Wednesday, July 24, 2013


Opinion: KU football at bottom of new pile


The Kansas University football team headed by Charlie Weis sits at the bottom of a pile. It’s a stinky place to be, all the way at the bottom of a pile that includes 63 teams. Alabama is at the top, Kansas at the bottom. It’s known as Division 4 college football.

It doesn’t exist yet, but the commissioners of the five powerhouse football conferences, plus Old Notre Dame, want it to form, breaking away from the NCAA with players getting paid.

Notre Dame remains an independent in football and the other 62 schools come from the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC.

Every school but one of the 62 has won at least three conference games in the past three seasons, known around here as the post-Mark Mangino era.

Kansas is 1-24 in Big 12 play during that time span, the lone victory a wild comeback against a Colorado team that had a big lead and kept passing instead of eating the clock. Why? Probably because the head coach wanted the quarterback, his son, to break the school career passing record.

Indiana ranks second from the bottom (3-21 in the Big Ten), followed by Washington State (4-23 in the Pac-12), Kentucky and Ole Miss (4-20 in the SEC), Duke (5-19 in the ACC) and Colorado (5-21 in the Big 12/Pac-12).

So why is everybody with even a passing interest in college football talking about the worst team in the best proposed division? Because its coach, Charlie Weis, referred to the product he put on the field a year ago as “a pile of crap.” (Remember, the plan calls for Division 4 players to get paid. What is the going rate for a … oh, never mind.)

Weis, as he has in the past, shared that he used those words in his sales pitch to recruits to entice them to come to Kansas for quicker playing time than they would get elsewhere in a power conference. The national media picks that up and now he’s not just talking to recruits in person, he’s talking to every potential recruit who watches TV. Some might think, “I don’t want to play for a coach who refers to his players in such demeaning language.” Others might think, “Hey, I can play right away there. Maybe I should go there on one of my five recruiting visits.”

Offensive? Sure. Ignored? Nope. He’s making Kansas football relevant. Keeping it on the radar will require winning more games, but when you’re in a place that stinks, at the bottom of a big pile, the quest for relevance must start somewhere.


ahpersecoachingexperience 9 years, 4 months ago

Yeah but do IU, ole miss, CU. and WSU have a bcs trophy in their display case? I know we've fallen hard (thanks Turner) but at least we've proven it can be done here.

Kyle Seiwert 9 years, 4 months ago

"Proven" is a little bit of a stretch. Similar to saying that the Hail Mary is a "proven" winning football play because it happened once. All it takes is for every other team in the conference to have a down season (KSU, NU, CU had their worst seasons in more than a decade in 2007), beat no teams with a winning record (best win was over 5-7 Ron Prince coached KSU), avoid playing the other good teams in the conference (Oklahoma and Texas), hope that the one good team that you play loses in the conference title game (Missouri did this against Oklahoma), and then have your AD buy a BCS bowl game appearance with a ticket purchase (Sweet Lew) to get matched up with the champion of the weakest conference in football (ACC). It is any real surprise that once Callahan and Prince were gone (two historically bad coaches in the conference annals), and the Big 12 cycled back to the good teams for Kansas out of the South, that Kansas has won exactly two conference games over the past four seasons? Did people forget that Mangino was coaching when Kansas went 1-7 in the Big 12 in 2009?

Micky Baker 9 years, 4 months ago

That was a pretty dumb post in regards to "avoiding playing Texas and Oklahoma". Kansas didn't have the option to play them that year. It's how the schedule was and Kansas didn't make it. However, Kansas was the only team in the nation that year with 12 wins including a win at Texas A&M, arguably the toughest place to win in the country for the visiting team and then Kansas was invited to the Orange Bowl and they won it.

Most memories aren't that short.

Kansas played at Stillwater and won, in College Station and won, in Manhattan and won. Now if they had went to the Orange Bowl and gotten beaten by 30 points by Virginia Tech, you'd have a point, but Kansas won the game and it was the only game on TV that night.

I am not going to say that it was the best team Kansas ever had because I think it was the 1995 team when Kansas, Kansas State, and Colorado all tied for 2nd in the Big 8. That year Kansas went to Colorado, rated number 2 in the country, and won and defeated Oklahoma in Norman on the Saturday Night prime time game after trailing 14-0 early on. Kansas would outscore Oklahoma after that 38-3. That 1995 team might have won the Big 12 Championship in 2007 which would have sent Kansas to the National Championship game.

This is not a knock on Reesing, Meier, Briscoe, Fields, Sharp, or the rest of the 2007 team. This is an acknowledgement that it was a down year for the Big 12 North teams, but they didn't have control over who they played in the South because of the rotation in a 12 team conference. Every other conference that large has to deal with it too. I just ask that you be intellectually honest when you make these arguments, which would mean not pretending like Kansas somehow intentionally didn't schedule Oklahoma or Texas in 2007.

Kevin Kelly 9 years, 4 months ago

Exactly. The Orange Bowl is the ACC Champion invitational. We beat the ACC Champ and came in a very close 3rd in our conference. It cannot be dismissed. Also....the same year we put up 76 on Nebraska in a game where our QB went 30 of 41 for 354 yards.

We were historical. Period.

jgoodvin 9 years, 4 months ago

Holy crap, dfy. That Orange Bowl trophy must keep you up at night--sweating, fuming, chewing your nails off.

Enjoy what happens to your program once Snyder retires.

KGphoto 9 years, 4 months ago

KU was in the hunt for a national title!

On the day of the last game of our regular season, the table was set.

If we had beaten Misery (lost by one possession in a game Webb missed two short field goals and Reesing was intercepted at the 2 yard line in the second quarter), we would play OU in the Big 12 championship. Beat OU and we were in the BCS title game against Ohio St., which we definitely could’ve won.

Two wins from a BCS title game, three from the title in ’08. That season was legit.

Some other notes from that season:

-KState may have been down, but they were ranked in the AP poll when we beat them in Manhattan. We were not.

-CU was just out of the top 25 when we beat them.

-If you think it was lucky we didn’t have to play Oklahoma, consider this. They lost to CU that season, and barely beat Iowa St., who we crushed. On average our season was very comparable with Oklahoma and Mizzy. Teams you would consider “legit” teams in ’07.

-On November 18th, the final week of the season, heading into the game vs. Missouri, KU was ranked #2 in every major poll including the BCS. Kansas was the consensus #2 team in the country. The coaches, the press, and the computers all agreed.

-Virginia Tech was the #3 BCS team before we beat them in the Orange Bowl, and they had a good argument to be in the title game that year.

Jeff Coffman 9 years, 4 months ago

So we are in the 64...that is all I need to know...

Michael Johnson 9 years, 4 months ago

Mangino ran this program into the ground. Not Turner Gill.

Ashwin Rao 9 years, 4 months ago

Agreed, and Turner Gill decided to dig some more so we were below the ground. I do see a lot of positive movement under the current coach.

Robert Brock 9 years, 4 months ago

Mangino brought some talent and toughness between the pathetic feeble bookends of Terry Allen and Turner Gill.

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

Lew Perkins ran this program in the ground in 3 ways. First, he completely botched the Mangino firing. I believe Mangino needed to go at that point because the team was already back on a downward trend, but that's a different argument for a different time. Second, he completely botched the hiring process. Getting Jim Harbaugh to agree to come to KU was a minor miracle in itself, but to not honor Harbaugh's request to coach Stanford in their bowl game that year was beyond stupid and KU was not in a position of power to demand stuff like that. Third, and biggest mistake of all Perkins made was giving Gill $2 million a year guaranteed. Gill's accomplishments at the time said he should have made about $1 million per year with a standard buy out clause, not a fully guaranteed contract. Yes, Gill made KU a joke on the field, but Perkins made KU a much bigger joke off the field.

Jim Jackson 9 years, 4 months ago

I think Harbaugh also wanted permission to speak to any NFL team that approached him. Nonetheless, would have been an amazing hire.

Linejudgemick 9 years, 4 months ago

This is absolutely correct and very often forgotten. Another factor that isn't always considered is that Perkins wanted to get a coach that would help him "build" his sky boxes. So, he created the circus that the team played in when they lost those games. Was that distraction the sole reason for the slide? Probably not, but you can't convince me it didn't at least a have a huge impact.. One fact is clear, Lew Perkins was largely, if not solely responsible for team's struggles the past 5 years.

Wisconsin2Kansas 9 years, 4 months ago

"First, he completely botched the Mangino firing." Right, because who gets fired now-a-days for calling their players the "n" word? Maybe you (being from Texas) think it is okay to call somebody the "n" word, but in regions above the South, it is not okay.

Ethan Berger 9 years, 4 months ago

First off, pretty sure he never said the N word. Would like for you to back that up with something. He said other horrid things, but never that bad. Second off, I know you live in a shell because of your Texas comment. First off, Texas is one of the most diverse states in the Nation. Don't believe me? Go down to Houston and drive around for 30 minutes. We will have more nationalities in a mile then you have ever seen. Texan is fiercely conservative but the vast majority don't have a racist bone in their body.

9 years, 4 months ago

If you have never been to Texas, how do you know it is a “waste land”? Was it the omniscient man who assisted with your tour of KU? Since it doesn’t sound like you will be visiting anytime soon, the rest of us Texas folks can at least take comfort in knowing one more misinformed narrow-minded person won’t be wasting our oxygen.

~ Cheers Y’All :-) ~

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

Thank you grammar Nazi for showing why a lot of southern people don't like northern people.

Chris Bailey 9 years, 4 months ago

I'm fine with that. Ted is a little radical but I've been called worse. He does a lot of good things for our former troops. Like I said I've been called worse. And if by Ted you mean conservative, gun owner and conceal carry holder as well. Yeah I fit that mold. But again, Ted does a lot of good things and donates time, money and talent to helping people. Not all bad. I didn't really mean to get political. I'm here for football! But I didn't start that Wisconsin did. :)

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

I'm assuming W2K made some kind of Ted Cruz Tea Party reference?

Chris Bailey 9 years, 4 months ago

No just hit a nerve. Sorry man. Didn't mean to go off.

9 years, 4 months ago

It appears instead of placing the usual “This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.” where the comments previously resided, they actually removed them from the thread. rxdoc1973 was responding to someone calling him Ted Nugent, and now they removed my response to W2K, making it look like I was responding to Hawk90 instead. Not sure why they started doing this recently. That used to only happen when they deleted the user’s account.

Chris Bailey 9 years, 4 months ago

Yeah that's weird man. At least we're on the same page with what it said.

Chris1955 9 years, 4 months ago

I live in Houston, Hawk90 is absolutely correct on all counts.

Ron Prichard 9 years, 4 months ago

I think if you reread his post he isn't saying Mangino shouldn't have been fired. He's just saying it could have been handled much, much better than it was.

Robert Brown 9 years, 4 months ago

Don't mess with Texas bud. I have lived all over the country, including New York and Chicago and nothing comes close to the integrated diversity of Houston. New York and Chicago are diverse, but there are ethnic enclaves that segregate the ethnic groups. Nothing wrong with that.

Houston doesn't have that. Go to a suburban area like Fort Bend County (which is similar socioeconomically to Johnson County ) and you find truly integrated neighborhoods.

Randy Bombardier 9 years, 4 months ago

I hadn't heard that one before. Can't believe he could be that stupid. And some morons were trying to say Weiss' comments about pile of crap put him in the same league with MM?

Micky Baker 9 years, 4 months ago

Are you kidding? I lived in Kansas most of my life and 6 years in Texas and I haven't seen anyone in Texas who is a racist, but saw plenty of that in Kansas.

vd 9 years, 4 months ago

You forgot 4 and 5. He built the new training and practice facilities. Had he spent this money on the dance team, we would have been able to attract more 5 star prospects 5) He got us in the Orange bowl. Had he gotten us in the Cotton or Alamo or Indpendence bowl, the fans travel expenses would have been less.

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

If Mangino ran it into the ground, then Gill shoveled the dirt in on top and tamped it down. Then poured concrete on it.

Chris Bailey 9 years, 4 months ago

Don't forget he placed a headstone on top of it!

Kevin Kelly 9 years, 4 months ago

If they left the NCAA then they could only play each other. They won't do it like that and they know it. Michigan State would never go to a bowl again because they would be in the bottom 1/3 of that group. Never mind what we does UCLA and Boston College feel about it?

They need the wins.....they need the guaranteed home games and the money it brings. Its a negotiating position and there is a reason that the Big 12 Comish said he hadn't met anyone who serious said they would fully leave.

CrystalJones 9 years, 4 months ago

This is how you embark on a "quest for relevance"?

Was the effect of the "pile of crap" comment a net positive or negative? From what I'm seeing, it was the latter. The local apologists are rationalizing it as "any publicity is good publicity," but that's just not true. We all want to think the best of our coach, but it wasn't good publicity; it was bad publicity.

Charlie was "brutally honest," but nationally it has been regarded as simply brutal, i.e., KU football was already seen as a bad program, but Charlie just strengthened that perception. In the eyes of the national media, the head coach just called his program, the very program that he manages, a pile of crap. It sounded like a desperate cry for attention. It sounded defeatist.

I really hope Charlie succeeds, and by that I'll just be happy to become a .500 program and get to a minor bowl every 3-4 years. But before that happens I'd rather our coach just shut his mouth, keep a low profile, get to work, and start doing the one thing that he hasn't done yet and the only thing that matters:

Starting winning games. That how you become "relevant."

dylans 9 years, 4 months ago

He said this years team has yet to play. But last years team at 1-11 is a huge, steaming, stinking, fly covered, peanut filled pile of crap.

KGphoto 9 years, 4 months ago

Could you be specific? How exactly will this negatively affect the program?

It sounds to me like you took it personally, and it hurts to hear some members of the press take shots at our coach/team.

News flash! They already were.

You don’t like the comment. Duly noted. But I think you are racing to conclusions over the negative issue. You are imagining the negative effects, but they don’t really exist. The media is blowing this up, which means there is no real negative. It’s just a show. A ride. It was a few words out of the coaches mouth, that have already been clearly explained and essentially put to bed by Charlie. The players understand it and you can be sure the potential recruits understand it by now, if they didn’t already.

However the positives DO exist already. We were the 1-11 team everybody was talking about at Big 12 media days. (That’s how boring the Big 12 media days are.) And when the “shock” of what Charlie said fades a little, they will still be talking about us, but it won’t be in such a fevered manor. It will turn into discussion about “Can Charlie back it up on the field?”, or something like that. Which, in turn, could lead to discussion about our recruits. About stealing the #1 JuCo prospect Marquel Combs, yanking Andrew Bolton away from LSU, the 2014 recruiting class, etc. That exposure, that publicity, would be extremely positive.

As a matter of fact I can only hope his statement stays warm long enough for all that to happen.

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

Did you know that most CFB fans and national media already mock Kansas football and deservedly so. Do you know what else Charlie's comments did? It got Kansas football national attention in July and every recruit in the nation heard KU's recruiting pitch. Some recruits I'm sure didn't like it (they weren't coming to KU anyway), some are indifferent to it (it just reaffirmed their view of KU they already had), and some will agree with Weis's point Weis made (KU did receive an oral commitment from a WR today).

Ludwig Supraphonic 9 years, 4 months ago

I understand some sportswriters, and more gentile media types with delicate sensibilities, may have a visceral reaction to crap. The players we recruit understand the molecular theory of olfaction and readily ingest and absorb this metaphor.

YoMomma 9 years, 4 months ago

Lew's incompetence and arrogance buried this program.

Chris Bailey 9 years, 4 months ago

He was just a 2-star and we were the biggest school recruiting him. Hardly a big win. I'm glad he's coming but a better measuring stick would be landing a kid other BCS schools were recruiting.

Gregor Southard 9 years, 4 months ago

Since some people decided to blast the Orange Bowl winners, and amazingly some are still trying to say Mangino drove the program into the ground, first off, 5-7 is not driving a team into the ground, and second, that 5-7 team was about five plays away from being 10-2. If someone other than Bowen was the DC that year, well

KGphoto 9 years, 4 months ago

It wasn’t the final record, it was that we lost our final 7 games. We unraveled. And no, we weren’t about 5 plays from 10 wins. We were shellacked by Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Texas, and we didn’t really have a chance against K-State.

You could argue that we were a couple plays from beating Misery in the final game and going to a bowl, but that’s about it.

I don’t totally blame anybody in particular for the Mangino fall from grace. I think it was a mix. Mangino should’ve behaved better, Lew should’ve handled it better.

Most importantly, Reesing shouldn’t have strained his groin. After that injury, he was a shell of himself. That was the beginning of the end of that season, and it further inflamed any problems the team was having with Mangino to begin with.

Wisconsin2Kansas 9 years, 4 months ago

Why are so many people confident that Charlie Weis is going to revive our school's football program? Did people forget about his five years at Notre Dame, or do most of you just chose to ignore those five years? If you're Notre Dame, what was more embarrassing, your football team, or your head coach, because, honestly, both sucked.

The only thing Weis was good at while at Notre Dame was running his mouth. Like when he said, "Notre Dame would not lose to Michigan State on his watch," yet had a losing record against the Spartans in his five years at Notre Dame.

Let's not forget the below-average seasons Weis had at Notre Dame with a roster filled with four and five star recruits. It was not like Notre Dame was playing an extremely difficult schedule those seasons, either. And when they did play difficult teams, such as Penn State and USC, Notre Dame, rarely, contended in those games.

I realize KU needs a coach to rejuvenate our program, but, like Notre Dame, Charlie Weis will not be that coach. Two years from now, Weis, in my opinion, will be placed in the same category as most of you are placing Turner Gill.

kellerman411 9 years, 4 months ago

What a fool. Yes, Charlie's 5 years at Notre Dame. You must be talking about the 5 years in which he went to two BCS bowls and finished with an overall record right near 500. This is KU football, bud. Charlie is the best coach KU has ever had and it's not close. If you're expecting to consistently win the Big 12, you'll be disappointed. If you're expecting to compete year after year in a way that KU has never been able to, I think you'll be satisfied.

Wisconsin2Kansas 9 years, 4 months ago

Hey, kellerman411, how'd those two BCS bowls go for Weis and Notre Dame?

Also, it is obvious you're fine with KU being mediocre (at best) during the Charlie Weis era.

kellerman411 9 years, 4 months ago

I could Google it if I cared but I believe he won 1 and lost the other. I'm sorry that KU couldn't hire a coach with a better record than 500 in BCS bowls. Jesus, get a life.

KGphoto 9 years, 4 months ago

And Weis haters always forget he inherited the prestigious program, while it was on a 7 bowl losing streak. Weis produced ND’s highest final season ranking (#9) in 12 years, dating back to Lou Holtz.

He did struggle after he (all at once) lost the recruits he inherited. He struggled with the transition, but he has also said many times that he recognizes the mistakes he made and has addressed them. We will see, but you can’t call him a complete failure based off of two bad seasons at the already struggling university.

And don’t forget what he’s already done to clean up the program. The academics. The conduct of the team. Those things are extremely valuable to most of the KU faithful. They are extremely valuable to the university as a whole.

Jeff Coffman 9 years, 4 months ago

Very well addition he improved conditioning. His recruiting has been above what we have seen at KU as well. There have been other recruits that have been on SEC and Big XII lists that have selected KU, this has been a rare feat in recent years.

ahpersecoachingexperience 9 years, 4 months ago

And we know what a juggernaut ND football was before and since Charlie's time there!

Ryan Gerstner 9 years, 4 months ago

If Weis does at KU what he did at Notre Dame, we'll build a statue for him. Weis was the best coach they had from Lou Holtz to him. Why do you think they gave him a lifetime contract or whatever ridiculous amount of money that it was? While ND has some nice things to work with, they also have their limitations. Academics, not being able to recruit jucos, etc. Weis' offenses were always good, the defenses - not so much.

As far as Weis at KU, all you have to do is look at year one. No QB and no placekicker and he nearly wins 6 games. Yeah, the team was 1-11, but 1-11 teams typically get annihilated in every facet of the game. That wasn't the case with KU. That's how KU takes a Texas, an OSU (preseason favorite to win league), and Tech down to the last play of the game. At some point you have to start winning games, but step 1 is changing the culture. Mangino, for example, was 2-10 in year 1 with only 1 loss within a TD (compared to 5 last year). Year 2, KU goes bowling and finishes 6-7. KU will show significant improvement in year 2. If you were watching last year, you would have seen significant improvement (except on the scoreboard). Weis is changing the culture. There's a fine line between winning and losing, and when you change the culture, that's how you start turning those close games into wins.

Jeff Coffman 9 years, 4 months ago

If the team wins the first three games this year he will have accomplished more.

In addition, you forgot to remove the SDSU fiasco.

JayHawkFanToo 9 years, 4 months ago

Many posters seem to delight in bashing Lew Perkins and blame him for all of KU problems. Lets look at his biggest achievements and failures in perspective and then judge the man.

The good:

  1. Perkins just about doubled the athletic budget and brought it yelling and screaming into the 21st century. Yes, he antagonized some fans, particularly basketball, in the process, but he got KU to do what most other schools were already doing; run the program as business and not as a hobby. He also negotiated the biggest sports contracts ever at KU. The additional revenue paid for all the facility improvements that we are so proud and that help recruit better athletes; look up the list, it is very impressive Time magazine selected him one of the to sports administrators in the world; the only collegiate executive in the list.

  2. Without Perkin KU does not go to the Orange Bowl, period.

  3. Andrea Hudy. The gift that keeps on giving, enough said.

The bad:

  1. Hiring Turner Gill. I cannot understand why one would hire a mid major coach with a consistent losing record and only one decent season, and would expect him to win consistently at a BCS program. On top, you give him an outrageously high contract with a buy out clause that must have been written by the coach's attorney and not by the university. The KC Chiefs did the same thing hiring Romeo Crennel, a coach with a consistently losing record and only one winning season. I guess the pros are equally as bad a collegiate executives when judging coaching talent.

  2. Firing Mangino. I am not going to say whether Mangino should have not been fired, but sometimes is not what you do but how you do it, and his firing was handled poorly and unprofessionally. Mangino deserved better than what he got, and I don't think he took any solace seeing the program completely crumble under Gill.

  3. The ticket/gift scandal. Since it happened under his watch , he takes the blame whether he deserved it or not.

When you look at the entire picture in context, IMHO the good outweighs the bad; I am sure other posters will disagree.

KGphoto 9 years, 4 months ago

Well done. That’s pretty much it, right there. He brought many good things to KU. He did the same at UConn before that. And he made some iffy calls too.

One thing to remember about the Gill hiring though, is that he didn’t just “have one good season” at Buffalo. He had 3 consecutive improvements from 2006 to 2008 culminating in a MAC championship over #12 Ball St. Prior to his arrival in Buffalo, they had 10 wins (7 conference) in 7 seasons in the MAC.

In 2007 it was down to Gill and Callahan for head coach at Nebraska, and in 2008 he was snubbed at Auburn. Kansas isn’t exactly Nebraska or Auburn when it comes to coaching destinations, I think you’ll agree.

I’m glad Gill is gone. But it’s hard to say it was such a terrible hire at the time. Who else was out there? Harbaugh had no recruiting ties and would’ve been making a lateral, if not backward move. Even then he would’ve bolted to the NFL after a year or two. Edsall also lacked recruiting ties. Sumlin had no HC experience. Fedora had taken a team with 14 consecutive winning seasons, and basically stayed the course. No real improvement until 2011.

I’m just saying. At the time it was more difficult to gauge. Easy to bash the hire, but who really had the answer back in 2010?

JayHawkFanToo 9 years, 4 months ago

Turner Gill record as HC before KU:

2006 - 2-10

2007 - 5-7

2008 - 8-6

2009 - 5-7

Like I said, he had one winning season at a mid-major program before coming to KU. As far as interviewing for other head coaching positions, Nebraska had to interview him as he was one the better know players from Nebraska, and the other schools, let's face it, at the risk of sounding "politically incorrect," were under the gun by the NCAA to interview minority candidates, of which he was one of the bigger names. Many think that KU cannot get a big name coach; the hiring of HC Weis proves otherwise.

At the time, I don't recall many KU fans being existed about hiring Gill, I would guess that the majority of fans thought that with the money available KU could do much better. To this day I believe that Gill would have come to KU for $1M a year. I thought at the time that he was overpaid for what he brought to the table; now, I don't think he was just overpaid, I believe he was grossly overpaid.

Larry Smith 9 years, 4 months ago

The 4 years at Buffalo prior to Gill

2005 - 1-10

2004 - 2-9

2003 - 1-11

2002 - 1-11

He took the worst team in college football and made them competitive. I'm not defending his time here at Kansas, But I think that a lot of people were impressed with what he had done, and as KG stated, maybe it wasn't that bad of a hire at the time.

average 9 years, 4 months ago

"Impressed with what he had done" enough to consider Gill as a longshot candidate... possibly hire him? Sure. "Impressed with what he had done" enough to give him one of the 10-15 best overall (length of guarantees, etc) contracts in all of BCS football? Ludicrous.

Jeff Coffman 9 years, 4 months ago

Unfortunately a lot of people judge personnel on their worse moments and not their best moments. In the sports world it seems even amplified.

Perkins probably did more for this program then anyone has in several years, but in the same breathe people seem to focus on his negatives. The Orange Bowl was clearly his doing and he should be commended. Everyone blames him for the failure with Roy Williams as well, and I shake my head on some of those thoughts.

ahpersecoachingexperience 9 years, 4 months ago

You forget he beat Boon Pickens away with a stick when he came calling for HCBS to return to OSU

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Bill Self is way too smart to turn down the best, most sought after job in all of college basketball for money. He's making plenty right now anyway.

jgkojak 9 years, 4 months ago

If those 63 teams break away, they will have to allow other to join -

BYU and Navy would certainly have to be included for multiple reasons. Other teams with recent success (Boise St, even Cinci) would be hard to keep out as well -

So it will probably end up being the American Athletic and Mtn West which get to the party as well.

Robert Brown 9 years, 4 months ago

I was at the Orange Bowl and it was great but that win doesn't make up for the downward spirial that has followed. The next year, we were a last second Reesing to Meier TD pass from being 6-6. 2008 was a disappointment. 2009 was supposed to be better as we were ranked for the first part of the season, but turned into a disaster.

I would trade the Orange Bowl win for more sustained success. I understand that the stars aligned just right to get us to the Orange Bowl- weak schedule, back room dealing with the Bowl committee, etc. As long as we have a round robin schedule, that won't happen again.

We look at the Mangino era with a revisionist slant, all because of the 2007 season. In his other seasons, he never had a winning conference record and the three other bowls we went to were all very low in the Big 12 pecking order. Two bowls were played before Christmas and the Insight Bowl the 6th of 7th at best. Mangino elevated the program from 11th or 12th in the Big 12 to maybe 7th or 8th.

CrystalJones 9 years, 4 months ago

Hard to disagree with anything you said there. We love to talk about the Orange Bowl win, but I'd take 5 consecutive years of just getting to a bowl, even if we lost them all, over a single OB win.

Same with a conference championship. 1 Big 12 Championship > BCS bowl win...especially, as you said, one that took a lot of "back room dealing with the Bowl committee." The next time we go to one of the big-time bowls, let's get there because we automatically qualified for it.

Bob Bailey 9 years, 4 months ago

KGphoto was quite right. The problem with our 7 losses was the QB injury. He should have taken an 'injury' year off. All would have been well the next year

Mangino was too concerned about his 'coaching image'. He made a lot of mistakes, but they alone perhaps would have been unworthy of getting fired. Had he bit a bit more of a person, he might still be here with KU doing pretty well. Maybe the Orange Bowl got to his head.

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

How does Reesing get another season if Mangino had played Kerry Meier (#2 QB on the depth chart) or Tyler Lawrence that season and Reesing had already played more than the 10% or less of plays to be eligible for a medical redshirt so Todd Reesing was not playing for KU under any circumstances in 2010.

Page Butler 9 years, 4 months ago

Hey at least basketball season starts soon. October 4th is Late Night. Can't wait.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 9 years, 4 months ago

My only observation is a simple one. You anly have to open the sprots page on this newspaper to get some idea..

Almost weekly there is an article or two on the latest one-year wonder that is considering the KU Basketball Academy for the NBA. Not much ink for the team that must go on the field to face the football powerhouses like Texas, Olkahoma, and Oklahoma State..

It would seem to me that an equal devotion the support the program might make a difference in the results that have put KU football in the depths of despair for the past milennia.

CrystalJones 9 years, 4 months ago

What makes it even worse is that, in addition to the powerhouses that you mentioned, we're 4-16 against those hayseeds to the west over the past 20 years. We won an Orange Bowl, but they've won division and conference championships. That's what sends me into the "depths of despair."

jrfjosh 9 years, 4 months ago

I believe 3 of those 4 wins in the last 20 years were against Ron Prince's team. I am sure Snyder will retire long before KU beats K-State again.

Randy Bombardier 9 years, 4 months ago

The day they start paying college football players is the day I stop caring, stop following and stop watching. Doesn't anyone see that this is just getting the nose of the camel in the tent? Eventually the whole thing will be an auction and guess who wins? Guess who loses?

actorman 9 years, 4 months ago

I assume you mean the day they start paying them above board? They've been paying them since college football started.

Ryan Gerstner 9 years, 4 months ago

Nice revisionist history Tom. I'd expect as much from a CU fan, but not from a KU writer that was at the game. The KU comeback against CU didn't happen because CU was chucking the ball over the field. CU literally ran 4-6 plays between KU being down 28 and KU tying the game up. They turned the ball over and KU scored fast.

actorman 9 years, 4 months ago

I would bet you that 90% of the so-called "basketball only" crowd are just being fair-weather fans. I think most of them would become football fans as well if KU had any kind of consistent winning program. It's definitely difficult at times to continue to have faith in football, given all the stops and starts over the years.

As for the non-revenue sports, they don't get enough support from anyone, not just "basketball only" people.

mikehawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Please, Charlie, give us a small pile of crap on the field this year!

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