Originally published September 28, 2012 at 02:02p.m., updated September 29, 2012 at 12:00a.m.

Bill Self, KU agree on contract through 2021-22 season

Kansas head coach Bill Self takes questions during a press conference on Sunday, April 1, 2012 at the Superdome.

Kansas head coach Bill Self takes questions during a press conference on Sunday, April 1, 2012 at the Superdome.


Armed with a new contract to lead Kansas University basketball through the 2021-22 season, Bill Self on Friday was asked what he might say to any fans concerned that he’ll someday head to the NBA.

“I always thought I had one of the best jobs in the country, and that is college, NBA, any level,” Self told the Journal-World after it was announced that he’d agreed to a deal, that, if fulfilled, will guarantee him just over $53 million over the next 10 seasons.

“I am never going to say never, but I will tell you this: I can’t imagine being anywhere other than the University of Kansas. We (he and wife Cindy) bought a new home three years ago and look forward to living in it many, many more years to come.”

KU athletic director Sheahon Zenger approached Self about a four-year extension (including more dollars) of a contract that had six years remaining after last year’s appearance in the NCAA title game.

“It’s very nice that Sheahon and the chancellor and all the people that have input in this do this for our family,” Self said. “Also, I hope it’s for a performance well done but also for a performance that is perceived to be well done moving forward, too. We’ve already done what we’ve done. Now we’ve got to do more.

“We’re excited, fired up,” he added, speaking to the J-W while on a golf outing following Friday’s Boot Camp session and before the start of a recruiting weekend. “I’m really pleased at the direction of the athletic department. I’m really pleased with the direction Sheahon has this thing moving. Our entire athletic department is on great footing.”

Zenger said he did not seek out Self for an extension as a reward merely for the Final Four season.

“For me, more importantly whether he got to that point of the tournament or not, was we want Bill here long-term. So the 10-year contract is what was most important to me,” Zenger told the Journal-World. “People probably don’t remember when I took the job, I said one of the biggest reasons I came here was Bill Self and getting to work with him. It has turned out to be one of the true joys of the job.”

Asked if this proves Self wants to stay and decline future overtures from the NBA, Zenger said: “I believe so. I believe coach Self loves it here. We just want to make it so that he doesn’t worry about going to the NBA. I believe he and I have the greatest coaching and AD jobs in the country, and we just want to enjoy it together.”

Self has learned to make no absolute statements regarding his own future.

“Something that kind of goes unsaid too much is I learned never to say never when I put my foot in my mouth at Illinois saying I was going to be there for the long haul. The long haul by definition I don’t think is three years ... but Kansas called,” said Self, who replaced Roy Williams at KU after spending three years at U of I.

“I don’t really know if people really gather what a great situation I had there that we left to come to a situation that was even a lot better. I know there are other great jobs out there. I certainly don’t think it takes long to call roll for the best of the best. I feel I’m fortunate to have one of those positions. You never say never, but I can’t imagine myself coaching anywhere else as long as the people here at KU want me to be here.”

As with his previous contract, no taxpayer or tuition funds will be used to pay this new contract.

Self’s current contract, which runs through June 2018, pays him $3.376 million, including base salary and annual service payments, as well as retention payments that are payable in 2013 and 2018. In total, he can receive up to $22.4 million in bonuses if he stays through the length of the contract.

The new contract pays Self $3.856 million annually, an increase of $480,000 per year. In addition, Self, who nets a retention bonus of $3.27 million at the end of the upcoming season, will earn a retention bonus of $876,000 per year, payable in 2015 and 2018. That second retention bonus is replaced in 2019 by an agreement to pay Self a one-time sum of $6 million if he remains KU’s coach through March 2022. In order for Self to earn the maximum amount of the contract, including retention bonuses, he must remain as head coach at KU through the 2021-22 season.

The contract also includes the following incentives:

• Regular-season conference championship ($50,000).

• Conference postseason tournament championship ($25,000).

• AP Coach of the Year ($100,000).

• Final Four appearance ($150,000).

• NCAA Championship ($200,000).

He has no buyout if he leaves KU for another job.

“I felt great about the contract we re-did in ’08,” he said of an extension granted by former AD Lew Perkins. “Of course, extending it four years I think is terrific. I’m excited. I don’t know if I’m going to be giddy about, or lay awake at night thinking, ‘Hey, I have a contract until 2022.’ Hopefully if you do a good job they are going to want you around. If you are not doing a good job, they won’t want you around. A contract is only as good as the paper it’s written on. There are ways if you are not doing a good job … they could still make a change.”

It’s believed that only Kentucky coach John Calipari (5.39 million per annum) makes more money in the college ranks, when one considers retention bonuses. Zenger says Self is worth every penny.

“Not only do I admire what he does with the X’s and O’s ... it’s how he handles the young guys, interacts with them, the relationship he has with them,” Zenger said. “How he handles the constituent groups and for us that work with him on a daily basis. It’s safe to call him a ‘celebrity coach,’ but he acts like anything but a celebrity coach. He’s absolutely a joy and pleasure to work with.”

To review all details of Self’s contract, read the official pdf file at The web address is

Recruiting: Frank Mason, a 5-foot-11, 160-pound senior point guard from Massanutten Military Academy in Woodstock, Va., is scheduled to visit KU this weekend. Mason, who is ranked No. 131 nationally by, signed with Towson last November, but elected to attend prep school for academic reasons. He now has KU, South Carolina, Tennessee, Oklahoma State, Virginia Tech and others on his list. Mason averaged 27 points a game last season at Petersburg (Va.) High. He was region player of the year for the two-time state runner-up team.


Gavin Fritton 7 years, 5 months ago

Best sports news I'll have this weekend.

Robbk1066 7 years, 5 months ago

Coach set for a while, new scoreboard, Late night 14 days away, team working up a sweat, 2013 recruits - 2 down, another 2-3 to go, its Friday night, Football close to half over...sorry had to throw that in, nice week, very nice.

KUBBALLROCKS 7 years, 5 months ago

Coach Self is worth every penny! Where is Frank Haith on the list - Oh that's right - M-I-Z-O-U-T !

Jayhawk1116 7 years, 5 months ago

O-U-T. I like it! Hope it catches on...

Benjamin Piehler 7 years, 5 months ago

Well it was a KC Star headline... (Points to avatar)

sportacopia 7 years, 4 months ago

this is great news for KU fans everywhere

Marcus Duncan 7 years, 5 months ago

Bill Self for President!! You've got 1 vote here!

Tony Bandle 7 years, 5 months ago

Make it in St.Louis we let dead people vote!!!

Katie Bieber 7 years, 5 months ago

Is that how that dead guy got elected once?

Robbk1066 7 years, 5 months ago

Would prefer him over these two "beauties" we have to choose from this year.

sportacopia 7 years, 4 months ago

I LIKE IT! IF you guys are looking for a website to talk sports you should checkout it is a free site I created after I graduated from KU just to give people a place to go every day to talk sports, right now mostly KU people on it but looking for more every day. Rock Chalk

Dee Shaw 7 years, 5 months ago

Well deserved. A true testimony that hard work and dedication does pay off. Great work Coach. You deserve it. Proud that Coach Self is our coach. Just think coach you are the 1% that we hear these morons talk about all the time needing to pay more. God Bless ya. You work hard and do your job and awarded then good old Uncle Sam comes in and punishes hard work and commitment. I hope some day I can be in your shoes. Keep up the hard work and keep pushing forward.

Benjamin Piehler 7 years, 5 months ago

I should clarify: I'm not admonishing you for your political views; everyone's entitled to them... But you read that whole article and that's what you got out of it?

Tony Bandle 7 years, 5 months ago

Hey, kD you need to go back to the Boot Camp article...I think you lost an argument to Jaybate!!

Cmill1221 7 years, 5 months ago

It's "Climate Change". No one could prove "Global Warming" so they changed the name.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

ilbastardito (er, umm, tiny ilbastardo),

Now that's rich: I am, according to you, reknowned for ducking debate and fleeing controversies?

Try a testosterone supplement and go find your daddy?


jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Yes, I know. I man-up and you are a middle aged thumb sucker. :-)

dylans 7 years, 5 months ago

Another decade of dominance has been insured!

DoctorTK 7 years, 5 months ago

18 straight Big12 championships will be a record very difficult to break. :)

pepper_bar 7 years, 5 months ago

What incentives are in his contract for having his players succeed in the classroom?

Sam Brockert 7 years, 5 months ago

That should never be incentive based. It should be an expectation. It should be part of his regualr job.

Steve Reigle 7 years, 5 months ago

And, given the results in the classroom, he does see it as part of his job.

Spencer Goff 7 years, 5 months ago

Eat Quiznos suuuuuuuubs... They got a pepper bar.

Evan Ridenour 7 years, 5 months ago

I have never been bored enough to read through his contract so I am not sure if he has such an incentive. BUT, I do know that during Self's time as head coach, his players have been one of the highest performing groups in all of college basketball.

An example of this is the fact that KU Men's Basketball has had a perfect APR score the last six years in a row!

clevelandjayhawker 7 years, 5 months ago

seems like coach self could be coaching former player's sons with this extension

David Leathers 7 years, 5 months ago

He means his OWN former players smart a$$!

Tony Bandle 7 years, 5 months ago

As Flounder would say in Animal House..." Boy Oh Boy......This is Great!!!!"

Sam Constance 7 years, 5 months ago

If Self ever toys with the idea of going to the Spurs, this contract won't have any bearing on his decision. But it does mean good things for the chances of his getting enticed away by another college basketball program...

LAJayhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

What this contract ensures is that he likely wouldn't make more money in the NBA than he's making here, and would face a high risk for essentially no extra reward type situation. A team like the Spurs would basically have to offer him a ridiculous contract to make the risk worth it, and that would be an idiotic business decision considering the failure rate of college coaches in the League. Zenger was using his brain with the retention bonuses. I put the chances of Self going to the NBA at roughly 0.000057%. Give or take. :-)

bradh 7 years, 5 months ago

It seemed like a silly move when I first read it, considering he was under contract for another 6 years. LA's take on risk/reward and NBA contracts makes the extension sensible to me.

toots_mom 7 years, 5 months ago

I like the way they plan ahead. Good move KU.

Benjamin Piehler 7 years, 5 months ago

Oh, imagine the Apple products we'll be enjoying in 2022...

Sam Brockert 7 years, 5 months ago

Computers you install into your body that work by thought and display in your eye...HAHA!

Tony Bandle 7 years, 5 months ago

I love ice cream with my Apple products.

Benjamin Piehler 7 years, 5 months ago

There will be futuristic ice cream as well, my friend. Dippin Dots was just the beginning. I'm biased towards chocolate as an ice cream topping, though.

LAJayhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

The Singularity.

We'll all be androids before you know it.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Except for JayShagsHimself.

He will enter the anal singularity and then come out in a Vent-iverse. :-)

Seriously, though LAJay, I am having a very Phillip K. Dick kind of day, what with JayShagsHimself haunting my posts the way The Disclaimerer was want to do for awhile.

So: to the point--Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

And even more to the point--are the electric sheep nervous?


Displayhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

Y'know, the thing that I like most about Coach Self, is that even though he and his family are set financially, you would never know it by the way he does his job, and more importantly, by how he treats people!

Ben Simonett 7 years, 5 months ago

This is great news! Self is an amazing coach, one that I currently wouldn't trade for anyone. My only problems with him have been his recent recruit results, as an overall coach, there arent many better!

Ben Simonett 7 years, 5 months ago

I did, and critiqued his argument that MCDs AA/year isn't a valid measure of recruiting success.

Ben Simonett 7 years, 5 months ago

No my metric of choice is recruiting class ranking.

You can sign zero top 10-20 guys but if you still land a 5 man class of top 50 guys your class ranking will be on par with the 2-3 elite prospect class.

milehighhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

When basketball coaches win at Illinois, they go to KU.

When basketball coaches lose at Illinois, they go to K-State.


Ron Prichard 7 years, 5 months ago

If I could have given you more than one "thumbs up" for this I would have.

Absolutely classic post!!

KGphoto 7 years, 5 months ago

By now you can probably buy the bumper sticker or t-shirt.

Jack Wilson 7 years, 5 months ago

When basketball coaches win at Illinois, they are passed over for Quinn Snyder.

texashawk10 7 years, 5 months ago

To be fair and honest about the situation when Missouri was choosing a replacement for Norm Stewart in 1999, Bill Self had just finished his second season at Tulsa and had a career record of 97-74 with one NCAA appearance which isn't exactly a spectacular resume. In hindsight, it's easy to see how bad a screw up that was, but at the time, nobody knew just how good Bill Self was going to be as a coach yet.

KGphoto 7 years, 5 months ago

At the time nobody had any idea if Quin Snyder could coach at all. He had a grand total of 4 years experience as an assistant head coach. Zero head coaching experience.

texashawk10 7 years, 5 months ago

Very true, but I always find it funny when people rip Missouri's administration for choosing Quin over Bill at the time because neither one was a proven commodity as a head coach in a major conference. What I don't have a problem ripping Missouri's administration for at the time is why they didn't hire a bigger name coach at the time to replace Norm because I'm sure there were bigger names out than the head coach at Tulsa and a Coach K assistant that they could've hired.

FoCoCoHawk 7 years, 5 months ago

When basketball coaches interview at Mizzou, they say: "You know I want to be able to talk to KU if they're interested in hiring me...right?"

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Lon Kruger might add: and Florida, and the pros, and UNLV and then to Norman, Oklahoma of all god forsaken places. :-)

Ron Prichard 7 years, 5 months ago

Wow, this is fantastic news! Everyone knows we have one of the very best--I think THE best--basketball coaches in the country. But what impresses me even more about Coach Self is the kind of person he is when you see him around town or at events, hear him talk on the radio or TV, or the way the recruits' parents talk about him. The time pressures that he is placed under are crazy. Radio shows, interviews, fundraising events, etc, then practice, recruiting, and he has to have some office time and time for his family. But every time I have had the pleasure of meeting him (a few Hawk Talk shows at the Salty Iguana and other events), he has always been smiling, joking with everyone, etc. Perhaps even more impressive is the fact that he remembers peoples faces and names, even with only a passing meeting.

Congratulations, Coach Self! You deserve this. And for that matter, Congratulations, KU and Sheahon Zenger!! You have secured the best basketball coach in the country for the next 10 years!!

Rock Chalk, Baby!!

lurkerhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

Well deserved. Bill will never lose his competitive drive.

KJ Quartermaine 7 years, 5 months ago

Wow, how cheap can Zenger be? Only a 200K bonus for a national championship lamo.

For all of you sensitive folk out there, this was only a joke. I repeat this was only a joke

actorman 7 years, 5 months ago

Yeah, remember how many people were criticizing the hire of Zenger as a minor-league move? Funny how we're not hearing those complaints now.

KJ Quartermaine 7 years, 5 months ago

I read a few months ago -- people claiming to have a good handle on how long Self would remain at KU -- put the number at five years. I thought that was odd when I read it. And the story appeared in a credible nwspaper

Ben Simonett 7 years, 5 months ago

Anybody read the bullet point that says Self gets all the royalties from merchandise sales in the month of June?

Wonder if they run any sales at that time!

jayhawkinnc 7 years, 5 months ago

Man, this is GREAT news! Assuming he stays at KU for the duration of this contract (and I think he will), he could then be on the verge of passing Phog Allen as the winningest KU Basketball Coach ever (Think about how awesome that title would be!). Phog had 590 wins at KU. Self currently has 269 through 9 seasons. Let's say he gets another 269 over the next 9 seasons (through 2020-21)....that would give him 538 with one more year to go on the current contract and just 53 wins away from passing Phog. And, I'm assuming KU will at some point give him another extention of a contract along the way before 2022 comes. He would turn 60 in December of 2022 and would have lots of coaching years still ahead of him. WE ARE SO LUCKY TO HAVE BILL SELF!!!! Keep rockin' Coach! We love ya.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk! KU!!!

Jack Wilson 7 years, 5 months ago

We are just lucky to have such an outstanding person, tremendous coach, and excellent representative of the University of Kansas. Time for the season to get rollin'.

LAJayhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

I do not know for certain, but I was also under a similar impression. Regardless of the source of the funds, I think since the University is public, the contract is subject to the Open Records Act.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

KUAD is a private not for profit.

Therefore, it depends. :-)

If Self were an employee of KUAD--a private not-for-profit, then it would not necessarily be required to report it.

But it could be that KUAD was incorporated with reporting requirements similar to those of regular faculty and staff, despite being a private not-for-profit corporations.

Alternatively, it could be that Self is officially an employee of KU, but his salary is paid by KUAD. This classification would require his salary be reported publicly.

That's as far as I can take it. :-)

Michael Pannacciulli 7 years, 5 months ago

His legacy will rival all the greats when all is said and done.

I know I am for sure "giddy"

Excellent news.

Curtis Lange 7 years, 5 months ago

$15k/day?! Man, Im in the wrong profession. I'd just have to work 2.5 days to be good for a year, lol.

DDDHawk 7 years, 5 months ago

Great deal for both sides of that contract! Congrats and thanks to both!

Bob Zielinski 7 years, 5 months ago

Nothing against Zenger and Little but it is slightly comical how they (news flash) recognize Self as an upper echelon coach when he had more to do with keeping the Big XII together and keeping the university on track than either of those two did.

Hey, great job coaching the basketball team Bill. Oh yeah, and thanks for helping bail us out of a tough spot as well.

chriz 7 years, 5 months ago

This doesn't really affect anything, so far as I can tell, but it does seem to be a wise and courteous decision by Zenger. From what I understand, Self can leave anytime he wants without penalty. And he can renegotiate any time he wants.

What this is is an appreciation of who Self is as a coach and ambassador for KU, as well as an acknowledgment that he is who he is. They have full confidence that he won't change one iota for at least the next ten years, and that he's at least worth that amount during that time.

So good for KU, and good for Self.

LAJayhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

What this contract does is give Self a lot of money for a job in which he is extremely secure. If he were to change jobs, he would be less secure and likely not make much more money, if any more at all.

The retention bonuses changed the risk/reward ratio greatly for Self to go anywhere (specifically the NBA). Make no mistake, this renegotiated contract is EXCELLENT news for KU basketball.

Brian Stoops 7 years, 5 months ago

Good move, KU.

Anything under 5 mil per year is a steal of a deal for Coach Self.

LAJayhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

With retention and performance bonuses, he's making more than 5 mil a year. If he stays the full 10 years, he averages 5.3 mil a year WITHOUT any performance bonuses.

And that doesn't include other endorsements, camps, etc.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Did you discount the $6M in 2022 for ten years at an investment return rate?

Assuming a 10% equity return rate, over 10 years, that $6M is worth $2.3 mil in today's dollars. And that's not discounting with monthly periods, which would shrink the number quite a bit more.

Cal getting $5M/yr is better than Bill getting $3.5M/yr with an out year lump sum.

Dollars now are worth more than dollars later.

LAJayhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

Well, Jay, it's slightly more complicated, as his yearly retention bonus in almost $900k, which puts his overall salary at 4.7-ish. However, he doesn't receive that first retention bonus until 2015. So, it does diminish it a bit, just not as much as you described above. The 6 mil at the end of 2022, yes, would have less of an equity return... of course, you have to make assumptions as to what Self would do with that money if he had it given to him yearly, instead of a lump sum at the end...

But, yeah, Cal's $5+ contract is more valuable. However, my comment (if your response was directed at me) wasn't about comparing it to what Cal is making, but was a response to STOOPS in that Self is, essentially, making $5 mil a year in straight salary. Again, that doesn't include performance bonuses of possibly another half mil a year.

ABeesus 7 years, 5 months ago

10% equity return rate? Those days are gone, gone, gone.

jaybate 7 years, 4 months ago

So ABessus, plug in the number you want.

And use any flipping model you want.

Bend over and I will use your ass to hold an abacus and figure it that way, too.

Bottom line, any money ten years out is worthless however you count it.

Financial modelling is definitely a game I can play anyway you want it.

Self knows the palm at the end of the mind ain't worth much, even if you don't.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Well, of course, you are wrong. You are almost always wrong. :-)

There will be a power shift in public university compensation of chancellors, as soon as these universities begin to be taken private.

And, of course, the anti-constitutionalist right that has pioneered deregulation and privatization of jails, prisons, hospitals, etc. so as to enrich the top .5% at the expense of the rest of us (especially non-thinkers like you) makes no secret it is very interested in privatization of universities, especially any liberal ones that obstruct anti-constitutionalist agendas in their states. Even a ninny like you should be aware of this long term move. They would probably be moving faster on it, but they got hung up in the Middle Eastern regime change thing, and slowed down by Obama War and Obama Care. Hey, who does Barack think he is, taking our pre-emptive war and running with it?!!!!

And don't think (to the stunted little increment of thought you are capable of) for a second that the process of privatizing universities is not already underway incrementally.

The spread of "institutes" and "centers" around universities are the academic equivalents of the emergence of the private not for profit athletic department.

Now, for gosh sakes, try to stay with me on this, slow feet, even though you probably struggle distinguishing between FTs and FGs.

Remember what basketball coaches were once paid, when they were officially faculty/staff of the university, and their salaries were subject to rational bureaucratic constraint and state funding from the legislature?

John Wooden made something like $20K per year after 10 rings (I believe he started the 1960s down around $10K, and he swept the basketball floor himself in those days. That $20k in 1970 is worth $1M/yr in today's dollars. Think about it, neutrino mind. With the public universities watching salaries, Wooden was getting something like $1M in today's dollars, where as his equivalent but still lesser coach--Bill Self, is raking in $3.8M. Privatization is a license for gouging the public and inflating salaries. its just a fact. It happens in every field that gets privatized.

Now, back to your preposterous and pathetic attempt to try to stay on the same floor with moi.

NOW HEAR THIS, MY LITTLE MESOMORPH: there is no logical connection between the anticonstitutionalist push to privatize public universities (or all the other things they are so queer to privatize). The privatization game goes like this: first piece meal, through institutes, centers, private athletic departments, etc. and then finally carve the heart out of the university itself via private administrative contracts.

Oh, and Bill Self's contract announced today has absolutely no logical connection to Sister Bernadette's pay stub, you snot-sucking little self-deluder. :-)

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Erratum: I left out...there is no connection between CBernie's pre privatization salary and Bill Self's new contract. None. Zero. Zilch. :-)

I was having so much fun I got ahead of myself, which is something, having fun, Mr. Slow, that you will never do. :-)

ABeesus 7 years, 5 months ago

Wooden made $35,000 per year, in his last years at UCLA. Using the US govt CPI calculator, that would be about $150,000 in 2012 dollars. Or using Shadow Stats more accurate inflation calculator, it would be about $550,000 in 2012 dollars.

Either one is more than a living wage, but imagine getting Wooden for a tenth the price of what a top coach goes for today. In fairness, coaches salaries hadn't really broken out then. Wooden was just at the tail end of the bargain era, where a coach who even then brought the university millions in revenue, and even more in publicity, was paid the same as any professor, but unlike a prof, didn't get tenure.

jaybate 7 years, 4 months ago

Regarding the salary number, I had lunch with him in 1977. It was the number he and Nellie mentioned to me, when they were talking about the outrageous money coaches were starting to make. If you have checked the public records of what UCLA was paying then, then I will go with you. Otherwise, I will trust my memory and say they were maybe referring back to earlier in his career.

Regarding use of the CPI inflator, bully for you as long as you understand that it is bullchips and has been for at least two decades. The CPI inflator leaves out most of the items that inflate the most, as you ought to know.

I long ago stopped thinking about indexing money in CPI inflators and started using ten year average targeted equity dividend rates. Money only has meaning in terms of its yield function. One of the ways I know I am dealing with a trained naive (my term for someone educated in a reputable business school that has still not survived enough business cycles to develop his own experience based philosophical approach to time value of money) in financial analysis is when they rely on CPI Inflators.

But how ever one indexes time value of money from Wooden's time to present, bottom line is Wooden was the greatest bargain in the history of college basketball.

jaybate 7 years, 4 months ago

Come on, you have a small rhetorical organ.

I spelled it out for you.

This rhetorical device of repeating a lie went out with the Bush years, chump.

I said what I said.

I would never say the stupid things you say.

This is how it is.

You assert nonsense.

I pull your pants down and paddle you.

You say something that makes sense, and if you are nice, then I will praise you.

You have yet to make sense.

So: you're my speed bag.


antibate 7 years, 4 months ago

Geeeeeeeeeeez fish bate - Get a life!

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Here are some other things that are not logically connected to Bill Self's contract:

JayShagger's inability to out reason a chinchilla;

JayShagger's impotent rhetorical style;

JayShagger's inability to win a debate point against even a Fizzou troll, much less against any KU fan;

the net revenues of Nike's Phil Knight;

the salary of George Raveling pimping treads for Phil;

the net worth Steve Job's passed on to his wife and children;

the GDP of Mauritius, where slavery is still in session;

the 1969 budget of NASA in $2012 Fed Notes; and

so on. :-)

Sometimes when I read what you write, I think I might be able to get a grant to study how in the world you can even keep yourself hydrated yourself. :-)

Sometimes when I read what you write, I wonder if you were shot in the brain with No. 6, but not killed, by Dick Cheney, while being used as prey at a human hunting preserve in Texas.

Sometimes when I read what you write, I wonder at how remarkable it is that you can find the power button on your desktop.


Aw, shucks, I'm just kidding here, JayShagger, I really just think you are somewhere on the stupid spectrum.

But by god, I defend your right to reason invalidly and make straw arguments that are the only kind you could ever have a sliver of a chance of winning...assuming, of course, no one notices your post and responds.

Welcome to iBoot Camp, my little T-Ball brain. :-)


kureader 7 years, 5 months ago

$53,000,000 ... 53 million in 10 years ... guaranteed.

It really sounds like alot of money ... until you remember that Mangino (and staff), Perkins and Gill (and staff) were paid almost 20 million to do NOTHING, except to leave KU.

For Self, this is a $35 million dollar deal, plus or minus, after tax. It's enough, that any move to the NBA wouldn't provide much of an incentive, and it certainly wouldn't give Self 10 years worth of job security.

KU doesn't have all the cards. Under the circumstances, this was an astute move by Zenger. And, I can't think of a better long term basketball coach for KU than Bill Self.

Michael Luby 7 years, 5 months ago

Hekk Yah! Bill Self is The Man. There is no other coach in college ball right now who is better and we've got him. Speaking to the idea that KU officials could use Lawrence tax payer money for his salary. Id bet lots of money that if given to vote, it would pass by a wide margin. The guy is near god status in that town, even more than Roy was.

Beyond this exciting piece of news, I am even more excited to see how the team roster plays out, ie. who gets minutes. CS himself has said this team is extremely deep and looking at the past 9 years, he doesnt like to use more than an 8 man rotation. He could very very easily go 10 deep this season without batting an eyelash. This begs the question, who is gonna red shirt? Its got to be one or more of our bigs between Wesley,Traylor,Lucas and Peters. My rationale is this; EJ and Naadir or Rio on point. Bmac will see time at the 2 & 3, White and Rio will see time at the 2. Releford starts on 3, Ellis and Young will get minutes at the 4. Withey is our C. Thats 9 guys right there with 4 left to fit in somewhere.
Anyone have any insights/opinions? Im all ears.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

"First, I agree HCBS is The Man."--JayShagged

It was after this point that your brain dysfunction overwhelmed you. :-)

Repeat after me: I, JayShagger, will stick to praising Bill Self, because my head a skull reservoir for excreta unfit for critical analysis. :-)

Michael Luby 7 years, 5 months ago

Oh yah, I was speaking hypothetically about the tax payer thing. I just think that if it happened to be put to a vote in L town that it would pass. And, you are right, Coach seems to be a very grounded guy and would never want us to think that he thinks he is better than us or what ever. Thanks for your insight on the roster, I also cant wait to find out what happens!

Alohahawk 7 years, 5 months ago

I agree pretty much with Jaydogger's reply. It doesn't make much sense for any newcomer to redshirt 'this' coming season. It may seem there's an abundance at the big position this year, but there could easily be more the following season. And that will depend on which additional recruits, if any, sign on. If a top center signs on, only then will a current big see a reason to redshirt, or transfer (but only during the following season, after that recruit arrives). Each newcomer this season will have to prove their mettle during practices, and once that's done, then during games (which is a whole different ballgame, and redshirting wouldn't give that option). And I'm sure Selby and Tharpe would both agree. Perhaps teammates were somewhat easier on them during practices, but gametime was drastically different? Thus, their turnovers. Practicing against them everyday, a player soon recognizes what their teammates can or can't do. But playing the competition in a game presents a whole different scenario. That's why scouting reports are so important, and why conference games are more difficult. Knowing your competition (ie What the other team's players feel comfortable doing and what they avoid doing.)

Finally, if a borderline player redshirts this year, and then decides to transfer, they've lost a year, because they have to sit out that 1st year at their next school anyway. As is the case if Trayor were to decide to transfer.

stm62 7 years, 5 months ago

Who was the MU AD that picked Quinn Snyder over Bill Self ? Had to be one of the top head coach hiring MISTAKES of all time. Just think of the consequences if Coach Self had gone to the Puddytats.

Ron Franklin 7 years, 5 months ago

Good Job Zenger.

Congrats to the Self & Jayhawk family!

Martin Rosenblum 7 years, 5 months ago

"He has no buyout if he leaves KU for another job"

That's pretty funny stuff to point out Gary! .

nuleafjhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

I frequently lip off about how I would coach the football team for half of whatever the current coach is making.

I would NOT make that offer for the basketball team. There is no amount of money that would make me the kind of coach that Bill Self is.

He's a freak.

I hope he's a Jayhawk until he decides to retire.

DCSven 7 years, 5 months ago

Best. News. Ever.

May HCBS stay longer at Kansas than Phog and surpass his record, win more than Wooden at UCLA, surpass Krzyzewski and Summit for all time, and deepen the love affair we fans and his players have with him and he and his family have with Kansas. It's probably too early to send out the call for submissions for sculptors to cast his statue in front of AFH, but can't you just see it, standing as if in conversation with Phog's?

Best quote: ".... but Kansas called."

Funniest hypothetical: "if Calapari left even Kentucky might come calling." That made me laugh out loud. I can't see Self going to a school that, when that happens, would be on probation or facing sanctions, or that Self would compromise his integrity to bend to the Kentucky way.


Martin Rosenblum 7 years, 5 months ago

Memhawks thoughts:

Hey,in comparison,how much will TRob make in the next ten years?

Sounds like DManning will have to wait until 2023 for his "big chance".

I think the "Original Rules of Basketball" should have been some sort of bonus.

Jack Wilson 7 years, 5 months ago

I posted this mistakenly last night on the another thread re: the Frank Mason visit mentioned above.

Frank Mason info from ESPN for anyone interested:

Strengths: Mason is a very confident true point guard. He is a true floor general that can run the team. He pushes that ball and can shoot the 3 with deep range. Weaknesses: Mason is an average to good athlete at best. He can make deep 3's but his shot is more of a set shot. He will need to improve his speed and quickness and work to be a better defender in addition to adding strength. Bottom Line: Mason is a true point guard that has swagger and can run the team and make deep J's. He must work to improve his athletism and add strength but Mason can be trusted with the ball and has great upside.

Here's Ralster's reply: Translate: He's slow, with matador defense. Cannot create his own shot. Cannot blow by anyone. He is a mid-major type, or a Div2 type. A make-no-mistake type of QB, but not a scoring threat. Frankamp vs. Mason in a hypothetical 1on1? Bet farm on Franny.

How is Ralster wrong here? I think he is spot-on. There was some assumptions in past threads that Mason had "speed" -- doesn't sound like it. Reasonable assumption for a guy under 6' .. you would assume he'd be lightning.

The scoop on Mason's recruitment - He is plan G (right, that's behind plans A - F). Mason would be added solely as depth (initially), and as a project. His solid ballhandling skills again highlights the desire for ballhandling. He would be a "break glass in case of emergency" kind of guy - behind Tharpe, Adams, Frankamp, and possibly/hopefully another option (one that weigh 230, about 6'4", also coming to late night). Then, if his potential is realized, he could find the rotation later, perhaps his junior/senior season. But if Self sees his potential lacking, the young man would find the door to open a scholarship. You know, the "player's decision" .. "after discussing my future with coach Self" .. "loved being here" .. "great experience" .. etc. Further, Self, each season, would be recruiting to improve at that spot -- there'll will be other Anthony Barber's on his radar. If Self sees that he really has potential to play, he might catch a redshirt. But Mason would be here to serve a specific, roster-filling purpose.

Sound familiar?


jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago


This is an incredible moment in posting history.

An idiot normally incapable of stringing logical thoughts together has identified an error I have made.

Now, I am not the least bit surprised at my making an error. I make them every once in awhile.

But I am astonished that a board rat that obviously struggles mightily with shoe tying and utensils recognized one of my errors.

I am going to write the Neuroscience Institute at UCSB and see if their brain scanners will work with a brain the size of a dust bunny. :-)

Having lots of fun with you tonight.

Thanks for being my speed bag, as always. :-)

chipmunk1956 7 years, 5 months ago

Right after bonus incentives is this stand alone statment, "He has no buyout if he leaves KU for another job."...

Hummmm..... I wonder if R. C. Buford had them put that in the contract??? Just sayin' !!!

Jack Wilson 7 years, 5 months ago


I guess I can accept it with a smile if Mason is the final add-on in this five man class. But this is different. We have no scholarships open for 2014-15 as it stands, right? Ok, one .. assuming we land a big man in this class, leaving the chances high that either Peters, Traylor, or Lucas leaves. If we land Selden .. Adams might start re-considering if he doesn't play much this season and McLemore doesn't bolt.

Maybe better to give Wesley the 5th scholarship for the year. Or, if Self really sees it as a "tryout" for Mason, then it is truly no harm, no foul ... but for the unsavory nature of the OAF (One And Flush*) mentality. Again, I go back to a topic I've focused on ... ballhandling.

But I don't see it. A really, really low rated, barely three star guy .. slow. Shoots a set shot. He's really a guy we'd play even in an emergency his freshman season? Ugh.

From Ocean's 11 .. "My advice to you, run and hide. That is all I ask. Run and hide." Or something like that. But Self doesn't consult me.

*One And Flush" or OAF: Derived from the One And Done term; First coined by jaybate (some of his best work, I might add) in reference to Merv Lindsay, to underscore the unfortunate mentality when filling out a college basketball roster wherein a player can be disposed of after one season if he not what coach expected, or if he was there solely to fill a roster need for a season. The "flush" can be by blatant over-recruiting (see Pitino who has more commits than scholarships available), by a coach terminating the scholarship, or by subtle nudges couched in terms of being in the best interests of the player where the player makes the "choice" (see Lindsay -- speculation alert).

texashawk10 7 years, 5 months ago

Bill Self sees an insurance policy in Mason, nothing more, nothing less. Frankly at this point, I would rather see Self start to focus on some of the 2014 PG's because Tharpe and Frankamp are going to be a better options at PG in 2013 than anything else Self can scrounge up at this point. Use 1 scholarship for Wesly and the other 2 on bigs, hopefully one of the ones that'll be ready to play immediately be at KU for 3-4 years and the other one onthat 7' from Cameroon as a project player to develop into a shot blocking machine.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

There is some obviousness not being mastered here. Self is establishing a recruiting presence in Virginia with Mason, among other things.

Self is also probably trying a new tack in recruiting to counter the talent embargo by the wrong way types.

Self is probably growing a relationship with the Massanutten Military Academy program. I have long been thinking that the solution to the talent embargo by the summer gamers, is for "right way" types to get involved in sending their kids Academies like this one that can keep the kids year round. These academies can become the modern equivalents of jucos in the days before the summer gamers and the jucos became allied. Frankly, Roy Williams used to use Pem Day in this very way; that was how all the Tom Grant/Jaron Rush stuff hit the fan back in the day. But the problem with that arrangement was a KU alum providing too much assistance with Jaron, not parking him at Pem Day. Maybe Self and staff have a way to make the academies work as a kind of farm system of their own. Maybe signing Mason is a good faith first step in cementing the relationship.

Lastly, it could be another deal like Milton Doyle. It could be that Self is doing an old high school coaching acquaintance a favor.

Hard to say right now, but it will come out in the wash eventually.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Way to master the flipping obvious in the first sentence, Velveeta Peter, and then completely botch it up in the second.

Repeat after me:

a) we can never have too many good players;

b) we need Selden because there is no overlap between his game and anything Frankamp does.

This is not stool science.

Even though you are a bit of a stool. :-)

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

There is an incentive clause I want added to Self's contract.

He gets a $1M for revealing whether he wears a rug, or not, in 2022, if he decides to retire at that point.

If Bill has worn a rug during his KU career to make sure he is the best possible recruiter and coach he can be for The Legacy, then I want him rewarded for having been willing to go to the trouble of having done so.

And when he hangs up his whistle the last time, in his last game in Allen Field House, again, if he wears a rug, then I would like for him walk out to center court, turn around to the student section, tell everyone how much he will miss everyone, but that there is a time when all good things must end. Then I want him to say, "I gave everything I had to this program and university. I left everything on the floor every game except one thing." Then I want him to reach up, rip off his rug, and throw it on the floor in the center jump circle, smile that incredible smile of his on last time as KU's coach, while stroking his bald dome, and say, "And now I am finally leaving that damn thing on the floor, too. Thank you all for a great ride. We made it. Cin and I love you all. Send all mail to Cin and I to Bora Bora for the next five years. Rock Chalk Jayhawk! Go KU!" And he runs off the floor and into the locker room!!!!!

Yeeeee hawwwwwwww!!!!

Go Bill go!

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

I've been sitting around waiting for someone to connect the dots on Notre Dame announcing this week they are ending their football rivalry with Michigan after this season. This signals something a lot bigger than their basketball and minor sports joining the ACC.

Notre Dame is about to do something regarding football realignment after the election that is going to surprise some people.


jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Sister Bernadette, Friar Zenger, have you been to Friday fish fry with the Fathers up in South Bend recently?

Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame and the 8 leprechauns maybe?

Ah, sure'n it would be a good draw on a fine Saturday afternoon with Knute's and Leahy's and Ara's ghost's smilin' down, now wouldn't it?

But only god knows such things, lads and lassies.

Maybe the Irish are just takein' a year to transition their grid iron men into the luck of the ACC.

jaybate 7 years, 4 months ago


You live and write in a sports fantasy matrix that is becoming both embellished and simultaneously exposed in the internet era.


Donations buy influence in the private athletic department.

That influence buys influence with in the university.

The university is one of the largest players in a state's economy and in the legislature, plus it is increasingly one of the largest federal pork conduits in a state.

The state is part of a voting block of states with shared regional political economic interests.

Regional voting blocks are required to punch regional infrastructures through.

Conference alignment has traditionally reflected regional voting agendas on many major political economic issues.

Conference realignment is a process of adjusting those voting blocks to reflect new political economic agendas.

You're just flipping naive, or disinforming, if you think an industry this big and influential in the political economy is not waiting to make realignment moves until after the current election cycle.

I confess. I can't tell if you're as stupid as you appear, or if you are disinforming for fun and profit. Either way, you are making yourself irrelevant.

College sports long ago transitioned from university sports to college sports, inc. Murray Sperber wrote that book in 1990.

College basketball was long ago caught up in the ShoeCo-Summer Game-Agency Complex. Wetzel and Yaeger wrote that book back in 2000.

In the decade since, it transitioned again.

It is now in the thick of the political economic realm and it is subject to the dynamics of that realm.

Oh, and you don't know spit about ND, if you think UM is not as important as Purdue, Navy, and Cheegan State.

Don't you ever get tired of hitting my glove with your face? :-)

P.S.: Everything is political.

ABeesus 7 years, 5 months ago

I'm glad Self will stay.

Self's salary isn't paid by the university, per the article.
But what about his pension?

When he retires, will Kansas taxes pay 80% of his top wage, for life? Also, won't he also get to stack the KS pension with one from Illinois?

I'm curious, because public pensions appear unsustainable in most states.

Self, unlike many, actually earns money for the system. But what a pension(s)!

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Bulletin: the football team stems the tide and remains 1-3 after fighting the University of Bye to a scoreless tie in a non-game.

jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Dayne Crist threw for 400 first half yards, but then the game was called for an existential crisis.

jaybate 7 years, 4 months ago

Wrong again.

You wouldn't know funny from horse manure.

You wouldn't know good writing from excreta.

You wouldn't know insightful analysis from fish molm.

And you're my speed bag.


jaybate 7 years, 5 months ago

Nine Ways to Know the Season Cannot Start to Soon:

  1. The Disclaimerer was identified by President Obama as a sports terrorist and given a jump without a chute somewhere over the Mid Atlantic trench.

  2. JayShagger officially changed his alias to JayShagsHimself.

  3. Through rote memorization HawkKLaw learned to type "I am not bright. Forgive me, please."

  4. "Wrong way" types found worshipping Cthulu in a dark forest outside Mouth of Wilson, Virginia, while shouting, "Self must be denied all recruits."

  5. Waste baskets overflowing at practice facility.

  6. Last country club week party always ends around October 1, then there is a dreadful lull between kegs until October 12th.

  7. Football bye weeks make us realize how much we are using distraction to get by till October 12th.

  8. Jayhawk fans begin sleeping with their basketballs instead of their wives, or girl friends.

  9. Grown men crying, because they still cannot find a basketball game by blind surfing.

HawkKlaw 7 years, 4 months ago

Still upset about me owning you on that other thread? I'd hate to see you lose at something that actually matters :-/

HawkKlaw 7 years, 4 months ago

This is the best news I could have hoped for! Y'all can have your recruiting slump all you want, I'll take the coach that wins 84% of the time for 10 years.

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