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Originally published October 14, 2011 at 03:33p.m., updated October 15, 2011 at 12:50a.m.

KU freshmen Ben McLemore, Jamari Traylor ineligible for 2011-12 season

Kansas freshmen Jamari Traylor, left, and Ben McLemore  watch the Late Night in the Phog festivities from the bench on Friday, Oct. 14, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas freshmen Jamari Traylor, left, and Ben McLemore watch the Late Night in the Phog festivities from the bench on Friday, Oct. 14, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

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Kansas University basketball freshmen Ben McLemore and Jamari Traylor are ineligible for participation during the upcoming 2011-12 season, coach Bill Self announced Friday.

As partial qualifiers, McLemore, a 6-foot-5 guard from St. Louis, and Traylor, a 6-8 forward from Chicago, will be able to practice second semester and be eligible to play in games at KU next season.

Until second semester, they will be unable to take part in any team activities, thus were not allowed to participate in Friday night’s Late Night in the Phog activities.

“The NCAA has legitimate reasons why the ruling is what it is. We don’t agree with the ruling, but we are not saying we are right and they are wrong. We agree to disagree,” Self said. “They’ve been good and responsive and up front in telling us the situation for the most part.

“We’re not happy with it at all. I’m not. I don’t think it’s right. When we recruited these kids, we thought they were full qualifiers without question. ... These are really good young men. We feel they’ve proven themselves to be full qualified status. They (NCAA officials) see different. So we fought. We fought hard. We didn’t win.”

Self told the two players of the final ruling Friday after he learned they could not participate at Late Night.

“We’ve known. I just haven’t shared it for a couple of weeks because we were still holding out hope — appeal, another appeal, then another appeal. It just didn’t work out,” said Self.

“The way we see things is, they are full qualifiers. The NCAA within their rules and judgment have every right to delve into situations. After diving into situations they come up with different conclusions than what we had. Basically in a nutshell, (the NCAA said) the kids should be in college, the kids should be at Kansas, the kids should be working on their academics, but they feel they should have to focus strictly on their academics for a semester. That’s basically it in a nutshell.”

Self said it’s “sad” the two couldn’t participate in Late Night. They did attend.

“I don’t see what that would hurt them being a part of this,” Self said.

Both McLemore and Traylor attended three high schools.

McLemore started his high school career at Wellston High in his hometown. Last year, he attended both Oak Hill Academy in Mouth of Wilson, Va., and Christian Life Center in Houston. Traylor attended Fenger and Julian High Schools in Chicago and IMG Academy in Florida last year.

In September, KU lost freshman power forward Braeden Anderson, who was ruled ineligible to be on scholarship at KU this school year.

The NCAA deemed the 6-foot-8 Okotoks, Alberta, Canada native a partial qualifier, which would make him eligible for financial aid and possibly earn the right to practice second semester but not play in games. However, because of Big 12 Conference policy, all partial qualifiers must be approved by the league’s faculty athletic representatives. Anderson’s case was not approved for aid and not allowed to attend KU.

Traylor and McLemore were approved for aid by the faculty reps.

KU has just eight recruited scholarship players after the loss of the two.

“There’s a lot of people out there who would love to have Thomas Robinson and Tyshawn Taylor as their anchor and point. I’m not going to say poor, pitiful us,” Self said. “Our depth situation will not be the same. You are looking at a guy inside (Traylor) that had a chance to start and play a ton. You are looking at a guy on the perimeter that may be as good an athlete as we’ve recruited on the perimeter (McLemore), at least since Brandon (Rush).

“The way I look at it is, we signed a heck of a recruiting class for next year because you include these guys in next year’s class with guys we hopefully sign this year, it could be a heck of a class.

Comments

Dirk Medema 8 years, 7 months ago

Go look up "partial qualifier". It's really not that difficult, and has been around for years. Nothing really new, and yes there is a difference.

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

Serves them right. 0-3 against the NCAA. We are KU. Stop recruiting folks who can't get in here!

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 7 months ago

So do you know the details? The world is not black and white.

KGphoto 8 years, 7 months ago

Self will coach his way through this mess. I like our starting five. Anyone else smell a COY cooking?

lothario64118 8 years, 7 months ago

You are missing the point blind man. Self cannot continue to recruit players like this regardless of what rules are out there. UNC, Duke, UCONN, don not get hit like KU has been lately. Look at the titles and records these coaches are holding.

lee3022 8 years, 7 months ago

Perhaps you are missing a point also. Since everyone who is here legitimately wants KU to succeed, calling each other names is contra-productive.

There is room to disagree. McLemore did have multiple offers and there does not appear to be anything wrong with his grades. His decision to leave Oak Hill was made after being offered and probably is related to his partial qualifier status.

The coaching staff has recruited kids under one standard and it is clear that that standard has changed. Applying changes retroactively is wrong for the schools and wrong for the student athletes. But the players over the past seven years have been near or at the top of the country for academic progress towards a degree. This does not seem to me to be on the coach.

Finally are you looking for reasons to hate the coach? Perhaps this is the wrong forum for that. The divisive nature of all out attacks contribute nothing to the blog. Consider, please, ways to state your opinions without attacking other commentators and KU officials.

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

COY wouldn't recruit 3 guys who can't qualify for school.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 7 months ago

But MOY would think everything is as simple as its presented. Congratulations your my official MOY. Moron of the Year.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

KG..I have always liked your optimism but there just isn't enough talent or depth on this team. Our consecutive NCAA tournament births could be in jeopardy this year. Absolute best finish = Sweet 16.

lee3022 8 years, 7 months ago

The top four are as good as any team's top four in the country (based partially on last night's showing). The reserves are inexperienced and size challenged. Listen to coach when he says we will be really good by the end of the year. Projections have us currently as a three seed with four more Big XII teams below us (Baylor ahead of us) by ESPN's bracketology. Nadiir Tharp will play a lot of minutes. Perhaps Nico Roberts will as well. Any teammate that can turn Withey into an offensive threat is a potent force.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Are you F'ing kidding me? The NCAA is a JOKE! I can't believe I just saw this story. Are they losing a year of eligibility? Ben McLemore was this years big catch And Jamari Traylor was one of the few wide bodies to relieve TRob. A BIG 0 for this years recruiting. So we have a depleted basketball team to pick up where football left off. I wouldn't blame HCBS if he left. I hate being this negative but there are so few chances to win it all.. And watching UConn win its 3rd last year still makes me sick. Screw this... I have MSG tickets for Nov 15.. Great seats but in handicapped section..pretend you are hearing disabled. Contact me.

lee3022 8 years, 7 months ago

Come one back off the ledge. This is not death to the team. It means some players will have to step up but carrying over to next year we will have experienced depth that we would not have had. The last time we went to Maui we were dumped on. we lost a fair number of games before we became - wait for it - league champion and tournament champion (2005-2006). This year has better stars than that year but not the depth. Even so I am willing to be optimistic along with coach.

GabrielMichael 8 years, 7 months ago

The NCAA just wiped out our entire freshman class...

GoHawks1 8 years, 7 months ago

Not the NCAA's fault. I would question recruiting these guys in the first place. You want to go out on a limb on questionable prep school kids you have to realize that they might not qualify.

kranny 8 years, 7 months ago

Maybe it's because self wants to offer them a chance to get a great education while playing basketball. It isn't always about what's best for ku. Not to mention they play great ball.

kufaninmo 8 years, 7 months ago

No, it's DEFINITELY what's best for KU...

klineisanazi 8 years, 7 months ago

BS....So you think Self is running a charity? He is trying to get the best players who are elgible so he can win as many games as possible. That is his job.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Tharpe at #92 becomes our recruiting gem... Maybe he can prove he is underrated and the extra playing time can only help.

lee3022 8 years, 7 months ago

My recollection was that McLemore changed schools after he was offered. The rules at the time coach offered the three were changed in mid-stream this year. KU is not the only school to lose qualifiers under the new interpretation.

The reality is this was a tough year to recruit. Until we see the next couple of years play out it is impossible to know what we might have done. I am comfortable that the overall excellence of this program will continue under coach's leadership.

Scott Smetana 8 years, 7 months ago

Crap! That's 3 of our recruits that can't play... What gives??!? This news along with us getting beat by 80 points by OU makes for a bad Jayhawk weekend.

I was expecting huge things out of Traylor down low. Without him, we are totally dependent on Withey. However, I think Releford is up for handling the 3 without Ben. Also trying to stay optimistic... being an underdog at times is a good thing.

Robert Brock 8 years, 7 months ago

Releford is going to be at the 4 a lot this year I suspect. Not sure if Wesley, Lindsay or Young have the experience or strength to defend down low.

David Hodges 8 years, 7 months ago

Young is a stud and comes with D1 experience already.

lothario64118 8 years, 7 months ago

Those players are going to have to learn fast. Just like other teams that do it. There will be no benching b/c Self doesn't like it. Maybe Self will wake up for once when he sees his frosh learning like Calipari's do.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 7 months ago

I was just going to say...Didn't Young at LMU avg. something like 9.7 Pts. & 7-something boards?!?!?!

He's certainly capable of backing up at the "4" or "5".

I think Wesley will be the 4th big.

Honestly, even with this TERRIBLE news I think we go 10 deep:

T.Taylor / Tharpe E.Johnson / Teahen Releford / Lindsay Tho. Robinson / K.Young Withey / Wesley

That's the rotation I see with Tharpe and Young getting the most minutes off the bench I suspect.

JacquesMerde 8 years, 7 months ago

Merde. Being an underdog is being an underdog. It doesn't help except perhaps the ego if you accidentally win.

I still can't understand the logic of this decision regarding Traylor and Mclemore.. Didn't they graduate from the last school they attended? Could they take the GED and qualify? I've heard players from other schools who sound really dumb. Are these two a pair of dummies? What gives?

lee3022 8 years, 7 months ago

They both qualified with the testing and the grades. The NCAA has taken a much harder stance this year on players who transfer HS twice or more, seeking to send a message. It happened that KU is part of that message.

Changing the interpretation and applying it retroactively seems wrong on several levels. It is wrong for schools. It is wrong for student athletes and it is wrong for public opinion of the NCAA. How many of us are ready to see super conferences form and have out own tournament? There are billions of dollars waiting for that action. Screw the NCAA.

actorman 8 years, 7 months ago

Yikes. What a great way to start the season.

shottybotch 8 years, 7 months ago

Three players? What gives. I hope they stick around for next year

Eric Dawson 8 years, 7 months ago

Braeden Anderson is already gone. Wanted to stay, bit couldn't afford to without a scholarship. Don't know where he ended up, I'm hopi

Here's a link to the LJW article: http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2011/sep...

Bighebs 8 years, 7 months ago

This is horrible news. That said, how great would it feel for all of KU Nation if we still managed to win the conference title this season?

barackchalkjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

This sucks. Stating the obvious, but we really need to stay away from kids that attend more than one high school.

rockbrooklynchalk 8 years, 7 months ago

so you're saying we should not have recruited Naadir Tharpe, Thomas Robinson, Marcus Morris, Markieff Morris, Brandon Rush? All of those players attended one or more high schools, and I'm happy to have them. Sometimes it works out and other times it doesn't.

Jim Roth 8 years, 7 months ago

In fact, all of our players have attended one or more high schools.

At least, I hope.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

It's all the prep schools that are causing the problems. Academics take a seat behind athletics and there have been multiple instances of cheating at SOME of these schools.

jfos4 8 years, 7 months ago

Way too bad, I feel bad for the kids and for the team. But I'll say this, I think Coach offered them in part because we lost on some other recruits and HCBS was willing to roll the dice they'd be eligible when he signed them. There's no way he didn't think this could be a possibility, it was just a chance he had to take, and sadly it didn't pay off. Oh well, opportunity for others to step up their game and produce! RCJHGOKU!

Horace 8 years, 7 months ago

You're right.

So the real question is wether Self's inability to sign the best recruits was just a fluke or is the beginning of a trend.

Kyle Berthusen 8 years, 7 months ago

Sure, Traylor was that way, but we were recruiting McLemore all year last year, as was a lot of other colleges. He was a late signing, but so were some of our best players a la Josh Selby and Xavier Henry. Also, all signs last year pointed to the Twins and Selby coming back until the draft, so it's pretty hard to hate Self for his late recruiting attempts.

lothario64118 8 years, 7 months ago

Selby and Henry were NOT are best players. Maybe they seemed the best recruits but ended up being bust or just mediocre.

bearclaws 8 years, 7 months ago

Come on, Bill! You and your staff need to get a better handle on qualification and compliance issues. This is happening all too frequently. Get it toge

farnamjayhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Are you serious???...... This happens at all schools. I don't think you're the person to tell Head Coach Bill Self to "get it together". Refrain from referring to him as Bill and know that HCBS will coach this team up like he always does. Robinson and Taylor will be All-Conference, Releford will be a defensive stopper for us which is a vital part of HCBS teams. Johnson will make a huge jump during his Junior year and Withey will finally respond to the best big man coach in the country. We'll have growing pains this year but it's going to be fun to watch them grow as a team and I can't wait for March. RCJHGKU

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

Alot of wishful thinking there. What makes you think Whithey will ever show up. TT is a mess and can't be relied on. Stay off the refer. The original post had it right.

BC5 8 years, 7 months ago

Kansas wins the Big 12 every year, national title in 08, and you are still complaining? Next year's class will be stacked, and we probably have the best player in the conference in T-Rob. Relax. Recruiting goes in cycles. Calipari loads up every year and he still doesn't have a title. To imply Self doesn't have it together just shows how stupid you are.

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

recruiting goes in cycles. How can our blue blood brothers continue to be in the top 20 and we aren't there?

lee3022 8 years, 7 months ago

None of them have seven straight conference titles. That title is earned, unlike the single-elimination tournaments which rarely produce the best team as champion. Every team has cold spells and hot spells and we have all seen (not just for us but every national elite school) those two come together for upsets. It is part of the game.

Nobody else is Kansas. They are wannabes. Nobody has the father of coaching except KU. Nobody has the father of sports medicine except KU. Nobody has the inventor of the game except KU. We are in the hunt every year. We are in the conversation every year. Relax about Calipari. His history will surely catch up with him this year of next as it has in the past. He has not changed his spots. UConn won a title they did not deserve for the lack of competition in the Final Four. No big deal. UConn did not win their conference championship (regular season.) UCLA has a fine tradition but have been absent for several years.

Carter Patterson 8 years, 7 months ago

Can someone explain partial qualifer? Does that mean that KU can still provide scholarships this year for each...unlike Braeden.

Eric Dawson 8 years, 7 months ago

PQ means he did not meet minimal NCAA standards in some category. Some conferences allow PQs w/o issue, the Big 12 does not (was a real point of contention for NU, who wanted PQs to help their CFB recruiting). Excerpt from this article: http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2011/sep... :
"Because of Big 12 Conference policy, all partial qualifiers must be approved by the league’s faculty athletic representatives. Anderson’s case was not approved for aid. Therefore, he will not attend KU."

Today's article does not mention anything about the Big 12 okaying financial aid for these two, but given the tone of the article it may be that they can afford a year on their own dime? We can't really tell, because the issue of financial aid for this year is not addressed at all.

Ashwin Rao 8 years, 7 months ago

Thanks for the explanation! Maybe we should push Big12 to reconsider that rule while the paint is still wet on the other issues. The issue of PQs is affecting us really bad!

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 7 months ago

Earlier articles said they were already approved for scholarships and that's why they started classes. This seems a little different from what happened to Braeden. Is it possible that it makes a difference as to which classes don't meet the qualifications?

miajhwk 8 years, 7 months ago

"The NCAA deemed the 6-foot-8 Okotoks, Alberta, Canada native a partial qualifier, which would make him eligible for financial aid and possibly earn the right to practice second semester but not play in games. However, because of Big 12 Conference policy, all partial qualifiers must be approved by the league’s faculty athletic representatives. Anderson’s case was not approved for aid and not allowed to attend KU.

"Traylor and McLemore were approved for aid by the faculty reps."

lee3022 8 years, 7 months ago

Actually the article does cover the ok for the other two here:

"Traylor and McLemore were approved for aid by the faculty reps."

Coach waited until they were approved before announcing the decisions.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Actually it does... 'Traylor and McLemore were approved for aid by the faculty reps.' Near the bottom.

Chris1955 8 years, 7 months ago

For crying out loud, we had to know this was going to be a problem when we recruited them! Why do some of these high school BB kids pull this three different high school crap?

Did any of our incoming recruits pass the NCAA stamp of approval for this season? This is the year we end our NCAA consecutive tournament streak.

Eric Williams 8 years, 7 months ago

yeah, why do some of these kids try to escape the streets by using basketball? the nerve...

teenagers trust their coaches, teachers, etc. When a school/coach offers adjusted/free tuition and an opportunity to play bball, the player thinks it's on the up-and-up, and only later finds it's an NCAA penalty.

The High Schools that perpetuate this should be flagged and lose the ability to send players to college on scholarships. Maybe then you would have stuff being done the right way from the beginning.

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 7 months ago

There weren't any money problems (adjusted/free tuition). It was strictly academic.

Cmill1221 8 years, 7 months ago

You are kidding right? Not make the tourney? How spoiled are you?

TwistedFish31 8 years, 7 months ago

Dont be fooled into thinking this troll is a KU fan. Just another kitty kat punk rattling your cage.

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

just because he doesn't say what you want to hear you say he is anti-ku. Get a grip and look at reality. We are in bad shape. This will be Self's best coaching job and he has himself to blame. We are KU and we deserve better than this. We rarely rank high in recruiting. So what is the deal? This poster has it right. Stop complaining about him and realize what is really going on.

mae 8 years, 7 months ago

So our recruiting class is... likely to leave entirely and we are left with next year. Great suspense all off season and then nothing.

Tad Shurtz 8 years, 7 months ago

Blessing in disguise-ish. Both players will benefit from the NCAA-imposed "red shirt" year. Plus, people won't be able to bitch when Teahan sees the floor.

sportjunky 8 years, 7 months ago

+1 That's a great point. I hope that they stick around!

Lonnie Ross Dillon 8 years, 7 months ago

Won't be a redshirt...I believe they lose the year of eligibility, but I'm not entirely sure

Marc Frey 8 years, 7 months ago

I read somewhere that Anderson, if he stayed, would have all four years available starting in 2012-2013. So we can asume that would be the same for these two.

bradynsdad 8 years, 7 months ago

Taylor Elijah Releford Robinson Withey Who backs these guys up?

Pat Sullivan 8 years, 7 months ago

I like Taylor Elijah Releford Robinson Young

Won't be the biggest team on the floor but they will be the quickest. Glass half full approach to this. Self normally takes his time to decide on his core group for Big 12 play. This will force him to extend playing time and also give some guys a chance to prove they can play. Everything to gain...nothing to lose at this point and Self has COY written all over this if he can compete.

Of course Jack Harry and Kietzman will say that Self should not be awarded since he recruited the very guys that are benched. Sure Jack (ass) and Dumb (ass)...Self knew they would be ineligible...that's why he recruited them.

chriz 8 years, 7 months ago

Yep, pretty pathetic recruiting job this year WITH THE EXCEPTION OF Naadir Tharpe.

Who recruited these guys, anyway? Was it Townsend? I'm starting to sense that Townsend is losing it, so I wouldn't be surprised if it were him.

If anyone needed to get fired, this is the perfect opportunity for Bill Self to do just that. This doesn't cut it for Kansas Basketball. Meanwhile, let's be thankful that we're in the Big XII, where we can continue to make the rest of the league our "female dog" and set ourselves up with a nice high seed for the Big Dance.

frank mcguinness 8 years, 7 months ago

HCBS deserves some blame on this one because he has a responsibility to add players that are eligible to the team and realistically the buck stops with him. I still think he is the best coach in the nation but he totally fubared this one.

jhyphene 8 years, 7 months ago

+1. Completely agree. Buck stops with him. Gamble or not, this didn't work out the way he wanted. Whether these guys are getting screwed by NCAA ruling or not, HCBS has to reload every year and this year he whiffed. It's rare that he whiffs, but he did here. And still, wouldn't trade him for any coach in America. So coach fubared this one, and we move on. Would be GREAT to get thru this season undefeated at home and as conference champs. All starts tonight.

Keven Courtney 8 years, 7 months ago

No one a believer anymore? I believe we have won the last 7 big 12 championships, I believe our coach is easily a top 3 coach in the game. We will make the NCAA tournament we will win the big 12. People you are forgetting everyone comes to Lawrence this year. The big 12 championship still must be won in our house by beating our team and by beating our loud ass fieldhouse. So what those kids sit out a year guess what team they are on next year...... They are playing for KU and not someone else. That's why he recruits them so that they play for us instead of against us. This is why Bill is the coach and we are all fans. To back our team up an support them. Be a freaking fan and not someone who complains that they aren't playing. This year we make it 8 in a row.

chriz 8 years, 7 months ago

Dude, seriously, cut it out with this "be a fan" crap. Pardon us if we believe in accountability.

Mike Skiles 8 years, 7 months ago

-1

Troll speak.

Lets fire HCBS right now, what a bum, terrible at recruiting, its the end of the world for KU, yada yada yada.

LOL

chriz 8 years, 7 months ago

And a big -1 to you, too. Weak and putting-words-in-my-mouth speak. I mentioned nothing of firing Bill Self, but whatever helps you prove your crappy-ass point.

Jayhawk1116 8 years, 7 months ago

I love him too, but top 3 coaches don't lose to mid-majors in the tournament on a regular basis.

Joe Baker 8 years, 7 months ago

No, they win conference and national championships.

ku_foaf 8 years, 7 months ago

A lot of coaches would kill to have Self's record. Remember we did get to the Elite 8 last year, VCU beat 5 teams & N Iowa was in the top 10 for a lot of the season. It is always disappointing to lose, but lets not lose perspective. I can remember Knight's Indiana teams losing in the early rounds. Roy lost in the 2nd round alot in the mid 90s.

He has done an amazing job. Problems with eligibility, and recruiting, do happen to great coaches.

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

Eventually you have to ask, why does HCBS's team lose to undertalented teams? I don't know why. But they need to figure it out. We are a joke across the nation.

Steve Brown 8 years, 7 months ago

who are the two ahead of him in your book? Seriously I can't name one of them.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 7 months ago

Um...Don't be a "homer"....It took me all of 2 seconds to think of Krzyseski & Izzo....let alone Roy. Calhoun? Boeheim?

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Last years flame out took away some of the glitter...Calhoun won his 3rd with a team we would have beaten 7 out of 10 tries. And we let VCU take it away. Still hurts.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years, 7 months ago

Not good. But maybe we can appeal somehow and they start late like "that one guy" last year (I won't name names) that bolted for the NBA after one average season with us.

kevinw2434 8 years, 7 months ago

That is just ridiculous. No way KU doesnt make the tourney. Mizzou made it last year being 8-8 in conference. Self will have them in position to win the Big 12 again. Trust in Self.

JHawk74 8 years, 7 months ago

Mark my words on this. We will win the Big 12 and make the tournament. We have 7 solid players. Possibly 8 if Teahan steps up. We will play a 7-8 man rotation like most colleges in the country. We got spoiled to have 10 solid players the last few years. At Illinois Self only have 6-7 solid players and they made the Big Dance. ROCK CHALK!

Gregor Southard 8 years, 7 months ago

And Illini kicked Roy Williams' butt in the Sweet 16!

selfishhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

i think we are all freaking out because (a) the Big 12 will be tougher this year with the round robin format and (b) Self didn't do much in the dance when we were "spoiled" with 10 players. Tough to imagine anything better than middle of the Big 12 and being on the bubble come March. If Robinson gets hurt, we probably have our first losing season.

Kevin John 8 years, 7 months ago

Why did you have to transfer Royce Woolridge??

We need you!!

I sure pray that walk-on tryouts bring a Bigtime Player. Not holding my breath though. Any 7 food inter-national students walking around campus?

chriz 8 years, 7 months ago

Actually, Self encouraged him to transfer.

MDHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Surely there was more to it than just going to three different high schools. By that logic, I wouldn't want to be a military kid interested in playing collegiate sports. As long as they graduated and fulfill any academic requirements, I'm not sure why it should matter. If someone could fill me in regarding the NCAA's concerns, I would appreciate it. It seems like this kind of rejection has been happening a lot lately, not just with KU recruits.

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 7 months ago

It appears that some classes aren't accepted or don't meet the requirements established by the NCAA. When these kids switch schools they often are not aware when important classes aren't recognized by the new school so the end result is that even though they graduate, they didn't complete all the classes required for NCAA academic achievement. They have also been cracking down because diploma mills were starting to spring up all over. Over time they will probably be less severe. The timing has just been bad for us.

MDHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Fair enough...thanks for the insight. I can see how that could be a problem.

CloveK 8 years, 7 months ago

Struggle to make the tournament? Really? This is still KU. and under Coach Self I would never count us out. This could be a very special year if everything clicks, might not be pretty but it wasn't in '88 either.

Excited to see how we do in the tough preseason.

RCJH

Make_Ur_Free_Throws 8 years, 7 months ago

Agreed.

While I'm disappointed that 3 players are not going to play, I am excited about the others who will play...and if they struggle, then so be it; that's how it goes sometimes in life! You're right CloveK

"This is still KU!"

Gregor Southard 8 years, 7 months ago

Spot on. '88 team was "thin." Starting center, Branch, academically ineligible mid- season. Starting forward, Marshall, season ending knee injury. Sixth man kicked off team... Worked out pretty well

Steve Gantz 8 years, 7 months ago

Good analogy to the '88 team. Of course '88 had the man Manning! I think he'd have a Hall of fame career had he not been hurt so often. I don't think TRob can compare to Danny, but I hope I'm wrong!

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

please take the blinders off. We are 3 years removed from a national championship and we cant bring anyone who can qualify. I love the passion of KU fans but sometimes you need to be realistic.

Robin Smith 8 years, 7 months ago

you don't know what you're talking about

RockChalk26 8 years, 7 months ago

Bummer! This is a epic fail on their parents. 3 high schools in 4 years is no way to prepare you child for college.

swoodberry 8 years, 7 months ago

I love Coach Self, but Coach hit the recruiting trail before May and you wont have to recruit guys on the Mich Downs high school plan.

Eric Dawson 8 years, 7 months ago

HCBS has always been and I would think always will be out recruiting at every opportunity. He certainly was this past year.

The problem he ran into this past year was, as always, being honest with the top star kids he was recruiting.

Telling them they would have to earn their playing time in practice. Telling them that -- especially given the likelihood of an NBA owners lockout -- he had no idea if Markieff and Marcus would stay for their senior year.

Same story with Selby once his injury complicated the issue even further.

I know I heard those points mentioned in more than one interview/article some where in the last 6 months as being a real issue in recruiting this last year.

Makes it tough to get top kids in today's game when there is such uncertainty, and everybody with any major level skill at all is being told be their entoruage that they can be a "1&Done" -- but they need starting and starring playing time their freshman year to do it.

It's going to be an interesting year...

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

you speak quite a bit for HCBS. what do you know? Not much more that the rest of us. give me your opinion, fine. start throwing words into others mouth then I dismiss you

WilburNether 8 years, 7 months ago

I hope this is another sign that the NCAA is getting serious about dealing with these basketball factories that masquerade as "prep schools."

Too bad for the two kids, who probably received bad advice and didn't know any better.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 7 months ago

Its official,

The incoming class is the worst recruting class for KU in 20+ years.

This years class needs to be top 3, considering how many scholarships we have availiable and immediate playing time open, anything less will be a huge dissappointment

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 7 months ago

I don't care if we get anyone else but Muhammad. If we get Muhammad, along w/ Perry Ellis and these two come in next season along with Peters....and most likely all but Releford, T.Rob & T.Taylor returning....that's a good team next year albeit mostly inexperienced.

Hoping that the timing of this doesn't sour Tarc too :(

Steffie Sissoko 8 years, 7 months ago

Where are the fans when you need them? This is one year...KU has dominated the last 10 years. Bill knows what he is doing and will do a great job with who he has. We will be in the BIG 12 tourny and we will win it. There does need to be some adjustments in the recruitment but we will be fine. Teahan is a shooter and will make up for Morningstar and Reed.

Robert Brock 8 years, 7 months ago

Um, make up for Morningstar and Reed, who were starters and heavy contributers in the rotation for years? Ok... Self will have this team playing solid basketball by Feb or March, but it's going to be a rought start to the season. Probably would have been either way with so many new faces.

chriz 8 years, 7 months ago

Uh, don't all Big 12 teams play in the tourney? Am I missing something? Are we in danger of getting booted from the Big 12 because of Traylor and McLemore? :)

And since when can a fan not call it like he sees it?! Our recruiting has sucked recently! Someone needs to go. Self is an awesome coach, and I believe we'll still win the Big 12 and get to the Big Dance, but that's just not good enough for me. If this were any other season, Texas would stomp all over us.

Robert Brock 8 years, 7 months ago

The staff could really use a younger assistant, someone that can connect with recruits, has deep AAU connections, etc. The staff does a good job of recruiting already, but that could be very beneficial.

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

so HCBS's plan was to recruit 3 guys who wouldn't qualify? Great idea

zturner29 8 years, 7 months ago

wow this is gonna be one iffy season. This has to be Self's worse recruiting year, I wasn't too pleased with it before and now this!

drnater 8 years, 7 months ago

and i thought the football fans were about as fairweather as they got. jeez, ya'll take the cake, cracker, and the box of runts. It cant be just the fact they went to 3 high schools. Michael Beasley went to 4 different high schools and was still cleared to play. We have a solid group, and the rotation is usually only 8 deep, unless someone gets in foul trouble. Late Night hasnt even started and everyones freaking out. Starting lineup 1.Taylor 2.Johnson 3.Releford 4.Young 5.Robinson first 3 off the bench Tharpe Wesley Withey

remember Young, Wesley, and Releford have all been mentioned to possibly playing multiple positions. :No need to worry, after all we have won 7 in a row, there was even that new rotation of guys after that one team won the National Championship. Rock Chalk, bring on the competition!!!!

chriz 8 years, 7 months ago

I'm with you, drnater. We will be FINE this year in the Big XII. I think we'll win it outright by at least a couple of games. The Big Dance is another story, but Big XII is a piece of cake. I DO think that our recruiting has sucked recently, but we have a great coach and we play in a crappy conference, so last year's recruiting class isn't going to kill us. And we will have plenty of depth, provided no one gets injured.

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

Do we get more wins for winning 7 in a row?

Robin Smith 8 years, 7 months ago

do you think you're going to get a clue or make a worthwhile point by posting the same uneducated stuff over and over again?

Jeremy Wilhelm 8 years, 7 months ago

+1 trillion - I've never seen so many people flip on a guy like people on this board are flipping on HCBS. I for one am not worried. The sky was falling last year too, and the year after the NC, yet all Coach managed to do was put together 30 win, Big 12 champion teams. Let's see where this season goes. I guarantee it will be fun, and I plan to love every minute of every game.

Steve Reigle 8 years, 7 months ago

This link has a pretty good description of the requirements and what "partial qualifier" means.

http://www.bulldognews.net/NCAA_acability.html

To McLemore and Traylor, I hope they hang in there. We're sure behind them and look forward to seeing them play next season.

Toto_the_great 8 years, 7 months ago

So Braeden Anderson was a partial qualifier but was not approved by the Big 12 for aid. Why was he not but the other two were? Anyone?

jay381 8 years, 7 months ago

I had the same question when I read PQ. Do we know if the faculty reps of the Big 12 will not dish out the same restrictions they did for Anderson? And I would add if not why was Anderson given the penalty? The article I read when he had to leave indicated it was a Big 12 decision he could not scholarship funds and practice next semester. It that had been granted based on the article I read he would still be at KU. As I read the tea leaves based on this article there could not have been a Big 12 decision this quickly. I hope I am wrong.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Traylor and McLemore were approved for aid by the faculty reps. Anderson not. No reason given..

Stephan123 8 years, 7 months ago

It will be more challenging with depleted numbers. Hopefully, the remaining players work well as a team and rise to the challenge.

ParisHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Three guys were partial qualifiers. "Big 12 rules stipulate partial qualifiers must be approved by the league's faculty athletic representatives." These eminent greybeards gave Braeden the Canadian the shaft. The other two were accepted, which means they get to stay but not play this year. Same would have happened to Braeden if the greybeards had been clement.

Self probably knew about the NCAA ruling and was waiting for the greybeards to approve before announcing anything.

I suspect things have tightened up in the last few years, otherwise Brandon Rush et al. would have had similar problems.

While I stand with the Self supporters, three partial qualifiers out of four recruits is a lot. We just used up most of our margin for error for the whole season. Won't stop me from rooting for the team...

lee3022 8 years, 7 months ago

I believe that is three of six, not four. It is still a shock but when the NCAA changed the rules and applied them retroactively there is no appeal. Big brother has spoken.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 7 months ago

Let's stop the blame game here. Enough to go around.

We know our roster. It is what it is.

Time for hoops to begin.

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

thank you and t hey stink but that is just my opinion

Eric Williams 8 years, 7 months ago

For one second stop blaming the kids. It's not like their transferring from Blue Valley North to Blue Valley West to Blue Valley Northwest.

Most of these kids come from tough situations, poverty, homelessness. If you get evicted, you find a new home and thus a new school. Not to mention you have high schools acting as basketball factories and taking advantage of the kids' situation.

It's KU's job to make sure they have a clean record. It's the NCAA's job to make sure High School's aren't abusing the system.

But quit blaming the kids.

SoCalAlum 8 years, 7 months ago

How does this ruling affect their # of years of eligibility?

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 7 months ago

No effect. They are essentially redshirting, except that they can't practice until first semester next year and start playing after the semester break.

apeoples410 8 years, 7 months ago

Ok. So the news is not good but I, for one, am very excited about this season! Very little expectations, with 4 solid starters in TRob, Tyshawn, Elijah, Releford, and one with a ton of potential in Whithey. I'm excited for Elijah and Releford to get the minutes and show why they were recruited to KU in the first place.

Ben/Jamari,

Stick it out fellas! You will be rewarded for your hard work next year! Your true colors will be shown this year in how you handle the adversity.

Rock Chalk!

Jayhawk1116 8 years, 7 months ago

Bill Self will be Coach of the Year in the Big VII this year. I'll guarantee it. He'll probably still lose to a mid-major in the tournament, but he'll win the award.

Jayhawk1116 8 years, 7 months ago

Whoops, that XII, not VII. I hate Romans.

Alex Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

Haha I thought you were making a statement about more teams bolting.

Jayhawk1116 8 years, 7 months ago

Well, the way things have been going you never know!

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 7 months ago

That was pretty funny when you posted Big VII...should have ran with it!!!

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 7 months ago

That was pretty funny when you posted Big VII...should have ran with it!!!

lothario64118 8 years, 7 months ago

Yes, because winning the B12 is so grand compared to advancing in the NCAA tourney. VCU can have their FF. We'll keep our beloved B12 title. Yippie!

frank mcguinness 8 years, 7 months ago

So we don't rebuild we reload huh? Looks like this year hcbs put some blanks in the gun.

BTW SoCalAlum, Pura Vida!

SoCalAlum 8 years, 7 months ago

y tu, Rooster - Excellent recognition, especially out of context.

brooksmd 8 years, 7 months ago

Boy, I would've been screwed if I'd been a big time baller in high school. I attended 6 different schools because my dad was in the Navy.

Alex Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

Booooooo. Too bad the NCAA has no credibility these days otherwise I would have just accepted this ruling.

Bill Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

Does this open the door for some excellent walk-ons?

Alohahawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Yep. The Hawks definitely need some defensive walk-ons to help during practice sessions. Who knows, maybe they'll find a gem in the rough who also has some offensive capabilities.

As for the negativity surrounding Coach Self's recruiting abilities, yes, I'm disappointed with the end results with this class, but I don't doubt Self's desire and the effort he puts in to accomplish his goals. Articles from the LJW and the recruiting boards mention constantly that he is out there recruiting such and such players. He always seems to be on the road, even during the BBall season, visiting recruits. I doubt any coach puts in more effort year after year. With Peters and Ellis in the fold, and if Tarczewski decides on KU, the 2012 class should be ranked in the top ten. Add any of the others KU is after and it's icing on the cake. Doesn't help for the coming season, but remember how Roy's recruiting classes were pretty much every other year, good to poor?

Self had this year's team lined up nicely, till the twins and Selby jumped ship. So, how could he plan ahead for that to happen? Promise recruits that those three wouldn't be coming back? That's how KU ended up on the short end of the stick this go-round. Self was left hanging, grabbing for anything he could to meet the team's needs. Even at such a late hour, the results he achieved were actually very good, if not for the disqualification factor wiping three off the board.

I always waited at the north entrance to the fieldhouse, hours before each BB game started, and never (and I stress "never") left till the last tick of the game was complete. I'm not a fair weather fan. I've always backed the Jayhawks 100%, win or lose. So, disagree if you want, but, "In Self I'll Trust." The 2011-2012 season is here, so take what there is and support it. RCJHGKU!!

jaymar74 8 years, 7 months ago

Once again most of you hit the panic button and cry, "the sky is falling!" Let's enjoy the season for what it will be, a team coming together over time, working their butts off and making the NCAA's with no huge spotlight on them. It will be much like the team that Self took to the elite eight from Tulsa. Maybe this year we upset someone in the tournament, how fun would that be. Allen fieldhouse is still Allen, unless we all decide to give up now.

Steve Brown 8 years, 7 months ago

sorry for personal request here, what channel is metro sports in KC, does Everest Cable system carry Late Night?

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 7 months ago

I've seen a little Self bashing here, which doesn't surprise me. These things happen, and it's exactly why it's so hard to stay on top. Carolina and Duke have both had sub-.500 years in the last 15 years. And we all know about the struggles Kentucky had in the '90s. And how about the state of Indiana basketball. We should be proud of what Coach Self has done, and this rebuilding year that will probably still result in 20+ wins! Assuming these guys are both around in 12 months, we are going to have a really nice freshman class next year, especially if Tarc and another top player sign. ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!!!!

Mike Barnhart 8 years, 7 months ago

I trust Coach Self will handle this the right way:

  1. Mold the players he's got into the best team they can be.
  2. Look in the mirror - lazy/late recruiting fueled this problem.
  3. New philosophy - Build a base with "tough as nails" 3&4-star guys like Reed, Morningstar, Darnell Jackson and Thomas Robinson. Then add superstars that L O V E Kansas basketball. Not mercenaries but loyal Jayhawks like Wayne Simien and Jacque Vaughn.

ajhk 8 years, 7 months ago

Without the mercenaries we would not have won the last NC. Nor would we have had the past few great regular seasons. Look, some of these guys weren't in love at first sight but most if not all left with much respect and love for KU. Not every young ball player knows what KU has to offer them but they realize it when they get here. Bring 'em in, we'll turn 'em.

The recruiting wasn't lazy. We had large numbers of top prospects nearly hooked but they went elsewhere at the last minute largely because playing time was questionable. We just missed out.

Ann Oneill 8 years, 7 months ago

Well, somebody call the WHAAAAAMBULANCE!!!!!!! Sure, it's disappointing that they cannot play, but they can practice starting in December and suit up next year. The sky is not falling!

Mike Barnhart 8 years, 7 months ago

Rarely happens. These guys will probably go JuCo or D-2.

Steve Brown 8 years, 7 months ago

Randy Paush put it best: "The brick walls are not there to keep us out; the brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. The brick walls are there to stop the people who don't want it badly enough. They are there to stop the other people!"

rob4lb 8 years, 7 months ago

Play with fire and eventually you will get burned. KU understands the risks when recruiting these players. Waiting for key recruits to get cleared by the NCAA has been an annual occurrence in Lawrence going back to Brandon Rush. It is frustrating that the NCAA takes so long to make a determination. It is not fair to the athletes. With all of that said, it should be fun to watch this year's version of the Jayhawks with a veteran point guard and potential All- American in the front court. Some of last year's role players could make a big contribution so all is not lost.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Recruiting what players? Key recruits? Other than Ben, the rest were marginal at best. They were here to provide minutes. We couldn't find eligible 1 and 2 star recruits? These guys won't even get experience. 0 minutes of on-court experience. We'd be better off w/juco players. Next year will be worse unless something changes... Peters and Ellis will not match the talent leaving.

Ashwin Rao 8 years, 7 months ago

Most of these recruits don't become a factor the first year, so this is not that bad of a loss for this year. If they can muscle up and do the right thing, we can still be fortunate to have them the next year! RCJH!

Hank Cross 8 years, 7 months ago

I'll look at it like this:now Travis and EJ will get all the shots and minutes they want.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 7 months ago

Seems like we get what we want, right? I'd still like a touch of depth.

CaramelMacchMan 8 years, 7 months ago

On top of all this.

Lawrence R. (Bubba) Cunningham who said NO to KU as AD position, said YES to UNC.

Ahh not a good start to this weekend.

Bill Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

Also, does this mean their mamas have to move back home?

blindrabbit 8 years, 7 months ago

Been saying all along, Self is not recruiting the right players. Loading up on kids from the intercity Eastern urban areas and avoiding recruiting the West Coast kids. Roy did well out there and we had few discipline and eligibility problems. Traylor and McLemore and the kid from Canada pretty much decimate Self's recruiting efforts this past year.

Ardy Dehdasht 8 years, 7 months ago

We still have a solid 8-9 man rotation. anything beyond that.... God is good.

Ardy Dehdasht 8 years, 7 months ago

Plus, if a team like Butler can make it to the NCAA finals 2 years in a row (limited talent and recruiting) we can go long ways... its all mental and this is where 18-22 year old boys need to become men.

lothario64118 8 years, 7 months ago

and that solid rotation will be what next year? all those experienced players. life will be grand.

i don'gt give a shat about the B12 title. so what. i'd prefer advancing far into the tourney, past te hE8 with a great core of players. cockiness and lack of discipline of the coach resulted in KU's repeated early exits.

glb1110 8 years, 7 months ago

So Kansas has an "off year" when it looks more and more that the real cheaters in UCONN and Kentucky are favored to win anyways. We will be competitive in the Big 12 and honestly will do just fine in the tournament. In HCBS we trust. But if memory serves right after the 2008 tourney win we returned two with sheron and cole. Hmm sounds alot like this year with TRob and Taylor.. Think we wil do just fine when people think we should suck. Pressure off only means more fun for the student athletes. However how awesome will the recruit/ new players be next year. Ellis, Mclemore, Anderson, Traylor, and maybe KT and others. Rock Chalk Baby. Maybe TROB comes back and we KILL IT.

Brian Powell 8 years, 7 months ago

yeah we may lose some depth, but I still like TT, Trob, EJ, Releford, Withey, even Teahan coming off the bench.. Naadir will be good...

THE SKY IS NOT FALLING :P

lothario64118 8 years, 7 months ago

idiot. seriously. all major D-1 programs are laughing right now. KU lost 3 recruits. only St John and Lavin is not laughing at us.

You are a moron.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

I should clarify, the moron comments were uncalled for and it's probably not true that all D1 programs are laughing at us.

kusports1 8 years, 7 months ago

name calling is just childish and lame. Try growing up and then come back with legitimate info. D1 programs laughing at KU.....not likely.

Brian Powell 8 years, 7 months ago

barring injuries or suspensions we'll still be good, dear sir, and you will eat your words. :)

hawkman8950 8 years, 7 months ago

what's the point of recruiting players who end up either ineligible or have some gaffs they have to work through in order to become eligible after the first semester is done and over with. Sure there is ensuring the future but why even bother with "student"-athletes who you will come to find out later are ineligible?

lee3022 8 years, 7 months ago

Perhaps you could lend to coach Self your crystal ball that tells the future. Hindsight is wonderful but somewhat useless. I am sure, as coach said, that he believed each would qualify.

ryanw 8 years, 7 months ago

Maybe they should focus more on Kentucky (caliparie) then on KU.

lothario64118 8 years, 7 months ago

Calipari ins't getting busted so far is he? There has been more than enough time to bust him. What a laughing stock we are turning into.

Hey Indiana........can we join you??? Sweet.

ryanw 8 years, 7 months ago

I thought calipari under investigation for something?

ryanw 8 years, 7 months ago

I'm surprise that NCAA let Calipari coach at any school. Of his reputation at every school coaches.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 7 months ago

Um....Kanter JUST LAST YEAR?!?!?!?! Are you freaking kidding me?!!?!?! WAY worse in having been paid as a professional and they tried to hide it. I was shocked that they weren't somehow disciplined.

lothario64118 8 years, 7 months ago

Let's see...UNC continues to get stellar recruting classes. UCONN same as well. UK w/o a doubt has. Duke of course. KU? Embarrassment.

Time to rethink your recruits Self or better yet hire some top recruiters. KU is not winning the top eligible players.

There is no reason for this kine of year. A 'down" year is one thing but all 3 recruits ineligible? Damn.

ryanw 8 years, 7 months ago

Ku doesn't pay pay their players, unlike some other schools. Or don't have to take an ACT test.

lothario64118 8 years, 7 months ago

Last I checked the SAT was the more difficult test, not the ACT. Has it changed ever?

ryanw 8 years, 7 months ago

I was aiming toward Derrick Rose. I'm pretty sure the big issue with him is that he didn't take the ACT. Correct me if I"m wrong.

lothario64118 8 years, 7 months ago

Last I checked the SAT was the more difficult test, not the ACT. Has it changed ever?

Alohahawk 8 years, 7 months ago

+1 to the 10th power (But I'm not claiming that I was a math major.)

Off year recruiting because of what I mentioned in an above post. KU is in very good shape for the 2012 class. Very good possibilities for the 2013 class. With lots of schollies offered in both years.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

Well... if we somehow get T Rob to come back for another year, we'd be lookin pretty good with Perry Ellis and hopefully some other recruits

caddie733 8 years, 7 months ago

I think given T Rob's family situation, he would be the one player that I hope has a great year and is able to get drafted high and make some good money playing this game. I know we all want players to stay for 4 years, but sometimes it is better for them to move on.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 7 months ago

Having said that, given the way the lockout's looking......was probably pretty smart to come back for this year.

Hammertoe 8 years, 7 months ago

99% of the college sports fans in the cournty are engrossed in FOOTBALL, the money sport. Why would blue chip high school football recruits want to come to KU? So they can take a back seat to a handful of bball players that are treated like rock stars? Wake up. The college sports world is changing.... More fans will be watching the KU OU football game than any KU basketball game this year.

Alohahawk 8 years, 7 months ago

I still find it hard to believe that college football, which has only 12 - 14 games each season, has more money spent on it than basketball, which has 40 or so games each season.

As of tonight, (Late Night) college basketball is on the minds of quite a few college sports fans. Not just football. I guess I'm that 1% which isn't engrossed in football.

So, "fans" is the key word. I admit I haven't watched one football game (NCAA or NFL), with the exception of KU's football games for nearly 36 years (after I graduated from KU). But you're probably right. I'll be watching the KU vs OU game, if it's available in Hawaii, which is questionable. The Jayhawks are the only football team (college or NFL) I'd ever spend a dime to watch. As far as I'm concerned, tuning in to any other football team is like watching a bunch of knock-your-opponents-brains-out bums, which is about as exciting as pro-wrestling fake head slams and their ignorant ranting and ravings. Ho-Hum!

But KU has one of the best, if not the best basketball support groups in the college ranks, of which I am one. And I never miss a KU basketball game, as long as it's televised or available on the internet, or in person if they play in Hawaii (Work permitting). And I do watch other college basketball teams play (on TV only). My time and money is spent on something I enjoy watching, not what I feel is a boring waste of time and intelligence (i.e. football, pro-wrestling).

In other words, I would argue with you regarding the total number of fans who watch KU basketball over KU football over an entire season, and probably even for any one game. I would hazard a guess that there will be a lot more fans watching a lot more KU basketball games (40 or so) all season than there are watching the total football games (12 or so) all season. When KU plays OU in a basketball game, at home or away, I bet there are more fans watching the KU basketball game, maybe even twice as many, as there will be watching the KU football game against OU. KU is the Mecca of college basketball, not football.

caddie733 8 years, 7 months ago

I don't think it is too hard to believe that football makes more money with less games because a typical football stadium can hold anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 fans whereas a basketball arena normally maxes out at the 15,000 to 20,000 range. Football tickets are also usually more expensive.

Alohahawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Forget the number of people in attendance at a KU game, either football or basketball. My primary argument refers to Hammertoe's statement that more fans would be watching, not just attending, the KU vs OU football game than would watch a KU basketball game. My analogy is about the "number" of people watching the games, which is where advertising dollars come from on TV. No one will ever convince me KU has a larger fanbase for football than it does for basketball. Allen Fieldhouse sells out every game, and could probably sell nearly double the tickets if there were room for the fans. Those close enough to attend but can't get tickets are forced to watch it on TV, if available. Therefore, there are more spectators watching KU basketball than KU football. Especially when the football team is being trounced each week.

Hammertoe 8 years, 7 months ago

What channel is the KU OU football game on?

Woody Cragg 8 years, 7 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

ajhk 8 years, 7 months ago

Didn't Mica Downs attend like 35 high schools? And unfortunately he was eligible.

ajhk 8 years, 7 months ago

The sky has officially fallen. For the remaining players... make the most of this boys, you get all the playing time you'll ever want.

Someone give Withey a dose of white wolf blotter and "guide" him into believing he's got an insatiable "Beast Mode." Maybe Juju can be his trip leader.

In the end, I believe in the players we have. I just hope we don't have many injuries.

Robert Brock 8 years, 7 months ago

Three ineligible players in the same recruiting class? KU is not doing well. Who is in charge of recruiting? Fire that guy!

squawkhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Who cares? It's football season and we're going to kick some OU tail tomorrow.

caddie733 8 years, 7 months ago

The starting 5 can compete with just about anyone...I think the biggest issue is what will happen if 1 of those 5 get injured. That could make for a very difficult season. Usually, depth is not an issue at KU, but I can only pray that all the players on this year's team stay healthy.

Eric Williams 8 years, 7 months ago

you're overlooking the fact that Ohio St. had 3 seniors and a Freshman All-American.

While I would like to have depth, I think this will be better for some of our recruits that have sat on the sidelines for 2 years. The message will be, "we're going to have a short rotation, 6-8 players" and the guys will need to produce or find their way back to the bench next year.

Eric Williams 8 years, 7 months ago

you're overlooking the fact that Ohio St. had 3 seniors and a Freshman All-American.

While I would like to have depth, I think this will be better for some of our recruits that have sat on the sidelines for 2 years. The message will be, "we're going to have a short rotation, 6-8 players" and the guys will need to produce or find their way back to the bench next year.

Jeeveshawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Needless to say, this is bad news for jayhawk fans. I was expecting us in to rise through the ranks throughout the duration of the year and be a number one seed in the tourney. And to make a deep run to the final four. Now we will be a two seed or possibly a three seed and make a run to the sweet 16 or the elite 8.
I still see us as the claimers of the B12 crown.

djhawk75 8 years, 7 months ago

Well, the rotation will be easy to figure out this year.

Self's freshmen do not have a history of faring well by the time conference play comes around, so this could become a good thing later if these recruits decide to stay for following year. That would be the best thing for these kids to do, but the grass will probably be greener over someone else's fence.

jgkojak 8 years, 7 months ago

Yes, in a way, they will be forced to play NEXT year since Robinson and Taylor will be gone - we'll be super young next year, but with the kind of talent (Perry Ellis) we can build on - I'd almost say the 2012-2013 hawks look a lot like the seeds of the Chalmers-Rush-Jackson hawks that won thet Nat. Championship -

but we're gonna have 2-3 lean years here.

tical523 8 years, 7 months ago

Late night is too much of a production with all of the other stuff (over three hours). . . . other than ""men's baskebtall". I was there from 5-9 without any "men's basketball". My friends and I, along with people around were getting so bored and annoyed with half of the other stuff. How cool would it be to see three point and jump shot competitions, dunk contests. . .I read somebody say that the recruits looked bored and I can see why. It was too hokey, cheesy, whatever. It should be a shorter bright fuse, not such a long and drawn out ordeal. People were actually leaving before the game was over.

Andrew Washington 8 years, 7 months ago

..yeah ive been there for the past few years and those were my thoughts exactly. However, this was the first time that i saw such a large amount of people leaving early. I was a little shocked at first that whole rows were beginning to clear about 25 min before the event was over..but now i can see why we've lost recruits like Harrison barnes because it is pretty boring untill the last half hour. Not too long ago a bunch of top rated recruits attended late night or at least planned to ..maybe late night does have a negative effect on recruiting..or maybe someone on the recruiting staff needs to be fired.

Mike Schell 8 years, 7 months ago

Forgive my immaturity I'm only 19. . . But this makes me wanna cry I frigging hate the big12 its so wrong to do this to Ben Mac and j tray and half way through the semester what a joke. . . . Like why?????. . . . Goes from bad to worse . . Fml. . .

ku_tailg8 8 years, 7 months ago

Self's recruiting has gone down the toilet. These are not the guys we should be recruiting. This is insane. Yes, Rush attended other high/prep schools but we are KU we should have the pick of the litter not the litter droppings.

Dale Kroening 8 years, 7 months ago

You really call yourself a fan ???? TROLL............................

Lawkan 8 years, 7 months ago

Self never uses his depth anyway. You just have to hope no one gets hurt.

AZHawk72 8 years, 7 months ago

Well, I have to be consistent with comments made during the recruiting season--so, for whatever reason, we were surprised that some players left; we scrambled to come up with anyone representative to fill-out the class with some needed depth and miraculously did. We plucked some decent players that a number of quality schools sought. Along the way, we probably killed any chance of a home and home series with San Diego State.

Don't put off cracking a book until the night before finals--I guess it applies to recruiting, too. Mac was a good get while Ellis was a great get--and that's been it since Robinson and Johnson from where I sit. There's a trend here, but I'll be painted as disloyal if I go into greater detail and feed the apologists' neediness.

For whomever fired the harmless misaimed comment that "other major programs go through this, too"--no they don't. I found a couple of minor league programs who've had two ill-advised signings. After two hours of using every dirty trick I know for short-cutting the internet, I've learned that we've broken some kind of "record" in having three freshmen not eligible.

There's no point in anything else to say. In the days ahead, the national media will do the math and ask "What the h--- is wrong with Kansas." This was just the warning shot.

LaJHawk666 8 years, 7 months ago

Anybody know how good Juenemann is???

This is pretty bad, but it's still our team. I just hate that our second game is in MSG against Kensucky. If we lose to them....I wish we were playing this non-con schedule last year or the year before...but wishes are worthless. Hopefully the tough schedule will prime us for the Big 12 and beyond.

Again, a big key/question mark is Withey. And injuries. Plus, come on guys, no one can get suspended. We obviously lack a cushion to protect us from stupidity.

Our front court is about as lean as can be. Young is sometimes list as a guard! (I'd say he's 3 that can play the 2, 3, 4.)

So, Wesley's numbers from Lamar were far below stellar for a team I've never heard of. Anyone know why? Some people on this board seem to see a lot in him but a lot of people on here see everything with crimson colored glasses. I guess we will soon find out; he'll obviously be in the rotation.

RCJH

Nicholas Cederlind 8 years, 7 months ago

I just don't have the words to criticize the NCAA enough, anymore...

I want McLemore, Braeden Anderson, Perry Ellis, Zach Peters, and Traylor (let's get committments from Shabazz Muhammad and Kaleb Tarczewski while we're at it) to come in next year and completely rip the NCAA and its tournament in HALF, then win the national championship and rip the trophy right outta their hands...

LaJHawk666 8 years, 7 months ago

I can't believe I'm asking this but is there anyone from the football team that can join our basketball team? Preferably over 6' 7"?

Is there a chance for a walk-on?

I'm not an expert, so could someone explain to me how this front court can compete? It seems like the strategy against us would be to eliminate T-Rob via fouls and/or double-teams.

I think our best advantage is in coaching and our home court.

I hope HCBS makes everyone practice their 3-pointers. I don't want to end up a bubble team!!!

RCJH

jayhawker97 8 years, 7 months ago

Mama look - a boo boo!! just another ugly truth about the NCAA. crap! ah, well... it's worth another year of waiting!!!!!

go Jayhawks!

JacquesMerde 8 years, 7 months ago

Ever wonder what a southern sh ithead thinks? If you are not from Kentucky read the UKALLDay post. Now you know.

JacquesMerde 8 years, 7 months ago

If you are from Kentucky you won't bother since you can't read.

Steve Reigle 8 years, 7 months ago

So why does the NCAA think these guys will do better with their schoolwork by not having the tutoring and oversight available to the team members? The NCAA needs to look at the educational track record of the student athletes when making these decisions.

blindrabbit 8 years, 7 months ago

Recruit basketball players from the West Coast, that way when the Big12 finally does fold in a couple of years we've improved our stock to join the Pac12! All of these basketball posts prove to me that many of the Kansas fans still do not comprehend that as important as BB is to KU, BB in rather insignificant to football when the conference realignment issues are in the forefront Attend the football game tonight to show the rest of the country that some of our fans understand that we do "get it". Rock Chalk!

REHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Somewhere in this mix, we must not forget to feel real sympathy for these three ineligible recruits. Dreams bashed. Lives placed on hold. Victims of complex regulations and juiced up prepschool glitteratta. I wish the best for them and hope that somehow they can keep it together so as yet to grab the magic ring on the merry-go-round of amateur sport. Braeden Anderson got kicked aside, and was forced to depart Lawrence. Evidently, Jamari and Ben will be allowed to attend classes on scholarship, then practice with the team second semester...if they can afford to hang on for a school year. I wish the best for all of them, and hope yet to see them suit up for the Jayhawks. If they can maintain patience, focus and resolve, they might still become key ingredients of a championship program.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 7 months ago

Imakufan: I'm no NCAA apologist, but what do you mean? How about something simple while you are in high school ... take the classes needed to graduate, pass those classes, and perhaps stay at one high school for more than one season. It isn't that hard.

But we have lost 3 players .. Anderson, Traylor, and McLemore, who, between them, attended 9 different high schools. Beautiful. Wonder why that happened.

No one really cares about high school ball anyway on the recruiting trail. These top guys are playing inferior competition in high school vs. their elite summer ball. Who cares? Generally, we are dealing with folks that are way, way inferior academically, who don't legitimately get their high school coursework done, who have been treated differently because they can play basketball, and shift around over and over in search of the easy way out .. because they are basketball players.

Personally, I don't care at all whether or not they get an education. I could really give a rip as to whether Jamari Traylor has a job when he's 30 years old or not. It's not my concern. My concern is only that they have the opportunity. That's what this country is about. And they all .. everyone of the players that get a scholarship. Anywhere. Have the opportunity. (and truth be told, even if they don't get a scholarship, they still have the opportunity).

And if they (or their parents -- or in most cases a single mom) runs them from high school to high school in search of the easy way out, and that puts their meal ticket in peril, that's the way it goes.

The requirements to play college sports isn't that high. It's a low bar. The NCAA's ruling .. really, is looking out for the players. It's a big picture deal here. Perhaps kids in high school, and their parents, will see the wrong way to handle things. Or at least a greater percentage will.

Think about how many kids "think" they are big time players, and do the same academic baloney that happened here? And don't get the big time offer, and the possibility of playing at the next level? They are attending a JUCO, or D-III. While I personally don't care whether they succeed or not .. they have the opportunity. But it is the academic opportunity (and how they use that) that will determine whether they are a productive member of society and can support their families, or whether they are whining about how unfair life is, why everyone owes them something, all the while picking up their food stamps, paying no taxes (while complaining that others don't pay enough), and riding subsidized public transportation.

I am thoroughly disgusted with our recruiting over the past two seasons both in results and process. And it is embarrassing for KU to have the Selby deal last season, and the trifecta this season (Anderson, Traylor, McLemore). But as I posted last night .. it is what it is.

Let's get on with the season with who we have. Makes me appreciate Tyshawn Taylor more than I have before, believe me.

blindrabbit 8 years, 7 months ago

Part of my earlier post regarding recruiting the kids from the West Coast (other than my tongue in cheek reference at 9:44 A.M. to the PAC12) is that those kids that have attended KU in prior years have not had the academic problems that KU has experienced from some kids from the Upper Midwest, East and South. Bill Self has not recruited that part of the country, but Roy had success from kids out there: Pierce, Pollard, Vaughn any many others. It's football season anyway, lest KU fans get lost in the BB mania!

Bee Bee 8 years, 7 months ago

NCAA= NATIONAL COMMUNISTS AGAINST ATHLETES

Jabez Harlan 8 years, 7 months ago

This makes the early departure of Josh Selby hurt even more than before!!!

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 7 months ago

When all is said and done, I hope these guys get motivated to prove the NCAA wrong. Prove that they belong in college. The bottom line is that they are here to be student athletes. Lets hope this ruling doesn't sour them on the student part. As for the many posters on here questioning HCBS for recruiting these kids and acting like they would know better, give me a break . Many of the top recruits follow the same route as these kids did and many of them are getting approved to play. So quite blowing your hot air that you would not recruit these kids. What I hear you saying is that recruiting todays kids is hard and that you would opt for the easy way out. Quitters.

REHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Gotta hope that these two lads hang tight, begin to practice with the squad in late Dec., get their grades in order, and come out roaring in 2012-13. I am certain that they will bear the urge to work toward next year's starting lineup. Just 8 or 9 more weeks, and they can don practice gear. I wonder if they would be eligible in the SEC, Pac 10+, ACC, Big 10+, Big East. I imagine that the current Big 12- values academics more than some leagues.

HawkNVegas 8 years, 7 months ago

Thanks Bill, we appreciate the forward thinking You brought us with Xavier Henry -> Josh Selby -> to this nonsense. You "disagree" that they need to be in School? Why, because Josh Selby did so well he came to my city, Las Vegas right after we lost to another Mid Major? He finished all his homework and his tutors, umm I mean Josh took his finals in March right, or early April when it went public he was here. I saw his but and knew the lies You were telling were completely false. My image of Bill changed forever. Keep it up and we'll continue to get second pick nobody want'em because they are "Not Thinkers" basketball players. Should we tell the NCAA what You do for the parents of inner city players?

Andrew Washington 8 years, 7 months ago

Im going to agree with you here. It can be argued that no one has under performed in the ncaa tournament as badly as bill self has at KU. The 2004,2007,2010,2011 teams should have positively been in the final four( if not the *$@% championship game!) This season will also be the first one that doesnt feature a mcdonalds all amercican on the roster since that game began in 1977! (credit to longhawk for his excellent research) Bill self would have been "burnt" at ku had he lost to that mid major team in the 2008 elite eight.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 7 months ago

"Where there is smoke there is fire" LMAO. I guess you just write off the constant smoke over there as just barbecue . Come post on here when Pay Pal Cal gets your wins vacated and your house of barbecue burns down.

Ludwig Supraphonic 8 years, 7 months ago

You're worried about our recruiting? I guess you're hoping three is a charm. Perhaps Cal has refined his cheating techniques. You're concerned Self used poor judgement in offering to recruits that didn't qualify. For a Big Blue fan good cheating beats honest mistakes.

Robert Robinson 8 years, 7 months ago

I think this will be one of the most exciting years of late. A team building from the bench. So maybe we'll lose a few more games. It only make the W's better. The sweet ain't as sweet without the sour. And knowing the sour allows you to appreciate the sweet. Rock Chalk! I'm excited to see Young play.

Alan Mills 8 years, 7 months ago

I, too, think the Jayhawks will be just fine this year. This story is really the final chapter (I hope) in a fairly sad saga of Self's lack of recruiting. Kansas has been the only team to bring in "one and done" kids who aren't very good. I know, there will be people who will argue how talented Henry and Selby are, but they sure weren't when they were here. Every other "one and done" has been head and shoulders above them. Plus, we keep recruiting kids who don't qualify - three in this class alone! Come on, Kansas can't recruit good players who can spell their freakin' names? Sure, maybe that's not it. But, if you have to go to three high schools, there must be a problem. And, if the problem follows you to three different programs, maybe YOU are the problem?! Why are we recruiting these kids? Gotta hope they get anxious and choose to go play in Europe or something. I really think that will be best in the long run. Coach Self, let's find some "good young men" who don't have to change schools every 6-months!

chipmunk1956 8 years, 7 months ago

Has there been an article explaining why Anderson wasn't cleared for a scholly by the "faculty reps" and Traylor and McClemore were? Just cuirous....

HawkKlaw 8 years, 7 months ago

That's a shame. We could really use Traylor and Anderson down low. But our starting 5 still puts most other schools' to shame. Self and his staff are partially to blame. I love HCBS as much as any KU fan, but in this case he gambled and lost. I'm disappointed, but I still recognize that he's the best possible guy we could have coaching KU's squad. Maybe he needs a recruitment specialist though...

And the season is not a foregone disaster. Self's coaching skills are still exceptional and Danny Manning is still the "big man" coach. TRob will still dominate everyone. TT, EJ and Releford are still amazing basketball players. We don't have a lot of bigs, but rest assured that the ones we do have will be ready to compete with anyone. I'm not saying that KU will for sure win its 8th conference championship in a row, but I'm also not going to say that KU won't even make the NCAA tourney. C'mon people.

Steve Kubler 8 years, 7 months ago

Crappy news, I can say crappy on here can't I?

While the NCAA annoys me no end I can see why they made the rules involving multiple high school attendance and watch that closely. First is the chance the players miss required classes by jumping schools. I was moved from school to school as a child and found that different schools taught subjects a different grades. Either I walked in to a subject I knew nothing about, or I sat through the same class more than once. Back then it did not seem to matter other to me but today's requirement for a core curriculum are pretty stringent.

The second is what it does to the schools they come from and go to. We had a local coach that decided to import talent to our HS. He had some great teams. He also had local kids riding the bench that had serious talent. One of which ended up starring at a DII school and lead the nation in some stats. IF that kid had been able to show his skills at the HS level he possibly would have made a DI team and who knows what difference that would made in his life. He's done okay but I know he and his family has to wonder. BTW the HS team always came up short in the state tourney even with the all-star line up. Something about a bunch of all-star types not being able to play team ball and defense...

This does NOT make me happier with the NCAA but I do acknowledge their reasoning. To bad they can't make decisions in a reasonable time frame and that their rules are so hard to understand that most kids don't have a clue they are doing something wrong.

AZHawk72 8 years, 7 months ago

Evidently, multiple schools equal multiple problems in NCAA-speak. However, McLemore's problems began with his high school closing, but that must carry no weight with a group so set in their ways that they're watching helplessly as the conferences reconfigure to destroy the BCS.

For almost twenty years I drove past the NCAA headquarters in Mission, Kansas and did so with pride. After whoring out for 250 million plus to move to Indy, not to be confused with an acting role which had more depth than the city, I watched this declining organization pack its bags and move to Indy. Well, at least it wasn't Irsay, and it wasn't in the middle of the night. Still, the destination was the same, and that wasn't lost on me.

Ever since the NCAA left the KC area, we've had to endure too many inconsistencies, a runaway attitude of paranoia, and a growing feeling around the country that these people have no grip on what's "really" going on. While the BCS seems to be some very expensive duct tape providing a national champion, most of America views that tape as being over the mouths of athletic directors who are, supposedly, representing the best interests of their respective schools.

Lately, regarding our aforementioned student athletes, this supposedly-esteemed group of cahones-less faceless strangers has chosen to play god with three of our potential players. What the really did was play with their lives, their potential to make something of themselves. I'm really proud that Mac and Traylor are going to class, and look forward to the time they're deemed "worthy" to grace Allen Fieldhouse. Meanwhile, I guess we're supposed to sit back and hope a kid who wanted to be here, Anderson, somehow keeps his act together and doesn't sour on life...

...like I've soured on an organization that has lost its purpose.

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