Thursday, February 17, 2011

Morris twins’ reputations called into question

Injured Thomas Robinson could be ready by Oklahoma game on Feb. 26

Brother Marcus Morris, left, and Markieff Morris congratulate each other after grabbing a foul against Iowa State during the first half on Saturday, Feb. 12, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Brother Marcus Morris, left, and Markieff Morris congratulate each other after grabbing a foul against Iowa State during the first half on Saturday, Feb. 12, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Podcast episode


Moving on from the meltdown in Manhattan

The Kansas University men's basketball team's most recent loss — 84-68 to K-State in Manhattan on Monday — left many Jayhawks scratching their heads about what went wrong. In this "Spodcasters" episode, the guys (Matt Tait, Tom Keegan and Gary Bedore) discuss what led to the Jayhawks' undoing and what ...

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Some highly publicized transgressions on the court during the 2010-11 basketball season have called into question the character of Kansas University’s Morris twins.

“What you see on TV and that kind of stuff is not necessarily who they are,” KU coach Bill Self stated emphatically on Wednesday’s weekly Hawk Talk radio show.

He was speaking two days after Markieff Morris was called for an intentional foul for clipping Jacob Pullen in the face while setting a screen in Monday’s KU-Kansas State game. Markieff also committed an intentional foul on Feb. 7 versus Missouri.

Marcus Morris, meanwhile, was ejected for committing a flagrant foul on Dec. 22 at Cal-Berkeley and also whistled for a ‘T’ on Feb. 5 at Nebraska.

“During games, at times when emotion gets involved, the emotion gets the best of them. It’s not really who they are, but it’s a maturity thing,” Self said.

“They have developed a reputation that is not favorable at all. It is to the point now it’s going to cost them. We thought we had this thing addressed to the point we wouldn’t have to revisit it again. We have had to revisit it.”

Self said any punishment would remain in-house. But he’s certainly not taking the repeat intentional fouls lightly.

“I’ll deal with it my own way with them, but certainly it hurts everybody associated with our program,” he said, adding, “To me, it’s bigger than that. To me, it hurts everybody that supports KU because that is not who we are. That’s not what we stress. They know that. They understand that. They get that, but still yet it happens.”

Self said replays showed Markieff did deserve the whistle Monday, because of a new rule that automatically calls for an intentional foul when a player hits another above the shoulders.

“I think the reason they got the foul is because it was a twin. That’s my personal opinion, but still it was the right call,” Self said. “Kieff said, ‘I didn’t intentionally do it.’ I said, ‘I know you didn’t.’

“He was screening. You’ve got a 5-foot-10 guy running through there, (he) ducks down, and it’s kind of the perfect storm, so to speak. I think it was the right call based on a bad rule.

“I don’t care what anybody says. Every official tells me it’s a bad rule. But it is a rule. It should have been an offensive foul (on Markieff), no question. Anything above the shoulders is an intentional foul so that’s frustrating. It was not like an intentional deal, ‘I’ll go do this,’ but it was a lack of discipline, without question.”

The bottom line is, Self supports the twins 100 percent.

“They are good kids. They are fun kids, and I enjoy coaching them. They drive me absolutely nuts, but their personality ... I love coaching ’em. You can ask any of our players. They are great teammates.”

Message forgotten

Self was disappointed his squad lost its composure two days after meeting with former New York Knicks great Bill Bradley, who spoke with the squad about teamwork and other things before the Iowa State game.

“I told the team, ‘That speech lasted 72 hours,’’’ Self said on Hawk Talk. “It’s so disappointing two days after we talk about this — and guys buy into it — how quickly it can change when things don’t go your way. You’ve got guys on an island trying to survive, as opposed as knowing somebody’s got your back. That’s what happened in Manhattan.

“We didn’t have a group that night that rallied around it (loud Bramlage Coliseum crowd). We weren’t a team. We were individuals.”

Still, as Self said, “It’s one game in a very long season. It’s a marathon. We got our butts whipped there in ’08 (and still won national title). The difference is after losing three of five that year, the guys said, ‘OK, that’s enough.’ This team has to say that, even though it’s just one bad performance.”

KU also lost that season, 61-60, at Oklahoma State before rattling off 13 wins in a row to win the NCAAs.

“On the bus coming back from Stillwater, we said, ‘We won’t win another game. We are so soft. We can’t guard. We don’t care and this, this and this.’ All that team did was go on to win 15 (13) in a row to end it.

“I know there’s a chance we can get this thing turned around. It’s sports. How many great pitchers go out and get shelled in three innings, and you think they’re never going to win another game? Until they take the mound again?”

He did say this team has to develop a tougher defensive mind-set before thinking about accomplishing what happened in the postseason of ’08.

“That team hung its hat on guarding people. This team hangs its hat on scoring. It’s a different mind-set, not what I like, but it’s been the makeup of this team so far. If we get better, we’ll have a shot. If we don’t, we won’t have a shot. It’s not that complicated, but I know the guys care.”


Self said he hoped sophomore forward Thomas Robinson (meniscus surgery) would be available for the Oklahoma game on Feb. 26. He said freshman Josh Selby (stress reaction, right foot) is still “probably a week away from really being able to help us. He practiced full-speed today. He looked better. He’s a little ways away from giving us that punch we need him to give us.”

Chol decision Thursday

Angelo Chol, a 6-9, 210-pound forward from San Diego’s Hoover High, will choose either KU, Arizona or North Carolina in a 2:45 p.m. news conference at his high school.


kusportsdotcom 5 years, 6 months ago

great article. bill's the man. i wouldn't want anyone else being in charge of this team.

100 5 years, 6 months ago

Keep on doing your thing Jayhawks.

We're proud of each & every one of you.

Monday was a bump in the road, KSU played better than us & Pullen went off, case closed.

On a sidenote, how was Curtis Kelly playing in Monday's game after he was caught violating a substance for the third time?

The 2nd time he had to sit out three games & go to rehab.

So after getting caught the third time....

  1. Why didn't he have to sit out three games?

  2. Was Monday night his rehab?

100 5 years, 6 months ago

Get ready to read some trolls scattered through the next 60 posts or so. Most aren't. But as Marcus said, once the grass is cut the snakes come out. Every few posts it's interesting to see "Jayhawk fans" (who literally probably live in Columbia, MO, wear black & gold & don't really have an active message board until spring football) saying all kinds of things.

Some of these Missouri fans know more about our Jayhawks than we do!

Except for one thing.... They always take the negative angle, showing, indeed, once & for all why they are Tigers.

For Jayhawks new to this these "fans" are called Antlers... They've been doing this since the civil war (they even had spies in Lawrence the night of Quantril's raid in 1863, the night 164 of our people were burned & slaughtered).

Well now they come in Jayhawk clothing on the Internet. Enjoy!

Mike Bratisax 5 years, 6 months ago

I think Monday was a little more then a bump in the road but it wasn't a death blow either. Looking forward to see how the team responds against Colorado. I really want another shot at KSU in the Big 12 Tournament...especially if KSU needs the win to avoid the NIT. Biggest concern is Ty at the point..I just don't see the maturation from last year or the year before.

hayjawk 5 years, 6 months ago

I am always amazed at those who think that their opinion is better grounded than Coach Self's knowlwdge of his/our team. Twins, don't worry about the snakes. Brady and Tyrel, keep up the great effort. Tyshawn, you are the backbone. Josh, hope to see you in uniform next year. The Jayhawk Family is bound together by a century of greatness. You chose to be a part of that greatness, and we thank you. The Jayhawk Family is behind you 100%. F. O. E. Those detractors are not from the Family, but are selfish minded individuals whose opinions don't count in the scheme of our great program. Finally, we are rapidly approaching Kentucky for all time wins, and everyone on this team is a vital ingredient. Rock Chalk!

shimjhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

+1....IMO Coach Self has every trait you'd want....great recruiter, great x's and o's, great personality, interacts great with fans and cares so much about the tradition of KU.....I only hope he is here another 30 years!

KEITHMILES05 5 years, 6 months ago

Again, Mother Morris needs to have a stern talk with her sons. What they have is learned behavior and they need un-learn it very quickly or else is going to cost the team victories. That is the bottom line.

FinalFinal 5 years, 6 months ago

Mother Morris might need to go home. These kids need to grow up. Hard to grow up with a mom around.

I cannot imagine college involving my mom...and I love the women. Grow up twins.

Craig Lang 5 years, 6 months ago

Really? You're going to criticize a mother for being there for her children?

You can say that the Morris twins have issues, but I don't think you can place the blame on a mother who has chosen to sacrifice her life and career to be close to her children.

SaltLakeHawk 5 years, 6 months ago

"We got our butts whipped there in ’08 (and still won national title)."

Does anybody else get annoyed with parenthetical statements being inserted into direct quotes? If he didn't say "and still won national title" then why add it in??? I'm pretty certain he didn't say it. This isn't a particularly offensive example, but it's something I see so often that I finally had to comment. It gives the journalist WAY too much freedom to distort what people actually say. I won't pretend to be an expert, but isn't this journalism 101?

The other day, I passed Gary Bedore in the street, and he said "Hello (I'm going to dump anthrax in your children's box of Lucky Charms, but only after waterboarding a few kittens. I also believe Justin Bieber to be an incredible talent and prolific songwriter)."

See, I can do it too.

Jared Grillot 5 years, 6 months ago

Have to disagree. If this particular parenthetical was moved to the end of the quotation, so far removed from the part of the quote the author is referring to, it would seem awkward and out of place.

“It’s one game in a very long season. It’s a marathon. We got our butts whipped there in ’08. The difference is after losing three of five that year, the guys said, ‘OK, that’s enough.’ This team has to say that, even though it’s just one bad performance.” (And still won a national title.)

See? This sounds ridiculous. It was obviously an aside from the author (not the speaker) concerning that particular part of the quote. If nothing else, we should be able to look at this and see that this particular part of this thread has become rather silly.

LAJayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

I do agree, but I think putting it parenthetically makes it rather clear that it's not a direct quote so we should understand the author is giving context. Knowing it's not direct quote certainly gives you a right as the reader to not believe what is being added. Thus, the longer the parenthetical (or, rather, the more information given within it), the less credibility it can have. That effect is pretty much a direct correlation.

I would guess in this particular circumstance it was probably used because this statement was understood from the general context of the whole conversation and wasn't easy to place in quotation format. Self can, at times, say things somewhat coded, but through several sentences his meaning becomes more clear. Bedore probably did this out of the need for brevity and flow.

That being said, I understand your point, and it does bother me at times.

57JayHawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Having been quoted and misquoted in the press quite often, I will offer this. What usually happens is that the speaker made a reference to something and their comment was incomplete or vague.

In this case, HCBS may have said "and won it all". "Won it all" could be misconstrued to mean we won the Big 12, the Big 12 Tournament, or the NC.

The writer then attempts to make a better connotation and complete sentence. In my situation, I've often been opposed to the goals of the papers and they go the wrong way of my intended comment.

My recommendation is to understand it's not a direct quote, usually something was said. I doubt these writers offer this much conjecture.

John Proctor 5 years, 6 months ago

I think you're overreacting, SaltLakeHawk. It was pretty clear that Self was implying what was in quotes there. Perhaps, yes, it was unnecessary since Self went on later in the article to say exactly what was in parentheses, but it didn't distort what Self was saying. The example you give in the second paragraph is way over the top.

SaltLakeHawk 5 years, 6 months ago

lol I know my example was "way over the top". I was trying to make a point while being funny. My humorless point is this: it seems like a slippery slope.

But I have to admit, I was a bit weirded out by the part of your post when you said "I think you're overreacting (and by the way, I'm drunk, lonely, and looking to cuddle and/or have an erotic pillow-fight)."

I don't mean to be judgmental, but that's a REALLY creepy thing to say. Get it together, dude....

kcglowboy 5 years, 6 months ago

If you actually listen to interviews with HCBS, or with just about any human being, he/we don't always make sense when speaking off the cuff. We don't always finish our trains of thought, or (in the case of coaches) we speak in technological terms that only his players and a few tuned-in sports writers might understand. I appreciate a seasoned reporter/writer like Gary Bedore clarifying comments, so that I can clearly understand what HCBS meant, and (in some cases) making excited, post-game 19-year-olds sound coherent.

SaltLakeHawk 5 years, 6 months ago

kcglowboy, you make a fair point. However, I for one would rather reporters just print EXACTLY what the kids say. I find it funny when inner-city kids have their way of talking "translated" into "proper english". I've read countless articles where kids are quoted and they come off sounding like Carlton from Fresh Prince after a good horse-tranquilizer binge. Just quote them directly, and capture 1. their personality, and 2. their post-game excitement

A recent example where this translation DIDN'T happen (luckily) is when Marcus Morris was talking about coach Self's behavior behind closed doors. I can't remember the exact quote, but it was something like "that's when he do what he do" and they printed it exactly as he said it. Not proper english, but I loved it. WAY better than "that's when Coach Self temporarily sheds his congenial disposition and sets out to accomplish what he wants to accomplish through the liberal use of profanity, thus revealing his ferociously competitive and passionate nature"

lol, ok I got carried away with that last quote...

SaulGood 5 years, 6 months ago

I liked YOUR parenthetical quote. (begin sarcasm in 3...2...1...) My opinion is that if we're going to include them at all, the author should be able to insert wildly fantastical statements like my personal fave..."(but only after waterboarding a few kittens)." Better yet, they should HAVE to make stuff up.

Nicholas Cederlind 5 years, 6 months ago

I'm sorry but none of this backlash against the twins makes any sense. In case everyone forgot, the twins are BIGS. Any big will tell you how rough and tumble your game has to be and how the line between aggressive excellence and undisciplined fouling is razor thin. Intentional elbows are one thing but after an unintentional high screen by Kief, the twins' entire reputations are being called into question?? This is ludicrous. What an inane angle to this article. The twins can be more disciplined, yes, but the level of criticism they are recieving is disgusting!!

John Randall 5 years, 6 months ago

The whole point of this article is that these two kids are in this situation. Regardless of what you or I think SHOULD be, they have to man up and deal with what is SO. Hopefully they can move ahead without dragging their team any farther down this road.

jhox 5 years, 6 months ago

I couldn't agree more. Let it drop, already. The foul against Cal, and the similar foul a couple of weeks ago...those were legit, and the twins deserved criticism for losing thier cool. The one against KSU was just a screen gone bad, but now everyone in Jayhawk land thinks the sky is falling. So, basically one legit intentional, lose their cool foul against both of them. Let's move on.

They do need to understand they're now on every officials' watch list though. They will be given no breaks. In the officials minds they both have 3 or 4 each, even though that's not reality, so they'll be watching, even if it isn't justified.

Mike Bratisax 5 years, 6 months ago

Without the twins, this team wouldn't stand a chance of winning (or even playing) any post season tournaments. That said, they really need to control their emotions during heated games as referees seem to be unwilling to give them the benefit of the doubt.

SaulGood 5 years, 6 months ago

Agree. These "transgressions" don't even compare to some of the thug play like what we saw committed against Raef by that gawky piece of crud from George Washington that deliberately threw him down. That was an intentional foul. I'm in agreement that this rule sucks, and strips good officials from the right to call a game with discretion. My HS basketball coach always used to get on refs with "You can't call fouls on him just because he's big!" If I had a dime for every time it felt like that happened in the first half of KU/KSU...

Jared Grillot 5 years, 6 months ago

Or Jason Sutherland...or any one of dozens of other Mizzery players that Norm threw at us to take us out.

Ty Mar 5 years, 6 months ago

Shame on those that named called the twins. True Jayhawks will stand by our own no matter what. We may question strategy, tactics, play making, even coaching..but the name calling i've seen the past few days is disgusting.

Anyways-keep your head up and ROCK CHALK!

ChelseaJayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Hey we love the twins over here in london, have nothing but pride in their season so far. I have no time for people who want to question someones personality on a few (passionate) sporting moments. Do people just want to ruin sports ?

Come on lads......lets av it!!!!

Ben Simonett 5 years, 6 months ago

yes, because the only true fans are the ones who think, and support the team just like you.

your the best fan in the world, anyone not like you must not be a "true fan"


Trent Smith 5 years, 6 months ago

Agree. Of course, someone on the team could do something so terribly inhumane and horrible that you just have to say, "I don't condone or support that, Jayhawk or not." But this wasn't one of those situations. It was a moving screen. It was a simple foul during the course of the game. Attacking the player's character (supposedly your own player's character) is irresponsible. The ones who do it though sure like to defend their grade school antics. (See bennybob's comment)

LAJayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

I didn't say this the other day, but...

That call on Markieff was completely bogus. Was it a moving screen? Sure. Blow the whistle on that (although the offensive foul/moving screen has really become a ludicrously hit and miss foul call in the college game lately). But to rule it intentional??? When he was clearly just putting his arm into his defenders chest while trying to make a screen.... that was just a terrible, terrible call.

"I think it was the right call based on a bad rule." --Bill Self

Coach Self is probably correct, but, sweet Jesus, if that's the case this is a really, really, REALLY a bad freakin rule. I mean, just god-freakin-awful. Monkey-feces-tossing bad. There was nothing intentional there, more than any other moving screen. It's a really horrible rule that needs to be removed immediately in the off season.

On another note, I, once again, have to point out how amazing Coach Self is. I have read countless posts the last few days, and none have summed up so succinctly what was going on in Monday's game better than Coach. “We didn’t have a group that night that rallied around it (loud Bramlage Coliseum crowd). We weren’t a team. We were individuals.” Perfect summation.

Although, I do have one point to make on his words:

"How many great pitchers go out and get shelled in three innings, and you think they’re never going to win another game? Until they take the mound again?”

This is an analogy, and not a bad one. I certainly understand why he is using it (referring to the nature of sports in general). However, there is a big difference here, and it comes down to exactly what he was seeing as a major problem Monday night. When a pitcher gets shelled, he did so (generally) individually. When he comes back out and performs beautifully, it is also, more or less, individually. I have no doubt every single member of our basketball team, individually, could come back and explode. HOWEVER, the point is, can they do it as a team?

The answer to that question will decide whether they are truly of nation championship caliber. If they react as a team, and do the things they need to do as a team, then that analogy works. If not, well, then it's not the right analogy.

This is a team game.

It's about how this team comes together.

And I have no doubt they will.

Rock Chalk.

Jim Roth 5 years, 6 months ago

Great strategy for a short guy: throw your face at a tall guy's elbow and get him in foul trouble.

Jim Roth 5 years, 6 months ago

Put in Niko Roberts (the shortest guy on the roster), have him chase around the other team's bigs and hit them in the elbow with his face. Draw attention to how ridiculous this rule is. (give him a mouth guard first!)

Joe Baker 5 years, 6 months ago

Won't work, he would be playing for the wrong team.

shinguard 5 years, 6 months ago

I think there is a lot to be learned from that one play. That is how you fight through screens. Pullen just barreled through there while it seems like our guards have, all too often, have conceded the screens and just run around them. This leaves our guards always a step behind the person they are guarding.

AirCapJay 5 years, 6 months ago

Refs are focusing on the twins every move. I agree that Pullen ran into Kieff's arm and not the other way around. Refs want to be thought of as the best in the business and also have an ego. They want to have an impact on the game. I'm sure before every game, refs get together and discuss what to look for in a particular game. The twins have a bad rep and refs are not going to let anything remotely go when they are in the game. If anything above the head is an automatic intensional foul, how come so many players get poked in the eye and nothing gets called?

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 6 months ago

I believe the rule is mostly in regards to elbows and was put into place because of too many bigs clearing out after a rebound and throwing their elbows around. I would assume that the rule was adopted to limit cuncussions just like the new NFL rule this year. What is so tough about this rule just like the NFL rule is that a player is tought to secure the ball after a rebound with your elbows out like that from the time you are a youngster, just like in football where you are tought to hit in a way that is banned in the NFL now. In my opinion (and I was a guard), it is enter at your own risk for a guard . If you are going to try to rip the ball away from a big that has just gotten a rebound than be prepared to get an elbow in the face, it comes with the territory and has been a part of the game of basketball for quite sometime.

I was playing in a pick up game years ago and a former KSU player who was about 6'11'' (I can't remember his name now) was playing with us and he pulled down a board and I got a little close to one of his elbows trying to strip the ball from him and I got his elbow upside my face. The blow knocked me out for a short period and I sustained a mild concussion from the incident. I never thought that it was on purpose, he was just trying to clear space to make an outlet pass. These situations are just fluke basketball plays that happen when you play long enough.

LAJayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Well said. And injuries are going to happen in sports. Sure you want to try to eliminate them as much as you can but not at the expense of destroying the game. I, too, know that players are taught from a young age to "clear out" by swinging their arms (and, thus, their elbows). I actually remember a coach specifically saying something along the lines of "swing those elbows; if someone dares to come in there, they're going to pay for it."

It's a physical game. If you don't want to get hurt, don't play.

5 years, 6 months ago

“I was playing in a pick up game years ago and a former KSU player who was about 6'11'' (I can't remember his name now)…”

Christopher, do you happen to recall if his name was John Rettiger? He is a super nice guy. My brother went to K-State, and they were good buddies.

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 6 months ago

I think it was Rhodes but don't quote me on it. Nathan Leaper (great last name for I guy who could jump out of the gym) was playing as well. I have never seen a white guy who could jump so high. Leaper was from Hays and was on the KSU track team for the long jump I believe. You could throw a lob to him anywhere and he would go up and get it and throw it down (he was from the farm and would wear a rodeo buckle all of the time). I had quite a few High School buddies up in Manhattan that I would go visit and play basketball with in their rec center. They have six basketball courts in their rec and a lot of pick up games. I think some of the KSU students were better than some of the actual players they had back then!

5 years, 6 months ago

Cool story, Christopher! I was at their rec center one time (1991-ish) visiting my brother, and they kicked Rettiger out for dunking. I think if it had been subtle, they would have let it slide. However, he dunked hard on a dude, and the guy went and complained. It was pretty funny. Some of the students playing were really good, that's for sure.

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 6 months ago

Was it at the Rec in Ahearn or their newer rec center?

5 years, 6 months ago

It was the newer one over near Bramlage. Never got a chance to check out Ahearn or the rec center there.

Jim Darnall 5 years, 6 months ago

.The intentional foul is called because of the elbow, not a finger to the eye. The key to the foul was that he stuck his elbow out not his hand, which he has a tendacy to do with or without the ball.

brooksmd 5 years, 6 months ago

I've watched the replay and Kieff had his right arm down to his side and his left forearm in the chest of the KSU player. I didn't see an elbow anywhere unless Pullen bumped his head on Keiff's left elbow has he ran under it. Both my son and I were amazed at the call. But then maybe our eyes aren't any good. Now if one of our guards did that they would probably be whistled for a charge.

Mike Bratisax 5 years, 6 months ago

I agree LAJ but unfortunately they now have a "Rasheed Wallace" reputation which is pretty hard to shake as we near March Madness. We also need to reestablish our rotation but with TRob out for maybe 3-4 more games, I don't see how we can do it. Selby looked clueless against KSU..I don't blame him but he has missed so many games this year, it would be difficult for anyone to step back into the rotation without a few missteps.

"As an aside", did anyone catch the Pitt/Nova game where the player 'accidentally' hit the opposing player in the mouth as he put his arm around his teammate? I wonder if that call played into the call against Kief.

Lastly, I saw these bracket predictions (no need to say the obvious) at CBS Sportsline. If we do fall to a 2 seed out west, I would like our chances in this highly unlikely scenario.

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 6 months ago

If we get a two seed I hope that it is in the same side of the bracket as Duke. We all know what kind of draw they tend to get.

hawkfan4life 5 years, 6 months ago

So Self acknowledges that Markeiff was the victim of a new and admittedly poor rule, and yet he punished him by sitting him the rest of the half. That was a coaching mistake. I'm sure he wanted to discipline Kieff for picking up that foul, but it wasn't really Kieff's fault. If that's the rule then the refs have to call it like they did, but our reaction to the call coaching wise was poor. By the time Kieff saw the floor again there is no wonder that he was ice cold and couldn't do much.

I am hopeful that benching Kieff was a long-term coaching move that will pay its benefits down the line because I personally think that was among the major factors that contributed to our losing the game. Absolutely no energy from our guys after Kieff goes out on that call, and it cost us the game. I think that we lost as a team on Monday, players and coaches alike. There can be no blame here because everyone was a poor participant.

LAJayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

2 points here:

1) Kieff, I believe, had two fouls at that point and Coach Self did not want him to pick up number 3 before the half. A common and correct coaching move, especially considering the fact that we were being outplayed in the fist half and would need him in the second with 3 fouls to give and not two.

2) "It should have been an offensive foul (on Markieff), no question." --Bill Self. He's saying it was definitely a foul (and it was). He just doesn't think the intentional rule where the arm is above the shoulders is a good rule (and it isn't). I don't believe he sat him for the intentional call, but for the fact that he had two fouls.

It's a terrible rule and needs to be amended.

AirCapJay 5 years, 6 months ago

... or called evenly on both sides. If refs are being fair and calling what they see equally, I have no problem. But when they target certain players, that is wrong. KSU was trying to draw fouls. Pullen drew TT into the air on a three, then moved under him while he was landing to draw the foul. That in my opinion should be an offensive foul. It is never called.

NickBarnes 5 years, 6 months ago

Paul Pierce's Bread and Butter is getting his defender in the air and getting the foul

NickBarnes 5 years, 6 months ago

Paul Pierce's Bread and Butter is getting his defender in the air and getting the foul

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 6 months ago

Self did not have the benifit of replay during the game to see if the foul was indeed what was called so regardless of how many fouls Kieff had, Self sits players after intentional fouls are called just like the majority of coaches do.

oldalum 5 years, 6 months ago

I'm not sure he took him out as punishment. Maybe it was a cooling down period, or to give the refs a chance to forget about watching his every move. They tend to miss all the times he gets blasted under our basket, and only watch what he does. According to Bob and Piper on the radio, shortly after that Tyrel got a fist in the face and the refs refused Self's request for a video review on that.

Hawkamania 5 years, 6 months ago

Like I said in the other Morris' story....

They have been getting grilled hardcore by the referees ever since they've stepped foot in Lawrence for some reason. Offensive and Defensive fouls, its like the referees pay more attention to them then anyone else out on the court to me. Alot of the calls don't get a replay so we can't actually see what is going on most of the time but alot of them are some ticky tack nonsense.

Who here referees basketball games at somewhat of a competitive level? Is this something that goes on with some officials? Do they know or hear about certain players before the game and keep an extra close eye on them when they are in? Do they see a player make a foul or two and then continue to look his way more often then not? Do they assume most of the time that there was a foul occurring when there more n' likely wasn't one when they truly don't get a good look at said foul?

It really baffles my mind though. The Morris twins aren't exactly angels but they sure in the hell ain't the Hell's Angels either ya know.

Ben Simonett 5 years, 6 months ago

yeah that must be it, every referee is just biased against the twins. it couldn't possibly be that they are just undisciplined, immature players who actually commit more fouls than most.

its not like the NCAA reviews officiating to make sure things like you just described dont happen or anything....

AirCapJay 5 years, 6 months ago

You have a sarcastic reply to a serious post. Does the Big 12 review officials? Do they do it during the season or after it is over?

I saw a post prior to Mondays game about the fact that Las Vegas only had KU by 4 points and someone pointed out that a certain official was working the game. Officials can make a difference to the outcome of a game.

Ann Oneill 5 years, 6 months ago

The Big 12 has people that evaluate the referees during the season. I sat next to a gentleman in Boulder last year that was evaluating the refs during the KU game.

Kurt Eskilson 5 years, 6 months ago

AirCapJay: Please don't feed the trolls.

Ben Simonett 5 years, 6 months ago

you posted this on my last posts too.

i graduated in '09, BSEE

was on mass street when we won it all in '08

im not a troll, just a realist who refuses to succumb to the groupthink of this site.

groupthink like yours where anyone that doesnt see the world through crimson and blue goggle must be a troll.

Kurt Eskilson 5 years, 6 months ago

The mark of a troll is a poster who consistently posts caustic remarks that appear to have no higher purpose than to incite angry responses. I'm all for intelligent disagreement, and there's plenty of that on this board. I simply tire of posters whose content is, basically, "Look at me! I'm poking you!" Post something useful or intelligent, bennybob, and I'll be glad to change my opinion of your posts.

bradynsdad 5 years, 6 months ago

Bennybob is a troll. Check out his posts. I am pretty sure he is a Kentucky wildcat.

Woody Cragg 5 years, 6 months ago

Certainly you jest. Misery fans are so full of the hatred for never having any real accomplshment to associate with (5th down, Tyus Endey, Stipo shooting himself, etc.) that it just may be a decendant of ole Jesse James. Sure likes to blow his on horn...maybe even flutes too, who knows when someone sounds that hatefully negative. Wouldn't shock me if that was a BS in AE!!! Quite experienced in the ways of the world since is an 09' grad, don't you think? Sure is making a huge impression to the posters on this website. LOL.

kerbyd 5 years, 6 months ago

I agree nj. "The Twin's Reputation called into Question", is not reflected in what coach Self said in this article. In fact it is quite the opposite.

NJHAWK 5 years, 6 months ago

+1. I completely agree with you. Great post.

Trent Smith 5 years, 6 months ago

+1 Posted something similar on the article that mentioned his "snakes coming out" tweet. The naysayers didn't like it and decided to attack me as well. Saw one supporter accused of looking through rose colored glasses. Hell yeah! My team is 24-2. My glasses are beyond rosy! They are Crimson!

NH_JHawk 5 years, 6 months ago

We're beating this issue like a dead horse now. Perhaps Gary noticed that Keegs got 388 comments on his story with a similar headline and now they have a bet going to see if Gary's can eclipse the 300 mark too? It's all about the clicks and it's working! I can't even help myself from commenting on this story.

NJHAWK 5 years, 6 months ago

I was thinking of the same. It was a shoddy jounalism from Keegan. I did not post that day, unfortunately today I could not stop myself. It is all about clicks. These guys are going for the record. Somebody needs to take a deep look in to JW's agenda. Keegan did not cover the real cause of loss objectively.

LAJayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

You don't have to look that deep. They are a business. They work in ad revenue which is generated by clicks. They need clicks.

It's the face of journalism today across the board, unfortunately. Sensationalism sells.

Hank Cross 5 years, 6 months ago

Keegan is stupid, but he's no fool. He knows that 90% of the nonsense he writes is pure comment bait.

akl6593 5 years, 6 months ago

Thank you Coach Self...I think it is shameful the way some "fans" on these boards have just attacked the twins after a bad game...calling them "thugs" I thought was wrong.

Bob Thompson 5 years, 6 months ago

You don't call every foul you see or the teams would be shooting free throws for 2 hours. When someone one keeps pushing the envelope, the ref will finally get tired of it and blow the whistle. When you have the twins out there, what the refs see is doubled so you see more fouls called.

This doesn’t explain the intentional fouls, and the foul at K-State most likely wouldn’t have been called at all if the guard hadn’t been cutting through between the bigs.

RockCaCO3 5 years, 6 months ago

Didnt Keegan just write an article about this? We get the point. I'm sure Keif gets the point. Put it to rest, and lets move on.

Rock Chalk boys, March is around the corner.

jayhawkinATL 5 years, 6 months ago

Obviously, they (the twins) DON'T get it...they keep doing dumb$hit things that ultimately ends up hurting the entire team.

Ben Simonett 5 years, 6 months ago


yeah man, but marcus tweeted about the fans not being nice to him, that means we can't say anything bad anymore.

well unless you actually think for yourself and aren't a completely biased eternal optimistic like most of the fans on this site.

voygr1 5 years, 6 months ago

Its time to call it like it was John Higgins was whistle happy from the start against the Hawks!!! That was clear after Coach Self complained. The foul against Kief was right but not intentional Kief turned and Pullen ducked down causing the blow to the neck. Watch the replay and it is obvious!!! There are some very poor officials in big 12 and he is one of the worst and most biased. Where is Ed Hightower when you need him. To blow off a coach after one of his players is slugged in the face is inexcusable!!! Higgins is arrogant and that has no place in college sports.

FairgroveJayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Looking forward to the next game and the rest of the season.

keith horinek 5 years, 6 months ago

The twins are aggressive, period. Show me one game this year where their behavior cost us a game. The KSU game was a team loss, Markeiff did not cost us the game with his foul. I thought it was a bad call, Markeiff was screening and Pullen tried to run between them and got a forearm in the mouth, it should have been a no call. this is a good team and they will go far, we are making too much of all this "aggressiveness" by the twins, they are passionate and want to win.

REHawk 5 years, 6 months ago

If I'm an opposing coach, I'm prodding my guys to provoke the twins. And if my 1-2-3 players are quick enough to outplay Jayhawk perimeter defenders, we are backcutting or racing to the paint mercilessly. Opposing game plans now: Get one or both of those Philly guys off the court as quickly as possible.

NJHAWK 5 years, 6 months ago

Great point. I replayed the game and saw KSU coach asking a ref to call a foul on Cus a second before the ref whistled him for his second foul. It was a ticky tacky foul. Most of the time, refs will allow that kind of activity at the offensive end. KSU coach knew fully well that once the twins are off the court (without TRob), KU could not get back in the game in that environment. KSU coaches were working the refs through out the first half.

AirCapJay 5 years, 6 months ago

Self needs to teach our guys to drive to the basket and draw fouls more. I guess Selby would be doing that if he were out there. Reed was doing more driving to the basket and it was working. If TT would do more of that (under control) he would be shooting more free through (which he is great at).

yates33333 5 years, 6 months ago

Voygr1, you're right. I never thought I'd like to have Ed Hightower back as a ref, but he was the gold standard compared to what we have now.

Jared Grillot 5 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, love him or hate him, Hightower is like refereeing royalty. Everyone who knows college basketball knows his name, knows him on sight most likely. Anyone know how many tournament games he crewed, or how many times he called the Big Game?

JayHawkFanToo 5 years, 6 months ago

He refereed the '88 and '08 KU Championship games.

Tim Bingaman 5 years, 6 months ago

We have 2 Rasheed Wallaces on this team and I for one am damn happy about it. Tough, great shot, super rebounders, passionate as hell AND can hit the 3. What else could you ask for.

Clarence Haynes 5 years, 6 months ago

Can't wait until we whip the Buffs Butt and move on!

jaybate 5 years, 6 months ago

(Note: Re-posted from last night.)

Note to Every Board Rat:

Say a prayer for OakvilleJHawk. He's having stomach surgery. He posted so a few days back. I don't know why. He didn't say what the problem was. He hasn't posted anything the last two days, so I suspect he has finally gone under the knife and is hopefully recovering on a pot full of pain killers to spare him any hurt.

And as you say the prayer, please remember these words from "Brian's Song."

Gale Sayers: [accepting the George S. Halas award] I'd like to tell you about a guy I know, a friend of mine. His name is Brian Piccolo. And he has the heart of a giant, and that rare form of courage that allows him to kid himself and his opponent, cancer. He has a mental attitude that makes me proud to have a friend who spells out the world 'courage,' 24 hours a day, every day of his life. Now you honor me by giving me this award. But I say to you here now Brian Piccolo is the man who deserves the George S. Halas award. It is mine tonight... and Brian Piccolo's tomorrow. [Theme "Brian's Song" begins to play] Gale Sayers: I love Brian Piccolo. And I'd like all of you to love him too. And so tonight, when you hit your knees, please ask God to love him.

Please substitute OakvilleJHawk for Brian Piccolo above.

Oak, where ever you are, I'm on my knees and I'm askin'.

Rock Chalk! Rock Chalk!

goshenjhawk 5 years, 6 months ago


I had no idea! Hang in there Oak, we need your insight and your awesome lists on these boards:) You are one of my favorite posters. RCJHKU

Ed Brown 5 years, 6 months ago


Nice post JayBate and thanks for the head's up on Oakville.

KU_FanSince75 5 years, 6 months ago

I didn't know about Oakville. Whatever the situation or circumstances might be, good luck and recover quick---just like T-Rob! You are one of my favorite posters. Rock Chalk!

Mike Bratisax 5 years, 6 months ago

Will do...nice move on your part jaybate to bring this to our attention.

NJHAWK 5 years, 6 months ago

I think that Self is telling the league refs that the Twins are treated unfairly. Basically, he is telling them that he did not agree with the call and it was a bogus one by saying, "Every official tells me it’s a bad rule. But it is a rule. It should have been an offensive foul (on Markieff), no question."

I liked when he said that, “They are good kids. They are fun kids, and I enjoy coaching them. They drive me absolutely nuts, but their personality ... I love coaching ’em. You can ask any of our players. They are great teammates.” Basically, he is asking the twin haters to shut up. I hope that JW staff understood that.

bradynsdad 5 years, 6 months ago

Nice post jaybate. I really hope we get chol today, it's nice to keep the big men coming. If anyone has a chance today frank Martin will be on Jim romes radio show. I would love to know what he has to say, I am unable to listen to it.

Bob Forer 5 years, 6 months ago

Historically, HCBS has done a remarkable job morphing a wide ranging variety of exceptionally talented athletes but wet-behind-the-ears, raw, and egocentric boys and young men into a well-tuned, integrated basketball machine. I trust he'll find a way to deal with the latest road bump. His people skills are perhaps as good, or better, than his basketball IQ. We be fine.

Robert Brock 5 years, 6 months ago

I'm not worried about 'tudes; I'm worried about the team's generally weak performance on defense this season. We've beaten a lot of creampuffs. Now comes the hard part.

hawksfan08 5 years, 6 months ago

Interesting read and all are solid points. I would mention that selby was averaging 14 and 5 the three games before he was hurt. I see him as Sherron off the bench with morningstar playing so well at this point. And really with a 4 guard rotation, which Self prefers, that still allows reed bstar taylor and selby to average 30 a game. And I would mention the 08 team had a similarly weak schedule, playing only 3 ranked teams all season. KSU #24, Texas #11 and USC #24. Oh and they lost 2 of those 3 games.

KU1965 5 years, 6 months ago

Nice article; thanks for posting this link.

jaybate 5 years, 6 months ago


KU is missing Selby, who was a starter, and probable first round draft pick, and TRob, who was a sixth man and the only guy on the bench who can withstand XTreme Muscle in the paint. Selby got us 12ppg. TRob got us 9-10 rpg.

KU is not nearly the team it was without Selby and TRob.

Brady can replace Selby the starter, but we have no one to backup Brady, the way Brady could back up Selby.

TRob was our spark of the bench, whenever either of the Twins struggled.

We lost to KSU by 20 precisely because:

-KU shot 20% from trey, which Selby could have improved upon;

-Kieff disappeared, which TRob would have remedied; and

-KSU outrebounded KU, an edge which TRob would certainly have erased.

I am almost certain that even with how bad KU played and shot, had TRob and Selby been healthy, KU would have beaten KSU by 5-10 even with Pullen's career night.

The sky has not fallen, unless TRob and Selby cannot make it back.

I agree both look doubtful for returning to peak form this season, but if they do, KU will resume beating the viscera out of opponents.

Regarding Selby specifically, he was the best thing that ever happened to this team, short of Brady getting out of his slump. The two or three games that both were playing well, KU seemed invincible. They combined to create a wing point that could generate 8-10 assists per game and 4-8 rebounds per game, while combining for 12-20 ppg. If we get Selby back, and Brady keeps playing well, we are monsterous at the 3.

jaybate 5 years, 6 months ago

Regarding the Twins, prior to the KSU game, the Twins had literally carried the team on the backs for almost two months and only lost one game. They were entitled to an off game. What they were not entitled to was for Kieff to literally roll over and goose egg his line score for 20 minutes. But at the same time, the Twins have never experienced the kind of butchery they have been getting lately. And it is going to get more intense. And they are going to have to learn that even when it hurts, even when everything is going against them with the refs, they can still guard their man and get 8 boards. If they can guard their men and get 6-8 boards a piece on an off night, TRob healthy, and our perimeter players, with Selby healthy, can pick up the slack against any team in America.

The team is dealing with XTReme Adversity right now. TRob blew his knee, after losing most of his family. Selby has been badly injured quite awhile now, after losing his best friend to 45 caliber lead poisoning.

Reed is playing, but he clearly isn't as good as he was.

Releford has never recovered his full health and game.

Little is doing what he can, but he needs a couple more games to get a feel for shot selection. And it looks like he's going to get them.

Withey? He isn't very good, but at 7 feet he's better than no bandaid at all.

This team has bridge two weeks, by getting a few wins, taking probably a couple losses, and not letting the losses shoot their confidence. They are going to enter the Madness probably as a 4 seed, if TRob and Selby take another full two weeks to get back to health. They will lose one or two the next two weeks, then one for sure in the conference tournament. They will enter the Madness somewhat like Manning's team did, as a team that was once thought to be pretty good, but ran into a lot of problems during the season, and then came back together for a run at the Madness. This team will not have as many losses as Manning's team, and it will have more good players come the Madness, though not one on the order of magnitude of Manning.

Self's problem is simple: how do you get these guys through 2 weeks of .500 ball, with their confidence intact, and ready to roll again when the TRob and Selby are ready to restore the team to normal strength?

If anyone can pull this off, it is Bill Self-the master of masking and believing.

Brad Boline 5 years, 6 months ago

For one I do wish the Morris Twins would learn that they are a target for intentional/flagrant fouls, ever since the Cal game refs are watching them. They got what I would call the Jeff Graves problem, the refs look for a reason to call a foul or worse. This could eventually cost us a some point. Now I've watched a lot of games, and I think the NCAA should really go over the elbow rules with the refs, when you come down with a reboud, and swing around to clear space, that is Basketball. It's like the big hits in the NFL, some calls were ok but some should have never been called, because the NFL didn't give the refs a detailed explanation on what was considered a hard blow. NCAA really needs the explain what to look for when it comes to a basketball move and what is an intentional move. It should not just be a Judgement call.

Michael Leiker 5 years, 6 months ago

I totally agree about the zone. I think this team would be a great zone team. Not saying they should go all Orangemen or anything crazy like that, but a little mixed in would go a long way. The Hawks have tended to overhelp in man all year, more than any KS team I remember seeing, which is why I think they've given up such a high percentage from 3. I think there is a good chance they would defend the 3 better in a zone.

Mike Bratisax 5 years, 6 months ago

Ted Owens used a zone defense that really shut teams down..the only problem is that slowing down the tempo probably hurts this team more than it helps. Also..rebounding out of a zone defense can be problematic. ***I have no allusions that I am anything more than a fan. I'm not a coach, ref, former player and so on but I do pay attention and like when knowledgeable commentators point out strategy.

AirCapJay 5 years, 6 months ago

Self needs to take more blame when the team is having trouble. Mondays game started out very bad with about 3 failed alley-oop tries. You know that was probably Self who designed those plays (and if they would have been executed correctly would have pumped they team) but they got the crowd into the game big time. The team looked demoralized after those failed alley-oop tries and it went down hill from there. Self looked shocked to see that his team could do nothing, just like he did in the UNI loss last year. Self is a great coach but to use an analogy, I don't know that I would want him to be the captain of my plane when an engine is on fire and smoke is filling the cabin and the weather is bad. Self needs to learn how to coach when the plane is about to crash.

hawk_of_ages 5 years, 6 months ago

Hurray, Captain Hindsight is here to save us!

AsadZ 5 years, 6 months ago

I don't know that I would want him to be the captain of my plane when an engine is on fire and smoke is filling the cabin and the weather is bad.

So which coach, give a name, would you rather have in these circumstances?

Trent Smith 5 years, 6 months ago

Nope..... Jackson's team just got spanked by the Cavs.

angusmcpherr 5 years, 6 months ago

9 points down with 2:12 to go. Seems like the plane was going down then.

Michael Leiker 5 years, 6 months ago

Another Morris Twins Story. Who cares. This is such a non issue for me. That environment in Manhattan on Monday was almost as tough as 2008. 2 losses, big deal. Next game please.

SDSurferFan 5 years, 6 months ago

Voice of reason (Self).....I'd have to say this publication isn't helping the issue. ENOUGH ALREADY.

2 technicals over the course of the season and it's like they are serial killers.

Self is saying what he has to about the Ku tradition, but he knows the K st game was a bad call or a call due to 'reputation.'

Tomorrows headline- 'Morris Twins Elbows an Issue' ENOUGH ALREADY

chaggs 5 years, 6 months ago

We need vertically-challenged guards that jump into defenders on 3 point attempts and run into elbows on picks! Case closed!

Not saying that the calls were bad or wrong...just use the rules to our advantage!!!

justinryman 5 years, 6 months ago

Just like at the begining of the season, a player can not believe what he reads about himself.

Now the Twins need to not believe what they are reading aout them, being thugs(even though they do throw elbos and opponents heads) and just play aggresive basketball.

Hopefully KU dosent have a run in with Ref. Higgins in another big game as he has taken it to a personall level with the Twins. He too needs to forget what happened in the last game or in the news and ref each game without bias.

Joe Baker 5 years, 6 months ago

This is ridiculous. It's becoming like stirred crap. The more it's stirred, the more it stinks. It's not right and the twins have become the target of unnecessary scrutiny.

Let it go and let Self deal with it. The more that is made of it, the more the officials are going to target them. I thought it was beginning to settle before this mess. I've never seen something beat to death over 1-2 players in the entire NCAA. Other players do it, but they are not watched like the twins. I understand the twins have their moments and a lot of this is brought on themselves but this is a little too over the top.

This is bull$#1t and everyone knows it too.

squawkhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

"Unnecessary scrutiny"? What rock are you hiding under. They've created a negative situation and now have to deal with it. They have no one else to blame but themselves. If they can't handle it then Self needs to bench them until they have demonstrated that they can. Maybe Self should take a page from Frank Martin's book on how to deal with screw ups. And the Morris twins are big screw ups.

100 5 years, 6 months ago

Here's my problem, though Marcus & Self weren't going to say anything about it thankfully.

The story really was that KSU played much better than us. That's what happened. We don't have to like it, but that's what happened.


Marcus & Kief really simply played aggressive basketball some of the night. That Pullen layout was complete BS. Technically the NCAA made a rule about that so they had to call it. But watch it again & tell me Pullen doesn't flop. And even if you don't think he does, tell me Kief meant to "hurt" him. That was just a questionable sequence.

Anyway if we're really going to talk bigs in that game, OK, we didn't play that well altogether. KSU did.

So let's talk about KSU's big guy. Anyone want to discuss how Kelly is still suited up in a KSU uniform?

Anyone want to talk about the "rushed" appeal that Frank "I wasn't at the hearing" Martin put together.

Anyone want to talk about a kid who was caught in November for a 2nd drug rules violation & was forced to sit three games?

Anyone want to talk about how Kelly, who was by rules of the KSU handbook, supposed to be kicked off the team, was indeed suited up & boxing out Marcus & Kief?

Anyone want to talk about how on the 2nd infraction Kelly had to sit 3 games while going to drug rehab therapy but on the third time, he had a rushed appeal set up, received zero games (not even one), magically showed up to play Big Monday & presumably won't go to counseling now thanks to Frank greasing somebody's wheels?

Listen if we're going to get caught up in soap opera at least that stuff needs to be written about. KSU beat us (and yes indeed they did), but they also did so with a player who had just been caught by the school on a third offense of a drug policy, which was interestingly enough, supposed to kick the young man off the team.

If we're going to talk/write about this game, how about discussing something that actually happened?

Joe Baker 5 years, 6 months ago

All the critics won't be happy untill the twins bend over and allow others to completely own them. I will support them 100% for being aggressive, even if it may hurt a little in a game. I support EJ to for his comments. I know it's not the best behavior. If you know anything about bball, if a team starts getting physical and you don't respond, you'll be manhandled the entire game.

Did you see the flagrant fouls that were called against KState. There was a lot of hacking and banging. The only time the refs called a foul against KState was when the twins went up strong and KState banged them and grabbed them in the act of shooting. I'm not blaming the refs for the loss at all, but I will question their calls all night when necessary. You're blind if you don't see the blatantly bias against the twins every game. If you're going to allow one team to be physical, then allow both teams to play through certain fouls.

squawkhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Self doesn't have a clue on how to handle the twins. This is demonstrated by his rediculous comment, "During games, at times when emotion gets involved, the emotion gets the best of them. It’s not really who they are, but it’s a maturity thing,”. What nonsense is this? If they do it, it is who they are. If they do it repeatedly, it is who they are. It doesn't matter if it is a maturity thing or not, if they do it then it is who they are and they deserve whatever negative reaction they get from it. Don't blame other teams for targeting them and don't blame the officials for targeting them. The have created their own situation and now they have to deal with it. Self bette get a handle on it quickly before it is too late.

hawk_of_ages 5 years, 6 months ago

So what's he supposed to say about his own players? Jump on the bandwagon and call them thugs?

It's obvious that when he says "this is not who they are," he's partly addressing it to them -- to encourage them to work through this. What else would you expect a coach to say?

GabrielMichael 5 years, 6 months ago

Keif and Cus, if you're reading this... prove the detractors wrong with your actions on the court. The Jayhawk Nation is behind you! Self-control is a virtue and must be worked on and conditioned just like your 3 pt. stroke! Just add it to your already broad repertoire of moves!

Ed Brown 5 years, 6 months ago


Show it on the court and everyone shuts up exept the banker that has to count your money. If you get it now, you will wear out the banker early. If you don't, you will take more years to wear out the banker. Either way, the banker wins. Now go out and lead this team to V-I-C-T-O-R-Y!!


No_phog 5 years, 6 months ago

“I think the reason they got the foul is because it was a twin. That’s my personal opinion, but still it was the right call,” Self said

DUH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

one or the other, because he's a thug, or right call !

KU_alum_2001 5 years, 6 months ago

AsadZ already posted this but in case anyone misses it above, it's worth a read, although you probably won't like (or will outright hate) what King has to say.;_ylt=AsElAwnZ6EYay0mVLhXNTbTevbYF?slug=jn-big12021711

AsadZ 5 years, 6 months ago

I dont like it but I cant disagree with the article

BCRavenJHawkfan 5 years, 6 months ago


"Self said replays showed Markieff did deserve the whistle Monday, because of a new rule that automatically calls for an intentional foul when a player hits another above the shoulders."

"The screen aka elbow" was at the chest of the player initially involved, the spark plug Pullen jumped into the gap that only crickets could get through and because of his size the "screen" is at his head.

I imagine all this is working in the Twins favor for the NBA. You can't tell me there are not teams looking at these guys and thinking "Detroit Piston Badboy Type".

Mike Bratisax 5 years, 6 months ago

This 'RULE' is completely puts taller players at a disadvantage. What should they do when shorter players are fighting for rebounds or trying to tie up the ball?

Ed Brown 5 years, 6 months ago

I think the twins are very much aware the refs are watching them. The attitude/maturity part is knowing this and then not letting other players get into their heads and take them out of their usual intensity. They get upset at a call and it sometimes carries for several plays until they look as if they are seeking out retribution. They get yanked even and sit on the bench showing each other what they "really did" and why it shouldn't have been called. TRob had worked into the role of peacekeeper and pulling the team together when things were getting frustrated and this should be the natural role of the twins and Taylor and somewhat Reed and Morningstar. It should technically be the upper classmen but the true leader of the team has not emerged since Collins left, imho.

No_phog 5 years, 6 months ago

Could you imagine a player screaming back at Roy Williams? See ya !

Scott Oswalt 5 years, 6 months ago

I LOVE THE MORRIS TWINS. even if they do throw them bows....

Mike Joseph 5 years, 6 months ago

Just a thought. While watching Mich St. Vs Ohio St. the other night, late in the second half, Draymond Green of MSU got teed up for slamming the ball to the floor after a foul. Following a brief discussion with Izzo, Green went to the head official, Jim Burr (who might have been around since Naismith) and apologized for his indescetion. ESPN had the Burr mic'd up for the game so everyone heard Green's apology.

My point is this, I think instead of pouting every time they get called for a foul, the twins need to accept that they don't control the game, the officials do. And if they get called for any intentionals or flagrant fouls in the future, to man-up and aplogize to the head referee instead of crying and complaining on the bench. This is the only way to mend whatever negative reputation the twins might be labeled with.

Kye Clark 5 years, 6 months ago

I'm tired of this subject too. More so I'm tired of reading posts where anyone who is critical of the Twins' play is referred to as a "fan" (always in quotes), or an antler, a troll, someone who has never played basketball, etc. Are we not allowed to have opinions of our own and offer up criticism? No one seems to have a problem with the continued jabs at Xavier, but saying the Twins need to be more careful and some fans act like someone beat up their little brother. There are definitely a few isolated cases of posters taking it too far, and maybe some of the actual criticism could have been worded better, but I said this yesterday - being critical of someone's play does not equal disloyalty.

The other thing I really don't like is the first Marcus tweet yesterday and how so many posters thought it was a call to arms. Playing at an elite program like Kansas is like playing for the NY Yankees. If you don't want to see what is written about you, don't read the back pages of the NY papers, or in this case the comment section of this website. I had a problem with it earlier in the year when they had used it for motivation (I forget which game it was, but it was basically said that "everyone was expecting us to lose and we wanted to prove everyone wrong", or something to that effect). As an athlete you could make yourself crazy worrying about what every fan thinks of you. Do you really care what Joe Blow from Salina thinks? And does it affect your play? I hope not. And "us against the world"? You go out to 16,300 every game. EVERY game. And when you go on the road anywhere there are always far more KU fans than any other visiting team could expect. This is to say nothing of the overwhelming support fans from across the country showed TRob. We all need to blow off steam - fans and players alike - and I'm hoping that's what that was.

Like Fairgrove said above, I'm ready for the Colorado game. Love this team, and am curious as to how we'll respond. And hopefully soon the conversation will come back to actual basketball, not this 3 day old garbage and every poster coming up with their own test to gauge others' support of this team.

Kurt Eskilson 5 years, 6 months ago

I absolutely agree with you, icthawkfan, that this board needs to be a place where all Hawk fans can say what they believe, from glowing praise to scathing criticism. The garbage I can't abide is when posters show up out of nowhere (usually in times of controversy) and unleash post after post of mindlessly negative drivel with the obvious intent of trolling for angry responses. What a huge waste of a great board! I'd be against calling a legitimate poster a troll. But most of the regular fans here know a troll when they see one, and I certainly appreciate it when trolls get called out.

Hank Cross 5 years, 6 months ago

Great post which highlights two somewhat contradictory notions. First, I agree that the players shouldn't care about what is posted here. During the Brady debates several of his defenders complained that the negativity here could affect him. I replied that if he wants to coming running out to the floor at AFH to 16,000 fans and be on national tv all the time, criticism comes with the territorry. The players are grown men and in the words of Mizery's mascot's namesake, "If you can't take the heat..."

That being said, all the people that were in here the past couple of days with posts like: 'I've been saying all year the twins were Philly thugs,' were a joke. They weren't posting that after the twins had great games. How are they thugs? Granted that they have watch themselves on the court, but they haven't committed any crimes.

Kye Clark 5 years, 6 months ago

Viking76 & oxcaljayhawk - I agree 100% that we had more than our fair share of fair-weather fans that showed up out of the blue with these criticisms. The poster "theend" was a good example of this, and I posted against his garbage, before finally deciding to ignore it. Jayhawkinnebr was another example of someone whose criticisms were pretty ridiculous.

KU_FanSince75 5 years, 6 months ago

I haven't heard from jayhawkinnebr for a while now---did he get banned?

Ron Franklin 5 years, 6 months ago

I wish I had more time to elaborate these days....

my, my, my how quickly people forget. this is not about one game. this isn't about two games, or 20 games. it isn't even about one season. for me, my judgement comes from nearly 3 years of observable behaviors exhibited by the twins.

I will not say they are not good basketball players. They are fantastic ballers & will play in the league.

I will question their character. And Self disguises the truth right to the face of the fanbase? Are you kidding me? Bill, true character is not shown when things are going well. True character is shown when life reveals it's worst moments & throws us in the mix.

And although, I am not a believer of ‘perception is reality’, a good portion of people believe this to be true. I’ve been following this board for 5 years now. I remember what people were saying about the Twins when they were freshmen. I remember the praise of their improvement last year and into this year.

But I also remember, since day one on campus the Twins have complained to the referees about EVERY single foul called on them. I have officiated at the collegiate level (baseball) and I can guarantee you umpires & referees get sick of this crap. Right or wrong, human judgement is involved.

So in my opinion people need to get off their high (and low) horses and accept our situation for what it is. We have two very solid basketball players who have proven for 3 years they cannot control their emotions. Even after several lashings from the coach to control the issue, the situation still arises.

I’m not a pessimist. I’m a realist. Blast away.

Chris Shaw 5 years, 6 months ago

Totally off subject: This is the part of the season where I enjoy looking up other schools from other conferences and see how their season is progressing. While I was looking up some other schools I ran across the San Francisco Dons.

After starting the season 6-10 they are currently 7-3 in second place in the West Coast Conference. 2 of their 3 losses in conference have come against St. Mary's, but it looks like Rex Walters has his kids buying into his system. Glad Walters is experiencing some success. One of my all-time favorite Jayhawks.

Another game we should all watch will be Feb 26th between BYU and San Diego State.

Also, Temple and Duke play next Wednesday for a really late non-conference game.

Steve Gantz 5 years, 6 months ago

KU used to go late non-conf games back in the 80's when I attended there. The Jason King story on Yahoo sports today calls out our weak schedule.

Yes it's fun to see former 'Hawks doing well whether it's playing in the pros or coaching in college.

Chris Shaw 5 years, 6 months ago

wissox: I actually think it's good. I think you get comfortable with teams from your own conference or the style in which they play. Duke played St. Johns and now play Temple next week. From a recruiting standpoint, I think it's good to get out during the conference slate from a regional standpoint.

Chris Shaw 5 years, 6 months ago

Hopefully, KU can gain some ground back up on his recruitment. Still behind.

Funhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Its an unusually warm winter day. The sun is out. As usual, our Hawks seldom lose. So glad the twins chose Lawrence as their home. What a great day to be a Jayhawk!

bdk980 5 years, 6 months ago

It's amazing how many people have been coming out of the woodwork in recent days. My first reaction after watching the KSU game was "three blind mice." The fans in Bramlage were clammoring for a foul call whenever contact was made, and it sure seemed like the officials were feeding into it towards the early part of the game. It didn't help us one bit that Pullen had a career day, 20 points in 8 mins... can anyone say DAM...but I for one feel that the officiating seriously disrupted our team getting into the flow of the game from the get go. If anything, the KSU game "exposed" a problem of composure, not talent. At the end of the day, the twins need to do a better job of keeping THEIR composure. If you recall the games in which they received techs/intentional (whathaveyou)...for the most part, Marc/Mark was not the aggressor in the situation...they were the reactor. Its amazing how the Twins are getting so much attention about this... if anyone deserves to be called a "thug" its that Guiterez kid from Cal and that punk from Nebraska. Also, while i don't want to deflect for a second from the twins, this is a great chance to see what they are made of and (hopefully) watch them grow a bit and mature... these officials, in incidences where the tech/int. call WAS warranted (as the one against KSU and Nebraska left me scratching my head), need to do a better job of keeping the game in check so the game doesn't even get to that point. I love the twins... I think they have come so far since their freshman years... but man, they'd be better off if they just kept their mouths shut. My philosophy in life has always been, let your actions speak for you. Anyone can talk to the talk...and I am fully confident that they can "walk the walk," but they have been thrusted into a major leadership role on the team this year and people are taking shots at them (trying to provoke them, calling them out, etc.) because time has shown that they can or (its' possible, likely even) that they have developed a reputation and their is now a bias against them. One of my favorite quotes... cream always rises to the top. I, personally, think these guys are cream (or very capable of being), they just need to show that they can get past the small stuff, focus on their game, and rise above it.... Soley my opinion, I've been a loyal KU Jayhawk since I was a tyke, but they need to drop this me against the world mentality. I think its great that they are developing a chip on their soldier, they aren't being pampered by the media (wake up the beast right before march) but they and the team needs to focus on every game, one at a time. On a side note.... wheres that link been to vote for Tyrel?

No_phog 5 years, 6 months ago

"a chip on their soldier" ???????????????????????????????????

bdk980 5 years, 6 months ago

my bad... insert shoulder for soldier...

EyeQue21519 5 years, 6 months ago

Fouls, Intentional fouls and flagrant fouls are a part of the game . other wise it wouldn't be in the rule book. Now im not saying this to make excuses or to condone the mental lapses of the twins but, when you have to bang and bump and battle with large men who have a personal mission to stop you from hanging a 20pt loss, plus two double doubles on your team and your skill set is comparable you probably go out of your way to "pull their foul" which is slang for provoke the hot head... the Morris' are a formidable duo when in tune with the game but get them off their game and you can have a chance to win. Comes with the territory but to vilify these kids criticize their character is extreme, and needs to be put in check. Yes the loose their cool but the fouls are not losing us games the free throws are. As well as the lack of defensive back bone in fact they need to be tougher harder and stronger and if hitting someone in the mouth UNINTENTIONALLY is a side affect of that then lets get ready to rumble!!!!!

REHawk 5 years, 6 months ago

OakvilleJHawk, we wish you a speedy recovery...and return to this lineup.

REHawk 5 years, 6 months ago

If I am a ref, and a player is whining or overplaying emotion about consecutive calls, my attention will be focused on that player. That is my nature, and, I daresay, the naure of most officials, other than, perhaps, Ed Hightower...who is likely to take that player immediately aside and speak to him succinctly about his actions.

KU_FanSince75 5 years, 6 months ago

As icthawkfan316 said before on an extended post, I am too, getting tired of the twins elbows issues. Let's move on, shall we? When all the dust settles after Selection Sunday (March 13th), and the field of 68 has been announced, then, the Jayhawks can focus on the goal at hand---making it to the Final Four in Houston. Good luck, by the way K-State, on making the field of 68.

Larry Smith 5 years, 6 months ago

The biggest problem here is the rule and the labeling of the foul. If there is contact above the shoulders, it must be called an intentional foul. Regardless if it was actually intentional in nature. Had these fouls just been personal fouls as they have been in the past, then no one would be raising a stink about it.

If you take out the bad (in the words of Coach Self) intentional foul label, then what do you have really have? One undeserved Technical from the Nebraska game, and the Flagrant in the Cal Game from Marcus. I can live with that.

Chris Shaw 5 years, 6 months ago

They were totally making fun of Reddick this morning on the Dan Patrick show.

Dan Pawlowski 5 years, 6 months ago

Hmm, calling another persons character into question is really a more telling indication of their own character.

BBKU 5 years, 6 months ago

I've been reading the posted comments for the past two days. You people are either crazy or completely clueless. First of all, on the play against K-State, Kief is supposed to set a pick for the guard who gets the pass on the wing. Markief is supposed to the seal his defender and look for an entry pass for the guard on the wing. The play was a foul but could have been the result of Kief setting a moving pick while moving to seal off his defender who was above or further away from the basket. Pullen, who is 5' 11" at best ,tries to split the two big men and gets hit or runs into Markief's hand.The play was more indicative of the horrible way that Markief and the team played--not of any attempt to hurt someone. It was a foul but is certainly not an intentional act It was called an intentional foul either because of his reputation ( bad refing) or the strict interpretaion of a bad rule.

In the meantime many of you so called fans on this site have attacked the twins character. One person even suggested that KU should not recruit players from the East Coast because they were of poor character. Instead, KU should do like Roy W did, and recruit from the West Coast. Really? CJ Giles was from the West Coast . JR Gidden was a midwest kid from Oklahoma. How did those two recruits turn out?

Character is a measure of how people handle themselves in a variety of situations and with a variety of people. I'd say that how they have adjusted-- coming from Philadephia-- to life in Kansas ; how they interact and support their teammates( ie Thomas Robinson) suggest that these are two young men of character. Anyone who believes that their character is measured by a few stupid acts on a basketball court has never played competative sports.

Relax and enjoy the games. You will miss them when they are gone.


Chris Shaw 5 years, 6 months ago

It's a lot easier to respond to a post that you disagree with than putting a general post out there that talks about "You People". You'll become more credible as a poster in the future. Not attacking you, just trying to help.

Trent Smith 5 years, 6 months ago

I think the "you people" works just fine here. I'm sure you've seen the vast number of different people posting in the way he was referencing. No reason to make an exhaustive list of everyone who came out attacking. It was difficult at times to even tell if some of them were KU fans or trolls from KSU or MU. The "you people" address works kind of like "if the shoe fits...." I didn't post any of that crap so I knew just fine that he wasn't addressing his post to me. I think what he posted makes him a credible poster. Credible debater may be another issue.

Kurt Eskilson 5 years, 6 months ago

+1 The "primetime posters" are leading the way today!

HawkBBall 5 years, 6 months ago

Enough said about the foul by Kief.

I'm focused on the comment, “We didn’t have a group that night that rallied around it (loud Bramlage Coliseum crowd). We weren’t a team. We were individuals.” I think this identifies the weakness in this team. It rears its ugly head in adversity. Which player will lead? It is usually the point guard; but not on this team. Seniors, Brady and Tyrel, might need to step up and become vocal and motivational leaders. I think both have the respect of their 'mates.

manunitedjayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

I was always taught to "headhunt" and "make good contact" when setting a screen on or away from the ball. That is not dirty, it is how you play good physical basketball. I don't care what type of reputation a player has, that call could have gone either way. Why people are even talking about it still amazes me. If a 5'11 guy is trying to split two opposing post men and trailing the guy he is guarding he himself has put himself in a bad position. It is also called "weight room." I am amazed at the lack of physicality that is allowed now in college basketball. Just because someone likes to get physical and talk a little trash on the floor doesn't make them "thugs" or "idiots." Being a fierce comepetitor brings out the worst in people, anyone ever hear about Michael Jordan punching Steve Kerr in the face during practice? The Morris twins are tough, hard nosed, no nonsense basketball players. Yeah they have mental lapses, but if you are talking about it losing games for us then look at it this way. A player turns the ball over on a fast break in which a layup should have been made, the opposing team goes down the floor cans a 3 pointer, thus they are able to get into a full court press, they get a steal and score 2 more points. That turnover has just as much of an effect of winning or losing as an intentional foul would. That is a 7 point swing. People just need to understand basketball, it is hard to if you never played at a high level. I think the majority of the Morris' twins critics have not played college sports at any level so they don't understand certain aspects of sports. I am with Coach Self and the rest of this team regardless of what happened against K-State. Let's just relax and watch how this team handles the rest of the season. Trust me college basketball is weak this year, no dominant teams at all. I think it is safe to say that Ohio State, Pitt, and Texas have seperated them from the pack but that means nothing at this point. I do think a #1 seed is still possible if we win out and win the Big 12 tournament. All is well with Coach Self leading the ship folks, we are going to be ok.

Steve Gantz 5 years, 6 months ago

"I am amazed at the lack of physicality that is allowed now in college basketball"

Is this a typo?

The turnover leading to 7 points? What's that got to do with this?

Have you played "at a high level...of college sports"?

"No dominant teams at all" "Ohio St, Pitt and Texas have separated themselves from the pack" You're contradicting yourself all through this thing!

manunitedjayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

It has to do with folks saying how much the Twins' actions are losing games for us. There are alot of things you can do on the basketball court that can lose your team a game. You need to read a little more buddy. Ohio St, Pitt, and Texas have seperated themselves as far as conference records and overall strength of schedule. Good try though. Yeah I played D1 athletics, regardless that has nothing to do with setting a hard screen and it being an intentional foul. Again, good try.

Steve Gantz 5 years, 6 months ago

Oh thanks for giving me credit for trying. My point was your post rambled all over the place. A lot of it contradicted itself. So I'll read more as you suggest and you take a writing course or two.

Steve Gantz 5 years, 6 months ago

Oh thanks for giving me credit for trying. My point was your post rambled all over the place. A lot of it contradicted itself. So I'll read more as you suggest and you take a writing course or two.

Larry Smith 5 years, 6 months ago

In other news... Congrats to Tyrel and Brady for selection to the 2011 Academic All-Big 12 Basketball team. Great Job by both!

Kristen Downing 5 years, 6 months ago

I totally agree with Jason King's story. The twins will shape up for a couple of games and then one of them will pull a knucklehead technical again. They don't need more mommy, they need more Self!

Scott Smetana 5 years, 6 months ago

I'm feeling much better 3 days removed from Valentine's day. I hope the team is too. In case any players/coaches actually read our dribble, I hope you know that we all are a bit nuts. We really don't know all that much about basketball, especially coaching. We truly support Coach Self and players at all times. Sorry for our negativity. There's no doubt we have awesome class and character on this team. Now let's all get our act together and burst Colorado's bubble!

Michael Luby 5 years, 6 months ago

I had the pleasure of meeting Thomas Robinson last night walking around on Mass street. He looked like he was walking around without any pain or limp at all. I told him I hope he gets well soon and gets back into the game soon too. He was very gracious and kind. Great guy to have on the team.

Clarence Haynes 5 years, 6 months ago

I had the pleasure to meet him not too long ago and taking into account what he has been through, he was extemely courteous and down to earth.

Kurt Eskilson 5 years, 6 months ago

Sorry if I'm starting to come off as some kind of cheerleader, but the above thoughtful insight is exactly what I come here and read through 137 posts to discover. Thanks, drgnslyr!

David Howell 5 years, 6 months ago

Drgnslyr, I agree with some of what you have said.

However, the term "Twins" and "Playground" is sadly fairly synonymous. Too often they play like we've seen kids play on the playground where the only rules are men are men and call your own fouls. However, last I checked the Twins are playing organized ball with rules.

Yes, I know we need the twins. But I am tired of everyone saying all is rosy and will be fine. We've lost too many times in the 2nd or 3rd round to far lesser NIT quality type teams. The alarmists are bringing up valid points.

I know the Twins are human and young, but in fact they are juniors in the basketball world and know right from wrong. Until they realize they are hurting the team with their actions, it must might be a lost cause. As we observe them on the court (for 99.5% of us that is only where we see them) it never seems to be their fault. Maybe that is the root of the problem.

Chris Shaw 5 years, 6 months ago

Maybe this was the game where people questioned Rodman's toughness? Maybe after this game was when he went out and got his first tattoo?

Chris Shaw 5 years, 6 months ago

Sorry, was responding to drgnslayer's post.

David Howell 5 years, 6 months ago

Interesting ? So maybe that explains the hundreds of tatoo's on their arms ..........

Joe Baker 5 years, 6 months ago

Recruiting note- Chol picks today at 12:45 Pacific and 2:45 CST

Maybe good news for KU

Chris Shaw 5 years, 6 months ago

Not a chance! Chol picks Zona! Would be a huge surprise if he picks KU.

Chris Shaw 5 years, 6 months ago

Personally, I think it was down to Zona and Washington, but for headline purposes that read, "Chol Picks Zona over Kansas and UNC" is more sexy. Hard to get excited if a guy chooses Zona over Washington and Alabama.

I know it says KU and UNC were in his final 3, but Miller is doing a good thing down there with recruiting and I'm sure he wants people to take notice of the job he's doing. It's easy to build a power back up when you can promise playing time, but it's another to sustain it.

Jack Wilson 5 years, 6 months ago

No Chol = TRob and Withey at the 4-5 next season (assuming Morrises turn pro). No other real post players, but for the walk-on Wesley. Dangerously thin.

100 5 years, 6 months ago

So a few of you have hit on an interesting point. KSU was already playing well anyway, but the game was essentially a three point game early in the 1st half when Pullen ran into this surprise "elbow" of Markief.

Most of us have sided with Kief on this issue (realizing the NCAA calls for a foul here), indeed Kief didn't do this on purpose, & indeed it did look like Pullen jumped into the elbow & flopped. So we were outplayed for sure Monday night, but this was definitely a turning point in the game. Trobb is out. Kief sits the rest of the half. Marcus appears miffed, understandably in my opinion. Now Marcus is the tallest player we have left in the game. And in comes Withey to help him out.

And there we sit without Kief after the Pullen academy award flying flop into Kief's shoulder.... And there stands KSU with 6'9" McD All American Curtis Kelly, a kid who had just been caught for the third time this year violating a subtace abuse urine test at KSU, sped through the hearing by Frank so he wouldn't miss a game (even though he was forced to miss 3 games earlier in the season when he failed the 2nd drug test).

So there's the situation...

Now... All this said, regarding what got this odd situation for KU in the first half rolling & very well played into the final outcome of the game being so lopsided (the Pullen dive into Kief's shoulder) I am left wondering if the friendship between Marcus & Pullen can be put on the backburner from now on.

I mean lets face it... That was Marcus's brother... And it is FOE & Pullen used Marcus' brother as a puppet pretty bad right there. Pullen showed a lot of class in this game, but this was not part of the other 99% of his class that Bob Knight couldn't stop drooling over. This indeed, was a cheap underhanded play on a good friend's spirit, his twin, a play so dirty it is reserved only for European soccer. Or Duke's playbook.

Regarding this Pullen Academy Award, I at least hope they wait until mid April to chat on the phone. Pullen seems like a decent kid but he also flopped into one of our players to get three free throws early in the game. It was legal. Except our player wasn't going directly into him. Pullen leaned in for the contact & flopped so by the rulebook it should have been a no call.

Again KSU beat us fair & square.

I just hope Pullen can start going to his own practices & stay off the phone with Lawrence, Kansas for a couple months.

Steve Gantz 5 years, 6 months ago

I didn't see it as a flop, obviously some did. I think you are rational however and acknowledge that the call may have hurt us some, but we were out of sorts all night. Hard to get anything going offensively all night. Even harder to get anything going defensively.

Hawkamania 5 years, 6 months ago

"Regarding this Pullen Academy Award, I at least hope they wait until mid April to chat on the phone. Pullen seems like a decent kid but he also flopped into one of our players to get three free throws early in the game. It was legal. Except our player wasn't going directly into him. Pullen leaned in for the contact & flopped so by the rulebook it should have been a no call."

I was livid as can be when he got that foul call. Taylor clearly jumped to the side of him on that shot and Pullen went out of his way to jump left and into him for that shot. I fully understand the foul call if Taylor jumped towards him and Pullen jumped into him but that wasn't the case at all. Pullen intentionally jumped to the left and into Taylor looking for the foul call and got it. My friends kept saying it was the right call this and that and it always happens in the NBA. ITS NOT THE NBA!

Should have been a no call. Now If Taylor had jumped towards Pullen and he jumped into him thats a different story. Taylor clearly jumped away from Pullen and he jumped to the left and into him for the foul. Refs should have seen this and kept the whistle quiet.

Dale Kroening 5 years, 6 months ago

I dont like the rule, but you see it both in college and the league. Paul Pierce does it quite a bit actually. The thing I dont like about that specific call is Pullen moved to his left putting his shoulder down to make contact with Tyshawn and threw the ball up, he wasnt jumping straight up or forward shooting the ball, he jumped to the left and it should have been a no call or even possibly an offensive foul imo.

100 5 years, 6 months ago

Totally agree cap10d.

Truthfully that was a huge momentum boost for them early in the game too.

Again we probably get beat anyway, maybe only by 10, but it's two huge questionable moments Pullen had that really changed the tempo of the game (Kief & Taylor). Heck one of those two flop moves removed our "center" for the final 10 minutes of the second half!

Eric Bernauer 5 years, 6 months ago

I guess it is clear now how to beat Kansas. The opponent only needs to put one man on defense and wait for one of the three Hawks bearing down on him to invariably and inexplicably throw the ball to him. He then throws the ball back down the court to where his remaining 4 teammates out number the 2 remaining Hawks and dunk on them. It would be comical if I didn't bleed crimson and blue, but I can't remember any other team blowing so many 3 on 1 situations.

kufaninNM 5 years, 6 months ago

In my opinion, I think Bill should have let Markeiff set on the bench the rest of the game after the indentional foul. That game was an embarrassment to the rest of the players and fans. It was all about the rivelry between the two teams and they (KU) did'nt even come to play a game. They kept the refs busy, that's for sure! Hope they get their heads screwed on straight by March Madness time or they'll be going home soon, real soon!!

Jim Darnall 5 years, 6 months ago

I have been a KU fan most of my life and have stood by them even thru the rough times, but anyone watching the game knows his elbow was deffineately aimed at the head and not the chest. He tried but failed to cover it up.and then act surprised at the intentional foul. It was defineately blantent and intended for what it was. These brothers need to be shown that that kind of conduct is not wanted by true KU fans.I was very imbarassed by their play and angry at the same time. That kind of play is not what KU is about and it needs to be addressed. I would have felt better if he would have been kicked out of the game. That might get his attention and that sort of stuff would not happen again. To not make him understand the consequences for those kind of actions will not help him grow up with the right mind set.

Craig Colgin 5 years, 6 months ago

The Morris twins are monsters, I love em!!! They have both made some mistakes(as do we all) and now they are paying for those mistakes(as do we all). Let's encourage them to take step 3:learn and apply! This is usually the hardest part of makin mistakes. You will always be Jayhawks boys, we believe in you, prove us right, we know you will!!! ROCK CHALK!!!!!!

Jim Darnall 5 years, 6 months ago

I agree with what you say. Let's hope they both move to the next step and apply what they have learned. They mainly need to understand that flying elbows just aren't tolerated any more. Playing hard and being agressive is great, but there are lines not to cross. It is part of the learning process and it is time for the process to start being learned.

Saad Saifeddine 5 years, 6 months ago

I really liked how Coach Self discussed the twins situation and the overall leadership during his weekly press conference video (part 2). Check it out guys:

Saad Saifeddine 5 years, 6 months ago

I really liked how Coach Self discussed the twins situation and the overall leadership during his weekly press conference video (part 2). Check it out guys:

KansasComet 5 years, 6 months ago

I sure hope Kansas can win the game Saturday. Maybe just maybe, everyone will enjoy the win, while remembering how bad losing feels and move on? Hopefully?

KULA 5 years, 6 months ago

These guys shouldn't get a bad rep. They've both had a somewhat dirty play or two, but lots of players do--that's basketball. The thing is, they've both been flagged when they did nothing wrong, just because the ref didn't see what happened. Just bad luck.

Jack Wilson 5 years, 6 months ago

Marcus had one bad moment .. the elbow in the Cal game. To be honest, when I played, I did much worse .. obviously not D-1 on TV, though. Most of us that have played the game have popped someone, or some have taken swing at somebody. We aren't thugs, I don't think. And Marcus is no thug. The T vs. Nebraska was baloney, and at worst, it was just verbal stuff. No big deal. The guy has an edge to him. I'll take that.

I will take a guy like Marcus on my team any day. He is a completely unselfish player, he truly attempts to make his teammates better, he always plays within himself, and he is an absolutely complete player. I'll say it again ... he is completely unselfish. This guy can put us on his back and take us to the title. I firmly believe that. Marcus has the complete game.

Markieff has had two intentional fouls in a short span. But Markieff is no thug. Thugs are consistent in their approach to life, and approach to competition. We could identify a few in the sports world. Like his brother, Kieff is an unselfish player. Like his brother, he has busted his ass in the offseason and made himself better. Like his brother, the guy bleeds crimson and blue. Like his brother, he will be a big success in the league. Like his brother, he too can put this team on his back.

I've thought about this for a bit .. yea, the stuff ticked me off. We don't need it. But it isn't the end of the world, and no one got injured. Heck, watching MLB or the NHL, what do we see? A push in the face, an elbow to the head? Again, it is not the end of the world.

What Kieff and Marcus need to do, simply, is do what they have always done. Put the team first. Because if they get T'd up, or booted from a game, it could cost us our season. Do this for the team, guys, like you always have.


Kirk 5 years, 6 months ago

"Us against the world" gives everyone else (opponents, media, refs) too much credit. Rather you have to take responsibility yourself for whatever happens, wins and losses and unfair calls. They come down to you. That's the Phog way, the Larry way, the Roy way, the Self way, the Danny way. The Kansas way. Otherwise you're just like, OU or MU or somebody.

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