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Originally published April 1, 2015 at 10:19a.m., updated April 1, 2015 at 11:25a.m.

Kansas freshman Kelly Oubre Jr. decides to enter NBA Draft

Wing player to 'fulfill dream' by playing against 'best in the world'

Kansas guard Kelly Oubre Jr. (12) smiles at UNLV guard Rashad Vaughn (1) after a bucket during the first half on Sunday, Jan. 4, 2015 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas guard Kelly Oubre Jr. (12) smiles at UNLV guard Rashad Vaughn (1) after a bucket during the first half on Sunday, Jan. 4, 2015 at Allen Fieldhouse.

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Kansas University freshman wing Kelly Oubre, Jr., announced today that he will leave KU after one season to enter the 2015 NBA Draft.

Oubre, a 6-7 freshman from New Orleans, averaged 9.3 points off 44.4 percent shooting and 5.0 rebounds a game for the Jayhawks.

He is currently listed as the No. 13 overall pick — which is a lottery pick — in the June draft.

“I’m leaving the University of Kansas for the upcoming NBA Draft,” Oubre said. “It’s always been a dream to play in the NBA. This is an opportunity to play against the best in the world and expand my game in hopes of someday becoming one of those great players. It’s been a great year. I’ve been blessed to be here at the University of Kansas. I was blessed to go through the things that I went through and I was blessed to play for coach (Bill Self). He taught me a lot this year, the little things that will help out my game a lot.”

Oubre started 27 games for KU including the last 26 contests, missing only Senior Night as Jayhawk senior Christian Garrett replaced him against West Virginia.

“I talked with guys who have been in this situation before me and they told me different things," Oubre said. “JoJo (Joel Embiid) said he knows what I am going through and he told me his process and some of the things he went through. It’s definitely been a hard and tough decision and I've come to this conclusion.”

KU coach Self said: “This should come as really no surprise to anybody that has followed us. Kelly came in being well thought of by NBA personnel and certainly, nothing has changed in that regard. In the time he was here he’s been a great ambassador, a great teammate and, obviously, a very talented player.

“Kelly is an excellent student and going to fulfill his academic obligations this semester at KU," Self added. “At some point and time I am convinced that he will complete his degree because education is important to him and his family.”

Oubre said he enjoyed his one season at KU.

“The University of Kansas has always been behind me,” Oubre said. “This has been a great experience. It has felt like home since the first time I took my official visit. I wouldn't trade this situation and this time for anything in the world. I feel like I will always have a home I can come back to and I will always have people I can lean on. Getting my degree from Kansas will be the biggest accomplishment of my life, bigger than making it to the NBA,” Oubre added. “Having that degree is something you can look back on and say ‘I worked hard’ to earn that.

“I'll miss the different personalities in the locker room. We all gelled from the first time we were together. I’ll miss the coaches pushing us every day to be the best players we can be. Every time coach Self says something, it’s definitely something you need to work on. He's seen it. He’s seen it before, multiple, multiple times.”

Self said the Jayhawks were not caught off guard.

“On the surface this presents a void on our perimeter from last year but this is something we have known could happen for several months and we are prepared for it,” Self said. “I’m real excited about our players returning.”

— KU media relations contributed to this report

Comments

Luca Rossi 5 years ago

Congrats & Good Luck Kelly! Glad you chose to come to KU and will miss seeing you out on the court. Jayhawk for life.

John Fitzgerald 5 years ago

Thanks for your time Oubre! You've been a pleasure to watch and wish you the best of luck in the NBA. Rep the Jayhawks well. Svi, your time is now buddy!

Glen Miller 5 years ago

Well I think we all knew this would happen. He represented the name across his chest amazingly and contributed to our school in a big way. You could definitely tell he cared about winning. I wish him the best in the league!

Reggie Flenory 5 years ago

GO GET EM KELLY!!!!!!!!!! Rock chalk 4 life!!!!!

Walter Bridges 5 years ago

Rock Chalk 4 life!!!! Just not for 4 years!!!!

Mark Lindrud 5 years ago

And the first domino falls. Jaylen Brown, come on down! Good luck Kelly, and make us proud in the NBA. Now, we need to know what will happen to Cliff.

Craig Alexander 5 years ago

Good luck Kelly! Keep up your intensity and you will do well.

Doug Cramer 5 years ago

First of all, good luck to Oubre.

This is not a negative toward anyone, but Self needs to evaluate his recruiting.

Along with other 1 and dones we've had, these guys do not produce sufficient value to our program to only have them here for one year.

Instead we could use that year to develop other guys that WILL produce the type of value that will eventually get us into a final four, or potentially get us another national championship.

I just don't get it. It's easy to see that these types of players are hurting our program.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

I dont get how you let the multi-year players off Scott-free. After all, had they been producing the value that you say multiyears players provide, we would not have flamed out the last couple of years. After all, we are talking about a small percentage of turnover scholarshipwise (a couple a year). Thats the vast minority of the team. Sounds like the multi-year players arent getting it done, which makes the OAD objections much ado about nothing.

Bill Lamson 5 years ago

Totally agree about the need to re-evaluate recruiting...he was a great player, enjoyed watching him but how did his presence help our program? Nobody is talking about letting upperclassmen off 'scott-free', but exactly how many of our highly recruited, one and dones have contributed to deep tourney runs?? NONE. Selby, McLemore, Wiggins, Embiid, Henry...sure they were great players and high draft pics, but we haven't made ANY final fours with them. The results speak for themselves....and last time I checked, we don't hang any banners in Phog for 1st round draft picks.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

RE: "...exactly how many of our highly recruited, one and dones have contributed to deep tourney runs?? NONE.

Again, Ive seen this mistake a thousand times. When have we EVER had more than two OADs on the team at the same time? Youve got the rest of the team--the majority of your players--who are multi-year players. If they produced the value that people are arguing they give, we would have presumably made deeper runs. You cant pin the tail on the donkey when OADs occupy two schollies at most. In some years there have only been one! This is not a problem of OADs, because with the small percentage of scholarships they occupy continuity is not impeded. More than that, playing with gifted athletes helps others come along more quickly. This is a complete non-argument that, like weeds, has been allowed to grow roots. It's a non-issue.

Why are the multi-year players not pushing us to greater heights?

If we denied ourselves the instant offense and defense these players have provided, we'd be worse off...not better.

John Fitzgerald 5 years ago

I agree with you, Joe. Would you attest that the issue lies in the coaching? Whether in recruiting or skill coaching? Meaning, are we getting the right players and are they being trained and taught properly? I'm not insinuating that Self is the problem, but two years in a row, with talented teams, and Big 12 regular season titles, you'd think we would make it at least to the Sweet 16.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

I agree to a point, yes. I think people fail to realize that as intelligent and knowledgeable as Coach Self is (and I wouldnt trade him for ANYONE), there is a learning curve to everything. I mean, so what if it takes Coach some time to figure it out? I am not a person to castigate Bill Self based on his credentials and his performance at Kansas. He's earned the faith of the Faithful. At the same time I wont be dumb enough to think there is nothing for him to learn as the game changes. And yes! Which OADs to recruit is as important a consideration as how to coach them when theyre here. But again, I have no problem with Coach Bill Self AT ALL. There are probably about 5 Kansas fans anywhere that are worthy to tie his shoes, and I am not one of them.

Reggie Flenory 5 years ago

Joe Ross you are the man!!!!!!!!! Love you in site couldn't have said it better my self

Shane Johnston 5 years ago

You seem awfully dismissive about player development. For OADs, a small percentage of team scholarships is a larger proportion of team minutes. Players like Landen and Hunter are at a point where they need minutes to keep developing. They don’t have the same chance to develop that many OAD talents have. Continuity is impeded to the extent that OADs take minutes away from players who need game minutes to develop.

Multi-year players by definition can develop over multiple years. You seem to compare performance in one-year terms alone. Who’s to say Landen and Hunter couldn’t score 10 points a game if the minutes were there and Coach Self asked them score more…because he needed them to score more? Maybe it’s easier for them to score if we don’t have to water down the playbook. Maybe that also makes us more difficult to prepare for in a tournament with a two-day turnaround. I disagree with your “instant” offense and defense premise. There’s no reason we have to think about things on such a short timeframe.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

It is not logical to assume that because I argue against the exclusion of OADs that I am stating that the multi-year players have no purpose. Yours is a case of reading too much into my statements. As anyone here can attest, I have argued elsewhere the following two points that may, perhaps, surprise you: one, that I hate the OAD age-limit mandate; and two, that the involvement of multi-year players is absolutely crucial to the success of the team. Nevertheless, the OADs should not be scapegoated when role-players arent performing well. More to the point, teams must employ strategies that are effective within the paradigms in which they operate. Within the current context of college-level basketball, OADs can be extremely useful if you recruit the right ones and coach them effectively.

The problem with your statement that the role players need minutes to develop is tri-fold: 1. evidence suggests that many of them have been given minutes and are still not as efficient as the OADs. Jamari Traylor, for example, has been in the system for 3 years and in the uniform for 2. Yet he did not produce nearly as well as Kelly Oubre who evidently did not need as many minutes to develop. Two, there is nothing predestined in how long role players take to develop. And three, continuity is not disrupted.

Not all multi-year players are not created equal. Theyre not all cut from the same piece of cloth. Perry Ellis was contributing well at the end of his freshman season in a way that Jamari Traylor still hasnt. Both multi-year players. Both distinct with respect to each other in terms of their impact. We need the kind of multi-year players that are going to progress rapidly in the system, who dont need the kind of hand-holding you want to give them. Traditionally, freshman take a big leap forward in January of their freshman campaigns. This is in part due to the experience theyve gotten in the non-conference in combination with the unlimited practice time over winter break. It is also due in part to comfort level, with the player having made the psychological adjustment to the game. Why multiyear players need years and years in the system to pay dividends is beyond me. Would that all players were like Ellis, Ron Baker, and VanVleet. Sadly, this is not so for all multi-year players.

Furthermore, if a OAD is capable of coming in and producing immediately right out of the gate (recently, Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, et al) then you are forced to argue implicitly that multiyear players must somehow lack the ability to be as efficient, which is actually an argument against exclusion of the OADs (notice I didnt say, "...against the lesser inclusion of the multi-year players". They will get their time). But this is not a good argument on its face, because many multi-year players progress much faster than ones we've had on recent rosters.

Shane Johnston 5 years ago

Jamari is a good example to support your argument, but he is not the type of player I’m talking about. I’m talking about players like Landen and Hunter who are clearly multi-year players but who have not been given consistent rotation minutes. You only know that about Jamari because he’s had consistent minutes. Would Landen and Hunter develop at the same pace as Jamari if they had his minutes? You don’t know. And you certainly don’t know that at the time you recruit OAD players to play in front of Landen and Hunter. That’s the reason for my objection to your comparison between the value of multi-year players and OADs.

You say that “multiyear players need years and years in the system to pay dividends.” Which ones need 2 years and which need 4? With an OAD you commit to a peak in year 1. When you recruit Cliff, you don’t know whether Landen’s peak in year 2 will be higher than Cliff’s peak in year one. When you recruit Thorne, you don’t know whether his peak in year 1 will be higher than Landen’s peak in year 3. But you do know more about Landen’s peak in year 3 if you give him consistent minutes in year 2. His peak is higher because of it. You write about multi-year players as if their peaks are fixed, visible and independent of recruiting decisions from previous years. They’re not. Recruiting over multi-year players pushes the latters’ peaks downward or farther into the future. Sometimes you need consistent minutes to see where the peaks are and how long it will take to reach them.

To be clear, I’m not arguing against recruiting OADs. I’m arguing you can’t know whether the team is better off - especially over multiple years - if you recruit them. You can make an argument, but you don’t know.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

The ruination of your argument is the case of Jeff Withey. Stellar player. Even he didnt put up the kind of hypothetical numbers you want to suppose. Forget McLemore and Wiggins for the moment. Withey didnt even score as much as Oubre. He barely scored more than Alexander!

OADs are recruited for exactly this reason. They add instant offense and in most cases reliable defense.

Your assertion that "recruiting (of OADs) pushes multiyears players peaks downward" is baseless. If multiyear players are better, they will get the minutes over the OADs. Josh Selby rode the pines. Cliff Alexander rode the pines. Joel Embiid did not start until he got a comfort level with the game behind multiyear player Tarik Black.

With that in mind, there are stats which record performance of players. One CAN know if theyd be better or worse off by looking at the stats. Its not guesswork!

The argument fails on merit.

Shane Johnston 5 years ago

I think a better argument for recruiting potential OADs is that we've just been unlucky with turnover the last couple years. I would feel much better if we catch a few breaks that have largely been beyond our control. Say we have Embiid for two years as initially expected or that he doesn't get injured at the end of last year. Say Cliff's mom doesn't sign the loan paperwork, so he faces less pressure to declare. Say we lose to any other 7 seed in the tournament this year besides Wichita State. I'm not convinced that the frustration with OADs is really directed at OADs.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

Good, better, best. The best argument for recruiting a OAD, or for a multi-year player for that matter, is that they will come aboard and contribute effectively in a way that helps produce wins. This is, in fact, the only reason to recruit a player. Some OADs will fit this profile despite the misgivings of some.

Shane Johnston 5 years ago

Yes, winning is the bottom line, but it's not only about winning next year. If a player in his last year takes minutes away from a multi-year player, it affects the likelihood of winning the following year, too.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

I disagree. The model in the Bill Self era for multi-year players is to ride the pines behind other players until your time comes. Multi-year players were missing minutes before and after the OAD mandate...to other multi-year players! The list is too long to give you here. But suddenly if they lose minutes to a OAD then that affects their development? Naw, brah.

Shane Johnston 5 years ago

In my example, the OAD minutes reflect a tradeoff of less future wins for more present wins. In your example, no tradeoff. Both multi-year players will be around the following year.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

The problem with your example is that you dont know theres going to be a trade off. If you average the numbers for OADs and multiyear players, the OADs contribute to wins proportionally more than their counterparts. Additionally, there is no reason to suspect a trade off because OADs can be replaced with other OADs. If you argue, as you have, that we dont know what the development of the multiyear players would have been, I refer you to the stats of OADs vs. multiyears as above, which is the best and only tool you can use. Landen Lucas as a senior would never produce the numbers that Wiggins or McLemore did. Nor would Mickelson. Jeff Withey was a multiyear player who progressed well and even he didnt put up those kinds of numbers! The argument is lost!

Ken Tschetter 5 years ago

Didn't we make the Final Four and Championship game with McLemore? And I think you have to take Embiid off your list as he was injured and did not play in the tourney. Overall I think we should avoid having too many one and done players, but also can't be wihtout top talent. We need a solid base of 3-4 year players and add one or two OAD types for success.

Doug Cramer 5 years ago

Bill you hit the nail on the head. The proof is in the pudding.

Bottom line, recruit players that are going to add value to this blue blood program.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

If the proof is in the pudding, the multiyears are culpable.

Doug Cramer 5 years ago

Again Joe - it's Self's tendency to game plan around his one and dones. This is a fact, cause he himself (Self) says so all the time in his media interviews.

Walter Bridges 5 years ago

Joe, something I've always wondered...who is Scott and what did he get away with?

Also, on our two Final Four teams, were they made up with multi-year players or OADs?

Joe Ross 5 years ago

In all seriousness, I think it refers to Dred Scott...a runaway slave. He sued for his freedom at the Supreme Court and lost. Ironically, he did not get off "Scott free".

Interesting choice of teams to isolate when trying to make the case for excluding OAD players: one team in which we were only a season removed from the initiation of the age-limit manadate, and another in which our FF team was defeated by a OAD-laden Kentucky team. Interesting, indeed!

Walter Bridges 4 years, 12 months ago

No...it does not. The term 'scot free' doesn't originate from a person.

And yeah..selecting the two MOST successful teams in HCBS tenure makes the most sense.

Joe Ross 4 years, 12 months ago

I gave you my best guess. If you knew then why did you ask?

And what defines success in bygone times isnt going to be the recipe for success in the future. Nice try, though.

Allin Herring 4 years, 12 months ago

Not when you compare their playing time and value they have brought to the team. Give me some Butler or Wichita players before Oubre and Alexander which gave us little value

Kyle Sybesma 5 years ago

Doug - I'm curious of your opinion on Wayne Seldon. It was assumed that he was a one and done player. Before he played a game mock drafts had him projected as a mid first rounder but now it appears he'll be back for his junior year. I think most KU fans will say he's underacheived in his two years of "developing"

I personally don't see the one and done staying. I think Nate Silver (NBA Commish) wants to change that rule.

Bill Lamson 5 years ago

Selden actually also proves we shouldn't recruit OAD players. Why hasn't he improved? Because he's probably disappointed and feeling sorry for himself that he had to watch Wiggins and Embiid leave last year and make millions when he thought he'd be doing the same, (and I don't blame him, I'd probably feel the same) and this year he had to watch Kelly succeed and leave after one year. He came in thinking he was going to be gone after a year and when it was clear that wasn't going to happen his play dropped off and I'm guessing he stopped working as hard as he should. Like Kelly I enjoy watching Wayne play, I think he can be an incredible player, but it just shows the flip side of the OAD players...when things don't work out the way they were hoping you run the risk that they lack the maturity and determination to put in the hard work in college, every day, to become better players.

Max Ledom 5 years ago

Bill you couldn't be more wrong. Selden hurt his draft stock by staying. On his potential alone last year he would have bene drafted first round. Potential lottery. He stayed, didn't improve and now he has to work really hard for his draft stock. He is the biggest argument for one and dones. Not because of injury, but because if they have an off year, their draft spot will be replaced by another freshman in the draft. Not because they are better, but because they haven't shown they will decline instead of improve.

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

Bill offers amazing insights into the thought process of elite athletes. Good players don't motivate other players to be better, they cause them to sulk and feel sorry for themselves rather than fully developing their game. Sorry Bill, but this loser mentality has nothing to do with the mindset of any of the athletes that have pushed themselves to develop their game even to the level that would allow them to be recruited and play for Coach Self.

Len Shaffer 5 years ago

Hear, hear, Dirk!!! It's amazing how many brilliant people there are out there who can tell us exactly what's going on inside someone else's head.

Andy Tweedy 5 years ago

That's the same question I've been asking. It's easy to say you want someone that can develop, but how many fans are willing to have the patience to let it happen? I think Wayne has gotten better and he's as good or better than most sophomores that have been in the program for 3 or 4 years, but he gets blasted in these threads all the time for underacheiving. You can't have it both ways.

Doug Cramer 5 years ago

J-Ross - Self has attempted to build his team around the 1 and dones.

Last year it was Wiggins. Then it was Beed. Beed got hurt and then we were in trouble.

Before that it was Josh Selby. Well we know how that worked out. Before that it was Xavier Henry. We know how that worked out too.

Imagine all the playing time, experience, and maturity that would accumulate if you had 3-4 year players getting Wiggin's, Beed's, and Oubre's playing time the last couple of years.

Stop trying to game plan for the 1 and done's, and lets get back to developing guys committed to the program.

To prove my point J-Ross. Self had his two WORST seasons in a row these last two years...25-10 and 27-9...with early 2nd round flameouts in the post season.

Why ? Why did this happen ? Well everyone says it's because we're young and inexperienced. I agree with that...so lets get back to developing guys committed to KU...so we're not young every single year.

Rob Bedford III 5 years ago

One of the 4 year players who is a starter is largely responsible for the flameouts.

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

Christian Garrett? Isn't he the only 4 yr player?

Rob Bedford III 5 years ago

Selden is the starter I was referring to. He will be here 4 years as he has turned out to be an average player. He needs to come off the bench next year.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

Your first point is off. Bill Self himself would object to your assertion. He wants most of his players as multiyears, sprinkling in a couple of OADS. Im not guessing. Those are his words. That is not the same as building a team "around OADs". All the players you mentioned added more value to the team than the majority of multiple year players with the notable exception of Josh Selby.

Again you talk about Self's two worst seasons. In both of those seasons he had exactly two players on the team who could be classified as OADs at the start of the season. You NEVER speak of the role of the multi-year players you argue for in terms of how they contribute to a "flame out".

If you took the schollies away from the OADs that were here and given them to non-OAD players, and if those players produced the average of the rest of the multi-year players, there is no intelligent argument that you could make that would see our performance increasing. None.

Two schollies at most. It makes zero sense.

Laura Wilson 5 years ago

In the last two seasons, for most of the season, 40% of our starters have been OADs. It's been quite obvious to me that playing together just a few months makes it very difficult to develop a team. Because of the emphasis on the OAD's playing time, other kids haven't had a chance to develop again as a team. Hopefully they won't all pull a Frankamp and bolt after one season. In years past we've had NBA players who have stayed two, three, even four years, playing together as a TEAM. If Wiggins had stayed this year, if Embid hadn't been hurt and/or stayed and recovered, what could have team might we have been? Look at Frank Mason, there's a heck of lot of experience to be gained between one year and two. Look at 1988 and where we would have been without four year NBA future player, Danny Manning? Not with a championship banner hanging from our rafters.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

Youre missing the obvious Laura.

They start because theyre better. Coach's decision.

Being "better" is defined as the player(s) who give(s) us the best chance to win the game.

And just because you start doesn't mean youre not going to get in the game and have a chance to impact the game and the team. All of these arguments are non-sensical.

You refer to a bygone era when everyone played on a level playing field. Thats the first mistake. Theres competition for OADs now because the game has changed. If you dont change with it you get left behind. The other glaring error you make is by not recognizing that kids entering college today are much more advanced than at the time Danny matriculated. There are reasons for that, some of which include increased competition in the AAU circuit, the fact that many kids are playing basketball at an earlier age, that there are youth basketball camps kids are increasingly being sent to to hone skills, and that today's young prospects are modeling their games on what they see on the national scale. Comparing to 1988 when Ronald Reagan was president is really not the best way to compare, and that's putting it generously.

Eric TheCapn 5 years ago

YOU are missing Laura's point, Joe. It's like you wrote it off without reading it, and it's a valid one. Yes, the OAD's are initially better, but then they're gone, and the guys who are with the program aren't allowed to develop because of the OAD's. So no, you can't find them culpable. They need to develop, but they aren't allowed to.

Let's say you have 2 guys who are 8/10s, but are gone after a year. Then you have two 6/10s with a lot of potential and who are going to be there four years. You play the two 8/10s, they aren't good enough to get things done, plus the 6s didn't get any playing time because you had these two NBA prospects giving free advertising to the NBA, but taking Kansas less far than anyone would like.

Now your 6/10s are still 6/10s because they didn't get the experience, and you have to fight to find two more 8/10s every year to start the cycle over again. Your 6s don't get to progress to be 8s, 9s, and 10s. Your 1-year 8s will never be 9s and 10s (MAYBE 1 in 10 years).

Replacing our starters every year ironically makes us stagnant.

It's OK to listen to others' opinions.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

Yes, its OK to listen to others' opinions. It's OK to disagree with them as well.

Her objections have been regarded...and dismissed.

Her point was not lost on me. Specifically, she asserted that progress of multiyear players was stunted because of playing time. I directly addressed this error when I said,

"just because you start doesn't mean youre not going to get in the game and have a chance to impact the game and the team. All of these arguments are non-sensical."

Multiyear players are NOT impeded because of OADs. This is a baseless assertion. It's wrong, flatly. As is your scenario. Its not about disrespect, its about what is true and what isnt. Thats all.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

Oh and for the record, there has almost never been a case where the starting lineup hasnt changed from year to year. Starters get replaced all the time. This was true even before the age limit mandate. Not even you would have argued that position prior to 2006.

People make arguments, many of which would not make since outside of the context of OADs. But they get created nevertheless, hitched to the OAD era as if there is some supposed connection, and try to get passed off with credibility. It makes no sense. It's okay to listen to my opinion! LOL (The jab is made in jest...not personal)

Phil Leister 5 years ago

Alright Doug, so let's say Bill adopts your strategy in recruiting. Give us some guidelines here. Is there a ranking above which Bill should stop recruiting? Say, the top 20 recruits in any given class, Bill should never attempt to recruit? Should he consult with NBA people about which high school seniors are projected lottery picks and then not recruit just those guys?

As an aside, when we were first in on JoJo, he was unranked. No one knew who he was. As soon as the final HS rankings came out, and JoJo became well known, and people began to see that he'd be an NBA player at a young age, should Bill have quit recruiting him? I see what you're saying about wanting to get guys who will be here for multiple years, but it's not so cut and dry.

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

Doug - You list the last 2 seasons as the WORST seasons in a row because of the records and early tourney losses.

And having the toughest schedule in the nation (by a long shot at least 1 year) had nothing to do with the record.

And losing your starting center, plus an injury to the other half of the front court had nothing to do with the tourney losses?

Everyone doesn't say it happens because we're young and inexperienced.

Keith Gellar 5 years ago

Dirk, i think its high time we can the "toughest schedule" talk. I'm tired of listening to this garbage.

Its proven again the BIG 12 is way way way overrated and has just become a running excuse now. Instead on focusing on areas to improve, we keep on reverting back to "toughest schedule" talk.

Here's a thought- No one's putting a gun to Self's head to schedule these games. As long as he is voluntarily scheduling these games, we have no right to say we couldn't do X/Y/Z because of our "Tough schedule" (which turns out wasn't really that tough because the BIG 12 sucks)

Cody Riedy 5 years ago

I've posted this elsewhere, but I still don't think people comprehend that we wouldn't have a bunch of other 4 year players had we not signed any OADs. For example, had Self signed a 4-year player instead of Embiid, we would not have had Embiid, Alexander, or Bragg now, because that one scholarship that Self was able to use on Embiid and then recycle for Alexander and then Bragg would still be occupied by that same 4-year player. So, in a 4-year period you can either spend one scholarship on a 4-year guy and hope he develops or you can use that 1 scholarship 4 consecutive times on an OAD.

Eric TheCapn 5 years ago

Taking a guy who would be a 6/10, then 8/10 (improving after getting real playing time), then 8/10, then 9/10 is better than three different guys whose contribution is worth 7/10 at most each year in my book.

Added Bonus You get to feel good about these players playing and improving at your school, representing it with love, and proving that your coach can develop talent and not just recruit, which he's certainly very good at.

But really the NCAA just needs to push back and work with the NBA to make it (1) stay two years (or play two years abroad), or (2) stay two years or go straight out of high school. But I'm not kidding myself. The NCAA only makes decisions out of money, not the interests of schools or student-athletes,

Rodney Crain 5 years ago

I am with Joe on this one Doug.

With the transfer rule the way it is, the one and done rule, international players, and shoe contracts the concept of the how to put together a team in College is now more fluid than at any other time in its history. For a coach it must be very challenging to try to put together a team each year.

High profile names on your team, transfer into lottery picks, which mean all players on your team are seen by scouts throughout the year. Most of the mid ranked players you are talking about having dreams of playing professionally, if not the NBA, overseas. The water in the lake rises with the addition of a few OAD players. Not to mention they are the best players on the team, they give you a better chance to win games.

I would like to see OAD changed, but there a lot of changes that need to take place in the college game and this is just one of them. The game is trending to lower scoring and defense in my mind. OAD is not the most pressing issue.

Doug Cramer 5 years ago

Rodney - proof is in the pudding. Take an observation of how experienced and mature WSU players performed defensively against Oubre. He couldn't do anything, he wasn't strong enough to be effective against dudes that had experience and maturity for college basketball. He wasn't skilled enough to be affective.

Self's coaching style isn't Callipari. Not saying that he isn't as good of a coach. But Self's overall program isn't working with 1 and dones.

Rodney Crain 5 years ago

I disagree Doug. He did not play a good game, singular. Their guards gave a lot of people issues. The tournament as a whole throughout histroy is upperclassman gaurds carrying teams. Our team as whole, was off. If your point held water Traylor, a junior would have played better against their big men, who were not known for their prowess. He did not. He does not have the talent, even though he has been in our system for 4 years! I will take a KO over a 3/4 year talent like Traylor every year. At least KO had the ability to compete.

You cannot go back in time, developing your own talent by itself does not work. Its a pipe dream. In todays game you need a mix. Like it or not the only teams that take 3-4 years to develop players are the ones that have to. You can count on one hand the teams that want to, and KU thankfully is not one of them.

Keith Gellar 5 years ago

totally agree! Self needs to quit trying to be Calipari 2.0. The whole one and done thing is a trend that will pass.

I'm not saying "say NO to one and dones" but quit chasing them at the expense of other talent. This is Kansas...kids should want to come here to play, we don't need to go and convince a kid to come here. There are plenty of top 100 players who would jump to KU at the drop of a hat. hell...get kids from Kansas.

Shannon Gustafson 5 years ago

If he was trying to be Calipari 2.0 he'd have 6+ McD All-American's every year and 7-10 potential NBA players every year. Bill isn't trying to do this, never has done this, and hasn't indicated he has any desire to ever do this.

John Boyle 5 years ago

Its just goofy to say Self is trying to be Calipari 2.0. Cal tries to fill his whole roster with top ten recruits and win with talent alone. Self is trying to "coach" kids to get better but you can't just turn your back on 5 star studs that have the potential to help you immediately. Besides it won't be long before they find out Cal paid kids relatives or gave some other inappropriate benefits and he will leave and the program with vacate wins (except it is Kentucky and they have been able to dodge the bullet no matter what violations they have).

Tom Jones 5 years ago

It's a silly argument. Self recruits both types of players. Without these one and dones, The Streak would be over and every team that had a one and done (aside from the 2011 team,as Selby contributed nothing) would have been significantly worse. In some cases, like last year or the year before, probably 3-4 seed lines worse minimum. Last year KU would have been in the middle of the conference w/o the one and dones they had.

Recruiting is not an exact science, but this year will be an upperclassman-led team, so you'll get your wish, anyway. Self doesn't need to change the formula. It would be nice if he could get some of these guys to stay another year, though, as Calipari has been lucky to have. But you just never know how high a guy's stock will go or how he'll react.

Phil Leister 5 years ago

"It's a silly argument". Exactly.

Keith Gellar 5 years ago

he does, but he obviously gives preference to one and dones. Look at embiid...had he gone for WCS instead, we may very well have made it to a FF.

Andy Tweedy 5 years ago

When Self got his verbal from Joel, I'm quite sure few people expected him to be a one and done...it just worked out that way.

Tom Jones 5 years ago

It's easy to say that after Embiid blew up and then got hurt, ruining last year's and hurting this year's chances of going far in the tournament. But it's incorrect to label that as a mistake by the coaching staff.

John Boyle 5 years ago

Keith, Self recruited Ellis instead of Willie Cauley at the time. Embiid didn't come along until later. And Ellis was ranked higher than Willie Cauley the entire time for the state of KS until Ellis committed to KU then Willie Cauley jumped to number 1 ranking in KS. The rankings do that so they draw more interest in the uncommitted guys.

Ben Simonett 5 years ago

Whohad more impact on this years team Kelly Oubre or the Jamari Traylor/Landen Lucas/Brennan Greene multi year players?

Bville Hawk 5 years ago

The 4 year player that everyone forgets about is the flame-out that was Nadir Tharpe. Experienced guards are a big key to winning games in the NCAA tournament and he would have been a junior this season. Devonte was good this year, but I can't help but think that another year older Nadir would've been better.

Karen Holmes 5 years ago

Sadly not an April Fool's joke.

Thanks, Kelly, for never giving up and making yourself a better player and person.

God bless you in your next phase of life.

Ryan Mullen 5 years ago

I am so proud to call Kelly a Jayhawk. This is a mistake for him though. He never asserted himself as a dominant player. He was way to passive (which happens way to much for one and done's under Self). He needs to develop a killer instinct, that will never come in the league. Ben Mclemore is still struggling with this very thing.

Kyle Sybesma 5 years ago

Based on the way the NBA drafts its players he MUST go. Kelly is a projected lottery pick. His stock will never be higher. He can only hurt his position by returning.

Jason Hiatt 5 years ago

Then it makes no sense to recruit guys like him....OAD's do not translate towards success w HCBS....

Joe Joseph 5 years ago

I disagree that he could only hurt his position by returning. If Oubre's a fringe lottery pick, he could make himself a sure top-10 pick or better by having a good season next year. Given the fact that Oubre's numbers were greatly impacted by his lack of PT (from early in the season) and the fact that he can shoot the ball pretty well, the chances of him putting up better numbers next year is quite likely.

I agree, however, with the notion that he should go pro. I will never fault a guy for leaving when he's a guaranteed first rounder. I'd challenge anyone to turn down millions of dollars, especially when you've experienced the poverty that many of these players and their families have.

Joe Joseph 5 years ago

Smart was never a great shooter. That's a skill that can be difficult to make strides in. Plus, Smart was already responsible for a heavy portion of his team's production his freshman year. Kelly was not.

You are right that Smart hurt his draft status by returning for his sophomore year, but he was already playing at close to his ceiling. I'm also unsure of where he was predicted to go in the draft. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Kelly's potential for improving his draft status by returning for another year is greater than what Smart's potential was. Bias, I know.

Bottom line is: I agree that Kelly should leave.

Kyle Sybesma 5 years ago

Joe - He could rise but at what risk. I don't know the pay scale of the top 10 picks of the NBA draft but while he's playing for KU he's missing out on $2-3 million. If he rises he may get a little more but if he falls he could miss out on guaranteed money.

These players want to get the clock started on their first contract so they can get to their 2nd contract which is the big money contract. IF they have success.

John Pritchett 5 years ago

Right. The fault is with the NBA's practice of drafting on potential rather than on proven skill, not with the players who take advantage of the opportunities provided to them.

Joe Joseph 5 years ago

I'd like to reiterate that I support Kelly turning pro and that it is in his best interests to leave. I've said that multiple times now. But the potential for him increasing his draft stock definitely exists and is greater than probably a lot of others entering the draft.

Greg Ledom 5 years ago

Completely agree with your last sentence JJ. That is the bottom line for kids leaving these days and quite frankly, makes complete sense. I sure as hell wouldn't turn it down.

Bill Kackley 5 years ago

Poverty? How much do those tat's cost?

Tom Jones 5 years ago

His stock could absolutely be higher, but still can't fault him for going.

Rodney Crain 5 years ago

Ryan the goal is to get drafted in the first round, the earlier the better. Regardless get the guaranteed contract. He can get that now. He has to take his chance no matter what we think. This is the plan for players of his caliber.

I support his decision, it makes sense.

Ryan Mullen 5 years ago

Not always about the first contract. Shouldn't players be concerned about doing well in the NBA.

Rodney Crain 5 years ago

Ryan it is all about the first contract. I fear you do not know how important having a guarantee is. With it you get the time to develop, or at the very worst you make enough money to reset your goals. Without a 1st round contract you are in the air. You have to make every team every time. Even for a four year seasoned college player this is not easy to do.

There is no assurance he will be a better player by staying in college. You can not guarantee he will no matter what you think. If he goes now, he will be drafted in the first round. Staying is in the best interest of KU and their fans, going, as bitter sweet as it is, knowing he is a first round pick, is his best option today. Do players stay sure, look at Marcus Smart, is it always the best move, rarely.

Robin Smith 5 years ago

McLemore is doing well and progressing nicely.

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

And getting played millions in the process.

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

There were plenty of games when Kelly asserted himself driving and making close shots or going to the line. Could there be more? Sure. Unfortunately, there have also been multi-year players that have not stepped up to assert themselves, tho it's not nearly as convenient to think about them when you can blame the best players on the team.

Eliott Reeder 5 years ago

Ummm... yes, Ben Mac is still struggling to find assertiveness and a cut-throat gamer mentality, but I imagine Ben's struggle is a little bit easier living in a beautiful condo with a personal chef and zero obligations toward classes or homework and the strength, conditioning, and skill coaches that are provided by the Sacramento Kings. Just saying. The argument that ANY potential lottery player should stay in college is just plain dumb.

Linda Urish 5 years ago

We'll miss you, Kelly... But, I understand. We will be following you in the NBA! Don't forget your promise to finish your degree at Kansas University! RCJH!

Bville Hawk 5 years ago

Wow, Linda. Almost 5 hours since you posted and no one has dissed you for writing Kansas University instead of University of Kansas.

Scott Callahan 5 years ago

"We all gelled from the first time we were together"

You can't gel with a team in one season. That's the whole problem. Good riddance, pretty boy.

Joe Joseph 5 years ago

How many hours a week do those guys spend together from the time they arrive on campus to the end of the school year? I'd be willing to bet that it's enough time for a team to "gel."

John Pritchett 5 years ago

Why do I love sarcasm so much? It's an ugly vice...

Robin Smith 5 years ago

Scott, you can escort yourself out of here.

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

I was thinking (hoping) "Good riddance" also - to Scott and the rest of the entitled whiners.

Allison Steen 5 years ago

Pretty boy?? I am running out of patience with KU fans like you. Players who leave early will ALWAYS be jayhawks and family of KU. You can criticize his play, but actually insulting players ain't cool.

Eliott Reeder 5 years ago

"He a pretty dude." - Cliff Alexander, in reference to Kelly Oubre, prior to their arrival on campus.

Allison Steen 5 years ago

Except that wasn't what Scott was saying. He is a very pretty dude, though! Selden's eyes though..ok i'll stop!

Don Burgundy 5 years ago

How dumb does that make you look insulting a 18-19 year old kid who gave his all to the university. Does doing that make you feel like a big man? People like you are an embarrassment to this fanbase.

Aaron Paisley 5 years ago

There's a difference between on court chemistry and off court chemistry.

Ross Hartley 5 years ago

I wish Kelly the best of luck & thank him for his only year of college play. One and done is the present state of the art in NCAA basketball and we need to compete. Kentucky is built on this theory & got lucky this year with some staying for a second year. But, they'd never been in position to capitalize if they did not recruit in the one and done concept. Every one of our men that get drafted adds immensely to the prestige of our program and helps give us a path to recruiting multiple McD s every year. Ben is finally making a name, Andrew is an unbelievable walking KU billboard and Joel has a great chance of doing so. I don't see how anyone can question the value these great young men have on our program.

Severeno Woods 5 years ago

Damn it. Good player great kid. I was hoping to see him grow one more year as a player at Kansas. He will be great in the NBA.

Clarence Haynes 5 years ago

Good luck Kelly! Makes us even more proud of you and make some duckets! Also like the idea of you coming back for your degree!

Harlan Hobbs 5 years ago

As I said the other day, until a Bill Self team fails to win the Big 12 conference championship, all this flap about recruiting is wasted energy. Recruit the best players you can and supplement with the longer term players who make up the majority of the team.

Glad for Kelly. Now lets use that slot to get a bona fide center, unless of course we can get Jaylen Brown. Furthermore, Alexander is as good as gone, so we should have at least another available scholarship.

As for the comment about Kelly's play against WVU, the experience of WVU sure didn't have much luck with the one and dones from Kentucky, did it?

As for the proof in the pudding, Kentucky will probably end this season having two national championships and one runner up in the last four years using primarily one and dones. At least they represent a much larger portion of their team than they do at KU.

Finally, Embiid was recruited as a project. However, his improvement was so dramatic that he ended up being a one and done.

Ben Simonett 5 years ago

Conference championships are you standard? So you'd be perfectly fine not making another final four indefinitely as long as Self wins the conference?

i'd trade the conference streak for the number of final fours izzo and callipari have made the last 11 years anyday

Allison Steen 5 years ago

I'm trying to find somewhere in his comment where he said he's cool with never getting to a final four or having success in March. There is nothing wrong with our talent, some top 10 kids are insane, and some don't completely pan out. Self is doing a nice job recruiting, and if he wasn't, he wouldn't win the big 12 constantly. That is their point. We went to the national championship THREE years ago.

Ben Simonett 5 years ago

"until a Bill Self team fails to win the Big 12 conference championship, all this flap about recruiting is wasted energy."

seems to imply as long as he keeps winning the conference we can ignore the fact that Callipari and Izzos recruiting strategies are producing better results than Self

John Boyle 5 years ago

Including this year, Izzo has been to exactly one more final four than Self has been to since 2006. Although that is better it isn't earth shattering.

Ben Simonett 5 years ago

2006 is a arbitrarily chosen year in order to make the comparison look closer then it is. why don't you do the less manipulated comparison and compare both coaches performance over the time self has been at KU

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

Ben - You're retort fails when you mention Cal, since he is the poster child, err, neon billboard for 1-n-dones.

Ben Simonett 5 years ago

Yup, Callipari uses OADs. and hes been a heck of alot more successful then Self has doing it

Bryce Landon 5 years ago

Amen! Winning the conference was the standard in the Ted Owens era. If that is the standard again now, then our program is going in the wrong direction, and only a coaching change can turn it around.

Fire Bill Self!

Keith Gellar 5 years ago

Fans like Harlan is what's wrong with KU. i've said it before- as long as fans are satisfied with winning Big 12 conf, there will never be any pressure for bill to perform better => get used to early tourney flameouts.

or maybe i'm retarded that i consider making it to FF or winning the NC a higher achievement than BIG 12 streak. clearly i'm in the minority. After all, the recruits care about the streak and give a rats ass about winning the NC.

Greg Ledom 5 years ago

I wish your post deserved more time for me to respond than writing this sentence but it doesn't, so I'm out.

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

Maybe you are retarded, but it has more to do with your own reading comprehension than what Harlan or anyone else considers about FF & NC.

Allison Steen 5 years ago

Side note, I'm pretty sure self gives zero sh*t what fans are satisfied with. You think HE is satisfied with losing in the round of 32 two years in a row? NO.

Bryce Landon 5 years ago

He should give a $#!+, because we the fans are the reason KU basketball is as popular as it is. Without us, there's no reason to field a team or for him to make millions. But after two underachieving seasons, he should take a pay cut. Or better yet, he should be replaced with someone who can actually motivate and coach.

Mark Lindrud 5 years ago

The OAD debate will continue until it gets changed as much as I see both arguments we have to get the best talent to win. Every year we get excited when we hear that 1 or 2 of our players is a McDonald's All-American because that means we got the best talent coming in, and I for one support this because I want the best talent.

The problem is 1/4 of these players yearly are OAD type players, and want to play together because as we have read, they recruit one another to play college ball together. Does this mean we stop recruiting these guys? No, because we want the best talent, but I can see recruiting the players who don't have the goal of being a OAD, but the risk is always going to be there.

This is why we need a mix of the potential early draftees and the players that Self likes to develop for 3-4 years on the team. To say we should just avoid the potential OAD type players is a bit rash because often times those kids will be that special player that we need, unless an upper classman has taken the reigns like Ellis. For us, it is a fluid situation that can change from year to year, and Self has to be on the lookout for the best talent to win. If there was a perfect solution, then we would have found it and have gone undefeated yearly, but that is not the case.

Robin Smith 5 years ago

Thank you for your time at Kansas, Kelly. You were fun to watch and I will be rooting for your success at the next level. Looking forward to seeing where you land.

Eric TheCapn 5 years ago

Keith motherflipping LANGFORD tho! <3

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

Or imagine if Jojo, or Perry doesn't get injured, or Cliff's mom doesn't get impatient.

William Weissbeck 5 years ago

This basketball thing is a tough nut to crack. We forget that the '08 title might have been out of reach but for the fact that Rush's knee injury forced him to stay. Beed was supposed to be a "project" and somewhat a risk. Imagine if he were here and healthy. Reed and Morningstar were competent players, but a quicker, defense minded guard probably would have saved us with VCU, and an earlier press might have taken care of UNI. What I see missing is team chemistry and character. Collins had limitations in size, but he made the team play better. We know that was Tharpe's shortcoming. It's hard to say whether this is coaching or recruiting. Maybe the players we miss out on are the missing piece, and then Self has to settle for another 4-5 star recruit, but one who isn't the leader type. I don't want to knock Ellis, but he doesn't show the fire that the other Kansas boys at KSU and WSU from his same class, display.

Bryce Landon 5 years ago

Self's recruiting is suspect at best these days. Just like his coaching.

Fire Bill Self!

David Lara 5 years ago

Fire your brain. It's doing a piss poor job as well.

Gerry Butler 5 years ago

Good luck Kelly, was really glad to have you here, you will always be a part of the Jayhawk family, come home anytime.I don't blame Kelly, lie others and coach Self stated this surprises no one. Or at least it not surprise anyone, you have to look at this from Kelly's stand point, he is a projected lottery and believe it or not this is going to be not only his dream, but also his job for the future as we all have jobs, only thing is he will get big money for his job AND getting to live his dream. So does Kelly go now with the projected lottery pick and take the money? or does he come back to KU for another year? for what? taking the chance that he may improve? no guarantee of that maybe have even not as good of a year, return and take a chance of a major injury? a career ending injury and then NEVER have to chance to fulfill his life dream of playing in the NBA? never getting the chance to be paid well? just so he can return to KU for another year? I think you have to respect Kelly decision, look at it from his side instead of some who are spoiled and just have selfish reasons for wanting Kelly or any one and done to return. I mean come on, this decision should not surprise anyone, we knew this coming in that he was only going to be here for 1 year. I know the majority are happy for you Kelly, and I say THANK YOU and nothing but the best, make us proud. good luck. ROCK CHALK

Joe Ross 5 years ago

One thing that never gets mentioned in this silly OAD debate is that if you go for guys who are in the 20-50 range, when they commit to Kansas their stock goes up and so they can now be in the conversation for OADs. Thats just how it happens at Kansas. Tom said it correctly above when he said recruiting is not an exact science.

Here's an idea, to successfully avoid the OADs in all this shifty science mumbo jumbo, lets start recruiting guys outside of the top 100. No need to visit the rivals site then. Oops. Theres the Rivals 150, so we'd better recruit outside of that.

Silly.

Rodney Crain 5 years ago

I agree where does it end Joe. Personally I would love to see us get 2-3 a year from the top 75 on up, develop a few, 1 or 2 leave a year for the NBA.

This could be a nice mix and give us the talent to compete with anyone.

I would like to see us develop PGs to be here 4 years though, we need solid play there to run the offense, and get further in the NCAA tourny.

Tom Jones 5 years ago

2-3 a year from the top 75 on up? LOL You do know Joe was kidding, riiiight?

And whaddya know? Bill already has two four year point guards in the mix. Mission accomplished.

Rodney Crain 5 years ago

Sorry I cannot reply, enabling you is a mistake.

Mike Riches 5 years ago

Or just have our Men's Lacrosse team take the court, they will most likely stay all four years, and while we may not win any more conference championships, we may set a record for most fouls in a season. Wait, never mind, West Virginia is still out there...

Mark Lindrud 5 years ago

The fact remains until the OAD rule gets changed, the way recruiting is done will not change. The NBA collective bargaining agreement cannot make a change on this until the 2017 season when it expires. I have heard that Commissioner Silver wants to move it to 2 years, but we shall see if, and how that happens because I can see them moving this similar to the basketball rule of getting drafted or having to stay 2 years, but for now there is no point in complaining and asking for change in how we recruit because we are only doing what everyone else does. We have won 11 straight Big 12 titles, and I honestly think if the streak gets broken doing this type of recruiting, then the way we recruit will change. Until then, root for us getting the best players and root for us to be successful because it is, what it is.

Todd Hudnall 5 years ago

I hope this will end the speculation on Brannen and Svi leaving. Both will now have the opportunity for plenty of playing time next year and both have NBA potential. What we need is another big man.

The very best to Kelly in his future. He was an exciting player who represented Kansas very well! Once a Jayhawk, always a Jayhawk.

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

It's a shame there is that speculation anyway, but it will rev up all the more when Coach pulls out a prime recruit or 2 late in the process like he has consistently over the past few years. 7 of the elite '15's having been waiting to see how the decisions of all this year's "Kelly" change team make-up.

Larry Renbarger 5 years ago

Isn't a one-and-done already a pro?

Though the colleges don't pay them a "wage", they do pay for just about everything else for the oads.The people in charge at the colleges are just giving money to people who have no intention of graduating and bringing educational glory to the school? I do. That's all we heard all year, O'bre is a one and done. So it's no longer a scholorship, it's pay for one year of basketball. And it was a lousy year for the oad. He barely made average stats. In a couple years, he could be king. Now, if the pros consider his total lack of contribution to the team for the last half of the year, he's going to drop out of lottery and end up playing in Europe for peanuts.

Dear coach, your best teams were mostly seniors with 4 years of maturity. Forget the OADs. They take up too much of your time and effort and energy and NONE of them have helped us take the trophy. How many oads in our last championship team? NONE!

Ben Simonett 5 years ago

The OAD debate is missing the crucial point. Callipari is succesfful with OADs, Izzo is successful with the 3-4 year development players. The key issue is BOTH of those coaches are having more success then Selfs seemingly hybrid approach. It doesnt matter which strategy the coaching staff switches too, it just has to switch to one of them because the current approach isnt working

Omari Miller 5 years ago

I think part of our culture in Jayhawk Nation is resistant to the notion of one-and-dones. We want players to be a part of the experience for more than basically a few months... me included. But I think we too often yoke the blame on the one-and-dones.

Who produced more this year? Selden or Oubre? Which upperclassmen contributed more to the team down the stretch than Wiggins last year?

Our problem isn't that we tend to have one-and-dones that don't contribute. Our problem is that we've missed contribution for the seasoned players and have missed pieces. Perhaps if we had more one-and-dones, we would have done better. Would you take two, healthy Joel Embiids or two Kevin Youngs. Elijah Johnson plus Nadiir Tharpe or Two Andrew Wiggins?

I don't want to see KU go the way of Kentucky and do nothing but land one-and-dones to fill a roster that turns over each year... but if we're talking about on-court performance, UK ain't bad, right? And more to my point, I think if we look at the teams that have lost, we'll see that there were a bunch of upperclassmen who failed to perform, even when the OADs did.

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

The only upperclassman last year was also a 1-n-done (Black), but I agree with your overall thought.

Zeik Montellioso 5 years ago

I hate seeing kids leave too early (in my opinion) to the NBA, but I've grown to accept it, and understand it's the best decision for them.

Best of luck Kelly. I really enjoyed watching you play as a Jayhawk.

Russ McCaig 5 years ago

Good luck, Oubre! Hope to see you flashing in and throwing it down like Wiggs is currently doing.... Thanks for your time as a Jayhawk..

Dirk Medema 5 years ago

Can you imagine how many heads would have exploded if we would lose in the 1st round of the NIT to say a Robert Morris?

Phil Leister 5 years ago

Right???

I'm happy to be a KU fan. We're a (near) top 10 team every single season. We're always in contention, to say the least, to win the Big 12. We don't go to the NIT, as you mentioned about Kentucky. Look at UConn. National champion last year, not in the tourney this year. Winning the NCAA tourney is tough, but we've managed it once in the Bill era. Have we ever had a true down season under Bill, a la Kentucky, or UConn, or Arizona? No. And I'm happy about that.

Bryce Landon 5 years ago

Since we won the 2008 national title, UConn has won it twice. Kentucky has won it once and is about to win it again. Other bluebloods are getting ahead of us and we are spinning our wheels. Coach Self is allowing the program to stagnate just like Rick Barnes did at Texas.

Fire Bill Self!

Scott Callahan 5 years ago

So I guess to be welcome here you have to be a Smiley Gladhands who agrees with all the other drones. Well, I don't. KU honored one player on Senior Night. One. A walk-on. That's a problem that clearly explains itself.

Allison Steen 5 years ago

No one is asking you to agree with everyone, there are plenty of people on here that disagree with each other. Just do it with a little class and dignity.

Bryce Landon 5 years ago

I feel you, Scott. Everyone thinks I'm an idiot for wanting Bill Self held accountable for his NCAA Tournament underachievement and for wanting someone better to coach the Jayhawks.

Michael Lorraine 5 years ago

Just for the record Bryce, I gave you the thumbs up. I agree, you are an idiot.

Bryce Landon 5 years ago

Yeah, you and all the liberal group-thinkers in Lawrence who have zero tolerance for alternate points of view.

Michael Lorraine 5 years ago

Sorry Bryce, it was a cheap shot but I could not resist. Please tell me you can not be serious when you say Bill Self should be replaced.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

Id like to meet and shake the hand of the person who would turn down a Kevin Durant, Michael Beasley, Derrick Rose, Kyrie Irving or any such player. They've got brass unlike any in the history of mankind.

Shane Johnston 5 years ago

No one is saying all OADs are equal. It's misleading to suggest all potential OADs can provide that type of instant impact in college or that you can be sure about that when recruiting them.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

Im not suggesting all OADs are equal. Im arguing against their exclusion as a group. The principles upon which some are suggesting we shouldnt get them (e.g., they impede continuity and team chemistry, they take minutes from multi-year players so they dont develop, and that they are selfish) do not take into account the caliber of OADs. On the contrary, they reject them based on principles. Not on caliber of the players. Therefore, my comments are not misleading as you suggest.

Shane Johnston 5 years ago

Then you shouldn't make an argument for the group by citing examples of OADs that are not representative of that group. People are not arguing against recruiting Kevin Durant. They are arguing against recruiting a potential OAD who may be Kevin Durant, may be Josh Selby.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

I dont think you understood what I just wrote. The sole criterion necessary to make the argument is their status as a potential OAD at the time of recruitment. Why? Because detractors of OADs are putting forth arguments based on a set of assumptions that do NOT INCLUDE THEIR CALIBER (look at the arguments yourself and you will be easily convinced of this). This makes any OAD player representative of the group. I could have listed any and all of the OADs we've had and made the same case. In fact, Ive done so over and over in comments sections of various articles. While no one is saying that all OADs are equal, you would be hard pressed to find comments here that distinguish between them. I put that challenge to you.

Needle in a haystack.

Good luck!

Rodney Crain 5 years ago

Agree Joe. It is like some of these posters want to live in 1970's again.

You have to have a mix of OAD and long term players.

Chad Smith 5 years ago

If Kelly is the only player who leaves KU will be in great shape for next season. We WILL develop all those players and many of them now have 1 or 2 or 3 years under their belt.

Inside--Perry(Senior) will be great, Landen And Hunter Proved they can provide good minutes and will only continue to improve. If Cliff is back, he will be hungry, especially after missing the postseason. Jamari will add energy and defense off the bench, Carlton Bragg will stretch the floor and give us two dynamic post players so doubling Perry will cost opponents(unlike much of this year)

Outside--Frank and Devonte as a guard combo is delicious. Both are getting better, both played better towards the end of the season. Frank is now our leader. He will be a Junior and I feel will be one of the top PG in the country next season. I hope he makes that leap. Wayne, Brannen, and Svi should all be better.

The key to me is grabbing another wing player and a true center/shot blocker. Perhaps that Vegas kid(Zimmerman) and if we could somehow snag Malik Newman or Jaylen Brown( with Oubre gone,is now much more realistic) would make us contenders.

We've gotten spoiled. Another Big 12 Title. 11 Straight. Yes, we've lost a couple games in the 2nd round. Remember when we all wanted Bill Self's Head after losing to Bradley and Bucknell??!?!?!?

Duke lost to Mercer last year(14 seed) and Lehigh(15 seed) two years before that. No one is freaking out at Duke or asking for Coach K to change his methods. They are back in the Final Four. We'll be back there soon enough. You can't win the national championship every year. UK was in the NIT in 2013 for pete's sake and they lost to Robert Morris.

Trust in Bill Self.

Bryce Landon 5 years ago

No, I don't trust Bill Self any more. He just got his ass kicked by a team and coach he's too proud to play in the regular season and cost out program its credibility.

Fire Bill Self!

Bryce Landon 5 years ago

There are so many coaches who can actually motivate their teams and handle their business against lower seeds in the NCAA Tournament.

Fire Bill Self!

John Fitzgerald 5 years ago

You, sir, are a winner if there ever was one. By that I mean a special winner. A winner that wins because he can tie his shoes but can't stop licking the sidewalk. Keep winning there buddy, because one day someone is gonna take that bouncy ball from you.

Bryce Landon 5 years ago

I speak the truth and you fire back with insults. Typical liberal group-thinker who likes to take shots at people who think independently.

John Fitzgerald 5 years ago

Politics? Really? You just reached a whole new level of special. Your parents must be so proud! Have you upgraded to a sippy cup yet or is that beyond your capabilities?

Jim Pendleton 5 years ago

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There isn't a KU fan anywhere who doesn't want to have Final Fours, National Titles, etc. We are all disappointed with early exits from the tourney. However, for anyone to state that the conference titles, Big 12 Tourney titles, in season tourney titles, etc are not important, is just wrong. It is all part of the process of what makes KU such a great program.

Kids want to play for titles and they especially want to play for the big prize in March/April. Trading conference streak for a Final Four? Be careful what you wish for. If we were finishing 4th or 5th in the Big 12 every year, we would be getting a five or six seed in the tourney, and most years, your chances of going far in the tourney usually isn't good. The best kids want to play for winners, not middle of the pack teams, and KU is a proven winner.

I do wish Kelly well, although it is clear he isn't ready. In this day, when a kid is a projected lottery pick, it is hard to walk away from that. In addition, if a player comes back, then has a so so next year or gets hurt, their draft stock goes down. I have always said I wish basketball was like baseball in that you can declare out of high school, but if you go to college, you're their for at least three years. Wishful thinking, but we can dream!

William Weissbeck 5 years ago

And then there is the danger with someone like Alexander - his mom ruined the deal all the way round.

John Fitzgerald 5 years ago

It would be awesome but it seems they're waiting for the entire Kentucky team to decide. I'm confident most of the guys left over end up there anyways. Cal could have 5-6 guys declare for the draft, especially if they win the Title, so he'll have plenty of open spots.

Aaron Paisley 5 years ago

Who are the other players Kentucky loses? Townes, Cauley-Stein, Lyles, and Booker are all likely going, but who else? Nobody else on that team is even close to being a projected first round pick. Dakari Johnson is the only other player projected to be drafted, that's as a mid second round pick so it's doubtful he goes. Kentucky is likely losing 4, has already signed 3 so they only have 1 left.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

The case of the Harrison twins is interesting, isnt it?

John Fitzgerald 5 years ago

"Cal COULD have 5-6 guys declare for the draft..." I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough for you, Aaron. I guess I included the Harrison twins in that possible equation. Am I wrong? Have you spoken with them? Or Cal? You seem to be the man in the know.

Aaron Paisley 5 years ago

Harrison twins aren't first rounders according to any credible sources. It's possible they declare, but it would be a dumb decision on their end and their is no evidence that suggests they are leaving.

Aaron Paisley 5 years ago

Do I have to be one to be able to read what people who do closely follow this stuff are saying and predicting? There is not one credible source that is currently predicting either twin going in the first round and a lot that don't have them getting drafted at all in this class. It doesn't take but a few minutes to google "2015 NBA mock draft" and see where the Harrison twins are projected to go according to multiple places who get paid to follow this stuff.

Joe Ross 5 years ago

Im not targeting a round that they might get drafted in. I just think that no matter what side youre on with respect to the OAD debate, the case of the Harrison twins is interesting. They were considered OAD two years ago and despite being solid on the nation's best team they're not projected higher than they are. I think for most players who go to Kentucky, the depth of talent generally helps them. But in the case of the twins I wonder whether or not being viewed against such potent talents around them actually hurts their stock. It seems to me that if they were at Kansas, Duke, or Arizona they would be higher profile players. Im not sure. Ill leave this comment and revisit it later, probably going back and forth in my mind in the meantime. In any case, it seems interesting to me.

Rodney Crain 5 years ago

To the NBA draft, I would agree, Johnson might head to China for a year.

Aaron Paisley 5 years ago

Go get your money Kelly. Anybody saying he isn't ready, at what point is a player truly ready? There is always another thing to work on. Kelly will get better faster by playing against people better than him, not by playing against people who are equal or inferior to his ability. Kelly will be just fine and I wish him the best of luck.

Joe Joseph 5 years ago

Yes.

The fallacy that playing college ball will make you better at pro ball than playing actual pro ball. I've never understood why so many people think players cease to develop once they declare for the NBA draft.

Dale Rogers 5 years ago

Kelly Oubre has been a classy guy, a terrific ambassador for the school. Best of luck to him in his future. I hope he returns to KU whenever he can.

Suzi Marshall 5 years ago

Kansas has be very fortunate with a string of first class OADs in BMac, Wiggins and now KO. Jaylen Brown can make it 4 in a row as we go for our 12th straight in the Big 12.

Bryce Landon 5 years ago

Now can we PLEASE replace Oubre with someone who has BOTH FEET in college instead of one foot in the Association?

Shawn Otrimble 5 years ago

After reading a lot of these comments and the negative feelings to the one and done style approach to college basketball, I just look at Kentucky and Duke and see that it is hard not to continue this trend just to keep up. Yes Kentucky got bounced from the Nit, yet look at them this year, practically unstoppable. We were beat by a good upper class team team in Wichita St this year, but I would still take our young line-up over theirs any day as would most of you. The bottom line is usually the most talented team wins. Examples that immediately come to mind are Syracuse with Carmelo, Michigan with the fab 5, ect. If we are to compete with the top tier teams we have to recruit top tier players. That is just the reality of college basketball today. And I truly believe without the one and dones we have had, that there would be no way we would own our string of big 12 championship seasons. Rock Chalk!

Robert Howard 5 years ago

Kelly - Congratulations and Rock Chalk! Jayhawk Nation is excited for you. Make us proud!

Regarding the other comments regarding one-and-dones, let me pose this perspective: Would we be complaining if KU Football landed a few 5-star recruits, knowing they'd only be here 1-year? Quite the opposite; we'd probably welcome them with a parade on Mass Street!

Recruiting-wise, we go after the best available players at the time. Some of them decide to jump to the NBA. I don't blame them; it will happen more and more.

But we always need to be in a position to go after the top talent, regardless of how many years they ultimately decide to stay. Period.

Michael Lorraine 5 years ago

Every year around this time I am reminded to pay homage to Danny who decided not to forego his senior year because he wanted to win a championship.

Brad Watson 5 years ago

Kelly's game was awesome....unfortunately it wasn't married well with Frank Mason.....the offense .....I think was suppose to run through Kelly....but Frank wanted to run it through himself far too often.....I love Frank and his game...but the chemistry between the 2 ....in my opinion....and in my opinion only...just wasn't there...and I also think there was a clash of egos under the surface....I am not sure how Kelly's game translates in the NBA....but take the big money and sit and watch for a couple years and who knows....in my opinion.....another year here would have helped him....but I am not aware of his circumstances. Good luck Kelly...I loved those tough floaters that you made look so easy.

Rod Huffman 5 years ago

I personally don't like the one and done's, but I don't blame them for taking the chance to earn millions doing what they love. I would prefer KU have a team of seasoned seniors and juniors for the NCAA all the time, but I think that time has gone by the way-side. Besides Kentucky how many projected OAD"s are on the other three teams? By the way Wichita State did not have any on it's team this year. Maybe I would have a different view if we had better oad's. Ones that could step up and be team leaders as they are projected to be. Just my opinion and I am not trying to take anything away from any of them, but in honest opinion Embiid was our best until he got injured. And he wasn't projected to be one. Good luck Kelly with your future and thank you for what you brought to Lawrence, KU and all it's fans! RCJH!

Lee Henry 5 years ago

Hope you get lots of money right away....really think one more year would have helped your game a lot...your not ready for the NBA...looks like another Selby or Collins etc...

Aaron Paisley 5 years ago

Sherron Collins is the other side of the coin. A guy who didn't leave when his stock was highest and ended up not being drafted. Sherron was considered a first round pick after his junior year, stayed one more season, and fell out of the draft completely. If you're projected as a lottery pick, you don't risk that.

Dan Spurgin 5 years ago

Unless you're going to land 5 of the top 10 players each year (Kentucky) -- you're not going to win 6 games in March with one-and-doners. Frosh are too inconsistent even if those frosh are brimming with potential (aka Wiggins, etc.).

Seems like 2-3 one-and-doners / yr. is worst case scenario. 5/yr means you're Kentucky. 1/yr means you're building a nice mix of upperclassmen w/ experience & body maturity to go along with your few wunderkids. But they way Kansas has been doing it last 4-5 years... just looks we're caught between 2 roster approaches and not doing either well enough to win it all.

Ben Simonett 5 years ago

http://www.kysportsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?24985-At-what-point-should-Bill-Self-be-on-the-hot-seat

Kentucky fans objectively discussing Self. Conclusion: great regular season coach, terrible in the tournament

Brad Watson 5 years ago

in my opinion......its not about national championships.....as long as Big 12 championship banners are hung....case closed....Coach Self has won many tournaments.....In the NCAA Tournament....64 teams are invited and out of those 64 teams....63 go home as losers....so KU and Coach Self are way ahead of the odds.....Kentucky fans are feeling good right now...and they should.....they have a great roster....but we have seen this movie before.....Phi Slama Jama....UNLV.....Georgetown....unbeatable teams....no way they can lose....so beware Kentucky...it could be a disappointing weekend...Thank you for reading my post and Big 12 Titles are more important and a more realistic goal than national titles...and as far as conference titles...Bill Self stands alone....and he is one great coach and we are lucky to have him and I hppe he is here until he retires...he was an upgrade from Roy....as it has turned out...GO KU

Michael Ales 5 years ago

Kelly good luck, maybe the wreckless way you play will get you a 1st round, guaranteed contract but in 3 years when it's up you will be playing overseas. About the time Coach Self would have been able to coach you as a Senior. This FIRE Self crap has got to stop.

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