don't work that way anymore. First thing I would do is bench Selby. If he can't get it done he can't play. How long has HCBS been dealing with the flagrant foul crap? All season? Bench em. If it costs a loss tough stuff. Sit em down-for longer than one friggin game. If they take their toys & go home let em go. There's not enough minutes to go around now & alot more talent coming in. JMO but if TT had to carry the ball everywhere he went for a couple of weeks, he might learn how to take care of it.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

" First thing I would do is bench Selby. If he can't get it done he can't play. "


Woody Cragg 11 years, 9 months ago

Main reason is TO's. If he can't play the point that means he is in there with TT or EJ. Too many TO's to overcome. Second, they've played like a completely different team while he's been out. Much better in all phases. It is what it is. Third his confidence is not up to D-1 level yet, even if the other aspects were. Missed far too much time learning how the rest of the guys on the floor play. I personally think Releford deserves the minutes more based on overall results. Plus he'll be back next year. Also has been indicated that HCBS thinks he's sandbagging a little on his injury. Healing up for the draft or whatever. I don't think he's coming back regardless. Has been a huge disappointment for most everyone. Fundamentals need lots of work. This is "what people with no confidence in some of the players say". If it's broke you have to try to fix it. That's how the glass stays half-full.

douglas6280 11 years, 9 months ago

Too bad Self has to try and coach some of his players that are essentially 14 year old kids in a man's body (the twins, Taylor, Johnson, and Little). Of course he has done little to mange/change their behavior. Benching them for entire games might do the trick. This team has zero chance of making it to a Final Four.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

This is what people with no confidence say!

Woody Cragg 11 years, 9 months ago

Just cause we're old don't mean we're blind.

douglas6280 11 years, 9 months ago

Or those of us who have taken off the rose colored glasses...

Woody Cragg 11 years, 9 months ago

Cont...If you clear guys out with the ball instead of elbows you don't get the foul. That's what we were taught. Clear them hard too, the ball in the face hurts bad enough. Just hooking arms does not get position either. You have to get your legs & feet on the topside as well. They WILL back off. These guys are in need of D for discipline and no one showed up last night. That was the worst beatdown I remember them taking in a couple of years (maybe Okie St). Glad it ain't my job to fix it cause they wouldn't be my friends for very long afterwards. They'd damn sure remember what I wanted them to correct. JMO right or wrong.

Theutus 11 years, 9 months ago

Agreed... I will cry man tears when Reed leaves after this season....

He is the epitome of what it means to be a Jayhawk. All class, and all effort.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

He is the Kansan that we need to let every other player learn what it means playing for the Jathawks.

4jhawks4ku 11 years, 9 months ago

Kansas is 24-2. Granted we didnt play well at all. Careless 7 or 8 turnovers, Mario Little shooting everytime he touched the ball.. Missed free throws. We also received 8 or 9 highly phantom lean in fouls, phantom travelling calls, and others. Lets face it, from now on we won't be getting any calls from these big 12 refs so we'll have to play that much harder. I'm sure they'll get it together by Saturday. All you good timers and trolls can now go back to your own sites. KU fans who are turning on the team should be ashamed.

Woody Cragg 11 years, 9 months ago

If you think posters are turning on the team you are delusional. Maybe you live in "mandy pandy land". Alot of the guys need an attitude adjustment in the worst way. Maybe you haven't seen enough of their performances this year. Trash talking when you're down 15 points? Maybe you're the troll that doesn't care. Deam on brother, this is the way teams self-destruct. Maybe you've forgotten Bucknell or Northern Ia. History does repeat itself, especially bad behavior principles.

shinguard 11 years, 9 months ago

At this point, Angel's jersey has a better chance of being hung from the rafters than her sons

Justin Carlson 11 years, 9 months ago

OK FOLKS!! A loss is just 1 loss! Maybe not!! I pose this question to all of you would you rather win with a team that represents the university with class, hard work, and respect? Or would you take a team with leaders that if they were not involved with basketball may be in jail (insert Philly and Jersey) I dont get it and I have a hard time understanding the way coach disciplines the crew. Football and Facebook TT? He is still a no balling selfish baby! The twins BS has no control on them what so ever! N O N E! Should have dealt with it after the Cal game! NOPE! Meanwhile we rally around a tradegy and refocus but still the underlying problems exsists Mental midgets leading the team.

Hey coach when recruiting think 4 year classy/respectful players that will wear the uniform with pride and not disrespect the whole university!!

By the way Josh lift up your shirt and ask Tyrel how a man is supposed to play!!

Tyrel Reed is still the man!!

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

Tyrel by virtue of his performance was the man yesterday! Nonetheless, Josh is more of a man than most will ever be and it is not fair to question his manhood! He is going to prove a lot of you wrong and please don't dis the guy when he makes millions and does not contribute one iota to the University!

Hank Cross 11 years, 9 months ago

I've had enough of people who were praising the twins earlier in this week now calling them jailbirds and thugs. Brady got busted for a DUI, which is worse than anything the twins have done, yet he is held up as a roll model.

Woody Cragg 11 years, 9 months ago

Like that? That's Lee Ermy from his drill instructor psychiatrist comercial for Gieco. Funny commercial.

Justin Carlson 11 years, 9 months ago

Thank you sir!! Man it is hard to watch the game with my kids and explain to them why the Morris' cryin instead of playing!! Why is Tyrel playing in severe pain and Josh isn't! When I told them after the Jordan Brand announcement he was a stud! Was I wrong!!

Max Kandinsky 11 years, 9 months ago

KU wasn't mentally ready and they were taken by surprise, so when things weren't going well, they got tensed up and made bad plays mentally and physically, end of story. They'll learn from this and will improve. I can't believe all the posters on here that are so ready to bash the players, coaching, and whatever else they thought of while sitting on their comfy couches.

Markieff's intentional foul was not intentional and had nothing to do with his "bad attitude". He, like the rest of the team was starting to question every move and was late getting to where he knew he should be. Just because Pullin's face is at the height of his elbows doesn't mean it was intentional, he was just late in trying to make the correct play. Quit watching in slow motion where everything looks so calculated. If you've ever played the game, these things happen.

EJ's technical was uncalled for, but if it would have sparked emotion and put KU on a run to catch K-State, this also wouldn't be an issue. KU plays with an attitude this year that many years in the past we've lacked. Although that attitude needs to be demonstrated in a more positive way, you have to take the good with the bad.

Kye Clark 11 years, 9 months ago

Posted this on another thread, but since this seems to be the normal post-game feed today I'll re-post here (not sure when Keegan's articles became the norm that everyone posted on, but no matter):

What an absolute embarrassment. KU did nothing well last night (except for shoot free throws, in which they were adequate). No semblance of an offense, poor defense (all though I will say not quite as poor as the stats/score indicate. Many of Pullen's shots were closely guarded), out-manned on the glass, and didn't take care of the ball. Plenty of blame to go around, but certainly some parties are more responsible for this debacle than others. Tyshawn...I'm done holding out any hope for him. I was fooled once by his play in the early non-conference part of the season, then I was starting to get my hopes up just a bit after the Iowa State game. But he simply does not make his teammates better, and is not a threat to take over a game himself. We were all talked into this "we can live with a couple of his brain-dead plays because those will be out-weighed by his 'wow' plays and overall positive contributions"...anyone buying that now? I'm sure his supporters will say I'm being overly-critical of him and that while yes he had a horrible game it was just one game, but the more I watch him play the more I think we simply "hide" his mistakes when things are going good, but when we're not playing well he will never be one to right the ship, but instead will hasten along its sinking. Hopefully coach Self finally realized this last night, and that is why he played Selby. Reading into his comments, both here and in his post-game radio interview with Chris Piper, this may be the case.

Regarding Selby, I've been saying since his injury that we need him back and into rhythm quickly, and have been debated by posters that we play better without him. My argument has been that every other one of our perimeter players is capable of performing at a high level and positively impacting the game, but only in a complimentary capacity. When the Twins are ineffective, contained, in foul trouble, etc we cannot lean on any of these guys. We cannot run offense through them. Nobody wanted to see it because everyone was playing so great and they couldn't fathom the Twins being taken out of their game. Reality hit hard last night. When we can't run offense though the Twins we have no clear second plan of attack. I don't know that Selby will progress enough in the amount of time we have left to be the guy that can carry us through some stretches, but he has the skill set to do so. Early in the game I thought he was pretty invisible out there, but was simply glad he was out there. He needs to know he can play through that pain. In the second half I saw some glimpses of him being aggressive, taking the ball to the hoop and whatnot, so I am encouraged a bit.

Kye Clark 11 years, 9 months ago

(cont.) Immediately after the game it was the first thing up on Sportscenter, and they led into it with the quote from Marcus about wanting to be #1 because he wanted to get everybody's best shot and he thought they could take it. In retrospect, has there ever been a more foolish comment? If they can't take the best shot from a middle of the road, one offensive weapon team like K-State, if they can't fight through a bad game to at least compete...Self clearly has his work cut out for him trying to get this team ready for the NCAA tournament. No more worrying about chasing down Texas for the league crown. That's gone. No more talk about chasing down the #1 ranking. That's gone. Just focus on getting better.

Regarding Markieff's intentional foul - it may be time for Self to sit him down for a game. I know in doing this he will also be getting punished for Marcus's sins, lumping all their thuggery together and labeling it "the Twins", but something has to happen. This was supposedly addressed this week! What is it going to take for these guys to understand? If one of these guys does this in a tournament game...all the hard work of their teammates, the coaching staff...gone. A whole season can be flushed down the drain - even if they don't get ejected - because they are that important to this team. And in the post-game discussion I saw many posters defending the play as incidental. After watching it another dozen times or way. He wasn't rebounding, didn't have the ball, wasn't tied up with anybody - so what was his elbow doing up at shoulder level? He clearly had that guy in his field of vision - not like he had his back turned and didn't know he was coming. This team needs to understand that there is a difference between playing tough, and playing dirty. Between having some swagger and class, and acting like knuckleheads. Which...Elijah - what are you doing? Why are you jawing at and staring down a guy after a dunk when your team is down by...15 or whatever it was at that point? Ridiculous.

The other thing that I feel worth mentioning was that last night's broadcast reaffirmed my belief that Bob Knight is brutal. His "favorite play of the year", where Pullen shot faked and got Tyshawn in the air resulting in 3 free throws, while a smart play on Pullen's part was a totally bogus call. He had to cock out his hip while jumping sideways to initiate that contact, and not one mention of that from Knight. Then he started in with the ridiculous counting in spanish. Later in the game he said (paraphrasing a bit) "I think it's real important for Kansas to get a bucket here, just like it's real important for K-State to get a bucket on their next possession." Huh? No more further analysis or explanation? So you're saying in basketball it's important to score? Thanks. I had no idea.

Hoping these guys have a long, grueling week of practice and get their heads on right.

Max Kandinsky 11 years, 9 months ago

You can watch Markieff's foul a dozen more times, but if you don't understand that he was trying to set a pick on Pullen, then of course it will look bad to you. If you've ever played ball, one of the main drills is to quickly slide across the lane so you can get into position. To do this quickly, you have to raise your elbow to create momentum. Markieff was late, but he was just trying to do what he has been trained to do. Watch it in real time speed and you'll see he was trying to get into position.

IMO, both brothers have been very sportsman like the last few games, helping others off the floor, patting opposing players on the rear after a good play, or do you just look for the bad.

Kye Clark 11 years, 9 months ago

Considering you just joined the site today, it's pretty weak to come onto these boards with statements like "if you've never played ball", "I played D-1 college ball", etc. Whether someone played ball or not, we are all anonymous posters here, so trying to prop up your own or belittle my credibility with the whole "if you've never played ball" act is tired. Been seen on this board plenty of times and doesn't fool anybody.

And if you hadn't just joined the site today you'd know that I often point out the positives. Get used to the site before shooting off at an established poster rookie.

Max Kandinsky 11 years, 9 months ago

icthawkfan: please re-read my comment, I said if you've ever (not never) played ball. It wasn't a put down, I just didn't want to assume you knew what the drill was, especially since you specifically asked a question in your post as to why his elbows were at shoulder level. I was explaining why.

Also, what difference does it matter when someone makes their first post? Knowledge about a game and one's opinions are not magically increased with post counts. I'm sorry you couldn't reply to my observations and assumed it was a personal attack.

hawksfan08 11 years, 9 months ago

This what have you done for me lately stuff is absurd.

Look back at the 08 team. They got drubbed in Manhattan by an unranked k-state team. It worked out alright for them I'd say. I would bet the comments on this bored looked a lot similar then. (That team also lost to texas and osu in conference play).

How quickly everyone forgets selby was averaging 14 and 5 in the 3 games before he was hurt. Or that TRob is probably our 3rd best player and we have no depth without him up front

They'll learn from the loss and get better. I do hope I never see a KU team quit like that again though. Everyone outside of Reed looked like they would've rather been on a bus home after the half.

Kye Clark 11 years, 9 months ago

Well I'd agree that last night's game brought out the doubting Thomas in many fans, but some of us (myself included) have been trying to sound the alarm for weeks now. This team has issues, and in my opinion we saw the biggest one last night. When a team develops a game plan to neutralize/contain/marginalize the Twins we do not have a secondary plan of attack on offense. Sure we have other weapons - we've seen Mario, Travis, Brady, Tyrel all go off and have big games - but their success is totally predicated on establishing our inside presence. Who can we lean on other than the Twins? I love Tyrel. He's all fight no quit. Everyone would be wise to look to him for leadership. But he has limitations. We need dynamic guard play from at least one spot. One guy who can carry the team for long stretches during the game, who can create positives on the offensive end when we go stale. So it's not a "what have you done for me lately" attitude. Maybe for some fans, but maybe some are just waking up to the reality that many of us have seen for quite awhile.

As to your other points - in '08 we were beaten by #24 ranked K-State (not unranked) by 9 points, and were only down 2 at the half. Hardly a drubbing. Also, the make-up of the '08 team was dramatically different from this year's squad. That team was together for 2 years with clearly defined roles. This year's team is trying to incorporate Selby & guys coming off red-shirts, and still appears to be in a state of flux regarding the roles of the players. I do agree that this team is missing TRob and and healthy Josh Selby.

dynamitehawk 11 years, 9 months ago

I really can't believe we are 24-2. Unreal, given that last year we lost two lottery picks and Sherron and his balls of steel.

Great season so far. Bad loss, but I predict at team meeting shortly. Hopefully the outcome cuttin' nets.

dArnall 11 years, 9 months ago

Boy some fans, real K.U FANS? Give it a break these kids have lost 2 games, granted they did not show up last night. Do us real fans a favor and not cheer when they do good, I bet you are the same ones that gave them H--l back in 08 when they went on to win it all and was bragging about it, hum how soon we forget. And check the replay from under the basket, pullen actually ran in to his own mans shoulder before he even touch Morris, and I really think E.J was giving the ref it what for not calling a foul. Just my take on a few things, hey i have an IDEA, why don't all you people that are being so critical to the young men, walk on next time, get out and try to show us how the game is supposed to be played,,,ha

Kye Clark 11 years, 9 months ago

"Us real fans"? Coming from a guy that joined the site today, I'm guessing school just got out and he got tired of taking grief from the kids who are k-state fans and came on here to blow off a little steam.

Talk about people who were critical of play in '08, I'd rather see some things that need fixed than to go in every year thinking everything is fine like last year when we were 33-2 going into the tournament thinking we were a lock for the Championship then have your whole world collapse with a second round exit. So give you a break the kids have lost 2 games? So had last year's team.

Being critical of the team you are a fan of doesn't make you less of a fan. If anything it makes you more of a fan, rather than just blindly thinking we are the greatest and shrugging off one game. Wake up. And it's not just fans who are calling out EJ and the Twins for those plays - the guys calling the game, the coaches, the writers on this site.

Steve Brown 11 years, 9 months ago

If you don't learn from your mistakes you are bound to repeat them.

I'm glad this happened so we can get exposed and grow from it. We play for the banners in the rafters and unless Texas wheels come off, we aren't playing likely to win the conference crown. So we win the Post season sprint shootout and then on to the dance.

Keep the agents away from our players till season end.

side bar: didn't Taylor play better the last few weeks when Selby was on injured reserve, not looking over his shoulder....maybe just maybe a healtheir Selby makes TT overthink and not play free wheeling.

Ron Franklin 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm not upset about last nights loss. I'm upset that this team has proven over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over............

they do not learn from their past mistakes.

bad shooting night, fine. great defensive scheme by Martin, fine. Blow up crazy in your face Pullen, fine.

Making the same mistakes repeatedly borders on the fringe of insanity. No putting in effort 100% of the time is unacceptable.

regardless of the elbow rule, the twins continue to put themselves in the position to be called for it. fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, right?

Why this team can't be great.

No true point guard No defensive-minded post players Inability to guard 3 ball Inability to stop penetrating guards as shot clock runs down Inconsistent free throwers

ANd one other thing....something I've never seen before, maybe I just have not noticed....but these players are talking back to Coach Self more than I have ever seen before. Get a grip on these kids, Coach. When you allow kids to shout at you from the court, it tells me you've lost control of this team.

No_phog 11 years, 9 months ago

Shouldn't the coach be held responsible for these short-comings?

I would think SO !

dArnall 11 years, 9 months ago

And whos calling out the twins and e.j, well lets see, same experts that had K-State league champions. Go ahead and listen to them, seems like thats where you get your info...

Kye Clark 11 years, 9 months ago

Their own coaches are calling out! What don't you understand about that? Listen to the post game interviews, both here and on the radio. Or read the articles on this site just this week about how the thuggish play has been addressed multiple times this year. Or...just look at the fact that EJ was taken right out of the game following his immature act. It's not rocket science. I get my info from the source...the head coach!

ancient_hawk 11 years, 9 months ago

True. Plus a couple of other things:

No way was that an intentional. Kieff set up the pick and roll by setting his forearm against Kelly. Pullen ran through the gap and got clotheslined. It happens. But because it happened to Kieff, his reputation preceeded him. If it weren't the "KU way", I think Self would gladly take the fine for publicly calling the refs out as well as his players.

Get off Bill's ass. Self might use restraint during the game to the point of looking disinterested at times; and humor and mild snark in front of the media, but I will bet his face matched the crimson jerseys behind closed doors.

squawkhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

They looked like league champs last night!

true_patriot 11 years, 9 months ago

That piece seems kind of whiny to me as do lots of the comments. Yes there was lack of composure, yes the twins have more to learn about maintaining there cool and not throwing their elbows around so much, yes TT had a bad game.

Big deal. How quickly we forget what the sentiment was for this group of kids at the beginning of the season last fall. They're just kids - and we've been spoiled by the exceptional level of play and character and coaching we've seen. Injuries and personal emotional traumas and the national spotlight - most of the elite teams have had crappy games to some degree or the other.

I hope last night's loss was a learning experience but why all the intense bashing and denigrating of these young kids? They're not thugs, they're not megalomaniacs, they're not awful. We have one of the greatest programs in the country and we have one game where our team has an off night and can't get into rhythm and suddenly we're all pissy and whiny and petulant? Get over it.

No_phog 11 years, 9 months ago

guys who assualt their girl friends are not thugs, really?

Guys who continueously throw illegal elbows are not thugs? really?

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

........and you will be the first one sucking up for an autograph!

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 9 months ago

At this point there are 300 hits to this story of mischaracterization of Kief's play by the writer.

jayhawkintx73 11 years, 9 months ago

The sad thing is that the writer watched the game, and is trying to play liberal journalist here. <<< will not be rated the top in its class long with that sort of journalism happening.

P0WER 11 years, 9 months ago

I have finally come to my senses. I have taken off the crimson and blue glasses. No more blurred vision, no more drinking of the Kool-Aid. No more thinking I am better than everyone else just because I am a KU fan. It's just a game, not life or death.

I only have one question: Is this team too deep? Would we be better off with 7 guys that play as a unit with one common goal night in and night out instead of 12 guys all trying to get minutes whenever they can and no team chemistry? You be the judge.

KansasComet 11 years, 9 months ago

I am a KU fan and I enjoyed watching the game last night. The reason I enjoyed watching the game last night is because it was a learning experience. It was a tournament game last night. Kansas State had their season on the line last night. They played with passion and they really wanted to win the game and it showed. I was disappointed in our point guard play. Tyshawn Taylor is a good player, but he is a support player, not a leader. He also daydreams on the court and loses focus. I have only seen one game where he has taken over a leadership role and that was his Freshman Year against Oklahoma. Kansas needs to understand that this is how the tournament will be. I like Morningstar and Reed, but they are support players too! Selby on the other hand is a natural leader. He should run the point in my opinion. I say turn him loose and watch him make everyone better. The tournament will bring much more pressure. Last nights game was nothing. Morningstar played 35 minutes and shot the ball 4 times, scoring 6 points. That is not going to get it done. As I have said before when the pressure is great, he tends to defer to others. Reed played 31 minutes and was the only one attacking the goal. He only scored 14 points, but at least he tried. He is just limited in what he can do. The Morris Twins did not play much and Markieff has an intentional foul called. I still say, so what? As far a being called Thugs by some of the poster in this forum, they are not Thugs. I consider what the kid from Miss St. did in Hawaii, when he beat the crap out of one of his teammates in the stand Thuggish Behavior. A player from Kansas got decked the same way as Pullen did last night and no one is bringing that up? All will be fine fellow KU fans. This was a lesson learned. If you think this is rough wait until it is for keeps! I still feel Kansas is the best team in the Nation. Texas got beat down by USC, so no they are not better than the Jayhawks. Don't let the National Media fool you.

  1. Kansas
  2. Ohio State
  3. Texas
  4. Duke

squawkhawk 11 years, 9 months ago

The Morris twins are a cancerous growth on this team and will eventually cripple it like you saw last night. Mark my word, it will get worse before it gets better unless Self steps up and starts acting like the high paid coach he is suppose to be and not like a scared baby sitter.

KGphoto 11 years, 9 months ago

OMG! What will we do? We lost a game?

Guess what folks. You are spoiled. That's only the second loss of the season, and it happened against a team that was unconscious. Throw all the insults you want. Scream "The sky is falling". I don't care. I'm on for the the whole ride!

Go KU!

CasperCorps 11 years, 9 months ago

Regular season is over, no way Texas loses two more... We can now sit the twins and let Withey and Royce get some PT.. I have no problem with EJ, that was an awesome dunk and it should be his team to run.. Let him iron out his game for the rest of the reg season.. Selby can rest his foot and Reed too.. Whats it gonna hurt to let them heal up.. If we straighten up, we get to stomp Texas and Kstate in the big twelve tourney and that would lock us up for a decent seed in the Tourney.. We don't need a one seed, we've proven last year that it doesn't matter.. This team plays better flying under the radar...Does it make me less of a Kansas fan if I don't like twins? Have we had players like this before? It seems like this kind of stuff usually happens off the court with us ,not in front of the cameras.. Usually I don't like players cause they can't guard or I think someone else should be playing thats better then them, but these guys have some offensive skills, can't guard anyone, but have decent touch unless they are playing someone as tall as them then they are non existent. They act like their ticket is punched to the NBA and they don't care about much else.

Michael Potter 11 years, 9 months ago

It's kind of funny when I posted this same comment about how the twins are embarassing the team after the Missouri game, I was called all kinds of names. I guess a week changes a few minds. There is trouble in river city, and HCBS need to do more than address this. Maybe mom needs to let TRob grow a little bit and teach her sons how you act when you represent Kansas.

ancient_hawk 11 years, 9 months ago

I would highly recommend, for anyone who has access to it (on several times on FSN's family of channels) watching Coach Consonant's most recent weekly Duke BB show, where he discusses his thought process behind recovering from their beat-down @ St. Johns. Interesting paralells there.

I don't have any love for the guy (I mean, come on, he's the coach for the Dookies), but I have an enormous amount of respect for him as a coach, and especially as a developer of college talent.

wyansas 11 years, 9 months ago

I can't say anything that hasn't already been said, but I have to comment on this game. It was the worst performance of a KU mens basketball team I have ever seen. Just a nightmare from beginning to end. Did this game put anybody else in a bad mood for the rest of the night? A whole string of bad stuff happened to me after the game ended, and I got the maddest I've been in months.

Andrew Washington 11 years, 9 months ago

I think that sometimes we need less of this "SelfBall" and more of a superstar player that can really score like crazy. We SHOULD have "that guy" that we go to. Maybe if we had a better offensive system then we'd have gone to at least 3 final fours under coach self instead of just one (barely made it that time too). Alot of times SelfBall and the balanced scoring doesnt workout. Let the star players be star players and dont focus on letting everyplayer get that touch all the time. SelfBall might be good, but only if we could play it like Pitt-maybe they're playing something like bill self envisions for kansas?

David Howell 11 years, 9 months ago

"It was the worst performance of a KU mens basketball team I have ever seen. Just a nightmare from beginning to end ........" Nightmare yes, worst performance ever, NO, but definitely one of the most pathetic attempts at team ball I've ever seen at KU.

I am tired of everyone pretending there is no real problem and wanting to put a band-aid on the sores. We are out of band-aids and that was not a one game anomaly. It's time for HCBS to quit coddling the Twins and Taylor, etc. I think he's been on the edge all season about worrying about team chemistry. After the K-Suc game it is readily apparent we have none. Sure they banded together after TRob's mom died, but that didn't last long.

The problems of Monday night on primetime ESPN have been around game in and game out thru most of the season. We've just masked the problems and worked around them. Monday night they all came boiling to the top. The Jayhawks exposed their weaknesses and faults to the rest of the world. Self himself keeps saying we can't play defense to save our butts, but they continue to play man to man even as we are continually beat time and time again.

I don't care if we lose 3 of our last 5 games as long as they are tourney ready by Mid-March. Not just Big 12 tourney ready, but 64-68 team Big Dance ready. HCBS has to stand up to his squad and get them to play team ball instead of individual games. I have to believe he is smarter then any of us, but apparently he can't get them to buy into Self ball. Sit the Twins and Taylor and whoever doesn't get it. No one should be above the rest of the team.

spittage 11 years, 9 months ago

They don't act they are above the team.. they are team players

rock_chalk_jayhawk_in_nc 11 years, 9 months ago

The Twins are hard nosed emotional players who play with a chip on there shoulder, that is the kind of kid I want on my team. Winning isn't always pretty or nice. They are young and still learning to be men and you take the good with the bad and hope that they learn from each game. That they grow as men and those around hopefully inspire them to be good citizens. They may at times drive me nuts when they commit poor judgement fouls that hurt the team but in the end I would take a kid that goes hard and is ready to go to war than some soft piece of playdoh. The way some people have turned on them is disgraceful. You support your team, you support your jayhawk family, you accept the warts and all and push in a positive way to correct the issues and when the going gets down you look to the next game and learn from the one that passed but don't dwell on it. March madness is a crap shoot, six good games, lucky match ups, getting hot when it counts. More often than not the best team does not win but its always a good team that had a little luck and got on a roll that does. We are still that kinda team today, tomorrow and until someone beats us in March as we try to win six in a row.

David Howell 11 years, 9 months ago

The Twins are not young. They are juniors and think they are ready for the pros !

Quit coddling the Twins (they didn't just get off the boat from a 3rd world country). They know right from wrong, the rules, and what is expected of them. But time and time again they think they are above the team. I know we need them to win, but I and others are tired of their antics and at times extreme laziness.

We need them to play hard for the entire game, act like they care about making their free throws and most of all play smart. You only get five fouls so they really need to count instead of making it easy on the referees.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 9 months ago

Be careful Tom, Scatterhawk and Jacobpull191919191 or whatever, will be on here insulting your level of education and your ability to evaluate crappy basketball when you see it.

I'm gonna make a second account so I can start giving +1's to my posts.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 9 months ago

=) Tom Keegan can't evaluate good basketball when he sees it.

Gregor Southard 11 years, 9 months ago

One loss and now the Morris twins are an embarrassment to the program. The fans are the prima donnas. I can deal with a loss to an arch rival every other year. Take a deep breath guys. Also, I would like to hear the twins side of the story.

jayhawkintx73 11 years, 9 months ago

Wouldn't wanna be Colorado coming to AFH! Its nationally televised, and KU should have a chip on their shoulder after the way even this so called journalist treated this story. It would pay for a journalist to at least use some level of critical thinking, and this story has ZERO critical thinking. This was a gig to try create controversy, and nothing more than that.

Hawkamania 11 years, 9 months ago

The twins have been receiving attention from the refs ever since they got to Kansas. This is nothing new to me. Ever since they've been here they've been getting whistled for the littlest contact, more so then any other Kansas players I can remember in the past. The more and more they keep getting "chippy", the more its going to bite the team in the ace when it matters. They should know by now that the refs have it out for them but for some reason they don't. Are they that stubborn? They need to get their heads out of their as_es and stop putting themselves into situations where the ref can blow a whistle so easily. Not all the whistles are warranted but some of them are with the boneheaded decisions they've made throughout their Kansas careers.

dynamitehawk 11 years, 9 months ago

It's really simple:

We need the kind of intensity that K-State played with for the rest of our season. We need to play and have fun doing it. We need to say, "slap yo mama!" when we dunk on players, and not snarl at refs for bad calls. We need to focus on the dunk-to-gentle-nut-tap on the back of their heads, rather than trying to knock their heads behind the refs' backs.

The thing is that these guys need to lose their "tough neighborhood", "tough upbringing", "respect me because I'm from _" attitude. That was Sherron. And as much as I love Sherron, it takes away from the team. The '08 team got it. Let's hope these guys figure out how to have fun, smile, and beat the $hit out of teams grinning to net cutting time.

Slap yo mama.

pooflingingmonkey 11 years, 9 months ago

This is the worst team in the history of the program. These players are a blight on the KU name. Blah blah blah.

They're 24-2. Get a grip, people.

JayhawkMafiaFamily 11 years, 9 months ago

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the day Bernadette let Lew muscle Mangino out of town for being "too tough" is the same day our whole athletic dept got soft. It seems obvious to me that what we are lacking (in both football and basketball) is toughness. I mean we have a football coach who is more like a Sunday School teacher than a football coach and a basketball coach who is scared to cuss a kid out on the bench while the kid sits there running his mouth. I'm glad I watched the game in HD so I could see the split screen with Frank Martin and Bill Self. It was like night and day. Bill looked like he just gave up trying to coach, squeezing out awkward smiles finally followed by the desperate look of defeat. Meanwhile Frank Martin was in his players grill the whole game. Even when they were beating us by 20 he was still in their face and wouldn't let them back down for a minute. I would love to see more of that from HCBS. Not all the time and not with every player. I mean Frank has lost almost half his team this season for one reason or another but if when Markieff got called for the intentional foul on Pullen HCBS would have told him to shut up, park your ass on the bench then got T'd up himself for cussing out the ref I would have supported him 110%.

The Twins, Tyshawn, Selby, Little: they aren't thugs. They are inner city kids that have been brought to the Great Plains of Kansas to play college basketball. Now Jacob Pullen he's a thug, matter of fact he's a natural born killer cuz he single handedly murdered our whole squad on Monday night. Tyshawn=baller; twins=ballers; Selby=Balla! but in my opinion they are not being coached to maximize their strengths. TT should not be running the point. He is a slasher who needs to be driving the lane and creating his own shot. If he is going to get an assist it should be an insane alley oop pass to one of the twins or TRob. Otherwise let him get And1 mixtape on fools and take them to the hoop. Same for the twins. Dem boys good! Let them go hard in the paint, spot up for threes and get nasty with the mid range game. On defense play zone and keep them out of foul trouble. Selby, well it's just a matter of time before he blows up in a major way but not unless he is given the green light to score at will. Reed is the obvious team leader. He grinds it out and hustles hard night in and night out. Morningstar is a role player that has finally found his stroke and is making it rain from all over the court. TRob, one word: Monster! With support players like Little, Releford and EJ we shouldn't just be ballin we should be Bill Gatin!!

I could be way off here but I'm willing to bet if HCBS didn't feel like he had to appear like Mr. Niceguy all the time and if some of our players were given the freedom to play the way they know how we would be the best team in the country by far and dare I say #1 and undefeated.

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