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Thursday, February 17, 2011

Morris twins’ reputations called into question

Injured Thomas Robinson could be ready by Oklahoma game on Feb. 26

Brother Marcus Morris, left, and Markieff Morris congratulate each other after grabbing a foul against Iowa State during the first half on Saturday, Feb. 12, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Brother Marcus Morris, left, and Markieff Morris congratulate each other after grabbing a foul against Iowa State during the first half on Saturday, Feb. 12, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

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Moving on from the meltdown in Manhattan

The Kansas University men's basketball team's most recent loss — 84-68 to K-State in Manhattan on Monday — left many Jayhawks scratching their heads about what went wrong. In this "Spodcasters" episode, the guys (Matt Tait, Tom Keegan and Gary Bedore) discuss what led to the Jayhawks' undoing and what ...

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Some highly publicized transgressions on the court during the 2010-11 basketball season have called into question the character of Kansas University’s Morris twins.

“What you see on TV and that kind of stuff is not necessarily who they are,” KU coach Bill Self stated emphatically on Wednesday’s weekly Hawk Talk radio show.

He was speaking two days after Markieff Morris was called for an intentional foul for clipping Jacob Pullen in the face while setting a screen in Monday’s KU-Kansas State game. Markieff also committed an intentional foul on Feb. 7 versus Missouri.

Marcus Morris, meanwhile, was ejected for committing a flagrant foul on Dec. 22 at Cal-Berkeley and also whistled for a ‘T’ on Feb. 5 at Nebraska.

“During games, at times when emotion gets involved, the emotion gets the best of them. It’s not really who they are, but it’s a maturity thing,” Self said.

“They have developed a reputation that is not favorable at all. It is to the point now it’s going to cost them. We thought we had this thing addressed to the point we wouldn’t have to revisit it again. We have had to revisit it.”

Self said any punishment would remain in-house. But he’s certainly not taking the repeat intentional fouls lightly.

“I’ll deal with it my own way with them, but certainly it hurts everybody associated with our program,” he said, adding, “To me, it’s bigger than that. To me, it hurts everybody that supports KU because that is not who we are. That’s not what we stress. They know that. They understand that. They get that, but still yet it happens.”

Self said replays showed Markieff did deserve the whistle Monday, because of a new rule that automatically calls for an intentional foul when a player hits another above the shoulders.

“I think the reason they got the foul is because it was a twin. That’s my personal opinion, but still it was the right call,” Self said. “Kieff said, ‘I didn’t intentionally do it.’ I said, ‘I know you didn’t.’

“He was screening. You’ve got a 5-foot-10 guy running through there, (he) ducks down, and it’s kind of the perfect storm, so to speak. I think it was the right call based on a bad rule.

“I don’t care what anybody says. Every official tells me it’s a bad rule. But it is a rule. It should have been an offensive foul (on Markieff), no question. Anything above the shoulders is an intentional foul so that’s frustrating. It was not like an intentional deal, ‘I’ll go do this,’ but it was a lack of discipline, without question.”

The bottom line is, Self supports the twins 100 percent.

“They are good kids. They are fun kids, and I enjoy coaching them. They drive me absolutely nuts, but their personality ... I love coaching ’em. You can ask any of our players. They are great teammates.”

Message forgotten

Self was disappointed his squad lost its composure two days after meeting with former New York Knicks great Bill Bradley, who spoke with the squad about teamwork and other things before the Iowa State game.

“I told the team, ‘That speech lasted 72 hours,’’’ Self said on Hawk Talk. “It’s so disappointing two days after we talk about this — and guys buy into it — how quickly it can change when things don’t go your way. You’ve got guys on an island trying to survive, as opposed as knowing somebody’s got your back. That’s what happened in Manhattan.

“We didn’t have a group that night that rallied around it (loud Bramlage Coliseum crowd). We weren’t a team. We were individuals.”

Still, as Self said, “It’s one game in a very long season. It’s a marathon. We got our butts whipped there in ’08 (and still won national title). The difference is after losing three of five that year, the guys said, ‘OK, that’s enough.’ This team has to say that, even though it’s just one bad performance.”

KU also lost that season, 61-60, at Oklahoma State before rattling off 13 wins in a row to win the NCAAs.

“On the bus coming back from Stillwater, we said, ‘We won’t win another game. We are so soft. We can’t guard. We don’t care and this, this and this.’ All that team did was go on to win 15 (13) in a row to end it.

“I know there’s a chance we can get this thing turned around. It’s sports. How many great pitchers go out and get shelled in three innings, and you think they’re never going to win another game? Until they take the mound again?”

He did say this team has to develop a tougher defensive mind-set before thinking about accomplishing what happened in the postseason of ’08.

“That team hung its hat on guarding people. This team hangs its hat on scoring. It’s a different mind-set, not what I like, but it’s been the makeup of this team so far. If we get better, we’ll have a shot. If we don’t, we won’t have a shot. It’s not that complicated, but I know the guys care.”

Injuries

Self said he hoped sophomore forward Thomas Robinson (meniscus surgery) would be available for the Oklahoma game on Feb. 26. He said freshman Josh Selby (stress reaction, right foot) is still “probably a week away from really being able to help us. He practiced full-speed today. He looked better. He’s a little ways away from giving us that punch we need him to give us.”

Chol decision Thursday

Angelo Chol, a 6-9, 210-pound forward from San Diego’s Hoover High, will choose either KU, Arizona or North Carolina in a 2:45 p.m. news conference at his high school.

Comments

Kirk 3 years, 1 month ago

"Us against the world" gives everyone else (opponents, media, refs) too much credit. Rather you have to take responsibility yourself for whatever happens, wins and losses and unfair calls. They come down to you. That's the Phog way, the Larry way, the Roy way, the Self way, the Danny way. The Kansas way. Otherwise you're just like, OU or MU or somebody.

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Jack Wilson 3 years, 1 month ago

Marcus had one bad moment .. the elbow in the Cal game. To be honest, when I played, I did much worse .. obviously not D-1 on TV, though. Most of us that have played the game have popped someone, or some have taken swing at somebody. We aren't thugs, I don't think. And Marcus is no thug. The T vs. Nebraska was baloney, and at worst, it was just verbal stuff. No big deal. The guy has an edge to him. I'll take that.

I will take a guy like Marcus on my team any day. He is a completely unselfish player, he truly attempts to make his teammates better, he always plays within himself, and he is an absolutely complete player. I'll say it again ... he is completely unselfish. This guy can put us on his back and take us to the title. I firmly believe that. Marcus has the complete game.

Markieff has had two intentional fouls in a short span. But Markieff is no thug. Thugs are consistent in their approach to life, and approach to competition. We could identify a few in the sports world. Like his brother, Kieff is an unselfish player. Like his brother, he has busted his ass in the offseason and made himself better. Like his brother, the guy bleeds crimson and blue. Like his brother, he will be a big success in the league. Like his brother, he too can put this team on his back.

I've thought about this for a bit .. yea, the stuff ticked me off. We don't need it. But it isn't the end of the world, and no one got injured. Heck, watching MLB or the NHL, what do we see? A push in the face, an elbow to the head? Again, it is not the end of the world.

What Kieff and Marcus need to do, simply, is do what they have always done. Put the team first. Because if they get T'd up, or booted from a game, it could cost us our season. Do this for the team, guys, like you always have.

RCJH!

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KULA 3 years, 1 month ago

These guys shouldn't get a bad rep. They've both had a somewhat dirty play or two, but lots of players do--that's basketball. The thing is, they've both been flagged when they did nothing wrong, just because the ref didn't see what happened. Just bad luck.

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jayhawkinnebr 3 years, 1 month ago

The way the Morris boys are playing, Pelini, NU football coach, would like for the Morris boys to come up here and play football for him, Pelini like dirty players on his team. Coach Self has let this team down bad. Bill should have put this team on notice about that type of actions. Ku doesn't have anyone to play the guard position, except for Reed. Budweiser Brady is a total dud and a complete mistake from the start. Bill screwed this team up royal. Not putting in the players that have talent, and not 6 pack Brady. Kansas ST. can play rings around KU at the present. KU bloggers, that think Brady is doing good, don't know a thing about basketball at all.

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KansasComet 3 years, 1 month ago

I sure hope Kansas can win the game Saturday. Maybe just maybe, everyone will enjoy the win, while remembering how bad losing feels and move on? Hopefully?

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saad007 3 years, 1 month ago

I really liked how Coach Self discussed the twins situation and the overall leadership during his weekly press conference video (part 2). Check it out guys: http://www2.kusports.com/videos/2011/...

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saad007 3 years, 1 month ago

I really liked how Coach Self discussed the twins situation and the overall leadership during his weekly press conference video (part 2). Check it out guys: http://www2.kusports.com/videos/2011/...

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cragarhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

The Morris twins are monsters, I love em!!! They have both made some mistakes(as do we all) and now they are paying for those mistakes(as do we all). Let's encourage them to take step 3:learn and apply! This is usually the hardest part of makin mistakes. You will always be Jayhawks boys, we believe in you, prove us right, we know you will!!! ROCK CHALK!!!!!!

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Jim Darnall 3 years, 1 month ago

I have been a KU fan most of my life and have stood by them even thru the rough times, but anyone watching the game knows his elbow was deffineately aimed at the head and not the chest. He tried but failed to cover it up.and then act surprised at the intentional foul. It was defineately blantent and intended for what it was. These brothers need to be shown that that kind of conduct is not wanted by true KU fans.I was very imbarassed by their play and angry at the same time. That kind of play is not what KU is about and it needs to be addressed. I would have felt better if he would have been kicked out of the game. That might get his attention and that sort of stuff would not happen again. To not make him understand the consequences for those kind of actions will not help him grow up with the right mind set.

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kufaninNM 3 years, 1 month ago

In my opinion, I think Bill should have let Markeiff set on the bench the rest of the game after the indentional foul. That game was an embarrassment to the rest of the players and fans. It was all about the rivelry between the two teams and they (KU) did'nt even come to play a game. They kept the refs busy, that's for sure! Hope they get their heads screwed on straight by March Madness time or they'll be going home soon, real soon!!

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Eric Bernauer 3 years, 1 month ago

I guess it is clear now how to beat Kansas. The opponent only needs to put one man on defense and wait for one of the three Hawks bearing down on him to invariably and inexplicably throw the ball to him. He then throws the ball back down the court to where his remaining 4 teammates out number the 2 remaining Hawks and dunk on them. It would be comical if I didn't bleed crimson and blue, but I can't remember any other team blowing so many 3 on 1 situations.

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kushaw 3 years, 1 month ago

Chol picks Zona! No surprise here!

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100 3 years, 1 month ago

So a few of you have hit on an interesting point. KSU was already playing well anyway, but the game was essentially a three point game early in the 1st half when Pullen ran into this surprise "elbow" of Markief.

Most of us have sided with Kief on this issue (realizing the NCAA calls for a foul here), indeed Kief didn't do this on purpose, & indeed it did look like Pullen jumped into the elbow & flopped. So we were outplayed for sure Monday night, but this was definitely a turning point in the game. Trobb is out. Kief sits the rest of the half. Marcus appears miffed, understandably in my opinion. Now Marcus is the tallest player we have left in the game. And in comes Withey to help him out.

And there we sit without Kief after the Pullen academy award flying flop into Kief's shoulder.... And there stands KSU with 6'9" McD All American Curtis Kelly, a kid who had just been caught for the third time this year violating a subtace abuse urine test at KSU, sped through the hearing by Frank so he wouldn't miss a game (even though he was forced to miss 3 games earlier in the season when he failed the 2nd drug test).

So there's the situation...

Now... All this said, regarding what got this odd situation for KU in the first half rolling & very well played into the final outcome of the game being so lopsided (the Pullen dive into Kief's shoulder) I am left wondering if the friendship between Marcus & Pullen can be put on the backburner from now on.

I mean lets face it... That was Marcus's brother... And it is FOE & Pullen used Marcus' brother as a puppet pretty bad right there. Pullen showed a lot of class in this game, but this was not part of the other 99% of his class that Bob Knight couldn't stop drooling over. This indeed, was a cheap underhanded play on a good friend's spirit, his twin, a play so dirty it is reserved only for European soccer. Or Duke's playbook.

Regarding this Pullen Academy Award, I at least hope they wait until mid April to chat on the phone. Pullen seems like a decent kid but he also flopped into one of our players to get three free throws early in the game. It was legal. Except our player wasn't going directly into him. Pullen leaned in for the contact & flopped so by the rulebook it should have been a no call.

Again KSU beat us fair & square.

I just hope Pullen can start going to his own practices & stay off the phone with Lawrence, Kansas for a couple months.

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Joe Baker 3 years, 1 month ago

Recruiting note- Chol picks today at 12:45 Pacific and 2:45 CST

Maybe good news for KU

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kushaw 3 years, 1 month ago

Maybe this was the game where people questioned Rodman's toughness? Maybe after this game was when he went out and got his first tattoo?

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William Blake 3 years, 1 month ago

The twins are what they are... and they have weaknesses, just like all ballers have. Just like all humans have.

In the twins' world (upbringing) it was necessary to hold your ground while on the playground. Most, if not all, of their actions have been reactions to things happening to them first. It is in their instinct to react in the way they learned early in life. You can even see by what they do, they are not trying to hurt anyone, just strike back (in defense). I'm not defending their actions, just trying to address them. The Marcus elbow in the Mizzou game was clearly his way to communicate to the defender to stop pushing him around. He made sure his elbow was seen by everyone. This goes back to the playground... where you had to stick up for yourself (usually in a symbolic way) or you would be devoured. So the key to trying to resolve their actions is to address it from their roots.

Now throw in the big cultural differences between Philly and the Midwest... many fans are calling the twins "thugs" and that is exactly what they are not. They never want to hurt another player... they are merely reacting through their childhood-developed instincts. In real life, these guys are great and have probably the softest hearts of any Jayhawk on the team!

Below is a link to a clip... Sixers vs Pistons. It is long, but watch it all, especially the end. This was a game that involved several real thugs.... Laimbeer, Barkley, Mahorn and Thomas...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxTccIZYPT8

Now... you see the difference in intent?

I'm not defending the actions of the twins... but the way everything is now, there is a communication gap on both sides and nothing can be resolved and this issue is blowing up into much more than it should. We have to be united on this and everyone needs to take a step backwards and try to open their minds a bit to the idea that cultural differences are at the heart of this problem.

RCJH!

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Michael Luby 3 years, 1 month ago

I had the pleasure of meeting Thomas Robinson last night walking around on Mass street. He looked like he was walking around without any pain or limp at all. I told him I hope he gets well soon and gets back into the game soon too. He was very gracious and kind. Great guy to have on the team.

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Scott Smetana 3 years, 1 month ago

I'm feeling much better 3 days removed from Valentine's day. I hope the team is too. In case any players/coaches actually read our dribble, I hope you know that we all are a bit nuts. We really don't know all that much about basketball, especially coaching. We truly support Coach Self and players at all times. Sorry for our negativity. There's no doubt we have awesome class and character on this team. Now let's all get our act together and burst Colorado's bubble!

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cajayfan 3 years, 1 month ago

I totally agree with Jason King's story. The twins will shape up for a couple of games and then one of them will pull a knucklehead technical again. They don't need more mommy, they need more Self!

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Larry Smith 3 years, 1 month ago

In other news... Congrats to Tyrel and Brady for selection to the 2011 Academic All-Big 12 Basketball team. Great Job by both!

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manunitedjayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

I was always taught to "headhunt" and "make good contact" when setting a screen on or away from the ball. That is not dirty, it is how you play good physical basketball. I don't care what type of reputation a player has, that call could have gone either way. Why people are even talking about it still amazes me. If a 5'11 guy is trying to split two opposing post men and trailing the guy he is guarding he himself has put himself in a bad position. It is also called "weight room." I am amazed at the lack of physicality that is allowed now in college basketball. Just because someone likes to get physical and talk a little trash on the floor doesn't make them "thugs" or "idiots." Being a fierce comepetitor brings out the worst in people, anyone ever hear about Michael Jordan punching Steve Kerr in the face during practice? The Morris twins are tough, hard nosed, no nonsense basketball players. Yeah they have mental lapses, but if you are talking about it losing games for us then look at it this way. A player turns the ball over on a fast break in which a layup should have been made, the opposing team goes down the floor cans a 3 pointer, thus they are able to get into a full court press, they get a steal and score 2 more points. That turnover has just as much of an effect of winning or losing as an intentional foul would. That is a 7 point swing. People just need to understand basketball, it is hard to if you never played at a high level. I think the majority of the Morris' twins critics have not played college sports at any level so they don't understand certain aspects of sports. I am with Coach Self and the rest of this team regardless of what happened against K-State. Let's just relax and watch how this team handles the rest of the season. Trust me college basketball is weak this year, no dominant teams at all. I think it is safe to say that Ohio State, Pitt, and Texas have seperated them from the pack but that means nothing at this point. I do think a #1 seed is still possible if we win out and win the Big 12 tournament. All is well with Coach Self leading the ship folks, we are going to be ok.

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HawkBBall 3 years, 1 month ago

Enough said about the foul by Kief.

I'm focused on the comment, “We didn’t have a group that night that rallied around it (loud Bramlage Coliseum crowd). We weren’t a team. We were individuals.” I think this identifies the weakness in this team. It rears its ugly head in adversity. Which player will lead? It is usually the point guard; but not on this team. Seniors, Brady and Tyrel, might need to step up and become vocal and motivational leaders. I think both have the respect of their 'mates.

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William Blake 3 years, 1 month ago

Who knows what will happen from here on out, but I will continue to thank this team for giving me great Jayhawk entertainment! They've had an excellent year so far, and I hope what is left will match what has already passed!

And a big shout out to the twins...

RCJH!

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BBKU 3 years, 1 month ago

I've been reading the posted comments for the past two days. You people are either crazy or completely clueless. First of all, on the play against K-State, Kief is supposed to set a pick for the guard who gets the pass on the wing. Markief is supposed to the seal his defender and look for an entry pass for the guard on the wing. The play was a foul but could have been the result of Kief setting a moving pick while moving to seal off his defender who was above or further away from the basket. Pullen, who is 5' 11" at best ,tries to split the two big men and gets hit or runs into Markief's hand.The play was more indicative of the horrible way that Markief and the team played--not of any attempt to hurt someone. It was a foul but is certainly not an intentional act It was called an intentional foul either because of his reputation ( bad refing) or the strict interpretaion of a bad rule.

In the meantime many of you so called fans on this site have attacked the twins character. One person even suggested that KU should not recruit players from the East Coast because they were of poor character. Instead, KU should do like Roy W did, and recruit from the West Coast. Really? CJ Giles was from the West Coast . JR Gidden was a midwest kid from Oklahoma. How did those two recruits turn out?

Character is a measure of how people handle themselves in a variety of situations and with a variety of people. I'd say that how they have adjusted-- coming from Philadephia-- to life in Kansas ; how they interact and support their teammates( ie Thomas Robinson) suggest that these are two young men of character. Anyone who believes that their character is measured by a few stupid acts on a basketball court has never played competative sports.

Relax and enjoy the games. You will miss them when they are gone.

I

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Dan Pawlowski 3 years, 1 month ago

Hmm, calling another persons character into question is really a more telling indication of their own character.

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JayDocMD 3 years, 1 month ago

And now JayDoc, in from left field:

"The Heinrich Maneuver" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIqn6x...

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Larry Smith 3 years, 1 month ago

The biggest problem here is the rule and the labeling of the foul. If there is contact above the shoulders, it must be called an intentional foul. Regardless if it was actually intentional in nature. Had these fouls just been personal fouls as they have been in the past, then no one would be raising a stink about it.

If you take out the bad (in the words of Coach Self) intentional foul label, then what do you have really have? One undeserved Technical from the Nebraska game, and the Flagrant in the Cal Game from Marcus. I can live with that.

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KU_FanSince75 3 years, 1 month ago

As icthawkfan316 said before on an extended post, I am too, getting tired of the twins elbows issues. Let's move on, shall we? When all the dust settles after Selection Sunday (March 13th), and the field of 68 has been announced, then, the Jayhawks can focus on the goal at hand---making it to the Final Four in Houston. Good luck, by the way K-State, on making the field of 68.

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REHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

If I am a ref, and a player is whining or overplaying emotion about consecutive calls, my attention will be focused on that player. That is my nature, and, I daresay, the naure of most officials, other than, perhaps, Ed Hightower...who is likely to take that player immediately aside and speak to him succinctly about his actions.

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REHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

OakvilleJHawk, we wish you a speedy recovery...and return to this lineup.

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EyeQue21519 3 years, 1 month ago

Fouls, Intentional fouls and flagrant fouls are a part of the game . other wise it wouldn't be in the rule book. Now im not saying this to make excuses or to condone the mental lapses of the twins but, when you have to bang and bump and battle with large men who have a personal mission to stop you from hanging a 20pt loss, plus two double doubles on your team and your skill set is comparable you probably go out of your way to "pull their foul" which is slang for provoke the hot head... the Morris' are a formidable duo when in tune with the game but get them off their game and you can have a chance to win. Comes with the territory but to vilify these kids criticize their character is extreme, and needs to be put in check. Yes the loose their cool but the fouls are not losing us games the free throws are. As well as the lack of defensive back bone in fact they need to be tougher harder and stronger and if hitting someone in the mouth UNINTENTIONALLY is a side affect of that then lets get ready to rumble!!!!!

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No_phog 3 years, 1 month ago

"a chip on their soldier" ???????????????????????????????????

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bdk980 3 years, 1 month ago

It's amazing how many people have been coming out of the woodwork in recent days. My first reaction after watching the KSU game was "three blind mice." The fans in Bramlage were clammoring for a foul call whenever contact was made, and it sure seemed like the officials were feeding into it towards the early part of the game. It didn't help us one bit that Pullen had a career day, 20 points in 8 mins... can anyone say DAM...but I for one feel that the officiating seriously disrupted our team getting into the flow of the game from the get go. If anything, the KSU game "exposed" a problem of composure, not talent. At the end of the day, the twins need to do a better job of keeping THEIR composure. If you recall the games in which they received techs/intentional (whathaveyou)...for the most part, Marc/Mark was not the aggressor in the situation...they were the reactor. Its amazing how the Twins are getting so much attention about this... if anyone deserves to be called a "thug" its that Guiterez kid from Cal and that punk from Nebraska. Also, while i don't want to deflect for a second from the twins, this is a great chance to see what they are made of and (hopefully) watch them grow a bit and mature... these officials, in incidences where the tech/int. call WAS warranted (as the one against KSU and Nebraska left me scratching my head), need to do a better job of keeping the game in check so the game doesn't even get to that point. I love the twins... I think they have come so far since their freshman years... but man, they'd be better off if they just kept their mouths shut. My philosophy in life has always been, let your actions speak for you. Anyone can talk to the talk...and I am fully confident that they can "walk the walk," but they have been thrusted into a major leadership role on the team this year and people are taking shots at them (trying to provoke them, calling them out, etc.) because time has shown that they can or (its' possible, likely even) that they have developed a reputation and their is now a bias against them. One of my favorite quotes... cream always rises to the top. I, personally, think these guys are cream (or very capable of being), they just need to show that they can get past the small stuff, focus on their game, and rise above it.... Soley my opinion, I've been a loyal KU Jayhawk since I was a tyke, but they need to drop this me against the world mentality. I think its great that they are developing a chip on their soldier, they aren't being pampered by the media (wake up the beast right before march) but they and the team needs to focus on every game, one at a time. On a side note.... wheres that link been to vote for Tyrel?

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Funhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Its an unusually warm winter day. The sun is out. As usual, our Hawks seldom lose. So glad the twins chose Lawrence as their home. What a great day to be a Jayhawk!

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kushaw 3 years, 1 month ago

Totally off subject: This is the part of the season where I enjoy looking up other schools from other conferences and see how their season is progressing. While I was looking up some other schools I ran across the San Francisco Dons.

After starting the season 6-10 they are currently 7-3 in second place in the West Coast Conference. 2 of their 3 losses in conference have come against St. Mary's, but it looks like Rex Walters has his kids buying into his system. Glad Walters is experiencing some success. One of my all-time favorite Jayhawks.

Another game we should all watch will be Feb 26th between BYU and San Diego State.

Also, Temple and Duke play next Wednesday for a really late non-conference game.

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Ron Franklin 3 years, 1 month ago

I wish I had more time to elaborate these days....

my, my, my how quickly people forget. this is not about one game. this isn't about two games, or 20 games. it isn't even about one season. for me, my judgement comes from nearly 3 years of observable behaviors exhibited by the twins.

I will not say they are not good basketball players. They are fantastic ballers & will play in the league.

I will question their character. And Self disguises the truth right to the face of the fanbase? Are you kidding me? Bill, true character is not shown when things are going well. True character is shown when life reveals it's worst moments & throws us in the mix.

And although, I am not a believer of ‘perception is reality’, a good portion of people believe this to be true. I’ve been following this board for 5 years now. I remember what people were saying about the Twins when they were freshmen. I remember the praise of their improvement last year and into this year.

But I also remember, since day one on campus the Twins have complained to the referees about EVERY single foul called on them. I have officiated at the collegiate level (baseball) and I can guarantee you umpires & referees get sick of this crap. Right or wrong, human judgement is involved.

So in my opinion people need to get off their high (and low) horses and accept our situation for what it is. We have two very solid basketball players who have proven for 3 years they cannot control their emotions. Even after several lashings from the coach to control the issue, the situation still arises.

I’m not a pessimist. I’m a realist. Blast away.

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Kye Clark 3 years, 1 month ago

I'm tired of this subject too. More so I'm tired of reading posts where anyone who is critical of the Twins' play is referred to as a "fan" (always in quotes), or an antler, a troll, someone who has never played basketball, etc. Are we not allowed to have opinions of our own and offer up criticism? No one seems to have a problem with the continued jabs at Xavier, but saying the Twins need to be more careful and some fans act like someone beat up their little brother. There are definitely a few isolated cases of posters taking it too far, and maybe some of the actual criticism could have been worded better, but I said this yesterday - being critical of someone's play does not equal disloyalty.

The other thing I really don't like is the first Marcus tweet yesterday and how so many posters thought it was a call to arms. Playing at an elite program like Kansas is like playing for the NY Yankees. If you don't want to see what is written about you, don't read the back pages of the NY papers, or in this case the comment section of this website. I had a problem with it earlier in the year when they had used it for motivation (I forget which game it was, but it was basically said that "everyone was expecting us to lose and we wanted to prove everyone wrong", or something to that effect). As an athlete you could make yourself crazy worrying about what every fan thinks of you. Do you really care what Joe Blow from Salina thinks? And does it affect your play? I hope not. And "us against the world"? You go out to 16,300 every game. EVERY game. And when you go on the road anywhere there are always far more KU fans than any other visiting team could expect. This is to say nothing of the overwhelming support fans from across the country showed TRob. We all need to blow off steam - fans and players alike - and I'm hoping that's what that was.

Like Fairgrove said above, I'm ready for the Colorado game. Love this team, and am curious as to how we'll respond. And hopefully soon the conversation will come back to actual basketball, not this 3 day old garbage and every poster coming up with their own test to gauge others' support of this team.

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Mike Joseph 3 years, 1 month ago

Just a thought. While watching Mich St. Vs Ohio St. the other night, late in the second half, Draymond Green of MSU got teed up for slamming the ball to the floor after a foul. Following a brief discussion with Izzo, Green went to the head official, Jim Burr (who might have been around since Naismith) and apologized for his indescetion. ESPN had the Burr mic'd up for the game so everyone heard Green's apology.

My point is this, I think instead of pouting every time they get called for a foul, the twins need to accept that they don't control the game, the officials do. And if they get called for any intentionals or flagrant fouls in the future, to man-up and aplogize to the head referee instead of crying and complaining on the bench. This is the only way to mend whatever negative reputation the twins might be labeled with.

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Scott Oswalt 3 years, 1 month ago

I LOVE THE MORRIS TWINS. even if they do throw them bows....

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No_phog 3 years, 1 month ago

Could you imagine a player screaming back at Roy Williams? See ya !

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Ed Brown 3 years, 1 month ago

I think the twins are very much aware the refs are watching them. The attitude/maturity part is knowing this and then not letting other players get into their heads and take them out of their usual intensity. They get upset at a call and it sometimes carries for several plays until they look as if they are seeking out retribution. They get yanked even and sit on the bench showing each other what they "really did" and why it shouldn't have been called. TRob had worked into the role of peacekeeper and pulling the team together when things were getting frustrated and this should be the natural role of the twins and Taylor and somewhat Reed and Morningstar. It should technically be the upper classmen but the true leader of the team has not emerged since Collins left, imho.

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BCRavenJHawkfan 3 years, 1 month ago

Hmmmm.

"Self said replays showed Markieff did deserve the whistle Monday, because of a new rule that automatically calls for an intentional foul when a player hits another above the shoulders."

"The screen aka elbow" was at the chest of the player initially involved, the spark plug Pullen jumped into the gap that only crickets could get through and because of his size the "screen" is at his head.

I imagine all this is working in the Twins favor for the NBA. You can't tell me there are not teams looking at these guys and thinking "Detroit Piston Badboy Type".

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KU_alum_2001 3 years, 1 month ago

AsadZ already posted this but in case anyone misses it above, it's worth a read, although you probably won't like (or will outright hate) what King has to say.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=AsElAwnZ6EYay0mVLhXNTbTevbYF?slug=jn-big12021711

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No_phog 3 years, 1 month ago

“I think the reason they got the foul is because it was a twin. That’s my personal opinion, but still it was the right call,” Self said

DUH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

one or the other, because he's a thug, or right call !

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GabrielMichael 3 years, 1 month ago

Keif and Cus, if you're reading this... prove the detractors wrong with your actions on the court. The Jayhawk Nation is behind you! Self-control is a virtue and must be worked on and conditioned just like your 3 pt. stroke! Just add it to your already broad repertoire of moves!

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squawkhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Self doesn't have a clue on how to handle the twins. This is demonstrated by his rediculous comment, "During games, at times when emotion gets involved, the emotion gets the best of them. It’s not really who they are, but it’s a maturity thing,”. What nonsense is this? If they do it, it is who they are. If they do it repeatedly, it is who they are. It doesn't matter if it is a maturity thing or not, if they do it then it is who they are and they deserve whatever negative reaction they get from it. Don't blame other teams for targeting them and don't blame the officials for targeting them. The have created their own situation and now they have to deal with it. Self bette get a handle on it quickly before it is too late.

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Joe Baker 3 years, 1 month ago

All the critics won't be happy untill the twins bend over and allow others to completely own them. I will support them 100% for being aggressive, even if it may hurt a little in a game. I support EJ to for his comments. I know it's not the best behavior. If you know anything about bball, if a team starts getting physical and you don't respond, you'll be manhandled the entire game.

Did you see the flagrant fouls that were called against KState. There was a lot of hacking and banging. The only time the refs called a foul against KState was when the twins went up strong and KState banged them and grabbed them in the act of shooting. I'm not blaming the refs for the loss at all, but I will question their calls all night when necessary. You're blind if you don't see the blatantly bias against the twins every game. If you're going to allow one team to be physical, then allow both teams to play through certain fouls.

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Joe Baker 3 years, 1 month ago

This is ridiculous. It's becoming like stirred crap. The more it's stirred, the more it stinks. It's not right and the twins have become the target of unnecessary scrutiny.

Let it go and let Self deal with it. The more that is made of it, the more the officials are going to target them. I thought it was beginning to settle before this mess. I've never seen something beat to death over 1-2 players in the entire NCAA. Other players do it, but they are not watched like the twins. I understand the twins have their moments and a lot of this is brought on themselves but this is a little too over the top.

This is bull$#1t and everyone knows it too.

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justinryman 3 years, 1 month ago

Just like at the begining of the season, a player can not believe what he reads about himself.

Now the Twins need to not believe what they are reading aout them, being thugs(even though they do throw elbos and opponents heads) and just play aggresive basketball.

Hopefully KU dosent have a run in with Ref. Higgins in another big game as he has taken it to a personall level with the Twins. He too needs to forget what happened in the last game or in the news and ref each game without bias.

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chaggs 3 years, 1 month ago

We need vertically-challenged guards that jump into defenders on 3 point attempts and run into elbows on picks! Case closed!

Not saying that the calls were bad or wrong...just use the rules to our advantage!!!

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SDSurferFan 3 years, 1 month ago

Voice of reason (Self).....I'd have to say this publication isn't helping the issue. ENOUGH ALREADY.

2 technicals over the course of the season and it's like they are serial killers.

Self is saying what he has to about the Ku tradition, but he knows the K st game was a bad call or a call due to 'reputation.'

Tomorrows headline- 'Morris Twins Elbows an Issue' ENOUGH ALREADY

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Michael Leiker 3 years, 1 month ago

Another Morris Twins Story. Who cares. This is such a non issue for me. That environment in Manhattan on Monday was almost as tough as 2008. 2 losses, big deal. Next game please.

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AirCapJay 3 years, 1 month ago

Self needs to take more blame when the team is having trouble. Mondays game started out very bad with about 3 failed alley-oop tries. You know that was probably Self who designed those plays (and if they would have been executed correctly would have pumped they team) but they got the crowd into the game big time. The team looked demoralized after those failed alley-oop tries and it went down hill from there. Self looked shocked to see that his team could do nothing, just like he did in the UNI loss last year. Self is a great coach but to use an analogy, I don't know that I would want him to be the captain of my plane when an engine is on fire and smoke is filling the cabin and the weather is bad. Self needs to learn how to coach when the plane is about to crash.

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jhwkfan162515 3 years, 1 month ago

If Self would change the defense to a 3-2 zone, it would help the bigs stay out of foul trouble and allow them to grab more rebounds. I still blame Self for sticking to the same old thing that wasn't working.

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brad53 3 years, 1 month ago

For one I do wish the Morris Twins would learn that they are a target for intentional/flagrant fouls, ever since the Cal game refs are watching them. They got what I would call the Jeff Graves problem, the refs look for a reason to call a foul or worse. This could eventually cost us a some point. Now I've watched a lot of games, and I think the NCAA should really go over the elbow rules with the refs, when you come down with a reboud, and swing around to clear space, that is Basketball. It's like the big hits in the NFL, some calls were ok but some should have never been called, because the NFL didn't give the refs a detailed explanation on what was considered a hard blow. NCAA really needs the explain what to look for when it comes to a basketball move and what is an intentional move. It should not just be a Judgement call.

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AsadZ 3 years, 1 month ago

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=AnNs_I2PAJeBmlJrUfuDjOrevbYF?slug=jn-big12021711

Check out this article by Jason King. Some very good points about selby, Twins, KU and Big 12.

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Robert Brock 3 years, 1 month ago

I'm not worried about 'tudes; I'm worried about the team's generally weak performance on defense this season. We've beaten a lot of creampuffs. Now comes the hard part.

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Bob Forer 3 years, 1 month ago

Historically, HCBS has done a remarkable job morphing a wide ranging variety of exceptionally talented athletes but wet-behind-the-ears, raw, and egocentric boys and young men into a well-tuned, integrated basketball machine. I trust he'll find a way to deal with the latest road bump. His people skills are perhaps as good, or better, than his basketball IQ. We be fine.

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bradynsdad 3 years, 1 month ago

Nice post jaybate. I really hope we get chol today, it's nice to keep the big men coming. If anyone has a chance today frank Martin will be on Jim romes radio show. I would love to know what he has to say, I am unable to listen to it.

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NJHAWK 3 years, 1 month ago

I think that Self is telling the league refs that the Twins are treated unfairly. Basically, he is telling them that he did not agree with the call and it was a bogus one by saying, "Every official tells me it’s a bad rule. But it is a rule. It should have been an offensive foul (on Markieff), no question."

I liked when he said that, “They are good kids. They are fun kids, and I enjoy coaching them. They drive me absolutely nuts, but their personality ... I love coaching ’em. You can ask any of our players. They are great teammates.” Basically, he is asking the twin haters to shut up. I hope that JW staff understood that.

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jaybate 3 years, 1 month ago

(Note: Re-posted from last night.)

Note to Every Board Rat:

Say a prayer for OakvilleJHawk. He's having stomach surgery. He posted so a few days back. I don't know why. He didn't say what the problem was. He hasn't posted anything the last two days, so I suspect he has finally gone under the knife and is hopefully recovering on a pot full of pain killers to spare him any hurt.

And as you say the prayer, please remember these words from "Brian's Song."

Gale Sayers: [accepting the George S. Halas award] I'd like to tell you about a guy I know, a friend of mine. His name is Brian Piccolo. And he has the heart of a giant, and that rare form of courage that allows him to kid himself and his opponent, cancer. He has a mental attitude that makes me proud to have a friend who spells out the world 'courage,' 24 hours a day, every day of his life. Now you honor me by giving me this award. But I say to you here now Brian Piccolo is the man who deserves the George S. Halas award. It is mine tonight... and Brian Piccolo's tomorrow. [Theme "Brian's Song" begins to play] Gale Sayers: I love Brian Piccolo. And I'd like all of you to love him too. And so tonight, when you hit your knees, please ask God to love him.

Please substitute OakvilleJHawk for Brian Piccolo above.

Oak, where ever you are, I'm on my knees and I'm askin'.

Rock Chalk! Rock Chalk!

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Clarence Haynes 3 years, 1 month ago

Can't wait until we whip the Buffs Butt and move on!

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TimmytheJayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

We have 2 Rasheed Wallaces on this team and I for one am damn happy about it. Tough, great shot, super rebounders, passionate as hell AND can hit the 3. What else could you ask for.

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yates33333 3 years, 1 month ago

Voygr1, you're right. I never thought I'd like to have Ed Hightower back as a ref, but he was the gold standard compared to what we have now.

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REHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

If I'm an opposing coach, I'm prodding my guys to provoke the twins. And if my 1-2-3 players are quick enough to outplay Jayhawk perimeter defenders, we are backcutting or racing to the paint mercilessly. Opposing game plans now: Get one or both of those Philly guys off the court as quickly as possible.

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keith horinek 3 years, 1 month ago

The twins are aggressive, period. Show me one game this year where their behavior cost us a game. The KSU game was a team loss, Markeiff did not cost us the game with his foul. I thought it was a bad call, Markeiff was screening and Pullen tried to run between them and got a forearm in the mouth, it should have been a no call. this is a good team and they will go far, we are making too much of all this "aggressiveness" by the twins, they are passionate and want to win.

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FairgroveJayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Looking forward to the next game and the rest of the season.

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voygr1 3 years, 1 month ago

Its time to call it like it was John Higgins was whistle happy from the start against the Hawks!!! That was clear after Coach Self complained. The foul against Kief was right but not intentional Kief turned and Pullen ducked down causing the blow to the neck. Watch the replay and it is obvious!!! There are some very poor officials in big 12 and he is one of the worst and most biased. Where is Ed Hightower when you need him. To blow off a coach after one of his players is slugged in the face is inexcusable!!! Higgins is arrogant and that has no place in college sports.

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jayhawkinATL 3 years, 1 month ago

Obviously, they (the twins) DON'T get it...they keep doing dumb$hit things that ultimately ends up hurting the entire team.

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RockCaCO3 3 years, 1 month ago

Didnt Keegan just write an article about this? We get the point. I'm sure Keif gets the point. Put it to rest, and lets move on.

Rock Chalk boys, March is around the corner.

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Bob Thompson 3 years, 1 month ago

You don't call every foul you see or the teams would be shooting free throws for 2 hours. When someone one keeps pushing the envelope, the ref will finally get tired of it and blow the whistle. When you have the twins out there, what the refs see is doubled so you see more fouls called.

This doesn’t explain the intentional fouls, and the foul at K-State most likely wouldn’t have been called at all if the guard hadn’t been cutting through between the bigs.

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akl6593 3 years, 1 month ago

Thank you Coach Self...I think it is shameful the way some "fans" on these boards have just attacked the twins after a bad game...calling them "thugs" I thought was wrong.

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NH_JHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

We're beating this issue like a dead horse now. Perhaps Gary noticed that Keegs got 388 comments on his story with a similar headline and now they have a bet going to see if Gary's can eclipse the 300 mark too? It's all about the clicks and it's working! I can't even help myself from commenting on this story.

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Janet Scott 3 years, 1 month ago

I'm fully supportive of Marcus and Markieff. This whole "bad boy" discussion and debate is utter non-sense, and the LJW's penchant to continue to proclaim this subject is annoying. What about all the good things Marcus and Markieff do for KU, the things they bring to the season to make KU a Top 5 team? Only a week ago the LJW was proclaiming the Twins saints, with stories of rich praise for both, from every angle. And now, this garbage.

The story, LJW, is the whole season, the games: wins and loses, and the games ahead. Forget Monday's game. Move on. The Jayhawks have but two loses thus far, after losing 3 starters from last year.

If anyone needs to grow up and reflect some maturity, it's the Lawrence Journal World sports staff.

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Hawkamania 3 years, 1 month ago

Like I said in the other Morris' story....

They have been getting grilled hardcore by the referees ever since they've stepped foot in Lawrence for some reason. Offensive and Defensive fouls, its like the referees pay more attention to them then anyone else out on the court to me. Alot of the calls don't get a replay so we can't actually see what is going on most of the time but alot of them are some ticky tack nonsense.

Who here referees basketball games at somewhat of a competitive level? Is this something that goes on with some officials? Do they know or hear about certain players before the game and keep an extra close eye on them when they are in? Do they see a player make a foul or two and then continue to look his way more often then not? Do they assume most of the time that there was a foul occurring when there more n' likely wasn't one when they truly don't get a good look at said foul?

It really baffles my mind though. The Morris twins aren't exactly angels but they sure in the hell ain't the Hell's Angels either ya know.

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oldalum 3 years, 1 month ago

I'm not sure he took him out as punishment. Maybe it was a cooling down period, or to give the refs a chance to forget about watching his every move. They tend to miss all the times he gets blasted under our basket, and only watch what he does. According to Bob and Piper on the radio, shortly after that Tyrel got a fist in the face and the refs refused Self's request for a video review on that.

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hawkfan4life 3 years, 1 month ago

So Self acknowledges that Markeiff was the victim of a new and admittedly poor rule, and yet he punished him by sitting him the rest of the half. That was a coaching mistake. I'm sure he wanted to discipline Kieff for picking up that foul, but it wasn't really Kieff's fault. If that's the rule then the refs have to call it like they did, but our reaction to the call coaching wise was poor. By the time Kieff saw the floor again there is no wonder that he was ice cold and couldn't do much.

I am hopeful that benching Kieff was a long-term coaching move that will pay its benefits down the line because I personally think that was among the major factors that contributed to our losing the game. Absolutely no energy from our guys after Kieff goes out on that call, and it cost us the game. I think that we lost as a team on Monday, players and coaches alike. There can be no blame here because everyone was a poor participant.

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LAJayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

I didn't say this the other day, but...

That call on Markieff was completely bogus. Was it a moving screen? Sure. Blow the whistle on that (although the offensive foul/moving screen has really become a ludicrously hit and miss foul call in the college game lately). But to rule it intentional??? When he was clearly just putting his arm into his defenders chest while trying to make a screen.... that was just a terrible, terrible call.

"I think it was the right call based on a bad rule." --Bill Self

Coach Self is probably correct, but, sweet Jesus, if that's the case this is a really, really, REALLY a bad freakin rule. I mean, just god-freakin-awful. Monkey-feces-tossing bad. There was nothing intentional there, more than any other moving screen. It's a really horrible rule that needs to be removed immediately in the off season.

On another note, I, once again, have to point out how amazing Coach Self is. I have read countless posts the last few days, and none have summed up so succinctly what was going on in Monday's game better than Coach. “We didn’t have a group that night that rallied around it (loud Bramlage Coliseum crowd). We weren’t a team. We were individuals.” Perfect summation.

Although, I do have one point to make on his words:

"How many great pitchers go out and get shelled in three innings, and you think they’re never going to win another game? Until they take the mound again?”

This is an analogy, and not a bad one. I certainly understand why he is using it (referring to the nature of sports in general). However, there is a big difference here, and it comes down to exactly what he was seeing as a major problem Monday night. When a pitcher gets shelled, he did so (generally) individually. When he comes back out and performs beautifully, it is also, more or less, individually. I have no doubt every single member of our basketball team, individually, could come back and explode. HOWEVER, the point is, can they do it as a team?

The answer to that question will decide whether they are truly of nation championship caliber. If they react as a team, and do the things they need to do as a team, then that analogy works. If not, well, then it's not the right analogy.

This is a team game.

It's about how this team comes together.

And I have no doubt they will.

Rock Chalk.

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Ty Mar 3 years, 1 month ago

Shame on those that named called the twins. True Jayhawks will stand by our own no matter what. We may question strategy, tactics, play making, even coaching..but the name calling i've seen the past few days is disgusting.

Anyways-keep your head up and ROCK CHALK!

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Nicholas Cederlind 3 years, 1 month ago

I'm sorry but none of this backlash against the twins makes any sense. In case everyone forgot, the twins are BIGS. Any big will tell you how rough and tumble your game has to be and how the line between aggressive excellence and undisciplined fouling is razor thin. Intentional elbows are one thing but after an unintentional high screen by Kief, the twins' entire reputations are being called into question?? This is ludicrous. What an inane angle to this article. The twins can be more disciplined, yes, but the level of criticism they are recieving is disgusting!!

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SaltLakeHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

"We got our butts whipped there in ’08 (and still won national title)."

Does anybody else get annoyed with parenthetical statements being inserted into direct quotes? If he didn't say "and still won national title" then why add it in??? I'm pretty certain he didn't say it. This isn't a particularly offensive example, but it's something I see so often that I finally had to comment. It gives the journalist WAY too much freedom to distort what people actually say. I won't pretend to be an expert, but isn't this journalism 101?

The other day, I passed Gary Bedore in the street, and he said "Hello (I'm going to dump anthrax in your children's box of Lucky Charms, but only after waterboarding a few kittens. I also believe Justin Bieber to be an incredible talent and prolific songwriter)."

See, I can do it too.

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KEITHMILES05 3 years, 1 month ago

Again, Mother Morris needs to have a stern talk with her sons. What they have is learned behavior and they need un-learn it very quickly or else is going to cost the team victories. That is the bottom line.

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kusportsdotcom 3 years, 1 month ago

great article. bill's the man. i wouldn't want anyone else being in charge of this team.

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