Kansas defeats UCLA, 77-76

  • 8 p.m., Dec. 2, 2010
  • Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, KS

Friday, December 3, 2010

Little’s free throw helps KU escape

Kansas forward Mario Little and the Jayhawks' bench look for a foul after a last-second attempt by Little for a shot against UCLA during the second half, Thursday, Dec. 2, 2010 at Allen Fieldhouse. A foul was called on UCLA guard Malcolm Lee sending Little to the line in which he hit the game-winning free throw to grab a 77-76 win.

Kansas forward Mario Little and the Jayhawks' bench look for a foul after a last-second attempt by Little for a shot against UCLA during the second half, Thursday, Dec. 2, 2010 at Allen Fieldhouse. A foul was called on UCLA guard Malcolm Lee sending Little to the line in which he hit the game-winning free throw to grab a 77-76 win.


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Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following KU's 77-76 victory over UCLA on Dec. 2, 2010.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

UCLA coach Ben Howland questions last-second call against his team

UCLA coach Ben Howland questions the last-second call against his team following KU's 77-76 victory over UCLA on Dec. 2, 2010.

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Mario Little hit a free throw with 0.7 seconds, giving the Kansas men's basketball team a 77-76 victory over UCLA on Thursday, Dec. 2, 2010 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Mario Little wasn’t shaking as he stepped to the foul stripe with a chance to win Thursday’s thriller against UCLA.

He was as calm as a fifth-year college senior could be.

“I knew I had two chances, so I wasn’t trippin’,” Little, Kansas University’s 6-foot-6 small forward from Chicago, said after his free throw with seventh-tenths of a second left busted a 76-all tie and propelled the Jayhawks a 77-76 victory — KU’s 64th straight win in Allen Fieldhouse.

“Sink the first one and let them deal with it,” he added with a smile.

He was told by coach Bill Self to miss the second of two tries.

Obliging, he bricked the second, the ball caroming to the Bruins, who had no time to set up a play to steal a key nonconference victory.

“I mean, it’s big free throws, but it’s what I do,” Little said. “I mean, my team needed me. I had to step up. I’m not a hero or anything like that. This is something I’m supposed to do.”

Yet the winning free throw — he was awarded two foul shots after getting “bumped” by Malcolm Lee while horsing up a shot just before the final buzzer — did feel perfect when it left his hand.

“I was on my tippy-toes and followed through. I mean, if you are a good shooter, you know when you are gonna make the shot,” Little said.

Being a fifth-year senior — he red-shirted last year — Little knew the situation called for a free-throw miss on the second try, with KU safely up one point.

“I already figured coach wanted me to miss it,” Little said, “but I looked over and asked coach Self, and he told me to go ahead and miss it. It’s not easy to do. I tried to throw something up there.”

Of course, just as big as Little’s free throw was his getting fouled in the first place.

Tyler Honeycutt, who exploded for 33 points — most against KU since Michael Beasley’s 39 on March 1, 2008 — stole the ball in the KU backcourt and drilled a three at :05, tying the score at 76.

KU rushed the ball upcourt, with Little ending up in the right spot at the right time.

“I saw Marcus pushing it,” Little said of Marcus Morris (16 points, six rebounds). “I was going to try to get a cleanup bucket or do something. He lost it. I saw it, tried to grab it and throw it up. The dude bumped into me a little bit, and I just threw it up. He (ref) called it.

“I think he did foul me. It was nothing crazy, but a little bit,” he added of the bump by Lee.

UCLA coach Ben Howland said it was a “disappointing” way for the game to end, especially after such a key three by Honeycutt.

But the game did end that way, providing Tyrel Reed with a sigh of relief. He was caught in the backcourt and committed the late turnover, though many fans thought Reed was fouled on his miscue.

“I should have called a timeout or threw it in our backcourt. I’m fortunate Mario hit the free throw at the end. It was a dumb play on my part,” Reed said.

Of course, KU would not have been in position to win had Reed not exploded for 15 points the first half and finished with a career-high 17.

“It was probably the only smart thing we did tonight,” KU coach Bill Self said of the final possession after Honeycutt’s trey. “Get the ball in quick and take it down the court. It’s what we talk about all the time. Don’t look for the timeout, get it in quick and put pressure on them.

“They outplayed us. It’s evident we were fortunate. Mario said he did get fouled at the end. Of course, if we made free throws (KU hit 16 of 30 to UCLA’s 14 of 22), it wouldn’t have come down to the last possession.”

Tyshawn Taylor was terrific with eight points in a key 13-2 run that turned a 64-60 deficit into a 73-66 lead at 2:52. Taylor finished with 17 points off 7-of-10 shooting.

“I think neither team played their best game,” Taylor said, “but it was one of those games two teams were going at it. Neither team played their best defensively, but that happens sometimes in games like this.

“We are a deep team, and we have guys that can do a lot of different things,” Taylor added of himself and Reed and others stepping up on a night the Morris twins had foul problems. “We showed that a little tonight, but we have to do more of that in upcoming games.”

Self will take the W.

“The crowd was great,” he said. “They won the game for us.”

KU will next meet Memphis in the Jimmy V. Classic at 6 p.m. Tuesday in New York.


Kirk Goodwin 11 years, 7 months ago

Played like booty. Fat boy traveled a bunch. Ref owed us one...we will take the win. Hello memphis on tuesday. Somehow the KU games matchup with my lawschool finals. Great way to end terrible days, let's keep winning! Love my first ever first post hahaha

chalmers2wright 11 years, 7 months ago

Haha my lawschool finals are all the day before KU games, wish they lined up tho.

Scott MacWilliams 11 years, 7 months ago

Wow. I thought that the Hawks wouldn't have this much trouble with UCLA. I'm glad they got the W but since I didn't get to watch the game, I have no idea if they played well or if UCLA was playing lights out... From this article, sounds like they certainly weren't on their game. 16 of 30 at the stripe?? Thats going to lose some games down the road. Alright Jayhawks, I'm sure that the coaches will have a recipe for what ails ya. Get busy with it, and don't look back. ROCK CHALK!!

Jared Grillot 11 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, they need to spend some time at the stripe this weekend, because that can definitely cost games... almost did last night.

Marc Frey 11 years, 7 months ago

Missed FTs cost us a NC vs the 'Cuse and gave us one vs MSU. But we must work on them,

DaNeille Dani Davis 11 years, 7 months ago

You can watch the replay on It really wasn't a pretty game. KU didn't play very well. We had some moments of greatness then we'd lose it. At least we won. I thought the refs were terrible all night.

hawk316 11 years, 7 months ago

GB, since you missed the game, here's a quick analysis...

It was a perfect recipe for disaster... in this case, the end of a home winning streak (but applicable as well to an NCAA tournament loss): a talented team playing well (but probably overachieving somewhat) + a player on that team who is on fire and shoots "lights out" (Honeycutt) + a subpar performance by the Jayhawks (often including either poor free throw shooting or lots of turnovers or both). As Coach Self admitted, we were fortunate to win this one.

NH_JHawk 11 years, 7 months ago

Classy thing to do? Seriously? Do you think if the situation had been reversed and Honeycutt was fouled in the last second that Howland would've been "classy" and called for both free throws to be missed intentionally? Not a chance. The foul was an unfortunate call (for UCLA) but the refs were calling touch fouls all night, both ways, so no one should be that surprised by the call.

Scott Oswalt 11 years, 7 months ago

That's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

Scott Oswalt 11 years, 7 months ago

Why would we intentionally miss both shots? To be classy?

Ben Kliewer 11 years, 7 months ago

I'm sure Boise Coach Chris Peterson told Kyle Brotzman to intentionally miss that 26 yard field goal at the end of regulation against Nevada "just to be classy..."

Jeremy Bloom 11 years, 7 months ago

Agreed. It's the coaches job to get a W. As long as the Jayhawks didn't cheat, that's the way it goes.

KU_alum_2001 11 years, 7 months ago

How can you say Howland isn't classy? I'd love to hear this explanation.

Ben Kliewer 11 years, 7 months ago

I just read that you're a child molester...

Lindsey Buscher 11 years, 7 months ago

"[Reed] was caught in the backcourt and committed the late turnover, though many fans thought Reed was fouled on his miscue."

That's because it was a foul. Therefs should have called a foul there and put Reed on the line where he would have hit two free throws putting us up 78-73.

That no-call reminded me of the 2008 fUCLA-Oregon game where fUCLA was allowed to come back and win by pushing a Duck out of bounds and not getting called, which lead to a game-winning over-the-backboard shot (that should not have counted because over-the-backboard shots are out-of-bounds).

Rick Arnoldy 11 years, 7 months ago

I nominate this for "Dumbest Post of the Game". It's in the running for the season award as well.

bad_dog 11 years, 7 months ago

Consider the source-good old KSA, the one that uses the Kansas statutory reference for indecent liberties with a child as it's loser name. Don't expect anything substantive or meaningful out of this one.

KSA's just a troll, albeit a more repugnant one than typical.

Ben Kliewer 11 years, 7 months ago

No, we'd be reading about how much of an idiot Coach Self is. Thankfully he's not, and we took the win.

KULA 11 years, 7 months ago

PS-KSA, do you think any self-respecting coach would want an opponent to intentionally miss, ie, to try NOT to win, to give him another chance?

Ann Oneill 11 years, 7 months ago

This is about the stupidest statement I've ever seen on this board. It is not second grade girls hoops. just sayin....

Dan Harris 11 years, 7 months ago

Look up the word moron and you'll see a picture of yourself.

Brian Conrad 11 years, 7 months ago

some very bad decision making. some bad coaching .. and I never say this about Self.. but he should have made sure ball was in Reed's hands in last 29 seconds when it was for sure UCLA would foul , last 2 minutes very bad play very lucky to win. MU just shows few nights back NEVER throw ball back under other teams goal .. Reed should have known better. Marcus poor decision to drive basket and pickup charge when he should have been using up shot clock.. Self should have told them NO shots let em foul and keep ball in Reed's hands . Twins have to make better decisions, especially towards the end of games for this team to advance very far in tourney. come on charges, bad fouls, poor clock usage . play smart and you can win it all, but bad decisions towards the end of games = early exit

KUFool 11 years, 7 months ago

cooonrod - thanks for bringing up the Marcus charge - I can't believe that hasn't received more attention. In a game full of poor decisions and shot selection, that was the one that I thought was going to bury us. If I'm not mistaken, we still had 15ish seconds left on the shot clock - what is he doing driving a crowded lane?

Jared Grillot 11 years, 7 months ago

Definitely. He's nearly perfected that mid-range jumper... do what you know.

yovoy 11 years, 7 months ago

marcus' charge was what gave UCLA a chance to win. i was most ticked at marcus' drive. we didn't need points there, we needed to run clock, and we especially didn't need a charge (turnover). i think there were 21 seconds on the shot-clock when he got the ball, and 19 when he committed the foul. we were up 4 with :55. marcus ALSO had tyrell open on our last possession (before he lost the ball and mario cleaned it up for us all). he didn't even give him the ball then, but if he'd've given it up, mario wouldn't've been able to do what he did - he might not have had to.

these guys have played enough basketball to know that you get the ball into either tyrell's or tyshawn's hands at this point in any game that is close. i'm sure that they've practiced situations enough that they know it as well. i imagine that we'll see either ty or ty come and demand the ball come late-game.

2 more things:

say what you'd like about sleeves, but he made defensive plays at the end that kept us from losing. after the one he had around the 1:00 mark, he had people ahead, but he slowed down on purpose - then gave the ball to reed. reed gave it to tyshawn, and tyshawn gave it to marcus, then marcus charged with over half the shot-clock left.

when reed was "fouled" on the inbounds, he wasn't. he got trapped, pivoted the wrong direction, might've been fouled, traveled, then threw it away.

yates33333 11 years, 7 months ago

Kudos to the referees. I have never understood the idea that they are not supposed to call a foul at the very end of the game. A foul at the end should be handled no different than a foul at the beginning, but I know they aren't. Announcers, coaches who lose, many fans, and lots of players consider not calling a foul in the last seconds to be the proper thing to do. KSA_21_3503, see above, and Coach Howland are prime examples, although KSA is possibly a K-State fan and like Howland biased from the get-go.

Unless things change Baylor's bigs and K-State's front lines will clobber KU's center and power forward. The idea that guards determine the outcome of big games will once again be proven to be a lot of hype. All five players and their replacements determine the outcome. Hopefully, our smaller players can pick up the slack the way TT and Tyrel did last night. I always have trouble assessing defense but apparently Morningstar once again did a fabulous job.

yates33333 11 years, 7 months ago

Let's see. You do not deny you are a K-State fan and try to pass it off with a feeble insult. I wrote "possibly a K-State fan" based on the fact that so ignorant a comment as yours must be from either a K-State or MU fan. Your incompetence and stupidity makes it obvious you are not a KU graduate. Then again you are probably so incompetent you do not know the meaning of ignorance.

Joe Satterwhite 11 years, 7 months ago

KU is already classy by itself so we dont need to give UCLA any freebies

TheShot122293 11 years, 7 months ago

KSA_21_3503, can you please give everyone an explanation of why you chose KSA_21_3503 as your handle? As an aside, if you are going to insult someone's intelligence by question whether they passed preschool, you should perhaps know that preschool isn't hyphenated. Back to the point, however, it would appear that preschool is where you spend far too much of your time.

You are beneath a Mizzou fan, and even further beneath a KSU fan.

KULA 11 years, 7 months ago

Make that a "2 game analysis." Check out how he filled up the stat sheet against AZ. (that's sarcasm, btw--Withey had a similar line in 3 minutes) The kid does nothing against quality opponents except get beat on D and NOT score. He constantly gets beat off the dribble by any decent player and simply is not a threat to score.

Okay, he did get his hand in for a couple steals, but he also dribbled out of bounds for a TO late. Just can't see what justifies 30m/g for this kid.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

Brady and Reed got back-doored a couple of times. Other than that, I don't recall Honeycutt or any other perimeter player for UCLA getting any easy shots. The shots they were making were well-guarded -- they were just incredible shots.

Brady was 3 for 3 with 4 assists and 3 steals. What the hell do you people want from the guy?

KULA 11 years, 7 months ago

hawk-don't forget his 3 TO's (effectively negating his 3 steals) and 3 fouls, one on a 3pt shot. Is that what you call well-guarding the three? If a guy's gonna get 30 min/game, I want him to be some kind of offensive threat. Three shots a game does not constitute a threat. Especially when everyone knows you're not going to shoot late in the game when the pressure's on.

But at least you didn't use the term "lock-down D" like a lot of the uninformed parrots on this board. Thanks for that. Aside from getting back-doored, he also gets beat off the dribble regularly by any decent player.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

"don't forget his 3 TO's (effectively negating his 3 steals)."

Ha ha, this just proves you'll never give the kid a break. I mean, if his 3 TOs offset his 3 steals, doesn't that mean his 3 field goals and 4 assists put him solidly in the positive column?

Oh, I forgot, you think he's a bad defender, too. I think I'll take the word of the #1 defensive coach in the country over yours, thanks.

KULA 11 years, 7 months ago

No, "3 field goal and 4 assists" does not put him solidly in the positive column when his guy scores 33 with 4 assists. Duh!

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

I'm not really sure what Brady or anyone else is supposed to do when a guy is hitting guarded NBA 3s. Grow longer arms? Just because your man is red-hot doesn't automatically mean you played poor defense. There's a reason Self always puts Brady on the opposition's best perimeter guy. Sometimes you get burned anyway, because the opposition just makes tough shots.

jaybate 11 years, 7 months ago

yates, you are so, so, so, sooooooooooooooooo right. Thanks for having a pair and standing up for the game and for the referees, who did exactly the right thing.

Rock Chalk!!

TheShot122293 11 years, 7 months ago

Agreed...yates is 100% correct. It sucked for Michigan and Chris Webber, too, but the rules are the rules.

jddehoff 11 years, 7 months ago

Where is the live game article ? Did they discontinue it or is it for the big 12 season only .Great win by the hawks but their going to have to play smarter and quit missing so many free throws or it's going to cost them some games .

Brad Avery 11 years, 7 months ago

Whether KU is coached by Roy Williams or Bill Self, I will never understand why there is so little emphasis on free throw shooting when it is obviously such an important aspect of the game. There is no way Division I basketball players should only make 50 percent of their free throws. Many of Self's players look like kids playing in their first tournament game when they walk to the line. No confidence. No rhythm to their shot. About half of them just throw it up there and hope it hits somewhere near the rim. Clang. It's awful. Little reminder, 2003 national championship game, Syracuse 81- KU 78, KU FT 12-30. Work on it!

s6u6r6f 11 years, 7 months ago

Have to agree. The free throw shooting must improve. Practice when fresh, practice when tired, and practice some more, please. Rock chalk.

Dyrk Dugan 11 years, 7 months ago

16-30 free throws is bad....but we did make four of five down the stretch (before Mario's intentional miss.)

FT shooting comes and goes....good grief, Tyshawn and Marcus were the main culprits...and they're better free throw shooters than that normally. when KU makes 22-26, i want to see everyone of you post about the outstanding free throwing, and praising the coach for the hard work in practice.

the bigger picture is, we have plenty of work to do on the real fundamentals...defense and rebounding. we got outboarded last night, and way too many good looks for them...dribble drives or pick and pops.

on the last three, Brady (who just earlier made a great steal, so kudos to him for that) went beneath the screener....and the UCLA kid was moving TOWARD would have been much easier and smarter to go over the top, then he would have been instantly in Honeycutt's face. and the Reed gaffe, not good. he's smarter than that.

Smarter and tougher. we just have to get smarter and tougher. these are good games for us though....that game should have not been a win, so it says something good, that we pulled it out.

ku_foaf 11 years, 7 months ago

I remember a similar situation in 1987, I believe. It was Keith Harris that shot the free throws, and we won with less than 0.5 seconds left. I think we were playing St. Johns. It was a Big East school for sure. An All-American on the other team went up to Keith and taunted him about overtime before the shot.

lincase 11 years, 7 months ago

There was also a situation against Oklahoma State a few years ago. I believe Ryan Robertson hit a free throw to win the game with no time on the clock.

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

“I already figured coach wanted me to miss it,” Little said, “but I looked over and asked coach Self, and he told me to go ahead and miss it. It’s not easy to do. I tried to throw something up there.”

Funny, KU made missing free throws look pretty easy all night! Good grief. On the year as a whole they have been below average, which is disappointing because they couldn't miss in their 2 exhibition games and I thought that would not be an area of concern this year.

ohjayhawk 11 years, 7 months ago

I'm thinking that the hardest part would be missing while still hitting the rim. If it doesn't hit rim, they would've taken the ball out of bounds.

Ben McDaniel 11 years, 7 months ago

Is a Bill Self team ever going to be good at shooting free throws? The guys don't even have good form (some of them bend their knees but still don't actually use their legs -- they just bend them, unbend them, and then use their arms to throw the ball at the basket). I suppose the coaching staff must think it's better to let the guys use whatever form is comfortable. But our stats prove that's not the right approach for this team. Maybe if someone's a great free throw shooter, he shouldn't have to learn "correct" form, but the guys with low percentages (most of the guys) should change how they shoot them.

How long would it take to have them learn good form and practice shooting free throws? If it would take a lot of time, I suppose we're doing the right thing by focusing on other stuff -- after all, we're really good at everything else, and it wouldn't be a good idea to take practice time away from those other things. But I can't imagine learning to shoot free throws would take that much time. Besides, the shooting practice might make our already high field goal percentage even higher.

Ken Pomeroy's ratings haven't come out yet this morning. I wonder how far we will fall (yesterday we were #1 overall with the #2 offense, behind Duke, and #2 defense, behind Ohio State). We'll probably end up #2 overall, behind Duke (my guess is #4 offense and #4 defense).

Ben McDaniel 11 years, 7 months ago

I was way off on the ratings. We're still #1 overall, and still #2 on defense, but we dropped to #3 on offense, behind Duke (#2 overall) and Pittsburgh (#4 overall). I thought it was early enough in the season that the game would hurt more, but I guess not. (He does take pre-season games into account this early in the season.)

Jim Pendleton 11 years, 7 months ago

benmcd - Apparently you have forgotten the most important Bill Self coached game of the past few years in your free throw analysis. The Hawks were 14 of 15 at the line in the '08 title game! After missing the first one of the game, they didn't miss the rest of the night. How did Memphis do?

Big guys often struggle at the line, but they have had some better games until the last few. The bigger issue to me is we weren't getting the ball in the hands of our better free throw shooters at the end of the game. Yes Tyshawn missed some, but our best shooter (Reed) never even got to the line in the second half, although he should have when he was also 'bumped' out of bounds late.

You can go back many years on guys who haven't been good foul shooters, but we have also had many good ones. To say Coach Self and staff are the problem is just crazy. We know they work on this every day. Let's hope this night was our worst of the year. Rock Chalk!!

Ben McDaniel 11 years, 7 months ago

Good call, jayhawkjim. I should keep my mouth shut when I don't know what I'm talking about.

Carter Patterson 11 years, 7 months ago

Just saw a headline on Mike and Mike...."UCLA Robbed at Kansas?"...please.

Ben McDaniel 11 years, 7 months ago

I hope their answer to that question was "no."

Jared Grillot 11 years, 7 months ago

You can't be robbed if you don't know to keep your hands to yourself with a tie game and seconds to go on the clock, especially when you know for certain that the refs have been calling touch fouls all night. That's not robbed, that's being the guy who made the last mistake.

Jared Grillot 11 years, 7 months ago

And now that I've watched and re-watched and re-watched that last play, there is no reason not to call that foul. Both going after the ball, yes, but the fact that Mario got the shot off, sloppy as it was, means he had control and there was most definitely contact. Does it suck for UCLA? Yes. Did they still play well against us? Yes. But, stuff happens. If that ball had gone bouncing across the court after that instead of going up to the hoop, there would be no call. Since the shot went up, there was a foul. Have to credit Mario for having the presence of mind to go for it.

tis4tim 11 years, 7 months ago

I'm glad we got the win, but I can't help but think that as long as this home win streak remains intact, the weight of maintaining it game in and game out is going to be like a millstone anchored around the necks of our boys. I'm certainly not advocating a loss to relieve that pressure, but they look like they are playing "heavy".

Nice games for Tyrel, Brady and TT. I was very impressed with those three last night. TT seemed to instinctively know when to get assertive in the second half and he was a big reason for the "W".

Like others have said, the free throw thing is very disconcerting. I don't know why our teams seem to be so abysmal from the line year in and year out.

A win we had to steal, but a win nonetheless.

BCRavenJHawkfan 11 years, 7 months ago

How in the world was KU in this position to begin with? Similar with the Arizona game. It seems that suddenly since the blowout win before the Arizona game (a game that Self indicated was the worst showing by this team because we fell in love with the three ball) it has been decided to go slow and grind. No one can argue that in both this game and the Arizona game that KU started hot hot hot from outside. Arizona it was Marcus, this game it was Reed. Then at the first time out these guys are chastised for raining threes as opposed to grinding and slogging. Even the first five minutes of this one KU was the one running and getting out on the break at will. But after the first time out it was as if Self passed out the Xanax. WTF.

KU_FanSince75 11 years, 7 months ago

Next big test without Selby-----Memphis Tigers! Practice the free throws----please! FT's could determine the Memphis game.

Ben Kliewer 11 years, 7 months ago

As we all recall, Free Throws determined the last Memphis game...(Actually, have we played them once since the NC? I can't I kinda think we did. Anybody?)

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

These were some of my comments after the Arizona game, regarding things we learned about this team after playing one game against a quality opponent:

  • The Twins have to learn to play defense and stay out of foul trouble.

  • KU's superior perimeter defense may have been a bit misleading as Arizona shot the ball fairly decent and was regularly getting open looks.

  • Rebounding is an obvious area that needs improvement.

All three of those points reared their ugly heads last night and almost brought KU's home court winning streak to a screeching halt. Some additional musings following last night's game (and not related to the officiating, a subject that has been discussed to the point of exhaustion).

  • EJ does not appear ready to help the team this year. After he had a break-out game against one of our cupcake opponents I conceded to the EJ supporters that I may have been wrong and he may be ready to take the next step. After seeing him in 2 games against quality opponents...clearly not. His defense was awful - the worst of many bad perimeter defenders last night, and in the half-court offense he brings nothing to the team that we can't get from anyone else.

  • Bill Self is on record as saying Travis - with his speed, length, and athleticism - needs to evolve into a lock-down defender. We might be waiting awhile to see that. He looked very soft trying to fight through screens last night, and even when not screened he routinely lost his man. I think Travis's minutes will continue to be limited until he develops into a better defender, as Self has already showed that he covets Mario Little's rebounding ability.

  • Was great to see Reed get his shot falling again. He was lights out in the first half. But then...where did he go in the second? It was almost like as soon as he missed his first three point attempt he decided to quit while he was ahead. Him and Brady led the team in minutes played, and with Brady's limited offensive arsenal, it's got to be hard to run an offense with only 3 guys looking to score in the second half with both Tyrel and Brady in the game. Don't get me wrong, Brady's 3-3 from the field is nice and efficient, but at least one of those buckets came in transition. In a half-court game, he's not even a moderate threat to score.

  • Tyshawn was clearly our best player, and his timely scoring was huge last night. One of the more pleasant surprises for me personally this year has been his play, as I was definitely one of his doubters coming into the season.

Anyway, hoping for a better effort against Memphis.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

"Brady's 3-3 from the field is nice and efficient, but at least one of those buckets came in transition."

It really seems like you're going out of your way to slam Brady here. Not all five guys on the court have to be great scorers. In the same post, you note that EJ and Travis played poor perimeter D -- well, there's your explanation for Brady's minutes. And don't forget 4 assists and 3 steals. (He did, like his teammates, turn it over too much.)

It looked to me as if UCLA focused on stopping Reed in the second half, which opened things up for Tyshawn. You have to take what the defense gives you. The bigger problem on offense was that the twins and T-Rob just couldn't get it going consistently.

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

I'm sorry, but first of all I do not subscribe to the theory that you take what the defense gives you, at least not if you want to be a great team. If you take what the defense gives you, you have seasons like last year where all year we were content to take what the defense gave us, and it bit us in the back-side against UNI. You can only do that if you have 5 guys capable of scoring on the floor. Great teams impose their will on defenses, not the other way around.

As for Brady, I try very hard to assess his situation as fair as possible. I've been very critical of him in the past, but have also ate crow and admitted when he plays well. I did not think he played good defense last night. He had some steals which is always good, and I will admit he did the best of all the defenders we had on Honeycutt. However, to me that is like being the valedictorian of summer school. The best of poor choices. He got beat more more than just a time or two. Don't get me wrong, there are posters on here placing all of the blame for Honeycutt's performance on Brady and that is inaccurate, but he definitely didn't do much to slow him down.

However, even this was not the original point I was making. The point I was making is that in the second half with Reed not being aggressive having him on the floor with Brady basically allowed the UCLA defense to play 5 on 3, especially when it's two perimeter players that aren't a threat to score (basically if it was say one perimeter player and one post player, the effect wouldn't have seemed so dramatic). It was more a critique of Reed, and an assessment of Brady. Even if I buy that UCLA was focusing on stopping Reed (eh, maybe more of an effort, but I doubt they centered their defensive game plan on stopping him), he showed in the Arizona game he can put the ball on the floor and score, where was that? My point was that Tyrel made us a very easy team to guard by (at least as it appeared to me) not being aggressive and looking for his shot in the second half.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

If your 4th and 5th scoring options notch 17 points (Reed) and go 3 for 3 (Brady), it seems to me that's pretty good. RussRob wasn't much of a scoring threat, either, but he was still a hugely valuable guy. It just isn't all about scoring, or else the Phoenix Suns would have won titles in the mid-'00s instead of the San Antonio Spurs.

As for defense, I honestly don't remember Honeycutt getting any easy shots at all. It was just an amazing performance.

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

You continue to miss the point that almost all of those points came in the first half! Jeez I can't be any clearer in my posts. In the second half, having both Reed and Brady in the game made us very easy to guard, because neither was a threat to score. That's not that hard to understand. And I'm not saying that you have to be all about scoring, but that line-up combination is very anemic offensively. No, RussRob was not a huge offensive threat, but when was he ever put out there on the perimeter with anyone else that wasn't? Chalmers, Rush, and Collins could all score, so the perimeter offense was still potent.

As for Honeycutt's performance, looking at the response from other poster's...your memory is pretty hazy.

crestdr 11 years, 7 months ago

It was very frustrating watching Marcus brick fadeaway after fadeaway. Back your man down and take it to the hole.

Jared Grillot 11 years, 7 months ago

Except that on every other night, that fadeaway is his bread and butter. However, have to admit that if it isn't falling, try something else... as long as something else isn't hooking your defender to drive into traffic.

tis4tim 11 years, 7 months ago

That hook was pretty blatant, but as Jesse pointed out during in-game comments that move is rarely called an offensive foul. What's worse is several minutes later, Honeycutt did the same thing while slashing through the lane for a bucket, but there was no call.

Maddening inconsistency with the whistles last night.

kureignman 11 years, 7 months ago

The Morris' are much more effective when they stick to the turnaround, not the fadeaway. I think it was Jimmy Dykes who was saying in another game that you should land in the same spot as where you take off. Regardless if they hit that shot in the past, they will be much more consistent if they are not fading away.

Tony Bandle 11 years, 7 months ago

Observations: 1] UCLA is a lot better than I expected...or we're a lot worse. 2] On this night, our bigs had their heads somewhere else, Elijah and Travis were non-factors and Tyrel, Brady, Tyshawn and Mario saved the day. 3] Anyone who still believes that Josh Selby shouldn't start the second he becomes eligible should be spanked. 4] When did picking up items on the scorers table and throwing them into the crowd, not become a technical foul?? 5] Coach, Little got hammered by two guys....get mad at your players, not the refs. 6] Please explain to Brady that with seven seconds left and up by three you don't back off a three point shooter who is having a career night. 7] Somehow Kansas overcame the worst combination of foul shooting and three/four point plays allowed I have ever seen and still won. 8] Sometimes it's just better to be lucky than good!!!

2Bnamedlater 11 years, 7 months ago

"4] When did picking up items on the scorers table and throwing them into the crowd, not become a technical foul??"

I agree, I remember that Roy Williams got a T while at KU for taking off his jacket, yeah he threw behind the bench, but...And HCBS has had a few T's that were called becasue of his motions over his emotions.

Perhaps the refs were all looking at each other, rather than the whole court when Ben went a tad bit ballistic?? Cause they sure weren't watching much of the game all night.

Steve Gantz 11 years, 7 months ago

I said this some other place where you posted this list. 9) When you have a 5 or 6 point lead there is no reason to shoot the ball 5 seconds into the shot clock, even if you are under the basket. This happened around the 1 minute mark and I would firmly pick that as a key mistake should they have lost the game.

Jayhawk444 11 years, 7 months ago

Remember HCBS scolded all of the bigs for taking mid-range jumpers and not driving more like AZ's Williams. I could tell McM, MkM, and TRob were trying to drive more last night and it got into their heads. They over compensated maybe. Especially Marcus. I think it hurt us quite a bit in the first half, actually. But that will get better as it becomes more natural and they learn when they shouldn't force it

Jack Wilson 11 years, 7 months ago

Quick Hits -- I put this on another thread: 1. Tyshawn came up big. He let it come to him in the 2nd half. This guy has made the biggest leap; can't wait to see he and Selby slicing and dicing. 2. Brady's defense was horrible. No other way to slice it. Would have rather seen a bigger, faster, stronger Releford on Honycutt. 3. This game was all about poor free throw shooting and Howland getting the best of Self with his defensive scheme. How many three point looks did we get in the 2nd half? And on offense, UCLA got multiple open looks inside. Tip your cap to Howland on this one. 4. Back to Brady .. this is what I have meant (and others have pointed out). When others are playing subpar, we need another option. And I'm sorry, the guy isn't that good against stout competition. He sure can kick Ohio's butt, though, and Valpo wants no piece of him. He played 32 freaking minutes?? Unbelievable. 5. Refereeing was horrible. Atrocious 5th foul call on Kieff. And horrible call at the buzzer. You call the buzzer foul on something clear that stops a legit shot. That was b.s. Hate to win that way. But a lot of touch fouls called all game. 6. Have you noticed how well the Morrises control their emotions vs. their freshman year? Impressive. 7. Notice how cool Self was this game? Wonder why? 8. Mario playing so much was puzzling. Slow on D. Again, Releford . Releford played 10 minutes? Makes little sense. Everything about how Releford had played demonstrated he deserved 20+ minutes. 9. Some have referenced the Morrises not dunking enough. This was a game where their inability to flush the finish inside led to missed opportunities. 10. Withey .. can you please run down the court. Sprint please. 11. We'll be fine .. we just had a poor game. We'll get a decent idea of what this team is made of Monday night. Any more worries about Selby harming chemistry? Didn't think so.

Also, I would agree with ict .. last night was a prime opportunity for EJ to shine. He didn't. And his defense was poor last night.

Ty Mar 11 years, 7 months ago

to number 9. The bigs looked tired-i'm thinking they had a hard practice the day before.. or even earlier that day (if they ever practice the same day of a game).

BCRavenJHawkfan 11 years, 7 months ago

No kidding. They couldn't elevate above the shoe tops. How many rebounds did UCLA's tub of lard have flat footed?

Larry Smith 11 years, 7 months ago

You wanna know why Brady got 32 minutes? Listen to Coach Self's press conference after the game. He said Brady was our best defender last night, and the only one who guarded Honeycutt well. If you want to get minutes, you need to be able to play defense, it is that simple.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 7 months ago

He may say it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is true. Coach Self may have number or reasons for saying what he says .. go back and watch Brady getting torched. Back cut, step backs, jab steps, etc. Honeycutt must be an all-american.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

Right, Self's only the best defensive coach in the country, but you know more about who's a good defender than he does. Besides, you just got through saying EJ's a terrible defender and Mario played too much as well, so it's a bit puzzling as to just who you think should be getting the minutes.

Selby's not eligible yet, Releford's still learning on defense, so for the moment it's gotta be Brady. I'd say 3 for 3 with 4 assists and 3 steals is pretty damn good. Honeycutt back-doored him a few times; other than that, most of the shots he made were guarded; it was just great offense rather than bad defense.

It's funny that people keep bagging on Reed and Brady getting the start even though KU's been at its best at the start of games when they're in there. Honeycutt only got going later on in the 1st half.

Hank Cross 11 years, 7 months ago

"3 for 3 with 4 assists and 3 steals" in 30 freakin minutes is "pretty damn good" ? Talk about commitment to mediocrity.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

If Brady was supposed to be our first scoring option, those would be bad numbers. For a utility player who doesn't occupy the ball much, they are good.

KULA 11 years, 7 months ago

HEM, gotta say, I love hearing you sing Tyshawn's praises. Seriously, tho, this team looks best when Tyshawn is pushing it. This endless passing it around the perimeter hoping someone inside can break open is so easily defended--just ask UNI. The thing that held him back last year was Bill's mancrush on all things Sherron, who seems to have been replaced by Brady as the apple of Bill's eye. (Seriously, I'd think it was a NAMBLA thing, except the kid's like 25, right?) I cannot for the life of me see what in his stat line justifies 30min/g. You haven't heard anyone on this board touting Brady's "lock down defense" lately.

Gotta disagree on Mario, tho. I think he should be getting more minutes (at Brady's expense). The more he plays, the smoother he looks. He always has a good line for the minutes he plays. Always seems to be going toward the basket (like the last play of the game), and makes himself a threat to score (unlike Brady). He and Releford should be splitting Brady's minutes. Like I posted earlier this season, if you gave Brady's minutes to Mario & Travis, you'd get 20 pts/g. out of that position.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 7 months ago

For the record, KULA said the NAMBLA thing and I did nothing to provoke it. That is pretty funny, though.

TT is just a different player. I admit I am surprised. It's fun to enjoy seeing the guy with ball vs. dreading it.

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

My response to some of your points:

  1. Brady's D was horrible, but Releford's was equally as bad when he was in there. Releford may be all those things - bigger, faster, stronger - but none of that was helping him be in the right place last night. Also, his lack of hustle on a Honeycutt drive to the rim led to Markieff's first foul. Overall it wasn't a good night for our defense in general.
  2. Agreed.
  3. I agree here too, except in this game not sure who there was to turn to. EJ - on defense awful. On offense barely even knew he was out there. Travis - on defense awful. On offense barely even knew he was out there. Mario - on defense awful (agreed, slow feet). On offense was at least taking some good shots, and he rebounded on a night we were getting killed on the boards. Guess there's your answer.
  4. I think you have the same kind of blind spot for Releford that Coach Self has for Brady. "Everything about how Releford played"? I thought he played pretty poor. Like I said he was almost invisible on offense, in 9 minutes he took one 3-point shot and missed. Where was all his driving and slashing ability? That's supposed to be his game right? Tyshawn was able to do it several times last night. Not once did he Releford look aggressive on offense. For all the people who complained about X and how he never attacked the rim and how Releford was going to give us that...well last night you basically saw for 9 minutes what X was like last year while mired in his shooting slump, only difference was X would at least play defense and rebound to try and help us win. And while quick to point out how Brady couldn't guard Honeycutt (again, agreed), who do you think was on him when Brady was on the bench? Travis, and he was equally ineffective.
  5. No doubt. The guy...I don't know. Hard to say after he's been here for 2 years now (yes, only playing for one) that he's STILL a project...but he's still a project. There was a sequence of plays where he left Josh Smith wide open underneath the hoop to go double team or something, then got called on the next possession for a moving screen, then got pushed under the basket and gave up a rebound that he seemingly had good initial position...and Coach Self had seen enough.
  6. I hope so. I'm going to reserve any long-term judgments on the team until after Selby has played a few, but he's not going to fix the post and wing defense which to me is the biggest area of concern right now.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

I have a lot of trouble with the notion that our defense was "horrible" given that we had 10 steals and we forced 20 turnovers. There were more lapses than I'd like to see, but to me the bigger issue was that we got outmuscled on the boards, missed our FTs, and UCLA made a lot of great shots.

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

To your point about our defense not being horrible - Yes we got some steals and UCLA had an abundance of turnovers, but those are not fully telling of a defensive effort. Turnovers can be unforced, and steals can fall in your lap. For instance, the play where Fran Frascilla was talking about "the hustle drill", where the UCLA player was falling out of bounds and threw it right to one of our players (Mario Little if I'm not mistaken) underneath the basket. I will concede that there were a few nice steals, and Tyshawn's effort was excellent save for fouling Honeycutt on a three point shot. I loved seeing him diving on the floor early in the game to force a turnover. However, I'd point to these things as evidence that it was at least close to a horrible defensive effort:

  • UCLA shot 48.3% from the field and 42.9% from 3. Pretty high percentages for an unranked visiting team.

  • From the article: "Tyler Honeycutt, who exploded for 33 points — most against KU since Michael Beasley’s 39 on March 1, 2008."

  • 9 fouls on the Twins. Yes one or two were probably phantom calls, but their lack of ability to play solid post defense leads at least one if not both of them into foul trouble almost every game.

  • Having not one but two "and 1" calls on three point shots. (At least two anyway, I was busy for a few minutes to start the second half. Seems like I read somewhere that there might have been more).

I'd agree that our rebounding and free throw woes are issues that need to get resolved. And also that stats can be misleading. A team can shoot a high percentage while having a hand in their face all night, or shoot a poor percentage while having wide open looks. Just seemed like there were way too many defensive lapses.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

I just didn't see UCLA getting a lot of open looks, except admittedly on a few back-door plays, offensive rebounds, and (in the first half) a few fast breaks.

Certainly Self was unhappy about interior D, but overall I just think Honeycutt made really, really tough shots.

Hank Cross 11 years, 7 months ago

Travis got 9 minutes. How's he supposed to establish himself in that amount of time? If he gets over-aggressive, he's accused of trying to force it. It reminds me of '09 when he was looking over shoulder to see if he was getting subbed out after making any mistake. Of all games, this and the AZ game were perfect for giving Mario and Travis plenty experience for developing the skills the team will need in March. Losing to a decent team like UCLA or AZ early in the season is almost meaningless in terms of the brackets, but the experience gained could've paid big dividends.

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

This is the classic excuse used to defend guys who have bad games. 9 minutes is plenty of time to "establish himself", considering he probably can only expect to get double that on a night where he is playing decent. If he needs over half of his normal minutes to establish himself then he's going to have problems seeing the court much at all this year. Furthermore, that's pretty ridiculous logic. You're solution is that if someone is passive on offense, getting beat regularly on defense, and is not getting any rebounds is to play them more?

Also, I'm not sure sacrificing a home game to unranked UCLA and ending the longest home court winning streak in college basketball is meaningless.

2Bnamedlater 11 years, 7 months ago

UCLA out hustles KU almost the whole game. It seemed they got to all the lose balls and they got a ton of offensive rebs. It seemd that KU didn't box thier guys out, there were a few times a fuy would just walk down the lane after a shot was put up andget a reb and get an easy layup. You would think with KUs quickness that they would not be getting beat to the ball, anywhere on the court.

I will say that Mario's hustle paid off for a KU win.

But as almost everyone else has said, make some free thorws. That was a pthetic showing form the line. How many front ends did KU miss last night? When you miss the front end of a one and one, that basically cost your team 2 pts, not just one.

Jacobpaul81 11 years, 7 months ago

Now everyone knows why I've been talking about our guards and offensive rebounding for 2 weeks. We got killed on the glass. Brady upped his total to 2. Tyrel and Tyshawn are still at 0. We were 10 for 27 on 50-50 balls last night... and 4 of those were Mario. Mario may have missed 6 shots... but he at least made up for it with 8 rebounds... he out-rebounded all the other guards on the team... combined. Without Mario's 4, the team was 22% on recovering 50-50 balls on the offensive end. That is poor, and it starts with the guards. It was nice to see Tyrel and Tyshawn hitting shots... but we will not go far if they don't start chasing down offensive boards.

Ken Tschetter 11 years, 7 months ago

Howland can gripe about the foul call all he wants, but remember in the tournament in 2007 how his guys hacked and slapped their way to a victory over KU and a Final Four berth. He teaches this "defense" and now it comes back to bite him when the ref makes the call. I also recall (going old school now) another tournament loss to UCLA when Mark Randall was pushed in the back, the foul was not called, and UCLA got the game clinching rebound to advance. A horrible non-call that on replay was so clearly a foul, a two-hand shove in the back. The point is, what comes around goes around, and we should have absolutely no sympathy for UCLA. Having said that, KU needs to work on perimeter defense, free throw shooting, finishing around the rim, and adjusting defensively when someone is having a career night against them. How about double-teaming AZ's Williams or Honeycutt last night, or employing some other defensive strategy rather than just watch them go off.

Steve Gantz 11 years, 7 months ago

Sorry SD, the statute of limitations is up on the Mark Randall play :)

Robert Murphy 11 years, 7 months ago

When will players grow up and stop playing with their feet? They look like little kids. What was once kinda cut in grade school now looks childish.

Tony Bandle 11 years, 7 months ago

Hey...where have you been? I haven't seen a post from you in months...... good to hear from you. :}

prairie_rattler 11 years, 7 months ago

That foul call is never made in the closing seconds... and I was shocked that is was here.

For perspective... if the refs didn't let the hacks on Sherron go on the final seconds of the 2008 championship game and had called a foul... we would have lost that game.

Theutus 11 years, 7 months ago

Mario missing those bunnies sucked, but it wasn't the thing that killed us... Actually, Mario's effort and rebounding/blocking out was what was keeping us in the game for a large portion in my opinion... He was the only man outside of Brady that I thought played his defensive role to a T.

What killed us is poor shot selection, overall lack of effort, and no rebounding whatsoever... Our bigs are largely to blame for our performance, they did nothing all night. Also, Reed was hot in the first half, and we never ran any plays to get him more looks in the second... Not sure why.

Debbie Mangen 11 years, 7 months ago

When the game was 73-76 and UCLA had the ball with just seconds left, why wouldn't you foul someone inside and let them shoot 2 making the score 75-76 and we'd get the ball back? Instead, Honeycutt shoots a 3 to tie it. The game came out right, and the right call was made on the foul, but the refs sure missed a lot of fouls in the game. And called at least 2 ghost fouls on Markieff when he never made contact with the guy.

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

I posted this response on another thread to the question as to why not foul when up by three:

Well, typically you only do that when you are almost assured it is the final possession. Not sure what the exact time situation was, but another article says he made it with 5 seconds left. It's close. Say you do foul him, that would put another second or so on the clock (as you no longer have to account for the time of the shot). Then say he makes both, it's a one point game, and with the way KU had shot free throws last night, it's dicey. KU shot 53% from the charity stripe, so after in-bounding and getting fouled you'd have to say that we're looking at making 1 of 2 shots. So now it's a 2 point game with a couple of seconds left and a 3 beats you. Something else to consider is that they probably weren't even thinking that as Honeycutt's shot was off of a steal and not a set play.

Spencer Goff 11 years, 7 months ago

I've figured out what happened with our team last night, I found this in the medical dictionary, we need treatment asap:


An inflamation of the arm that results in a heavy sensation, causing a sudden loss of the ability to shoot free throws; often occurs in moments when free throws could keep you in a game or put another team away.

Symptoms include missing multiple free throws consecutively... back-to-back-to-back-to-back; patients often suffer temporary hearing loss from repeated loud clangings, it has also been known to cause "WTF Face" in fans.

Hank Cross 11 years, 7 months ago

In the rest of the BB world, getting lit up for 30+ = EPIC FAIL. Fouling on a 3pt shot - and letting the shooter get off the shot and make it, is a big defensive mistake. Letting your man repeatedly drive past you is not the hallmark of a "stopper." Yet, Brady does those things and his praises sung by many, including Self.

If Self thinks that Brady put out the best defensive effort; logically that would mean that everyone else did a worse job on their man, each of whom probably had career games. The 2nd highest Bruin scorer was Smith with 17 and only one other uclan scored in double figures, so Self's statement is absurd on its face.

Sadly, this appears to be Self's MO. Don't play to win, play not to lose. Emblematic of this approach is the continual playing of Brady. He makes Turgeon (as a player) look like Hinrich or Vaughn. Turgeon actually put the ball on the floor and tried to make something, the same cannot be said of Brady. Nonetheless, it appears Self views Brady as a mini-me (except Self could actually score IIRC) and will keep him in the starting line-up. Thus KU will play short-handed on offense whenever he's on the floor, and Travis's development will be slowed as he wonders why he didn't transfer if he was going to sit out a year anyway.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

"If Self thinks that Brady put out the best defensive effort; logically that would mean that everyone else did a worse job on their man, each of whom probably had career games."

Right, very logical. It couldn't be that Honeycutt just made a lot of tough, guarded shots, and that Self believed Brady guarded Honeycutt better than Travis, Mario, etc. guarded Honeycutt. It must just be that Self's a moron and should step aside in favor of an armchair coach like yourself.

If "don't play to win, play not to lose" is somehow Self's philosophy, well, it's guided us to a national title and 6 straight conference titles. So, I guess I'll take it.

Hank Cross 11 years, 7 months ago

Then take Bradley, Bucknell and Northern Iowa too. As for '08, what you be saying if that shot by Davidson goes in, or Mephis makes just one more free throw, or Derrick Rose's other foot is behind the 3pt line on that bankshot, or Mario misses?

KULA 11 years, 7 months ago

I have a suspicion that '08 was a fluke because those guys were all too high to listen to BS, haha. Btw, I find it eerily ironic that in pregame, BS thanked THEM for taking him along for the ride.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

Or what if Derrick Rose hadn't made that ridiculous circus shot at all, which was the more likely scenario.

Self is the best defensive coach in the country, and his team was the only one that whole tournament that even came close to containing Rose (also the only one that contained Steph Curry and Ty Hansbrough). Sure, we could have lost to Memphis (we had a lot of luck in '88 as well) but if we hadn't been as well coached as we were, we never would have even been in position to win it.

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

Really? Playing the "what if?" scenario? OK...well what if Egleseder doesn't make 2 threes for UNI? What if Brandon Rush shoots better than 1-5 from 3 against Bradley? What if Aaron Afflalo and Darren Collison don't make ridiculous shot after ridiculous shot in the elite 8 game of '07? Not saying I agree with Hawk of ages original position, but come on...are you really going to try and discredit a National Championship team/season/head coach with a bunch of "what ifs"? That's pretty weak.

And yes I'll take the Bradley, Bucknell, and UNI losses with a National Championship. Anyone who wouldn't can take Roy's accomplishments here at KU. They're...nice. More Final Fours. Some early round upsets, and no rings.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

No need to bag on Roy, either. There are plenty of what ifs in his tenure as well that kept us just short of a title. He's obviously proved himself to be a championship coach just as Self has.

But I'm very happy with the guy we've got now. He may have his weaknesses, but they're far, far outweighed by his strengths.

hawksfan08 11 years, 7 months ago

Brady played fantastic defense in the 08-09 season. He has never been the same since. He is a serviceable role player and glue man. But he is not a 30 minutes per game starter. He is not an offensive threat at all. If you watch the game back, any time UCLA double teamed, they used Brady's man. He also struggles to guard larger more athletic players. When someone gets off for a ton of points on us you will nearly always find Brady guarding him. The taller players simply shoot over the top of him. Even if he is in their chest it doesn't matter. We are not a contender until Brady is playing 10-15 sub minutes.

Additionally, I'd really like to know what happened to all the talk of Marcus playing the 3 and Little or Releford at the 4 went. That puts everyone in a position that they can exploit. It also removes Brady from the equation for the majority of the game giving us the best of all worlds.

Hank Cross 11 years, 7 months ago

You're overlooking one thing about the lack of scoring in the UNI game. When the lights were flashing red and we needed someone to step and score, whose fault was it that two players who could've been developed into scorers (Travis and Mario) were sitting helplessly looking on from the bench? Self redshirted those two and precious Brady kept his minutes. As a result, X's ulitmate value was never realized and all anyone will remember from the seaon is the UNI loss.

Brian Skelly 11 years, 7 months ago

We won. So there's that. Otherwise, I dont think we played all that well. I cant decide if thats because UCLA is better than advertised or we arent as good as advertised. Probably both.

We have (as have our guards) been SOOOO spoiled with Aldrich, Jackson, Kaun the past several years clogging up the lane and having the fear of getting your shots blocked very real for our opponents.

When you have a freak like Aldrich back there, the guards are 'funneling' ball handlers in there. When you dont have that, your simply getting blown by. Our on the ball "D" on the perimeter was horrible last night. Problem is, I dont see it getting a whole hell of a lot better. Again, we've been spoiled. Our defense has gone from 'unworldly great' the past several years to 'merely good' this year. I guess this is what other teams deal with all the time. I for one dont like it though.

One thing is apparent though. There are NOT only 3 other teams better than us in the country. How were 4th is beyond me. We're going to have to battle, scratch, and claw just to be the 4th best team in the Big 12. Obviously we're capable of that. Id even expect it to some degree. But our lack of defensive instincts (something either players have or dont) is lacking compared to years pasts. Ultimately, this will cost us.

hawk_of_ages 11 years, 7 months ago

"Lack of defensive instincts." Right, we only had like 10 steals.

tauck 11 years, 7 months ago

it comes down to rebounding, we sucked last year even with cole and we have not improved at all. we may be the worst rebounding team in the united states. brady needs to be able to shoot the 3 just like tyrell or get him out and let releford get those important minutes. brady also needs to fight over the top of the pick with 8 seconds left especially with jump help coming, he took the easy way out and went behind...result 3 ball and the tie!!! brady, into the gym and get a thousand 3's up a day and get your confidence back, son at this present time nobody on ucla team even guarded you when you had the ball. great husle though but you gotta be able to shoot to play

tis4tim 11 years, 7 months ago

I suggested in an earlier post that our FT shooting seems to be bad year after year, and there's been some talk about it today, so I looked it up. Here's what I found:

2001-02: 623-867 (.719) 2002-03: 594-906 (.656) 2003-04: 525-743 (.707) 2004-05: 451-649 (.695) 2005-06: 451-671 (.672) 2006-07: 535-811 (.660) 2007-08: 598-852 (.702) 2008-09: 567-782 (.725) 2009-10: 609-871 (.699) 2010-11: 111-172 (.645)*

Total: 5064-7324 (.691)

Now, since this year has just begun, I'm going to concentrate on the previous nine seasons. In that time, we had 7152 FT attempts over the course of 320 total games. or an average of 22.35 attempts/game.

If you take our 69% overall FT average in those nine years that equates to 15.44 made FT per game.

The difference between makes and attempts is 6.91, which is the number of potential points per game we have left on the floor over the past nine years.

However, I was taught as a kid that 80% from the line should not be an unreasonable goal for any player. If we take 80% of 22.35 attempts it equals 17.88 makes per game. That means the difference between 80% shooting and 69% shooting over those same nine years is 2.44, which would be the number of potential points we generally leave on the floor per game if we adhere to the 80% FT shooting standard.

It should be noted that some of those missed FT over the years were probably front ends of a 1-and-1 situation, which means the potential for missed points is actually higher. How significantly I don't know and I don't have time to research that.

Someone feel free to check my math as it's never been my strongest suit, but I don't think 69% as a team over a decade is all too strong and has surely cost us some games if you take into account squeakers and close defeats besides the Syracuse loss, which is the poster child for what poor FT shooting can mean for your team. I'd say we've made it tougher on ourselves over the years than it had to be.

Steve Gantz 11 years, 7 months ago

Interesting (are you off work today!), I've always thought we've shot a bit better with Self as coach. Also the lowest percentage there (besides current year) is 02-03. Why didn't we cut the nets that year? 14-32 ft's in the NC game. Still my most painful KU loss.

tis4tim 11 years, 7 months ago

I'm on my lunch break and I forgot my sandwich. I had to do something!

chriz 11 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, KU was a little disappointing last night on several accounts, but on a brighter note, I think Tyshawn Taylor was fantastic. He made some mistakes, sure, but he also made some good passes and finished so well close to the rim. I think Self has done a great job with him and he'll be getting some love from NBA scouts soon. Hopefully not too soon.

Bleed_Crimson_Blue 11 years, 7 months ago

For those of you who say you've NEVER seen a foul call to end the game, I give you this...

Rock Chalk!

KULA 11 years, 7 months ago

Right on! Can you forward these vids to the twins?

dynamitehawk 11 years, 7 months ago

Dang. Hack-a-Hawk strategy could be our downfall this year.

jayhawkinATL 11 years, 7 months ago

Yep, we need to get our team FT% out of the 60s and into the mid-to-upper 70s.

jayhawkinATL 11 years, 7 months ago

I think someone may have made a reference to this fact earlier:

All-time victories: KU 2010, UNC 2008

Second place now!!!

jayhawkinATL 11 years, 7 months ago

...and seeing how UNC is struggling already this year, I believe we widen this gap as the year moves on.

KULA 11 years, 7 months ago

Hmm, UNC vs UK this weekend...for whom should I root?

100 11 years, 7 months ago

UNC & UK playing tomorrow:

Not that rooting is the correct term, but if forced to be God for a day, who would you "make" win?

Myself, I'm preferring UNC, gets us a game closer, back to our righteous place in history atop the all-time list.

Anyone have a valid reason to "root" for UK tomorrow that doesn't include a barf bag & going to get your tooth pulled by your grandmother's husband who is also your brother?

2Bnamedlater 11 years, 7 months ago

I'm with you 100, how could anyone in thier right mind root for UK? Plus why not try and help a struggeling UNC?

That last part does make me laugh though.

dynamitehawk 11 years, 7 months ago

If I get to be God, can I make Roy Williams start wear powder-blue mini-skirts and talk like Mr. Garrison from South Park?

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 7 months ago

rumor has it he plays that role for sheshevski every friday night.

jayhawktalk 11 years, 7 months ago

Other than it is something new to talk about, not sure why the call vs. no call at the very end of the game is such an issue.

Some thoughts (good): - Taylor won us the game at the end. I have swung from hate to love with this kid, from last year to this one. He and Selby playing together is going to be something really special to watch, post 17 Dec. - Reed made some shots. Who'da thunk it? Seriously, great to see last night. Hopefully it was a confidence builder. I really want to see a local KS guy who has worked so hard all his life doing well. - Little is a great rebounder for his size. Definitely a nose for the ball. - TRob is an animal in the best possible way. - Despite all the hype, I'm still not sure Marcus Morris even realizes how good he is. Sans-hype and foul trouble, the same could be said for 'Kief. - Brady is much better than many KU fans realize, or are willing to acknowledge here.

Some thoughts (not so good): - At ~6'5", why is Little our best rebounder? Why!?! Mind boggling. - I am "loving" watching our 6'8"+ posts shoot fall away shots from 6 feet from the basket and in, this year. Both Williams (AZ) and Smith (UCLA) were reported as being prone to foul trouble coming into the games... We make the games much more interesting and fun to watch by avoiding contact, which could cause them to pick up fouls; this way they can stay in the game and make it exciting from start to finish while putting up career best performances against a "great" KU defense. - It is "exhilarating" watching TRob run the point on fast breaks. Great things are going to happen with him charging/dribbling full speed down the court with guards running on either side waiting for the ball to squirt out. - After some early success blocking shots against lesser opponents, I now "love" watching TRob matador a driving opponent while he stutter steps, watching them drive the lane while trying to time a block instead of stepping in front of them and stopping the penetration... Also totally forgetting where is man is, in the process. Even better, after the shot, he is now completely out of position to rebound. - Apparently denying a post the ball is no longer an accepted means of guarding. Better to play behind them, go for a block after allowing a bitty-ball-easy entry pass, even if it results in a foul 50+% of the time.

Free throws and officiating aside, we should have lost the game last night by 10 pts., which was a home game that should have easily been won by 10 - 20 pts. Please forgive the sarcasm... I love the team and the kids and am honestly excited for this year's prospects. Just venting a little. My wife got tired of hearing me complaining about it, so I decided to selfishly air my frustration elsewhere...

Jack Wilson 11 years, 7 months ago

jayhawktalk: If Brady is so good, why has he played so poorly against the two decent opponents we have faced? And why did he play so poorly last season? Look, Brady's decent. He does a few nice things .. a steal here and there, feeds the post pretty good. And he'll have a decent game every so often. But not starting .. for KU. 3rd guy off the bench, 10 - 12 minutes per game. Sure. But not 32 minutes. And watching Honeycutt work him over, it was obvious Brady was out of his league.

jayhawkinATL 11 years, 7 months ago

I think both Brady and EJ will see their minutes virtually disappear once Selby plays.

jayhawktalk 11 years, 7 months ago

I didn't say brady was an all american - brady isn't going to win a beauty contest with his play (or appearance). he won't pull an EJ 1-2 times a game (with major minutes) and put up a sports center highlight. fortunately, he also won't bounce the ball off the rafters while fans look around trying to figure out where he inserted his head while trying to throw down the first televised, self-assisted 1080 dunk.

his minutes will be impacted by selby's eligibility, as they should be, and as i am sure he has known and graciously accepted months ago.

i didn't start my original post thinking to become a brady apologist, as i think anything related to brady is the least of KU's worries, but i don't mind defending him a little... i see a lot of people repeatedly faulting brady's play last year. brady's play last year was largely devoid of highlights, but last year's TEAM played dramatically better when brady was on the court... pointing fingers at brady is no brainer; it's like telling someone they need to put +1 psi into their tires to get better gas mileage, while ignoring the baseball sized hole in the gas tank.

...I didn't mention it previously, but great seeing self & team extend the defense a little while occasionally doubling ucla's ball handlers. we have the personnel and depth to do it, and ucla was noticeably bothered by it. personally luv'd it. ty, hcbs.

ParisHawk 11 years, 7 months ago

Q: When can you not let a building fall down? A: - once it's built, and - while it's being built.

Right now, the part of our game that is the most "under construction" is post defense, so Self is going with known quantities at the other positions. When he integrates Selby, you can bet Reed / Brady will be out there to provide continuity and EJ will watch from afar.

If all four bigs were dependable and not so foul prone, then maybe Little would see some minutes at the 3 and he could start rebounding the way Rush did.

All in good time.

FairgroveJayhawk 11 years, 7 months ago

Has there every been a player like Brady who gets as much board rat time without being the direct headline?

Self has more wins than any other coach has ever had at any other D1 school in his first seven years with that school in NCAA history. I'm going with who he has on the court.

Martin Shupert 11 years, 7 months ago

The classy thing to do? There would be an investigation. What would you do if Little made a free throw anyway? Suspend the kid for winning the game? How would you handle the fans if they thought you intentionally lost a chance at winning the game? I can understand the idea, but this isn't Preschool Sunday School. That was the dumbest idea I have ever read. So, Bill Self tells Little to miss... then the replay clearly shows that he was, indeed shooting, and was fouled. What then, Einstein? You can't even figure out the fact that reality is defined within the perception of a referee... even when all the refs had the assistance of videotape replay??? wow. The idea that Self tells Little to throw it away is mind boggling insane. I would predict that, within a decade, such an act would lead to the breakdown to society as we know it. Referees would no longer be relevant. Wins and losses would no longer be tracked. The National Champion would be determined by who was the nicest coach with the prettiest shoes. OMG, it's already happened. They're here already! They're here already!

Martin Shupert 11 years, 7 months ago

There are only a few reasons why Brady plays. Defense, passing, and court sense. Other than that, he's average... I mean, give the kid a break. He's only our best defender on the perimeter. That's all. And he's only our best passer. That's all. And he only has the best idea of what it takes to help his team score, defend, get the ball to the right player, etc. He's also a very decent shooter. He's out there because no one can consistently beat him out. Pure and simple. Don't fault him. Fault the others who you think are better because they do less with more.

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