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Friday, January 20, 2012

Altered anthem bothers Bill Self

‘Home of Chiefs’ chant not ‘honoring your country’

Many fans turned out to watch Kansas women's game against Kansas State on Saturday, Jan. 7, 2012 at Allen Fieldhouse. The Jayhawks fell to the Wildcats, 63-57.

Many fans turned out to watch Kansas women's game against Kansas State on Saturday, Jan. 7, 2012 at Allen Fieldhouse. The Jayhawks fell to the Wildcats, 63-57.

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For some inexplicable reason, the words “Home of the Chiefs” instead of “Home of the Brave” emanate from Kansas University’s student section at the conclusion of the “Star-Spangled Banner” before KU basketball games in Allen Fieldhouse.

Ninth-year KU coach Bill Self hopes that peculiar rendition of the national anthem will end as soon as the next home game — Monday versus Texas A&M.;

“I kept asking my wife, ‘What are they saying?’’’ said Self, informed by wife, Cindy, that some of the students mimic fans at Arrowhead Stadium — the true Home of the Chiefs — while singing the anthem.

“I said, ‘I didn’t know they were saying that. I couldn’t tell.’ I don’t think that’s good. I don’t think it’s anything we should be proud about as students to carry that on, because I don’t see the place for it when you are honoring your country,” Self added.

Nobody knows exactly when it started, but some of the KU students in the end zones have been chanting “Home of the Chiefs” several seasons now. Some of them perform the “tomahawk chop” when singing those words.

Of course, many students do not take part in the altering of the song.

“That’s one tradition that in my opinion certainly we could do without,” Self said. “I think it’d be more respectful toward the anthem and what that stands for to go ahead and use the actual words to it than putting in their own. I think they should stick to Francis Scott Key’s words. I think that would be more appropriate.”

Anniversary coming: KU’s game against Texas on Saturday (3 p.m., Erwin Center, Austin, Texas) will be played on the one-year anniversary of the death of Thomas Robinson’s mother, Lisa.

“This weekend I’m sure will be emotional for him,” Self said. “You look at the similarities — one-year anniversary, playing Texas, there’s a lot of things.”

The Jayhawks learned of Lisa’s death in the late-evening hours last Jan. 21, the night before KU’s 74-63 loss to the Longhorns — a loss that snapped KU’s school-record 69-game homecourt win streak. The players and several of the players’ mothers consoled Robinson all night/morning long up until game time.

Robinson won’t be asked to re-live the memories publicly this week.

“You guys (media) aren’t going to talk to him between now and then (Saturday). I don’t think that’s fair to him to have to go through that,” Self said. “I am so amazed at how well he’s done. He has a lot of support around him. He’d probably be the first to say that. Still, he’s playing with a smile on his face. He seems like a happy kid, but he’s carrying a much bigger burden than anybody else is carrying at his age for the most part.”

KU’s entire team attended Lisa’s funeral service on Jan. 27, 2011, in Washington, D.C.

“I was so proud of our administration (and) the NCAA for allowing us to do some things. She may have not had a funeral (had KU not been able to pay). Things you take for granted, buying a casket, things like that,” Self said.

“That was a prime example of a group of guys actually becoming a family. It was cool to watch. I think it’s hard to become a family unless you go through a crisis-type situation. That was a crisis-type situation. To see how everybody responded to that ... at the same time, nobody felt sorry for anybody. They wanted to be coached.

“I asked them (players) ... ‘Do you want to talk about anything other than Thomas’ situation and how we all feel about it, because we can do that or do we want to talk about that and (also) try to get better?’ They said, ‘Coach, we’ve got to do both. The world doesn’t stop. You have to keep moving.’

“I think they handled that extremely well. That’s a tribute to our players and our fans. They made Thomas feel like he had family here. I don’t think there’s many places in America ... they would try, but I’m not sure many actually could get it done like KU people did.”

Self has said one of the reasons Robinson is doing so well is that his sister, Jayla, is thriving in Washington, D.C. She lives with her father, James Paris.

KU senior Tyshawn Taylor said he’s seen no change in Robinson with the anniversary approaching.

“He’s a soldier. He’s handled it well and I think will continue to hold up,” Taylor said. “He handled it better than a lot of people I know, definitely better than I would.

“We are there for him,” Taylor added. “If he does break down, we will be there. He hasn’t mentioned it. He hasn’t seemed any different. We’re fine.”

Root canal: Self apologized for slurring his words a bit at his weekly news conference. He had a root canal Thursday morning right before his media session.

Tough place to play: Louisville coach Rick Pitino says Allen Fieldhouse is the most “overpowering” arena in the country.

“Now, I have not taken a team to Duke. There really is not any place I’ve entered where it’s, ‘God, that’s just incredible, what an advantage that is,’’’ Pitino said in an article Thursday on Zagsblog.com. “I don’t think the Joyce is any more difficult than any other place, to be honest with you,” Pitino added, asked about Notre Dame’s Joyce Center. “The only place I’ve found (is Allen) and that could’ve been I was playing with four walk-ons and lost by 50 points, so maybe that was the reason I felt that way.”

KU pounded Pitino’s Kentucky Wildcats, 150-95, on Dec. 9, 1989, in Allen.

Comments

bocktar 8 years, 2 months ago

Thank you for taking issue with the anthem issue, coach! Yelling "Chiefs" does demonstrate a lack of respect. Hopefully they'll listen to you and finally end it.

If it and the "whoo" can go away for good on the same day, all the better!

Ben Kliewer 8 years, 2 months ago

You're absolutely right. Plus, it doesn't even make sense. Lawrence is not the home of the Chiefs...it's the home of the Jayhawks. Jayhawks are respectful creatures that don't tag trashy lines onto the end of national anthems...

sevenyearhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

It's absolutely ridiculous to hear this in Arrowhead, let alone outside of it ... strangest venue I ever heard "Home of the Chiefs"?

Shawnee Mission Theater in the Park - a freaking ARTS event!!!

Here's the deal, Chiefs fans ... you CAN start altering this chant, at Arrowhead when and ONLY your team wins another playoff game.

mmK?, bye.

ClydeTurnbuckle 8 years, 2 months ago

Actually, it makes perfect sense to say that America is the "home of the Chiefs".

bad_dog 8 years, 2 months ago

It makes perfect sense to say it, just not to use the phrase to supplant the words of the national anthem.

jayhawks8519 8 years, 2 months ago

A bunch of students at KU come from Johnson County in Kansas. They all grew up going to Chiefs games.... that's how it makes sense to them. That being said, the student section is composed of the underbelly of the student body.

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

+1 Agree with HCBS. Ban the change of wording to "Chiefs".

And I'm a traditionalist at heart. The "Rock Chalk Jayhawk KU", chant is simple, direct and says it all. So, ban the ridiculous "Wooo", which comes off like elementary school kids attempting to scare their fellow first graders on Halloween night. You're in college now (most of you), so time to grow up and acknowledge our KU traditions.

Keith Conklin 8 years, 2 months ago

Explain to me how you could Ban any of these things???

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

You're right. By virtue of the freedom of speech in America, you can't "ban" anyone from saying what they like. And I agree with that right.

Instead, I should have said, "Please acquiesce to Coach Self's request and cease changing the words to our National Anthem.

And as I mentioned above, I'm a traditionalist at heart. Adding "Wooo" to the KU chant, IMHO, implies something childish, and adds nothing positive to it. Instead, it detracts from a simple and effective chant.

Keith Conklin 8 years, 2 months ago

Im not fimiliar with the Wooo to the KU chant. Havent been to game this season and dont recall it from last years games

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I've not attended a game in AFH since 1975, the year I moved to Hawaii. However, I've watched and recorded KU's televised BB games for many years. I can't recall when I first starting hearing it, but the "Wooo" is impossible to miss. I'm surprised you haven't heard it since it occurs each time as the crowd chants the "Rock Chalk" chant.

Keith Conklin 8 years, 2 months ago

Yeah I remember know I guess I thought they always did that and before last year I had been to a game at AFH for years. But I ended up going to six games last year and was reminded why AFH is such a Epic place. I've always been a KU fan since I can remember but Im the ugly duckling in my fam(as the rest of the fam are purple furry kittens fans and didnt really get to go to many games when I was a kid. So I dont know some of KUs older traditions at AFH.

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

My family was split 2 and 2. One sister to K State, the other to KU. My mom was a die hard K State fanatic. Luckily, it didn't cause any family rifts. I'll root for K State, but only if it helps the conference, and never against KU.

Jeffery Barrett 8 years, 2 months ago

Pretty much the same for me. One of my brothers and his family bleed purple. My nephew just graduated from there. Luckily I was out of state and could not attend the graduation-so I sent my wife! Shes somewhat a KSU fan though.

Jeffery Barrett 8 years, 2 months ago

Pretty much the same for me. One of my brothers and his family bleed purple. My nephew just graduated from there. Luckily I was out of state and could not attend the graduation-so I sent my wife! Shes somewhat a KSU fan though.

Matt Kenton 8 years, 2 months ago

Is the Woo right after U? I think it used to be dead quiet, so students would randomly yell. But it is different if everyone does it in unison. Makes it a little less haunting and eerie.

Kyle Rohde 8 years, 2 months ago

I never realized the Woo wasn't supposed to be part of it - I was a student from '01-'05 and we always did it. When it's been around for at least 11 years now, tough to get rid of, sadly.

gchawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I think "Woo" simply emphasizes enthusiasm for KU, I have no problem with it.

MorganR 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree with Coach Self and commenters that support civility in all of the chants. If people know that many are offended by "home of the Chiefs," or specific chants (such as "over-rated"), this should be sufficient justification for elimination of those practices.

I understand other schools may have offensive chants and practices but I would like to think KU fans are the elite. It is gratifying to hear sports announcers talk about the atmosphere in Allen Field House and extol the knowledge of KU fans. This tradition of class has been earned over generations and but it can, all too easily, be erased by the actions of a few.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

KU has a fine and proud tradition of taunting. See "Who Shot SS?" signs, students wearing T-shirts with tiremarks calling themselves the 'Billy Tubbs Running Club' and doing the RCJH in someone else's gym. And I don't have a problem with any of it. In someways society is more uptight than it used to be, and is the worse for it.

Dan Harris 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree ox...- while I think the yelling home of the chiefs is disrepectful to our national anthem ,the rest of what the kids yell is just kids being kids. Let them have fun and lets stop being(or trying to be) so damn politically correct all the time!

Lost_in_the_Phog 8 years, 2 months ago

If our main goal was to not , God forbid, offend anyone, then there would be no more chanting: "airball", "you let the whole team down", yelling as the other team shoots free throws, "booing" as the other team enters the gym, holding up papers as they are announced, rudely disrupting the other team's huddle with the loud pump-up video, etc. I completely understand the ridding of the "home of the chiefs" chant, because it is disrespectful to our country. But come on, offending the other team by yelling "over-rated"? I dont think we need to worry about offending the other team. Thats what gives AFH the intimidation factor, as well as a key contributor to making it the hardest place to play as an opponent in the country!

ColoKU 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't think "over-rated" offends the other team, quite the contrary. I've always felt it offends your own team. By chanting that they are over rated you're saying that it's not just because you're better.

I cringed when they started chanting "over-rated" against Baylor. Not cause I cared if it hurt Baylor's feelings, but because I think they were rated just right.....and we're BETTER!

Things you should never hear/see in the Fieldhouse: -rushing the court - expect to win -home of the chiefs - respect the anthem -over-rated - cause we're always better -profanity - cause we're smarted then that

lincase 8 years, 2 months ago

Absolutely! The Rock Chalk chant is supposed to sound vaguely eerie, in my opinion--as if it is part of the Phog. I would be happy to see the end of both of these things.

yates33333 8 years, 2 months ago

That +1 has nothing to do with lincase's comment. I love hearing Rock Chalk done slowly at the end of the game. It means we've won again!!! Screw the Chiefs. I am a Bears fan anyway.

Phoghorn 8 years, 2 months ago

Yes, absolutely agree with Coach Self. I made some tongue-in-cheek posts later in this thread, but in all seriousness, yelling "chiefs" is very disrespectful to both the miliatary and to the KU tradtions. Good job, Coach! You make me proud to have you leading our team! (not that I expect Coach Self to be reading this thread...)

Alex Berger 8 years, 2 months ago

Completely agree! Don't change the national anthem and get rid of the "whoo" in the rock chalk chant. There is something special about doing the same thing for decades (not to mention centuries).

WilburNether 8 years, 2 months ago

More immature, stupid nonsense from some idiots in the student section. The jerks who do this need to grow up.

Matt Bowers 8 years, 2 months ago

Need a link for tomorrows game, they are showing the uconn game here and it isn't on cbssports.com either. Thanks.

Rock Chalk

dylans 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree, do not alter the words to the national anthem. That being said why in the world is the national anthem sang at sporting events outside of international competition? I do not feel particularly patriotic at sporting events. Reserve the NA for the 4th and other patriotic events. Does anyone else think that the national anthem is boring and dated also? I have never heard anything like it on the radio, tv, or even walking down the street. There has got to be a better way to honor our country and troops.

Michael Pannacciulli 8 years, 2 months ago

They probably think that's how the song was written...makes me want to puke just thinking about it

Kaplow 8 years, 2 months ago

couldnt agree more. thank you HCBS! its beyond rediculous that people yell " home of the chiefs" in the home of the jayhawks. im a chiefs season ticket holder and the change doesnt bother me at arrowhead but it has no place in allen field house and has been annoying me every time i hear it.

jcw3691 8 years, 2 months ago

If you're a Chiefs fan, you're honoring your country. Go Chiefs. Go KU. Go America.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

Honoring the country by altering the words of its anthem to reflect the NFL team you support? Really? Do you really want to stick with that story. That is BS and you know it. Sing the original words or don't sing at all.

Scatterhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree with the second one. Don't sing it at all. Terrible, dreadful song.

bradh 8 years, 2 months ago

I would say you are disrespecting "the brave" by changing the words. Why anyone would disrespect the military who are bleeding and dying for our right to say what we choose, amongst other things, is beyond me, but it is your right.

Jeffery Barrett 8 years, 2 months ago

Absolutely 100% agree!!! Best argument yet!

Sam Brockert 8 years, 2 months ago

While I agree with not changing the words, I even think the chiefs fans could stop doing that stupid crap, the word brave is not exclusively owned by the military. There are plenty of brave people in this country that do not wear a military uniform.

bradh 8 years, 2 months ago

Absolutely true. However, this song was written about the flag still flying at Fort McHenry. The Brave that Francis Scot Key is mostly writing about are the military at Fort McHenry who kept the flag flying through 25 hours of bombardment which Key had just witnessed.

HawkTronic 8 years, 2 months ago

We are not the "land of the free" because of the chiefs. I really hope you are being sarcastic and not posting in seriousness (from some public library in Raytown).

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

First, the National Anthem is time to honor America. Second, it's at AFH, not Arrowhead so it makes no sense. Third, the Chiefs are losers. No Superbowls in 41 years, give me a break. But, the Hunt family doesn't care so long as the stadium keeps getting filled.

sevenyearhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Forget the Super Bowl, no playoff wins since 1993!

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Air Force and Colorado State would both be worthy of a KU home and home schedule. Would also give KU some exposure to possible Colorado based recruits.

Hang in there, chamberlain. Living in Hawaii, I can relate to some of the frustrations you're going through. We only get the Jayhawks (in person) once every four or five years.

Since Colorado used to force multi-ticket buys for the KU games, I imagine the Coors arena will experience a few more empty seats from now on.

As for "seppuku", please don't go to that extreme. Leave suicide to those fans whose schools jumped ship and left for other conferences. Especially those sporting "antlers".

Keith Conklin 8 years, 2 months ago

Did you get to go any of those games while they were there in Nov? I love that there are so many KU fan across the Nation and that we travel anywhere they go. Its awesome! No other school/team compares to it. ROCK CHALK!!

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Unfortunately, I couldn't make it this year. I live on Oahu and the Maui Tournament's games are always over on Maui. I have attended in the past. Most memorable was when Miles got cramps driving the lane at the end of their first game, which put KU in the loser's bracket. I believe Duke won it that year as well.

Also, the year that Lafrenze (sp) broke a finger during practice and couldn't play against the Univ. of Hawaii here on Oahu (Not a Maui Tournament game). If I remember correctly, that was the year we lost like two games: to UH, and to Arizona in the sweet sixteen.Very disappointing year because of those two loses.

Keith Conklin 8 years, 2 months ago

I remember that too. Are you at least able to watch all the games or at least most of em on tv via ESPN homecourt, or something similar?

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I watch and record every game, if it's televised. Or in case of a conflict, I'll watch the recording when I can. Works out to 18 of the 31 regular season games this year. Had some luck with the internet on occasion last year. I get upset when CBS cuts away if a team (usually KU) gets about 15 to 20 points up. Or, KU loses out because of a regional game conflict, which has been less-so now that Fox handles many of the West coast games.

Never have subscribed to Homecourt. It only has a couple that aren't already on non-pay channels.

actorman 8 years, 2 months ago

I remember that Hawaii loss, Aloha, but it wasn't the same year as the loss to Arizona in the Sweet 16. In '96-'97, the year of the Arizona loss, the only other loss was to Misuse in double-overtime, which ended KU's 22-0 start.

middleoftheroader 8 years, 2 months ago

Dude, kicking a dog...not cool. You wanna kick someone? you're in CO, find where BB lives and...

Bill Pitcher 8 years, 2 months ago

Boulder, no, Ft. Collins or Colorado Springs, si.

CU left the Big 12. When you go, you're gone. Besides, I can only imagine what they do to the national anthem in Boulder.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

I was at 8 of the last 10 KU vs CU games in Boulder over the last 10 years and no one modified the lyrics. Close to half of the crowd were KU fans but the comment still stands.

Brak 8 years, 2 months ago

Too funny, thanks for the laugh man. Well now that you've pretty much burned all your bridges in Colorado I say its time to move back to Kansas and get you some season tickets.

Scott Smetana 8 years, 2 months ago

Us Jayhawks in Colorado Springs are also in withdrawal from Boulder. I'm sure many restaurants and bars in Boulder are feeling the same.

EverRisingHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Chamberlain - You made me poop my swivel chair, evoking such poignant and depraved imagery. We discover our true crimson and blue colors in the depths of our bleakest moments. The crimson is always darkest before the dawn. Stay strong.

kureader 8 years, 2 months ago

Funny post Chamberlain. And, I don't blame you. We have so many alums and supporters in the Colorado area, it's a shame this game can't continue. I enjoyed watching our crowd in Boulder. We practically outnumbered the Colorado fans. RockChalk.

wfzman 8 years, 2 months ago

Sorry about your withdrawals, but KU should not play Colorado, Nebraska or Missouri on their home courts or outside of tournament play. Now if any of those three want to come to Allen, that would be different. There is no way that any Big 12 school should do anything that benefits the deserters in any way. They made their beds with their new playmates and they can sleep in them.

jayhawktownie 8 years, 2 months ago

Gary, you're a smart guy. This isn't that hard to figure out. A huge portion (majority?) of KU students grow up in the KC metro area. In the KC metro area, the Chiefs are the #1 sporting attraction. If you go to a game at Arrowhead, the yelling of "Chiefs" at the end of the anthem is a really cool/exciting moment. It is not surprising/shocking/inexplicable (your word) at all to see it stick with fans and bleed into other venues. Plus, they are 18, they think they are being clever. Get over it. Every time one of the LJ World writers whines about this or inappropriate chants at football games they just come across as out of touch and curmudgeony. Please write/tweet about something more interesting.

Keith Conklin 8 years, 2 months ago

Exactly what I was thinking. I respect what coach Self is trying to say but he isnt from around here and doesnt understand what its all about. Ive never heard that at the end of the anthem and thought to myself that was disrespectful. What's more American than football?

MinnesotaJay 8 years, 2 months ago

I hear you, but disagree. You can honor or cheer for the Chiefs any old time. You can do it before the national anthem. You can do it after the national anthem. You can do it at times which are completely unrelated to the national anthem. Just don't do it DURING the singing of the national anthem. If nothing else, realize that other people think this is a meaningful 'ceremony' in and of itself.

You wouldn't yell 'How Great the Chiefs Art' at a solemn moment in a respectful burial ceremony either. There are appropriate times to root for the Chiefs, and during the singing of the national anthem isn't one of them.

Just because it's gone on for awhile doesn't make it a tradition deserving of appreciation any more than a cancerous growth which has been permitted to go on too long deserves to remain in place.

Keith Conklin 8 years, 2 months ago

I fully understand when it is appropriate to root for any team and you are taking this way to far. Really man come on! I dont go around messing words by putting "Chiefs" in place of whatever it maybe. I may like the Chiefs but Im not a big fan. The Hawks are all I really care about when comes to Sports. What would you say if the Chiefs were called the Braves instead???

MinnesotaJay 8 years, 2 months ago

"I fully understand when it is appropriate to root for any team..."

Apparently not. At least, Coach Self and I don't think so.

"What would you say if the Chiefs were called the Braves instead???"

The same thing I'm saying now, substituting 'Braves' for 'Chiefs.'

The Braves??? WTF??? You weren't actually trying to make a point, were you?

actorman 8 years, 2 months ago

Given the fact that the national anthem is being done before every single sporting event, it's hard to take it that seriously as being a solemn occasion to honor the country. I'm more bothered by the fact that we shouldn't be yelling for the Chiefs when it's a KU game and we're supposed to be celebrating with KU traditions.

I'm also much more bothered by the football chant that goes up every time KU kicks off, when the students yell "Rip his f***ing head off!" I think that makes KU fans look classless.

dylans 8 years, 2 months ago

That reminds me of the first time I heard the national anthem altered at a game in Atlanta, the home of the Braves. This was a smaller change, but no different. So KU students aren't the only ones desecrating the national anthem.

jhox 8 years, 2 months ago

I prefer home of the brave, but if it has to be altered at the end, I always wondered why in Allen the kids didn't use the term 'hawks, or even Jayhawks.

Jeffery Barrett 8 years, 2 months ago

Totally disagree, 816 and townie. Lawrence is not KC. It seems most everyone else disagrees with both of you, too.

BleedCnB 8 years, 2 months ago

Doesn't matter, Allen Fieldhouse is not the home of the pathetic chiefs. You chiefs fans are the laughing stock of the NFL with your disrespect of the national anthem, and your disrespect of this nations military who have have fought and died for this country. Don't believe me go as ask fans of other teams.

There is no place for it at arrowhead stadium, and most definitely not appropriate and any of KU's games.

jayhawktownie 8 years, 2 months ago

I'll leave most of your brilliantly crafted argument alone as it's unrelated to my point that this is in no way "inexplicable". It is very easily explained.

Keith Conklin 8 years, 2 months ago

Never knew this was an issue till today or that We so called chiefs fans were the laughing stock of the NFL for that reason. I've heard this my entire life and now it some big deal really we have more important issues at hand than this It also has never crossed my mind that I am or that anyone at Arrowhead or Allen Fieldhouse is or was disrespecting the Nation or our Military?? So sorry to hurt your feelings.

actorman 8 years, 2 months ago

That's one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen on this site.

You act like Chiefs fans are the only ones who alter the anthem in any way. There are places all over the country that do similar things to support their teams in some way. And the fact that people are changing one word in an anthem that's sung a million times a year at every sports event on all levels has nothing to do with respect (or lack thereof) for the military.

I think spending trillions of dollars to needlessly occupy other countries and put our military men and women in harm's way is being far more disrespectful to them than changing a word in a damn song, even if it is our national anthem.

Brianna Zaleski 8 years, 2 months ago

You are the dumbest a$$ poster on this site now. It will be hard to de-throne you... So, with your logic, since the anthem is sung so many time throughout the year, it is okay to be disrespectful some of the times. Because, hey, they sing it so many times so what's the big deal. Right? Well millions of men and women have died defending this country, is it okay then to be disrespectfuk at some of their funerals? Because, hey, we honor our veterans so much anyway, what's the big deal.
That "song" is a reprensentation of the men and women that died defending this country and of the vision that made this country what it is today. Disrespecting it ONE time is too many times, and the fact that Bill Self has gone so far as to mention it when he knows it is going to get out, shoukd tell you that it IS offensive.
You are a dumba$$ of the highest order

actorman 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm saying that because the song is done so ridiculously often, it loses the power that it might have had if it was only done on truly special occasions. I guess we just have a fundamental difference in how important we think the song is.

As I said, we could show a lot more respect for the men and women in the military if we stopped having them risk their lives occupying other countries for no defined purpose, and if we did a much better job of taking care of them once they were back home. I think those things are far more important than symbols, and I think a lot of times people are more concerned with symbolism than with reality.

dylans 8 years, 2 months ago

George Carlin once said, "Leave symbolism to the symbol minded." And if you need an explanation the quote probably applies to you.

actorman 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm saying that because the song is done so ridiculously often, it loses the power that it might have had if it was only done on truly special occasions. I guess we just have a fundamental difference in how important we think the song is.

As I said, we could show a lot more respect for the men and women in the military if we stopped having them risk their lives occupying other countries for no defined purpose, and if we did a much better job of taking care of them once they were back home. I think those things are far more important than symbols, and I think a lot of times people are more concerned with symbolism than with reality.

Kyle Rohde 8 years, 2 months ago

What are some of these "places all over the country that do similar things to support their teams"? I've been to a lot of venues and watched a lot of sports on TV, and the only places I ever have seen the Anthem modified like this is at Arrowhead and AFH.

Now, how to solve this problem? Get Self to record a 15 second video played before the National Anthem at AFH. Problem solved.

OKHawkFan 8 years, 2 months ago

The OU Sooners Do it at every home football game. I believe they same home of the BOOMER!! Or it could be Sooner not sure which one.

actorman 8 years, 2 months ago

One place that comes to mind is that I believe at Oregon, when they sing, "Oh say does that ...," they all scream the "O" and do the symbol for Oregon. I've heard of many other places that do similar types of things. (And yes, I realize that in the Oregon situation they're technically not changing anything, but the concept is the same.)

actorman 8 years, 2 months ago

That's one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen on this site.

You act like Chiefs fans are the only ones who alter the anthem in any way. There are places all over the country that do similar things to support their teams in some way. And the fact that people are changing one word in an anthem that's sung a million times a year at every sports event on all levels has nothing to do with respect (or lack thereof) for the military.

I think spending trillions of dollars to needlessly occupy other countries and put our military men and women in harm's way is being far more disrespectful to them than changing a word in a damn song, even if it is our national anthem.

kranny 8 years, 2 months ago

I didn't feel that Gary was whining. He did mention it being inexplicable but it sounded to me more like coach Self taking issue with it and using the media as a sounding board. I'm on the fence with this one. If it ended with "home of the Jayhawks or Hawks" would this article be written? Would the same people being offended by the "Chiefs" ending be offended with the "Hawks" ending. For point of discussion, just askin'.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

I am offended by removing the original word brave and substituting any other word. It shows a definite lack of respect.

kranny 8 years, 2 months ago

Point taken but if I had to choose(which I'm glad that I don't) I'd rather have that than watching folks from other ethnic backgrounds sit down during the playing of the anthem as I've seen at High School games. That to me is more disrespectful.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

I am not sure what you mean by "ethnic". I consider myself ethnic*, Polish-Irish-American. But you probably would not know from looking at me. If for some reason I was not standing during the national anthem, though unless I was injured I would be, Would you label me as just another one of those ethnic people sitting down?

*• of or relating to national and cultural origins : we recruit our employees regardless of ethnic origin. • denoting origin by birth or descent rather than by present nationality : ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. • characteristic of or belonging to a non-Western cultural tradition : cheap ethnic dresses | folk and ethnic

s6u6r6f 8 years, 2 months ago

Would you have a problem with folks of your own ethnic background sitting during the anthem? People who don't respect the playing of the anthem may be boors, but their actions confirm the rights granted to all by the country which that anthem honors. Not everywhere in the world works the same way. Go to a movie in Thailand. When the king's picture shows up and his anthem starts playing, just stay seated. See how that works out for you in the land of smiles.

kranny 8 years, 2 months ago

I've said the anthem with the Chiefs ending and I can honestly say that I meant no disrespect to our military. I guess I consider a varied group of Americans as being brave including the Chiefs and their fans. But I will also say that saying it in Allen is a bit weird. My question is why would you want to say it in Allen? Although I am a chiefs fan it doesn't seem to fit in Allen.

jayhawktownie 8 years, 2 months ago

Gary tweets about this every game. Guarantee you it was he who brought it up to Self. HCBS merely gave the savvy, politically correct answer that we would all expect from him.

Kye Clark 8 years, 2 months ago

“I kept asking my wife, ‘What are they saying?’’’ said Self, informed by wife, Cindy, that some of the students mimic fans at Arrowhead Stadium

That alone tells you that it wasn't just a spur of the moment comment Gary brought up to Self. He kept asking his wife. Multiple times. If Gary had brought it up, then would he need to ask his wife?

THEETG 8 years, 2 months ago

Self tweeted weeks ago that he didn't like it.

Kye Clark 8 years, 2 months ago

So yell it at the Chiefs game...what does it have to do with the Jayhawks? Oh right...they think they're being clever.

The Chiefs are incredibly lame anyway, and that alone means it should be banned from AFH

Ben Kliewer 8 years, 2 months ago

It's all the hipsters with all their irony and complicated shoes...

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

Your attempt at humor has fallen flat on its face. Quite possibly the most inane comment on the subject on this board.

Al Salazar 8 years, 2 months ago

You would have anger issues too if you were a Denver donkey fan and had to listen to "home of the Chiefs".

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

Not a donkey fan and I don't have anger issues. I just call them like I see them.
The comment was not funny.

Home of the chiefs has no place in Allen field house let alone bastardizing the national anthem.

Robert Brock 8 years, 2 months ago

Gentlemen, this is a hot button topic that has been brought up numerous times for MONTHS on KU message boards, as well as Facebook and Twitter. Fans have been eager for Self to address this. It may seem trivial, but it is clearly unpatriotic and frankly, it makes the fan base appear plain ignorant. Leave the Chiefs traditions at Arrowhead. There's no place for it in Allen.

Al Salazar 8 years, 2 months ago

Gentlemen, this is a hot button topic that has been brought up numerous times for *YEARS on KU message boards, as well as Facebook and Twitter. Fans have been eager for Self to address this. It may seem trivial, but it is clearly unpatriotic and frankly, it makes the fan base appear plain ignorant. Leave the Chiefs traditions at Arrowhead. There's no place for it in Allen.

*fyp

KJD 8 years, 2 months ago

I graduated from KU in 1994 and went to many games at Allen Field House. I went there to watch the Jayhawk's play basketball. I didn't go there to celebrate my national identity or honor military veterans. The only thing that was on my agenda was Kansas Basketball.

I get it that people are really into their identity as an "American". When I go to the Fieldhouse the only identity that I'm aware of is that I'm a Kansan and I love Kansas basketball. I love it.

I also appreciate that Bill Self honor's veterans. If the coach has a pride for his country, that's great. He obviously isn't alone in his feelings for the USA and there are plenty of military people in my family so I understand the intensity behind it. I don't agree with the intensity on this particular issue nor do I share the passion over the song. The USA is a good place, it has it's fair share of problems too, though I'm not going to make the singing of the national anthem a sacred act. It isn't sacred.

The Fieldhouse is a place for fun, not politics.

MinnesotaJay 8 years, 2 months ago

"It isn't sacred."

I'm not going quibble with you about the precise meaning of 'sacred', and perhaps it's viewed slightly differently by different folks.

But, surely you have noticed that when the band begins to play 'The Star Spangled Banner,' most folks stop what they're doing, place their right hand over their heart, and turn and attentatively face the flag during the playing of the song. Many even sing along (as if the words actually mean something to them).

The fact that this has been happening at the beginning of sporting events all over the country for a long, long time isn't something that just randomly came about. It means a helluva a lot to a lot of people.

Maybe it doesn't mean much to you. Hey, your privilege, pal. Free country, just like the words in the song. You don't want to participate? Fine, don't. But, why take it that last step and do something which you know others consider disrespectful?

Besides, the song doesn't last that long, and it doesn't really infringe on your right to have fun.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

A bette reply on the subject will not be written

KJD 8 years, 2 months ago

Relax. It's only a song. It's one word in a song. Instead of being overly corrective about some people not doing it exactly right, find compassion in your heart and understand that it is a sporting event where people go to have fun. Obviously people are in the mood to be great fans of Kansas Basketball and this is a place where fans get to express that spirit, even if someone else feels that the way they are expressing their spirit is a bit messy. It's a messy world and it's best people learn to work with through Compassion and Love rather than trying to control it.

If some students, and a lot of students it sounds like, are in the spirit of having fun like the fans at Allen are widely known for, and then some say 'Chiefs', you have a choice in how you respond to that. I suggest that it would be a good idea to have some awareness of where you are at and relax, enjoy the atmosphere. Let it go.

I'm well aware of the history of the song at sporting events. There is a wide variety of ways in which people think about the song, the way they feel about it, what it means. Perhaps you should find contentment with the fact that the song is played and most all people stop what they are doing when it is played. Why is that not enough? What is it about certain people's makeup that need to be so strict and severe about a song, not only for themselves, but everybody around them?

Instead of contentment and compassion there is an attitude of righteousness about something that is clearly political in nature. If you start adding concepts to the song as being sacred then you are veering off into an idolatry that I will never participate in nor do I want it pressured upon me or anyone else.

When you hear 'Chiefs' I suggest Compassion. Love. Contentment. These are much better options than taking your personal unease and turning it into confrontation, control, and righteousness. Saying 'Chiefs' instead of 'Hawks sounded odd to me at first but I think there is a good discussion above on why this isn't inexplicable. But to add the severe nationalistic or militaristic interpretation to this subject is too much and too far, especially in the land of the free.

MinnesotaJay 8 years, 2 months ago

Righteousness? Frankly, your missive is dripping with it.

"Relax. It's only a song." Fallacy of reduction. Next, it'll become just the sound of air being forced through brass tubes, or a little ditty the boys cooked up for the folks amusment before tipoff. No, it is definitely not 'just a song.'

"Compassion. Love. Contentment. These are much better options than taking your personal unease and turning it into confrontation, control, and righteousness."

Really? Hey, why not climb off of it there, fella? Everybody already knows that AFH is a place to have fun. Everybody already gets that. And, the very fact that nobody wants to get confrontational is why it has fallen upon the universally respected head basketball coach to respectfully ask that people realize it's inappropriate to alter the lyrics to the national anthem, and to ask them to please stop doing it. Everybody is already against the straw men you are quick to interject.

"But to add the severe nationalistic or militaristic interpretation to this subject is too much and too far..."

Here's a thought. If you feel that some of the posters here have done that, then please direct this commentary to them. Otherwise, enough with the straw men already.

KJD 8 years, 2 months ago

Your perspective is not 'everybody'. Sorry.

Unfortunately it is 'only a song' for many other people, including those who are comfortable in calling themselves 'Americans' and 'Jayhawk fans'.

You commented directly to me on my post so your whole 'straw man' attitude and I should "direct my comments somewhere else" is quite odd. This is clearly the place to clarify my perspective.

Actually, the folks that should 'climb off of it' is the head coach of basketball who started this up and the reporters who made this a headline story. Bill Self is a great head coach of basketball. That is an essential point. He's only a basketball coach. It's a game. I hope he retires here after a long career. I personally respect him quite a lot but that doesn't mean I agree with all of his thoughts and attitudes. Particularly when it comes to politics and thrusting that viewpoint in a space that I have a strong relationship to.

The Fieldhouse should not be a place where we play out these kind of perspectives, especially when one group is telling another that they are behaving inappropriately. Please, it is a juiced up raucous crowd. So if I sound as righteous in my opinion in order to contrast and communicate my ideas, then hopefully it is articulate and worth adding to the discussion. Still, the term 'righteous' is being used to identify the people who think that there is only one way to behave during the singing of the national anthem. There are many ways to handle the situation and I offer some alternatives on how to handle the distress of the utterance of 'Chiefs' that it appears to cause in people.

The fans of Allen Fieldhouse have creatively cheered Kansas Basketball long before Bill Self showed up. I'm confident that it will endure well past his departure too. I think he should be careful about what he says we should and should not do in the stands and for what reasons–which is not to be misinterpreted as my belief that all behavior is justified. That creative spirit of Allen Fieldhouse has a life of its own and it is not mine and it is not yours and it is not Bill Self's. It's a diverse collective and this is a case that really should be tolerated.

Personally I think it would be better to say 'Hawks' or 'Jayhawks' instead of 'Chiefs'. But that is just my opinion. If they want to say 'Chiefs' they get to say 'Chiefs'. No harm, no foul. Inserting this notion that we must dutifully act in a certain manner in the Fieldhouse, on this issue, for this reason, is peculiar for a guy who gets paid millions to coach a game. He is not our collective moralist.

It is no one individual's place to say what is appropriate when it comes to how one must honor their country...at a basketball game.

MinnesotaJay 8 years, 2 months ago

This thread has become so deeply buried that it's doubtful anyone other than you and I are still involved. Look, I agree with almost every sentiment you've expressed, just not the conclusion. Personally, short of advocating anarchy, you will not be able to find anyone who is any more politically or religiously liberal than I am. I don't even reside in the U.S.

By the way, I don't think HCBS is trying to position himself as the 'Chief (Collective) Moralist' at KU, but rather is expressing the mainstream viewpoint that the song alteration in question should be halted, in hopes that upon reflection, the participants will think better of their actions and 'alter' their 'inappropriate' [opinion] behavior. Honestly, I infer much more moralizing in your posts than from anything Bill Self has said.

Really, it is absurd to suggest that the song is 'just a song.' No one, and I mean no one is unaware of the fact that as the national anthem it occupies a special status. The only question is just how much, if any, respect does that status warrant. To say that it's 'just a song' is to say that it warrants no more respect than any other song, and if that is your belief, I will support you while holding a different view.

Since nobody is forcing anybody to do anything here, this comes down to what is or isn't appropriate. If you want to stand solely on what your freedoms will get you, they'll get plenty. There are many things a person is free to do, i.e., has a perfect right to do, but which are inappropriate based on nothing more than good manners and good judgment.

Sometimes, you have to draw lines to determine whether a particular action at a particular time or place is or isn't appropriate. HCBS, on behalf of the vast majority, and presumably the university, is simply 'asking' folks to reconsider where they've drawn the line.

If, after reconsidering, you feel that the line should stay right where it is, then again, that is your privilege. There is currently an attempt underway to persuade you and others to change a behavior. Nobody is forcing you.

dylans 8 years, 2 months ago

Calm down a little, Bill is just trying to class up the joint. There are many ways to be creative without being disrespectful (even if it doesn't personally offend). Yes you have the right of free speech, just try and remember why.

sevenyearhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Robert Kennedy gave a speech at Allen Fieldhouse on March 18, 1968

Joe Joseph 8 years, 2 months ago

Not sure I have ever done this, but......

+1

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

When you say, "The USA is a good place, it has it's fair share of problems..." I detect another self-hating American who doesn't understand or appreciate this country. When I was at KU I'd run into these fools who would say, "The USA and USSR both have problems and are both at fault for the Cold War."

There was no comparison between the USA and the USSR, or the Holocaust and what happened to Native Americans and/or slavery, etc. Compare the benefits the US has given its citizens and the world with its shortcomings and then compare that to another nation. The US wins hands down and it's not even close.

Tens of Millions would be enslaved to Nazi or Soviet or Imperial Japanese tyranny if not for the US. And here - the bloodiest war in the Western Hemisphere was fought to free slaves.

Unfortunately much of this anti-American garbage was taught at Wescoe.

KJD 8 years, 2 months ago

The conditions that caused the Cold War and the other subjects that you trotted out are much more subtle than the way you have presented it here on your post. Wescoe taught people how to think beyond binary or even linear thinking which is a good thing for leaders of people in a complicated world. The University is a place to expand your mind and there are plenty of classes at the University of Kansas that will teach you to think about and consider these subjects you have brought up in a much more sophisticated way.

I have a family member who has spent years in Iraq, is a diplomat and received an honor's degree from one of the departments that find their home in Wescoe. He certainly is not anti-American. Your characterization of the Liberal Arts and the people who take those classes which help them to become good leaders for this country is highly questionable, perhaps naive, definitely lurid as a rhetoric.

It is silly to make the logical jump that I'm 'self-hating' because I don't find national anthems to be sacred or the United States to be some ideal land of providence that must be revered in specific mannerisms at basketball home games.

s6u6r6f 8 years, 2 months ago

But how much of it could we stoners have learned?

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Arrowhead Stadium is the Home of the Chiefs.

Arrowhead Stadium is in Missouri.

We are obviously being infiltrated by communist hillbilly forces that are trying to make Kansas, Lawrence, Allen Fieldhouse and the Jayhawks look stupid and Un-American.

It is working. It must be stopped immediately.

Make everyone entering Allen Fieldhouse take an IQ test. Leave the dumb ones out in the cold and we won't have any more problems.

OR - maybe they're saying "home of the CHEESE" ?

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

LOL!

"communist hillbilly forces"

PHOF!

Fletcher Anderson 8 years, 2 months ago

How many wins has Self provided for KU fans to enjoy at the field house? Enough to make it #1 in all of basketball. If his one request is fans stop saying Chiefs at the end of the national anthem, then we should honor his request.

manginodrh00lz 8 years, 2 months ago

You're the one who started the chant! Talk to your minions.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

Ok, now this is the most inane comment on the subject.

Bion Ostrander 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree with Coach Self, keep the national anthem words original.

As for the preoccupation with removing the "whoo", I don't get it and who really cares but a few snobs. Its NOT the national anthem after all!

This must be the same people that get all bent out of shape when the LJW writers refer to Kansas University and not the University of Kansas. Well if you want to use the University of Kansas, then it would only be proper to use the related acronym "U of K" (KU would clearly not be the proper acronym for University of Kansas) - - so you can't have it both ways.

Let the kids have some fun with the whoo. And if you only believe in preserving strict traditions that never change, then lets bring back peach baskets and Naismith's original 13 rules to basketball - - sometimes change is good and there is no real harm.

Phoghorn 8 years, 2 months ago

The reason I want the Woo out is because it defeates the purpose of the chant. Without the woo, the chant echoes off the walls of AFH or Memorial Stadium in a rather eerie, but unique fashion. The woo disrupts that. This is no different than a rest in a piece of music.

Robert Brock 8 years, 2 months ago

I think that the students should be able to insert the "Home of the Chiefs" line once the Kansas City Chiefs have won a Super Bowl. That limitation should keep it out for at least another 50 years.

jhkprd 8 years, 2 months ago

Here's the solution. Allen is the home of the Jayhawks, and the Jayhawks are certainly brave. So beginning next home game, everyone yell at the top of their lungs, "...home of the JAYHAWKS!" What could be more appropriate?????

frompekka2sasha 8 years, 2 months ago

Outstanding idea for "drowning" out the idiots.

RockCaCO3 8 years, 2 months ago

  1. Allen is not the home of the Chiefs.
  2. The Chiefs suck.
  3. STOP THE WOO!

RCJHGKU!

Cody Stumma 8 years, 2 months ago

Now if they can just stop it during the KU football games as well...

RockChalk26 8 years, 2 months ago

Huh? And all this time I thought the Chiefs played in Arrowhead not AFH.

JayViking 8 years, 2 months ago

Editors: Please fix the caption. Date of game is not correct.

jazzhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Actually, that photo and info is from the Women's game a couple of weeks ago. Funny.

jazzhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Actually, that photo and info is from the Women's game a couple of weeks ago. Funny.

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 2 months ago

When I saw the picture I wandered why in the world the JW would show a photo of a half empty AFH in an article about the Men's BBall coach. I can't imagine AFH ever being that empty for a men's BBall game. Pretty lame.

Dave Coen 8 years, 2 months ago

This is another reason Coach Self is the greatest coach in America. I would like to cheer for the Chiefs, but I refuse to do so as long as Chiefs fans are disrepectful of our national anthem in Kansas City or Lawrence. In addition, any mention of the Chiefs at a Jayhawk game cheapens our great Jayhawk traditions.

slantrox 8 years, 2 months ago

Yesterday so many of you were upset that KU looked bad by not giving Brock Burgland his release.......and now I can't believe there is even debate over whether to sing the National Anthem correctly or at all?

It really saddens me about those at/from my alma matter when I read that we have fans that not only would think like this (being intentionally disrespectful of our anthem and veterans that gave their lives so they can act like a$ses), but write about it.

Be proud of your country with all it's warts or stay home! Just like most of you fair weather fans do for KU football.

oldrocker 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't know why you would want to sing "home of the Chiefs" in AFH, but then, we are talking about college kids. They are not doing it for any reason other than to be funny.

When I was at KU (late 70's) we used to sing, "O're the land of Lloyd Free, (an NBA basketball player at that time) and the home of the Braves (baseball team)". We weren't trying to be disrespectful, we just thought it was funny.

THEETG 8 years, 2 months ago

Set aside the issues with it being the national anthem (I think the university makes a mistake when using this while trying to reason with students). This is Allen Fieldhouse, the most respected college basketball arena in the world. Its the home of the Jayhawks. Since Bill Self arrived, KU basketball is 252-49. The Chiefs are 57-71 during that time. Why would you disrespect the players, coaches and history of the school by yelling the name of a mediocre, at best, football team FROM MISSOURI? Don't we pride ourselves on our traditions and basketball IQ? This isn't K-State or Mizzou, we don't pump up Jock Jams during the games, we don't invent traditions like the Power Towel, we don't pack our jort pockets full of meth before every game. We are the Kansas Effing Jayhawks, we invented basketball. We are 100x better than the Chiefs.

Stop yelling it at football games as well. Our coaching staff has 7 times as many Super Bowl wins as the Chiefs. If you want to yell Chiefs that bad, go to a Chiefs game.

sloppyscience 8 years, 2 months ago

That was perfect. Your beer is on me, sir.

Al Salazar 8 years, 2 months ago

"Our coaching staff has 7 times as many Super Bowl wins.."

Romeo Crennel head coach - 5 Super Bowl wins

Maurice Carthon asst. head coach - 4 Super Bowl wins

Bill Muir off. coord/off. line -1 Super Bowl win

Gary Gibbs linebackers coach - Gibbs began his football career at Oklahoma, spending 23 years at the school as either a player or a coach. Over that span, the Sooners appeared in 16 bowl games and won three national championships (’74, ’75 and ’85)

Steve Hoffman special teams coach - 3 Super Bowl wins

Bernie Parmalee tight ends coach - In his first season with the Chiefs, Parmalee was instrumental in the development of TE Tony Moeaki (D3b-10). The tight end caught 47 passes a year ago, the top mark by a rookie TE in Chiefs history. His 556 receiving yards trailed only TE Walter White (559) for the best total by a rookie TE in club annals.

Pat Perles asst. off. line - A year ago, the Chiefs led the NFL by averaging 164.2 rushing yards per game. It was just the second time the club had paced the league in rushing in team history.

Anthony Pleasant def. line coach - 2 Super Bowl wins

Otis Smith Def. quality control - 1 Super Bowl win

Emmitt Thomas def. backs - 3 Super Bowl wins

Adam Zimmer def. asst. asst. linbackers - 1 Super Bowl win

Jim Zorn quarterbacks coach - Zorn oversaw a Seattle passing game that threw 26 touchdown passes despite starting two different quarterbacks in 2006. Hasselbeck was elected to his second Pro Bowl following the 2005 season after compiling a career-high 98.2 passer rating to rank fourth in the NFL. The club won 11 consecutive games and advanced to Super Bowl XL.

This is 13 of the Chiefs 16 coaches

20 Super Bowl wins (Coaches only, not even counting the player's Super Bowl rings)

162 years NFL coaching experience

Nice try with the Super Bowl ring smack though!

Your first fail was comparing a collegiate staff with an NFL staff.

dylans 8 years, 2 months ago

Wrong the KU staff has seven times the Super Bowl wins of the Chiefs not the Chiefs staff. If you want to complain, the game of basketball was not invented in Kansas, but rather on the East coast (I believe in Philly).

Al Salazar 8 years, 2 months ago

Sayeth the Donkey fan / Tebow worshipper! Better than associating yourself with the Donks! You can't even go to a game in that trash pit at mile high!

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 2 months ago

Been away too long..haven't heard the 'Chiefs' version, don't understand why at KU. Does the U of Missouri also use the altered version?

Why does the caption on the photo say:

"Many fans turned out to watch Kansas’ game against Kansas State on Saturday, Jan. 7, 2012 at Allen Fieldhouse. The Jayhawks fell to the Wildcats, 63-57."?

And what dose that photo have to do w/the story?

rxjayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I understand there are a lot of Chiefs fans in this area, I am one of them. But seriously, if you don't care about being disrespectful to the anthem or country or military or whatever, that is your call. But look at it this way, you are disrespecting Allen Fieldhouse and Bill Self because he finds that offensive. And Allen Fieldhouse is home to one team only, the Jayhawks.

Joe Joseph 8 years, 2 months ago

Chanting "Chiefs" at the end of the national anthem is about as big a deal as chanting "Rip is f***ing head off" on kick offs.

Honestly, no one should care.

rwhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I think the *** is a significant difference.

rwhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

A bit of irony: It seems to me that "Chiefs" is quite American. Had it not been for the Native Americans, the Pilgrims would not have survived.

I've never thought it was disrespectful to country to hear Arrowhead yell 'Chiefs!' But I have thought it was just really stupid in Allen Fieldhouse.

As far as the woo, several years ago I'd have been all over the "stop the woo" campaign. However, the woo is what sold my children on the chant, so it has officially taken root in my heart. tear

Roooock Chaaalk Jaaayhawk, KKKKUUUU, WOOOOOO!

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 2 months ago

You must learn the origin of the name before you post.

The Chief were not named after Native Americans. The name was selected in a contest where "Chief" was Mayor Bartle's nickname and got the most votes. The Arrowhead and Tomahawk chop were an afterthought that came later.

rwhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Cool, thanks for the clarification and history lesson. And your point is understood. However, this "Chiefs" is still tied specifically to the historic Native Americans. Words mean in context and by adding in those 'afterthoughts', the name Chief loses its generic meaning of being the head of a group or people (and even its tie to a Mayor) and specifically ties it to the historic Native Americans. That's the challenge with language, it changes and meaning is poured into words, not the other way around. (Example: that's why everyone is talking about the NFL team to the east and not a generic prince, ruler, head or chief. It has meaning in context).

elanorh 8 years, 2 months ago

I tear up when my little kids do the Rock Chalk Chant, too. They've loved it since they were toddlers. But my kids know the real chant. They also like to yell and cheer throughout the game (and woo!) but they know that woos don't belong in the Rock Chalk Chant.

Try explaining the chant to your kids, you might be surprised by how well they love it without the woo. It doesn't belong, and it cheapens our school, our chant, and our fandom.

It's not too late to teach them the real chant. And they can teach others. This is where change begins. We had the Rock Chalk chant in its traditional form for over a century. First time I heard the 'woo' I thought the opposing team's fans were doing it to throw the chant off! It's recent, it doesn't fit, and it diminishes the chant and our traditions.

DocBean 8 years, 2 months ago

I am in full support of yelling "Home of the Chiefs" .... at a Chiefs game in Arrowhead Stadium.

It doesn't fit in Allen, and anyone that thinks KU Basketball should take a back seat to ANY NFL team or game, including the Superbowl, is WRONG!

Al Salazar 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree with Doc's post wholeheartedly...except for the Super Bowl reference. I love everything KU, but no sports event is bigger than the Super Bowl.

Sam Brockert 8 years, 2 months ago

Ok, I agree the words should not be changed. But what I do disagree with is everyone saying this is disrespectful to the military. I am for the military as much as anyone, but they do not own the national anthem. The national anthem is just that, national, it is there to honor our country as a whole. It is VERY disrespectful to the country, but not specifically the miltary.

Ray March 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm glad Self said something about this. Maybe it will stop now. I have hated this since I was a freshman at KU.

I don't care about it being disrespectful to our anthem or anything. I don't think that's the case. It sounds cool in Arrowhead Stadium. I just hate that in AFH people are saying it's the home of "The Chiefs". AFH isn't the home of the Chiefs.

Ron Prichard 8 years, 2 months ago

Allen Fieldhouse is NOT the home of the Chiefs! It is, however, consistently the home of the best college basketball experience and team in the country. I used to camp out for games when I was a student and I don't ever remember yelling home of the Chiefs. Why would I?

  1. There is more tradition with KU basketball than the Chiefs will ever have.
  2. Allen is in Lawrence, KS. The Chiefs are in Kansas City, MO.
  3. It is disrespectful to our service men and women as well as the country in general.
  4. It makes absolutely NO sense.

I think people should yell "Home of the Brave!" at the end, but if they absolutely must yell something, why not "Home of the Jayhawks!?"

PS--Get rid of the damn Wooo! We're not a bunch of pre-pubescent girls at a sleepover looking at pullout pictures of Justin Beiber in Teen Magazine. Or are we...?

Phoghorn 8 years, 2 months ago

OMG like there is the girl in front of us, and OMG she is totally wearing the wrong eye shadow for her foundation. And she is seriously wearing gray UGGs with black leggings. Like hello, you wear pink or tan Uggs with leggings! Not gray! OMG it is time to WOOOOOOOO!

Okay, just so I don't appear sexist, now the guy version:

Dude check out that hot cheerleader! That (riiiiiip) hot cheerleader? No (belch) that hot cheerleader. AW @^%* I forgot to WOOO 'cause I was checking out the hot cheerleader. Okay got it this time..,WOOOOOOOOOOO! Dude we need to order a keg of Pabst Blue Ribbon for tonight. PBR? H#LL No! It's Natty Light tonight. WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Ron Prichard 8 years, 2 months ago

Love it! The only scary part is you appear to know to wear pink or tan Uggs with leggings. There is just something a little wrong with that. :0

Phoghorn 8 years, 2 months ago

Been surrounded by women my whole life, so I can't help it...you tend to learn these things from former girlfriends...

Phoghorn 8 years, 2 months ago

Especially when she is critiquing the other ladies in the arena.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 2 months ago

Let me propose an unbiased, unprejudiced, fair solution:

1] For all great Kansas Jayhawk fans and truly loyal Americans who love their country and respect those that have served and especially those who have made the ultimate sacrifice to defend it, please sing "brave".

2] For all you self-centered, living in the past, irrelevant Kansas City Chiefs fans who place self-gratification above patriotism and loyalty, while maintaining delusions of grandeur, at that point in the song, run out into the parking lot and yell "Chiefs"....and stay there.

Posted for humor only with no malice whats so ever.....unless you happen to be a Chiefs fan who prefers to dishonor our country.

sloppyscience 8 years, 2 months ago

Excellent post, great solution. Or maybe we can just get the people at camarowhead to show ku games on their jumbotron, then all the mullet sporting people in red and yellow striped pajama pants can go watch the games there and chant chiefs all they want.

Steve Kubler 8 years, 2 months ago

Not to change the subject.... well actually TO change the subject. Doing a press conference shortly after a root canal shows a bit of grit. I'd expect to bite my tongue and bleed or drool all over myself if I tried talking that much with a mouth full of Novocaine.

I'm glad HCBS is keeping TRob out of the spotlight this week. There are too many media people (and others) that would want to question him in detail about the happenings of a year ago. One more reason to be glad Self is the man in charge.

Love Pitino's quote on the Fieldhouse being the most “overpowering” arena in the country. I am sure getting smoked by 50 points does add to that feeling. I loved watching that one, which I had it on tape so I could watch it again!

How about nominating Releford for president? I think someone that does the "little" things would be a huge improvement. Ok, he's on another thread but until I get my coffee I'm too lazy to switch over.

RCJH, NO WOOO (caps, hopefully)

Oh, and for any students reading this, the Chiefs play football, sort of. Learn the difference in teams. You are in college now, it can't be that difficult.

Yolanda Gay 8 years, 2 months ago

HCBS said before we played and destroyed North Carolina in the NCAA final four that KU was a place with tradition. Tradtionally, I don't remember 'whoos' in the Rock Chalk Chant. I also don't recall 'Home of the Chiefs' tradtionally in the National Anthem.

The Anthem is the Anthem of our Nation - the United States of America. As such, when singing or if being played - this song should not be altered and respected! I'm sure there are those at the game who are military veterans. I wonder how they feel hearing 'chiefs' instead of brave.

The Rock Chalk Chant is KU's 'anthem'. What is wrong with keeping with tradition and singing it the way it originally was?

Pretty soon, KU will have no traditions and will become like any other college school.

quigley 8 years, 2 months ago

While were at it can we also get rid of the "You let the whole team down" stupid chant? I think they have been doing this for about 5 years. So embarrassing that we can't come up with something better than that. That is like a 5th grade level I would guess.

tom123kufan 8 years, 2 months ago

All i can say is Texas better strap them up tomorrow. An emotional charged KU squad is coming to town looking for some revenge from last year. Texas played the role of kicking a team when they were down, not that they didn't deserve to win the game, but i'm sure it left a bad taste in the mouths of our kids. Look for a physical game tomorrow. Is that Crimson or is that Blood!

HawkKlaw 8 years, 2 months ago

Honestly, the last thing I care about when I'm watching KU basketball is whether or not the national anthem is sung correctly. No disrespect to anyone. I just don't really "get it" when it comes to singing the national anthem before every game...all the time...in every sport. It's a cool song and all, but seriously.

Bee Bee 8 years, 2 months ago

If you happen to be a CHEFS fan you have enough problems! The tradition of mediocrity continues.

joeloveshawks 8 years, 2 months ago

Wow. Slow news day I guess. How and why is this a full article?

Tony Bandle 8 years, 2 months ago

Totally new string:

For some reason, Missouri doesn't scare me at all and I think we can sweep them. Please forgive me, but for the greater good [another Kansas League Title] I may be inclined to cheer for Missouri to hand Baylor another loss.

I know, I know...this goes beyond sacrilege, but I still feel Baylor is the team to beat and the more losses they have, the better.

Feel free to rip me a new one!!

PS Of course, if Missouri loses, I'll still toast their defeat with a celebratory glass of wine as is our tradition!!!

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

You propose a quandary. Too bad Baylor and Mizzery can't just tie. That way neither would have a win. Course there's the opposite. Neither would have a lose. At least we know that one will receive a lose, droppng them a notch.

I agree that Baylor is the team to worry about more. But I'd really like to see mizzery leave the conference with as many bu** kickings as possible. The traitors.

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Oops. Should be "loss", not lose on the above. Sorry.

Hank Cross 8 years, 2 months ago

Both Mizery and Baylor will finish out of the top 10 and KU will win the B12.

sleepy33 8 years, 2 months ago

I, for one, think we should just be proud that we have a head coach intelligent enough to know that Francis Scott Key wrote the words to the Star-Spangled Banner.

Phoghorn 8 years, 2 months ago

Yell "Chiefs" Do the WOO Chant "Overrated" Rush the court if we beat Mizzou, and Texas, and Texas Tech, and Emporia State. Demolish AFH and replace it with a a boring, round place called Burger King Arena. Play "Who Let the Dog's Out" everytime the team runs onto the court. Watch as KSU wins a Big 12 Conference Championship in MBB. Mail the Statue of Coach Phog Allen to Massachusetts. Lose a bunch of games in Burger King Arena every season.

There, now you have just killed off every tradition that makes KU Basketball awesome.

bmoc4213 8 years, 2 months ago

The student section most definitely is not like anything it used to be. Students have less wit, less respect, and have by far less unity. I am thankful that we continue to have the best home court advantage. Allen Fieldhouse should be a national/world monument. I applaud all the efforts of the student section to bring it to what it is today, but this is somewhat shameful.

HawkKlaw 8 years, 2 months ago

You start by dissing the current student section, then go on to applaud them for making it what it is today...I am confused.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

Sorry, don't lump them together. My nephew currently rocks the chalk at KU and is in attendance at quite a few games. His is neither disrespectful or lacking in wit. As far as no unity, I am not sure what you mean. There are many large groups of students organized to take turns waiting in line hours before game time to get tickets. They have actually have given their groups topical names referencing this years current team. Then there was last years flash dance in the stands. I'm pretty sure that takes some unity. In summation. You are wrong.

Alohahawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Please, don't give the slogan gods any ideas. Last thing this board needs is an additional chant debate.

Who'd a thought, during a great Jayhawk season, that one of the more heated debates on this board would involve word choice, semantics or whatever you would term them?

BigJay81 8 years, 2 months ago

Who cares, you ask? What's the big deal? Let me tell you, IT IS A BIG DEAL. It's a big enough deal that our men's basketball coach commented on it weeks ago and again on Thursday. It's a big deal to everyone who finds it OFFENSIVE AND STUPID. It's a big deal to anyone who cares about KU - NOT THE CHIEFS. It's a big deal to everyone who posted their objection to it.

Stop being so disrespectful and selfish and realize IT IS A BIG DEAL TO A LOT OF US!

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 2 months ago

To all posters that believe the Chiefs were named after brave Native Americans, here is snippet about the origin of the name:

"Hunt agreed to relocate the franchise to Kansas City on May 22, 1963 and on May 26 the team was renamed the Kansas City Chiefs. Hunt and head coach Hank Stram initially planned on retaining the Texans name, but a fan contest determined the new "Chiefs" name in honor of Mayor Bartle's nickname that he acquired in his professional role as Scout Executive of the St. Joseph and Kansas City Boy Scout Councils and founder of the Scouting Society. A total of 4,866 entries were received with 1,020 different names being suggested, including a total of 42 entrants who selected "Chiefs." The two names that received the most popular votes were "Mules" and "Royals.""

So, when "home of the Chiefs" is used at the end of the National Anthem, it is really honoring the former Mayor of Kansas City, Missouri. Very uncool...

Of course, most knowledgeable Chiefs fans already knew this fact, It is the younger, less informed ones that believe the names honors Native Americans...of course, they also believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and that the Chiefs will win a Superbowl any time soon.

rwhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

To all the posters who know their history, thank you. But for those who need some help with how their language works, her is a snippet to help:

Word mean in context. Not only should we ask "what" a word means but also "how" words mean. And because words mean in context, the addition of the afterthoughts like Arrowhead and the Tomahawk chop results in the name Chief losing its generic meaning of being the head of a group or people (and its historic origin, its tie to a Mayor) and specifically ties it to the historic Native Americans. That's the challenge with language, it changes and meaning is poured into words, not the other way around. (Example: that's why everyone is talking about the NFL team to the east and not a generic prince, ruler, head, or chief. It has meaning in context).

So, when "home of the Chiefs" is used at the end of the National Anthem at Arrowhead, very few people are honoring a mayor, but instead cheering for their team...in AFH they are trying to be funny (I guess).

Of course, most knowledgeable people knew all of this, it is the less informed ones that believe language is used in a vacuum.

johnsont1 8 years, 2 months ago

The Chief's logo is an arrowhead, which is a Native American symbol, so there is some overlap there. Technically this is the home of the Native Americans, before they had their land stolen from them, so maybe it's a fitting end to the national anthem.

packywacky88 8 years, 2 months ago

Yeah Pudding!

I'm getting old, but I seem remember either Larry or Roy taking the mic after a chant was going (possibly sit down Norm or something like that) and telling the AFH crowd that "This is KANSAS, and we don't do that @^*#." I personally liked the sit down Norm chant and I think Norm did also.

Why do we win 7(8) Big XII in a row? We are Kansas. Watch other Big XII teams on the TV, Texas, Oklahoma, A&M, they are all half-full. AFH is something no other team has and it shows in the W column. We should keep our traditions, not something silly from KC. AFH is special to us all because of the tradition.

Everyone wants to be Kansas. I can't blame them.

gchawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I love the enthusiasm that the students bring to the game, they are definitely a huge part of the great atmosphere, but I agree with Coach concerning this one specific area. I also wish they would quit saying "Overrated" when we defeat a ranked team. Think about it, by saying that are they implying that the other team is overrated because we beat them? If they are, that's actually an insult to our team. I hope that chant discontinues, we're classier than that.

bangaranggerg 8 years, 2 months ago

Thank God it's been said. I HATE when the students say Chiefs during the Anthem. Doesn't make any sense at all. Our university has no ties to that Football club, and it's really really stupid. I mean on the list of things that bother me and I wish would change this is crazy high up on the list, like probably unnecessairly high on my list.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 2 months ago

Ill talk about t rob while yall talk about respect. T rob went through tradgy in a span of one month while the average person has more 20 years in between. And he is the front runner of poy year later. If he wins, it will trump any personal records set by anyone in ku b ball history.

tashe2 8 years, 2 months ago

Am I the only one that noticed under the picture at the top it says that the JAYHAWKS lost to K-STATE on January 7th 63-57? That is absolutely not the truth, we beat the hell out of them and will do the same in Allen Fieldhouse west later this month.

Another thing, that is a picture of a women's basketball game!!

Come on Gary, get your stuff together!!

Cody Stumma 8 years, 2 months ago

That's the point. The WOMEN'S team lost to Kansas State on the 7th 63-57. So yes, in a way, that is the truth.

wileykufan 8 years, 2 months ago

Thanks Coach! Glad someone is finally saying something! It's embarrassing!

I invited a friend who had never been to a KU game to the Ohio State game - I was so embarrassed to have to explain what they said. When he asked "why?" I couldn't come up with a good reason - because AFH is Certainly NOT the home of the Chiefs!

Maybe he could address the "Woooo" during the RCJH Chant at the end of games?

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

The woo probably isn't going anywhere, at least as long as the cheerleaders do the sign gig where they hold up a "!" sign after rock, chalk, and jayhawk signs.

danmoore 8 years, 2 months ago

Inserting Chiefs in the anthem along with rip your effing head off on the kickoffs sound like creations of an average 3rd grader. My apologies to any of you who happen to be 8 years old.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

I'll assume this was meant as a response to my above post... merely referencing a chant the student section used to use does not mean I condone it, or the use of "Chiefs" during the anthem; I don't.

But you're not 8, so you already knew that.

danmoore 8 years, 2 months ago

Wasn't meant for anyone in particular.

rwhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I think everyone should yell "Put Your Shoes On" right after the Anthem's 'brave'

jayhawks8519 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm curious where this "Kansas University" you speak of is located. As a student at the University of Kansas, I try calling things by their correct names.

Phoghorn 8 years, 2 months ago

Would it depress you to know that I refer to The Flamingo Club as The Dirty Bird?

Alex Parker 8 years, 2 months ago

That's the style the Journal-World has always preferred.

Alex Parker Digital Editor

KANSTUCKY 8 years, 2 months ago

I attended a Atlanta Braves game or two back in the early 90's and they were "clever" enough to add a "s" too the end of the anthem. Not completely disrespectful but enough that it bothered me a bit at the time. So I would guess that you can blame them for the idea in the first place. Any place you can drown out "GBR" with the Rock Chalk Chant I am all for.

Joseph Kuebel 8 years, 2 months ago

Veterans fought and died for this country to allow this freedom of speech and allow us to yell "Chiefs"... They died to let us be able to be stupid and yell such "atrocities". I personally say brave, but I don't think it is as disrespectful as people say it is...

Slow news day is right...

archercc 8 years, 2 months ago

Awesome, I HATED this practice when I lived in KC and had season tix to the Chiefs. Its the anthem, not a song about a football team.

archercc 8 years, 2 months ago

Also, on the T-Rob thing. I really hope they put a proper whoopin on Texas as revenge for taking the streak against a team that hadnt slept all night dealing with a personal tragedy.

Andy Smith 8 years, 2 months ago

Thank you Gary and Coach Self. It is embarrassing to hear the National Anthem so foolishly altered in Allen Fieldhouse. And I agree with a few other posts - the 'woo' has go to go. It's not part of the Rock Chalk Chant. Whatever happened to 'HIT IT!" The 2nd verse is to be followed by a thunderous 'Hit it!'

davehawkSWK 8 years, 2 months ago

For those individuals who feel that there needs to be a change in the National Anthem, would you please just go to the restroom during this time and breathe deeply of the flatulence to get your high and not put a derogatory connotation to the greatest song in the world or to put a mark against the greatest building in the world, AFH, by substituting the word Chiefs for brave. Please understand that chiefs is plural, brave is singular but does encompass the masses by what those people feel and how they act, such as when the basketball program, players/coaches/administration supported TRob in his agony without looking for any personal compensation by putting themselves out for another; or by putting one's life on the line for all those who live in America, regardless of how those recipients stand politically, to ensure the safety of America, or by our law enforcement standing alone on most days and allow others to take verbal potshots at them personally and to their vocation as a whole. If these individuals were from Mizzou, then I would certainly understand their wanting to change the words to garner some sort of feelings of acceptance, albeit in a limited community. KU students, you are much better than this. There needs to be no changing of the words to inflect humor when playing the National Anthem. Please stand in awe and attention to pay tribute to those men and women who have been in the forefront and to those that are still in the forefront, that gave/give you the right to be a butt! Respect our COUNTRY; respect our NATIONAL ANTHEM; and respect our UNIVERSITY!

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree about the chiefs thing, but did you just call the national anthem the greatest song in the world?

And where the heck did that law enforcement thing come from?

dynamitehawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I've got a solution: "And the home of Jaybate"

Brianna Zaleski 8 years, 2 months ago

Speaking of Jaybate, what's happened to kushaw? I used to enjoy his rumblings from time to time. I ask you because I know you have been posting for some time and have to have noticed some posters that seem to just disappear. kushaw, anthonyzal and others. ?????????????

dynamitehawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Kushaw is around. He went legit (not anonymous). He's Chris Shaw. anthonyzal's ID was assassinated by the LJW, but he's likely among us under a new moniker. Otherwise there were some recent exchanges on 100 who likely passed on. I've been spending more time on the live blogs...

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

Duh, is your real name Felonious Monk? :-)

And, yes, I get a huge kick out of champagne and the sudden, charged, but disposable aliases hatched for hit and run attack posting.

It looks like hack training, not like paid media retreat stuff a few years back. You can get this kind of training now lots of places just by reading a few web sites. It used to be you had to pay some bones to get the attack training.

Do it more, would you?

I'm a huge fan of Bob Lucas' rational expectations scholarship.

We learn every time attack posters attack.

Come up with another one right now.

Help us learn.

We keep learning about attack posting and the more we learn the less effect it has.

We are vaccinated by attack posting.

How about "Battery," or "Misdemeanor"?

Isn't the idea to pick a charged word for the alias and then associate the charged word alias with another alias being attacked; then move on to another charged word alias and attack again?

Build up a string of negative connotations associated with the alias under attack?

Sweet.

This is so fun.

I like playing the negative association game.

Attack more. Help me get better.

Change attack aliases in the same attack post. Help me get better.

Really get bat schizz schizzo with the attack aliases. :-)

Post more. Help us all get better.

Come out come out wherever you are? :-)

dynamitehawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Satirist! Bravo! jaybate - you are great. If we could direct to folks the $$ deducted from their paychecks for social security...and gauge an ounce of outrage for those of us forced to work until seventy with seventy percent benefits we might fill up Paige arena. Real F-ing fair democrats and republicans. Baby boomer pigs.

That's way more important than "chiefs" instead of "braves" but this embodies the issue we face: Men and women 50 - 60 years old enriching themselves at all cost of everything else. Happy layoffs folks. At least we can sing brave.

Alex Berger 8 years, 2 months ago

It's tradition, not necessarily a need. Respecting the country and showing gratitude for the sacrifices of those who have defended these rights that include going to a University and being able to watch basketball of the highest caliber. It's easy to take these freedoms for granted since most of us have had them our entire life but I for one enjoy having the reminder at the beginning of the game.

Mr_misanthropy 8 years, 2 months ago

Well if people can add "under god" to the pledge of allegiance, then adding home of the chiefs to the star spangled banner seems fine to me. Most of you people need to lighten up

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't like that the students do it, but I agree on the lighten up. Kids are irreverent. This thread is like two posts away from an elderly home in South Beach.

We're beating a dead horse here, and ignoring a more important topic in the one year anniversary of the loss of Thomas' mother.

Phoghorn 8 years, 2 months ago

Yes, I wish that KUsports.com had done a separate article about that. F.O.E.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 2 months ago

Maybe I'm out of place here but does anyone at LJW have some information on Texas and our upcoming game???

I know the preview is sometimes relegated to the morning before the game but if you guys are out of things to write about, maybe that would be a good topic to at least consider???

If nothing else, it will get us off this increasingly idiotic string!!

Phoghorn 8 years, 2 months ago

This increasingly E P I C idiotic string.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

I've got a couple ideas for other topics....

I hadn't really pondered the revenge aspect much brcause we beat UT in the Big XII tourney. Having thought anout it a bit; I don't pretend to know what TRob has been through, but losing his mother and the longest home win streak in school history could very well have made it the worst day of his life. Not to mention all the uncertainty with his sister. It'll be interesting to see how much emotion Thomas puts into this game.

Looking at UT, they have a ton of freshman some of them are supposed to develop well...it'll be interesting to see which ones we will despise in a couple years. (Knock on wood we're still in the same conference then) I believe Barnes has been recruiting more in Canada the last few years, which I find interesting. If there's some talent up there, maybe Bill should make a visit, ey?

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

Apologies for typos, I picked up one of those newfangled ipads and am still getting used to it.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, doesn't make a lot of sense for the Chiefs chant at Allen, but everybody does dumb stuff. For example:

Mr. LSU gets drunk enough to pass out in front of a ton of drunk Alabama people, and doesn't have enough friends to take him home or keep track of him. Dumb.

Guy teabags him with a camera rolling, posts it to youtube. Dumb, but epic.

The "sex crimes" super Feds and the state of Louisiana actually spend their time and our money chasing this "heinous" criminal before he can TEABAG AGAIN!!! The dumbest thing yet.

They are acting like they stopped the Dahmer of teabagging. "It took a lot of man hours boys, but the Teabag D-Bag is BEHIND BARS!" (loud cheers)

Seriously, Duke and UNC have been at this for years. You know what the fix is? Don't pass out with a bunch of drunk rivals around. Crazy I know.

/rant off

Illinoisjayhawk87 8 years, 2 months ago

First of all everyone, including Bill Self, settle the F down!!!! I've been a Chiefs fan as long as I've been a Jayhawk fan (24 years) and I've always said the national anthem ending with home of the Chiefs. It's just a thing, if you think I'm being anti-American or whatever you can... fill in the blank. Who cares if it's not KC, it's still a huge Chiefs town, I know I went to school there, and I love that our fans are doing it. If you're not a Chiefs fan then don't say it. Everyone on this board sounds like an old grumpy jerk off a Fox news board. Settle down people. Go Jayhawks and go Chiefs.

Illinoisjayhawk87 8 years, 2 months ago

Also... this is the 1st and last time I will ever disagree with Self. He is a KU legend and I am and always will be extremely proud of what he has and will do with our basketball team, no disrespect Self, I just disagree with you on this one topic.

Dan Cook 8 years, 2 months ago

OK, you're a Chiefs fan. So am I. But AFH isn't the home of the Chiefs, so let it go. You can get your fill of it when you're in Arrowhead. Besides, not all KU fans are Chiefs fans, so it's not like the two are interchangable.

MimiHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Coach Self has let everyone know he doesn't want "Chiefs" shouted at the end of the Anthem... I'm thinking we should not do it anymore, just because he asked. Heaven knows he's earned it.

And for the woooo... if you've never heard the Rock Chalk Chant without the wooo, then you have never really heard the Rock Chalk Chant. It is H A U N T I N G without the wooo. With the woooo.... no comparison at all.

When Teddy Rosevelt pronounced it the greatest college chant he'd ever heard... he was not talking about the woooo-chant version. 'just sayin'

AaronHawk19 8 years, 2 months ago

Maybe if he didn't lose to Oral Roberts, UMass, Bradley, Bucknell, Northern Iowa, VCU, Davidson, ect. I'd listen to him.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

Ok .. I've abstained all day on this topic .. but here's the trump card: Coach Self says so, so it must be right. The man is perfect.

Illinoisjayhawk87: This is the first time you have ever disagreed with coach Self. Ever. Nose firmly implanted. You should revert to your guiding principles. Self is perfection.

On the woo, I've never said "woo" my entire life. Ever. I have tried not to even think it. But shouldn't we ask Coach Self?

AaronHawk19 8 years, 2 months ago

Suck it Coach. You Oklahomans don't understand.

Dan Cook 8 years, 2 months ago

I am so glad Coach Self commented on this and encouraged it to stop. I don't know anyone that understands why it is done. Home of the Chiefs has been the only part of the AFH experience I haven't liked ever since it began. We're not the home of the Chiefs and we shouldn't mess with national anthem. I hope Coach's comments will be honored by our students that participate.

I wouldn't have an issue if they yelled Home of the Hawks, since that's what AFH is, but I certainly support not altering any of the words, too.

AaronHawk19 8 years, 2 months ago

You are retarded if you think the student section gives two &%#$ what coach thinks. This reminds me of when they tried to get rid of rip his f'ing head off. It will just make students do it louder. Oh and guess what, everywhere within 100 miles of KC is home of the CHIEFS!!!!!!

jhawk2003 8 years, 2 months ago

You should stop going to KU games. Wear your Montana jersey elsewhere.

AaronHawk19 8 years, 2 months ago

I have three degrees from KU, I will go to whatever game I want. And its a DJ jersey...

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

I have read your posts here and have concluded that you wasted yours or someone else's money on those three degrees.

Dan Cook 8 years, 2 months ago

Retarded? Thankfully it's your comment that settles the case as to which of us most closely resembles retarded. Also I'm thankful that you don't represent the majority of KU fans. One would think that with 3 degrees, you might have picked up something called inate intelligence, which would also afford you diplomacy. As it is, I would prefer you had gone to school elsewhere.

BalKUrog 8 years, 2 months ago

Rick Pittino's testament to AFH's daunting impact to visiting teams is awesome. I happened to be lucky enough to have season tickets and was at that game. The crowd noise and energy was amazing not only because it was a typical AFH afternoon game but it was KENTUCKY. Teams like that always bring out the best in our savvy fans and make me proud to be a Jayhawk!

kstrebor 8 years, 2 months ago

The whole "Woo", "Chiefs", and "Rip his friggin head off" things are an easy fix. If the person standing next to you does it, punch the piss out of them. Or better yet, rope off the students section and turn the German shepards loose on them. We are dealing with a generation of mouth breathers who got a gold star and a participation ribbon just for showing up. A bunch of unoriginal sheep following the herd. Time to take back the AFH and Memorial Stadium. Also time for HCBS to grab the mic before a game and give those idiots the business.

MimiHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I've always thought the fact they grew up eating sour candy instead of sweet has had a negative impact on them. Sweet, it's more than just an adjective.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

Grossly unfair, and surprisingly ignorant for someone of your age. I didn't graduate all that many years ago and I worked my butt off to get into a grad school. "This" generation didn't mess up the economy so bad that you have to get a PHD to even be competitive in the job market.

As for your "take back AFH and Memorial", it will be taken back... By the next generation of KU students, long after the chiefs and woo chants die. It doesn't go backwards. Student traditions evolve, and reminiscing about when you or I were students isn't going to change that.

Joe Joseph 8 years, 2 months ago

If the Chiefs were playing this weekend, or were a perennial contender, I guarantee that this debate would not have nearly the bite that it has.

Just sayin.

Geekinout 8 years, 2 months ago

Finally! So glad Coach Self said something... Morons don't even realize that they aren't only disrespecting America, but doing it with a terrible Missouri product thinking it's something cool!!! Also, retarded student body, there is no "wewh" at the end of the Rock Chalk chant.. Learn some tradition!

jhawk2003 8 years, 2 months ago

Wait, Allen Fieldhouse isn't home to a mediocre pro sports team from Missouri?

AaronHawk19 8 years, 2 months ago

So KU fans are not supposed to root for the KC sports teams now? Grow up loser. KC is a metro made up of Kansas and Missouri.

baldwinjhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Good luck telling students what they can't do.... I wish they would start singing the wheaties song again when players foul out. We always did in the 80's. I guess things come and go and I'm sure this will also.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

Apparently you and I are the only ones who remember what the student section was like haha

AaronHawk19 8 years, 2 months ago

And Gary, HOW ABOUT AN ARTICLE ABOUT KU-TEXAS instead of this BS the day before a game.

ChelseaJayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Its like Team America World Police on here isn't it. The "home" of the brave but also the "home" of 4 soilders who made the papers this week; also the home of Sarah Palin.

American nationalism reminds me of the North Koreans last month; blindly praising everything America does with a total vail of ignorance as to the nature of the outside world. You treat America like a god that shouldn't be sinned against, and you make it more important than people.

"I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth, and I am a citizen of the world."

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 2 months ago

Perhaps you should try living in North Korea before you start making comparisons.

MimiHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

ChelseaHawk neglected to mention in the above comment that he/she is not a US citizen, instead a British subject, living in London. That puts an entirely different light on their comments. Yes, we Americans do love our country, our freedoms, and our national anthem.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

ChelseaJayhawk: A wayward soul that has lost sight, or has never truly appreciated, what we have in America. America is the greatest nation on face of the earth. If you doubt that, please provide me an argument to the contrary. I can assure you, that when comes to debate points, you'd be sadly deficient.

The fact is, the world would live under tyranny but for the United States of America. In fact, it did live under tyranny until the United States of America. Then, freedom the world had never seen. The blueprint for liberty.

Folks like you, I'm sure, live to criticize this country. Live to hate this country. Yet live under the blanket for freedom this country provides. And what further, folks like you always .. always .. create strawman arguments to attempt to prove your point ("blindly praising"). And as with most liberals, you always .. always .. claim some sort of added insight by suggesting that those that don't share you view of the world are ignorant. It makes you feel better to think that others just aren't as well informed. But deep down, you are takers. Takers of the opportunities provided, devoid of any true contribution.

You are pathetic even mentioning soldiers .. you're the kind of person that truly disdains the soldier; claims he is ignorant; can't imagine why someone would even sign up, let alone put his/her life at risk. You wouldn't do the same. You're a taker. See, most of the soldiers you reference wouldn't be caught in the same proximity as you. And it is those soldiers who fight for their country. Not blindly. Nor ignorantly. But because they love this country and what it stands for more than their own life.

I find it utterly curious why you do not relocate from this horrific place to that utopia you apparently desire. I'm waiting for you to find it, Mr. Citizen of the World.

See, America isn't "more important than people." America IS the people. Always has been. Not perfect. Not without its difficulties. But all said, the greatest nation this world has ever seen. Perhaps at some point in your life you will understand that. If you don't, please continue to take what is given you without hesitation, without conscience, and without obligation. It's what you would do anyway.

ChelseaJayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Maybe I should have said more. I love America, but I am not summing it up, I am saying to sum it up under one flag is ridiculous. I don’t sing the national anthem, not because I don’t love my country but because it has very little to do with who I am as a person, and nor does it separate me from being akin to other people in the world.

I agree on most parts it is the best place on earth to live; except for the health care (unless you’re rich then it’s probably great.) NO I am not a liberal, and if you had to defend America like I do in debates you would be destroyed. And no I don’t want to live in fascist North Korea, anywhere in the Middle East or Russia which (like the US) also seems to be a breeding ground for national pride; not that each of those country’ s isn’t full of lovely agreeable people. Usually when a people go on about their national identity so much, there is usually some ignorance at play, maybe because no country is really that perfect, or really that separate from the rest of the worlds help.

The US is the only country where 1 in 3 houses has a flag of its own country, at every game you sing the national anthem; every shirt and every helmet has a flag. In fact anything that has space has had a flag shoved on it and what does it all really mean? You have made it so sacred that to sing the national anthem with a changed word is like blasphemy, taking offence from a harmless piece of fun. But you wouldn’t know this, because you have pledged allegiance to the flag, maybe you would stand by its every move no matter what harm it caused, no matter how little worshiping the flag everyday did to improve your life.

Watch an English soccer game, they don’t have flags on their shirts, they don’t sing the national anthem, in fact you will see that the teams are multi-cultural, and on the most part people see that their lives are better having embraced other cultures. The type of people who wave flags in England are usually those who haven’t stepped a foot outside of their own country. I only sing my national anthem when my country plays, because it’s supporting my team; something that’s far more important to my life than going on about America’s greatness every day. My country does not sum me up as a person, but my love for the world, the value of life and the sports that it plays says a little something.

I am not taking anything away from American life, or how blessed many of its freedoms are. I am saying nationalism is not a virtue, and I am saddened to see it take over so much of people’s lives.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

I appreciate the reply. Nationalism -- as you appear to use the term, is a virtue, my friend, when it is a good thing. This is not Nazi Germany. And I do think you (respectfully) miss the point.

As I mentioned, the perfection you appear to seek is an impossibility. You mentioned "perfect" again. No one says that. Ignorance is always in play, because no one knows everything. But we generally know enough about the world to proclaim this the greatest nation on the face of the planet. I challenge you to come up with another. And remember, you must consider where this world would be without the USA. And where it would quickly go without us. And with that, you can see that any other suggestion would be fruitless.

You should not be saddened that most .. probably a great majority .. define themselves in large part as Americans. They say it with pride. Your reference to other countries and how they do things really makes my point.

We are not like other countries. That's what makes us great. We are truly the only melting pot of the world, and the patriotic bond crosses race and religion. No other country has that. Others have tried and miserably failed. Our country and what it stands for is something all Americans .. of every race .. have in common.

And look at the stat you cite .. 1 out of 3 homes has a flag. Just 1 out of 3? But you cite this purported stat as some negative. People like you are offended by the flag; people like you are offended when they see a Nativity scene; people like you are truly the intolerant one, masking themselves as a tolerant. Always vigilant that you might be offended.

Your reference to debates .. look, been there, done that. Perhaps your debate skills aren't that sharp.

Have you ever wondered why Iraq, for example, could not unite as a country .. the Sunnis and the Shiites and the Kurds? They literally have to act and live separately. But we can -- Jew, Christian, Muslim, White, Black, Asian, you name it. We have made it work. You refer to teams being multi-cultural. America is the original.

And the uniting factor, more than anything, is love of this country. I had a wonderful conversation with a Mexican roofer -- hard working, loves this country and the opportunity it provides. He is truly thankful because he lived the other side.

See, your country is your family. The world is not your family. Like family, when push comes to shove, your country will always be there for you even if you stray from the nest.

Embrace the national anthem. Don't sing if choose not to. And don't mistake comparing a pledge of allegiance with worship .. a strawman argument. Folks worship their God. We are loyal and love our country.

Perhaps what you can do, at the minimum, is respect those that love this country and want to show it; be tolerant of the flags and the national anthem; be reverent of those that have put this country where it is today; and open your mind to the greatness that is the USA.

ChelseaJayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

i posted you a reply on your page, thank you

FL_Jhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I am an old timer - attended KU from 73 - 78 and used to sit in the bleachers behind the team. I always liked the tradition and class that KU had. Not properly singing the the national anthem is anti-traditional and anti-class, IMHO. If our anthem offends you, then go on and stay seated and text your frends or whatever. Changing the words is nothing more than class-less.

As for the wooing, it might be fun, but if they stopped doing it for one game, they might be blown away by the errieness of the silence. I just wish they would shut up and give it a try. As is, it is rather silly and certainly not a classy or traditionalist way to do things.

Things change (I have only recently gotten used to the knee-length shorts and wonder when they will go back up, as shorter shorts simply have to be more efficient), but when you youngens are approaching 60 and you are watching a KU BB game in 2052, you will surely appreciate hearing the same old chant, same old Wheaties song, same Go, Fight, Win Jayhawks, etc., and won't cotton to things that have changed too much! Just hope, for you guys, AFH is still being used!

Andrew Washington 8 years, 2 months ago

Would we replace Allen Fieldhouse with a fancy new arena like Louisville did with the KFC Yum center? Hopefully we can keep it in good shape and just renovate it when we need to. It would be strange to see the Jayhawks to play anywhere else.

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 2 months ago

OK. It made the national news now, and it sure makes the fans that use the "chief" word look like the morons that they actually are, http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/45384/bill-self-says-no-to-home-of-the-chiefs

blowhard 8 years, 2 months ago

National Anthem...respect and treasure the opportunity to enjoy the song so many are denied Worldwide. Don't embarrass oneself mentioning some weak pro football franchise that hasn't won a Super Bowl since long ago in January 1970. The National Anthem is an honor and a tribute to our Nation...the greatest Nation in the history of the World.

Gary Bedore 8 years, 2 months ago

What it does boil down to is this. ...

The students' very popular coach has a simple request -- for the students to cease and desist singing, "Home of the Chiefs." Will the students respond by doing him a simple favor and stop singing, "Home of the Chiefs?" You'd think the answer would be "yes" considering the coach is popular and the coach's team is popular. But will the answer be yes?

danmoore 8 years, 2 months ago

Students did not comply with Mangino's request, at least not in whole.

I find it embarrassing, not because it might be interpreted as being disrespectful but because it is so childish. Grade school students could come up with something cleverer. Hope this does not become another story in the national sports media like the kickoff chant.

addlime 8 years, 2 months ago

"Home of the Chiefs"... totally lame. The Chiefs suck, and have sucked for a long time, not remotely in the same class of tradition as the Jayhawks. Love the Jayhawks, don't give a $#%! about the Chiefs. Insult to the Jayhawks to carry that tradition to a different city, in a different state, and think it applies. Self is correct!

"Woo"... also totally lame. Takes away from the haunting, empty feeling that the opponents should feel and take away from the game. Without the woo, the chant could give the impression that forces greater than those we understand played a part in the opponents defeat. Never say it, totally ignore it. But if the kids like it, whatever.

Am I the only one that sees the Pitino comment, and immediately thinks, "Why does he have to be classless and make excuses for that loss"? Wasn't it his own fault for cursing at Williams when he tried to put in all the subs? So Williams put the starters back in and KU won by 55. At least that's how I remember it. Then the jackass has to talk about walk-ons and make excuses. Sorry buddy, we tried to cut your classless butt a break, but your big mouth blew it.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 2 months ago

This is the last I'm posting on this thread... I was talking with a buddy of mine last night, a Mizzou grad, who has a younger brother still enrolled. Apparently Mizzou also does the "home of the chiefs" (Not home of the Rams?) during the anthem. If that isn't an indicator that we need a change, I don't know what is.

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

I thought about the issue of the students reputedly altering the words of the Nathional Anthem quite some time.

First, I don't like what the students are doing with the national anthem.

Second, the singing of the national anthem appears to me to be an act of political speech.

Third, it appears to me the First Amendment, whatever else it may apply to, most certainly applies to political speech.

Fourth, IMHO the First Amendment makes it any citizen's right to say what they want in politically oriented speech, and protects them from being prevented from doing so by a government, or government agency, firm, or group, or individual.

Fifth, I cannot imagine any law consistent with the First Amendment of the Constitution granting a government, government agency, firm, group or individual the right to over ride the rights and protections afforded by the First Amendment of the Constitution in this instance.

Therefore: while I prefer that the students not alter the National Anthem in the fashion they reputedly have, it appears to me they have the constitutional right to do it, and others lack the constitutional right to stop them from doing it.

It further appears to me that anyone that would try to stop them from singing the National Anthem the way these students reputedly have been doing would probably be violating these students' Constitutional rights and I infer would incur some legal liability for having done so.

But I am neither a constitutional scholar, nor a first amendment lawyer, just a layman and a citizen opining.

Dan Cook 8 years, 2 months ago

@@ Really? Constitutional violation? You don't think it might be nothing more than a simple request to stop doing something so blatantly ridiculous?

Lance Hobson 8 years, 2 months ago

What is the matter with these idiot students? First of all, no one should change the words to the National Anthem, especially with a tacky insertion of your team. Second of all, KU is not the Chiefs and really not anywhere close to being the Chiefs.

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