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Tuesday, May 17, 2016

Why Bill Self doesn’t pay Kansas taxes on about 90 percent of his earnings

Kansas head coach Bill Self applauds the Jayhawks as they widen their lead during the second half on Saturday, March 19, 2016 at Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines.

Kansas head coach Bill Self applauds the Jayhawks as they widen their lead during the second half on Saturday, March 19, 2016 at Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines.

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Bill Self’s taxes — or more specifically, the lack of taxes he pays — are drawing attention after a report highlighted that the Kansas University men’s basketball coach is legally avoiding state taxes on about 90 percent of his annual earnings.

A report by public radio station KCUR noted that Self for years has had the bulk of his compensation paid into a limited liability company. Since 2012, that arrangement has become a tax perk, as Gov. Sam Brownback and the Kansas Legislature approved a new tax law that exempts Kansas income taxes on LLCs and other pass-through businesses. In total, about 334,000 Kansas business are receiving the tax break.

While the practice is legal, it has been the subject of some disagreement.

Self is generally considered the highest paid state employee in Kansas, although his compensation is paid with private dollars. KU, of course, is a public institution that relies on tax dollars for a portion of its funding.

“I like Bill Self,” Kansas Senate Minority Leader Anthony Hensley, of Topeka, told KCUR. “He’s a great coach. KU people, obviously, like him very much. But it’s bad policy when you’ve got the highest paid state employee in the state not paying any income taxes into the state of Kansas.”

In response, KU officials differentiated between employees of the university and employees of Kansas Athletics Inc., a not-for-profit corporation affiliated with KU.

Self is one of three KU coaches partially compensated through an LLC, university spokesman Joe Monaco said. He said head football coach David Beaty and women’s basketball coach Brandon Schneider have similar arrangements.

All KU coaches are employed by and paid from operating revenue of Kansas Athletics, Monaco said. He said paying some of coaches’ compensation to LLCs was not unusual among peers.

“Generally speaking, this is done in light of the tremendous amount of educational, public relations, and promotional duties those coaches are assigned by the athletics director that fall outside their normal coaching responsibilities,” Monaco said. “This is common practice nationally among universities and their football and basketball coaches.”

Self formed his LLC — called BCLT II LLC — long before Brownback and the Legislature approved the tax cuts. According to documents on file with the Kansas Secretary of State’s office, BCLT II LLC was organized in 2000 in Illinois, when Self was coach at University of Illinois, and registered in Kansas in 2003, the year he was named head coach at KU.

The tax breaks Self has received from the change in law, though, have been significant.

Self earns a base salary of $230,000 per year, according to a contract extension he and KU agreed upon in 2012.

In addition, Kansas Athletics pays Self’s LLC a minimum of $2.75 million per year for “professional services” rendered by the coach, according to the contract. Those services may include “educational, public relations and promotional duties” as assigned by the athletics director. The payments began in 2012 and are set to continue through 2022, under the contract.

Before Brownback signed the tax cuts into law, the top tax bracket was 6.45 percent. At that rate, Self would have owed up to $177,375 annually in Kansas income taxes. Even under the current reduced top rate of 4.6 percent, he’d have owed up to $126,500, according to KCUR.

Beaty receives a salary of $225,000 a year and “not less than” $575,000 annually through his LLC, DB Sports LLC, for “multimedia activities and services," according to KCUR. Records with the Kansas Secretary of State’s office show DB Sports LLC was formed in March 2015, days before Beaty signed his multimedia services agreement with KU.

Information about Schneider’s LLC was not readily available Tuesday, as his name is not listed as a resident agent of any company in the Secretary of State’s business entity database.

The KCUR report noted that Kansas State University football coach Bill Snyder gets paid $1.22 million through a separate corporation, SSM Inc. But it was unclear, the report said, whether that portion of Snyder’s pay is subject to Kansas income tax.

Wichita State University men’s basketball head coach Gregg Marshall and K-State men’s basketball coach Bruce Weber earn $3 million and $1.9 million per year, respectively, but neither gets paid additional money through an LLC or pass-through business and presumably pay state income taxes on their salaries, according to KCUR’s report.

Some lawmakers said the information didn’t change their opinion about the value of the tax law changes.

“The overall tax strategy is to lower taxes and have a way to stimulate the economy,” Rep. Ron Ryckman Jr., a Republican from Olathe who chairs the House Appropriations committee, told KCUR.

“We are very fortunate to have Bill Self as the coach at KU and not the head coach of the Oklahoma Thunder,” he said. “I don’t know his motivation for staying, but I do know that tax policy does drive decisions.”

— Journal-World reporter Sara Shepherd and the Associated Press contributed to this story.

Comments

Freddie Garza 1 year ago

I have to tell you, I couldn't care less. I, for one, feel like it should be the goal of every American to reduce their tax liability by as much as legally possible. I understand this is a state tax issue, but when you watch these corrupt politicians waste upwards of $150 Billion every year on utter nonsense, or spending $600 million on a website that barely works, it's kind of hard to get upset with guys like Bill Self for taking advantage of whatever loopholes he can.

David Brown 1 year ago

"it should be the goal of every American to reduce their tax liability by as much as legally possible." Agree 100%. It is certainly my goal, but always done legally. Legally is how Coach Self has done it too. Unhappy? Check with Topeka....we voted them into office!

Martin Rosenblum 1 year ago

Whatever he earns, he deserves. Taxes on his compensation being paid fully or otherwise are not going to cause the State of Kansas to skip a beat regardless if he IS the highest paid "State employee" as he is being referred to. Whether it is 126,500 or 177,375 as calculated that would have been payable per year, the State has surely enjoyed benefits of a significant nature for the success due to Self in revenues within the State.

Hopefully, this scrutiny will not be allowed to snowball into anything that remotely colors the reputation and respect that Self has earned by his leadership at KU. His charitable endeavors are truly inspiring and need to be considered whenever conversations such as this are begun for whatever the motivation is.

Josiah Berry 1 year ago

This isn't a matter of Self not deserving the money. Its a matter of him receiving nearly $4 million in income in the state of Kansas and only being taxed on 14% of this income.

Now I'm not blaming Bill Self here, or the many others who utilize LLCs for asset protection. There are several legitimate reasons to use LLCs, such as asset protection against law suits. To me, this article speaks greater of the problem Brownback has created through this awful LLC tax loophole that 330,000 LLCs have taken advantage of. Sure Self by himself is a drop in the hat but those 330k tax differentials add up.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Bill Self is paying the exact same amount in taxes as before. His total tax burden did not change because of this law.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

Micky, I apologize for posting this twice, but my response to you got buried below.

This article is specifically talking about Kansas State Income tax.

You're implying that taxable income in Kansas is computed the same as for Federal income tax, and that is not correct. On the K-40, Line 1 comes from the Federal return (there's the Federal computation). Line 2 basically wipes away any business income left after completing Schedule S. This is the tax law change that wage-earning people are complaining about.

An overly simple version of Self's return would have $2.98 million on line one (total of his salary of $230,000 and his minimum $2.75Million from the KU Athletics to his LLC) that is taxable by FED. Then, after completing the Schedule S, he'd have negative $2.75m to put on line 2 and an adjusted amount of $230,000 on line three. Line three is the STATE taxable income. He'd pay about $10,300 on that instead of $138,000 on his entire compensation.

Gregg Marshall, on the other hand (no LLC), would have to pay STATE and FED income tax on the entire $3 Million. So he pays the full $138K while Bill pays $10K. (LOL) Sure, Marshall can deduct that from his gross federal income, saving himself about $50K. However, it's not an equal burden, and that doesn't help Kansas any.

Obviously there are a other zillion other tax credits and ways to minimize tax liability, but this is basically how the grift works as it pertains to the new Kansas law, and that's what this article is about.

http://www.ksrevenue.org/pdf/k-4015.pdf http://www.ksrevenue.org/pdf/schs15.pdf

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Yes, I get it Jay Reynolds. So, if a local municipality in Kansas needs more funding, they can raise taxes on LLCs, S-Corps, etc. in their communities only for the monies needed. Then the local elected city councils, mayors, and school boards would be accountable for the appropriations and fiduciary responsibilities. This is not a big deal.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

Negatory on your gibberish. Hang in there, man. Your world seems to be crumbling.

Pius Waldman 1 year ago

Self has been at the NBA draft in the past. Does he plan to go this year and cheer his former players when their names are called.

Michael Kort 1 year ago

Being an LLC is a way for a person to protect their wealth from a law suits judgement, against themselves for their professional services provided .

It was an asset protection stratagem long before brownie crown LLCs with state tax exempt status .

Brownie is just played to the 330,000 LLCs who are usually people who have assets to protect,.....and cash to donate politically . DUHH ?

Self should not be made a poster boy for LLCs tax loophole...........the Brownback political donation buying scheme .

Self is just protecting himself from the fact that people could sue him if injured playing basketball under himself as their coach, etc., and he is not exactly a poor person, that some inter-prizing person wouldn't sue .

Brownie is the "Tax Fairy" with a motive in this picture ( if people want to complain ) and he is playing to a audience of 330,000 LLC votes .

It is honorable to support charities and plenty of people who make good money that is totally taxed, sooner or later, deduct their personal charitable contributions from their personal federal and state income taxes, else where .

Some aren't rich and don't get publicity for their gifts or time but maybe they don't have to waive the flag as people in sports, politics, the media, the movies, recording artists ( and on and on ) have to do, as part of being public .

As an example, everyone of the Royals and Chiefs pay 1% KCMO earnings tax and they still support charities all over the place .

Does Missouri exempt LLCs tax wise ?

The issue is about brownie pandering to the LLCs at the expense of he states budget, children that are poor, education ( like KU ) and K thru 12 .

It is unfortunate that self was pointed out when he is a highly targetable person for a law suit., just trying to protect himself legally, who was just crowned tax wise with a whole group of people because he happened to exist as an LLC .

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Tin Cap, remove it and the electrodes connected to the battery.

Dirk Medema 1 year ago

Whether Coach Self has an LLC is really rather minor. The bigger problem is that there are hosts of tax laws like this that protect the elite, thereby further separating the 1% while laying the burden of supporting the nation on the middle class.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

If you really think that rich people don't pay the vast majority of taxes in this country you're a total fool.

Chip Chipperson 1 year ago

Income taxes close to half, but all taxes nope. I wouldn't call 27% a vast majority. When the wealthy pay less percent to tax than I do (200k dual income family) something is wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/oct/26/jeb-bush/jeb-bush-says-top-1-percent-pay-nearly-half-all-ta/

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Chip, don't be an idiot pawn. The top 5% of earners pay far more federal taxes than everyone else combined.

Adding in sales taxes, property taxes etc is a fools game. Would you prefer to rent your home and have less purchasing power?

Chip Chipperson 1 year ago

Jay, don't be an idiot. We are talking per the original conversation "hosts of tax laws like this that protect the elite, thereby further separating the 1%".

Your comment "Chip, don't be an idiot pawn. The top 5% of earners"

We are not talking about the top 5%, I'm near the 5% line. I'm paying a higher percentage of my income as taxes than your dumb dumb idols like Mitt Romney and Donald Trump.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Isn't it funny how everyone ranting about taxes being too low in an anonymous forum claims to be a rich guy and knows who everyone else's idols are?

Chippy. You're a joke.

Chip Chipperson 1 year ago

I'm not a rich guy. Rich guys aren't borderline top 5%. Rich guys are the ones who write my check, write laws, donate millions to superpac's. My fam is comfortable, I don't have an llc or stock options like your idols who you look up to and think you will become one one day. Sure, that'll happen.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

I actually have an LLC and stock options...

Many Americans have at least one.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Protecting LLCs(they're not all owned by the elite, in fact, the overwhelming majority of the owners are not wealthy). You're just shooting yourself in the foot.

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

If you're paying more taxes than the top 10 percenters there is something wrong. Higher a better tax accountant. That probably sounds flippant and I apologize for that but if we are talking strictly federal tax dollars the top 10% paid more than the bottom 90%.

Chip Chipperson 1 year ago

I have a normal job with a large company. They pay me x amount of dollars per year. I have no side business, it's straight income. Could some accountant let me write off income somehow that I don't know about. I don't get fancy stock options or income that is hidden as options or grants that get taxed at a lower rate. Sorry, I'm not hiring an accountant for a few thousand not to save me any money.

"but if we are talking strictly federal tax dollars the top 10% paid more than the bottom 90%."

We are not talking about the top 10%, stop changing the subject. Clearly it says the top 1%.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

But Chippy...you said you were in the top 5%. You're a rich guy. You're making $200k. An accountant on a straightforward salary would charge only a few hundred dollars.

Chippy. You're making up stories, aren't you?

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

Chipper just joined us today Jay. Play nice while he catches up. : ) Big smiley face just for you Chipper.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Another Brett McCabe foray into the surreal....

Chip Chipperson 1 year ago

What's the point of paying an accountant $200 when I can do the same thing for less. You can't deduct salary from a large company thru an LLC by giving an accountant $200. Feeling awful tardy today aren't you?

Jay Scott 1 year ago

I see... You make 200k...know so much about the tax code that you don't need to pay a few hundred bucks to make sure you're paying the correct taxes, but you don't have a clue how taxes actually get paid in America... And you pay more than people in higher brackets... Even though you're an expert....

Are you married to Morgan Fairchild by any chance?

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

Cippy, remember this?

"We are talking about the top 1%. 1 and 10 are not the same numbers"

You're a friggin tool...

Chip Chipperson 1 year ago

Yuck, a military/school teacher. You must be a genius, a had a few of them types of teachers in my high school. All a bunch of dumb dumbs, Couldn't make your own way huh? So you just leeched off the government

Jay Scott 1 year ago

It takes real liberal lowlife scum to call someone from the military a leech.

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

N.O.R.M.A.L. covers quite a huge area in today's world. Do you use the words "girlfriend experience" when describing your job.

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

A big welcome to the conversation Chipper! User from May 18th 2016. Why the need for the alternative ID?

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

Completely agree Micky. A flat tax is the best way to go. Get rid of all the tax loopholes and charge everyone a fair amount directly from their wages or investments/capital gains etc..

Armen Kurdian 1 year ago

You are right, and 45% of individuals pay no income tax. Far be it from me to be on the other side of this issue, but thought legal, I don't think the optics are good here. To quote Scotty from Star Trek III, "The more they take up the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." If the tax code were simpler, more straightforward, things like this would not happen.

I don't know if we will see real, genuine tax reform in my lifetime. I'm pessimistic. I do believe that a simpler tax code, with almost no loopholes, something straightforward and easy to understand and plan for would be good for this country.

Bryce Landon 1 year ago

As I said below, if we repealed the 16th amendment and either had no income tax at all or required everyone to pay the same percentage of income tax - say, 5% for all persons regardless of income level - it would be more fair to everyone.

Dirk Medema 1 year ago

I have no info on that (who is rich and how much they pay relative to everyone else), which is why I wouldn't and didn't comment on that, not that it would stop you from creating something negative to flame about.

So true to your spots.

Ironically, what I was saying isn't terribly different than the post much later that you laud and almost as brilliant as your own.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

You did a better job of calling your own comment garbage than I did. Nice.

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

The top 10 percenters pay 53.3% of all federal taxes.

Chip Chipperson 1 year ago

We are talking about the top 1%. 1 and 10 are not the same numbers.

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

What are you smoking or do you have difficulties with numbers Chipper?

1 Percenters Pay 24 Percent and Top 10 Percent Pay 53.3 Percent of All Federal Taxes

http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/curtis-dubay/1-percenters-pay-24-percent-and-top-10-percent-pay-533-percent-all-federal

Need another source Chipper?

http://dailysignal.com/2014/11/13/richest-1-percent-americans-pay-24-percent-federal-taxes/

Chip Chipperson 1 year ago

I was originally talking about 1% not paying the majority of taxes, you brought up the top 10%. 1 and 10 are not the same. You are starting up a 2nd argument to a point that nobody is making.

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

Maybe YOU were but the several others brought up other numbers as well.

Chippy "We are not talking about the top 5%"

Who made you the arbiter over which numbers and percentages are allowed into the conversation?

As for your remark towards service in the military, I'm sorry that you weren't capable of making it through boot camp. No big deal... It's not for everyone. For some people, working through stressful conditions is not something they are capable of doing.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

You do know that it is not Constitutional to target the top 1% for specific laws right? Bill of Attainder are not Constitutional at the state or federal level.

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

Unfortunately Micky, the press, politicians and special interest groups love to target the group that has helped employ more workers than any other employer with the possible exception of the federal government.

I remember a time period when you had the choice of working for the government at a lower salary but receiving other benefits such as retirement, healthcare and a stable income.

Those that decided to work in the private sector forgo the benefits above in the hope of higher salaries, being your own employer and having the possibility of getting wealthy from one's own work.

That line is now so blurred that it's impossible to see any longer.

Steve Jacob 1 year ago

You guys are being nice. If this was Weber at KSU you would be all over this.

Damian Glaze 1 year ago

It would never be Weber in this situation because he isn't that smart of a guy.

Carter Patterson 1 year ago

LLCs still pay taxes. They may defer some income and thus pay taxes later, they may also have expenses which are legally deducted. Implement the FairTax nationwide and this is really a non-issue.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

No, LLCs do not pay Kansas state income tax. If I earn 100K/year as a sole proprietor/LLC, I pay zero state income tax. A guy getting a paycheck with the same taxable income from his salary pays $4,315.

I'm a sole proprietor and it boggles my mind how few people understand what a screw job this is to the majority of working people.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

An LLC is a pass through. Somebody has to pay taxes on the income. If you claim that no taxes are being paid on your LLC income that you own then either you're about to get a big tax surprise, your business loses money or you're just lying.

You don't own a business, do you? You're just parroting liberal lies.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

You would think that, and you would be wrong.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

I own a business. I actually live this in real life. I only wish that your liberal envy was based in some reality.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

Is your business located in Kansas?

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Dude. You need to take a break. You're making a complete fool of yourself.

Rae Bricil 1 year ago

not true with the new law there is a tax exemption for pass-through businesses and therefore they are not paying taxes. I don't think anyone is mad about Self but rather the law in general.

It was meant to stimulate business but instead a lot of these LLCs are simply single people that now do not have to pay taxes like people earning a wage through a corporate job.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Angry and ignorant is no way to go through life.

If this were true every employee above a certain income point would beg to become an independent contractor and pay no taxes.

Every law firm, accounting firm, talent agency, surgeon etc etc etc would move to Kansas.

Don't be stupid.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

"If this were true.."

LOL

You're catching on. I AM an independent contractor and pay no state income tax.

If you're a Kansan, your inability to believe reality explains how this law got passed in the first place. Thanks, sucker!

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Reynolds, Jay Scott is correct. The total tax burden(including federal) for Bill Self or Kansas Businesses don't change. These are pass through taxes. Take a business that is an LLC, S-Corp, Limited Partnership that makes $4 million in profit. The owner(s) who also work as employees in the company have to pay themselves a salary so they don't avoid payroll taxes such as unemployment tax and FICA. The owner(s) receive a total of $150K(3 owners). They federal government still taxes the profits divided among the three according to their % of ownership and taxes them on the individual income rates, not the corporate rates. The individual income taxes in Kansas are deducted from the federal income tax dollar for dollar, thus the only thing that changes here is that Bill Self pays more to the federal government, less to Kansas than he did before. There is no difference in his total tax.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

You can say whatever, but I did the research long before this article was ever written or before this law was passed in Kansas. I do know the facts surrounding it. The article you posted from the Tax Policy Institute even includes this fact.

Rae Bricil 1 year ago

that was the theory that this law would get people to come but it takes more than just reduced taxes to want to live somewhere. I am sure the people with views of SF bay are dying to move to Hayes. Also, "a Kansas resident with income earned in another state will still be subject to income tax in that other state" so it is not like people can just claim their residence here and actually live and work somewhere else. Overall it is good you are catching on.

By the way if you do not think these tax cuts are having major impacts why do you think Kansas's budget is in financial ruin? I am sure you will attribute this to falsehood perpetrated by the "liberal" media. If this is the case keep your head in the sand it seems to be working well.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Maybe because there isn't the political will to cut back on welfare when people find work based on baseline budgeting?

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Jay, here's the deal with it. You see, Bill Self pays the same amount in total taxes regardless of the LLC's so called loophole. If he paid the state income tax, it would be deducted dollar for dollar from the federal income tax return. He pays the same amount regardless.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

I saw it Jay. That doesn't the fact that I'm right about the overall tax burden. I'm right. You're not. You're just playing politics with it and don't want to be right.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

This article is specifically talking about Kansas State Income tax.

You've been implying that taxable income in Kansas is computed the same as for Federal income tax, and that is not correct. On the K-40, Line 1 comes from the Federal return (there's the Federal computation). Line 2 basically wipes away any business income left after completing Schedule S. This is the tax law change that wage-earning people are complaining about.

An overly simple version of Self's return would have $2.98 million on line one (total of his salary of $230,000 and his minimum $2.75Million from the KU Athletics to his LLC) that is taxable by FED. Then, after completing the Schedule S, he'd have negative $2.75m to put on line 2 and an adjusted amount of $230,000 on line three. Line three is the STATE taxable income. He'd pay about $10,300 on that instead of $138,000 on his entire compensation.

Gregg Marshall, on the other hand (no LLC), would have to pay STATE and FED income tax on the entire $3 Million. So he pays the full $138K while Bill pays $10K. (LOL) Sure, Marshall can deduct that from his gross federal income,. It's not an equal burden, and that doesn't help Kansas any.

Obviously there are a other zillion other tax credits and ways to minimize tax liability, but this is basically how the grift works as it pertains to the new Kansas law, and that's what this article is about.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Except that it took 30 of your dishonest comments to admit that....

The LLC owner derives zero benefit. You've insisted otherwise. Were you misinformed or dishonest?

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Now you're arguing with yourself.......

Tony Bandle 1 year ago

I want to know what Calimari, Uncle Roy, Rat Face and the other heavy hitters are doing with their state taxes. Something tells me Bill is not alone in this kind of arrangement.

I always tip in cash and tell the waiter or waitress that I won't tell if you won't tell...Uncle Sam gets enough! I guess a little bit of the '60's rebel is still in me. :).

Steve Macy 1 year ago

Funny how much we worry about what someone else makes, and/or the tax they pay. I have never been caught up in that.
I take every deduction I can, pay my share, and move on.
I guess being a public person, you have to get used to people being in your business.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Steve, but the deductions you take aren't called loop holes, but if it's someone wealthy that takes them, it's called a loop hole by the people that complain about it, but not when the not so wealthy take the deductions.

Randy Glenn 1 year ago

Coach Selfs charities make up for his not paying state taxes and Im thinking he wrote a check to a student for the late-night half court shot. These are much smarter than giving it to the Governor...we`d all do the same!!

Bill Kackley 1 year ago

Who's worried about the taxes or lack their of that Bill Slef pays. It just that you fools in Kansas are letting your State legislature and Slimy Sam Brownbeck screw you over for their own and their rich friends, like the Koch Brothers, benefit. Why don't you wake up and take Kansas back to being a proud state and not the laughing stock of the nation.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Billy... Take your liberal nonsense and hate elsewhere.

Ryan Sullivan 1 year ago

Jay... Go pound sand down a rat hole. Or, make an original comment instead of bashing what other people say. You're able to think independently, yeah?

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Like you just did? Another day of envy and hate for you too?

Ryan Sullivan 1 year ago

Envy? Of what? Hate to break it to you sporto, but I'm not poor. Far from it actually. A simple mind must deduce that anyone who thinks everyone should pay their fair share of taxes must be poor. You're a clown and a simp. ot us here in the 1st place. Great job electing brownback, btw, you guys are looking great.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Another over paid bureaucrat? Keep taxing those who produce. That's worked....nowhere.

Bad news. Money is mobile and the rest of the world wants it too. America has to compete for commerce with it's tax rates. You'll have to find another way to buy votes.

Ryan Sullivan 1 year ago

Politics?...Hadn't thought about that as a profession. While that would be a very entrepreneurial profession - I want me some of them koch bothers' dirty money - I have enough self-awareness to recognize that I am highly UN-electable.

Taxes still pay for roads and schools and stuff you and yours use every single day, right? Let's just do away with all taxes - income, sales, property, etc. "Where we're going, we don't need roads."

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

" make an original comment instead of bashing what other people say."

Maybe you should take your own advice.

I hate these articles by the LJW that inevitably lead to nothing more than political posturing. No one here is going to change my mind on politics and I'm sure that the reverse is just as true..

Ryan Sullivan 1 year ago

I agree with you; a headline I could have done without.

And I agree with your 1st comment...but someone has to call out a jerkoff who tells everyone who disagrees with him that they are ignorant and jealous. That crap stood out more than anything in the article. Somebody had to do it. Plus, there is a difference between taking aim at 1 particular a-hole and bashing every single poster. Big difference, no?

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Keep following me around Ryan. You embody the ignorance and hate of liberals so perfectly it's almost unfair. Please add your thoughts whenever possible.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Ryan, isn't that just what you did? If you post in a public forum you have no right to not be ridiculed.

John Boyle 1 year ago

The Koch Brothers actually pay a lot of taxes. A lot more than you do Mr. Kackley.

Glen Miller 1 year ago

Who gives a rip. If he's doing what he's doing legally, then fine by me. We look to bring down high profile people in any way possible anymore. I guess if you can't find paying off players, takings tests for the players or giving them strippers..... you've got to try and find something on us. I could care less what Self makes, it doesn't affect me in any way and I'm not the jealous type. Make all the paper you want while you can, because someway, somehow our government will get their money LMAO

Bryce Landon 1 year ago

This doesn't seem so much like an attempt to take down Bill Self as it is an attempt to take down Sam Brownback. There's a reason I only read the sports and comics section of newspapers, and that's because of their left-wing bias. I guarantee you that the LJW wouldn't have printed this story if that witch Sebelius had enabled Self's big tax break.

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

Valid point Bryce. Sam Brownback has been taking some huge hits in the National news of late so why not take another swipe on a supposed "SPORTS" story.

Insightful.

Bryce Landon 1 year ago

This whole problem could be avoided if we didn't have the 16th Amendment, which legalizes the progressive income tax.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

And there it is! Something Bryce does understand!

Bryce Landon 1 year ago

I understand way more than you give me credit for or are willing to acknowledge.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

There is a law that has been proposed that also has a proposal to send an Amendment to the States to repeal the 16th.

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

There is a constitutional method for repealing Amendments which I'm guessing that you are referring to. After it passes the Proposal requirements it needs to be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures must approve of the amendment proposed by Congress.

Unfortunately, it seems as if our government and particularly the powers of the President have been expanded to the point that the process no longer matters as laws are passed watering down the Amendment to the point they no longer mean anything.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Actually, it can occur one of two ways.

First way: 2/3rds of the states can propose an amendment forcing Congress to then prescribe one of two ways for the states to vote for ratification. Either the people of each state during a general election or the legislatures of each state. This would require 3/4ths of the states.

Second Way: 2/3rds of each house of Congress can propose an amendment and then prescribe the aforementioned methods of ratification at the state level.

We don't need Congress to propose an amendment, but they have to(not optional) to prescribe the method of ratification.

Beth Ennis 1 year ago

I'm really glad to see so much support for HCBS on here. He's not alone in the LLC setup as far as coaches go, it's a common practice. He has been doing it since his days at Illinois. Our legislature is at fault for doing something that they didn't do any research on first to see how many LLC's the state has and how much money they make and are they the kind of business that would hire more people if they didn't pay state taxes. Obviously, Bill Self doesn't have any of his own employees, so it didn't do as the legislature intended. No one that I know that has benefited from the no tax bill has hired a single person. We have been guinea pigs in a experiment that has gone horribly wrong.

John Randall 1 year ago

I guess all the people who have jobs with the charities Bill and Cindy's LLC support don't count as employed, since they don't work for the gumming.

Tommy Tripp 1 year ago

Why do the people in the press and in Kansas fail to understand how taxing of LLC's income works? Everyone piles on Brownback about this being a tax loophole but it is not...the income is taxed. The LLC submits a K-1 to the LLC owner reporting the LLC's income. The owner must report this K-1 income on their Form 1040. An LLC K-1 is like a W-2 or 1099. So Bill Self should be reporting this income on his Federal Form 1040 and all of the states he earns his income and thus his Kansas Form 40. The majority of this LLC income should be earned in Kansas and thus he should be paying tax on it. The benefit of Self having this income reported to the LLC's is to shield him from personal law suits not tax avoidance. This article should be removed by the LJW or at the least a restatement clarifying the issue...with an apology to Bill Self.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Surely you don't expect logic, facts or honesty to be any part of a liberal discussion or liberal journalism.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

You're completely wrong, Tommy. Income earned by an LLC or Sole Proprietorship is not taxed by the state of Kansas. Federal, yes. Kansas no.

Tommy Tripp 1 year ago

You are correct the "LLC" is not taxed it is the "LLC owner" who is taxed on the LLC's income...so the LLC's income IS taxed.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

No, the LLC owner is not taxed on the income in Kansas. Give it up, you don't know what you are talking about.

Rae Bricil 1 year ago

you are exactly right the LLC owner is not taxed on a pass through basis and therefore does not pay taxes.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/not-kansas-anymore-income-taxes-pass-through-businesses-eliminated

Jay Scott 1 year ago

You never read the articles you link, do you? It doesn't say any of what you imply it does.

It would be better used to argue against your point.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

I read the exact same article, and it explicitly says the exact opposite he thinks it says.

Tommy Tripp 1 year ago

...and No the Federal government does not tax "LLC" either. It works the same way for Federal and Kansas...the owner gets the K-1 of the LLC's income and is required to report that income on their Federal Form 1040 and the starting point for the Kansas Form 40 is the Federal Form 1040 Taxable income so yes Kansas is taxing that LLC income.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

The income is subtracted on Kansas Schedule S.

Tommy Tripp 1 year ago

Really? Wow then I stand corrected...sorry live in Texas and didn't realize this.

Tommy Tripp 1 year ago

In that case I take it all back and the press and people of Kansas are correct and Brownback is an idiot.

Tommy Tripp 1 year ago

I also must now agree with the writer of this article that it is sort of BS that Self isn't paying any Kansas tax on his Kansas income.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Jay, you didn't even read it did you? You see, for every dollar taxed on the individual income, it is a dollar for dollar credit on the 1040 federal return. Bill Self does not pay less taxes, it's the same amount, just how it is divvied up is different.

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

The primary purpose of an LLC is to provide liability protection for the members included in the LLC plus tax-advantages such as moving income from the business to the members, while avoiding any unnecessary taxes

Duh.. I know that you know this and there are several other benefits as well.

But what befuddled me is how a state employee can form an LLC? This article clearly shows why:

http://kcur.org/post/thanks-tax-cuts-bill-self-highest-paid-state-employee-owes-little-kansas-income-taxes#stream/0

As I and others before have stated, this is a poorly disguised hit on Sam Brownback. Most of us have tried to keep politics out of this forum but with the LJW basically throwing it in our face, this divisiveness should be expected.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Marius, it is not an advantage to have pay taxes on one's individual tax return for money that never get's paid to the individual. The individual rates(at the federal level especially) are higher at lower marginal income levels than the corporate tax rates are. It just causes them to have to take money out of the business to pay taxes which often times exceeds the salary that they are required to pay themselves from the business they own and work at.

Aaron Paisley 1 year ago

Here's the problem with the article. It tries to imply Self pays no income tax at all on his LLC income. It's ambiguous and does not denote that Self still pays federal income tax on his LLC earnings, he just doesn't pay state income taxes through his LLC because of Brownback's policies.

Robert Moore 1 year ago

This article is pure LEFT WING garbage. It only goes to show how ignorant the news media has become. The writer show be shown the door back to the New York Times, where she belongs. What she doesn't say is how much does the LLC pays. Guess what, it is private and she can't access that information. So Sara, since you have an obvious left wing agenda, write about something else you don't understand, individual freedom. Bill Self has the same rights as any citizen, professional or business entity. Did anyone ever notice the LLC or PC behind the names of Drs, attorneys or other professional organizations. They are maximizing their income.
I live in Texas where this article and the writer would be laughed out of the State. We don't pay income taxes, period.

Aaron Paisley 1 year ago

Texas is one of several states without a state income tax. We make up for it with a higher sales tax, higher property taxes, and higher taxes in a couple of other areas as well.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

The sales tax in Texas is capped at 8.25% including the local and county sales taxes added on to the state's. The property taxes are not imposed by the state of Texas, they are all local county and city property taxes. There is also no property tax on personal property like automobiles in Texas, but you do have register and have the vehicle inspected for safety and depending on where you live, for emissions. You probably already know these things. Texas is also the 3 or 4th lowest for the value of owner occupied housing which is what property taxes apply to, so the overall dollar value of the tax is not that high compared to places where the median is $500k or more like in NYC, SF, etc.

Dan Burns 1 year ago

Corporations in any state don't typically pay State tax which brings jobs to the area. People including business owners pay state tax when on their salary and expenditures otherwise as a corp I end up paying state and federal taxes twice.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

It is more of a reflection on how ignorant many readers are because if the readers weren't ignorant, there wouldn't be any readers.

Ryan Sullivan 1 year ago

Robert: I'd make fun of TX, but no state is more laughable than KS right now. But, I wouldn't claim TX as the end all be all; getting laughed out of the state of TX would be like a badge of honor for most sane people. If I said something that texans generally disagreed with, that's how I'd know I was right.

Bottom line: Don't hate the player, hate the game. And the game sucks, thanks in large part to the DB republicans and their umpteenth try at trickle down, or whatever BS term you want to label it these days. Keep trying though dipsticks; I'm sure one of these days the wealthy will lift this country up.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Keep trying to tax people into prosperity. It's never worked.

Bad news. The rich can now incorporate globally. You can't steal everyone's money.

Ryan Sullivan 1 year ago

Simp, neither has giving tax breaks to the rich. Its the story that you crusty old Bs try to sell everyone on. That's why we do it after all, right? We give them tax breaks b/c they have the means to create jobs and redistribute? If not, then why do we give the rich tax breaks?

Prosperity comes when the middle class does well. The poor do not pay taxes, and now the rich don't pay taxes, so the middle class is left with the burden. Its not sustainable.

I suppose you think its completely sound that companies spend millions on lobbyists but avoid paying millions in taxes that they owe. Your stupidity is remarkable. I'm literally remarking on your stupidity. Its been remarked.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

It's sad that you're this ignorant and arrogant at the same time. The "rich" still pay the vast majority of the taxes. They pay them at a higher rate and pay more of them. In every possible sense they pay more. When you say they don't you're either grossly uninformed of just plain dishonest. Most of all you're pathetically angry.The fact that you can't punish them for being more successful than you really has you all unhinged, doesn't it?

Ryan Sullivan 1 year ago

You slapped your ignorance and arrogance all over this article; its everywhere, but of course only in response to other people's comments, you coward.

The rich people are not the problem...Again, hate the game, not the player. Every single person is going to try to pay as little in taxes as possible, myself very much included. But when I do have to pay taxes, I don't look at it as punishment. What a ridiculous assumption...I'm angry at rich people (for some reason) so I want them to be punished by having to pay more taxes. You would think a simple mind would be simple to follow, but you've proven its not so much.

The state of Kansas is a freaking laughing stock thanks to your boy and all your delusional economic premises. Keep it up though, its a good look for you.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Was there a point in there? You did a great job of making mine, which, in case you're so deranged that you forgot, was that you're angry, uninformed and at least somewhat dishonest.

Thanks for illustrating that so superbly.

Ryan Sullivan 1 year ago

I think we ARE in agreement that PEOPLE are not the problem. Where it seems we disagree is that there even IS a problem at all. Because the STATE of ks thought it would be a good idea to give trickle down yet another shot, you now have a problem. If you can't admit that your state is a complete cluster F then you are really out there bro. Tell us all how good the economy is in ks. Wait, does saying that make me jealous of somebody? You keep throwing that around at everyone. What's up with that?

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Are you drinking already or have you got so angry that you make no sense?

Ryan Sullivan 1 year ago

Yes. Angry, jealous, and ignorant. Same as all the rest of us on here. We're all jealous of you jay scott. You are clearly rich and we are all clearly poor, and thus we are all angry and jealous. Your message is as repetitive as it is ridiculous, thus it has been determined that this is just some persona you've created to just to screw with everyone. You got me. I admit I was fooled. I should have picked up on it the 5th or 6th time you called someone angry and/or jealous b/c they didn't agree with you. Such nonsense; I can't believe I couldn't tell it was all a joke. You should catfish someone; you're pretty good at this stuff.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Apparently you've given up on trying to make sense and opted solely to make my point. We both knew that was your limit, didn't we?

Micky Baker 1 year ago

So, you want to raise the debt to $20 trillion?

Micky Baker 1 year ago

That was my point Jay. It's 20 trillion(twice was much as it was when Obama took office), but they still blame it on, well, not Obama.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Texas has no individual income tax at all, and it is the fastest growing state in the country in population by far.

Gerry Butler 1 year ago

I'm not really sure why LJW felt the need to even print this article. Coach Self has done nothing wrong. Like others have stated on here with this article who wouldn't or doesn't look for ways to help themselves benefit more. Who doesn't try to get as much out of life? The man has done zero wrong, others have pointed out about how people do pay taxes on this. Just don't really see why LJW felt the need to bring this article , are things that slow? Seeing as how we are approaching closer to Football or Volleyball- - that you just happened to forget made the women's final four last year, might be nice to concentrate about those programs a little more then this BS. I'm sure glad I'm not a public figure people feeling the need to always try and drag up Bs. What exactly does this have to do with Coach Self's coaching duties, his performance, he is nothing but a role model for the University of Kansas, must be really bored, times really dead really scratching to try and who the hell knows what exactly your trying to do. If your trying to drive Coach Self out with this meaningless Bs then your off to a good start. This article has NOTHING to do about how he Coaches the game, the thing he is paid to do, How he mentors these kids, Surely you can do or find something anything better then this to write about. Simply Amazing REALLY? - - seriously? you've really outdone yourself this time WELL DONE

Dan Burns 1 year ago

Interesting how the article is written by " Staff and Wire Reports". No one will put their name on this one.

Harlan Hobbs 1 year ago

I will apologize up front for the fact that I haven't taken the time to read most of the posts ahead of mine. Therefore, I am certain that my comments have been made by others.

However, this is clearly a political article masquerading as a sports article, and as Dan says, a relatively anonymous one at that.

I notice that the article is notoriously lacking any mention of Coach Self's charitable work. I know that it is enormous and speaks volumes about the man. He is a huge contributor to society both on and off the court. That's more than I can say for Anthony Hensley who is nothing more than a professional lifetime politician who should just go away to Sandersville.

Also, I truly am compassionate for the poor who pay no taxes at all, and who receive substantial sums from those of us who do. However, what do they really contribute? Believe me, I wouldn't want to trade places with them. However, let's get real here!

Hopefully, the days of class warfare and class envy will be coming to a close in the near future along with all of the "political correct" baloney. Otherwise, our country is doomed.

In the future, I wish the LJW would put these types of articles where they belong, in the Editorial Section with a lot of the other garbage.

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

I talked a little bit on this matter above but not with anything nearly as thorough as you have. I completely agree that the LJW has purposely pushed this article into the sports section notwithstanding the proper avenues for which this article is better suited.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

This hate piece sure brought out the liberal kooks. Bad news fellas. Hating and envy isn't a recipe for success in life.

The world is a global tax market now. It's getting harder and harder to steal from people who innovate and create to buy votes. America has among the highest capital gains taxes in the world. Businesses want to move to Canada to avoid high taxes. Think about that. Money is mobile. You'll have to get people working, not living off those who do.

John Boyle 1 year ago

I almost hate to admit this but I agree with you Jay.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

I'm not always nice, but I'm almost always right. Thanks!

Marius Rowlanski 1 year ago

How much better if the LJW Men's Basketball Section just reported sports and passed over this type of journalism for the editorials or non-sports sections..

Anything new on the recruiting front? Are we still looking for one more player in 2016 or have we moved on to 2017?

Jeff Coffman 1 year ago

The better question, is why aren't journal world contractors taking advantage of the tax law similar to other personnel in the state? Pointing to smart people who have optimized their tax strategy and whining about it, seems like you aren't learning from these individuals.

I do believe that they can defer income from these LLCs and therefore basically not pay taxes until they use the money, but I think it is a deferral not a net-zero game.

I don't think we will ever see a simplified tax law. There are the "Big 4" Accounting Firms, and companies like Liberty, Jackson Hewitt and KC Based HR Block who combine for nearly $100 Billion in revenue from these types of complex laws. If you simplify the laws, congress with have to enact some re-employment act like Sarbanes-Oxley to employ the thousands of high end tax accountants. I don't think congress and I don't think the lobby efforts would ever thwart that type of effort. And lets be honest, congress likes to negotiate with tax dollars.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

The most intelligent thing posted here.........next to all of my comments of course..;)

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

You do believe wrong, Jeff. It's not deferred. It's simply not taxed by the state of Kansas. The income is reported to and taxed by the Feds, and wiped away on the Kansas return. Period.

0.0% Business owners/sole proprietors/farmers in Kansas

0.345% Bill Self on his $3,000,000 minimum annual income

2.7% Poor wage earners

4.6% Middle Class wage earners

If people think it's fair that I pay zero state income tax on $100K from 1099 "business" earnings and a household making $100K on salary pays about $4500... well, thank you very much!

Jay Scott 1 year ago

You paid an additional $7650 in FICA. So you're behind, even if your example was as simple as you explain, which it isn't.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

Try to keep up, Jay. We're talking Kansas state income tax. That's it.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Try to be honest about your hypothetical scenario. It's pretty obvious that you don't own an LLC or a business.

Rae Bricil 1 year ago

hilarious. when someone proves you wrong you always call them dishonest--nice go to card. you can never admit you're wrong--your level of narcissism rivals that of Drumpf and John miller. I just want to say thank you for your inane postings they are always good for a laugh.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Maybe you can help Reynolds with his fairy tale. How about you post a link you haven't read that makes a point opposite of yours? You do that so well.....

Rae Bricil 1 year ago

here is another link for you hot of the press--Kansas is going to ride this guy all the way to bankruptcy at worst or a state that offers no public services at best--(what good is a public education let's just privatize everything):

http://www.kansascity.com/article78450362.html

i am sure you will say it doesn't prove my point about the issues the state faces due to these asinine tax cuts or it is just propaganda by the left wing media.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Kansas isn't going to go into bankruptcy for not collecting enough money, but if people keep voting themselves money from the treasury that isn't their money.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Jay Reynolds isn't proving anyone wrong but Jay Reynolds.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

You're trying to set a narrative that isn't true, thus you're being called out for being a liar.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

This narrative?

Kansas passed a business income tax exemption which eliminates certain non-wage business income, farm income, and rental and royalty income reported in Schedules C, E and F on lines 12, 17, and 18 of IRS Form 1040 for Partnerships, Limited Liability Corporations, Limited Liability Partnerships, Sole Proprietorships and Subchapter-S Corporations that have elected at the federal level to be taxed as a pass-through entity.

http://www.kansascommerce.com/index.aspx?NID=447

Rae Bricil 1 year ago

if you are correct how does his additional FICA payment help Kansas and it budget woes? The problem is Kansas can't meet its financial obligations and is not a sovereign state.

Kansas keep cutting education and other infrastructure. it will work out well for ya....

Jay Scott 1 year ago

A left wing paper's editorial doesn't constitute fact? What's the world coming to?

Rae Bricil 1 year ago

if you looked into it the article provides a link to the state budget which outlines the tax cuts

https://governor.ks.gov/docs/default-source/documents/fy-2017-allotments-to-state-agencies.pdf?sfvrsn=2

but i am sure the left wing governor's office is lying about the facts as well.. it would really be a shame if you ever let facts get into the way of your narrative.

you are a funny little man:) thanks again for the daily humor

Jay Scott 1 year ago

A good start. Every one of those institutions is overstaffed, fat and a money pit.

Your point?

Micky Baker 1 year ago

But Jay Scott, how dare you assert that people be responsible for their own circumstances and say, have the local school board fix issues that are local in both magnitude and existence. You know, by having the local businesses pay a bit more in tax locally, instead of filtered through a higher level of inefficient government. Government, by nature, cannot and never will be as efficient as profit seekers.

Rae Bricil 1 year ago

also always nice when the governor cut almost $60million for the elderly and environment. Guess it makes sense the faster old people die the less the need to worry about environmental concerns.

Brownbackistan is an awesome place to live but glad i am a refugee.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

OMG a cut of 1/3 of one percent...it's going to mean the death of everyone....

It's a good start.

$4.4 mil from the environment would be better. The Feds have billions into creating an Enviro Gestapo.

Rae Bricil 1 year ago

no but it will mean death to some, but i am sure that is fine by you since in your small world you are the only one that matters.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

I'm sure you really believe that. That's what's scary. If you seriously don't think that every one of these agencies/colleges/whatever could withstand a 5% cut with no loss of essential services you're truly and completely clueless.

Rae Bricil 1 year ago

yeah who needs clean air and water. so overrated...say the people of Flint

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Flint was run by Donkeycrats...bad example.

What type of pointless bureaucrat job do you have?

Rae Bricil 1 year ago

like always the point goes over your dense skull--you are a funny little man.
you are a typical right wing...want to use of all the government subsidies for yourself and then shut them down for others. If you actually went to KU (which has me questioning the value of my math and econ degrees) your education was highly subsidized by tax payers yet you state ("Every one of those institutions is overstaffed, fat and a money pit. ") now that these taxes should be cut which would increase the cost for current college student.

I work in the private sector and have never minded paying taxes the only qualms i have is where they go.

Jay Scott 1 year ago

Now you have fewer qualms....

College tuition is bloated by the useless staff. Start cutting that too.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

So why didn't Flint fix those pipes before they started to use them? It wasn't anyone else's fault. You see, they failed to be responsible for their own circumstances and relied on someone else to do it for them.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Not true. You're only trying to include Kansas State income taxes to create a false narrative, we know how you leftists operate.

Jay Reynolds 1 year ago

I'm amazed at how people can complain about an article when they don't even understand it, but then, H&R Block makes a fortune helping people fill out three lines on a 1040ez.

Bill Self is doing nothing wrong. Hell, I doubt he could even change his contract to be paid fully on salary at this point if he wanted to.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

Here's why, higher pension or FICA tax(increased state spending).

Richard Aronoff 1 year ago

“This is common practice nationally among universities and their football and basketball coaches.”

The notion that LLCs exist for the "elites" is ridiculous. Most LLCs are formed by small businesses.

Micky Baker 1 year ago

The services that Bill Self provides outside of just coaching the team could easily be done by a small business.

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