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TCU defeats Kansas, 62-55

  • 8 p.m., Feb. 6, 2013
  • Daniel-Meyer Coliseum, Fort Worth, TX

Thursday, February 7, 2013

First to ‘worst’: Lowly TCU stuns Jayhawks

From left Jeff Withey, Jamari Traylor, Elijah Johnson and Kevin Young, watch the final seconds of the Jayhawks' 62-55 loss to Texas Christian on Feb. 6, 2013 in Fort Worth, Texas.

From left Jeff Withey, Jamari Traylor, Elijah Johnson and Kevin Young, watch the final seconds of the Jayhawks' 62-55 loss to Texas Christian on Feb. 6, 2013 in Fort Worth, Texas.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self talks after loss to TCU

Kansas coach Bill Self talks after his team's 62-55 loss to TCU on Feb. 6, 2013.

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Box score

KU-TCU

— Kansas University did much more than lose a basketball game on Wednesday to TCU, the last-place team in the Big 12 Conference.

The Jayhawks, according to coach Bill Self, had one of the most putrid performances in school history, evidenced by a 13-point — yes, 13-point — first half that contributed mightily to a 62-55 setback in Daniel-Meyer Coliseum.

“It’s the worst team Kansas has ever put on the floor since Dr. Naismith was here,” Self said after the Jayhawks suffered back-to-back losses for the first time since the 2005-06 season, when KU fell to Kansas State and Missouri in consecutive games. “I think he had some bad teams when he lost to Topeka YMCA in his first couple years. The first half (in which KU hit 3 of 22 shots) ... there hasn’t been a team play worse than that offensively. That hasn’t happened ... anywhere.

“Maybe Northern Illinois. Earlier this year, they made one basket in a half. The great thing,” Self cracked, “is we had three assists on our three baskets. We were really sharing the ball.”

KU, which trailed, 22-13, at halftime, had its lowest-scoring half at least since the 1988-89 season when halftime records started to be kept. Previous low was 18 points against Iowa State back in 1999. The previous low in a half in the Self era was 20 points versus Arizona on Nov. 21, 2005.

This happened against a TCU team (10-12) that in opening league play 0-8 had lost seven games by double figures. Its closest loss was a nine-pointer to Texas Tech, the other margins of defeat 18, 11, 13, 13, 21, 26 and 17 points.

“What is the right word to assess the first half? Futility ... would that be a word?” said Self, whose Jayhawks (19-3 7-2) trailed 10-4 with 6:15 left in the first half. The Jayhawks also trailed, 20-6, with four minutes left in an effort described as “embarrassing.”

“Yes, I am,” senior Kevin Young (six points, nine rebounds) said, asked if he was embarrassed. “There are a lot of great names to wear the jersey before us. We embarrassed not only us but them. We played horrible.

“We deserved what we got,” added Young, who came off the bench in favor of Perry Ellis (no points, 10 minutes) for the first time in 19 games in a move Self said was designed to “get Perry going.”

Of the first half, Self noted: “It was awful, but even as bad as it was, and it was horrendous, if we are sound defensively and get stops at the end of the clock, we are down four to six as opposed to nine.”

KU did slice a 16-point deficit (37-21 at 11:41) to four points the second half (44-40 at six minutes) but again went cold and found itself down double figures at 51-40.

Self didn’t see this one coming.

“We actually were very competitive Monday and Tuesday,” he said of the team’s response to a home loss to Oklahoma State on Saturday. “And we had a great shootaround today. Our coaches said it’s the best we looked all year.”

Of the lineup switch, Self said: “Well, Kevin will give us the same thing whether he starts or doesn’t. That didn’t have anything to do with anything. I was really trying to hope that Perry could get going. Obviously, it didn’t happen. If we could start three guys, we’d do that. They make us run five out there. I don’t know who deserves to start.”

Young said: “I did it (come off bench) last year. I have no problem with it. I lacked energy today. I don’t know why. I will try my hardest to not let that happen again.”

KU, which hit 29.5 percent of its shots and just three of 22 threes, was led by Ben McLemore, who had 15 points off 6-of-16 shooting. Jeff Withey had 12 points, and Naadir Tharpe had 11 off 2-of-15 shooting.

The Jayhawks will meet Oklahoma at 3 p.m. Saturday in Norman, Okla.

Comments

LAJayhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Which is the worst:

Elijah Johnson 3-12 for 8 points.

Naadir Tharpe 2-15 for 11 points.

Travis Releford 0-1 for 1 point.

**NOTE: The third on the list is a 5th-year senior, and the most accurate shooter in the Big 12.

Eric Dawson 6 years, 3 months ago

Releford passed up shot after shot. Amazing I still have hair.

Fear.

It's contagious.

yates33333 6 years, 3 months ago

Note that the combined output of Johnson and Tharpe was 5 for 27 with Releford that makes 5 for 28. That's about 18 percent. What has happened? How can a pretty good team get so bad, so fast?

Aligned 6 years, 3 months ago

We have four starters averaging over 50%, but yet the two players shooting the worst percentage on the team took almost half the shots. You don’t need a crystal ball to see how that’s going to turn out.

kellerman411 6 years, 3 months ago

How about losing in front of 6,000 fans.... Talk about embarrassing.

chindo 6 years, 3 months ago

releford not shooting is a travesty- the guy can score. I don't know why he didn't take the shots- maybe he wasn't feeling the stroke or trying to get the rest of the team in the game (which never happened)... It seemed they were trying to shoot through the block, taking ill-advised jumpers at poor times, rather than feeding the ball to withey for high-percentage plays.

but EJ... oh EJ, what are we going to do with you. more nights than not, he has as many or more turnovers than assists. on a good night, he breaks even on turnovers and assists. on a bad one, like last night, 1 assist, 3 turnovers. for a guard, that's just unacceptable. he contributes on D, but if the guy is even odds on turning the ball over or making an assist, i can't see how the offense can be sustained with him at guard. time to bench him?

Robin Smith 6 years, 3 months ago

I smell a Bill Self team lesson. "We don't have a guard" “But that is the horse that we are gonna ride." KU guards: 11-46 (24%) ; TCU entire team: 18-46 (39%) ; KU non-guards: 7-15 (47%). Releford leads the nation in FG% at 61%, takes 1 shot. Johnson takes his third highest shot attempts all season; the other two in the other two losses. Tharpe takes his highest shot attempts of his career. Withey ties for his second fewest of the season. Releford takes his fewest of the season. Self said after the game, "I had a couple guys make sure we got out to a bad start". Releford, Young, and Withey have been masking our weakness, which is guard play, and McLemore is almost exclusively a set-shooter who doesn't create off the dribble in iso: against TCU Self asked Releford to not shoot and they ran everything through their guards. Point proven.

Jonathan Allison 6 years, 3 months ago

Could or would coach Self allow and maybe even encourage his team to play away from its strengths in order to prove a point about their team identity?

Or maybe Self actually did view this game as a confidence booster for guys like EJ (Jaybate's suggestion), Tharpe, and Perry and then that gameplan backfired?

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

Yeah....I think he was going for the confidence boost.....Oh, boy, did it ever backfire! :(

ChicagoJHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Robin Smith,

Gotta ask. Where did you here that from?

Brandon Mahon 6 years, 3 months ago

Easily Tharpe, Yes johnson played bad and so did travis, but come on 2-15 shooting we were within in 4 and he jacks up a three with a 4 on 1 runout. He has no basketball IQ what so ever, and I have seen so many missed layups... All his layups hit the back board and barely hit the rim...

diegohawk 6 years, 3 months ago

D: All of the Above.

Coach. The seniors have been in a funk. Best way to get them out of a funk is to cut some of their playing time. Being on the pine always stands for good motivation of players who aren't bringing it each time out. If it doesn't then where are you going with those players anyway. I know these guys are your seniors and best "players" right now however if you are afraid to sit them that strips accountability from those players and actually hurts the team in the long run. Sack up Bill and sit em. You have some freshman that could use more than 2 mins a game for development anyway. I know you want to win every game but I question you when you don't sit a slumping player or players when they clearly aren't being agressive or bringing energy. You clearly sit Perry for the same thing. Kind of sends a double message.

lurkerhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Elijah is playing very hesitant. Naadir at least showed heart. Travis wants to make sure his stat line stays pretty. I'd like to think some of them are playing through some small injury but that can't explain the lack of heart and motivation coming from the seniors. The chemistry of this team has seriously regressed since December. EJ is now playing as if he's hearing the clock ticking in terms of his draft stock. Where's the fire and motivation to lead this team? You guys can't let this opportunity pass. I hope the seniors call an emergency player-only meeting. People need to call each other out and figure out why their playing lackadaisical. It's almost March...

Chuck Wagstaff 6 years, 3 months ago

Naadir - 2 assists Elijah - 1 assists And their shots come (clank) with 20+ seconds on the clock.

Selfish.

akhaddd 6 years, 3 months ago

e last night, 1 assist, 3 turnovers. for a guard, that's just unacceptable. he contributes on D, but if the g

texashawk10 6 years, 3 months ago

This is the worst performance by a Bill Self KU team period. Texas Tech in '09 is up there, but does not touch tonight. Tonight IMO, was a case of KU thinking the Kansas name on the front of the jersey would be enough to beat an awful team. In all honesty, I believe this team has been playing with an undeserved sense of entitlement for awhile now. Guys are making lazy passes left and right, not getting after 50-50 balls with any kind of conviction, not blocking out on rebounds with authority, and just playing like p***ies right now. Right now there's nothing Self can say or do to make his team play with any heart, passion, or anger because it's on the players now to have someone step up and lead this team, and if no one is willing to step up, it`s going to be a long 5 weeks for everyone.

actorman 6 years, 3 months ago

Well said, texashawk, except for one thing: it's not just the worst performance by a Bill Self KU team. I was a student when KU went through its last two losing seasons (in '81-'82 and '82-'83), and I don't think there was a single game in those two seasons when they were as bad as they were in this game -- especially in the first half. In fact, I wonder if there has ever been a KU team in ANY era that played worse than they did in the first half of this game. Just hard to know what to think, at this point.

JD Roth 6 years, 3 months ago

Kelly Knight and David Magley never played like that. That is the worst possible performance. Now, I expect a focused, determined basketball team from Kansas come Saturday at OU. I highly anticipate an excellent effort and result Saturday. I do feel sorry for all the Jayhawk fans who were in Fort Worth and witnessed that dreadful performance.

Michael Bratisax 6 years, 3 months ago

We were there together actorman..at least through 82. Ted Owens would have been embarrassed if he was coaching last night.

This is one of very few losses where we rolled over belly-up. I'm looking forward to see all the seniors except KY graduate.

Hank Cross 6 years, 3 months ago

Self's solution to mix the (non-existent) offense in the first half - play AW3 about a minute.

Bill Skeet 6 years, 3 months ago

Note to team: Please get your confidence back. You are so much better than this. Go watch that Ohio State video...

Missing the rock chalk chant.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

I think they need to watch both....maybe they can find some similar plays.....watch the Ohio State game & Baylor home game & then COMPARE vs. the last two games.

It would seem that SOMETHING SHOULD come out of that.

John Fitzgerald 6 years, 3 months ago

Part of me thinks there was nothing that could have been done because no one was making shots. The other part makes me wonder why Self didn't pull Travis aside and say, "shoot the damn ball." Either way, this loss was a team effort, and also a coaching effort. Doesn't matter who you put the blame on, it happened. And this isn't just a wake up call, it's a giant leap backwards. We are no longer in the conversation for one of best teams in basketball this year. To make up for this loss, we have to win out and win the Big 12 tournament. There are no other ways to erase this loss. And regardless of where we end up in March, no one, and I repeat, NO ONE will forget about this loss. All it does is give teams hope. The opposing coach will show this game footage, and their players eyes will light up, and they will become confident. There will be NO team in the NCAA Tournament worse than TCU, and that's what worries me most. I will still stand by Self and this years Hawks, and after seeing this effort by the ENTIRE team, I now feel Elijah may be our best and only option to lead the team. He has two choices: Lay down and float through the rest of the season, or take the bull by the horns and relight the fire that we lost halfway through the season. Our season rests on Elijah's shoulders. The next 5 games will tell the rest of the season. RCJH and may God bless these young mens' souls.

Once a Jayhawk, always a Jayhawk, Crimson and Blue for life! ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK, ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK, GO KU!

JD Roth 6 years, 3 months ago

Great post!! Once a Jayhawk, always a Jayhawk. Now go to work KU!!!!

KULA 6 years, 3 months ago

Bill's offense is lame. He can't figure out how to draw up a play to get his struggling floor leader something going towards the basket. He can't figure out how to run a back screen to get his big guy position down low. His predictable offense is picked off time and again as they make the same pass to the wing out top. He's still trying to run the Sherron/Mario miracle three play time and again towards the end of the game when they should be attacking the basket and drawing fouls to stop the clock. Everyone tries to make a pass when they should continue driving to the hole, and they end up making a bad pass because no one else is moving to the bucket, with predictable results--turnover. There's no motion in the offense, except that lame weave play out top, which hasn't produced a basket since Tyshawn left. This one's on Bill. They're running his offense, which has totally bogged down since the Temple game. Bill needs to hire an offensive coordinator.

John Fitzgerald 6 years, 3 months ago

I agree, our offense has looked stagnant for quite some time. The play calling has been odd lately but it could be the players not following through on their assignments. All I know is we have to find a way to win, or this could be a really bad finish to the season. A complete opposite result of last year.

yates33333 6 years, 3 months ago

Anyone who has watched KU play three games knows when certain patterns or plays start what is going to happen next. When Withey gets the ball at the top of the key if he ever threw a pass other than to the wings I think the earth would open and swallow up the court. This is true for other patterns like the weave. What happened to reversing the ball? How do you account for the sloppy passing. Of course the sloppy passing seems to be the only thing that fools the opposition. What a bummer. Does Self determine the offense or does some assistant coach do it? I know Self likes defense, but this team needs an offense. I am wondering if KU lost a couple of assistants that it really needs back.

Steve Zimmerman 6 years, 3 months ago

Very predictable - every time, indeed. It's soooo boring and lame (I wonder why those top recruits do not want to come to KU). It's either shooting treys, or inbound pass to the center. there's no slashing, dicing, penetrate & pass, exciting basketball offense. look at the opponents shooting style - they're trained to shoot from 3 - 4 - 5 - ft. no one, i say, no one in our team that can consistently deliver that kind of shooting - well... again, it's coaching style - like KULA stated above. the kids get used to the plays, when the opponent adjusts comfortably, they become clueless - they'll go for a time-out, coach will draw up a smart play.. errr.. sure, let's get a 2 (3max) points for every time-out.

we used to have so many oops during '06-'08. we could use Ellis, Tray, Wes.. gosh! too much emphasize on D, now look at where our O is. big zero. we suck - real bad. time for a change of coach or coaching style.

SaltLakeHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Ladies and Gentlemen, there it is: the first poster (on this story at least) to call for a coaching change. Wow. That was quick.

Hilariously predictable. If the collective KU fanbase somehow were to manifest itself as a single person, that person would have severe bipolar disorder.

I, for one, choose remain level-headed. Look at it this way: it's a virtual certainty that this is the lowest point of the season. It just gets better from here. I'm calling it, like calling a "bottom" on a stock.

yates33333 6 years, 3 months ago

"Ladies and Gentlemen, there it is: the first poster (on this story at least) to call for a coaching change. Wow. That was quick." SaltLakeHawk.

I have been going bats trying to find the poster who asked for a new coach. Where is it. It is not the first poster. He merely points out the obvious about shooting.

Jonathan Allison 6 years, 3 months ago

read the last sentence of the surrealKU post.

SaltLakeHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Pep talk to team:

Gentlemen, this is rock bottom. Look around. Take in your new, strange surroundings. Remember this. This is what it feels like to play for mizery. Now let's enjoy the rest of the season, because our journey will ultimately end at a place far, far away from this hellhole. Start movin'

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

I would love to agree that this is "rock bottom", but there is no way in the world that we win more than one out of the next four games. As bad as we suck right now, rock bottom is still in the distance.......

SaltLakeHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

The only way we go "lower" is if we lose to TCU at AFH. Or if we lose to a 16 seed as a 1 seed, but I doubt we'll have that opportunity to be a 1 seed anyway.

Cheer up, Jayhawk fans. I'm tellin' ya, this team has waaaay to much talent to continue playing this poorly. Self WILL right this ship, and it's gunna be one hell of a fun ride over the next 2 months. Hold on tight.

jhox 6 years, 3 months ago

Self used up his own eligibility years ago, so he can't play the point for us. He can't be out on the floor making decisions. The number of shots our point guards took is ridiculous, especially on a night when neither of them could buy a basket.

Self's big mistake was in not recruiting a stud point guard in several years. Time to visit Grandview High and Tyrone Taylor, Jr. Now that his ankle is finally healthy he's putting up huge numbers. I believe he had 35 points and 9 assists Tuesday night or something like that. He's able to get into the lane in his sleep. Why we don't recruit great players in our own back yard is beyond me. When you have a 6'2" Junior PG (with a 6'5" Dad) who is as fast as anyone currently in the Big 12, wouldn't you be out looking at him?

Would we be in this mess if we had offered Treavor Releford 3 years ago? You had to know Selby was a one or two year guy at most. Since then we've gone after stud PG's and missed out, but didn't seem to have much of a back up plan when they went elsewhere.

Look, the sky isn't falling, but our coaching staff needs to work a little harder at identfying players. A school like Kansas should not find itself with average or below average point guard play. There are a lot of good PG's out there, but you have to be willing to turn over a few rocks to find some of them.

KUFan90 6 years, 3 months ago

I can understand some of your comments. When they kept running that ridiculous weave up top I wanted to break my TV.

But your last comment is more embarrassing than the way the team played last night. I assume you put that in there just to stir the pot and see what kind of reaction you got? I guess it worked.

Self isnt perfect but there is no other coach out there I'd trade him for.

Steve Zimmerman 6 years, 3 months ago

I don't feel embarrassed at all. HCBS & staff should. I'm waiting for him to say "it's my fault", instead of trying to, excuse me, 'blame' on our guards, or the team. Game after game after game - opponents find out about - well, old story... Our kids have low morale - low confidence, rather. They need to practice shooting more than ever. JumpShot is fundamental. Period. You can't rely on inbound pass to Center, like Withey or KY the whole time. Give it to Perry, he'll make the 3/4 footers. Train Traylor do the Darnell/Arthur thingy - turn him into a beast. The whole team can't even shoot - or drive. They need confidence more than ever. The only way is to draw up plays so they can be utilized more effectively. Screening is one thing, but most of the time ball handler does not even think about passing the ball to the free screener. It's pathetic.

He's known for breeding so-so players to above average, but he also has to show the same for star studs like BMac (more coming next season). About the change of coach, forget it. He's here for life at KU. That's fine, too. I'm not AD. Just a frustrated fan. I want to see exciting plays from KU men's basketball team. Not a lame win, not a lame loss. Losing to a good team is ok if our guys play their guts out. But recent games have been too painful to watch.

David Brown 6 years, 3 months ago

Hello "Chicken Little", your sky appears to be falling. Change of coach? Change of coach?? ("Playoffs? Playoffs?? (Jim Mora)) Good grief! Who would you have replace the coach? Quinn Synder might be willing.

Are we in a funk? Yes. Is it a deep funk? Yes. Abandon ship? There's sharks in those waters, I'll stay onboard. Change the coach? Jeez.

Jonathan Allison 6 years, 3 months ago

sorry surreal but I've got to pile on.

Bill Self coached teams have won an average of 33 games over the past 6 years.

No coaching change necessary. We get a player change after this season.

That said, next year's bunch of freshman and sophomores are due to struggle early.

actorman 6 years, 3 months ago

That is utterly ridiculous. You don't have an .840 winning percentage over 10 years by not knowing how to coach, and it doesn't just suddenly change. Maybe he's going through a bit of a slump, but we don't really know how much of it is him and how much of it is the players not following through.

The fact remains that a coach does not go from being one of the best in the country to being dogs*** overnight ...

smhend 6 years, 3 months ago

Spot on. KU's offense and defense is utterly predictable and oh so beatable. Without individual freelance performers like Sherron Collins, Tyshawn Taylor, etc. you become stale and predictable. Even in the military you have to have junior grade officers that will "make it up as they go along" in combat. Tyshawn Taylor was such a performer - he didn't know what he was going to do each time down the court until he saw what he faced. This year's team is so scripted that they are wooden.

diegohawk 6 years, 3 months ago

The game announcers were calling the plays before they happened. Yes Bill. Your offense has become predictable. If teams were having trouble stopping it, i'd say keep it up until they do. That is not the case and hasn't been since the 1st of the year..

texashawk10 6 years, 3 months ago

One of the biggest issues this team has had all year is a lack of communication. Self talked about it a lot in November and I haven't seen any evidence of that problem being resolved which makes it harder to run a lot of the sets on offense and creates a lot of problems on defense as well.

JayHawkFanToo 6 years, 3 months ago

Suddenly Bill Self has gone from being one of the top coaches in the country to not knowing what to do? I just don't buy it. The team had been in an offensive funk lately and defense had been carrying the team. The plays that were working before are not and the shot that were falling before are not either. i am not sure if it is lack of concentration or a hangover from the OUS game but I believe that the team will regroup and start kicking butt again. Let's not be fair weather fans. TRUST THY SELF!!!

nostradavid 6 years, 3 months ago

We're in the record book once again!

On the wrong end of the biggest RPI upset ever.

Random thought

Random thought by nostradavid

ajhk 6 years, 3 months ago

Trying to incite beatnik on hippie violence?

Sounds fun.

SaltLakeHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

"If we could start three guys, we’d do that. They make us run five out there. I don’t know who deserves to start.”

great line from Bill.

DanR 6 years, 3 months ago

Our offense looks like three on five already, so it wouldn't change much on that end.

ajhk 6 years, 3 months ago

I have to put this loss squarely on the shoulders of HCBS.

This is not a call to replace our coach like some fool above suggested, not at all. HCBS has been arguably the best coach in College hoops for nearly the past decade, no doubt.

There has only been one small though outstanding blemish on his career thus far: losses to the least likely teams at the most unlikely time. I do not need to name them.

This loss was pure and simply due to a lack in mental preparation. HCBS should in no way let them think this was going to be a given. Had they been focused, it likely would have been a walk in the park.

This is not a passing, shooting, dribbling, effort, or communication loss though the stats read like it. This is a loss of pre-game mental preparedness.

Was TCU even mentioned at that 3 hour meeting the other day?

Our coach is the best in the game but I hope he learns from this as well and maybe the lesson will come in handy in tourney time.

Let the team take the OK State game. Bill, this one is yours

bradh 6 years, 3 months ago

I disagree. The only person on the court I thought should be wearing a KU jersey was Tharpe, the other players looked scared. Young and EJ deserved practice jerseys, they at least competed for stretches. You are KANSAS, take it to the other team, don't sit back wondering what is going to happen.

This team hasn't had much intensity until the last 10 minutes or so of a game during Big 12 play. When it looks like they might lose, suddenly they're focused and play better on both sides of the ball. Bring that intensity the first 10 minutes of the game and they would take the heart out of the other team and could likely coast the rest of the game.

ajhk 6 years, 3 months ago

You disagree in that you put the blame on the players. I believe your assessment of their performances was correct. You and I both know they are guilty of much more than you stated, even Tharpe. The players did not perform, plain and simple. But why?

My point starts here: Self is aware coaching is more than X's and O's. He knows there are games within the games, games outside the game. He handles all of this very well which is why he is the best. He hasn't always had the best teams but he wins the most. He knows how to motivate players and how to change the style to optimize productivity.

Self is a great coach and runs a great program. Maybe so much so that it has created a an occasional blind spot. TCU had a 4.5% chance to win. In everyones's mind this tune was playing, "No way this would happen. We could play wearing boxing gloves and 90 lb rucksacks and still walk away with a victory. So... why don't we spend the practice days focusing on some other aspect, not related to this particular game, in order to get better for future games?" Sounds reasonable. Actually works most of the time, sometimes not. And when it doesn't, it's against a team that shocks the basketball world.

I call that a blind spot.

The players didn't perform at all. Could not have been worse. This was a total lack of focus. It is Self's job to make sure his team has that focus.

Some coaches like to tell their players it is up to them (the players) to bring energy and focus, get their minds right, etc. They might call them out and trounce on individuals for not leading or... Some might say, Yeah, coach is right! REMEMBER though- Such statements, screamed at meetings or muttered at pressers are all tools, only a few of the tools that a particular coach has at his/her arsenal to MOTIVATE and FOCUS the team.

I wish things were as simple as we are KANSAS so lets just go win.

NebraskaJayhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Have to disagree. It was not a lack of focus. They were focused...focused to the point where they "pressed" everything. They had a three hour team meeting this past week. This team did not take this game lightly. In fact, I would say they took it too seriously. I know that sounds stupid to say because you have to take every game seriously, but they were so so so so worried about losing this game that that's exactly what they did. The worked their tails off on both the defensive and offensive end of the court last night and got beat. EJ played as hard as I've ever seen him play and he played worst than I've ever seen him play. He looked like a chicken with it's head cut off. It is a shame that the seniors on this team didn't huddle up, calm each other and the team down, and just do what they do. This was not a coaching mistake. This was a team that played tight for an entire 40 minutes. Have seen this before a couple other times from good KU teams, but never against an opponent as worthless as TCU. Unbelievable. Regroup and reassert yourselves, gentlemen. A lot of season left.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

That to me would mean that maybe they're playing hard but not smart. Would seem that they need to watch tapes from the TCU & OSU games and then go back and see when they were playing well like at Ohio State and at home against Baylor and note the differences. It wasn't JUST shot-making. One big part was forcing turnovers and getting out on the break.

They got ONE STEAL all game & that from K.Young at that!!!!! That won't cut it against a good defensive team in TCU. They may suk, but they were only averaging giving up something like 58 pts./gm, so us getting 55 isn't that far off from the usual of what they give up.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

Tharpe was awful.......2-15?!?!?!?! Sorry, don't agree one bit.

I'll support K.Young who kept sitting while P.Ellis was a complete NOTHING out there. And Mc while off of his game wasn't INSANELY terrible. Jeff was marginally almost good.

If I were to put this on Self, I'd say that Anrio & AWIII SHOULD HAVE seen more time last night, Travis wouldn't shoot the ball - I bet AWIII would have & Tharpe & EJ had 3 assists between them....I couldn't see Adams do worse than that.

GIVE THEM MORE MINUTES ALREADY!!!!

Gerry Butler 6 years, 3 months ago

couldn't have said it any bettr Salt Lake Hawk. nw is when its time to see just how loyal the jayhawk nation really is. surreal's statment is so ridicilous that its ALMOST funny. does anyone realize how many schools and their fans would love to have their teams sitting at 19-3 at this point and time of the year? are we struggling? hell ya we are. is the players showing lack of confidence? hell ya they are.are the guys goin thru very very hard times right now? ya. agreed this is the low point, and ya its only up from here. am i frustrated, upset, hell ya but am i jumpin off the TRUE JAYHAWK FAN BASE? uh no. but to make a statment that maybe its time to make a coaching change? are you SERIOUS? have you taken a hit to the head lately? i mean really? why don't you go jump on somebody elses bandwagon for awhile there are plenty and i MEAN PLEANTY of other school bandwagon fans that would love to have you so caled cheering for them when times are good. people like you we do not need. lets get rid of a coach that has won more championships than total losses at home, lets get rid of the coach that has won multiple coach of the year awards ya lets get rid of the coach that has won almost 85 % of his games ya that will work lmao. unbelivable do you realize how many schools would die to have coach self at their school. thats all i have to take a aspirin i have a headache unreal. they will come thru this so you keep smokin whatever it is that casued you to make that pathetic statement there guy and GOOD LUCK GO HAWKS

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

No coaching change would take place for another 2 years after this year, and they'd have to sukk pretty bad for him not to have yet another 3rd year after this year.

kellyrojo78 6 years, 3 months ago

With 3 minutes left Tarp and Johnson were a combined 2-20 from the field. Never going to win a game shooting 10%. I' not sure how Self can coach Tharpe to make 2 foot layups?? Anyway, its not all doom and gloom. We needed slap in the face!

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

No, we didn't!!!! You'd've thought that the home loss to OSU who hadn't won on the road vs. a top 5 team since 1958 would've done the trick!!!!

BringBackMark 6 years, 3 months ago

This team looks like they've been blasted by the flu or the new "Super Bug" going around. Withey looked like he was going to pass out a couple of times last night. Maybe I'm seeing something that's not there but they sure seem sluggish like they're weak from being ill more than just going in the tank.

Even then, it doesn't explain why we can't get our shooters to shoot. Maybe we're seeing the drawback to 5th year senior unselfish role players. Even BMac is too hesitant though.

jhox 6 years, 3 months ago

Self said they had a great shoot around. Might it have been one of those all out game day practices Self is famous for when he thinks we have an easy win coming?

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

The good news is that I remember that last year in the game at OU I think it was Travis's best game of last year. He didn't really "struggle" last night - he just didn't even ATTEMPT to struggle. 0-1, really?!?!?! 1 shot attempt?!?!?!

Steve Zimmerman 6 years, 3 months ago

jhwks you rock. I suddenly realize how bad of a fan I was. I've been overreacting too immaturely. It's my bad. HCBS is the greatest coach on earth. He knows what he's doing. He will 'fix' this situation. I love watching good KU games. Let's hope to see some hungry plays from the team. We really need to see some offense from this point on. Let's go Jayhawks! (yeah, I don't think my post will be deleted this time!)

Joseph Bullock 6 years, 3 months ago

Did I really hear someone say it is time for a Coaching change? In a different thread, I actually put a lot of the blame for this, and the OSU loss, on Coach Self, but there was never, ever, even a hint of me saying, or wanting to get rid of him. That is absolutely "Ridiculous"!!! We will get our game back, and all of you dayum "Fair Weather Fans" probably have rooted for K.U. in Basketball, and K-State in Football. Pathetic!

s6u6r6f 6 years, 3 months ago

The inability to watch many games is usually a curse, but today it became a blessing. Gamecast is not as painful as eyefuls of misery. I watched an unmoving screen with the score locked at 0 - 2 for so long I thought the net was down. It was discombobulating. Painful. It was like a two-seed losing to a 128-seed in a madly expanded tournament. But let's spin positive: perhaps this aberration will be this team's VCU, its Bradley, its Belmont. Thinking metamagically, perhaps now a curse has been used up, a curse that will now not fall in the first or second round of the tourney. Rock chalk.

Mick Allen 6 years, 3 months ago

Belmont never beat us. Get your losses straight.

s6u6r6f 6 years, 3 months ago

I stand corrected. Damn Bs. Rock chalk.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

I had the same situation - don't have the U and was keeping track, the first I saw of it, it was something like 33-19 TCU and there was like 13 minutes left in the game. I was like....um, 19 points in 27 mins.?!?!? What?!?!?!? That can't be right....oH, I know, they have it reversed....KU's actually winning 33-19. Then when I saw we were on the short end again the next time, 37-21, I was like....ok, Withey must've gone out injured or something.

PhearThePhog 6 years, 3 months ago

Positive words to build up ones fragile self-esteem isn't gonna turn this ship around. That's our problem ... we're soft. Keep getting in their grill, Coach, and see who wants to step up and play Kansas basketball. ROCK CHALK!!!!

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

I think the approach between the OSU game and the TCU game was hard-nosed, all-out ball, etc.

I think they've gotta' step back and get a little more analytical now. Something's NOT following the same script as what we saw when they were doing pretty da*n well back in Dec. Find the difference & fix-it. It's NOT JUST shooting. For one, get more shots in the frontcourt and less perimeter jumpers and/or drives to the bucket by Tharpe or EJ.

Michael Bratisax 6 years, 3 months ago

A more positive outlook will not help a soft team. Withey, without TRob, has regressed. He makes the same mistakes that he always does. Withey still brings the ball down before making a dunk attempt. Often being stripped by players 8-10 inches shorter. Some white players really cannot jump.

We need a PG desperately..Self gets credit for that. Like or hate TT, he never backed down.

I've changed my mind on who is the best freshman in the Big 12 and Smart is clearly ahead of the rest. We will make the NCAA but might not make it through the first week, Sweet 16 is the best we will do and that's no sure thing.

Looking ahead to next year

Mick Allen 6 years, 3 months ago

Wooden also had Sam Gilbert buying him players.

REHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

If I'm rotation player #9 or #10, I will look for a halftime moment to slip away to find the equipment manager, see if I can be issued a plain grey warmup with snug drawstring hood so that I can huddle on the far end of the bench incognito, unattached from this Meltdown.

Rocky Curtis 6 years, 3 months ago

My biggest frustration comes from watching Jeff and Travis play without (imho) passion. They both needed to step up. Isn't that what we all expected from Ty last year? Travis was just a "wall flower" waiting to asked to dance. How disappointing!

Mel Clare 6 years, 3 months ago

Self did not make a strong enough statement to EJ.

Tharpe should have started but not shoot as much! White should have played more because he is a better shooter than EJ Releford ALOT better than he has shown lately

When your senior back court is what 2 for forever? You can not win any games......

Oklahoma and K Satae are drooling right now wanting to face this team!

Gerry Butler 6 years, 3 months ago

i understand where your comin from on your statement about those teams droolin at the chance to play us, however sayin that i really do feel this will be turned around and soon, the factors may not be as strong at oklahoma, not sayin that it shouldn't be mind you but just a gut feeling as bad as this is, can't get any lower then this reached rock bottom last night but i just have this gut feeling about monday night. hopefully we can get a win and some positve things saturday one game at a time i realize but i just feel that on monday even though Kstate is playing decent ball that they may just be walking into a lion's den with the hawks THEY maybe be confident. maybe a little to confident and i just feel all the ingredients are there for the hawks. Nu 1. the guys will be wanting to make up for the last home game, Nu 2 it is Kstate. Nu 3 they will be playing with a spot of sole possession of being 1st in the leauge again Nu 4 the place is gonna be rockin. i just feel that its goona happen monday. now could these all turn out to be negetive things for the hawks to? possibly maybe just more aded pressure to the guys but i just believe. and thats is WITH MY HEAD not my heart. GO HAWKS

Aligned 6 years, 3 months ago

Last week we were not as good as people thought we were and this week we’re not as bad as most think. We just have to find a way to convince our points that they’re not shooting guards.

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

They ARE shooting guards.

Shooting blanks.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

I think this is true. But despite that - what seemed like a foregone conclusion of 9th Big XII title's looking sketchy at best now (though "technically" would be theirs right now by tie-break over K-State).

PhearThePhog 6 years, 3 months ago

I don't think the root of this problem is HCBS or team confidence ... it's a team that has a complete lack of fire and intensity. Does HCBS play a role in that ... yes. But, he can't make these guys play with heart. We're stepping onto the court expecting to win instead of coming out with the resolve to win. Especially when playing at home or against a team we should beat ... which are most of them. We didn't see that team show up at Ohio State. While Withey's numbers were OK last night I think he exhibits this lax attitude the most. He should have dominated that game last night with no double team. He's not prepared to move when he gets the ball down low and is rarely in position for rebounds when he wasn't pulled away from the basket. Can't tell you how many times I watched him stand around watching the game happen around him. This was far from a one man loss but it's that mindset that has this team in a funk. The players need to decide amongst themselves, like the 2008 team, to go out from the tip-off to the horn and play winning basketball ... high energy, crisp passes, solid screens, boxout rebounds, smart ballhandleing, etc. HCBS can draw it up but they must execute ... and it's pretty obvious that they aren't. They need to start playing up to the demands of the AFH pre-game video and not see it as their birthright.

Ray Winger 6 years, 3 months ago

If you can't play with skill,,,due to lack of confidence or whatever, then play with effort. Why did you even show up??

Mike Barnhart 6 years, 3 months ago

Over the last 10 years we've seen Coach Self adjust his teams style of play to the talent on the floor. He's won with NBA talent and he's won with over achievers. What's different this season?:

  1. We don't pass well. Good Self teams move the ball side to side without the ball "sticking."

  2. We don't disrupt passing lanes and get easy transition baskets.

  3. We don't pass a lot of toughness test. Read Jay Bilas' "Toughness" essay and it's so obvious... we're soft! http://www.mdbball.com/Documents/ToughnessbyJayBilas.pdf

  4. Danny Manning and Barry Hinson are gone, replaced by Doc Sadler... Just sayin'!

  5. Two coaches have sons on the team. Is this disruptive?

  6. We usually have a guard rotation with a primary handler. Not sure what to call our back court this year; a two playing the one spot and a couple of 2/3 hybrids?

  7. Coach Self doesn't seem to be taking responsibility. He keeps blaming players but the team looks poorly coached right now.

Point is, this feels different than most years. Coach Self needs to evaluate what's changed and get back to what's worked well in the past.

JakeBarnes 6 years, 3 months ago

Since you are listing things maybe you or someone should ask if they are smoking something new.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

Heck....just get back to what worked well a month and a half ago!!!! :)

Max Kandinsky 6 years, 3 months ago

Every coach's plan on how to beat KU in several simple steps... Offense, draw Jeff to a high screen, pass quickly to the back side for an easy shot, and if you miss, crash the boards for an easy put-back. Defense, pack it in the middle, go under screens to prevent the drive and jump the easy pass around the perimeter. When they shoot the 3, block out for an easy rebound. When your confidence grows, shoot from anywhere and you'll be able to have your best game ever.

kellerman411 6 years, 3 months ago

Elijah needs to just keep shooting! His stroke looks pretty good it just wasn't falling until there at the end. Just keep shooting!

KRIMSONANDBLU 6 years, 3 months ago

Not the first or last. .....losses suck, but at least your still breathing and lucky you get to whine about something that is out of your Control....Go KU season is still young and winnable....When KU is firing on all cylindars they are a joy to watch. we usually do to teams what they did to us.....GUT CHECK!

oldrocker 6 years, 3 months ago

It seems to me that Dr. Evil stole our MoJo...Bill needs to go back to December and get it back!

Jonathan Allison 6 years, 3 months ago

Bill Self said before the season started that this team would struggle to score. So I guess this loss just proves that coach knows what he's talking about.

AsadZ 6 years, 3 months ago

What has happened to this team from Dec to Jan/Febb is mind bogglin

I mean we beat OSU on their turf

We beat very good teams in Colarado, Belmont, Richmond etc by large margins

And now we lose to TCU after a home loss to Okie State

What has caused this dramatic collapse?

What has changed?

A lot of questions but no clear answer?

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

I think that was a "hangover" game....that was the one right after the Mich. St. loss, right?

Steve Yeakel 6 years, 3 months ago

This team has issues, and I am glad they are being exposed now, with time still left to hopefully fix them, rather than limp into the NCAA tourney and get knocked out in the first or second round by a Northern Illinois or a Killer B team. It is the NCAA tourney that is important, the purpose of the regular season is to be your best by then. This team is the one that Coach Self recruited and coaches, so maybe there should be a limit to his badmouthing them and throwing them under the bus. Bill needs to solve use of the high low when no one is guarding the high, trying to apply backcourt pressure when Withey's man is wide open to break the pressure, needs to move EJ to backup and give Naadir time to become a good or great starting point guard, needs to teach wings like Relaford and McLemore to be good dribblers, needs to keep giving Perry chances to get going, lots of coaching that needs to be done here as well. Bill is a great coach, I would never trade him for anyone, but he has to meet this challenge as well.

Mel Clare 6 years, 3 months ago

Why did Releford only take one shot? Why wont Self leave Ellis in for more than 2 minutes so he can get into a rythm of some sort? If the guards were shooting so damn bad why did he not let White or rio stay in longer than he di? I believe White and McClemore are the only ones who can stretch the defense at this time. I think that losing the kid from Texas and red shirting Lucas that our interior depth is hurting us right now. Losing a 6'9 230 and a 6'10 230 guy can only hurt you! No inside scoring threats except Whithey and he does not have enough muscle to move anyone!

Next years class is a huge help......BIG guard, Big wing, BIG Embid............shooter in Frankamp............

I do hope McClemore stays one more season.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

Ellis?!?!?! Really, you're going to tout Ellis?!?!?! Dude, he was given the first 14 1/2 mins. of this game in a start for the first time since the Mich. St. loss and went 0-1, 1 Rbd., 1 TO & 1 Foul. Pretty ugly 14 1/2 mins.!!!!!!

I do agree with not agreeing w/ Self redshirting Lucas. That decision already came AFTER it was thought that Peters's injury was serious.

I couldn't believe that he was saying that we had enough front-court depth w/ Withey, P. Ellis, Traylor, K. Young & Wesley.....two of which were freshmen.

David Gisi 6 years, 3 months ago

I thought I would wake up this morning and discover that game was just part of a nightmare. I can't believe that Coach Self could make me laugh after that game, but this quote did: "The great thing,” Self cracked, “is we had three assists on our three baskets. We were really sharing the ball.” I really thought after one of those timeouts we were just gonna see a complete lineup overhaul and put everyone responsible for that fiasco on the bench. Not sure the coaches kide with Rio and White on the floor could've been much worse. Normally, i would complain about Tharpe shooting so much, but at least he took it at the basket and got to the line. Travis won't shoot and no one else can make a basket. How do you fix that? The coaches can't go out and shoot the ball, but it sure seems like they should be able to fix the fact that everybody just looks lost out there. EJ stops his dribble while moving to his right at the top of the key for no real reason and looks to pass behind him and theres no one there. At times it just seems like they are going through motions and have no ability to react to what the opposition is doing. Its as if the only way they can play is if the other team does exactly what KU expects them to do in any given situation.

NoteToSelf 6 years, 3 months ago

I have been watching KU basketball since I was in college at KU in the mid 70's. This is easily the worst game I have ever seen a KU team play and maybe the worst EVER. However suggesting HCBS should be fired is absurd. He tried AW3 (air ball), Rio, Wesley, and even Nico with no success. I agree that we could use a better PG because EJ isn't a true PG. A PG should be the easiest position on the floor to recruit since there are so many in High School. That is on Bill.

I don't know why Travis doesn't shoot more. Why, why, why? What happened to the "high low" pass that got KU so many easy buckets? That is on Bill.

I will be in Norman for the KU game on Saturday and hope they break out of this funk. Students better "bring it" on Big Monday for the KSU game. The Hawks obviously need all the help they can get. RCJH.

Mike Gammill 6 years, 3 months ago

Since the win @ Ohio St., we've been thinking/playing as if all we have to do is show up. We're overrated, have been for several weeks, and aren't the darlings that we think.

Hopefully, this will be the wake up call we've needed.

Dan Harris 6 years, 3 months ago

The overrated chant started with a couple of minutes to go,very embarrassing.

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

That chant is my favorite thing in all of college basketball.

What it really says is:

" We're not good enough to beat a good team, so you must be OVER-RATED "

Jonathan Allison 6 years, 3 months ago

Exactly how I feel about it, nuleaf!

They should chant that their own team is under-rated, or at least point out that the highly ranked team may have over-looked them.

ccarp 6 years, 3 months ago

Someone please fire up the treadmill!

ATR920 6 years, 3 months ago

The biggest mistake Self ever made at KU was recruiting ans signing Josh Selby. This goes back to him. By getting involved with Selby we got ourselves into one of the dirtiest recruitments and ended up bringing in a bad player that did nothing at KU. What does this have to do with this team? Well if we recruit another point guard he would be a junior leading this team today instead of trying to have a SG be our pg. But the biggest thing Selby did to KU and Self was ruined our reputation and our ability to bring in any good pg. We took the #1 player in the class and left as a terrible 2nd round bust. Now anytime we recruit a PG the other coaches recruiting that PG just have to bring up Selby and we have no shot. We havent been able to sign a PG since Selby for a reason. And to make it worse we dont have a PG coming in next year either we missed out on about 10 different guys. If people think Frank Mason is going to be our savior at PG, you will be dissappointed.

Mike Barnhart 6 years, 3 months ago

Hmmm, bygones! Had lots of chances to sign other guards.

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

WOW.

That's deep, man.

I came up with a lot of different scenarios as to why we got our butts kicked last night, but I was never savvy enough to come up with the "blame it on Selby" one.

Good job!

Jonathan Allison 6 years, 3 months ago

I can blame Turner Gill, Lew Perkins, ESPN, John Calipari, Dick Vitale, Dayne Crist, Dean Smith, Jerry McNamara, and MAYBE even Danny Manning, but I don't think I can blame Self for signing Selby.

And on second though, I can't blame Danny Manning at all, he was a part of both of our national titles of the past 50 years.

Dan Harris 6 years, 3 months ago

Well that sucked! First game I've been able to attend in person in over two years and I'm treated to whatever the hell that was. Surrounded by TCU fans at work so it should be a fun day! As for the game, a couple of observations.

  1. Withey plays like a 7 footer on defense but on offense he tries to play like he's 6' 5"
  2. EJ has ZERO confidence right now. Time to start Tharpe for a few games.
  3. Nadar was the only player that had any energy and looked like he gave a damn(although he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn).
  4. The dribble weave is worthless without something going on behind it.
  5. Our defense was great for the first 30 seconds of the shot clock but kept breaking down in the last 5 seconds OR giving them second chances by not blocking out.
  6. I think I'm getting the TCU flu and might not be able to make it in to work, cough,cough,sniff,sniff!! RCJH!!!

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

Hopefully, I don't go through the same thing. Set to attend the game in Norman on Sat. & I'm surrounded by OU fans at work.

hjarrett 6 years, 3 months ago

Does everyone firget that the 2008 team lost 3 games before winning it all. No, not 2 in a row, but sometimes the team has to be knocked down a peg, in this case 2, to begin to play to their true potential. Rock Chalk fair weather fans!

addlime 6 years, 3 months ago

This team will lose a lot more than 3

hawkdiek 6 years, 3 months ago

That team had natural leaders on it. This one does not!

jbal32 6 years, 3 months ago

Jason King said from an RPI standpoint this is the worst upset in the last 20 years. I couldn't believe what I was seeing last night. Well at least we got this years' Davidson, Northern Iowa, and VCU loss out of the way early. That's a positive........ right?

Jack Wilson 6 years, 3 months ago

Although it's cloudy, the sun did come up today.

This team is lacking in chemistry. It's an intangible. It's tough to pin down. It's something last year's team developed. This team doesn't have it yet.

Coach Self is the man that has to deliver the solutions. Reasonably, we should expect Self to learn from his mistakes. But many coaches are stubborn. I tend to think that coach Self will become for flexible if he loses more. Otherwise, his approach is completely vindicated in his mind as losses are rare events .. ones that although shocking (Bucknell, Bradley, UNI, VCU, for example) .. he can write off tournament oddities.

But I am pretty confident that coach Self does not believe that he has contributed in any significant way to the above losses, or any other loss. I think he believes firmly in what he does. No real slam there. Folks that are great at what they do have to be arrogant and confident.

And to be sure, Self has reason to be arrogant and confident. Without doubt, what he does wins us games. Remember that. Although we can criticize, his methods win us games. Meaning, on all levels we win games in large part because of our coach.

My only criticisms of coaching are really just tweaks -- recognize earlier when to spice in the press every other or every third change of possession; recognize the game dynamic a little earlier and be a bit more flexible on going with other personnel options; and on a big picture level, give guys more playing time who you may need to help you later so we're not dealing with a rusty, unprepared player.

That's it.

As I said, the sun did come up today. This is a nondescript conference loss. Who cares? Really, who cares? If we don't win the conference title this season, I won't lose any sleep. We have the last eight.

The key now is for the players to understand that what they may have thought they were entitled to, is not an entitlement. And for coach Self to take this mix of players and get the trajectory pointed upward. We have been humbled .. when I say "we", I mean you, me, the coaches, and the players. We. KU. And that's a good thing.

After all, this is about March (and April), not February.

And by the way, I was very disappointed .. my headline would have been "Great Horny Toads". In deference to Yosemite Sam, of course. No such luck.

Hank Cross 6 years, 3 months ago

I agree except that I don't think Self can tweak his personality. Midway thru that dreadful 1st half I would've loved to seen him throw back his head, laugh, and tell Rio and AW3 to get in there and show them how its done. Instead he went right to the fingernail chew and hung on to EJ and Rele like grim death - like he didn't believe that the team could come back in the 2nd half.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

About the ONLY thing that I liked about Roy's teams vs. Bill's. Roy would get so fed up with the started I remember games where he wouldn't even just go to the 2nd-stringers, he'd bring in like Whatley or C.B. McGrath or Christian Moody to make a point. Or he would bring in the 2nd-stringers and bench the ENTIRE starting unit. I liked when he would make those grand gestures and it USUALLY worked!

KGphoto 6 years, 3 months ago

Nice one, HEM. I honestly feel a bit relieved by the loss. By both the losses. The win streaks fester, itch, and blur your vision, hampering your progress as a team. We needed a spanking. A lancing if you will, to relieve the pressure and regain focus.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 6 years, 3 months ago

Are you serious?

He's been that critical all year long of all his teams.

That's a stupid, stupid theory.

NebraskaJayhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

You're right. Maybe we better see if Turner Gill is interested in coaching basketball.

FearlessJayhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

I guess it's time to get out my golf clubs and practice my chippin and puttin.

BCRavenJHawkfan 6 years, 3 months ago

Forget talking about the lack of offense or lack of energy or inability to go inside or lack of a go to player or blah, blah, blah.....

These guys have suddenly lost any FUNDAMENTAL skills.

I'm talking 8th grade level dribbling, passing, rebounding.

Myself, I lost interest in this circus early last night and switched over to watch The Americans on FX.

TexasRockChalk 6 years, 3 months ago

Good perspective HEM. I was at the game last night and was shocked like everyone else. I did my grad school work at TCU and of course, was pro-KU the whole way.

I slept maybe an hour or two the whole night. The Mrs. had to remind me the sun did come up this morning....as dark and gloomy things seem to be.

If we win at OU and beat KSU we'll be back on track....I keep telling myself anyway :)

DanR 6 years, 3 months ago

It's 13-22 at halftime, and coach can't stop himself from pointing out mistakes on defense: ....... Of the first half, Self noted: “It was awful, but even as bad as it was, and it was horrendous, if we are sound defensively and get stops at the end of the clock, we are down four to six as opposed to nine.”

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

hard to believe that already dowan and playing as bad as they were that TCU proceeds to outscored them 15-8 to start the 2nd half as well. HOW IN THE HECK DOES THAT HAPPEN?!?!?!?!?

Reuben_J_Cogburn 6 years, 3 months ago

The simple fact is this...

We went from arrogant going into the OSU game on Saturday, to completely disheveled and timid last night.

Quite the mentality switch.

This game at OU is shaping out to be the most important game of the season. If we don't find our way back to sanity, it will be a long, fruitless season.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

Agreed. I think they CAN still recover. I don't think they do to a meaningful degree if they lose the game in Norman.

Lose that game and I see no better than a loss in their opening rds. of BOTH the Big XII & NCAA Tournaments.

Win that game and maybe it's a new start similar to after our slow-start and ugly performance in that Tenn.-Chattanooga game.....that game was the start of the 18 game win streak. Maybe the OU game could be the start of something like whatever game came after Tenn.-Chattanooga.

Justin Lindsley 6 years, 3 months ago

No point guard. No leader. Tharpe isn't going to be any better than EJ. What about next year? I hope that Mason or Frankamp can run the show, because if they can't.....we are going to be right back here next year.

Ellis has got to figure this game out. We desperately need some scoring. Where was Ghost? One shot in an entire game. Maybe he would have been on fire and made 4-5 threes. How will we ever know now? Pathetic show from a senior "led" group!

Jim Jackson 6 years, 3 months ago

Guys, what about putting Anrio out there? Does anyone else think he gives us a better shot to win? I say we ease him in with repetitions and have Elijah split time with him to take the pressure off of him.

Thoughts?

CINCYHAWKFAN 6 years, 3 months ago

Here is what I find worrisome... and I haven’t exactly heard Coach Self address it: Jeff simply doesn’t demand a double team from opposing defenses. We don’t have a four that has demonstrated the ability to be an offensive threat at all. Coach talks about the poor play the last several games, but there has also been a change in the way teams defend us. No one runs double teams at Jeff – or worries about Kevin or Perry from the high post. They are focusing on our guarding our perimeter and inviting the post players to beat us. I am not so sure this can be solved with the personnel we have on the roster. Any thoughts?

Justin Kruse 6 years, 3 months ago

Seriously, I think we'll be alright. Embarrassed, yes. Humbled, hopefully. But still Kansas.

I would have liked to see more of Jamari in there w/ Withey. I think he's got more of the mentality and physicality we needed last night. Also, I think White could have come in sooner but then he air balled his first attempt so who knows. Can't remember a game where everyone was off as much as last night.

Bill Self still has my vote for President. Rock Chalk

Reuben_J_Cogburn 6 years, 3 months ago

There are still 329 teams out there that would gladly trade their season...or their entire history...for one of KU's seasons.

We will bounce back. Like you said....at the end of the day, we're still Kansas.

rush24 6 years, 3 months ago

This sense of entitlement that we will be fine b/c we are Kansas is the same attitude that caused the utter humiliation of last night. This team has been exposed and has major problems. No leader, no offensive plan, no passion, no intensity, etc. Until KU finds a PG and someone besides BMac that can consistently score, this team is going nowhere. Hate to say it but the conference streak looks to end at 8STR8.

Justin Kruse 6 years, 3 months ago

No "sense of entitlement" here buddy. We're just spoiled year after year w/ outstanding basketball and when we lose a game, God forbid two in a row, we've got a coach that needs to go, a team w/out talent and heart, and on and on and on. Yeah, last night was the biggest embarrassment we've seen, but that didn't show this team's true identity. When it's all said and done, it will be 9 straight and a deep tourney run. Just wait until Saturday after we beat OU and everyone will be back on the bandwagon.

W Keith Swinehart II 6 years, 3 months ago

The classless, disrespectful headline of this article sums up the attitude that led to the loss. Even in the Big 12 one should respect his "lowly" opponent.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 6 years, 3 months ago

0-9 in conference play coming into last night?

I'd call that pretty lowly, brother.

DaNeille Dani Davis 6 years, 3 months ago

I just want to smack Releford up side the head and wake his a$$ up! What was wrong with him last night? He shied away from shooting and he's our best shooter! Shoot the damn ball TR!!

Reuben_J_Cogburn 6 years, 3 months ago

While you're at it, why don't you go ahead and smack Johnson, Young, Tharpe, Withey, Ellis, Traylor, White III, Wesley, and yes, even McLemore.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

Um, I don't see why Traylor or White III would warrant it.

Micky Baker 6 years, 3 months ago

The world didn't come to an end last night. The players need an attitude adjustment. No, they weren't intimidated last night. Their heads weren't in the game until it was too late. They didn't execute, because they thought they could just show up and win last night. The most embarrassed are the players. They missed shots they normally make. They made defensive plays that ended up skipping of their hands into a TCU player that the pass wasn't intended for. We played bad, TCU didn't play good. This is fixable, but it's the attitude of the players and up to them to wake up. Bill Self already knows and I'm pretty sure he has told them. I hope they read this. You, the players have control over fixing this. ATTITUDE, Killer Instinct, EFFORT. Remember, the things that got Kansas into the National Championship game a year ago. It wasn't that long ago, but the world didn't end last night.

Andy Godwin 6 years, 3 months ago

You must understand that other teams have uncovered the myriad of weaknesses Self has been able to disguise for most of the season and other coaches are now exploiting. The game plan since the Temple has become clear and each coach has focused on double teaming Withey or being more physical which is not difficult (when is the last time you have seen the classic high-low offense work, because Withey is not pushing his man up the lane to create any opening passing angles to catch and lay the ball in), ignore the 4 because Young or Ellis are not going to beat you night in and night out, and overplay the passing lanes because KU ball handlers are careless ( more transition baskets this year by the opposing team). Add in forcing the point guard to score, you have a recipe for each team's game plan. The emperor has no clothes and KU is much easier to scout and defend. Prepare for many more frustrations. Great shooting would hide some of the problems; however, KU does not have great outside shooters night in and night out.

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

The city of Manhattan, Ks and the whole state of Missouri will be printing T-shirts today.

They'll be spelled wrong, but they'll be printing them.

Brian Skelly 6 years, 3 months ago

The extreme emotions here arent required or apt. The loss isnt "nothing" and its not "the end of the world". More likely in the middle of that somewhere. Or at least not as end of the world as folks here are making it. Calm down chicken littles.

The reality is this game was lost from the neck up and anyone who watched it saw we were in shock most of the night. All of us amateur psychologists here arent coming up with anything that this coaching staff probably wasnt already aware about.

Self has been right though. This team has been soft physically all year. After last nights 'performance' you can put us down as being soft mentally as well. I personally didnt think Self's public dressing down of EJ over the weekend was smart... and tonights game makes me think that assessment was correct.

Self's acknowledgement of us not having a PG is correct. Of course who's fault is that? It's not like he had a PG leave early for the draft... he had two years to come up recruiting-wise with an option better than what we have and didnt/couldnt. All the other stuff floating around out there is real and is a factor. But at its core we dont have a guy who can round up this crew when we're outta our minds like we've been for the past few weeks.

Time for folks to keep expectations in check id say.

Tony Bandle 6 years, 3 months ago

Never, never, never has the loss of Zach Peters been more evident than last night:

1] Jeff - Finesse player. 2] Kevin - Skinny. 3] BenMac - Skinny. 4] Travis - Short. 5] Elijah - Out of position. 6] Perry - Finesse Player. 7] Nadiir - Short. 8] Jamari - Raw. 9] AWIII - Raw. 10 Rio - Raw. 11] Landon - Redshirt.

You all can see, Zach could have been that "animal" that could mix it up and protect his teammates not unlike a hockey enforcer. We have no bruiser to counteract an opponent's goon. It's more than a matter of being soft.....it's also a matter of being undersized.

Maybe we need to take off the redshirt on Lucas and throw him into the mix, although that sounds pretty desperate at this point.

objectiveKUfan 6 years, 3 months ago

First post so bare with me....

Remember the Michigan St. game when Self told the media that this team was too quiet on the floor? The only person that speaks is Kevin Young and he was injured that game? Maybe THAT is this teams problem. Zero communication. No floor general. No leadership on the floor. No one screaming and yelling on the floor. Our Seniors are beyond passive, Releford the most obvious choice here. Remember when Collins would waive off his team and take the last shot when the offense wasn't working? Has EJ ever done this? The only person I see with any confidence, any signs of life is NAADIR THARPE, a SOPH! Now do Tharpe and EJ even get along? Comments have been made in the past that they are competitive in practice and get at each other more than anyone else. Tharpe is willing to put this team on his back, but will the seniors let him? Will these passive seniors listen to a soph? I believe this is one of those intangibles that Self won't be able to solve on this squad.....

One more thing....I'm not sure why Releford gets so much love. I understand he is a stud defender and his numbers show he's a great shooter but that's only cause most of his pts. are on the fast break!! Honestly, he only comes alive when he's in Sprint Center playing in front of family. Other than that he reverts back into his shell. I'm sorry to say but this team led full of seniors all have a bit of Releford-itus...ducking between their tails and hiding when they're called upon....intangibles that Self is struggling to find answers for...for the last 4 yrs he hasn't had an answer for.....

I believe leadership is this teams number one problem and that is extremely sad considering the fact that this team has four red shirt seniors coming off a national title run.

jayhawkeratheart 6 years, 3 months ago

It's so bad even "Jaybate" is speechless, must be hiding under that rock, you know, rock bottom.

jaybate 6 years, 3 months ago

jayhawkeratheart,

Yeah, I've got some rock burn, but I did post a little farther down.

jayhawkeratheart 6 years, 3 months ago

You were the only one I knew by heart that I could pick on. And I didn't have anything intelligent to add to post, so you were singled out. Glad to read your post.

DallasJayhawk1 6 years, 3 months ago

I was at the game. I've never seen us so lethargic. I never question Self but he should have pulled the starters to send a message. There was no energy, no one wanting to step up. I'm a little worried now that we are going to have a confidence problem. Not having a PG with toughness and playing with an edge like Taylor or Collins that can also run the offense is becoming more and more apparent.

Alan Mills 6 years, 3 months ago

Extremely disappointing performance last night by the Jayhawks. I would agree with many, in my 40 years of following KU basketball, I cannot remember a team playing worse from wire to wire. However, I remain ever optimistic that these Jayhawks will right the ship. We have all seen what they are capable of, and it is good.

That being said, there are some things that really concern me, especially coming off last night's game: 1. I'm really tired of hearing about how good Perry Ellis is. He simply isn't. Being good in high school, or in practice, is not the same as performing in games. He doesn't show up. He has, with one exception, been a non-factor or even a liability in every game he's played this year. Having grown up and played high school basketball in Kansas, it is concerning that he is the best player to come out of the state in the last 4 years! Good players show up for games. I was glad he didn't return last night. 2. Why does Nadir Tharpe have the green light? He cannot make a layup, not just last night, and he is a suspect perimeter shooter. He should have a red light, perhaps tinted slightly orange. He looks, as he did last year, totally nervous the entire time he is on the court. Again, good players don't show those nerves all the time, like he does. 3. Johnson is clearly slowed by injury. No other way around it. He had two weeks back in December where the team played only games on Saturdays, and he got some of his legs back. Since then, it's been downhill every game. He cannot guard, and he has almost nothing in his drives or shots. That's fine, because he is the leader of the team. But, he has to play within his limitations. Time to admit the injury and move forward. 4. Defense was the worst I've seen in years, certainly going back to the Williams era, the last several games. The players are unable to get through screens, unable to stop penetration, and unable to rebound. When you rely on help two or three times in a possession, bad things happen. That's where the team was last night. It's time to get back to guarding your man, taking pride in guarding your man, and not simply relying on the help every play. We've all seen this team defend, so they can certainly do it. 5. Free throws hurt the Jayhawks again last night. This has been a recurring theme this year. Unfortunately, you can practice free throws forever and still miss in games. I think the free throw shooting is a clear sign of nerves. When you are confidant, you make free throws. Look at TCU last night. They had all the confidence in the world in the second half, of course. So, guys that shoot 50% or less hit their free throws. That one is on the coaches, and not just Coach Self. They have to work hard to instill confidence in the players. I'm sure they are trying, but in my humble opinion, they must redouble their efforts on that front.

These are all things that can be addressed before Saturday.

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Man - I really wanted Kentucky and/or N. Carolina to be the laughingstock of college basketball this year.........

KUfreebird 6 years, 3 months ago

Yeah our offense is a little slow lately but those guys had no intensity and missed several wide open looks off plays that Bill designed. Its not Bills fault if he was out there he would have ran the floor a lot better than Johnson. The players just need to have more fight and more confidence, but to put the blame all on Bill is ridiculous. Those guys were the top ranked basketball players in the country coming out of high school. If they cant take some responsibility and step up and play to their potential then yeah there going to loose games. All year we've rarely had the whole team playing their heart out and still managed to win. Now they need to understand everyone has to play hard at all times or they can loose to anyone. The talent is there the heart just isn't.

And anyone on here who thinks they're a better coach than Bill is just plain stupid. So save all your 'suggestions' and 'criticisms' because Bill doesn't care and neither should any true KU fan.

offline 6 years, 3 months ago

TCU Trent out coached Self on all levels. It is time for Self to leave, as he has been overdue for the last 3 years. It all started with recruiting B Morningstar and playing him as he was a complete dud, while Johnson sit on the bench. What a dumb move on Self, and people have said so from the fans and media. ESPN were saying that Kansas wasn't recruiting and the experts were saying "where is kansas". You could see this disaster.coming. If a coach can't get a better performance out of a mediocre team, as this is, he better be replaced.

Now replacement of Self. KU presently has a head coach on the bench and that would be Doc Sadler who just came to KU. He could have gotton a win out of this, even with the mediocre players that are on this team now. This will cost KU in recruiting for years to come, so if you are a KU, fan be ready for a pretty tuff ride for the next few years. As Self said this "this is the worst team KU has ever put on the floor" and guess what that coming from a despicable coach. This is worst than Bucknell, Northwestern Iowa, VCU and the then other teams. Self has made a laughing stock out KU as far as basketball.

Kansas ST.will be the basketball team in the state of Kansas.

KU, kiss your @ss good bye.

offline 6 years, 3 months ago

KST. won the conference in football and looks like they will contend for the basketball.

Benjamin Piehler 6 years, 3 months ago

Too bad we haven't played yet this year.... Oh wait, we did. We won in your house... Again.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 6 years, 3 months ago

One year....emphasis on "contending."

Come back when KSU wins 8 straight conference championships.

I still won't listen to you then. So...come back when they win a national championship...in anything.

offline 6 years, 3 months ago

Don't look for any more championships, unless they replace Self with Doc Sadler.

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Now, now. Don't forget the National Livestock Judging Championships.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 6 years, 3 months ago

And on that note....why don't you drag yourself back to this site when K-State manages to win a BCS bowl game.

You talk about Bill Self choking in the spotlight, but as far as I can see, there's no bigger choke artist and Bill Snyder in bowl games.

offline 6 years, 3 months ago

Kansas ST. was rated number 1 in football, was ku?

Mike Barnhart 6 years, 3 months ago

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yours is stupid!

JakeBarnes 6 years, 3 months ago

If you are a lady I sure will "bare with" you. If your a man, no dice. I will "bear" what you have to say.

BTW, didn't have to bear much. You made sense.

Colby Hebert 6 years, 3 months ago

I overlooked TCU as well. Instead of heading somewhere to watch the game, I stayed in with my girl watching DVD's of the 70's series Wonder Woman.

I am glad I got to watch Lynda Carter run around instead of TCU embarrassing us.

We have had some bad losses in the tournament, we have fell to a few trap games since I have been a fan, but never ever have I checked a score in a KU game and it shows 7:36 left in the first half and we have two points. I thought ESPN's site was broken. This was a truly historic loss. TCU is not a feisty mid major in the tournament who got hot with outside shooting and beat us. TCU may be the worst team we have ever had in the BIG 12. They were not even full strength, they were down two starters. They are not even close to being an NIT team. Unacceptable.

I am not the sky is falling type, but this was not Kansas basketball. This should not happen with 4 seniors starting, ever. I support all the players and staff but this should not be a wake up call, this is like being dragged out of bed and tarred and feathered before your morning coffee.

If I was Bill Self my starting lineup next game would be Rio, AWIII, Ben, Wesley and Traylor. Even if it is just for the tip-off until the first chance to substitute. Show the seniors, especially 5th year seniors, that this is unacceptable at Kansas. I played sports, the A team is usually guys who have security and roles and are not fighting for playing time. They play for pride, for championships. If that is not enough, put the B Team out there awhile, these guys are playing to prove they belong on the court, and at least their effort will be there.

.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

I think I agree with the starting unit.....although I might at least sub. in Withey for Wesley.

sbucks 6 years, 3 months ago

Hey coach, please no more three hour team meetings, I think you wore them out!

machinegun 6 years, 3 months ago

Big Bill wants to focus on wins and losses rather than stats. We are sitting at 19-3 and tied for first. OK-got it.

But how do you miss that many bunnies every doggone game? Crappy shooting continues...inside, outside, and everywhere in between. This situation is not about lack of coaching. Big Bill is working as hard as ever.

Elijah Johnson as the leader of our team must fulfill his obligations. This situation is about players not getting their minds right. Their heads are full of scrambled eggs right now. For Elijah, who must lead by example, this is a good place to start because his head is not in the game for some reason.

Max Ledom 6 years, 3 months ago

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. If I knew we had THIS many coaches better than Self, I would have made the move years ago, and just have all of you coach from the bench! I'm sure you know much more than Self. I'm sure you could all do a better job. Shut up. This is not on coach at all. I saw a group of players that looked like they didn't even FEEL like playing basketball yesterday. They looked like they didn't want to win! That is not on coach! These two losses happened because the players were not doing what they needed to! It does make me laugh though, losing 2 games in a row means the sky is falling for us. I think we all have been a little spoiled and needed a reality check. We weren't going to go 2000+ games without consecutive losses. It happens. Now, shut up and believe. This is the same team that went on the road and BEAT Ohio State. The same team that DISMANTLED Colorado. The same team that went on the road and BEAT KState. We are National Championship caliber. Not a doubt in my mind.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 6 years, 3 months ago

Saturday's game will determine my drinking habits for the next two months.

If we win, I will be that happy, fun drunk that everyone wants to be around.

Lose, and I will more than likely be the guy sitting in his living room with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver.

Please, Bill.....please don't let me become that guy.

Robert Murphy 6 years, 3 months ago

What KU needs is more coaches. They only have five on the bench. Three head coaches and one assistant. I suggest it is time for the coaches to run the steps at the Allen. Only kidding, I don't want to be responsible.

offline 6 years, 3 months ago

This better be Selfs last year. Bring on Doc Sadler.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 6 years, 3 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Jim Jackson 6 years, 3 months ago

Guys, what about putting Anrio out there? Does anyone else think he gives us a better shot to win? I say we ease him in with repetitions and have Elijah split time with him to take the pressure off of him.

Thoughts?

offline 6 years, 3 months ago

Why are the ESPN announcers saying that KU needs to look at KU replacing Self?

Benjamin Piehler 6 years, 3 months ago

Little early in the morning to start drinking, ay?

Jack Jones 6 years, 3 months ago

No need to apologize to the "offline moron."

offline 6 years, 3 months ago

This will kill the morale of the players and it will only get worse.

RCJHGOKANSAS 6 years, 3 months ago

last year....many people thought the team wasn't good enough to compete....the team didn't believe it ....and they had great team chemistry....I remember the guys saying the liked playing together....

fast forward to this year......everyone expects the team to win the conference.....team probably believes (prior to the last two games) they are going to easily win the conference....this team probably doesn't have the best chemistry..........for whatever reason, they don't have the best chemistry....so it is probably going to be very difficult to go far this year....UNLESS...they have some pride, believe in themselves...and learn how to play together in a cohesive manner....you are what you are....and they have shown multiple times they are not good offensively.....

David Howell 6 years, 3 months ago

Really NO ONE should be overly surprised. This years team has been trending downward over the past two months.

Close wins over teams we should have blown out. Plus let's face it ..... the Big 12 is not even close to a power conference this year. If it hadn't been for McLemore's big games in December and January, we would have lost 6 to 8 games by now.

The sad thing is the Hawks trot out four seniors and a stud freshman as starters. I could see us struggling at times if we only played freshmen and sophmores.

Even if they turn it around over the next several games, I would have no confidence in this team come tournament time ! This is the earliest I can remember that I am already looking forward to next year ....... and I have tickets to the game at OK State ! The question now is do I wear orange under my KU blue or KU Blue under my Orange shirt ? Next year both of my boy's will be at OK State. For now they are steadfast KU fans through and through ......

mejayhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

And now for something completely different...?

offline 6 years, 3 months ago

Jhawkr, better wear orange as blue is out.

HawkKlaw 6 years, 3 months ago

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not counting this team out because of two losses. I'm not counting this team out because we lost at home to Okie St. Statistically, those things are bound to happen, even to a powerhouse like KU. If Elijah shores up his PG play and the rest of the team actually makes some shots, this team is as good as any in the country.

Look at the stats. Shooting 30% from the field while only hitting 14% of your 3PT shots is going to spell a loss almost every time. TCU shot better than their average last night and KU shot far worse. KU deserved to lose that game.

But no way am I counting this team out. If you think Withey, Releford, BMac, Young and Elijah are going to lay down and die because of a loss to TCU, you're sorely mistaking. Rock Chalk.

kennethst 6 years, 3 months ago

EJ sure deserves a lot of blame. But you know who else? Ben Mc. He has played very poorly lately. It's a shame. Hopefully......they will break out. I seem to recall everyone had given up on the 1988 KU team.

Sam Constance 6 years, 3 months ago

I'm sorry, but this loss--and all of the near misses over the past several weeks--is not on Coach Self.

It's so much easier and satsifying to blame a terrible, embarrassing loss like this on a single person because you get the catharsis of pointing the finger and (metaphorically) screaming "HE DID IT! IT'S HIS FAULT!!!" But the truth is that this is an execution issue. Insomuch as execution is about a coach effectively reaching his players, then it is on Coach Self, but that's wholly different than pinning the loss on him as if he could have coached this team to hit a [expletive] shot.

Only Travis knows why he looks terrified to shoot the ball.

Only Elijah can make the choice to try something other than shot after shot after shot (although if he senses something about Travis' timid play, he may be shooting because he at least has the balls to do it) to get this team's offense going.

Only Jeff can make more decisive moves in the paint or change up his habit of either shooting or passing back to the wing.

Only Naadir can decide to dribble less and pass more.

Only the players on the floor can actually make crisper, more decisive passes instead of timid, tentative passes.

Only the players on the floor can disrupt passing lanes. They had ONE FREAKING STEAL last night. That's unacceptable.

Obviously, Coach Self and staff can stress all these things, and if they weren't doing that, maybe we'd have grounds for complaint. But I can't fathom that a coach who hadn't lost back-to-back games in 264 tries suddenly forgot how to coach over the past 10 games. I will say that from an in-game adjustment standpoint, they could do more, but I also think Self recognizes that this team is a bit soft and doesn't want to coddle them along to wins because he draws up a bunch of plays. Agree or disagree, he seems content to let the players get galvanized by going through the fire, rather than by him telling them about it. I suppose we'll see if there are teams for which that just doesn't work. I hope either Self is right, or realizes that this team is different in time to do something about it. Perhaps he's saying to himself "well, I'm not going to make any major philosophical changes in coaching as long as we're still in the hunt for league titles and a high tourney seed, because I may need to cobble together some wins for these guys with playcalling in the tournament and I don't want to burn through my arsenal". Or maybe I'm being too complimentary of Self. One thing's for certain, this season has suddenly turned into one of his toughest coaching jobs since he arrived at KU.

(end part 1 of 3)

Mike Barnhart 6 years, 3 months ago

Clearly there's nothing a coach can do. He's at the mercy of his players. Following that logic, Quin Snyder could have led our 2008 team to a championship.

Sam Constance 6 years, 3 months ago

I don't think that's at all what I said. Try reading next time.

Ben Simonett 6 years, 3 months ago

had coach self recruitied more successfully in passed years the bench would be deeper and he wouldnt be relying on EJ and Tharpe at PG.

So ultimately, it is on HCBS

Sam Constance 6 years, 3 months ago

Well, I'm not suggesting Self is completely without culpability here. I mean, he is the coach of the team.

But we're breaking down a single loss. Pinning that on recruiting outcomes from 3-4 years ago is idiotic because there is no direct line from recruiting to on-court results. Yes, in a general sense, you want to get the best athletes and basketballers possible, because talent ultimately matters. But I just don't get the tendency of certain posters to nitpick isolated elements of bringing a college basketball team together.

Recruiting is only one part. It's naive to expect Kansas to recruit the same way North Carolina or Duke does, for example. I love my state as much as the next guy, but we are in an area of the country that can't shake the stigma of being "flyover" country.

Personally, I like to look at the whole painting, rather than a small square inch area of the painting. Seurat looks quite different that way.

And again, Self needs to bear some responsibility, because it's his job to get these guys to play hard and with confidence. But in terms of specific reasons we lost that game, it's because the players didn't execute for the most part. The responsibility Self bears, in my opinion, is in whatever coaching magic is required to get guys to play well, and in waiting too long/being too stubborn with in-game adjustments. But make no mistake, those two things are the connective tissue around the single-most important component to winning a game: player execution.

Sam Constance 6 years, 3 months ago

(start part 2 of 3)

What I see is a team whose chemistry is suffering. I don't know the source of it, and it's worrisome to me, given how hard it is to identify and fix a problem like that. But I will note that this is a problem I was concerned about at the beginning of the season. I said, way early on that Elijah, while I love him as a Jayhawk, does not have the "everyone hop on my shoulders while I lead this team" disposition that Tyshawn did. The things Elijah says in the media strike me as a guy who's trying hard, who wants to say and do the things a leader would say and do, but who just doesn't quite grasp it the way some of our best floor generals have. He needs to be a complimentary guard, and his position is only made worse by the fact that he is clearly being affected by his knee issues. There was one play last night where he seemed to be struggling to keep pace with the man he was guarding as he ran up the floor, and his man had the ball and was dribbling. It made my knees ache to watch Elijah run. So ultimately, you have a young man who is built to be a versatile, athletic compliment to a more "heady" team leader having to fulfill a role he isn't really built to fill, and also having his body betray him for doing the things he is built to do. He had to have NBA aspirations and I'm sure he can see that possibility slipping away--I can't imagine what that's like to deal with. So count me as one person who is more sad for Elijah than angry and wants him benched. I'd rather go down fighting with Elijah than give up on the season to develop for the "future". That is the mantra with too many teams in the KC area--screw the future, I want to watch this team fight, and I have no doubt that it will.

But I digress. Back to my main point--I said early on that Elijah was not cut from the right cloth to be a team leader and that if someone else (at the time I thought it would need to be McLemore) didn't grow into that role, we were going to struggle, especially when things got tough. Well here we are. The thing that's especially tough about it is the fact you can't, as a coach, just go to the team and try and force a change in who the team looks to for on-floor leadership. It has to happen organically, or Self and crew risk losing any sense of productivity from Elijah, as the one role that is his gets taken away. Ben needs to recognize that he needs to be that floor leader, even if Elijah is still facilitating the offense. Ben needs to be the one to put the team on his back when it gets tough, and to his credit, he seemed interested in doing that last night, but just couldn't buy a freaking bucket. Maybe this game will be the catalyst for Ben to take a more dominant role in the attitude/moxie of this team.

(end part 2 of 3)

Sam Constance 6 years, 3 months ago

(start part 3 of 3)

One other thing jumped out at me in reading this recap. The article mentioned that we were down 10-4 with six minutes and change to go in the first half, and that with four minutes to go, we were down 20-6. That had NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with our terrible offense. Allowing 10 points to TC-freaking-U in 2 minutes of play is absolute garbage. As is allowing a guard to put in a tip slam when that very same thing is one of the key reasons why you just lost at home to OSU. These are not coaching issues, unless you think a coach should be managing every, single executional aspect on the floor.

Yes, some more creative offense from Self and crew would have probably helped win us that game last night, but the REASON--as in, primary, main reason--we lost last night was because of a lack of toughness and desire. They looked disinterested. They seemed to feel sorry for themselves that shots weren't going in. They looked... broken. NOW is when Self's real coaching job begins, because he has a team that 1) is playing terribly, but also 2) has a busted psyche. It will be difficult to find a way to build up their confidence while also instilling a sense of urgency about their lackluster play.

As a realist, I don't like to get too high about our successes or too low about our failures. I think a reasonable reaction to this game is that KU still has the chance to finish the season as a good team, but for at least the time being, any notions of them being a national title contender are no longer true.

Hopefully they can band together and fix that, but I will love them all no matter what.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk. Go get 'em guys.

Mike Barnhart 6 years, 3 months ago

We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell 'em stories that don't go anywhere - like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Give me five bees for a quarter, you'd say.

Now where were we? Oh yeah: the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

ajhk 6 years, 3 months ago

HA! Awesome! I wouldn't go back and trade for a win if it means I don't get to read this!
Keep'em a come'n multiple jays hok, best post all day.

texashawk10 6 years, 3 months ago

Oh Grampa Simpson, I needed that laugh.

kennethst 6 years, 3 months ago

We are all upset because we thought they were a great team. They are not great at all. But :they are decent......and above average. That's it........a C+ team at most. They can still compete somewhat. They can not, however, win the Big 12 nor a national title. That hope is over.

The Emperor Has No Clothes.

HawkKlaw 6 years, 3 months ago

Pretty dark and scary! But completely off-base as well.

This team is still 19-3, atop the Big 12 standings, and ranked nationally in the Top 10. "C+ at most"??? Get outta here, fair weather fan.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

I don't see "fair weather"....doesn't mean that he's NOT rooting for them. Just changed his/her expectations. What? Now a person's not allowed to do that and is automatically labeled "fair weathered"?!?! That's not fair!!!!

HawkKlaw 6 years, 3 months ago

KU has been one of the best teams in the NCAA all year long. They lost two games recently and all the sudden he thinks KU can't compete for a Big 12 or national title. That's the definition of a "fair-weather fan."

kennethst 6 years, 3 months ago

PS- And remember.....this loss occured with a majority of KU fans in attendance at TCU. That's really sad. I feel badly for those KU fans that showed up there. You guys deserved a lot better. Thanks for coming and supporting them. Too bad the team didn't come also.

Yolanda Gay 6 years, 3 months ago

I love my Jayhawks - good or bad. But lately it's been really BAD.

I didn't think we'd go undefeated in the Big 12. I don't mind losing as long as we compete. Except for the Baylor game, I don't think this team has their mind in the game and are competing.

How does a team with this talent lose to a team like TCU. How does a team with this talent only score 13 points in a half.

I commend Self trying to shake up the line up by putting Ellis in the starting line up. We do need points from that position; especially those foul line jumpers to pull the defense off of Withey. But that is not where I would have made the change.

Some players aren't pulling their weight (i.e. EJ and Releford - to some extent). EJ's turnovers are SO careless. Maybe he needs to come off the bench instead of start. Releford can shoot - then shoot the ball. He does a good job on defense on the other team's best player.

What's the answer? They had a 3 hour team meeting. Apparently, that did no good. With some of the previous team, they would have already had a players only meeting. Are we missing Coach Manning teaching the big men? Is it because the practice squad is not making the starters better because they are good enough to do so?

I hope Coach Self figures it out soon.

jaybate 6 years, 3 months ago

Contemporary basketball migrates from a skill and athleticism game the first half of the season into a muscle and intimidation game the second half of the season.

We can explain why in simple, or complicated ways.

But migration happens regardless.

This KU team has abilities and schemes that did well in the skill and athleticism half of the season.

Now as the muscle and intimidation part of the season plays out, it seems not suited to this style of play.

Obviously we cannot get bigger and stronger than we are now, so we know every team with three thick bigs and a thick point guard is going to give us troubles the rest of the season, as things stand.

So: we have to develop better offensive tactics and we have to develop more defensive intimidation without the benefit of muscle to do it.

The new offensive tactics I will leave for another post.

Defensive intimidation without muscle is simple. There is only one kind of defensive intimidation without muscle; that is cheap shotting.

Coach K faced this situation a few years back. His guys weren't strong enough to match muscle for muscle. So he had his guys XTReme Cheap Shot.

It is an unethical and unpleasant way to play the game.

There is one other way to intimidate another team without muscle; that is by running them till they are exhausted. Fatigues makes cowards of us all.

But running requires XTReme Conditioning and some depth. It also means pressing more, not less.

Running also requires your bigs can outrebound your opponent on the defensive glass most of the time, so that your smalls can release for the break. KU can do both these things sometimes, but not all the time.

And Self says the bench just isn't strong enough to go to it much.

His Press Conference indicated that he thinks the only choice is to scheme to play the starters as much as humanly possible and so minimize having to go to his bench.

So: accelerating the game and tiring out the opponent seems unfeasible in his mind, unless...

Its unfeasible unless Self has been running the team ragged in practices since the break trying to build up their cardiovascular endurance, and playing subs a bit more to try to bridge them through their dead legs during this XTReme Conditioning. It doesn't seem like that's what he's been up to, but it could be. It would explain the horrible fall off in both offense and defense and the huge fall off in the amount of running and jumping going on. Dead legs. But again, I doubt it.

So if the guys are not undergoing XTReme Conditioning to try to get to where they can run exhaust teams by running, what?

That leaves more and more offensive emphasis on Ben.

And more XTReme Cheap Shotting on defense.

Oh, how I wish they would call the game according to the rules.

Jeff Kilgore 6 years, 3 months ago

JB, there are many times when I skip your posts because I do have a life outside of sports, and reading your lengthy posts (I can read 800 words a minute) would take up most of the time! But your post makes sense.

However, the physicality in bball today has cheapened the game. It's devolved and is even more pronounced at the high school level. A local hs team scored 11 points at half. Thirty-five years ago, when I played Class 1A ball here in the state, our team averaged 66 points a game and watched the final quarter taking off our socks and shoes. It's not the kids' fault. Aggression is now built in the sport. Self's teams (until today) have been capable of beating teams into submission.

Remember the knock on Roy's teams? Strength > Finesses and we saw that play out in the tourney time and time again. I love the games in which the scores are closer to 100 than 50, but it seems that that era has long passed us by, and it's sad to see.

jaybate 6 years, 3 months ago

Glad I got one that fit your window. Rock Chalk!

Ad astra per aspera.

Jeff Kilgore 6 years, 3 months ago

Rock Chalk! Ad Astra (we've had enough of the "per aspera.")

Tony Bandle 6 years, 3 months ago

OH MY GOD!!!

I just had a premonition eating my lunch. I suddenly saw this picture with overlapped faces. Aaron Miles over Elijah. Keith Langford over Kevin. Wayne Simeon over Jeff. Mike Lee over Travis. The ghosts of 2004 coming back to haunt us.

I've really got to stop eating tuna fish sandwiches!!!!!

Mike Barnhart 6 years, 3 months ago

Lost in Hawaii to Arkansas and a week later at home to Nevada.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

I thought it was lost in Hawaii to Hawaii.

Tony Bandle 6 years, 3 months ago

Hi, my name is Tom....[ten seconds]...Hi, my name is Tom.

Ron Franklin 6 years, 3 months ago

I believe the team is definitely feeling the negative energy from the fan base. Probably about time to get off our high horses and spin this into a positive. Let's change the energy here from black and blue to green.

JHAWK34TRUTH 6 years, 3 months ago

Get it together boys and ROCK CHALK!

LET'S GO!!!!

Ron Franklin 6 years, 3 months ago

Do you find it odd that we chastise the Team for feeling entitled because they think they should win because they have KANSAS on their jersey, yet Us Fans have this very same entitlement issue?

We are lucky to have what we have. We've enjoyed a very successful decade with Coach Self and his teams. We don't have a right to win just because its the greatest school and program of all time. We are used to winning, but it is not owed to us.

We shouldn't expect to win or feel entitled to win because the team we watch has KANSAS on their jersey. Just as the actual players shouldn't feel entitled because of the name on the jersey.

A lot of us here, myself included, are a very spoiled bunch.

Silentbob2 6 years, 3 months ago

Last night ws terrible. KU couldn't buy a bucket. And HCBS was out coached by HCTJ. It was so bad that at the 7 minute mark KU went hack a shaq, and the guy who is the worst on the team at freethrows makes them both. TCU's 2 best players were in. KU is way to talented to be losing games by non-factor teams. IMO, Maybe start incorporating other players like Wesley, Rio, and AWIII into the offense more at practice. EJ shouldn't have to take all the blame. EJ is a really really good player and his draft stock may be dropping but lets remember he is playing out of position. He is a catch and shoot guy. But we only lost 3 games out of many and there is still time left to be great. I'm rooting for them. P.S. Rio needs more minutes and make him one of your scoring threats. The kid gets to the basket with no problem. If KY would have converted that nice pass Rio may have stayed on the floor. Or maybe not since he's not one of HCBS favorites. Just my opinion.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

Taylor wasn't either his freshman year (even less so for a period during his Jr. year), but was by the end of his career and at other pts. in between. Anrio reminds me a lot of a little bit not as good T.Taylor.

Ron Franklin 6 years, 3 months ago

I'm laughing at myself because I just spent a ton of money about a week ago on basketball tickets. Being the cheap a$$ that I am, I wanted to pick a game to go to that would be a guaranteed 'W'.

So I picked the home game vs TCU.

Uh oh.

Sam Constance 6 years, 3 months ago

The funny thing is... that game is probably more guaranteed now than any other game left on our schedule.

Phogdoggy 6 years, 3 months ago

SurrealKU,

Come on man-----let's use some common sense. You want to get rid of a coach that has won a national championship, 8 conference titles and has gone to two Final 4's. Seriously??? Am I concerned----YES, but firing the coach is not the answer. Remember we are 19 - 3. I believe Coach Self is best when his back is agaist the wall. I hope that will be the case this time.

Rock Chalk!!!!!!!!!!!

Tony Bandle 6 years, 3 months ago

If we fired Coach, take a guess at how many schools would be scrambling to contact him. I would put the over at about 200!!!!..and that doesn't count NBA teams!!!

Let's all try to approach our team with some degree of rationality. Horrible game, yes...team funk..absolutely.....end of the world and we lose the majority of the rest of our games...c'mon!!!

Elijah went 3 for 3 at the end, we got it down to four with the ball and what other teams are going to do is now crystal clear. This team has learned the lesson that any effort less than 100%, 100% of the time will put victory at risk. Redemption is but a road victory at Oklahoma away!!

RCJHGOKU!!!

Robbk1066 6 years, 3 months ago

Its been 15 hours and I still keep asking myself "what in the Wide World of Sports" just happened. Unbelievable, pathetic, historic, how...? Self's only blame is that they do not have a quality PG. No excuse for that. none. 4 seniors, good not great but 4, Bmac, some other pieces... What happened to the team 3 weeks ago? They either show up in the next game or we might be looking forward to next year. Good recruiting class, to go with team that will be back. Hope is all you have when something like this happens. I have never seen a quality team in ANY sport fall apart like this so quickly. never. Its unexplainable.

TexasRockChalk 6 years, 3 months ago

RobbK~ You left out an additional "Wide" (cf. Blazing Saddles) :-)

ku_foaf 6 years, 3 months ago

This is worst team we have lost to since Baylor in 2000. But this team is much better than that 2000 team. Never has a KU team we know is capable of beating good teams lost to one that bad. Missouri in 97 does come to mind; we were really good, they were .500

WesternKanHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

This loss is on Bill, not our players. He destroyed our team's confidence. All he's done lately is rip our players and consistently remind them how terrible they are. This was all while we won over ten games in a row and were ranked in the top 5. I understand trying to make our team better through constructive criticism but he's publicly embarrassed some of our players.

Jayhawks1985 6 years, 3 months ago

No the worst thing would be if TCU doesn't win another game!

KULA 6 years, 3 months ago

EJ's confidence is shot and that's on Bill. Bill mismanaged EJ's whole career. Anyone remember when EJ came to KU as the #3 ranked player at his position and the "best athlete on the team"? Remember how Bill brought him along? With the "one and done" treatment--one mistake and he's done for the day. Remember EJ's one minute box scores? On a team that regularly won games by 20 pts. Remember Sherron playing 35 min/game in those 20 pt victories? Remember Sherron not being able to hit a 3 in March. Remember wondering if we had anyone on the bench who might be able to hit a three against UNI, but Bill not having confidence in him because he hadn't played him all year?

Remember the next year when Bill clipped EJ's wings and effectively ended his season after the T in the K State game for too much energy after his dunk? Energy that was sorely needed at the time. Remember how EJ had to watch from the bench while Brady regularly lit it up the rest of the season for 6 pts/game, and even less against VCU?

Flash forward to last Saturday. After their first home loss in two years, what's the first thing Bill does? Throws EJ under the bus. Is it any wonder the kid plays without confidence?

YuCoJayHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

I remember EJ absolutely taking over several games in March of last year, sparking the Jayhawks to some huge wins.....

KansasComet 6 years, 3 months ago

The reason I say enjoy the ride when we are winning is for moments just like this. A win is a win. I do not like losing. The missed shots by Kansas did not bother me one bit. What bothered me was the amount of confidence TCU played with. They had no fear, and our team is walking on egg shells, afraid to take, make, or miss shots. We looked like Frankenstein on "Dancing With The Stars" on offense. Absolutely no rhythm and no "go to guy". The only difference I see on this team lately is in confidence. We aren't stepping into our jumpshots in rhythm. We are choppy and out of sync. We are very hesitant, and the other teams' smell fear. Plain and simple. There does not appear to be a lot of chatter on the court amongst teammates. On defense, we allowed too many layups, and were often caught flat footed. The good news is that there is plenty of time for redemption. Time for the entire team to come out and play some confident, winning KU Basketball! I still believe!

Ben Simonett 6 years, 3 months ago

Its almost as if the delayed impact recruiting struggles have on a program are finally starting to manifest themselves!

I love EJ, Releford and Withey, but there is a reason these guys are seniors when the most talented players leave for the NBA as early as feasible: they're not that talented. Kevin YOung could only get mid major offers coming out of high school for the same reason.

Last years team was a fluke. its not very often a team with a walk on for a 6th man (teahan) makes it to the national championship game. Bill Self is an amazing coach and deserves all the praise for achieving what he did with the talent on last years team. But that doesnt change the fact that the talent level between these last 2 versions of jayhawks has been measurably below historical norms. These recent struggles could be forseen years ago by anyone paying attention to the recruiting trail.

On the bright side, the class coming in is loaded so the talent level should start trending in the right direction again.

JayDocMD 6 years, 3 months ago

"...but there is a reason these guys are seniors when the most talented players leave for the NBA... "

Sasha, RussRob and D-Block all think this is an excellent point...

Ben Simonett 6 years, 3 months ago

yeah, and they should be thanking Mario, B Rush, and Shady.

You know, the 3 underclassmen that are actually still in the NBA

JayDocMD 6 years, 3 months ago

Sasha, RussRob and Darnell need to thank Mario, B Rush and Shady as much as Mario, B Rush and Shady need to thank Sasha, RussRob, and D-Block.

I understand your point. We need more blue-chips recruits to be a true contender. I agree, although I would argue we're only one stud PG shy this year.

My point: it takes players like Withey, Releford and KY who are "not that talented" to complement players like B Mac, Shady and B Rush.

Sam Constance 6 years, 3 months ago

Posts like this really tick me off. I read sentences like this and have to wonder what reality you are living in:

"These recent struggles could be forseen years ago by anyone paying attention to the recruiting trail."

I'm not sure what's more ridiculous--you suggesting that you "saw this coming" because we had a couple of years where our class ranking wasn't amongst the elite in the country or the idea that having a back-to-back loss for the first time in 264 games qualifies as "recent struggles".

I just don't know how you can look at scout-ranked talent as being the issue here. Regardless of what the rankings of these guys were coming out of high school, they are still leaps and bounds better than the players at TCU, for example. If this was about a talent gap, then I don't think we'd be losing our minds over one of the most embarrassing and honestly, odd losses in modern basketball against a bad team, we'd be having consistent losses and a continuous struggle. This team has rolled some very good teams this year, and the recent struggles only started about 2 months ago.

If anything, I think a case could be made that Big 12 coaches and teams are starting to get a feel for Self's offense, which leaves the Jayhawks to win games solely on defense. That's awfully hard to do, especially when the team is playing with lackluster effort (like the last two games).

But pinning this on talent level just seems crazy. Then again, anyone who frequents these boards knows you are a regular recruiting shill. I will never understand the mentality of people who spend so much time fretting over something that ultimately is anecdotal to the things that I feel most people root for in sports--their team to win. Having opinions about the talent we are getting is one thing. Making it the kind of pet issue you have made it into reflects--to me--a confusion of priorities on your part.

Ben Simonett 6 years, 3 months ago

"recent struggles" = lack of pure PG, getting out muscled in the paint because of undersized bigs. no bench depth to go to when starters get into slumps, ETC.

obviously no one could have said "KU will lose to TCU because we didnt sign xyz recruit" but you can easily conclude that the team would have many more obstacles to over come than normal as a result of the recruiting dip.

Yesterdays game is just a symptom of the larger problem

Sam Constance 6 years, 3 months ago

EJ was recruited as the #4 POINT guard in his class and 24th overall. We may be lacking someone to fulfill that role right now, but the guy who's playing the minutes at that position was recruited to play that position. It's kind of hard to pin that specifically on recruiting failures. We also have a backup PG who was 19th at his position, but is young and still learning. And, we had to deal with losing an elite PG recruit to the NBA.

My issue is the way you act like there is a direct and controllable connection between on-court results and recruiting class rankings, when it is actually a very fluid and unpredictable thing to manage. Unless you think we should be treating recruits like just tools in a shed rather than people, and stockpiling players on the chance that one of them (like EJ) fails to reach full expectations, this kind of ebb and flow is just part of the deal.

Kenny Nall 6 years, 3 months ago

This is part and parcel of being a big collegiate basketball program. Yes, work needs to be done to get the boys out of a funk and I think we all know Self is more than capable of doing that.

Jeff Kilgore 6 years, 3 months ago

There are those that are very demoralized and bewildered by what they saw last night. I'm not. KU, despite having a really forgettable game, lost one game. It's two in a row for those who can remember when such a thing was possible.

From Self, to the players, to the fans, this loss to me is long overdue. I am a KU fan as much as anybody on this board, but losing happens, and since we are not very well acquainted with it, we don't understand it.

Therefore, we look for reasons: they're pressing, Self is too hard on the players, Self isn't hard enough on the players, our players aren't good enough (ask the Buckeyes), we're lacking X, Y, and Z. No to all of these.

The ball just hasn't been going down for us, and when it does, watch what happens. Losing a few more and knocking us down a bit in the March Madness seedings might be the trick that gets these kids rejuvenated. Every coach and player lives and breathes basketball, and these losses are tough for them to take. But better days are ahead.

We're 19-3.

IkePikeHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

During the 1st half, I recall our guys awaiting a free throw, and drops of sweat were pouring off their faces. Maybe, this is normal and I've just been oblivious to it in the past?

Kye Clark 6 years, 3 months ago

Please stop trying to justify this as "just one loss" or throwing out our record, or the record of teams from seasons' past. Because you know what? When we were playing horribly and skating by all January and some of the astute posters were leery of the direction the team was heading, you all were shouting us down then by saying "we've lost one game and are #2 (or whatever we were at the time) in the country!" How long can you keep burying your head in the sand and pretending that there aren't major issues with this team?

Is the team horrible? No. Is it broken beyond repair? No. Look, this morning the sun came up and I dressed my son in his Jayhawk hoodie before sending him off to start his day. I took the lumps at work, and was still thankful I was a Jayhawk fan and those poking fun at me weren't.

I still think we should win the Big 12, but some things need to be remedied:

1) - Releford. His passiveness on offense is inexcusable. Myself & others have been critical of this long before the losses started piling up. It's not new. It's his M.O. The Houdini act he pulls is the biggest problem with this team. Young isn't a scorer. Withey is not a natural scorer. EJ is struggling mightily. So where's the offense going to come from? BMac isn't going to have too many games like last night, but at least he was trying! Travis would get the ball on the perimeter and wouldn't even look towards the hoop. He couldn't get the ball out of his hands fast enough. After the OSU loss Jaybate suggested (perhaps jokingly, but probably with at least a dash of truth to it) that Self should tell the rest of the team to clear out for EJ and let him get 6 baskets. No one takes a shot until EJ gets us 6 baskets. Well, in all seriousness maybe that should be the case for Travis. He has to get more aggressive on the offensive end. If that had happened, at least one of these losses could have been avoided, and my guess is both of them. Might have still had to win ugly, but getting him on track is the biggest step this team needs to take to get their swagger back. If he's going to continue to be this much of a non-factor then Self is better off starting and playing AW3. A couple of weeks ago, I would say that is unthinkable because of the net gain Travis provides with his stellar defense and usually solid fundamentals. However, he’s been getting beat a lot on the defensive end lately too. And last night he was the one who failed to box out and allowed TCU that monstrous tip dunk that re-energized them.

Kye Clark 6 years, 3 months ago

2) - EJ. Let's get this out of the way - EJ is in all likelihood not going to regain the form we saw during the last 9 games of last season. And as someone pointed out after the OSU game, that 9 game sample is the biggest reason we had any evidence to have our hopes so high for him. However, he is a better player than this. He is capable of being a good PG for this team. The problem is between his ears, and it's on Self to snap him out of it. I think when he's right he's the better option at the point, but until he's right Bill should be seriously cutting into his minutes and replacing him with Tharpe. Now that might seem counter-intuitive, that it will destroy his confidence and he'll never get it back, but it has to be done for two reasons. First, the constant poor performances aren't helping his confidence either, so maybe he needs to be unburdened as the leader of this team. If he isn't carrying that weight maybe he can relax and just play. The second reason is that with him burdening himself as the leader of this team, the crisis of confidence going on with him is spreading to the rest of the players. It’s like a cancer at this point. Instead of coming out ticked off and ready to lay a beat-down on TCU, they came out and got punked, and just took it.

3) - System. I believe in Self's system, but he doesn't have the pieces that fit that system perfectly this year. He has to adapt. You can't run a high-low offense with no post-scoring threat. Credit to Jeff, he's come a long way, but he is not suited for us to run offense through. Perry was our best hope for developing a true post scoring threat, but that doesn’t appear likely to happen soon. So in the absence of a running the offense as Self has traditionally ran it, what do we do? I don’t know honestly, but as sacrilege as this may seem…look at K-State. Borrow some of that motion offense, because really their personnel is not that different than ours right now. They have one bona fide scorer – McGruder. We have one bona fide scorer – BMac. Nearly everything else has to come from the system, so maybe it’s time to change it up. Probably won’t happen, but I’d like to see us at least adding some new wrinkles into the offense. Right now I have no idea what we’re running, other than the weave.

Cindy Heidorn 6 years, 3 months ago

I would bet my retirement (after a 30+ healthcare career) that TR was ill last night...very likely the flu...next time when a poster is "sicker than a dog", go down to your local YMCA, play 36 minutes, and tell us how that worked out for you.

Kye Clark 6 years, 3 months ago

4) - Self’s game management. It’s not all on the players. A lot of it is. Self isn’t out there shooting these woeful percentages. A lot of it is as simple as making open looks. We make open looks, we’re having different discussions. However, he has to shoulder a lot of the blame as well. Watching the game last night, some of the stuff he was doing was a joke. As HEM has pointed out, putting AW3 in the game cold (again) with a minute left. Does he know he’s eligible to play the whole game, not just that desperation last minute of play? I was actually a fan of what he was doing with pulling the starters (as Roy used to do), but you have to leave them out there for more than a minute of play. Players were in and out too quickly. Let Rio get into a flow. Traylor scored our first points and then disappeared. Perry starts both halves but didn’t see the court after subbing out both times. What was he doing (or not doing) that was so much worse than the rest of the team? And just circling back - more AW3 please.

5) - Tharpe. This could be as simple as reeling him in. He is still young, but he got a little confidence and it worked against him last night. He got us back in the game, then took us right back out. And while he does some things well, I still don’t see him as the answer at PG. Long-term I have a hard time envisioning him as our starter the next two years. Short-term, he might be the answer for cutting EJ’s minutes, but that can’t be the case come March. I still think it was a mistake to not be developing Adams, but Self was probably more comfortable with Tharpe’s knowledge of the system so Adams had to take a back seat.

Anyway, I think if KU can just start fixing a handful of things the confidence, swagger, & toughness will come back. And really, that is what made this team so good. We’re not blowing anyone away from a pure talent standpoint. But we have the best coach in the country (yes, I still believe that), and when things are right those intangibles are what carry this team to victories over the likes of Ohio State. I can’t wait to see how they come out Saturday. Rock Chalk!

kennethst 6 years, 3 months ago

First.....the powers that be took the Royals from me. Then.......they took the Chiefs. Now.......looks like my Jayhawks are becoming just another team.(at best). They are taking it all..........all gone.

Vic Janeway 6 years, 3 months ago

Confidence....HCBS needs to get it back, thats his freakin job!

kennethst 6 years, 3 months ago

Well.....true enough. But it looks like calling them babies and challenging their manhood didn't help them last night. Sometimes.....screaming at your players is not the right approach. But Self seems to think that is the only way. well.....I wont question him much.......he is a great coach. But maybe it's time he did something else.

theend 6 years, 3 months ago

I'm watching Indiana on the road at Illinois......no problem for them. They are doing fine. Unlike KU......they know how to win against a lesser opponent. From watching this game......the difference between a team like Indiana and KU is massive. Indiana has so much more talent and skill.....and more importantly......chemistry.

theend 6 years, 3 months ago

Plus.....look at the game now!!!! Illinois won!!!!!!!

theend 6 years, 3 months ago

EJ has been getting a lot of anger......and he certainly deserves his share. But 2nd on my list would be Ben Mc. He has been a big disappointment lately. He was great up until about 2-3 weeks ago......but some terrible games since.....some awful turnovers.....missed shots.....even airballs. He would do well to stay at KU.

As for AW3 and Perry Ellis? Umm......no comment. No point in wasting the electricity.

Cindy Heidorn 6 years, 3 months ago

...and blew an 11 point lead down the stretch and whiffed on an in-bound play that cost Indiana the game...and the beat goes on...and so too will KU. Go Hawks!

David Howell 6 years, 3 months ago

You can preach chemistry and confidence, etc. What is comes down to is how much skill you have and the energy you bring to the court.

Look at our starting five. Only McLemore is a true gifted scorer. Seriously Withey, EJ, Releford and especially Young. No one is awfully concerned when they shoot. They are expecting a rebound chance. What those four have to bring is effort, energy, and capitalizing on 2nd chances. At best the Hawks are a below average rebounding team. Watch on long shots, they stand under the rim. No one is putting a body on anyone or blocking out.

The OSU loss I can accept. However, TCU exposed how badly the Hawks have been playing lately. Now NO ONE is scared of the Jayhawks. Sure, most teams bring their 'A' game against KU, but now teams have the confidence to beat KU. Do not look for them to feel pity for the Jayhawks (winners of 8 consecutive Big 12 Championships) !

kennethst 6 years, 3 months ago

Still cant believe KU only had 2 points for about 15 minues. How is that even possible.....against TCU????? That actually takes work to be that bad. That's like a score from 1901. Kansas ......#5 seed?.......1st round loss?

jeffmaher 6 years, 3 months ago

I rarely post but I need to tonight. It has been 24 hours now and I think I felt much the same way many of you felt watching last night. Embarassed, depressed, basically confused at our ineptness. Having slept on it and thinking about it for a little while today I have the following thoughts...it has been weeks now since we have played good solid basketball, but I remain optimistic. The reasons I remain optimistic is because while our offense continues to struggle our defense is still top rate. It will allow us to stay with ANY team in the country. Watching a fifth straight week where a number one has gone down (Indiana tonight to unranked Illinois) it has become abundantly clear that anyone with a 6 seed or higher can get hot and win this year in March. We will definitely be one of those teams. Our weak guard play IMHO is temporary. I think HCBS and the guards will get it figured out. There is plenty of time and I am not in a panic. Trust the team, the coaches the process. At the very least I think these "teaching" moments for guys like Tharpe, Ellis, and the rest of our team will pay off come March. Mistakes that they are making now will be corrected and valuable lessons learned. Character is created in times of distress not times of success. It is what you do and how you respond when you get knocked down that determine your success in life not how you act after sqeaking out wins vs. lesser teams. The next few weeks will be critical in determining the desire of this team and this coaching staff to right the ship. I for one am completely confident in the team, staff and fans. Let's stay supportive as a group and encourage this team to reach the highs we know they can. RCJHGKU 4ever. Peace.

DanR 6 years, 3 months ago

Agree with most everything you said. Defense will still win most of the games we'll play in the B12 and into the tourney... as long as guys heat up at least a little bit on offense. We need at least 65 points--please!

JayHok 6 years, 3 months ago

Three of our starters have the flu. Hard to believe the entire team doesn't. Get well soon Hawks.

theend 6 years, 3 months ago

Really? That would explain a lot. If they had the flu yesterday I would owe them a huge apology. Almost impossible to play with the flu.

Cody Riedy 6 years, 3 months ago

That would explain a lot, but where is this information coming from? Is there a reason Self wouldn't acknowledge that players are sick?

Cody Riedy 6 years, 3 months ago

A lot of people are anxious to see more of the freshman. Self has seen them everyday in practice for months now; if they were showing something that made him think they were ready, he'd play them. Some of them might look good in spots if they were thrown into the game more, but I imagine over the long haul of a whole game or two, the flaws Self sees in practice would become evident. Maybe some of them might be gamers who rise to the occasion of real game competition, but I can understand a coach not wanting to throw in a guy hoping that he's going to suddenly do something in a real game, he doesn't do in practice. Ultimately, it's way too early to act like a last place baseball team at the all-star break and just get rid of our starters and go to the bench to start getting practice and evaluating. No one has been playing that well, so as a coach, I imagine the thinking is that if anybody is going to breakthrough its going to be a veteran whose shown already that they can play - so you have to ride out this year with your upperclassman.

Brad Boline 6 years, 3 months ago

To me Self has to put Naadir in the starting line up to send a message to EJ. Perry or Traylor in for KY, because teams are not guarding him, and sticking double teams on Withey. It seems teams are daring KY to shot, and I do not blame them, we have too have another post threat for Self's high low to work. I think EJ will be fine, but for now coming off the bench might relieve some pressure on him. I

theend 6 years, 3 months ago

I agree some......but not on Perry Ellis. He's not ready. He will be good soon.....but not yet. At least EJ had a nice minute or so there at the end....scored 8 points. Maybe that will give him a bit of a lift.

Cody Riedy 6 years, 3 months ago

I'm not sure what message needs to be sent. I don't get the impression that EJ's problems are from a lack of desire. If these guys aren't focused and motivated now, than there are serious serious locker room problems that are new. But I've seen no sign of players not responding to Self and these seniors have never shown anything in the past but dedication. So, in short, I don't think this is a problem of guys not getting the "message."

theend 6 years, 3 months ago

Could just be a rut........we all get in them at some point. But I agree......they all show desire and effort. That's not the problem at all.

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