Tuesday, December 13, 2011

Self: Weis has a commanding presence


Kansas coach Bill Self said he was finally able to talk at length with new football coach Charlie Weis on Sunday morning.

Both were at The Oread hotel in Lawrence, having breakfast with recruits.

“One thing I was very impressed (with): He was holding court, which I thought was great,” Self said Monday on his Hawk Talk radio show. “So he came in, and we visited for a long time. I can understand why fans would be excited.”

Self said Weis reminded him of Eddie Sutton when the hall-of-fame coach took the job at Oklahoma State in 1990. At the time, Self was an assistant on the OSU staff.

“It was amazing to me that coach Sutton carried himself in a way where there was an air of confidence and a presence — just a natural presence,” Self said. “It’s amazing to me how much that rubs off on your players. And I saw it rub off on those kids, that we went from average to winning the league in our first year.”

Self said Weis could potentially offer the same sort of benefit for KU’s football team.

“I think he brings an air of confidence that’ll be passed through his players and through his coaches that will be very positive for our guys,” Self said. “And I’m not in any way putting down Turner (Gill) at all, because it’s just different. It’s just a different deal. Coaches have different perspectives in how they do things, and I think Charlie’s perspective will be a little different from the way Turner did it, which was different than the way Mark (Mangino) did it.”

Self came away with the impression that Weis seemed “very, very, very excited to be here.”

“Certainly, he gives us a presence — somebody that brings name recognition with him,” Self said. “His résumé, I’ve studied it, it’s really impressive. You talk about being in five Super Bowls and won four and called plays in three or four of them and who he’s tutored ... There’s some impressive things with that.”

Weis led Notre Dame to a 35-27 record over five seasons from 2005-09. He was fired after the Fighting Irish went 6-6 in 2009.

“He seems hungry, and certainly, this is an opportunity for him to get some negatives out of his system,” Self said. “Which, to me, those are the most dangerous type of people — (the ones) that got something to prove, which I think is really good.

“I certainly commend our administration on this one for sure.”

Robinson wins Big 12 player of the week honor

Kansas forward Thomas Robinson won Big 12 player of the week honors, the conference announced Monday.

The 6-foot-10 junior averaged 23.5 points and nine rebounds during KU’s wins over Long Beach State and No. 2 Ohio State last week.

“For me to receive player of the week, I’m very thankful of that,” Robinson said, “and like I said, I don’t expect it to be my last one.”

Robinson, a Washington, D.C. native, scored a career-high 26 points against on Tuesday against Long Beach State to go with 11 rebounds.

Against OSU, Robinson scored 10 of KU’s final 12 points in a 21-point effort.

“He was really good against Long Beach State and did some good things. And against Ohio State, he did some great things,” Self said. “He’s gotten to the point where he’s trusting his shot more, but yet, against Ohio State, he made two of the best five post moves he’s probably made since he’s been here on campus.”

Last week, Robinson made 17 of 23 shots (74 percent) and 13 of his 18 free throws (72 percent).

More on Ohio State victory

Self was asked Monday morning during the Big 12 media teleconference if he had learned anything about his team following its 78-67 victory over Ohio State.

“I probably have a greater appreciation or respect for certain things,” Self said. “Kevin Young is a kid, I’ve been on his butt pretty good, wanting him to be more of an aggressive contributor on both ends. And I know now he can do it, without question. He can do it, which definitely adds to our depth element.

“I’ve never questioned Tyshawn (Taylor)’s toughness, but now, nobody can. ... And Elijah (Johnson), we know he can shoot the ball, but now, that should be a big confidence thing for him, going 5-of-7 from deep against Ohio State. And I do think that we guard pretty well defensively as a unit.”

Kansas in the polls

Following its win over Ohio State, KU moved up one spot to No. 12 in both the AP and ESPN/USA Today Coaches polls Monday.

The Buckeyes remained at No. 2 in both rankings.


KU_Alumn_2000 11 years, 1 month ago

Can't wait to see some of the recruits HCCW brings in.

We need a big time defensive coordinator too. Just let HCCW run the offense...we don't need a coordinator on the offense.

Glad to hear that chances are David Beaty is staying.

hawk316 11 years, 1 month ago

Yeah...same with Wyatt possibly staying. And, of course, Mitchell is definitely staying. Just goes to show you that Turner Gill did, in fact, hire an excellent staff. It would have been interesting to see what they could have accomplished if given sufficient time. But now it's time to move forward. I'm excited about Weis and about the future of KU football.

Funhawk 11 years, 1 month ago

Premonition: big blue jersey with a white zero, being unfurled from the rafters. Add to it another team banner. These fun guys this year really want to please the fans. - every one of them. .........wouldn't it be fun to play Kentucky again at the end of the year.

nuleafjhawk 11 years, 1 month ago

And Duke. And Ohio State (with Sullinger, so the OSU fans can't cry about that)

Curtis Stutz 11 years, 1 month ago

KU doesn't need to play all those games to prove anything!

nuleafjhawk 11 years, 1 month ago

They don't NEED to, but I would LIKE to beat those teams

gardenjay 11 years, 1 month ago

We moved up one spot, what a rip. I predict with KU success this will become a disproportionately low move up the ladder as the season goes along, and the sports writers who wear plaid socks will be forced to leap us above some of their precious east-coast gimmes.

PJ Karasek 11 years, 1 month ago

to be fair, after each of our losses we only dropped a spot or two. Like manginorh00lz said, polls don't mean a whole lot @ this point, I hope it just makes our guys hungrier.

Dillweed 11 years, 1 month ago

When we played No. 2 Duke we had the lead with a minute and a half left and lost due to some clutch shooting and travel no calls. We still dropped in the rankings. The way the system works, you get penalized for playing good teams.

Having said that - it's kind of nice to be off the radar charts and just keep sneaking up.

Steve Gantz 11 years, 1 month ago

If your theory is true, then why have we been ranked #1 so many times in the last 30 years?

gardenjay 11 years, 1 month ago

...and even so, never get a cushy bracket?

Steve Gantz 11 years, 1 month ago

I remember one year, two years ago where we all thought we got robbed. Then we go out and lose to N. Iowa. Last year there was no one in our bracket that scared me that much.

Curtis Stutz 11 years, 1 month ago

I like KU's spot in the polls, keeps us hungry, obviously we'll move up if we get it done and especially against Misery and Baylor. Underdogs going into Big12 play, how'd that work out last time! Of course both MU and BU have some tests coming soon. I don't really see anyone ahead of us we can gripe about, but Indiana behind us should probably crack the top ten with an undefeated record and a win over UK.

rockchalkchalkin23 11 years, 1 month ago

Coach Self

I have two wishes for christmas and you are the guy who can grant them. It looks like you may grant this wish already but i'll state it anyway.

  1. Stop being so hard on Kev and play him more. Basketball is a game of energy and vision. He has plenty of both. In my opinion, we don't lost to duke if he plays. I like him coming off the bench. He provides a spark, which is a major piece to a great team. Sherron Collins 2007-2008 for example. I remember one of Bud Stallworth's keys to beating the Jayhawks was "hope Sherron Collins is injured." Hilarious, but true.

  2. Put EJ at the point. a. His assist/turnover ratio. b. He has the patience and vision to speed up or slow down the offense when necessary. In my opinion, he plays better when he controls the ball. c. He is a better on ball defender. He knows what the effect of disrupting their pg does to their team. d. He is a great passer. He's better at setting up and throwing oops than Ty. e. You could bring back the subtle pass from the top, then a straight cut to the basket for the oop. f. You wanted the ball in EJ's hands when Ty was rushing it late in the OSU game. If it was better then, I believe it's better overall. Did you happen to hear Jay Bilas say we were rushed?

Someone recently responded to a post of mine that Ty should be the 1 because he has better "ballhandling chops." I think Ty is great at penetrating the paint. He should be using his "ballhandling chops" to chop up the defense with his quick first step, overall speed, and his ability to draw fouls. With his ft and 3pt shooting this year, and his scoring ability period, I think he is most effective at the 2. Ty's strongest asset is scoring. EJ's is passing.

EJ on the point this year would also be a head start for next year. Two positives, one decision.

Joe Baker 11 years, 1 month ago

You make a good point about EJ. The one thing I really like is the fact that EJ takes lobs and he knows better where to place a lob for the receiver, ie. TRob, WIthey or Wesley. TT has thrown a few but you may be right that EJ may be a more complete pg than TT.

I do think you base it on the ratio. Let's see what Tharpe does over the next few games.

Welcome to Coach Weiss and Self does add some perspective to the selection. I didn't quite make those connections.

I'm excited to be a Jayhawk.

rockchalkchalkin23 11 years, 1 month ago

Several points as to why, and I based it solely on A/T ratio?

Patrickulating 11 years, 1 month ago

It is great that you posted this here because I know for a fact that Bill Self scours this board looking for coaching advice.

chriz 11 years, 1 month ago

Dude, relax, he's just bringing it up for discussion.

chriz 11 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, I was actually responding to Patrickulating. Maybe he was joking...I've just had a lot of experience with the "don't ever criticize Self" group. Of COURSE I think Self's a great coach! But I don't think he's perfect! And I KNOW he is a better coach than I am! People...

MDHawk 11 years, 1 month ago

I agree with just about everything you mentioned...though, it seems that Tyshawn has more experience working the high-low and making that entry pass. Both of them have thrown the ball away trying to do so this year, so which guy is better right now is difficult to say. We should have more time to work on those passes in the next few games, which should give Elijah a chance to really nail it down. I look forward to seeing some guys develop while Tyshawn heals up.

rockchalkchalkin23 11 years, 1 month ago

Please excuse my error..... we don't lost should be we don't lose

fansincewilt 11 years, 1 month ago

On the surface it may look like a good idea. I don't think, though, that Coach Self has in mind to make Johnson his point guard even next year. A point guard has to see the court and the play developing. Taylor has that ability. If he can cut down on the turnovers, he becomes one of the top point guards in college basketball. This year we are only going to be as good as Taylor can take us and that, in my opinion, could be very, very good. Our greatest handicap is the strength of our bench. Things are looking better in that area as well. On another note, how is Thomas Robinson not our top player against OSU? Kevin Young was good but TRob was the best man on the court.

Joe Baker 11 years, 1 month ago

fans you make a good point about TT and I do agree to a degree. EJ does have a tendency to be a bit too cautious at times but that could hurt and help at times during games. I wouldn't go so far as to say that TT "has that ability." They'll both be fine and Self will do the right thing. I wouldn't go so far as to say that EJ won't be the pg. I think Tharpe is the man for the pg position next year. I think he'll develop to become our pg for the next three years. If EJ keeps making OSU type contributions, he'll be gone with TT, TRob and maybe Withey.

We could potentially lose Withey and EJ to the NBA. It's too early and their decision if they make that decision. Heck we could even lose Rel if his initiative to the rim and shot improves to NBA type performances this year. They're all defense first and they're all invested in Self's program and defensive mindset.

rockchalkchalkin23 11 years, 1 month ago

I respect your comment. Just curious as to what point "fans" made about Ty?

rockchalkchalkin23 11 years, 1 month ago

Are you serious? Seeing the court and letting play develop is a factor as to why EJ should be the point. You counter that Taylor does these? No, Taylor does not. He can't cut down on turnovers because he is not comfortable running the point. Near blowout against Kentucky, 11 turnovers vs duke. I like Ty, just not at the point. That won't take us very far in the tournament. Do you Tyshawn "lovers" realize that Ty came in with more minutes than the whole team combined. He should be our most solid player. But he is not. You "lovers" think he should be our point guard? Why? Does he let plays develop? Does he make the wise point guard decisions? Does he handle pressure well at all? I thought it was clear how Ty handles pressure. Did anyone see how EJ crouches and shakes off the pressure? Please make a real rebuttal, not, "coach knows what he's doing" or "Ty will take us as far as we can go." Does that worry any other fans who understand the game, maybe have played it? My strongest point at the moment as to why Ty is not best for our team at point guard is the stupid runner in the lane against OSU with 40 seconds left, up 7 points. There was 19 seconds remaining on the shot clock. He missed the eight foot runner floater. Craft comes down and pops a 3 with 36 seconds remaining and luckily misses. But think about the situation if Craft makes the 3 and how OSU was not even in the game anymore until Ty made that play. Ty consistently makes these kind of plays and that's why we can't keep or build on a 10 point lead. Bobby Knight mentioned how we weren't doing anything with our 10 point spread. I counted 23 negative momentum plays by Ty vs OSU.

DevilHawk 11 years, 1 month ago

We knew that TRob could have a game like that. It also helped that EJ was 5-7 from beyond the arc.

However, that was the most minutes that Young has played all season, and it was his best game. On top of that, he was 2-3 from beyond the arc and he picked up two momentum shifting charges.

The emphasis is on defense and making smart plays - and that's exactly he did.

Clarkeee22 11 years, 1 month ago

I think Self knows what he is doing. He sees more in everyday practice than we do. EJ needs to be at the 2 with the way he can catch and shoot the three ball. we can bring the ball up by committee but as far as our primary point guard, when healthy will be and should be Ty. This team will go as far as Ty will take us.

kuproud96 11 years, 1 month ago

I agree that EJ should run the point. TT has clearly demonstrated that he is unable to concentrate comensurate with the demands of the point guard position. Also just curious as to why the coaches are prefaced with HC, is that not implied? Seems redundant, seeing as we use abreviations for efficency. Why dont we use it for the players? PFTR or SGCT or QBJW just wondering aloud?

DDDHawk 11 years, 1 month ago

I have always assumed that people are using HC as a way of showing him respect, instead of just saying "Self."

Kye Clark 11 years, 1 month ago

I agree I think it's a respect thing. Remember when Bobby Knight flew off the handle at some student at Indiana that saw him on campus and said "What's up Knight?" LOL

railer20 11 years, 1 month ago

@jhwksrock's picture..."Dude fix your face"

Michael Auchard 11 years, 1 month ago

"Wear it in silence, or I'll honor you again."

Martin Rosenblum 11 years, 1 month ago

Bill and Charlie, just a couple of guy's guys sitting around eating breakfast. Doesn't this just somehow feel better?

Charlie won't even see a player in a uniform for months. But, his presence has already made the program better. Bill, on the other hand, is slugging away in what is suppoosed to be a "rebuilding" year moving up in the polls.

.......Jayhawk Pride abounds!

Ron Franklin 11 years, 1 month ago

Look at Bill Self using Coach Weis as a a recruiting tool. he sits at the table at Mr. Oread he gestures to his 5 star recruit--"And over there is Coach Weis with 4 superbowl rings on his right hand." :)

Ron Franklin 11 years, 1 month ago

I didn't think it would take coach Self this long to realize that Kevin Young is a match-up advantage nightmare for opposing teams. He reminds me a lot of Tyler Honeycutt from UCLA. If he can prove to shoot 40%+ from Trey he is going to be dangerous. He seems to have very soft hands and can read the ball off of the rim very well also. He sees the open spaces around the rim and knows now to cut through them and attack them rim.

If Ty is out this week, I'd like to see
1. EJ 2. TReleford 3. Young 4. TRob 5. Withey

Rock Chalk!

Scott Oswalt 11 years, 1 month ago

I totally agree with the Honeycutt comparison. I think Tharpe should start, to give him some confidence.

Ron Franklin 11 years, 1 month ago

I didn't think it would take coach Self this long to realize that Kevin Young is a match-up advantage nightmare for opposing teams. He reminds me a lot of Tyler Honeycutt from UCLA. If he can prove to shoot 40%+ from Trey he is going to be dangerous. He seems to have very soft hands and can read the ball off of the rim very well also. He sees the open spaces around the rim and knows now to cut through them and attack them rim.

If Ty is out this week, I'd like to see
1. EJ 2. TReleford 3. Young 4. TRob 5. Withey

Rock Chalk!

Marcia Parsons 11 years, 1 month ago

According to Self, Young hadn't demonstrated any of these things at practice. I think he was as excited as everyone else about Young's "breakout" game. He had apparently been waiting for a sign of some aggressiveness and some defense.

Dillweed 11 years, 1 month ago

Agree Self made those commnets but the players said otherwise and that they weren't supprized in the least. Self's comments always seem to have some sort of motivating force behind them so who knows.

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago


Self was completely left out. No apparent normal consensus building.

Is Self now just another coach in the emerging regime of Zenger?

Money never sleeps

Power never keeps.

Watch out Bill.

Once upon a time, there was a king served on the one hand by a devious Cardinal Richelieu of divided loyalties and on the other by an unquestionably loyal band of musketeers commanded by the brilliant Monsieur de Treville. He knew the king to be good, but also sometimes too easily flattered and deceived by the Cardinal. His band of musketeers saved the king many times, but always the king fell prey again to the Cardinal's intrigues. The moral to the story was always the same. The king must always be saved from him self by brave men of undivided loyalties serving the greater good, or the tendency to intrigue of those like the Cardinal serving two masters will undo the kingdom.

Rock Chalk

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago

Universities are just a wee bit political, or haven't u heard? :-)

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago

In a slow economy, every organization has to go where the money is. KU's annual budget exceeds $1Billion.

Every long term player in society in this shrinking economy has to at least try to grab a cut of KU's cash flows some how.

All the long term players, especially the tax exempts, resort to the government teat at times like this.

Just sayin'. :-)

Marcia Parsons 11 years, 1 month ago

Self was completely left out. No apparent normal consensus building.

Is Self now just another coach in the emerging regime of Zenger?

Come on, jaybate. Why are you pushing conspiracy theories? Why would a football guy like Zenger expect a basketball man like Self to consult on the selection of a football coach? All Self wants is a good to great coach to bring the football team up to the point where it will begin to help bring money into the Athletic Department. All Weis wants is a chance to do that. I hate to see anyone try to create a controversy where there isn't one. Both have enough competition to worry about without you imagining that they are competing with each other.

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago

Define a conspiracy theory that doesn't include most normal committee activity in most corporations, governments and NGOs.

We' got to liberate people from the idiotic propaganda that conspiracy is rare, or even abnormal. Conspiracy is normal. It is always a part of group activity, especially committee and bureaucratic processes.

The question is never are their conspiracies. The question is are they illegal, or legal, in the interest of the common good, or a means to asymmetric benefit?

A day without conspiracy would be the first day of its kind in human history.

Nothing I am analyzing contemplates or anticipates any illegal conspiracy, like say Scalpinggate.

This is just politics and strategy of competing subgroups vying for a shot at the KU trough.

My only concern potential negative impacts on KU hoops of KUAD being further Balkanized into football and basketball camps when the AD appears to be a football guy.

I would prefer a basketball guy as AD. Period.

The football guys are money hogs. Imagine what Self could have done with that extra $6M thrown away for Gill, or the extra $500K/yr shoveled to Chollie.

And we know very few football programs breakeven. And even fewer ever become sustainable winners.

So: KU is literally squandering a bird in the hand for two in the bush, at a time when Self needs all the resources he can muster in the way of basketball infrastructure and recruiting infrastructure for a football coach that couldn't get it done at ND and the grease of new stadium contracts, and attracting ND to the B12.

Another dumb football move by KU leadership.

Very dumb.

hawksince51 11 years, 1 month ago

What did the coaches order? Ham and eggs for Bill, fruit plate for Charlie?

kupride4u 11 years, 1 month ago

“He seems hungry, and certainly, this is an opportunity for him to get some negatives out of his system,”

That made me laugh, and throw up a little in my mouth, all at the same time!

Dillweed 11 years, 1 month ago

I had to bite my hand to hold back a comment on that one!

tom123kufan 11 years, 1 month ago

Over the past 20 years it has been proven over and over that in any sport dramatic change can occur, but will only happen with great coaches, great assistant coaches and some good talent, which is a direct reflection of the coaching staff bringing in the right kids. I feel that KU finally has a system that puts them in a good position to build and grow as an athletic department with a top notch basketball program and a very competitive football program which in time hopefully will end up being a top notch football program. It all starts at the top, we have that now I think. I can't wait to see how the cards fall! Rock Chalk!

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago

Self gets it. Self knows he is on the outside. He is putting a good spin on things, but notice that he is setting up expectations for Chollie. I love it!

Chollie is going to lose a bunch of Gill's players, start way behind in recruiting, and Self is setting up expectations of big improvement. H

Heck, Chollie, if Coach Sutton came in and turned OSU hoops around and won the conference, you ought to be able to do the same here with football.

If Zenger doesn't start kissing Self's a$$ quick, Self is going to be dialing Boone Pickens, the Spurs and the Thunder and saying who wants me?

Zenger is really really about to screw things up royally.

Fire Zenger now.

Before Self goes to Stillwater just to regularly beat the shizz out of KU.

Wake up and smell the coffee, people.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 1 month ago

During a recent interview, Self extolled on the virtues of filling Memorial Stadium to capacity and it generating revenues faster than KU could ever at AFH. The aggregate receipts can generate a revenue stream that would make everyone happy (if reinvested properly), particularly the BBall program by knowing that a large percentage of AFH proceeds could be used to support Self and allows continued success!

okiedave 11 years, 1 month ago

I cannot share your pessimism regarding university politics. Zemger's job is to make all programs successful. I see nothing evil or sinister in Self supporting Weis and nothing sinisterl in Weis supporting Self. Self simply has nothing to gain or lose by Weis being successful or failing. In regard to Self leaving, it will never happen voluntarily. Self knows that taking a position at OSU is a demotion, regardless of how much money he makes there. OSU simply does not have the same electricity for basketball as KU. He knows at KU he will always have a shot at a national championship just about every year regardless of what is going on in the football program. At OSU he knows he will almost never have a shot at a national championship or a Big XII title and will struggle every year to be competitive. KU basketball means Self will be a successful coach for life in a dream job. Larry Brown has probably schooled Self that the money in Pro Ball is subject to the laws of diminishing returns and sticking with something special and a consistent winner is worth a life time of satisfaciton.

rockchalkchalkin23 11 years, 1 month ago

If Sutton can take them to a final 4, Self would have no problem with success. Another recruiting weapon to add to his arsenal would be that it's next to Texas as opposed to on the other side of Oklahoma. His career says he would be successful and the 7 straight titles in the Big 12 are a big part of that. He wouldn't have to learn a new league and so on.

Ludwig Supraphonic 11 years, 1 month ago

Riveting conspiracy theory. Is Mel Gibson available for the Jaybate role?

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago

Let me see if can try to do what you do?

Hornhawk role neo-Nazi anti-semite conspiracy nut? Hornhawk role neo-Nazi? anti-semite conspiracy nut? Hornhawk role neo-Nazi anti-semite conspiracy nut? Hornhawk role neo-Nazi anti-semite conspiracy nut?

Hey, this is pretty fun. Thanks for teaching me how you iSmear.

But can't you just discuss things reasonably instead of iSmearing?


bad_dog 11 years, 1 month ago

"If Zenger doesn't start kissing Self's a$$ quick, Self is going to be dialing Boone Pickens, the Spurs and the Thunder and saying who wants me?"

Because as we all know, they haven't invested any money in facilities or coaching staff at OSU, their football program isn't competitive at a league or national level, etc., etc.

Jaybate it sounds like the next thing you should do is have a press conference in your driveway to announce how Zenger held you in the palm of his hand and crushed you like a dove ;-)

The two sports can co-exist and thrive. Ask Florida or Ohio State. Jayhawk fans are hungry for and deserve winners in both major sports. We need success in both areas of the athletics department to ensure we remain a viable choice for super conference selection.

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago


First: Fire Zenger.

Second: No they cannot coexist for long and here is why

Contrary to popular opinion, and last I heard, football is a deficit financed sport at most universities. It continually requires more and more subsidy to break even. Case in point: football is losing money hand over fist at KU and then it had to go divert $6 Million of unspecified money away from KU basketball and minor sports to fire a flipping coach it should have retained. The longer KU invests preferentially in football, the more it erodes KU's advantage in basketball.

Third: your example of Ohio State is a hilarious goof on yourself. Ohio State sucks in football now and is riddled with corruption in football and is going through yet another coaching change and is no doubt diverting massive moneys from its other sports to cover all of the legal coasts and all of the lost revenues from going down in the muck it has gone down in.

You don't need any more than a lousy to mediocre football team to be admitted into any major conference in the country. The BIg Ten and SEC and Pac Ten and Big 12 are rife with hopeless losers in football.

Disconnect your brain from the propaganda and start using it.

The super conferences need cupcakes like KU for their big teams to fatten up on.

We are threatening basketball for nothing.

And come clique of guys that want to plug construction loans on a new statdium, or stadium expansion, are the only ones that are going to benefit from this?

If what I am saying were incorrect, then BGL and Zenger would have hired a top candidate instead of the retread flop from ND that they got.

Football is a boon doggle.

Football requires massive subsidy over and above what it brings in.

bad_dog 11 years, 1 month ago

First, KU football is not exactly the prime example to utilize as your "case in point" for financial success at a football program. Second, to my understanding, the money to pay off Gill came from boosters, not KU Athletics per se, so it wasn't diverted away from funds in hand. In addition, these funds likely would never have been given to subsidize the "minor sports" as you characterize them. Third, IMHO you lose all credibility in this discussion when you state Gill should have been retained-unless it is your sole intent to keep KU football as the subservient little stepchild in KU Athletics and the Big 12.

Seriously, the revenue drain you attribute to KU football would have been even worse had Gill been retained. Blame Lew Perkins, not Sheahon Zenger for giving an unproven coach a 5 year guaranteed contract sans incentives. What would you project for football season ticket sales next year with Gill at the helm? What about corporate sponsorships? KU is not going to terminate the football program, so it needs to be at least competitive if not moderately successful to minimize the drain and hopefully turn it into a profit center. On a local scale and perhaps more financially comparable example, hasn't K-State enjoyed decent success in both programs of late? I haven't heard K-State fans, coaches, players, alumnus or administrators complaining that Coach Snyder will leave if the basketball program becomes more dominant. Even Mizzery appears to be on the brink of success in both programs.

As for whether Ohio State is a shining example or not, I merely utilized them as illustrative of a university where both programs have enjoyed success, not as some paragon of virtue. What about Florida? Texas?

Your opinions aside, I see no evidence KU basketball is threatened by the possibility of football success. Whether football success is the touchstone to super conference desirability remains to be seen but dismal, non-competitive programs don't add to a school's allure. Nevertheless, as stated above, I believe KU fans want and deserve competitve and successful teams in both sports. I can't speak for the rest of Jayhawk nation, but you can be a "cupcake" for the conference if you want. I don't want that role, and I don't believe the players, faculty or students want it either.

We get it. You don't really care about KU football and don't particularly like Weis. You've pontificated on the topic on numerous occasions since his hiring was announced. Just stick to saying so and don't try to disguise your disdain for him with rants about the threat to KU basketball or dissertations regarding pilgrimages to Notre Dame to visit a priest. The boosters funding the buy-out of Gill spoke with their wallets; loudly and voluminously. I'm certain if they feel as threatened about basketball as you apparently do, they'll step up again. I love KU basketball the best, but I love football too and I want it to have the chance to succeed.

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago

First, Fire Zenger.


Me thinks you dost pontificate too much.

I just methodically blew everyone of your arguments out of the water.

Your response was not to be a man about it and admit it.

So I am not going to waste my time ripping your response apart, as could easily be done.

Let's just say: Fire Zenger.

bad_dog 11 years, 1 month ago

"I just methodically blew everyone of your arguments out of the water.

Translation: I don't have anything to refute your statements.

"So I am not going to waste my time ripping your response apart, as could easily be done."

Translation: I don't have the ethical integrity to acknowledge I'm wrong and attempting to address your position would be more mere gum flapping on my part"

Mike Kendall 11 years, 1 month ago

Love this article, Jesse! Funny--when Bill speaks, people listen. Now, we can say this same thing about our new football coach, Charlie Weis.

tom123kufan 11 years, 1 month ago

Naw Self is here to stay. He knows he is the foundation of the athletic department, success from the football team is not going to ever change that. I really doubt that he lays awake at night wondering which department he is going to overshadow next. Too classy of a guy. Too smart of a guy. Self gets it.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 1 month ago

  1. On Weis -- Let's be clear, here .. there is only one "Boss" .. only one guy with the ring that counts .. only one top dog .. Coach Self. If Zenger or any other KU adminstrator feels otherwise, then they aren't going to be in their job too long.
  2. BlownJay - I wish KY was Tyler Honeycutt. Brady is still having nightmares. I would expect Teahan to start, but KY getting 25 minutes is just as good as a start. Actually, I'd start Teahan vs. Davidson, play Tharpe 20 minutes, and if Tharpe is serviceable, then I'd start him the next game (assuming TT is still out).
  3. Saw the comment above from Clarkee22 about EJ better at the two for spotting up for the three. I generally agree, but EJ is very effective on the top of the key three. I think he'd get just as many looks from the point. Unless Tharpe's in there, EJ will have to run the point .. we have no one else.
  4. From the don't be surprised category .. don't be surprised if Wesley comes off the bench Monday before KY. Not saying it will happen, but don't be surprised.
  5. Second installment from the don't be surprised category .. don't be surprised if KY only plays 10 minutes vs Davidson. Self is a stubborn guy, and may not change quite as quickly based on this past game's performance.
  6. Third installment from the don't be surprised category .. don't be surprised if Tharpe plays surprisingly well on the offensive end, once he actually gets another chance. Meaning, a 2-1 assist to turnover ratio (unheard of in these parts) and reasonable scoring. Of course, most here will be watching the defense, as we know that will be a huge factor in Self's future playing time decisions.
  7. Final installment from the don't be surprised category .. don't be surprised if we lose Monday vs. Davidson. I'm not bold enough to predict it. But this is a perfect storm .. TT out, coming off of a big win, away from home (Sprint Center), coming off of a 9 day lay-off, and vs. the dreaded mid-major. Davidson played a great game vs. Vanderbilt, lost by 13 at Duke, but was leading at halftime. We'll see how we react.

Ben Simonett 11 years, 1 month ago

Wasn't Self just as "excited" about Mangino and Gill?

I don't know why LJW bothers to print these stories, he has to back up his AD and University, you could hire my high school JV football coach and Self would say it was a good move.

He's never going to be honest with the media on these situations.

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, but he did not put big expectations on them by relating them to Coach Sutton coming in and winning a title his first season.

Self is sticking it to Chollie big time.

This would be hilarious to watch, except that it signals Self knows he is very likely going to have to exit to escape the football jihad that has occurred and that will take KUAD down the rat hole.

Kansashawk 11 years, 1 month ago

have u been drinking from that crucible again? Where do you get this stuff? Lay off the pipe bro

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago

Fire Cardinal Zengerlieu.

Fire Cardinal Zengerelieu.

One for all and all for one Basketeers!!!!

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago

Trying to learn your iSmear style.

Kansashawk crucible bong rip narcotrafficer Kansashawk crucible bong rip narcotrafficer Kansashawk crucible bong rip narcotrafficer Kansashawk crucible bong rip narcotrafficer Kansashawk crucible bong rip narcotrafficer Kansashawk crucible bong rip narcotrafficer Kansashawk crucible bong rip narcotrafficer Kansashawk crucible bong rip narcotrafficer

Is that the way I am supposed to do it?

Curtis Stutz 11 years, 1 month ago

As far as rockchalkchalkin23 pts above about who should run the point I think EJ is less prone to a quick turnover, so coming out of an inbounds I would like the ball going to EJ. Also I like TT's ability to make plays if he's getting the ball off a screen with any kind of advantage rather than having to force it against his man one on one straight up. In transition though you just go to whoever is ready to push.

Tharpe will get a chance to run the offense against Davidson, probably from off the bench, but it makes no difference. EJ will also gain confidence if he starts at PG w/o TT and does a good job of it.

Young had a great game, it was one game, yes he needs more opportunities but it doesn't matter if you start him or Teahan in the next one, one of those two plus Tharpe plus Wesley off the bench gives us a full rotation with everyone one of the 8 players getting 15+ minutes.

You know what's great about TT, we know he can miss a game or two and come right back in and do his thing. Let's not forget how wonderful it is to have a guy with 4 yrs of starting experience.

Also with all the talk about Tharpe and Young, this is a great chance for Releford to show what he can do. His defense has been amazing, if he can be more consistent on offense he's got the potential to be a force driving the ball and knocking down jumpers.

If KU gets offensive production from 3 or more guys each night it results in another Big12 title. If we end up with games where other people are off and it's just TT and TRob making things happen on offense KU is incredibly vulnerable.

Gregor Southard 11 years, 1 month ago

Like how Self called KU football players "our guys."

Martin Shupert 11 years, 1 month ago

Self's words: "Weis looks hungry." Come on, Bill. Those were poorly chosen words. Charlie doesn't miss many meals.

squawkhawk 11 years, 1 month ago

Was just going to comment on this too. Poor choice of words. I guess the students will have to break out their old Mangino t-shirts.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 1 month ago

In advance, I just want to laugh at every Weis weight joke. Way too funny. I mean, man, what's more funny than a fat guy. I mean every day. Every time there is food around, joke about his weight, how much he will eat, if he's "hungry", etc. It's too funny. How can you not joke about it ... I mean every time. Geez, our coach can eat yours. Best ever. And every time Weis is brought up, let's add a fat a** joke. Or a cute play on words. It just adds to the discussion. I love the chuckle. Wish I had a belly that would giggle like Weis ... oops, now I did it. Hope Weis brings us the gift of some wins .. he certainly looks like Santa Claus, just needs a beard .. darn, did it again. If we want to keep Weis happy this holiday season, just leave a plate of cookies and a big glass of milk. I bet that's in his contract. Stop it. I hear Weis is expecting some wins .. and some twins. When's the due date? Ugh. I can't stop. I heard Weis favors Nike over Adidas and that could have been a hangup, but the last time he saw his shoes was like 1987, so he didn't make it an issue? It's a disease, I must tell fat jokes. Must tell fat jokes. I understand Weis loves to have three donuts, bacon, and a stack of pancakes ... then he likes to go to breakfast. This is really unreal. Weis is overweight and it is just funny any way you slice it .. especially if that slice is a pizza with the works. I need therapy, but funny is funny, right? I hear Weis said he plans to vacation at the Royal Gorge .. bet he thinks it's a buffet fit for a king. Why is this funny? I don't know. It just is. Did I tell you that Weis "looks hungry?" And because he's a fat dude, Self must regret saying it that way, or that it was a hilarious play on words? Way, way freaking funny.

I can't believe I'm tired of fat jokes, but I am.

Give me big boy Mangino over in shape Gill, any day.

But if Mangino was over anything, it'd be like a lunar eclipse ..... I can't stop.

jaybate 11 years, 1 month ago

Weis is so fat that when he sits around the stadium...

He sits a-r-o-u-n-d the stadium!


okiedave 11 years, 1 month ago

Where has Jaybate gone? Looking for Jaybate? Wondering who is impersonating Jaybate on these football posts? Did Jaybate sell his "jaybate" posting rights to a K-state fan?

Joseph Kuebel 11 years, 1 month ago

Ya, you big meanie fatist! Lollllllllllllllllll. I think we've heard worse on msg boards.

Martin Shupert 11 years, 1 month ago

That's true, jhwksrock... I forgot... we're in church. We'll let K-State fans talk about his outrageously obese body. Can we mention the snot that he wipes off his nose with his sleeve every time the camera is on him?

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