Wednesday, December 20, 2006

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Jayhawks end layoff with laugher

By Gary Bedore

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KU vs. Winston-Salem State

Scrooge does not play for Kansas University's men's basketball team.

It just seemed that way the past 21â2 weeks as the Jayhawks labored with dour faces since a lethargic loss at DePaul.

"Some of our fans said we act like we're depressed. I tried to start smiling. I think it helped a lot tonight," KU sophomore Brandon Rush said after a 94-43 nonconference laugher over Winston-Salem State on Tuesday night in Allen Fieldhouse.

Rush, who tied Julian Wright for team-high scoring honors with 15 points, was grinning ear to ear after several alley-oop dunks - the Jayhawks had 56 points in the paint - and after one missed dunk, Sasha Kaun's second-half clang.

"I think the whole bench was scared to laugh. I laughed for them," Rush said. "I think Sasha getting hung is the funniest thing I've ever seen in a game."

Kaun, who had 11 points and six boards while making his first start of the season, accepted Rush's ribbing in stride.

"He always gives me a hard time," Kaun, who has been slowed by knee and ankle injuries this season, said with a grin. "I didn't jump high enough on that one, I guess."

Go figure

1

Points scored by WSSU from the free-throw line

12

Points scored by Kansas from the free-throw line

38

Field goals by the Jayhawks

29

Assists on those 38 field goals

10

Kansas' turnovers

24

Winston-Salem State's turnovers

19-for-33

KU's first-half field-goal shooting (57.6 percent)

19-for-32

KU's second-half field-goal shooting (59.4 percent)

Darnell Jackson, who had six boards, three assists as well as four points, also missed a slam in a game the Jayhawks (9-2) cashed 58.5 percent of their shots to the Rams' 34 percent.

"Our goal tonight was to play our type of game, get back to the old Kansas we used to be," Rush said of a freewheeling team that attempted and converted a lot of slams off feeds from Mario Chalmers, Russell Robinson and Sherron Collins, who had eight, five and three assists respectively.

And did KU, in fact, resemble the Jayhawks of old?

"Yes, yes," Rush responded.

"We got up and down the floor on the fast break. Most of our points were fast break. We accomplished our goal tonight. Running, running, running : it helps," Rush added.

The Jayhawks led just 15-13 before embarking on a 30-8 run to close the half. The only negative was letting the Rams (1-14) knock down five of 10 threes the first half and eight of 22 for the game.

Aside from that, it was fun for the fans and players to watch reserves Jeremy Case score eight points and Brady Morningstar contribute four.

"The guys have been playing like there's a weight on their shoulders. Tonight there was none of that. Guys were having fun, laughing, looking like they enjoyed it," said KU coach Bill Self, who indicated the Jayhawks have "had nine or 10 good practices in a row, which is pretty good for any team.

"We pushed it better tonight and got a lot of easy baskets because of it. Basketball is a lot easier if you get easier baskets. You get those by running or crashing the boards."

Audio clips

2006-07 Dec. 19 KU-WSS Hoops

The Jayhawks had 29 assists against 10 turnovers to the Rams' 10 assists and 24 bobbles.

"We've got some guys being more aggressive, which is good," Self said. "All scorers should always be thinking about scoring, and we have some guys that can really score. But that's not why we've been playing poorly. It's because we've been passing too much. We haven't been aggressive enough to put ourselves in position to make plays, whether it be by shooting the ball or getting our nose dirty. Tonight I thought we had them on their heels."

Wright hit seven of eight shots and also had nine rebounds, while Darrell Arthur hit six of 10 shots and had 13 points. Collins hit three threes and totaled 11 points.

"We've openly talked about a lot of things, the biggest thing we said is we're not playing with the zest or enthusiasm we need. We've not played the game the way it's meant to be played."

The Jayhawks hope to build on the blowout in Saturday's 1 p.m. home game against Boston College.

"I'm encouraged," Self said, "but by no means is this an indication of what we're going to see Saturday against the 7-2 Eagles. This was a good game for our guys to get some rust off."

KU vs. Winston-Salem State

Comments

jimjones (anonymous) says...

It's too bad we have to wait until Apr. 3rd to announce Self's replacement. I wish they would just get it over with now.

December 20, 2006 at 12:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

cap10d (anonymous) says...

Your an idiot!

Self signs new deal

By The Slant Staff Rivals.com

Lawrence, Kan. -- University of Kansas men's basketball Coach Bill Self has signed a new five-year contract that begins retroactively on April 1, 2006, and expires in March 2011, said KU Athletics Director Lew Perkins. Self's prior contract had two years remaining (expiring April 20, 2008).

Under the new contract, Kansas Athletics will pay Self an annual salary of $220,000, plus additional payments that bring his total compensation to just over $1.375 million per year. The compensation includes payment for professional services, which may include educational, public relations and promotional duties as assigned by the director of athletics.

Such duties could include the production of any radio or television shows, internet features or Self's occasional endorsement of products affiliated with and approved by Kansas Athletics or its marketing partner(s).

December 20, 2006 at 2:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

mitch (anonymous) says...

No talk this time about playing down to the level of the opponent. They played their game and they did it both halves. It was really good to get both Case and Morningstar involved. They have a lot to offer and it seems silly to keep them riding the bench when the stars aren't shining. And if Rush can improve his game by smiling, then let's see a big, broad smile every game. When he smiles, so do his teammates and all of the rest of us. Go 'Hawks!

December 20, 2006 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

GIHAWK (anonymous) says...

Make the extra pass when you are covered, but SHOOT the ball if you have a great open look!

December 20, 2006 at 8:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

oldalum (anonymous) says...

Before criticizing you should have listened to the entire interview instead of just reading an isolated quote. He was referring to a lack of agressiveness and the tendency to pass the ball off instead of taking that open shot.

December 20, 2006 at 8:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

mariofan11 (anonymous) says...

I still laugh that our two losses are to two teams that pretty much have no shot at making the Big Dance. I drove by Oral Roberts the other day while I was in Tulsa, and i said to myself...."Wow, this campus beat us?" At home! Nice. We have just as much talent as anyone in the nation, but our coaching is average. Well, you have seen that in the last 2 NCAA Tourneys.

Bucknell, Bradley, St Joes, Oral Roberts, Nevada, DePaul......I wonder if Roy has ever lost to any of those teams?

December 20, 2006 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Good win. I'd have had more confidence in the performance had we been playing DePaul or ORU, but I'll take it. At least it's something to build on. Maybe the players will get the feeling in their heads that they can begin the second half of the season like they did last year. Anything that lifts the team...

All this Self vs. Williams stuff really needs to stop. It doesn't get KU anywhere. Realistically, any sane person would have to say Roy is the better coach, but look...it makes no difference! Self is who we have and he's a great coach who is capable of achieving great things here at KU, so we should just all get on board and support him. A vote for Self is a vote for the Hawks. He's our man right now. Just please stop all the bashing, it's really pointless.

Other thoughts...

I did like Keegan's article about suiting up the top ten players and making them play against each other (winners win the starting jobs in games, losers run extra in practice). You gotta keep a team razor sharp, and this may not be the best idea, but it's the best idea I've heard so far.

I like KU's chances to go undefeated in Big XII play. I'm not saying it will happen, necessarily, but if anyone in the league could accomplish the feat the Crimson and Blue would have to be the odd's-on favorite to do so. There are some decent teams lurking in the conference this year so it won't be easy, but it IS achievable.

Enough for now, if I write any more they'd have to pay me as a columnist. Rock Chalk Jayhawk Nation! Hugs and handpounds...

December 20, 2006 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

RaefLafrentz45 (anonymous) says...

I agree, bring back larry brown...even if it means recruiting violations and sanctions (tongue-in-cheek).

December 20, 2006 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

BigTamale (anonymous) says...

Forget Roy...Bill may have lost those games to the mid-majors, but I think we as Kansas fans take the "what have you done for me lately" philosophy too much.
Remember when ROY lost to UTEP in 1992
Remember when ROY lost to Virginia in 1995
Remember when ROY lost to Rhode Island
Remember that 9 Year stretch without any Final Four Appearance?
Granted, Roy never lost in the 1st round, but he lost in the Second round on many occasions with more talent (Pierece, LaFrentz, Vaughn, Pollard).
The last thing we remember about Roy was the 2 Final Fours.

Remember guys...Our Starters are Freshmen and Sophmores they are young and they will get better!

December 20, 2006 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

maury (anonymous) says...

I think everybody just needs to remember that it was around this time last year that this team started to come together, and I believe they will again this year, and I don't want to hear any more crap about Bill Self not being a good coach....you don't take three different school to the elite eight on being a crappy coach.

December 20, 2006 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

speedy (anonymous) says...

forget roy! he bailed out and QUIT!
back a few years ago ku had to have a new coach. coach harp retired. so who,s next. the two better chices[i guess] were ralph miller from phog allen ku, and ted owens. we know who got the job. ralph miller ended up in the ton 10 wins of all time coaching. wsu, iowa,oregon st. well ku could have had turgeon but was he ready? so we have another oklahoma coach. only time will tell us if the ad was in too much of a hurry to get self signed again. me i would have waited un til self proved his worth. but its still go ku. maybe the players will make him into a better coach.

December 20, 2006 at 9:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

doctorWho (anonymous) says...

Just a nice little win. Nothing more.

The next game will be more telling.

December 20, 2006 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

ohjayhawk (anonymous) says...

BigTamale (and mariofan),

Don't forget the loss to Long Beach State in 1993. At home! By 15! (And, from being at that game, I can tell you it wasn't even that close). Oh, and how about the time Roy's team lost to Ball State in 2001. He lost to the mid-majors too.

I might add that those two seasons ended up with KU in the Final Four. So, please don't let those losses cloud your judgement.

Also, I've seen publications that have Oral Roberts winning their conference and going to the NCAA's.

There is getting to be quite a bit of parity in college basketball these days. Unfortunately, we're going to have to expect some big upsets. Ask Wisconsin from last year, losing to a D-II team. At home!

December 20, 2006 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kansas1986 (anonymous) says...

BigTamale/maury: Good posts. How can people say that Bill Self is not a good coach? He is the only coach in NCAA history to take three different teams to the Elite Eight. He was one point short of taking KU to the Final Four his first year. Roy Williams coached here 15 seasons and had 9 regular season conference championships and 3 tournament championships, while Self has been here just 3 years and has (correct me if I'm wrong) 3 regular season championships and 1 Tournament championship. It seems to me at that pace Bill will pass Roy easily.
To those who whine about Roy being the better coach and leaving I say this... root for North Carolina!
Rock Chalk Jayhawks!

December 20, 2006 at 10:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jhawklifer (anonymous) says...

Keep smiling, Brandon. You're on to something there.

Russell is passing up too many open looks. Gotta take them in the flow of the offense; every time he doesn't shoot, the offense stagnates a little more. Last night he passed up multiple open shots on multiple possessions. In a rout when confidence for everyone should have been palpable. Get in the gym for forever, Russ, and hit X in a row before you go home or something. We need you to cash those open treys!

Roy's teams were way more heartbreaking. That Bradley team last year had a first round draft pick, and our guys were super young. The Bucknell loss...well, that was a decent opponent, and our players (read: Miles and Langford, AKA Roy's Boys) hated their coach that year, so our early season success was a smokescreen while we inevitably plodded toward disaster (read: 7-7 in our last 14 games). I was not happy with that team. Bill needs to advance this year though, for sure.

Still, those second round disasters with all the talent and cohesion Roy had, as recounted above, just goes to show how he generally coaches big games with both hands wrapped around his neck. He needed four (count 'em) lottery picks in the following draft to win the big one, and that team almost blew it at the end to a real good Illinois team with its NBA guard trio (but only one lottery pick) perhaps not coincidently constructed by Mr. Self.

Hopefully Self can grow into a coach with some fortitude and instill our guys with the confidence to be Kansas and kick tail every game.

Rock Chalk.

December 20, 2006 at 10:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

bristowhawk (anonymous) says...

Coulda, Would, Shoulda. Enough already. You people that want to get rid of Bill make me sick. To me it means you have given up on the season and it hasn't even gotten started. I really can't beleive this. If the players are reading any of the junk posted here, it would be a wonder if they could win any games. Positive attitude equates to positive results. With the attitude some of you are taking, you would think you want the Hawks to have to play on Thursday in the Big XII tourney. That would be a good reason to not only get rid of Self but to revoke every scholarship. For now, when I hear the Kansas Jayhawks coached by Bill Self, I cheer for my team AND their coach.

you want your team to be positive, you need to be positive!

December 20, 2006 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

My response to all of you who are continuing with the Williams-bashing is that Roy's leaving for UNC is MORE justifiable and not less than Browns departure for the NBA. Roy had ties to UNC. That was his HOME. Thats where he was from! Larry Brown had no stake in the National Basketball Association. None whatsoever. This makes Williams' departure mitigated when compared to Brown's. Why don't any of you have anything negative to say about Brown? I'll tell you why:because you're too clouded to distinguish even the inconsistencies in your own logic. I ask again: Where are the brown bashers???

And there is not a sound:

Roy didn't leave to just any school. He left for where he learned the game. He left for where he and his children were born. William's dilemma was and always has been an understandable one, but unfortunately there are people who masquerade as Kansas fans who fail to grasp the human emotions of what he was going through. Their true shame is that they make no effort to try, except for paltry lip service. Not only was North Carolina his home, but UNC is where his mentor beckoned him. the fact that he left for unc should therefore underscore his loyalty, and not be hastily offered as evidence against it. The fact is, he didn't WANT to leave Kansas in his heart. He proved that, remember (twice)? But because of his loyalty, he reluctantly left.

Roy Williams has done more for KU basketball save a handful of people. Can you name anyone who's made a more significant contribution to KU BB (other than Naismith, Allen, Manning, and Larry Brown)?

And still there is silence:

He's certainly contributed more to this program than any of you sniveling about what he failed to do. Here is the evidence:

December 20, 2006 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Williams coached 15 seasons at Kansas (from 1988-2003). During that time he had a record of 418-101, a .805 winning percentage. Williams's Kansas teams averaged 27.8 wins per season. Except for his first season at Kansas (when the team was on probation), all of Williams' teams made the NCAA tournament. Kansas won the Big 12 conference championship nine years while Williams was head coach.

Kansas won nine regular-season conference championships over his last 13 years. In seven years of Big 12 Conference play, his teams went 94-18, capturing the regular-season title in 1997, 1998, 2002 and 2003 and the postseason tournament crown in 1997, 1998 and 1999. In 2001-02, KU became the first Big 12 team to go 16-0 in league play. From 1995-98, Kansas was a combined 123-17 - an average of 30.8 wins per season. He was hired just months after the Danny Manning-led Jayhawks won the 1988 NCAA championship. Weeks after taking the position, KU was placed on probation for violations that took place prior to his arrival.

Williams' teams went 201-17 (.922) in Allen Fieldhouse, and won 62 consecutive games in Allen from February 1994 to December 1998. Kansas was a regular in the Associated Press Top 25 from 1991 to 1999, placing in the AP poll for 145 consecutive weeks. Williams' teams were ranked in the Top 10 in 194 AP polls since 1990.

Kansas led the nation in field goal percentage and scoring in 2002 and in scoring margin in 2003; held opponents to the lowest field goal percentage in the country in 2001 (37.8 percent); led the nation in winning percentage in 1997 and 2002; shot better than 50 percent from the floor seven times and led the country in field goal percentage in 1990 at 53.3 percent and in 2002 at 50.6 percent; shot a combined 49.4 percent from the floor in 15 seasons; led the nation in assists in 2001 and 2002 and was seventh in the nation in 2003; scored 100 or more points 71 times (once every 13 games); averaged 82.7 points per game in 15 years; averaged 90 or more points in two seasons (92.1 in 1990 and 90.9 in 2002).

Williams had Kansas in the AP Top 25 in 242 of 268 weekly polls. Kansas reached the No. 1 ranking in the country in six different seasons and was ranked at least No. 2 in the nation in 11 of the 15 seasons. The Tar Heels finished the 2004-05 season ranked No. 1 in the coaches' poll and No. 2 in the Associated Press poll. Last year, the Tar Heels began the year out of the Top 25, but finished the year ranked No. 10. That was the 11th time in 18 years his teams finished in the Top 10 in the AP poll.

December 20, 2006 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Roy Williams, who is dearly departed, is more of a Jayhawk even now than most of you could be in your lifetime. To bash him labels you as a person who has no feel for the history or tradition of basketball at this institution. I remember well all that fire-breathing at courtside Williams displayed when he paced back and forth along the Kansas bench. He ACHED for KU to win. He was passionate about KU. You dont just lose that.

December 20, 2006 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

milehighhawker (anonymous) says...

I read an article this year comparing the 04 Illini team and this years Jayhawks, check this out....

Luther Head - Brandon Rush
Dee Brown - Sherron Collins
Daron Williams - Mario Chalmers
Roger Powell - Julian Wright
James Augustine - Darrell Arthur
Jack Ingram - Darnell Jackson
Nick Smith - Sasha Kaun
Rich McBride - Russell Robinson

That's the basic breakdown, I see a lot of similarities, and remember that team stayed together until they were seniors and juniors. Self is building a power house here, lets give him some time. He has, afterall taken two teams to the Elite 8 andin 3 years, I'll take that anytime

December 20, 2006 at 11:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

ColfromColorado (anonymous) says...

Williams was good for KU Basketball. He went home. There is no reason to bash him.

Self had proven his coaching ability with three teams before he came on board at KU. He has proven his coaching and recruiting ability at KU. There is no reason to bash him.

It just looks like some human beings have to vindictiveness and hatred come out of them. They can never be happy about anything. That is unfortunate for those people. But it looks like it a part of human nature. I choose to not live like that. Life is too short and nicer than that to go through like like that.

December 20, 2006 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kickazzkurtz (anonymous) says...

Here are some memorable Roy Losses to name a few:

Long Beach St @ KU in 1993 when KU was ranked #1
K-State @ KU in 1994 when KU was ranked #1
Ball State 2003 in Hawaii
Lost to Hawaii at Hawaii in 1998
UTEP second round 1993 as a 1 seed
Road Island second round 1998 as a 1 seed
Virgina @ Kemper 1994 Sweet 16

Temple 1996 Neutral Court NOTE: Jerrod Hasse was fouled and missed two free throws with 1 second left. Went to OT and lossed. When this happened last year at MU fans ripped Self for playing Moody over other players who had worse FT % than Moody.

In 2000-01 in the Sweet 16 KU with Kirk Hinrich, Drew Gooden and Nick Collison lost to Illinois (coached by Self) 80-64. Only player I remember Illinois having that made it in the NBA was Brian Cook.

The next year in the Sweet 16 KU rematched Self and Illinois in the Sweet 16. KU had Hinrich, Collison, Simien, Miles and Langford and Illinois (who lost some seniors, but had Dee Brown as a Freshman) only lost to KU by 4 points.

Roy also lost at North Carolina to Santa Clara with 6 or 7 NBA players and then won the championship that year. Things happen.

All coaches have had games they should or shouldn't have lost, it happens.

Look up some coaches records like Coach K and Bobby Knight, they won't always be impressive year after year. Coach K had a 73-59 (55%) record in 5 years at Army before Duke hired him. First year at Duke he won 17 games, followed it up with 10 wins and 11 wins and was almost fired in 1983. Duke wasn't spoiled in 1983 and used to winning so he kept his job. Lucky for them.

Great coaches have had some bad years. Same coach different players. If I was doing a science experiment and noticed how one variable changed and the other didn't I might come to the conclusion that Players play the game and coaches have a much much smaller part.

Roy left, get over it, Self is the coach. I used to rip Roy because he couldn't win the championship no matter how much talent he had.

Here are some more interesting coaching notes from Football:

Bill Belicheck fired at Cleveland (bad team), wins 3 Super Bowls at New England (Great team great QB and 1 tuck rule.

Joe Gibbs 3 Super Bowls...Joe Gibbs last 2 years not so good. No, football hasn't changed that much since he last coached.

George Siefiert Super Bowl at San Francisco with Joe Montana, but fired at Carolina

Dick Vermiel was barely over 500 winning record for the career 2 Super Bowls with 1 SB victory

Self was just like Turgeon. He went to Oral Roberts and had a 7 and 20 season, but turned it around and went 30-5 in his last season. Went to Tulsa and turned it around with an Elite Eight appearance. Went to Illinois and went to the Elite Eight.

Self's biggest problem is he will always be the coach after Roy Williams. Self can win Big 12 championships and go to Final Fours, but he will always be given crap by fans. Self should leave Kansas and move on, he deserves better.

December 20, 2006 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawk86 (anonymous) says...

Jross, Nice bio. I don't really think that people are Roy bashing, but they are sick of the Roy/Bill comparisons. After every game we have to hear "roy did this, and roy did that. Roy never would have done this, Roy never did that". It just gets old sometimes.
I am Sure that Coach Self would have loved the oppotunity for his first head coaching job to be a program the magnitude of KU and, been given 15 years, never win a championship and hardly ever get critisized. He has been here 3 full seasons, going on his 4th and people are calling for his head every day. All he has done is win the conference every year. Give the guy a chance and quit Bill Bashing.
When people point out Roys failings it is not to bash him, but to put into perspective what he has done also, and what he had to go thru. I hate the comments Like "did roy ever lose to teams like that?". Of course he did, but no one wants to mention it. Long Beach State at home and scoring only 49 points in that game comes to mind as does several others. (Hawaii, St. Louis, Ball State to name a few).
I enjoyed Roy as much as the next guy, But he doesn't coach here anymore, so I now support the coach we have. Is that a crime that i dont wistfully dream of the good 'ol days. I am a KU fan, Roy williams fan, and now a huge Bill Self fan. Lets see what he does given 15 years.

December 20, 2006 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

I figured there would be those who, about my post, would have something negative to say. Let me first congratulate you kurtz on staying true-to-form. You will notice that in my defense of Williams, I had nothing negative to offer about Kansas' current coach Bill Self. In fact, I have long championed the idea that we must support him. I have been no less adamant about the fact that the bashing of either Coach Williams or Self is fruitless at this point, and that the talking heads should amplify loudest toward the current situation at Kansas. I regret that there has to be any attention paid to the Williams situation in the first place, but I can not sit by in good conscious and read the tripe remarks of self-proclaimed fans who never did a single thing for KU basketball, and then turn around and attempt to tear down one of the men who did the most for it.

The fact that you point out Williams' downfalls means you are guilty in action of the very thing you said you no longer did (that is, to "...rip Roy"). It doesn't matter what he failed to accomplish. It matters only that he wanted to win more than anything else.

And the "get over it" comment? Begging your pardon, sir, but who needs to get over it? Perhaps you either need to read the post again or become literate, because I wasn't lamenting anything about Williams' tenure here, nor did I state I longed for his return.

I do respect the man for what he did at Kansas, and if that is a crime then I'm glad to be guilty...and I'll count myself amongst the truest of Jayhawk fans!

Rock Chalk forever!

December 20, 2006 at noon ( | suggest removal )

argentinehawk (anonymous) says...

"Forget Roy...Bill may have lost those games to the mid-majors, but I think we as Kansas fans take the "what have you done for me lately" philosophy too much. "

You know Big Tamale, you make a good point, but it's the truth. What has HCBS done for the Jayhawks lately. We know that BS also los to "mid majors", but he didn't do it at suck an alarming rate. Plus, even when his teams lost, his players still looked like the cared and that they gave it their all. This group that BS has now at times doesn't look like they give a crap, and that's what ticks a lot of us off!

December 20, 2006 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

argentinehawk (anonymous) says...

Sorry, I meant "Roy" also lost to mid majors

December 20, 2006 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Kevin12 (anonymous) says...

You know theres always going to be those idiotic Bill bashers, just like the idiotic people who based Roy when he was here at times. That's really all you can say.

December 20, 2006 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Kevin12 (anonymous) says...

Hey Mariofan11... Roy lost to Santa Clara last year when they were ranked one in the country. Umm KU lost to Ball State in 01-02... Lost to St Louis in 98-99...
Hawaii 97-98... Temple, Pau-Orthez, Strasbourg, and Lisborne all in 95-96... So you know give the guy a break...

December 20, 2006 at 12:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

BigTamale (anonymous) says...

Lets no worry too much about Self and Motivatation. Chalk up the lack of importance and motivation to lack of leadership and youth.
However, Self really should find a way to motivate them just a bit better.
It appears that we will very few jumping ship next year (due in part to their play), so motivation and leadership will grow next year.

December 20, 2006 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Agreed...idiotic!

December 20, 2006 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

argentinehawk (anonymous) says...

Probably Tamale, but we Jayhawk fans want it now!

December 20, 2006 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

chase353 (anonymous) says...

All I have to say is "Mom always said if you don't have something nice to say" I want to know how many of could coach or play for a major collage. That's what I thought.

December 20, 2006 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

argentinehawk (anonymous) says...

And I bet you're not one of them chase.

December 20, 2006 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

BigTamale (anonymous) says...

Question for all Jayhawks fans in Jayhawk Nation...

1. How many of us root against Roy when we see him on tv?

2. How many of us became DUKE fans overnight when Roy announced he was leaving to UNC?

3. How many have that "I we can't have Roy, then no one else can" feeling?

4. How many wish the Roy camparisons would go away?

If you answered "Yes" to #'s 1,2, &, 4 then you reflect the State of the Jayhawk Nation

If you answered "Yes" to #3 then seek help because you have Jelousy issues

December 20, 2006 at 12:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

BigTamale (anonymous) says...

LOL Argentinehawk...good one!

December 20, 2006 at 12:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

If you answered Yes to 1, 2, or 3 youre a moron and, NO, you DONT reflect the state of KU. Manhattan is just a few miles down the road...go west young man!

December 20, 2006 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

chase353 (anonymous) says...

argentinehawk! Your right and niether are you. But i do like watching the Hawks. It sounds like there are some out there that don't, so don't. I watched Ted, Larry, Roy and now Bill, and I will keep on watching.

December 20, 2006 at 12:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Argentine you appear more like a Wildcat fan every time you open your mouth. Somebody Beak Him!!!

December 20, 2006 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kickazzkurtz (anonymous) says...

Jross....I'm not bashing Williams. Only pointing out what he did and Coach K at Duke as a comparison that any coach can have losses, but players play the game. Please READ my post again. I also point to the fact I used to do the stupid things that fans are doing now; bashed Williams because he couldn't win a championship like Brown.

People do need to get over Roy leaving. They expect to win at 80% every year. I believe fans remember two straight Final Fours and forget that even Williams had bad times and then Self and the team suffer from the negativity and all the after the fact questions. People should watch the game and root for KU no matter who is coach and enjoy.

Fans were calling for Shannahan's head in Denver last year before they managed to make a run in the playoffs and wanted Plummer gone before the year began. Denver still has an Elway hangover.

December 20, 2006 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

BigTamale (anonymous) says...

You will find out that most will say YES to 1,2, and 4.

Your are probably in the Minority "Old man"

December 20, 2006 at 12:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Most people in the south would have wanted slavery, and they were wrong.

At one time communism was the most widespread of all social situations (Russia, China and others), so I suppose that was the best system according to your philosophy.

Most if not all radical muslims want death to America.

See, Tamale...an intelligent person knows that the rightness or wrongness of a thing doesn't rest in how many people think its right or wrong. That make take you some time to figure out, but Im sure youll manage.

December 20, 2006 at 12:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kickazzkurtz (anonymous) says...

I don't think Tamale said you were right if you answered yes to #1, 2 and 3, he just said you reflect what most Jayhawk Fans think if you answered yes.

Then he said your in the minority because you are in the minority if more fans think different. I don't know what he ment by Old Man, maybe he can clear that up.

December 20, 2006 at 1:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

I think, on the contrary, that he was making an issue over his feeling that he was in the majority opinion, and his feeling that I was in the minority. And all Im saying is that even at best (for him, meaning his feeling could be proven factual) it does not mean that I am wrong.

Wasted breath.

Getting back to the point, his Williams-bashing is tired already. Give it a rest Tamale.

December 20, 2006 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

CaramelMacchMan (anonymous) says...

did you say "We" jimjones?

You dont desurve to be in Rock Chalk Nation!

Get a life!!!!

December 20, 2006 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

BigTamale (anonymous) says...

That was my point people (jross) give it a rest!!

And I quote:

"3. How many have that "I we can't have Roy, then no one else can" feeling?

4. How many wish the Roy camparisons would go away?

If you answered "Yes" to #3 then seek help because you have Jelousy issues

I stress the last two...the first two were nearly for Humor

Thank you kickazzkurtz--Somebody knows humor when they read it and doesn't compare the sentiments of the majority to that of Communism, Radical Islam, The Pro-Slavery Economy... and JROSS lets not forget previous popular Movements that lost steam:

The Macarena
The Hokey-Pokey
The Boy Band Movement of the Late 1990's

JROSS
Before you attempt to shoot down my argument with previous social shortcomings of humanity try to remember when you are reading HUMOR and sarcasm

end of discussion...lets put the roy issue to rest
i love bill, ku, and buck nights at the royals Games

December 20, 2006 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Maybe the part where I get FUZZY is where you said that certain responses reflected the state of Jayhawk nation. No hint of humor in your statement whatsoever, and for that you can not blame an unsuspecting reader of your post.

Nonetheless, Im glad that you really dont feel that way. Id question your sanity otherwise...

December 20, 2006 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

notabandwagonfan (anonymous) says...

actually, roy has an all-time winning percentage of 76% at Ku. Self is currently at 75%. Both have never won a championship at KU. Say Self never gets better, because he wont get worse, he still has a winning percentage that is just as good as Roy's. Seems like a good idea to bash one man when you praise the other for the same thing! Give us all a break! And rock on to the Buck nights at Royals game! P.S. Gil Mesche for the A.L. Cy Young in 2007!!!!

December 20, 2006 at 3:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

BigTamale (anonymous) says...

"Gil Mesche for the A.L. Cy Young in 2007!!!!"

I'll do you one better...

Mike Sweeney will be on the Disabled List only Twice Next Year!!

Go Hawks and the "Lovable, Losing, Royals"!

(sorry, I got caught up in the moment)

December 20, 2006 at 3:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

argentinehawk (anonymous) says...

How do I appear to be a ksu fan jross?

December 20, 2006 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

BigTamale (anonymous) says...

You are a KSU fan Argentine because those who ACCUSE you can obviously see that KSU Apparel that you are wearing while you post messages and has nothing to do with them making absurd assumptions in an attempt to ridicule you...

I thought that would be obvious, Argentinehawk

I would have been more offended had "they" called a Mizzou Fan...or late for dinner!

December 20, 2006 at 3:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jcsmith (anonymous) says...

Heres an idea. Eveyone on here b*tching about our coaching, why dont you put your phuckin application in to coach the Jayhawks, since you all know so much more than Coach Self. I hate haters and b*tchers who constantly b*tch no matter what the outcome. Time for you all to lose your internet privileges. Sorry kids... revoked...

All though if you didnt have internet access, I would have to find something else to amuse myself. i love ignorance.

December 20, 2006 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

argentinehawk (anonymous) says...

You're right on that on Tamale, jross got me. Oh, and a question jross. Why do you have to have somebody else "beak" me, what's wrong, your "beak" isn't long enough to do it yourself?

December 20, 2006 at 3:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kickazzkurtz (anonymous) says...

Notabandwagon fan ......

according to http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/...

under team by team statistics Roy was 418-101 at KU for a 80.5% winning percentage.

December 20, 2006 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kansas1986 (anonymous) says...

I don't want to bash Roy, I like what he did while he was here, I like his character and attitude and I think he did what was best for him to go back to his roots. I'm just tired of people comparing him with Self, bashing Self and saying they wish Roy was still here. If they are rooting more for the coach than the school, then like I said in my previous post... root for N.C.

December 20, 2006 at 4:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kickazzkurtz (anonymous) says...

jcsmith I get the feeling that if I opened your refrigerater up I find some MU or UNC fan chopped up inside....you have some anger management problems......you manage to get angry every day.

December 20, 2006 at 4:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

bandwagon...WRONG!

Williams coached 15 seasons at Kansas (from 1988-2003). During that time he had a record of 418-101, a .805 winning percentage.

December 20, 2006 at 4:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

tsweat (anonymous) says...

bill self is the kind of coach that can coach crappy talent and make upsets happen by slowing down the game and playing great D. his style creates alot of close games and that is why he led oral roberts to the elite 8. that is also the reason we get upset so often. he needs to learn how to adjust a game plan when his isnt working. he will never be the game coach that roy was but he will always be just as good of a recruiter, if not better. that means more tease of great talent and let down of crapppy coaching

December 20, 2006 at 4:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

FlaHawk (anonymous) says...

Amazing that playing a teamthat might not even beat Washburnm PSU, ESU or FHSU is so trivial to inspire the Roy vs Bill rants.

The problem is not Roy or Bill it is playing teams that our last 4 might beat easily. Playing this level of opponent in December (they are a November opponent) is a waste of time. A good intersquad game would be more entertaining and useful to the Jayhawk Nation!

December 20, 2006 at 7:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

BabyJay5953 (anonymous) says...

As much as I love Kansas, I do agree with FlaHawk that they should not be playing such a mid major this late into the season. However, Roy Williams and Roy's boys are still playing the low mid majors as well.

I love KU, and the game of basketball at Kansas is amazing. The tradition of this basketball program cannot be beat, and can only be matched by a handful of other programs.

Roy Williams left KU for UNC, which is one of those few programs that can compare with ours. As angry as I used to be at him, I am no longer. He followed his dream, would none of us do the same? Now, Im no North Carolina fan, I still bleed crimson and blue, but I think it would be in everyones best interests to stop bashing Roy.

And stop bashing Bill, the man is the future to Kansas basketball. If you believe in him, at a place like KU, there is not limits for this young, incredible coach. Have faith in our Jayhawks, which includes our coach, our players, our staff, etc. This is Kansas, we are Kansas, and we should be proud.

December 20, 2006 at 7:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jimjones (anonymous) says...

I can't wait until Self is fired! Even the players are questioning his ability to coach.

December 20, 2006 at 8:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawk86 (anonymous) says...

did someone seriously say "playing such a mid major this late into the season"?
We are still a month away from conference play!
Who else is going to schedule a game with KU?

Get a clue!

I guess we could play emporia state, unc ashville and umkc in the month heading into the big 12 schedule as Roy did in 02-03.Or maybe umkc, princeton, south carolina state, north dakota, tulsa and valpo in 01-02 to lead into conference play. LOL

December 20, 2006 at 11:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jcsmith (anonymous) says...

kickazz

your so wrong. apparently you've never read any of my prior posts or you would know that I am a hardcore purified, dedicated KU fan. I live right here in lawrence for god sake. MU? UNC? are you freaking kidding me. I've never cheared for any other team but KU. I just know how to support the WHOLE team. Not just half. And Coach Self is apart of that team. I just get so damn tired of people complaining about when Coach Self is going to get fired. Even when KU plays up to their standards, and we win, people still insist that we need change. Typical bandwagon fans. Maybe you should all just stay on the porch and watch your flag blow, of the team thats playing well that week, and leave the real fan base to those that actually care to support a team all the time.

i hope this made since. After all, I am trying to control my anger management.... :I

December 20, 2006 at 11:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

p_riapism (anonymous) says...

Do you think that they'll fire Self and Mangino on the same day? Thet would certainly be an exciting day. They would probably have to call off classes the next day because of all the celebrating.

December 21, 2006 at 12:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

Just curious, Jim Jones: when KU wins a national championship under Self, will you still lead off the comments with asking who's going to replace him?

December 21, 2006 at 2:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kickazzkurtz (anonymous) says...

jcsmith....no your comment wasn't making sense....I didn't say you were NOT a dedicated KU fan....your post was just angry so I was joking and saying you probably have MU and UNC fans chopped up in your fridge, since being a KU fan you probably don't like those schools :)

December 21, 2006 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jayhawkintx (anonymous) says...

has anybody mentioned Roy's tournament loss to UCLA (7 vs. 2, I think, 1992 maybe), yet another debacle. and, also in favor of Self vs. Roy -- there's no crying in basketball!!!

December 21, 2006 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kickazzkurtz (anonymous) says...

Jayawkintx it was 1990 I don't think KU was a very big favorite if at all in that game. KU was down by one point and Hancock and every other KU player missed point blank tip backs and shots on the last possesion. Nothing Roy did wrong, just a close game and UCLA managed one more point.

December 21, 2006 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jayhawkintx (anonymous) says...

kickazzkurtz, many of the losses were close games, that was the problem; they shouldn't have been close. UCLA game was just another example of a highly seeded KU team with loads of talent falling early. just part of the pattern. i was tired of it and was glad to see roy go. wish Larry had never left (i think he does too), but in any event I like Self way better than Roy. it's too early to identify a KU tournament pattern for Self, but his pre-KU tournament history can't be ignored. let's give him a few years with his own recruits.

December 21, 2006 at 12:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kickazzkurtz (anonymous) says...

Hey jayhawkintx I like Bill Self alot and agree I think he can eventually do great things......I just don't agree that the 1990 team with Adonis Jordan as a sophomore and Darren Hancock, Mike Maddox and Mark Randall was that highly talented. I think Roy did a good job of getting them to overachieve. The next year they had more experience and started to have good teams year in and year out. They were a one seed in 92 and blew it but made the final four again in 93. Had a few okay years after that. The most disappointing years was 95 to 98, now that was talent that was wasted.

December 21, 2006 at 12:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Roy is awesome...

December 21, 2006 at 3:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Roysoldboy (anonymous) says...

Guys I get tired of the Bill and Roy bashing, comparisons and all that. I loved Roy as my user name may suggest and I taped every game the Hawks played under him except one that I couldn't get on TV. I still watch them at random and sometimes do get mad at him but the man did such a great job that how anybody can bash him is more than I can believe. For about a week after he left I was ready to join a kill Roy club but I realized that UNC had always been my favorite time next to the Hawks. Now I root for them every game and will continue to do so as long as Roy is there unless they are playing the Hawks. Then my allegiance has only one direction to go.

Self has had some great seasons at KU and will have many more. Why he can't be compared to only Bill Self is beyond him. He is our coach and deserves our support for that very reason.

I would like to comment on that "game" the other night. The greatest thing about it was that all the guards took the ball on the run as often as they could just like Hinrich used to do. I go back and watch the taped games just to watch Vaughan take off as fast as he could go and often beat the other people there. Miles played much that way, also and I stil love to see them running. With Self defense and that kind of immediate offense from the break this team can go a long way if Bill will just let them run. When you have three guards who can handle the ball the way these guys can, with the bigs who can run the floor things can get "hairy" for teams who don't have the numbers.

This is still going to be a great season. The mid-major defeats could be their only losses, in my estimation.

December 21, 2006 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

wtarush (anonymous) says...

I hope our team isn't reading this crap...

December 22, 2006 at 2:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

I am as tired as everyone else of the RW v. BS comparisons, but do want to point out one fact: I believe KU was actually a 1 seed and UCLA an 8 seed when the Bruins won in '90.

I loved RW when he was here and like BS at this point (hope to love him once he proves himself a little more). But it is ridiculous that the comparisons go on and on. Are we still going to be seeing this kind of stuff 10 years from now? Then again, the only thing more predictable than the fact that if the country is attacked there will be a huge number of innocent people scapegoated as enemies, is that whoever follows a legend will be branded a failure no matter what he or she does. (Yeah, it's a run-on sentence; sue me.)

December 22, 2006 at 12:57 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

seattlehawk_78 (anonymous) says...

If you really want to bash someone it should be Dean Smith. Not only did he turn down a job to coach his own alma mater, he got Roy to leave as well. Some loyalty. As someone pointed out in an earlier post, Roy reluctantly showed his ultimate loyalty and I don't know how anyone can be blamed for that.

That being said, I'm okay with Bill Self. We are still one of the top programs in the country. We're in the tournament every year, we're constantly ranked, we've beaten everybody at one time or another, final fours, All-Americans, yada, yada, yada. Roy didn't bring home the ultimate prize that would validate the last 18 years and neither has Bill, so we are right where Roy left off.

December 22, 2006 at 3:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kickazzkurtz (anonymous) says...

KU was a 2 seed in 1990 according to wikipedia.com

December 22, 2006 at 9:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

Thank you, kickazz, I stand corrected. On the other hand, wikipedia isn't perfect, as they list five NCAA finals as being decided by one point and neglect to include KU's loss to Indiana in 1953.

December 23, 2006 at 3:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

In case you double-check, you won't see the error, as I just corrected it.

December 23, 2006 at 3:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal )