Wednesday, February 29, 2012

Self: Big 12 championship just the first step


It’s probably fitting Kansas University’s basketball team wrapped up — and celebrated — the program’s eighth-straight Big 12 regular-season championship late Monday night at Oklahoma State.

According to ninth-year coach Bill Self ... it’s the Jayhawks’ performance on the road that’s annually separated his squad from the rest of the pack.

“Winning at home is great. You always want to win at home. We have an advantage to winning at home because we have great players, an unbelievable building and fan support,” said Self. His Jayhawks have compiled a 68-4 Big 12 record at home in the Self-era entering Saturday’s 8 p.m., regular-season finale versus Texas.

“Somebody told me today we’re 53-20 on the road in league play — 53-20 is pretty amazing,” added Self, whose Jayhawks actually are 54-19 on the road. “We went 7-2 on the road this year. For this team to go 7-2 on the road is pretty cool. It’s pretty special. The two games we lost (Iowa State and Missouri) ... we could have won either one of them.

“In the national championship year, the best we could do is 5-3. To win away from home like that is a tribute to how far these guys have come.”

Self made sure the Jayhawks did not take this eighth-straight title lightly following Monday’s 70-58 win at his alma mater, OSU.

He had the players place the league championship trophy on the floor of the locker room after accepting it from Big 12 associate commissioner John Underwood and had the Jayhawks do a bit of dancing around the hardware.

Self took part in the dancing.

“It was great. We were all dancing. I’ve done it four times now,” said red-shirt junior center Jeff Withey. “It’s always the same, a great feeling,” he added. “It’s really fun to be able to do that.”

The Big 12 coaches picked KU and Texas A&M; as co-favorites to win the league. Others were more skeptical, figuring KU was in for a down year by the Jayhawks’ standards.

“How did we do it? We worked hard,” Withey said. “We have great coaches. People said this would be our off year, but we all took it to heart and worked hard. When you have the player of the year on your team, it definitely helps,” Withey added of Thomas Robinson.

Self was asked on his Hawk Talk radio show why he puts more emphasis on winning the league than other Big 12 coaches.

“I don’t think that’s an accurate statement. Every coach puts emphasis on winning the league because that’s who you compete against. If you are able to win the Big 12, you have a chance to be pretty good nationally,” Self said.

“Bragging rights means a lot to everybody,” Self added, while noting, “the postseason (NCAAs) trumps it. We are happy where our season is, but we shouldn’t be patting anybody on the back now. We did what we wanted to do. It’s the first stage. Hopefully there are bigger and better things out there for us. We can’t relax. It’s been a good year. Now you’ve got to make it a great year. The only way to do that is play well in the postseason.”

The seniors will start again: Self said starting guard Tyshawn Taylor would be joined by fellow senior reserves Conner Teahan and Jordan Juenemann in Saturday’s starting lineup versus Texas.

“The three seniors will start. We always do that,” Self said. “Jordan walked on, has been with us four years and has done a really good job. Conner has been with us about as long as (Brady) Morningstar it seems,” Self cracked of the fifth-year senior. “I’m proud of Conner. Boy did he come up big against Missouri (four threes). Of course Tyshawn ... I don’t know if I’ve been around many who have come as far as he has in so many ways.”

Self said junior Thomas Robinson would not give a speech after the game, but could be recognized in some way. Though no official announcement has been made, it’s a given he will be turning pro after the season.

“People have asked me about Thomas (on Senior Night). As much as I care for him and stuff, we do have a history and tradition. This is Senior Night, not Junior Night,” Self said on his radio show.

“I do think our fans would certainly pay a tribute to him. I’m sure we’ll be able to make that happen in some form or fashion for a guy who has given us so many thrills.”

Withey’s ankle OK: Seven-footer Withey, who sprained his left ankle early in Saturday’s victory over Missouri, scored six points and grabbed two rebounds in 16 foul-plagued minutes Monday at OSU.

“It felt good to be out there,” Withey said. “I’ve had a lot of treatment since the Missouri game. It’s still a little hard to cut. It’ll get a lot better. We have awhile before our next game. It’ll be fine.”

On Traylor, McLemore: KU senior Taylor commented on ineligible freshmen Ben McLemore and Jamari Traylor, who have practiced, but not played in games this semester.

“He’s for sure a pro,” Taylor said of the 6-5 McLemore Tuesday on SiriusXM’s Inside College Basketball show. “He’s young, is long and is the best athlete in terms of getting off the floor.”

Of the 6-7 Traylor, Taylor said: “He’s like a 6-foot-7 T-Rob. He’s strong, real athletic and is a beast from Chicago. He plays hard every possession.”

No game against NU: The Omaha World-Herald says KU and Nebraska have talked about starting a series beginning next season. The paper said, “it would always be a road game for NU, but some games would be played at the Sprint Center in Kansas City.”

“We never talked about anything but one game,” said KU schedule maker, Larry Keating. “It was so preliminary we didn’t even discuss it here. We talked a while back. Nothing is going to happen this year.”


kerbyd 9 years, 3 months ago

<p> has a great article on Kansas, ridiculous Big 12 titles runs.

Mike Barnhart 9 years, 3 months ago

I like goose as much as the next guy but I'm tired of chasing this one. Next time you post a link to a "great" article, link the actual article, not just the site.

Brianna Zaleski 9 years, 3 months ago

Look back at yesterdays main article, on this site. The one about 8 straight, a couple of our posters linked the actual article. And make sure to read the response thread at the end, there's a lot of love given to the jayhawks by other, non-biased fans.

baldwinjhawk 9 years, 3 months ago

ABSURD! That's what the article say about our titles... love it!

LAJayhawk 9 years, 3 months ago

It is an excellent piece. Not quite to the level of Posnanski's in the Star on Sunday following the mizzou game, but, then again, Posnanski's is like Pulitzer worthy, it's that good.

Here it is (Posnanski's piece) if anyone hasn't read it yet. Easily one of the best I've read in a long, long time.

9 years, 3 months ago

It’s tough to find a better sports writer than Joe Posnanski. I used to really enjoy reading his work when he was a regular at the KC Star.

Jesse Johnson 9 years, 3 months ago

Did anybody see this article from SI?:

Wow! What a sharp contrast from the espn article on Kansas. I am sooooo glad that we have Bill Self. We've had our own hiccups with player discipline in the last few years but I think HCBS has done an excellent job of handling them.

gardenjay 9 years, 3 months ago

Wow, Larry Keating sounds like the unavailable popular girl the week before the prom. Sorry Nebraska.

actorman 9 years, 3 months ago

LOL. Why on earth would KU want to do that? We might as well schedule North Dakota State. It wouldn't help our schedule strength one bit to schedule an annual pounding of the Cornies.

AirCapJay 9 years, 3 months ago

Start a new series with Wichita State. It would be big in the state of Kansas.

prusso25 9 years, 3 months ago

Great coach, great team, great 8 years of big 12 domination.

If Ben and Jamari are as good as Tyshawn claims, we might as well clear up some room on the shelf or a 9th big 12 trophy.

Gotta love being a Kansas fan.

SaltLakeHawk 9 years, 3 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

SaltLakeHawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Jayb8, I'm glad you got to see my comment. I knew it was only a matter of time before they'd take it down :)

Mike Kendall 9 years, 3 months ago


I didn't get to see it--give me the PG version please.

SaltLakeHawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Nothing special, I was just being a dork. Playing around with words like

jayhawk F8 Celebr8 8STR8 M@ T8 Jayb8


...D8[insert word for what happens in prison]

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 3 months ago

Would it be interesting to have something like a 4 team tourney in KC every year with CU, UNL and MU, sure, is it worth it, beats me

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

Let them have a four team tournament somewhere, doesn't have to be in KC, they could rotate it around. MU, Nebraska, Colorado, & aTm. The deserters tournament.

oldrocker 9 years, 3 months ago

Just want to tell all of you regular posters "Thanks" almost always make me chuckle. I think most days I enjoy reading the comments more than the articles!

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

I am humbled by your praise. I too enjoy reading the comments more than the articles. It's great that we have this venue.

Rock Chalk

Mike Kendall 9 years, 3 months ago

It's great we have posters like icthawkfan316. He is in my Top 10 of favorite posters to follow. Maybe some day, I will list my Top 10.

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

Call it "The Losers Tournament."

CU vs. NU


Play it in some juco gym.

actorman 9 years, 3 months ago

Maybe call it the "moneyball" tournament.

Dan Harris 9 years, 3 months ago

mizzu could claim it finally made it to a final 4

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

If I'm not mistaken the picks of KU & aTm as preseason co-favorites to win the league was before Traylor & BMac were declared ineligible, and before Billy Kennedy was diagnosed with Parkinson's, as well as some other setbacks that team has dealt with. I wonder who the pick would have been with all the relevant information at the time...probably Baylor would be my guess.

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

Regarding TRob, I agree with Self. It's Senior Night. We went through this same thing with Aldrich when Sherron was a senior.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 3 months ago

If Paul Pierce wasn't allowed to junior should be allowed. {Actually, I think Paul was the first Jayhawk to leave for the pros early, if I am not mistaken.]

9 years, 3 months ago

Wilt Chamberlain left after his junior season to play professionally for the Harlem Globetrotters :^)

actorman 9 years, 3 months ago

Victor Mitchell left in 1981. Who, you ask? Let's put it this way: his nickname was "Chocolate Blunder," and he went undrafted. Not one of the brightest decisions in NCAA history ...

actorman 9 years, 3 months ago

Actually, technically you may be right, Oakville, since Mitchell obviously didn't leave for the pros ...

BainDread 9 years, 3 months ago

Norm Cook left for the NBA (Celtics) in 1976 after his Junior year

lincase 9 years, 3 months ago

I agree. I love TRob, but he is not a senior. Making one exception means that you have to make value judgments every time this comes up, and it isn't fair to anyone.

stm62 9 years, 3 months ago

I see where yahoo sports writer Pat Forde thinks that Anthony Davis should get player of the year honors. He then went out of his way to mention Thomas Robinsons controversial no-call at the end of the Missouri game. I became suspicious so I looked up Fordes bio.. Sure enough, he is a Missouri grad.

jhox 9 years, 3 months ago

That figures. Anthony Davis will be the first player taken in the NBA draft, but that doesn't mean he should be player of the year. His numbers are comparable to TRob's and he has a more talented supporting cast, meaning he doesn't get the defensive attention that TRob gets. Why a bunch of writers would want to reward a one and done freshman over a guy who paid his dues and by his junior year has developed into the best player in the country is beyond me. Besides, TRob's numbers in the big games are far better than Davis' big game numbers.

Let's also not forget that Davis isn't even an amateur (recall the Chicago Sun Times article of last summer and the allegations of a $200,000 pay day.) Davis' Dad and Kentucky threatened to sue, but I've yet to see a law suit. Wonder why? Could it be because the allegations were true? The Sun Times refused to retract the allegations, so that should tell you something.

Come on writers, do the right thing for once and give it to a guy who has worked hard and earned the honor. Let the NBA guys reward Davis for his great year with more riches.

JayHok 9 years, 3 months ago

After Chicago Sun writer wrote the piece Kentucky threatened lawsuit. The writer didn't remove the story and stood by his sources. The next day he had a follow up article with more sources including two or three college coaches who said Davis dad was asking for financial assistance.

Curious if the NCAA looked into this or are they waiting to release dramatic headlines like they did to Kentucky last year about this time.

actorman 9 years, 3 months ago

The NCAA is just following tradition and waiting until UK makes the Final Four so Calipari can go 3-for-3 in having his Final Fours vacated.

Andrew Bary 9 years, 3 months ago

Yeah, and funny he didn't mention the 2 points that weren't counted because of a bogus charge call on a spin-move-defensive dive in Columbia. What a tool.

Gary McCullough 9 years, 3 months ago

Kentucky hasn't played against the talent that KU has on it's schedule. KU has the #3 ranked schedule, according to Sagarine rankings, UK has the #59 ranked schedule. The SEC is ranked fourth nationally, while the Big XII is ranked second. TRob has played against better competition and still averages more points (3.5 more than Davis) and rebounds (2 more than Davis), and has more double-double games.

dw3c 9 years, 3 months ago

Jason King actually changed his tune. Had been on the Anthony Davis bandwagon for the last month or so and after watching the game Saturday his pick for POY is now TRob.

Kent Richardson 9 years, 3 months ago

T-Rob has exceeded all expectations and moved up in many writers eyes throughout the year. Sullenger has not lived up to his preseason and early season rankings. None of the ACC dudes like Zeller have stood out. This would be a perfect year for a freshman or even sophmore. However it would have to be a Durant or Big O type of talent and Davis isn't that impressive.

JayHok 9 years, 3 months ago

How about the extra 10 points Mizzou scored with Robinson and Withey on the bench at the end of the first half. Forde, why do you think they were on the bench.

That's a much bigger point swing than what he's talking about. Self goes in with a lead at halftime without the phantom calls but he's too classy to mention it. Wonder if Self would have said something whiny at the end of the game like Haith did if the national press might at least mention what got Kansas in the 12 point hole to begin with.

JayHawkFanToo 9 years, 3 months ago

Pat Forde has always been a MU homer. A few years ago there was an article about the best College BBall venues and of all the voters, Pat Forde was the only one that did not have AFH in the top five. Even for MU grad, that is pretty stupid.

kerbyd 9 years, 3 months ago

Nuleaf and tis4tim were talking the other day about the movie "Trains, Planes and Automobiles", in a football article. It got me to thinking about the one of the few things I did not like about that movie was the way they talked about Wichita and how ugly it was. It turned out that Wichita was not ugly enough to actually film in so they picked another site to do the shooting. Guess where they chose. Thats right. Columbia, MO!!!!

Mike Barnhart 9 years, 3 months ago

That's awesome..."where's your other hand?"

9 years, 3 months ago

“Guess where they chose. Thats right. Columbia, MO!!!!”

Awesome if this is true! I hear some people say that Columbia is just like Lawrence. I somehow doubt it.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 3 months ago

Subtract the meth labs, puppy farms, toothless people, slums and add some grass, trees, fresh air and winning attitude, then, yeah, Columbia begins to resemble Lawrence a little...still very little, actually.

Kent Richardson 9 years, 3 months ago

Columbia was cool in the 60's and 70's but has become so provencial and they roll up the streets at 10 PM. Lawrence is much more interesting and the talent is greater by a factor of two.

Chad Dexter 9 years, 3 months ago

While that sounds good, I don't think it's true. Not according to this, anyway.

april28 9 years, 3 months ago

A little shocked to hear we'd even consider playing Nebraska. As an alum, donor and fan - I have no interest in ever seeing the cornheads on the same floor or field with the mighty Jayhawks. Ditto for the other three loser-schools.

LSHawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Totally agree, why would we want to reward the schools who put our conference in turmoil?? They choose to leave so goooooo and have a ball getting spanked in your new conferences!!

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

Agreed. But Sadler and Self have always seemed somewhat loyal Okie Ballers. It might have been some act of professional curtesy to a coach Self liked that did not pencil out financially for one school, or the other.

9 years, 3 months ago

This is a lose/lose proposition for us. If we beat them, it's because we should have. If we lose to them, it gives us a bad loss for the season.

bradh 9 years, 3 months ago

It sounded to me like the games would be played in Lawrence, not home and away. If you can treat a BCS school like a Division II school and really show how little regard you have for them, why not? If it was home and away I'd say no way, if it is one game in Lawrence, I wouldn't be thrilled, but wouldn't complain either.

bad_dog 9 years, 3 months ago

Yeah, you should have heard Nikki Wright on 610 yesterday afternoon whining about how hypocritical it was for KU to play NU after they left the league & ignore MU. He said NU was essentially solely responsible for initiating the instability in the league. He went on to say if KU is just sticking it to MU by refusing to play them after this year, then admit it-own it. Otherwise we're sleeping with ex-wife #1 & ignoring ex-wife #2.

I almost called in to the show to say a) why don't you verify the accuracy of the Omaha article with someone at KU before going off about how the 2 schools were in negotiations for an ongoing series, b) Mizzery was right behind NU in wanting to check out of the league to go to the Big 10 during the first go round, c) Mizzery was busy telling all the other league members they were satisfied with the stability in the league in 2011 right before confirmation leaked out about their move to the SEC and d) the discussion w/NU, if any, occurred last summer prior to Mizzery's announcement they were leaving. If there's spite toward MU, they've earned it; both over time and currently.

Oh and though I don't speak for KU, e) bad_dog says stick it to MU; right where it hurts the most.

hawkinNE 9 years, 3 months ago

Correction on "b" mizzery was pleading with the big 10 to let them in. Thats when the big 10 decided if they were going to add a team it would be a better team than mizzery.

JayHok 9 years, 3 months ago

Mizzou wasn't right behind NU. Mizzou started this entire thing by going public with a desire to go to the Big 10. Then MU left after the Tier 1 and Tier 2 was resolved. NU left when it looked like Tier 1 and Tier 2 wouldn't get resolved. The big 12 is every bit as stable as these other leagues now.

I'm laughing more and more each day at how poorly Mizzou played their cards and it doesn't surprise me their meth chomping fans with half a brain are upset about going to the SEC. They didn't know they'd lose the KC market and Jayhawk games too. They thought it was just a threat.

bad_dog 9 years, 3 months ago

I thought MU's open courtship of the Big 10 may have preceeded NU's exit, but couldn't remember the exact chronology. I preferred to understate my case rather than take the time to research what is essentially moot at this point.

The attention ho at 610 just really irritated me with his big "teasers" before commercial breaks (guess what former conference opponent KU is now agreeing to play in contradiction to their position regarding MU?), then again at the top of the hour, only to "break" what now appears to be a non-story. He's kind of like the Calamity Katie Horner of radio sports talk.

He should do a retraction, but I doubt it. He'll find some way to rationalize it or just blame the Omaha source.

Thanks though for the assist!

JayHawkFanToo 9 years, 3 months ago

bad_dog, MU started the ball rolling by openly courting the Big 10. The governor and the Chancellor went public indicating their desire to join a league (Big 10) with "higher" academic standing, only to be publicly humiliated when the Big 10 chose to invite Nebraska, indicating that it had never considered MU. The MU chancellor the played an important part in keeping the Big 12 together, only to bail out when the league stabilized. I guess someone must have reminded the Chancellor that MU would never win a league title...I guess he followed the adage:

"If at first you don't succeed, try again...until you realize the effort is futile and then move to a different conference"

The funny part is that after all the talk about "higher" academic standards, MU moved to the SEC, a league with a considerable lower standing.

bad_dog 9 years, 3 months ago

ralster, that reminds me of the old commercial with Jerry Jones and Neon Deon. Jones asks "So what do you want 10 million or 20 million?" Deon replies, "Both, Boss."

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

BenMac probably won't jump in and overwhelm everyone, but he must be a major talent. KU players don't often refer to unproven teammates as future pros.

If BenMac has been learning Self Defense, and can take on air and shoot near his reputation, by February of next season, he could be a very dangerous weapon to go with the returning arsenal and the incoming arms traffic.

Everything depends on chemistry, and how soon the lights go on, but a major, though probably not perfect storm because of youth, seems brewing next season.

Oh, what the heck! Great coaches always put together a few exceptional seasons with green wood.

Go, Bill, go!

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

P.S.: Has anyone been noticing the shoulders on Jamari? This guy and TRob both seem to require special doorways.

Martin Rosenblum 9 years, 3 months ago

Are you saying he's a double-wide Traylor?

Tony Bandle 9 years, 3 months ago

I am currently wiping off the coffee I sprayed on my computor screen :)

Dyrk Dugan 9 years, 3 months ago

i am convinced, that the Omaha World Herald article was all an NU leak. There is no way in the world, that we would schedule a series with flippin way. if we won't schedule MU, (and i agree with that BTW), we are NOT scheduling Nebraska.

Mens bball is getting their tail kicked in the Big 10...and now they dream of some guaranteed money. These schools are BEGGING for the chance to play Kansas in's the only way the dollar signs will register.

i bet their revenues from gate receipts for mens bball is significantly down from their Big 12 days. it has to be.

all of these schools will regret leaving their natural, and long time rivals. I just figured it would take a few years....but with the shuckers' case, it was only a few months!......LOL

Tony Bandle 9 years, 3 months ago

You know...I kind of miss pounding their asses twice a year. "AAHH, memories!!!" -Beldar Conehead

justinryman 9 years, 3 months ago

Did anyone see the full page add on the back of the sports page by NU booster Neil Hawks about how it is a commitment problem from NU and not Sadler. That was in Saturday's OWH, they went out that night and scored 34 points, the next night the women's team put up 39 in the 1st half.

It's a sad sad day for NU basketball, they even got a new practice gym and will have a new arena for the start of the 2013 season.

Too bad it will be filled with loses.

actorman 9 years, 3 months ago

"It's a sad sad day for NU basketball, ..."

As opposed to the many joyous days they've had?

actorman 9 years, 3 months ago

As I recall, they still have never won an NCAA tournament game. And in fact, I believe they've only made the tournament something like six times. Does anyone know if that's correct? (I would look it up but it's not worth the effort.)

NoteToSelf 9 years, 3 months ago

Great news after the OSU game is that is the last true road game on the schedule.... Texas at home, the Big 12 Tourney in KC (home away from home) and the NCAA Tourney. I like our chances going forward.

Assuming KU doesn't get any more recruits for next year (I don't think Shabazz is coming) what will the starting lineup look like???

  1. Elijah
  2. Ben Mac
  3. Travis
  4. Perry
  5. Withey

jhox 9 years, 3 months ago

I've been watching clips of Parker. The guy has "Bill Self Big Man" written all over him. The guy is a physical hoss. He would be crazy to go anywhere else.

SchultzHawk11 9 years, 3 months ago

I don't think Shabazz is either but it think we still have more to come. Jakarr Sampson looks as if he may and Tony Parker is ready to make his decision and KU is among the top. Shabazz though according to Rivals now how Kansas among UNLV, UCLA, Kentucky, and Duke as a High interest and he didnt have Kansas with them before his visit.

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

UCLA has the top 2012 point guard, Kyle Anderson, coming in next year, which would seem a great insentive for Shabazz to follow.

However, UCLA is in turmoil, according to a report on (their NCAA BBall page). Ben Howland, UCLA's coach, is in very hot water over a story which Sports Illustrated has researched with past and present UCLA players. Howland has turned a blind eye, letting players run his program ( wild parties, marijuana, ecstasy, Etc.), and allowing confrontations to turn dangerous between players during his practices.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Shabazz decided to drop them from his list. And K. Anderson could decide to switch elsewhere, if Howland can't right the ship and overcome what could bring about a coaching change.

Vernon Riggs 9 years, 3 months ago

Who goes if Parker or Sampson comes? Right now we are good if TRob goes NBA and Wesley moves back to walk-on status. Rio? Merv?

Joe Baker 9 years, 3 months ago

Shabaaz depends on Howland's status. If Howland stays, he goes to UCLA. Rumor is if Howland is gone, Shabaaz will go to KU.

Howland's future at UCLA is being addressed and it doesn't look good either.

Vernon Riggs 9 years, 3 months ago

I think Shabazz goes to One-and-Done U (uk).

JayHawkFanToo 9 years, 3 months ago

I just don't see a top player going to UCLA after reading the following article:

Looks like toxic environment for any player with NBA aspirations, and the PAC 12 absolutely sucks.

Chris1955 9 years, 3 months ago

I think that Shabazz might be coming to KU. Think about it....Has any NBA player ever experienced anything like the crowd atmosphere during the KU/MU game while playing in an NBA game as a pro?

I seriously doubt it. Wouldnt you want to give it a try before you go to the NBA? No way Duke/UNC tops this!

okiedave 9 years, 3 months ago

I favor of playing Nebraska, Missouri and Colorado. I like the idea of dominating our region and demonstrating to the PAC 10, Big 10 and SEC that they received no prizes. The fact that Nebraska wants a series with Kansas shows that they now recognize there was something special about a NU - KU matchup and they miss it. The NU student body is obviously not into traveling to Michigan, Ohio and Indiana to watch NU lose. NU needs KU to put some vitality back into the NU basketball program.

Chris1955 9 years, 3 months ago

Why play NU instead of MU? Jaybate mentioned the Doc Sadler/Bill Self Okieballer angle. Perhaps. I'm prefering to view it from another lens.

What if during the last version of conference realignment, KU applied to the B1G Ten. What if they got a somewhat receptive ear from the B1G Ten? What if they were told. "Gee, we really like KU's academic research and development profile and midwestern cultural fits with our conference. However, you've got to fix your football program before we would even consider it". So Zenger goes all out to hire the best football coach he can possibly get his hands on, someone who is looking for a shot at redemption. Someone who will be able to recruit a better coaching staff that KU could reasonably expect to grab. He lands Charlie Weis, and a plethora of NFL coaching talent. The strategy is to appeal to potential college FB players who have professional asparations.

If you're searching for B1G TEN support for a future KU move to the B1G TEN, you accomodate NU, in exchange for a quid pro quo agreement. NU agrees to support KU's admission to the B1G TEN. NU gets enhanced BB revenue, courtesy of KU.

Far fetched? Perhaps. Possible? Definitely.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 3 months ago

The 2011-2012 Jayhawks: The Movie;

1] Bill Self - Keifer Sutherland 1A] Cindy Self - Reese Witherspoon 2] Joe Dooley - Steve Buscemi 3] Curtis Townsend - Cheech Marin 4] Danny Manning - Michael Clarke Duncan [The Green Mile] 5] Tyshawn Taylor - Eddie Murphy 6] Thomas Robinson - Quinton Aaron [The Blindside] 7] Jeff Withey - David Morse [Contact]] 8] Elijah Johnson - Ernie Hudson [Ghostbusters] 9] Travis Releford - Chris Rock 10] Connor Teahan - Zach Effron 11] Naadir Tharpe - Spike Lee 12] Kevin Young - Sasha Cohen [with lots of make-up] 13] Justin Wesley - Keith Langford 14] Jordan Juenemann - Edward Norton [Fight Club] 15] Ben McLemore & Jamari Traylor - [to be cast at a later date.]

9 years, 3 months ago

Nice! Regarding # 5, if we were to use look-alike actors, I would suggest Orlando Jones for TT :^)

Ron Prichard 9 years, 3 months ago

13] Justin Wesley - Keith Langford Priceless!

bjejayhawk69 9 years, 3 months ago

Eddie Murphy has to be Elijah. They are dead ringers for each other.

Joe Baker 9 years, 3 months ago

Cheech Marin as Townsend, now that's priceless.

wrwlumpy 9 years, 3 months ago

I thought that was Joe Dooley on Boardwalk Empire with his hair combed back in a flashy suit.

hawksfan08 9 years, 3 months ago

How can you possibly not have Travis played by T.I?

Ron Franklin 9 years, 3 months ago

Why did Bill Self put so much pressure on the kids for last Saturday's game? He was talking it up like it was the biggest game ever. I agree, it was. I think I would have taken a different approach--"it's just another game" even though it wasn't. But couldn't it have been a smarter approach to keep these guys even-keeled? Did he intentionally amp up the pressure to see what his kids were made of?

I just thought that was out of character for Self--usually he doesn't hype up a game like that, that I can recall. It worked out perfectly. And from a fan standpoint, I enjoyed it. But the 'tightness' definitely showed the first half.

Bill Self's consistent winning ways has cost him the COY this year. 2010 he was picked 5th in the league, and won it for the 7th in a row. So, in 2011, even with much less returning than the 2010 team had, the Jayhawks were picked to tie for first with A&M. Writers didn't want to pick against Self. Can you blame them? He made them look like idiots in 2010. But, realistically, this team should have been picked to finish 3-4 behind Baylor & Missouri. Mizzou afterall did return all of their starters from last year, and have a senior laden team and Baylor has a group of pros.

So, Bill will not be rightfully awarded the COY that he deserves. They will award it to a coach under an investigative probe, who didn't recruit one of the players to Mizzou, and is succeeding off of Mike Andersons players. Haith deserves props, but not COY.

Anthony Davis only has more blocks on T Rob from a statistical standpoint (his fg% is better too, but who cares). The way I look at it, I give Kentucky their average point-per possession for every extra possession he steals for UK by blocking. I compare that to the extra possessions provided by T Robs rebounds, and it's a wash. T Rob outscores, and out rebounds Davis. He is way more valuable to this team than Davis is, and he is the best player in the nation.

TRob will be robbed of the POY and that's a damn shame.


KU Homer!:)

Marcia Parsons 9 years, 3 months ago

Miles Simon is a Thomas advocate, and he made that point about all the double/triple team stuff that Thomas has to deal with while making more points than Davis. A group was discussing it on some ESPN show.

HawkKlaw 9 years, 3 months ago

I think he did hype the game to his players more. And I agree that's usually not his character. Maybe he was trying to simulate March Madness a little bit. Maybe it's his new approach to avoid getting upset early in the tourney. I'll trust Self's judgment (the guy knows how to win).

The media always hypes up KU vs. MU. Self mentioned that the team felt that pressure. Also, MU already beat us once this year, so us KU fans would go insane if we let MU beat us in their last appearance at AFH. Lastly, with a win in that game KU all but wrapped up sole possession of the Big 12 title. That's a lot of pressure.

But I'm glad he took that approach. It simulated what they'll be facing in March. And it doesn't hurt that KU got the "W".

I agree that Self will probably be robbed of COY. Like you said, KU is expected to be great every year. So the only time people take notice is if KU isn't great.

I don't necessarily think TRob will be snubbed. Obviously, statistically, TRob is much better than Anthony Davis. Davis changes the game defensively, but TRob affects every aspect of the game. He's on a much less talented squad than Davis (on paper), yet his team is top 5 in the nation - a feat that nobody predicted. If TRob doesn't win it, it will be a shame. I still have a little hope that he will win it though.

And even if he doesn't, we all know he deserves it. He's played one hell of a season to this point and KU would be nowhere without him.

Sally Presson 9 years, 3 months ago

Senior night is what it is "Senior" night, not Jr night. Would love to show Thomas how much we love him, but he's not staying with us and Tyshawn & Connor did when they were Juniors. I realize this is what's best for Thomas and I wish him the very best, he deserves the very best. But we have to give Tyshawn and Connor all we've got for staying with us. I hope Thomas realizes how much the fans love him and what he's done for KU basketball. he is an awesome young man and deserves the best!! Just so he knows--we're going to miss him, his talent and that beautiful smile, that melts the hearts of everyone. This team has worked extremely hard, and have proven what hard work does. they are so unselfish and have a deep concern for their teammates, you can not only see it but you feel it. This is a wonderful team and our coaches are the best in the world. Coach Self has got to be the Coach of the year!! there is absolutely no one like him!!

9 years, 3 months ago

Long but good read. This article can not bode well at all for Ben Howland.

One of many “wow” items in the piece:

“In a game during the 2007-08 season, several players on the bench noted Howland's frustration with the shot selection of Westbrook, whose freelancing had resulted in several baskets. But rather than substituting for him, Howland informed one of the officials that Westbrook was wearing socks bearing an NBA logo, which violated NCAA uniform guidelines. Howland told the official he had an obligation to remove Westbrook from the game because of his socks. The official claimed to be unaware of the rule and let play continue.”

I got a good chuckle out of this part discussing the UCLA '08-'09 class, particularly the comparison that was being made between J’mison Morgan and actual legends:

“Howland had never signed a group so talented and so widely expected to succeed. Holiday was called a more polished version of Westbrook; Gordon was touted as a better athlete than Love; Morgan was likened to former alltime great UCLA centers Lew Alcindor and Bill Walton.”

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Oops. Sorry, drgnslayr. I posted a similar message above, but a couple hours later than you. Hadn't reached your post before I posted it. Didn't mean to steal the fire from your post.

With the accusations flying around, we both know this could end Howland's role as UCLA's coach. If so, and as the coaching carousel has always proven, he'll find some college in need of a high profile coach.

And Weber at Illinois, Self's followup, hasn't faired well this season either. He's also on the hotseat.

We are soooo lucky to have Coach Self at KU.

dw3c 9 years, 3 months ago

I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I for one would love it if KU scheduled a game against Nebraska. Only for the simple reason that it would be hilarious listening to all the mizzou fans complain.

Brak 9 years, 3 months ago

Don't worry the methheads have already picked up on the rumor and are calling KU and HCBS hypocrites for wanting to play NU. Funny how they can't wait to get out of the Big12 but its killing them we won't play them, but I guess when the success/failure of your program is built around w/l vs KU I guess I can understand. Its pretty pathetic really.

coolhand357 9 years, 3 months ago

It's fairly simple really. We serouisly loathe MU on every level. Do we hate NU? ... Meh

Ron Prichard 9 years, 3 months ago

I heard this on the radio yesterday, but it bears repeating as one of the most amazing stats I have heard: Bill Self now has more league championships (8) than home losses (7).

There is really no way to actually comprehend how impressive that is. Absolutely amazing!

Congrats, Coach Self!! RCJH!!

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Self's home court record is unbelievable. It's something the TV commentators know about and respect, which is why they rarely fail to bring up the subject during a telecast.

It's one of the reasons:

Why the Jayhawks are so feared at home. (And away)

Why AFH is "Standing room only", at each and every game.

Why even non-regular season games are "Standing room only". (Such as the "Legends of the Phog" game, and including every preseason game.)

Why the decibel level reached a fever pitch (127) during the final Border War battle with MU. And why that war ended in victory.

Why the sign hangs at the South end of AFH, the one which warns all who enter to "Beware of the Phog". Be careful Bill, or someone's going to add your signature at the bottom of the sign. Or even, "Beware of Coach Self."

There's a statue of the inventor of the game, former KU coach Forrest "Phog" Allen, standing in front of KU's venerated fieldhouse, the fieldhouse named for him. Consider KU Coach Bill Self's homecourt record as a tribute to that man. He's doing a fantastic job representing KU and it's basketball traditions at the highest of levels.

Rock Chalk, Coach Bill Self. You make us all proud to say we're Jayhawks.

dw3c 9 years, 3 months ago

I would also consider his away record during conference play equally as impressive as the home record. KU will always be the biggest home game on any teams schedule and to have the success he has had on the road while taking everyone's best shot is just remarkable.

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Agree. KU's away game record is exceptional as well, not just against the conference teams, but against everyone.

Games versus KU are circled by every team. The target is always there, whether KU is ranked highly or not.

Home or away. KU must always take every team's best shot.

9 years, 3 months ago

Nice post, Aloha! One item of clarification, while James Naismith was the inventor of the game, former KU coach Forrest "Phog" Allen played for him and is often referred to as the “Father of Basketball Coaching.”

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Give me a gun so I can shot myself. I know Jayhawk history better than that. There's no excuse for a major blunder of that magnitude. I hang my head in shame. :>(

If I'm banned by my fellow posters from further posts on this board, I will understand completely.

Mahalo, txrockchalk, for correcting me so quickly.

Guess I better change my avatar as well.

9 years, 3 months ago

No human has ever been or ever will be perfect, Aloha! And whatever you do, leave the avatar intact - - she is quite easy on the eyes :^)

Tony Bandle 9 years, 3 months ago

The Stairway to Heaven:

...............................................National Championship.............................................

......................................Championship Game.........................................................

...............................Final Four................................................................................

.......................Elite Eight.......................................................................................


........Big 12 Tourney................................................................................................

Big 12 Title.............................................................................................................

JayDocMD 9 years, 3 months ago

I'm fine with eliminating the Big 12 tourney from the "stairway" - never have cared for it and almost always find myself hoping for an early exit so the kids are hungry and rested.

Plus this year I'd rather not play MU again - the last game against them was the perfect ending to that relationship.

danmoore 9 years, 3 months ago

Ditto! But we can't let mizwho win their last conference game ever. Someone has to take out the trash

Woody Cragg 9 years, 3 months ago

...Ah, those were the days, Jimmy Page, Boone's Farm, Friar Tuck & the Monks, crashin frat parties in Manhattan...Yeeeaaaah!

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

Sure it looks like it right now, but I don't know that I'd consider Howland an "average" coach. It'd be pretty hard to luck your way into 3 consecutive Final Fours. And his track record at Pitt was pretty impressive as well. it your position that he has regressed? If that is the case than I can buy that he is now an average coach.

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

Add Conner.

37 minutes.



12 points.

Would certainly have been an L without him.

JayDocMD 9 years, 3 months ago

I think he's a good X's and O's coach who gets blue chippers because he has the rep. that you can do whatever you want. (See Scott Drew, except w/o the x's and o's part.)

My takes from the UCLA article: 1. Howland's a D-bag: demeaning student managers and asst coaches. Apparently you're only someone if you're talented and "produce" 2. An alarming lack of discipline - blind eye to drug abuse, intentional physical harm to players and more. 3. A vacuum of player leadership. 4. Bill Self will never be accused of any of this.

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

I don't know that Howland would have, or it might have taken much longer, if it hadn't been for an article which appeared on only a week or two before Reeves was booted. I think it was posted by Dana O'Neil, calling Howland out if he didn't do something drastic about Reeves' brash and obtrusive behavior. As mentioned, it wasn't long afterwards before Reeves was gone.

Question is, would he have done so if he hadn't been pressured by O'Neil, who represents a highly regarded sports news outlet?

justinryman 9 years, 3 months ago

So when KU comes up to Omaha for the second and third round games, where will everyone be? I live just outside of Omaha and can't wait to watch the game with some of you guys!!!!

packywacky88 9 years, 3 months ago

I'm outside Omaha too. The alumni association has watch parties. In 2008, they had a pregame party at the convention center next to Qwest, and then showed the game on a big screen.

PurePierce 9 years, 3 months ago

Let's invite Thomas back next year. If not on Senior night, then somewhere around it.

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

When the NBA breaks for the All Star game, if TRob isn't playing in it, he could come come back then.

If he came back on senior night he could, hopefully, congratulate them on a 9th straight Big 12 championship.

Kelly Knott 9 years, 3 months ago

The border war games in basketball have literally been the closest mizzou has ever experienced to that of a National Championship game! As a member of the Big-XII mizzou was guaranteed at least 2 opportunities each season to play a perennial power in KU. The Jayhawks continue to maintain their status as a National Championship contender year after year after year... Of course mizzou wants to continue to have the opportunity to play the Jayhawks, KU represents the standard by which mizzou has always measured their worth!! KU doesn't need you, never has and never will. Your choice to run to the SEC,,, Your new border war is with Arkansas. Cheers!! RCJH!!!

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

Since the Howland article has got everybody buzzing, I thought it might be fun to speculate on who might be next in line should Ben get the axe. No names jumped out at me right away.

The two candidates that eventually came to mind were Brad Stevens of Butler and Greg Marshall of Wichita State. But plucking a coach from the mid-major ranks carries some risk. Can they recruit in a BCS conference? Can they compete week-in, week-out in a BCS conference? The recruiting aspect is particularly relevant to UCLA, as they are at a disadvantage being out west, and in a pretty scrubby Pac-10 conference that hasn't shown a lot of signs of pulling out of their funk.

If UCLA were to not go the mid-major route, another path is to grab a coach at the next tier down. Mike Brey from Notre Dame was a name that I could see them making a run at. Buzz Williams from Marquette is another.

The last option is to choose an assistant coach from someone else's team. This carries a lot of risks too, as elite level programs generally like to see how someone runs their own program before giving them such a high profile gig. I do not know any of assistant coaches around the country that are considered hot commodities for head coaching jobs.

It's a tough task UCLA could eventually be facing. We've seen good coaches flounder under the pressure of such jobs (see Billy Gillispie). Anyway...thoughts?

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Heaven forbid, but the best assistant coach would be Danny Manning. However, with his ties to KU, it's hard to see him taking a coaching position at UCLA. It's selfish on my part, but if any team offers, please don't go, Danny!

If Howland does bite the dust, I agree that Marshall or Stevens would have to be considered.

Or they could always hire back Lavin from the Johnnies. He now has good recruiting ties to the East Coast and New York. :-?

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

Ralster - First reaction to Greg Marshall at WSU? It's only a matter of time before he climbs the coaching ladder. Maybe not to an elite school like UCLA, but if I were Illinois I'd be taking a run at him.

Secondly, pretty much any coach that can be had is going to have some flaw. If they didn't, they'd already have the better job. I say this in regards to Stevens. I wouldn't want him at KU, but right now we're a far better job than rebuilding UCLA. Stevens had back-to-back national runner-ups the last two years. You ask where is Butler now? Well, with the exception of Self it seems that everyone has down years. And they're having an OK year. I think if you put that guy in a BCS school with some resources he'd be able to recruit and replenish the ranks much faster.

I did overlook Jay Wright, probably because they're having such a down year. He might be a good fit for UCLA. Not so sure I overlooked Tom Crean; I just don't think he belongs in that upper-echelon., maybe, I guess. Grant? No way. He'd have to either improve Alabama beyond where he has them now, or take another stepping stone job before making the jump to a program like UCLA. I also agree that Gillispie should and will get another shot at someplace better than Tech, I just don't think he'll ever get a blue-blood job again. And there's no shame in that. There's only a small handful of those jobs and an equally small handful of coaches who can adequately fill them.

As for your "if Self retired tomorrow" hypothetical - I say it's Danny. Turgeon? I think we've seen him plateau. I don't think he's going to ever be much better than he is now. I've already said I don't think Crean is at that level. Haase? Any concerns you have about Danny not being ready surely apply to Jerrod. Boyle? I need to see more. I need to see him take Colorado to the NCAA tournament at least before thinking he could handle this job. I think you give Danny the reigns, try and keep Dooley & Townsend, and maybe go try and get Norm Roberts to join the bench as an assistant. Roberts would definitely help with the recruiting aspect of things.

I would never feel the same about KU basketball if they hired Calipari. I don't think he'd leave Kensucky for KU, but even if he would...I wouldn't want him.

Anyway, I loved reading your post and hearing your thoughts on the matter.

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

ralster - I never knew you were a fellow Wichitan. Pretty sweet. As for the Shockers, they do have a really good team, and Marshall is a really good coach, but sometimes being a KU fan living here it's hard to put up with them! They have a serious inferiority complex when it comes to KU! Which...they should. Not many schools come close to our tradition or level of excellence. Which is why I try and tell all my Shocker friends to not compare themselves to KU. But everytime they think they might have a shot at beating us they come out of the woodwork with the "KU is scared to play us" rhetoric. And I've told this story on here before, but what really did it for me was a few years back they were off to a great start, undefeated heading into January I think, and climbed above us in the rankings a few spots (they were number 7 I think, we might have been 9 or 10), and they printed up shirts with the poll on the back with both themselves and KU highlighted on the shirt (bold & in larger print), as if to say "ha! we're better than you!" After that...I was just done with Shocker fans!


If Donovan does have an asterisk, it is VERY faint. He did take a different group of players to the championship game in '00, and he was in the elite 8 last year. He doesn't have as good a regular season/conference record as does Self, and like Self his teams have had a few early exits (6 times bowing out in the first or second round, out of 11 appearances). And now he's got Calipari to contend with in the SEC. Self has never really had a worthy adversary in the Big 12. One other thing that I wonder about Donovan, is if all the waffling he did after they won their second championship might have hurt his recruiting, at least momentarily. Flirting with the UK job, taking the Orlando Magic job and then backing out. Must be a Florida thing (ahem, Urban Meyer). But he's another guy that maybe UCLA might make some overtures to.

I took no disrespect to my Brad Stevens offering, and I'm not saying by any means that he is a lock to be a great coach. I wonder if he might have overstayed his tenure at Butler, not striking while the iron was hot. Maybe there weren't any attractive openings at the time, I don't really remember. Or maybe he's like Mark Few, and just content to stay under the radar.

Through discussion the one thing that is clear to me is that UCLA will be in a tough spot trying to replace Howland, if/when that becomes their reality. I'm sure this would be true of any blue-blood program. UK misfired on Gillispie (and if you ask their fans with Tubby Smith as well), but finally found "their guy" in Calipari. UNC had success with Guthridge and briefly with Doherty before he flamed out and they poached Roy from us. Indiana has had all sorts of problems and are just now turning the corner with Crean. KU is very fortunate to have landed Self. Couldn't be happier with any other coach!

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

Not that this is a set-in-stone indicator as to how it will turn out, but the ESPN hype-machine has finally completed their task, as Anthony Davis now is in first place in their bi-weekly straw poll for POY.

What anyone else says won't make me think any less of TRob, not ESPN, and not any award. He is, in my mind, the best player in the country. I do have concerns that TRob may be trying too hard to win this award. We've heard HCBS say as much. My hope is that he simply lets the game come to him, and the rest will work itself out however it's going to work out.

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Unfortunate, but there's still a regular season game to play. And anything can happen.

At least Jason King hasn't surrendered yet. In his own byline, on the NCAA BB page of he hypes TRob for the Wooden award. And, he cites TT's stats during conference play as deserving mention for nomination for Wooden Award.

BCRavenJHawkfan 9 years, 3 months ago

TRob just needs to be at peace should Davis get the POY honor and bask in the limelight of the NCAA tournament MOP award and "One Shinning Moment".

BCRavenJHawkfan 9 years, 3 months ago

Interesting UCLA article.

Someone please refresh our memories. KU played UCLA last year (2010 - 2011), a December game that KU won by one point on a controversial call. Did that game have some scrums with these UCLA thugs? I thought there may have been a technical called against one of the Morris twins in that game??????

9 years, 3 months ago

Here are links to articles discussing the controversial call:

I don’t recall any scrums, but seem to remember UCLA was on the receiving end of some questionable no-calls. Honeycutt and Smith lit us up pretty good that game. The box score indicates no technical fouls were assessed, however Markieff fouled out of the game:

nb4ku 9 years, 3 months ago

CBS has moved us to a #1 seed. Better yet, they have Methouri as a #2 in Kentucky's bracket.

Sam Constance 9 years, 3 months ago

I too feel that Davis is going to steal the POY award out from under Robinson's much more deserving nose. This is because ESPN, who controls far too much sports coverage for their own good, has a brain trust of college basketball analysts who tend to shy away from the "obvious", instead preferring to manufacture stories by presenting the less-considered take on a given issue, even when that less-considered take is "less-considered" because it's WRONG.

This is what has happened (or is happening) with Anthony Davis v. Thomas Robinson.

In most years, a player like Thomas Robinson--upperclassman who is the clear-cut leader (in terms of play) on his team, the focus of every opponent, leading the country (I think) in double-doubles, and one of a short list of players who is averaging a double-double--would be the overwhelmingly clear choice. But this year, somehow a player who is the 5th-most utilized player ON HIS OWN TEAM and has stats nearly identical to Jarvis Varnado from 2010 (who? you ask... exactly) has come on strong because suddenly Anthony Davis is single-handedly responsible for Kentucky's great team defense. Or at least that's what the raving lunatics on College GameDay would have you believe. I think I'm most disappointed in Jay Bilas, who has a rep for measured, objective analysis.

Luckily, our friend Ken Pomeroy, who has traditionally focused his advanced statistical eye on the metrics of teams, has begun tracking potential NPOYs in a similar way and his rankings show Robinson as the clear frontrunner, and have shown him there since they rankings were published on his site.

For those of you who don't pay to access the deep content on the site, here is the statistical rankings for NPOY (according to Pomeroy) as of Wednesday, 2/29:

1) .548 - Thomas Robinson, Kansas 2) .537 - Draymond Green, Michigan St. 3) .474 - Jared Sullinger, Ohio St. 4) .463 - Anthony Davis, Kentucky 5) .447 - Mike Scott, Virginia 6) .424 - Will Barton, Memphis 7) .408 - Jordan Taylor, Wisconsin 8) .381 - Tyler Zeller, North Carolina 9) .366 - Cody Zeller, Indiana 10) .359 -Jae Crowder, Marquette

(to be concluded...)

Sam Constance 9 years, 3 months ago


As you can see, Robinson is not only in the lead, but Anthony Davis is sitting at 4th, and a solid .085 points behind, making him closer to 8th place Tyler Zeller than 1st place.

Unfortunately, Pomeroy doesn't release his actual formula, so there is no ability to dissect the data and make our own assumptions or criticisms. However, he does explain that he attempts to capture a player's offensive and defensive value to his team and in relation to how often he is used by his team and relative to the team's improvement and opponent difficulty.

For a bit more background on these numbers:

The top five guys have been in these rankings (though maybe not at their current slot) consistently for most of the season.

The bottom five slots have fluctuated a great deal--for example, Tyshawn Taylor was sitting at 9th about a week ago.

Robinson's score has stayed right around the .550 mark for most of the season.

Anthony Davis' score has been a bit more volatile, fluctuating between .440 and .460

The final scores for last year's POY showed Sullinger as the winner, with a score of .521 (just to give you some perspective on where Robinson's numbers rank with past history)

Of course, we all know Jimmer Fredette won the award last year. He finished 3rd in Pomeroy's POY scores with .487 (just to give you some perspective on how the voters are influenced by things having noting to do with a player's actual production)

And because I can't mention the Anthony Davis/Jarvis Varnado corellary without providing the actual numbers, here they are:

POINTS Jarvis Varnado (JV) - 13.8 Anthony Davis (AD) - 14.3

REBOUNDS JV - 10.3 AD - 9.8

BLOCKS JV - 4.7 AD - 4.8

ASSISTS JV - 0.9 AD - 0.9

STEALS JV - 0.7 AD - 1.5

TURNOVERS JV - 2.0 AD - 0.9

FG% JV - .582 AD - .658

I don't know about you, but I don't remember anyone even MENTIONING Varnado as a viable POY option in 2010. Yet, now we have a guy putting up very comparable numbers, on a team where he can benefit from playing off of 4 other NBA-likely players, being touted as the front-runner by some on ESPN, and a neck-and-neck tie with Robinson at worst.

It makes me angry. So angry, in fact, that I sent an email to Mr. Jay Bilas--who I believe is the one who turned the key in the ignition on the "ADPOY" bandwagon bus--with all the data and information that I've just provided here. I would encourage fellow Jayhawk fans who know that POY is rightfully Thomas Robinson's to do the same or similar. Let's be satisfied with the fact that, even if we can't convince the ESPN talking heads to see reason with numbers and data, that we will flood their inboxes with data in the attempt. We are Kansas, and we don't suffer injustice to one of our own lightly.

[steps down from soapbox]

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Very logical oration, with well researched supporting data to back up your claims. You sound like someone who is used to discussing controversial subjects and winning in those debates. For obvious reasons, I hope you prevail this time around.

From the fact that you sent Bilas an email, which frequently happens when the public refuses to accept poor representation, and your last "soapbox" add-on, I'd guess you to be a politician. Or at least one at heart. :>)

Sam Constance 9 years, 3 months ago

Maybe at heart. My dad was a grassroots politician in Lawrence.

I'm no politician, but I some of the traits you might want in one. And when I come across an issue about which I care a great deal, I can get a little bit single-minded in my focus.

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago


  1. That was a great bit of data mining.

  2. That was clearly written.

  3. That was a case well made.

  4. Bilas has a lawyer's mind and so would normally be drawn to logic backed by facts.

  5. Even if he does not agree, it should make him flesh out his argument, so we can decide it on its merits, also.

  6. If Jay doesn't respond, someone in the media-gaming complex has gotten to him.

  7. I believe he will respond.

Sam Constance 9 years, 3 months ago

I was with you on point #7 as well, but I haven't heard anything. We'll see, and I'll certainly share with my brethren if and when I hear back.

If Anthony Davis has a few more "ho-hum" games where he fails to hit double-digits in points or rebounds and only records two blocks (like this week against Georgia), maybe the debate will be decided for us and Mr. Robinson will remain TRob instead of TRobbed.

dogbones 9 years, 3 months ago

You should shoot an email to Jason King as well. He seems to be one of the more rational writers at ESPN and has had Robinson ahead of Davis for most of his voting. Maybe he could through some more information out there that may convince a few of the other voters. Wishful thinking perhaps, but couldn't hurt.

I still haven't seen a head to head comparison of their numbers against quality opponents. Seems like the SEC is down this year which could inflate Davis's numbers.

Sam Constance 9 years, 3 months ago

Actually, the opponents factor is probably part of why the Pomeroy rankings have Davis in the lead.

He talks about attempting to incorporate opponent difficulty into his formula.

Sandeep Kalburgie 9 years, 3 months ago

Seems like KU is gaining steam in the recruitment of JaKarr Sampson. If Jakarr commits to KU, then our chances with Shabazz may spiral downwards :(. Thoughts?

nb4ku 9 years, 3 months ago

It will be interesting to see how the scholarships work themselves out, considering there won't be enough if they land either one of the two.

JJHAWK 9 years, 3 months ago

One scholarship blowing in the wind at the moment is J Withy. Some sources (very unofficial) are saying he has played his way into being a late 1st rounder. If that's true, does he go?

Plus we have had players (mutually) decide to transfer before. I'm sure Coach Self is watching all these things as close as possible.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 3 months ago

A Jakarr in the hand is better than two Shabazzes in the bush!!

Shabazz in a one and gone.....Jakarr may stick around for awhile. If we could get Jakaar and Tony Parker, I would be ecstatic!!!

Also, Anrio Adams is trending upwards big time and may be the steal of the year for Kansas!! Best player in the entire state of Oregon, not ranked based on waiting for which that he is out!!

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Anrio Adams is projected by to jump into their top 150. Curious to see where they rank him in their last evaluation.

Next season's team portends to be speed, speed, and more speed.

We already know how fast Johnson, Releford, Young and Wesley are. And Withey, despite being a 7 footer, has shown good speed down the court. Tharpe hasn't had a lot of court time but appears to have a high gear when needed.

Not sure how quick Lucas is. But Peters will most likely be the least fastest of the 2012 class, and he did fine as an end on the high school gridiron. Adams is supposed to be fast as a jet. White has a body similar to TT, which could be another rocketman to the hoop. Ellis wouldn't be three time Gatorade POY in Kansas if he wasn't quick on his feet. And if he comes to KU, Sampson has demonstrated speed in the Utubes I've seen of him.

McLemore might be as fast as Adams. Traylor will have had a year to gear up speed under Self and Manning.

The Jayhawk future appears bright next season.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 3 months ago

2012-2013; Johnson, Withey, Releford, Traylor, McLemore, Young, Wesley, Tharpe, Lindsay, Ellis, White, Peters, Adams, Lucas, Sampson, Shabazz, Parker.

Thats 17 current, future and possible Hawks.

How do we get down to 13?

Wesley gets covered again by Keith. Lindsay will probably transfer. Out of Sampson, Shabazz and Parker, we only get one.

2013-2014: Johnson, Withey, Releford, Young all leave...Frankamp and Greene arrive and Wesley gets one back and we still have one to give....and we are really, really, really young!!

Joe Baker 9 years, 3 months ago

You're right about Wesley +1 Lindsay about right +1 Tharpe may be a possible transfer +1 Adams not definite, test scores not known +1

We could get both Sampson/Shabaaz or Parker/Shabaaz.

My math shows we could have 12-13. It really depends on Adams' test scores and Tharpe's development. Once EJ leaves, I see Greene as the pg. Self will do some redshirting, maybe Tharpe.

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Frankamp is listed as a PG, and Greene as a SG, although their roles could reverse while they're on the court. Both are supposed to be spot on 3 point shooters, similar to what MU has had this season. But they are another season away: 2013 - 2014.

As for the coming season: 2012 - 2013:

Anrio Adams: With Rivals re-establihing his 2012 status, it sounds like he has his grades/qualifications under control. Hope so.

Wesley off scholarship for 2012 - 2013 season: If or when KU needs to free up a scholarship, Keith Langford will cover Wesley's tuition, expenses, Etc.

Lindsey: IMHO, he is sitting on a razor's edge at the moment. If another recruit chooses KU, his scholarship is gone.

Tharpe: The big question, in my mind, is Tharpe's status come next season. KU needs a backup PG. He wouldn't need to score big. Just be a good assist man. What a true PG is supposed to be. If he can get up to Self's expectations on defense and not turn the ball over as much, he should fill that role. Big ifs. That, and what role Anrio Adams would fill - PG or SG?

2012 - 2013: Definite starters of those who are already committed - Unless injured: Johnson, Releford and Withey.

Most likely starters: McLemore and Ellis, although Young or Taylor might start till Ellis has Self's x's & o's well in hand.

First off the bench is wide open after the above seven: Perhaps - White, then Tharpe, Peters, Adams, Wesley - depending on the opposition's height or speed. (Barring foul trouble or injuries)

Red shirt: Lucas, (And Peters - if Parker or Sampson were to sign up)

That leaves one scholarship in the air: Lindsey, or an as yet unsigned recruit.

And then there's Tharpe's, if he can't get up to speed.

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

~Adams is a pre-shirt, i.e., he sits out next year as Traylor and BenMac have this season. 17-1=16

~Naadir and Merv redshirt. 16-2=14

~We get one of Sampson, Shabazz, and Parker. 14-2+1=13


Vernon Riggs 9 years, 3 months ago

Redshirts count toward the 13 scholarship limit.

Jason Wilson 9 years, 3 months ago

I know this is somewhat off-topic, but I went back and looked at KenPom's conference champion predictions (they were done the week before the conference season STARTED)

Big 12: 1) Kansas (33.1% chance of winning conf) 2) Missouri (32.6% chance of winning conf) 3) Baylor 4) Texas 5) Kansas State

The top 5 are exactly right aside from Iowa St. switched spots with Texas. Keep in mind this is when Kansas was 8-3 and ranked #18, Mizzou was 12-0 and ranked #8, and Baylor was 13-0 and ranked #7.

Sometimes its amazing how good the advanced statistics are at predicting future performance.

KansasComet 9 years, 3 months ago

So, this is what a rebuilding year feels like? Wow! Go Jayhawks!

JJHAWK 9 years, 3 months ago

It was a rebuilding year. Didn't you see all the construction outside Allen Fieldhouse?

JD Roth 9 years, 3 months ago

You know, all you Jayhawk fans should really get off of Jack Harry's back. He was ready to cry complaining about you and mentioning!! He's sorry he picked against your Jayhawks!! He'll never do it again. He can't believe you can be so cruel to insult his family and other elements of his life just because he mouthed off on Jack's Smack. That's ok, Kietzman kissed his derriere and massaged his ego this afternoon. Maybe he learned his lesson about who rules the Big XII Conference.

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

He's a douche sportscaster for NBC action news out of Kansas City. I think he picked KU to finish 5th this year in the Big 12. What's worse was the way he goes about it, all blustery and acting like he's lecturing the fan base. Couldn't find the exact article where he originally made this prediction, but here's a link to something fairly recent (in it he also reveals his MU allegiance):

Mike Kendall 9 years, 3 months ago


Thanks for the link. I think I have seen him before but the guy is giving a lecture to Jayhawk Nation. I kind of chuckled a couple times in the 1:51 that he spoke.

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

Thanks...what a tool! So glad I don't live in KC and have to hear that idiot's babble

danmoore 9 years, 3 months ago

I love it! And he said it was such conviction. If I was his employer I think I would be forced to terminate him for making such as a$$ of himself.

Sam Constance 9 years, 3 months ago

I don't remember seeing any insults towards his family on this site. So while I can't say that there were no such comments, having not read every post on the site, it doesn't seem like something that could have been very pervasive.

REHawk 9 years, 3 months ago

If Bill Self should be inclined to give Doc's Huskers a game or two somewhere other than Lincoln in the next decade, I can live with that. Though, generally speaking, I'd prefer that the Jayhawks turn a cold shoulder to all 4 defecting Big 12 teams. Is a shame that Thad Boyle got caught up in the CU defection. If he stays at Colorado and continues to develop winning teams, I would not object to a home game with the Buffs, merely because a former Jayhawk is at the helm. But Mizzou: Bye-bye forever! Never again in Lawrence or Columbia. If the Powers What Be have to negotiate a future deal, schedule it at a neutral site with Kansas drawing 60% of the money.

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

Just take this post and put it on the back of every recruiting letter that goes out.

This is it in a nutshell.

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Just something to think about:

What with the controversy over the end of the Border War between KU vs Mizzery.

And with the media clamoring to have the rivalry continue (despite KU's determination not to).

I can see the NCAA committee forcing the issue and, somehow, attempting another game between the two schools. They'll see it as a money making opportunity, (They'll sell loads of tickets), and it would be a great way to advertise their ultimate product - the NCAA tournament.

In previous tourneys they've gone so far as to purposely place mid-major teams with similarities to KU's former losses in the Big Dance (ie. Schools starting with the letter "B", Etc.) in the same brackets against the Jayhawks. You watch. They'll place a "V" and/or a "B" team in KU's bracket this year.

Any bets that KU and MU will be in the same bracket, maybe as #1 and #2 seeds in the Midwest region?

Guess that everyone will have to wait and see. If we have to play MU again this season I'd rather it was before MU could reach the Final Four.

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

I bet the NCAA seeding committee will do that every year possible - put KU in the same bracket as MU - with the exception of this year. Since they've played each other twice already, and since they are still in the same conference until the year is out, the NCAA generally tries to avoid putting school from the same conference in the same region, at least in terms of high seeds. Obviously this can't be avoided in years the Big East gets 8 or 9 teams in, but they spread them out as best they can.

The committee always likes to do things like that it thinks are cute, even though they deny it. Something I'm suspecting they might possibly do this year is put KU and Wichita State in each other's paths.

Vernon Riggs 9 years, 3 months ago

I want Wichita State in NOLA. Then we play 'Cuse in the Final. We win the Championship and erase two of the worst loses that I remember ever happening in New Orleans.

Hank Cross 9 years, 3 months ago

As JayHok pointed out below - there is 0 reason for Self to throw MU a lifeline and let them back into the KC market. The rivalry is dead for the foreseable future unless - Gag...gag...barf...barf ...someway, somehow, thru a wrinkle in the space-time fabric - MU gets over KU in the FF. Then demand for a rematch might be too great to resist. Of course MU will never make it to the FF, so there is nothing to worry about.

JayHok 9 years, 3 months ago

Seems to be more of a problem with a Carolina or Duke and their booster. He took the visits to those two schools as a gift from the booster. The other visits he took were paid for by the schools. This would be interesting to hear what Duke or UNC has to say.

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

KU gets a lot of sloppy seconds, when the schools with the "inside tracks" get exposed for what they are doing.

Xavier. Josh.

Shabazz could be another.

But Shabazz better be ready for playing anything but his natural position, if he comes.

Self made it clear with Selby.

No one is above being played out of position.

Shabazz, meet Andrea Hudy and Danny Manning. :-)

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

The best quote in the entire story was by Tyshawn about Jamari: "[He] is a beast from Chicago."

That ought to be the title of a flipping horror flick.

"The Beast from Chicago."

I can hardly wait to see Jamari rebound and defend. He looks like he wants a piece of someone just sitting in street clothes.

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

Is it just me, or has this team gotten better since its been practicing against BenMac and Traylor?

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

Tyshawn is now a great player. I believed he would become a 40% triacetate, and I always knew he was paranormally fast, but I did not adequately forecast how much harder he would become to guard with a 40% trey.

If I were an NBA GM, I would take him in the lottery; that's how far I think he has come.

To put this in perspective, neither Rose, nor Wall, are fast enough to stop his penetration.

jaybate 9 years, 3 months ago

"News Updates on Departees, Plus Some Spreads from jaybate's Gentleman's Wager Betting Line"

~Tad Boyle's got CU 19-9 and 5th in the Pac 12, even after losing his two top guards last season. Boyle is going to make it.

~Doc Sadler 12-15 and 11th of 12 in the Big Ten. Doc is finding life harsh in Big Ten country. Thank the albino AD and Warren "No Super Corridor right of way, then no tar sands pipeline" Buffet, Doc.

~MU's forecasted football finish in the SEC? 10th. Forecasted basketball finish? 6th.

~TAM's forecasted football finish in the SEC? 6th. Forecasted basketball finish? 7th.

~jaybate's gentleman's wager betting line on how much longer it will be before UK has to forfeit a season? Two years.

~chances of Calhoun coming back to UConn unless recruiting improprieties go away and hell freezes over: 1 in 1 Billion.

~chances Bill Self will offer Deandre Whatever-the Flip-His-Name-Was a transfer to escape Traumnovelle d'Calhoun: 1 in 1 Trillion.

~chances a significant number of games in D1 are not being fixed: 1 in 2.

~chances Murray Sperber was wrong about college athletic departments being the tail that wags the university dog: 1 in 2.

~chances Texas will not muscle TRob: 1 in 1.

~chances Bob Knight will soon be found to have some form of early onset dementia: 1 in 3.

~chances Dick Vitale will say something sensible: Zero.

(Note: All fiction, except about Tad and Doc. No malice in any case.)

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

I think Ellis remains in the post his freshman year. He'll learn in practice to play the 3, but remember the hybrid 3/4s rarely play the 3 as freshman (Julian, McMorris). The speed of polished 3 men at the next level takes some adjusting for players in the hybrid mold. Not coincidentally, the banging and muscling by polished 4 men takes some adjusting for most freshman post players (both Morris Twins). Also, asking any freshman, even one as smart and savvy as Ellis appears to be, to learn two positions his freshman year...not something we're likely to see given the amount of depth we have.

I say this to point out where White might fit in. I believe that he will sub in both for Travis & BMac. Most likely that means he is exclusively at the 3 and when he subs in for BMac Travis slides down to the 2 (again give the kid time to master one position before learning two). Also, amidst all this depth something that seems to be lacking next year is reliable 3-point shooting. That was the case this year as well, and fortunately Tyshawn has stepped up (thank you!). Maybe next year EJ's shot improves. Or Travis's. But heading in, it's a question mark. BMac is supposed to be a good outside shooter, but you need more than one and can't ever have too many, and from what I've seen from White he is even better.

As for Peters, he'll be in a dogfight to see minutes. Typically we only see 3 post players with consistent minutes. Assuming Withey is still around (which I'm fairly certain he will be), I imagine Ellis takes another of those 3 spots. I'm curious how good Traylor really is, but if he's anything like Tyshawn has advertised it'll be hard to keep him off the floor. And like you say we'll have KY, who is getting better. At the very least, he'd have to overtake one of Ellis, Traylor, or KY to become just the 4th big. I do think the 4th big will see some more playing time than usual, as Withey seems to not be a 30+ minute workhorse, and foul trouble is sure to occur with the other players' inexperience. There's also Landen Lucas to consider. The wise decision for both Lucas and Peters might be to redshirt. At least one of them needs to. If they both do, we have four guys in front of them and Justin Wesley for insurance. They sit a year, and the following year Withey & KY are gone, and Ellis is possibly going to start seeing minutes at the 3. Of course, if Sampson or Parker come...whoa! Talk about a logjam!

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Having sat in the crowd and witnessed KU's win over MU, Parker or Sampson would probably have declared for KU already, except they have to be concerned about the "logjam"as you call it in the paint.

If Withey hadn't shown those flashes of "mean and hungry" over those 5 or so games, there would have been a much larger hole which needed to filled in next season's paint. But now, Withey is the man, and is perceived as a 99% guaranteed starter. Any other center/PF recruit coming in will have to battle against Ellis, Traylor, Peters, Young, Lucas and Wesley for minutes.

Any way you look at it, Lucas and/or Peters will have to red shirt.

Vernon Riggs 9 years, 3 months ago

If any other recruits come in, someone will have to go - - Merv? Rio?

REHawk 9 years, 3 months ago

2012-2013 Jayhawks. Drooly Dick V., whaddaya say?

Hank Cross 9 years, 3 months ago

Playing NU makes less sense than playing MU. Complete waste of time with no recruting or national interest. KU would be better off scheduling University of Central Florida or San Jose State. I didn't miss NU at all on the schedule.

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

You're right, except it would be an awesome slap in the face at Misery. That's always a good thing :)

JayHok 9 years, 3 months ago

The only reason Self would ever play Mizzou is if he feels like helping them. Mizzou by playing Kansas every year and Kentucky twice a year would be well on their way to a top 10 RPI schedule every year.

They are so desperate to keep Kansas on their schedule. Why help them after they almost exploded our conference? If somehow they got Self to agree it would be a major chance for national recognition for them---they'll get swallowed up in the SEC nationally. Why would Self help them with their market. Why would Self help them with KC. Why would Self give them the keys to KC. By leaving Self and Self's conference---almost blowing it up by starting this gossip thing 2 years ago---they said a lot.

Now they're desperate. Put a team with some tradition on the schedule for a yearly contest not these dingdongs.

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

This article generated an unusually large number of posts, which covered a wide variety of arguments/discussions, a number of which weren't directly related to the headline. Moreso than usual, it seemed that posters added new subtopics to those already posted, which led to other related topics and discussions. The only overall tie-in being KU BBall.

There are numerous occasions, during that slow, deadzone time, after the BBall season ends and school starts up again in the fall, when I have wanted to post a message about something I've read or heard relating to recruiting, the conference, coaches or players, Etc. Unfortunately the only available space is an article, usually posted days before, which is past the discussion mode, and therefore, adding a newer post will probably be missed by most everyone.

May I make a suggestion to the LJW?

Why not create a Monday thru Friday open forum (during that deadzone time period) for the regulars to check daily and post messages they feel are important to us regular posters? Something like an editorial page in the newspapers. It wouldn't require a full blown written article. Perhaps just a few tidbits thrown out to bait the posters. (Oops. I almost said to Jaybate the posters into a full blown discussion.) Just having an option available to post on would be appreciated.

Any thoughts from other posters on that type of forum? Or am I just blowing hot air?

nb4ku 9 years, 3 months ago

I agree 100%. It's hard to go back through all the previous day's article's to catch anything new posted. I enjoy reading everyone's(well, KU fans anyways)thought's on the boards and hate to miss anything.

Kye Clark 9 years, 3 months ago

I'd be down with that kind of format. One thing that we as fans could do is just create blogs on whatever topic that springs to mind. I could have posted my "who would be UCLA's new coach if they fire Howland" as a blog, and just have people interested checking in there. I know I tend to overlook the blogs, occasionally checking in on Jaybate's "Paintography" blogs. However, I don't think it would take much to get used to looking there during this "deadzone" period if enough of the regulars committed to it. Of course, during the summer I become so much less of a regular anyway; only so many times I can read someone's potential starting line-up and sub rotation (as this seems to be about 1 out of every 4 posts during the off-season).

Hank Cross 9 years, 3 months ago

There is no deadzone. KU sports has three seasons - FB, BB and realignment.

Jason Wilson 9 years, 3 months ago

So are McLemore and Traylor using a year of eligibility this year or will they be considered freshman next year?

Vernon Riggs 9 years, 3 months ago

They will be using their first year of eligibility in 2012-13. You have five years to use four years of eligibilty. Medical redshirts requests can ask to extend that time period.

nb4ku 9 years, 3 months ago

CBS still has Robinson at #1 for POY. There is a place to vote at the bottom. I know it doesn't matter, but I still don't like seeing TRob behind him in any poll. Go Vote!!

Alohahawk 9 years, 3 months ago

Wow!!! I just voted, again. TRob is leading with 45%, to 42% for Davis.

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