Wednesday, December 14, 2011

Bill Self: Tyshawn Taylor criticisms unfair

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor signals to the bench after hitting a three-pointer against South Florida during the second half on Saturday, Dec. 3, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor signals to the bench after hitting a three-pointer against South Florida during the second half on Saturday, Dec. 3, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Kansas coach Bill Self believes guard Tyshawn Taylor is taking more criticism this season than is warranted.

“I can do that probably more so than anybody, because he’s the point guard and he’s the quarterback and he’s more responsible than anything,” Self said during his Hawk Talk radio show on Monday. “But the bottom line is, instead of seeing sometimes what he doesn’t do, I think we should look at what he does do. Because if you look at us, we don’t beat Long Beach State if he doesn’t play. And we certainly don’t beat Ohio State if he doesn’t play.”

Playing with a torn meniscus in his right knee, Taylor scored 12 points with four assists and five turnovers in 34 minutes against LBSU on Dec. 6.

Against Ohio State, Taylor contributed nine points to go with a career-high 13 assists in 35 minutes. He also had seven turnovers.

“He can do so many things to get in the paint to force help to get us easy baskets that when he doesn’t make some plays, we look at the negatives as opposed to all the positive things that he does,” Self said. “He’s got to tighten his game up. We’ve talked about it. We’re going to watch a lot more tape. He’s got a chance to watch a lot of tape right now and (we can) try to help him with that.

“But gosh, does he have a lot of talent. I mean, that is one talented kid that’s a phenomenal athlete.”

Self has his own theories about why Taylor is criticized more than others. For one, the guard has been at Kansas a long time. He’s also had some off-the-court incidents in the past.

Taylor had surgery to repair the torn meniscus Sunday. The senior could miss up to three weeks depending on his recovery time, though Self said it’s possible Taylor could be back as soon as KU’s game Monday against Davidson.

“Nobody anywhere can question how much it means to him to be out there and how much he wants to play and wants to win,” Self said, “because there’s a lot of people that would say, ‘No, no, no, go ahead and do this (surgery),’ and, ‘I don’t want to risk anything.’ Not that he was risking anything from a medical deal, but he put it in his rear-view mirror and never looked at it again.”

Self said Taylor didn’t use his injury as an excuse.

“That’s what toughness is — if you know something’s going on, and you’re able to put it in your rear-view mirror and not even think about it,” Self said. “He did that, and of course, because of that, we had a pretty good week.”

Taylor’s effort Saturday came against one of the top point guards in the country.

Ohio State sophomore Aaron Craft posted 11 points, six assists, five rebounds and two steals to go with three turnovers in his team’s 78-67 loss to Kansas.

“Here’s what I think, and I could be wrong,” Self said. “I think that Craft is the best defensive guard that we’ll see all year. I think he’s the best true point guard we’ll see all year. I think he’s as tough as any guard we’ll see all year. I think he’s as smart as any guard that we’ll see all year. And I think Tyshawn Taylor is just as good.

“So that’s how I feel about Craft, that he’s terrific, but I think Tyshawn is too. He’s just got to make some better decisions.”

Robinson wins award

Kansas forward Thomas Robinson was selected as the Oscar Robertson national player of the week by the U.S. Basketball Writers Association.

As the Big 12 conference player of the week, Robinson was nominated for the weekly award, which is chosen by a representative of the USBWA board of directors. The 6-foot-10 Robinson is the first recipient of the award this season.

Robinson, a junior from Washington, D.C., averaged 23.5 points and nine rebounds in victories last week over Long Beach State and Ohio State.

Holiday Clinic

The 2011 KU men’s basketball Holiday Clinic will be from 1-3:30 p.m. on Tuesday, Dec. 27, at Allen Fieldhouse for boys and girls in second through sixth grades.

The annual clinic is $85 and will include instruction, a camp T-shirt, a Junior Jayhawk Basketball, a 2011-12 KU basketball team picture and one GA ticket to KU’s Dec. 29 home game against Howard. There also will be an autograph session afterward.

For more information or to register for the camp, go to


Ferd Magellan 9 years, 10 months ago

Many of our fans turned on Collins and Reesing their senior seasons, and those two are KU legends. I can't say I'm surprised that a huge number of our fans would throw Taylor under the bus after we've overachieved against a brutal non-conf schedule with no returning starters around him.

jhox 9 years, 10 months ago

The bottom line is we're better with him than without him in the line up. It's just that we expect more of upper classmen than to see them make the same silly turnovers game in, game out. Also, he's held to a higher standard because he is such a great athlete. Guys who can get into the lane at will don't come along every day, so it is frustrating to see him throw up out of control shots when he may have an open teammate he could have dished it off to.

With Tyshawn we have to take the good with the bad, but it would sure be nice to see him cut out some of the silly mistakes the second half of the season, and see him make a strong run toward the NBA draft.

He's a 4 year Jayhawk, and we'll always love him for that. We just want to see him play to his potential.

Damian Glaze 9 years, 10 months ago

I think the other thing that makes him a lightening rod for criticism is his perceived nonchalant approach to the game. We have had guards the last 20+ years that are always in the defensive ready position after a miss as well as when we score. We have had guards the last 20 years that looked for every opportunity to push it up the floor (just to keep the defense honest) and knew how to bring it back out top to avoid the stupid turnover. Even up to where we are now in this season, I can't remember in any season a point guard that gave up so many turnovers at the top of the key just starting the offense.

There is no doubt Tyshawn has tremendous talent and confidence. I know for me I just wish he had more intensity in every aspect of the game; more of a chip on his shoulder when it comes to opponents; and more sense of urgency from the opening tip-off rather than only at the late stages of the game. I wish we could do a cross pollination of Tyshawn and T-Rob. Give T-Rob just a hint of Tyshawn to relax just a very little bit (so there isn't as much posing and jawing with opponents after dunks); and give Tyshawn a full helping of T-Rob to get him to play with that focus, intensity and determination.

jhox 9 years, 10 months ago

The bottom line is we're better with him than without him in the line up. It's just that we expect more of upper classmen than to see them make the same silly turnovers game in, game out. Also, he's held to a higher standard because he is such a great athlete. Guys who can get into the lane at will don't come along every day, so it is frustrating to see him throw up out of control shots when he may have an open teammate he could have dished it off to.

With Tyshawn we have to take the good with the bad, but it would sure be nice to see him cut out some of the silly mistakes the second half of the season, and see him make a strong run toward the NBA draft.

He's a 4 year Jayhawk, and we'll always love him for that. We just want to see him play to his potential.

lv_jhwk 9 years, 10 months ago

And, similar to Taylor, he was hurt during that last campaign. Didn't stop the critics from piling on then either.

Austin Bergstrom 9 years, 10 months ago

collins not a ku legend? the primary point guard in the national championship game? just because he didn't start, he had just a big a role as any other player on that team. He's one of the most winningest player KU history, and put the team on his back multiple times to lead us to two more big XII titles, but yeah he was nothing

EverRisingHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

+1. And +1 to all the Sherron supporters to follow. The guy who avoided a foul to facilitate Mario's three, who - during countless other plays that game and throughout the remainder of his years as a Hawk - put us in a position to win. How often were we #1 in the nation with Sherron at the helm? Not sure what whack measuring stick you're using if you choose to banish Sherron to the margins of KU bball history. Plain stupid.

86finalfour 9 years, 10 months ago

are we talking about the same Collins who played the point guard position down the stretch in the title game against Memphis. The Sherron who made an unbelievable steal and three point play which set up the chalmers miracle. And the guy who, next to chalmers, made the greatest assist in KU history.

Also, I love Reesing and loved following that team but beating Virg. Tech in the lesser BCS orange bowl isn't the same level as winning the national championship game. And we don't win without Sherron period. That should be enough legend stuff regardless of his years after '08.

John Randall 9 years, 10 months ago

4'7''08: Agree we don't win if you pull Sherron off the court and play 4 against 5. With another player, we might have played worse, just as good, or better as a team – I'm not sure, and neither are you.

12/10/'11: Do you think that the players filling in for Sullinger last Saturday made no contribution at all, or the other regulars had fewer chances to contribute?

Redlandsjhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

The player with the most wins in Kansas history? The catalyst in the championship game? The guy that comes into the game, steals the inbounds pass, drains a three and instantly puts us back into the game? That guy not a legend? Wow... just wow.

JayHawkFanToo 9 years, 10 months ago

Incorrect. The player with the most wins at KU is Tyrel Reed.

Kristen Downing 9 years, 10 months ago

Are you from Redlands, CA? I am. Just wondering if there is another KU fan in this small town...

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 10 months ago

Sherron made the single most difficult play in the 2008 Championship when he stole the inbound pass then made a 3 when the ball was passed back to him..

Not as memorable as Mario's shot (which he gets the assist) but every bit as important. He may not have started as a Sophomore but he averaged 24 minutes per game.

Why the need to blast Sherron when the story is about Tyshawn? Compare stats and they are pretty close in all categories but Collins wins in assists, A/T ratio, MPG (including Sr. year), PPG, Rebs, FT%, Tyshawn has a better 3 pt% and fg%. All were surprisingly close.

"a selfish player on the court with a questionable reputation." Nice quote if you like cheap shots.

Reesing WAS a class act start to finish..and i think we might agree that Mangino should have been treated a hell of a lot better...

I just don't get why the need to slam a 4 yr player who I believe gave his best for KU.

kranny 9 years, 10 months ago

Hate to break to ya buddy but Collins is a legend and will have his jersey hung in the Phog. Figures don't lie: 130(second all-time) wins 19 loses 5th in KU career scoring history 4 big 12 championships 1 national championship 1 Swt 16 1 Elite 8 second-team all-america as a junior first team all-american as a senior All big 12 1st team junior/senior year Had the biggest steal and 2nd biggest shot in KU history in 08 championship. Had the biggest shot in win against KState in history in 2010 For all the Sherron haters check your history this may ease you up on Collins: Brings a smile to my face every time....

Michael Luby 9 years, 10 months ago

Of course there have been 3 better PGs at KU. I can name 3 right now. Jo Jo White, Jacque Vaughn and Mario Chalmers/ Russell Robinson- both of which were just as good if not better than Sherron.

lama 9 years, 10 months ago

How many final four games did Jacque win? This is ridiculous -- Collins was not perfect, but he was one of the best guards in school history.

Dan Cook 9 years, 10 months ago

Reesing a class act? A great player for us, yes. A class act? No. You obviously didn't know him off the field.

Glen Miller 9 years, 10 months ago

Couldn't agree more, great assessment of the situation. By the way......Did you sleep at a Holiday Inn Express?? lol

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

The difference is a lot of fans have been critical of Taylor since his Sophomore year. It's not new. It's not that fans are turning on him; they've been skeptical for awhile now.

And for the record, most of the fans that are critical are not "throwing him under the bus." Criticism is warranted. It doesn't mean that we don't appreciate his talents, but it's not out-of-line to want to maybe see EJ running the point, or Tharpe to be getting more minutes, or to hope against all evidence in the past that Tyshawn can change his turnover-prone ways after 3+ seasons.

Aside from a few fringe "fans", no one is saying kick him off the team or anything. It's just criticism. Debate. It's fine.

baldwinjhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

That's BS... My only problem with Tyshawn is that he makes way toooo many bonehead mistakes. I know we need for him to play fast, but slow down a millisecond and take a look around before you drive into 3 defenders without any help.

dylans 9 years, 10 months ago

It's gonna stink next season without Tyshawn. Mark my words. I think Tharpe can be the guy, but it will take a sharp learning curve for KU to not lose 7+ games next season. I know gasp 7 losses is better than most schools best seasons, but still a setback. So enjoy the Tyshawn Turnover Experience this season because before you know it it will be over. I'm gonna enjoy the good and try not to stress too much over the bad.

dgaskill 9 years, 10 months ago

I think Ty's lateral movement was effected .... In the LBSU game He wasn't moving in the back court ,side to side very well and it was making for some bad passing. When he was going straight He could penetrate and lay the ball in. He Looked a bit better in the O Sate game , but still not 100% Other people are stepping up and We may have another team that scores from anywhere and anyone.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 10 months ago

I'm not sure individual fans should decide who is or who isn't a KU legend even though I agree both Collins and Reesing are or will be. Time and perspective will decide.

jayhawkaloogie 9 years, 10 months ago

No one doubts Taylor's talent. He just looks dumb as a rock on the court sometimes. Observation: KU PGs in the self era make a lot of the same irritating mistakes from freshman to senior year. Big men, however, improve by leaps and bounds from one year to the next (TRob, DJackson, DArthur...). Self was a PG. Manning was a big. Coincidence? Manning for big 12 coach of the year

Marcia Parsons 9 years, 10 months ago

I think it's pretty hard to compare the two positions. Bigs don't have to master as many things as a point guard does.

John Boyle 9 years, 10 months ago

It is not a shallow analysis. True oldalum didn't go into details but everyone knows that guards have more opportunities for turnovers and have a lot more responsibilities than post players. For the most part they hang around the basket and make post moves to score and they crash the boards for rebounds but they are not asked to break the press and handle the ball the majority of the time. I think TRob is turning the ball over at too high of a rate and he isn't getting all the hate on these post. Taylor and Robinson both need to tighten up their games if KU wants to reach the kind of success the fans have come to expect. I think they will. Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!!

justanotherfan 9 years, 10 months ago

You also have to consider that although Bill Self was a guard, he wasn't the type of slashing guard that Sherron was, or that Tyshawn is, or Mario or any of those guys. He was much more of a set offense type of PG. Bill Self wasn't a guy that could just get into the lane whenever he wanted. Besides, Self is a great coach, we know that. Manning works specifically with the bigs. Self is responsible for the entire team. Manning deserves credit definitely, but don't undercut what Self does.

bobrob76 9 years, 10 months ago

Amen. Way too much hate and name calling. The kids, and recruits, read this crap.

Matt1958 9 years, 10 months ago

Makes ill advised plays. OK. Seems to struggle at times running the offense. OK. Dumb as a rock? I'd tell you where to go but,, I will. Go get your Antlers garb on, say your prayers to Haith, and never wear red or blue again.

bamahawk1 9 years, 10 months ago

Jayhawkaloogie - I have noticed exact same. Others are ignorant not to notice the monumental gap in the development between our bigs and our guards.

dylans 9 years, 10 months ago

RussRob improved every season. Mario Chalmers improved every season. Sherron Collins was so out of control his freshman year; I can't count how many players flew into the stands when he drove to the hoop.

EverRisingHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Absolutely - I agree with you. Selective memory seems to set in when people attempt to make sweeping statements like the one above.

JamesA 9 years, 10 months ago

After Chalmer's freshman year he hardly played the point. The Robinson-Collins rotation went into effect.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 10 months ago

The fact that Robinson came back after his freshman season, says a lot about his character.. He really 'manned up'.

But we have had several true point guards..

Mario was the #2 ranked PG in 2005 by rivals Tyrell was the #15 in 2007 Tyshawn #11 out of St. Anthonys. EJ #4 PG Selby was the #1 ranked PG in the country.. And Tharpe comes in at #19.

I admit that I'm not a coach and I'm basing this on info produced by one of the main scouting sources but if any of these players were not at least initially true PGs out of HS, I would like to know who and why.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 10 months ago

You are right trojanhawk and I considered that. Some might fit the combo guard definition, but to say we haven't had a true PG isn't true.

EverRisingHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

The story all season has been a lack of depth - namely depth of the offensive variety. That leaves TRob and Tyshawn with two massive roles - one that Taylor never had to envisage in a previous season. On multiple occasions, Self has instructed Tyshawn to do what he can to slash and get to the basket - frankly, he's the only guard on our team capable of shouldering such a load when our half court offense simply isn't producing. However, that style of play - drive to score or drive to dish - is conducive to TO's. I'm not saying that some of his mistakes haven't been irritating for enthusiastic couch analysts, but those very same sofa coaches seem to ignore Self when he says that without Taylor, we simply don't win. A lion's share of the TT criticism that I have read on this site and elsewhere amounts to little more than blatantly negative prattle with little to no constructive value at all. One individual posted a mock thank you note from Coach K, congratulating TT for handing them the win. That is absurd. Those who say they're excited for TT to be out of a Hawks uniform have not been watching the season unfold (at least not very closely). I support you Tyshawn.

John Boyle 9 years, 10 months ago

I agree with you to an extent. We can live with the drive and dish turnovers. Its the careless stupid ones that drive most fans crazy. He could cut his turnovers down significantly if he just valued every possession more. He has to play for us to be successful this year so we will take the good with the bad. By the way not all comments on this site are by "enthusiastic couch analysts". Some are made by successful high school coaches who know a little bit about the game.

Redlandsjhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

That was a funny play, reminded me of "might as well throw it to me" line in Game On.

EverRisingHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Haha, I don't doubt that at all - I know there are some basketball minds out there. I was just referring to those who pepper their derisive, redundant remarks with little to no substance - those whose objective is to tear down, rather than offer anything in the way of building up.

EverRisingHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Amen. I remember Sherron having a few brow-raising games, but those didn't detract from all that he achieved for our team.

John Randall 9 years, 10 months ago

""" A lion's share of the TT criticism that I have read on this site and elsewhere amounts to little more than blatantly negative prattle with little to no constructive value at all."""

Some of the criticism is blown way out of proportion ... not all criticism is bad. I even had a coach criticize my play once! It helped my play.

Some of the criticism is mean spirited and intended to dishearten the player ... THAT is bad on several levels.
• if the player listens, they quit improving and just try not to be "bad". • if the player quits listening, their improvement slows down to a crawl. • if the critics are exercising 'the power of the internet' in narcissistic ways, they are not team fans and we need to learn to do without them. • criticism can be done in ways that do not add to the burden, or it can be done otherwise – too few of us know or heed the difference.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 10 months ago

Kinda like the criticism thrown at Sherron...

EverRisingHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I agree. A coach's JOB is to be critical of his players. To push them, isolate their mistakes, and facilitate their improvement. However, you can't really compare drubbing by fans to the kind of criticism that we would EXPECT Self to level at his players. Frankly, we're not in a position to influence Tyshawn's game in any way.

jayhawkaloogie 9 years, 10 months ago

Chalmers was the exception. He was smart and knew how to pass like a true point. Of course, he's a coach's son. Good point about self's preference for combo guards, but any guard in any system has to know how to distribute, take care of the ball, manage the clock, and choose high percentage shots. Taylor has his moments, but mostly relies on streetball moves. He shows a lack of discipline, which I think is a reflection of coaching. Self defends him because he hasn't taught otherwise. Every turnover is potentially a 6 point swing in scoring. That has hurt us and will continue to be a thorn in our side. Disclaimer for all the hater haters: I'm not saying self and taylor suck. I'm saying changes need to be made to maintain the standard of excellence we're used to. Neither self nor Taylor are above criticism and improvement. Self keeps talking about "tightening" things up. I can't wait to see evidence of it

86finalfour 9 years, 10 months ago

Chalmers didn't play point. Russel Robinson did.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 10 months ago

Chalmers was a PG out of HS, RussellRob was a SG.

Marcia Parsons 9 years, 10 months ago

Those "streetball moves" are what give Tyshawn his flash. I doubt that Self is trying to drum that out of him. That's what he recruited. I think he would just like to see it more under control and that's what he is referring to when he talks about tightening things up. There's a thin line between controlling it and losing it altogether. I'm not sure he's ever going to be able to do it. He's had three years and I see only small improvement. But considering all that, I still believe Tyshawn brings more to the team than he costs it.

Jeremy Wilhelm 9 years, 10 months ago

Your take on Chalmers is a little bit of revisionist history - Chalmers made risky, dumb, one-handed passes a lot but he made up for it by doing things like hitting a dagger in the NC. If Chalmers had been handling the ball as much as TT, he'd likely have been just as maddening and just as clutch when it counted most.

KU_Alumn_2000 9 years, 10 months ago

Reed, Morningstar, Rush, Robinson, and Chalmers were ALL better guards by the time they left Kansas than what they were before.

The theory of guards not progressing Or improving under Self is rediculous.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 10 months ago

How about Selby, Henry, Woolridge, Appleton? Basically I agree w/you but if you're going to say ALL then ALL should be included.

Alohahawk 9 years, 10 months ago

We, as Jayhawk fans, have been spoiled by some terrific players over the years. We set the bar high and expect the current crop to equal or exceed those from before. Unfortunately, not every player is going to perform at that level. We need to remember that no one, not even those with their numbers hanging in the rafters, were perfect. (Even the teams Danny played on lost games, and he probably remembers a few mistakes he made during his 4 years.)

I'm sure TT realizes he isn't without his faults. Maybe, as HCBS suggests, it's time to stop pointing fingers at his every flaw and give more applause to the positive aspects of Taylor's performances on the court. Yes, he's had more turnovers than we like to see, and has made some bad decisions. But considering KU's W/L record while he has been here, should we truly complain? The Jayhawks have lost two games this season, and with this year's difficult schedule, many KU fans probably doubted they would fair as well. (Some say KU should have won all three games in Maui. But, given the missed traveling calls against Duke, and their lucky shots at the end of the game, I don't blame TT for the lose. Other KU players were on the court, and were just as much at fault.)

Starting off this year, most considered that KU would have an off season because of all the departures from last season's 35 win team (on which, of course, Taylor was KU's lead point guard.) KU has played a much tougher schedule this season, with a less talented team, but they have faired well enough to be ranked #12. Some credit must be given to TT for that accomplishment. What would KU's record have been if Taylor hadn't played either season? Hard to say. We had high expectations for Selby, but he didn't perform to our expectations either. Had he stayed, perhaps he would have proven his worth. But he didn't, so the possibilities are a mote point.

The glass is more than half full, thanks to Taylor. Give credit to his accomplishments, and let us believe in HCBS's trust in TT. After all, in the final wash, it's Self's judgement that counts.

Get well soon, Tyshawn. Think positive. I'll look forward to your return to the court.

John Randall 9 years, 10 months ago

Spell checking is not quite a substitute for a dictionary . . .

The noun "fare" can be used as a verb. The adjective "fair" has no such use.

The noun "mote" doesn't work as an adjective. You may think this is a moot point, but I'll just mute that opinion.

Alohahawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Sorry about the mistakes. Believe it or not, I do appreciate that you thought it worth your time to point out my errors. Unfortunately, when I rush to present my thoughts, I often type faster than my brain functions. Plus, my two finger hunt and peck typing leaves a lot to be desired. I'm usually more concerned with correct sentence structure, (which, I admit is far from perfect), than I do about correct spelling. But, as a regular poster, I want the fans reading my post to understand what I'm trying to say.

Keep grading my papers, Professor. Next time my excuse will be , "My dog ate the rough draft." : - )

Robert Brock 9 years, 10 months ago

"He's just got to make some better decisions."

Taylor is a fourth-year starter. How long does it take to make better decisions?

Kevin Kelly 9 years, 10 months ago

Bingo. He has the same tallent and skill as he had 3 years ago. Its hard not to suspect he's coasting.

fansincewilt 9 years, 10 months ago

Bill Self is honest but he will defend his players. These guys could not possibly ask for a better person to mentor them in the game of basketball. It's obvious that Self is not only thinking of Taylor as a player but as a person as well. That is an ingredient that makes him one of if not the top coach/es in the nation. However, those of us who have been in support of Taylor know to speak and then duck for you are going to get shot down. I had that happen again to me yesterday.

hawkfan30 9 years, 10 months ago

Good thing you're not Self and I hope not a coach anywhere. Part of coaching is helping kids mature, grow and learn from their mistakes. That means sticking with them through the good and bad.

drymartinie 9 years, 10 months ago

This isnt really related, but has anyone else noticed in the LJW this year that nearly EVERY time they mention Thomas Robinson they have to mention his height (which is overgenerously listed as 6-10). I see it over and over. They dont do that with any other player. Even in the quote above, and it has no bearing on the article. Are they trying to aid his draft status or something?

DanR 9 years, 10 months ago

Yeah, I'd be surprised if Robinson is even 6-8. Sullinger looked a good 3 or 4 inches taller when they were standing next to each other Saturday, and he's listed at 6-9. (I actually looked up his stats thinking Sullinger might have been a 7 footer the way he towered over TRob.)

Ty Mar 9 years, 10 months ago

He's about 6-5 srs. :) hehe

Want to see a true 6-10 pf with similar explosiveness? See blake griffin...except blake has like 10 more inches on his vertical :)

tical523 9 years, 10 months ago

Live by the sword, die by the sword. Taylor brings so much and frustrates even more sometimes, let's hope he is ultra sharp and focused in march because we definitely need him more than any other to win.

Joel Hood 9 years, 10 months ago

Self is playing master psychologist with Taylor's confidence. Of course TT is turning the ball over way too much and Self knows that criticism has hit the point of diminishing returns - more will only hurt his play.

Benjamin Piehler 9 years, 10 months ago

I agree. TT wants to be a team leader badly, and all the criticism over his performance has undermined his confidence. At the OSU game, the crowd was audibly moaning almost every time TT touched the ball (granted, he did give us some reasons to groan)... I can only imagine the affect of 16,000 plus people audibly voicing their lack of confidence in you would have on self-esteem/confidence...

Maybe TT hasnt made all the improvements I hoped he would by senior year, but he's stuck around and appears to be trying hard... its probably time to ease off him a bit.

ccarp 9 years, 10 months ago

I understand it is a game, so need to be harsh on Tyshawn. But I do believe the thing we all want to see is less turnovers. It's one thing to loose possession due to strong defense or within the offense, but another when it appears it is due to careless ball handling. We love ya Tyshawn. We need you. We want you to succeed. Please take better care of the ball.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 10 months ago

I know he does a lot of great things. And the team is better with him on the court.


I am so tired of seeing the careless turnovers. Regardless of injury or how good somebody says he is or how tough his. Whatever.

He is a college senior point guard and he regularly dribbles the ball off of his foot and legs. He regularly leaves the floor without having somebody to pass to. He regularly throws one-armed, errant passes.

Yes, he's great. We're better off with him. But why why why why does he continue to make high school mistakes? Why hasn't this been coached out of him? These are such correctable mistakes, yet Coach Self hasn't corrected them in 4 years.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 10 months ago

The thought has definitely crossed my mind. But it's like getting drunk. The euphoria outweighs the next day hangover :)

lv_jhwk 9 years, 10 months ago

A "correctable mistake" as you refer to would be one in which a coach can actively change the outcome. Things like running a different o-b play, setting a screen higher or lower, and similar adjustments. Until a coach like Self can actually get inside a player's head, the things you talk about are not correctable on the coach's part.

I will agree with you wholeheartedly on the "why, why, why", but I direct my questions at Taylor himself, who has had more than enough time and opportunity to learn what not to do in certain situations.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 10 months ago

You don't agree that dribbling skills are a learned behavior? Are decision making skills learned? Is poor free throw shooting a learned behavior? Aren't learned behaviors corrected through positive and negative reinforcement and repitition? I could be way off, but I think that they are.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 10 months ago


I also hate when he drives to the hoop and gets his back parallel to the floor like he's gonna take a nap in mid air. He lays backward as he goes up for the shot....

Go up STRONG and straight to the GD Rack if that's what you intend to do Tyshawn.

You have the semi circle under the rim now--use it to your advantage.

AsadZ 9 years, 10 months ago

I have been a big TT fan. Even during his earlier struggless I always had hope that he will turn it around. However, after Duke loss in which he had 11 TOs I had lost faith in that TT can take on PG responsibility and deliver consistently, and I had openly suggested that HCBS switch him to #2 spot and make EJ PG of this team.

Now, after reading this article and quotes from HCBS, I have come to realization that I was wrong. HCBS knows his players better than any one else. I can fully understand his point. He may be playing a little bit psychological game here but I trust him.

TT, I am sorry for my earlier critics. I hope you continue to play well and as coach says tighten things up and become true leader of this team. All The Best.

Gary Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

I can't speak for anyone else, but my frustration with TT lies in that he's potentially as talented a guard as we've seen at KU. No one can get to the hole faster, and his shot has improved. He just doesn't play smart, and no one will ever refer to him as a student of the game. HCBS has never defended a player more ferverently because Tyshawn has such a fragile mind. It's embarrassing to watch, actually.

As to the suggestion that TT will be drafted, thanks for the laugh. That wouldn't happen if this were the old days when there were more than two rounds.

RockChalk26 9 years, 10 months ago

EJ round #2, Pick#11? I love it! Go EJ!

Matt Herrera 9 years, 10 months ago

I heard a rumor Charlie Weis may be looking to recruit Tyshawn to play defensive back because he heard TT can create turnovers.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

"These are such correctable mistakes, yet Coach Self hasn't corrected them in 4 years." Blownjay's excellent point above.

As I've mentioned before, Bill Self has created the monster. He's permitted it. He's tolerated it. He's done a bit of "discipline" related to on court play, but then goes right back to TT as if nothing happend. He's made it clear that TT is his guy. Great example was the end of last season when EJ took TT's place .. EJ played great. But many of predicted the EJ's fate .. it didn't matter. TT was destined to take the spot back regardless of EJ's play. It's admirable to defend his player .. and he's right, we need the guy, we would be worse than 7-2 without him, and he extremely talented. The time to change TT has come and gone. An epiphany is highly unlikely.

Bill Self has failed to get the guy under control. This may be a shock to those who believe he is perfection in human skin. What we see is a player that in short bursts, almost like a kid getting scolded, will become more under control ... only to digress back to the monster. The only consistent stretch of excellent, under control play, was the start of the 2010-11 season.

Coach Self has no other choice but to pump this guy up. We desperately need him this season. Focusing on the positives is the best choice at this point.

142466 9 years, 10 months ago

Your view is plausible. We'll never know whether the blame lies mostly with TT or with Self, because, as you stated, Self has little choice but to rely heavily on TT. Could be, too, that TT's personality and mind don't react well to criticism. There are players like that. Wilt, comes to mind, as an extreme example. What can you do with a player like that? The team will lose if the player like that rebels. It's essential that he play. Both the player and the coach know that. Tough situation.

A FB coach is better able to use a heavy hand with a player like that, because it's 1 of 22, not 1 of 5.

Steve Reigle 9 years, 10 months ago

I tend to agree Tyshawn Taylor doesn't get the credit he deserves. Thirteen assists against Ohio State?!!! That's serious basketball. Yes, he had more turnovers than I'd like to see but you can see from the body language that he does care about that. TT is not perfect but he's a very talented young man and I, for one, am both pleased and proud that he's a Jayhawk.

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 10 months ago

I agree he doesn't get credit for his talent, which outweighs his turnovers in my opinion. However, of those 13 assists, I credited 9 as earned. By earned I mean setting up a teammate for an open shot or helping his teammate create one. As far as his body language, he only cares that he looked bad. Look at how often he blames his teammates for a turnover when it actually is his fault.

Danny Hernandez 9 years, 10 months ago

With praise comes criticism, the name of the game in sports

KGphoto 9 years, 10 months ago

I love that Bill Self defends his guy, but didn't he just get finished with a mini tirade about how we are the worst passing team in the country? Isn't Taylor at the front of the line in that regard? I mean, he didn't single out Tyshawn, and I know other guys are making bad passes, so maybe that's what this is about, but he was steaming mad when he said those things about Ohio St. picking the score. So I think it's fair for us to criticize Tyshawn when he passes to Jay Bilas on the fast break.

He's a roller coaster ride. Sometimes you are leaning into the corners screaming in excitement, other times you might be throwing up on the person next to you.

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Jayhawkerjoel mentioned above that Self is playing psychologist with Taylor, trying to build his confidence. There's probably a lot of truth to that.

Self has many roles to play with some of these guys. Coach. Teacher. Father figure. Parole officer. I guess he has to pick and choose when to yell at them and when to play nice.

As fans, it's our right to criticize terrible play. The turnovers this year have just been awful, and I know I've strained some vocal chords screaming at the TV. (go ahead - call it whining. sigh........)

As a coach, Self knows that he's got to keep Taylor fit, emotionally and physically if we are going to make a run in March. As much as he frustrates me, we're going to have to have him in the lineup and playing well if we're going to go far this year.

Steve Reigle 9 years, 10 months ago

Yes, it is our right to criticize. But we tend to go heavy on the criticism and forget the praise. I'm not pointing at you, just "we fans" in general, including me.

John Randall 9 years, 10 months ago

On your mention of "troubled young players", has anyone seen any recent mention of the Stevenson kid we passed on when X finally caved to Carl, Sr and came to KU? That was one time I really hoped to be a witness to the benefits of "a KU experience" on some remarkable talent.

142466 9 years, 10 months ago

I've noticed a key difference in how Self reports to the media, compared to Roy Williams. I've noted it ever since year #1 of Self's tenure.

Williams rarely praised his players, when talking to the press. On those occasions when he did, his praise was cautious and measured.

Self, on the other hand, frequently praises his players in public. Often, enthusiastically. This difference also applies to how the two coaches publicly celebrate team victories.

I'm not sure to what extent these two different approaches are calculated, or natural. Or which is more effective. The two men do seem to have different personalities. Williams, suspicous, cautious and reserved. Self, much more exuberant, spontaneous, and optimistic.

I've participated in these LJW blogs for only a few months now. Maybe all this has already been discussed here. Does anybody else see it this way? Or see it differently.

Travis Avery 9 years, 10 months ago

I have no problem with TT's t.o.'s when he is making an aggressive play, but the t.o.'s that drive me crazy are the ones where he is being lackadaisical with the ball and just flat out gets his pocket picked! He just needs to value the ball more and understand that every possession is very important, which I am sure Coach Self has preached to him over and over again. But some kids just don't get it until later on in life and maybe TT won't while at KU. It's a shame because if he figured out the metal side of the game, with his talent he would be unstoppable!

HawkKlaw 9 years, 10 months ago

It's easy to be a critic and nitpick every facet of TT's game, but whether you like him or not he's the general on this KU team. He is the leader (if you don't believe me, take a look at the poll given to the players before the season kicked was unanimous). If KU is going to have any chance at winning it all this year, TT will be the one leading us there.

I have a lot more respect for the guy knowing that he put the team first and played through the injury to get us two tough wins. You can question his decision-making at times, but you can't question his heart. And like Self said, where would KU be without Tyshawn?

kufankam 9 years, 10 months ago

I don't mind it when a guy has 4 or 5 turnovers if they are aggressive type turnovers. TT has some of those, but the ones that are maddening are the ONE HANDED passes that HIS defender steals. I trust that, through film, Self will point these things out to him and I am hopeful of a good conference run for TT!!

Clarence Haynes 9 years, 10 months ago

A classic example of what Self is saying was early in the Ohio St game whenTT and EJ were on a break and both had open threes. Instead of taking the shot, TT dished it to EJ for a three and that was the beginning of EJ's string of threes. Good leadership IMO.

tom123kufan 9 years, 10 months ago

We as KU fans are so spoiled, year after year we are fed talent and great numbers and at the end of the day...normally a Win. It is so hard as a spoiled fan to understand that in a game perfection is seldom possible. It can be achieved in spurts, but over the long period of a season perfection 100% is kinda impossible. So stating that TT has made too many errors, but we still have been in every game and only lost two, which were in a distracting setting and against the top 6 in the country. The sky is not falling folks, we have the talent to go far, and if perfection raises its ugly head in March instead of in Dec like we have wanted it too, then look out! This team can be very dangerous in March if the loose ends get tied up for a stretch of games. Good for you coach to build up your player, letting him know you are in his corner. Kids want to play for coaches like that. At the end of the year lets watch TT get on a run and find the missing pieces we are all looking for. Coach has the faith and i do too. Go KU!

tom123kufan 9 years, 10 months ago

So stating that TT has made too many errors, but we still have been in every game and only lost two, which were in a distracting setting and against the top 6 in the country.......Need to add "isn't really fair to him as a player."

142466 9 years, 10 months ago

Yes. So far the team has exceeded reasonable expections. Shortly before the season started, I predicted a tie for second in the league and 9 or 10 losses by season's end. If we over-achieve in the first 4 or 5 league games, I'll gladly upgrade my predictions.

Robinson is a big, pleasant, surprise. I thought he might be this good, offensively, by year's end. Not this early. His total season performance could place him in the upper echelon of KU big men single seasons. Interesting to watch that unfold.

The overall quality of Div 1 BB play has markedly declined compared to 10 years ago. Just tune into ESPN and watch a few games involving storied BB programs We all know who to blame, the NBA. It is therefore possible, with some luck, that this year's team could go far in March.

Mizzou's team has exceeded expectations, too. Might be their best team in several years. I'm not a Tiger fan, but I must admit that I'm impressed so far.

justanotherfan 9 years, 10 months ago

Bill Self knows that in order for Tyshawn to play his best he must feel free. If Tyshawn is out there trying not to make mistakes, avoiding risks, etc. yes, turnovers will go down, but you will see Tyshawn's overall productivity fall. Instead of 13 assists, he would have had 4 or 5. Yeah, the turnovers would be limited, but do we want to give up 8 or 9 easy baskets in favor of not turning the ball or 5 or 6 times. Give me the 8 or 9 open looks. PGs get you open looks. Tyshawn does that for this team. Therefore, he is a good point guard. If he turns it over a little less, he could be great.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 10 months ago

Two sides to this coin:

Heads: He is a NC winning coach who sees Tyshawn every day, works with him and has trusted the team leadership to credibility. Team record during Tyshawn's time as a Jayhawk :102 -16

Tails; We all have seen every game that Tyshawn has played and observed repeated bad plays, bad shots and bad judgement, not to mention suspensions and off court issues.

Two conclusions: Oh my God, we only have one semester of Tyshawn left. Oh thank God, we only have one semester of Tyshawn left.

Which is your response?

RockChalk26 9 years, 10 months ago

I'm a "My God" guy. Yes, some of TT games are chalked full of dumb mistakes but rarely do his mistakes lead to loses. 102 - 16 lifetime as a Jayhawk is very impressive. It has to be one of the better winning percentages for any player at Kansas. He is a winner and will be missed. (Well, missed by me)

John Randall 9 years, 10 months ago

Love that "chalked full" play on expressions!

Eric J. Baker 9 years, 10 months ago

Gotta love the people qualifying Bill Self's points about Tyshawn as just defending his player or playing a psychology game with him.

Reminds me of how when Ray Bradbury gave a talk at a university about how Fahrenheit 451 had been misinterpreted, that it wasn't about censorship so much as it was about a society that would willingly substitute worthwhile knowledge with meaningless factoids. And a student got up and told him that it WAS about censorship, and that he was wrong about his own book.

People will cling to their ideas even when the ultimate authority, someone they have no business questioning, tells them otherwise. I don't care if you still hate Tyshawn, but this should at least make you appreciate all the amazing things he offers to this team.

lv_jhwk 9 years, 10 months ago

Stop trying to interject intelligent reasoning onto this board. Some of us would rather simply do the latter part without the use of the former.

justinryman 9 years, 10 months ago

Turnovers happen, but there is a difference in turnovers. there are lazy turnovers and there are aggressive ones. Lazy ones are the ones that cost you, aggressive ones, means you are trying to make a play and it just didn't go right.

The same goes for making a mistake and compounding it with another. A lazy pass on the wing and then committing a bad foul on a layup and giving them a chance at a 3pt play.

If TT is trying to make a play, or get something started and bad things happen I can live with that. I will take what he has given us and what he will give us. He's tough, he's hard nosed and this team needs him to play his style within Coach Self's style to be successful.

machinegun 9 years, 10 months ago

10 is the leader of our team. I support him unconditionally. We need Tyshawn now more than ever. Coach Self needs him to distribute the ball so that the other guys can get their shots.

Martin Shupert 9 years, 10 months ago

I'm going to trust Bobby Knight's judgement on this. His statement was something like: "I'm surprised to see Taylor making so many mistakes at this point in his career." If Coach Self believes the criticism is not justified, I'm totally willing to look at that and doubt my negative reaction to TT. However, Knight knows a little bit more about the game than Coach Self does... (He might be the only one on the planet in that category) and his criticism was continual during the game he covered. However, my biggest concern with TT is not the number of mistakes... It's his first reaction after making terrible decisions or bad plays. He is the one who points fingers, whines, etc. and throws teammates under the bus instead of manning up and owning his errors... and that is going to bite this team, big time, if he doesn't stop it.

Janet Olin 9 years, 10 months ago

Coach Knight was objective and diplomatic when he expressed surprise that a player would continue to make the same mistakes after starting for three years. A valid observation in my book, and not overly critical of the kid. Speed and athleticism only get you so far if your brain is disconnected.

MimiHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I wonder if Knight would have made the same observation if he knew TT was playing with a torn meniscus AND sprained MCL?

REHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I'm an old sofa rat who couldn't dribble a basketball the length of the centercourt Jayhawk at Allen Fieldhouse. Admittedly, sometimes I have been way too harsh in scolding Tyshawn for what I have observed as careless play...although I usually couch the criticism within a framework of marveling at his concurrent terrific production. After watching and reading about his playing through injury in the Long Beach State and Ohio State games, I pledged to myself to back off on future criticisms here at LJW. The kid is a tremendously talented athlete whose heart is invested in pursuit of Jayhawk wins. I hope that he will always look back fondly at Jayhawk basketball, in all its varied tentacles, as a major influence in a life filled with smiles and continual promise. He is a very rare talent who has undergone lotsa tweaking in these 3 1/2 years in Lawrence. I certainly do not envision this squad winning another league title or advancing beyond the Sweet 16 without his very valuable input. Just as does the coaching staff, I will probably grind my molars frequently as this team continues to grow and develop. But I will strive in earnest, henceforth, to switch focus to the more positive aspects of all efforts and performances of all members of this squad. Rarely have we witnessed so many fresh faces in an annual starting lineup. This team is a weekly work in progress. The two wins last week were huge. And Tyshawn Taylor helped us to those victories, playing on a gimpy knee, leading a squad which was battling the flu and its lingering effects. Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

REHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

In a less serious vein, I will say this about TT. Rarely does a Jayhawk hoopster affect my heartbeat so relentlessly within the 40 minutes of a sports contest. Heck, if I am engaged in viewing golf or baseball, I demand a coupla snorts of Old Crow just to stay awake. When Taylor comes dribbling up the court my heartbeat quivers and bloodpressure bristles to the point of Red Alert!

142466 9 years, 10 months ago

I understand your quivers and bristles. Try this. Lower your expectations for this year's team. That's what I did before the season even started. That way this year's surprises will likely be mostly pleasant. We've already had one unexpected win, OSU. By the way, this year's team is the first one of Self's KU squads for which I have predicted rather ordinary results, rather than triumph. Rationality. Makes for a more happy viewing experience.

hawk_of_ages 9 years, 10 months ago

"Let's never look at the negatives (uh facts) let's just look at the positives."

Right, because there are no positive facts, only negative ones. And Self has "never" said anything negative about Tyshawn or any of his other players.

No doubt you're correct in those sweeping assertions. I won't even bother to fact-check them, because you seem like such a credible and trustworthy source.

wildcatkiller 9 years, 10 months ago

Bill Self has always had a crush on tyshawn and I have never been able to understand it the past 4 years. The guy turns the ball over to much to be considered a good point guard and doesn't have the ability to shoot from the outside well enough to be considered a good 2 guard. I know record wise he has been great at ku but I definitly wont start crying when he graduates.

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 10 months ago

He is shooting very well from the outside and would be a very good 2 guard.

John Randall 9 years, 10 months ago

Did you ever think maybe an ex-point guard with limited athleticism would develop an envy for point guards with speed, hops, quickness that gives them more credit than they are due? I felt that way about Collins as well.

AsadZ 9 years, 10 months ago

Lets not forget that while TT is a 4 year starter his role and what coach has been asking him to do each year has been very different. Being QB/run the offense is a new role for TT this year. He is adjusting. He is trying hard. He is getting better. And my admire for him increased significantly after learning that he played both games last week with a painful injury, showing great heart and never compalined about it. Go Tyshawn.

Alohahawk 9 years, 10 months ago

LOL....Makes one ponder where we'd compare other posters from this board to the list. And to which we'd compare ourselves.

3. Would seem the natural choice for placing ourselves. (Person who is exactly right.)

7. Would also fit numerous posters, since it's states, "Self punisher", (pun intended).

Thanks for the early Xmas gift.

chriz 9 years, 10 months ago

Maybe it's been said here before, but I don't think anyone's questioning whether Taylor should be on the court as much as he is. A lot of us are questioning whether he should be point guard. I would have no problems letting him play the Chalmers role and for Elijah playing the point. And I don't think Tyshawn would have any problems with that, either.

I'd like Tyshawn on the floor for 35 minutes a game. And I'd also like to have a point guard on the floor for that long who doesn't seem to have a problem dribbling the ball off his knees and feet.

bamahawk1 9 years, 10 months ago

Completely agree. Most of the blame about Tyshawn's on the court issues are on the coaching staff. Tyshawn is in no way shape or form a point guard. They have forced him to be one to make up for lack of recruiting at that position.

Mike Kendall 9 years, 10 months ago

102-16----Tyshawn's record as a player at KU----that's impressive, which is why I don't hate TT but in the final wash, it's Self's judgement that counts (thanks Alohajayhawk). Tyshawn makes some bonehead plays, let's admit it. However, he is an incredible athlete and does good things to make us win in the end. I think it will be an important thing to develop N-Tharpe throughout the season because TT can't do it all at point guard. A lot of Jayhawk Nation posters and HCBS has already made that point.

So TT---get well soon! We need you!

Steve Reigle 9 years, 10 months ago

A side note about the OSU game - we had 18 turnovers. They had 15. Yet the announcers kept harping on our turnovers.

142466 9 years, 10 months ago

Yea. Many broadcasters have an" insightful" agenda that they're determined to reveal during the game, regardless of what's unfolding on the playing field. Even two of the all-time best, Kurt Gowdy and Tony Kubeck, were guilty of this, on summer Saturday afternoons.

I'll never forget Gowdy's TV broadcast of a KU final four game in the 1970's. Our guard, Clint Johnson, from Leavenworth, had a good game (he'd been consistently good all year). Gowdy referred to Johnson as "Jones", over and over. I still remember Gowdy's constant, chant, "Look at that Clint Jones for Kansas. My how he's surprising everybody". Sure Gowdy, you prepared to praise UCLA only, not KU.

jagfar 9 years, 10 months ago

Kid's physical talents out pace his ability to read the situation. So he often finds himself in spots he can't get out of. He is also one of the most careless point guards with regard to protecting the ball. His positives may outweigh the negatives, but we have already lost one game (Duke) we could have won without the excessive turnovers. I think this will manifest again, but then, its all about the journey, right?

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 10 months ago

I would most definitely agree with you if Ty was a pg. A lot of fans here think Ty is a pg because Self is having him play there. Many also think Self is a psychological "master". He's good but not a "master". Someone above posted that Self likes these kids with a rough upbringing, he can help them. If so, I believe he's trying to manufacture a pg because he knows Ty isn't big enough for a 2 in the NBA, and also lacks the skills of a pg in the NBA. If Self was a psychological "master", Sherron Collins would be a pg in the NBA, and we know how Self feels about him.

FLJHK 9 years, 10 months ago

Mainly we're just pretty spoiled. I'll take TT on a bad day over 80% of college PGs in the country; on a good day he's at 95%. I'm hopeful that a few times he will be at his very best and no one would be better. I hope even more that those rare occasions occur at the best possible times. He was a stud at the end of last season and in the tourney.

His playing hurt the past two games impressed me a lot. Get well TT. You are as big a key to this season as anyone on the team.

ku_foaf 9 years, 10 months ago

Definite +1. Tyshawn was the only one that really had a good game the last game of the season.

tom123kufan 9 years, 10 months ago

Point guard Aaron Craft said the Buckeyes learned a lot from their first defeat.

"Watching the tape, we played hard and we played with some good toughness, it being our first road game," he said. "But we made mistakes that we don't normally make. If Jared would have played and we made the same mistakes, they still would have won the game because we didn't play Ohio State basketball."

Rock Chalk Baby!

Alohahawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Giving credit where credit is due. Ohio State didn't play their normal game because they were playing a Kansas team that has been taught to play exceptional defense. Enough said.

Ben Simonett 9 years, 10 months ago

I would wager that if Self had a viable option at PG other than Taylor this year we wouldn't be reading this article.

Over the last 2 seasons we've seen Self not hesitate to pull TT from the lineup and reduce his minutes when he puts together strings of performances like he has recently. In those cases we were fed articles essentially stating "it wasn't because TT was playing bad it was because EJ/Little/Brady/etc were playing so well in practice"

With his back against the wall the only option Self has is to play defense and try to shift the focus away from the apparent problem.

sleepy33 9 years, 10 months ago

“He’s got to tighten his game up. We’ve talked about it. We’re going to watch a lot more tape. He’s got a chance to watch a lot of tape right now and (we can) try to help him with that."

This right here is a most interesting statement. We can TRY to help him with that? Does this mean that watching tape, and actual, you know, study on the fundamentals of basketball is not a mandatory and regular part of being on the team? Watching TT play over the years, I've frequently thought that his mistakes involved some of the more basic components of the game (he's talented enough to do the really hard stuff, but the easy stuff trips him up). I've wondered if he was just asleep the day they taught the basics of basketball, but it's sounding to me like they really don't have any kind of formal structure in place for any kind of intellectual analysis of the game. If TT and the rest of the team spent half as much time analyzing their game as we do on these message boards, there would be no stopping them.

Kristen Downing 9 years, 10 months ago

Boy, Self is trying like heck to make sure Tyshawn has a shot at the NBA. I can't forget he had a record breaking 11 turnovers in a game he was not injured. NBA scouts won't forget either. Just glad he can score. When I think what Hinrich could have done with TRob....

JamesA 9 years, 10 months ago

Do you recall that KU's offense, in the Duke game, was Tyshawn driving the ball and getting to the free throw line? Taylor has to create offense on his own, and since he has the ball the most---being the point guard---he will suffer more turnovers. This isn't like any of the previous years because KU doesn't have the numerous scoring options. Look at the game, rather than the stats. This has nothing to do with Self wanting him to get into the NBA; get a clue.

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 10 months ago

Our beloved Jayhawks roster does have numerous scoring options. Of course Ty and TRob are given.

Withey- #36 rivals150 2008 Relly- #70 rivals150 2008 EJ- # 24 rivals150 2009

Hard to believe they would be rated this high in the country without the ability to score. Teahan and Kev obviously have shown they have the ability as well. I think cajayfan does have a clue.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

I have a bit of a problem with Self's "we don’t beat Long Beach State if he doesn’t play. And we certainly don’t beat Ohio State if he doesn’t play.” comments. Remember when several posters here criticized Thad Matta for telling Self "merry Christmas"? Some commented that basically it was a back-handed insult at his own team, that he had no confidence in them whatsoever to win the game without Sullinger. So, isn't this the same thing? Self basically saying that without Tyshawn no one else could have possibly stepped up in those games? Tyshawn had a decent week - 21 pts on a combined 35% shooting, 17 assists, 12 turnovers. Is that really that irreplaceable? In the LBS game when did we look our best? At the beginning of the game with Taylor on the bench and EJ running the point. What might the rest of the game looked like with EJ at the point? Or the Ohio State game? We'll never know, but from my perspective I think we win both of those games without Tyshawn.

Anyway, this is not meant as me trashing Tyshawn. And I applaud Coach Self for having his players' backs. Just seemed a poor way to do it in my opinion.

hawk_of_ages 9 years, 10 months ago

13 assists and you think we were better with him OUT of the game?

John Randall 9 years, 10 months ago

Certainly not better ... but not a complete washout, either. We might do fine for a few games (we did last year), but trying to finish this season without Tyshawn would be disastrous, IMHO.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

hawk_of_ages - Did I say that? I just think we still win, because yeah 13 assists, but also 7 turnovers and 3-9 shooting (I assume you're just referring to the OSU game since that is when he accumulated 13 assists). So better with him out? No. Not necessarily. Still able to win? Yes, I believe so, for those games at least.

Regardless, you missed the point of my post, which is that Self's comments are just as much of a back-handed insult to the rest of the team as Matta's comments were. And you missed the point just so you could point to his 13 assists. Much like Tyshawn's critics will constantly point to 11 turnovers. These are numbers that will now be firmly part of the Tyshawn debates. The staunchest supporters will continue to say "yeah he had 11 turnovers, but..." and dismiss his negatives just as his harshest critics will say "yeah 13 assists, but..." and marginalize his positives.

By now we know that any number of assists and/or turnovers is not going to sway most of the fans' entrenched beliefs. Tyshawn could have 15 turnovers, there would be criticism from posters, and it would be met with the response from many "Coach Self is playing him and he knows more than you. Yeah he had 15 turnovers, but without him we're not even in the game. I'm tired of these 'so-called fans' bashing him." Or Tyshawn could have 15 assists, there would be support from posters (many yelling at the top of their lungs "SEE!!!"), and that would be met with the response from many "he hasn't changed in 3+ years. His next atrocious performance is right around the corner. Yeah he had 15 assists, but he still uses lazy, one-armed passes, dribbles off his foot, and blindly penetrates the lane without a plan far too often."

The point here is that so many fans have lost all objectivity. Instead of acknowledging a bad or good performance, we simply fall back into these tired, boilerplate responses.

hawk_of_ages 9 years, 10 months ago

Sorry, I did misread your comment re. the LBS game.

But I don't really see how you could interpret Self's compliment of one player as a slap at the others. He's saying we could not have won without the positive things TT did -- that doesn't mean it would have been literally impossible for anyone else on the team to do it. If anything, it's just a way of challenging them to step up in TT's absence.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

Ralster -

  1. You are right. I don't know how this was viewed by the team. I do hope they interpreted it in the best possible light. Just when I read it seemed to be a poor way to convey his support. Bottom line is - nobody...not me, anyone else watching the games, even Bill Self KNOWS whether they win those games without Tyshawn. His performances were a net positive in my opinion, but it's not as if no one else was doing anything positive and he just put the team on his back and carried us to the win. And I agree about the espn commentary. In fact, I hope that was more what the comment was in response to and not Bill Self & staff reading the message boards.

  2. Yes I've seen that my avatar is indeed being used by another poster. First time I saw it I said "dude get your own avatar, I've had this one for over two years!" I was hoping that had done it, but alas no. So now I'm left with a dilemma: I could change mine, but then again why should I? I had it and have made a name for myself (depends on who you ask what that name is! LOL) behind this avatar. Or I could not change it, but run the risk of him not changing his either and, as you said, having his comments & views attributed to me.

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 10 months ago

Other than your last statement from the paragraph I agree. I have argued that I would like to see and why EJ should run the point after the LBS game. A fellow hawk made an elementary rebuttal and I referenced him to the same point, the first half of the LBS game. It's nice to see someone else saw that and commented.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

And we saw EJ run the point successfully last year in Tyshawn's absence.

As to the statement from the last paragraph, which post were you referring to?

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 10 months ago

I do remember, loved it.

That we would win without him. Only because of lack of depth and experience.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

True. Just by subtracting him, positives & negatives, it does leave us extremely thin. But you start Teahan, sub in Tharpe, steal some minutes with KY at the 3...maybe. I get your point though.

But if that is the case, that we lose just because subtracting him from the equation means more minutes for the less experienced, less talented players, by that logic we don't win the game without ANY of the players in our regular rotation. EJ, Travis, TRob, Withey.

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 10 months ago

I generally would agree, but because Ty had logged more minutes than the whole combined coming into the season, he is extremely important to our team.

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 10 months ago

...more minutes than the whole team combined...

machinegun 9 years, 10 months ago

Coach Self is responding to the unprecedented levels of rancor and vitriol being directed at Tyshawn Taylor by so-called KU basketball fans!

Tony Bandle 9 years, 10 months ago

Kansas Poster categories: which one ae you????

1] The Diehard [God sleeps in Jayhawk pajamas] 2] The Elitist [looks up words to use even if they don't know the meaning] 3] Mr/Ms Rational [ .....look at life from both sides, now, from win and lose and still somehow...etc.] 4] The Hater [I spit at thee for hates sake!!] 5] The Old Guy [back in my day, we sat on hot coals in Allen...and we loved it!!!!] 6] The Know It All [ The more I type, the smarter I look..not you, Jaybate, you do know most of it!!] 7] The Troll [Misery and Kensucky trolls are the most entertaining..KittyKat trolls are so lame] 8] The Comedian [Always going for the big laugh...well, it's better than being a hater] 9] The Guy Living in his Mom's Basement [ 45 years old with acne and still a virgin] 10] The Bushwacker [ lives to attack other posters] 11] The Sophisticated Sports Guru [ I dare someone to claim this one since, by the very nature of posting, you forfeit that title.] 12] The guy with the killer avatar [that would be Ralster] 13] The Long Distance Lover [Hawaii, Paris, Mars] 14] The Short but Sweet [make their point with less syllables than a haiku]

Tony Bandle 9 years, 10 months ago


Let me add 15] The Clever as Hell Poster!!

John Randall 9 years, 10 months ago

OMG, did you think of how many CHPs we'll see as a result of that label? BTW, thanks for acknowledging my nonpareil status.

I'm just fine with your list, since I get to decide which attributes belong in my resumé. Now that I look back, can't find many that don't apply at least once in a while. Those of us with ADD are better than the rest at hop-skotching through any number of permutations of that list. On a calm day, I'm good for at least 5 or 6 categories.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 10 months ago

That would be number 16 The Hottie, Cutie we'd all like to meet. :)

Gil Ek 9 years, 10 months ago

Give TT a break. Trying to adjust to a new group of players, early in the year with a TOUGH schedule, knee issue, we are O.K. It is time to just give him 100% support and every time he scores or makes a great assist or defensive play, raise the D.B. level to 115+ like it was at tipoff against B1G OSU. His upside potential is huge, he is close to getting there. Think by conference time he will settle in, and as he gets more support on the floor will calm down and excell. I think he wants success for the team more than anyone. Lets get behind him NOW! He will determine how far we go in March and that could be pretty deep.

142466 9 years, 10 months ago

I think the tough early schedule prevented Self from sufficiently testing EJ at the point. Going into this season, Self knew that unlike prior teams, this year's squad needs to secure every win possible, especially in early games, to build a resume for March. Self surely knows that this team's league record may not be that stellar. So the outcome of non-conference games could be much more important for this squad than for past teams. Overall, good results so far.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

I dribbled a ball one time out of bounces .. it had a hole in it. No more bounces.

manginodrh00lz 9 years, 10 months ago

You didn't like Brady? Why haven't you told us this before?

Page Butler 9 years, 10 months ago

I really love watching Tyshawn play basketball. He plays with enthusiasm and energy. I would say that part of the problem with the fans getting on him this year was caused by him being suspended for the first two exhibition games. We saw many of the players play timidly in the first exhibition and then much better in the second one. Tyshawn didn't have the luxury of working out some of the kinks in games that don't count like the other players did. I also think that it put him more under the microscope than he would have been otherwise. I hope that the fans that are being so critical will realize how good his game can be and encourage him to be all we know he can be and stop tearing him down. Tyshawn if you are reading any of this I want you to know you have a huge fan in me. RCJH

John Randall 9 years, 10 months ago

I doubt it – not many guys on crack can put the head of the hammer so squarely on the head of the nail.

Tuskin 9 years, 10 months ago

As I read Self's words, I think he believes that Tyshawn will do better if he has the fans' complete support. Let Self coach him. Let Self ride him when necessary. Let fans support him.

Some fans think criticism is warranted. No, not really. Even if it's accurate, that doesn't mean it's justified. And if it's inaccurate, it certainly isn't.

Bottom line: would you rather gripe, or would you rather support your team and your coach?

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

Time for pom-poms, a cute hair clip, matching shoe laces, and a skirt.

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 10 months ago

+2. The reality of the "everybody is a winner" mentality, well you know.

John Randall 9 years, 10 months ago

Dangerous question you ask there. Did you really want to incite a repetition? Just be sure to keep a list of responders so Santa can add it his first list.

justinryman 9 years, 10 months ago

I have a feeling that it isn't just one person flagging your post, since you either swear in them or disguise your swear words.

I am glad that we defeated BinLaden, but I don't have to swear like a sailor to get my point across to someone.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

I personally like the added emphasis at the end with the word "bit**".

Next time I point out Oakville is mistaken, I'll say, "Oakville, you're way out of line, bit**!" ...... I bet he'll get the point.

Or if ict is spouting off about something, I respond with "Shut your hole, bit**!" ..... that'll show him.

Better yet, if Jaybate is winning on debate points, I'll say "yea, but my dad can beat up your dad, bit**!"

See, adding "bit**" to end makes it so much better .. kinda like a cherry on top.

bamahawk1 9 years, 10 months ago

Taylor will undoubtedly go down as the WORST point guard in recent KU history. Why? Because he is not a point guard!!! He has no clue how to pass the basketball. He has no clue how to empower other players. He has no clue how to lead a team. He has no clue how to play team basketball. The kid averages 6+ turnovers a game as a 3 year starter. That would be a red flag at Pitt State! The fact that the KU coaches have not found a better point guard to lead our team over the past few years is down right PATHETIC!

justinryman 9 years, 10 months ago

Why cant people realize Tyshawn plays with the swagger he shows. This is how he sees the game. His speed is different than other teammate's speed, thus turnovers will happen. Just like adding Sherron to the 07 team did. Different speeds, what-a-changeup!

Aggressive turnovers are not always a bad thing. Pushing the ball up the court, making a hard pass, getting to the rim and dishing.

Sure sometimes TT gets up the court too fast and tries to do too much, instead of just scoring, pg's are to pass first then shoot. A hard pass sometimes might get there before a teammate gets their head turned around or their hands up, but that TO is on them too. Sure TT gets behind the backboard while up in the air, but he's looking to pass and a lot of guys on the floor are looking to the rim for the rebound. Unfortunately, once he's in the air he can only do so much for it, but it's better than just running out of bounds.

I can live with aggressiveness, and the turnovers that come with that. It's the slow lob passes across court that upset me. And for anyone that hacks on TT for his dribble of his leg against Duke, remember Danny Manning did it along the baseline against Nebraska and cost KU that game. Nobody hates on him as they have forgotten about that.

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 10 months ago

I respect your position, but before that you gave bamahawk1 crap for comparing Pitt St and Kansas. You followed it up by comparing Padgett to DJax, Shady, Cole, Marcus, Markieff, and TRob. Padgett left for the same reason Downs and Quintrell left, they were soft.

As far as the RussRob comment, he became the pg that led us to a national championship after Self moved him to the proper position. His struggles on the court early in his career were due to him having a pass first mentality and playing the 2. Chalmers could play either position well, but it was best for the team that Robinson play point. I think a switch needs to be made for Ty, and I think the switch for Ty from the 1 to the 2 would result in the country saying "he is one of the best if not the best at coming off a screen and scoring or drawing a foul when he drives to the rim."

master16 9 years, 10 months ago

TT is critical to this team. All his issues are in his head. Mentally, he has to get tougher. Physically, he's extremely athletic and fast. He has to learn not to make the same mistakes over and over again, which are mental issues. Keep his composure, limit his stupid turnovers, and we're alright. Otherwise, it might get ugly during conference play.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 10 months ago

I just found a photo of Eddie Murphy matching the photo of Tyshawn above with the quote " Oo Tay Buwheet...God forgive me, but I had to laugh!!

tical523 9 years, 10 months ago

Voicing opinion is what these posts are for, people need to quit assuming that posts are being malicious or mean spirited (dumb is another thing). We are very passionate fans who care more than most fans regarding players stats, attitudes and overall team results. I do not think that it bothers the players personally more than getting benched, letting a teammate down, or being yelled at by a coach....... you have to have thick skin under the intense microscope of being KU Basketball star (Ben Mac now knows). Do you really think big time studs, like our basketball players, really lose sleep or even fret over these posts, and don't give me that T Rob tweet. C'mon Son!!!!

tical523 9 years, 10 months ago

I am a very positive fan and you can read my posts for the last few years, I do not post so frequently like this week but my next work project is not until after the holidays. I am not referring, as I said, to dumb comments like. . .''tt is dumb as a rock", or "collins is not a legend/ bashing collins". I was referring to the post about the bob knight assessment, or stating tt values the ball the same as he did as a freshman and that is the main thing upperclassmen learn. Or as I was saying the other day about Robinson's attitude and I am not stepping back from that, I never said he was a prima donna, a bad dude or selfish, I just stated what many others including Self saw; all of those posts have been argued as stupid or dumb to say. I am really sorry if I have come across otherwise man, truly sorry.

MimiHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I think the very fact that Coach Self made this comment to the press leads me to conclude, yes, the negative comments do bother them.

lee3022 9 years, 10 months ago

I don't think many of us have not been frustrated with Taylor's turnovers. Yet I rarely express negativity toward any KU player. They are fellow alums. They try hard to a man. They achieve an amazing record each year. They entertain us and engage us to follow the team.

So I get coach's plea to back off of Tyshawn. He is our leader and how he goes determines how the season goes. Besides, not many of us know all the factors (such as the meniscus tear) that contributes to the result. Coach - you keep on recruiting and coaching and telling us what we need to know. For me - I will keep on encouraging other fans to trust in what you are doing (I have no illusions that any player reads these comments.)

REHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

It has been suggested that Bill Self possesses an almost worshipful appreciation for Tyshawn Taylor's natural talents and potential. I dare to suggest that, as a former Div. I guard, himself, Coach cherishes in TT the supertalent which he might have always dreamed for himself. Tyshawn's screwups on and off the court must be a hairpulling regular occurrence for his more grounded mentor these past 3 years. When Tyshawn is focused and playing to the positive limits of his potential, there are very few Division I players who can match his brilliance and exciting moves. Then the mundane basic no-nos leap up to bring the kid, his coach and fans back to earth. Until this squad has played its final second of basketball in this very unusual Jayhawk season, I think that all of us must pick up on the first portion of Mr. Alexander Pope's famous quote: Hope springs eternal... Then forget that Mr. Pope couched that hopeful beginning with a most satirical ending. Tyshawn and all his teammates bear the potential for bringing weekly hope to all of us, bigtime, as this seasson progresses. I truly believe that this squad is capable of defeating any team in the nation...if the whimsical gods of sport choose to shine their wand over Jayhawk performaces the next few months, especially in the Madness of March. We all know that some unlikely bench player is capable of entering the last minutes of a closing close contest to nail a pair of 3s which play hell with any team's season of hope. As point guard, Tyshawn spends more time than anyone with the ball. He is the focal point of this year's squad. I sense that he and his coach will lead us to some spectacular victories. I wish for both of them the very best.

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 10 months ago

Self may have been referring to RMK's game commentary, or the fans. Either way, TT doesn't always do the right thing, I don't believe the coaching staff always goes into a game prepared exactly the right way, and I sure don't think it does Kansas Basketball any good to have fans ripping on players when we all know the coaching staff will take care of that for us in practice and film sessions. Depth isn't really our problem, we just need the rest of the team to get more comfortable making plays, which will draw pressure off TT and TRob. Think back to RussRob, how much pressure was there on him to make things happen? He did his job well, but the whole team looked to score and make plays in 2008 which takes pressure off the PG.

It has to be a positive to have Self standing behind his players like this, and a good sign that he has a lot of faith in their abilities. I'm so anxious for the games with Baylor and Missouri this year, it's gonna be a real battle to pull off another BigXII title.

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 10 months ago


As far as this team needing to get more comfortable, I agree and your point is well made. But I think some key factors make these teams much different.

  1. Each of the players on the RussRob team had played experience significant minutes, other than Roderick.

  2. Even if Self didn't say ...... Because if you look at us, we don’t beat Long Beach State if he doesn’t play. And we certainly don’t beat Ohio State if he doesn’t play.”, the players know and play as if they are heavily dependent on Ty. Reason 1 is a big contributor to this.

With that said, it doesn't excuse them from getting comfortable. Hopefully they do some things to make themselves better over this 9 day game break.

KansasComet 9 years, 10 months ago

Every year in the Self Era, there has been at least one player on the team that drives fans crazy. That's just the way it is. This year, it seems to be Tyshawn Taylor. I wonder who will be the one next year.

Todd Mobray 9 years, 10 months ago

TT is one of the greatest talents Self has ever had. But in my opinion, he has one simple problem that explains our frustrations with him. He doesn't get it and has a lack of discipline to ever turn that around. Pretty simple, he doesn't truly grasp what it means to be a Jayhawk as evidenced by his actions that have got him suspended several times. Then he plays on a bad knee and shows a ton of heart. Comparably, during the games, he doesn't value possessions making simple turnovers followed by great plays that only he can make. The extreme highs and lows are frustrating for us as fans, because it seems so simple; keep the good and eliminate the bad, but it just must not be for some who operate at that high of a level.

Think of how Cowboys fans feel about Tony Romo, or Charles Barclay, or Lawrence Phillips, or Ryan Leaf, or Allan Iverson. There are some people who are so naturally talented that they have spent their whole life using that talent to carry themselves and feel it can get them out of any jam. Some are total busts as a pro and some simply never quite put it together enough to reach the summit.

I think a positive example would be Bill Walton, who was lucky enough to have the greatest (non-KU) coach of all time beat that sense of discipline into his head and surround him with a team that complimented him. That success carried over to the NBA. Still today when you hear Walton speak, you hear that mix of talented free sprit mixed with Wooden quotes that he probably heard daily as a college student. Lets hope that Coach Self is more of a teacher like Wooden and less of a "whatever it takes to win" guy like Tom Osborne or John Thompson and graduates a talented young man who mixes quotes about discipline and hard work with his song lyric tweets in the NBA. Self still has half of one more year to flip that switch in TT's head. A deep run in the tourney this year with TT as our leader would probably help.

Michael Luby 9 years, 10 months ago

Alright, lots of comments on here. Noone will probly read this BUT my 2 cents... TT is trying to be Sherron and he just cant. No way around it. He cant do it. For all of his athleticism and skill or whatever, he cannot run the point like Sherron. That said, I think there have been atleast 3 point guards in the history of KU Basketball that have been better than Sherron.
Jo Jo White Jacque Vaughn Russell Robinson

Im also adding Chalmers to this list even though he was mostly a shooting guard for us. He was still better in his junior year than Sherron was.

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

"The Law of Unintended Responses"

Some times what is most interesting about a story is its intended theme and subject matter; in this case, that would be Coach Self thinks Tyshawn is a very good player and fans should not be so critical of Tyshawn.

The coach speaking through the writer has effectively triggered an outpouring of praise for Tyshawn's considerable virtues, which seems the probable purpose for the story. The praise seems to outweigh the on-going criticism of Tyshawn's above average tendency to throw the ball away, and occasionally drive into trouble. I like this, because it appeals to my bias about Tyshawn being an exceptional player, but I imagine it grates on those that find him lacking.

Frankly, none of the above interests me much, because I already thought Tyshawn was a good player without being told so, but I thought it necessary to relate before remarking on what the story perhaps unintentionally did cause me to think about.

~This story made me wonder how and from where the criticism of Tyshawn Self finds excessive is being received. By this I mean, are fans at the games being too critical, or is it fans on campus and in stores, or is it fans on internet sites that coaches and players are reading?

~Regardless, of source, the story made me wonder, if Bill Self and his players appear to be paying rather more attention to what is being communicated about them than maybe useful. By this I mean skilled persons performing at a high level really ought not to worry to much about what fans think, unless what they are thinking and communicating is leading to reduced attendance, or reduced viewership. All public performers do have to gauge audience response, even as they ignore the specifics of it about how they ought to perform their particular skill. For example, BGL and Zenger were apparently gauging the negative fan reaction to Turner Gill in part by the ocean of empty seats, and hoping to keep it from blowing back on them, when they squeezed alums to get Turner a $6M ticket to ride. In Self's and Tyshawn's case, however, I don't see any empty seats, or other signs of declining revenue, so I frankly don't see why two such stellar performers as Self and Tyshawn should give a hoot about public criticism.

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

~The story made me wonder if basketball, itself, has crossed a threshold into the interactive era. By this I mean, does this story constitute Bill Self going indirectly interactive through a writer to enliven discussion and make himself, his players and KU basketball more of an online social network? Or is it an effort to manage public opinion? By this I means, is this story essentially yet an act of public relations conducted jointly with a journalistic outlet?

~The story made me wonder exactly what harm was resulting from the criticism that Self and the journalist seem to be trying to diminish? Was it aimed to reduce the hurt feelings of a player? Gee, I recently watched a video of Self in practice put out for public viewing (on ESPN, or something) and and have watched him for years in games and I can't think of a single comment on this web sit that would approach the intensity of his criticism. I would think after listening to Bill Self expand on one's problems in practice, the things written on this web site would be very minor irritants indeed.

~The story made me wonder if perhaps recruits and their parents might be finding the criticism of players on web sites too harsh, and so sending their children elsewhere? I find this improbable, but never the less the probably unintended consequence of this story was to make me wonder if was thought to be a cause of Self losing out in some recruiting battles? Again,its seems farfetched to me. I would vote for corruption at other programs, or a fear of playing for such a demanding coach, or a lack of minutes available for starting immediately, or, well, you get my point here. It seems improbable that Self thinks an internet website keeps players away, but you never know in this crazy new interactive era.

~Finally, the story made me wonder if this story were a clever coaching ploy to cheer up the spirits of a player who has broken his butt for Self for 4 years and who is now in a very scary situation of having a knee injury his senior year threatening his chances for a good senior season and being drafted. Maybe Coach Self is just using the media to buck up Tyshawns spirits after surgery. Maybe he is doing it, because he knew Tyshawn was going to have a lot of time to surf the net the next week or two.

All these things this anomalous story made me wonder. And I wondered much more about these things than I did about how good of a player Tyshawn was (I already knew he was a very fine player) and about how unjustified the fan criticism of Tyshawn often is (I already knew it was often unjustified).

Whatever, the coach and the writer accomplished one thing for certain: they reminded me of the law of unintended consequences.

So call this post an example of the law of unintended responses.

jaywords 9 years, 10 months ago

That's an enticing range of fertile considerations, Jaybate.

I'l add one more (admittedly ham-fisted) speculation: Could Tyshawn's draft stock be at stake amidst the popular perception that he doesn't protect the ball, that his handles are weak? Perhaps Self is going to bat for his PG's reputation, to help counter counter-productive attention that might affect TT's NBA potential. Part of his job is to tutor guys like Tyshawn, to help them elevate their chops -- and to usher them into the pros with as much momentum as possible. This is as likely to be motivated by wanting to do TT a solid (e.g. in return for four years of hard labor and loyalty) as it may be motivated by its potential effect on recruiting (i.e. the more players Self ushers into the L, the more high school seniors will see coming to KU as a sensible professional move). Just seeing the Self has his team leader's back sends a pretty strong message to the universe.

boknowssports 9 years, 10 months ago

a couple of comments in favor of Tyshawn. After a great freshman year, I think the Xavier Henry experiment the next year really through Tyshawn off.

second, as a 1,000 point KU player, I think he has been a great contributor to KU basketball.

third, I don't know where to find the stats, but I have to think he is near the top in all-time assists for a KU player. Don't you know the Morris twins owe millions to Tyshawn's assists.

fourth, I like EJ a lot, but I do not think he has the ability to take it to the hoop and dish off to a big as well as Tyshawn.

Janet Olin 9 years, 10 months ago

Wouldn't be fair if he were a Freshman; very fair making the same mistakes as a Senior.

Michael Luby 9 years, 10 months ago

Tyshawn's career assist totals arent even on the radar for the top all time list.

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